The official Avantasia and Edguy thread v Moonflower Society - Oct 21st

[MirrorMask]

This album is awesome. The initial run of the first 6 songs kicks ass beyond belief. This doesn't mean that what comes after Runaway Train is subpar, there are many good songs until the end of the album, but the first six... wow. Just wow.

The Wicked Symphony has one of the very best choruses, the triple attack of vocalists is wonderful.
Wastelands... I prefer Shelter from the Rain to it, but still, an awesome power metal song righteously sang by Kiske.
Scales of Justice is probably the heaviest Avantasia song ever and Ripper just SLAYS!!!
Dying for an Angel is the ultimate heavy metal radio friendly song and I'm sure that, even though they won't admit it, many other bands in the scene WISHED they would have wrote that. It's the perfect crossover song and it's wonderful in his own right.
Blizzard has another stellar performance from Andrè Matos, and I love the mellow interlude (Fortune favors just the brave)
Runaway Train, well, what can be said? Avantasia goes Meat Loaf, and everyone here is at the top of his game. Bob Catley enchants with his voice at the beginning, Jorn Lande kills it in the choruses (I daresay his passages in this song are among the very best vocal moments of Avantasia, period), and I love the piano heavy second part, which culminates in the Queen-esque "Riding on to a world of funny flowers" part. Really, a utter masterpiece.

Out of the rest, I'd say Forever is a Long Time and The Edge shine through. Also States of Matter has great vocal lines from Russell. Kickass album!!!

[wolfking]

fwiw .............a local reviewer I know who's had Moonglow for a while reckons Tate shines and puts in his best performance since Promised Land.  That might not be saying much but it was conveyed quite enthusiastically.

He was okay on the last album so if his voice has improved this could be accurate.  Good to hear at least that he's holding his own it seems with the rest of the singers.

[Samsara]

fwiw .............a local reviewer I know who's had Moonglow for a while reckons Tate shines and puts in his best performance since Promised Land.  That might not be saying much but it was conveyed quite enthusiastically.

He was okay on the last album so if his voice has improved this could be accurate.  Good to hear at least that he's holding his own it seems with the rest of the singers.

Not surprising to me. He sounded great on Ghostlights, and seems to really have a passion for the art rock/metal opera vibe Tobi does with Avantasia. So it comes out in his performance. Plus, Tobi is writing the melodies, and probably guided Tate to what he wanted. Chris did that with Geoff too, and obviously, it got the best out of Tate. So the fact he's delivering with Tobi comes as no surprise to me. He's paying Tate to appear on the album, and directing what Geoff does. That helps.

[cramx3]

+1 on the Runaway Train love, fantastic song.  Probably my favorite on the album behind the title track.  I've always felt the rest of the album was hit or miss, I love the single and love how he got Klaus to do it as that guy has just a monster voice IMO and is also a huge name.  I do think this is one of their most diverse sounding albums though and maybe that's why it's a bit of hit or miss for me. 

[Grappler]

Re-listening to the album now so I can add some comments.  This was the disc that I gravitated to right away when Scarecrow/Wicked Symphony/Angel of Babylon were delivered all together.  Over time, I've come to love the Scarecrow more.

The title track is awesome, but I've only really dug it over the last 3 years when I saw that they played it live on the Ghostlights tour. 

Can't stand Runaway Train. 

I think I like Shelter in the Rain over Wastelands, but if we're talking about Kiske power metal Avantasia songs, Ghostlights is my favorite.

Scales of Justice is awesome and I love hearing Ripper just let loose all over that song. 

Dying for an Angel was my other introduction to this band.  Such a great song, and I love that he landed Klaus Meine to sing on it. 

Blizzard on a Broken Mirror is a really catchy song.  Crestfallen starts fun, but the chorus is more of an anti-chorus to me.  It's just not very catchy.  The tail end of the record isn't as killer as the first half is. 

[wolfking]

Can't stand Runaway Train. 

Thank you.

