Author Topic: The Official Alter Bridge Thread v. PAWNS & KINGS  (Read 256495 times)

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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #350 on: December 10, 2010, 06:13:50 PM »
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So I gave most of the album a once through.

OK.

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Some really great ideas in there, like really great. However almost every chorus turned into a generic tremonti chorus and lost my interest. Also the production leaves something to be desired.

Like what?

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It's sad they can't write another chorus.

Which ones are you talking about?


Frankly, I don't even believe that you own the album or have actually listened to most of it. And now, at best, you'll scurry on to youtube or download it quickly just to provide examples to back up your original point  ;D
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 01:36:00 AM by Perpetual Change »

Offline Adami

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #351 on: December 10, 2010, 06:20:04 PM »
I do have the album. I have listened to most of it, as I said. One time. Except Isolation I heard a few times before the album came out.


I have every single creed album and the other two AB albums, most of which I'm very fond of. Tremonti/Phillips/Marshall are one of my favorite music writing trios.

However, out of those 7 albums, they have 2 or so chorus styles that they repeat over....and over.....and over. The vocals change, but the music stays the same.



Regarding the production, the guitar tone isn't as good as it has been for the heavy riffs (though it sounds fine when he's strumming chords...which unfortunatly he is doing like 80% of the album). The snare is a bit...I dunno, just not as good as it has been. While the kick drums are WAY too quiet, along with the toms.

I can't comment on the bass because I don't hear any. However the vocals sound amazing.
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Offline OsMosis2259

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #352 on: December 10, 2010, 06:27:20 PM »
I do have the album. I have listened to most of it, as I said. One time. Except Isolation I heard a few times before the album came out.


I have every single creed album and the other two AB albums, most of which I'm very fond of. Tremonti/Phillips/Marshall are one of my favorite music writing trios.

However, out of those 7 albums, they have 2 or so chorus styles that they repeat over....and over.....and over. The vocals change, but the music stays the same.



Regarding the production, the guitar tone isn't as good as it has been for the heavy riffs (though it sounds fine when he's strumming chords...which unfortunatly he is doing like 80% of the album). The snare is a bit...I dunno, just not as good as it has been. While the kick drums are WAY too quiet, along with the toms.

I can't comment on the bass because I don't hear any. However the vocals sound amazing.

Yeah something about the drums sound quiet... It's pretty noticeable when the whole band enters in "slip to the void" after the quiet intro.  Otherwise I still think it is a rocking album  :corn

Offline bosk1

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #353 on: December 10, 2010, 06:34:15 PM »
I'm not sure what it is with this band.  I get really excited to listen to them, and I listen to about half an album's worth and really like it, but then I'm bored and don't want any more.
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Offline Adami

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #354 on: December 10, 2010, 06:38:00 PM »
I'm not sure what it is with this band.  I get really excited to listen to them, and I listen to about half an album's worth and really like it, but then I'm bored and don't want any more.

I can't quite remember what the last few songs of any of their albums sound like, so maybe that's a good point.


I still blame it on a crazy lack of any diversity.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #355 on: December 10, 2010, 08:29:09 PM »
I'm not sure what it is with this band.  I get really excited to listen to them, and I listen to about half an album's worth and really like it, but then I'm bored and don't want any more.

I think that is one of their issues. Their songs, as good as they are, can be quite formulaic. That makes listening to them start to feel like a chore sometimes. Occasionally, just for kicks, I'll start the albums at track 6 or so, just to make it to the end. Usually, I wind up enjoying the 2nd halves just as much as the first.

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I still blame it on a crazy lack of any diversity.

Despite still not being able to understand how you could own all of a certain group of musicians output but only have "almost" listened to the newest album once, I guess I can agree. It'd be nice to hear more "Blackbird" quality epics and the like. But still, I wish I had the luxury of buying albums without bothering to give them time enough for a full-spin.

Offline j

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #356 on: December 10, 2010, 08:53:39 PM »
I still blame it on a crazy lack of any diversity.

I agree.  Although maybe my favorite AB track is the last song on their first album.  And it sounds about as different from the rest of their stuff as they've gotten so far in their career.

-J

Offline LCArenas

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #357 on: December 10, 2010, 09:17:51 PM »
AB III, while still being one of my fav albums of the year (Top 10) is harder to get into than the other AB Records. There are some parts in the songs that don't fit in, as the chorus in Make it Right.

Offline Adami

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #358 on: December 10, 2010, 10:25:19 PM »

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I still blame it on a crazy lack of any diversity.

