Transatlantic Official Thread

[HOF]

The easiest way to cut it down to one disc:

1) The overtures are superfluous and over-long (both versions). They add unnecessary length to the whole thing. If you were trying to cut it down to one disc, that should have been an easy place to start.

2) Similarly, The Sun Comes Up Today exists only because there is a second disc. It’s also the worst vocal performance on the album (sorry Pete!). Chop that and the overture and we’ve already shaved close to 14 minutes!

3) Love Made A Way (Prelude) is just slow and boring and could have been ditched easily (over 16 minutes!). It’s also unnecessary if you drop Love Made Away as suggested in point 4.

4) Come up with a more concise finale that doesn’t just blandly recycle themes from earlier in the album. I think you could have used Can You Feel it for the closer and that would have been perfect. Not sure if this song was around for the original sessions or if Neal came up with it after he started working on TBOL.

[The Letter M]

Given that the band had originally intended on a releasing a double anyway, I don't think they would've considered a shorter version if Neal hadn't sent his "Am I Crazy?" email back in March of 2020. Had the pandemic not happened, I'm sure there might have been less leniency in terms of letting Neal do his edit. The label probably would have said no and asked them to sort out a tour last summer/fall on the Forevermore/original version of the album, and we never would have gotten TBOL or the Ultimate mixes.

If anyone wanted a shorter, single-disc version of the album, they got TBOL. It sucks missing out on some of the Forevermore material, but in another world, if the band had agreed to releasing only Neal's vision, TBOL would be the only version of the album we ever got, and it would've ended up being their shortest album ever. Granted, had that happened, and there was no pandemic (assuming the music would be the same but the lyrics changed), they probably would've gone on tour by now, playing TBOL, but also had more room for a bunch of older material. The first set would've been TBOL, with a second set and encore of classic TA songs, and I'm sure it would've been a huge success too, even if the new album might not have been received as well. Can you imagine what the reception to TAU would have been like if we had gotten JUST TBOL? Would folks say it was better or worse than Kaleidoscope, never knowing that there was a longer, 90-minute version of the album with all that material cut out?

Personally, I am glad we got what we got, effectively the best of both (all) worlds. Will I ever listen to Forevermore or TBOL ever again? Maybe, as a curiosity, but the Ultimate Mix gives me what I want from both, for the most part, and I am really happy that the band and the label allowed them to release all of it because, as they say, "More Never Is Enough" in the Transatlantic world. Thankfully, because of the pandemic, they were able to release it without having to logistically figure out how to tour on this material (yet). It'll be a big task for them to figure out how to play it all live when they come to it, but I'd say we're at least a year off from that ever happening.

And as far as "Love Made A Way" - I can see/hear why some folks find it flat and repetitious but I've grown to love it, maybe not as much as "Dancing With Eternal Glory / Whirlwind Reprise", but I think it does its duty very well on the album. The extended timpani ending was a bit odd to me at first, but I think it makes it a bit unique compared to how their other albums end, and I like the ambient quality of the ending, it fits with the sapce traveling theme well. I think having watched the Ultimate Mix several times also kind of helped me appreciate the finale a bit more.

I do have to wonder if when they get around to playing the album live, will they change anything once again, adding (or subtracting) music to make the live version stand out even more and become a FOURTH version of the album? I'm sure Mike will want to push it over 100 minutes if possible! It'll be unprecedented! 

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

No clue if having two releases is the reason, but I glanced at current ratings of the new album at a few sites and both have similar ratings to Kaleidoscope (Forevermore is rated higher almost everywhere than TBOL), so it would appear as if fans in general think the new album overall is closer in quality to Kaleidoscope than the first three albums.  I would probably agree with that.  It's definitely better than Kaleidoscope, but I can't say any version of the new album touches SMPTe, BAF or The Whirlwind.

