DT's hiatus after the upcoming tour...thoughts on reasoning...

[King Postwhore]

Most established bands take 4 years off between the studio, touring for that album and then the process starting again.

4 years? Yeah, maybe bands like Rush and others that have been around 10 or 20 years more than DT. But since the 80's it's pretty much been a 2 year cycle for many bands.

A little later in my post I said that we've been spoiled by DT with the amount of touring and albums they've done.  DT makes it's money by touring.  That's why they do it so much.

[Perpetual Change]

Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong but Dream Theater have pretty much done TWO World Tours per album for the last decade... right?

[OperantChamber]

Sorry but I'm a bit of a DT noob compared to some of you.
John Petrucci is more inclined to make radio friendly songs?

Yeah.  To this day John has said that he doesn't regret at all the cooperation he gave to the label during the making of Falling Into Infinity, and feels he's improved tremendously by having artists like Desmond Child help him write "singles."

Thanks. Definitely not something I would expect considering Mike's feelings toward the situation.
It's hardly enough evidence to suggest that he is unhappy with DT, though.

[Ytsejammin]

This is a really cool post I think. The KIND THAT i'M INTERESTED IN SEEING MORE OF.

The only thing I have to add is that when it was announced on the site, it left me wanting to know more about the specific band/management reasons for the lack of work in 2010. I don't have the balls to post my own speculation as to the real reasoning, but I would be surprised if it was for artistic reasons.

[Pierced Brosnan]

Interesting thread, though I don't agree really, anything is possible though of course. Many points have already been said and I don't want to just repeat them.

Something I will add though is, if JP (or whoever in the band) was feeling stale by the direction and writing chemistry, surely they wouldn't be so willing to go into the studio and write a new song like they just have.

[Dream Team]

I'm not sure I buy the whole "JP likes to write radio-friendly music" angle. Suspended Animation anyone? Couldn't be LESS radio-friendly. Not to mention, in one of Jordan's interviews he stated that JP loves to push the heaviness envelope. To top it off the guy is never shy about shredding or playing in crazy meters.

[hefdaddy42]

There is no spoon.

[Perpetual Change]

I'm not sure I buy the whole "JP likes to write radio-friendly music" angle. Suspended Animation anyone? Couldn't be LESS radio-friendly. Not to mention, in one of Jordan's interviews he stated that JP loves to push the heaviness envelope. To top it off the guy is never shy about shredding or playing in crazy meters.

TBH my guess is that John is pretty happy as long as what he plays makes it apparent that he's a guitar god.

[Samsara]

Samsara, with all due respect, I think you're overanalyzing nothing to create a scenario that's simply not there.
It's an interesting theory, but I don't see a strong basis for it at all. I don't see any of the guys going this long in their tight DT schedule if they weren't happy, and I have no reason to believe that their current situation is anything other than a financial decision.
PN wouldn't have been all that profitable for them (being split between 4 bands, and some fans waiting for regular shows), and they probably figured they didn't want to wear it out, which would explain why the tour has continued in other parts of the world. It's not all about the US, after all.

Blob,

It might not be there, I'll grant you that. But discussion forums are meant for discussion. I raise the point because I think there is something more there than simply "the economy sucks so we're not touring." It's an opinion, based on a variety of factors I illustrated in my first post.

If you want to disagree with that, that's absolutely fine Blob. Again, it was an opinion. It carries the same weight as you saying to me: "I think you're over analyzing nothing to create a scenario that's simply not there." -- that is your opinion, and who knows what the real truth is. You certainly do not, and I don't either. It's called speculation.

DT gave us their official statement on the downtime. I simply don't believe that's the be-all, end-all truth. And I'm speculating and discussing that opinion.

[Samsara]

Sorry but I'm a bit of a DT noob compared to some of you.
John Petrucci is more inclined to make radio friendly songs?

Yeah.  To this day John has said that he doesn't regret at all the cooperation he gave to the label during the making of Falling Into Infinity, and feels he's improved tremendously by having artists like Desmond Child help him write "singles."

Thanks. Definitely not something I would expect considering Mike's feelings toward the situation.
It's hardly enough evidence to suggest that he is unhappy with DT, though.

THIS (Perpetual's post explaining John's feelings on FII) is one of the things I am talking about. Perhaps DT isn't really all that artistically fulfilling to him. It is to Mike, because Mike is the "creative director" who shapes the band's overall direction. And I'm sure JP LIKES it, but I have to believe that it can wear a little thin on someone who OBVIOUSLY likes mainstream hard rock music and likes to write it (Petrucci).