[TAC]

fwiw .............a local reviewer I know who's had Moonglow for a while reckons Tate shines and puts in his best performance since Promised Land.  That might not be saying much but it was conveyed quite enthusiastically.

He was okay on the last album so if his voice has improved this could be accurate.  Good to hear at least that he's holding his own it seems with the rest of the singers.

Not surprising to me. He sounded great on Ghostlights, and seems to really have a passion for the art rock/metal opera vibe Tobi does with Avantasia. So it comes out in his performance. Plus, Tobi is writing the melodies, and probably guided Tate to what he wanted. Chris did that with Geoff too, and obviously, it got the best out of Tate. So the fact he's delivering with Tobi comes as no surprise to me. He's paying Tate to appear on the album, and directing what Geoff does. That helps.

I'm not surprised either. It's what Tobi does. I predicted Tate would sound great on Ghostlights.. 

[cramx3]

Did he perform well with them though?  I feel like anyone can sound good on an album, but can he pull it off live?  I know he did some shows or a show with them.

[MirrorMask]

Well, keep in mind that the great thing about Avantasia is that, while the poor drummer probably nears death every night, for the singers it's relatively easy, because they take turn and even though it's a 3 hours show, I think we'd be surprised to count down the songs and see how few each of one them gets.... probably no more than 5-6 each, aside Tobi? it's not that terribly difficult to sing good 6 songs scattered through a set with plenty of breaks.

Then of course if those songs are difficult even pull them off one by one is hard... anyway, I found a clip on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcwA0rqw6d4

[cramx3]

Good point about not having to be the main singer, definitely helps sustain his voice for the tour.  I'm not a huge QR fan and really can't speak much for his vocals and I guess the downfall of them.  He sounds fine in the video.  It's also his song.  If he can sing like that, I think he'll be a fine replacement, but I do wonder if he can sing the other parts as well, but that wonder is mostly driven by the negative talk about his singing more so than my own experience since as I said, I'm not a huge QR fan anyway.

[The Walrus]

Moonglow's getting closer... Everyone knows I'm not crazy about this album or the next, but in 2 more weeks it's the Ghostlights retrospective and then MOONGLOW!



1. Stargazers
2. Angel of Babylon
3. Your Love Is Evil
4. Death Is Just A Feeling
5. Rat Race
6. Down In The Dark
7. Blowing Out The Flame
8. Symphony of Life
9. Alone I Remember
10. Promised Land
11. Journey to Arcadia

Lineup:
Tobias Sammet (vocals, bass)
Sascha Paeth (guitars)
Eric Singer (drums)
Miro (keyboards/orchestrations)

Guest musicians (copied from Metal Archives):

Emilie Paeth   Vocals (backing)
Amanda Somerville   Vocals (backing)
Tiffany Kirkland   Vocals (backing)
Ina Morgan   Vocals (backing)
Cinzia Rizzo   Vocals (backing)
Thomas Rettke   Vocals (backing)
Matthias Kontny   Vocals (backing)
Michael Voy   Vocals (backing)
Bruce Kulick   Guitars (tracks 1, 5, 11)
Oliver Hartmann   Guitars (tracks 1, 3), Vocals (lead) (track 1), Vocals (backing)
Henjo Richter   Guitars (track 10)
Felix Bohnke   Drums (tracks 4, 6, 8)
Alex Holzwarth   Drums (tracks 1, 2, 3, 11)
Jens Johansson   Keyboards (track 2)
Simon Oberender (R.I.P. 2012)   Organ (track 9)
Jørn Lande   Vocals (lead) (tracks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9, 10, 11)
Michael Kiske   Vocals (lead) (track 1)
Russell Allen   Vocals (lead) (tracks 1, 11)
Bob Catley   Vocals (lead) (track 11)
Cloudy Yang   Vocals (lead) (track 8), Vocals (backing)
Jon Oliva   Vocals (lead) (track 4)

Angel of Babylon is the black sheep of the Avantasia family to me. I didn't know what to think the first time I heard it, but I never warmed up to it, because it's still my least favorite Avantasia album.