Despite still not being able to understand how you could own all of a certain group of musicians output but only have "almost" listened to the newest album once, I guess I can agree. It'd be nice to hear more "Blackbird" quality epics and the like. But still, I wish I had the luxury of buying albums without bothering to give them time enough for a full-spin.

I only listen to heavy music in my car. At home I only listen to classical, celtic, and new age. And living in the city, I don't drive often. So I bought the CD a few days ago and listen to it here and there when driving.

Make more sense?
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #359 on: December 11, 2010, 01:15:49 AM »
I'm happy now. But, honestly, I still feel like if you haven't even listened to the album all the way through once, you probably should at least do that and then some. I think people greatly exaggerate the "Tremonti chorus," because I don't hear a lot in common with them other then they're all extremely catchy. But anyway, we all can probably agree that after AB III it's probably time to steer in a new direction.

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #360 on: December 11, 2010, 05:45:38 AM »
They could definately delve more into the new sounds on 'Slip to the Void'. By far the most exciting track on the record.

Whole album is pretty awesome, top 3 this year. Album became much better once I immersed myself in the 'world' of ABIII with the lyrics. Great concept, really works for them. Music-wise, a little samey, yes. But the good moments are really, really good.
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Offline RuRoRul

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #361 on: December 11, 2010, 07:23:25 AM »
They do use a similar type of chorus an awful lot, I can understand people saying that. I don't think it's that big of a deal though, as the rest of the songs are often quite different and they are good at those choruses. I would like there not to be so many of them but it definitely isn't going to put me off.

I usually listen to either the first half or the second half of AB III at once as well. I often start at I Know It Hurts and go on from there.

Offline ariich

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #362 on: December 11, 2010, 08:26:48 AM »
I still blame it on a crazy lack of any diversity.
I listened to the new album and the one before it for the first time today (I'd never bothered checking them out before), and while I liked both albums and they have some great choruses, it's absolutely true that the music is SO samey.

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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #363 on: December 11, 2010, 06:42:55 PM »
I'll be seeing these dudes live this Thursday night. Not one of my favorite bands, but should be fun.

Offline faemir

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #364 on: December 11, 2010, 07:14:58 PM »
I still can't get into this album, slip to the void is good but then my interest just vanishes :-\

Offline Dcrupi

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #365 on: December 11, 2010, 11:05:41 PM »
Seeing AB live on Tuesday.  Can't. Wait.  Gonna be a helluva show.

Offline Accelerando

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #366 on: December 12, 2010, 06:47:32 PM »
I still can't get into this album, slip to the void is good but then my interest just vanishes :-\

Eh, sorry to hear that. I love Slip To The Void, but i def don't think it's the best song on the album. Maybe if you give All Hope Is Gone, Ghosts of Days Gone By, and Show Me A Sign a couple tries, it'll patch up some holes.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #367 on: December 12, 2010, 07:26:53 PM »
After spinning the album for about a week non-stop, mostly while jogging and surfing the web, I'd say that as good as it is, it's a bit hard to get through. It feels long, which is highlighted by the formuliacness. But I still like it. Still a top-10 album for me this year.

Offline Samsara

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #368 on: December 13, 2010, 08:41:17 PM »
So interesting to read thoughts on this. I think the album is brilliant. I think some folks on here may be forgetting the lyrical component of AB III. The album, minus the two bonus tracks, is a concept/theme album on Myles' struggle with faith. It has a ton of ups and downs, both lyrically and musically. The ride Myles takes us on is human, it is real and it is powerful. Frankly, the brutal honesty in the lyrics and the emotion Myles puts forth is jaw dropping.

I find it almost unreal that some of you find the record a "chore" to get through. I realize I am a big, big, big fan, and most of you probably aren't, but by far and away, this album is a classic. It's a true ALBUM, in every sense of the word and a bold statement.

What I find refreshing about it is...it is SOOOOO dark, but the songs still sound like they could hit at radio. It's masterful songwriting. Plus, there is a ton of tasty guitar bits and chord changes that take me on a great musical ride.

I know music is subjective, but sometimes I get the feeling that Dream Theater fans lose sight of good songs, just because they might not be in a crazy time signatures and have three different movements. Alter Bridge is a quasi-progressive band, sorta in the same vein as Queensryche used to be. Their songs don't sound the same, they are just more streamlined to appeal to a wider hard rock audience.

AB III is my album of the year, and totally worth the wait.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #369 on: December 13, 2010, 09:10:17 PM »
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I find it almost unreal that some of you find the record a "chore" to get through. I realize I am a big, big, big fan, and most of you probably aren't, but by far and away, this album is a classic. It's a true ALBUM, in every sense of the word and a bold statement.

