May 20th is Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!!!

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

That is true, I guess.

[ack44]

Unless someone can show me a good reason to depict the Prophet, then this is just mean-spirited bullshit.

 Welcome to the internet. (Yes, this in an internet phenomenon)

No it isn't.

 Yes it is. The threats to the South Park creators wouldn't be a big deal if it weren't for the internet. The drawing Mohammed day wouldn't be such a fuss if it weren't for the internet. Call it douchebaggery all you want, but it's just people reacting to violent threats in a peaceful way.... on the internet. Disrespectful? Offensive? Welcome to the internet.  

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Let's remember that the creators of South Park aren't just innocent guys who were all "What?  Really?  Should I not have done that?"  These are people who purposely stir up shit for the sole purpose of offending people.  It turns out to be funny, but they did it all on purpose.  No that doesn't excuse threats of violence against them, but let's stop pretending like these guys are so innocent.

[hefdaddy42]

OK.  I give up.  Be douches if you must.

Hey, guys.  I have an idea.  Let's offend millions of people whom we have never met, because a few dicks are out there.  That'll show 'em.

Oh and hey, it's about our right to be a douche.  We have a right to be a douche if we want to be.  My right to do something that I would never have even dreamt of doing 2 weeks ago is much more important than your religion.  Fuck that.  It's all about me.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

You know that, unfortunately, that's how it goes with most things nowadays, hef.  I am more important than the world.

[ack44]

 South Park is pretty bad, but it's not as bad as Google image search...



 

[ehra]

Let's remember that the creators of South Park aren't just innocent guys who were all "What?  Really?  Should I not have done that?"  These are people who purposely stir up shit for the sole purpose of offending people.  It turns out to be funny, but they did it all on purpose.  No that doesn't excuse threats of violence against them, but let's stop pretending like these guys are so innocent.

Don't know about anyone else, but I'm not. I'm saying that there's a double standard going on that up until now,they've been allowed to do whatever they want but now Muslims are off limits. It's either all or nothing, if it's ok to make fun of anyone else then it should be ok to make fun of Muslims as well. If it's not ok to make fun of Muslims then it also shouldn't be ok to make fun of anyone else, ever.

OK.  I give up.  Be douches if you must.

Hey, guys.  I have an idea.  Let's offend millions of people whom we have never met, because a few dicks are out there.  That'll show 'em.

Oh and hey, it's about our right to be a douche.  We have a right to be a douche if we want to be.  My right to do something that I would never have even dreamt of doing 2 weeks ago is much more important than your religion.  Fuck that.  It's all about me.

So are you going to answer my question or keep repeating the same argument that ignores the core of the issue? Unless you have never made fun of anyone ever, or never said anything that might offend anyone, then you have no room to talk.

If this is an inappropriate form of protest then what would be a proper (and effective) way to do things?

[Dr. SeaWolf]

OK.  I give up.  Be douches if you must.

Hey, guys.  I have an idea.  Let's offend millions of people whom we have never met, because a few dicks are out there.  That'll show 'em.

Oh and hey, it's about our right to be a douche.  We have a right to be a douche if we want to be.  My right to do something that I would never have even dreamt of doing 2 weeks ago is much more important than your religion.  Fuck that.  It's all about me.

People find offensive humor funny.  The creators of South Park make their living offending people, and as long as there are people who want to watch it, they will do it.  If someone doesn't like it, they don't have to watch it.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

You've just said the single most important thing anybody can say on the topic.  If something on TV offends you, it is your responsibility to CHANGE THE FUCKING CHANNEL.  Especially if something offends you on a show you'd never watch in the first place.  It isn't everybody else's place to ensure that you are shielded from it (without going the other way and purposely trying to expose you to it at avery opportunity).

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Also, does anyone else think that "douche" is the sound that a toy laser gun should make?

[Super Dude]

I actually said that on the first page, thanks. That was my first post in the topic.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I skimmed across the first page, probably.  Whoever said it, it's correct.

[Adami]

Holy crap.

There is a major glossing over of arguments here, I know my post will be completely ignored, but let me try to clear things up.

1. You know my side is right simply because Hef, Bosk, myself and Emin actually agree on something, that's like impossible.

