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Offline bosk1

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4585 on: May 05, 2021, 02:53:06 PM »
Marc, that all sound perfectly logical.  And, again, based on what info we have, I think those are pretty sound conclusions to draw.  Again, however, I hate to go down that road, because we have such a limited picture to go off of.  For all we know, if the band were to read that post, they might genuinely laugh at it and say, "No, that's not even remotely close.  I guess the way the facts came out, it may have inadvertently painted a picture that could lead someone to believe that.  But that's actually a really misleading picture that isn't accurate at all."  We just don't know.
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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4586 on: May 05, 2021, 03:19:39 PM »
Marc, that all sound perfectly logical.  And, again, based on what info we have, I think those are pretty sound conclusions to draw.  Again, however, I hate to go down that road, because we have such a limited picture to go off of.  For all we know, if the band were to read that post, they might genuinely laugh at it and say, "No, that's not even remotely close.  I guess the way the facts came out, it may have inadvertently painted a picture that could lead someone to believe that.  But that's actually a really misleading picture that isn't accurate at all."  We just don't know.

Very good point, and yeah, no one outside of the band (and maybe those close to them) knows exactly what went on during and after those sessions, especially since the album took almost a year to complete, so a lot went on that the less-than-an-hour documentary didn't even cover. I haven't watched Neal's Inner Circle Making Of TBOL yet (because the Radiant site is a POS and downloading/unzipping the file for it doesn't want to work for me), so I'm not sure how much further Neal delves into the creation of his version, but even then, I doubt he'll ever divulge everything that went on in his mind about the creation of TAU, especially if it meant revealing he may have felt under-represented on Forevermore.

What it boils down to is that Neal and Roine are very much used to getting their way in their respective band, and Transatlantic, while striving to be truly collaborative, has always had a slightly more Morse-ian feel to it, even if other members sang or wrote parts throughout each album. Even if he didn't write it, just having Neal sing over another's music even gives the sense that it was written by Neal. I think he has definitely lightened up a bit on wanting to have his voice heard in Flying Colors and the Neal Morse Band over the last 7 years or so, and maybe he felt like he could still get more of his ideas in with Transatlantic, and because that didn't happen as much during the TAU sessions, he thought doing a different mix of the album could be his way to have his voice heard? Again, I think if Pete didn't rattle around the idea of making the album shorter, perhaps Neal would not have gone back to that idea months after the initial sessions and tried to make his own 60 minute edit... not that we should blame Pete for that, but it's a possibility that I've thought about. I don't think all four members have ever been on the same page about anything *initially*, but after some discussion, I think they all come to agreements about things in a civil manner. I mean, obviously the band is still together, and of course Roine is going to hype up Forevermore more because he spearheaded it, so maybe we're just reading into things a bit too much?

Maybe once the band is done, someone can write a book about Transatlantic, and they can finally reveal all of the dirty little secrets they each have had throughout the years! A sort of tell-all book about the history of Transatlantic!

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4587 on: May 05, 2021, 03:42:41 PM »
I can't remember if we discussed this angle or not, but given how Portnoy, by his own admission, really will fight to get his way in the studio, had he and Neal been on the same side in this scenario, I can't help but think that he would have sided with Neal and the album would have been released that way. But since Portnoy was on the side of Forevermore, he probably didn't want to go against his closest friend in the band, hence the suggestion to release two versions.  Doesn't that seems like a safe assumption?

Offline HOF

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4588 on: May 05, 2021, 03:43:41 PM »
On Neal’s recent podcast with Steve Hackett, he went kind of in depth about how much he appreciates the freedom of being a solo artist and how sometimes it is really hard for him to compromise on things he’s written, even though he acknowledged there are also times when collaborations are necessary or lead to an improvement over his ideas. I thought it was interesting to hear him talk about it (he brought it up in the context of Steve leaving Genesis). I think he realizes he can be pretty hard nosed about it. But he also talked in that episode about seeing Spock’s Beard playing on Cruise to the Edge and kind of missing being in the band.

