Megadeth

[MoraWintersoul]

edit:clarity

The most baffling point of view you can take on this issue is that this is Mustaine trying to get ahead of cancel culture. Dave Mustaine, seriously? He risks being cancelled by his audience by firing DE more than he would the other way around.

Mentioning an "already strained relationship" makes me think that he sat down and said "great, now this guy I only keep in the band because it was good for the band at the time he rejoined will send girls younger than my daughter videos like a total dipshit and I'll have people chanting MegaWank!! MegaWank!! when we eventually manage to get on stage and play". Life is too short for that kind of bullshit. Yeah, it's his private thing, but we judge people for private things all the time and want nothing to do with them if they fall short of what we think is good interpersonal behavior. It's fine if I write I think he's a sleazy old hypocrite who deserves all the laughs and memes he's getting* even though he's had something bad done to him as well, but the de-facto owner of the band can't have a private dispute with him and kick him out of the band even without considering ~all of the facts~? After all, he's more personally invested than me.

*Without calling anyone out in particular, I think it's interesting that in the "life chat" section of the board, the attitudes towards life that prevail are pretty conservative, as is befitting of (mostly) men of your generation. Political attitudes trend towards socially conservative when they are fiscally conservative as well, with some exceptions. Are you really, honestly telling me with hands on your hearts you wouldn't have a negative opinion of someone in your environment getting caught sending technically legal wanking videos? When it's your kids, you're honestly telling me that the only two options are either "well my daughter wouldn't do this" and "I would just advise her to be safe"? Why does that have to be an argument anyway, but since it is, you wouldn't dislike a 56-year-old guy who had an online hookup with your 19-year-old daughter even a little bit? If it came up that you two had to do business, you would say "well I can't judge him for what he does in his private life"?

[Dream Team]

Spot on. People are under pressure to approve all things to do with sex above all else, but it doesn’t have to be that way. There is such a thing as balance which is applied in every other aspect of life.

[TAC]

Mora, I’ve read your post a couple of times. What exactly are you asking in the last paragraph?

[MoraWintersoul]

What exactly are you asking in the last paragraph?

If you were in a band with this guy, would you still want to be in a band with this guy? Because everyone is saying "yes, Mustaine should suck it up and be in a band with this guy because he didn't do anything illegal", and yet when people are writing on other sections of the board, they're not that non-judgmental.

By the way and no pun intended, the person who leaked the video should be mega-sued.

[TAC]

What exactly are you asking in the last paragraph?

If you were in a band with this guy, would you still want to be in a band with this guy? Because everyone is saying "yes, Mustaine should suck it up and be in a band with this guy because he didn't do anything illegal", and yet when people are writing on other sections of the board, they're not that non-judgmental.

Ok gotcha. I’ve been thinking about this whole thing and I’ll respond after work.

[Stadler]

The most baffling point of view you can take on this issue is that this is Mustaine trying to get ahead of cancel culture. Dave Mustaine, seriously? He risks being cancelled by his audience by firing DE more than he would the other way around.

Mentioning an "already strained relationship" makes me think that he sat down and said "great, now this guy I only keep in the band because it was good for the band at the time he rejoined will send girls younger than my daughter videos like a total dipshit and I'll have people chanting MegaWank!! MegaWank!! when we eventually manage to get on stage and play". Life is too short for that kind of bullshit. Yeah, it's his private thing, but we judge people for private things all the time and want nothing to do with them if they fall short of what we think is good interpersonal behavior. It's fine if I write I think he's a sleazy old hypocrite who deserves all the laughs and memes he's getting* even though he's had something bad done to him as well, but the de-facto owner of the band can't have a private dispute with him and kick him out of the band even without considering ~all of the facts~? After all, he's more personally invested than me.

