Author Topic: Flower Kings Official Thread  (Read 230849 times)

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Offline darkshade

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #455 on: April 20, 2012, 12:59:04 PM »
I honestly think that The Sum of No Evil beats every album before and since Jonas joined, except for Unfold the Future. The album is consistent, and some of the best material is contained within.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #456 on: April 20, 2012, 01:01:59 PM »
I could not disagree more.  I wouldn't say any of the songs are even close to being among their best songs, and it has their most boring song ever (One More Time).  Don't get me wrong, it is a good overall album, but, for me, it just doesn't stack up to most of the others.  I think The Sum... and The Rainmaker are easily their two least best albums.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #457 on: April 20, 2012, 01:16:36 PM »
TSONE is pretty good, and I find myself coming back to it more often than A&E and The Rainmaker. Of their last 5 albums, I'd say it's not their worst. I'd prefer it over Rainmaker, and probably alongside A&E, but not above PH or UTF (which are Top 3 for me).

Also, has anyone else checked out the new vids featuring new music clips and interviews with the band on the new album/drummer? It sounds heavy and dark and like a natural progression from where TSONE was going. Sounds a bit like UTF and TSONE with a bit of that classic TFK sound (whatever that may be lol)

-Marc.
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Offline darkshade

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #458 on: April 20, 2012, 01:39:58 PM »
Yea it seems like the new album will be a continuation of TSONE, with added heaviness and darker moments. There was still some of the soaring guitar lead moments and lighter stuff as well, as is to be expected. Banks of Eden is my most anticipated album of 2012 (unless Transatlantic set a release date for this year)

Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #459 on: April 20, 2012, 02:20:52 PM »
The one new video I saw of the band was just weird.  At the beginning, Roine is talking while Bodin is sitting next to him, but up higher and with his arms folded across his body.  It just looked strange, especially from the angle it was shot from. :lol


Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #460 on: April 21, 2012, 09:18:11 AM »
Preview medley of the new album:

https://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/12977417

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #461 on: April 21, 2012, 09:20:53 AM »
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #462 on: April 21, 2012, 09:28:29 AM »
No problemo.  I hear a lot of Roine vocals in those clips, which is always good thing. :)

Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #463 on: April 26, 2012, 11:30:13 AM »
After listening to all of Stardust We Are on a drive yesterday, I am starting to think that me putting it at number 6 in my TFK top 50 I did last year (that can be found in the earlier pages of this thread) was a mistake.  It should probably be number 3 or 4.  In retrospect, I think it is better than both Big Puzzle and Devil's Playground.  So much awesomeness in 25 minutes. :hat

Offline darkshade

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #464 on: April 26, 2012, 01:52:03 PM »
Unfold The Future                        * * * * *
Space Revolver                            * * * * *
Flower Power                               * * * *
Stardust We Are                          * * * *
Back In The World of Adventures   * * * *
The Sum Of No Evil                       * * * *
Paradox Hotel                              * * * *
The Flower King                           * * *
Adam & Eve                                * * *
The Rainmaker                            * * *
Retropolis                                   * * *

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #465 on: April 26, 2012, 01:53:07 PM »
I honestly think that The Sum of No Evil beats every album before and since Jonas joined, except for Unfold the Future. The album is consistent, and some of the best material is contained within.

It's the only TFK album where I do not feel compelled to reach for the skip button several times.  In short, I think it's excellent and would love it if the new one is in a similar vein.

Offline darkshade

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #466 on: April 26, 2012, 01:58:00 PM »
I honestly think that The Sum of No Evil beats every album before and since Jonas joined, except for Unfold the Future. The album is consistent, and some of the best material is contained within.

It's the only TFK album where I do not feel compelled to reach for the skip button several times.  In short, I think it's excellent and would love it if the new one is in a similar vein.

My album rankings I just posted go against what I said about TSONE, but I still stand by the fact that it is one of their best albums. My opinions on their music vary from day to day; week to week.  ;)

Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #467 on: April 26, 2012, 02:00:40 PM »
Okay, but why are you including The Flower King in there?  I know some people in certain circles like to think of it as the real first TFK album, but it's not.  The style is very much in the TFK vein, but Roine performs all of the guitars, bass and keyboards.  It is very much a Stolt solo album.  I mean, if we are gonna include The Flower King, then why aren't we including Hydrophonia and Wall Street Voodoo as well? ;)

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #468 on: April 26, 2012, 02:01:44 PM »
Ugh, I refuse to acknowledge the existence of Wall Street Voodoo
 :P

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #469 on: April 26, 2012, 02:02:51 PM »
I honestly think that The Sum of No Evil beats every album before and since Jonas joined, except for Unfold the Future. The album is consistent, and some of the best material is contained within.

