Transatlantic Official Thread

[bluefox4000]

It certainly wouldn't surprise me if Roine were to get upset.  not saying he is........but if it were me and i heard Kaleidoscope in particular i'd been a tad miffed.  cause that was the album where i thought this is just NEAL.....and to a lesser extent Mike doing their Mike/Neal twin magic lol.  i still hear that to this day.  it's of the things that relaxed me about Forevermore.......i heard more than 2 members influences. TBOL is Neal again really.

now i still love this band but interesting point that i could see being true.

[darkshade]

I have listened only to the Forevermore version of the album since the release day, maybe listened to the whole thing 15 times. I wanted to be familiar with it before I listened to TBOL. I went for a walk yesterday and started listening to TBOL for the first time and my initial thought was that Neal did everything he could to remove Roine from this album. Not sure if these guys are on unstable terms but if I was Roine I would be pretty pissed. I have to admit that I didn't listen to the whole thing but what I listened to just didn't seem right. Like it was off a bit. I will listen to the rest eventually.

I honestly don't like 2 (or even 3) versions of the same album being released. It makes me feel like all is not OK inside the band and nobody wanted to budge on their vision so they just released it 3 different ways. I think Neal should have released his version as maybe an Inner Circle release.

I haven't gone back and read the interviews since the album's release, but I have seen chatter in a few places online where some think Roine's annoyance was more than obvious in some of the pre-release interviews. I likely didn't pick up on it cause I hadn't heard the album yet (other than a listen or two of each of the three early "singles"), but it doesn't surprise me that that is what some are hearing.  Even with the contributions by the others being there in a big way on albums 2,3 and 4, I think each album comes off as still leaning more towards Neal Morse's style than anyone else's, and then with Forevermore, Roine was probably thinking, "hey, finally a Transatlantic album where I got to kind of take the lead and let my style be more of the driving force," and Neal said, "Nope, I am gonna redo it and take out a bunch of your stuff and make it more my style like usual."  Now, I doubt Neal actually said or thought that, but it sure does come off that way. And anyone who knows me knows that I am a HUGE Neal Morse fan, and will continue to be one regardless of how this played out, but if Roine does have a bad taste in his mouth because of this, it is 100% justified, IMO.

I agree with much of what you said. The whole thing comes off as a power struggle between two great prog rock composers. I also think the 3rd, Ultimate, version exists because Neal decided to make his version, so MP came in as referee sort of, and gave us the 3rd version, makes it seem less like a battle of who's version is better. I'm sure they didn't have big fights or long, hard arguments about it, as the decision to cut the music down was also supported by Pete as well, and everyone in the band is generally respectful to one another from what I've seen, so it was really two vs two, not one vs one.

Roine also mentioned that he wanted to have a stronger presence on the new album, put a little more of his touch on the music compared to past releases. I think he did that with Forevermore. It would help explain his (not so) subtle displeasure at the fact that the album got split into multiple versions and that the audience isn't focused on the one release, Forevermore. After digesting both versions, I definitely feel like Neal should have left it alone, or pushed for the original album cut to be trimmed down 10 minutes to fit on one CD, since I feel Neal cut out too much good material out for TBOL, and defintiely cut out much of Roine's contributions to the music, making it more like a Neal and Friends album. At the same time, I can also see how that would make TAU resemble TW too much in album structure and flow perhaps. So yea, Neal should have left it alone or pushed for trimming the original. If there is ever a 6th TA album, I hope they do not do something like this again.

[Ben_Jamin]

The Darkness in the Light has such awesome verses. The kind of phrasing that you'd only hear from Roine. The silver lining of having less of him on The Breath of Life is that The Darkness in the Light makes for an awesome first lead vocal for him.

I agree that the last part you mentioned there does make for a great dynamic, but the Forevermore version of Higher Than the Morning is like 991 times better than the BOL one.  It is an utter travesty what was done to the song on the abridged version. 

I agree with you here, and it's why I put the Forevermore version in my choose your own adventure mix.

It certainly wouldn't surprise me if Roine were to get upset.  not saying he is........but if it were me and i heard Kaleidoscope in particular i'd been a tad miffed.  cause that was the album where i thought this is just NEAL.....and to a lesser extent Mike doing their Mike/Neal twin magic lol.  i still hear that to this day.  it's of the things that relaxed me about Forevermore.......i heard more than 2 members influences. TBOL is Neal again really.

now i still love this band but interesting point that i could see being true.

