The Official Alter Bridge Thread v. PAWNS & KINGS

[Samsara]

I've been wanting to check this band out for a whil, and have only listened to a couple songs (one being the title track of their latest, and the other an older ballad of which I don't remember the title, but was one of the first search results on youtube), and really liked what I heard so far.

So, where should I start? Albums in chronological order? Start with their latest? Something else? Should I start with Creed first? Too many options

I always recommend people start their AB journey with Blackbird. It's their 2007 studio album and their second overall. I feel that really sets the template and gives you, as the listener, all the different sides of the band. The metal side, the epic side, the softer side, etc. If you love Blackbird, you really can't miss on the other albums.

[gzarruk]

Thanks for the input! Will try to start the journey later today or maybe early tomorrow on my way to work

Will have to check Creed at some point too, but judging from my lurking around this thread the last few days, they aren't that similar, besides being the same band with a different singer (this is my oversimplified way of saying it, I don't really know their backstory).

[Deadeye21]

The interesting thing is Creed’s fourth album, Full Circle. Since Eric Friedman became a part of the band at that point, it’s pretty much a meta album all of its own. There are heavier songs that could’ve been on One Day Remains if they were sung by Myles, but Eric brings in the connection to the Tremonti solo project. It’s kinda cool to think about.

[Stadler]

Thanks for the input! Will try to start the journey later today or maybe early tomorrow on my way to work

Will have to check Creed at some point too, but judging from my lurking around this thread the last few days, they aren't that similar, besides being the same band with a different singer (this is my oversimplified way of saying it, I don't really know their backstory).

As someone who isn't note-for-note invested in either band, they are not worlds apart.  I know there's a contingent that probably has Myles light years ahead of Stapp for various reasons, but let's not over-exaggerate; this isn't like comparing Johnny Cash and Cannibal Corpse.


The new album came in yesterday; waiting for a good chance to listen to it in the car, where I can really dive in.

[Samsara]

Uh, no, Stads.

Myles Kennedy is by far and away a completely different singer than Scott Stapp. The obvious - Kennedy is a tenor, Stapp is a baritone. But in terms of dynamics, songwriting, melody choice, etc., they are drastically different.

And AB as a band, from Blackbird until present, are way, WAY more dynamic than Creed EVER was. And this is coming from a diehard fan of AB and a fan of Creed.

YES! We disagreed on something again. I was getting worried! 

[Stadler]

Uh, no, Stads.

Myles Kennedy is by far and away a completely different singer than Scott Stapp. The obvious - Kennedy is a tenor, Stapp is a baritone. But in terms of dynamics, songwriting, melody choice, etc., they are drastically different.

And AB as a band, from Blackbird until present, are way, WAY more dynamic than Creed EVER was. And this is coming from a diehard fan of AB and a fan of Creed.

YES! We disagreed on something again. I was getting worried! 

Well, again, I'm not note-for-note invested in either band and I sort of don't see the "dynamicism" in AB that some here do.  Is there REALLY a ton of difference, say, between Rise Today and What If?  Sure; the baritone vs. tenor is a difference (and I prefer Myles; Scott can sing but his voice is a little too much of it's time, the '90s, for me).   FOR ME, AB is great, but a little one-dimensional.  I like them - I bought the new album without hearing it, a rarity these days - but I constantly wish AB would put out an album like Physical Graffitti.  I would love to have an album that is at least half acoustic.  I've not heard that from them, frankly.  It's not a criticism; I want bands to do what THEY want more than I do what I want.

[Deadeye21]

Is there REALLY a ton of difference, say, between Rise Today and What If? .

Yes. There is. If you wanted to compare Rise Today to something, it probably should’ve been something more like Higher. What If is a way heavier song than you're giving it credit for with this comparison.

I’d maybe say more like Open Your Eyes and My Sacrifice for a better comparison. With the Weathered album, they are sewing the seeds of the fruit One Day Remains would reap.

[Samsara]

I’d maybe say more like Open Your Eyes and My Sacrifice for a better comparison. With the Weathered album, they are sewing the seeds of the fruit One Day Remains would reap.