It's the only TFK album where I do not feel compelled to reach for the skip button several times.  In short, I think it's excellent and would love it if the new one is in a similar vein.

My album rankings I just posted go against what I said about TSONE, but I still stand by the fact that it is one of their best albums. My opinions on their music vary from day to day; week to week.  ;)

I have similar rankings to yours except I like The Rainmaker a lot more than most people (probably because it was my first TFK album) and I'd probably rank the top half of that list a bit differently.


Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #470 on: April 26, 2012, 02:06:30 PM »
Wall Street Voodoo is good for what it is - bluesy rock - but I'll admit that I rarely listen to it.  I like most of it, but strictly blues simply isn't a style of music that I am usually in the mood for.

Offline darkshade

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #471 on: April 26, 2012, 02:09:20 PM »
Okay, but why are you including The Flower King in there?  I know some people in certain circles like to think of it as the real first TFK album, but it's not.  The style is very much in the TFK vein, but Roine performs all of the guitars, bass and keyboards.  It is very much a Stolt solo album.  I mean, if we are gonna include The Flower King, then why aren't we including Hydrophonia and Wall Street Voodoo as well? ;)

I know The Flower King is not a proper TFK album, I have the album listed under 'Roine Stolt' on my iTunes. I like to look at that album as like the prequel album to the Flower Kings discography; sort of like The Hobbit is to Lord of the Rings, or something of that sort. (Ive never read LOTR, btw). The album never enters my top 5 on principle, but it is better than at least a couple of proper Flower Kings albums.

Offline Pols Voice

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #472 on: April 26, 2012, 03:57:39 PM »
I like The Rainmaker quite a bit, and it wasn't my first TFK album (Flower Power was). I love Last Minute on Earth, World Without a Heart, Road to Sanctuary, and Sword of God.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #473 on: April 26, 2012, 04:05:21 PM »
Okay, but why are you including The Flower King in there?  I know some people in certain circles like to think of it as the real first TFK album, but it's not.  The style is very much in the TFK vein, but Roine performs all of the guitars, bass and keyboards.  It is very much a Stolt solo album.  I mean, if we are gonna include The Flower King, then why aren't we including Hydrophonia and Wall Street Voodoo as well? ;)

I know The Flower King is not a proper TFK album, I have the album listed under 'Roine Stolt' on my iTunes. I like to look at that album as like the prequel album to the Flower Kings discography; sort of like The Hobbit is to Lord of the Rings, or something of that sort. (Ive never read LOTR, btw). The album never enters my top 5 on principle, but it is better than at least a couple of proper Flower Kings albums.

I think Roine Stolt's The Flower King is more of a TFK album than "On The Sunday Of Life" is a Porcupine Tree album, which is really a Steven Wilson solo album that's been labelled as PT's debut album. I think The Flower King is a pre-cursor in the way that the Majesty Demos were for Dream Theater. A glimpse of things to come with most of the band that would be on their debut.

-Marc.
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Offline darkshade

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #474 on: April 26, 2012, 05:44:24 PM »
Okay, but why are you including The Flower King in there?  I know some people in certain circles like to think of it as the real first TFK album, but it's not.  The style is very much in the TFK vein, but Roine performs all of the guitars, bass and keyboards.  It is very much a Stolt solo album.  I mean, if we are gonna include The Flower King, then why aren't we including Hydrophonia and Wall Street Voodoo as well? ;)

I know The Flower King is not a proper TFK album, I have the album listed under 'Roine Stolt' on my iTunes. I like to look at that album as like the prequel album to the Flower Kings discography; sort of like The Hobbit is to Lord of the Rings, or something of that sort. (Ive never read LOTR, btw). The album never enters my top 5 on principle, but it is better than at least a couple of proper Flower Kings albums.

I think Roine Stolt's The Flower King is more of a TFK album than "On The Sunday Of Life" is a Porcupine Tree album, which is really a Steven Wilson solo album that's been labelled as PT's debut album. I think The Flower King is a pre-cursor in the way that the Majesty Demos were for Dream Theater. A glimpse of things to come with most of the band that would be on their debut.