This is my main problem with Kaleidoscope. I don't really enjoy Shine, Beyond The Sun, or much of the album because it sounds too much like a Neal/MP project, more so than a collaboration of all 4 musicians. The best song on that album is Black As The Sky.

Forevermore, is my go to version of the album if I want to listen to it as a whole. There are some parts from both versions I really like.

I could see why Roine would be a bit...agitated. I would be too, if someone just decided to take it upon themselves and make newer versions of the songs. And Roine, being a Swede, isn't one that would do much but be humble about it.

It's even funnier when you get The Ultimate Edition, as that is MP's version of the album because he enjoyed things from both versions, so took it upon himself to make a mix combining both, and releasing it as a Blu-Ray. 

I don't think I'd want to by a blu-ray just to hear his mix of the album. I may buy it later, or hear it sometime if it does become available.

[bluefox4000]

The Darkness in the Light has such awesome verses. The kind of phrasing that you'd only hear from Roine. The silver lining of having less of him on The Breath of Life is that The Darkness in the Light makes for an awesome first lead vocal for him.

I agree that the last part you mentioned there does make for a great dynamic, but the Forevermore version of Higher Than the Morning is like 991 times better than the BOL one.  It is an utter travesty what was done to the song on the abridged version. 

I agree with you here, and it's why I put the Forevermore version in my choose your own adventure mix.

It certainly wouldn't surprise me if Roine were to get upset.  not saying he is........but if it were me and i heard Kaleidoscope in particular i'd been a tad miffed.  cause that was the album where i thought this is just NEAL.....and to a lesser extent Mike doing their Mike/Neal twin magic lol.  i still hear that to this day.  it's of the things that relaxed me about Forevermore.......i heard more than 2 members influences. TBOL is Neal again really.

now i still love this band but interesting point that i could see being true.

This is my main problem with Kaleidoscope. I don't really enjoy Shine, Beyond The Sun, or much of the album because it sounds too much like a Neal/MP project, more so than a collaboration of all 4 musicians. The best song on that album is Black As The Sky.

Forevermore, is my go to version of the album if I want to listen to it as a whole. There are some parts from both versions I really like.

I could see why Roine would be a bit...agitated. I would be too, if someone just decided to take it upon themselves and make newer versions of the songs. And Roine, being a Swede, isn't one that would do much but be humble about it.

It's even funnier when you get The Ultimate Edition, as that is MP's version of the album because he enjoyed things from both versions, so took it upon himself to make a mix combining both, and releasing it as a Blu-Ray. 

I don't think I'd want to by a blu-ray just to hear his mix of the album. I may buy it later, or hear it sometime if it does become available.

Yea i'm honestly not going to buy blu ray unless it's a concert.  i'll  get portnoy's ultimate if it ever get's a CD or an audio download release

i agree there

[darkshade]

I got the Blu-ray but I'm going to try to figure out how to get the audio onto my ipod.
I really wish the Ultimate Version had a regular CD release.

[bluefox4000]

I got the Blu-ray but I'm going to try to figure out how to get the audio onto my ipod.
I really wish the Ultimate Version had a regular CD release.

me too......me too.  i'm a raging completion-ist  lol.  but i really don't want to pop in a bluray just for an audio file.

[Ben_Jamin]

I have listened only to the Forevermore version of the album since the release day, maybe listened to the whole thing 15 times. I wanted to be familiar with it before I listened to TBOL. I went for a walk yesterday and started listening to TBOL for the first time and my initial thought was that Neal did everything he could to remove Roine from this album. Not sure if these guys are on unstable terms but if I was Roine I would be pretty pissed. I have to admit that I didn't listen to the whole thing but what I listened to just didn't seem right. Like it was off a bit. I will listen to the rest eventually.

I honestly don't like 2 (or even 3) versions of the same album being released. It makes me feel like all is not OK inside the band and nobody wanted to budge on their vision so they just released it 3 different ways. I think Neal should have released his version as maybe an Inner Circle release.