Anyway, judging by those comments I do think he probably did push to get his way on TBOL and Mike probably saved the day a bit with his compromise. Which is interesting because Mike has always kind of been that guy in the past, so a maybe he’s mellowed a bit. Hopefully it hasn’t caused a real rift with Roine.

Offline Kram

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4589 on: May 05, 2021, 03:47:50 PM »
I can't remember if we discussed this angle or not, but given how Portnoy, by his own admission, really will fight to get his way in the studio, had he and Neal been on the same side in this scenario, I can't help but think that he would have sided with Neal and the album would have been released that way. But since Portnoy was on the side of Forevermore, he probably didn't want to go against his closest friend in the band, hence the suggestion to release two versions.  Doesn't that seems like a safe assumption?

Sounds reasonable.  And I'm sure Portnoy was the one who "fought to get his way" with the label (releasing both versions).

Offline darkshade

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4590 on: May 05, 2021, 04:47:41 PM »
I can't remember if we discussed this angle or not, but given how Portnoy, by his own admission, really will fight to get his way in the studio, had he and Neal been on the same side in this scenario, I can't help but think that he would have sided with Neal and the album would have been released that way. But since Portnoy was on the side of Forevermore, he probably didn't want to go against his closest friend in the band, hence the suggestion to release two versions.  Doesn't that seems like a safe assumption?

Sounds like the tension could have been between Neal and Mike instead.

But I don't think there is tension between members of the band, I think that's overthinking things based on things said in interviews and the presentation of the album.

I feel like there won't be a tour for TAU, which might be a blessing in disguise for the band, by not having to worry about what they would play (probably the Ultimate version but who knows, since many fans will probably only have gotten Forevermore or TBOL. I don't see them touring until the middle of next year at the earliest, and by then, the album is almost two years old for the public, 3 years old for the band. They'll each have released a dozen albums with their own bands by then, if not more. I think they should just regroup in 2023 for TA6 for a 2024 release date and tour that album with lots of TAU mixed in the sets.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4591 on: May 05, 2021, 06:52:01 PM »
I doubt there was tension between Neal and Portnoy, probably just a disagreement over the best way to present the final album.  Not that they are going to run out and tell everyone if there was, but they seem like they have a good working relationship and can deal with disagreements pretty well. And they got past the big blowout during the Similitude sessions, so I'd be shocked if any disagreement over this TA album escalated to anything more than a spirited discussion.

Offline The Curious Orange

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4592 on: May 06, 2021, 06:01:37 AM »
These guys are all too professional and experienced in the music biz to really fall out. having different opinions about the music is part of the joint creative process, it's not like these guys are Fleetwood Mac or anything.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4593 on: May 06, 2021, 08:51:10 AM »

I can't help feeling that there is more to this multiple album versions than the band is letting on.  As I've seen mentioned elsewhere and on social media, I sense a bit of tension between Neal and Roine.  I can't point to anything specific, call it a gut feeling.


I know exactly what you're saying, and I have the same feeling.   I've felt this since day one, frankly.   Remember, there's a "The Roine Mix" version of the first album released after the fact.  I just went through ripping all my Transatlantic to my network drive, and when watching the short mini-docs on the Special Editions of the first two records, there seems to be a distance with Roine.  Maybe it's just personality, maybe it's just the comfort of friends (or the "awkwardness" of new acquaintances) but there's a distinct difference in how Pete, Mike and Neal interact and how Roine fits in.   

All speculation of course, as I've only ever met Neal and Mike, and never even been in the same room as Roine.  So take that for what it's worth.  I'll be watching the "Kaliedoscope" doc this weekend, so I'll be on the look out for any more clues.

Offline RoeDent

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4594 on: May 06, 2021, 08:59:40 AM »
They may be experienced and all that, but this is the first time we've ever talked about there being real tension in this particular band. This feels like a new challenge, and maybe it's a good thing this isn't a permanent band. Maybe they'll come back fresher and ready to move on for the next album in 5 years or so.

