Transatlantic Official Thread

[KevShmev]

Not just Transatlantic, but Neal Morse in general. In the pre-Snow days Neal was writing epics that were really unlike anything anyone else was doing. 

Very true.  Even the structures were all over the place back then.  If you listen to a song like Flow, there really isn't another Neal-penned epic that is quite like it.  I think when 2000 rolled around, TA's All of the Above and SB's The Great Nothing went over well so much with fans that he has kind of clung to that kind of structure when doing his epics.  That is not necessarily a bad thing, as he's given us a crap ton of great epics since, but I get why some have that "been there done that" feeling with some or all of them.

  And while Into the Blue is nothing "new", I think it is a very worthy companion to the early epics.

It's really good.  It's probably my least favorite of Transatlantic's "sidelong" epics, but I still enjoy it a ton.

[TheAtliator]

"There is no place to hot to mine the blackest gold
You gave her birth and now you watch her growing old
If life is leaving tomorrow, we'll turn our backs to all sorrow
And in a dancing ghost town, that's the end of story"

It may very well have a meaning, but nothing that is possible to be derived from just the music and lyrics themselves. Unless I'm really missing something, these aren't something that is poetic or just takes time to decipher (like say Lifting Shadows or something), rather, they're just vague and poetic like someone broadly stating something about not falling into superficial desires. Theres no direction for these lyrics other than that broad topic.

Have you listened to The Flower Kings?  They've got about a dozen albums that say absolutely nothing, but they're still great! 




You should be "smiling like a horse, my child..."   

  No I still have to get into them. Thats hilarious, but yea it really bugs me and I really can't enjoy lyrics like that. It sounds kinda like when you're listening to someone try to talk about a subject that they clearly have no clue about. So they start getting really vague and don't want to be held to anything.

"The trial jukebox of deception and tyranny, you'll see it works so well, it's proven through our history, they lead us on in darkness just like stupid sheep"

WHO does? What are you calling tyrannical and how the hell is it analogous to a jukebox?

[BRGM]

It's "Tried toolbox*"

[TheAtliator]

Oh......



Well that explains it

   I coulda looked that up first, huh...

[rumborak]

I realized today while browsing my phone's SD card that I had Kaleidoscope on it. So, I figured I'd throw it on, giving it a second chance.
Man, no. While the music is ok-ish (they've done better, they've done worse), the lyrics are just too much. How many times can one listen to lyrics about God (Into the Blue), Heaven (Beyond the Sun) and the end of days (Kaleidoscope)?
Neal Morse has turned into the Phil Collins of prog.
Sorry for the harsh words, but I really quite liked this band, and seeing them being turned into a ministry band is rather upsetting.

[KevShmev]

Bummer for you.

While not as great as the first three, I still think it's really, really good. 

[Mosh]

It's far better than The Whirlwind I think. Whirlwind is a great piece but it seriously drags, after hearing some of the repeated themes I start to get seriously tired of them.

[KevShmev]

Not me.  Five years and hundreds of listens later, I still enjoy the hell out of almost all of it.

[Ben_Jamin]

Wow Rumby, a lot of bands you listen to must have a lot of, god, heaven, end of days lyrics.

[rumborak]

How so? Are you suggesting those lyrics are not about what I think they are about? (queue Inigo Montoya pic after this sentence).
I would be hard pressed to come up with a different interpretation of the lyrics.

[hefdaddy42]

I would be hard pressed to come up with a different interpretation of the lyrics.

That's partly because you are looking for them.

I get something vaguely like what you are saying from Beyond The Sun, but it's certainly not specific. 

[KevShmev]

I would submit that if some had never heard Transatlantic or Neal Morse before, and then listened to Kaleidoscope, most would not come away from it thinking that the lyrics were too religious or anything like that.  They are worded in a general and broad enough manner to not be obvious, unlike a lot of the lyrics on Neal's solo albums.

[Dark Castle]

Even if you might not find the lyrics particularly religious, which at the very least some of them definitely are, they still sound pretty spiritual.

[The Letter M]

Are people still surprised that Neal writes spiritual lyrics anymore? He's been doing that since day 1 with Spock's Beard, and even the first two Transatlantic albums had some of it. His prog solo albums became more forward with it, but even with Momentum, it got toned back to SB-levels of spiritual lyrics. Kaleidoscope isn't nearly as forward with the religious/spiritual stuff as The Whirlwind was, at least to me.

