Author Topic: How do you write lyrics?  (Read 2802 times)

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Offline Gwii

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How do you write lyrics?
« on: February 28, 2010, 11:39:14 PM »
What is your method/thought process for writing lyrics?  I've been trying to work on some lately, since I'm going to be singing in my new band, but I really have trouble starting and coming up with things.  I've never had to write lyrics in the past, so this is somewhat new for me.

All I have so far is a verse to a song.  I like what I have, but I'm completely stumped on what else to add.


Input/advice would be appreciated.
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Offline ZBomber

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2010, 11:45:14 PM »
Theres a ton of different methods. Personally, for my band, I write the lyrics and then my friend creates the vocal melodies. However, there have been some cases where the music has been written, and then I try to mold existing lyrics to it, or create new ones.

So, I guess the important question is: are you gonna have lyrics before the music, or music before the lyrics?

Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2010, 11:46:11 PM »
My advice would be meditation. Clear your mind and focus on the subject material of the song your writing lyrics for. Write down ideas, be it sentences, words, etc.

If you are having trouble rhyming, look for other words with similar meanings in a Thesaurus.

.. I can't really think of anything else. Just don't focus too hard, and let your thoughts flow without trying too hard.
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Offline Gwii

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2010, 11:46:35 PM »
The music is already done, so music before lyrics.
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Offline ZBomber

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2010, 11:54:07 PM »
The music is already done, so music before lyrics.

I've only tried this method once, but it seems to work pretty well (and I think Jon Anderson has done it too, based on some demos I've heard)... try just humming or saying non-sensical things over the music to form a loose vocal melody. From there, you'll have a pretty good idea of how many syllables you can fit into each part of the song. This also probably depends on the genre of music... for example I don't think humming would be the best way to go if this is death metal. :p As for the actual lyrics themselves, I would suggest just writing down some thoughts in paragraph form, not worrying about the structure of it. From there, pick some of your favorite lines, and mold it to the structure you established earlier.

Ofcourse, this might not be helpful at all. There are so many different ways to do it that this might not be the best one for you personally. Just gotta mess around I guess until you find a method that works. Sorry I can't be of more help!

Offline Gwii

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2010, 11:57:43 PM »
The style is like groove-based rock, so it's pretty open for vocal melodies.  I'll try your suggestion though.

I think my problem is I focus too much on trying to get things right the first time.  I'll try writing out a bunch of stuff without worrying about structure and lines.
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Offline robwebster

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2010, 04:25:15 AM »
I like to use a pen.

Myself, I tend to come up with a message, or a thought that I want to elaborate on, and then I obscure it with silly metaphors about space travel or whatnot.

Or, I wait until I've got something I actually want to express, and I just write something down. Even if it's shit, it's a starting point, and you'll keep working on it because it's something I'm interested in. But "sit and wait" isn't an option, here, naturally.



Hmm. If someone came up to me, right now, and said "Right, write some lyrics," then I'd probably do something like this...

A. Sit and rack my brains for thirty minutes or so for good subjects. I've got a few themes that I use relatively frequently, usually based on lost love or frustration or something along those lines. Usually relatively sleazy, actually. I like a bit of sleaze. Selfish, too, but that's fine. It's a selfish art.

Outside of the cliches, let's look at the world. It's a fantastic, summery-looking day, today - the first in what feels like about a year! - so "emerging from the darkness" seems like a good song. I tend to suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder, so the changing of the seasons has a bit of extra significance for me. Plus, I've got a really annoying sore throat, which is taking me out of action for a bit. So, being out of action also seems appropriate. (There we go, that's a kind of frustration. I told you! I'm a two-trick pony. Frustration and lost love.)

Keep in mind it doesn't have to be profound. One day I was on this bus and I was getting really grumpy because it was going very slowly and I was coming to the end of a long journey and I just wanted to get on with it, and it was absolutely scorching, so I just wrote a song about that. Yes, I wrote a song about being hot on a bus. Seriously, anything goes.

So there we go.

- Lost love
- Frustration
- Emerging from the darkness
- Being out of action.

The first two are crutches, the latter two are things I've actually decided I'm inspired by, today. Tomorrow it'll probably be "life from the perspective of my dog" or something ridiculous like that.

Actually, that's not too bad.



B. Do any titles spring out?

I really, really like titles. I'm not sure why. I think I just like the idea of trying to sum up an entire piece of art in a handful of words. That's beautiful. I'm fascinated by the way they "shape" a piece, too. Or your perception of it, anyway. The song sounds the same, but when you change its name, you change the meaning you project onto it. That's massive power, and that fascinates me. A few small words suddenly gain a LOT of significance.

Like, take Danny Boyle's Sunshine. It's called Sunshine, and it sounds classy. If it were called "The Payload," it'd sound macho.  If I called it "Twats in Space," nobody would take it seriously.

It's even better when it adds something to a piece. If it's just a line from the lyrics, then who cares? You're just mirroring what you've already written. It adds emphasis, yes, but I like to try and think of something different. A completely different statement.