2. None of us are saying not to depict muhammad. We're saying that if the situation calls for it, feel free. But wait for that moment. Don't do it just to show that you can. Christians have no rules about depicting anyone, sure it may offend them but it's not against their religion. It's actually blasphemy to muslims, its' just not offensive.


So to sum up, depicting muhammad for a good reason is FINE. Depicting muhammad just to show that you can is a douche bag move.

Sorry.

[bosk1]

Holy crap.

There is a major glossing over of arguments here, I know my post will be completely ignored, but let me try to clear things up.

1. You know my side is right simply because Hef, Bosk, myself and Emin actually agree on something, that's like impossible.

2. None of us are saying not to depict muhammad. We're saying that if the situation calls for it, feel free. But wait for that moment. Don't do it just to show that you can. Christians have no rules about depicting anyone, sure it may offend them but it's not against their religion. It's actually blasphemy to muslims, its' just not offensive.


So to sum up, depicting muhammad for a good reason is FINE. Depicting muhammad just to show that you can is a douche bag move.

Sorry.

I'm bosk1 and I approve of this message.

[Super Dude]

Alright, I can agree with that argument.  Of course it also depends on your definition of a "good reason."  Can satire not be considered an acceptable reason?  As has probably been said a million times in this thread, Matt Stone and Trey Parker are famous for their offensive shock humor; that's the essence of South Park.  They've made fun of every group in existence that can be exploited in some way (even fans of other offensive shows), so to say that making fun of Muslims is crossing the line is to, once again, draw a double standard.  If they can make fun of gay people and make fun of Jews, Christians, etc., why is it then wrong to also make fun of Muslims?

[ehra]

So to sum up, depicting muhammad for a good reason is FINE.

Why is showing that you won't give in to threats of violence not a good reason?

Speaking of glossing over arguments, I'm still waiting for what an appropriate from of protest would be that also makes a point. Like I said, saying you won't be intimidated but still doing exactly what they say holds absolutely no weight

[Adami]

So to sum up, depicting muhammad for a good reason is FINE.

Why is showing that you won't give in to threats of violence not a good reason?

Speaking of glossing over arguments, I'm still waiting for what an appropriate from of protest would be that also makes a point. Like I said, saying you won't be intimidated but still doing exactly what they say holds absolutely no weight

Because the billion muslims of this world aren't threatening you. A few are. Do you really have to piss off an entire religion just because a few get pissy? Just don't give into it. If a situation arises where you should show muhammad, do so. But this isn't one of them.

[Adami]

Alright, I can agree with that argument.  Of course it also depends on your definition of a "good reason."  Can satire not be considered an acceptable reason?  As has probably been said a million times in this thread, Matt Stone and Trey Parker are famous for their offensive shock humor; that's the essence of South Park.  They've made fun of every group in existence that can be exploited in some way (even fans of other offensive shows), so to say that making fun of Muslims is crossing the line is to, once again, draw a double standard.  If they can make fun of gay people and make fun of Jews, Christians, etc., why is it then wrong to also make fun of Muslims?

It's not. South Park should not have been censored. That's not what I'm arguing against. I'm arguing against a mass "let's show those dirty muslim people!" display.

[ehra]

Why is showing that you won't give in to threats of violence not a good reason?

It's not. South Park should not have been censored. That's not what I'm arguing against. I'm arguing against a mass "let's show those dirty muslim people!" display.

The article in the OP even specifically says that it's not direct at "those dirty Muslim people." It's directed at the extremists.

[Adami]

So offending a billion people is fine as long as it also offends a few dozen?

[ack44]

None of us are saying not to depict muhammad. We're saying that if the situation calls for it, feel free. But wait for that moment. Don't do it just to show that you can. Christians have no rules about depicting anyone, sure it may offend them but it's not against their religion. It's actually blasphemy to muslims, its' just not offensive.

 It shouldn't stand out when a certain somebody does something to offend Muslims. That's why Theo van Gogh was assassinated; extremists were able to point the finger at him specifically and make him a target. If everybody is doing it, the extremists wouldn't be able to make a case for violence. So I say spread the risk.

[bosk1]

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

target=extremists="dirty Muslim people."

Offend one = offend all.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

[ehra]

So offending a billion people is fine as long as it also offends a few dozen?

The point isn't to offend them.