I haven't gone back and read the interviews since the album's release, but I have seen chatter in a few places online where some think Roine's annoyance was more than obvious in some of the pre-release interviews. I likely didn't pick up on it cause I hadn't heard the album yet (other than a listen or two of each of the three early "singles"), but it doesn't surprise me that that is what some are hearing.  Even with the contributions by the others being there in a big way on albums 2,3 and 4, I think each album comes off as still leaning more towards Neal Morse's style than anyone else's, and then with Forevermore, Roine was probably thinking, "hey, finally a Transatlantic album where I got to kind of take the lead and let my style be more of the driving force," and Neal said, "Nope, I am gonna redo it and take out a bunch of your stuff and make it more my style like usual."  Now, I doubt Neal actually said or thought that, but it sure does come off that way. And anyone who knows me knows that I am a HUGE Neal Morse fan, and will continue to be one regardless of how this played out, but if Roine does have a bad taste in his mouth because of this, it is 100% justified, IMO.

I agree with much of what you said. The whole thing comes off as a power struggle between two great prog rock composers. I also think the 3rd, Ultimate, version exists because Neal decided to make his version, so MP came in as referee sort of, and gave us the 3rd version, makes it seem less like a battle of who's version is better. I'm sure they didn't have big fights or long, hard arguments about it, as the decision to cut the music down was also supported by Pete as well, and everyone in the band is generally respectful to one another from what I've seen, so it was really two vs two, not one vs one.

Roine also mentioned that he wanted to have a stronger presence on the new album, put a little more of his touch on the music compared to past releases. I think he did that with Forevermore. It would help explain his (not so) subtle displeasure at the fact that the album got split into multiple versions and that the audience isn't focused on the one release, Forevermore. After digesting both versions, I definitely feel like Neal should have left it alone, or pushed for the original album cut to be trimmed down 10 minutes to fit on one CD, since I feel Neal cut out too much good material out for TBOL, and defintiely cut out much of Roine's contributions to the music, making it more like a Neal and Friends album. At the same time, I can also see how that would make TAU resemble TW too much in album structure and flow perhaps. So yea, Neal should have left it alone or pushed for trimming the original. If there is ever a 6th TA album, I hope they do not do something like this again.

One way would've been to trim that "Better to belong" theme. It's a really catchy melody, but it feels like it's in almost every song. It even has an Acapella section dedicated to it 

There are some sections where they could've trimmed it down. I would've relegated Rainbow Sky to a bonus disc, even though I like the song, it's the outlier of the album.

[KevShmev]

Even with the contributions by the others being there in a big way on albums 2,3 and 4, I think each album comes off as still leaning more towards Neal Morse's style than anyone else's, and then with Forevermore, Roine was probably thinking, "hey, finally a Transatlantic album where I got to kind of take the lead and let my style be more of the driving force," and Neal said, "Nope, I am gonna redo it and take out a bunch of your stuff and make it more my style like usual."  Now, I doubt Neal actually said or thought that, but it sure does come off that way. And anyone who knows me knows that I am a HUGE Neal Morse fan, and will continue to be one regardless of how this played out, but if Roine does have a bad taste in his mouth because of this, it is 100% justified, IMO.

I certainly hope there's nothing to this, and I think it's hard to speculate about exactly what went on or even who wrote what parts, but it does seem plausible just looking at what was taken out between the different versions. I think it's also plausible, though, that Neal didn't do it as an intentional slight.

It's kind of surprising to me on one level that this band has gone so well for so long with three members who definitely like to be in charge. I wonder if Roine has ended up being somewhat outvoted in general with Mike and Neal maybe coming to see things eye-to-eye more and more the more they work together. I remember getting the impression from one of the Kaleidoscope interviews that The Letter M shared a few pages ago that Roine wasn't happy with all the choices on that album, but he more or less accepted it as a consequence of collaboration. I recall him saying that he didn't even want Beyond the Sun on the album at all, and didn't play on the song, but got outvoted. Which, hey, maybe he's fine with it. I don't know a lot about what kind of person he is, but maybe he's willing to accept compromises with Neal and Mike in TA, knowing that he can write music where he's more in charge with TFK.

To clarify, I don't think Neal did anything as an intentional slight at Roine.   That doesn't seem like his style.  It just feels like that once he started tweaking it on its own, he wanted to put more of his own stamp on it, not because of an ego "it needs more ME" attitude, but because he felt those changes were for the best.  It's just unfortunate that some of the changes came at the expense of Roine's contributions, Higher Than the Morning being the most glaring example given that the Neal's version has him singing the song instead of Roine, a lot of Roine's cool guitar work during the 2nd chorus was removed, and the guitar solo was removed altogether (even more bizarrely, for a smaller instrumental section that feel shoehorned in). 