Online Kyo

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4595 on: May 06, 2021, 09:10:20 AM »
Not true. Roine has been very openly critical of the way Kaleidoscope came together back in the day, taking issue with the small amount of time they spent putting the album together and voicing his opposition to including Beyond the Sun to the point of declining to play on it. I found that pretty remarkable at the time, but also promising for the future, seeing how I mostly agreed with him. And they did ultimately spend more time writing the next album in Sweden, so it seems they did listen to him.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4596 on: May 06, 2021, 12:51:35 PM »
I didn't know that about Beyond the Sun but boy do I agree with all of that.   

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4597 on: May 06, 2021, 01:04:24 PM »
I like the songs Bridge Across Forever and Beyond the Sun, but it always seemed weird to have what seemed like essentially solo Neal songs on Transatlantic albums.

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4598 on: May 13, 2021, 08:34:53 PM »
According to this Facebook by Roine Stolt, preorders for the new pressing of Bridge Across Forever vinyls will begin in a few weeks.

-Marc.
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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4599 on: May 14, 2021, 09:00:16 AM »
Neal just announced that this coming Monday, May 17th, the next Inner Circle release will come out, which will be his demos for The Absolute Universe! Included are three tracks: a slower piece called "Be Still", a 40-minute epic track "The Big One", and a demo of "Can You Feel It".

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1966479956825909

It'll be interesting to see how his original ideas evolved and changed, as usual, especially with that 40-minute demo!

-Marc.
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Online frogprog

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4600 on: May 17, 2021, 06:35:04 AM »
My SMPTe vinyl arrived in the mail from Germany! I have loved this album since i was first blown away by it in 1999. Lucky enough to have seen one of the shows in Philly and got to meet the fellas for the first time that night. EDIT not true, i met MP at an in store before SFAM show- i think that was first. I haven't listened yet but the vinyl is a really cool looking pink tie dye called bubble gum splatter. I do wish Inside Out provided download cards though. This album is going to the dessert island with me (hope i can dig up a turntable there!!)

Online The Letter M

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4601 on: June 03, 2021, 01:10:37 PM »
Mike has announced that Transatlantic will be performing on Cruise To The Edge 2022!



Now we can finally speculate which version(s) of TAU they'll be playing!

-Marc.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4602 on: June 03, 2021, 01:50:49 PM »
Cool that they got that spot.  But looking at the roster, this is a VERY hard pass for me.  Other than TA and King's X, I have no interest in any of those bands (and actively dislike a couple).  Interesting that no other Morse/Portnoy project is on the roster. 
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Offline goo-goo

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4603 on: June 03, 2021, 02:20:02 PM »
Cool that they got that spot.  But looking at the roster, this is a VERY hard pass for me.  Other than TA and King's X, I have no interest in any of those bands (and actively dislike a couple).  Interesting that no other Morse/Portnoy project is on the roster.

Interesting Bosk. I would love to go this cruise with this lineup. Marillion, Transatlantic, King's X, McStine Minnemann, Pain of Salvion, Flower Kings, Stick Men (awesome improvs live), Riverside, Pendragon (last two albums have been very very good); Headspace (Oliver Wakeman and Damian Wilson), and Haken. It's a very complete lineup as far as prog goes.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4604 on: June 03, 2021, 02:23:22 PM »
Is that Al Stewart as in "Year of the Cat" Al Stewart?  That dude has got to be older than fucking dirt  :lol

Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4605 on: June 03, 2021, 02:28:50 PM »
Is that Al Stewart as in "Year of the Cat" Al Stewart?  That dude has got to be older than fucking dirt  :lol
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Offline Kram

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4606 on: June 03, 2021, 02:32:45 PM »
Cool that they got that spot.  But looking at the roster, this is a VERY hard pass for me.  Other than TA and King's X, I have no interest in any of those bands (and actively dislike a couple).  Interesting that no other Morse/Portnoy project is on the roster.
I'm guessing more bands will be announced and I'm thinking The NMB could be one of them..

