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Offline lordxizor

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #315 on: December 22, 2023, 05:51:51 AM »
13 years $375 million is what I think I saw? Insane for a player who has never played in the MLB. If the best players are going to get these kinds of contracts, there are only maybe 5 teams that can compete for the best free agents. This can't be good for baseball.

Offline orcus116

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #316 on: December 22, 2023, 07:34:29 AM »
That's a lot of money to spend to be bounced out of the first round of the playoffs every year like usual.

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #317 on: December 22, 2023, 02:57:04 PM »
That's a lot of money to spend to be bounced out of the first round of the playoffs every year like usual.
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #318 on: December 24, 2023, 07:30:46 PM »
That's a lot of money to spend to be bounced out of the first round of the playoffs every year like usual.

Except for 2017, 2018, 2020, and 2021.

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #319 on: December 24, 2023, 07:34:46 PM »
That's a lot of money to spend to be bounced out of the first round of the playoffs every year like usual.

Except for 2017, 2018, 2020, and 2021.
Eh, they were still bounced out of playoffs in '21, and lost the World Series in '17 and '18.

If they don't get to the World Series in '24 with Ohtani and Yamamoto, that's a lot of wasted money.
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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #320 on: December 30, 2023, 01:41:07 PM »
Sox trade Chris Sale to Atlanta, but are still paying $17m of his $27m salary for this year.
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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #321 on: January 23, 2024, 05:10:55 PM »
I see that tonight, the baseball writers are having their Annual Stupidity Party.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline orcus116

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #322 on: January 23, 2024, 09:27:42 PM »
I think the writers need to come up with some strict guidelines to weed out the dinosaurs who only vote for one, two, or even no players or who have that "no one is a first round Hall of Fame" mentality. Voting rights should have term limits unless the writer happens to be well respected in the field.

Offline pg1067

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #323 on: January 24, 2024, 10:38:24 AM »
That's a lot of money to spend to be bounced out of the first round of the playoffs every year like usual.

Except for 2017, 2018, 2020, and 2021.
Eh, they were still bounced out of playoffs in '21, and lost the World Series in '17 and '18.

If they don't get to the World Series in '24 with Ohtani and Yamamoto, that's a lot of wasted money.

Every year, 29 teams either are "bounced out of the playoffs" in some manner or don't make them at all.  Does that mean the ~9 billion in combined salary of those 29 teams is "wasted money"?  I don't get that reasoning.


I see that tonight, the baseball writers are having their Annual Stupidity Party.

Meaning?

By my estimation, the three guys who got in probably should be in.  Beltre's a no-brainer.  Mauer was one of two elite catchers in his era, an MVP, and a multi-time top-10 MVP candidate.  Helton is more iffy.  He has the Coors Field thing working against him, and, despite playing at that park, he didn't hit any of the "magic" numbers.  Ten straight full seasons with a BA between .302 and .372 means something, regardless of where you play.

Looking at the names of guys who didn't get in, I think Sheffield and Beltran should have made it (and I think at least Sheffield will when his "era" comes up in whatever they're calling the Veteran's Committee now).  I think the same about Rodriguez and Ramirez, but I don't give a crap about steroids/PEDs.  I'm on the fence about Wagner.

What truly baffles me is that guys like David Wright and Torii Hunter not only got votes, but they got enough votes to stay on the ballot for next year.  One guy even voted for Brandon Phillips!  I'd love to hear that guy explain why he thought Brandon Phillips belongs in the HOF.


I think the writers need to come up with some strict guidelines to weed out the dinosaurs who only vote for one, two, or even no players or who have that "no one is a first round Hall of Fame" mentality. Voting rights should have term limits unless the writer happens to be well respected in the field.

How could that possibly work?  Which of these guys ( https://bbwaa.com/24-hof-voters/ ) isn't "well respected in the field"?  I'll start:  Rob Parker is a complete idiot, but I probably only recognize maybe a dozen names on the list.
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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #324 on: January 24, 2024, 12:28:10 PM »
I see that tonight, the baseball writers are having their Annual Stupidity Party.

Meaning?

By my estimation, the three guys who got in probably should be in.  Beltre's a no-brainer.  Mauer was one of two elite catchers in his era, an MVP, and a multi-time top-10 MVP candidate.  Helton is more iffy.  He has the Coors Field thing working against him, and, despite playing at that park, he didn't hit any of the "magic" numbers.  Ten straight full seasons with a BA between .302 and .372 means something, regardless of where you play.

Looking at the names of guys who didn't get in, I think Sheffield and Beltran should have made it (and I think at least Sheffield will when his "era" comes up in whatever they're calling the Veteran's Committee now).  I think the same about Rodriguez and Ramirez, but I don't give a crap about steroids/PEDs.  I'm on the fence about Wagner.



Beltre a no brainer? I guess. I liked him, but how he's in before A-Rod is embarrassing. At least he was better than Scott Rolen.

Mauer...I don't really have an issue with.

Helton....that's a joke. Roids/Colorado air? That's like Bagwell and Biggio getting in but not A-Rod or Manny. 


