The official Avantasia and Edguy thread v Moonflower Society - Oct 21st

[gazinwales]

I don't think Toby is cocky, or anything of the sort.
I've met him in person and did a phone interview with him for Ghostlights, he comes across as very friendly and is very passionate about Avantasia.
He is very enthusiastic about every new Avantasia album and so he should be.

[jingle.boy]

The cover looks great. It's a Release Day PREORDER purchase.

Fix'd

[TAC]

Oh absolutely. I meant it's a Release Day DELIVERY.

[The Walrus]

The artwork is awesome. The tracklist sounds awesome. The release date is awesome, because it comes out the day after my birthday.

This album is going to be awesome.

[The Walrus]

In my LIMITED experience with Avantasia/Tobi, he seems to ALWAYS plug his latest work as the best yet and  nothing less than a gift to all humanity.    And that's fine.  I find him to be a bit cocky in that regard, but not in a way that is offputting--more just being confident in his work and being a good salesman.  And the thing I have found in listening to his work is that, even if it doesn't fit my tastes and I don't like it, it is almost all undeniably well-crafted.  Based on his track record, I am confident this will be no exception.

He's not really cocky at all. He just has a good sense of humor, especially with regards to his passionate fanbase who constantly hail everything he touches as gold.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I think Tobi's just someone who gets really excited about whatever he's doing at the moment. He's a very earnest guy.

[TAC]

It might be a German thing. I thought Edguy was to un-serious, and even back in the day, the whole Helloween sense of humor was kind of a distraction to the great music.

[The Walrus]

At first I thought it was just an effort to break away from the association with early Edguy and Avantasia power metal stuff given the direction of the music but I think it's just a consequence of him not wanting to do that particular type of music for a long time and just changing as any person normally does. He strikes me as the kind of singer who was almost born a couple decades too late; Tobi would've blown the fuck up in the 80s. I saw a video of Edguy doing a live cover of Bon Jovi with this hilariously small toy piano and I really think Tobi would've been an amazing 80s star in a band like Skid Row or something

[TAC]

I always thought Tobi tried to be Michael Kiske and Jon Bon Jovi all at once, but he really pales vocally to both. But what he is is a great writer, producer, arranger, and musical visionary, which to me, is even more impressive than his vocal talents.

[The Walrus]

I was excited when he was announced for the last Ayreon album but he turned out to be the weak link there. His voice over the last several years has become way too nasally and shouty. But I think back in the day on albums like Savage Poetry, Mandrake, and Theater of Salvation, and, hell, even the first two Avantasia albums, his voice was up there with the best. His high notes were unbelievable. I think it's a combination of poor technique and aging even though he's still quite young, he probably overworked his voice being as prolific as he is, too. I personally prefer him to Kiske generally but Kiske does technically still sound better (imo).

Still, I love Tobi and I'll buy whatever he releases because I love his work so much, even when he puts out something I strongly dislike like some of the more recent Avantasia. His songwriting talents are indeed impeccable. Those Germans, man. Something about being a prolific musician just runs in their blood 

[TAC]

K-Lox, I kind of disagree. Frankly, I was never a huge Tobi fan, vocally. It really held me back on Edguy and consequently, I didn't get into Avantasia until late in the game. But I feel like he's really improved. I mean he goes almost toe to toe with Kiske on the Ghostlights title track.

[The Walrus]

K-Lox, I kind of disagree. Frankly, I was never a huge Tobi fan, vocally. It really held me back on Edguy and consequently, I didn't get into Avantasia until late in the game. But I feel like he's really improved. I mean he goes almost toe to toe with Kiske on the Ghostlights title track.

He kind of does, in a way. It's definitely one of my favorite Avantasia songs, because Tobi just knows how to write a goddamn amazing power metal anthem when Kiske's involved. But TAC, honest question, not being a dick, are you familiar with early Edguy? I'm much more a fan of his early Kiske-ish voice, so that's why I think he was much better back then. Some of the songs are amazing for fans of power metal singing like that - Sacred Hell, Babylon, Golden Dawn, etc. His tone, his vibrato, even his cadences and harmonies are so much different because he was so into writing Kiske-ween type of metal. He's still putting out amazing stuff but the way his voice has changed hasn't always sat right with me, but part of that is also because I have such a big problem with the way he writes lyrics and vocal parts nowadays.

