Complaining about Queensryche

[TAC]

A band like Dream Theater...they didn't even plan on playing these Maiden dates.
I'd love to have a chat with DT's management team and see their business plan. Because it's exactly the one that QUeensryche SHOULD have used.

Sam, what's your best educated guess as to when it was settled that DT was doing this tour? Where Maiden is invloved, there is a definite plan at work, and it's mostly long term..about 5 years out. So this tour's been planned for some time now..I would assume. Do you really believe that when MP said there would be no summer DT tour, that he did NOT know about the Maiden opportunity? I'm not asking to catch MP in a "gotcha". I'm more interested in how things work, and the timing of these.


Also..thinking about the Tate thing...it's funny because Marc Storace has done a better job enhancing the Krokus brand over the years that Tate has for QR. Also, many of their 80's contemporaries are actually releasing very strong albums these days.

[Samsara]

The Maiden tour was planned, sure (for Maiden). All the logistics were done way ahead of time. But the opening act - highly doubtful in my opinion. So yes, I firmly believe MP that nothing was planned for DT this summer. I would imagine about a month or six weeks prior to the announcement, DT was contacted and asked. Remember, DT isn't even getting soundcheck on that tour, which means it's just plug in and play. DT wasn't part of the "planning process" in my opinion regarding the tour. The opener was decided after everything was planned.

I'm not saying DT didn't know Maiden was going out. But what I am saying is that Maiden didn't "plan" to have DT on the tour well in advance. Maybe six weeks prior to the announcement.

[TAC]

OK.good enough!

[Samsara]

Also..thinking about the Tate thing...it's funny because Marc Storace has done a better job enhancing the Krokus brand over the years that Tate has for QR. Also, many of their 80's contemporaries are actually releasing very strong albums these days.

Queensryche had that opportunity - twice. When DeGarmo left in 1997, the band had an opportunity to get the right guitar player and reinvent themselves. Instead, they picked Gray (Tate did) because Gray and Tate were in a prog metal band before Queensryche called Myth. Problem is, Gray, although he used to be very influenced by Richie Blackmore, and could really, really shred like him, couldn't play like that any longer. So the songs got screwed up, the songwriting suffered, and in the end, it failed.

So, when that ended in 2001, they had another opportunity to find the right guy. The thought about Chris, Chris worked with them in 2002 and 2003, and then he left again because of what I believe is Susan Tate's refusal to give up power, along with some changes in the band members' personalities.

At that point, Queensryche had an opportunity to really go out, (talking early 2003 here) make a laundry list of guitar players, and try them out and audition them. QR's profile was still high and they really could have gotten someone well suited to them at that point in time, had they tried.

Instead, they decided to go cheap with mike stone, and ignore the problem within the band - writing chemistry. The result? The producer and Tate wrote Mindcrime II. LOL. And now, without Stone, it continues. They went cheaper, with some kid that is Tate's son in law, who frankly, at least cares about playing the parts of DeGarmo right, but he's just not the right fit at all.

The band could have been a powerhouse again had they taken the time to do it right and committed to a long term plan. Instead, it was "shit, lets grab someone, and go out and tour now, to milk the cow." And they haven't broken free from that cycle since.

[Dr. SeaWolf]

It's really so sad... with the right moves they could've bounced back from HITNF and redefined themselves, in the way DT did with SFAM.

[contest_sanity]

It's really so sad... with the right moves they could've bounced back from HITNF and redefined themselves, in the way DT did with SFAM.

And I actually liked most of HITNF, so they didn't have all that far to bounce back for me personally.  But then I bought Q2K and was like wtf?

[Dr. SeaWolf]

Well, most DT fans are the same way about FII.  It's a good album, just a significant step down from Awake.  Luckily, they bounced back in a big way with SFAM.

[contest_sanity]

Well, most DT fans are the same way about FII.  It's a good album, just a significant step down from Awake.  Luckily, they bounced back in a big way with SFAM.

I thought about that possible parallel, but I'm in the extreme minority of preferring FII over SFAM.  Without question, though, SFAM is considered by many to be the epitome of DT, whereas Q2K?  Um... no.

[Samsara]

Well, most DT fans are the same way about FII.  It's a good album, just a significant step down from Awake.  Luckily, they bounced back in a big way with SFAM.

I thought about that possible parallel, but I'm in the extreme minority of preferring FII over SFAM. 

I'm with ya on that one.

[contest_sanity]

Well, most DT fans are the same way about FII.  It's a good album, just a significant step down from Awake.  Luckily, they bounced back in a big way with SFAM.

I thought about that possible parallel, but I'm in the extreme minority of preferring FII over SFAM. 

I'm with ya on that one.

Really?  Well now I don't feel so alone.

[Samsara]

Well, most DT fans are the same way about FII.  It's a good album, just a significant step down from Awake.  Luckily, they bounced back in a big way with SFAM.

