Next Tour - What album do you want represented more?

[setrataeso]

So, on the Black Clouds tour, we got an unusual album representation. Few songs from Images & Words (Only Take the Time was semi-regular, and PMU and Metropolis made occasional appearances) and more than usual from Awake (The Mirror, Lie, Erotomania, Voices got played a lot).

So, whether or not the next tour will be for the next album, what past album(s) do you guys want to see represented more?

Personally, I'd like to see the return of some Scenes from a Memory songs. We got TDOE and One Last Time recently. But some more songs from SFAM would be awesome on the next tour.

[bosk1]

So, on the Black Clouds tour, we got an unusual album representation.

What does this mean?

As for the question in the thread title, I don't really care much.  DT do a pretty good job of showcasing their new material while still giving a good sampling of their past material, so I find it hard to complain much. 

[antigoon]

Falling Into Infinity!!!

ANNA LEE!

[Nick]

I'd like to see something from When Dream and Day Unite, Don't Look Past Me, and a few lesser played tracks/b-sides from Falling Into Infinity.

[setrataeso]

So, on the Black Clouds tour, we got an unusual album representation.

What does this mean?

As for the question in the thread title, I don't really care much.  DT do a pretty good job of showcasing their new material while still giving a good sampling of their past material, so I find it hard to complain much.  

Usually, we barely get one or two songs from Awake, while Images and Words will usually get at least two every night.
BCSL, had Awake represented with 2-4 songs every night, while Images and Words would sometimes get no songs in a setlist.
That's unusual in comparison to past tours.

[Quadrochosis]

I'd like to see something from When Dream and Day Unite, Don't Look Past Me, and a few lesser played tracks/b-sides from Falling Into Infinity.

This. Also more from scenes.

[juice]

i missed a show where they played the erotomania/voices combo so i want to see that again , 12 step suite, six degrees(album)

[bosk1]

So, on the Black Clouds tour, we got an unusual album representation.

What does this mean?

As for the question in the thread title, I don't really care much.  DT do a pretty good job of showcasing their new material while still giving a good sampling of their past material, so I find it hard to complain much. 

Usually, we barely get one or two songs from Awake, while Images and Words will usually get at least two every night.
BCSL, had Awake represented with 2-4 songs every night, while Images and Words would sometimes get no songs in a setlist.
That's unusual in comparison to past tours.

Since the Six Degrees tour, I have seen them 5 times (and did not see them on the BCSL/PN tour), and I have gotten the following:
WDADU:  1
I&W:  8
Awake:  8
FII:  7
SFAM:  9
SDOIT:  9 (counting separate movements of SDOIT as "songs" for purposes of this thread simply because they were played as separate entities for these shows)
TOT:  5
8VM:  1
SC:  3 (4 if you separately count both parts of ITPOE)
I have also seen instrumedly 3 times out of those shows, and Schedley Wilcox.  I did not include anything from a medley in the above numbers.

So, really, they've represented their albums pretty well in the shows I have seen supporting the last 5 of their 10 total albums.  The only albums that feel a bit underrepresented to me are WDADU and 8VM, and it's not like they haven't played songs from those albums a lot at other shows during the same time period.  But still, my point is just that, from the perspective of one fan who has seen a few shows over the years, their catalog feels pretty well represented to me.

[robwebster]

I agree with both bosk and setra.

Yes, their setlists represent their back-catalogue pretty well, which is wonderful and fantastic and we all love Mike Portnoy except the ones who don't, but your experience is kind of a mean average. Which we're not really talking about, 'spesh as it doesn't include any from the last world tour.  Which, I think setra's saying, had a bit of an odd slant. As they all did, sure, but BCSL in particular, I feel.

Er, for example... this tour around, Images and Words didn't get much of a look-in. Sometimes they were playing three or four Awake songs per night. There were some setlists with absolutely no pre-Jordan material - zero. Zilch.

