JM going silent after JR's arrival?

[changing_seasons]

I got both Lines in the Sand and Trial of Tears from my iPhone today, and I started wondering about something. Did John Myung perhaps retreat to his solitary shell (pun intended) because Jordan joined the band? I imagine before this it was John and John who wrote most of the music - certainly most of the riffs - together. Then came Jordan, and JP got a technical wizard to challenge him. I always think of JP and JM back in the day sitting in a basement playing Rush together and coming up with original music. Now maybe JM doesnt think there is room for that stuff anymore.

I don't recall seing this angle discussed before, so that's my take on it. 

[kirbywelch92]

I think that may have slightly something to do with it, but I think it's mainly Mike's policy of only presented finalized and complete music before moving forward, which is a bit ridiculous. These trend really did start with Jordan, case in point being the SDOIT overture and how the band decided to adopt it so quickly considering the fact that it was for the most part finished. And, perhaps Myung is a bit like myself and is afraid to push his own ideas forward especially when someone else gets so excited about it.

Is it all JR, no, but I think his arrival began the snowball that led to JMX's lack of input in the band's direction.

[reneranucci]

No.

And "MP´s policy" doesn´t have anything to do with the music but with having lyrics and melodies arranged, as far as I know.

[razorsedge]

interesting thought.  i mean, i can't say anything with any certainty, but this seems rather plausible in my opinion.  john and mike go and do this side project with jordan and a few years later jordan is a member of the band.  i would think it has something to do with the fact that they enjoy writing music with the guy.  whether it is easier for them or whatever is irrelevant; they like the process with jordan and jordan, therefore, becomes a very influential and active contributor.  other contributors try and establish a new role in the band that accommodates jordan and jmx developed what we have now.    also, the fact that jordan is so in to the nature of sound, i imagine he has a lot of impact simply for the fact that his explorations in the realm of sound and timbre must influence what the band does.

[ddtonfire]

JR's left hand speaks for JM.

[hefdaddy42]

No.  AFAIK, it's only been relatively recently that JM has basically become a session player in the studio.

[changing_seasons]

The reason I was thinking this is because FII seems to be the last album where the bass is somewhat prominent. I guess SFAM has its moments too, but much of that was written before Jordan joined the band.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

The reason I was thinking this is because FII seems to be the last album where the bass is somewhat prominent. I guess SFAM has its moments too, but much of that was written before Jordan joined the band.

It's prominent up until about SC, but the trend got to be just doubling JP/JR

FII was the last album where JMX really played outside of everyone else, and it really shows. His work on that album is just fantastic

[hefdaddy42]

I guess SFAM has its moments too, but much of that was written before Jordan joined the band.

I wouldn't say "much" of it.  They used some pieces of the Metropolis Pt. 2 demo, but not all of it.  Even if they used all 25 minutes of it, that would still leave almost an hour's worth of music on SFAM.

[emindead]

JM is going to participate in the next album. Wasn't here some news saying that he was learning guitar for that matter? I'm not that worried.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

JR buttseck'd JM.

[TJPNET]

JR buttseck'd JM.

It's super effective!

I miss JMX, both in the mix and in the writing process. I listened to SFAM the other day, and it reminded me that I miss what he used to bring to the band.

[Samsara]

FII was the last album where JMX really played outside of everyone else, and it really shows. His work on that album is just fantastic

His work on that record was great. Actually, everything about that record is all sorts of awesomeness in my opinion. But yeah, bass-wise, it was really, really dynamic. I miss that.

[Dream Team]

I think that may have slightly something to do with it, but I think it's mainly Mike's policy of only presented finalized and complete music before moving forward, which is a bit ridiculous. These trend really did start with Jordan, case in point being the SDOIT overture and how the band decided to adopt it so quickly considering the fact that it was for the most part finished. And, perhaps Myung is a bit like myself and is afraid to push his own ideas forward especially when someone else gets so excited about it.