It's a chore because every song follows the same exact format. That just gets repetitive after awhile. I agree with the other that this album needed to be mixed up a little bit. Maybe two less 5 minute diddies and a 10 minute epic somewhere. I don't know. It just feels too long.

That said, it's still very, very good.

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #370 on: December 13, 2010, 10:30:08 PM »
I know music is subjective, but sometimes I get the feeling that Dream Theater fans lose sight of good songs, just because they might not be in a crazy time signatures and have three different movements.

This may be true for some, but there are a lot of us here who are critical of DT's own songwriting, and who couldn't care less about funky-ass time sigs and other stuff I don't understand.  I did enjoy this record well enough, and it had some great standout moments on it.

I do agree that it is pretty strong lyrically, and the Kennedy-Tremonti duo is capable of bringing a shit-ton of feeling.  But in the end, there are a lot of samey rhythms and melodies, and that coupled with a lack of creative or remotely varied song structure is a big strike IMO.

-J

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #371 on: December 13, 2010, 10:38:42 PM »
I've gotta give the new album some spins to prep for the NYC Alter Bridge show next Monday. My impression of the new album so far has been that it's good, but samey. I can find myself in the mood to listen to it, but then start tiring of it after a handful of songs.
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Offline Basekick

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #372 on: December 14, 2010, 01:30:15 AM »
I've gotta give the new album some spins to prep for the NYC Alter Bridge show next Monday. My impression of the new album so far has been that it's good, but samey. I can find myself in the mood to listen to it, but then start tiring of it after a handful of songs.

Speaking of the show next week, anyone else know what the deal is with this "coat check voucher" ?  That is, is it $2 for a reservation, free at the theatre, or can I just arrive and pay the $2 or whatever.  I'm confused  :P
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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #373 on: December 14, 2010, 09:12:02 AM »
I find it almost unreal that some of you find the record a "chore" to get through. I realize I am a big, big, big fan, and most of you probably aren't, but by far and away, this album is a classic. It's a true ALBUM, in every sense of the word and a bold statement.

Captain Subjectivity and Opinion Man strike again!

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #374 on: December 14, 2010, 09:26:32 AM »
I find it almost unreal that some of you find the record a "chore" to get through. I realize I am a big, big, big fan, and most of you probably aren't, but by far and away, this album is a classic. It's a true ALBUM, in every sense of the word and a bold statement.

Captain Subjectivity and Opinion Man strike again!

That was pretty uncalled for. I actually have, for this board, one of the most objective musical tastes there is, if I do say so myself. My point in posting about the record was, just because a song isn't 10 minutes in length, and have the same structures, doesn't always make it samey. The band, if you are familiar with Alter Bridge, isn't a progressive band in the vein of Dream Theater. It's a mainstream hard rock band that has a bit of progressive stuff in it, ala the original Queensryche. Not quite progressive, but a little bit of it in there.

Many of the posts here talk about the record being "samey" in terms of song structure. Well, I remind folks that Alter Bridge isn't a progressive metal band. Most song structures are in the vein that Alter Bridge's are. Their aim is to have mainstream hard rock music.

Also, if you are hearing samey riffs and or melodies...again...it's a theme/concept album. Perhaps if you are hearing that, it is on purpose.

Frankly, I'm surprised that no one has remarked that perhaps the album (not counting the bonus tracks) probably should be considered one epic piece, split into separate tracks. Because that's how I view it, given the subject matter. It's the mental journey of a man struggling with what he once believed....and it is in running order, from the event, until the conclusion. The struggle from beginning to its "end" (if it can be called an ending...more like a continuation).

In essence, it could be considered one whole song...sorta how Fates Warning did with A Pleasant Shade of Gray.
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Offline ariich

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #375 on: December 14, 2010, 09:27:38 AM »
I know music is subjective, but sometimes I get the feeling that Dream Theater fans lose sight of good songs, just because they might not be in a crazy time signatures and have three different movements.
This isn't fair at all. I can assure you that I listen to a wider range of music, much of which is very simple, than most people, and while individual songs on ABIII are excellent, the album drags a bit because there are just so many songs that sound really very similar. It's a good album, it just lacks any variety whatsoever.

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Offline Samsara

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #376 on: December 14, 2010, 09:28:48 AM »
I know music is subjective, but sometimes I get the feeling that Dream Theater fans lose sight of good songs, just because they might not be in a crazy time signatures and have three different movements.
This isn't fair at all. I can assure you that I listen to a wider range of music, much of which is very simple, than most people, and while individual songs on ABIII are excellent, the album drags a bit because there are just so many songs that sound really very similar. It's a good album, it just lacks any variety whatsoever.

