A message to Mike and a quick introduction

[robwebster]

I'm with you, I really like MP's vocal on ANTR.

Same here.  I take them on a case-by-case basis, but I haven't disliked any of Mike's vocals on any final version of a DT song so far.  ANTR is just about perfect (although the "rooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!" at the end feels very unnecessary to me).  Same with Constant Motion, The Glass Prison, The Shattered Fortress, etc.  Does that mean I'd like to see Mike take over more leads?  Dunno.  It all depends on how they sound.  As I said, I can't really think of any final version of songs I don't like.  But take the demos for TBOT Wither for example.  I much prefer James' vocals on those to the demos by Mike and JP.  James' voice was perfect for those. 

All of the above.

Mike Portnoy's got a different voice. He's not as talented as James LaBrie - which is why he's not the lead vocalist - but he's got a very different texture and hasn't been misused once, so far. Lots of fun when MP takes the mic.

I really like JP's timbre, too, at that. I'd like it if he did more backing.

at no point have I ever come close to thinking "man, they are really straying too far from their sound, I wish they'd stop experimenting."  Quite the opposite lately, actually.

I tend to agree. Although I am very, VERY fond of the music they're making currently, BCSL was a pretty "safe" album. I like to be made to go "whoa."

In fairness though, Systematic Chaos was fairly experimental and completely different, so it's not like it's a trend emerging. Although, the layout is starting to get a bit complacent. If there's such thing as a complacent layout!

[Samsara]

I've found myself agreeing with the vast majority of your posts on DT lately Samsara, but here I gotta go with Kev and TOX.  I don't love every piece of music DT puts out and I often say so, but at no point have I ever come close to thinking "man, they are really straying too far from their sound, I wish they'd stop experimenting."  Quite the opposite lately, actually.

-J

And that's cool. That's the beauty of music being such a personal and subjective thing. I think happen to think the "harsh" lead lines by Portnoy stray a bit from the band's overall sound. But what that sound is, is also subjective, ya know? No biggie.

[sammmuk]

I've finally found the thing I've been looking to show you. This should clear my point up somewhat of what I originally said, this is a quote from MP, please take the time to read it if it's not already been posted 1000 times before...


________________________________
I knew my vocals in A Nighmare To Remember would surely spark some controversy...looks like I was right!   
 
As The Count Of Tuscany once said:
"wait a minute man....that's not how it is...let me please explain!"
 
1. The original melody that JP had to this section I felt did not work with the music. This section of the song has a really heavy, driving Judas Priest/King Diamond vibe musically...and JP had a melody that was more melodic and James' high voice I felt REALLY softened up the music to this very important dramatic section of the song.
 
(mp3 not available for this example)
 
 
2. I really kept hearing a Mikael Akerfeldt type Opeth death growl (yes, cookie monster vocals - sorry Setlist Scotty!) Like em or hate em, the section was really calling for it to my ears (listen to the instrumental version and you'll hear what I mean...)
The thought crossed my mind to ask Mikael himself to do it, but then I figured I'd end up having to do it live every night on tour, so it might as well be me on the CD....
 
So I gave it my best shot and here's what it was:
 
 https://www.mikeportnoy.com/mp/ANTR%20MP%20Cookie.mp3
 
In the end, JP and I discussed it and he just couldn't hang with the cookie...he thought it was just TOO radical for DT fans to swallow...
 
 
3. So I agreed to try adding James doing a bit of a "counterpoint" to my cookie monster version to possible help soften the blow and add a little melody to the part....so here's what it sounded like:
 
 https://www.mikeportnoy.com/mp/ANTR MP & JLB.mp3
 
I did not dig this approach as
a) James' clean vocals were still softening up the music to me
b) the counterpoint approach made it all too confusing and distracted from the drive of the music
 
 
4. So John and I went back to the idea of keeping my vocals for the section to keep it heavy and driving, but getting rid of the Opeth cookie monster approach and going for a more Robb Flynn/Machine Head approach instead (kind of like my "Constant Motion" voice)
 
In the end, that is what we went with:
 
 https://www.mikeportnoy.com/mp/ANTR%20Final.mp3
 
I did indeed know that no matter what, we wouldn't please everybody with the idea, but I really felt a "heavy" approach was needed to keep the heaviness of the section (and hey...look at Roger Waters, Wayne Coyne, Neil Young, Dave Mustaine, Jeff Tweety, James Hetfield, etc etc. the truth is *anybody* can sing...it's all about having personailty and emotion in the expression... )
 
I know my voice my not be everybody's cup of tea (especially the heavy side), but sometimes
a contrast to James' cleaner vocals are needed with some of the heavy riffs and I believe "character" or "personality" in a voice is just as important in music and the expression of your art, it's not always about virtuoso, operatic range...
 
