Israel Assassinations?

[Adami]

This was much sloppier than a classic mossad job.

 Apparently they locked the door from the inside to make it look like he died alone. That just sounds shitty, even if it was for temporary effect. Also there were electric shocks on his genitals, if that means anything.

 Assassinations are bad diplomacy. If you're with war with a country and you're killing people left and right, that's one thing. But if you're trying to make peace with a group of people, assassinating their leaders is one of the worst things you can do. I hope the moderates in the Israeli government are pissed about this... if it was Mossad.

If what you say is true, it's looking less like a mossad job. Maybe some israelis were involved, but I doubt it was an "israeli" plan.

Anywho, as far as your assassination theory goes. WW2 wasn't won with diplomacy. Sometimes people don't want to negotiate. I will turn you now to the joker as a demonstration.

[ack44]

This was much sloppier than a classic mossad job.

 Apparently they locked the door from the inside to make it look like he died alone. That just sounds shitty, even if it was for temporary effect. Also there were electric shocks on his genitals, if that means anything.

 Assassinations are bad diplomacy. If you're with war with a country and you're killing people left and right, that's one thing. But if you're trying to make peace with a group of people, assassinating their leaders is one of the worst things you can do. I hope the moderates in the Israeli government are pissed about this... if it was Mossad.

If what you say is true, it's looking less like a mossad job. Maybe some israelis were involved, but I doubt it was an "israeli" plan.

Anywho, as far as your assassination theory goes. WW2 wasn't won with diplomacy. Sometimes people don't want to negotiate. I will turn you now to the joker as a demonstration.

 WW2 is a bad example because A. The Axis Powers were strong, Hamas isn't and B. Israel and Hamas aren't at war. It's true that some people don't want to negotiate but the way you go about solving that isn't by fueling exactly that, which is what assassinations and things like the Gaza War do. Besides, how are you supposed to believe in negotiations if people like Netanyahu are saying that West Bank settlements are going to be permanently part of Israel. That's pretty much saying that there will never be a Palestinian state, so if you're a Palestinian, who are you supposed to negotiate with? What options do you have other than to try to tear down the fences while Israeli soldiers shoot tear gas at you?

[ack44]

Well in their defense, Israel IS trying to make peace with the Palestinian people.  They're killing the people who would do anything to prevent peace.

 I get the feeling that a lot of Israelis don't worry about peace too much anymore, since there haven't been many terrorist attacks recently. The people who want to expand the settlements are much more strong willed, from what I've see.

[Super Dude]

Well the people who want to expand the settlements don't exactly represent that large a percentage of the population.  Most Israelis do want peace.

Oh yeah, and yes this is a war.  Where have you been the last 60 years?

[ack44]

It's not a war, it's an occupation and a conflict. The battles in Gaza a year ago was a war. If Israel assassinated a Hamas official in the battleground during war then it probably wouldn't be such a big deal. But under a ceasefire I don't see how an assassination can be justified from an international standpoint.

[Progmetty]

Well in their defense, Israel IS trying to make peace with the Palestinian people.  They're killing the people who would do anything to prevent peace.

I'm sorry dude but it's not that simple or black and white.
They're killing people who're resisting their conception of peace and unable to fight it legally, if someone finds the Israeli version of peace unfair or forced without mutual benifits then they should die cause they're preventing peace.
Israeli version of peace being "hey do as we say so we can get to the point where we don't have to bomb you as often cause it's getting to be a bummer all around"

[Super Dude]

See now you're simplifying things.  The Israeli version of peace doesn't entail Israelis wanting to bomb Palestinians; it's about deterrence, preventing Palestinian terrorists and terrorists from other countries from continuing attacks against the state.

[Adami]

And now we're back to the whole "israels very existence is wrong and thus makes the palestinian cause justified despite their means".

Which means I'm out. Have fun.

[Progmetty]

Oh the Palestinian cause is totally justified and their means are no lower or dirtier than the Israeli ones, these two deserve each other, that's not what we're talking about or what I mean though.
And Super Dude c'mon man, the word terrorists is too early 00's and not clever anymore, I think the point got across to everyone now that the definition of that word became simply "People who disagree with us but not powerful enough to organize a real military-to-military war yet not weak enough to stop resisting our plans".
Again I'm trying to be neutral here, on a personal level I have never met a Palestinian person that I didn't hate with a passion and I've come to understand that they hate us -Egyptians- as well and find us responsable for shit they brought upon themselves, the burnt dead bodies of children still get to me though, I'm kinda wussy like that :/

[ack44]

And now we're back to the whole "israels very existence is wrong and thus makes the palestinian cause justified despite their means".

 lol wat? where'd that come from?

[emindead]

And now we're back to the whole "israels very existence is wrong and thus makes the palestinian cause justified despite their means".

lol wat? where'd that come from?

