The official Avantasia and Edguy thread v Moonflower Society - Oct 21st

[Art]

Final Sacrifice 

[MirrorMask]

Not as big on this one as I'm on the first. The Seven Angels is great, two Catley songs are very good, The Final Sacrifice is kickass, but then there are songs like Memory or Neverland which are just kind of boring I guess.

I'm more or less in this same frame of mind... The Seven Angels alone is worth the entire album and is a timeless masterpiece of the genre, with one of the best choruses ever and all in all a brilliant song, but the rest, while there's not a single bad song, it's not something I would return to often or even consider for my Avantasia compilations.

I agree that Anywhere could have been an Edguy ballad, and that Tobi wrote a lot of ballads in that vein in that time, it might be a little cheesy but I like it. And the match up with David DeFeis in The Final Sacrifice is wickedly awesome 

Also a shoutout for In Quest For, a lovely breather that showcases Bob Catley's magic and was probably the template for his future endeavors with the band... the soothing, calm wise mentor that gets all the contemplative ballad-ish songs basically.

[MirrorMask]

BTW, for those "interested" in the storylines of Avantasia, he's Tobi posting on FB about it:

...escaping into the world of Moonglow, into the world of a misfit homunculus who fails to find his place and sets off on a journey into his own imagination to escape from expectations he is bound to fail.

Is he literal when he talks about an "homunculus"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homunculus

Anyway, be prepared for another wacky undeciphrable story in true Avantasia style 

[Evermind]

BTW, for those "interested" in the storylines of Avantasia, he's Tobi posting on FB about it:

...escaping into the world of Moonglow, into the world of a misfit homunculus who fails to find his place and sets off on a journey into his own imagination to escape from expectations he is bound to fail.

Anyway, be prepared for another wacky undeciphrable story in true Avantasia style 

Came here to post this. I've been humming The Raven Child melodies for the past week at work, didn't know the words and simply used some random words that sounded alike instead. Employ the raven master to arouse the bearded guy.

[The Walrus]

BTW, for those "interested" in the storylines of Avantasia, he's Tobi posting on FB about it:

...escaping into the world of Moonglow, into the world of a misfit homunculus who fails to find his place and sets off on a journey into his own imagination to escape from expectations he is bound to fail.

Is he literal when he talks about an "homunculus"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homunculus

Anyway, be prepared for another wacky undeciphrable story in true Avantasia style 

I see plotlines that I won't decipher 

[wolfking]

I listened to part 2 the other day after listening to part 1 and enjoyed it a lot more than what I thought.  The ending could have used a bit more of a proper climax but the songs are really good.  The production isn't as good as part 1 but I think most of what's on here is excellent.

[Podaar]

Here we go. Against my better judgement, and everyone's recommendation, I'm firing this one up. Wish me luck.

[edit]

I don't have time to finish the album today, other important engagements, you understand. Chalice of Agony was just beginning when I noticed the time.

I thought Seven Angels was good, especially the second half. No Return didn't do anything for me and I was starting to loose interest, but The Looking Glass through The Final Sacrifice brought me back. As Kat said, the meaty riffing (reminds me of early Vivian Campbell during his Dio days) brought a much needed variety. I thought the singer in the previous two songs was great. Neverland and Anywhere were okay. Pick it up again tomorrow.

[/edit]


[edit 2]

Finished this up this morning. I found Chalice of Agony unmemorable, but Memory rocked  , at least through the first 2/3rds. I thought the main chorus for Into the Unknown was well done, but overall I'm not a fan of the epic anthem type song. I get that it's a proper way to end a two album run that considers itself an opera...just not my thing, I guess.

Over all, I enjoyed listening to this album more than the first. I wonder if that's more because I'm getting used to the idea of what I'm about to hear...like trying out a new scotch. The first several sips shock the senses, and not in a pleasant way, but by the third sip (or second glass) you start to appreciate it for what it is, rather than how it stacks up against your favorite.

I also think it helped that there was less of the "drumathon" style on this record, or so it seemed to me.

