Transatlantic Official Thread

[DoctorAction]

I agree about shorter songs in general. I think it's hard to write lyrics about something that justifies a very long track.

[HOF]

Giving The Whirlwind its first listen. So far not so bad, but it is pretty Neal Morse-ish in sound.

Edit: very Camel-ish moment around 1:50 in On The Prowl that leads to a nice little instrumental jam. I like.

Edit: A Man Can Feel has a nice underlying groove, sounds more Flower Kings-ish. Guessing it’s a Roine contribution.

[The Letter M]

Edit: A Man Can Feel has a nice underlying groove, sounds more Flower Kings-ish. Guessing it’s a Roine contribution.

You would be correct. In a DPRP interview with Roine in 2010, he says "Yes, [A Man Can Feel]'s mine. Basically if I'm singing then it's my lyrics, except for the beginning where I'm singing and that's actually Pete's."

The interviewer then states that "Evermore", "Pieces Of Heaven" and "On The Prowl" have "a strong Roine feel".

Roine replies  - "'One The Prowl' is partly Pete's and mine, but the main part is actually Neal's, 'Piece Of Heaven', 'Lay Down Your Life' - the jam bit - and 'Evermore' is all mine. 'Is It Really Happening?', that's Pete, 'The Overture' and the main themes is a mix of everyone's ideas."

The beauty of The Whirlwind is that a good chunk of the album was written in the studio. Of Neal's original 43 minute "Whirlwind Demo", only about about half of it was used in the final album, or probably a little over a quarter of the final album was originally part of Neal's demos. Pete also contributes more on TW than he has on any other album, I believe, which is why he's got such a strong presence on the Whirlwind overall.

If you ever get the chance, watch the Making Of documentary. It's easily one of my favorite in-the-studio docs featuring Neal and Mike (and this is across ALL of their albums and projects).

-Marc.

[gzarruk]

Edit: A Man Can Feel has a nice underlying groove, sounds more Flower Kings-ish. Guessing it’s a Roine contribution.

You would be correct. In a DPRP interview with Roine in 2010, he says "Yes, [A Man Can Feel]'s mine. Basically if I'm singing then it's my lyrics, except for the beginning where I'm singing and that's actually Pete's."

The interviewer then states that "Evermore", "Pieces Of Heaven" and "On The Prowl" have "a strong Roine feel".

Roine replies  - "'One The Prowl' is partly Pete's and mine, but the main part is actually Neal's, 'Piece Of Heaven', 'Lay Down Your Life' - the jam bit - and 'Evermore' is all mine. 'Is It Really Happening?', that's Pete, 'The Overture' and the main themes is a mix of everyone's ideas."

The beauty of The Whirlwind is that a good chunk of the album was written in the studio. Of Neal's original 43 minute "Whirlwind Demo", only about about half of it was used in the final album, or probably a little over a quarter of the final album was originally part of Neal's demos. Pete also contributes more on TW than he has on any other album, I believe, which is why he's got such a strong presence on the Whirlwind overall.

If you ever get the chance, watch the Making Of documentary. It's easily one of my favorite in-the-studio docs featuring Neal and Mike (and this is across ALL of their albums and projects).

-Marc.

Still their best album IMO.

[The Letter M]

Edit: A Man Can Feel has a nice underlying groove, sounds more Flower Kings-ish. Guessing it’s a Roine contribution.

You would be correct. In a DPRP interview with Roine in 2010, he says "Yes, [A Man Can Feel]'s mine. Basically if I'm singing then it's my lyrics, except for the beginning where I'm singing and that's actually Pete's."

The interviewer then states that "Evermore", "Pieces Of Heaven" and "On The Prowl" have "a strong Roine feel".

Roine replies  - "'One The Prowl' is partly Pete's and mine, but the main part is actually Neal's, 'Piece Of Heaven', 'Lay Down Your Life' - the jam bit - and 'Evermore' is all mine. 'Is It Really Happening?', that's Pete, 'The Overture' and the main themes is a mix of everyone's ideas."