[HOF]

No clue if having two releases is the reason, but I glanced at current ratings of the new album at a few sites and both have similar ratings to Kaleidoscope (Forevermore is rated higher almost everywhere than TBOL), so it would appear as if fans in general think the new album overall is closer in quality to Kaleidoscope than the first three albums.  I would probably agree with that.  It's definitely better than Kaleidoscope, but I can't say any version of the new album touches SMPTe, BAF or The Whirlwind.

I’ve enjoyed both versions more than I did The Whirlwind. I think these are a pretty clear step up from that one in my book. Just more memorable songs for whatever reason (I still can’t recall much of The Whirlwind off the top of my head except for some annoying parts like “is it really happening”).

[kirksnosehair]

Transatlantic only has one album I like more than this one now and that's Bridge Across Forever. 

[The Letter M]

Transatlantic only has one album I like more than this one now and that's Bridge Across Forever.

I can get with that. I, too, have come to really love TAU a lot, though for me, it sits just below The Whirlwind. I couldn't find it in this thread, but I remember posting my TA rankings not too long ago (maybe it was in a Neal Morse thread), but anyway, here we go again:
Bridge Across Forever*
The Whirlwind
The Absolute Universe (The Ultimate Edition Mix)
The Absolute Universe (Forevermore)
SMPT:e (The Roine Stolt Mixes)
Kaleidoscope
The Absolute Universe (The Breath Of Life)
SMPT:e (Original Mix)

*This is my personal edit of BAF, which takes the hidden track ending of "Suite Charlotte Pike" and re-inserts it at the end of the song (undoing the fade-out and fade-in), and then segueing SCP into the opening of the title track, crossfading them, so that the only break in the music comes between "Bridge Across Forever" and "Stranger In Your Soul".

-Marc.

[kirksnosehair]

I have to get around to checking out those Stolt mixes at some point

[Kram]

Transatlantic only has one album I like more than this one now and that's Bridge Across Forever.

BAF
Forevermore
Whirlwind
SMPT:e
Kaleidoscope

[kirksnosehair]

that's about how I rank them 

[emtee]

I honestly can't rank them except to say Kaleidoscope is last.

On any given day, any of the other 4 could be #1. They are all amazing albums.

[kirksnosehair]

Speaking of Kaleidoscope, I just noticed yesterday that one of the main riffs in "Into The Blue" is the exact same riff that's in "Monster Within" - the fourth track on TFK album "Space Revolver" The similarity is unmistakable.  Nearly identical if not exactly identical.  I think the key might be different

[kirksnosehair]

And uh, just to be clear, I'm not putting that out as a criticism at all.  It may be intentional or it may have just been a coincidence, who knows, but I just thought it was cool when I noticed this nuggetz 

[Fritzinger]

Speaking of Kaleidoscope, I just noticed yesterday that one of the main riffs in "Into The Blue" is the exact same riff that's in "Monster Within" - the fourth track on TFK album "Space Revolver" The similarity is unmistakable.  Nearly identical if not exactly identical.  I think the key might be different

Could you point out the time stamps please? I'm not too familiar with Space Revolver (yet) 

[kirksnosehair]

Speaking of Kaleidoscope, I just noticed yesterday that one of the main riffs in "Into The Blue" is the exact same riff that's in "Monster Within" - the fourth track on TFK album "Space Revolver" The similarity is unmistakable.  Nearly identical if not exactly identical.  I think the key might be different

Could you point out the time stamps please? I'm not too familiar with Space Revolver (yet) 

OK, gimme a minute

[kirksnosehair]

Space Revolver - the riff that begins at 0:31


Into The Blue - the riff that begins at 3:32




I'm thinking Roine probably brought that to the table or it's just one hell of a coincidence 

[The Letter M]

Space Revolver - the riff that begins at 0:31


Into The Blue - the riff that begins at 3:32




I'm thinking Roine probably brought that to the table or it's just one hell of a coincidence 

I've noticed this before, and I think it's just a case of Roine playing a similar riff again. Neal does this ALL the time, and Pete has even done it before as well (part of "Lending A Hand" at 0:36 sounds very similar to the Kino demo "Throw It Away" at 2:25).