[/edit 2]

[Dream_Theater01]

Big fan of Avantasia, and can't get enough of the new single.  It's right there with the best songs Tobias has ever written, in my opinion.

I'm thinking strongly about going to see them live in Chicago, but I'm not from that area and I just want to make sure it's a good neighborhood.  Anyone ever been to the Patio Theater in Chicago?

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm amazed at myself not having listened to both The Metal Opera albums.

I'm halfway through part 1. Great Power Metal album. Took me long enough.

Edit: finished part one. The Tower was amazing and a nice closer for part one.

Onto Part 2. Kattle, you are right about The Seven Angels, what a fantastic epic song. Makes me feel its the actual ending to Part 1 and the beginning of Part 2 in one song.

Get Ready For The Brimstone...

[TAC]

The Seven Angels is a Top 5 Avantasia track for me, and contains two of the most memorable parts of their catalog for me: First, the early verses with DeFeis and Kiske, and then Kai Hansen's part at the end. 

[The Walrus]

I'm happy people are listening along and that some of you are hearing these for the first time! I'm just as interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on the later material since everyone is familiar with it. The next one is gonna be the Lost In Space EPs.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Not really a fan of the Metal Opera as a whole, but Memory is one I like, and I always enjoy any part David DeFeis sings. I've never cared for his main band though, which is a shame.

[MirrorMask]

Not really a fan of the Metal Opera as a whole, but Memory is one I like, and I always enjoy any part David DeFeis sings. I've never cared for his main band though, which is a shame.

Try at least the two albums called The Marriage of Heaven and Hell, they're the most complete: epic stuff, rock n' roll and soaring ballads!

[MirrorMask]

New interview with Tobi!

https://www.metal-rules.com/2018/12/11/avantasia-tobias-sammet-discusses-new-album-moonglow/?fbclid=IwAR2Rn97CURfMJRft3fim_wcaBolQX46CRaiK492aWJ3v5MuYFlhpUeKsvhw

Nothing earth shattering but he sheds some more details on the album, the writing process, why the lyrics are not in the typical "this happen and then this one says this thing" style,  and the tour. He also praises a lot Geoff Tate, he's basically fanboying all over him.

[Evermind]

You once again have a great line-up on this new album. Was there anybody you tried to get, but it didn’t happen for a reason or another?

Tobias Sammet: Yes. Of course. The same vocalist that I always try to get that I never get.

Rob Halford?

Where did that come from?

[wolfking]

It's clear the new song was written for Dickinson as we have already mentioned.  I wonder what the go is with Bruce not participating if Tobi indeed tries to get him each time.

[MirrorMask]

With all the stuff Bruce does, I think it's just a combination of not having the time, and not being bothered enough to do this kind of stuff. He can't even find time to write his own solo album (and we know he's at least trying since If Eternity Should Fail was meant to be the opener and title track of it), so even if guesting on a song would be something relatively quick, he just hasn't the time for it or doesn't want it so bad to find some time in his schedule.

[ErHaO]

Due to unholy work hours and significant health issues of a family member, I haven't had the time to really join the discussion of the first two Avantasia albums, but I am listening to the first two extensively now during a four hour travel. Will post my thoughts later on.

[wolfking]

Due to unholy work hours and significant health issues of a family member, I haven't had the time to really join the discussion of the first two Avantasia albums, but I am listening to the first two extensively now during a four hour travel. Will post my thoughts later on.

All the best mate.

[The Walrus]

1. Lost in Space
2. Lay All Your Love on Me (ABBA cover)
3. Another Angel Down
4. The Story Ain't Over
5. Return to Avantasia
6. Ride the Sky (Lucifer's Friend cover)
7. Promised Land
8. Dancing with Tears in My Eyes (Ultravox cover)
9. Scary Eyes
10. In My Defense (Freddie Mercury cover)
11. Lost in Space (Alive in Gatestudio)   
12. Lost in Space (extended version)

Lineup:

Tobias Sammet (lead vocals, bass)
Sascha Paeth (rhythm/lead guitars)
Eric Singer (drums, vocals on Ride the Sky)
Michael 'Miro' Rodenberg (keyboards/orchestration)