[ytserush]

Regarding the band performing it live, I see two possibilities:
-They find a way to finally do a Transatlantic Weekend for Morsefest 2021, especially since Neal and/or Mike had originally intended for the band to perform at last year's Morsefest, which would have presumably been just the Forevermore-version of TAU. If they do two concerts for Transatlantic, there's a chance they could perform BOTH Forevermore and TBOL live, one each night, with different second sets. Do Forevermore on Night 1, and play about 60-80 minutes of music from their first two albums, then on Night 2, play all of The Breath Of Life, then come back with most of The Whirlwind and a song or two from Kaleidoscope. It'd be a LOT Of music to learn, but given that it'd be the first (and maybe ever ONLY) Morsefest with Transatlantic, why not play as much as possible?
-OR...they gear up to play the Ultimate Mix on the Cruise To The Edge (are they yet listed as being a part of CTTE 2022?), and maybe try to launch a tour following that performance. If they tour on it, I don't think they'll switch up or alternate the versions of the albums. They might do a song-swap from night to night, like doing "Swing High Swing Low" or "Take Now My Soul", since the music is mostly the same, just the lyrics/vocalists need to change, but if they're going for a long tour, they may want consistency on a nightly basis. Doing a one-off two-night weekend like Morsefest might give them a better reason to do both Forevermore and TBOL, but as I said, that is a lot of music to learn for one weekend, especially for Roine and Pete, who probably aren't used to doing that like Neal and Mike have done for the last 7 years (6 for Mike).


-Marc.

Sounds reasonable.

I'm still listening To Forevermore and liking it a lot. Haven't pulled out either of the other two yet, but I can see that happening soon as I think I'm getting familiar enough with it now.

[ytserush]

The Darkness in the Light has such awesome verses. The kind of phrasing that you'd only hear from Roine. The silver lining of having less of him on The Breath of Life is that The Darkness in the Light makes for an awesome first lead vocal for him.

That's a favorite of mine too (on Forevermore.)

[ytserush]

I have listened only to the Forevermore version of the album since the release day, maybe listened to the whole thing 15 times. I wanted to be familiar with it before I listened to TBOL. I went for a walk yesterday and started listening to TBOL for the first time and my initial thought was that Neal did everything he could to remove Roine from this album. Not sure if these guys are on unstable terms but if I was Roine I would be pretty pissed. I have to admit that I didn't listen to the whole thing but what I listened to just didn't seem right. Like it was off a bit. I will listen to the rest eventually.

I honestly don't like 2 (or even 3) versions of the same album being released. It makes me feel like all is not OK inside the band and nobody wanted to budge on their vision so they just released it 3 different ways. I think Neal should have released his version as maybe an Inner Circle release.

Wow.  Looks like I have an interesting listen ahead of me when I get to it.

[425]

To clarify, I don't think Neal did anything as an intentional slight at Roine.   That doesn't seem like his style.  It just feels like that once he started tweaking it on its own, he wanted to put more of his own stamp on it, not because of an ego "it needs more ME" attitude, but because he felt those changes were for the best.

I agree with this. I have to imagine that for someone with as many ideas as Neal seems to have, it can be hard to know when to hold back on implementing them to avoid crowding others out. Especially since in this case he seemed to basically be the only one working on this version.

[KevShmev]

To clarify, I don't think Neal did anything as an intentional slight at Roine.   That doesn't seem like his style.  It just feels like that once he started tweaking it on its own, he wanted to put more of his own stamp on it, not because of an ego "it needs more ME" attitude, but because he felt those changes were for the best.

I agree with this. I have to imagine that for someone with as many ideas as Neal seems to have, it can be hard to know when to hold back on implementing them to avoid crowding others out. Especially since in this case he seemed to basically be the only one working on this version.

Yeah. I revisited the below interview (which is presented as one with both Neal and Roine, but they were done separately as they were asked and both answered the same questions), and it looks like once the decision was made to release two albums, Roine was given creative control over the long version and Neal was given creative control over the abridged version.  I remember Portnoy saying that Neal was gracious enough to give him the second verse in Take Now My Soul to sing, and I can't help but think Neal was playing the long game with that gesture.

https://www.sonicperspectives.com/interviews/interview-with-neal-morse-roine-stolt/

[Peter Mc]

Neal seems to be getting a lot of stick here but, from all accounts, it was Pete who initially raised an issue with the album being too long and that people wouldn’t want to sit through 90 min of music.  Neal agreed and yes, he then took control over of the shorter version.  I suppose if you’re going to trim things down, you will trim the guitar noodling of Roine as no one else is taking solos on the album.  I know he has cut some of Roine’s vocal moments too but he has also cut some of his own stuff.