-Marc.

[darkshade]

I think the best way to sum up Kaleidoscope is that it just isn't as memorable as the other 4 albums they've released. It's still a quality release, there is nothing wrong with it on a technical perspective. It's got all the ingredients the band members bring, but for some reason the stars didn't align on this one. I think Into The Blue is underrated, but wouldn't put it above almost all their other epics besides the title track. Perhaps TA is held to a higher standard than say, the newest Neal Morse solo album.

Interestingly, to my ears, the album's release came at a time where I feel both Neal and Roine were at creative lows, compared to what came earlier, and what has been released since by both artists. This was not very long after MP left DT, so maybe he was also not as focused in, or maybe going through the motions. I think this plays a part in why Kaleidoscope just isn't as strong as BAF, TW, and TAU, or have as memorable of songs/epics as SMPTe.

[Ben_Jamin]

I think the best way to sum up Kaleidoscope is that it just isn't as memorable as the other 4 albums they've released. It's still a quality release, there is nothing wrong with it on a technical perspective. It's got all the ingredients the band members bring, but for some reason the stars didn't align on this one. I think Into The Blue is underrated, but wouldn't put it above almost all their other epics besides the title track. Perhaps TA is held to a higher standard than say, the newest Neal Morse solo album.

Interestingly, to my ears, the album's release came at a time where I feel both Neal and Roine were at creative lows, compared to what came earlier, and what has been released since by both artists. This was not very long after MP left DT, so maybe he was also not as focused in, or maybe going through the motions. I think this plays a part in why Kaleidoscope just isn't as strong as BAF, TW, and TAU, or have as memorable of songs/epics as SMPTe.

I feel Kaleidoscope has a real strong Neal and Pete influence, with a dash of Roine.

I enjoy Into The Blue, Black As The Sky, and bits of Kaleidoscope. But, do not like the pacing of Shine or Beyond The Sun. Those two songs are ones I feel they were going through the motions with, to fill out the album and add more tracks besides the other three. And to go back to the first album, since they did a one song concept album.

I like TAU:Forevermore, because it is a double-album concept, that is not one song. And it's something the band hasn't done yet, which is kind of odd knowing how long Transatlantic albums are.

[HOF]

I think the best way to sum up Kaleidoscope is that it just isn't as memorable as the other 4 albums they've released. It's still a quality release, there is nothing wrong with it on a technical perspective. It's got all the ingredients the band members bring, but for some reason the stars didn't align on this one. I think Into The Blue is underrated, but wouldn't put it above almost all their other epics besides the title track. Perhaps TA is held to a higher standard than say, the newest Neal Morse solo album.

Interestingly, to my ears, the album's release came at a time where I feel both Neal and Roine were at creative lows, compared to what came earlier, and what has been released since by both artists. This was not very long after MP left DT, so maybe he was also not as focused in, or maybe going through the motions. I think this plays a part in why Kaleidoscope just isn't as strong as BAF, TW, and TAU, or have as memorable of songs/epics as SMPTe.

I feel Kaleidoscope has a real strong Neal and Pete influence, with a dash of Roine.

I enjoy Into The Blue, Black As The Sky, and bits of Kaleidoscope. But, do not like the pacing of Shine or Beyond The Sun. Those two songs are ones I feel they were going through the motions with, to fill out the album and add more tracks besides the other three. And to go back to the first album, since they did a one song concept album.

I like TAU:Forevermore, because it is a double-album concept, that is not one song. And it's something the band hasn't done yet, which is kind of odd knowing how long Transatlantic albums are.

Shine is really the only song on Kaleidoscope I ever listen to. Yeah, it’s kind of a watered down We All Need Some Light and the chorus is firmly on the hokey side, but I do like the instrumentation and Roine’s solo is really nice.