Guest musicians:

Jorn Lande (vocals - Another Angel Down, Promised Land)
Bob Catley (vocals - The Story Ain't Over)
Amanda Somerville (vocals - Lost In Space, The Story Ain't Over)
Henjo Richter (additional lead guitars - Another Angel Down, Promised Land, Dancing With Tears In My Eyes, Scary Eyes)
Michael Kiske (vocals - Promised Land)

Since this is a compilation and not a 'true' Avantasia release, I'm gonna go through this track by track, and I'm using the version with both separate parts combined to make this easy. This is an interesting release that marks the beginning of 'new' Avantasia, and also marks the debut of Tobias Sammet really taking over the reins on bass. The power metal lineup of yore is gone, replaced with more 'rocking' musicians... grumble grumble. The Scarecrow will be up next week!

Lost In Space: I swear this sounds different to the one on The Scarecrow, but I digress - this is a catchy inoffensive number whose biggest crime is daring to follow in the wake of the Metal Operas. I remember when this song first came out and people couldn't stand it. I'd say this song really started the split between 'old' and 'new' Avantasia. I didn't like it at first, but over the years I've warmed up to it. It's a lovely song.

Lay All Your Love On Me: One of my two favorite covers Tobi's ever done - I love this! It's a cover of ABBA's famous song, and I think they nail it. The verses have a funky groove and the chorus is huge, like ABBA went rock n' roll. Is it possible to dislike this song?

Another Angel Down: Killer. Back in the day I'd play this song on repeat for hours after school, along with Promised Land. Jorn Lande rules, he and Tobi have one of their best duets here throughout the song and (as you can guess) the hook is massive. I like that this is a balls-out power metal song but it firmly cemented the new sound of Avantasia, and it's still one of my favorites. When Avantasia writes songs like this, KLOX is happy. Silly lyrics, sure, but it rocks.

The Story Ain't Over: Four winners in a row. Brilliant tune and I think it shows Tobi's natural ability to pick the right singer for the job - I really like Bob Catley here. Don't think I've ever gotten tired of listening to this one, it's got just about everything I like here. I think its influence on later Avantasia is apparent when you hear a song like A Restless Heart & Obsidian Skies.

Return To Avantasia: Well, it's an homage to the original Metal Opera theme. Not much else to get from this. Always thought it was kind of pointless.

Ride the Sky: Unfortunately not a Helloween cover but it does rock in a very old-school way. It's not Avantasia, though, and I'm glad it's relegated to this collection of B-sides because I don't think it would've fit on The Scarecrow at all. Nice crunchy riff though.

Promised Land: YEAH! One of the best Avantasia songs in my opinion and actually the one that, alongside Another Angel Down, instantly turned me into a huge fan of Jorn. I'm sure a ton of other people got to know him this way, too. To this day I still can't get this song out of my head. Does everyone prefer this version with Michael Kiske over the Angel of Babylon version, where Jorn replaces Jorn? I do. Jorn is good, but he lacks the melodic 'oomph' Kiske naturally has in his voice for that verse.

Dancing With Tears In My Eyes: LOVE THIS COVER! This is one of my favorite songs to run to because it's the perfect tempo, too. It's my favorite song on this release. It's a cover of the same song by Ultravox, but it's got the perfect rock vibe without being too heavy. Tobi sounds heavenly on the chorus too. I would love to hear them play this live just as a lark.

I'm stopping there because honestly, I don't ever go back to Scary Eyes or In My Defense, and I don't think I have ever played the Lost In Space alternate versions more than once, but I know the alternate Lost In Space is a bit dreamier. I really enjoy this release overall, with only a few tracks I don't revisit. I still play Angel, Promised Land, Story, and Dancing... all the time. It's just a shame two of those songs were released on later albums so this release is overshadowed unless you're digging deep for those covers.

[wolfking]

I never understood why The Story Ain't Over isn't on an album, maybe Tobi has a reason for that, amazing song.  Scary Eyes is also a very worthy non album track.

[Polarbear]

Another Angel Down could be my favorite Avantasia tune! I love everything about that song.