As an outsider, I’ve always felt that there was a little bit of tension between Neal and Roine as both are used to being the main writer in their own bands and are probably reluctant to compromise on things.  In this case, they obviously said to Roine, you control the longer version and Neal can then control the shorter version as a bit of a compromise.

I’m a bit in the middle in that I much prefer the Forevermore album with the extended guitar solos but I also agree that it’s too long and there is some subpar songs (imo) that don’t need to be there which stops this from being on the level of the first 3 albums.  I would therefore have the Forevermore album but it would be more like 70 min and would fit on one disk rather than cutting it right down to 60 min like Neal did.  I think maybe an outside producer would have been able to do this and create one single disk great album instead of two different good albums when the band can’t make a decision.

[hefdaddy42]

Finally received my copies 

[kirksnosehair]

I might be the only one here who thinks this, but I DO NOT think Forevermore is too long at all.  In fact, whenever I listen to it I marvel at how quickly the entire album actually goes by.  I usually listen at the gym and I work out for 2 hours in the morning 6 days a week so I get plenty of listening time.  I've listened to both albums at least 10 times now.  I enjoy both of them quite a bit but I am pretty strongly partial to the longer version.  Roine's guitar playing is one of the main attractions for me as a guitar player so I tend to listen to Forevermore when I put this one on.  And it has never felt like it was wearing out its welcome. 

[Kram]

I might be the only one here who thinks this, but I DO NOT think Forevermore is too long at all.  In fact, whenever I listen to it I marvel at how quickly the entire album actually goes by.  I usually listen at the gym and I work out for 2 hours in the morning 6 days a week so I get plenty of listening time.  I've listened to both albums at least 10 times now.  I enjoy both of them quite a bit but I am pretty strongly partial to the longer version.  Roine's guitar playing is one of the main attractions for me as a guitar player so I tend to listen to Forevermore when I put this one on.  And it has never felt like it was wearing out its welcome.

No, you're not the only one.  I have no issue with the length of Forevermore. 

[Ben_Jamin]

I might be the only one here who thinks this, but I DO NOT think Forevermore is too long at all.  In fact, whenever I listen to it I marvel at how quickly the entire album actually goes by.  I usually listen at the gym and I work out for 2 hours in the morning 6 days a week so I get plenty of listening time.  I've listened to both albums at least 10 times now.  I enjoy both of them quite a bit but I am pretty strongly partial to the longer version.  Roine's guitar playing is one of the main attractions for me as a guitar player so I tend to listen to Forevermore when I put this one on.  And it has never felt like it was wearing out its welcome.

No, you're not the only one.  I have no issue with the length of Forevermore.

Me either. I don't mind the length at all actually. And I like Rainbow Sky...

[kirksnosehair]

I mean, I get why some people may not like a 90 minute album.  It's a LOT to digest.  But if you're going to make a double album, have strong enough material to pull it off.  Some albums, like Forevermore, have the material to pull it off.  I really don't skip any songs when I listen to it for me that's very, very rare for a double album.  Other albums, (I'm looking at you, Snow) kind kind of drag at times and/or there are tracks that I can take or leave or that don't seem to fit.  Snow is a good example of this.  Great album, I rarely skip anything when I listen to it, except sometimes when I get to disc 2 I skip "Carrie" and "Looking for Answers" because they feel to me like they were shoehorned in there to fill out an album that was too long to be a single but too short to be a double.  Now I have no way of knowing that for sure, but I DO know that NDV wrote "Looking for Answers" quite a while before Snow was ever made.

[Peter Mc]

I also like all the Roine guitar stuff and I like Rainbow Sky too.  I don’t necessarily think it’s too long in terms of it dragging, I just think there’s some songs that are not very good and I understand that’s just my opinion.  If those songs were removed, it easily fits onto one disc.  My other issue, which I have already mentioned, is that Mike and Pete have too many lead vocals, again just my opinion.  A combination then of some slightly weak songs and very weak vocals (often the same song) stops this from hitting the heights of the first 3 albums for me.  Not many albums do hit those heights however so it’s no disgrace to be not quite as good as Smpte, BAF and TW.  It’s still a very good album.

