The official Avantasia and Edguy thread v Moonflower Society - Oct 21st

[RodrigoAltaf]

I don't know how to phrase it nicely, but I'd love to know why he's got himself stuck using the same guest vocalists to do the same style songs each album.  But a more neutral question might be how do you decide on your guest singers?

It's a valid thought if you phrase it right.  How about;

"Avantasia has become a well oiled machine and seems to be firing on all cylinders with some of the guest vocalists you have almost cementing their roles and place within the band.  Have you had any thought on doing an album with all fresh new vocalists under the Avantasia name, or are guys like Kiske, Catley and Tate too much in the blood now of the Avantasia name"

Something like that but maybe not so wordy?

I just finished compiling all the questions, and this one is really good. I'll fit that in, man! Thanks!

[wolfking]

I don't know how to phrase it nicely, but I'd love to know why he's got himself stuck using the same guest vocalists to do the same style songs each album.  But a more neutral question might be how do you decide on your guest singers?

It's a valid thought if you phrase it right.  How about;

"Avantasia has become a well oiled machine and seems to be firing on all cylinders with some of the guest vocalists you have almost cementing their roles and place within the band.  Have you had any thought on doing an album with all fresh new vocalists under the Avantasia name, or are guys like Kiske, Catley and Tate too much in the blood now of the Avantasia name"

Something like that but maybe not so wordy?

I just finished compiling all the questions, and this one is really good. I'll fit that in, man! Thanks!

Woah, you don't have to man, I don't really care to be honest, was just expanding on Marc's post, but happy to help if it's something you want to ask.  Don't blame me if Tobi gets pissed at you though. 

[RodrigoAltaf]

I don't know how to phrase it nicely, but I'd love to know why he's got himself stuck using the same guest vocalists to do the same style songs each album.  But a more neutral question might be how do you decide on your guest singers?

It's a valid thought if you phrase it right.  How about;

"Avantasia has become a well oiled machine and seems to be firing on all cylinders with some of the guest vocalists you have almost cementing their roles and place within the band.  Have you had any thought on doing an album with all fresh new vocalists under the Avantasia name, or are guys like Kiske, Catley and Tate too much in the blood now of the Avantasia name"

Something like that but maybe not so wordy?

I just finished compiling all the questions, and this one is really good. I'll fit that in, man! Thanks!

Woah, you don't have to man, I don't really care to be honest, was just expanding on Marc's post, but happy to help if it's something you want to ask.  Don't blame me if Tobi gets pissed at you though. 

I don't think he'll be mad, but we'll see.

[TAC]

I'd ask him why he doesn't shut the hell up and just let Kiske sing the whole song by himself. 

[wolfking]

I don't know how to phrase it nicely, but I'd love to know why he's got himself stuck using the same guest vocalists to do the same style songs each album.  But a more neutral question might be how do you decide on your guest singers?

It's a valid thought if you phrase it right.  How about;

"Avantasia has become a well oiled machine and seems to be firing on all cylinders with some of the guest vocalists you have almost cementing their roles and place within the band.  Have you had any thought on doing an album with all fresh new vocalists under the Avantasia name, or are guys like Kiske, Catley and Tate too much in the blood now of the Avantasia name"

Something like that but maybe not so wordy?

I just finished compiling all the questions, and this one is really good. I'll fit that in, man! Thanks!

Woah, you don't have to man, I don't really care to be honest, was just expanding on Marc's post, but happy to help if it's something you want to ask.  Don't blame me if Tobi gets pissed at you though. 

I don't think he'll be mad, but we'll see.

   Just send him my way if he does.

[wolfking]

I'd ask him why he doesn't shut the hell up and just let Kiske sing the whole song by himself. 

He is a little man, but there is nothing little about his ego.  I get it though, each song is his creation so it would probably feel wrong for him not to be part of it.

[MirrorMask]

Speaking of the same guest singers, I think part of the "Avantasia surprise wearing off" is that, with the same singer, you get basically the same kind of songs.

Kiske gets the anthemic power metal bombastic song. Catley gets the melodic uplifting song with the "voice of conscience". Jorn gets the epic song. A woman gets the ballad.

Of course this is not set in stone, but even with such a stellar cast there are only so many ways you can reinvent the wheel...