My only gripe is that the title track ends with an extended fade out. Meh... I dislike fade-outs, and I didn't like it too much on Testimony 2 either, but I got used to it.

-Marc.

[KevShmev]

Nooooo, the fadeout at the end of Crossing Over/Mercy Street Reprise is absolutely perfect.  The way it explodes back into that main melody shortly after it begins slowly fading out is absolutely incredible and gives you the feeling that it will go on forever, even though the journey for us, the listeners, is over.  That is how I interpret it.

However, what you said about his spiritual lyrics is mostly true.  He has always written spiritual lyrics, and the only overtly religious ones are on his solo albums and a couple of songs on The Whirlwind (one of which is a bonus track).

[The Letter M]

Nooooo, the fadeout at the end of Crossing Over/Mercy Street Reprise is absolutely perfect.  The way it explodes back into that main melody shortly after it begins slowly fading out is absolutely incredible and gives you the feeling that it will go on forever, even though the journey for us, the listeners, is over.  That is how I interpret it.

However, what you said about his spiritual lyrics is mostly true.  He has always written spiritual lyrics, and the only overtly religious ones are on his solo albums and a couple of songs on The Whirlwind (one of which is a bonus track).

True. Anything mentioning Jesus or God, but even with God, it can be interpreted many ways, like, it could be HIS God, or my God, or anyone's God, or even god without a capital "G". It's just a deity to some, or a deeply connected religious figure for others. And the way I see his telling of stories about religion is no different than the lyrics of Jon Anderson with Yes - it's a story, based on history, told with religious words. Now, albums like One or his Testimony albums are more personal and less narrative in the story-telling sense, but they're more inspirational and uplifting, so I don't feel bogged down by the overtly spiritual and religious lyrics. I'm not much of a believer myself, but I'll be damned if I don't feel good after listening to "King Jesus"!

Neal's lyrics have always been that way for me, and it's part of the reason I enjoy him and his music so much. He's inspirational, through his music and his lyrics, and I think if he knew how happy and uplifting his music could make me, or anyone feel, then his job would be done well. He's even gone on the record at concerts saying how he doesn't mean to impose or offend anyone with his words or lyrics or messages in music, but that he hopes that he can make people FEEL something good, something hopeful and something positive. I've been out of religion for 15 years now, but Neal has made me feel more hopeful and positive with his music than ever before, so I do no mind or care that his lyrics are the way they are. Let it be, and if it's good, it'll affect me. If it isn't, I'm still sure to find something good about it.

-Marc.

[rumborak]

I would be hard pressed to come up with a different interpretation of the lyrics.

That's partly because you are looking for them.

I get something vaguely like what you are saying from Beyond The Sun, but it's certainly not specific.

I give you that I am probably over-sensitive at this point given Neal's history, but come on.

In The Blue: "The Dreamer and the Healer, Await for you - they wait for you, The Caller and Conceiver... And if you find the book of Eli ..."
Kaleidoscope: "We will ride the lightning day, As we set our souls on fire ... And so the king of karma lost his only son ..."

[bosk1]

I'm not sure I follow you regarding Into The Blue, rumborak.  I honestly have no clue what "The Dreamer and the Healer" is supposed to refer to.  That whole lyric is very vague to me.  And "the book of Eli" lyric has nothing to do with Christianity.  There is no such thing as a "book of Eli," either in the biblical cannon or in historical tradition.  Google it and the only thing you find is the 2010 Denzel Washington movie, which as I understand it, didn't really deal with biblical topics at all (it was a fictional story about a dude named Eli in a post-apocalytpic Road Warrior type world who misguidedly believed that he could make people follow him if he got a copy of the Bible).  Whatever Roine was trying to say with that lyric is...well, not in the same realm as what you would find in Neal's solo lyrics. 

And to be clear, I am not saying Neal's lyrics do not have a Christian bent to them.  They do.  But I really don't see it in Into The Blue, especially in the Neal or the Roine passages that you cited.

[rumborak]

What else could The Caller and The Conceiver be?

