Musings on Old DT

[RandalGraves]

At least with those lyrics.

That's been my biggest problem with them from the beginning.  Why get all gruff at THAT point of the song?

Because it sounds "good."  Musically, it makes sense.  Lyrically . . . not so much.

[hefdaddy42]

At least with those lyrics.

That's been my biggest problem with them from the beginning.  Why get all gruff at THAT point of the song?

Because it sounds "good."  Musically, it makes sense.  Lyrically . . . not so much.

It doesn't sound "good" if it doesn't make sense lyrically.  That's what I'm saying.

[ariich]

Personally I think the fault at that part of the song lies with the lyrics. Ignoring the vocals entirely for a second, the music in that whole section is dark and heavy. The lyrics for the first 3/4 of it fit fine, but the last couple of lines simply do not. This has nothing to do with the vocals, the lyrics simply don't fit the music. Poor show from JP really, as even when he's off-form lyrically, his words still tend to fit the music.

[hefdaddy42]

Personally I think the fault at that part of the song lies with the lyrics. Ignoring the vocals entirely for a second, the music in that whole section is dark and heavy. The lyrics for the first 3/4 of it fit fine, but the last couple of lines simply do not. This has nothing to do with the vocals, the lyrics simply don't fit the music. Poor show from JP really, as even when he's off-form lyrically, his words still tend to fit the music.

That just shows that the whole section doesn't work as a finished product, thereby reducing the overall quality of the song as a whole.

[ReaPsTA]

I had a thought - what if the lyrics were changed to this:

How can you prepare for what would happen next?
No son should ever have to see his father such a mess
It's a miracle he lived
It's a blessing no one died
By the Grace of God above
Everyone survived

Day after day
And night after night
Replaying the events
Did they ever see the red light?
Over and over
Scene by scene
Like a recurring nightmare haunting my dreams.

Still not great, but it at least works.

[ariich]

Personally I think the fault at that part of the song lies with the lyrics. Ignoring the vocals entirely for a second, the music in that whole section is dark and heavy. The lyrics for the first 3/4 of it fit fine, but the last couple of lines simply do not. This has nothing to do with the vocals, the lyrics simply don't fit the music. Poor show from JP really, as even when he's off-form lyrically, his words still tend to fit the music.

That just shows that the whole section doesn't work as a finished product, thereby reducing the overall quality of the song as a whole.

Indeed, which is a shame as the rest of the song is seriously good. But as it's only half a minute it doesn't bother me much.

Reap, it definitely works a little better that way round, though not much. The music for the whole section is pretty dark and heavy. The uplifting lyrics just don't really fit at all.

[hefdaddy42]

Personally I think the fault at that part of the song lies with the lyrics. Ignoring the vocals entirely for a second, the music in that whole section is dark and heavy. The lyrics for the first 3/4 of it fit fine, but the last couple of lines simply do not. This has nothing to do with the vocals, the lyrics simply don't fit the music. Poor show from JP really, as even when he's off-form lyrically, his words still tend to fit the music.

That just shows that the whole section doesn't work as a finished product, thereby reducing the overall quality of the song as a whole.

Indeed, which is a shame as the rest of the song is seriously good. But as it's only half a minute it doesn't bother me much.

Well, for me it's much longer than half a minute.  I think the majority of the song following the Beautiful Agony section is superfluous and unnecessary.  I actually think the song would work better if the "story" was wrapped up sooner, and the section featuring MP's vocals served as background for a solo, and then end the song.  IMHO, of course.

[ariich]

Fair enough. Actually I'm not a big fan of the solos because, by their standards, they're just not very interesting, but the rest of the instrumental stuff I love.

[ReaPsTA]

Fair enough. Actually I'm not a big fan of the solos because, by their standards, they're just not very interesting, but the rest of the instrumental stuff I love.

Once the Beautiful Agony section ends, ANTR doesn't have any emotional through-lines leading from section to section. Some of the sections sound cool, but they don't mean anything.

