Author Topic: Israel Assassinations?  (Read 19067 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ack44

  • Banned from P/R
  • *
  • Posts: 1609
  • Gender: Male
  • Wryyyy
Re: Israel murdering?
« Reply #175 on: January 27, 2011, 03:06:56 AM »
I'm not really going to push any further since every time I question your claims you seem to come up with more extreme statements without defending what you said originally, but I do want to make some points.

First, I never said that on one side are the good guys and the other side the bad guys. In my view, no political entity is morally superior to another. Applying morality to the sphere of international relations will only end in a biased conclusion. I'm sure you don't agree with that, but I'm not the one drawing lines in the sand. When I say something is good or bad I'm expressing a point of view from general human interest. In the long run, the Gaza War will have had a negative influence on Israel, imo, because it boosted an enormous amount of hatred towards Israel.

Second, "disproportionate" is subjective, so you're entitled to your opinion. but looking at the figures of casualties, very very few people would be convinced to say it wasn't disproportionate, even if they have preconceived biases one side or the other. And I don't know why you're bringing up the human shields thing again when you were forced to renounce that position in the Gaza war thread. Individual instances, sure. That doesn't account for the hundreds of deaths. Israeli soldiers were also using human shields.

Third, I'm confused as to where you got the idea of the U.N. sanctioning Israel. Sounds absurd to me, considering the U.S. has vetoing rights. Individual companies may have tried to punish Israel economically, but it's really done nothing. Sanctioning would be great though, would be much more effective than Islamist militarism to the cause of peace. No hints of it happening though.

You may have a point on Obama, but I still doubt he was showing public support for the actual scale of military action.

wtf is the internet?

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Israel murdering?
« Reply #176 on: January 27, 2011, 08:39:05 AM »
I'm really not sure what you're looking for; I'm giving you what I know.  This is why I hate discussing this.

And actually Israelis did not use human shields.  I have never found any evidence of that, thankfully.  As to that bit about fewer casualties, my argument stands; numbers don't dictate who's "in the right."
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline ack44

  • Banned from P/R
  • *
  • Posts: 1609
  • Gender: Male
  • Wryyyy
Re: Israel murdering?
« Reply #177 on: January 27, 2011, 09:02:47 AM »
And actually Israelis did not use human shields.  I have never found any evidence of that, thankfully.

And actually, priests never molest young boys and bears don't crap in the woods. I have never found any evidence for either of those, thankfully.

Btw, don't click this link and don't read this entire article.

https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6715417.ece

wtf is the internet?

Offline ack44

  • Banned from P/R
  • *
  • Posts: 1609
  • Gender: Male
  • Wryyyy
Re: Israel murdering?
« Reply #178 on: January 27, 2011, 09:23:10 AM »
No, I mean you can't get married unless you're Orthodox.

I'm more interested in this, actually. Any links?

wtf is the internet?

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Israel murdering?
« Reply #179 on: January 27, 2011, 09:45:51 AM »
I'm not gonna go look for links. My cousin had to get married Cyprus with her husband because they were both Conservative Jews and couldn't either a Jewish ceremony or with a rabbi, or the marriage license itself, I can't remember.
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

  • Myung Protege Wannabe
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8179
  • Gender: Male
  • Maurice Moss: Cooler than you
Re: Israel Assassinations?
« Reply #180 on: January 27, 2011, 11:47:53 AM »
Okay guys. First of all, I changed the thread title because 'murder' doesn't really describe what's happening. Secondly, if you DO use such harsh terminology to describe something, you had better come up with some sort of back up for it. Saying "lol Israel is murdering peoplez lol" is inflammatory and could be construed as baiting.

SD, you've done a helluva job defending yourself, and the only reason I don't jump in more is because I do not have the same knowledge of the subject that you do.

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Israel Assassinations?
« Reply #181 on: January 27, 2011, 11:49:08 AM »
It's okay, even Adami calls me an extremist. :lol

But thank you very much, I really appreciate this. :tup

Also ack you posted a dead link so I couldn't read that article even if I wanted to.
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline 73109

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4999
  • Gender: Male
Re: Israel Assassinations?
« Reply #182 on: January 27, 2011, 12:10:44 PM »
Oy, this thread. :lolpalm:

Offline ehra

  • Posts: 3362
  • Gender: Male
Re: Israel Assassinations?
« Reply #183 on: January 27, 2011, 01:41:43 PM »
It's okay, even Adami calls me an extremist. :lol

But thank you very much, I really appreciate this. :tup

Also ack you posted a dead link so I couldn't read that article even if I wanted to.

It worked for me:

Quote
A group of Israeli soldiers who fought in the recent war in Gaza have testified that the military allowed them to use reckless force.

The 26 soldiers published their anonymous accounts in a booklet compiled by Breaking the Silence, an Israeli soldiers’ organisation.