Exactly this.

Stads - I know the comparisons seem, on the surface, easy to draw, but if you listen a little deeper, toss aside One Day Remains and compare Blackbird to anything Creed ever did, you'll see they are drastically different bands. Remember, Blackbird was the first record AB wrote fully together using Myles' ability to play guitar (and write music). Myles only did the lyrics and melodies for like half of One Day Remains. Mark did the rest.

So any comparison of AB to Creed has to really start with Blackbird. And if you compare say Blackbird to Human Clay (the best albums of the respective bands), they are dramatically different. Both GREAT records, but Blackbird is seriously way more dynamic.

[Stadler]

I’d maybe say more like Open Your Eyes and My Sacrifice for a better comparison. With the Weathered album, they are sewing the seeds of the fruit One Day Remains would reap.

Exactly this.

Stads - I know the comparisons seem, on the surface, easy to draw, but if you listen a little deeper, toss aside One Day Remains and compare Blackbird to anything Creed ever did, you'll see they are drastically different bands. Remember, Blackbird was the first record AB wrote fully together using Myles' ability to play guitar (and write music). Myles only did the lyrics and melodies for like half of One Day Remains. Mark did the rest.

So any comparison of AB to Creed has to really start with Blackbird. And if you compare say Blackbird to Human Clay (the best albums of the respective bands), they are dramatically different. Both GREAT records, but Blackbird is seriously way more dynamic.

Not being argumentative, because I really want to understand.  How are you defining "dynamic"?  To me that's volume (soft versus loud), tone (clean versus distorted) and the mix (arpeggios and cleaning picked lines versus walls of distorted guitars).   In terms of that I'm struggling to see. 

[Samsara]

I'm talking songwriting and vocals.

One listen to a song like "Ties That Bind" and you'll see there's no way a Stapp-fronted Creed could play that.

Listen to the guitars throughout the record - Mark is Mark, but he never soloed that way in Creed. And Myles very different tone and style as a guitarist distinguished AB from Creed.

[Lonk]

I agree with Stadler on this one.

[Samsara]

I agree with Stadler on this one.

I'm listening to Human Clay as I type this. (Love this record.) The atmosphere and mood are similar to what AB does in spots for sure. I hear what Stads hears. But think about this:

If you put Stapp fronting AB, and took out a guitar, what happens to AB? It becomes a plodding, less interesting (both musically and vocally) band. They are two completely different beasts. AB themselves have been saying that to deaf ears for years. They aren't Creed - not by a long shot. It just so happens that the band played in Creed. But they played very differently back then. Particularly Flip (the drummer) and Mark, who has grown tremendously as a player and writer.

Anyway, I'm not going to continue this back and forth. If folks really think there isn't much difference, then that's what you think. To my ear, they are VASTLY different entities. And I enjoy both. But AB WAY more.

[Stadler]

I agree with Stadler on this one.

I'm listening to Human Clay as I type this. (Love this record.) The atmosphere and mood are similar to what AB does in spots for sure. I hear what Stads hears. But think about this:

If you put Stapp fronting AB, and took out a guitar, what happens to AB? It becomes a plodding, less interesting (both musically and vocally) band. They are two completely different beasts. AB themselves have been saying that to deaf ears for years. They aren't Creed - not by a long shot. It just so happens that the band played in Creed. But they played very differently back then. Particularly Flip (the drummer) and Mark, who has grown tremendously as a player and writer.

Anyway, I'm not going to continue this back and forth. If folks really think there isn't much difference, then that's what you think. To my ear, they are VASTLY different entities. And I enjoy both. But AB WAY more.

I know you said you're done and I respect that. I'm not looking to convince you; I was sincere in wanting to understand.   

I see what you see, too:  I get that they're not Creed and I get that they would want people to see the difference. I get that Myles isn't Scott (and I prefer Myles, for the record; I don't really care for that 90's vocal sound, myself). I get that they have (hopefully) progressed as players.  But that's not to say that they are worlds apart.  Remember, too, that I am a Slash/Myles fan.  I see more differences between Myles in Slash versus Myles in AB than I do the band in AB versus the band in Creed, if that makes sense. THAT'S my bench mark and that might not be fair in and of itself.   