Ultimately, if you really are bothered by em then I suppose you can at least thank me for making the instrumental mixes and isolated stems available!

 
MP
 
 
PS - On a side note as this thread is really aimed to clear up my side of the street amongst the bashers: I must say the amount of hatred and negativity towards me on other DT "fan" sites is truly incredible (you know who you are)...my skin is not as thick as you may think!
 
It baffles me that as the member of DT (or any band for that matter) that must be one of the most fan-driven musicians in the industry, I am so slammed by our "fans"...while other artists (who will go unnamed) that could care less our fans are put on a pedestal....sorry, I am still human and can read these forums and it indeed hurts sometimes...
 
Please feel free to post this on those sites as well...
 

[Samsara]

Mmmkay.

 

[bosk1]

Yeah, I've seen/heard that before.  Just listened to the cookie version again and still feel like we got the best possible version in the final product.

[Perpetual Change]

I really wish we could have heard James' clean vocals without the cookie.  That, I think, was probably the best them.

[hefdaddy42]

I've finally found the thing I've been looking to show you. This should clear my point up somewhat of what I originally said, this is a quote from MP, please take the time to read it if it's not already been posted 1000 times before...


________________________________
I knew my vocals in A Nighmare To Remember would surely spark some controversy...looks like I was right!   
 
As The Count Of Tuscany once said:
"wait a minute man....that's not how it is...let me please explain!"
 
1. The original melody that JP had to this section I felt did not work with the music. This section of the song has a really heavy, driving Judas Priest/King Diamond vibe musically...and JP had a melody that was more melodic and James' high voice I felt REALLY softened up the music to this very important dramatic section of the song.
 
(mp3 not available for this example)
 
 
2. I really kept hearing a Mikael Akerfeldt type Opeth death growl (yes, cookie monster vocals - sorry Setlist Scotty!) Like em or hate em, the section was really calling for it to my ears (listen to the instrumental version and you'll hear what I mean...)
The thought crossed my mind to ask Mikael himself to do it, but then I figured I'd end up having to do it live every night on tour, so it might as well be me on the CD....
 
So I gave it my best shot and here's what it was:
 
 https://www.mikeportnoy.com/mp/ANTR%20MP%20Cookie.mp3
 
In the end, JP and I discussed it and he just couldn't hang with the cookie...he thought it was just TOO radical for DT fans to swallow...
 
 
3. So I agreed to try adding James doing a bit of a "counterpoint" to my cookie monster version to possible help soften the blow and add a little melody to the part....so here's what it sounded like:
 
 https://www.mikeportnoy.com/mp/ANTR MP & JLB.mp3
 
I did not dig this approach as
a) James' clean vocals were still softening up the music to me
b) the counterpoint approach made it all too confusing and distracted from the drive of the music
 
 
4. So John and I went back to the idea of keeping my vocals for the section to keep it heavy and driving, but getting rid of the Opeth cookie monster approach and going for a more Robb Flynn/Machine Head approach instead (kind of like my "Constant Motion" voice)
 
In the end, that is what we went with:
 
 https://www.mikeportnoy.com/mp/ANTR%20Final.mp3
 
I did indeed know that no matter what, we wouldn't please everybody with the idea, but I really felt a "heavy" approach was needed to keep the heaviness of the section (and hey...look at Roger Waters, Wayne Coyne, Neil Young, Dave Mustaine, Jeff Tweety, James Hetfield, etc etc. the truth is *anybody* can sing...it's all about having personailty and emotion in the expression... )
 
I know my voice my not be everybody's cup of tea (especially the heavy side), but sometimes
a contrast to James' cleaner vocals are needed with some of the heavy riffs and I believe "character" or "personality" in a voice is just as important in music and the expression of your art, it's not always about virtuoso, operatic range...
 