[jingle.boy]

Another Angel Down and Promised Land are two amazing and virtually flawless power metal songs.  Jorn/Tobi absolutely slay them both on The Flying Opera.  Funny you mention the bad lyrics on AAD... PL's lyrics are just unbelievably cheesy and non-sensical... and I love it.  Of all the songs titled "Promised Land", this is easily my favorite (with Anthriel being a very close second).

I hardly ever listen to this version of PL, so hearing Kiske doing part of it feels very much out of place to me.

[cramx3]

I wasn't a fan at this time, but what was the point of this release?  I've heard all the songs (the versions from this too) and really enjoy them all, the covers are really cool and show off a different side of Avantasia and the original songs are all awesome but mostly on an album which I guess is what I don't understand looking back on it.  Either way, I agree AAD and PL are some of Avantasia's best songs.

[The Walrus]

I wasn't a fan at this time, but what was the point of this release?  I've heard all the songs (the versions from this too) and really enjoy them all, the covers are really cool and show off a different side of Avantasia and the original songs are all awesome but mostly on an album which I guess is what I don't understand looking back on it.  Either way, I agree AAD and PL are some of Avantasia's best songs.

It was mostly just to hold fans over till the official comeback of Avantasia. Tobi said there wouldn't be more Avantasia, and years later he announced the return. So he released two mini EPs. Lost in Space part 1 followed by part 2, and both were later released as a full package. It was nice to hear AAD and PL because those songs really got everyone psyched for the next album.

[Ben_Jamin]

The only song I heard from this is Ride The Sky. Then I listened to the original and loved that French Horn and version even more.

Might give the others a listen if its on Spotify.

[cramx3]

I wasn't a fan at this time, but what was the point of this release?  I've heard all the songs (the versions from this too) and really enjoy them all, the covers are really cool and show off a different side of Avantasia and the original songs are all awesome but mostly on an album which I guess is what I don't understand looking back on it.  Either way, I agree AAD and PL are some of Avantasia's best songs.

It was mostly just to hold fans over till the official comeback of Avantasia. Tobi said there wouldn't be more Avantasia, and years later he announced the return. So he released two mini EPs. Lost in Space part 1 followed by part 2, and both were later released as a full package. It was nice to hear AAD and PL because those songs really got everyone psyched for the next album.

Ah thanks. That makes some sense then.

[TAC]

6. Ride the Sky (Lucifer's Friend cover)

Just want to say that the first Lucifer's Friend album, which Ride The Sky is on, is amazing. They are the German version of Deep Purple, without the charm of Blackmore.

[MirrorMask]

I still think Helloween's cover of the ABBA song is better however 

[The Walrus]

Scarecrow post coming tonight

[The Walrus]

1. Twisted Mind
2. The Scarecrow
3. Shelter From The Rain
4. Carry Me Over
5. What Kind Of Love
6. Another Angel Down
7. The Toy Master
8. Devil In The Belfry
9. Cry Just A Little
10. I Don't Believe In Your Love
11. Lost In Space

Lineup:
Tobias Sammet (vocals, bass)
Sascha Paeth (guitars)
Eric Singer (drums)
Miro (keyboards/orchestrations)

Guest musicians (copied from Metal Archives):

Roy Khan   Vocals (track 1)
Jørn Lande   Vocals (tracks 2, 6, 8)
Michael Kiske   Vocals (tracks 2, 3, 5)
Amanda Somerville   Vocals (tracks 5, 11)
Alice Cooper   Vocals (track 7)
Bob Catley   Vocals (tracks 3, 9)
Oliver Hartmann   Vocals (track 10)
Tiffany Kirkland   Vocals (backing)
Matthias Kontny   Vocals (backing)
Ina Morgan   Vocals (backing)
Thomas Rettke   Vocals (backing)
Cinzia Hunecke Rizzo   Vocals (backing)
Michael Voy   Vocals (backing)
Cloudy Yang   Vocals (backing)
Henjo Richter   Guitars (lead) (tracks 2, 3, 6, 7, 8)
Kai Hansen   Guitars (lead) (track 3)
Rudolf Schenker   Guitars (lead) (track 10)

Short but highly recommended video with Tobias Sammet talking about Avantasia in 2007: https://youtu.be/-y6Vn29muGg

2007 kicked off strong with this album. This was the first full Avantasia album release I had the chance to look forward to (excluding the Lost In Space EPs), and as a teen really at the height of his power metal craze, this was an odd album to listen to, and I've been all over the map on how I feel about this over the years.