Again, it's ONE factor in my list of things I brought up to support the overall view that the "economic" reasons behind DT not touring the U.S. with a full on BC&SL headline show is not the full truth. I could be wrong, sure. But I do know this...dealing with someone like MP, even if he's your best friend and business partner, can be rough on someone, particularly in a creative partnership.

As was said above, JP doesn't regret FII one bit, and he shouldn't (in my opinion) because it's a GREAT record. That difference in opinion between JP and MP on that led to MP pretty much doing things his way, in order to stay in the band. JP went along with it (and I'm sure enjoys all the records they've made since then). But maybe, just maybe, JP noticed that doing things the same way for 10 years has left things a little stale.

Not bad, but stale. I think so. I think JP is the main reason behind the break. And again, that's only an uninformed opinion based on observation. If I'm wrong, so be it. I have no ego about it. But it seems awfully clear to me it had more to do with certain folks needing to get away a bit to recharge the batteries and have a fresh perspective on what they want in music.

MP does a world of good for the band, but being a fellow OCD-like guy, I know first hand that guys like MP and myself wear thin on our families and friends once in awhile if we don't back off and allow them their creative space and ability to contribute the way they need. I'm thinking it's one of of those times for Dream Theater.

[antigoon]

I don't necessarily agree with your theory, Samsara, but you made a good thread. I like reading things like this.

I think the business side of things was a part of the decision to not tour the US again, but not the whole thing. I definitely think some burn out could be possible.

[emindead]

Suspended Animation anyone? Couldn't be LESS radio-friendly.

I'm gonna take a huge guess, but when was the FIRST time you heard an instrumetal song in a popular rock radio station?

[antigoon]

Suspended Animation anyone? Couldn't be LESS radio-friendly.

I'm gonna take a huge guess, but when was the FIRST time you heard an instrumetal song in a popular rock radio station?

Exactly. And the solo album realm is completely different from his work with DT.

[Setlist Scotty]

Suspended Animation anyone? Couldn't be LESS radio-friendly.

I'm gonna take a huge guess, but when was the FIRST time you heard an instrumetal song in a popular rock radio station?

I'd say it's been quite a few years. I've *regularly* heard Rush's YYZ as well as Surfing With the Alien; Always with Me, Always with You; The Crush of Love; Back to Shalla-Bal; Summer Song and Why - all from Satriani. And several of those are still played with some regularity on the radio today.

Yeah, instrumental music doesn't appear much on popular rock radio, BUT if that was JP's intention, he wouldn't have written a bunch of songs that run over 6 minutes a piece (7 of the 8 on Suspended Animation are at least over 6 minutes in length).

[tri.ad]

I don't necessarily agree with your theory, Samsara, but you made a good thread. I like reading things like this.

I agree. And it's great to see a thread like this containing discussion on a very civilised level, without dismissing a speculative theory as bullshit just because there's no further proof or because of disagreement (although some people might have come close).

Great thread.

[Dark Master Of Sin]

Honestly, I just think it's because they're planning to make the next N.A. tour completely badass, to the point where it will be the tour that every Dream Theater fan goes to (within reason). Also, when I saw DT at PN09 they were very much BCSL focused, and it seems like they were hoping the NA crowd would be satisfied by that. Having seen them, I was.

[hefdaddy42]

All I will say is that there are almost certainly specifics that didn't make the press release.  But given the fact that subsequent reports from the DT camp have included the fact that future tours will be in the "Evening With" format, and the fact of the recording for God of War, indicates that there are no serious personality conflicts or any other serious issues.  I think the break will be good for them all the way around.

[zmazar]

To be fair, DT DID tour after the album... I would imagine most people who wanted to see DT did so in that time (although I know a few skipped out because they had no interest in the other bands, they were in the minority).

Yes, they did.  But they did not do a "Dream Theater BC&SL headlining tour" in the U.S., their home country, in support of the new album.  They did a "Progressive Nation, feat. Dream Theater, tour," which for all intents and purposes may not be all that different.  But there is still a difference in perception among a lot of fans and people in the industry.

But on their Progressive Nation tour, they played just as long as most bands I've seen play on their headlining tours (80-90 minutes).  So I only feel jipped in comparison to what Dream Theater have done in the past, not in comparison to what comparable bands are doing.  Also, there's no reason to think that DT won't be touring on BC&SL next time around.

