Author Topic: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)  (Read 33929 times)

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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #105 on: May 14, 2010, 05:55:59 PM »
SW's music is the complete antithesis of what DT does.

How? Granted, they're different, but they're still very much under the same tent. Probably more so than a lot of the fanbase on both sides is willing to admit. I'd speculate it has something to do with a lot of PT fans being ex DT addicts.

Offline ZBomber

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #106 on: May 14, 2010, 05:57:19 PM »
DT is linked on PT's site... pretty sure the two bands (and more specifically Steve and Mike) are on good terms with each other. I know Wilson and Rudess are.

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #107 on: May 14, 2010, 06:40:10 PM »
SW's music is the complete antithesis of what DT does.

How? Granted, they're different, but they're still very much under the same tent.
???  They aren't in the same circus.  I agree with rumby.
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Offline Gorille85

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #108 on: May 14, 2010, 06:59:37 PM »
SW's music is the complete antithesis of what DT does.

How? Granted, they're different, but they're still very much under the same tent.
???  They aren't in the same circus.  I agree with rumby.

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #109 on: May 14, 2010, 07:21:48 PM »
Dream Theater and Porcupine Tree are not under the same tent.
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Offline reneranucci

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #110 on: May 14, 2010, 07:55:21 PM »
But if SW wants to do something completely different to PT, why not bringing something with a different musical perspective? I think that was what people were thinking when they said that bringing MP would make more sense than bringing Gavin Harrison. Of course, it can be the case that SW is not interested in Dtīs approach to music, but I think Mike is a really versatile guy (as his taste for music and side projects show) so he can definitely bring something new to the table.

I donīt really care, but I think MPīs side projects have been awesome, so if he does another one, Iīll be happy.

And very nice post PC. I donīt take for granted that SW or MA have better ideas than MP. Especially Mikael, if there is someone who sticks to a formula, I think thatīs him. But thatīs just my opinion.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #111 on: May 14, 2010, 08:07:47 PM »
SW's music is the complete antithesis of what DT does.

How? Granted, they're different, but they're still very much under the same tent.
???  They aren't in the same circus.  I agree with rumby.

I think they are.  They both do prog, granted different styles, and there's a huuuuge overlap in the fanbase.  My generation is used to having new made-up genres for every band that sounds a little bit different than another, but if bands like Yes, Emerson Lake and Palmer, and Pink Floyd could fit under the same tent in the 70s I see no reason why Dream Theater and Porcupine Tree can't. Let alone any notions of PT being the "antithesis." I know SW has some weird insecurity about "being too prog," which seems to be the opposite of Dream Theater's approach, but it seems to be mainly people who like progressive music that buy Porcupine Tree albums.

But if SW wants to do something completely different to PT, why not bringing something with a different musical perspective? I think that was what people were thinking when they said that bringing MP would make more sense than bringing Gavin Harrison. Of course, it can be the case that SW is not interested in Dtīs approach to music, but I think Mike is a really versatile guy (as his taste for music and side projects show) so he can definitely bring something new to the table.

I donīt really care, but I think MPīs side projects have been awesome, so if he does another one, Iīll be happy.

And very nice post PC. I donīt take for granted that SW or MA have better ideas than MP. Especially Mikael, if there is someone who sticks to a formula, I think thatīs him. But thatīs just my opinion.

Yeah, I agree on all points basically. PT, DT, and Opeth seem to have a pretty large shared fan community, and it'd be cool to see these three guys (who, collectively, cover everything progressive music has been in the last two decades) working together and fusing their different styles.  But it's Steve Wilson, I think, who already has strong feelings about what this project is and how it should sound.   

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #112 on: May 14, 2010, 08:10:17 PM »
I know SW has some weird insecurity about "being too prog,"

wtf?
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #113 on: May 14, 2010, 08:14:42 PM »
I know SW has some weird insecurity about "being too prog,"

wtf?

SW's been quoted as saying "I don't think we are a progressive rock band. I think we're just a rock band. I think what leads people to give it that kind of progressive tag is the way the songs are produced. That epic quality you referred to. "Even Less" is just a very simple pop song really." (from an interview in 1999 after the release of Stupid Dream).

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Offline Sigz

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #114 on: May 14, 2010, 08:17:33 PM »
That doesn't mean he has some fear about 'being too prog', it means he doesn't consider PT a prog band. And comparing them to something like Yes, ELP, or even DT, I'd agree.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #115 on: May 14, 2010, 08:22:44 PM »
That doesn't mean he has some fear about 'being too prog', it means he doesn't consider PT a prog band. And comparing them to something like Yes, ELP, or even DT, I'd agree.