*Without calling anyone out in particular, I think it's interesting that in the "life chat" section of the board, the attitudes towards life that prevail are pretty conservative, as is befitting of (mostly) men of your generation. It's about getting married, having kids or pets in a house you own, teaching kids to get a good education and stay out of trouble and form supportive relationships, amassing wealth to take care of them when you're gone and so on and so forth, not a lot of liberated or libertine stuff, not a lot of age gap relationships or hookups, anything-goes-relationships, drug use, nomadic lifestyles. Political attitudes trend towards socially conservative when they are fiscally conservative as well, with some exceptions. Are you really, honestly telling me with hands on your hearts you wouldn't have a negative opinion of someone in your environment getting caught sending technically legal wanking videos? When it's your kids, you're honestly telling me that the only two options are either "well my daughter wouldn't do this" and "I would just advise her to be safe"? Why does that have to be an argument anyway, but since it is, you wouldn't dislike a 56-year-old guy who had an online hookup with your 19-year-old daughter even a little bit? If it came up that you two had to do business, you would say "well I can't judge him for what he does in his private life"?

The two issues aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.   I can tolerate someone's moral choices and not want to be subject to them.   Since I wrote something similar to the bold, I am yes, honestly saying that my advice to my kid would be to "be safe".  What else am I going to do?  I'm not now and never have been a "do it my way, or hit the highway" kind of guy.   Would I LIKE it?  No, not necessarily.  But we're not at the point of "like" or "dislike", we're at the point of telling other, consenting, adult people what they can or cannot do, and better or worse, that's not my way of dealing with the world.  I don't like it when people tell me what MY morals should be, and the price of being able to tell them to go fuck themselves is that I don't get to do the same thing to them.   My adult (that is, over the age of consent) kids are smart and more worldly than I was at that same age.  I worry, I don't like everything they do, but I also know they are reasonably intelligent, and I have to trust them and the decisions they make.  That's not to say that I wouldn't possibly have done what Mustaine did, and I've never once said that he couldn't do it.  I was more focused on the people judging the CAUSE.  Mustaine could fire him because it's Tuesday, so the two issues aren't really the same question; don't confuse - as so many people do in this day and age of "moral judgement" - "accept" and "tolerate".

(Having said that, though, what's the difference between firing someone for online masturbation, and say, other behavior that some find questionable?   If Ellefson was dressed as a nurse, and was leading around another guy dressed like the leather guy from the Village People through Provincetown, MA  - something I've personally witnessed - what would the answer be? There's where your hypocrisy comes in.)

[El Barto]

The most baffling point of view you can take on this issue is that this is Mustaine trying to get ahead of cancel culture. Dave Mustaine, seriously? He risks being cancelled by his audience by firing DE more than he would the other way around.

Mentioning an "already strained relationship" makes me think that he sat down and said "great, now this guy I only keep in the band because it was good for the band at the time he rejoined will send girls younger than my daughter videos like a total dipshit and I'll have people chanting MegaWank!! MegaWank!! when we eventually manage to get on stage and play". Life is too short for that kind of bullshit. Yeah, it's his private thing, but we judge people for private things all the time and want nothing to do with them if they fall short of what we think is good interpersonal behavior. It's fine if I write I think he's a sleazy old hypocrite who deserves all the laughs and memes he's getting* even though he's had something bad done to him as well, but the de-facto owner of the band can't have a private dispute with him and kick him out of the band even without considering ~all of the facts~? After all, he's more personally invested than me.

*Without calling anyone out in particular, I think it's interesting that in the "life chat" section of the board, the attitudes towards life that prevail are pretty conservative, as is befitting of (mostly) men of your generation. It's about getting married, having kids or pets in a house you own, teaching kids to get a good education and stay out of trouble and form supportive relationships, amassing wealth to take care of them when you're gone and so on and so forth, not a lot of liberated or libertine stuff, not a lot of age gap relationships or hookups, anything-goes-relationships, drug use, nomadic lifestyles. Political attitudes trend towards socially conservative when they are fiscally conservative as well, with some exceptions. Are you really, honestly telling me with hands on your hearts you wouldn't have a negative opinion of someone in your environment getting caught sending technically legal wanking videos? When it's your kids, you're honestly telling me that the only two options are either "well my daughter wouldn't do this" and "I would just advise her to be safe"? Why does that have to be an argument anyway, but since it is, you wouldn't dislike a 56-year-old guy who had an online hookup with your 19-year-old daughter even a little bit? If it came up that you two had to do business, you would say "well I can't judge him for what he does in his private life"?

