Transatlantic Official Thread

[kirksnosehair]

I am still utterly baffled by that decision.  Portnoy doing the odd song here and there I can take, but they need to leave Pete on backing vocals only, in my opinion. 

[Ben_Jamin]

Now that we've had these albums a couple weeks, I'm curious as to the overall concept of multiple versions. I find myself falling into a groove of one or the other but when I switch, it's really throwing me off. I can't imagine having multiple versions of any of my favorite albums. Not that more isn't better or worse, just that the concept of multiple sort of changes how I digest and memorize. Overall I'm finding it weird.

This is a reason, I knew I was going to end up making a playlist that mixes certain songs from both albums. If I really wanted to, but don't want to take the time, I would've made one that splices the good parts I like from both versions.

I haven't heard the Blu-Ray version. For those that have, is it just the songs placed in a certain order, or does Portnoy actually split sections from both versions into one song, like take a chorus from Forevermore and the verse from The Breath of Life?

[XeRocks81]

I am still utterly baffled by that decision.  Portnoy doing the odd song here and there I can take, but they need to leave Pete on backing vocals only, in my opinion.

I remember when I first listened to The Whirlwind and Pete came in as the first lead vocal on the whole album I felt similar bewilderment.   I'm used to it now but it still seems like an odd choice.   If I recall the making of (it's been a while) he was the one who wrote that part but Pete would be the first to say he's no lead singer right? 

[bosk1]

I am still utterly baffled by that decision.  Portnoy doing the odd song here and there I can take, but they need to leave Pete on backing vocals only, in my opinion. 

Fair enough.  I'm still baffled that this opinion exists.  So I guess we're equally baffled. 

[Fritzinger]

I am still utterly baffled by that decision.  Portnoy doing the odd song here and there I can take, but they need to leave Pete on backing vocals only, in my opinion.

I remember when I first listened to The Whirlwind and Pete came in as the first lead vocal on the whole album I felt similar bewilderment.   I'm used to it now but it still seems like an odd choice.   If I recall the making of (it's been a while) he was the one who wrote that part but Pete would be the first to say he's no lead singer right?

If I'm not mistaken, that's Roine singing.

[XeRocks81]

I am still utterly baffled by that decision.  Portnoy doing the odd song here and there I can take, but they need to leave Pete on backing vocals only, in my opinion.

I remember when I first listened to The Whirlwind and Pete came in as the first lead vocal on the whole album I felt similar bewilderment.   I'm used to it now but it still seems like an odd choice.   If I recall the making of (it's been a while) he was the one who wrote that part but Pete would be the first to say he's no lead singer right?

If I'm not mistaken, that's Roine singing.

You're absolutely right, lol.  Nevermind, I must've mixed it up with a demo or something.

[bluefox4000]

I am still utterly baffled by that decision.  Portnoy doing the odd song here and there I can take, but they need to leave Pete on backing vocals only, in my opinion. 

Fair enough.  I'm still baffled that this opinion exists.  So I guess we're equally baffled. 

i'm kinda baffled too i don't find Pete that bad.

but then again.  My Fav artist is Tom Waits. Ya can't go by me

[HOF]

Regarding having two versions of the album, I do think it’s made for an interesting experience and in a lot of ways I’m appreciative of both. However, in terms of connecting with it as an album I do kind of feel not entirely satisfied with either version. Part of it is just the sense that having an alternate version invites you to nitpick about the differing versions rather than just enjoying them for what they are. But that’s not too different from how I experience a lot of albums (I’m frequently making playlists with alternate running orders or track lists for other albums).

That said, I’m mostly just happy that I can say I’ve enjoyed new Transatlantic music 20 years after Bridge Across Forever.

[Peter Mc]

Is that what they’re aiming for though? Not sounding that bad?  “we’ll let Pete/Mike sing this one, it doesn’t sound that bad”. Surely you want it to sound as good as it can rather than settle for an inferior version that doesn’t sound that bad.

[darkshade]

Is that what they’re aiming for though? Not sounding that bad?  “we’ll let Pete/Mike sing this one, it doesn’t sound that bad”. Surely you want it to sound as good as it can rather than settle for an inferior version that doesn’t sound that bad.

They want to be like The Beatles, or other bands where everyone sings. I get it, but that only works when each singer is at least decent/competent besides singing backup vocals. The band does at least have enough sense to keep Mike and Pete's vocals to a minimum, even if this album features them more than previous efforts.

[bluefox4000]

Is that what they’re aiming for though? Not sounding that bad?  “we’ll let Pete/Mike sing this one, it doesn’t sound that bad”. Surely you want it to sound as good as it can rather than settle for an inferior version that doesn’t sound that bad.

honostly i don't think they're thinking.  oh Pete don't sing it's not good enough.  i think they're just doing what they like.....good on them too.