[Ben_Jamin]

I think the best way to sum up Kaleidoscope is that it just isn't as memorable as the other 4 albums they've released. It's still a quality release, there is nothing wrong with it on a technical perspective. It's got all the ingredients the band members bring, but for some reason the stars didn't align on this one. I think Into The Blue is underrated, but wouldn't put it above almost all their other epics besides the title track. Perhaps TA is held to a higher standard than say, the newest Neal Morse solo album.

Interestingly, to my ears, the album's release came at a time where I feel both Neal and Roine were at creative lows, compared to what came earlier, and what has been released since by both artists. This was not very long after MP left DT, so maybe he was also not as focused in, or maybe going through the motions. I think this plays a part in why Kaleidoscope just isn't as strong as BAF, TW, and TAU, or have as memorable of songs/epics as SMPTe.

I feel Kaleidoscope has a real strong Neal and Pete influence, with a dash of Roine.

I enjoy Into The Blue, Black As The Sky, and bits of Kaleidoscope. But, do not like the pacing of Shine or Beyond The Sun. Those two songs are ones I feel they were going through the motions with, to fill out the album and add more tracks besides the other three. And to go back to the first album, since they did a one song concept album.

I like TAU:Forevermore, because it is a double-album concept, that is not one song. And it's something the band hasn't done yet, which is kind of odd knowing how long Transatlantic albums are.

Shine is really the only song on Kaleidoscope I ever listen to. Yeah, it’s kind of a watered down We All Need Some Light and the chorus is firmly on the hokey side, but I do like the instrumentation and Roine’s solo is really nice.

It's not a bad song.

It's just really Church Gospel sounding, and I just can't help but picture an outside church service and the pastor with the church band playing this song. 

And I hear this in a lot of Neal Morse songs.

These 2 songs just ruin the pacing of the album for me, and feel like their usual styles and using these to fill out the album, going through the motions to have a soft song, type of thing.

[HOF]

I think the best way to sum up Kaleidoscope is that it just isn't as memorable as the other 4 albums they've released. It's still a quality release, there is nothing wrong with it on a technical perspective. It's got all the ingredients the band members bring, but for some reason the stars didn't align on this one. I think Into The Blue is underrated, but wouldn't put it above almost all their other epics besides the title track. Perhaps TA is held to a higher standard than say, the newest Neal Morse solo album.

Interestingly, to my ears, the album's release came at a time where I feel both Neal and Roine were at creative lows, compared to what came earlier, and what has been released since by both artists. This was not very long after MP left DT, so maybe he was also not as focused in, or maybe going through the motions. I think this plays a part in why Kaleidoscope just isn't as strong as BAF, TW, and TAU, or have as memorable of songs/epics as SMPTe.

I feel Kaleidoscope has a real strong Neal and Pete influence, with a dash of Roine.

I enjoy Into The Blue, Black As The Sky, and bits of Kaleidoscope. But, do not like the pacing of Shine or Beyond The Sun. Those two songs are ones I feel they were going through the motions with, to fill out the album and add more tracks besides the other three. And to go back to the first album, since they did a one song concept album.

I like TAU:Forevermore, because it is a double-album concept, that is not one song. And it's something the band hasn't done yet, which is kind of odd knowing how long Transatlantic albums are.

Shine is really the only song on Kaleidoscope I ever listen to. Yeah, it’s kind of a watered down We All Need Some Light and the chorus is firmly on the hokey side, but I do like the instrumentation and Roine’s solo is really nice.

It's not a bad song.

It's just really Church Gospel sounding, and I just can't help but picture an outside church service and the pastor with the church band playing this song. 

And I hear this in a lot of Neal Morse songs.

These 2 songs just ruin the pacing of the album for me, and feel like their usual styles and using these to fill out the album, going through the motions to have a soft song, type of thing.

