Author Topic: The James Bond Thread  (Read 111263 times)

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Offline TL

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #420 on: October 28, 2015, 03:37:28 PM »
For me, Die Another Day is certainly bad, and gets really stupid as it goes, but at least I can enjoy it as a big dumb spectacle of a thing.

My least favorite Bond film is easily Diamonds Are Forever. There's so much completely squandered and unused potential that was set up in OHMSS. Even more than that though, I just find it really unpleasant to watch.

Offline mrrct

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #421 on: October 28, 2015, 04:35:52 PM »
"Moonraker" and "Octopussy" are the worst Bond films in my opinion, with neither having any redeeming qualities.  "Die Another Day" is very bad, as are most of the Moore films, but those two take the cake.

If Idris Elba was cast as a Norse god in "Thor," there's no reason that he can't play James Bond.  It's just that he's not that much younger than Craig and, by the time the latter does the remaining film that he's contractually obligated for, Broccoli and Wilson will probably want someone younger.

Craig can bitch all he wants about the job right now, as Connery did before him.  Eventually, when he's replaced, and doing nothing remotely close in popularity, ten or so years down the road he'll jump at the chance to play the character again, as Connery did before him ("Never Say Never Again"), even to the point of remaking "Thunderball."  Harrison Ford initially didn't want to come back as Han Solo for "Return of the Jedi," but thirty years later he jumped at the chance to play the character again.  These primadonnas don't know what they've got until it's gone.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #422 on: October 28, 2015, 04:51:35 PM »
To be fair to Daniel Craig - Spectre was probably a tough shoot and he did say " right now i'd rather slash my wrists ".

He's probably just exhausted.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #423 on: October 28, 2015, 10:08:11 PM »
Harrison Ford initially didn't want to come back as Han Solo for "Return of the Jedi," but thirty years later he jumped at the chance to play the character again. 

That was because he didn't think there was anything interesting left in the character's arc. And Ford (or Connery, for that matter) isn't exactly hurting for money, or fame. I am sure he was drawn to this movie for the story, not the cash. I am sure Connery still gets calls too, but is happily retired.

Die Another Day had a cool premise. But was bogged down in too much crap to make it worthwhile. I'd still take it over some of Moore's weaker films though, and Diamonds, for the entertainment value.
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Offline mrrct

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #424 on: October 28, 2015, 10:21:34 PM »
Wasn't suggesting that Craig would be broke or unable to find work, just that he'd settle down and do middling movies, like the things he does between Bond films, and miss being a household name.

Connery actually quit the franchise twice, each time probably because Eon films wouldn't meet his asking price.  He actually received the highest acting salary up to that time for "Diamonds Are Forever," $2 million if I recall correctly.  He had purchased the rights to the screenplay for "Never Say Never Again" and had held it for years, so he probably wanted to play the character again deep down, regardless of whatever he publicly said.  Craig probably just wants a break from the character to try different things and not have as demanding a shoot for a few years.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #425 on: October 28, 2015, 10:39:53 PM »
I imagine for most celebs, it is a double-edge sword. You get all the fame and paparazzi and other crap that goes with being an A-lister, and you wish it would go away. And then it does, and you start to want it back.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #426 on: October 29, 2015, 08:06:46 PM »
I was just saying the other day how completely hokey most of the Moore films are.  Even the acclaimed Spy Who Loved me just bores me to tears.   Live and Let Die is a Bond Blaxspoitation film, and it's just utterly ridiculous.   Moonraker is almost as much parody as The Naked Gun series. 

The only Moore films I recall enjoying were For Your Eyes Only and A View to A Kill.  The rest were pretty bad (though still good for occasional fun if you're in an extremely campy mood).

My step son and I are going to rewatch the Craig trilogy before we go to see Spectre on opening day...should be fun.  I never got around to seeing Quantum because of all the bad reviews, so that will be a first.
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Offline The Trooper

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #427 on: October 29, 2015, 10:02:43 PM »
I have seen Spectre and if he did do a lot of the stunts and the grinding work that is in the film. I get his comments. It is a spectacular film. Probably one on the best Bond films ever. It is well written, acted and the action holy crap. He is under contract for 1 more, but who knows. The action stuff in the film is demanding. Do not get me wrong, the guy is a monster in physical shape. But an almost 2 year shoot for the film with whats in it is demanding.

Offline The Trooper

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #428 on: October 29, 2015, 10:04:35 PM »
and with the way Craig set up his contract for the Bond films he is not hurting for cash.