Since it's OK for Mustaine to fire Ellefson over a disagreement over the morality of his actions, surely that means he could fire him for being gay, right? Where should we draw the line when it comes to evaluating the private life of an employee? Like Stadler, I fully support DM's right to fire DE. It's his band. Let's try and maintain some consistency here, though. If you're going to allow morality to become a factor in your decision making, then you have to allow others to do the same.

[Anxiety35]

The most baffling point of view you can take on this issue is that this is Mustaine trying to get ahead of cancel culture. Dave Mustaine, seriously? He risks being cancelled by his audience by firing DE more than he would the other way around.

Mentioning an "already strained relationship" makes me think that he sat down and said "great, now this guy I only keep in the band because it was good for the band at the time he rejoined will send girls younger than my daughter videos like a total dipshit and I'll have people chanting MegaWank!! MegaWank!! when we eventually manage to get on stage and play". Life is too short for that kind of bullshit. Yeah, it's his private thing, but we judge people for private things all the time and want nothing to do with them if they fall short of what we think is good interpersonal behavior. It's fine if I write I think he's a sleazy old hypocrite who deserves all the laughs and memes he's getting* even though he's had something bad done to him as well, but the de-facto owner of the band can't have a private dispute with him and kick him out of the band even without considering ~all of the facts~? After all, he's more personally invested than me.

*Without calling anyone out in particular, I think it's interesting that in the "life chat" section of the board, the attitudes towards life that prevail are pretty conservative, as is befitting of (mostly) men of your generation. It's about getting married, having kids or pets in a house you own, teaching kids to get a good education and stay out of trouble and form supportive relationships, amassing wealth to take care of them when you're gone and so on and so forth, not a lot of liberated or libertine stuff, not a lot of age gap relationships or hookups, anything-goes-relationships, drug use, nomadic lifestyles. Political attitudes trend towards socially conservative when they are fiscally conservative as well, with some exceptions. Are you really, honestly telling me with hands on your hearts you wouldn't have a negative opinion of someone in your environment getting caught sending technically legal wanking videos? When it's your kids, you're honestly telling me that the only two options are either "well my daughter wouldn't do this" and "I would just advise her to be safe"? Why does that have to be an argument anyway, but since it is, you wouldn't dislike a 56-year-old guy who had an online hookup with your 19-year-old daughter even a little bit? If it came up that you two had to do business, you would say "well I can't judge him for what he does in his private life"?

Since it's OK for Mustaine to fire Ellefson over a disagreement over the morality of his actions, surely that means he could fire him for being gay, right? Where should we draw the line when it comes to evaluating the private life of an employee? Like Stadler, I fully support DM's right to fire DE. It's his band. Let's try and maintain some consistency here, though. If you're going to allow morality to become a factor in your decision making, then you have to allow others to do the same.

It all depends on what Ellefson's contract stated. There are grounds for termination in a contract. Did Ellefson's actions warrant his termination? Our opinions don't matter. What matters is what the contract states. If the contract had in it that termination would happen with any personal action that would be detrimental to the band's image and perception, then what Ellefson did could be deemed as such.

We must note that we have no idea what Ellefson's contract says.

[El Barto]

The most baffling point of view you can take on this issue is that this is Mustaine trying to get ahead of cancel culture. Dave Mustaine, seriously? He risks being cancelled by his audience by firing DE more than he would the other way around.

Mentioning an "already strained relationship" makes me think that he sat down and said "great, now this guy I only keep in the band because it was good for the band at the time he rejoined will send girls younger than my daughter videos like a total dipshit and I'll have people chanting MegaWank!! MegaWank!! when we eventually manage to get on stage and play". Life is too short for that kind of bullshit. Yeah, it's his private thing, but we judge people for private things all the time and want nothing to do with them if they fall short of what we think is good interpersonal behavior. It's fine if I write I think he's a sleazy old hypocrite who deserves all the laughs and memes he's getting* even though he's had something bad done to him as well, but the de-facto owner of the band can't have a private dispute with him and kick him out of the band even without considering ~all of the facts~? After all, he's more personally invested than me.