Beyond the Sun is just dreadful.

[Ben_Jamin]

I think the best way to sum up Kaleidoscope is that it just isn't as memorable as the other 4 albums they've released. It's still a quality release, there is nothing wrong with it on a technical perspective. It's got all the ingredients the band members bring, but for some reason the stars didn't align on this one. I think Into The Blue is underrated, but wouldn't put it above almost all their other epics besides the title track. Perhaps TA is held to a higher standard than say, the newest Neal Morse solo album.

Interestingly, to my ears, the album's release came at a time where I feel both Neal and Roine were at creative lows, compared to what came earlier, and what has been released since by both artists. This was not very long after MP left DT, so maybe he was also not as focused in, or maybe going through the motions. I think this plays a part in why Kaleidoscope just isn't as strong as BAF, TW, and TAU, or have as memorable of songs/epics as SMPTe.

I feel Kaleidoscope has a real strong Neal and Pete influence, with a dash of Roine.

I enjoy Into The Blue, Black As The Sky, and bits of Kaleidoscope. But, do not like the pacing of Shine or Beyond The Sun. Those two songs are ones I feel they were going through the motions with, to fill out the album and add more tracks besides the other three. And to go back to the first album, since they did a one song concept album.

I like TAU:Forevermore, because it is a double-album concept, that is not one song. And it's something the band hasn't done yet, which is kind of odd knowing how long Transatlantic albums are.

Shine is really the only song on Kaleidoscope I ever listen to. Yeah, it’s kind of a watered down We All Need Some Light and the chorus is firmly on the hokey side, but I do like the instrumentation and Roine’s solo is really nice.

It's not a bad song.

It's just really Church Gospel sounding, and I just can't help but picture an outside church service and the pastor with the church band playing this song. 

And I hear this in a lot of Neal Morse songs.

These 2 songs just ruin the pacing of the album for me, and feel like their usual styles and using these to fill out the album, going through the motions to have a soft song, type of thing.

Beyond the Sun is just dreadful.

I don't even remember how it goes... 

I think I'm gonna listen to Kaleidoscope. It's been a while. I just mainly just listen to Black As The Sky, and every once in a while Into The Blue.

[KevShmev]

Roine's solo is killer, but I agree that Shine, by and large, sounds like a poor man's We All Need Some Light.  I enjoy it on occasion, but it's not a favorite by any means.

[gzarruk]

Roine's solo is killer, but I agree that Shine, by and large, sounds like a poor man's We All Need Some Light.  I enjoy it on occasion, but it's not a favorite by any means.

And BTS is a poor man's BAF.

[HOF]

Roine's solo is killer, but I agree that Shine, by and large, sounds like a poor man's We All Need Some Light.  I enjoy it on occasion, but it's not a favorite by any means.

And BTS is a poor man's BAF.

It’s a very poor man’s BAF crossed with The Distance to the Sun (both great songs), but somehow there’s just no melody there.

[KevShmev]

To circle back to the long fadeout at the end of the new album, I don't know why a lot of proggers nowadays have an infatuation with that.  I mean, after that long of an album, do we really need that long of a fadeout after the climax hits?  I edited the long fadeout at the end of DT's Losing Time/Grand Finale down many years ago, and I need to do that with this one here soon as well. 

[425]

I love Beyond the Sun, and really all of the last three tracks on Kaleidoscope. I think it's the first two that cause it to place a cut below Bridge Across Forever and The Whirlwind. Don't where TAU will end up for me yet, but the first four are definitely:

The Whirlwind
Bridge Across Forever
Kaleidoscope
SMPTe

I think the top two are untouchable, and TAU is ahead of at least about the debut (I love All of the Above and We All Need Some Light, but I'm indifferent toward Mystery Train and enjoy but don't love My New World and In Held). But I don't know whether it beats Kaleidoscope. I think it might have more strong parts on the whole, but it also has some parts I outright don't like (at least one of which is repeated over and over and over and over: "Be-long, be-long, better to belong").