Here are some titles I've instantly thought up, based on my "Emerging from the Darkness" and "Ill and out of action" themes. I don't have any music to help inform these, but as you do, that'll (hopefully) make it even easier! You can go "ooh, that SOUNDS like a Maurice's Decision" (or whatever).

The Cave
Torn and Weathered
Glowing
Emerging from the Darkness
Vacation
The Catacombs
The Catacombs Are Behind Us
Through the Soil
Resolute
Into the Light
Winter Spirit

Out of Order
Breakdown
Sidelined
Sickness
Disabled
In the Waiting Line
Stand Still
Standstill
Pause
A Strategic Retreat


...etc. etc. etc. I could go on for about five years. There we go though, loads of different titles, all of which have different moods. Some are cheesy, some are over dramatic, some are boring and predictable, some are tacky. But that's fine, they don't have to be good. And, through doing that, I've already decided that I like the "Emerging from Darkness" theme the best. In fact, my favourite title is definitely The Catacombs. And hey would you look at that, I've gone from absolutely nothing, to having a starting point I'm happy with!



C. Write!

I can't really tell you what to write. It's your baby! BUT. I can tell you a few things that have helped me.

- You shouldn't be afraid to write a shit line. For example...
The catacombs are far behind us
Breathe the air

...that's hideous. I'd be ashamed of that even if I'd left it to fester in the deepest recesses of my mind, let alone now that I've put it on the internet for everyone to see. But hey! I don't have anything better, so I'd put it on paper for now. And it might inspire a new line that doesn't suck! About 80% of all lines I write suck. The gold is rare. But it's good. And the suck inspires the gold. So that's good. I've got it started, now.


- Don't be pretentious.
Nothing I hate more than people who try to overload their lyrics with long words. It doesn't make you look clever, and it just makes them hard to sing. Shorter words are actually better. They positively gleam with connotations, mood, feeling. "Ashamed" has so much more mood and says a LOT more than something like "pejorative."


- Not every line has to be a metaphor.
Seriously, unless you're an italian progressive metal band, you don't want to be harping on about "The crystal corners of my unanimous soul are at one with the universe, we fly through time and witness creation from a neon streetlight." It looks rubbish. On that note, avoid the words "sphere," "soul," "moonlight," "mind," "psyche" etc. etc. etc. They can be used well, but are usually shit.


- Don't bother fitting the lines to the music.
Heck, you don't even have to think about the music. I find that if I try to fit all the lines precisely to each section of music, I'm too busy writing stuff that fits, and less bothered about writing stuff that's good. Besides which, if I'm writing lyrics set exactly to the music, then that usually means that they come with the single most predictable vocal melody I can think of. Better to write the lyrics completely separately. In my experience, it leads to better words with more interesting melodies.


- Ignore all of the above.
I can't say I've ever gone "right, song... A. brainstorm sources of inspiration. B. possible titles! C. get a move on, thinking about the following criteria." It's all a matter of feeling and there is no guide. This is just how I'm feeling today - my ol' uninspired self. In fact, I've never written in this order before. Sure, it's a good idea, but it's a complete lie of an idea! I started by saying "this is what I would do," and then proceeded to write reams and reams of rules I've never followed before in my life! I'm not even sure where they came from. I never choose a title first, who the hell put that as step B!? Can't have been me. I remember typing it, but surely not.

Good rules, though. I like 'em. Proud of them. If you're gonna follow ANY rules, I'd be flattered. But my advice is, don't.

The above is just how I'm feeling today, of all days. Tomorrow on the other hand, I'll come up with a fantastic first line (and that'll be step A), and then I'll sit there chewing the end of my pen for about an hour trying to think of a follow-up, before giving up and making a coffee. And then maybe in a couple of weeks I'll go crazy and write a whole song at once! Punch out a whole thing in one fell swoop! Pow, in the can. Well, kind of. I'll be smug for the rest of the day, sure, but the day after that I'll go back and edit it all - probably with one hand over my eyes so I don't have to read it! And then I'll change its title five times. (Actually, I change titles a lot.) Seriously. Don't think too much. Just... go for it.







This is a massive post, but tbh I've just realised that I wrote something a lot more concise, a lot more sincere, and a lot more useful on MP.com a few months back.

Quote
It's difficult, but you don't need to have a lot of experience.

You just need something to say, and an interesting way of saying it. Pick words that have depth and feeling.

These words don't include "perspective," "sphere," "mind," "psyche," etc. etc. There's a tendency for people who try to write lyrics to write massive long things along the lines of "The winter of the mind haunts every corner / Is my life a transient miracle? / A mental fugue for chastity supreme" or whatever. Big words don't mean good lyrics, in fact they tend to lose a lot of meaning and soul. Not every line has to be run through the thesaurus. In fact, the more unnecessarily complex a song's lyrics are, the more I tend to cringe when reading them, and the less good they're going to sound when sung. They're a bad substitute for depth.

Just write about what you know.

Also, make sure you want to write about something.

Doesn't have to be anything profound, could be a silly story about a dentist, and if you want to write a song about a dentist then that's brilliant - you go and write that song. But if it's not a story that you want to tell then don't bother telling it.  You may as well just write nonsense. Hell, just write "barracuda, barracuda, barracuda, barracuda." It's better than writing something insincere just for the sake of having lyrics.
The bolded bit is particularly important.