They describe the Israeli army’s use of human shields and deliberate targeting of civilian structures.

The soldiers’ descriptions confirm information first published by The Times during the offensive that soldiers were given orders to shoot first and ask questions later.

In one typical account, a soldier said that in pre-invasion briefings his officers said it was better to hit an innocent than hesitate to attack an enemy. “If you’re not sure, kill. Fire power was insane.”

“You felt like a child playing around with a magnifying glass, burning up ants,” another Israeli soldier said. “A 20-year-old kid should not be doing such things to people.”

Several Israeli soldiers adescribed the use of white phosphorus in Gaza. One soldier described walking on the beach in Gaza and discovering an area covered in glazed sand from a white phosphorous bomb.

He said it was upsetting because “in training you learn that white phosphorus is not used, and you’re taught that it’s not humane”.

A soldier from the Golani brigade said: “Sometimes a force would enter while placing rifle barrels on a civilian’s shoulder, advancing into a house and using him as a human shield.”

Another soldier related an incident in which he was ordered not to fire warning shots at a man approaching their position from some dozen yards away.

When they asked their commander why he told them not to fire warning shots, he said: “It’s night time and this is a terrorist.”

Israel has blamed Palestinian militant groups for the high death toll in Gaza, stating that they hid explosives in schools, hospitals, and other civilian structures.

They said that Palestinian militants often dressed as civilians and attempted to get close to forces before launching an attack.

More than 1,400 Palestinians died in the three-week offensive. Gaza health officials say 900 of those killed were civilians but Israel says that figure is closer to 300.

Thirteen Israelis were killed, including three civilians who died from rocket fire.

A military spokesman accused the group of “defaming and slandering the IDF [Israel Defence Forces] and its commanders” but said that he would investigate formal complaints of military misconduct.

Offline ack44

  • Banned from P/R
  • *
  • Posts: 1609
  • Gender: Male
  • Wryyyy
Re: Israel murdering?
« Reply #184 on: January 27, 2011, 03:30:02 PM »
I'm not gonna go look for links. My cousin had to get married Cyprus with her husband because they were both Conservative Jews and couldn't either a Jewish ceremony or with a rabbi, or the marriage license itself, I can't remember.

Eh, a quick sweep at a Wikipedia article tells me there are Christian and Muslim weddings too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Israel

wtf is the internet?

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

  • Myung Protege Wannabe
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8179
  • Gender: Male
  • Maurice Moss: Cooler than you
Re: Israel Assassinations?
« Reply #185 on: January 27, 2011, 04:11:29 PM »
I could be wrong, but I think he was referring to Jewish weddings SPECIFICALLY. Not the other religions, which of course exist in Israel.

Offline Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 36224
Re: Israel Assassinations?
« Reply #186 on: January 27, 2011, 04:14:17 PM »
I could be wrong, but I think he was referring to Jewish weddings SPECIFICALLY. Not the other religions, which of course exist in Israel.

As far as I'm aware the government only recognizes marriages performed hallachah. Non jews can get their own ceremony, but I don't the government recognizes it. But Israel does recognize marriages performed in other countries. Including homosexual marriages and grants them the same rights.

By the way SD, you're doing really well. Same with you Ack. I've enjoyed reading all of this, but I'm not going to participate anymore (except for like what I did in this post) because it seems I suck at it. So keep up the good work guys.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Israel Assassinations?
« Reply #187 on: January 27, 2011, 05:55:59 PM »
Yeah I think I'm retiring as of now.
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Israel Assassinations?
« Reply #188 on: January 28, 2011, 06:35:04 PM »
I'll just post here that Israel is a beautiful country. Totally worth a visit.

rumborak
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline ack44

  • Banned from P/R
  • *
  • Posts: 1609
  • Gender: Male
  • Wryyyy
Re: Israel Assassinations?
« Reply #189 on: January 28, 2011, 07:00:58 PM »
And I'll be landing there in approximately one week  :tup

wtf is the internet?

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Israel Assassinations?
« Reply #190 on: January 28, 2011, 07:38:56 PM »
What's the occasion?
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 36224
Re: Israel Assassinations?
« Reply #191 on: January 28, 2011, 07:40:47 PM »
I'll be there in may, perhaps a congregation?
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline ack44

  • Banned from P/R
  • *
  • Posts: 1609
  • Gender: Male
  • Wryyyy
Re: Israel Assassinations?
« Reply #192 on: January 28, 2011, 07:47:19 PM »
I'm only there for a few weeks. It's a tour that my grandparents do every other year or so. The latter part of the tour goes to Egypt, which I wont be a part of but I'm now highly regretting this.

wtf is the internet?

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Israel Assassinations?
« Reply #193 on: January 28, 2011, 11:11:16 PM »
That would be cool, but I'd wait a while longer for things to cool down over there.
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude: