Flower Kings Official Thread

[KevShmev]

I think one problem with The Rainmaker as well is the production.  It's a little muddy and flat, and not as bright as their albums normally are.  Nothing wrong with going for a different sound and vibe, but it's almost like the mixer wasn't quite sure how to capture the vibe for which they were going. 

See, I kind of think it’s got a nice warm, balanced sound, in contrast to the earlier albums and especially Space Revolver that had a tendency to be a little too shrill. But it was a departure from the sound of those albums for sure.

You could argue it has more low end than the early albums, which could be attributed to Jonas Reinghold's fat, meaty sound, which is very reminiscent of Chris Squire at times.  The original bass player did a good job on the first four albums, but he was never high in the mix or playing anything that really grabbed you.

[HOF]

Wasn’t that Roinne’s brother playing bass on the previous albums?

[KevShmev]

Wasn’t that Roinne’s brother playing bass on the previous albums?

Yes. 

[HOF]

Listening to The Rainmaker again. Even I’ve had a somewhat dim view of it at times in the past, but every time I play it I end up finding it’s just great prog rock with outstanding instrumental performances all around and a very strong production/mix. Just not sure why people are down on it.

[KevShmev]

Listening to The Rainmaker again. Even I’ve had a somewhat dim view of it at times in the past, but every time I play it I end up finding it’s just great prog rock with outstanding instrumental performances all around and a very strong production/mix. Just not sure why people are down on it.

My guess is, it was considered my most to be a massive step down when it was released, given how great the first five albums are.  I got into the band in the summer of 2000-ish (IIRC), so The Rainmaker was the first new album released after I became a big fan, and I was definitely majorly underwhelmed.  I liked it, but it definitely had that "this isn't nearly as good as everything else" stench to it.  The fact that they then followed up with an album (Unfold the Future) that was widely loved by the fanbase didn't help its cause either.

[RoeDent]

The Rainmaker was definitely one of the albums it took me the longest to get into. I really enjoy it now, but it did take a while to get there.

[DTA]

The Rainmaker was definitely less bright sounding, plus it was the first time that there was somewhat of a darker sound. Even the cover is bleak. But it's a great album that I always had a high opinion of, even though it will never be my favorite. I also think all of the shorter songs are pretty strong, and I love the ambient title track.

[Kyo]

As another part of my restoration projects I've been listening to a complete version of I Am the Sun (with both parts merged seemlessly) quite a lot this week. Clearly one of their best!

[KevShmev]

I also have a merged I Am the Sun (I got lucky when I merged them as I managed to get it exactly right; no way I could get that lucky again ), but I usually listen to them separately since I do think they work better as two songs the way they are on the album.  As a whole, it's definitely one of their best pieces of music ever, for sure.

It's funny that Roine feels that The Truth... is a song they usually need to play live (which he basically said in an interview last year) because when looking at all of their songs over 15 minutes (arbitrary number, I know), I will take every single one of them over The Truth Will Set You Free.

Stardust We Are...much better
Garden of Dreams (if we can cheat and call it one song, even though it's really 18 songs that comprise a suite)...much, much better
I Am the Sun...much, much better
Devil's Playground...better
Love Supreme...much better
Driver's Seat...better
Monsters and Men...probably better
Love Is the Only Answer...probably better
Numbers...better

[Kyo]

They should definitely do another "Meet the Flower Kings"-type live album that is nothing but epics. They now have plenty to choose from that haven't been on an official live release (at least not in their entirety).

[DTA]

It's funny that Roine feels that The Truth... is a song they usually need to play live (which he basically said in an interview last year) because when looking at all of their songs over 15 minutes (arbitrary number, I know), I will take every single one of them over The Truth Will Set You Free.

Stardust We Are...much better
Garden of Dreams (if we can cheat and call it one song, even though it's really 18 songs that comprise a suite)...much, much better
I Am the Sun...much, much better
Devil's Playground...better
Love Supreme...much better
Driver's Seat...better
Monsters and Men...probably better
Love Is the Only Answer...probably better
Numbers...better

I wouldn't say they're all better but I certainly never need to hear Truth live again. There's no reason why a 30 minute song should be a mainstay of any setlist. He's made a lot of bonehead decisions when it comes to setlists over the years.