I love everything about Stargazers. It's damn near flawless. It has some interesting songwriting for a power metal epic, and Tobi, Jorn, and Kiske are perfect, I never get tired of listening to Jorn's parts in this song. The title track is one of my favorite songs because of that immensely powerful bridge and chorus. Again, no idea what any of this stuff means, but it's cool as hell. I enjoy Your Love Is Evil as well, but this is around the point when - nitpick alert - I began to think Tobi didn't need to shout everything. Always wished the verses had a softer delivery. Such a catchy chorus though.

It's been years since I really gave this album a fair shot, and I think I've warmed up to it a little bit. The thing is, though, I still think the lyrical content is abysmal. Something about Wicked Symphony just makes it work for me, but the music on this album is very rarely epic. I find some of the verses and choruses catchy (Rat Race and Down In The Dark) but by and large, this is a plodding album that very rarely hits the mark. I would have been fine with trimming 2 songs from Symphony and most of the songs here and making one long epic album. Where is the speed? The epic shred solos? After the first 15 minutes it goes off the rails.

In listening to these songs again, I'm not upset by this album anymore because both Edguy and Avantasia's latest albums proved I can still love the new stuff, but I've got very little here I can say I like. Promised Land is awesome but this is one instance in which I preferred the original version with Kiske. It's a sound for sore ears being surrounded by midtempo rockers and bluesy ballads instead of anything half resembling metal.

Sorry for the negative vibes on this one, but that's just me. I'm curious if anyone really loves this album. I know the next one is beloved by lots of people here, too.

[TAC]

I never listen to this. mainly because of this guy:

[wolfking]

Don't talk about Jorn like that.

[MirrorMask]

I don't share that negativity towards the album, but yeah, all things said and done.... it's not the pinnacle of Avantasia. When (IMO of course) one of the standout songs is a short rock n' roll cheesy anthem (Your Love is Evil), then we have a problem 

I was never the biggest fan of Stargazers, not that I think it sucks, it's just one of those "yeah, the supermodel is hot but others are hotter" kind of things... but I warmed up to it in recent years.

Title track is absolutely fantastic and so is Death is Just a Feeling, Jon Oliva is awesome as he always is and if you listen to his stuff or when he plays the devil on TSO's Beethoven's last Night, you'd realize that it's his style of being evil and creepy.

As said the album is not really balanced, too much plodding, too much Jorn which of course isn't a problem anyway... Promised Land is another standout, and Blowing Out the Flame could have been an Edguy ballad anyway. I like  the weird feel of Symphony of Life, but I think Alone I Remember is the worst Avantasia track.

Journey to Arcadia is quite great but doesn't live up as epic closer of a trilogy of albums... still it's quite good and it was probably the template for the future "Bob Catley closing Avantasia songs".

I'd love to hear the title track live in the next tour!

[Kwyjibo]

For some unknown reasons I've never listened to this album. So convince that it's worth buying. 

[jingle.boy]

For me, Stargazers is the least best of any of the Avantasia 'epics' - and it certainly pales in comparison to The Scarecrow and The Wicked Symphony (tracks).  The album as a whole is decent enough, but certainly littered with some filler.  It's been a while since I spun it - which I'll do later today after getting thru todays new releases.  My recollection of it is that I didn't really dislike anything, but there are a couple of mediocre tracks.  Promised Land - I rarely listen to the Kiske version.  Frankly, I'll take the Flying Opera version all day long. 

Journey to Arcadia is quite great but doesn't live up as epic closer of a trilogy of albums... still it's quite good and it was probably the template for the future "Bob Catley closing Avantasia songs".

@ Tim... in your next roulette, I dare you to do a "Jorn" round.

[cramx3]

This album is like Wicked Symphony for me, some awesome songs and a bunch of duds.  I'm no fan of Jon Oliva either so a popular song does really nothing for me here.  I love Rat Race, Promised Land, and Stargazers (although this definitely is the lesser of the epics, but still awesome).