[HOF]

I also like all the Roine guitar stuff and I like Rainbow Sky too.  I don’t necessarily think it’s too long in terms of it dragging, I just think there’s some songs that are not very good and I understand that’s just my opinion.  If those songs were removed, it easily fits onto one disc.  My other issue, which I have already mentioned, is that Mike and Pete have too many lead vocals, again just my opinion.  A combination then of some slightly weak songs and very weak vocals (often the same song) stops this from hitting the heights of the first 3 albums for me.  Not many albums do hit those heights however so it’s no disgrace to be not quite as good as Smpte, BAF and TW.  It’s still a very good album.

I may be alone in this, but I think Mike’s vocals sound great. He’s as strong a vocalist as Roine probably (who I love, just saying).

[KevShmev]

I may be alone in this, but I think Mike’s vocals sound great. He’s as strong a vocalist as Roine probably (who I love, just saying).

Woah, hot take alert!!

I do think Portnoy's vocals have improved over the years, but he could never carry an entire album like Roine, who obviously is no Brad Delp or Freddie Mercury, has in the past.

[Peter Mc]

I’m sure you’re not alone in enjoying Mike’s vocals on the album, I don’t but I’m happy for those who do.  Roine is not a powerhouse vocalist but he still sounds like a singer to me, there’s just a whimsical laid back musicality to his voice.  Portnoy is in tune but that’s all I can say for his voice, there’s no subtlety or musicality for me.  I actually don’t mind him doing more aggressive stuff (I like the call and response stuff between him and JLB in Constant Motion for example).  I just don’t find his voice strong enough or interesting enough to carry a whole song (yes, Looking For The Light is one of the songs I would cut) or even a whole verse of a song, I think his verse in Reaching For The Sky brings that song down a notch as well.

I just think you have two full time professional singers in the band so why are you giving so many lead vocals to two amateur singers, especially people with no real talent in that regard?  Give them the odd line here and there like they did in Black As The Sky but not entire verses or choruses and certainly not entire songs.

[Kram]

I also like all the Roine guitar stuff and I like Rainbow Sky too.  I don’t necessarily think it’s too long in terms of it dragging, I just think there’s some songs that are not very good and I understand that’s just my opinion.  If those songs were removed, it easily fits onto one disc.  My other issue, which I have already mentioned, is that Mike and Pete have too many lead vocals, again just my opinion.  A combination then of some slightly weak songs and very weak vocals (often the same song) stops this from hitting the heights of the first 3 albums for me.  Not many albums do hit those heights however so it’s no disgrace to be not quite as good as Smpte, BAF and TW.  It’s still a very good album.

I may be alone in this, but I think Mike’s vocals sound great. He’s as strong a vocalist as Roine probably (who I love, just saying).

I wouldn't go that far LOL ....but it's the best I've ever heard Mike for sure.  He has improved a lot from his DT days.

[HOF]

I may be alone in this, but I think Mike’s vocals sound great. He’s as strong a vocalist as Roine probably (who I love, just saying).

Woah, hot take alert!!

I do think Portnoy's vocals have improved over the years, but he could never carry an entire album like Roine, who obviously is no Brad Delp or Freddie Mercury, has in the past.

To be clear, I’m more talking about 2020 Roine. I think he has a wonderfully evocative voice in general, and he’s certainly more adept at making his voice an instrument than Mike is. But I’m really impressed with the strength in Mike’s lead parts on this one. Maybe he’s using some effects or multitracking to get it done, but he not only carries his melodies well, he has more emotion and effectation than he used to. I think it people didn’t already think of him as Portnoy they wouldn’t mind his vocals on this so much.

[HOF]

I’m sure you’re not alone in enjoying Mike’s vocals on the album, I don’t but I’m happy for those who do.  Roine is not a powerhouse vocalist but he still sounds like a singer to me, there’s just a whimsical laid back musicality to his voice.  Portnoy is in tune but that’s all I can say for his voice, there’s no subtlety or musicality for me.  I actually don’t mind him doing more aggressive stuff (I like the call and response stuff between him and JLB in Constant Motion for example).  I just don’t find his voice strong enough or interesting enough to carry a whole song (yes, Looking For The Light is one of the songs I would cut) or even a whole verse of a song, I think his verse in Reaching For The Sky brings that song down a notch as well.