It's absolutely fair. It's not true in ALL cases, but it is absolutely true in many on this board.

And again, the whole similar thing...read my post above. It goes to my point that if people are hearing things similar throughout the record, keep in mind this is a conceptual/theme album. It's probably on purpose. I don't listen to AB III in the vein of individual tracks, because I don't think it's meant to be.

There are similar motifs, riffs, melodies, etc., in all great concept records. Mindcrime, Tommy, APSoG, SFAM, The Wall, etc. I'm pointing that out, so that folks view the record in a different light. This isn't ONe Day Remains or Blackbird...records that were individual songs.

Treated as something like the concept records I mentioned, any "samey" or "similar" vibe should be treated in the context of that...

Anyway, whatever. That's how I view the record, and that's what I was told was the aim of the band with the album. So I'll just roll with that.

IF folks disagree, that's cool, but I keep throwing it out there so people listen to the record with that in mind...because it seems some folks aren't.
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Offline ariich

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #377 on: December 14, 2010, 09:31:37 AM »
I actually have, for this board, one of the most objective musical tastes there is, if I do say so myself.
That doesn't even make sense. :lol

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My point in posting about the record was, just because a song isn't 10 minutes in length, and have the same structures, doesn't always make it samey. The band, if you are familiar with Alter Bridge, isn't a progressive band in the vein of Dream Theater. It's a mainstream hard rock band that has a bit of progressive stuff in it, ala the original Queensryche. Not quite progressive, but a little bit of it in there.
I'm pretty sure nobody cares whether it is "progressive" or "10-minutes long" or any of that. You're arguing against points that weren't made.

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Many of the posts here talk about the record being "samey" in terms of song structure. Well, I remind folks that Alter Bridge isn't a progressive metal band. Most song structures are in the vein that Alter Bridge's are. Their aim is to have mainstream hard rock music.
It's not just samey in terms of structure, it's samey in terms of everything. Pretty much every song has the same feel, and is in the same style. JLB's Static Impulse suffers from exactly the same problem, but on a slightly smaller scale, and it has fewer songs.

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Frankly, I'm surprised that no one has remarked that perhaps the album (not counting the bonus tracks) probably should be considered one epic piece, split into separate tracks. Because that's how I view it, given the subject matter. It's the mental journey of a man struggling with what he once believed.

In essence, it could be considered one whole song...sorta how Fates Warning did with A Pleasant Shade of Gray.
Maybe, but APSOG had a hell of a lot more variation in tone and style than AB III.

Anyway, tastes are tastes, people can think whatever they want.

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Offline Samsara

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #378 on: December 14, 2010, 09:38:20 AM »
That doesn't even make sense. :lol

How so? Saying that I am objective doesn't make sense? One look at my music collection would change your mind.



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I'm pretty sure nobody cares whether it is "progressive" or "10-minutes long" or any of that. You're arguing against points that weren't made.

Re-read the last two pages. Someone absolutely mentioned "10 minute long songs."

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It's not just samey in terms of structure, it's samey in terms of everything. Pretty much every song has the same feel, and is in the same style. JLB's Static Impulse suffers from exactly the same problem, but on a slightly smaller scale, and it has fewer songs.

And I'd argue that for THIS ALBUM, if you are hearing that, it was likely very much by design, given what the album is, conceptual/theme-wise.

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Maybe, but APSOG had a hell of a lot more variation in tone and style than AB III.

Anyway, tastes are tastes, people can think whatever they want.

Not really. There were recurring riffs and themes throughout. The only major difference is that APSoG relies heavily on keyboards, giving the album an additional instrument.

It'll be interesting to see if AB incorporates that in its next album.

Yes, people can think whatever they want. But this is a DISCUSSION FORUM, which is the reason why I brought it up.
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Offline faemir

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #379 on: December 14, 2010, 09:47:43 AM »
It's samey, and I'm not saying that because OMG ITS NOT PROG, i'm saying it because every song is similar. Yes, it's hard rock, but plenty of other non-prog bands manage to have incredible diversity, or even have similar sounding songs that aren't samey.

Radiohead, Thrice, The Smashing Pumpkins, Dredg, etc etc.

Offline ariich

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #380 on: December 14, 2010, 10:00:21 AM »
How so? Saying that I am objective doesn't make sense? One look at my music collection would change your mind.
Saying that your tastes are more objective doesn't make sense. Tastes are subjective.

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I'm pretty sure nobody cares whether it is "progressive" or "10-minutes long" or any of that. You're arguing against points that weren't made.