[The Walrus]

Hold up dawgs. Y'all think Spectres is better than Stargazers??

EDIT: title track for Moonglow released. I'll let you judge for yourself... meh. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vZGQ1LsdCUM

[Logain Ablar]

EDIT: title track for Moonglow released. I'll let you judge for yourself... meh. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vZGQ1LsdCUM

Mmm. I'm not really feeling it with the new track. Raven Child is miles better, IMO. For the title track, I expected a real belter.

[The Walrus]

Same. 3 listens in... doesn't sound inspired at all

[jingle.boy]

Hold up dawgs. Y'all think Spectres is better than Stargazers??

I'd say they're on a level playing field for me. 

[cramx3]

Hold up dawgs. Y'all think Spectres is better than Stargazers??

I dont

[Polarbear]

Hold up dawgs. Y'all think Spectres is better than Stargazers??

EDIT: title track for Moonglow released. I'll let you judge for yourself... meh. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vZGQ1LsdCUM

Sounds like a modern Nightwish song to me..

I don't know why people got issues with it, it's catchy! Better than some of the other poppy songs in their discography.

[cramx3]

I'm looking forward to checking out the song later or maybe tonight

[Lowdz]

Hmm. Not his best. It all seems a bit rushed, no room for the song to breathe.

[Ben_Jamin]

I thought I imported the cd onto itunes, guess not. I don't want to dig through my cd collection either. Spotify it is.

[MirrorMask]

Wow, doesn't even feel like it's Candice singing!

Chorus is catchy, but dunno, it could have been more bombastic, maybe with more choirs and a more powerful singer, dunno...

Good song anyway, not gonna make me scream "OMG OMG CAN'T WAIT ANYMORE FOR THE ALBUM" however.

[Ben_Jamin]

Jon Oliva is a good vocalist but I cant stand his voice in Death is A Feeling, especially in the intro.

[Evermind]

Hold up dawgs. Y'all think Spectres is better than Stargazers??

Wait what? I thought we were comparing epics, not openers.

Also Stargazers kicks ass. My epics ranking is:

The Scarecrow > Savior in the Clockwork > The Seven Angels > (The Raven Child is probably there) > Stargazers > The Wicked Symphony > The Tower  > Let the Storm Descend Upon You

Edit: new song is pretty good btw, nothing spectacular, but pretty refreshing to hear Candice sing like this. I like it.

[TAC]

@ Tim... in your next roulette, I dare you to do a "Jorn" round.

[jingle.boy]

Hold up dawgs. Y'all think Spectres is better than Stargazers??

Wait what? I thought we were comparing epics, not openers.

Also Stargazers kicks ass. My epics ranking is:

The Scarecrow > Savior in the Clockwork > The Seven Angels > (The Raven Child is probably there) > Stargazers > The Wicked Symphony > The Tower  > Let the Storm Descend Upon You

Edit: new song is pretty good btw, nothing spectacular, but pretty refreshing to hear Candice sing like this. I like it.

Brain cramp... when he said Spectres, my mind read 'Savior'.  I'd put Savior and Stargazer at the same level.

And holy shit Ruslan... Let the Storm Descend Upon You is (in my books) right up there with The Scarecrow.  Absolutely love that track.

Ranking the Epics - since 'ranking' is what we do here at DTF

The Scarecrow
Let the Storm Descend Upon You
The Wicked Symphony
The Great Mystery
The Seven Angels
<for now, Raven Child>
Stargazers
Savior In The Clockwork
The Tower

[cramx3]

I'm looking forward to checking out the song later or maybe tonight

Yea, definitely not as good as The Raven Child, but not terrible.  The second half is much better.  Not really what I expected for the title track but not a terrible song.  So are they going to do this live with Adrienne?

[The Walrus]

Hold up dawgs. Y'all think Spectres is better than Stargazers??

Wait what? I thought we were comparing epics, not openers.