I still can't figure out why I Am The Sun is never played in full, or why Garden is edited the way it is.

[KevShmev]

Not like the band ever comes anywhere close to me anyway (I've seen them once, in '06 in Chicago, which is 300 miles-ish from where I live), but I often find their set list choices to be a bit frustrating.  They have such a massive catalogue from which to choose, and so many great songs that have never gotten played, yet The Truth always takes up a big chunk in the live sets.  Ugh. 

However, I am still lucky since the one time I did see them, they played Ghost of the Red Cloud and Silent Sorrow (two of my favorites), as well as other favorites of mine like Psycedelic Postcard and World of Adventures.  Not to mention a lot of tunes from Paradox Hotel and the Roine solo tune The Flower King.  Was a great show.

[DTA]

Ghost and Silent Sorrow are favorites of mine too, so I'm extremely jealous. I wouldn't mind a setlist consisting entirely of songs under 10 minutes and no edits or medleys. I feel like they tour so infrequently that Roine feels a need to go back to the same "big" songs over and over again.

[HOF]

Listening to The Rainmaker again. Even I’ve had a somewhat dim view of it at times in the past, but every time I play it I end up finding it’s just great prog rock with outstanding instrumental performances all around and a very strong production/mix. Just not sure why people are down on it.

My guess is, it was considered my most to be a massive step down when it was released, given how great the first five albums are.  I got into the band in the summer of 2000-ish (IIRC), so The Rainmaker was the first new album released after I became a big fan, and I was definitely majorly underwhelmed.  I liked it, but it definitely had that "this isn't nearly as good as everything else" stench to it.  The fact that they then followed up with an album (Unfold the Future) that was widely loved by the fanbase didn't help its cause either.

Rainmaker was my first TFK album actually. I picked it up when it was their current release soon after I got into the first two Transatlantic albums. I always enjoyed it but I distinctly remember not liking it as much as TA or Spock’s Beard and TFK kind of went on the back burner for me after that. I did get Stardust a little while later and I had Silent Inferno from an Inside Out sampler that was included with another CD (I believe it was Spock’s Beard’s Feel Euphoria actually). I liked Silent Inferno, but I think I’ve mentioned before how it took me until the last year or so to really appreciate Stardust beyond a few standout tracks.

That said, I’ve only in the last two years or so gone back and picked up the rest of the pre-Rainmaker TFK albums (sans the ridiculously hard to find Back in the World of Adventures). So my view of it isn’t really colored by what came before it. I’ve also had Unfold The Future for about a year now and I’ve never been able to get into it outside of Silent Inferno. Hard to imagine that one overshadows The Rainmaker! But I really need to revisit it it I think.

The Rainmaker was definitely less bright sounding, plus it was the first time that there was somewhat of a darker sound. Even the cover is bleak. But it's a great album that I always had a high opinion of, even though it will never be my favorite. I also think all of the shorter songs are pretty strong, and I love the ambient title track.

I really like the darker, rainy day atmosphere about it. That’s a memory from when I first got it actually. I had this awful cold and was in bed for several days and there was this kind of tropical storm monsoon thing going on that week. So I spent a lot of time drifting in and out of sleep with The Rainmaker playing in there background, especially the title track and other shorter instrumental pieces. Also, it sounds a bit too much like We All Need Some Light, but World Without a Heart is a really nice little tune.

[HOF]

As another part of my restoration projects I've been listening to a complete version of I Am the Sun (with both parts merged seemlessly) quite a lot this week. Clearly one of their best!

I also have a merged I Am the Sun (I got lucky when I merged them as I managed to get it exactly right; no way I could get that lucky again ), but I usually listen to them separately since I do think they work better as two songs the way they are on the album.  As a whole, it's definitely one of their best pieces of music ever, for sure.

You guys might try it with Slave to Money and A King’s Prayer in between. A King’s Prayer repeats a theme from Pt. 1 and Slave to Money flows really well from Pt 1 to A King’s Prayer. Total time is just under 40 minutes. If that’s too long it also works with just A King’s Prayer as a bridge.