[kirksnosehair]

To circle back to the long fadeout at the end of the new album, I don't know why a lot of proggers nowadays have an infatuation with that.  I mean, after that long of an album, do we really need that long of a fadeout after the climax hits?  I edited the long fadeout at the end of DT's Losing Time/Grand Finale down many years ago, and I need to do that with this one here soon as well.

The ending of this latest TA album is the only thing I don't like about it.  So anticlimactic.  I felt the same about The Whirlwind as well, in fact I deleted that last track from my phone because I always turn the album off when that last song begins.  Too religious for me.

[darkshade]

Musically, I think the last track on TW is great, maybe a little too long but is the payoff we all wish the ending of TAU was. TAU's ending is underwhelming, and the album overall could have had less theme reprises on so many of the songs. It's what keeps it from topping TW for me (and BAF to an extent, I have that album tied with TAU. Both TAU and BAF are some of the band's best, but also have things I'm not as into. TAU is just longer.)

[KevShmev]

I will say what I have said numerous times: if the first and last songs on The Whirlwind were as great as the rest, it would be my favorite TA record.  And it is still pretty close.  I like the first and last songs, but both seem a bit overcooked.  I know, a 77-minute album that runs non-stop needs a long overture and an epic finisher, but both could have been tightened up a bit rather than feeling the need to jam pack every main theme seemingly into both.  The Wind That Blew Them All Away through Rose Covered Glasses is still possibly the greatest stretch of music the band has done to date.

[425]

I love both the Whirlwind Overture and Dancing with Eternal Glory. DwEG has the advantage (over Love Made a Way) of having a number of melodies that have not been sung yet. And, say what you will about reprises, "A man can feel his spirit in the sky..." is one of my favorites, in part because it's not the song you expect to hear reprised there and the emotional content is reversed.

For me the weak part of that song, to the extent that such exists, is Lay Down Your Life, and that's really just because I'm not crazy about Neal's head voice.

[kirksnosehair]

The reprises are cool, I don't mind those at all, but there is no need to just bang on the same chord for 3 and half minutes at the end of TAU. 

[The Letter M]

The reprises are cool, I don't mind those at all, but there is no need to just bang on the same chord for 3 and half minutes at the end of TAU.

I just checked and the last chord only goes on for 97 seconds on the Ultimate Mix, and 91 seconds on Forevermore, and 104 seconds on TBOL.

I didn't think it was "3 and a half minutes". To compare, the ending chord to DWEG goes on for 56 seconds, and the ending of AOTA goes on for 165 seconds (and 169 seconds on the Roine Stolt Mixes).

-Marc.

[kirksnosehair]

The reprises are cool, I don't mind those at all, but there is no need to just bang on the same chord for 3 and half minutes at the end of TAU.

I just checked and the last chord only goes on for 97 seconds on the Ultimate Mix, and 91 seconds on Forevermore, and 104 seconds on TBOL.

I didn't think it was "3 and a half minutes". To compare, the ending chord to DWEG goes on for 56 seconds, and the ending of AOTA goes on for 165 seconds (and 169 seconds on the Roine Stolt Mixes).

-Marc.

Sarcasm, bruh 

[The Letter M]

The reprises are cool, I don't mind those at all, but there is no need to just bang on the same chord for 3 and half minutes at the end of TAU.

I just checked and the last chord only goes on for 97 seconds on the Ultimate Mix, and 91 seconds on Forevermore, and 104 seconds on TBOL.

I didn't think it was "3 and a half minutes". To compare, the ending chord to DWEG goes on for 56 seconds, and the ending of AOTA goes on for 165 seconds (and 169 seconds on the Roine Stolt Mixes).

-Marc.

Sarcasm, bruh 

Wait, we can use sarcasm in online text forums?

-Marc.