I thought about that possible parallel, but I'm in the extreme minority of preferring FII over SFAM. 

I'm with ya on that one.

Really?  Well now I don't feel so alone.

I don't want to derail the thread too much, but yes, really. FII is much more dynamic and the sound and production is 10x superior. Songs are better too, on FII.

[El JoNNo]

I don't know if I could get back into QR as long as Geoff sings the way he does. Seriously the guy is a mere shadow of what he once was.

[hefdaddy42]

I'm just reading all this now for the first time.  All I can say is that Tate is crazier than I thought he was.  Also, I feel bad for you, Samsara (and you too, bosky). 

[Dittomist]

Yes, it's super upsetting to see what what's going on in the Queensryche camp these days. I never thought they would remind me of Spinal Tap, because for so long they seemed so serious, classy, intelligent, and confident. I've been a devoted fan since 1990 but this Cabaret tour might be the last straw. I hope they spend a lot of time in the studio because it's going to take a very strong, complex album to win over many of the fans they have alienated and frustrated over the past couple years.

I actually thought Operation Mindcrime II was a great comeback, full of passion and energy, and I don't think there is a weak track on the whole album. I also think Here in the Now Frontier is really underrated--I know it's many steps below their classics, but I think it has a lot to offer. Q2K also isn't as worthless as many people say. I can't really defend Tribe or American Soldier though, with the exception of some pretty decent tracks (The Art of Life, Desert Dance, Dead Man's Words, Home Again, Hundred Mile Stair).

Has Wilton or Eddie been interviewed lately, and if so, have they commented at all about Queensryche's current direction?

[Nick]

It's hard to say there is a single weak track on OMII when the entire album after Murderer is as equally weak as the next.

[Samsara]

I actually thought Operation Mindcrime II was a great comeback, full of passion and energy, and I don't think there is a weak track on the whole album.

Problem is, other than Tate, and two simple riffs by Wilton (The Hands, Murderer), no one in Queensryche wrote the songs for that album. "Hostage," which was a track intended for Tribe (it was finished right after the songs were submitted to the label for that album), was written by Jackson/Tate/Wilton...but they changed the ripping Wilton solo in the Tribe-era version and put in all that courtroom bullshit, and that harmonized solo which changed the coolness of the cut.

Simply put, Mindcrime II is in no way a "Queensryche" album except in name. Neither is American Soldier. Wilton and Jackson didn't write a thing, all the songs were by the producer, Jason Slater, and in some cases, Kelly Gray (there were two leftover tracks from Rockenfield's band with Damon Johnson, Slave to the System, that were also used).

It's not QUEENSRYCHE any more. Not the way it was. It's now Geoff Tate with the other guys just playing what they're given to play. Hopefully that will change, but I doubt it.

I also think Here in the Now Frontier is really underrated--I know it's many steps below their classics, but I think it has a lot to offer.

It is still at the bottom of the original lineup's catalog, but it does have some good guitar work and decent songs on there, yeah.

Q2K also isn't as worthless as many people say.

A handful of decent tracks. The b-side "Howl" is probably the strongest of them, along with Liquid Sky and When the Rain Comes. "RIght Side" is good too, but I think it's a bit overrated. Still, it is one of the best on the record.

I can't really defend Tribe or American Soldier though, with the exception of some pretty decent tracks (The Art of Life, Desert Dance, Dead Man's Words, Home Again, Hundred Mile Stair).

Tribe is incomplete. The song "Justified" which is on the Sign of the Times: The Very Best of Queensryche, is a Tribe leftover that wasn't quite finished before Chris left. He finished it with Tate a couple years ago. Also, the aforementioned demo version of Hostage should have been on there too. If you delete "Losing Myself" (the only non-original lineup written song on Tribe), and add those two, it's a pretty darn good album. Do yourself a favor and re-listen to the song "Falling Behind." Take note of the style the music...it builds and has some really good Queensryche-sounding stuff in there.

Has Wilton or Eddie been interviewed lately, and if so, have they commented at all about Queensryche's current direction?

Tate does most, if not all the QR interviews these days, probably because of that. Plus, Wilton and Jackson aren't going to derail their only legitimate source of income by rocking the boat. Tate has them by the balls. They know it, he knows it. And it isn't Geoff as much as it is his wife, Yoko Ono...I mean Susan Tate.

[bosk1]

[Samsara]

That pretty much sums it up, bosky.

[GuineaPig]

An amusing comment was made by Janick Gers in a recent interview. 

"On whether he foresaw still being a part of IRON MAIDEN 20 years later when he joined the band in 1990:

"It's been fun, and as long as we enjoy it and it feels valid and the fans are still coming and we have great concerts, I'd like to carry on. And the minute I don't enjoy it and we don't deliver, I wouldn't want to carry on as a parody act doing a cabaret show.""


 

[Zook]

Eddie Bait just owned.