The beauty of The Whirlwind is that a good chunk of the album was written in the studio. Of Neal's original 43 minute "Whirlwind Demo", only about about half of it was used in the final album, or probably a little over a quarter of the final album was originally part of Neal's demos. Pete also contributes more on TW than he has on any other album, I believe, which is why he's got such a strong presence on the Whirlwind overall.

If you ever get the chance, watch the Making Of documentary. It's easily one of my favorite in-the-studio docs featuring Neal and Mike (and this is across ALL of their albums and projects).

-Marc.

Still their best album IMO.

Hard to disagree. I always find myself going back and forth between TW and BAF as their best album. I came upon the band in 2005, only a few years after BAF, and so I listened to that one to death and back, and loved it so much that when news of a third album broke in 2009, I wasn't sure it could top it, but I fell in love with it too, so it's hard for me to really choose.

-Marc.

[HOF]

Edit: A Man Can Feel has a nice underlying groove, sounds more Flower Kings-ish. Guessing it’s a Roine contribution.

You would be correct. In a DPRP interview with Roine in 2010, he says "Yes, [A Man Can Feel]'s mine. Basically if I'm singing then it's my lyrics, except for the beginning where I'm singing and that's actually Pete's."

The interviewer then states that "Evermore", "Pieces Of Heaven" and "On The Prowl" have "a strong Roine feel".

Roine replies  - "'One The Prowl' is partly Pete's and mine, but the main part is actually Neal's, 'Piece Of Heaven', 'Lay Down Your Life' - the jam bit - and 'Evermore' is all mine. 'Is It Really Happening?', that's Pete, 'The Overture' and the main themes is a mix of everyone's ideas."

The beauty of The Whirlwind is that a good chunk of the album was written in the studio. Of Neal's original 43 minute "Whirlwind Demo", only about about half of it was used in the final album, or probably a little over a quarter of the final album was originally part of Neal's demos. Pete also contributes more on TW than he has on any other album, I believe, which is why he's got such a strong presence on the Whirlwind overall.

If you ever get the chance, watch the Making Of documentary. It's easily one of my favorite in-the-studio docs featuring Neal and Mike (and this is across ALL of their albums and projects).

-Marc.

So maybe you know this: that first guitar solo/lead section around 2:40 on Overture sounds more like Neal Morse than Roine’s work. Any idea if that’s the case?

[The Letter M]

So maybe you know this: that first guitar solo/lead section around 2:40 on Overture sounds more like Neal Morse than Roine’s work. Any idea if that’s the case?

So I went to play it and listen first, and my first thought was "Oh, it's definitely Roine" but just to be sure, I checked the Making Of Documentary to see if it showed who played that part, but no luck. They didn't show who played it during the sessions or even the overdub phase.

Then I checked the actual liner notes and Neal is credited with "Keyboards, Acoustic Guitar, Percussion, and Vocals", which, to me, says all electric guitars were strictly Roine, rhythm and solo.

-Marc.

[HOF]

So maybe you know this: that first guitar solo/lead section around 2:40 on Overture sounds more like Neal Morse than Roine’s work. Any idea if that’s the case?

So I went to play it and listen first, and my first thought was "Oh, it's definitely Roine" but just to be sure, I checked the Making Of Documentary to see if it showed who played that part, but no luck. They didn't show who played it during the sessions or even the jverdub phase.

Then I checked the actual liner notes and Neal is credited with "Keyboards, Acoustic Guitar, Percussion, and Vocals", which, to me, says all electric guitars were strictly Roine, rhythm and solo.

-Marc.

Thanks for looking app that up. I suppose if Neal demo’d that track, it’s possible Roine more or less copied whatever Neal had on the demo. Don’t know why it just struck me as sounding like Neal.