Ultimately, if you really are bothered by em then I suppose you can at least thank me for making the instrumental mixes and isolated stems available!

 
MP
 
 
PS - On a side note as this thread is really aimed to clear up my side of the street amongst the bashers: I must say the amount of hatred and negativity towards me on other DT "fan" sites is truly incredible (you know who you are)...my skin is not as thick as you may think!
 
It baffles me that as the member of DT (or any band for that matter) that must be one of the most fan-driven musicians in the industry, I am so slammed by our "fans"...while other artists (who will go unnamed) that could care less our fans are put on a pedestal....sorry, I am still human and can read these forums and it indeed hurts sometimes...
 
Please feel free to post this on those sites as well...
 

This is from months ago.  Nothing new here.

[sammmuk]

This is from months ago.  Nothing new here.

So..?
Sorry, I don't see your point

[hefdaddy42]

I'm just saying that you pulled something up to "support" your point that we've already seen long ago.  It's not news. 

It's really no big deal.  Any time any band tries something new, some of their fans will like it, and some won't.  That's just how it works.  For the people that like it, there it is for them to like.  For the people that don't, it is skippable.

[blackngold29]

I read the title and thought it said a "message from Mike" and that it was MP.

[KevShmev]

Regarding those three different ideas for the ANTR section, none of them are good, IMO.  Sure, what they went with might have been the least worst of the three, but it almost sounds like they couldn't think of a better way to do it, so rather than rewrite that part of the song, to make it work really well, they just went with the least worst of the three ideas.  I am not going to say that that was lazy songwriting, but it was definitely the path of least resistance.  Like I have said, I don't think that part is as awful as some do, but it is certainly, to me, the least best part of an otherwise damn fine song.

[Bone_Daddy]

There comes a time where a band member's interests may take him/her away from the core "sound" of a band. That's cool, but that's what side projects are for.

Okay, I am not overly wild about Portnoy's vocal section in ANTR (although I don't think it sucks as much as some do), but what does your comment even mean?  The band's core "sound"?  Last time I checked, Dream Theater considers themselves progressive metal, and part of being progressive is taking chances and doing things outside of the box.  See, that is the problem with most newer bands who call themselves progressive; they stick to their core sound and become convinced that long songs and odd time sigs are what make them prog, as opposed to taking chances and being, ya know, progressive!  DT may not have fully connected on that one, IMO, but at least they tried something different.  That, my friend, is being progressive.

My comment means what it says, thanks. And I disagree with you. All bands have an element of what they "sound like." when they veer too far off the path, you tend to lose people. Some bands (DT, Queensryche) have a wider "box" than others (Megadeth, Metallica). But at the end of the day, if you push the envelope too far, bands fall off a cliff. Not saying DT is at that point, but the whole growl vocal section is absolutely not something I wish to hear from Dream Theater.

+1
MP is a great drummer. I listen to DT and LTE to hear him play the drums.

I will admit he does make a good effort in SFAM "Home" harmonizing. Outside of that, if he doesn't contribute vocally to a DT album, my feelings would not be hurt and IMHO it would probably be better for the song.

[2Timer]

I think MP's vocals have really come a long way since the SFAM shows.
As for KM's vocals on SDV...I've never heard it. I knew it existed, but I don't know where or how to find it.
Welcome to the forum. I'll probably be hitting you up to join track of the day sometime soon.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

I think MP's vocals have really come a long way since the SFAM shows.
As for KM's vocals on SDV...I've never heard it. I knew it existed, but I don't know where or how to find it.
Welcome to the forum. I'll probably be hitting you up to join track of the day sometime soon.

It's on a demo called "Music Meant To Be Heard

[sammmuk]

I think MP's vocals have really come a long way since the SFAM shows.
As for KM's vocals on SDV...I've never heard it. I knew it existed, but I don't know where or how to find it.
Welcome to the forum. I'll probably be hitting you up to join track of the day sometime soon.

Sweet, I don't know what that is but I play the Drums primarily now, although I'm not so bad on the guitar either.