EDIT:  And to use a recent example we bonded over, to me Zeppelin is a "dynamic" band, most obviously on Zep III and Zep IV.  AB is more like Presence, to me, which is a more one-dimensional Zeppelin album (by design). I've long said I would LOVE to hear AB write and perform their version of Zeppelin IV. 

[Lonk]

Sorry, I should've been clearer.

I agreed with Stad regarding AB not being very dinamic, not that AB and Creed are similar.

I like AB a lot, Tremonti is a top notch player. The writing is myles better than Creed (see what I did there ), so I am not comparing the two bands. I just don't think dynamic when I think of AB.

[Kwyjibo]

They are dynamic. But when you listen to a whole record the dynamic gets a bit buried in the wall of sound they create in so many songs.

And not to beat a dead horse but I, like Stadler certainly hear similarities between Creed and AB. They aren't the same band for sure and One Day Remains has probably more Creed than later records. AB evolved, but so did Creed. My Own Prison sounds very different from Weathered for example.

[Samsara]

So now that the first leg of the Pawns & Kings tour is over, I have some thoughts on the show.

From what I see, the production is classy. Not overdone, but absolutely continuing the trend of the tour they had for Walk the Sky, using video more. But they strike a really good balance, not overdoing it.

I'm pleased they are rotating songs almost every show. In fact, there is one track from One Day Remains that I'd really kill to see live, and I hope they do it at least once in the five shows I am seeing next year. Fingers and toes crossed.

That said, I realize that Myles has control over the length of the setlist, but 16 songs isn't enough. I know he's the singer, and he's guarding his voice, and I respect that. I really do. But as a fan, it sucks. I know 90 minutes is the norm now. But growing up in the era of headline bands in the metal and hard rock genres doing 2 hour sets, it really gets to be annoying to hear a band stop at the 75-80 minute mark, and come out for two more songs. I remember when bands first started doing that, they got ridiculed. Now it is just accepted. I hate it. I know there needs to be a line somewhere, and Myles balances that as best he can, and I'm not mad at him. Just frustrated that I want to see a more "normal length" show regularly from them.

The only other complaint - they need to play more new material. I know it's difficult in a 16-song set. But two or three is not okay. That needs to be four. Support your new record. The amount of tracks from your latest release should be the biggest number of any songs from any album on that new album's support tour. Plain and simple. If you don't, you become a nostalgia act. And that's not what AB is.

I mean, I said this earlier - I don't need to ever hear Open Your Eyes again. Enough. Even Rise Today - enough. Yes, Blackbird is pretty much necessary. And I get that you want to represent ALL your records. That's fine. But the new album should always be featured on a headline tour. Not relegated to two or three songs, while you play five from an album recorded 18 years ago. That's silly. That's what all the washed up bands do with their headline sets. Play the old shit, and then throw in a new song or two. That sucks. AB is still relevant. Feature the new tunes in a big way.

I'm very much looking forward to the five shows (so far) next year. But I really do think they need to bump it up to 18 songs, and 1 hr. 45 minutes. And emphasize the new songs more with that extra time.

[Samsara]

Another six weeks until I get to see four AB shows with the fam. Really looking forward to it. I had a fifth planned (for this upcoming weekend), but had to scrap it due to work stuff. Still a little concerned at the setlist. Given I'm seeing four shows, and they are rotating a song or two each show it seems, I should get to see everything they have rehearsed. But while I understand Myles controlling things to make sure he can consistently deliver a good show and protect his voice, 16 tunes...it's just not enough. And I'd like to see them concentrate on the new album more.

But, I'll take what I can get. I am fortunate to be seeing them twice in Myles' hometown. I saw the Blackbird tour and the Last Hero tour there, and each time, they played an extra song or two/rarity. So hopefully that'll happen again.

Pawns & Kings really continues to get rotation. I hate the fact they released Holiday as a single. By far my least favorite on the record. And of course, they are playing it live (happens with every AB record - they play the songs I like least). But the album is really, really good.