[kirksnosehair]

Edit: A Man Can Feel has a nice underlying groove, sounds more Flower Kings-ish. Guessing it’s a Roine contribution.

You would be correct. In a DPRP interview with Roine in 2010, he says "Yes, [A Man Can Feel]'s mine. Basically if I'm singing then it's my lyrics, except for the beginning where I'm singing and that's actually Pete's."

The interviewer then states that "Evermore", "Pieces Of Heaven" and "On The Prowl" have "a strong Roine feel".

Roine replies  - "'One The Prowl' is partly Pete's and mine, but the main part is actually Neal's, 'Piece Of Heaven', 'Lay Down Your Life' - the jam bit - and 'Evermore' is all mine. 'Is It Really Happening?', that's Pete, 'The Overture' and the main themes is a mix of everyone's ideas."

The beauty of The Whirlwind is that a good chunk of the album was written in the studio. Of Neal's original 43 minute "Whirlwind Demo", only about about half of it was used in the final album, or probably a little over a quarter of the final album was originally part of Neal's demos. Pete also contributes more on TW than he has on any other album, I believe, which is why he's got such a strong presence on the Whirlwind overall.

If you ever get the chance, watch the Making Of documentary. It's easily one of my favorite in-the-studio docs featuring Neal and Mike (and this is across ALL of their albums and projects).

-Marc.

Still their best album IMO.

Hard to disagree. I always find myself going back and forth between TW and BAF as their best album. I came upon the band in 2005, only a few years after BAF, and so I listened to that one to death and back, and loved it so much that when news of a third album broke in 2009, I wasn't sure it could top it, but I fell in love with it too, so it's hard for me to really choose.

-Marc.

I really like The Whirlwind quite a bit but to me it feels much, much more like a Neal Morse solo album that never got made as a Neal Morse solo album.  I think they should have left off the final track.  Too religious.  Everything that comes before that final track, though, is absolutely brilliant. 

[emtee]

That first album has a special place in my heart. Love BAF too though and TW is also incredible. I think it's time I pulled all 3 off the shelf.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Reading through this thread is giving me the itch to relisten to their catalog as well. TA were one of the first prog bands whose discography I took a bite into when I first got turned on to the genre. Have a lot of great memories listening through BAF and TW in particular.

[Stadler]

Me too. 

[The Letter M]

Edit: A Man Can Feel has a nice underlying groove, sounds more Flower Kings-ish. Guessing it’s a Roine contribution.

You would be correct. In a DPRP interview with Roine in 2010, he says "Yes, [A Man Can Feel]'s mine. Basically if I'm singing then it's my lyrics, except for the beginning where I'm singing and that's actually Pete's."

The interviewer then states that "Evermore", "Pieces Of Heaven" and "On The Prowl" have "a strong Roine feel".

Roine replies  - "'One The Prowl' is partly Pete's and mine, but the main part is actually Neal's, 'Piece Of Heaven', 'Lay Down Your Life' - the jam bit - and 'Evermore' is all mine. 'Is It Really Happening?', that's Pete, 'The Overture' and the main themes is a mix of everyone's ideas."

The beauty of The Whirlwind is that a good chunk of the album was written in the studio. Of Neal's original 43 minute "Whirlwind Demo", only about about half of it was used in the final album, or probably a little over a quarter of the final album was originally part of Neal's demos. Pete also contributes more on TW than he has on any other album, I believe, which is why he's got such a strong presence on the Whirlwind overall.

If you ever get the chance, watch the Making Of documentary. It's easily one of my favorite in-the-studio docs featuring Neal and Mike (and this is across ALL of their albums and projects).

-Marc.

Still their best album IMO.

Hard to disagree. I always find myself going back and forth between TW and BAF as their best album. I came upon the band in 2005, only a few years after BAF, and so I listened to that one to death and back, and loved it so much that when news of a third album broke in 2009, I wasn't sure it could top it, but I fell in love with it too, so it's hard for me to really choose.

-Marc.