How on earth does Billy Wagner even get a sniff but Clemens is not in? It's a joke.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #325 on: January 24, 2024, 01:41:51 PM »
The elite of the elite should only get in.  These 3 are very good players but could you give a defining moment for either of them?  I can't. 
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Offline pg1067

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #326 on: January 24, 2024, 04:21:18 PM »
Beltre a no brainer? I guess. I liked him, but how he's in before A-Rod is embarrassing. At least he was better than Scott Rolen.

Mauer...I don't really have an issue with.

Helton....that's a joke. Roids/Colorado air? That's like Bagwell and Biggio getting in but not A-Rod or Manny. 


How on earth does Billy Wagner even get a sniff but Clemens is not in? It's a joke.

Well...you're sort of preaching to the choir.  The HOF will lack legitimacy until guys like Joe Jackson, Rose, Bonds, Clemens, Rodriguez, etc. get in OR they go back and remove everyone else who "cheated" (e.g., Gaylord Perry, who not only cheated but wore it as a badge of honor).  However, I don't hold those ridiculous exclusions against other guys.  Also, my left testicle was more deserving of induction than Scott Rolen (to say nothing of possibly the single least-deserving HOF'er, Phil Rizzuto).


The elite of the elite should only get in.  These 3 are very good players but could you give a defining moment for either of them?  I can't. 

Part of the problem with that is that Beltre, Mauer and Helton only played a combined 53 playoff games in their careers, and Mauer's team never got past the divisional round.  Also, had Neftali Feliz, Nelson Cruz and Ron Washington not self-torpedoed the Rangers in game 6 of the 2011 World Series, Beltre would very likely have a WS MVP on his resume.  Beltre would also have an NL MVP if he didn't have the misfortune of playing for the Dodgers during the height of Barry Bonds' career (in 2004, Beltre hit 3 more HR and had 20 more RBI than Bonds).
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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #327 on: January 24, 2024, 04:25:59 PM »
Beltre would also have an NL MVP if he didn't have the misfortune of playing for the Dodgers during the height of Barry Bonds' career (in 2004, Beltre hit 3 more HR and had 20 more RBI than Bonds).

He also didn't get his roids from Balco either.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #328 on: January 24, 2024, 04:57:36 PM »
Pg, that should be an indictment on them making the hall.
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #329 on: January 25, 2024, 08:12:21 AM »
The elite of the elite should only get in.  These 3 are very good players but could you give a defining moment for either of them?  I can't. 
to me you put in guys that are the best or maybe top 3 of their era at their position. Its hard to hold against a player that their team didnt make it far into the playoffs of win a series. I also feel like if they're not an obvious first ballot HOFer that maybe means they're not good enough to get in.

And I think that the steroid Era guys should be in the hall.

Offline pg1067

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #330 on: January 25, 2024, 10:09:43 AM »
Pg, that should be an indictment on them making the hall.

I get what you're saying, but I don't agree.  It's not like the NHL back in the day when 16 of the 23 teams made the playoffs.  MLB still has the lowest percentage of teams make the playoffs.  It's 14 of 30 teams now, but it was only 8-10 of 30 when Beltre, Mauer and Helton played.  After all, we don't hold it against Ernie Banks that he never played a postseason game.  And all three guys put up postseason numbers consistent with their regular season numbers.


I also feel like if they're not an obvious first ballot HOFer that maybe means they're not good enough to get in.

In a perfect world, I agree, but unless we're going to go back and purge guys like Rizzuto, I don't think you can start now to impose such a lofty standard.

I love this quote about Rizzuto being in the HOF:  "Many undeserving men are in the Baseball Hall of Fame mostly for having the good sense to be New York Yankees between 1920 and 1960.  Rizzuto is a prime example, a below-average hitter who once won an MVP he didn't have any place winning, and who wedged his way into the Hall mostly on that basis."

Even Rizzuto agreed:  "I never thought I deserved to be in the Hall of Fame.  The Hall of Fame is for the big guys, pitchers with 100 mph fastballs and hitters who sock homers and drive in a lot of runs.  That's the way it always has been, and the way it should be."
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Offline pg1067

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #331 on: January 25, 2024, 10:34:36 AM »
Facebook has a thing called "Memories," which is simply a collection of shit you posted on the same day in prior years.  My post from this day in 2022:  "The legitimacy of the baseball HOF is pretty much nil at this point."  That was the year that David Ortiz got elected and Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Curt Schilling fell off the ballot.

Anyway...I think looked at what next year's HOF election will look like.  It'll be Billy Wagner's last year of eligibility.  He got 73.8% of the vote this year, so I'll bet $5 he makes it next year.  I don't think any other repeat candidate will make it.  Ichiro Suzuki will be a first-ballot election next year.  C.C. Sabathia has an outside shot, but I don't think any of the other first-year candidates next year have any chance at all.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #332 on: January 25, 2024, 10:42:52 AM »
TBH, I think the voters need to stop evaluating people via position. If you put Mauer in, why isn't Mattingly in? The latter was the better player at the plate, and is just, if not more decorated, at his position. I personally think both do NOT deserve it. But if you put in Mauer, Mattingly should be in. period. And there are plenty of other comparisons that could be made.