*Without calling anyone out in particular, I think it's interesting that in the "life chat" section of the board, the attitudes towards life that prevail are pretty conservative, as is befitting of (mostly) men of your generation. It's about getting married, having kids or pets in a house you own, teaching kids to get a good education and stay out of trouble and form supportive relationships, amassing wealth to take care of them when you're gone and so on and so forth, not a lot of liberated or libertine stuff, not a lot of age gap relationships or hookups, anything-goes-relationships, drug use, nomadic lifestyles. Political attitudes trend towards socially conservative when they are fiscally conservative as well, with some exceptions. Are you really, honestly telling me with hands on your hearts you wouldn't have a negative opinion of someone in your environment getting caught sending technically legal wanking videos? When it's your kids, you're honestly telling me that the only two options are either "well my daughter wouldn't do this" and "I would just advise her to be safe"? Why does that have to be an argument anyway, but since it is, you wouldn't dislike a 56-year-old guy who had an online hookup with your 19-year-old daughter even a little bit? If it came up that you two had to do business, you would say "well I can't judge him for what he does in his private life"?

Since it's OK for Mustaine to fire Ellefson over a disagreement over the morality of his actions, surely that means he could fire him for being gay, right? Where should we draw the line when it comes to evaluating the private life of an employee? Like Stadler, I fully support DM's right to fire DE. It's his band. Let's try and maintain some consistency here, though. If you're going to allow morality to become a factor in your decision making, then you have to allow others to do the same.

It all depends on what Ellefson's contract stated. There are grounds for termination in a contract. Did Ellefson's actions warrant his termination? Our opinions don't matter. What matters is what the contract states. If the contract had in it that termination would happen with any personal action that would be detrimental to the band's image and perception, then what Ellefson did could be deemed as such.

We must note that we have no idea what Ellefson's contract says.

Of course this is all true. I don't think anybody is arguing the legality of this. Hell, I've spent ten years arguing that anybody should be able to fire any employee for any reason they want, end of story. I think the question being bandied about is whether firing him for this reason makes him an asshole. Thus far opinions seem to be pretty evenly mixed on good guy/bad guy status. I also raised the greater, general point in my reply to MW regarding using morality as a basis for business decisions, and the danger of applying such subjective standards out here in the real world.

[TAC]

No idea if this has anything to do with the Ellefson situation, but..timing...

https://bravewords.com/news/david-ellefson-s-business-partner-thom-hazaert-retires-from-music-business-f-k-music-i-hate-it-now-anyway


This guy's statement is worth the read. This dude is mad.

[WilliamMunny]

No idea if this has anything to do with the Ellefson situation, but..timing...

https://bravewords.com/news/david-ellefson-s-business-partner-thom-hazaert-retires-from-music-business-f-k-music-i-hate-it-now-anyway


This guy's statement is worth the read. This dude is mad.

I can appreciate his stance, and honestly, as a musician that no one will ever hear of, I can even identify with a lot of what he says...but, seriously, why post that? I will never, ever understand our society's obsession with social media.

[LudwigVan]

It sounds as if he’s lashing out at someone specific. Like a personal message in a public forum, as in, I’m not naming names but you know who you are. I wonder who? Ellefson? Mustaine? Both?

[wolfking]

No idea if this has anything to do with the Ellefson situation, but..timing...

https://bravewords.com/news/david-ellefson-s-business-partner-thom-hazaert-retires-from-music-business-f-k-music-i-hate-it-now-anyway


This guy's statement is worth the read. This dude is mad.

Is he Jesus?  He literally died?

[jammindude]

No idea if this has anything to do with the Ellefson situation, but..timing...

https://bravewords.com/news/david-ellefson-s-business-partner-thom-hazaert-retires-from-music-business-f-k-music-i-hate-it-now-anyway


This guy's statement is worth the read. This dude is mad.

Is he Jesus?  He literally died?

Could be a Nikki Sixx-like situation. Died but revived.