-Marc.

It's funny because I view WDADU as a precursor to DT's discography  :P

Offline The Letter M

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #475 on: April 26, 2012, 09:02:13 PM »
https://www.spincds.com/coming-soon/banks-of-eden-cd-34237

According to this, and a couple other sources, here's the tracklist:

1. Numbers - 25:20
2. For The Love Of Gold - 07:35
3. Pandemonium - 06:05
4. For Those About To Drown - 06:50
5. Rising The Imperial - 07:40
Bonus CD:
1. Fireghosts - 05:50
2. Going Up - 05:10
3. Illuminati - 06:20
4. Lo Lines - 04:40
5. Interview with the band in the studio - Video Feature (18:12)

And here's the vinyl track listing...

Side A:
1. Numbers - 25:20
Side B:
1. For The Love Of Gold - 07:35
2. Pandemonium - 06:05
3. For Those About To Drown - 06:50
Side C:
1. Rising The Imperial - 07:40
2. Fireghosts - 05:50
3. Going Up - 05:10
Side D:
1. Illuminati - 06:20
2. Lo Lines - 04:40

According to the link above, you can buy both in a bundle, which I will TOTALLY get.

Flower Kings on vinyl?! I don't OWN a record player (yet) but when I do, this will sound AWESOME. Besides, the art is just very pretty.

-Marc.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 09:12:43 PM by The Letter M »
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #476 on: April 27, 2012, 08:05:02 AM »
Interesting that the regular album will be that short (by their standards).  Nice to get some bonus tracks, though.  :tup :tup

Okay, but why are you including The Flower King in there?  I know some people in certain circles like to think of it as the real first TFK album, but it's not.  The style is very much in the TFK vein, but Roine performs all of the guitars, bass and keyboards.  It is very much a Stolt solo album.  I mean, if we are gonna include The Flower King, then why aren't we including Hydrophonia and Wall Street Voodoo as well? ;)

I know The Flower King is not a proper TFK album, I have the album listed under 'Roine Stolt' on my iTunes. I like to look at that album as like the prequel album to the Flower Kings discography; sort of like The Hobbit is to Lord of the Rings, or something of that sort. (Ive never read LOTR, btw). The album never enters my top 5 on principle, but it is better than at least a couple of proper Flower Kings albums.

I probably agree with all of that, but I still don't call it a real TFK album.  No Tomas Bodin, no Flower Kings!

Offline The Letter M

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #477 on: April 27, 2012, 09:05:00 AM »
Interesting that the regular album will be that short (by their standards).  Nice to get some bonus tracks, though.  :tup :tup

Okay, but why are you including The Flower King in there?  I know some people in certain circles like to think of it as the real first TFK album, but it's not.  The style is very much in the TFK vein, but Roine performs all of the guitars, bass and keyboards.  It is very much a Stolt solo album.  I mean, if we are gonna include The Flower King, then why aren't we including Hydrophonia and Wall Street Voodoo as well? ;)

I know The Flower King is not a proper TFK album, I have the album listed under 'Roine Stolt' on my iTunes. I like to look at that album as like the prequel album to the Flower Kings discography; sort of like The Hobbit is to Lord of the Rings, or something of that sort. (Ive never read LOTR, btw). The album never enters my top 5 on principle, but it is better than at least a couple of proper Flower Kings albums.

I probably agree with all of that, but I still don't call it a real TFK album.  No Tomas Bodin, no Flower Kings!

Well considering that most of the material (for TFK albums) is WRITTEN by Roine Stolt, especially in the first few albums, they're more like solo albums featuring other members, many of which were ON his solo album The Flower King, and they've played many tunes from it as a band, The Flower Kings, much in the same way that Porcupine Tree has done "Radioactive Toy" as a full band, even though it was completely done by Steven Wilson himself.

Whether or not you like Tomas' playing I think is a bit irrelevant when considering The Flower King as a TFK album. It's like saying Spock's Beard's The Light wasn't a real SB album because it didn't have Ryo Okumoto on it. I know, you'll probably say "That's a different story", but Ryo does add a lot to the band's sound, and even some fans here might agree that SB sounded better after The Light. And back to PT, the addition of Richard Barbieri into the "band" really added a lot to their sound, especially when The Sky Moves Sideways came around.

