Flower Kings Official Thread

[darkshade]

I didn't know that either. That sucks! I will hold onto my CD copy of UtF

My copy of the album I bought 10+ years ago, however, is different than a digital download I had of UtF years and years ago before I bought the CD. The digital copy had a different mix, TTWSYF opened as a fade in, the song also had different instruments playing during a couple of sections, and it didn't have Too Late For Tomatos at the end, with TDP track ending with no cut into the next track, meaning it wasn't missing from my copy, as TLFT is a bonus track added to later versions. I'd love to hear the old version I used to have since I deleted it once I ripped the CD without cross examining the two versions, not realizing they were different at the time. Is my CD copy a re-issue/remaster? Anyone know the details surrounding this album in regards to remixes and remasters?

[Fritzinger]

I would say I was disappointed, not pissed, especially since he took out the evil guitar part from the original Devil's Playground, which is one of my favorite sections of the entire Unfold the Future record. But hey, I get it, it's Roine's music, his art, he can do what he wants with it, but as the consumer, that doesn't mean I have to plunk down my hard-earned cash for his revisionist history.

Oh I am pissed alright and no, I don't get it. It's not explained in the liner notes either. There, he just wrote the remixed few songs and remastered the rest.

[kirksnosehair]

Whoa, I did not know that! 


That's my favorite riff from that entire album!   


It's his music so that's his prerogative but I'm glad I still have the original. 


I have noticed that Roine's music in the last decade or so has been somewhat softer, less riff oriented and more oriented to the vocal melodies.  Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it's sort of changed the texture of TFK music and taken some of the edginess out and there are now fewer and fewer heavy-sounding riffs or sections.  One of the things that originally attracted me to The Flower Kings was the sharp contrasts in moods.  When the entire album is happy-sounding, major-key, vocal-melody-oriented it feels like it lost some of it's power.


I have to be honest, Islands is by far my least favorite album from TFK.  I have no interest in ever hearing it again and that's the first time that's ever happened with one of their albums.  I became a fan around the time of "The Rainmaker" (still one of my all-time favorites, probably because it was my first).  They were all over the map in terms of style back then and that was one of the best things about them.  Some songs were almost metal-ish at times but then the next song would be a beautiful piano ballad, followed by some weird mini-moog and hammond-soaked rock song, followed by a symphonic epic followed by a bluesy track and so on.  I'd love to see TFK bring back that kind of diversity on a single album.

[darkshade]

TFK were unstoppable until the first hiatus. They lost something after that, for sure. Not just riffs, but the complex arrangements, long epics, lots of twists and turns that are lacking in the newer material. I'd put any of the first 10 albums above the last 4. However, I think Islands has some good stuff, but it's a little bloated.

[HOF]

TFK were unstoppable until the first hiatus. They lost something after that, for sure. Not just riffs, but the complex arrangements, long epics, lots of twists and turns that are lacking in the newer material. I'd put any of the first 10 albums above the last 4. However, I think Islands has some good stuff, but it's a little bloated.

Aside from a few bits and pieces, I haven’t actually listened to any of the TFK albums between Unfold the Future and Islands, so I can’t really speak to the change in direction. I do really like a lot of the laid back atmosphere of Islands, but I agree it is a little too long and not their best sounding album production-wise. But there are several individual songs on it that I really enjoy.

[darkshade]

TFK were unstoppable until the first hiatus. They lost something after that, for sure. Not just riffs, but the complex arrangements, long epics, lots of twists and turns that are lacking in the newer material. I'd put any of the first 10 albums above the last 4. However, I think Islands has some good stuff, but it's a little bloated.

Aside from a few bits and pieces, I haven’t actually listened to any of the TFK albums between Unfold the Future and Islands, so I can’t really speak to the change in direction. I do really like a lot of the laid back atmosphere of Islands, but I agree it is a little too long and not their best sounding album production-wise. But there are several individual songs on it that I really enjoy.

If you really break it down, UtF was the last "great" TFK album, though TSONE is pretty great too. After UtF is when they started making less consistently great music IMO.

[KevShmev]

Considering I feel that Paradox Hotel is their best album, I cannot agree with that last post.

I am surprised of you aren't digging Waiting for Miracles more.  There is some killer stuff on there, that is similar in quality and feel to a lot of their older, classic material. 

Islands doesn't really have the major highs that most other TFK records do, but I think there are still a lot of really good songs there.  I would concede that it does get a bit bloated in the back half, and losing a few of those average tunes there could have made the album a bit better overall as a whole, but I still think it is quite good overall. Not up to the level of most of their other albums (with the exceptions of The Rainmaker and Desolation Rose, which are easily the two least best, IMO), no, but still a worthy addition.