Also, He also didn't want to sing on "Into the Electric Castle" because it was "too prog" for him or something. It's in the linear notes. I thought SW's extreme reluctance toward prog was well-documented and he was only coming around to the label recently?

Offline Sigz

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #116 on: May 14, 2010, 08:30:20 PM »
Actually, now that you mention it, I remember he has said that he doesn't like most modern prog, hence why he didn't want to be grouped in with those bands. No idea about The Electric Castle though, Ayreon never did anything for me. hmm.

As for DT vs. PT, I don't really see how you can compare them musically. They share a lot of fans, but for the most part are quite different musically, and the way they approach music is drastically different.

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Offline Pyroph

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #117 on: May 14, 2010, 08:51:11 PM »
I don't see how the fan base is relevant at all in comparing PT to DT.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #118 on: May 14, 2010, 09:16:12 PM »
The fanbase thing just helps illustrate how the bands cater to the same market of music listeners.

Look, guys. I went camping with Steve Wilson and Mike Portnoy before, and they shared a tent. OK?

Offline zxlkho

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #119 on: May 14, 2010, 09:19:16 PM »
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Offline glaurung

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #120 on: May 14, 2010, 09:40:32 PM »
As for DT vs. PT, I don't really see how you can compare them musically. They share a lot of fans, but for the most part are quite different musically, and the way they approach music is drastically different.

I agree with Perpetual Change. If two completely different bands like Yes and Pink Floyd can both be called Progressive Rock I don't see why PT and DT can't be under the same genera either.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #121 on: May 14, 2010, 10:59:58 PM »
Being under the same genre doesn't mean you are similar.  Opeth and Metallica are both metal.  Are they really that similar?  Not really.  Same with DT and PT (if you choose to call them both prog).  

Besides, I agree that PT is just a rock band, not a prog band.  They have elements of prog, metal, psychedelia, etc. in their music, but at heart, I think they are a rock band.  Not prog.  Certainly not prog metal.  Just rock.  Most of the time, it is just easier for the sake of discussions to concede the prog label to them, however.

Also, PC, I know you aren't a big PT fan, but to say that DT is as diverse as them just doesn't make a lot of sense.  DT is fairly diverse within their own somewhat narrow scope, if that makes sense, but PT has been all over the map stylistically when looking at each of their albums.  

Lastly, I disagree that a lot of us want this project to sound a specific way.  For me, at least, it is quite the opposite.  With Wilson and Akerfeldt, it could go in so many different directions, each of which is pretty exciting, and the way I see it, if Portnoy were to be involved, especially in a creative sense at all, you know he would try to steer it towards combining the sounds of the three main bands they are all in, rather than trying to go to a place none of them have maybe gone before, which I could see Wilson and Akerfeldt doing on their own.  

 

Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #122 on: May 14, 2010, 11:15:09 PM »
With Wilson and Akerfeldt, it could go in so many different directions, each of which is pretty exciting, and the way I see it, if Portnoy were to be involved, especially in a creative sense at all, you know he would try to steer it towards combining the sounds of the three main bands they are all in, rather than trying to go to a place none of them have maybe gone before, which I could see Wilson and Akerfeldt doing on their own.   

I don't know if I agree with that, I mean, TA doesn't really sound like a combination of the four bands, but rather a combination of Neal Morse stuff and Flower Kings stuff. I barely hear any DT or Marillion in it. Also, OSI doesn't sound like a mix of Chroma Key, Fates Warning and DT (At least the first album where MP had any say).
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #123 on: May 14, 2010, 11:37:17 PM »
I have a feeling this project is going to be really out there. I can't wait to hear what it is, even if I end up thinking it's shit :lol

As for Portnoy, I don't really see what he could add to this.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #124 on: May 14, 2010, 11:40:28 PM »
With Wilson and Akerfeldt, it could go in so many different directions, each of which is pretty exciting, and the way I see it, if Portnoy were to be involved, especially in a creative sense at all, you know he would try to steer it towards combining the sounds of the three main bands they are all in, rather than trying to go to a place none of them have maybe gone before, which I could see Wilson and Akerfeldt doing on their own.   

I don't know if I agree with that, I mean, TA doesn't really sound like a combination of the four bands, but rather a combination of Neal Morse stuff and Flower Kings stuff. I barely hear any DT or Marillion in it. Also, OSI doesn't sound like a mix of Chroma Key, Fates Warning and DT (At least the first album where MP had any say).