Either way, I count The Flower King as a pre-TFK album, a sort of proto-type, and even though Tomas was not on it, Roine does a pretty good job with his keyboards. I'm sure we won't ever know, but it's also quite possible that, for the songs Roine wrote in the earlier TFK albums, Roine wrote all the keyboard parts and gave Tomas the demo and said "Play these parts with your keyboards", which in effect would mean that Tomas was really only a session player, recording things that Roine wrote.

Not to diminish anything Tomas does, and I'm sure he does add a lot to Roine's music once they're in the studio, but the writing credits all (usually) say "Music by Roine Stolt", a lot more often than not. So if that is the case, then I would definitely count The Flower King as a TFK album, while an album like Hydrophonia would not, mainly because it is an instrumental album. Most of TFK release an instrumental live album once and even went out of their way to call it an album by "Circus Brimstone", rather than "The Flower Kings".

-Marc.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #478 on: April 27, 2012, 09:25:58 AM »
I get what you are saying, but Ryo didn't join SB and become their full-time player; IIRC, he was asked to join the band because Neal couldn't handle all of the keyboard parts live AND sing lead.  Bodin became the keyboard guy in TFK, and even if Roine wrote his parts (which I have no idea if that was the case, but I doubt it), Bodin still has a specific sound and style that is very much a part of the TFK sound. 

PT isn't really a relevant comparison since Steven Wilson by his own admission has said that PT was a bit of a gag early on and only became a "real band" a few years later.  His original intention was not for Porcupine Tree to evolve into a regular band with other members.

Lastly, The Flower King is far more guitar driven than any TFK album. which is why it really has that feel of being a solo album.  Sure, it has Humanizzimo, which easily could have been a TFK track and has been played many times by the band, but the majority of the songs totally have that solo album, almost guitar hero, feel. 

Offline The Letter M

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #479 on: April 27, 2012, 09:33:19 AM »
I feel like if Roine wanted to do all the keyboards, he could have and not have invited Tomas to join his band. I'm not exactly sure what the history is behind the exact formation of the band, but I feel like, calling the band after the name of that album is a huge indicator of what he wanted do do with the band (make more music like the album he made).

And even though it is a lot more guitar-driven than later TFK albums, I think that's just because Roine was at the helm of it, but the album also included many players that would continue on in The Flower Kings - Hasse Fröberg, Ulf Wallander, Hasse Brunisson, and Jaime Salazar, all four of which would continue with Roine through four TFK albums, with the addition of Michael Stolt and Tomas Bodin.

I guess it's really hard to find a comparison in other bands because most bands start off as a full band and not stem from a single musician's solo album, but considering Roine was doing such different music prior to the release of The Flower King (like his albums Fantasia and The Lonely Heartbeat), the music on that album has a lot more in common with TFK than not.

-Marc.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #480 on: April 27, 2012, 09:50:26 AM »
My Favorite Headache sounds a lot like Rush (which makes sense since Geddy Lee is one of the two main music songwriters); are we gonna call that a real Rush album?  Nope.

Sure, Roine could have done the keys, and likely would have done a good job, but not as good a job as someone whose main job is playing keyboards (see: Tomas Bodin) would have done.

And I still need to hear those two early Roine solo albums.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #481 on: April 27, 2012, 09:59:46 AM »
My Favorite Headache sounds a lot like Rush (which makes sense since Geddy Lee is one of the two main music songwriters); are we gonna call that a real Rush album?  Nope.

Sure, Roine could have done the keys, and likely would have done a good job, but not as good a job as someone whose main job is playing keyboards (see: Tomas Bodin) would have done.

And I still need to hear those two early Roine solo albums.

I wouldn't say there's any basis in comparing Roine's solo album (which came out BEFORE there was a band named after it) to Geddy Lee's solo album, which came out long after Rush was around and established. And the writing dynamic is largely different in Rush than it is in The Flower Kings. In Rush, most of the music is written by Geddy and Alex, with lyrics by Neil, where as in TFK, most of the music and lyrics are by Roine alone, with minor contributions in music from the others, sometimes lyrics.

-Marc.
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Offline Nick

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #482 on: April 27, 2012, 10:05:46 AM »
Most pointless discussion ever. :p

But I'll give my 2 cents.