[ariich]

Considering I feel that Paradox Hotel is their best album, I cannot agree with that last post.

Indeed.

Also, personally I find Sum of No Evil easily one of their weakest, whereas Banks of Eden is excellent.

[KevShmev]

Considering I feel that Paradox Hotel is their best album, I cannot agree with that last post.

Indeed.

Also, personally I find Sum of No Evil easily one of their weakest, whereas Banks of Eden is excellent.

I like The Sum of No Evil a lot more than I did before, although it would still be in my bottom 5.  Banks of Eden is definitely excellent, and a great bounce back record after the first hiatus.  All five songs are great (and the four bonus songs are great as well!). 

[Zydar]

As a new TFK listener I've barely given The Sum Of No Evil a spin yet. Maybe it's because it's full of these long epics, and I find myself much more drawn to their shorter stuff instead.

[The Letter M]

For the fans here who haven't really gotten into Waiting For Miracles and Islands, do you think the absence of Tomas Bodin contributes to your disinterest in the band's newest albums? I wonder if his writing and sounds helped contribute to some of the band's darker, heavier moments in their music, and without it, maybe Roine and company have focused on some of the lighter stuff that they're known for.

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

As a new TFK listener I've barely given The Sum Of No Evil a spin yet. Maybe it's because it's full of these long epics, and I find myself much more drawn to their shorter stuff instead.

It took me forever to really get into it, like well over 10 years.   It's one of those albums where nothing on it is close to being among their best songs, and it has their least best 20-minute plus song (good song, just the others are all better), but it's a nice listen from start to finish.  It helps that the mix is just fantastic.

[kirksnosehair]

heh, The Sum of No Evil is a top 3 TFK album for me.  It's one of those very, very rare albums from this band where I like every track on the album.  Banks of Eden and The Rainmaker are the only others where I listen to every track, the rest are a very, very mixed bag for me.  I skip about half of most of their albums.

[darkshade]

I stand by my statement that UTF was the last time they were consistent.

Since then, they've put out their worst stuff, some of their best stuff, and a lot of mediocre tunes that would never have existed on earlier albums. Moving towards more vocal driven music may have played a part in this.

Adam & Eve and Paradox Hotel are seen as some of their weakest of the era, especially A&E, but I think that one is good, it's just it's an album surrounded by even greater albums, and might be the weakest of the first 10 albums, but still stronger than a lot of recent material.

I like Paradox Hotel, I don't think it's their best or top 3, but I consider it one of their better albums. It's a TFK album with a reversed track order, (thus PARADOX Hotel) and I like that idea. I just think there are a few strange songs on there, and Monsters & Men is a sleeper epic for most who've heard it, including myself. It's a slight departure from where they were at the time, but the music was still interesting and captivating unlike some of the more recent material (which is the last 4 albums to me) which overall sounds like the band (or Rione) going through the motions and/or stretching out ideas from a dried up well.

TSONE was the band going back to their upbeat symphonic prog style, and I think it's one of their best albums. All killer no filler, just the meat of their usual double albums. Love Is The Only Answer is one of my favorite epic of theirs.

As I alluded to, the last four albums (five, if you include Manifesto of an Alchemist) are all hit or miss for me. Each album has some good stuff, and a lot of stuff that isn't very memorable to me. Now of course, this is TFK we're talking about. It took me years to "get" the band and their music, but I find that the better material from their later albums isn't as enjoyable as their older stuff that is more middle of the road, let alone their best pre-2008.

As for the change in keyboardists, I don't know if Bodin had something to do with any riffs or heaviness in the band. I do know that the change did not have as much to do with how good the last few albums are. The last album Tomas appeared on (Desolation Rose) is my least favorite TFK album, and I find Banks of Eden to not be as good as what came before either. I actually like the more recent stuff a bit more that those last two Bodin TFK albums. The band feels a little sterile on BoE and DR, whereas the more recent stuff feels more alive, like the old TFK I just think they're still in a transitional phase with the new members. Hopefully the next album will be their return to form type album.

[HOF]

I stand by my statement that UTF was the last time they were consistent.

Even Unfold The Future is pretty inconsistent in my view. There’s not a whole lot on the second disc that I’ve been able to latch onto.

[darkshade]

I stand by my statement that UTF was the last time they were consistent.

Even Unfold The Future is pretty inconsistent in my view. There’s not a whole lot on the second disc that I’ve been able to latch onto.

UTF is my favorite album of theirs, so I shall defend it.
The 2nd disc starts off with 3 pretty solid tunes, GIAB, FL, GOW. Great instrumental work, keys and guitar dominating.
RTD is alright, maybe weakest song on the album.
There's a call back to The Navigator (?) in Solitary Shell (?) and it's in a different key and it gives me chills every time I hear it when I listen to the album.
I think it's those two songs.
Chills down my spine is a good indicator of top, top music.
The Devil's Playground is a top TFK epic for me, it's got some heaviness, and structurally unique as far as TFK albums are concerned.