[YtseJam]

Has anyone called the wahhmbulance yet? He could have just said this:

"We live in a nearly apocalyptic world where anyone can say anything and post it on the internet, and it’s true. A World that thrives on drama, and manipulation, where everyone wants to be a victim, and anyone will hear anything, with no context or actual knowledge of the situation, and it’s true. (If they want it to be.) That’s this world, and even moreso, this business. And this has been proven to be true of even some of my closest “friends”.

and then retired but the rest made him sound like a sore loser.

[Stadler]

I don't know.  I hate those 'screeds'.  What's the point?  NO ONE is that much of a saint, and so it just begs the question that there's another side to this that would put everything in perspective.  And the old "I COULD tell, but I won't, because 'me'" thing is lame-o, if you ask me.  Either do it or shut the fuck up about it.   There's no honor in implication, just cowardice.   I know, harsh, but it is how I feel about it.  This guy - who I've never heard of - does have a wiki page, and to read it, it's not like he's not had opportunities, so for me, that just reads like "Hmm, it can't possibly be my bad decisions or poor choices, so it MUST be that I've been fucked over by every living person that came into contact with me".   Please.  I'll pass on that.

[WilliamMunny]

I don't know.  I hate those 'screeds'.  What's the point?  NO ONE is that much of a saint, and so it just begs the question that there's another side to this that would put everything in perspective.  And the old "I COULD tell, but I won't, because 'me'" thing is lame-o, if you ask me.  Either do it or shut the fuck up about it.   There's no honor in implication, just cowardice.   I know, harsh, but it is how I feel about it.  This guy - who I've never heard of - does have a wiki page, and to read it, it's not like he's not had opportunities, so for me, that just reads like "Hmm, it can't possibly be my bad decisions or poor choices, so it MUST be that I've been fucked over by every living person that came into contact with me".   Please.  I'll pass on that.

This.

[El Barto]

I don't know.  I hate those 'screeds'.  What's the point?  NO ONE is that much of a saint, and so it just begs the question that there's another side to this that would put everything in perspective.  And the old "I COULD tell, but I won't, because 'me'" thing is lame-o, if you ask me.  Either do it or shut the fuck up about it.   There's no honor in implication, just cowardice.   I know, harsh, but it is how I feel about it.  This guy - who I've never heard of - does have a wiki page, and to read it, it's not like he's not had opportunities, so for me, that just reads like "Hmm, it can't possibly be my bad decisions or poor choices, so it MUST be that I've been fucked over by every living person that came into contact with me".   Please.  I'll pass on that.

Sounds like the dude just needed to vent. Everybody needs to once in a while. If it were a calculated response threatening to name names and unearth bodies I'd agree with you. Seems more stream of consciousness, though. I wouldn't read any more into it than a guy is sick to death of a corrupt to the core industry, and wanted to rant. Mission accomplished.

[jammindude]

I agree with EB. Oh I think we all try to stay out of the rigmarole as much as we can, but once in a while, when the straw breaks the camels back, we’ve all been guilty of typing out some sort of “mission statement” type of rant.

[Stadler]

Not that I've never, but I guess that's just not my style.  If I've got beef with people I try to deal with the people, instead of embarrassing them purposefully or inadvertently (who didn't read that and think "wow, he's really got it out for Dave Ellefson!").   People have been venting for 10's of thousands of years, and I think the consequences are different when they can be reduced to writing and exposed to the entire world.

[jammindude]

Not that I've never, but I guess that's just not my style.  If I've got beef with people I try to deal with the people, instead of embarrassing them purposefully or inadvertently (who didn't read that and think "wow, he's really got it out for Dave Ellefson!").   People have been venting for 10's of thousands of years, and I think the consequences are different when they can be reduced to writing and exposed to the entire world.

Well, apparently this guy has been in the music business for a very long time and I’ve never heard of him until now. So one could make the argument that it’s not exactly his MO either.

[Ben_Jamin]

Not that I've never, but I guess that's just not my style.  If I've got beef with people I try to deal with the people, instead of embarrassing them purposefully or inadvertently (who didn't read that and think "wow, he's really got it out for Dave Ellefson!").   People have been venting for 10's of thousands of years, and I think the consequences are different when they can be reduced to writing and exposed to the entire world.