I have to agree with Perpetual.  I realize that it wasn't a headlining tour, but I heard half of BCSL, and still got 90 minutes of music.  A headlining tour would have extended the concert by 30 minutes, and while I would have loved that I don't feel cheated.  If you skipped PN10 because you were waiting for the Headlining Tour I think its your own fault.  They're my favorite band, and there's no way I'd miss a show of theirs. 

[BlobVanDam]

Samsara, with all due respect, I think you're overanalyzing nothing to create a scenario that's simply not there.
It's an interesting theory, but I don't see a strong basis for it at all. I don't see any of the guys going this long in their tight DT schedule if they weren't happy, and I have no reason to believe that their current situation is anything other than a financial decision.
PN wouldn't have been all that profitable for them (being split between 4 bands, and some fans waiting for regular shows), and they probably figured they didn't want to wear it out, which would explain why the tour has continued in other parts of the world. It's not all about the US, after all.

Blob,

It might not be there, I'll grant you that. But discussion forums are meant for discussion. I raise the point because I think there is something more there than simply "the economy sucks so we're not touring." It's an opinion, based on a variety of factors I illustrated in my first post.

If you want to disagree with that, that's absolutely fine Blob. Again, it was an opinion. It carries the same weight as you saying to me: "I think you're over analyzing nothing to create a scenario that's simply not there." -- that is your opinion, and who knows what the real truth is. You certainly do not, and I don't either. It's called speculation.

DT gave us their official statement on the downtime. I simply don't believe that's the be-all, end-all truth. And I'm speculating and discussing that opinion.

That's fine. This is a forum, and discussion is always welcome, especially when it's something out of the ordinary, it's just that in my opinion your evidence is weak and your opinion mostly based on speculation. I can address each point if you want.

First of all, their decision not to tour the US again was obviously a hard one for them to make, and not one they took lightly. By the fact their tour has continued in other parts of the world suggests (to me at least) that it was a matter of feeling they'd oversaturated the US market for now. PN didn't go as well as they'd hoped. The reason was a combination of the economy making people cut back on concerts, and people waiting for headlining shows rather than see a shorter set of DT, taking for granted the fact they'd have a second US tour. I don't know how many people fall into the latter group, but they couldn't assume that this was the case, and that they'd have the numbers for a second leg. They tour the US multiple times every tour, every two years, and maybe they felt they'd worn out the crowd a bit. Keep in mind they only cancelled a second US leg, not the whole tour. Many of the shows they've played since have been in places they've never been to, or places they haven't played very often.

As for JP, I don't see any basis for that either. To me the fact that JP hasn't done a lot of outside DT work tells me that he's more artistically satisfied with DT than anyone in the band. He's the main songwriter, he's the one who writes all of these heavy riffs, and the music is more guitar focused than its ever been. And with the current popularity of metal, DT's current direction can fulfill them artistically while still gaining them ever growing popularity. If anyone in DT is happy with their current direction, I'd say it's JP (and MP). With JR, JM and JLB I can hear that there are sides of their musicality that aren't fully utilized in DT leading to their need for solo albums (just look at JR's last two), while I feel that JP has plenty of space to do what he wants to in his soloing and riffing. I feel his solo album is proof of that, as it's not all that far from what DT have been doing recently.
I'm sorry if it felt like I wasn't taking your opinion seriously, but I stick by what I said.

[ack44]

Personally, I think it's healthy when two (or more) members of a band rival for the direction of its sound. 

 Agreed, and this is why Awake is a masterpiece.

[Rich Wilson]

It's an interesting question - the reason for the hiatus - and certainly one I've been thinking about.

I do think that the band just viewed this as the perfect time to take a break. Why bother slogging your guts out on tour for months if you're not going to get paid for it at the end of it? So with the combination of the economy and the guys wanting to get into side projects, it just all made sense. I certainly haven't got any bad vibes about the band not being happy as unit, though in reality you would only find out if there are / were any issues a few years down the line.

[LCArenas]

This is a really good thread. I think that the guys just wanted to do something aside from DT, having done SC, CiM Tour, BCSL & PN08-09 during these years. It's OK for me if they want to take a break and do something individually (Which is also interesting), I think it was about time and the economy crisis might have been a warning for them to take it. Furthermore they can think about some ideas for the next album and spread their creativity instead of doing uninspired albums just because they have to. I think their hiatus won't last too long (2010 and maybe half 2011).

As for JP, even though I don't agree completely with this (I don't think he's uncomfortable with the band being one of the producers and main composers of DT), I also think this break will help him to do whatever he wants to do and then come back to DT to do whatever they want to do.