I also enjoy the little jazz excursions sprinkled throughout the album. I like jazz and improvisation. I like that TFK went ahead and did something like this, since they always had that jazz-fusion slant especially once Jonas joined the band, and this type of album had been almost teased on the previous album, The Rainmaker.

[KevShmev]

I actually think Disc 2 is much better than Disc 1.  Not only is Devil's Playground far better than The Truth..., which isn't great enough to support its length, but the second disc is just more consistent and the quality never wavers.  If I had to list my favorite 7-8 songs from this record, all of them would be from the second disc except for one (Silent Inferno).  I don't mind the jazzy instrumentals either, as they add a nice element on those rare occasions when I have four hours to listen to this record from start to finish.

[HOF]

I actually think Disc 2 is much better than Disc 1.  Not only is Devil's Playground far better than The Truth..., which isn't great enough to support its length, but the second disc is just more consistent and the quality never wavers.  If I had to list my favorite 7-8 songs from this record, all of them would be from the second disc except for one (Silent Inferno).  I don't mind the jazzy instrumentals either, as they add a nice element on those rare occasions when I have four hours to listen to this record from start to finish.

Huh, The Truth Will Set You Free is the most memorable track for me. I need to give this another listen, because I’ve only been able to get through both discs a few times.

[HOF]

I stand by my statement that UTF was the last time they were consistent.

Even Unfold The Future is pretty inconsistent in my view. There’s not a whole lot on the second disc that I’ve been able to latch onto.

UTF is my favorite album of theirs, so I shall defend it.
The 2nd disc starts off with 3 pretty solid tunes, GIAB, FL, GOW. Great instrumental work, keys and guitar dominating.
RTD is alright, maybe weakest song on the album.
There's a call back to The Navigator (?) in Solitary Shell (?) and it's in a different key and it gives me chills every time I hear it when I listen to the album.
I think it's those two songs.
Chills down my spine is a good indicator of top, top music.
The Devil's Playground is a top TFK epic for me, it's got some heaviness, and structurally unique as far as TFK albums are concerned.

I also enjoy the little jazz excursions sprinkled throughout the album. I like jazz and improvisation. I like that TFK went ahead and did something like this, since they always had that jazz-fusion slant especially once Jonas joined the band, and this type of album had been almost teased on the previous album, The Rainmaker.

I do think the production on this one is really good, and the performances from Jonas and Zoltan are really strong. Just haven’t been able to get into some of the songs to this point.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, Jonas crushes it on UTF, even moreso than many of the other albums on which he has played, and his playing in The Truth... is the best thing about that song, IMO.  He is totally channeling Chris Squire in that one. 

Back to The Truth..., some of this is my changing listening habits.  It used to be if I told 25 minutes to spare to listen to whatever I wanted, I would go for an epic of about that length.  Nowadays, I am much more likely to go for 4-6 short songs.  I have to be in the right mood to want to crank up a long epic and listen to it from start to finish, and as such, I tend to be more choosy with which ones I go for, and The Truth... is far down on the list.  Even if I isolate it to just TFK when it comes to "sidelong" epics, there is no chance I am going with The Truth... over the two I Am the Sun tracks, Love Supreme, Driver's Seat or Devil's Playground, Numbers or Stardust We Are.

Back to Zoltan, he is killer on all three records of which he was a part, and I don't think it's a coincidence that all three of those albums sound incredible.  It's like his style is conducive to bringing out the best of the band when it comes to the mix.

[darkshade]

Agreed on Jonas and Zoltan killing it on the 3 that Zoltan is on. Jonas was awesome from the moment he joined, and same with Zoltan. They're one of the best prog rhythm sections of all time IMO. They're a big reason I love all 3 of those TFK albums, plus the first 2 Karmakanic and first two Tangent albums and the one Bodin album I have with the two of them. I think Zoltan brings out the best in Jonas when they play together. TFK would be a different band in the 2010s/20s if Zoltan stayed on board after TSONE.

[HOF]

Yeah, Jonas crushes it on UTF, even moreso than many of the other albums on which he has played, and his playing in The Truth... is the best thing about that song, IMO.  He is totally channeling Chris Squire in that one. 

Back to The Truth..., some of this is my changing listening habits.  It used to be if I told 25 minutes to spare to listen to whatever I wanted, I would go for an epic of about that length.  Nowadays, I am much more likely to go for 4-6 short songs.  I have to be in the right mood to want to crank up a long epic and listen to it from start to finish, and as such, I tend to be more choosy with which ones I go for, and The Truth... is far down on the list.  Even if I isolate it to just TFK when it comes to "sidelong" epics, there is no chance I am going with The Truth... over the two I Am the Sun tracks, Love Supreme, Driver's Seat or Devil's Playground, Numbers or Stardust We Are.