[Ben_Jamin]

Agreed that Last Minute on Earth is a bit "eh" and Serious Dreamers is excellent. Very cool laid-back vibe throughout the song, similar to Marillion's House which I also like quite a bit. I like Sword of God but it feels out of place on The Rainmaker. City of Angels never did too much for me (the chorus ruins it) but Road To Sanctuary is a hell of an epic, the recurring acoustic melody is really nice and the song as a whole has lots of twists and turns.

That acoustic melody just screams Steve Howe to me.  One of the best things about the song, for sure. 

I think one problem with The Rainmaker as well is the production.  It's a little muddy and flat, and not as bright as their albums normally are.  Nothing wrong with going for a different sound and vibe, but it's almost like the mixer wasn't quite sure how to capture the vibe for which they were going.

Oddly enough, the cover art depicts that exactly.

[KevShmev]

Oddly enough, the cover art depicts that exactly.

Haha, perhaps.

Ghost and Silent Sorrow are favorites of mine too, so I'm extremely jealous. I wouldn't mind a setlist consisting entirely of songs under 10 minutes and no edits or medleys. I feel like they tour so infrequently that Roine feels a need to go back to the same "big" songs over and over again.

That is probably true, but as to your point about a tour with only shorter songs, that would be so great.  As good as they do the epic stuff, they do the short songs really well, too, and I have to imagine that the list of good short TFK songs that have never gotten played live is pretty long.

That said, I’ve only in the last two years or so gone back and picked up the rest of the pre-Rainmaker TFK albums (sans the ridiculously hard to find Back in the World of Adventures). So my view of it isn’t really colored by what came before it. I’ve also had Unfold The Future for about a year now and I’ve never been able to get into it outside of Silent Inferno. Hard to imagine that one overshadows The Rainmaker! But I really need to revisit it it I think.

I'm not quite as nutty about Unfold the Future as I was at first, but I still like it a lot.  It's just so darn long. 

You guys might try it with Slave to Money and A King’s Prayer in between. A King’s Prayer repeats a theme from Pt. 1 and Slave to Money flows really well from Pt 1 to A King’s Prayer. Total time is just under 40 minutes. If that’s too long it also works with just A King’s Prayer as a bridge.

Any abridged version of Space Revolver, just for fun, that has A King's Prayer has to have Monster Within as well since the main riff in MW is reprised at the end of A King's Prayer.  I think that is why I prefer I Am the Sun as two tracks, because the lead-in to it from A King's Prayer is just so good.

[Kyo]

I haven't looked into an alternative album order in this case, I just listen to the song on its own. I can see why they felt it would be best to start with the opening section of I Am the Sun and end on its ending section. I just think that the song works a lot better the way it was originally written (duh!) because the way tension builds makes a lot more sense this way and Part 2 really works well as an extended reprise / coda for the song than it does on its own.

I did the same with DT's In the Presence of Enemies and it's cool to have it in one piece. The big difference is that there you have The Ministry of Lost Souls which works perfectly well as an alternative album closer if the album were to start with the complete ITPoE.

Speaking of edited versions of epic songs, does anyone have the reworked Devil's Playground from the Unfold the Future reissue? I hear it was shortened, so what exactly did Roine do?

[The Letter M]

I recently just finished a chronological run of listening to all of the TFK albums (plus Roine's The Flower Kings and Manifesto Of An Alchemist), and I've got to say, they're still one of my favorite bands of the last 25 years. Even just the sheer amount of material they've released is quite impressive, but a lot of it is so high quality, IMO, that it's just astonishing how they were able to pump out so much music, especially between 1995-2007 (with all of those double albums, too!).

With regards to The Rainmaker, while I don't rate it as highly as some of their other albums, it's still an enjoyable listen (bonus tracks and all), and I've never really had a problem with it, production wise. It just has the unfortunate placement of coming between two highly regarded TFK albums in retrospect. I think, for me, after Space Revolver, they really did a Star Trek Film sequence for themselves, where a lot of fans enjoyed SR/UTF/PH but not so much TR/A&E/TSONE.