I didn't read it as a means to be out for Dave Ellefson specifically. It's a "got it out" for the entire Music Businesses Industry as a whole. It really is a messed up business, with lots of shady deals happening regarding contract deals, and how those contract deals can come across. And how him, being a part of this Shady Business has sucked all the excitement, passion, and joy of why he got in the business in the first place. It's not because of Money, it's because of that passion. And with regards to how messed up this business is, it's corrupted that it kills that passion...


As an example is Marco Hietala from Nightwish. He just up and quit and decided to leave the entire Industry and Business as well. He wants nothing to do with it anymore.

And then there is the fiasco with the tour promoter, where bands ended up cutting ties with him. It left the Symphony X show with Primal Fear and Firewind up in the air, as that guy was promoting the show.

It's a really big deal in the Music Business Industry right now. It's bigger than we think, and we can only go off of 'why is it that bands are cutting ties with promoters?'...

https://distincttoday.net/2021/04/07/pop-stars-including-sam-fender-cut-ties-with-promoter-and-festival-organiser-ssd-concerts/

He is venting, because of how this industry has depleted and, like a vampire, sucked out all the blood of his motivation.

How is it that a business can be so corrupt up that it destroys peoples passion, and joy, to the point where they don't want to do it anymore?

[Stadler]

Look, I get it.  I've been saying for two decades to anyone that will listen that "find your passion" is the worst career advice you could ever get/give, because it only means that your passion will be driven from you and killed in a painful death when you realize it's a shitty way to have to put food on the table if you're not one of the handful that break out.  My oldest stepson LOVES cars.  LOVES them.  He got a job as a tech with a BMW dealer - his favorite car/manufacturer - and left in like 9 months, because after the 245th oil change on the ultimate driving machine that the owner apparently doesn't give two shits about, he was losing his mind.

But it's not new at this point; all you have to do is read any rock biography, or watch any three or four of the 100's of Behind The Music episodes to see it's not all tea and roses.   The guy hob-nobbed with his favorite artists and has a wiki-page.  Forgive me, call me cold, but I'm not shedding any tears here. 

[WilliamMunny]

Look, I get it.  I've been saying for two decades to anyone that will listen that "find your passion" is the worst career advice you could ever get/give, because it only means that your passion will be driven from you and killed in a painful death when you realize it's a shitty way to have to put food on the table if you're not one of the handful that break out.  My oldest stepson LOVES cars.  LOVES them.  He got a job as a tech with a BMW dealer - his favorite car/manufacturer - and left in like 9 months, because after the 245th oil change on the ultimate driving machine that the owner apparently doesn't give two shits about, he was losing his mind.

But it's not new at this point; all you have to do is read any rock biography, or watch any three or four of the 100's of Behind The Music episodes to see it's not all tea and roses.   The guy hob-nobbed with his favorite artists and has a wiki-page.  Forgive me, call me cold, but I'm not shedding any tears here.

I take your point here, but I would counter that 'find your passion' can also mean 'play to your strengths,' which, IMO, is great advice.

While the BMW thing didn't work out, there are certainly other options for your step-son in the automotive industry.

I've been working in the music-industry for 25 years. Be it behind the counter at a record store, or as a buyer for a major retail player, I'm not necessarily 'making records,' but at least I'm still connected to music.

Are there things that piss me off about my job? Absolutely, but here's what I like to tell new hires during onboarding: "The way I look at it, regardless of what you do for a job, you have to talk about 'something' to 'someone' all day long. A banker has to talk about money, a mechanic has to talk about cars, a doctor has to talk about surgery—I talk about pianos and guitars and, well, all sorts of musical things. As a lifelong musician, my job is an effortless exercise in that there's already an inherent passion there.

I agree with you, Stadler—the wrong job can ruin just about anything, including your passion, but I'd contend that it's far from a given.

[Stadler]

You're 100% right; he ended up joining the Army as a helicopter mechanic and has found his niche.  He gets to turn wrenches, but it's a different clientele and the challenge is always there (being airlifted out to fix a damaged bird in the field - in Afghanistan - certainly put the "excitement" back in his job).   