Offline fadetoblackdude7

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #429 on: October 29, 2015, 11:54:10 PM »

My step son and I are going to rewatch the Craig trilogy before we go to see Spectre on opening day...should be fun.  I never got around to seeing Quantum because of all the bad reviews, so that will be a first.

Lower your expectations. Horrible film. The ONLY thing I like about it is Daniel.

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #430 on: October 30, 2015, 02:39:41 AM »
I didn't leave the cinema thinking Quantum of Solace was bad, just that it felt a bit bland. I honestly don't remember much about it, didn't it have a scene at a opera house or something? I vaguely remember that. And I remember a fairly unique looking building where the end took place. But the plot itself was kinda weird and having the main bad guy be some regular office dude who wanted to obtain all the water in the desert (or something) was also weird. Also the action scenes were filmed so bad compared to the previous films, a lot of shaky cam.

That's about all I remember.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #431 on: October 30, 2015, 04:56:19 AM »
I didn't leave the cinema thinking Quantum of Solace was bad, just that it felt a bit bland. I honestly don't remember much about it, didn't it have a scene at a opera house or something? I vaguely remember that. And I remember a fairly unique looking building where the end took place. But the plot itself was kinda weird and having the main bad guy be some regular office dude who wanted to obtain all the water in the desert (or something) was also weird. Also the action scenes were filmed so bad compared to the previous films, a lot of shaky cam.

That's about all I remember.

Same director as World War Z which also had terrible camerawork.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #432 on: October 30, 2015, 05:01:45 AM »
I didn't leave the cinema thinking Quantum of Solace was bad, just that it felt a bit bland. I honestly don't remember much about it, didn't it have a scene at a opera house or something? I vaguely remember that. And I remember a fairly unique looking building where the end took place. But the plot itself was kinda weird and having the main bad guy be some regular office dude who wanted to obtain all the water in the desert (or something) was also weird.

That's pretty similar to my thoughts.
I don't think the movie is near as bad as people say, but nor is it a noteworthy Bond film. It's just kinda there.

I recall a sequence in particular that the shaky cam and quick editing particularly annoyed me, but I can't remember if it was in QoS or Casino Royale. Going by the setting I remember, it was probably QoS though.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #433 on: October 30, 2015, 05:23:49 AM »
I didn't leave the cinema thinking Quantum of Solace was bad, just that it felt a bit bland. I honestly don't remember much about it, didn't it have a scene at a opera house or something? I vaguely remember that. And I remember a fairly unique looking building where the end took place. But the plot itself was kinda weird and having the main bad guy be some regular office dude who wanted to obtain all the water in the desert (or something) was also weird.

That's pretty similar to my thoughts.
I don't think the movie is near as bad as people say, but nor is it a noteworthy Bond film. It's just kinda there.

I recall a sequence in particular that the shaky cam and quick editing particularly annoyed me, but I can't remember if it was in QoS or Casino Royale. Going by the setting I remember, it was probably QoS though.

It's definitely very noticeable in the opening car chase. One of those " well we haven't choreographed this scene so just drive and i'll shake the camera about in close up "

Offline BlackInk

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #434 on: November 01, 2015, 05:49:51 AM »
SPOILERS FOR SPECTRE FOLLOWS



---------



Saw the movie yesterday, and while I'd say that it is definetely a good movie, it was a bit of a disappointment. It also made some weird choices at times.

Let's talk the villain first, which is the main problem with the movie. Waltz does an excellent job with the role he's given, but the role itself isn't as impactful as it feels like they wanted it to. Silva was way more threatening and intense. Le Chiffre was also a much better villain overall. They tried to tie it all together and make Blofeld a bigger presence as a villain by having him be behind the events of all the previous movies. And while I think stuff like that is cool, the execution of that idea was a bit underwhelming. I didn't really get the connection between the various villains over the years. Le Chiffre and Mr White I can sort of get, but it's still pretty flimsy. And was Quantum a sub-organisation of Spectre? I guess, but why? What's the difference between those two groups? The movie never really attempts to explain. And Blofeld was connected to Silva? Same as the other movies, there is no hint at a higher power in Skyfall, so it just seems like an afterthought.

Blofeld also says at some point that he was responsible for the women in his life dying, specifically Vesper and M. Vesper died from drowning in a sinking building. Did Blofeld plan that? I don't see how he could. Also, it was Silva's plan to kill M, which might have benefitted Spectre. But Blofeld makes it sound like M dying was a punishment because Bond interfered with his work. But Silva's plan to kill M had already started before Bond had interfered. And it was super personal for Silva, he would probably have done that anyways, Bond interfering or not.