[ErHaO]

I'd ask him why he doesn't shut the hell up and just let Kiske sing the whole song by himself. 

He is a little man, but there is nothing little about his ego.  I get it though, each song is his creation so it would probably feel wrong for him not to be part of it.

I gotta be honest, I would greatly prefer the Ayreon rock opera appproach vs having all singers have a guest spot, which is how it feels to me in Avantasia. And have the singers interact more with each other instead of mainly Tobi. There are many songs that I feel would be better if Tobi hadn't sung on them and just let the "guest" do his/her thing.

[soupytwist]

I'm really looking forward to it, even if it's not top tier Avantasia (Opera 2, Babylon and Mystery) it'll still most likely be a solid album with some great songs.

[wolfking]

I'd ask him why he doesn't shut the hell up and just let Kiske sing the whole song by himself. 

He is a little man, but there is nothing little about his ego.  I get it though, each song is his creation so it would probably feel wrong for him not to be part of it.

I gotta be honest, I would greatly prefer the Ayreon rock opera appproach vs having all singers have a guest spot, which is how it feels to me in Avantasia. And have the singers interact more with each other instead of mainly Tobi. There are many songs that I feel would be better if Tobi hadn't sung on them and just let the "guest" do his/her thing.

Can't disagree with that.

[cramx3]

I'd ask him why he doesn't shut the hell up and just let Kiske sing the whole song by himself. 

Rodrigo is going to have Tobi storm off on him during this interview 

[soupytwist]

First listen.  This is a pretty paired back album (for Avantasia) most of the songs are fairly straight forward power metal rockers that run under 5 minutes, probably the closest Avantasia have come to making an Edguy album.  Misplaced among Angels was the instant standout.

[wolfking]

First listen.  This is a pretty paired back album (for Avantasia) most of the songs are fairly straight forward power metal rockers that run under 5 minutes, probably the closest Avantasia have come to making an Edguy album.  Misplaced among Angels was the instant standout.

This actually has me more interested.

[jingle.boy]

I just spun it - enjoyed it and all, but the only thing that feels "Edguy" about this to me, is the track lengths.  It sounds like Avantasia paint (listen) by numbers afaic.  Nothing new here. 

[TAC]

Geoff Tate sounds nice on this.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Paper Plane, Arabesque and the Floor track are my favorites.

[Samsara]

What tracks does Tate and Kiske appear on? I am only in this for Tate and Kiske.

[Grappler]

What tracks does Tate and Kiske appear on? I am only in this for Tate and Kiske.

Tate:   Scars

Kiske:  The Innost Light; Arabesque


It's all on youtube today.   I'm digging Kill the Pain Away with Floor Jansen, along with the above songs.

[soupytwist]

Paper Plane, Arabesque and the Floor track are my favorites.

Paper Plane musically reminds me of Lost In Space.

[Samsara]

Thanks Grapp. Wow, Tate is only on one, and Kiske just two?

[TAC]

Thanks Grapp. Wow, Tate is only on one, and Kiske just two?

Yeah but they both kill.   

[Samsara]

Thanks Grapp. Wow, Tate is only on one, and Kiske just two?

Yeah but they both kill.   

Is that Tate doing the high parts though? I hear Tobi in there when it gets higher. The last "scaaaars" at the end of the tune is not Tate, not to my ear.

[Grappler]

That's definitely Tobi at the end of the song.  Tate is singing alone at 1:05 in the first chorus.  The second chorus sounds like they're both singing together - Tate takes the first line with Tobi going high behind him.  Then Tobi takes the next line or two and it sounds like Geoff goes higher at 2:03. 

It's cool to hear them trade off lines and high parts.

[Samsara]

It IS cool. I'll probably buy the tracks (Take and Kiske)

[nick_z]

After one listen, the track with Tate is definitely one of my favorites...

[cramx3]

I've had it on at work today, so not paying too close attention, but it may be better than what I initially expected but my expectations kind of were low from the singles. Kill the Pain Away and Arabesque stood out the most initially.  Honestly need more listens though to say much more.

[The Realm]

After one listen, the track with Tate is definitely one of my favorites...

Came here to say the same thing. One listen in, I really enjoyed Tate's vocals and song.