I really like The Whirlwind quite a bit but to me it feels much, much more like a Neal Morse solo album that never got made as a Neal Morse solo album.  I think they should have left off the final track.  Too religious.  Everything that comes before that final track, though, is absolutely brilliant.

I remember when I first heard The Whirlwind, I was a bit thrown for a loop with the lyrical content of "Dancing With Eternal Glory", but going back and listening to pre-2002 Neal stuff, I felt like it wasn't anymore "religious" than anything he had done before with SB and TA.

I think what helps me with that is that, sure, because it's Neal's music and/or words, we know he's talking about God and Christianity most of the time, but (as far as I remember) DWEG doesn't even mention God or Jesus or Heaven explicitly, so it can be taken in many different religious/spiritual contexts.

Now, in Kaleidoscope, he does out-right mention God, so I could see how that might be a bit of a turn-off for some, especially for Neal Morse fans who jumped ship once Testimony rolled around.

But even so, as a fan of both Neal and Roine, it's always felt inevitable that the lyrics would skew towards religious and spiritual topics every now and then. While Roine's lyrics aren't as explicit and clear-cut as Neal's, he does write some Christian-based lyrics every now and then, but his approach can seem more broadly spiritual and less Christian Rock like Neal.

Looking ahead, it'll be interesting to see what lyrics they come up with for the new album, given all that's been going on in the world in the last year or so, and both Neal and Roine will have new albums out before TA5 drops, so fans of both will have a lot to look forward to in the coming months!

-Marc.

[425]

I think what helps me with that is that, sure, because it's Neal's music and/or words, we know he's talking about God and Christianity most of the time, but (as far as I remember) DWEG doesn't even mention God or Jesus or Heaven explicitly, so it can be taken in many different religious/spiritual contexts.

Now, in Kaleidoscope, he does out-right mention God, so I could see how that might be a bit of a turn-off for some, especially for Neal Morse fans who jumped ship once Testimony rolled around.

I agree, and I think it's important that actually neither one of these references is explicitly Christian. In DWEG, we get "the giver of life," and in Kaleidoscope we get "God." Both of those are definitely monotheistic references, but there are monotheistic religions other than Christianity, and there's no mention of Jesus and no direct reference to any exclusively Christian doctrine.

[The Letter M]

I think what helps me with that is that, sure, because it's Neal's music and/or words, we know he's talking about God and Christianity most of the time, but (as far as I remember) DWEG doesn't even mention God or Jesus or Heaven explicitly, so it can be taken in many different religious/spiritual contexts.

Now, in Kaleidoscope, he does out-right mention God, so I could see how that might be a bit of a turn-off for some, especially for Neal Morse fans who jumped ship once Testimony rolled around.

I agree, and I think it's important that actually neither one of these references is explicitly Christian. In DWEG, we get "the giver of life," and in Kaleidoscope we get "God." Both of those are definitely monotheistic references, but there are monotheistic religions other than Christianity, and there's no mention of Jesus and no direct reference to any exclusively Christian doctrine.

Right! Thank you for that insight. As a former Catholic, I knew that "giver of life" was definitely meant to be God, but looking at the music objectively, it definitely could mean anything the listener wants to interpret it as, given how vague the lyrics are. I think Neal even forced himself, on The Whirlwind, to dial back the overtly Christian lyrics, though he did sneak them in on "For Such A Time", but even then, it's not as preachy as anything he's done on Testimony or One.

Honestly, I think if Neal's solo prog career had begun with ? or Sola Scriptura, his Christian lyrics might have been better received, since those two albums are less directly influenced by his own life and based on historical/biblical events in time, and can be viewed as narrative concept albums in the same way as The Lamb or Tommy, just with a Christian-tinge. But I think Neal needed to make his Testimony first to really lay out what he was going through at the time, and I'm sure that turned off a lot of fans, though I hope many of them would have come back by now.