I just think you have two full time professional singers in the band so why are you giving so many lead vocals to two amateur singers, especially people with no real talent in that regard?  Give them the odd line here and there like they did in Black As The Sky but not entire verses or choruses and certainly not entire songs.

I just think he knocks Looking for the Light out of the park (not sure there are too many other parts. An odd line here or there). Also, Roine hasn’t sung all the vocals on his own albums since early on in TFK (maybe he did on Theory of an Alchemist?). He usually has Hasse or Gildenlowe for the more ambitious vocals in TFK since Retropolis. Again, I agree he makes it work and I think Roine is actually a little underrated as a singer. But he doesn’t have a strong voice these days. 

[KevShmev]

To be clear, I’m more talking about 2020 Roine. I think he has a wonderfully evocative voice in general, and he’s certainly more adept at making his voice an instrument than Mike is. But I’m really impressed with the strength in Mike’s lead parts on this one. Maybe he’s using some effects or multitracking to get it done, but he not only carries his melodies well, he has more emotion and effectation than he used to. I think it people didn’t already think of him as Portnoy they wouldn’t mind his vocals on this so much.

I haven't seen much criticism of Portnoy's vocals on this record; I have no issues with them.  Trewavas' vocals are the ones taking the body blows, and for good reason.  It's hard to believe that someone didn't listen to his vocals for The Sun Comes Up Today and think, "maybe he should do another take or maybe someone else should sing that one."  I know, I know, "It's the Transatlantic way for everyone to sing"...but this is what happens when you stick with it.

[HOF]

To be clear, I’m more talking about 2020 Roine. I think he has a wonderfully evocative voice in general, and he’s certainly more adept at making his voice an instrument than Mike is. But I’m really impressed with the strength in Mike’s lead parts on this one. Maybe he’s using some effects or multitracking to get it done, but he not only carries his melodies well, he has more emotion and effectation than he used to. I think it people didn’t already think of him as Portnoy they wouldn’t mind his vocals on this so much.

I haven't seen much criticism of Portnoy's vocals on this record; I have no issues with them.  Trewavas' vocals are the ones taking the body blows, and for good reason.  It's hard to believe that someone didn't listen to his vocals for The Sun Comes Up Today and think, "maybe he should do another take or maybe someone else should sing that one."  I know, I know, "It's the Transatlantic way for everyone to sing"...but this is what happens when you stick with it.

I do get the aversion to Pete’s voice. I don’t hate them, and the frail quality makes some sense on Solitude, but I can’t say I love them either.

[gzarruk]

I see the "everybody sings in TA" as a gimmick, more than an actual strenght for the band. It definitely works for harmonies and a couple lines here and there, but something like Pete's section on Kaleidoscope...

I don't know why Portnoy insists on doing leads with a lot of his bands either. I can't believe none of his bandmastes ever told him he isn't too good of a vocalist

[The Letter M]

I’m sure you’re not alone in enjoying Mike’s vocals on the album, I don’t but I’m happy for those who do.  Roine is not a powerhouse vocalist but he still sounds like a singer to me, there’s just a whimsical laid back musicality to his voice.  Portnoy is in tune but that’s all I can say for his voice, there’s no subtlety or musicality for me.  I actually don’t mind him doing more aggressive stuff (I like the call and response stuff between him and JLB in Constant Motion for example).  I just don’t find his voice strong enough or interesting enough to carry a whole song (yes, Looking For The Light is one of the songs I would cut) or even a whole verse of a song, I think his verse in Reaching For The Sky brings that song down a notch as well.

I just think you have two full time professional singers in the band so why are you giving so many lead vocals to two amateur singers, especially people with no real talent in that regard?  Give them the odd line here and there like they did in Black As The Sky but not entire verses or choruses and certainly not entire songs.

I just think he knocks Looking for the Light out of the park (not sure there are too many other parts. An odd line here or there). Also, Roine hasn’t sung all the vocals on his own albums since early on in TFK (maybe he did on Theory of an Alchemist?). He usually has Hasse or Gildenlowe for the more ambitious vocals in TFK since Retropolis. Again, I agree he makes it work and I think Roine is actually a little underrated as a singer. But he doesn’t have a strong voice these days.

According to the discogs page, Manifesto Of An Alchemist featured 5 different vocalists.

I don't think Roine has done ALL of the vocals on any album since 1996's Retropolis. Even on his last solo album in 2005, he featured Neal Morse on a few songs on the Wall Street Voodoo album.