Speaking of glossing over arguments, I'm still waiting for what an appropriate from of protest would be that also makes a point. Like I said, saying you won't be intimidated but still doing exactly what they say holds absolutely no weight

I guess we're simply not allowed to protest against Muslim extremists. But no one's rights are at stake!

[bosk1]

That'll work.  Funny thing is, the only real reason I posted that is because I am, in fact, literally eating popcorn while reading thsi thread.

[ack44]

I guess we're simply not allowed to protest against Muslim extremists.

 Dude, that would be offensive.

[Adami]

What's the point in protesting extremists? Just don't let them bother you. Do you think pissing them off is going to make them go away?

[Super Dude]

Do you think acquiescing to them will?

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

So exactly how remote and pointless does the offending action have to be to you before there's no point in defending it.  If the extremsists threatened violence against anyone who wanted to inject bananas with green food coloring while they're still on the tree, draw smiley faces on them, then harvest them and send them out to the stores with a sticker on them that says "Have a Nice Day!", would we feel the need to go and do all of that?

If extremists threatened violence against anyone who would dare stand on one foot on the 11th step of their own state capitol building and stare crosseyed in an eastward direction, while wearing a fedora, would we all rush to do that?  How inconsequential does the offending act have to be in the average person's day-to-day life before it isn't worth wasting time over?  Because this seems pretty low-priority on my list of things to worry about having the right to do.

[ehra]

What's the point in protesting extremists? Just don't let them bother you. Do you think pissing them off is going to make them go away?

The message it sends to the people you're targeting is just as important to the message it sends to anyone else that'll hopefully join the cause. And "don't take any of their shit, but also do exactly what they say." isn't the type of cause many people can stand proudly behind.

And, really, that's a pretty horrible argument. "Who cares that they're threatening people with violence? Just don't let them other you, what's the point?"

So exactly how remote and pointless does the offending action have to be to you before there's no point in defending it.  If the extremsists threatened violence against anyone who wanted to inject bananas with green food coloring while they're still on the tree, draw smiley faces on them, then harvest them and send them out to the stores with a sticker on them that says "Have a Nice Day!", would we feel the need to go and do all of that?

If extremists threatened violence against anyone who would dare stand on one foot on the 11th step of their own state capitol building and stare crosseyed in an eastward direction, while wearing a fedora, would we all rush to do that?  How inconsequential does the offending act have to be in the average person's day-to-day life before it isn't worth wasting time over?  Because this seems pretty low-priority on my list of things to worry about having the right to do.

Many Christians were horribly offended by Scorsese's The Last Temptation of Christ.  That movie has elements in it that clearly offend fundamentalist Christian sensibilities, and yet the movie is considered a classic (It's one of my personal favorite movies, in fact).  In a world like the one these extremists would like to live in, that movie would never have been made, and we would be deprived of a work of art.

They don't care why anyone wants to do it, whether it's a valid reason or not. All they care about is if they get their way or not.

[Dr. SeaWolf]

So exactly how remote and pointless does the offending action have to be to you before there's no point in defending it.  If the extremsists threatened violence against anyone who wanted to inject bananas with green food coloring while they're still on the tree, draw smiley faces on them, then harvest them and send them out to the stores with a sticker on them that says "Have a Nice Day!", would we feel the need to go and do all of that?

No, but that would be AWESOME.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

They don't care why anyone wants to do it, whether it's a valid reason or not. All they care about is if they get their way or not.

I assume you're referring to extremists getting their way here?

If so, in the exact same fashion, anybody who protests this doesn't care why they DON'T want you to draw Mohammed, whether it's a valid reason or not.  All the protestors care about is if they get their way or not.

[bosk1]

Sorry, ehra, but I'm still firmly of the thinking that the only message you are sending is, "I can be a jerk, so I will."

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

So exactly how remote and pointless does the offending action have to be to you before there's no point in defending it.  If the extremsists threatened violence against anyone who wanted to inject bananas with green food coloring while they're still on the tree, draw smiley faces on them, then harvest them and send them out to the stores with a sticker on them that says "Have a Nice Day!", would we feel the need to go and do all of that?

No, but that would be AWESOME.

Damn straight it would be.  Even more so, if the girl in my avatar was wearing a headdress of them, like the Chiquita Girl.