Is it all JR, no, but I think his arrival began the snowball that led to JMX's lack of input in the band's direction.

And people wonder why MP gets pissed. 

[Samsara]

I think that may have slightly something to do with it, but I think it's mainly Mike's policy of only presented finalized and complete music before moving forward, which is a bit ridiculous. These trend really did start with Jordan, case in point being the SDOIT overture and how the band decided to adopt it so quickly considering the fact that it was for the most part finished. And, perhaps Myung is a bit like myself and is afraid to push his own ideas forward especially when someone else gets so excited about it.

Is it all JR, no, but I think his arrival began the snowball that led to JMX's lack of input in the band's direction.

And people wonder why MP gets pissed. 

MP gets pissed because he hates speculation, particularly if that speculation is wrong and picks up steam. But speculation is part of being a fan. Before he was "Mike Portnoy, famed drummer of Dream Theater," he was "Mike" hanging around the haunts on Long Island just like me, speculating about his favorite bands.

So while I can understand his frustration at times, it's a part of the game, and he knows that.

[BRGM]

Everyone is kinda sceptical against Dream Theater since Jordan joined, I don't see why :S I mean, Dream Theater is just getting better and better sinced he joined, I think JM has done some cool stuff since Jordan joined too. Stop being so hatish against JordN!

[changing_seasons]

Just to be clear, I think Jordan joining the band was the greatest thing that could happen. Kevin and Derek didn't fit in with the other guys, who were all so vastly superior technically.

[pogoowner]

Just to be clear, I think Jordan joining the band was the greatest thing that could happen. Kevin and Derek didn't fit in with the other guys, who were all so vastly superior technically.

I don't think the technical difference between Derek and the other members is all that vast. With Kevin, yes, but his writing more than made up for it.

[FlashCE]

Everyone is kinda sceptical against Dream Theater since Jordan joined, I don't see why :S I mean, Dream Theater is just getting better and better sinced he joined, I think JM has done some cool stuff since Jordan joined too. Stop being so hatish against JordN!

tard.jpg

[robwebster]

Everyone is kinda sceptical against Dream Theater since Jordan joined, I don't see why :S I mean, Dream Theater is just getting better and better sinced he joined, I think JM has done some cool stuff since Jordan joined too. Stop being so hatish against JordN!

Agreed... but only to an extent. The band are at the top of their game right now. But John Myung makes even less noise than he did in the FII era and backward. He's done some cool stuff, but if you asked me to mark the point where he suddenly went from quiet to practically silent, it'd be just after SFAM.

[7StringedBeast]

Anyone who thinks JM is silent since SFAM needs their ears checked I do believe.  The bass takes up a lot of room in the mix on all the new albums.  You all probably just think its bottom heavy guitar.  I know we've had this discussion multiple times.  And who says he is silent in making the music?  I'm sure he adds to the Jams just like everyone else does.  Everyone just   

[PlaysLikeMyung]

Anyone who thinks JM is silent since SFAM needs their ears checked I do believe.  The bass takes up a lot of room in the mix on all the new albums.  You all probably just think its bottom heavy guitar.  I know we've had this discussion multiple times.  And who says he is silent in making the music?  I'm sure he adds to the Jams just like everyone else does.  Everyone just   

The problem is that we don't have confirmation as to what he's writing. Once we know for sure we can stop speculating

I really hope his lyrics-rumor turns out to be true. JMX lyrics

[7StringedBeast]

I think everyone here needs to give John Myung a little more credit as a musician whose goal is to put down the best possible part for the songs that are being written.  Everyone makes JM a little pushover who is just going with the flow.  Give him a little more credit and faith.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

I'd like to give him more credit, really. But this last album just screams JP/JR

And JM doesn't even sound present on Raw Dog. I assumed that would be a band-minus-JLB effort

[hefdaddy42]

Everyone makes JM a little pushover who is just going with the flow.  Give him a little more credit and faith.

