Flower Kings Official Thread

[HOF]

There is definitely some magic missing in recent TFK albums. The stretch from TFK->BITWOA->Retropolis->SWA->FP->SR->TR->UtF is basically unmatched by any other prog band or artist, especially the pre-Jonas run of albums, much as I enjoy Jonas' contributions when he joined.

It just goes to show you that songs are almost always more important than the players (when the difference in the latter is not significant).  Jonas is a beast of a bass player, yet doesn't play on any of the first four TFK albums, which are all among their best, IMO.  And Zoltan has been by far their best drummer, yet doesn't play on any of what I consider the best TFK records.  Heck, the drummer who played on Paradox Hotel is probably the least best one they've had, yet I think that is their best album.  Songwriting is where it's at. 

I think part of what makes those early TFK albums special is the unique production style. Just the way the drums sounded, the kind of trebly guitar tones, the mix of the keyboard sounds. Those two Roine solo albums have it as well. Kind of hard to explain, but the production started to shift with The Rainmaker, I think, to a warmer and more modern style of production.

[KevShmev]

I think part of what makes those early TFK albums special is the unique production style. Just the way the drums sounded, the kind of trebly guitar tones, the mix of the keyboard sounds. Those two Roine solo albums have it as well. Kind of hard to explain, but the production started to shift with The Rainmaker, I think, to a warmer and more modern style of production.

I think The Rainmaker is the only TFK album where I have an issue with the production (that one is a bit too dry; the melodies don't feel as lush and in your face).  I actually think the albums with Zoltan on drums tend to be the best sounding as something about his style just adds a groove and deepness to the overall sound that is just really bad ass.  Adam and Eve and The Sum of No Evil both sound incredible, and I feel the former is a highly underrated record.

[The Letter M]

I think part of what makes those early TFK albums special is the unique production style. Just the way the drums sounded, the kind of trebly guitar tones, the mix of the keyboard sounds. Those two Roine solo albums have it as well. Kind of hard to explain, but the production started to shift with The Rainmaker, I think, to a warmer and more modern style of production.

I think The Rainmaker is the only TFK album where I have an issue with the production (that one is a bit too dry; the melodies don't feel as lush and in your face).  I actually think the albums with Zoltan on drums tend to be the best sounding as something about his style just adds a groove and deepness to the overall sound that is just really bad ass.  Adam and Eve and The Sum of No Evil both sound incredible, and I feel the former is a highly underrated record.

I will agree, UTF, A&E, and TSONE all sound so good from what I can recall, especially TSONE. I remember when that came out and feeling very impressed by the sound of the album. Regarding The Rainmaker, I think my issues with the album is that the music just isn't as interesting as the albums that surround it, and it kind of just gets lost in the mix of their discography. It's not an awful album by any means, but it's just simple enjoyable enough for me. Same with Adam & Eve and Banks Of Eden for me, though I've slowly warmed up to The Rainmaker over the years. "Last Minute On Earth" is a solid opener IMO, and "Serious Dreamers" is unique as an album closer for TFK. "City Of Angels" is also an underrated epic, and has a very early-TFK sort of feel to it. I may have to revisit this album as a whole sometime soon!

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

I think some of you guys vastly underrate Banks of Eden, which I think is their best post-Paradox Hotel album.  Numbers has not one, not two, but three out-of-this-world awesome guitar solos.  Tremendous record.  Five songs, all major winners.  And the bonus tracks are all quite good as well.

[DTA]

I think some of you guys vastly underrate Banks of Eden, which I think is their best post-Paradox Hotel album.  Numbers has not one, not two, but three out-of-this-world awesome guitar solos.  Tremendous record.  Five songs, all major winners.  And the bonus tracks are all quite good as well.

I thought it was a great comeback after their post TSONE hiatus. It felt like a rejuvenated TFK again with their best epic since the Adam & Eve duo and a supporting cast of songs that all work well. The upbeat vibe of For The Love of Gold was something I really wanted to hear from again (and still do). And yeah, the bonus tracks are all solid too. I'm a huge fan of Desolation Rose and I think that one ranks slightly higher for me overall, but Banks of Eden is in no way an inferior album.