I loved the fact the song choices were a bit odd. But, they were exactly that. A bit odd.  BCSL had a different mix and quite a distinctive flavour. Not necessarily an even mix, but a very cool mix. Which is good. If they didn't make some weird choices, their setlists would cease to be surprising.

I'd love to hear FII and Octavarium represented a bit more. Six Degrees, too. Can never have enough Six Degrees.

[setrataeso]

There were some setlists with absolutely no pre-Jordan material - zero. Zilch.

Yeah, the Montreal show I went to had only Hollow Years as a pre-Jordan song.

[Perpetual Change]

I can see what the OP means about the weird representation, though.  Some shows didn't play ANY pre-Scenes material AT ALL.  I'm always happy to see DT, but I do think that was pretty weird.

[bosk1]

Good points, Rob.  From that perspective, it's hard for me to answer.  On one hand, I'd love more 8VM.  But they're probably going to give Panic Attack a rest since it's been in heavy rotation, 8VM is too long to play in its entirety (although I know they've done their longer songs quite a few times), SS got heavy rotation, so it's probably out, and I don't really care to hear the remaining songs, save These Walls.

WDADU was pretty underrepresented at my shows as well, but there are only a few songs I would really want to hear.  I dunno.  It's just really hard for me to say I want to hear an album I want to hear represented more.  There are certainly individual songs I haven't seen that I would love to see played.  But as far as albums, nothing really comes to mind (other than BCSL simply because I've seen nothing from it).

Oh, and as far as the sets being odd on the last tour, I really didn't notice.  Since I had no real interest in seeing them on the PN tour, I didn't pay a LOT of attention to the sets.

[The Letter M]

I'm also going to have to go with Falling Into Infinity. And maybe some lesser-played tracks from Awake (which really only leaves "Lifting Shadows Off A Dream" and "The Silent Man" [what tour was that last played?]...oh, and "6:00" of course!).

Of course, there's fan-favorites from FII like "Anna Lee" which would be FINALLY great to hear... oh, and "Take Away My Pain '96"!!!

-Marc.

[setrataeso]

Good points, Rob.  From that perspective, it's hard for me to answer.  On one hand, I'd love more 8VM.  But they're probably going to give Panic Attack a rest since it's been in heavy rotation, 8VM is too long to play in its entirety (although I know they've done their longer songs quite a few times), SS got heavy rotation, so it's probably out, and I don't really care to hear the remaining songs, save These Walls.

WDADU was pretty underrepresented at my shows as well, but there are only a few songs I would really want to hear.  I dunno.  It's just really hard for me to say I want to hear an album I want to hear represented more.  There are certainly individual songs I haven't seen that I would love to see played.  But as far as albums, nothing really comes to mind (other than BCSL simply because I've seen nothing from it).

Oh, and as far as the sets being odd on the last tour, I really didn't notice.  Since I had no real interest in seeing them on the PN tour, I didn't pay a LOT of attention to the sets.

Well, I didn't find the setlists odd really. It was just the distribution of songs was a bit out of the ordinary for Dream Theater. This was really the first tour where they focused more heavily on the middle/newer side of their career and played their older stuff in more staggered amounts.

For instance, my show in Montreal got:
A Nightmare to Remember (new)
A Rite of Passage (new)
Hollow Years (old/middle)
Prophets of War (new)
The Dance of Eternity (middle)
One Last Time (middle)
Solitary Shell (middle)
As I Am (middle/new)
The Count of Tuscany (new)

The only song there that could be considered old and the only one pre-Jordan is Hollow Years. Other venues got more songs from Awake (especially the later tours in Europe and Australia, where Awake songs were very common). Erotomania/Voices got played 40 times on PN09, Take the Time, Metropolis, and Pull Me Under got played 15, 14, and 11 times, respectively.
I guess, after doing the tourography archive, I saw how much more I&W songs get played versus Awake songs, so for me this tour's setlists were a bit unusual.