[Ben_Jamin]

Look, I get it.  I've been saying for two decades to anyone that will listen that "find your passion" is the worst career advice you could ever get/give, because it only means that your passion will be driven from you and killed in a painful death when you realize it's a shitty way to have to put food on the table if you're not one of the handful that break out.  My oldest stepson LOVES cars.  LOVES them.  He got a job as a tech with a BMW dealer - his favorite car/manufacturer - and left in like 9 months, because after the 245th oil change on the ultimate driving machine that the owner apparently doesn't give two shits about, he was losing his mind.

But it's not new at this point; all you have to do is read any rock biography, or watch any three or four of the 100's of Behind The Music episodes to see it's not all tea and roses.   The guy hob-nobbed with his favorite artists and has a wiki-page.  Forgive me, call me cold, but I'm not shedding any tears here.

I'm not shedding tears either.

It's just how things are now as this dark area of the Entertainment Business Industry is being exposed by the very people in that Business Industry.

We all wonder why members of bands leave, and most won't say because of this shady dealings. Hip-Hop artists know this all too well. You want to famous and at the top, you got to pay. It's why popular Hip-Hop sounds the way it does. While the true Hip-Hop is left in the dirt, where we have to dig to find the gold. And these true Hip-Hop artists talk about a lot of things regarding life and politics as well. These Hip-Hop artists will never be as famous or well known as the popular Hip-Hop artists. And like any great music,  they have followers.

It's why Dead Prez wrote "It's Bigger Than Hip-Hop"...There is also a book of the same name that is very fascinating and gives a glimpse into the Hip-Hop culture.

That is just one area of this entire Music Business Industry. Then there's the Metal World. The Country World, and even the Latino music world.

Even the Marley's talk about these kind of things. Listen to Mind Control by Stephen Marley and the Nas and Damian Marley collab album Distant Relatives.

I'm sorry I post essays on these forums. But I have a lot to say about these topics. Especially music, as I have gathered this perception based off of Behind The Scenes, Books, Biography's, and interviews on YouTube. Marco Hietala leaving caused Patty Gurdy to talk with Tom Englund about depression, and mental health in the Music Industry. This is where I found out Tom has a degree in Psychology. Which I find amazing. And then you add in Kevin Moore, and the reasons for him being cold, and not into it, and just leaving doing his own thing, and becoming a Psychologist. His music reflects this passion for understanding the human mind, especially when you consider the source for Graveyard Mountain Home. Moore is really good at putting emotional tones into Music.

[Zydar]

They've recorded a new album, right? Do you think they'll "pull an Ozzy" and re-record Ellefson's parts before release?

Looks like they will do just that.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/dave_mustaine_removes_david_ellefson_tracks_from_new_megadeth_album_says_bass_parts_will_be_re-recorded_by_stellar_new_bassist.html

[TAC]

They've recorded a new album, right? Do you think they'll "pull an Ozzy" and re-record Ellefson's parts before release?

Looks like they will do just that.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/dave_mustaine_removes_david_ellefson_tracks_from_new_megadeth_album_says_bass_parts_will_be_re-recorded_by_stellar_new_bassist.html

[El Barto]

What's stellar is the amount of press he's getting because of this. My first thought was that he foolishly Streisanded this whole thing, as it probably would have blown over on its own. Now I think that was the plan. When was the last time Megadeth actually had any relevance? Suddenly people are interested again. Even the people like me that can't stand the guy are talking about him again.

[MoraWintersoul]

Since it's OK for Mustaine to fire Ellefson over a disagreement over the morality of his actions, surely that means he could fire him for being gay, right? Where should we draw the line when it comes to evaluating the private life of an employee? Like Stadler, I fully support DM's right to fire DE. It's his band. Let's try and maintain some consistency here, though. If you're going to allow morality to become a factor in your decision making, then you have to allow others to do the same.