I don't know why I counted that as an epic. Probably because I never listen to it and forgot it's only 6 minutes. So scratch that comment.    I guess just the habit of kicking off the albums with epic songs had me thinking that way.

I would say, from favorite to least favorite:

The Seven Angels
The Wicked Symphony
Stargazers
The Scarecrow (despite the incredible first and third parts, the middle section gets skipped, so #4 it is)
The Tower
Let The Storm Descend Upon You
The Raven Child (tentatively)
Savior in the Clockwork
The Great Mystery

[wolfking]

Hold up dawgs. Y'all think Spectres is better than Stargazers??

Yes.  Sasha's awful long winded pathetic excuse of self indulgent shred makes me really want to punch him in the face!

[The Walrus]

1. Spectres
2. The Watchmaker's Dream
3. Black Orchid
4. Where Clock Hands Freeze
5. Sleepwalking
6. Savior In The Clockwork
7. Invoke the Machine
8. What's Left of Me
9. Dweller In A Dream
10. The Great Mystery

Lineup:

Tobias Sammet   Vocals (as Aaron Blackwell), Bass
Sascha Paeth   Guitars (lead, rhythm)
Michael Rodenberg   Keyboards, Piano
Russell Gilbrook   Drums

Guest musicians:

Deutsches Filmorchester Babelsberg   Orchestrations
Cloudy Yang   Vocals (as Apparition) (track 5)
Ferdy Doernberg   Organ (track 2)
Bob Catley   Vocals (as Epiphany) (track 10)
Günter Joseck   Orchestral conductor
Bruce Kulick   Guitars (lead) (tracks 3, 6, 10)
Michael Kiske   Vocals (as Antiquarian) (tracks 4, 6, 9)
Oliver Hartmann   Guitars (lead) (tracks 4, 7)
Arjen Anthony Lucassen   Guitars (lead) (track 2)
Biff Byford   Vocals (as Reason) (tracks 3, 6, 10)
Ronnie Atkins   Vocals (as Nobleman) (track 7)
Eric Martin   Vocals (as Beggar) (track 8)
Joe Lynn Turner   Vocals (as Science) (tracks 1, 2, 6, 10)

I don't have much to say about this album that I haven't already said. I don't like it much. Hell, it's right there in the name: "a rock epic." Where's the metal?!

I do like some things about this album, so let's just focus on those, since I know lots of people around here love this album. I think Spectres is a cool song, apart from the weird "phantasmagoria" lyric. Musically I dig The Watchmaker's Dream but the lyrics are bad. Where Clock Hands Freeze is another Kiske classic although I do feel it's half-baked at times (Tobi not going for the high notes so we're left with a less than impressive drum fill leading into the chorus for example). But it's the best chorus on the album to me with an enchanting theme, it's a great song.

Sleepwalking is a ballad I'm actually okay with, even if it doesn't sound like Avantasia to me. I love that huge hook with the staggered drums underneath. Savior in the Clockwork is a victim of its own size, it could be trimmed several minute in my opinion but the chorus is enormous and I love it, just not much else about it.

Overall this album sounds like Tobi had a few ideas and stretched them so thin that most of the album sounds like filler to me, with a lot of the songs sounding like he came up with great hooks and lazily slapped on the rest of the song to support the hook. To me the guest list is super underwhelming (I can't remember if I read it here or on Facebook somewhere, but someone said this album and Ghostlights was sponsored by the AARP which had me howling). No Jorn? Big mistake. And ending on a 10-minute ballad that's about as captivating as Journey to Arcadia is another mistake to me. Not a bad chorus though, now that I'm playing it again.

So with my kvetching out of the way, let's dig back into the Mystery of Time - what are your favorite moments, what do you like about it? Is the radical departure from Avantasia's early sound a good thing in your opinion? Should Jorn be missing from an Avantasia album again? I feel like this was Tobi's attempt at experimenting without Jorn but nobody can replace him. Also... WTF is this story about?!