[The Letter M]

Now that we've had these albums a couple weeks, I'm curious as to the overall concept of multiple versions. I find myself falling into a groove of one or the other but when I switch, it's really throwing me off. I can't imagine having multiple versions of any of my favorite albums. Not that more isn't better or worse, just that the concept of multiple sort of changes how I digest and memorize. Overall I'm finding it weird.

This is a reason, I knew I was going to end up making a playlist that mixes certain songs from both albums. If I really wanted to, but don't want to take the time, I would've made one that splices the good parts I like from both versions.

I haven't heard the Blu-Ray version. For those that have, is it just the songs placed in a certain order, or does Portnoy actually split sections from both versions into one song, like take a chorus from Forevermore and the verse from The Breath of Life?

Regarding the Ultimate Mix on the BD, as far as I know, each song/track has a single set of lyrics similar to what it is on its respective home album, so no song mixes lyrics up, but there are instrumental changes in at least thr songs that I know of right off the bat - The Overture includes about a minute more of music unique to the version on TBOL that wasn't in the Forevermore version, so it ends up being longer than either version; and "The Greatest Story Never Ends" includes music unique to BOTH versions, making it the longest of the three; and the finale "Love Made A Way" closes with the timpani from the end of TBOL, but the lyrics at the beginning are from the Forevermore version.

The only songs on the Ultimate Mix that come from TBOL are "Reaching For The Sky", "Take Now My Soul", "Love Made A Way (Prelude)", and "Can You Feel It".

Honestly, it's probably the best way to listen to the album, especially if you like RFTS over HLAW, and TNMS over SHSL, which are the two biggest differences between Forevermore and the Ultimate Mix (aside from including the TBOL-only song CYFI). If you get the BD and are able to rip it, it's an optimal choice for portable listening. I even made an edit of my WAVs that includes the ending of "The World We Used To Know" and the opening of "The Sun Comes Up Today" to create a 2CD-r version of the Ultimate Mix if I don't have my phone or iPod, or just want to keep the CDs in a player for awhile.

-Marc.

[Stadler]

I am still utterly baffled by that decision.  Portnoy doing the odd song here and there I can take, but they need to leave Pete on backing vocals only, in my opinion. 

Fair enough.  I'm still baffled that this opinion exists.  So I guess we're equally baffled. 

i'm kinda baffled too i don't find Pete that bad.

but then again.  My Fav artist is Tom Waits. Ya can't go by me

HAHAHA.

[Kram]

I am still utterly baffled by that decision.  Portnoy doing the odd song here and there I can take, but they need to leave Pete on backing vocals only, in my opinion.

Maybe it was Pete's song so they gave him the honors?  He who writes it gets to sing it?

[425]

I am still utterly baffled by that decision.  Portnoy doing the odd song here and there I can take, but they need to leave Pete on backing vocals only, in my opinion. 

Fair enough.  I'm still baffled that this opinion exists.  So I guess we're equally baffled. 

I get people not liking Pete's voice. But I think once it's clear that there are people who do (bosk evidently does, and I do, too), then I think you have to stop being baffled by the decision to use him. There's an obvious explanation for that decision: They like his voice.

Honestly, it's probably the best way to listen to the album, especially if you like RFTS over HLAW, and TNMS over SHSL, which are the two biggest differences between Forevermore and the Ultimate Mix (aside from including the TBOL-only song CYFI). If you get the BD and are able to rip it, it's an optimal choice for portable listening. I even made an edit of my WAVs that includes the ending of "The World We Used To Know" and the opening of "The Sun Comes Up Today" to create a 2CD-r version of the Ultimate Mix if I don't have my phone or iPod, or just want to keep the CDs in a player for awhile.

-Marc.

Alright, I'm completely sold. I need to make ripping this Blu-Ray a priority. I very specifically prefer RFTS and TNMS over their Forevermore equivalents, really like Can You Feel It, and otherwise want all the Forevermore content. And it's a great bonus to hear that there's stuff from TBOL on the Overture and The Greatest Story.

[HOF]

I am still utterly baffled by that decision.  Portnoy doing the odd song here and there I can take, but they need to leave Pete on backing vocals only, in my opinion. 

Fair enough.  I'm still baffled that this opinion exists.  So I guess we're equally baffled. 

I get people not liking Pete's voice. But I think once it's clear that there are people who do (bosk evidently does, and I do, too), then I think you have to stop being baffled by the decision to use him. There's an obvious explanation for that decision: They like his voice.