My previous post stands though. 18 songs, 1:45 minute set, is necessary for this band.

[DTwwbwMP]

So last night I saw Alter Bridge for concert #800 (8th time seeing AB since 2005). As always, the band delivered on all cylinders with another fantastic performance. That's where the good news ends. While I truly LOVE EVERY SONG (BUT 1....One Life, 99/100 ain't bad) that this incredible band have released, I am now FURIOUS with once again, playing the same 10-12 songs other than the new ones. WHY?
As good as they are, they refuse to "open up the playbook" It makes me (and the 5 people I was with last night, SO PISSED OFF! And another thing. While I love Myles Kennedy, he probably doesn't even need a shower after the show. He doesn't even break a sweat! I have NEVER loved a band SO MUCH and at the same time, been let down with the setlists.
INFURIATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EPICVIEW]

with all the glowing love for AB I will double back and try again with AB, Ive never been a fan of Myles's voice for some reason.

I did/do love a lot of Creed

[fadetoblackdude7]

Yeah I’ve been keeping an eye on the setlists every night. Disappointing. To echo what was said above, they really need to play more songs off the album they’re supporting. At least half the album should be played each night. I have the same problem with Metallica - boring, predictable setlists. It’s so frustrating as a fan. I’m seeing them in a few weeks so maybe they’ll start switching it up, but not getting my hopes up.

[lordxizor]

That's a bummer to hear. I haven't seen Alter Bridge live in over a decade despite remaining a big fan. So I won't be too annoyed by hearing many of my old favorites on the 11th when they come to my area.

[Samsara]

So last night I saw Alter Bridge for concert #800 (8th time seeing AB since 2005). As always, the band delivered on all cylinders with another fantastic performance. That's where the good news ends. While I truly LOVE EVERY SONG (BUT 1....One Life, 99/100 ain't bad) that this incredible band have released, I am now FURIOUS with once again, playing the same 10-12 songs other than the new ones. WHY?
As good as they are, they refuse to "open up the playbook" It makes me (and the 5 people I was with last night, SO PISSED OFF! And another thing. While I love Myles Kennedy, he probably doesn't even need a shower after the show. He doesn't even break a sweat! I have NEVER loved a band SO MUCH and at the same time, been let down with the setlists.
INFURIATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hear ya. AB is my favorite active band. I love the records, love hearing them play live. But exactly all of that. They seem to think they need to play the same hits every single tour. They don't. At all. I was posting about that earlier in this thread too. Enough with all the songs that have been played to death. Support your new record. They play like four songs from it, which to be fair, is 1/4 of their setlist. But that's the problem. The show is too short, and they play too many of the same songs over and over again. We don't need to hear Open Your Eyes or In Loving Memory. Hell, we don't even need (I know, this is blasphemy) Blackbird! It has been played EVERY SHOW SINCE 2007.

They should be doing at least half their new record at every show. And then playing a good mix of the other records. They are way too heavy on One Day Remains and Blackbird. Spread it out! I'd love to hear them put in Cradle to the Grave, bring back Shed My Skin. How about pulling out Wayward One?

So...yeah.

Like I said, I'll see them four times this year. Three in a row, then a break of a few days, and then a fourth time. So I have a good chance of seeing most of what they are playing on this tour (they are rotating several songs). But still. 16 songs is way too short with a band with their catalog.

[DTwwbwMP]

Completely agree the shows are too short but if that's what they do, then even MORE reason to mix shit up, right? They are not a legacy band who has to rely on "hits"! I speak for myself, but I feel AB fans would be thrilled with a set like this (or many other variations) that didn't have the same ol' same ol...
Silver Tongue
Poison in Your Veins
Peace is Broken
This is War
Shed My Skin
Come to Life
Stay
White Knuckles
Wonderful Life *acoustic*
One By One *acoustic*
Sin After Sin
Take the Crown
Fortress
Watch Your Words
Crows on A Wire
I Know it Hurts
Pawns & Kings
encore:
Fable of the Silent Son
Down to My Last

[Samsara]

They have so many good songs, I agree. My ideal set would look a lot different than yours, but still good.

