Mike Portnoy...truly a fan in a band member's shoes.

[yeshaberto]

Isn't it interesting that one of the nicest and most fan-oriented guys in the biz ended up writing a song like "Never Enough?"  What does that say about the fan base (in general, not necessarily DTF)? 

Well, since it's not really about the fan base (at least, not the fan base as a whole), not much, actually.

Yeah, I guess the song was probably more about specific incidents, rather than a general comment, although I guess it was general enough to be released on an album, where it could possibly be misconstrued.  I was really more interested, anyway, in pointing out the irony of someone so dedicated to the fans ending up writing a song like that; I just didn't phrase it well.

hypothetically, though, the more you care the more it hurts when those you are devoted to are unappreciative

[bosk1]

hypothetically, though, the more you care the more it hurts when those you are devoted to are unappreciative

Very true.  And sometimes people don't take the time to actually consider that Mike Portnoy is genuinely hurt by some of the unfair criticism he receives.  I understand the argument that "if you are a public figure, you shouldn't be overly sensitive about people criticising your work that you put out in the public domain."  But to me, whether he should be sensitive to it isn't really the point.  The point is that he is.  And since I am a fan of Mike Portnoy and various projects of his, including Dream Theater, to which this site is primarily dedicated, I continue to want to run this place as if it is, in a sense, Mike's house.  As I told Mike when I met him, it is sometimes really difficult to perfectly strike the balance between allowing peole to constructively and respectfully voice criticism and voice their opinions when they don't like something on one hand, while also keeping the overall tone of this site as a positive reflection on the band that promotes and doesn't detract from DT's image on the other hand.  I'm sure I often fail on one side or the other of that balance.  But it is my hope that this place is seen by the band and the fans alike as something positive that rightfully expresses appreciation for the things Samsara pointed out in his initial post in the thread.

[yeshaberto]

I would think that one of the key distinctions in finding that balance is between criticizing someone for their work and maligning someone's motives.  no one likes to be criticized, but if it is constructive it can be used to become better.  too often, though, we judge people's motives, which in the case of someone like MP, that can't be used constructively

[King Postwhore]

If a band lasts as long as DT has, it's inevitable that a band changes it's sound and it's fanbase will complain because they like a certain sound or style.  I personally like when a band doesn't, from album to album, sound the same.  Some people just don't like change.  In the end, mike and his bandmates please themselves first and hope we go along for the ride.

[Darkes7]

In the end, mike and his bandmates please themselves first and hope we go along for the ride.

I think that's really the only way to make music evolve and actually keep it good. If bands listened to their fanbase in key things such as music direction, it would never be good, especially that not everyone expresses their opinion. Look at DT, if the band e.g. tried to follow all internet boards and listen to all opinions they hear elsewhere and wanted to make an album based on that, we would get Images & Words Part II. And then III. And then IV... you get the idea.

[ddtonfire]

If a band lasts as long as DT has, it's inevitable that a band changes it's sound and it's fanbase will complain because they like a certain sound or style.  I personally like when a band doesn't, from album to album, sound the same.  Some people just don't like change.  In the end, mike and his bandmates please themselves first and hope we go along for the ride.

And if they don't change, the other half will complain that the band is too safe, sterile, and can't explore other possibilities. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[King Postwhore]

If a band lasts as long as DT has, it's inevitable that a band changes it's sound and it's fanbase will complain because they like a certain sound or style.  I personally like when a band doesn't, from album to album, sound the same.  Some people just don't like change.  In the end, mike and his bandmates please themselves first and hope we go along for the ride.

And if they don't change, the other half will complain that the band is too safe, sterile, and can't explore other possibilities. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

like AC/DC.  Nothing wrong about their music.  They just don't inspire me.  Good for parties and drinking.

[AwakeFromOctavarium]

If a band lasts as long as DT has, it's inevitable that a band changes it's sound and it's fanbase will complain because they like a certain sound or style.  I personally like when a band doesn't, from album to album, sound the same.  Some people just don't like change.  In the end, mike and his bandmates please themselves first and hope we go along for the ride.

And if they don't change, the other half will complain that the band is too safe, sterile, and can't explore other possibilities. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Besides, even though we are the ones who support them, I don't think they should be too pressured by fan criticism and demands. It's not like we are the ones who created the band to play for us.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

If a band lasts as long as DT has, it's inevitable that a band changes it's sound and it's fanbase will complain because they like a certain sound or style.  I personally like when a band doesn't, from album to album, sound the same.  Some people just don't like change.  In the end, mike and his bandmates please themselves first and hope we go along for the ride.

And they gain new fans and admiration on the process. I recall, when Systematic Chaos was released, the harsh criticism it got, but on the other hand that album allowed a relationsip of more casual metal fans with PRogressive Metal. Lots of people I know love that album and got interested on DT thanks to it.

[Perpetual Change]

Gotta say, I spent all 3 hrs of the Transatlantic concert about 3 ft away from Mike Portnoy.  Watching him play drums last night told me a lot more about his personality than every interview with him and message board post I've ever read.  Gotta say, he really does seem to be one of the coolest guys in the business.

[ddtonfire]

MP crowd surf:
https://twitpic.com/1iq7fv

[Birch Boy]

[Chico]

Fuck him,he left the band. And the band excelled

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Fuck him,he left the band. And the band excelled

Really? You needed to revive this thread to say that?

[Chico]

YES

[lateralus88]

Fuck him,he left the band. And the band excelled

inb4 the ban

[livehard]

Fuck him,he left the band. And the band excelled

inb4 the ban

How is that bannable material? The mods would have to be real nazis to ban for that.

I honestly think that he really did a lot of those things for the fans jsut so that he could advertise how much of a workaholic he was and how much people owed him (see "Never Enough").

[lateralus88]

Fuck him,he left the band. And the band excelled

inb4 the ban

How is that bannable material? The mods would have to be real nazis to ban for that.

You are so cute. There are a good number of reasons. Read the rules.

[livehard]

hypothetically, though, the more you care the more it hurts when those you are devoted to are unappreciative

Very true.  And sometimes people don't take the time to actually consider that Mike Portnoy is genuinely hurt by some of the unfair criticism he receives.  I understand the argument that "if you are a public figure, you shouldn't be overly sensitive about people criticising your work that you put out in the public domain."  But to me, whether he should be sensitive to it isn't really the point.  The point is that he is.  And since I am a fan of Mike Portnoy and various projects of his, including Dream Theater, to which this site is primarily dedicated, I continue to want to run this place as if it is, in a sense, Mike's house.  As I told Mike when I met him, it is sometimes really difficult to perfectly strike the balance between allowing peole to constructively and respectfully voice criticism and voice their opinions when they don't like something on one hand, while also keeping the overall tone of this site as a positive reflection on the band that promotes and doesn't detract from DT's image on the other hand.  I'm sure I often fail on one side or the other of that balance.  But it is my hope that this place is seen by the band and the fans alike as something positive that rightfully expresses appreciation for the things Samsara pointed out in his initial post in the thread.

I think it is the fans that are/were being underapreciated by Portnoy.  We are some of the most loyal fans in music in my opnion.  Its because of our appreciation for music and real musical talent that allows such a non-mainstream band to be so successful. I don't think that MP had it that tough at all. 

Also, I dont understand why we can't just have honest discourse about our feelings about him wihtout having to try to have some sort of balance or equity?  As long as poeple arent being stupid or blatently vulgar, why can't we articulate how we really feel about him as good/bad as it is.

I may be in the minority, but I really think it is him that should have been counting his blessings when he was with DT and should have been more thankful for us that do absolutely so much to allow this band to keep making music.

[livehard]

Fuck him,he left the band. And the band excelled

inb4 the ban

How is that bannable material? The mods would have to be real nazis to ban for that.

You are so cute. There are a good number of reasons. Read the rules.