It's ridiculous that "he's a catcher, so he goes in because he was over .300, and had some gold gloves." Really?

I know I made that very generic and simple, but bottom line, players should be evaluated REGARDLESS of position. A view of whether their achievements as a major league baseball player were some of the best of all-time. If there's doubt, it's no. Simple as that.

Baseball HOF is a money-maker, which is why it is the Hall of Very Good now.

Really sad.
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #333 on: January 25, 2024, 03:30:48 PM »
TBH, I think the voters need to stop evaluating people via position. If you put Mauer in, why isn't Mattingly in? The latter was the better player at the plate, and is just, if not more decorated, at his position. I personally think both do NOT deserve it. But if you put in Mauer, Mattingly should be in. period. And there are plenty of other comparisons that could be made.

It's ridiculous that "he's a catcher, so he goes in because he was over .300, and had some gold gloves." Really?

I know I made that very generic and simple, but bottom line, players should be evaluated REGARDLESS of position. A view of whether their achievements as a major league baseball player were some of the best of all-time. If there's doubt, it's no. Simple as that.

Baseball HOF is a money-maker, which is why it is the Hall of Very Good now.

Really sad.
I disagree. I think players qualifications should be compared against other players at the same position. Elite catchers are different types of players than elite outfielders or elite second basemen.

Offline pg1067

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #334 on: January 25, 2024, 03:46:02 PM »
TBH, I think the voters need to stop evaluating people via position. If you put Mauer in, why isn't Mattingly in? The latter was the better player at the plate, and is just, if not more decorated, at his position. I personally think both do NOT deserve it. But if you put in Mauer, Mattingly should be in. period. And there are plenty of other comparisons that could be made.

I think position has to be part of the calculus (as does the era in which they played), but the Mattingly comparison is going to haunt the HOF until he gets in.  If you look at Mattingly in a vacuum, I think the argument that he shouldn't be in is stronger than the argument that he should be in.  However, they've put in so many marginal guys like Rolen and Baines that it's now much harder to argue against Mattingly (and guys like Fred McGriff)
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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #335 on: February 01, 2024, 07:50:44 AM »
What the heck, I'll chime in. I'm neither a "small-Hall" guy or "big-Hall" guy, but more medium Hall. So I'm in the mindset that 2 of the 3 are deserving.

Helton I feel is the least deserving; a really good player but his home-road splits are significant just like every other Coors Field phenomenon. People might not realize how good Beltre was but modern analytics have highlighted what a dominant defender he was in addition to being a really solid hitter for a long time. As far as Mauer goes, catchers generally have much shorter careers and Mauer packed a lot of great into his. Not a lot of catchers make the Hall so he seems like a good addition.

As others have stated, it's all kind of farce until some of the greatest players we've ever seen get elected. The steroids baloney has been played out, the guys under suspicion have paid a price by having to wait this long. Time to put them in. Bonds & Clemens next year, A-Rod and whoever the following year, etc.

Offline pg1067

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #336 on: March 20, 2024, 09:53:44 AM »
Probably time for a new thread....

The 2024 MLB season began this morning.  Did anyone notice?

The Dodgers apparently beat the Padres 5-2 in Seoul, South Korea.  The game was over before I got in my car to drive to work.  The Dodgers station is repeating the game at noon.  Don't really think it's going to be interesting to listen to a radio broadcast of a game where I know the outcome.

I'm honestly not sure what the point of these games is.  Baseball is already huge in countries like Japan and South Korea.  Dodger fans are barking at each other on social media, with those who got up to watch/listen to a 3am game telling those of us who like sleep that we're not "real" fans.  I'm really not sure what benefit MLB gets that justifies the massive cost (economic and otherwise).
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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #337 on: March 20, 2024, 10:40:34 AM »
Americas Pastime. So of course they’ll start the season in Korea.  :facepalm:
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Offline pg1067

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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #338 on: March 20, 2024, 01:21:59 PM »
I just looked and saw that they did a bunch of games in Japan in 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012 and 2019.  The Dodgers and Diamondbacks did games in Sydney, Australia in 2014.  They've also done a bunch of games in Mexico and, more recently, London.  Sydney and London make sense in that they're trying to drum up interest in non-traditional markets, and Mexico isn't a big deal since it shares time zones with the U.S.

The Dodgers played their last Cactus League game on March 13, then played exhibition games against Korean teams on the 16th and 18th.  The games this morning and tomorrow morning are regular season games, and then they're playing the traditional Freeway Series exhibition games next Sunday through Monday before playing regular season games starting next Thursday.  I assume the Padres have a similarly stupid schedule.  Makes ZERO sense.

Frankly, I don't know why MLB abandoned the traditional opening day game in Cincinnati.
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Re: 2023 MLB Thread
« Reply #339 on: March 20, 2024, 06:52:44 PM »
So, Ohtani is at the least implicated in placing bets with an illegal bookie, and at worst had his interpreter take the fall for him…

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39768770/dodgers-shohei-ohtani-interpreter-fired-theft