Also, he causes no damage for Bond himself in the movie. Nothing of real consequence happens here. The drilling into the skull torture scene was certainly intense, but it resulted in nothing. There was the idea that Bond might lose the ability to recognize faces, which would have been huge, but that didn't happen... for some reason... despite Blofeld actually doing the thing that was supposed to make that happen.

So all of those attempts to give more weight to Blofeld failed a bit for me, and he disappointingly ended up a not really memorable Bond villain because he never really did anything. Which is really a damn shame.

Also, some scenes were a but dragged out. One being through the stylistic choices made during the Spectre grand meeting scene. Long passages where no one says anything, there's no music, nothing really happens. I get what they were going for, I absolutely do, but I think they took it a bit too far and the scene ended up being a bit dull. It ended in a very cool way though, with Blofeld announcing that he knew Bond was there watching. And when he turned his head and looked straight at him was really cool.

Unfortunately, what followed was a way too dragged out car chase. A car chase in a movie shouldn't feel slow, but something about it was just off.

The stand-out part of the movie though was the part at Blofeld's desert headquarter. The meteorite chamber, the Blofeld speeches, the torture scene, and then the escape, all really exciting stuff.

It is also clear that they wanted to have a "final movie" feel here. But again, nothing of real impact happened to reach that goal. Skyfall felt much more like a "the last movie".

This was me really focusing on the issues though. There is still a lot to enjoy about this movie though, and like I said in the beginning, I overall think this was a really good movie. And from a visual and productional stand point, it's brilliantly made. I'd rank it above Quantum of Solace (which I like more than most), but below both Casino Royal and Skyfall.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #435 on: November 01, 2015, 08:31:58 AM »
Yes. If QoS was as good as Daniel Craig's other three - he'd be a sure fire contender for best bond ever.

As it is - QoS is merely good and not great whilst I think Casino Royale, Skyfall and Spectre are great.

But at least he didn't do Goldeneye and then follow it up with three duds.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #436 on: November 01, 2015, 08:42:33 AM »
Yes. If QoS was as good as Daniel Craig's other three - he'd be a sure fire contender for best bond ever.

As it is - QoS is merely good and not great whilst I think Casino Royale, Skyfall and Spectre are great.

But at least he didn't do Goldeneye and then follow it up with three duds.

I thought Tomorrow Never Dies was ok-ish. Not what I'd call a dud, not great, but it had its moments. I won't argue on his last two, and I still haven't even seen Die Another Day. I'm fine to just cut my losses on that one.

As excellent as I think the new Bond movies are, Craig will never rank as a better Bond for me personally. The movies are great in spite of him, rather than because of him. Not a popular opinion I know, but he just falls flat for me. It's probably because of the era, but Brosnan will always be *my* Bond, it's just a shame they weren't all close to the standard of Goldeneye. Now, if we'd gotten movies like the new ones, but with a younger Brosnan instead of Craig, forget about it.

/controversial
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #437 on: November 01, 2015, 08:48:01 AM »

But at least he didn't do Goldeneye and then follow it up with three duds.

Very good point.

After goldeneye, I had such high expectations for the Pierce era. Sadly, it went very differently  :'(


Goldeneye  :hefdaddy Favorite bond film

Tomorrow never dies- Wacky, but entertaining. I dig it. Definitely a drop in quality from Goldeneye though.

The world is not enough- I find it very dull and I usually lose interest halfway through


Die another day :marriageanalogy:
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 10:06:15 AM by Phoenix87x »

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #438 on: November 01, 2015, 09:21:49 AM »
Yes. If QoS was as good as Daniel Craig's other three - he'd be a sure fire contender for best bond ever.

As it is - QoS is merely good and not great whilst I think Casino Royale, Skyfall and Spectre are great.

But at least he didn't do Goldeneye and then follow it up with three duds.

I thought Tomorrow Never Dies was ok-ish. Not what I'd call a dud, not great, but it had its moments. I won't argue on his last two, and I still haven't even seen Die Another Day. I'm fine to just cut my losses on that one.

As excellent as I think the new Bond movies are, Craig will never rank as a better Bond for me personally. The movies are great in spite of him, rather than because of him. Not a popular opinion I know, but he just falls flat for me. It's probably because of the era, but Brosnan will always be *my* Bond, it's just a shame they weren't all close to the standard of Goldeneye. Now, if we'd gotten movies like the new ones, but with a younger Brosnan instead of Craig, forget about it.

/controversial

I loved Pierce Brosnan as Bond but it was a shame that 3/4 of his movies were not great. The World Is Not Enough was a bit better than Tomorrow Never Dies though.