I have.  He wasnt insulting or bashing him, he said "fuck him" like, forget him.  It was a suggestion as to how DT forget about him,  not "fuck you mike portnoy"...

[lateralus88]

Fuck him,he left the band. And the band excelled

inb4 the ban

How is that bannable material? The mods would have to be real nazis to ban for that.

You are so cute. There are a good number of reasons. Read the rules.

I have.  He wasnt insulting or bashing him, he said "fuck him" like, forget him.  It was a suggestion as to how DT forget about him,  not "fuck you mike portnoy"...

Yeah but it's enough of a blatant comment to come off as rude and unnecessary. That's all I'm pointing out. 

[Chico]

Who gives a flying fuck, I posted a legitimate thread and it got locked for no reason.

[livehard]

Oh dont worry Im totally chill, Im not the one saying that warrants a bad as per the forum rules.  I just dont think its rude to say "fuck him". 

A little analogy: I dont think that its rude when someone tells a guy "dude fuck your ex girlfriend, forget about her".  He's not insulting the girlfriend., he's just giving a suggestion about the guy's future behavior with respect to his ex girlfriend.

[hefdaddy42]

Fuck him,he left the band. And the band excelled

inb4 the ban

How is that bannable material? The mods would have to be real nazis to ban for that.

You are so cute. There are a good number of reasons. Read the rules.

I have.  He wasnt insulting or bashing him, he said "fuck him" like, forget him.  It was a suggestion as to how DT forget about him,  not "fuck you mike portnoy"...

How is "fuck him" not like "fuck you"?  If you don't see what's wrong with that, then this may not be the best forum for you.

[livehard]

Fuck him,he left the band. And the band excelled

inb4 the ban

How is that bannable material? The mods would have to be real nazis to ban for that.

You are so cute. There are a good number of reasons. Read the rules.

I have.  He wasnt insulting or bashing him, he said "fuck him" like, forget him.  It was a suggestion as to how DT forget about him,  not "fuck you mike portnoy"...

How is "fuck him" not like "fuck you"?  If you don't see what's wrong with that, then this may not be the best forum for you.

Fuck him = forget MP, we dont need him.  This is an opinion.

Fuck you = insult to the MP, doesnt mean anything but to hurt the person

[LCArenas]

Really surprised on how the general opinion of this community regarding MP has changed in One year and a Half.

[Adami]

I think you're misinterpreting what that phrase actually means and the tone he typed it in.

[livehard]

I think you're misinterpreting what that phrase actually means and the tone he typed it in.

What does the phrase mean? you disagree with my contention that its an opinion on whether DT should have MP back?

The tone? We're adults, I think we can all deal with the word fuck.

[Adami]

It doesn't mean forget him.


It's a harsher way of saying "Screw him". Which is no different than saying "Screw you". No clue why you're defending it to this extent.

[dongringo]

Never been a fan of MP. While the other guys have always been humble about their accompolishments, MP has been nothing more than an attention seeker, on and off the albums and in concert. It's called egotistical. Mike Mangini fits in with the overall humility of the band. All is right with DT now.

[livehard]

It doesn't mean forget him.


It's a harsher way of saying "Screw him". Which is no different than saying "Screw you". No clue why you're defending it to this extent.

What extent? I dont think Im reaching here.  I just dont think your interpretation is right so therefore Ill say it.  thats all it is. I just think that when someone says "fuck it" it usually means no worries, or forget about it.  When you say fuck you its different, its an insult to the person.  He wasn't insulting him, he was just saying we dont need him.

[Adami]

It can mean that sure. But given everything else the guy said, it's VERY logical to assume it was an insult.

[MasterShakezula]

I can understand why this dude would feel that way about Mike (I don't feel his way; I'm totally cool with Mike doing whatever.  He's his own man.), but the way he expressed his negative emotions was unacceptable, both in general, and by this forum's rules. 

[livehard]

Agree to disagree I guess.

Than I'll say it: fuck MP.  DT doesn't need em, I don't like him, and we're all better off w/o him,

[lateralus88]