Also, it’s his voice. There’s something about an artist just being who he is, and if he wants to sing with the sound of his own voice, more power to him. He’s limited as a singer, but what he sings he doesn’t sing badly so much as he just sounds funny (he sounds funny when he talks too). I’m generally ok with singers who aren’t really technically proficient, especially in prog. It adds a human element that this type of music kind of needs.

[Stadler]

Is that what they’re aiming for though? Not sounding that bad?  “we’ll let Pete/Mike sing this one, it doesn’t sound that bad”. Surely you want it to sound as good as it can rather than settle for an inferior version that doesn’t sound that bad.

They want to be like The Beatles, or other bands where everyone sings. I get it, but that only works when each singer is at least decent/competent besides singing backup vocals. The band does at least have enough sense to keep Mike and Pete's vocals to a minimum, even if this album features them more than previous efforts.

I don't lump Mike in there; I LIKE his singing on this record, and I think it's the best of his career.  I'm assuming that's him sharing with Neal on Take Now My Soul (the second verse); I think that's excellent.  He sounds strong there, without some of the affectations that he sometimes uses.  That may be my favorite song on the record so far (though Can You Feel It is pretty strong).  I like Looking For The Light as well.

[425]

I think there are points on this album where Mike and Neal are a little hard to tell apart. And I think that's partly Neal's voice getting weaker and partly Mike's technique improving.

I'm primed to dislike the vocal sections of Looking for the Light; that's the song whose lyrics I take strongest umbrage at. But it absolutely is a strong performance by Mike.

[kirksnosehair]

I stopped paying attention to Neal Morse's lyrics about a decade ago, it's done wonders for my enjoyment of his solo music and the last couple of TA albums to a lesser extent.

[bluefox4000]

Neal's lyrics mean zero to me so it never bothered me.  i'm not one of those guys who are like you can't talk your religion around me.  you can absolutely......it's just not gonna affect me either way.  So Neal's lyrics zip by me.

[gzarruk]

I'm on Solitude right now tho. Neal has just come in on vocals. I'm no believer but thanked God for that. Pete's vocal on this one is a wincer... 

 

[KevShmev]

Pete singing on this album reminds me of Tarantino acting in some of his films.  Many say Tarantino's acting is terrible and dings the overall quality of the film, just like many (not just here) are saying that Pete's vocals on this are the one hair in the soup, but, hey, that's art for ya. You throw stuff against a wall, some of which sticks, and some of which does not, right?  Five albums in, I am really not gonna quibble too much (anymore) about the band finally having a couple of tracks that are skippable because of some bad vocals. Their track record is still pretty damn strong overall.

[The Letter M]

Honestly, it's probably the best way to listen to the album, especially if you like RFTS over HLAW, and TNMS over SHSL, which are the two biggest differences between Forevermore and the Ultimate Mix (aside from including the TBOL-only song CYFI). If you get the BD and are able to rip it, it's an optimal choice for portable listening. I even made an edit of my WAVs that includes the ending of "The World We Used To Know" and the opening of "The Sun Comes Up Today" to create a 2CD-r version of the Ultimate Mix if I don't have my phone or iPod, or just want to keep the CDs in a player for awhile.

-Marc.

Alright, I'm completely sold. I need to make ripping this Blu-Ray a priority. I very specifically prefer RFTS and TNMS over their Forevermore equivalents, really like Can You Feel It, and otherwise want all the Forevermore content. And it's a great bonus to hear that there's stuff from TBOL on the Overture and The Greatest Story.

Interesting that you pick "Take Now My Soul" over "Swing High, Swing Low"  - do you like Mike's vocals on that second verse? I feel like that verse will age poorly as we move away from the pandemic in the years to come (which is how I feel about some of the "new" lyrics on TBOL). At least the slightly political lyrics by Roine on Forevermore are vague enough that they may be about any number of political figures and situations in the years and decades to come. Going back to Roine's Wall Street Voodoo, released in 2005, and most of those lyrics are still (frighteningly) relevant over 15 years later.

I guess you could view Mike's verse in TNMS as a more metaphorical isolation and loneliness, but as we live in the pandemic, it definitely feels like Neal is writing about lockdown and quarantine specifically (which is a thing I've noticed about a lot of Neal's lyrics - you can read them any number of ways, but you definitely know what he actually means by them).

-Marc.

[425]

I'll admit I could still come around on Swing High, Swing Low. But I do think I like the lyrics better on Take Now My Soul. It's kind of a poignant look at a more concrete, real-life scenario, while Swing High, Swing Low feels a little vague (which isn't inherently bad, but here the more specific lyrics are good). And I like the flow of some of the lines in TNMS better, including the title line and "all the bootstrap people fled in tears."