I love that Roy Khan makes an incredibly rare guest appearance here, although I don't like Twisted Mind. I wish the title track was the opener instead, because it is a spectacular power metal epic, one of the best I've ever heard. Over the years I've skipped the middle section quite a lot, but only because the last few minutes are so good. Jorn makes everything better. For a couple of my friends, this was the first time they had ever heard him sing, and they've loved him since. Another Angel Down and Devil In The Belfry kick serious butt too, I love those songs. Silly lyrics, but sweet vocals and massive hooks - I'm all over that.

Shelter From The Rain is another favorite of mine and I think it really set the template for the future 'Kiske songs' - Wastelands, Where Clock Hands Freeze, Ghostlights... not that that's a bad thing. Kiske is silky smooth and his vibrato is perfect.

I know I harped on this earlier but I just have to get it out of the way, I greatly prefer Henjo Richter to Sascha Paeth, both for the tone of their guitars and their playing style. Sascha can shred, no doubt, but I don't like the way he riffs sometimes and that annoys me in future songs as well (like Scales of Justice).

The Toy Master - I didn't know what to expect when I heard Alice Cooper would guest on this, and I'm still pretty baffled. I know Tobi loves him and it's great to see him guest here. It's just a weird song, and pretty creepy. "I'm the master of toys and all you girls and boys are welcome to my wonderland" - I've never understood what this song is supposed to mean in the context of the story of The Scarecrow.

Speaking of which - the video above has Tobi (in 2007) saying that The Scarecrow has a very loose concept but is not written in a way to really tell a story. That makes sense to me, but it also means the story is absolutely incomprehensible. I think when he tried expanding upon it with the next two albums, he tried to retcon the story of The Scarecrow, saying it's actually the start of some kind of story that makes about as much sense as a Dragonforce concept album. Just something I think is interesting.

Carry Me Over, What Kind of Love, Cry Just A Little... nope. Don't like 'em. I think I Don't Believe In Your Love rocks and Lost In Space is good, though. This is such a weird album. I'm so happy that it happened, but it's a mixed bag for me. I hated it when it first came out, then I forgot about it for a long time, and now although I don't love it, I appreciate it for bringing Avantasia back to life, bigger than ever, and for bringing Jorn into the fold.

What do you all think about this album, now that we're beyond the traditional power metal? Note that Cloudy Yang is on backing vocals, which I never knew until tonight. (Cloudy sang on Angel of Babylon's Symphony of Life, and TMOT's Sleepwalking)

[TAC]

The title track is a Top 10 Avantasia track for me. Great. I am not a Jorn fan, and can really only take him in small doses, but this might be my favorite "Jorn" song.

You're right about the "Kiske template". I mean, no one is better at that kind of song,  but for a while, it felt that that was all Tobi wrote for Kiske.


As far as The Toy Master....no one on DTF is a bigger Alice Cooper fan than me. Words cannot tell how much I love Alice Cooper. The Toy Master sounds like it could've come off his Hey Stoopid album. It's not a great tune by any stretch, but Alice brings exactly what he was supposed to bring. Not a fan of the chorus. I really wish Tobi brought him back for Death Is Just A Feeling, instead of Jon Oliva puking all over himself trying to sound like Alice Cooper.

[The Walrus]

That's the best description of Death Is Just A Feeling I've ever seen 

[wolfking]

Oliva rules on that song.

[Polarbear]

Another great post KLox!

I know that there are some filler tracks to be found here, but usually whenever I want to listen some Avantasia, this is the album i spin.

Twisted Mind, The Scarecrow, AAD, Shelter and Lost in Space are all some of my favorite Avantasia songs!