Offline bosk1

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4607 on: June 03, 2021, 03:52:52 PM »
Cool that they got that spot.  But looking at the roster, this is a VERY hard pass for me.  Other than TA and King's X, I have no interest in any of those bands (and actively dislike a couple).  Interesting that no other Morse/Portnoy project is on the roster.

Interesting Bosk. I would love to go this cruise with this lineup. Marillion, Transatlantic, King's X, McStine Minnemann, Pain of Salvion, Flower Kings, Stick Men (awesome improvs live), Riverside, Pendragon (last two albums have been very very good); Headspace (Oliver Wakeman and Damian Wilson), and Haken. It's a very complete lineup as far as prog goes.

If I somehow made the mistake of wandering into the wrong part of the ship at the wrong time and hearing Haken play, I might very likely attempt to jump overboard.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4608 on: June 03, 2021, 03:55:04 PM »


If I somehow made the mistake of wandering into the wrong part of the ship at the wrong time and hearing Haken play, I might very likely attempt to jump overboard.

If it's material from their last album, well, not saying I'd jump with ya, but I'd be moving to the other side of the ship for sure.

First four albums are still money, though (and chunks of the fifth).

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4609 on: June 03, 2021, 03:59:50 PM »
Cool that they got that spot.  But looking at the roster, this is a VERY hard pass for me.  Other than TA and King's X, I have no interest in any of those bands (and actively dislike a couple).  Interesting that no other Morse/Portnoy project is on the roster.

Interesting Bosk. I would love to go this cruise with this lineup. Marillion, Transatlantic, King's X, McStine Minnemann, Pain of Salvion, Flower Kings, Stick Men (awesome improvs live), Riverside, Pendragon (last two albums have been very very good); Headspace (Oliver Wakeman and Damian Wilson), and Haken. It's a very complete lineup as far as prog goes.

If I somehow made the mistake of wandering into the wrong part of the ship at the wrong time and hearing Haken play, I might very likely attempt to jump overboard.
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Offline darkshade

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4610 on: June 03, 2021, 05:33:18 PM »


If I somehow made the mistake of wandering into the wrong part of the ship at the wrong time and hearing Haken play, I might very likely attempt to jump overboard.

If it's material from their last album, well, not saying I'd jump with ya, but I'd be moving to the other side of the ship for sure.

First four albums are still money, though (and chunks of the fifth).

To my ears, Haken is one of those bands where the first album was the best, and each successive album was gradually less good, until the last two albums where they took a nose dive. I don't even own those last two albums. I do enjoy the first 4, but the singer puts me off so Haken never became an obsessive band for me like DT or other prog bands.

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4611 on: June 04, 2021, 12:16:03 PM »


If I somehow made the mistake of wandering into the wrong part of the ship at the wrong time and hearing Haken play, I might very likely attempt to jump overboard.

If it's material from their last album, well, not saying I'd jump with ya, but I'd be moving to the other side of the ship for sure.

First four albums are still money, though (and chunks of the fifth).

All I read from there is "Haken blows chunks".   ;) :) :) :) :)

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4612 on: June 04, 2021, 01:04:32 PM »


If I somehow made the mistake of wandering into the wrong part of the ship at the wrong time and hearing Haken play, I might very likely attempt to jump overboard.

If it's material from their last album, well, not saying I'd jump with ya, but I'd be moving to the other side of the ship for sure.

First four albums are still money, though (and chunks of the fifth).

All I read from there is "Haken blows chunks".   ;) :) :) :) :)

Damn, so your vision, to go along with your hearing, has been affected this badly in a negative way by a lifetime of listening to Kiss? :P

Offline Stadler

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4613 on: June 04, 2021, 01:07:02 PM »


If I somehow made the mistake of wandering into the wrong part of the ship at the wrong time and hearing Haken play, I might very likely attempt to jump overboard.