[hefdaddy42]

^That^

[ariich]

Fair enough. Actually I'm not a big fan of the solos because, by their standards, they're just not very interesting, but the rest of the instrumental stuff I love.

Once the Beautiful Agony section ends, ANTR doesn't have any emotional through-lines leading from section to section. Some of the sections sound cool, but they don't mean anything.

Oh definitely, but then I don't think every minute of every song requires that either. But I can certainly understand why people might like that stuff less.

[ReaPsTA]

Oh definitely, but then I don't think every minute of every song requires that either. But I can certainly understand why people might like that stuff less.

But I really feel like songs need to be consistent about their emotional content. Something like Raw Dog announces itself as purely an attempt at being heavy in a semi-logical manner. You're in or out.

ANTR does this weird switch halfway through though where it gives up on peaks and valleys of emotional level and just does the semi-logically connected riffs. Obviously, part of what can make a song good is varying the level of emotion in music creates contrast, flow, and hopefully story. But going from intense emotion at the end of the Beautiful Agony section to an almost emotionless solo section still just doesn't work for me one bit.

[ariich]

Yeah I agree about the solo section somewhat, although I don't find it as out of place or disjointed as some people seem to, as I think it fits in with what was going on at the start of the song. My main issue with it is that the solos just aren't very good.

I get what you're saying though, and like I said, I can understand why some people might not be fans of the last 1/3 of the song.

[hefdaddy42]

Stop being so fucking agreeable, ariich.

[ariich]

Stop being so fucking agreeable, ariich.

Yeah I probably should be more confrontational.

[hefdaddy42]

 

[ariich]

[Kyo]

Yeah, Puppies On Acid was around forever, but as far as I know, that's the only thing they had in any great detail before the writing sessions.

I don't know what was around before then and didn't get played live, but
in addition to Puppies on Acid there was also the whole classical guitar
section of Erotomania that was re-used from an old Pull Me Under demo.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I know this is really random but...

In the Petrucci interview Mojo did, it cuts to the "Afterlife" unison toward the end. That's another example of a really catchy, hooky complex part.

[contest_sanity]

I know this is really random but...

In the Petrucci interview Mojo did, it cuts to the "Afterlife" unison toward the end. That's another example of a really catchy, hooky complex part.

I've always loved 'Afterlife,' ever since first listening to that cd way back when.  I'm glad they brought it out at RCMH for a little more exposure.  And you're right about the catchiness + complexity factor; that's what makes it superb!!

[j]

I know this is really random but...

In the Petrucci interview Mojo did, it cuts to the "Afterlife" unison toward the end. That's another example of a really catchy, hooky complex part.

I've always loved 'Afterlife,' ever since first listening to that cd way back when.  I'm glad they brought it out at RCMH for a little more exposure.  And you're right about the catchiness + complexity factor; that's what makes it superb!!

It may be the best song on WDADU.

-J

[hefdaddy42]

I know this is really random but...

In the Petrucci interview Mojo did, it cuts to the "Afterlife" unison toward the end. That's another example of a really catchy, hooky complex part.

I've always loved 'Afterlife,' ever since first listening to that cd way back when.  I'm glad they brought it out at RCMH for a little more exposure.  And you're right about the catchiness + complexity factor; that's what makes it superb!!

It may be the best song on WDADU.

-J

Really?  Astonishing.

I must admit, I've never understood the love for this song.  But hey, that's cool.

[LordCaptainMcKlockenstein]

IMO, it's one of the few songs on WDaDU where Dominici sounds fairly/really good. That goes a long way towards making it really good for me.

[emindead]

What about it? 

That it was almost completely written before JLB got into the band. There wasn't any writing sessions in this case.

[j]

I know this is really random but...

In the Petrucci interview Mojo did, it cuts to the "Afterlife" unison toward the end. That's another example of a really catchy, hooky complex part.

I've always loved 'Afterlife,' ever since first listening to that cd way back when.  I'm glad they brought it out at RCMH for a little more exposure.  And you're right about the catchiness + complexity factor; that's what makes it superb!!