[contest_sanity]

FII and TOT.  I have only seen DT on the last 2 PN tours and all I got was 'As I Am' and a snippet of 'Trial Of Tears.'  Of course, a lot of it is the luck of the draw, so those albums may have been more highly represented overall than what I happened to see.  Specifics would include:

Peruvian Skies
Just Let Me Breathe
Anna Lee
This Dying Soul
Endless Sacrifice
Honor Thy Father

I know 'Lines In The Sand' and 'In The Name Of God' are perhaps less likely because they've been played extremely recently, but I'd love to hear those too.

[LCArenas]

Well...

• More ToT
• More 6DoiT

• MOAR FII

(Edit: Specially FII Demos )

[bosk1]

I know I've said this before, but I really hope they'll do The Glass Prison->Shattered Fortress suite at most of the shows as sort of a mini-12-step suite.  That'd satisfy my SDOIT fix.  Even though it's my favorite album, I actually don't really care to here much of it at a show since I've had such a good dose of it over the years between the shows I've seen and the DT live releases.

[kirbywelch92]

I could be completely wrong on this (and more than likely am considering my live experience is only covered by live DVD's), but it seems that DT, or Mike Portnoy I suppose, adapts the setlist based on the material released on the newest album. BC&SL was a fairly heavy album, so maybe that felt Awake was similar in its style. In the same respect, the ToT tour was considerably heavier due to the louder material on the album at the time.

But, like I said, I'm probably wrong.

[Samsara]

So, on the Black Clouds tour, we got an unusual album representation. Few songs from Images & Words (Only Take the Time was semi-regular, and PMU and Metropolis made occasional appearances) and more than usual from Awake (The Mirror, Lie, Erotomania, Voices got played a lot).

So, whether or not the next tour will be for the next album, what past album(s) do you guys want to see represented more?

Personally, I'd like to see the return of some Scenes from a Memory songs. We got TDOE and One Last Time recently. But some more songs from SFAM would be awesome on the next tour.

I think the entire non-JR catalog should be more represented. I did not attend the Progressive Nation tour, but a friend did, who saw the Merriweather Pavilion show and he said the set list did not have one pre-Jordan song on it. To me, that is EPIC FAIL.

Given that DT's songs have gotten longer, I think each tour they should focus on two albums (for the most part). If they are promoting a record, play two songs from it (given that they are usually 10 minutes plus, that's a healthy dose of new material). Then play a few tunes from specific older albums.

Next tour, I'd go with Awake and Six Degrees. Do four songs each from those. If they average about 10 minutes per track (obviously some longer, some shorter), that's 80 minutes. Then use the next 40 minutes to play four or five songs from the rest of the catalog.

Next tour, change the two albums up. Then do I&W and Scenes, or FII and ToT, just like that. That's the best way to keep the variety in there, IMO.

[robwebster]

I could be completely wrong on this (and more than likely am considering my live experience is only covered by live DVD's), but it seems that DT, or Mike Portnoy I suppose, adapts the setlist based on the material released on the newest album. BC&SL was a fairly heavy album, so maybe that felt Awake was similar in its style. In the same respect, the ToT tour was considerably heavier due to the louder material on the album at the time.

But, like I said, I'm probably wrong.

No, I like that. He does tend to go for a "vibe." Like, when they were supporting Yes, they played proggier stuff. BCSL was heavy but not self-indulgent. It was kind of... classy, for want of a better word. Not quite formal, but it had a sort of elegance and discipline. It's very hard to define, but there was a certain polished, confident sheen. Heavy but not raw. Awake has that, too, to an extent.

[setrataeso]

I could be completely wrong on this (and more than likely am considering my live experience is only covered by live DVD's), but it seems that DT, or Mike Portnoy I suppose, adapts the setlist based on the material released on the newest album. BC&SL was a fairly heavy album, so maybe that felt Awake was similar in its style. In the same respect, the ToT tour was considerably heavier due to the louder material on the album at the time.