Re-read the last two pages. Someone absolutely mentioned "10 minute long songs."
I've gone back and read the whole thread since the album was announced and I can't find anything like that whatsoever. In fact this has been one of the most overwhelmingly positive threads we've had about a new album! There's just been the complaint from a very small number of us about them sounding samey, which even some huge fans agree with.

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It's not just samey in terms of structure, it's samey in terms of everything. Pretty much every song has the same feel, and is in the same style. JLB's Static Impulse suffers from exactly the same problem, but on a slightly smaller scale, and it has fewer songs.

And I'd argue that for THIS ALBUM, if you are hearing that, it was likely very much by design, given what the album is, conceptual/theme-wise.
Fair enough, I'm not saying it is inherently a bad thing or that it's not justified, it's just why I personally find the album drags a bit, and so why others might find the same thing.

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Yes, people can think whatever they want. But this is a DISCUSSION FORUM, which is the reason why I brought it up.
Indeed, and I'm not saying that you shouldn't post your thoughts and defend the album. I just said that questioning the integrity of those who feel differently is not fair.

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Offline faemir

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #381 on: December 14, 2010, 11:23:00 AM »
By design? Sure. By direct choice? I think not. Listen to All of AB and Creed's work - it's all in the same vein. Songs like Blackbird were AB truely branching out and it worked tremendously, and then they go and say "oh we won't even try to top that song". What sort of attitude is that? I'm saying Blackbird > all because it's long or "epic", but it was experimentation and progression in their music, which is what bands need to do to avoid stagnating, which is exactly what AB have done. A Prime example of this movement in style/sound done perfectly would be Thrice.

Offline EPICVIEW

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #382 on: December 14, 2010, 11:33:01 AM »
I still blame it on a crazy lack of any diversity.
I listened to the new album and the one before it for the first time today (I'd never bothered checking them out before), and while I liked both albums and they have some great choruses, it's absolutely true that the music is SO samey.


I feel the same way!
its so formula that it lacks any real brilliance, but I guess if you "like one song of theirs, then you like them all, since they all feel the same"  and the production is tiring to my ears also, I certainly dont find anything "EPIC" about this CD! nor do I think anyone here cant enjoy the CD because we are DT fans?  all of us enjoy all types of music, just look at the topics being deiscussed!!!

well said Ariich!
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 11:52:53 AM by EPICVIEW »
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Offline RuRoRul

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #383 on: December 14, 2010, 01:07:16 PM »
Well Alter Bridge is my favourite band, but I understand why some people might feel that way. The songs are similar in that most of them have a similar structure, and often use a similar type of chorus.

While I wouldn't mind seeing some different songs, like "a 10 minute epic" (which I would love to see Alter Bridge try), the fact is that mostly bands having too much "variety" on their albums usually just means some of the songs flop, for me. I don't think every Alter Bridge song sounds the same, or even too similar, at all, but I can understand that many of them aren't drastically different. I wouldn't mind seeing some different structures and chorus styles, but at the same time I'd rather have an album of great songs in a similar vein than a few songs that completely flop, thrown in just to make variety.

Also I often listen to Alter Bridge songs individually, or at least not entire album at a time. In fact I usually only listen to either new albums whole at a time or concept albums. So for me it doesn't matter if an album has too many songs - the more Alter Bridge music I can get, the happier I'll be. It probably doesn't help people listening to the whole album and finding it difficult to get through that they're probably hearing the American version with two extra bonus tracks - 16 songs is quite a lot to get through, especially when a lot of the songs are of a similar type.

That said, I think AB III is an amazing album, every song on it is great and many are absolutely amazing, and although I might like to see Alter Bridge do some different song structures and more choruses that are a bit different, the fact is Alter Bridge have always made the best music for me, regardless of whether I prefer less standard song structures, and in the end the music will always win for me over variety, being experimental or having non standard structure.

Offline bosk1

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Re: The Official Alter Bridge Thread
« Reply #384 on: December 14, 2010, 05:39:59 PM »
I have nothing bad to say about the album or the band.  But in terms of it dragging because of similar structures and sound, yeah, I made the same comment.  While I like the album, it does at times feel like a chore to get through.  I have similar feelings toward Symphony X's Paradise Lost--terrific album, but there is little variety, so I tend to lose interest after about half the album. 

I will say, however, that sometimes with a group like this, it really just takes time for the album to sink in.  Not being as big a fan as Samsara, I haven't really completely immersed myself in the album enough yet to take in all its subtleties and appreciate each song on its own. 
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