And speaking of Space Revolver, I'm happy to see others have also done their edits of merging the two parts of I Am The Sun (which I've also done to other split-epics like Shine On You Crazy Diamond and In The Presence Of Enemies). It really is nice to hear it as one long piece, but I really like the way it bookends the album, especially the way "A King's Prayer" precedes the 2nd half. Even on my expanded 2CD tracklist of Space Revolver, I still kept the epic split, as I really liked how it ended the album, but I just couldn't find a better opening song than the first part (unlike my re-ordering of Systematic Chaos, where I used ITPOE as the closer and opened with Constant Motion).

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

The combined I Am the Sun as one track would seem weird as the opener, but I could see ending the album with A King's Prayer and then Monster Within, as the main riff in MW would first be introduced as a tease at the end of AKP and then we get hit with it full blast during the MW intro.  Some tweaking would be needed regarding the ending of A King's Prayer to fade it out sooner to avoid hearing the acoustic again that brings us into Part 2 of I Am the Sun on the proper album.

I don't mind Dream On Dreamer or You Don't Know What You've Got... but you could lose those and go with this as the running order:

1 I Am the Sun
2 Chicken Farmer Song
3 Underdog
4 Rumble Fish Twist
5 Slave to Money
6 A King's Prayer
7 Monster Within

I think that would work well.  You'd get the two short catchy rockers as breathers after the long epic that kicks off the album, then wonder into instrumental territory with Rumble Fish Twist, and then wrap up the last 25 minutes as listed.  Seems like that would work well.

[HOF]

To be honest, I don’t really like Monster Within much at all. It’s the Sword of God of this album, although the intro is pretty cool. I don’t hate Dream on Dreamer, Rumble Fish Twist, or Underdog, but you could knock those four tracks out and have an excellent 47 minute album with no filler.

That said, I just noticed Monster Within does contain the same riff as I am the Sun pt 1, so you probably would want to include that if you were going to do a mashup of pt. 1 and 2 with additional tracks as I suggested above.

[KevShmev]

To be honest, I don’t really like Monster Within much at all. It’s the Sword of God of this album, although the intro is pretty cool. I don’t hate Dream on Dreamer, Rumble Fish Twist, or Underdog, but you could knock those four tracks out and have an excellent 47 minute album with no filler.

That said, I just noticed Monster Within does contain the same riff as I am the Sun pt 1, so you probably would want to include that if you were going to do a mashup of pt. 1 and 2 with additional tracks as I suggested above.

Not liking Monster Within is not allowed in this thread.

Kidding, haha. We all like what we like. 

[DTA]

To be honest, I don’t really like Monster Within much at all. It’s the Sword of God of this album, although the intro is pretty cool. I don’t hate Dream on Dreamer, Rumble Fish Twist, or Underdog, but you could knock those four tracks out and have an excellent 47 minute album with no filler.

That said, I just noticed Monster Within does contain the same riff as I am the Sun pt 1, so you probably would want to include that if you were going to do a mashup of pt. 1 and 2 with additional tracks as I suggested above.

Monster is a bizarre track but the intro melody and its variations near the end make it too good to pass up. I notice a lot of people aren't into it, but it's classic FK to me. It's the Epping Forest of this album.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

For me, the deciding element of the band is often the drummer. I think, Zoltan Czörsz (hope that's correct) remains their best drummer, although Felix Lehrmann is also a beast (he's the same drummer that plays in Martin Miller's session band https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_HeVyc5-GY). But he was never given the freedom on the studio records that Zoltan was.
Knowing what great drummers have played on TFK music, the other drummers fall short a little bit.

Here's a funny thing, I didn't know Felix played with TFK and every I see a Martin Miller Session I always think about Zoltan when I see Felix because he kind of looks like him. Both great drummers!

[kirksnosehair]

The Rainmaker was definitely less bright sounding, plus it was the first time that there was somewhat of a darker sound. Even the cover is bleak. But it's a great album that I always had a high opinion of, even though it will never be my favorite. I also think all of the shorter songs are pretty strong, and I love the ambient title track.