Listening to this now, and it could have been cut off after about 16 minutes (after the main chorus comes in again aster the wonderful “straight to the heart” section) and been just fine. It’s mostly meandering after that though.

[HOF]

Gildenlow is just awful on Rollin' The Dice. 

[darkshade]

Gildenlow is just awful on Rollin' The Dice.

the only weak spot on the album IMO

[HOF]

Ah, yeah, the closing solo on Devil's Playground. Had forgotten about this. 

[KevShmev]

I don't mind Rollin' the Dice.  It's not a standout, but it's fine within the context of Disc 2.  Grand Old World, to me, is the major sleeper song from that one, and of course the 3-song run of Man Overboard, Solitary Shell and Devil's Playground is godly.

The current drummer seems fine, but I'd love it if they got Zoltan back. 

[darkshade]

I don't mind Rollin' the Dice.  It's not a standout, but it's fine within the context of Disc 2.  Grand Old World, to me, is the major sleeper song from that one, and of course the 3-song run of Man Overboard, Solitary Shell and Devil's Playground is godly.

The current drummer seems fine, but I'd love it if they got Zoltan back.

When you say sleeper, you mean boring, or like a sleeper hit?

[KevShmev]

A sleeper hit, as in it is one of the best songs from the album that ought to be talked about a lot more.

[HOF]

A sleeper hit, as in it is one of the best songs from the album that ought to be talked about a lot more.

I did enjoy that one listening through just now.

[DTA]

Grand Old World is cool to me because it's built around a theme from Truth. I'm not the biggest UTF fan but I like how they made little excursion songs that use a melody from the big epic. The magic of those earlier FK albums are the little instrumental interludes and connector songs that don't add much on their own but make it feel like a really cohesive whole.

[kirksnosehair]

heh, The Sum of No Evil is a top 3 TFK album for me.  It's one of those very, very rare albums from this band where I like every track on the album.  Banks of Eden and The Rainmaker are the only others where I listen to every track, the rest are a very, very mixed bag for me.  I skip about half of most of their albums.

Quoting myself to add that I also really love "Back In The World of Adventures" and rarely skip any tracks on that one. 

[kirksnosehair]

Yeah, Jonas crushes it on UTF, even moreso than many of the other albums on which he has played, and his playing in The Truth... is the best thing about that song, IMO.  He is totally channeling Chris Squire in that one. 

***Snipped*

Back to Zoltan, he is killer on all three records of which he was a part, and I don't think it's a coincidence that all three of those albums sound incredible.  It's like his style is conducive to bringing out the best of the band when it comes to the mix.

It's the combination of Zoltan's jazz-infused playing and Jonas's uncanny ability so sit so perfectly in the pocket with his bass lines.  He's flashy, but not in a gaudy way and he doesn't overplay really, but he's a very, very mobile kind of bassist.  His bass lines are melodic, not just thumping bottom end.  The only other guy in modern prog that plays like this -at least among the groups I listen to most often- is Dave Meros. 

[Fritzinger]

heh, The Sum of No Evil is a top 3 TFK album for me.  It's one of those very, very rare albums from this band where I like every track on the album.  Banks of Eden and The Rainmaker are the only others where I listen to every track, the rest are a very, very mixed bag for me.  I skip about half of most of their albums.

Quoting myself to add that I also really love "Back In The World of Adventures" and rarely skip any tracks on that one.

The Sum Of No Evil might be the only Flower Kings album where I never skip a single track.

[RoeDent]

Grand Old World is cool to me because it's built around a theme from Truth. I'm not the biggest UTF fan but I like how they made little excursion songs that use a melody from the big epic. The magic of those earlier FK albums are the little instrumental interludes and connector songs that don't add much on their own but make it feel like a really cohesive whole.

This. This is why the interludes on Stardust We Are are absolutely indispensible. They are vital for the flow of the album.

[KevShmev]

A sleeper hit, as in it is one of the best songs from the album that ought to be talked about a lot more.

I did enjoy that one listening through just now.

 

Grand Old World is cool to me because it's built around a theme from Truth. I'm not the biggest UTF fan but I like how they made little excursion songs that use a melody from the big epic. The magic of those earlier FK albums are the little instrumental interludes and connector songs that don't add much on their own but make it feel like a really cohesive whole.

Agreed.  The overall album experience is enhanced by those little interludes and connector songs that, like you said, don't really stand out on their own.  Key pieces of the greater whole, though.