The official Avantasia and Edguy thread v Moonflower Society - Oct 21st

[Grappler]

The Scarecrow was my introduction to Avantasia, so I only recently this year went back to check out the Metal Opera.  I'm surprised that I never got into this when it came out, given how big of a Gamma Ray and power metal fan I was back then.

Definitely the all-star lineup for power metal, both instrumentally and vocally.  It's only missing Hansi and Timo Kotipelto from that era.

[Podaar]

Discographies are probably my favorite part of the GMD thread, but this one might not be for me. I'm halfway through The Metal Opera, pt. I and I'm just not... well, I'll stick with it.

I'll listen to the next installment and go from there.

[bl5150]

Discographies are probably my favorite part of the GMD thread, but this one might not be for me. I'm halfway through The Metal Opera, pt. I and I'm just not... well, I'll stick with it.

I'll listen to the next installment and go from there.

I'm one of the few that would (on the whole) prefer Edguy and yeah..............The Metal Opera Pt 1 is just okay IMHO.    I sampled it many years ago and dropped it about half way through but years later Evermind sent me Sign Of The Cross (track 12) in a  roulette and I really liked it.  By far the most memorable chorus on it for me.

So perhaps hang in there for that track and see if you like it

[Podaar]

I'm hanging in there mang, I really am. In fairness I'm finding some enjoyment from it in a few places...but, those choruses: they sound so much like Manowar covers look. That's not flattery.

Power metal just may not be for me. 

[Evermind]

I'm hanging in there mang, I really am. In fairness I'm finding some enjoyment from it in a few places...but, those choruses: they sound so much like Manowar covers look. That's not flattery.

Power metal just may not be for me. 

I'd say skip The Metal Opera Pt. 2 (it's really more of the same thing that Part 1 offers) and then join back on The Scarecrow. It changed the sound of this band quite a bit.

[bl5150]

I'm hanging in there mang, I really am. In fairness I'm finding some enjoyment from it in a few places...but, those choruses: they sound so much like Manowar covers look. That's not flattery.

Power metal just may not be for me. 

The last track is VERY Manowar 

I actually think my favourite 3 tracks on it are the last 3 which is very unsual.

[Podaar]

*Sigh*

Finished. Yeah, no.

Power metal drumbing not a spelling error is too big of a hurdle for me to clear. Audio equivalent of macho poofs prancing in budgie smugglers just isn't my bag.

I better stay out.

[Evermind]

I'd still say come back for The Scarecrow and maybe try it out. But that could be just my Avantasia fanboy side speaking.

[bl5150]

*Sigh*

Finished. Yeah, no.

Power metal drumbing not a spelling error is too big of a hurdle for me to clear. Audio equivalent of macho poofs prancing in budgie smugglers just isn't my bag.

I better stay out.

I have always been a bit the same - I like power metal bands when they slow it down.  As an example, I have always been a big fan of Stratovarius but (early days at least) largely just the 2-4 tracks per album where they ditch the drumathon style.

[cramx3]

I'd still say come back for The Scarecrow and maybe try it out. But that could be just my Avantasia fanboy side speaking.

I agree, there's songs I really enjoy on the Metal Opera albums but I'd rank these albums low compared to what came after. If The Scarecrow isn't your cup of tea either then I'd say it's safe you won't like them.   I'm putting on Pt1 now, haven't listened to the whole thing in awhile.  I find the production really doesn't help the album. 

[Grappler]

I'd still say come back for The Scarecrow and maybe try it out. But that could be just my Avantasia fanboy side speaking.

I agree, there's songs I really enjoy on the Metal Opera albums but I'd rank these albums low compared to what came after. If The Scarecrow isn't your cup of tea either then I'd say it's safe you won't like them.   I'm putting on Pt1 now, haven't listened to the whole thing in awhile.  I find the production really doesn't help the album.

Tobi has alluded to re-issues of the Metal Opera albums that could be coming down the pipeline in the future.  Maybe he'll take the time to remix or remaster them, as opposed to just re-releasing them.

[Kwyjibo]

The Metal Opera Pt. 1 is a really strong record. But if you're not into power metal it's probably hard to digest.

[The Walrus]

*Sigh*

Finished. Yeah, no.

Power metal drumbing not a spelling error is too big of a hurdle for me to clear. Audio equivalent of macho poofs prancing in budgie smugglers just isn't my bag.

I better stay out.

I have always been a bit the same - I like power metal bands when they slow it down.  As an example, I have always been a big fan of Stratovarius but (early days at least) largely just the 2-4 tracks per album where they ditch the drumathon style.

This baffles me because the double bass Jorg Michael drumming is a massive part of why I like that speedy Strato style power metal, and Strato in general! 