[Dark Castle]

Eli could just be short for Elijah. It also came up in a google search of Book of Eli. Just pointing that out,

[The Letter M]

What else could The Caller and The Conceiver be?

The Caller and The Conceiver , obviously. I take the lyrics at face value. If it's not explicitly Jesus or God in the Christian sense, I can take the lyrics as they are.

I mean, I don't really question who By-Tor or the Snowdog are, but I just take it all as I see/hear it, and enjoy the lyrics with the music.

-Marc.

[bosk1]

What else could The Caller and The Conceiver be?

Dunno.  Honestly, it's such vague and strange wording that I have a tough time figuring it out.

Eli could just be short for Elijah. It also came up in a google search of Book of Eli. Just pointing that out,

Okay, but even if that were true, there is no "Book of Elijah," and the story of Elijah doesn't fit.  I still subscribe to the theory that those lyrics are just a product of Roine's imagination.

[KevShmev]

To heck with the caller and conceiver...I am still wondering who the doorway is!!

[The Letter M]

To heck with the caller and conceiver...I am still wondering who the doorway is!!

YOU are, Kev!

-Marc.

[hefdaddy42]

In The Blue: "The Dreamer and the Healer, Await for you - they wait for you, The Caller and Conceiver... And if you find the book of Eli ..."
Kaleidoscope: "We will ride the lightning day, As we set our souls on fire ... And so the king of karma lost his only son ..."

Yeah, exactly 0% of that is Biblical.

[rumborak]

What else could The Caller and The Conceiver be?

Dunno.  Honestly, it's such vague and strange wording that I have a tough time figuring it out.

Let me help you a bit. What being is the only one for which uppercase starting letters are used (e.g. as in "As His life fills everything" in Kaleidoscope)?

[Orbert]

The Miracle and The Sleeper

[Dark Castle]

What else could The Caller and The Conceiver be?

Dunno.  Honestly, it's such vague and strange wording that I have a tough time figuring it out.

Eli could just be short for Elijah. It also came up in a google search of Book of Eli. Just pointing that out,

Okay, but even if that were true, there is no "Book of Elijah," and the story of Elijah doesn't fit.  I still subscribe to the theory that those lyrics are just a product of Roine's imagination.

Wasn't really trying to prove anything, just throwing up some suggestions

[rumborak]

@Orbert:

That's different though, as that is just usual title uppercase writing.

[bosk1]

Eli could just be short for Elijah. It also came up in a google search of Book of Eli. Just pointing that out,

Okay, but even if that were true, there is no "Book of Elijah," and the story of Elijah doesn't fit.  I still subscribe to the theory that those lyrics are just a product of Roine's imagination.

Wasn't really trying to prove anything, just throwing up some suggestions

Oh, I know.  Sorry if it sounded like I was being argumentative in my post.  I didn't mean to be.  I was just saying that even though it is a plausible suggestion, it still doesn't really seem to fit.

[bosk1]

What else could The Caller and The Conceiver be?

Dunno.  Honestly, it's such vague and strange wording that I have a tough time figuring it out.

Let me help you a bit. What being is the only one for which uppercase starting letters are used (e.g. as in "As His life fills everything" in Kaleidoscope)?

The way he sings it, it didn't sound capitalized to me. 

[rumborak]

k

[ariich]

Something being capitalised would simply denote it being a title, no reason it should be anything to do with god. Especially, as bosk pointed out, as most of those lyrics are Roine's, not Neal's.

Honestly rumby, I think you're seeing things that aren't there because of your dislike of Neal's religious lyrics.

[Mindflux]

bro it totally sounded like he sand that with a capital H

[rumborak]

Something being capitalised would simply denote it being a title, no reason it should be anything to do with god. Especially, as bosk pointed out, as most of those lyrics are Roine's, not Neal's.

That applies to "His" as well? Seriously, have you ever seen that word written in uppercase in the middle of a sentence, when it did NOT refer to Jesus or God?

Honestly rumby, I think you're seeing things that aren't there because of your dislike of Neal's religious lyrics.

Not at all. I find it *very* strange that you guys make the argument that a guy who's been writing 95% religious lyrics on his albums, will suddenly stop doing so on TA. Especially when the previous TA album was sledgehammer religious.