[Zydar]

I think some of you guys vastly underrate Banks of Eden, which I think is their best post-Paradox Hotel album.  Numbers has not one, not two, but three out-of-this-world awesome guitar solos.  Tremendous record.  Five songs, all major winners.  And the bonus tracks are all quite good as well.

Fireghosts is a great song, and too good to be just a bonus track. It's actually one of my favourite TFK songs ever. I really like Going Up too.

[DTA]

I think some of you guys vastly underrate Banks of Eden, which I think is their best post-Paradox Hotel album.  Numbers has not one, not two, but three out-of-this-world awesome guitar solos.  Tremendous record.  Five songs, all major winners.  And the bonus tracks are all quite good as well.

Fireghosts is a great song, and too good to be just a bonus track. It's actually one of my favourite TFK songs ever. I really like Going Up too.

Four b-sides on a five-song album always felt a bit odd to me. I think they could've worked Fireghosts and Going Up into the main album and had a more substantial main album as a result.

[The Letter M]

I think some of you guys vastly underrate Banks of Eden, which I think is their best post-Paradox Hotel album.  Numbers has not one, not two, but three out-of-this-world awesome guitar solos.  Tremendous record.  Five songs, all major winners.  And the bonus tracks are all quite good as well.

Fireghosts is a great song, and too good to be just a bonus track. It's actually one of my favourite TFK songs ever. I really like Going Up too.

Four b-sides on a five-song album always felt a bit odd to me. I think they could've worked Fireghosts and Going Up into the main album and had a more substantial main album as a result.

Yeah, especially considering that all 9 songs could fit into one CD anyway. I've always listened to it with a re-done tracklist that works in all 9 songs into the running order.
Numbers
Illuminati
For The Love Of Gold
LoLines
Pandemonium
Fireghosts
For Those About To Drown
Going Up
Rising The Imperial

Basically, I put the 4 bonus tracks between the 5 main album songs, all still in their original order. I will say, the bonus tracks quite decent on this one. I know I seem like I give this one some negative views, but it's not really all that bad. I just don't reach for it very often if I'm looking to itch a TFK-scratch.

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

I think some of you guys vastly underrate Banks of Eden, which I think is their best post-Paradox Hotel album.  Numbers has not one, not two, but three out-of-this-world awesome guitar solos.  Tremendous record.  Five songs, all major winners.  And the bonus tracks are all quite good as well.

Fireghosts is a great song, and too good to be just a bonus track. It's actually one of my favourite TFK songs ever. I really like Going Up too.

Four b-sides on a five-song album always felt a bit odd to me. I think they could've worked Fireghosts and Going Up into the main album and had a more substantial main album as a result.

Nah, the bonus tracks are those for a reason; they do not really fit in with the main record. And I am not a fan of "hey, we have more songs, so let's throw them all on the main record!"  Bands structure albums certain ways for a reason, and I feel that Banks of Eden is just fine as a 5-song record. 

[The Letter M]

Tomas Bodin has shared new music on his YouTube page!
https://youtu.be/D1USttsqxFo

-Marc.

[HOF]

New TFK song/video out today. “A Million Stars.”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k0RiSF1Lwac

Mellow, but I quite like it. 

[The Letter M]

New TFK song/video out today. “A Million Stars.”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k0RiSF1Lwac

Mellow, but I quite like it.

That was mellow but very good. Reminded me a lot of early TFK, especially with Michael Stolt on bass. Also interesting to note, this song is one of 3 songs over 7 minutes long on the album.

-Marc.

[darkshade]

Remind me, is Jonas sharing bass duties with Michael Stolt on the new album?

[The Letter M]

Remind me, is Jonas sharing bass duties with Michael Stolt on the new album?

Yes, both Jonas and Michael appear on the new album playing bass, but for their upcoming tour, it'll just be Michael (which is an excuse to play a bunch of material from their first four albums).

-Marc.

[Fritzinger]

New TFK song/video out today. “A Million Stars.”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k0RiSF1Lwac

Mellow, but I quite like it.

That was mellow but very good. Reminded me a lot of early TFK, especially with Michael Stolt on bass. Also interesting to note, this song is one of 3 songs over 7 minutes long on the album.

-Marc.

I fell asleep to that song earlier too    Maybe the guys need a critical producer in their ranks? The ideas of this song could have made a decent 3-minute track, but in my opinion the material just isn't enough for 7 minutes. Also, the virtuosic rhythmic foundation of Jonas Reingold is missing here, so that almost only sweet goo is left. I found Islands to be the band's best album since The Sum Of No Evil (which again is grossly underrated IMO, with the terrific Csörcz/Reingold rhythm section), but this just makes me roll my eyes. Add to that this cheap video... I sound very bitter, I'm sorry. The truth is, this song is not bad in my opinion. But surely this can't be all the man who composed Silent Inferno, Circus Brimstone and Of Monsters & Men has to say? The only bright spots for me: the second part of the song sounds a bit like the mellow part in Yes' Awaken and has a touch of Pink Floyd and the drums are finally a bit louder in the mix.

[HOF]

New TFK song/video out today. “A Million Stars.”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k0RiSF1Lwac

Mellow, but I quite like it.

That was mellow but very good. Reminded me a lot of early TFK, especially with Michael Stolt on bass. Also interesting to note, this song is one of 3 songs over 7 minutes long on the album.

-Marc.

I fell asleep to that song earlier too    Maybe the guys need a critical producer in their ranks? The ideas of this song could have made a decent 3-minute track, but in my opinion the material just isn't enough for 7 minutes. Also, the virtuosic rhythmic foundation of Jonas Reingold is missing here, so that almost only sweet goo is left. I found Islands to be the band's best album since The Sum Of No Evil (which again is grossly underrated IMO, with the terrific Csörcz/Reingold rhythm section), but this just makes me roll my eyes. Add to that this cheap video... I sound very bitter, I'm sorry. The truth is, this song is not bad in my opinion. But surely this can't be all the man who composed Silent Inferno, Circus Brimstone and Of Monsters & Men has to say? The only bright spots for me: the second part of the song sounds a bit like the mellow part in Yes' Awaken and has a touch of Pink Floyd and the drums are finally a bit louder in the mix.

I kind of feel like at their age, mellow is the way to go, especially vocally.

[DTwwbwMP]

New TFK song/video out today. “A Million Stars.”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k0RiSF1Lwac

Mellow, but I quite like it.

WAYYYY too mellow for my FK taste.

[KevShmev]

Very nice song.  I dig it.  Roine doing most of the lead vocals is always a good thing.

I fell asleep to that song earlier too    Maybe the guys need a critical producer in their ranks? The ideas of this song could have made a decent 3-minute track, but in my opinion the material just isn't enough for 7 minutes. Also, the virtuosic rhythmic foundation of Jonas Reingold is missing here, so that almost only sweet goo is left. I found Islands to be the band's best album since The Sum Of No Evil (which again is grossly underrated IMO, with the terrific Csörcz/Reingold rhythm section), but this just makes me roll my eyes. Add to that this cheap video... I sound very bitter, I'm sorry. The truth is, this song is not bad in my opinion. But surely this can't be all the man who composed Silent Inferno, Circus Brimstone and Of Monsters & Men has to say? The only bright spots for me: the second part of the song sounds a bit like the mellow part in Yes' Awaken and has a touch of Pink Floyd and the drums are finally a bit louder in the mix.

If this were the only song on the album, that might be a valid point, but since there are many other songs on the album, it is not.

[HOF]

Very nice song.  I dig it.  Roine doing most of the lead vocals is always a good thing.

I fell asleep to that song earlier too    Maybe the guys need a critical producer in their ranks? The ideas of this song could have made a decent 3-minute track, but in my opinion the material just isn't enough for 7 minutes. Also, the virtuosic rhythmic foundation of Jonas Reingold is missing here, so that almost only sweet goo is left. I found Islands to be the band's best album since The Sum Of No Evil (which again is grossly underrated IMO, with the terrific Csörcz/Reingold rhythm section), but this just makes me roll my eyes. Add to that this cheap video... I sound very bitter, I'm sorry. The truth is, this song is not bad in my opinion. But surely this can't be all the man who composed Silent Inferno, Circus Brimstone and Of Monsters & Men has to say? The only bright spots for me: the second part of the song sounds a bit like the mellow part in Yes' Awaken and has a touch of Pink Floyd and the drums are finally a bit louder in the mix.

If this were the only song on the album, that might be a valid point, but since there are many other songs on the album, it is not.

It's also the same man who composed songs like Rhythm of the Sea, Poor Mr. Rain's Ordinary Guitar, and World Without a Heart, so it's not like mellow isn't usually part of the repertoire.

[KevShmev]

It's also the same man who composed songs like Rhythm of the Sea, Poor Mr. Rain's Ordinary Guitar, and World Without a Heart, so it's not like mellow isn't usually part of the repertoire.

Yep.  My favorite TFK album, Paradox Hotel, has quite a few mellow tunes, most of which are just terrific.  Variety is the spice of life, and while super prog is obviously the biggest part of the band's DNA, their albums are often so good because of the different stuff we get on them.

[darkshade]

Haven't listened, but I'll take a mellower direction over Neal Morse and Friends recreating The Light or All Of The Above for the 30th time.

I love Neal's music, but it's true ^

I felt Roine's contributions to the last Transatlantic album were more creative than Neal's, not to mention Forevermore (mostly Roine's vision) is vastly superior to TBOL (Neal's vision) (imo)

I have to give credit to TFK for not trying to recreate the glory of their 90s and early 00's output. Each album of theirs is different than what came before, some more so than others. A TFK album can be filled with all kinds of goodies that the other albums don't have, and can be real growers with time. With Neal, it's consistent, but his music offer few surprises unless there are new/different players like with NMB. There is an evolution in the TFK discography that just isn't there in the Neal Morse discography.

[The Letter M]

So I'm sitting here listening to "Circus Brimstone", as performed by Circus Brimstone on their one-and-only album Circus Brimstone LIVE - Brim Stoned In Europe, and it got me wondering what every TFK drummer has done within and around the TFK family, so out of curiosity, here's a list of what each of the major TFK drummers/percussionists have done and released with TFK and TFK members:

Hasse Bruniusson:
TFK - Back In The World Of Adventures, Retropolis, Stardust We Are, Flower Power, Space Revolver, Fan Club CD 2000, The Rainmaker, Unfold The Future, Meet The Flower Kings, Adam & Eve, Paradox Hotel, The Sum Of No Evil
Roine Stolt - The Flower King
Karmakanic - Wheel Of Life (guest on 1 track)
Tomas Bodin - An Ordinary Night In My Ordinary Life, Sonic Boulevard
Hasse Bruniusson - Flying Food Circus

Jaime Salazar:
TFK - Back In The World Of Adventures, Retropolis, Stardust We Are, Edition Limitee Quebec 1998, Flower Power, Space Revolver, Fan Club CD 2000, Alive On Planet Earth, The Rainmaker
Roine Stolt - The Flower King, Hydrophonia
Karmakanic - Entering The Spectra
Tomas Bodin - An Ordinary Night In My Ordinary Life
The Tangent - A Place In The Queue, Going Off On One, Not As Good As The Book
Opus Atlantic - Opus Atlantic

Zoltan Csorsz:
TFK - Unfold The Future, Live In New York - Official Bootleg, Meet The Flower Kings, BetchaWannaDanceStoopid!!, Adam & Eve, The Sum Of No Evil
Karmakanic - Entering The Spectra, Wheel Of Life, Who's The Boss In The Factory
Tomas Bodin - Pinup Guru, Sonic Boulevard
The Tangent - The Music That Died Alone, The World That We Drive Through, Pyramids And Stars
3rd World Electric - Kilimanjaro Secret Brew
Agents Of Mercy - The Fading Ghosts Of Twilight

Marcus Liliequist:
TFK - Fanclub CD 2005 - Harvest, Paradox Hotel, Carpe Diem, Instant Delivery
Roine Stolt - Wall Street Voodoo
Karmakanic - In A Perfect World
Tomas Bodin - I AM, You Are (under the band name Eggs & Dogs)

Felix Lehrmann:
TFK - Banks Of Eden, Desolation Rose
Anderson / Stolt - Invention Of Knowledge

Mirko DeMaio:
TFK - Waiting For Miracles, Islands, By Royal Decree (forthcoming)

There have been other drummers who have shared kit duties with various TFK family members but these are the six that have appeared on actual TFK albums. Looking back, I forgot just how much Jaime played with his fellow band members outside of TFK, same with Zoltan. I do remember that Marcus was being utilized before and after his one studio album, Paradox Hotel, as Roine's WSV album and Tomas' I AM both came out before Paradox Hotel. I had also forgotten that Felix drummed on the Anderson / Stolt album (which I haven't really spun in quite some time).

I also decided to throw in Bruniusson because, while he mostly does non-drumkit percussion, he has played actual drumkit for some songs in the TFK catalog, and his percussive sounds definitely add a lot to the over-all sound of the band, especially in their earlier days. You can really feel his absence in their live recordings when he isn't there, and when he is, like on Meet The Flower Kings, he adds so much to the layers of percussion in their music.

Which of these percussionists/drummers are your favorite? Who has your favorite performance OUTSIDE of The Flower Kings? For me, Marcus on Wall Street Voodoo is absolutely fantastic, but Zoltan's work on the early Tangent albums is nothing short of expert-level, and probably better than his stuff in TFK.

-Marc.

[DTA]

I think Ulf & Bruniusson were key elements contributing to the greatness of the early FK sound and their absence on later albums is very obvious to my ears. Bruniusson's bombastic percussion in some of the more busy instrumental sections was always such an exciting layer to their sound.

Jaime was my favorite. To me, the magic of TFK sort of ended once they adopted a jazzier sound, and I'm sure it was the addition of Zoltan that pushed them harder in that direction. Zoltan's an outstanding drummer, but I like the more hard-rock/metal feel Jaime had that contrasted nicely with the pure prog-rock sound from The Flower King through Space Revolver. I will agree that Marcus did a fantastic job on Wall Street Voodoo, but Jaime's performances on Hydrophonia and An Ordinary Night... are just perfect to my ears. I still need to check out Karmakanic

[The Letter M]

I think Ulf & Bruniusson were key elements contributing to the greatness of the early FK sound and their absence on later albums is very obvious to my ears. Bruniusson's bombastic percussion in some of the more busy instrumental sections was always such an exciting layer to their sound.

Jaime was my favorite. To me, the magic of TFK sort of ended once they adopted a jazzier sound, and I'm sure it was the addition of Zoltan that pushed them hard that direction. Zoltan's an outstanding drummer, but I like the more hard-rock/metal feel Jaime had that contrasted nicely with the pure prog-rock sound from The Flower King through Space Revolver. I will agree that Marcus did a fantastic job on Wall Street Voodoo, but Jaime's performances on Hydrophonia and An Ordinary Night... are just perfect to my ears. I still need to check out Karmakanic

I feel like Zoltan fits in better with Karmakanic than The Flower Kings (though that isn't to say I don't enjoy his albums with TFK). When Jonas is leading the charge in his own band, I think he knew how to write for Zoltan and they worked off each other so well on the three albums he was on. My favorite is Who's The Boss In The Factory, but you can't go wrong checking out any of them. I'd say of their five albums, In A Perfect World is their weakest, but they got better with the follow-up, DOT. I'd say check them out in chronological order. Jaime is the main drummer on their debut, Entering The Spectra, but Zoltan plays on the 12-minute title track.

-Marc.

[Fritzinger]

I've mentioned several times that Zoltan is my favorite TFK drummer, but I also highly appreciate Felix Lehrmann. He did a great job on the few TFK albums (and the one by A&S), but was kinda underutilized on those recordings in my opinion. He reveals how great a drummer he is on different occasions. For example, he frequently plays with my former teacher, Martin Miller:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFK97GUkp-s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhJEcRx6CXc&t=926s

Here, you can also hear what my problem with Roine's drum mixes is. In this recording, Felix is loud, his snare has punch and his cymbals are crystal clear. Not so much on Banks of Eden, Desolation and Invention.

[DTA]

Felix is excellent and his playing on Banks/Rose is quite creative and exciting. I think both him and Marcus were a good balance between the relatively simplistic style of Jaime and the super-jazz style of Zoltan, and overall, I think Felix was probably the most versatile of their drummers.

On the drum sound, Roine's mixes have bugged me since The Rainmaker. Where the music used to have this bright, clear sheen on it, everything post-Rainmaker kind of feels slightly muffled and subdued.

[HOF]

Felix is excellent and his playing on Banks/Rose is quite creative and exciting. I think both him and Marcus were a good balance between the relatively simplistic style of Jaime and the super-jazz style of Zoltan, and overall, I think Felix was probably the most versatile of their drummers.

On the drum sound, Roine's mixes have bugged me since The Rainmaker. Where the music used to have this bright, clear sheen on it, everything post-Rainmaker kind of feels slightly muffled and subdued.

The mixes do seem to get more muffled as time goes on. The drums on Islands are so unusually muffled/distant sounding. The new tracks seem similar, though it's hard to say just from YouTube videos.

[Fritzinger]

Felix is excellent and his playing on Banks/Rose is quite creative and exciting. I think both him and Marcus were a good balance between the relatively simplistic style of Jaime and the super-jazz style of Zoltan, and overall, I think Felix was probably the most versatile of their drummers.

On the drum sound, Roine's mixes have bugged me since The Rainmaker. Where the music used to have this bright, clear sheen on it, everything post-Rainmaker kind of feels slightly muffled and subdued.

The mixes do seem to get more muffled as time goes on. The drums on Islands are so unusually muffled/distant sounding. The new tracks seem similar, though it's hard to say just from YouTube videos.

For some reason it sounds slightly better on my vinyl LP. Not sure why. Anyway, I listened to Islands again and I gotta say, this is one FINE album. I think there are some beautiful moments on there. Solaris, All I Need Is Love and Looking For Answers are my favorites. Solaris is one of the band's best songs since Tower ONE for me. The orchestral arrangements sound great (although I think they are coming out of Zach's keys) and the whole song has some epic character to it. I also have a soft spot for the Driving Home For Christmas-like Morning News. It just has some kind of calm beauty to it.

[HOF]

I enjoy Islands whenever I revisit it. Like you said, there is some nice, calming music on it. I do think that’s the band’s strong suit at this point. I think Islands would have been better served as a one disc effort, but I can just as easily listen to my alternate one disc version.

[The Letter M]

Regarding the calming nature of (most of) Islands, I think it suits the band perfectly, more so than the calming nature of latter-day Yes (from Open Your Eyes onward). There's also still some trademark TFK sounds coming from the band at this point, and it isn't all homogenous-sounding. The last two albums have been pretty good, which is why I'm looking forward to BRD in a little over a month from now.

-Marc.

[RoeDent]

Anyone else notice Roine's weird lyrical obsession with horses?

[Kyo]

Solaris is one of the band's best songs since Tower ONE for me.

But... there was just one album between Desolation Rose (the one with Tower One) and Islands. 

[Fritzinger]

Solaris is one of the band's best songs since Tower ONE for me.

But... there was just one album between Desolation Rose (the one with Tower One) and Islands. 

Oops, you're right  But in my opinion, Banks Of Eden didn't have better songs than these two either 

[HOF]

Anyone else notice Roine's weird lyrical obsession with horses?

Yeah, I’ve noticed it in a few places at least. There Is More To This World and Elaine are the first two to spring to mind, but I’m sure there are more.

[The Letter M]

Anyone else notice Roine's weird lyrical obsession with horses?

Yeah, I’ve noticed it in a few places at least. There Is More To This World and Elaine are the first two to spring to mind, but I’m sure there are more.

That, and blinders as well. He's used "blinders" in a couple of Transatlantic lyrics too. Are horses big in Sweden? Not that I mean are the horses themselves big, but rather, are they a big deal there? 

-Marc.