As someone who slowly became agnostic, I never felt particularly offended or turned-off by Neal's lyrics, and I've always told friends that, if anything could ever get me to believe in God and the Christian faith, it would probably be Neal Morse and his music!  His music is just so powerful and uplifting that sometimes, I just can help but feel the power in the air!

-Marc.

[DoctorAction]

Yeah. I love his sincerity.

[Mladen]

What sells it is the fact that you know he means it. I love the music that's passionate and honest, which is what gets to me even when I disagree with something. Knowing that the performer stands behind the words makes it powerful and emotional, you're listening to someone singing their heart out about something that means so much to them.

[Stadler]

That's me with Neal; his lyrics are just so POSITIVE, that I don't really need to literally buy in to every word to find something meaninful.   For me, a song like "Supernatural" or "Weathering Sky" have multiple layers of meaning, and I can take what I need in that moment.

[Mladen]

That's another great point. Whether or not you agree with the religious aspects of the lyrics, you cannot deny that Neal is putting out something extremely positive and noble out there.

[hefdaddy42]

I love that there are so many different perspectives on this band and its output.

For example, Bridge Across Forever is one of my favorite albums by anyone ever.  Then I have SMPTe and The Whirlwind roughly equal, with Kaleidoscope coming in fourth place.

I like the short songs on Kaleidoscope a hell of a lot more than the two epics.

[darkshade]

I think The Whirlwind is their best followed by Bridge and then SMPTe. Kaleidoscope is pretty mediocre to me, or better yet, is a bit underwhelming and just doesn't sound as inspired as much as what came before, both in TA and in each member's individual bands. I feel the general fan base more or less agrees, so I'm hoping the band is motivated by that, and they really go for it and try to make the best album they can and it winds up being one of their best among the fan base. It might be tough, but we'll see. Would a double album + bonus disc be too much?

[RoeDent]

What makes Kaleidoscope mediocre? Would SMPTE or BAF be mediocre if they came more recently and Kaleidoscope came first? Are you sure it's not just because of the order they came in that they come across as mediocre?

For me, all the albums are magnificent in their own way. If I wanted to listen to Kaleidoscope or Into the Blue, I wouldn't listen to Duel With the Devil or All Of The Above.

If you criticize anything, you are saying that the people who think otherwise, their feelings about a piece are invalid, that they are wrong. That they don't deserve to exist.

[jammindude]

What makes Kaleidoscope mediocre? Would SMPTE or BAF be mediocre if they came more recently and Kaleidoscope came first? Are you sure it's not just because of the order they came in that they come across as mediocre?

For me, all the albums are magnificent in their own way. If I wanted to listen to Kaleidoscope or Into the Blue, I wouldn't listen to Duel With the Devil or All Of The Above.

If you criticize anything, you are saying that the people who think otherwise, their feelings about a piece are invalid, that they are wrong. That they don't deserve to exist.

Wow, that escalated quickly.

[Mladen]

I think Kaleidoscope and Into the blue are pretty much just as fine as Duel with the devil, All of the above and Stranger in your soul. The middle tracks are kind of just there and drag the album down a tiny bit. It's still a good release, though. 

[darkshade]