I'll add that while topical lyrics often tend to age poorly (e.g. DT's The Great Debate), I sort of doubt that's as likely to be the case with songs about COVID-19. This is such a major and often traumatic event in the lives of everyone living through this period that it's not just going to fade into hazy memory within a few years the way a song criticizing a particular public figure or discussing a specific political controversy from the early 2000s might. Now, if someone did a song talking in weirdly specific terms about COVID-19, like with specific references to Anthony Fauci and New York nursing homes and AstraZeneca vaccines or something, then those could age poorly because people are going to forget the specific references. But a song like Take Now My Soul, which is devoid of overly specific references and focused instead on the experience of living through this time, is going to age just fine, in my opinion.

I compare it to songs about 9/11. That was a traumatic event in the lives of most people who were alive and old enough to be aware of it. A lot of songs came out of it, and I guess some of them may not have aged so well (probably any that made very specific references to concrete events that happened in the months right after it), but I think most of them did. To take the one we all know, I think Sacrificed Sons aged just fine. It focuses on the experience of witnessing that event and the big-picture soul-searching a lot of people probably did in the aftermath. It's even to the point where I can connect with that song in a very serious way even though (and I'm revealing my youth here and probably making a lot of people feel old) I was too young to really get what was going when 9/11 happened (I was aware of it in the sense that I was loosely aware that "some bad guys flew airplanes into buildings" and that a lot of people were killed and a lot of people were scared, but I was way too young—and fortunately not directly enough affected—to really feel the significance and impact of it).

Edit: To be clear, I'm not trying to make a direct comparison between these two events in terms of the level of badness. Don't want to debate that. Just that both caused significant trauma to a lot of people, probably the majority of people in certain countries, and had major impacts on the lives of most people in those countries over a long period of time.

(By the way, Marc, thanks for the PM you sent me. I couldn't respond directly because your inbox is full.)

[ariich]

I agree with all of that 425. The lyrics are not going to lose their relevance.

I also prefer Take Now My Soul. I like Mike's verse, plus I just prefer the phrasing of the chorus - it feels more poetic and engaging to me, whereas "swing high swing low" feels kind of corny and awkward. Not saying it is objectively the case, just how they sound to me.

[425]

Poetic and engaging versus corny and awkward is a good way of putting how I feel about it, too. I'd also say the flow of ideas is more logical. If he's asking God get him through to tomorrow, it makes sense to also ask Him to take now his soul. Asking Him to swing high, swing low doesn't make as much sense to me. I listened to Breath of Life first, so when I first listened to Swing High, Swing Low, I expected the second line of the chorus to be different.

[Mladen]

I also like Take now my soul better than Swing high, swing low. The lyrics do feel a bit generic at this point in time, though, but five years from now, they will have depth.

[Evermind]

I also prefer Take Now My Soul. I like Mike's verse, plus I just prefer the phrasing of the chorus - it feels more poetic and engaging to me, whereas "swing high swing low" feels kind of corny and awkward. Not saying it is objectively the case, just how they sound to me.

I'm the opposite of this, and I would use describe the chorus of Take Now My Soul using exactly the same words, corny and awkward. It's really a good thing they released two versions of this.

[KevShmev]

I hadn't listened to Take Now My Soul since I first got the album (since my ultimate edition I made has Swing High, Swing Low), so I gave it a fresh whirl and was shocked at how awkward it sounded.  Neal's verse (the first one) sounds clunky and odd, and Portnoy's isn't much better; the lyrics just don't flow well melodically.  Crazy how Neal made Heart Like a Whirlwind significantly better with Reaching for the Sky, and then did the exact opposite for that one. 

[HOF]

I hadn't listened to Take Now My Soul since I first got the album (since my ultimate edition I made has Swing High, Swing Low), so I gave it a fresh whirl and was shocked at how awkward it sounded.  Neal's verse (the first one) sounds clunky and odd, and Portnoy's isn't much better; the lyrics just don't flow well melodically.  Crazy how Neal made Heart Like a Whirlwind significantly better with Reaching for the Sky, and then did the exact opposite for that one.

Yeah, I find the COVID-centered lyrics a bit too on the nose. I’m a little worried we’re going to be inundated with these sorts of references in new music for the next year or so. I do think “Take now my soul” is a little bit better line than “swing high, swing low” though. Not sure what is swinging high or low (the reference seems to be to “Swing Low Sweet Chariot” I guess).