IMO, Roine is a fine vocalist, but I like it when he has others to share the vocal duties with, like with Hasse Fröberg and Daniel Gildenlöw. On TAU, I absolutely love the vocal harmonies Roine has with Mike in "The World We Used To Know" - they just blend so well together. I cannot think of any other song or moment where those two were the sole vocalists in a song, but they nailed it in this song.

As far as the rest of TAU goes, Neal and Roine seem as strong as ever, Mike has definitely improved, and Pete's vocals here are quite a few steps up from what he had on Kaleidoscope. Everyone seems to be getting better! I think having more time to work on the album was definitely a big benefit, and of course, Rich is a master.

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

I do get the aversion to Pete’s voice. I don’t hate them, and the frail quality makes some sense on Solitude, but I can’t say I love them either.
 

In general, he is very hit or miss.  He is solid enough in the choruses of Reaching for the Sky and in the short vocal part in The Greatest Story Never Ends, and looking back he was fine in the first two choruses of Stranger in Your Soul on Bridge Across Forever, but I simply cannot abide The Sun Comes Up Today.  I don't listen to enough Marillion to know for sure, but I thought I read that he almost never sings lead vocal in that band...and there is probably a reason for that.  Not trying to pile on the guy, as he seems like a good dude and does his best I am sure, but where is the quality control? 

[425]

There's something about the tone of Pete's voice that I like. The quality of his performances is definitely uneven, and he should not be singing as many leads as Neal or Roine, but I think he's generally used well, even on this album where he's used a lot more than on previous releases (I agree that The Sun Comes Up Today is a bit rough).

I also like him a lot on Walking the Road in Kaleidoscope, and I think it was really clever to have him do the uncertain lines at the beginning of Stranger in Your Soul and then have Neal sing the confident version of the same melody at the end of the song.

[HOF]

I do get the aversion to Pete’s voice. I don’t hate them, and the frail quality makes some sense on Solitude, but I can’t say I love them either.
 

In general, he is very hit or miss.  He is solid enough in the choruses of Reaching for the Sky and in the short vocal part in The Greatest Story Never Ends, and looking back he was fine in the first two choruses of Stranger in Your Soul on Bridge Across Forever, but I simply cannot abide The Sun Comes Up Today.  I don't listen to enough Marillion to know for sure, but I thought I read that he almost never sings lead vocal in that band...and there is probably a reason for that.  Not trying to pile on the guy, as he seems like a good dude and does his best I am sure, but where is the quality control?

There is one passage on Kaleidoscope that Pete sings that I recall liking, but I can’t recall what it was off the top of my head. He was fine in snippets on the first two TA albums but those were fairly minor. For Marillion he only sings in a live settings, and that’s almost always background vocals (though I believe there was one concert he sung lead vocals after Fish left, can’t recall the reason for that). I can’t think of a prominent vocal part on a Marillion studio album. Maybe he does some BG vocals but nothing obvious.

[Nick]

Now that I've given each version a few spins I will join what I think is the majority here. Well, sort of. Not going to start digging in on any battles within the band over the versions or anything like that, and at the end of the day I'll still listen to the 5.1 Blu-Ray because it's the best way to enjoy music all else equal, imo, but that said Forevermore is the definitive version of the album to my ears. I don't know why I doubted what is one of my all time great collection of musicians with an amazing catalog, but somehow I assumed going in that the shorter more concise version would be the one I ended up liking. I think that can largely be attributed to too many longer Flower Kings releases in recent years. But at the end of the day I love pretty much every bit of Forevermore and hope that if a tour happens that's what they bring out.

[ariich]

I may be alone in this, but I think Mike’s vocals sound great. He’s as strong a vocalist as Roine probably (who I love, just saying).

Woah, hot take alert!!

I do think Portnoy's vocals have improved over the years, but he could never carry an entire album like Roine, who obviously is no Brad Delp or Freddie Mercury, has in the past.

To be clear, I’m more talking about 2020 Roine. I think he has a wonderfully evocative voice in general, and he’s certainly more adept at making his voice an instrument than Mike is. But I’m really impressed with the strength in Mike’s lead parts on this one. Maybe he’s using some effects or multitracking to get it done, but he not only carries his melodies well, he has more emotion and effectation than he used to. I think it people didn’t already think of him as Portnoy they wouldn’t mind his vocals on this so much.

I agree with all this and had the exact same thought. Mike sounds really great on this album, best he ever has.