[DTwwbwMP]

My ideal set would look a lot different than yours, but still good.

Honestly, that's NOT my "ideal" set at all, just throwing songs against the wall that aren't played ad nauseum. I would be thrilled with ANY AB set that did not include:
Pain, Ghost, tomorrow, Achilles, Watch, Memory, Wings, water rising, blackbird, isolation, rise, eyes, lingus, etc

Love all of them, but don't need to ever see them again unless an album celebration tour.

[Samsara]

In no order, here are the songs I'd really like to see them put into the rotation

Shed My Skin (this was actually in the last several shows on the European leg of this tour, but not yet in the U.S.)
The End is Here (make it more regular)
Wayward One
New Way to Live
Lover
Cradle to the Grave
Walk the Sky
Fable of the Silent Son

There are a few others, but they randomly play those, or have in recent years. But I'd happily live without Metalingus, Rise Today, Open Your Eyes, etc., for the next decade if these could get in the mix.

[nick_z]

In no order, here are the songs I'd really like to see them put into the rotation

Shed My Skin (this was actually in the last several shows on the European leg of this tour, but not yet in the U.S.)
The End is Here (make it more regular)
Wayward One
New Way to Live
Lover
Cradle to the Grave
Walk the Sky
Fable of the Silent Son

There are a few others, but they randomly play those, or have in recent years. But I'd happily live without Metalingus, Rise Today, Open Your Eyes, etc., for the next decade if these could get in the mix.

Ha! I did NOT know New Way to Live up until today...What a great song! It has that early, more sparse AB feel, but with some of the "darkness" creeping in. Well, thank you, Samsara...found something new today 

Oh, and among the others, couldn't agree more about Lover. Huge fan of that song. Very unique.

[Samsara]

Enjoy, Nick!

And by the way, the lyrics of "New Way to Live" are written by Myles and directed at Brian Marshall. BMarsh had some lifestyle and addiction issues that were destroying his life. Myles wrote that song about him. Thankfully, BMarsh is healthy and has been sober for many years now, following that song.

[Anguyen92]

Well, some fans in the Southeast area of the states gets some shows.  They get Sevendust as a main support.  No dates that I want to make a good weekend trip out of.  Got everything ready for me to fly out to Toronto tomorrow night to see them on Saturday.  Also, in the spirit of being in Toronto and being a huge hockey city, I may wear the Shinedown hockey jersey I bought to wear on top of my usual AB shirt and maybe try to ignite a push to maybe have AB work with the guys from Puck Hcky to do some jersey designs.  It would be an instant purchase for me if that happens.

[Samsara]

DAMN IT! This is my DREAM BILL and it's nowhere close. Flights to all cities that make sense are astronomical (particularly for three people). Oh well, maybe they'll bring this bill around the states later in the year. They did skip some BIG markets (Bay Area usually gets a date, it hasn't), so fingers-crossed this comes around.

[hefdaddy42]

Greensboro is closer, but Myrtle Beach is more fun.  Maybe I finally get to see them live?

[Samsara]

Greensboro is closer, but Myrtle Beach is more fun.  Maybe I finally get to see them live?

They are a really good live band. And if you haven't seen Sevendust, they are great too. It's a phenomenal bill.

[ReaperKK]

I'm going to hit up the Charlotte show, that is a great venue.

[Anguyen92]

All right, after more than a day of being home after being to Toronto to see AB, I guess it's time for me to state my recap of their show.

Well, let me preface by saying that I thought that wearing a hockey jersey (of Shinedown's Leave A Whisper cover) over my usual AB shirt and regular dark pants was going to be enough to endure the cold weather for the four hours I was standing in line.  It wasn't.... No matter, I survived it.  Made it inside at 7 PM and ended up being in the 2nd row and center and everything was going to be fine temperature wise.  The spot I thought I was going to be in after the VIP people get in and it was a great spot.