Again I have no idea what you know about Edguy but some of their early stuff really is among the greatest power metal ever made and there's no shortage of people who would say some of the best power metal vox ever are on those albums.

[TAC]

K-Lox, all good. You're not being a dick. I appreciate the discussion.

I actually have all of the Edguy albums through Rocket Ride. Then I kind of lost interest.

I really liked Kingdom Of Madness and The Savage Poetry.

Honestly, to have an appropriate discussion, I would have to go back and relisten.

From memory, and it's been a couple of years since I dug into them, I remember Kingdom being fairly raw, but full of potential. Such a young and talented band.


Oh, and Babylon is easily my favorite Edguy song, but my memory tells me the rest of that album wasn't very good. Again, I'd have to revisit.

[The Walrus]

That's cool - I own everything except Kingdom of Madness and Vain Glory Opera because I don't like them much. I strongly dislike Kingdom, so I'd be interested in reading why you enjoy that album.

I could be irrational because I grew up listening to Edguy and watching them and Avantasia evolve so much. Not everything on the old stuff is a classic, Theater of Salvation is half and half for me, but it is definitely drenched in old school power metal cheese.

I was just listening to The Pharaoh and Jerusalem and I miss that ball-crunchingly high voice. I don't expect him to do that anymore whatsoever, I just miss it.

[TAC]

Listening to my Blind Guardian journey, so I have my iPod in hand, so I just pulled up Kingdom...




Yes, this has "debut" written all over it. It is raw, and it's more metal and less cheese. So there's three reasons why it appeals to me.

Similarly, I love Kill 'Em All. In both cases, these are the songs that they wrote as kids. It is a window into the essence of a band, even if they haven't quite fulfilled the potential that they eventually would. On my Blind Guardian journey, I feel the same way about Battalions Of Fear. There's a certain amount of unvarnished "truth" about these bands on their debut. It's honesty.

[The Walrus]

I personally like The Savage Poetry as my #1 - and it was the first album Edguy ever wrote! The 2000 version, not necessarily all of the debut although most of it remained the same.

[TAC]

Right. I have the redone The Savage Poetry. Not sure which came first TBH, but I remember liking that a lot too. I'd have to relisten to truly discuss.

[MirrorMask]

Speaking of Tobi's voice, I think that in the early power metal albums of Edguy he had less tecnique and he came across in places as... not really struggling, but having a weird accent in order to be able to belt out more easily the notes. Then he acquired more power from, say, Mandrake onwards. On Vain Glory Opera he gave me vibes of trying to riff off Bruce Dickinson.

[jingle.boy]

I seem to recall that Tobi has often admitted that he's not a great vocalist... part of the reason he started using guest vocalists for Avantasia, and it just seemed to fit the bill.  I've never had any issue with his vocals, but he certainly wouldn't crack my top20 favorite (current) vocalists... and maybe not even my top50 all-time.

[The Walrus]

On the gold edition of the Metal Operas Tobi directly credits Sascha Paeth for helping him adjust his vibrato and sing better, so there's that.

[cramx3]

I've always thought Tobi's vocals were the weak point for Avantasia, but he's not terrible.  Works so much better with supporting vocals than by himself which is a big reason for never getting into Ed Guy.

[wolfking]

I didn't know people disliked Tobi's voice.  I did know there was a lot of talk about his vibrato and how wide and all over the place it is but I've always loved him as a vocalist.  Been a fan since Hellfire Club and IMO Tobi really came into his own on Mandrake, that might be my fav.  Golden Dawn is a ball buster.

I think the problem is as Kattoelox said, he's so prolific, I think that's what has taken the biggest toll on his voice over the years, but he has a distinctive tone and sound and I love him.  I remember seeing Edguy in a small club in 2004 with like 200 people.  Sitting 5 metres away having a few burbouns watching them tear up was amazing.  Tobi fucking tore it up that night, his vocals were perfect and very strong.

[cramx3]

Yea, I definitely enjoyed and started respecting his vocals much more after seeing him live.  He's a great performer.