You're comparing apples to oranges, your example is pretty illegal. So it would be if Mustaine said "the new guy in my band is a Catholic (what flavor of Christian is Mustaine again?), I can't deal with that, off he goes". Or "his Ancestry results came back, turns out he's Danish, goodbye". The rest is just, good reasons and bad reasons, good morals and bad morals. You can fire a guy for stealing riffs, yelling at people, and yes, turning himself into a wank meme on the internet with people arguing in the comment sections if the girl you sent the video to was underage or not, and I won't judge you even a little bit, and those are all morality based decisions. A morality based decision would also be if you fired a guy for smoking weed in his private time, and then I might judge you a little bit, and call you a square.

[Stadler]

Since it's OK for Mustaine to fire Ellefson over a disagreement over the morality of his actions, surely that means he could fire him for being gay, right? Where should we draw the line when it comes to evaluating the private life of an employee? Like Stadler, I fully support DM's right to fire DE. It's his band. Let's try and maintain some consistency here, though. If you're going to allow morality to become a factor in your decision making, then you have to allow others to do the same.

You're comparing apples to oranges, your example is pretty illegal. So it would be if Mustaine said "the new guy in my band is a Catholic (what flavor of Christian is Mustaine again?), I can't deal with that, off he goes". Or "his Ancestry results came back, turns out he's Danish, goodbye". The rest is just, good reasons and bad reasons, good morals and bad morals. You can fire a guy for stealing riffs, yelling at people, and yes, turning himself into a wank meme on the internet with people arguing in the comment sections if the girl you sent the video to was underage or not, and I won't judge you even a little bit, and those are all morality based decisions. A morality based decision would also be if you fired a guy for smoking weed in his private time, and then I might judge you a little bit, and call you a square.

You're technically right, but I think El Barto is going for "is it just"?  At least that's where I would hope he's going.  To me, wanking on the internet is a sexual "choice" just like anything else.   Outside of the obvious infringements on consent, why should some sexual expressions be frowned upon - indelibly linked to moral judgement - and others not just tolerated but celebrated - and forcibly separated from moral judgment?

This is where the current narrative on identity politics fails us, if you ask me, and why you are able to say "such-and-such is illegal".  The narrative has clouded the difference between a state of being, and the actions used to express that state of being.   There are plenty and plenty of straight people who have sexual urges they are born with, that they cannot control, and which do not harm any other individual, and yet are forced, for moral and/or legal reasons, to curtail those urges in whole or in part (ask anyone that is attracted to people of a certain age, or or engage in exhibitionary behavior - I'm thinking of the cute teacher that has a couple photos or videos in her past - or have have developed feelings for a familial relation).  I SHOULD be able to view homosexuality as immoral, in the same way I am entitled to view promiscuity, or polygamy, or any other subset of the sexual continuum as "immoral".  Should I be able to act on that view?


(And for anyone reading this, don't for a second assume; for a old man that leans conservative on many things, I very much believe that two consenting adults ought to be able to pretty much do whatever they want sexually.  Whether I - or anyone else - approves or understands should not factor into that even a little bit.  Mustaine should be able to fire him, but the reasons don't really matter; I think he should be able to fire him because it's Tuesday, or because Mustaine rolled a 15 on his 20-sided die.)

[El Barto]

You're technically right, but I think El Barto is going for "is it just"?

  Just trying to suggest a bit of consistency here.

[Volante99]

What's stellar is the amount of press he's getting because of this. My first thought was that he foolishly Streisanded this whole thing, as it probably would have blown over on its own. Now I think that was the plan. When was the last time Megadeth actually had any relevance? Suddenly people are interested again. Even the people like me that can't stand the guy are talking about him again.

100% my thoughts. Feel like the whole thing had already blown over and THEN Mustaine canned Ellefson and brought it back to the “front page” again.

[wolfking]

They've recorded a new album, right? Do you think they'll "pull an Ozzy" and re-record Ellefson's parts before release?

Looks like they will do just that.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/dave_mustaine_removes_david_ellefson_tracks_from_new_megadeth_album_says_bass_parts_will_be_re-recorded_by_stellar_new_bassist.html

Lol Mustaine.  Ruthless, love him.

[Zydar]

We have an album title confirmed.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/upcoming_releases/dave_mustaine_confirms_title_of_the_new_megadeth_album.html