He just need a way out because things were getting a little bit messy.

[Adami]

And now we're back to the whole "israels very existence is wrong and thus makes the palestinian cause justified despite their means".

lol wat? where'd that come from?

He just need a way out because things were getting a little bit messy.

Oh knock it off. Read mettys post.

[ack44]

See now you're simplifying things.  The Israeli version of peace doesn't entail Israelis wanting to bomb Palestinians; it's about deterrence, preventing Palestinian terrorists and terrorists from other countries from continuing attacks against the state.

 The Netanyahu/right-wing coalition version of peace is a bit more than that.

[Adami]

Ack is right, the right wingers in israel are completely insane and hindering peace. They need to let it go, along with the entire west bank.

[Super Dude]

Alright, but that doesn't mean all of Israel is composed of right-wingers.  And just because my views have a slight bias towards Israel doesn't make me a right-winger.

And @ metty: clearly you and I have different definitions of the word 'terrorist.'  A terrorist in the sense of the word I prescribe to is someone who is not a legitimate army because it represents but is not officially backed by a nation or group of people.  The terrorist groups that come out of Palestine are not legitimate because they don't have a legitimate government behind them, or if they do it's factional at best (in which case it can hardly be called legitimate anyway).

[Adami]

Without getting into the whole "Israelis are just rich terrorists" argument....

Super dude, israel has a LOT of right wingers, not a majority, but a good number. The gov also has wayyyy too many right wingers that would be happy to see the palestinians go away.

On the flipside, many palestinians just want peace and only end up supporting extremists groups because they feel no one else cares about them.

[Super Dude]

Alright, well I can't argue with there being a lot of right-wingers, but I do believe the left wing majority must count for something.  I'm not big on getting into this either though.

[ack44]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c5VSAb0ol8

England murdering?

[Adami]

Maybe I missed it, but where was the proof that it was israel? Seems people are just guessing?


Also, as far as the whole "well since israel won't confirm or deny it, it's proof they did it". That doesn't hold up because israel still can't make explicit what they DID do. If they denied everything they didn't do then refused to comment on something, it becomes obvious they did it, thus they don't comment on anything. Whether or not they did it. So that idea just doesn't work in this case.

[ack44]

Yea, Israel has an official policy of not confirming or denying anything when it comes to security issues. There's no proof so far that it was Israel but as the dude said, 7 of the names of the false passports were of Israeli citizens who claim they weren't in Dubai, so there's apparently a "strong link to Israel." Who else would kill Hamas officials other than the Israeli government?

[Adami]

Why would mossad use fake israeli passports to hide their identity? Seems counter intuitive.

[ack44]

What I meant to say was passports with names of Israeli citizens. All the passports were French or British or Irish or whatever.

[Adami]

Still, seems like an odd move. If they can obtain perfect fake passports, why use israeli names?


Also, why does no one care that two palestinians have actually been detained for this crime?

[ack44]

link?

[Adami]

link?

Really? Well there's no headlines about it (shocking) but here's a random article about the situation. Skim for it, it's near the middle, close to the end.

https://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100220/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_dubai_hamas_slaying

[ack44]

Well since there's no detail I'm assuming that they were people traveling with al-Mabhouh? Since when do you need so many people for one assassination? Seems riskier that way.

[Adami]

Well since there's no detail I'm assuming that they were people traveling with al-Mabhouh? Since when do you need so many people for one assassination? Seems riskier that way.

They were arrested in jordan.

I also like how since they were palestinian, you assume they were innocents traveling with the victim. But since some of the names on the passports were israeli, that proves the israeli government did it.

[ack44]

Well since there's no detail I'm assuming that they were people traveling with al-Mabhouh? Since when do you need so many people for one assassination? Seems riskier that way.

They were arrested in jordan.

I also like how since they were palestinian, you assume they were innocents traveling with the victim. But since some of the names on the passports were israeli, that proves the israeli government did it.

I like how you assume that I assumed that the Palestinians were innocent. Read my second sentence again.

[Adami]

Unless you're trying to imply that hamas put the hit out on their own man, then saying they were his travel buddies kind of assumes their innosence.

[Super Dude]

why does no one care that two palestinians have actually been detained for this crime?

Because obviously the Jews are to blame.

[AndyDT]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/7280033/How-murder-became-an-accepted-tool-of-foreign-policy.html

[Adami]

Post something of substance or don't post anything at all.

[ack44]

why does no one care that two palestinians have actually been detained for this crime?

Because obviously the Jews are to blame.

 Good post.

[kirbywelch92]

Yes, Israel conducts assassinations. Welcome to the past 6000 years.

Fix'd

[Adami]

Yes, Israel conducts assassinations. Welcome to the past 6000 years.

Fix'd

Israel has been assassinating people for 6000 years?

I...wow.