[Podaar]

*Sigh*

Finished. Yeah, no.

Power metal drumbing not a spelling error is too big of a hurdle for me to clear. Audio equivalent of macho poofs prancing in budgie smugglers just isn't my bag.

I better stay out.

I have always been a bit the same - I like power metal bands when they slow it down.  As an example, I have always been a big fan of Stratovarius but (early days at least) largely just the 2-4 tracks per album where they ditch the drumathon style.

This baffles me because the double bass Jorg Michael drumming is a massive part of why I like that speedy Strato style power metal, and Strato in general! 

As jingle would say, tastes!

For me it's a caffeine fueled bullet train full of metronomes with osmium weights crammed to the bottom. Impressive on first listen but more monotonous than reggae on repeat.

[cramx3]

Listened again and enjoyed it.  I do think it suffers not just from the production but maybe the often used power metal drumming, as in the tempos are mostly fairly fast and not as much variety in the music as they would show in the future.  I do like a lot of the songs though, some really good catchy power metal here.  The song Avantasia is a blast, works so much better live though.  I think it's a good album for sure, just hard to compete with some of the greatness that came later.

[Logain Ablar]

Podaar, you’re not alone. I struggle with the full on power metal style of early Avantasia, much the same as I’ve tried listening to Rhapsody, Stratovarious and none of it has clicked with me. I think pure power metal isn’t for me.

As suggested above, start with The Scarecrow and see how you get on. The more modern style from that album on is what got me into them properly.

[bosk1]

Listening now. 






























Oh, and also: 

[bosk1]

Okay, this question arises:  Would I have agreed to listen to this if I had known that after releasing TMOT, Tobi would travel back in time, plagiarize Where Clock Hands Freeze, and rename it Reach Out for the Light?  Hmm... 

EDIT:  Serpents in Paradise is pretty cool.

EDIT:  I really like Farewell.

EDIT:  The Glory of Rome is so...    That isn't necessarily a bad thing though.  I actually like it.  But if I was even slightly lactose intolerant, that much cheese could be deadly.

EDIT:  Okay, I withdraw my previous cheese comments and reserve them for "Avantasia."

EDIT:  Sign of the Cross is pretty cool.  The Tower...  doesn't do it justice.  It is equal parts and

EDIT:  Wait, why are there two songs called "Avantasia?" 

[The Walrus]

Are there two versions on the copy you're playing? Maybe one is the radio version. It's been a long time since I've checked my old hard drive which has all the early stuff including bonus tracks and the first single so I'm not quite sure. Glad you listened to it, though! I don't hear the similarities between Reach and Clock Hands personally but they're both rip roaring power metal anthems for sure.

[cramx3]

Farewell is another song that works really well live

and I also really enjoy Serpents and Glory, and get the cheese part those are two really solid power metal songs full of your typical power metal cheese but they are solid tunes.

[bosk1]

Are there two versions on the copy you're playing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MgMiQd4Was



Anyway, finished it.  Not bad.  Power metal is kind of hit and miss for me.  To adopt an expression I've heard a few times from some of the Lost in Vegas reaction videos:  I can definitely appreciate what I am hearing here, and there are definitely things I like, but I can't say it will make my play list.  So, I guess, overall, it is a "miss."  But it is a close miss, and could end up being more of a hit after a few more listens.  It has all the typical power metal tropes that are simultaneously good, but also make a lot of the genre a turnoff.  But that said, they do power metal better than most, even on this album.  Glad I listened.  I will revisit it again.

[The Walrus]

Oh, yeah. That is the Japanese version, which has the single version at the end, and The Final Sacrifice is from TMO Part II.

As far as the power metal goes... this is definitely one of the more praised power metal albums for a reason. Honestly if you'd heard me discuss power metal in person you'd wonder if I was a power metal fan at all, because I think the vast majority of it is... pretty bad. I think it's a deceptively difficult style of metal to pull off well even if it might be relatively easier to compose in ways.

And I think that goes a long way in explaining our different takes on Mystery of Time, actually, because if it was more like this album I'd love it - but Mystery steers in the different direction quite a bit. However, and I mean this 100%, you may enjoy early Edguy more than The Metal Opera, if TMO is just too cheesy or uninteresting at times. Early Edguy, around the time of this album, is similar to this but their albums aren't conceptual in nature so every song stands on its own but has a very similar epic vibe (The Pharaoh - holy cow, what a song that is).

[MirrorMask]

The Metal Opera Pt. 1 is a really strong record. But if you're not into power metal it's probably hard to digest.

I daresay that, since it's such a marvellous and perfect record, it's the definitive benchmark for power metal stuff - if you don't like it, power metal simply isn't your thing, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I just don't digest black metal, so I'm sure that if I were to listen of the universally acclaimed black metal albums, I still wouldn't like it.

[wolfking]

EDIT:  Wait, why are there two songs called "Avantasia?" 

There's not, there is only one song called Avantasia, you just have the album version and a single edit.

[jingle.boy]

I'll just steal previous comments which pretty much sum it up for me:

Listened again and enjoyed it.  I do think it suffers not just from the production but maybe the often used power metal drumming, as in the tempos are mostly fairly fast and not as much variety in the music as they would show in the future.  I do like a lot of the songs though, some really good catchy power metal here.  The song Avantasia is a blast, works so much better live though.  I think it's a good album for sure, just hard to compete with some of the greatness that came later.

Anyway, finished it.  Not bad.  Power metal is kind of hit and miss for me.  To adopt an expression I've heard a few times from some of the Lost in Vegas reaction videos:  I can definitely appreciate what I am hearing here, and there are definitely things I like, but I can't say it will make my play list.  So, I guess, overall, it is a "miss."  But it is a close miss, and could end up being more of a hit after a few more listens.  It has all the typical power metal tropes that are simultaneously good, but also make a lot of the genre a turnoff.  But that said, they do power metal better than most, even on this album.  Glad I listened.  I will revisit it again.

I will say that I enjoyed this listen more than when I first discovered it.  I get the sense Tobi wanted this to be his 'Keeper Of The Seven Keys'.  Seeing as how I just never clicked with Helloween or Gamma Ray, it's not surprising that TMO is just a shade outside of what I'm usually drawn to in (straight up) Power Metal.

Podaar, you’re not alone. I struggle with the full on power metal style of early Avantasia, much the same as I’ve tried listening to Rhapsody, Stratovarious and none of it has clicked with me. I think pure power metal isn’t for me.

As suggested above, start with The Scarecrow and see how you get on. The more modern style from that album on is what got me into them properly.

Though I do actually enjoy some Rhapsody and Strat, I will echo this final statement.  Gregg... stick around for The Scarecrow, where Tobi brings in a lot more of a Prog/power style to his writing.  If that doesn't work for you, that's when you should pull the ripcord.

[The Walrus]

At the very least, the title track should give everyone goosebumps, right?

I have the next two days off work so I'm starting work on The Metal Opera Pt. II right now. I'll probably post it tomorrow evening or Wednesday, as I'm trying to space them out enough to have about a week between the Ghostlights writeup and Moonglow's release.

[Lowdz]

I really love the first album but it was my first Avantasia album. I have a hard time with most power metal as the major key, church hymn sound of it puts me off, with the relentless (in a bad way) boring drums.

This justdid It right.

The story is complete toss though. Best not to pay any attention to it.

[wolfking]

I really love the first album but it was my first Avantasia album. I have a hard time with most power metal as the major key, church hymn sound of it puts me off, with the relentless (in a bad way) boring drums.

This justdid It right.

The story is complete toss though. Best not to pay any attention to it.

Was my first album also.  Loving Edguy before the inception of Avantasia, I was eagerly awaiting this, love it.

[The Walrus]

I didn't buy a ticket for the USA tour because I thought my parents might snag it for me for Christmas... I was right!! I'll be up front and center in Chicago and I can't f'ing wait!! 

[cramx3]

  definitely my most anticipated concert of 2019 so far and I got my ticket in the mail the other day.  When I get back into work on the 2nd I'm going to have to put in a half day that Friday in May to make the drive up to MA

[Evermind]

What's the deal with the promoter for American shows though? I saw people talking about how he's an asshole on Facebook.

[The Walrus]

What's the deal with the promoter for American shows though? I saw people talking about how he's an asshole on Facebook.

If that's the guy from EnterTheVault then I've heard rumblings over the last few months about how he's a terrible person who treats people horribly, but despite asking several accusers for any shred of evidence on this it's mostly just been heresay, so I can't really care too much. Still gonna buy tickets from there.

[The Walrus]

Avantasia - The Metal Opera, Pt. II

1. The Seven Angels
2. No Return
3. The Looking Glass
4. In Quest For
5. The Final Sacrifice
6. Neverland
7. Anywhere
8. Chalice of Agony
9. Memory
10. Into the Unknown

Lineup:
Tobias Sammet [as Novice Gabriel Laymann] (vocals, keyboards, orchestrations, bass on track 10)
Henjo Richter (guitars)
Markus Grosskopf (bass)
Alex Holzwarth (drums)

Guest musicians:

Jens Ludwig   Guitars (lead) (tracks 5, 9)
Norman Meiritz   Guitars (rhythm) (track 10)
Timo Tolkki   Guitars (lead) (tracks 1, 10)
Eric Singer   Drums (track 10)
Frank Tischer   Piano (tracks 1, 4, 7)
Michael Kiske   Vocals (lead) (tracks 1, 2) (as Druid Lugaid Vandroiy)
David DeFeis   Vocals (lead) (tracks 1, 5) (as Friar Jakob, the Dominican Monk)
Ralf Zdiarstek   Vocals (lead) (track 9) (as Bailiff Falk von Kronberg)
Sharon den Adel   Vocals (female) (track 10) (as Anna Held)
Rob Rock   Vocals (lead) (tracks 1, 6) (as Bishop Johann Adam von Bicken)
Oliver Hartmann   Vocals (lead) (track 1) (as Pope Clemens VIII)
Andre Matos   Vocals (lead) (tracks 1, 2, 8) (as Elderane, the Elf)
Kai Hansen   Vocals (lead) (tracks 1, 8) (as Regrin, the Dwarf)
Bob Catley   Vocals (lead) (tracks 3, 4) (as Tree of Knowledge)

What we have here is, in my opinion, one of the greatest power metal albums of all time. The only track here that I don't think highly of is Into the Unknown, and it's at the very end anyway.

This is the second part of The Metal Opera, but the plot probably matters even less. To me this is still a good thing, because each song kind of sounds like a standalone track with none of them relying on others to be good or coherent. That probably sounds contradictory, but I don't know how better to describe it. Songs like 'No Return' are just kickass melodic power metal with infectious vocals and awesome guitars.

Fans of power metal drumathons will not be much happier on this album. Half the album is full of that drumming; the rest is filled with ballads, mid-tempo rockers, and the big epic...

The Seven Angels deserves its own section. In my opinion, one of the best songs ever written. It's hard for me to imagine being a newer Avantasia fan and possibly not knowing this song. It's power metal perfection. It starts soft with synths, choirs, drums, and bass for about a minute before launching into the Avantasia-style choirs and amplified rhythm section. The lineup of guest vocalists ping-pong back and forth for the next couple minutes and we get the huge refrain of the song. Then the power metal section comes in. Timo Tolkki himself finally adds his guitar playing to this album by playing leads on this song (and Into the Unknown). After the "woe to you, longing for the wisdom" section, he plays what is one of my all-time favorite Tolkki solos. Short and sweet, it's catchy and full of emotion, it was Tolkki at his best. The last few minutes contain a happy, theatrical piano-driven part followed by a truly epic finale. The layers of vocals and lyrics always make me think of Edguy's song Land of the Miracle which does something similar. I could gush about this song forever, it really is one of power metal's finest epics and Tobi really put his mark on the genre with this one.

The shreddy power metal is otherwise contained to songs like No Return, Neverland, Chalice of Agony, and Memory. I love all of those tunes, particularly the choruses which are all catchy and epic. The sound of the choirs in early Avantasia sounds very warm to me, and I think they're used very effectively to make the songs sound larger than life. Shoutout to The Final Sacrifice, too, for actually lending a meaty riff and metal AF vocals to this album. It's no less corny than the rest of the album, but you're nuts if this one doesn't get your head moving.

The two ballads here - In Quest For, and Anywhere - are better than the ballads on Part I, to me. In Quest For is innocent and sweet and has a great performance from Bob Catley. Anywhere is more sentimental, but I dig that loud, bright piano and Tobi's singing. Lots of Tobi's ballads were in this style back in the day, with warm strings, piano, and almost no percussion. It's interesting to watch how his style has evolved so much over all this time.

Into the Unknown is the one disappointing track here, for my money - it's just not all that interesting. I know people who dig it, but for me, I always tend to end the album when this one starts. It's not Sharon den Adel's fault, it's just the song is... kinda boring.

The Metal Opera Pt. II is like Part I on steroids. There's simply more of everything to be found here - except interlude tracks. If you're not big on power metal, this album won't do much for you. But for even a modest power metal fan, there's a whole lot to chew on here. It's one of the genre's classics by this point and I would argue anybody new to the genre should listen to this album. What do you think?

[Evermind]

Not as big on this one as I'm on the first. The Seven Angels is great, two Catley songs are very good, The Final Sacrifice is kickass, but then there are songs like Memory or Neverland which are just kind of boring I guess.

I don't quite remember which song it was, but No Return sounds remarkably similar to one of Edguy songs, at least as far as I recall. Golden Dawn, maybe?

[jingle.boy]

Ima gonna have to go back and re-listen with these thoughts in mind.  As I mentioned before, I was never that much in to either TMO albums.  But I always enjoy a re-listen with someone else's perspectives in mind.