I probably could have and should have worded what I said a bit better.  But I am freaking tired right now, so I'll try to say it better when I am more awake. :lol :biggrin:

Offline RandalGraves

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #125 on: May 15, 2010, 06:18:30 AM »
As for Portnoy, I don't really see what he could add to this.

Drums, probably.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #126 on: May 15, 2010, 07:03:06 AM »
Also, PC, I know you aren't a big PT fan, but to say that DT is as diverse as them just doesn't make a lot of sense.  DT is fairly diverse within their own somewhat narrow scope, if that makes sense, but PT has been all over the map stylistically when looking at each of their albums.  

Dream Theater have been all over the map.  Or, maybe, I should say Dream Theater used to be all over the map.  I think it's unfair to judge DT simply based on their most recent output, but I can how SC and BC&SL would make one think that they're primarily a metal band.

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #127 on: May 15, 2010, 07:27:39 AM »
Dream Theater have been all over the map.  Or, maybe, I should say Dream Theater used to be all over the map.  I think it's unfair to judge DT simply based on their most recent output, but I can how SC and BC&SL would make one think that they're primarily a metal band.
I have a feeling Kev's been a DT fan long enough he doesn't judge them just by current output  :biggrin:

And now, just because, I'm going to break down each band's album stylistically:
DT
1. WDADU-80s style prog with a bit of Maiden and Rush
2. Images-Epic sounds, progressive metal.
3. Awake-BALLSBALLSBALLS less prog
4. Falling Into Infinity-More of a rock album than anything.
5. Scenes-Their most "rocking" album to date, with more prog than metal
6. 6DoiT-Super Prog
7. Train of Thought-Super Metal/Technicality
8. Octavairum-More prog pop than anything, but tracks 5-7 bring some heaviness
9. Systematic Chaos-Prog Metal with monsters.  BALLS
10. Black Clouds-Epic prog metal

PT
1. OtSoL-Psychedelic
2. UtD-Psychedelic
3. TSMS-Pink Floyd-style psychedelic prog
4. Signify-Moving on to something heavier, exploring more pop elements
5. Stupid Dream-Pop elements but still clinging on to some psychedelic weirdness
6. Lightbulb Sun-Probably the closest to a pop album, but features their first blatant prog song.
7. In Absentia-Metal, with some pop and atmosphere thrown in.
8. Deadwing-A combination of LBS and IA's styles
9. FOABP-Heaviest to date, most prog-sounding too.
10. TI-Still pretty heavy but totally different from Fear's style.

Just from doing that, I couldn't really find myself describing DT's music outside of "rock, prog, metal" while PT's has gone through so many phases that usually wouldn't be caught in the same room together.  While DT has explored different styles, they've always stayed in their niche, while PT, especially early on, has just sort of gone for it and it just magically sounds perfect for them.

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #128 on: May 15, 2010, 08:14:17 AM »
Really funny you posted that SkyDive, because before you did I started a post that basically said the exact same thing:

Whatever the proportions, all DT albums are metal, prog or rock.

Porcupine Tree have introduced brand new genres to their sound multiple times over the course of their career. They are truly all over the map.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #129 on: May 15, 2010, 08:46:08 AM »
Well, then it's a good thing Mike Portnoy has been all over the map, playing in acts as varied as DT, TA, OSI and LTE.  ;D

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #130 on: May 15, 2010, 09:17:59 AM »
Dream Theater have been all over the map.  Or, maybe, I should say Dream Theater used to be all over the map.  I think it's unfair to judge DT simply based on their most recent output, but I can how SC and BC&SL would make one think that they're primarily a metal band.
I have a feeling Kev's been a DT fan long enough he doesn't judge them just by current output  :biggrin:

:lol Exactly!

Just from doing that, I couldn't really find myself describing DT's music outside of "rock, prog, metal" while PT's has gone through so many phases that usually wouldn't be caught in the same room together.  While DT has explored different styles, they've always stayed in their niche, while PT, especially early on, has just sort of gone for it and it just magically sounds perfect for them.

Well-said. :tup :tup

Well, then it's a good thing Mike Portnoy has been all over the map, playing in acts as varied as DT, TA, OSI and LTE.  ;D

Yes, and he has been a dominant songwriter and/or major creative force with all of those bands!  :lol :biggrin:

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #131 on: May 15, 2010, 10:02:48 AM »
Kev, that kinda just proves my point.  Why would the drummer have a big creative influence over this project? People just don't think Mike can do it, or think the drummer has a lot more influence than he really does.  Which is pretty weird if you ask me.