To this day that's still my favorite album from The Flower Kings.  I think it has more to do with it being one of my first purchases from them.  I became a fan just after its release.  The last few albums haven't really done a whole lot for me.  I may have to revisit them.  I remember them being pleasant and a good listen, but not very memorable.

[DTA]

The Rainmaker was definitely less bright sounding, plus it was the first time that there was somewhat of a darker sound. Even the cover is bleak. But it's a great album that I always had a high opinion of, even though it will never be my favorite. I also think all of the shorter songs are pretty strong, and I love the ambient title track.

To this day that's still my favorite album from The Flower Kings.  I think it has more to do with it being one of my first purchases from them.  I became a fan just after its release.  The last few albums haven't really done a whole lot for me.  I may have to revisit them.  I remember them being pleasant and a good listen, but not very memorable.

The Rainmaker just feels different than what came before, but it's one I always enjoy listening to. Waiting For Miracles is a pretty tough one to get through. I've listened to it a bunch but nothing seems to stick whereas I was humming stuff from their earlier albums after a few listens. Banks of Eden and Desolation Rose were really memorable imo...lots of good moments throughout.

[The Letter M]

In case no one here saw it on Facebook, TFK drummer MirkKo De Maio posted on July 29th that their new album is "now in the oven, almost ready to be packed up". He goes on to talk about how Roine took advantage of the pandemic lockdown to propose starting a new album. While MirkKo was initially worried that it might be too soon for a new release (since WFM was released only last fall), his concerns were quelled once Roine sent out his first demo a week after the decision was made to being a new album.

MirkKo goes on to say that, during that demo, he was so moved by the song that he rushed to the drums to play to it, and that "IT HAS BEEN ONE OF THE MOST INTENSE MOMENTS OF MY LIFE, I've started crying while I was playing that song."

He says that there were songs proposed by everyone (I assume, primarily, by Jonas and Hasse), and that "some where just 'different' from what I would expect and it's incredible how those songs (that didn't impress me in the beginning) are now some of my favourites ever and I couldn't stop singing them around."

He ends by saying he wish he could share more, but that'll be the job for magazine interviewers. He closes with "IT WILL BE SPECIAL!"

Seems like the album could be ready for release by November or December, given that WFM was recorded in the summer of 2019 and only released a few months later, though with the pandemic, the process could take long this year, but I think Roine will try to get this one out before the end of 2020 (which means he might be pushing to get it out before Transatlantic's fifth album, even though the new TFK was recorded over half-a-year AFTER the new Transatlantic).

-Marc.

[The Letter M]

THE FLOWER KINGS – announce October 30th as release date for new double album “Islands”!

On October 30th, 2020 progressive rockers THE FLOWER KINGS will release their new double album “Islands” on InsideOutMusic, just a year after the group’s much celebrated “Waiting For Miracles”.

Due to the Covid-19-pandemic, the album comes out quite a bit sooner than originally planned as the band’s creative mastermind Roine Stolt explains:
“All shows and festivals were cancelled and the future didn’t really ‘unfold’ itself like we had hoped. To sit out the pandemic with no activities was not an option for us! We can’t be stopped by an evil virus! So, with members living in the USA, Italy, Austria and Sweden, the only way to realize this album, was to use the magic of the ‘net’, sending files around the globe and start building what now has become a mammoth-sized double album of 21 songs.”

The 92 minutes long “Islands” features artwork by legend Roger Dean (Yes, Asia, Gentle Giant, Greenslade, Uriah Heep) and all trademark sounds and melodies, the band is renowned for. From vintage keys to epic guitar solos, from odd drum patterns to symphonic elements, THE FLOWER KINGS present a dynamic and complex record that is bold, bombastic and beautiful.