Mammoth WVH was a great supporting band, but I wasn't surprised at that idea. I think certain people are trying to project wanting Wolfie to be his dad and get pissy when he doesn't fill that mold (i.e. not playing Van Halen songs in his set). Probably the same type of people that gets pissy every time Mark hems and haws at the idea of bringing back Creed.  Anywho, Wolfgang's stuff would have its audience that works in today's modern rock crowds. People in Toronto liked them.  As a LA Kings fan, I would have really liked it if he threw a little playful joke about the Leafs, but the vibes in his set and the vibe of the crowd throughout the entire night was fantastic, so best not to ruined that.  The venue staff was pretty cool as well.  During the break to set up AB's stuff, the staff passed a lot of water bottles around to people near the rail that wants water.

As for AB, this was the 9th time I have seen them (out of a possible 11 times with the two shows in SoCal I'm seeing them in late March/early April) and this might the very best show I've seen from them, which makes this possibly the best concert I have ever been to.  For me, I don't really care what they play, I just only hope they have tours that I look at and think, "I can make a weekend out of that." They played 16 songs in Toronto that lasted around 90-95 minutes. 13 of the 16 I've heard before, but I still thought, "This might be the best show I've seen from them after seeing them 9 times in various cities in North America."

I mean I get those that have seen them many times and knows their setlists are pretty dull after a couple of cycles.  On the flip side, to this day, for a good portion of the crowds, this is their first AB show. When I was in line, I asked a group behind me, is this your first AB show? They told me yes and one person told me that they liked what they see in the setlists in previous shows and she'd hoped that they would play Broken Wings in the Toronto show. They didn't.

The band played great.  I didn't suffer from the usual helium hearing effects I would have when Mark and Myles would talk after the songs.  Pawns & Kings songs come off well, especially the title track and This Is War.  They did the version of Burn it Down with Mark on vocals (taking something they needed to do out of necessity when Myles was sick in a show in 2019 and liking the idea enough to turn it into something interesting to hear on the regular).  Crowd was fantastic.  I remember when Myles was greeting the crowd for the first time of the show and liking the reaction so far where he stated along the lines of, "With the reaction I am hearing, you must have mistaken us for another band.  We'll take the great reaction though," and the crowd immediately went into an Alter Bridge chant and I know he appreciates the chant.  I always say it: Alter Bridge crowds always feels like a good kind of home to me.  I wouldn't want to be anywhere else but be in that kind of crowd in a suitable and packed building.

The only issue I had that had nothing to do with anyone was that my neck was starting to feel pretty sore, probably due to standing in the same position for a good long period of time and probably the headbanging didn't help as well.  Just gave it a rub and apply some good enough pressure and hope I can survive the rest of the day.  I liked how after the main set, they placed a customized Canadian flag on the amps with the Pawns & Kings album cover on the center of the flag.

No picks or setlists for me this show, but I wasn't really fishing for any of those this time around.  The only thing I really hope for is that they took note of me wearing a hockey jersey of a band that's a good contemporary of theirs and get inspired to get in touch with the guys that makes hockey jerseys of band designs (Puck Hcky) and consider the idea of releasing some new merch that includes hockey jerseys designs as well.  I would order those immediately upon release.

Two more shows to go after this one.  Both in SoCal.  I'm going to go ahead and pass on the idea of heading to Kansas City to see them and then go to St. Louis for a Blues game the next day.  Just probably too beat and tired and getting into planes for now.

[Samsara]

Nice recap. I've been being careful not to watch any videos, so I am glad they are sounding great. The setlist is what it is. I'm excited to see our round of four shows (Seattle-Spokane 2x-Reno) to end next month. I hope they are really tight, and we get to see all the P&K songs they know (and hopefully by then put in Fable).

Dude, I know you're from SoCal, but Toronto in February? C'mon now. You should know better. 

We're really excited and looking forward to our string of dates. I'm REALLY hoping they do another leg of markets they missed in the fall, and bring Sevendust along. Seems unfair they are finally doing a bill so many have asked for, and just doing it for a handful of dates in the southeast. That pairing is a monster, and I am sure it will do really well.