[Polarbear]

I think Tobi's voice is definitely serviceable, and he has had some real shining moment's throughout he's career!

In Avantasia, he's voice work brilliantly in context, opposite some other singers who are better than him. Like Lande, Kiske or Atkins.

He most definitely doesn't suck!

[TAC]

https://bravewords.com/news/bravewords-exclusive-avantasia-new-album-the-most-diverse-avantasia-record-since-the-scarecrow

BraveWords scribe Carl Begai offers some insight on Moonglow:
"Simply put, Moonglow is the most diverse Avantasia record since The Scarecrow (released in 2008). The ebb and flow of the album is captivating in that you have no idea where the songs are going to go. In fact, the only predictable moment is 'Requiem For A Dream', which is Tobi's expected high- speed Helloween fanboy entry trading vocals with Michael Kiske (who does what he does best at a level nobody can touch). Other than that... the way Sammet and Paeth shaped the songs using Hansi Kürsch (Blind Guardian), Candice Night (Blackmore's Night), Mille Petrozza (Kreator) and Geoff Tate (ex-Queensryche) is pure ear candy and not what you're expecting of the singers. For example.... no, Ms. Night does not go Celtic or sappy ballad on Moonglow. And Tate... he should put Operation: Mindcrime on ice and join Avantasia full time, as the material lets his voice shine. He hasn't sounded this good in 20 years. No small wonder he appears on three tracks on Moonglow.

Lead track 'Ghost In The Moon' is Avantasia's gradiose Meatloaf-esque moment, clocking in around 10 minutes, in contrast to the crushing metal of 'Book Of Shallows' featuring Sammet, Ronnie Atkins (Pretty Maids), Kürsch, Petrozza and Jorn Lande. 'The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn' is an equally rousing metal assault, while 'Invincible' and 'Alchemy' feature two sides of Tate back-to-back. Bets are on 'The Raven Child' becoming THE fan favourite on the record, which is Avantasia rock opera brilliance coupled with a Savatage-esque stomp that goes for miles. It doesn't feel like 11 minutes. As for the cover of 'Maniac'... yeah, well, to each his own."

[Evermind]

I'm pretty sure the reviews are going to praise this album as much as they can. They did the same with Ghostlights. I'll reserve my judgement for when the actual album drops.

[MirrorMask]

What? the last track is a cover? quite weird. I'm stoked for the rest of the song and the unpredictable use of the singers

[TAC]

What? the last track is a cover? quite weird. I'm stoked for the rest of the song and the unpredictable use of the singers

Didn't another band cover Maniac a few years ago? I know I have the CD. I remember it fucking sucking big time!

[MirrorMask]

Firewind most likely. Maybe it will fit in the context of the album, but... very weird choice so far!

[TAC]

Yeah, that could be it. Firewind. What unnecessary suckage.

[wolfking]

I thought that Firewind cover was pretty cool.

[TAC]

I thought it was one of the lamest things I've ever heard. 

[wolfking]

I thought it was one of the lamest things I've ever heard. 

It probably is, but I still thought it was cool. 

[jingle.boy]

I thought it was one of the lamest things I've ever heard. 

Lamer than Winger??

[ErHaO]

I never really thought Tobi was a good singer, but his voice does work extremely well in certain songs. Furthermore, judging from official releases, his live vocals aren't that good. But he more than makes up with that with his show and stage presence.

Cool artwork indeed! My favourite cover artwork of Avantasia is Mystery of Time. But I like this one a lot too.

Too bad Avantasia seems to have no love for the Netherlands (not enough fans here?), would love to catch them on tour but I don't think I will travel to see them.

I saw Tobi posting on FB there will be no Netherlands shows because one of the German shows (or was it Belgium?) is very close to Netherlands and his promoters don't think there's a profit to play Netherlands because of that. He recommended you guys to travel to that German show (I don't remember which one and I suck at geography).

The artwork is fantastic! I'm going for the artbook/boxset if they will have it on pre-orders.

Ah, thanks, will check that out. My mind usually ignores Germany, but the border is never really hat far no matter where you are in the Netherlands. Last tour also didn't have a Dutch show, but I assume it was a similar situation.