Well, I followed up 'mediocre' with 'underwhelming', which might be more accurate. I also mean mediocre compared to what these guys have created before. I've listened to every Neal Morse, Dream Theater, and Flower Kings album* and while I don't think Kaleidoscope would be at the bottom of my list if I ranked all the the albums they've done with their main projects + TA, it definitely wouldn't come close to being top 10. I think it's mainly because the bar was set so high for me with their first 2 albums, and then The Whirlwind was even better imo. Of course, I'm not one of those old prog heads that think the music is bad just because it has some resemblance to the big prog acts of the 70s, because I think they bring elements to the music you would not have found back in those days. I do, however, kind of see where they might be coming from, you've heard all that kind of music so much and after a while you realize it doesn't venture out beyond a certain range of sounds and styles, and perhaps you find it 'dated' because you grew up at that time, perhaps. I do seek out music that is "progressive" more than I do 'Prog" or "Progressive". I have no problem calling an album that clearly showcases great musical ability, chops, sense of melody, long song lengths, etc... 'mediocre', if I feel like I've heard it all before in other albums, and done many times better (all IMO of course.) At the same time, TA4 came out at a time when I wasn't listening to much of any prog rock related music. I actually haven't been diggin' much of anything from the 4 main members of Transatlantic this past decade. I loved Banks of Eden, but have been underwhelmed with everything else Roine Stolt has released since 2007, sans The Whirlwind. Not sure what's been going on but it seems like some of that Roine magic has faded away. Portnoy hasn't done much I'm interested in outside Neal's stuff, and with Neal I think I just got burnt out on his sound so I haven't listened to him much in a while. Since Testimony 2 I haven't been crazy over his albums solo or with the Neal Morse Band since, but they seem just fine/standard fare for Neal's music and I'd probably enjoy it more if the Morse mood strikes again.

*I actually haven't gotten around to checking out the newest Flower Kings or the last 2 Neal Morse projects. Not really into Marillion based on what I've heard.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

If you criticize anything, you are saying that the people who think otherwise, their feelings about a piece are invalid, that they are wrong. That they don't deserve to exist.

This is satire, right?

[darkshade]

What makes Kaleidoscope mediocre? Would SMPTE or BAF be mediocre if they came more recently and Kaleidoscope came first? Are you sure it's not just because of the order they came in that they come across as mediocre?

For me, all the albums are magnificent in their own way. If I wanted to listen to Kaleidoscope or Into the Blue, I wouldn't listen to Duel With the Devil or All Of The Above.

If you criticize anything, you are saying that the people who think otherwise, their feelings about a piece are invalid, that they are wrong. That they don't deserve to exist.

You're criticizing my post, my piece, though. Do you think my criticism shouldn't exist or I shouldn't exist because I.... have a different opinion than yours? 

[utopiarun]

My feelings on Kaleidoscope is that unlike the others in their catalog, it seems forced, as if they had nothing and just went into the studio and created what a Transatlantic album should sound like. There are parts where I say yes this is great but then it'll go into some extended section or riffage to pad out the tracks, at least the 2 epics. I do like Black As The Sky but Beyond The Sun to me just sounds like Neal trying to write Bridge Across Forever again.

It also didn't help that when I saw them on that tour, they seemed kind of uninspired. Roine in particular seemed to be reading lyrics off a teleprompter and was late in playing some of his leads. I think that gave me a bad feeling about the album and remember saying to myself this might be the last TA album at least in a while.

[Nick]

My feelings on Kaleidoscope is that unlike the others in their catalog, it seems forced, as if they had nothing and just went into the studio and created what a Transatlantic album should sound like. There are parts where I say yes this is great but then it'll go into some extended section or riffage to pad out the tracks, at least the 2 epics. I do like Black As The Sky but Beyond The Sun to me just sounds like Neal trying to write Bridge Across Forever again.

It also didn't help that when I saw them on that tour, they seemed kind of uninspired. Roine in particular seemed to be reading lyrics off a teleprompter and was late in playing some of his leads. I think that gave me a bad feeling about the album and remember saying to myself this might be the last TA album at least in a while.

You think that tour was bad, you should have seen Roine the last time he played some TA during a special Portnoy set on one of the cruises. Had lyrics on the back of his guitar, still struggled with those, and was we'll say loose with his already free style on guitar. Love Roine, but it was disheartening to see how much better prepared everyone else seemed to be for the song.

I agree that Kaleidoscope can feel a bit forced, but I still really enjoy it, as I thoroughly enjoy all TA music. I also agree with those who have said the shorter tracks shine on the album compared to the epics.

Any complaints aside though, I can't begin to say how important Transatlantic was do my musical development. I went from Dream Theater to them, and started down branches of Flower Kings, Neal Morse / Spock's Beard, and to some extent Marillion (tho I had started on them from another source) which all led to so much more. Bridge Across Forever is a top 5 album for me, and Duel With the Devil is one of my 3 favorite songs (Xanadu and Octavarium being the others).

If I rank it's Bridge, followed close behind by SMPTe, then a small gap and the other two albums regularly battling for third, tho gun to my head I'd likely pick Whirlwind.

[hefdaddy42]

If you criticize anything, you are saying that the people who think otherwise, their feelings about a piece are invalid, that they are wrong. That they don't deserve to exist.

WTF

[The Letter M]

If you criticize anything, you are saying that the people who think otherwise, their feelings about a piece are invalid, that they are wrong. That they don't deserve to exist.

WTF

If you criticize anything, you are saying that the people who think otherwise, their feelings about a piece are invalid, that they are wrong. That they don't deserve to exist.

This is satire, right?

Yeah, this was a very odd thing to say, Roe. If you criticize something, like music, you're not invalidating others' opinions. You can like something just as much as someone can dislike something. Does this mean that when movie critics give their reviews that automatically, they invalidate everyone else's opinions and feelings? Of course not! Critics and criticisms exist as a means of people giving their own feelings and opinions on something.

Conversely, would you say that if a fan praises something that it automatically invalidates any criticism just because their feelings are so strong that they must be right?

For me, I personally quite enjoy Kaleidoscope, but of the four TA albums, I do like it about as least as their debut, and not nearly as much as BAF or TW. That doesn't mean I dislike or hate it, but I do understand where other fan's criticisms come from. I don't agree with all of them (like it was forced or phoned-in, especially after watching the Making Of documentary several times), but if people feel that way, who am I to try and change that? People's feelings on music are hard to change, and usually if they do change, they have to do it themselves.

And I don't think anyone here believes that other's opinions don't matter just because they don't agree with them. We're all entitled to our own thoughts and feelings on music, but from what I've seen of Transatlantic fans, many would agree that Kaleidoscope is their least favorite of the four, but many of them would also say that it's still good music for prog and rock in general, just not as well-liked as their previous three albums. And honestly, at four albums, ONE of them has to be someone's least favorite.

-Marc.

[425]

I understand thinking that much of Kaleidoscope is more by-numbers than the other three albums. Specifically Into the Blue, Shine and Beyond the Sun. I don't think that criticism applies very well to Black as the Sky (and, to be fair, I don't see a lot of people saying it about that one). I also think Kaleidoscope, the song, feels rather different from the other Transatlantic epics, and I find the parts that feel familiar (Desolation Days, the acoustic Neal-fronted section, being the main one) rank quite high on the scale of TA/NM music.

However, if you don't agree with this, I don't think that means you think my feelings are invalid or that I don't deserve to exist.

[bosk1]

I wouldn't say Kaleidoscope is "by the numbers."  It is easily my least favorite TA album, but it is still pretty good.  I can't point to specific, objective reasons why.  It just doesn't feel as good to me as the previous three albums.

[LudwigVan]

It feels like Kaleidoscope has a few more of the longer 'jammy' instrumental sections than the other TA albums.  Which is actually fine for me because that's an aspect of the band that I enjoy.

[The Letter M]

I wouldn't say Kaleidoscope is "by the numbers."  It is easily my least favorite TA album, but it is still pretty good.  I can't point to specific, objective reasons why.  It just doesn't feel as good to me as the previous three albums.

I would agree with that. Sure, there are moments that are definitely TA-esque, but to me, the album felt quite fresh in many places, and different from most of what they had done before, even in the big the epics. The smaller songs felt more like re-treads of WANSL and BAF, with BATS being a stand-out of those three.

I think some folks don't like it because it ISN'T TA-by-the-numbers, because those fans would've liked something more akin to SMPTe and BAF, but instead, they got something different than what they were expecting.

-Marc.