In cases like this you can only really go by what was intended at the time, indicated by the names and labels. The Flower King was a Roine Stolt solo album, pure and simple, because that's how it was marketed at the time. The band then formed and the name was changed to show such.

If you had a band with 5 albums and the same lineup, and those same guys decided they wanted to do an album that was different so they'd use a different name, you can't just say it's another album from band xxx, because it's not, the intention was to be something different. The Flower King was a solo album, so even if the players and dynamic stay simpler there was a change to a band format and a change to the name, so The Flower King, while being very closely linked to The Flower Kings (duh) is not a Flower Kinds record.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #483 on: April 27, 2012, 12:02:31 PM »
Yeah, um, so anyway, I had not listened to Flower Power in a long time so I gave both discs a spin today.

Other than some seriously skippable borning/useless tracks on disc one towards the end of the Garden of Dreams suite, I think it's one of their most consistent albums.



Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #484 on: April 27, 2012, 12:05:53 PM »
Well said, Nic.  Okay, that felt weird typing that. :P

And yeah, Flower Power is all kinds of awesome.  I like every part of the GOD suite - I get why a few of the mellow tracks might not be for everyone, but I like them in context, and they help the flow - and Disc 2 is loaded with great tunes.  Magic Pie, however, is one of those things I wish they would have chucked in the river. :lol

Offline pain of occupation

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #485 on: April 27, 2012, 01:12:04 PM »
...calling the band after the name of that album is a huge indicator of what he wanted do do with the band (make more music like the album he made).

-Marc.

^ this

was just dropping in to say i've spun Devil's Playground some 15+ times in the past 11 days since my kinda-big post. its safe to say i now know it pretty much as well as the rest of the album. oh, and its quite  :metal

Offline darkshade

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #486 on: April 27, 2012, 02:08:07 PM »
...calling the band after the name of that album is a huge indicator of what he wanted do do with the band (make more music like the album he made).

-Marc.

^ this

was just dropping in to say i've spun Devil's Playground some 15+ times in the past 11 days since my kinda-big post. its safe to say i now know it pretty much as well as the rest of the album. oh, and its quite  :metal

Dat big 'metal' riff, well it's heavy. First played by the orchestra in the beginning of the song. I guess it's the main theme?

That and the climatic ending are my 2 favorite moments on that song, and 2 of the best moments on UtF.

Unless I'm doing the whole album, I usually listen to Solitary Shell leading into Devil's Playground. I don't know why, but SS gives me chills every time I hear it. Beautiful song.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #487 on: April 28, 2012, 10:41:22 AM »
Well back to Banks of Eden - it's interesting that this will be their shortest album to date - 53:30 long with only 5 tracks- not including the bonus disc tracks. I wonder if it was for a lack of time, demoed material, or just the need for not filling a whole disc.

Either way, I wonder if fans will see this as a "trimming" in comparison to their other albums, which reach 75+ minutes. If so, I wonder how the bonus disc tracks will sound compared to the main album, or if it will all be quality (as I expect).

-Marc.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #488 on: April 28, 2012, 11:27:26 AM »
I am surprised they are doing such a short album (by their standards) after such a long hiatus, but given that they always do a great job when it comes to flow and cohesiveness, I have faith that this one will be no different.



Unless I'm doing the whole album, I usually listen to Solitary Shell leading into Devil's Playground. I don't know why, but SS gives me chills every time I hear it. Beautiful song.

It certainly is, as is Man Overboard.  In fact, Man Overboard and Solitary Shell are two of my favorites from UTF!

Offline darkshade

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Re: The Flower Kings Official Thread
« Reply #489 on: April 28, 2012, 01:18:13 PM »
I am surprised they are doing such a short album (by their standards) after such a long hiatus, but given that they always do a great job when it comes to flow and cohesiveness, I have faith that this one will be no different.



Unless I'm doing the whole album, I usually listen to Solitary Shell leading into Devil's Playground. I don't know why, but SS gives me chills every time I hear it. Beautiful song.

It certainly is, as is Man Overboard.  In fact, Man Overboard and Solitary Shell are two of my favorites from UTF!

Yea Man Overboard is pretty good. I also like, when in context of the album, The Navigator, which is Solitary Shell's other half, but more 'innocent' sounding than SS. That especially gives me chills, because the album flows like a movie.