Well, that is seemingly what he's doing.

[7StringedBeast]

And everything he is doing right now is best for the song I'm sure.  There is not much room to do much fancy bass work in these heavy songs.  The fact that Myung can double JPs guitars is extremely impressive.  He is definitely the hardest worker as far as playing goes.  He never stops moving, and on a bass it's brutal.

Listen to some of his lines in ITPOE part 1, they are really really good.  I think he's just playing what fits the song.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  If the song writing changes and their style starts to shift from the non stop heavy stuff I'm sure Myung's bass playing will change as well.  There is simply no room for fancy "outside" bass playing when the objective of a part or song is to be heavy.  The bass needs to cover the low end and create a solid foundation in those instances.  After all, that is the primary objective of the instrument.

[antigoon]

I'm sorry, but I don't think heaviness is an excuse for inaudible bass.

[7StringedBeast]

I'm sorry, but I don't think heaviness is an excuse for inaudible bass.

  JM's bass is FAAAAR from inaudible.  Seriously.

[antigoon]

Have you heard Raw Dog?

[7StringedBeast]

Not on a good pair of speakers just built in laptop.  I'm sure its audible.  I'd bet a lot of money on it.  And honestly, that instrumental doesn't really mean anything to me.  It's just kind of this strange one off thing. 

[PlaysLikeMyung]

And everything he is doing right now is best for the song I'm sure.  There is not much room to do much fancy bass work in these heavy songs.  The fact that Myung can double JPs guitars is extremely impressive.  He is definitely the hardest worker as far as playing goes.  He never stops moving, and on a bass it's brutal.

I can definitely appreciate this. However, it seems to a lot of us that he's taken a backseat role to all the writing lately. I mean, out of the last two albums, there are only a few tracks where the bass playing stands out from the rest of the band (The Best of Times, ITPOE, etc)

Whereas on FII, he's all over the place. Using the Chapman Stick on New Millennium was great because he got a chance to BE the lead. Trial of Tears is pretty much John Myung soloing over everyone else. His harmonic lick in Lines in the Sand slaps me in the face every time I hear it. The groove on Take Away My Pain and Burning My Soul are fantastic. That album really showcases his work far better than any of the recent albums could...

[ZBomber]

And everything he is doing right now is best for the song I'm sure.  There is not much room to do much fancy bass work in these heavy songs.  The fact that Myung can double JPs guitars is extremely impressive.  He is definitely the hardest worker as far as playing goes.  He never stops moving, and on a bass it's brutal.

I can definitely appreciate this. However, it seems to a lot of us that he's taken a backseat role to all the writing lately. I mean, out of the last two albums, there are only a few tracks where the bass playing stands out from the rest of the band (The Best of Times, ITPOE, etc)

Whereas on FII, he's all over the place. Using the Chapman Stick on New Millennium was great because he got a chance to BE the lead. Trial of Tears is pretty much John Myung soloing over everyone else. His harmonic lick in Lines in the Sand slaps me in the face every time I hear it. The groove on Take Away My Pain and Burning My Soul are fantastic. That album really showcases his work far better than any of the recent albums could...

Agreed. FII is one of JMX's best albums. His work on that is not only incredible, but extremely up front in the mix.

[7StringedBeast]

Yeah, but simply put, DT isn't writing that style of music anymore. 

[Adami]

Yeah, but simply put, DT isn't writing that style of music anymore. 

There's nothing wrong with doubling JP's stuff. However, when you have a bassist like JM, and all he does is come in and learn what other people wrote and double it, it's depressing, whether or not it fits the music.

[Volk9]

Yeah, but simply put, DT isn't writing that style of music anymore. 

There's nothing wrong with doubling JP's stuff. However, when you have a bassist like JM, and all he does is come in and learn what other people wrote and double it, it's depressing, whether or not it fits the music.