It may be the best song on WDADU.

-J

Really?  Astonishing.

I must admit, I've never understood the love for this song.  But hey, that's cool.

Yeah, OAMOT is the only other real contender for me.  Although I enjoy most of the rest of the album as well, which seems to be rare around here.

The solo and ensuing unison in Afterlife are my favorite parts.

-J

[KevShmev]

I think "Afterlife" is quite good, but I don't think it is close to as good as "Only a Matter of Time," "Ytse Jam" or "Light Fuse and Get Away."  Just my two cents. 

[contest_sanity]

I think "Afterlife" is quite good, but I don't think it is close to as good as "Only a Matter of Time," "Ytse Jam" or "Light Fuse and Get Away."  Just my two cents. 

Now there's a song that doesn't seem to get much love, but I really like it.  Not quite as much as 'Afterlife,' but still a great song.

[TAC]

There was something special and electric about Afterlife's performance on Score. I mean we've all heard it plenty of times, even live versions. Since that performance, it seems to have really gained a second life.

[Dublagent66]

There was something special and electric about Afterlife's performance on Score. I mean we've all heard it plenty of times, even live versions. Since that performance, it seems to have really gained a second life.

I never really appreciated Afterlife until the Score performance.  Good song.

[bosk1]

Personally I think the fault at that part of the song lies with the lyrics. Ignoring the vocals entirely for a second, the music in that whole section is dark and heavy. The lyrics for the first 3/4 of it fit fine, but the last couple of lines simply do not. This has nothing to do with the vocals, the lyrics simply don't fit the music. Poor show from JP really, as even when he's off-form lyrically, his words still tend to fit the music.

That just shows that the whole section doesn't work as a finished product, thereby reducing the overall quality of the song as a whole.

Indeed, which is a shame as the rest of the song is seriously good. But as it's only half a minute it doesn't bother me much.

Reap, it definitely works a little better that way round, though not much. The music for the whole section is pretty dark and heavy. The uplifting lyrics just don't really fit at all.

But the lyrics are not uplifting at all.  I'm sorry, but if you think they are, you are missing the point of that section.  

Yeah, Puppies On Acid was around forever, but as far as I know, that's the only thing they had in any great detail before the writing sessions.

I don't know what was around before then and didn't get played live, but
in addition to Puppies on Acid there was also the whole classical guitar
section of Erotomania that was re-used from an old Pull Me Under demo.

Yes, indeed.  I had forgotten about that.  Good catch.

What about it?  

That it was almost completely written before JLB got into the band. There wasn't any writing sessions in this case.

Yes, but that fact still has nothing whatsoever to do with what I said, hence my question.  

IMO, it's one of the few songs on WDaDU where Dominici sounds fairly/really good. That goes a long way towards making it really good for me.

I think that could possibly be because he wrote the vocal melody.  At least, I'm assuming he did since he wrote the lyrics.  And if that is the case, he would have most likely at least somewhat written to his own strengths in terms of phrasing, note choice, etc.  That's my guess anyway, for what it's worth.

I just posed the question to Charlie on his forum to see whether he can shed any light:  https://www.dominici.com/forum/index.php?topic=407.0

[TAC]

Bosk, you better not let Samsara see that first sentence. He's going to get out the "red pen of death"!

[bosk1]

[emindead]

What about it? 

That it was almost completely written before JLB got into the band. There wasn't any writing sessions in this case.

Yes, but that fact still has nothing whatsoever to do with what I said, hence my question. 

You said: "that's the only thing [Puppies on Acid] they had in any great detail before the writing sessions." Were you referring only to Awake? Because I thought you were talking about in general. Not only Puppies on Acid was written in great detail before Awake writing session, but also Images & Words.

[bosk1]

No, the point was, Puppies on Acid was the only thing they brought with them to the Awake sessions.  (other than, as was pointed out above, part of Erotomania, which I had forgotten about)

[TAC]

I saw him correct someone's spelling in a thread the other day.