But, like I said, I'm probably wrong.

No, I like that. He does tend to go for a "vibe." Like, when they were supporting Yes, they played proggier stuff. BCSL was heavy but not self-indulgent. It was kind of... classy, for want of a better word. Not quite formal, but it had a sort of elegance and discipline. It's very hard to define, but there was a certain polished, confident sheen. Heavy but not raw. Awake has that, too, to an extent.

Not like Raw Dog?

[Perpetual Change]

Given that DT's songs have gotten longer, I think each tour they should focus on two albums (for the most part). If they are promoting a record, play two songs from it (given that they are usually 10 minutes plus, that's a healthy dose of new material). Then play a few tunes from specific older albums.

I completely disagree with this.

Focusing on playing at least half (if not more) of the new stuff is something bands should do simply to stay relevant.  That's what's kept Iron Maiden alive, and the majority of DT fans really want to hear the new stuff.  It's not like Yes or QR, where while they might have a new album out, no one at the show really cares.

[TAC]

Focusing on playing at least half (if not more) of the new stuff is something bands should do simply to stay relevant.  That's what's kept Iron Maiden alive,

..and Rush, who does the same thing.

Personally, I wouldn't want to see a tour that focuses on a couple albums. I'd rather a song from each. That way if you miss a tour, you stil get that variety.

[Perpetual Change]

Focusing on playing at least half (if not more) of the new stuff is something bands should do simply to stay relevant.  That's what's kept Iron Maiden alive,

..and Rush, who does the same thing.

Personally, I wouldn't want to see a tour that focuses on a couple albums. I'd rather a song from each. That way if you miss a tour, you stil get that variety.

When you're playing 2 hrs a night, I don't see how at least 40 minutes of new stuff is going to offend anyone

[Samsara]

Guys, you miss the point. Other bands (like Maiden) can do that, because their songs are "normal" length. DT's are not. It's a completely different ballgame.

If DT played six songs from an album, they'd be at like 65 minutes. That's more than half of a normal headline show. DT can't do that due to song length.

[Perpetual Change]

I don't think I missed the point.  Most of Iron Maiden's newer songs have been in the 8 minute range, and anyway on the AMoLaD Tour Maiden played the whole album, so they were still playing like an hour or more of new stuff.

2 new songs from a band like DT, who are still putting out great albums, would be terrible.  If DT release an album that's nearly 80 minutes, I expect to hear at least 40 of it on a supporting tour.  Bands who only play 20 minutes of new stuff are the types of bands that admit they're pretty much done creatively, imo, and are just playing the songs people know and love from the 90s and 80s. Or 70s.

Nothing wrong with that, but DT still have too much left in 'em.

[LudwigVan]

WDADU, I&W, SFAM

[Samsara]

I don't think I missed the point.  Most of Iron Maiden's newer songs have been in the 8 minute range, and anyway on the AMoLaD Tour Maiden played the whole album, so they were still playing like an hour or more of new stuff.

2 new songs from a band like DT, who are still putting out great albums, would be terrible.  If DT release an album that's nearly 80 minutes, I expect to hear at least 40 of it on a supporting tour.  Bands who only play 20 minutes of new stuff are the types of bands that admit they're pretty much done creatively, imo, and are just playing the songs people know and love from the 90s and 80s. Or 70s.

Nothing wrong with that, but DT still have too much left in 'em.

PC - no, Maiden's songs are not 8 minutes, and even if they were, that still is on average, two minutes shorter than the average DT song. Seriously man, this is the hole DT painted itself into. They write these long ass tunes, but have figured out that they are stuck now, because two songs takes 20-25 minutes to get through.

THink about this. If a band dedicated 30 minutes of a two-hour headline set to its new album, you'd probably get five or six new tunes. If DT did that, you'd get TWO, MAYBE THREE. That's 1/4 of a band's entire time on stage.  Notice the difference?

You said you would want 40 minutes of an 80 minute album. Ok, then that leaves you with 80 more minutes of concert time. How many songs from DT is that? EIGHT. At most. So yo probably get 12 total songs for a concert...meaning EIGHT SONGS FROM THEIR ENTIRE BACK CATALOG. That is beyond ridiculous. The song length really derails getting more of the band's songs played.

I fully agree that a band should support its new material. Absolutely. But what I'm saying is, it is more difficult for DT to do that without alienating the other portion of the fanbase that wants to hear more of the older material. It's a TOUGHER balance for DT, and frankly, as a fan that doesn't like their newer material as much, folks like me get the shaft sometimes.

[KevShmev]

Eh, even though they still play some songs way too often that I think should be put to sleep forever (Hello "Constant Motion"!), they usually do a good job of mixing the set lists up, with a good mixture of new and old stuff, along with songs from the album they are touring on.  Sure, some shows will have more of one of the eras, but, by and large, if you go to a DT show, you are most likely gonna get some old stuff and some new stuff.  

My biggest thing would be is, when they bring back a song that hasn't been played in a while, play it at every show on that tour, that way, fans in every city get a chance to see this rarely-played song, instead of it being a rarely-played song played in only a few select cities.

[hefdaddy42]

Samsara, the points you are arguing aren't really points that bother most DT fans.  I know that if I went to a DT show that was supporting a new album, and only got 2 songs from the new album, I'd be a little pissed.

Generally speaking, we know they play long songs, and we like it that way.  This is why the "Evening With" format was perfect for them.  Their biggest mistake was going away from that for several years (although I understand why they did that).  Your estimate of 12 songs seems fine to me for one of their recent shorter shows.  But on the "Evening With" shows, you could routinely get 18 songs depending on the set list.

[Samsara]

Samsara, the points you are arguing aren't really points that bother most DT fans.  I know that if I went to a DT show that was supporting a new album, and only got 2 songs from the new album, I'd be a little pissed.

Generally speaking, we know they play long songs, and we like it that way.  This is why the "Evening With" format was perfect for them.  Their biggest mistake was going away from that for several years (although I understand why they did that).  Your estimate of 12 songs seems fine to me for one of their recent shorter shows.  But on the "Evening With" shows, you could routinely get 18 songs depending on the set list.

Actually I don't disagree with the "Evening With" format in regard to the number of songs played. But it's like DT HAS TO play "Evening With" shows in order to get a larger sample size of older songs.

I don't necessarily have a problem with long songs at all. Hell, most of my favorite DT songs are long ones. But song length makes it difficult to provide fans with a large sample size unless you play a 3+ hour show, which can get burdensome.

It makes it difficult, say for instance the example I gave with PN09 at the Merriweather Pavilion...hello, no pre-JR material? WTF? Like it or not, Images and Words and Awake (along with SFAM) remain DT's most popular albums for the MAJORITY of fans.

There aren't just FANS here at DTF. People who post here are FANATICS. There are only 3,500 people here, half of which actually post. That's TINY in comparison to the crowds in each city. So using "we" in the context of fans at large is not really accurate, hef.

[Samsara]

My biggest thing would be is, when they bring back a song that hasn't been played in a while, play it at every show on that tour, that way, fans in every city get a chance to see this rarely-played song, instead of it being a rarely-played song played in only a few select cities.

Agreed.

[Perpetual Change]

You said you would want 40 minutes of an 80 minute album. Ok, then that leaves you with 80 more minutes of concert time. How many songs from DT is that? EIGHT. At most. So yo probably get 12 total songs for a concert...meaning EIGHT SONGS FROM THEIR ENTIRE BACK CATALOG. That is beyond ridiculous. The song length really derails getting more of the band's songs played.