[Ben_Jamin]

I hadn't listened to Take Now My Soul since I first got the album (since my ultimate edition I made has Swing High, Swing Low), so I gave it a fresh whirl and was shocked at how awkward it sounded.  Neal's verse (the first one) sounds clunky and odd, and Portnoy's isn't much better; the lyrics just don't flow well melodically.  Crazy how Neal made Heart Like a Whirlwind significantly better with Reaching for the Sky, and then did the exact opposite for that one.

Yeah, I find the COVID-centered lyrics a bit too on the nose. I’m a little worried we’re going to be inundated with these sorts of references in new music for the next year or so. I do think “Take now my soul” is a little bit better line than “swing high, swing low” though. Not sure what is swinging high or low (the reference seems to be to “Swing Low Sweet Chariot” I guess).

I don't mind that at all. Because they're artists and the music reflects the artists. Many were affected in different ways and this will inspire a lot of interesting music.

It'll remind me of the music of the 60's after WWII ended. Or the rise of Hip-Hop, due to the struggles in the streets.

I prefer Swing High, Swing Low and those lyrics better. I feel they describe this desperation better here. And it's better with the lyrics of "Where were you when I was losing everything?" and whether you swing high or low at the ball, the hope is it'll at least just get you through the day and onto tomorrow so you can go safely home.

I think it could be about their European tour and how they were there when the pandemic became world-wide and they were hoping to get home safely, and Neal being the lyricist chose to use "please help me lord I'm coming home" to represent how he was in prayer so he can get home to his family.

That 3 run section of Swing High, Swing Low - Rainbow Sky have some great lyrics. Actually this album has great lyrics, that is the Forevermore version does to me.

[HOF]

So the one spot that I really love on Forevermore that Neal axed on TBOL is the part in Heart Like a Whirlwind where they hit that vocal harmony on “like a window to another woooorld.” That’s one of the best vocal moments on the whole album.

Just listened to the first disc of Forevermore again. It’s such an easy and rewarding listen. I kind of just wish they had stopped there and then if Neal still wanted to do his thing with TBOL, pretty much everything good that’s on disc 2 is covered and/or improved on TBOL (maybe throw Lonesome Rebel onto disc 1).

[KevShmev]

I hadn't listened to Take Now My Soul since I first got the album (since my ultimate edition I made has Swing High, Swing Low), so I gave it a fresh whirl and was shocked at how awkward it sounded.  Neal's verse (the first one) sounds clunky and odd, and Portnoy's isn't much better; the lyrics just don't flow well melodically.  Crazy how Neal made Heart Like a Whirlwind significantly better with Reaching for the Sky, and then did the exact opposite for that one.

Yeah, I find the COVID-centered lyrics a bit too on the nose. I’m a little worried we’re going to be inundated with these sorts of references in new music for the next year or so. I do think “Take now my soul” is a little bit better line than “swing high, swing low” though. Not sure what is swinging high or low (the reference seems to be to “Swing Low Sweet Chariot” I guess).

I don't mean the lyrics themselves are not good (not sure, haven't paid enough attention to them), I just mean, the wording of them do not seem to flow well in Take Now My Soul. Same deal with the verses in Heart Like a Whirlwind. The lyrics in the verses of Reaching for the Sky simply flow a lot better melodically, IMO.

[kirksnosehair]

Every album's lyrics are a snapshot in time.

[Ben_Jamin]

I hadn't listened to Take Now My Soul since I first got the album (since my ultimate edition I made has Swing High, Swing Low), so I gave it a fresh whirl and was shocked at how awkward it sounded.  Neal's verse (the first one) sounds clunky and odd, and Portnoy's isn't much better; the lyrics just don't flow well melodically.  Crazy how Neal made Heart Like a Whirlwind significantly better with Reaching for the Sky, and then did the exact opposite for that one.

Yeah, I find the COVID-centered lyrics a bit too on the nose. I’m a little worried we’re going to be inundated with these sorts of references in new music for the next year or so. I do think “Take now my soul” is a little bit better line than “swing high, swing low” though. Not sure what is swinging high or low (the reference seems to be to “Swing Low Sweet Chariot” I guess).

I don't mean the lyrics themselves are not good (not sure, haven't paid enough attention to them), I just mean, the wording of them do not seem to flow well in Take Now My Soul. Same deal with the verses in Heart Like a Whirlwind. The lyrics in the verses of Reaching for the Sky simply flow a lot better melodically, IMO.

What if he just sings this live...

"Swing high, swing low
Just get me through to tomorrow
Take now my soul
Carry me through, lord I'm coming home"

I actually prefer the word flow of "Swing High, Swing Low" but I like the words used of "Take Now My Soul" and I wouldn't have minded if they did this instead. And now I wish they did this instead.