Bah! I don't know. There's only so much I can say. This post is already far too massive and far too contrived. I was only planning on writing the first three paragraphs. I think I just enjoy typing. If you're doing it right, you'll read this post, disregard it, and do your own thing! But hopefully, if you're struggling, I've given you a few starting points.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 04:40:06 AM by robwebster »

Offline Gwii

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2010, 04:04:28 PM »
Haha thanks for that novel of a post.  If nothing else, it provides a good amount of perspective.  I found it helpful though.
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Offline skydivingninja

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2010, 05:29:31 PM »
I'm trying my hand at writing some stuff, and for me I usually have music written before lyrics, and when I'm writing, I have a vocal melody going in my head/written out.  There's one song where I wrote lyrics first, and I'm having a bit of trouble getting everything to fit.

Offline robwebster

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2010, 06:54:22 PM »
I'm trying my hand at writing some stuff, and for me I usually have music written before lyrics, and when I'm writing, I have a vocal melody going in my head/written out.  There's one song where I wrote lyrics first, and I'm having a bit of trouble getting everything to fit.
See, it can annoying, but I find that's a pretty healthy process, myself. "How can I say this in fewer words" is a fantastic discipline to get into. It gets you scrutinising your work, and means you have to fight to make every word count. No flim-flam. If you have to edit it, you end up having to justify each word to yourself. Which is brilliant. Like cutting a diamond.

Or, alternatively, it might mean you have to consider changing the vocal melody. Which, again, is pretty healthy in a similar way.

I mean, don't get me wrong. There are times when it's a massive pain in the arse - if you've got the perfect line but it sounds really forced, that's a horrendous crisis to be trapped in - but I think that kind of thing forces a writer into good habits.

Offline Gwii

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2010, 09:11:34 PM »
Ugh this is frustrating.

Music is 100% done, and I have no problem coming up with vocal melodies... I just can't think of anything to say!  For this particular song, I have the first verse done.  I'm having a lot of trouble with the chorus, because it's only a couple lines (either 2 or 4), so it needs to be kind of concise as well as memorable (as in, it kind of sums up the idea of the song).

/frustration
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Offline skydivingninja

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2010, 07:48:30 AM »
https://www.eilands.com/vjon/

Maybe this will help.  :biggrin:

Offline Failtality

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2010, 05:33:46 PM »
I think it was in an interview I watched, but I know Craig Mabbitt and Max Green just wrote down basically every thought they had, if they said something while playing Halo or something and it sounded good they'd write it down. After a while they looked through all the things they wrote down and picked out ones that they thought would work for songs and went from there... I've always felt that was a clever idea since I first heard it, but I've never had a real opportunity to try it myself.

Offline Marvellous G

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2010, 12:40:52 PM »
I have written about 100 songs I think are decent now, all with vocal melodies, but only about 2 have lyrics, and I'm ashamed of even those. I'm considering just hiring a lyricist, because I know even if I write a good set of lyrics, which is unlikely, I'll think they're bad even if they're not. Oh well.

Offline Global Laziness

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2010, 01:24:40 AM »
When I write lyrics, I generally just whip out a notebook and write whatever's in my mind or in my heart. My lyrics are generally very personal, and I tend to write whatever feels write. I don't worry about vocal melodies until much later.
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Offline antigoon

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2010, 08:47:47 AM »
I try to write lyrics and then I come to the conclusion that I'm void of emotion and give up :|

Offline Marvellous G

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2010, 03:22:32 PM »
I try to write lyrics and then I come to the conclusion that I'm void of emotion and give up :|

Offline Gwii

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2010, 10:09:39 PM »
I've been slowly getting better at writing lyrics.  It seems like I need a pretty strong source of inspiration (read: something really shitty going on in my life) to be able to write any, but I've gotten a few songs done since I started this thread.
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Offline MykeHavoc

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Re: How do you write lyrics?
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2010, 11:29:11 PM »
I've waited a few days to reply to this thread because I couldn't think of a reasonably concise way to respond. The truth is that I've written what feels like a million songs and they were compiled in many different ways. I am a musician as well as a singer, so when I write, typically I hear everything stacked up in my head. I then have to break it down and figure it out bit by bit until it matches. Lyrics and melody lines are done the same way. They're all part of the larger picture. Typically, if a word or phrase catches my eye or pops into my head, I write it down and hide it away until further inspiration hits. When the puzzle pieces start coming together, I look at what I have for a rough skeleton and then begin the process of truly shaping it into a song. I try as often as possible to write music and lyrics concurrently so that they develop an organic feel as opposed to music that is written with lyrics just plopped in that happen to fit. I prefer the music to reflect the lyrics and vice versa. But from time to time, the inspiration works one way more then the other. I'll write lyrics in almost a poem format with a consistent structure, and then look into my library of riffs and again start the process of piecing together everything. It really can go a number of ways. I like to experiment and try as many ways as possible though so as not to limit myself. But I tend to gravitate towards those few patterns due to comfort and success.