[bodiesinflight]

Personally I think this doesnae make sense because DT are way more mainstream now than they were 10 years ago. They're a much bigger band and far more metal than they are prog (yes, endless soloing does not a prog song make). I'm not saying this is a bad thing in any way, I still really enjoy DT's albums but I think this makes the theory seem a tad unlikely.

[Perpetual Change]

Couple more things I noticed while looking over the Lifting Shadows book.

As I suspected, under the Mike/John Producer system John is just as much of a creative director as Mike.  In the Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence Section, there's an interview with Jordan explain how John directed him through coming up with most of the main themes of the second disc.  He said John would stand there and tell him, "play something sad. now play the happiest thing you've ever heard" and so on.

That's probably the extened of Mike's creative directing, and it looks like John does it too.  On a side note, we also have all scene how James can get beat up by Mike and John equally whilst recording his vocals.

[TAC]

Suspended Animation anyone? Couldn't be LESS radio-friendly.

I'm gonna take a huge guess, but when was the FIRST time you heard an instrumetal song in a popular rock radio station?

FRANKENSTEIN!!

I certainly haven't got any bad vibes about the band not being happy as unit, though in reality you would only find out if there are / were any issues a few years down the line.

Pimping the 3rd edition already? 

[Perpetual Change]

It's an interesting question - the reason for the hiatus - and certainly one I've been thinking about.

I do think that the band just viewed this as the perfect time to take a break. Why bother slogging your guts out on tour for months if you're not going to get paid for it at the end of it? So with the combination of the economy and the guys wanting to get into side projects, it just all made sense. I certainly haven't got any bad vibes about the band not being happy as unit, though in reality you would only find out if there are / were any issues a few years down the line.

Likewise, it always struck me as strange that the news of James' vocal accident didn't really come out til way later.  What the heck did people think happened to his voice for all that time?

[Martinman300]

I think it would be awesome if they had a break, did some side projects etc, and then cam out with a huge world tour BEFORE DOING ANOTHER ALBUM.

That way they aren't obliged to focus on any album so we can songs like ACOS and stuff played again.

[cygnusx1jg]

I thought the video for Wither (their best, IMO) explained a lot about the duality of touring.  For every enjoyable part (playing the new material, meeting fans, having fun backstage, rock juice, etc) there seems to be an equal not-so-enjoyable part (autographing until your hand feels numb, the bus rides, missing family, arguments, etc.)

These guys deserve a break, no matter if it was "forced" by the record company, suggested by the band itself, or whatever reason.  I think all five will come back, when they come back, with a renewed vigor because of the time off.  Bottom line, good or bad, making music and presenting it live is what they do.

[LCArenas]

I think it would be awesome if they had a break, did some side projects etc, and then cam out with a huge world tour BEFORE DOING ANOTHER ALBUM.

That way they aren't obliged to focus on any album so we can songs like ACOS and stuff played again.

Haven't thought of that, but it's a brilliant idea.

[Ytsejammin]

Quote from Perpetual Change:" Likewise, it always struck me as strange that the news of James' vocal accident didn't really come out til way later.  What the heck did people think happened to his voice for all that time?"

Actually, There's an interview with James in an issue of Neil Elliotts fanzine "Images and Words" from circa '96-'97. In it he says something like, "They were seeing someone with ruptured vocal cords. I want to go back to Europe and redeem myself." Rich Wilson should know about this interview too as Lifting Shadows is heavily compiled from back issues of I&W, TOD and New Voice.

James LaBrie also mentions it on the audio commentary to the "5 Years in a Livetime" DVD .

[bosk1]

Well, that is "way later," is it not?

[inoku]

I remember that they had 7 album contract with ATCO.
what about about their contract with roadrunner? how many albums?

[Setlist Scotty]

what about about their contract with roadrunner? how many albums?

3

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

what about about their contract with roadrunner? how many albums?

3

Now, THAT's something interesting that might span some interesting discussion..

[KevShmev]

  To this day John has said that he doesn't regret at all the cooperation he gave to the label during the making of Falling Into Infinity, and feels he's improved tremendously by having artists like Desmond Child help him write "singles."

Damn he said that?  The help of other artists and whatnot is fine (even great) of course, but he honestly thinks Desmond Child contributed something positive to something he wrote?

Considering Desmond Child is considered a songwriting genius by a lot of people, why wouldn't John Petrucci think that?  Even though the only song he is credited on with the band was a major clunker, it is very likely that some of his ideas and whatnot for writing songs rubbed off on Petrucci and showed up in other songs, and that is what JP is talking about.