[TAC]

Holy shit, the CD is $18 on Amazon. WTF???

[TAC]

For anyone who has the CD, I'd be interested to know who did the guitar solos in each song.
The solo at 7:50 of Arabesque is nice. Sounds like Brian May.

[Zoom E]

Holy shit, the CD is $18 on Amazon. WTF???

It's $32 on Amazon Canada, which is a $10 increase from what the price was yesterday.

Amazon Canada’s prices have just become obscene in the last few years. The new Arena CD is $58 on pre-order, for just a standard CD.

[MirrorMask]

Listening to the album as a whole makes for a better experience, I have to say, it's slowly growing on me.

I'm still afraid my personal Avantasia tastes have peaked with Ghostlights and that no new effort will top it. I have to say, I kinda believe Tobi's hype - yeah, he has a huge ego and acts larger than life when he talks about his music but his passion is genuine, when he said that he had all the freedom and time he had to make his ultimate masterpiece, I kinda believed him. If he says over and over that this is his most personal album where he did everything the way he wanted with the time he wanted, I expected a bit more than "just another (good) Avantasia album".

Let the Storm Descend Upon You sounds very inspired, The Great Mystery sound very passionate and inspired, just to name two utter masterpieces. He already wrote those songs so no need to copy them, but I was expecting some truly "wow!!!!" songs. This is probably the album where the guests don't feel integrated into the album, but just a checklist. Power metal anthemic song, get Kiske. Melodic song, get Floor. AOR song, get Catley. Only in the final epic song there's more than a singer.... where is the interplay of voices like in Book of Shallows? where are the cool little things like Jorn having a bridge in Ghostlights to add a bit of variety to the song?

Also, some songs feel like they end too suddenly (like I Tame the Storm) or they could have had the chorus repeated twice. Take Welcome to the Shadows, the ultra Burtonian opener, after such a long atmospheric intro, the chorus comes and then stops immediately? that chorus and Kill the Pain Away could have been a bit longer. Then again, it's always better to keep it short. than going the "Don't you think I'm a saviour" route, but it felt weird to have such bombastic choruses cut off way too soon.

All in all, the songs are great and solid. Paper Plane is probably the most sappy and forgettable one, especially considering how awesome is the other ballad, Misplaced Among the Angels. I Tame the Storm is nice but pales confronted with the other Jorn songs. Even the Tate song is no Seduction of Decay.

I'm sure I'll warm up more to the album in the next days, and it's unfair to Tobi to judge him against his insanely high standards he himself set with many Avantasia masterpieces, but if the best he has to offer with all the time and creativity he needed (his words, over and over!) is "just another good Avantasia album", maybe it's better to take a pause for a while and get new singers and new perspectives. Even the awesome The Raven Child, on the previous album, was relying on the Scarecrow trick of a fast final section sung by Jorn, there are only so many variations of power metal songs for Kiske, melodic songs for Catley and energetic songs for Lande left before getting a feeling of scraping the barrel....

[wolfking]

For anyone who has the CD, I'd be interested to know who did the guitar solos in each song.
The solo at 7:50 of Arabesque is nice. Sounds like Brian May.

Isn't it just Sascha and Oli Hartmann on guitars?

[TAC]

For anyone who has the CD, I'd be interested to know who did the guitar solos in each song.
The solo at 7:50 of Arabesque is nice. Sounds like Brian May.

Isn't it just Sascha and Oli Hartmann on guitars?

I have no clue who the musicians are. I didn't get the CD. There are some great solos on this though.

[soupytwist]

I think having spent the weekend with this album I'd rank it currently alongside Metal Opera 2 and Mystery of Time.  These 3 albums better than Babylon (their weakest imo) but not as good as the rest.  That's not a bad thing as I still really like these albums they just don't match the greatness of the others.

Oh and Misplaced among the Angel is an instant classic.

[wolfking]

For anyone who has the CD, I'd be interested to know who did the guitar solos in each song.
The solo at 7:50 of Arabesque is nice. Sounds like Brian May.

Isn't it just Sascha and Oli Hartmann on guitars?

I have no clue who the musicians are. I didn't get the CD. There are some great solos on this though.

Interesting.  I'll get around to listening to this album eventually.  I would assume since that's the long closer it would be Sascha.