Also, for the list, how about:

Quote
1. WDADU-80s style prog with a bit of Maiden and Rush and Marillion???
2. Images-Epic sounds, progressive metal. Symphonic Metal, "Classical," Funk, Kansas type sounds, piano ballads, power ballads???
3. Awake-BALLSBALLSBALLS less prog How about grundge, more jazz, more symphonic, electronic, acoustic???
4. Falling Into Infinity-More of a rock album than anything. Pop and light rock, grunge, more Rush and PF influences, more funk and bluesy type stuff???
5. Scenes-Their most "rocking" album to date, with more prog than metalBombastic, "light" rock, spiritual/gospel, "eastern" sounds, QUEEN, ragtime, psychedelic, etc ???
6. 6DoiT-Super Prog First disc? THere's electronic, thrash, more eastern influences, a big step into experimental radiohead-esque directions, seriously, there's stuff the band never did before and never did again on this album???
7. Train of Thought-Super Metal/Technicality More of those eastern and modern nu metal influences going on, symphonic, even some rap (ugh)
8. Octavairum-More prog pop than anything, but tracks 5-7 bring some heaviness Also more grunge, more ballads, more nu-metal, more symphonic, more 70s prog, more bombastic stuff, MUSE
9. Systematic Chaos-Prog Metal with monsters.  BALLS Also, a big step in a symphonic metal direction; also takes a few pages out of newer prog-metal playbook, Mastadon and Lamb of God influences, while taking a step back to 80s prog and fantasy lyrics; also explores Opeth/PT territory


Offline ZBomber

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #132 on: May 15, 2010, 10:19:45 AM »
^^ If you're going to break it down that much, and you did the same for PT, I would still say that PT has been more "all over the map".

Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #133 on: May 15, 2010, 10:21:28 AM »
I think that, while DT may have been more all over the place in the past, they are going to be in the same place that they are now for the rest of their career. PT on the other hand, will continue to change and evolve.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #134 on: May 15, 2010, 10:27:39 AM »
I think that, while DT may have been more all over the place in the past, they are going to be in the same place that they are now for the rest of their career. PT on the other hand, will continue to change and evolve.

I'd agree. It's unfortunate, but true.  On the upside, Dream Theater are in a good place now, where IN MY OPINION, Porcupine Tree keep changing for the worse.

Offline InTheNameOfGod

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #135 on: May 15, 2010, 10:33:29 AM »
I think that, while DT may have been more all over the place in the past, they are going to be in the same place that they are now for the rest of their career. PT on the other hand, will continue to change and evolve.

I'd agree. It's unfortunate, but true.  On the upside, Dream Theater are in a good place now, where IN MY OPINION, Porcupine Tree keep changing for the worse.

The key word is 'changing'.

Dream Theater haven't done anything new in years.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #136 on: May 15, 2010, 10:34:35 AM »
DT has done grunge?  Haha, that's a good one.

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #137 on: May 15, 2010, 10:35:12 AM »
I think both bands are kinda in a 'weird' place right now.
The Incident was mindblowing at first, but now i wouldn't rank it higher then place 5 or 6 amongst the PT-albums, as for DT... i really liked BC&SL, but it wasn't AS good as earlier albums like 6DOIT or Awake.
Both bands should step up for the next album imo.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #138 on: May 15, 2010, 10:44:34 AM »
PT did step it up on The Incident, which was a fairly sizable upgrade over the very good Fear of a Blank Planet.  And while Black Clouds and Silver Linings might not been on the level of DT's best three or four records, it was still a big upgrade over everything they had done since 2002, so I think both bands are in a good place right now, relatively speaking.  You can't expect bands to keep releasing their best album this deep into their careers.  But both bands have been around for roughly 20 years now, and both of their newest albums are in the upper half of their respective catalogs, if you ask me.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
« Reply #139 on: May 15, 2010, 10:45:10 AM »
DT has done grunge?  Haha, that's a good one.

Yeah, I think so. I grew up listening to those bands. DT borrowed just as much from those bands in the 90s as they borrowed from Tool and Radiohead in the late 90s and 00s and Muse and such on the last few albums.  

And maybe I'm being tough on PT by saying they're getting progressively worse. The Incident is a step up from Fear, but Fear is far from good.