Offline mrrct

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #439 on: November 01, 2015, 12:12:00 PM »
The first is usually the best, except for a few rare exceptions (Harrison Ford better than Alec Baldwin in the Jack Ryan franchise, e.g., and even then it might just be a personal bias).  Connery was absolutely iconic in the role, even in mediocre films like "Diamonds Are Forever" and "Never Say Never Again (non-official, canon-wise)," and I'd rather see him than Lazenby, Moore, Dalton, Brosnan, or Craig, at least if he were not 86-years-old.  I like Craig's portrayal better than the other replacements because he is less of a pretty boy and rougher around the edges.  It's obvious that Craig has had the most to work with story-wise and production values-wise.

I think "Goldeneye" is actually a little overrated.  It was more akin to the tongue-in-cheek Moore films than the intense Dalton duo that preceded it, and I liked Famke Janssen's Xenia Onatopp more than anything else.  The other three were forgettable, although I liked Jonathon Pryce's Rupert Murdoch parody in "Tomorrow Never Dies."  "Die Another Day" was particularly stupid all the way around and was almost a remake of "Diamonds Are Forever" in some respects (Doomday Device powered by diamonds, villain hiding by creating plastic surgery-created body doubles or by farsical gene manipulation, etc.).

Online Zantera

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #440 on: November 01, 2015, 12:19:06 PM »
If you guys had to pick, what would be your top 3 Bond films?

I'd go with Casino Royale, Golden Eye and License to Kill.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #441 on: November 01, 2015, 12:22:50 PM »
If you guys had to pick, what would be your top 3 Bond films?

I'd go with Casino Royale, Golden Eye and License to Kill.

I can't remember all 24 but right now :

1. Goldeneye
2. Casino Royale
3. Skyfall / Spectre / A View To A Kill

Offline ozzy554

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #442 on: November 01, 2015, 12:44:25 PM »
1. On her Majestys Secret Service
2. Thunderball
3. Licence to Kill
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Offline Polarbear

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #443 on: November 01, 2015, 12:58:42 PM »
If you guys had to pick, what would be your top 3 Bond films?

I'd go with Casino Royale, Golden Eye and License to Kill.

Tough question! Right now, i would go with these 3.

1. Thunderball
2. The Spy Who Loved Me
3. Goldeneye

Offline BlackInk

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #444 on: November 01, 2015, 01:04:10 PM »
1. Skyfall
2. Casino Royal
3. Spectre

I have seen one non-Craig Bond movie, which was Die Another Day.

Offline mrrct

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #445 on: November 01, 2015, 01:14:17 PM »
Overall:
1. Casino Royale
2. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
3. Skyfall

Moore Films:
1. For Your Eyes Only (the least ridiculous Moore film + the end of Blofeld)
2. The Spy Who Loved Me (overrated by some; loved the visual of Jaws eating the shark instead of the other way around)
3. A View To A Kill (thanks to Christopher Walken and the Duran Duran theme song)
4. The Man With The Golden Gun (almost entirely thanks to Christopher Lee)
5. Live And Let Die (a Blaxploitation film that included James Bond)
6. Moonraker (laser guns? seriously?)
7. Octopussy (James Bond in a clown suit; need I say more?)

Connery Films:
1. From Russia With Love (good story and strong supporting characters in Tatiana Romanova, Red Grant, Rosa Krebb, and Al Kerim Bey)
2. Goldfinger (excellent but could have used better production values, especially when the plane was going down)
3. Thunderball (fairly boring, interminable underwater scenes)
4. You Only Live Twice (mostly for the unveiling of Donald Pleasance's Blofeld; otherwise stupid)
5. Dr. No (boring as shit, except for how Connery carried himself and Ursula Andress coming out of the water)
6. Never Say Never Again (Barbara Carrera was the best part of this Thunderball remake)
7. Diamonds Are Forever (not serious enough, especially following OHMSS)

Brosnan Films:
1. Goldeneye (the only good one, really)
2. Tomorrow Never Dies (so-so in all respects: story, Bond girls; Jonathan Pryce the only standout)
3. The World Is Not Enough (all downhill after the pre-title sequence; stupid villains, Denise Richards as a nuclear physicist)
4. Die Another Day (very little good to say about it)

Dalton Films:
1. Licence to Kill (good revenge story, entertaining villain in Robert Davi's Sanchez)
2. The Living Daylights (nothing terrible but nothing terribly memorable either; Bond gets the least action he ever has, sexually)

Craig Films:
1. Casino Royale (the best film in the entire series)
2. Skyfall (Bond the most vulnerable he's ever been to this point)
3. Quantum of Solace (underrated by some; not to the level of the other 2 Craig films; liked the understated villain, Dominic Green)


Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #446 on: November 01, 2015, 01:20:20 PM »
Dominic Green is just Tony Blair :lol

Offline mrrct

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #447 on: November 01, 2015, 01:46:14 PM »
I like that he's not a megalomaniac like most Bond villains:  he isn't planning on starting World War III or have some ridiculous, grandiose scheme for controlling the world with one foul deed.  He is willing to do a little at a time, with the accumulation of little goals (like controlling Bolivia's water supply) leading to ultimate power for Quantum (or SPECTRE, if Quantum is only a subsidiary).  Plus, he isn't over the top like almost all Bond villains.  He is much like the actor's character in "Munich," in terms of delivery and overall tendencies.  Those are the only two films I've ever seen the actor in:  maybe that is all he is capable of playing.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #448 on: November 01, 2015, 01:49:47 PM »
I know now after seeing World War Z never to watch another Marc Foster action pic :lol

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #449 on: November 01, 2015, 01:54:27 PM »
Compare the car chase scene in the opening of Quantum of Solace to the big air-battle at the end of Avatar.

Such a difference. James Cameron shows you what's going on and doesn't need to do extreme close ups with shaky cam to make it more exciting.


Offline Cool Chris

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #450 on: November 01, 2015, 08:40:09 PM »
I think "Goldeneye" is actually a little overrated.  It was more akin to the tongue-in-cheek Moore films....

I think that was part of its charm. They were definitely embracing it. Robbie Coltrain at the first meeting, quoting Bond's "Shaken, not stirred" and having a chuckle with his henchmen. The wronged villain seeking revenge is an oft-used character, but I love Sean Bean, and having an ex-00 agent going after Bond and his beloved England made for a good storyline, along with the end of the cold war background. Bond movies are often as strong, or weak, as his antagonist. I feel that is very pronounced in the Craig films. I cannot remember a thing about QoS's villain, and I can barely remember anything about the film itself.

I think Bond movies always had an element of fun to them. At least the best ones. Some of them took it too far, others maybe not far enough.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #451 on: November 01, 2015, 09:26:34 PM »
I think Bond movies always had an element of fun to them. At least the best ones. Some of them took it too far, others maybe not far enough.


It's just a matter of personal preference where that line is. Personally I enjoy the escapism of Bond, so I like the fun element as long as it doesn't undermine the story. I enjoy the serious side too, but Craig is too serious a Bond for me, and I think he falls so flat on the one liners where other Bonds would have eaten it up.

After the under-performance of the two Dalton movies, I'd say they wanted to bring more balance back to the franchise with Goldeneye, and I think they struck the perfect balance there. Not that I'm criticizing the Dalton movies, as I thought they were great, and thought he was a great Bond too, but I think the timing just wasn't right for Dalton or that style unfortunately.

It's been a while since I've seen many of the films so this is from memory and in no particular order for favourites-

The Spy Who Loved Me
Goldfinger
Goldeneye
License To Kill
Casino Royal or Skyfall

I didn't even intend for that to be basically one per Bond, but it ended up that way. :lol
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #452 on: November 01, 2015, 10:52:09 PM »
After the under-performance of the two Dalton movies, I'd say they wanted to bring more balance back to the franchise with Goldeneye, and I think they struck the perfect balance there. Not that I'm criticizing the Dalton movies, as I thought they were great, and thought he was a great Bond too, but I think the timing just wasn't right for Dalton or that style unfortunately.

Watching those movies now just feel like watching any generic 80s action movie. The Brosnan movies bought back some of the international spy movie feel, which gives them that feel of coming back to form. Then it got a little ridiculous with something seemingly blow up every 2 minutes, which is a by-product of our current movie-going Michael Bay, shaky-camera, explosions everywhere sensibilities. And it had to compete with Jason Bourne who let Bond know he wasn't the only spy in town.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #453 on: November 01, 2015, 10:57:42 PM »
I remember License to Kill better than The Living Daylights, but I don't think it felt like a generic '80s action movie, it was definitely more stripped back and serious though. But so was Casino Royale. I don't know, as I said, there's a lot of personal preference in where the line is with the balance of elements, given how many different interpretations we've had of the character now in 50+ years.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

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Re: The James Bond Thread
« Reply #454 on: November 02, 2015, 02:59:20 AM »
I think Dalton is the most underrated Bond. Especially License to Kill which essentially was almost 20 years before its time. It's a darker and more serious Bond, and much closer to the Craig-Bond than anything else we had seen at that point.