Stolt reveals the following about the concept of the record:
“The theme of the album is isolation - so the title ‘Islands’ felt like a most relevant title - as much of it circulates around isolation, loss, and the fear of being disconnected. Having to face this unexpected pandemic will leave marks on each one of us for a very long time and to lose loved ones forces us to soldier on, learning and growing a stronger version of ourselves in this fragile cycle of life.
Musically; the aim has been to  create a bigger grand epic piece out of 21 songs - so they are all connected with themes that weave in and out - like the way ‘Sgt Peppers’ or ‘The Lamb’ were built on shorter songs,  but yet linked. So view it as one mega song or as 21 separate pieces, it is all tailored to be listened to as one piece - like a cinematic 90min long ride.”

Disc One (49:40)
1 - Racing With Blinders On 4:24
2 - From The Ground 4.02
3 - Black Swan 5:53
4 - Morning News 4:01
5 – Broken 6:38
6 - Goodbye Outrage 2:19
7 – Journeyman 1:43
8 – Tangerine 3:51
9 – Solaris 9:10
10 - Heart Of The Valley 4:18
11- Man In A Two Peace Suit 3:21

Disc Two (43:01)
1 - All I Need Is Love 5:48
2 - A New Species 5:45
3 - Northern Lights 5:43
4 - Hidden Angles 0:50
5 – Serpentine 3:52
6 - Looking For Answers 4:30
7 –Telescope 4:41
8 - Fool’s Gold 3:11
9 - Between Hope & Fear 4:29
10 – Islands 4:12

“Islands” will be available as massive Limited 3LP & 2CD box set with slipcase and 180 gram vinyl housed in two gatefolds, one single sleeve; as Limited Edition 2CD Digipak and Digital Album. Presales will start September 11th, 2020.

Line-Up:
Roine Stolt - Vocal, Ukulele, Guitars, Additional Keyboards
Hasse Fröberg - Vocal & Acoustic Guitar
Jonas Reingold - Bass, Acoustic Guitar
Zach Kamins - Pianos, Organ, Synthesizers, Mellotron, Orchestrations
Mirko DeMaio - Drums, Percussion
Guest: Rob Townsend - Soprano Saxophone

https://www.roinestolt.com/
http://www.facebook.com/TheFlowerKings
https://www.instagram.com/roinestolt8112/
https://www.facebook.com/pale.rider.127



------------

Just pre-ordered from Roine's website, despite it saying preorders don't start til the 11th, I was able to place an order - https://www.roinestolt.com/product/the-flower-kings-islands-double-cd-preorder-start-soon-1st-200-signed-/33?cs=true

I hope I got one of the first 200 to get signed!

-Marc.

[HOF]

That’s a really cool cover. Wonder if the music is especially Yes-ish or it just worked out to get a Roger Dean involved and they told him “make it look like Yes” or what.

[Nel]

Well that's just a pleasant surprise (and I'm always happy to see Roger Dean cover art.)!

[RoeDent]

Wow that's cheered me up! Bring it on! Given how much I enjoyed Waiting for Miracles, I'm really pumped for this one.

[DTA]

Hesitant excitement on my part. WfM was much better than Invention and Sea Within, but it still didn't really grab hold of me. And I feel like they already tried this "short songs with repeated themes" idea on Desolation Rose. Still, the cover art is great and the band sounds inspired so I'm hoping this one is the long-awaited Roine comeback album.

[Zydar]

Wow, they're really productive. I still haven't digested the latest one.

[Mladen]

I was quite underwhelmed by Waiting for miracles, but maybe this one will hit differently. These guys sure are productive.

[The Letter M]

That’s a really cool cover. Wonder if the music is especially Yes-ish or it just worked out to get a Roger Dean involved and they told him “make it look like Yes” or what.

Good question! And it's made even more curious that Yes announced a new live album today as well, also with new artwork by Roger Dean, so it's a big day for Roger Dean fans!

After reading the announcement this morning, I promptly listened to Waiting For Miracles, and enjoyed every minute of its 84-minute glory.

On the topic of length, I believe this is the first TFK album not to feature a single track longer than 10 minutes, with the closest being Solaris, at 9:10 long. Given the idea that this album could be viewed as a 92-minute piece, I wonder if any of the tracks segue seamlessly into each other to create mini-suites on the album sides. Guess we have about 2 months to wait and find out!

-Marc.