If it's material from their last album, well, not saying I'd jump with ya, but I'd be moving to the other side of the ship for sure.

First four albums are still money, though (and chunks of the fifth).

All I read from there is "Haken blows chunks".   ;) :) :) :) :)

Damn, so your vision, to go along with your hearing, has been affected this badly in a negative way by a lifetime of listening to Kiss? :P

And you smell funny.  ;) :) :)

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4614 on: June 04, 2021, 01:07:55 PM »
Yeah, but that washes off.  The stench of listening to Kiss never does. ;)

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4615 on: June 04, 2021, 01:15:22 PM »


If I somehow made the mistake of wandering into the wrong part of the ship at the wrong time and hearing Haken play, I might very likely attempt to jump overboard.

If it's material from their last album, well, not saying I'd jump with ya, but I'd be moving to the other side of the ship for sure.

First four albums are still money, though (and chunks of the fifth).

To my ears, Haken is one of those bands where the first album was the best, and each successive album was gradually less good, until the last two albums where they took a nose dive. I don't even own those last two albums. I do enjoy the first 4, but the singer puts me off so Haken never became an obsessive band for me like DT or other prog bands.


Same.  Whenever I listen to Haken (which is not very often) it's one of the first 4 albums.  The singer has always been the biggest challenge for me. 

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4616 on: June 05, 2021, 02:42:57 AM »
Aquarius is one of the best debut albums of all time for me, but whenever I put on Vector, Virus or Affinity on right after it, Aquarius actually sounds a little childish in comparison  :lol

For me, Haken hit a whole new level with Affinity and the last two albums. I might be one of the few people who think so, but that is 100% what I think. It was with Affinity that Haken became one of my all-time favorite bands and Vector and Virus reinforced that.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4617 on: June 05, 2021, 07:29:00 AM »
Aquarius is one of the best debut albums of all time for me, but whenever I put on Vector, Virus or Affinity on right after it, Aquarius actually sounds a little childish in comparison  :lol

For me, Haken hit a whole new level with Affinity and the last two albums. I might be one of the few people who think so, but that is 100% what I think. It was with Affinity that Haken became one of my all-time favorite bands and Vector and Virus reinforced that.

I totally disagree.  Aquarias sounds like a band chock full of energy and melodies and ideas, all of which they threw on that album, while the last two albums sound like a band who has become too focused on being metal and having crazy tempo changes and too often have forgotten what a good melody is.  Not saying the metal and tempo changes weren't always there, but the balance is just off now, IMO.  Hoping it tilts back on the next record, but losing Diego could be a crippling blow.

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4618 on: June 05, 2021, 07:32:27 AM »
Aquarius is one of the best debut albums of all time for me, but whenever I put on Vector, Virus or Affinity on right after it, Aquarius actually sounds a little childish in comparison  :lol

For me, Haken hit a whole new level with Affinity and the last two albums. I might be one of the few people who think so, but that is 100% what I think. It was with Affinity that Haken became one of my all-time favorite bands and Vector and Virus reinforced that.

I totally disagree.  Aquarias sounds like a band chock full of energy and melodies and ideas, all of which they threw on that album, while the last two albums sound like a band who has become too focused on being metal and having crazy tempo changes and too often have forgotten what a good melody is.  Not saying the metal and tempo changes weren't always there, but the balance is just off now, IMO.  Hoping it tilts back on the next record, but losing Diego could be a crippling blow.

Wait…is Diego out? It sounds like he wasn’t even in the room when they recorded Virus.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Transatlantic: The Absolute Universe
« Reply #4619 on: June 05, 2021, 07:35:40 AM »

Wait…is Diego out? It sounds like he wasn’t even in the room when they recorded Virus.

I still don't think it has been made official, but it is all but confirmed by multiple sources, including Nick (below) who seems in the loop and wouldn't say something like that without having the knowledge to back it up.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=42638.msg2750600#msg2750600