I don't see how it's ridiculous at all.  It's about how long they play, not how many songs there actually are.  If most DT fans gave a crap about the "number" or songs rather than the amount of music, albums like BC&SL wouldn't be doing so well. To be honest, I'm not sure what the "number" of songs has to do with anything.  

I really think this IS just another example of the minority of fans, like you, who don't like the new stuff AT ALL getting the shaft.  It sucks, I can sympathize, but a band like DT that's actually playing progressively bigger shows and releasing progressively better selling albums has no reason do devote ANY less than 1/3rd of its set to supporting the new music.  If 1/3 means 3 songs off of a 9 song set, so be it! I don't see how whether they play 9 songs or 15 songs matters, as long as it's the same amount of music.

The only compromise I can think of is DT start doing what Maiden do- rotating support and back in time tours. But I'm not sure DT are big enough to make that work.

There aren't just FANS here at DTF. People who post here are FANATICS. There are only 3,500 people here, half of which actually post. That's TINY in comparison to the crowds in each city. So using "we" in the context of fans at large is not really accurate, hef.

And, lots of times, the people who post here are the ones with some kind of long-term connection with the band, aka the people who'd want to hear more old stuff.

There are plenty of newer bands I listen to and go to see live, but I don't post at their forums.  I only post here because I've been a fan of DT for so long, because I have that deeper connection with the music.

[robwebster]

Aye. I mean, even if you don't enjoy their current output, you can't deny that it's still - possibly increasingly - relevant, which is a feat after 20 years. They'd be mental not to play a fair chunk of it.

[Samsara]

I don't see how it's ridiculous at all.  It's about how long they play, not how many songs there actually are.  If most DT fans gave a crap about the "number" or songs rather than the amount of music, albums like BC&SL wouldn't be doing so well. To be honest, I'm not sure what the "number" of songs has to do with anything.  

Disagree. The number of songs means the VARIETY OF TUNES. Listen, I would rather listen to 20 songs from a band, rather than 12. By default, because some of Dream Theater's songs are very long, it's really hard to get a good variety. I'm not one of those fans that sits and just likes to watch the band play. I like the different moods and soundscapes of the separate songs. So for me (and many others), it is important not just how long DT plays, but the variety of different songs in their catalog that they perform at each show.

I really think this IS just another example of the minority of fans, like you, who don't like the new stuff AT ALL getting the shaft.  It sucks, I can sympathize, but a band like DT that's actually playing progressively bigger shows and releasing progressively better selling albums has no reason do devote ANY less than 1/3rd of its set to supporting the new music.  If 1/3 means 3 songs off of a 9 song set, so be it! I don't see how whether they play 9 songs or 15 songs matters, as long as it's the same amount of music.

DT isn't playing bigger places. That has slowed down. And album sales have been the same lately as well. But you misspeak. I didn't say I didn't like the new stuff "AT ALL." I do like some of the "new" stuff, but not much after ToT.

It matters (the songs) from what I said above.

And, lots of times, the people who post here are the ones with some kind of long-term connection with the band, aka the people who'd want to hear more old stuff.

There are plenty of newer bands I listen to and go to see live, but I don't post at their forums.  I only post here because I've been a fan of DT for so long, because I have that deeper connection with the music.

Dude, the sample size here at DTF is NOTHING in comparison to the "average" DT fan. No one that posts here is an "average" fan. People who come to DT's shows aren't just everyone here. There are easily 100s of thousands of fans that aren't here who want to hear DT do older material more. The folks who were there in 1989 and all the way through the 1990s. Some of them want to hear the songs they love. They WANT to hear Metropolis, Surrounded, Learning to Live, Wait for Sleep, Lie, You Not Me, the singles, and the songs that got a lot of radio exposure....the older stuff.

But DT's style of writing these long drawn out songs has a downside. It limits the number of songs they can actually play in one concert. While MP does a GREAT job of rotating the set lists, when you have an experience like that PN09 Merriweather show, where nothing before 1999 was played, it is downright frustrating and frankly, wrong.