Author Topic: Mass Effect (merged thread)  (Read 68763 times)

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Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #560 on: March 20, 2012, 02:03:03 PM »
The Horrible - I hate to be a part of the whiny internet community that is dominating discussion of ME3, but I gotta admit, I really hated the ending. I try to make sure I approach all art and entertainment without expectations or hopes, but in the case of the ME series where I ended up investing 60+ hours in a single save file and developing real relationships with the characters, I couldn't help but develop some hope that I would see what happens to them. I also wanted to see what happens to Shepard. Basically, I wanted a happy ending with lots of closure that would make me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

The ending that we actually got was just so unsatisfying. It has left me with no desire to replay ME3 anytime soon, whereas the second I finished both ME1 and ME2 for the first time I was starting a new game. I also feel like the volume of what is required of the player to achieve the best ending is so large that it makes me not want to even try. I completed 80% of the side quests in the game and still my Effective Military Strength was only at 2800. I don't mind playing multiplayer to boost that but right now I'm trying to save money so I don't have Xbox Live Gold.

Am I sounding a little self-entitled right now? Probably, and I apologize for it. I just feel that the ending sucked. It was really really bad, and makes the entirety of ME3 seem somewhat pointless.

Conclusion - Up until the ending, the game is almost perfect and has many perfect moments. The ending, however, left such a bad taste in my mouth. It made me feel sad that I will never know on any level what will happen to these characters I have come to love, and it made me feel discouraged to play the game again because it made what I'd done seem pointless.


Nope, this doesn't make you seem entitled at all. You're expressing what you didn't like about it in a very good manner. If only everyone else bitching about the ending did it in this way and not going off and even insulting BioWare people over Twitter.
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #561 on: March 20, 2012, 05:27:10 PM »
Ugh. The more I think about it the more I dislike the ending. It's totally rid me of any desire to replay the series. I'm sure my feelings will pass but damn am I disappointed...
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Offline Omega

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #562 on: March 20, 2012, 08:00:36 PM »
Do you guys think it should be changed / amended / etc?
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Offline ehra

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #563 on: March 20, 2012, 08:06:29 PM »
It "should" be changed / amended / added to (more DLC?) if the developers decide on their own terms that's where they want to take the story. The petitions and "demands" are BS.

Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #564 on: March 20, 2012, 08:33:42 PM »
Do you guys think it should be changed / amended / etc?
Changed? If that's the way BioWare intended it to end from the get go, then no. Doing it just because they caved to fans sets a scary precedent for the future.

Amended? I wouldn't mind a little more detail to what happens to everybody.
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #565 on: March 20, 2012, 09:31:35 PM »
Demanding that the ending be changed is definitely a little ridiculous. Personally, I'd love to see it changed, but I understand that's unrealistic.
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #566 on: March 21, 2012, 11:04:50 AM »
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Offline AcidLameLTE

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #567 on: March 21, 2012, 11:15:26 AM »
Good response.

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #568 on: March 21, 2012, 11:43:56 AM »
I just wish the game ended as soon as Anderson Dies.
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #569 on: March 21, 2012, 12:26:26 PM »
What I don't understand about the ending is why BioWare felt the need to make it so complicated. I understand that it was 100% their right to do so, but it was totally unnecessary. Why have this huge revelation at the end of the game with the God-child and then have the Normandy crew get stranded on some random jungle planet so you can make biblical references? Why not just have a simple ending where you either beat the Reapers or you don't and then show what comes of the universe in an epilogue or something?

Mass Effect always had a conventional story. Ending the series the way they did - completely unconventionally - made no sense. :lol

EDIT: While I am in a ranting mood - I was thinking about it last night, and BioWare could have repeated the suicide mission from Mass Effect 2 for Mass Effect 3 and it would have been totally awesome. I think most people would have been satisfied.

So, to start the suicide mission, you rally your squad mates together and give certain characters certain responsibilities; for example, you tell one character to go in the vents and one character to lead the rest of the squad. Later, you tell one character to use his/her barrier.

This is an idea that could have been easily applied to Mass Effect 3. Before approaching Earth, there could have been a sequence where you plan your attack with all your allies. During this sequence, you would have to pick certain species for attacking on the ground, certain species for support, certain species for air strikes, etc. Whether or not the Reapers destroy you could be based on how many allies you have and whether you use them correctly or not.

To end the suicide mission, you are given a simple choice: Destroy or keep the Collector base.

This is another idea that could have been easily applied to Mass Effect 3. Before using the Crucible, there could have been a sequence where it is revealed to Commander Shepard that the Crucible has the power not only to destroy the Reapers, but also to control them. Boom. Decision time.

Using these two decision-making sequences, BioWare could have easily designed some distinctly different endings. In one, you could lose to the Reapers because you didn't have enough allies or didn't use them correctly. In another, you could beat the Reapers by controlling them. In another, you could beat the Reapers by destroying them.

During any of these endings, cut scenes could be changed depending on what roles you assigned each race; for example, if you made the krogans your ground troops, you would see them kicking ass, whereas if you made the salarians your ground troops, you would see them getting their asses kicked. There would also be a lot of opportunity here for surprise appearances by the elcor or rachni.

To provide closure, epilogues could be designed elaborating on the fate of each species. So, if you allied yourself with the krogan and cured the genophage, it would be explained that the krogan are thriving. If Wrex is their leader, it could be explained that they are repairing their relationship with the rest of the galaxy, whereas if Wreave is their leader, it could be explained that tensions are rising with the rest of the galaxy. If you did not ally yourself with the krogan or cure the genophage, then it could be explained that the krogan are fucked and preparing to kill everyone. Whatever.

I'm just spit-balling now. All I'm trying to show is that even it would have been so easy to come up with a semi-satisfying ending. Man am I bitter. :lol
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 12:47:38 PM by TheOutlawXanadu »
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #570 on: March 22, 2012, 05:45:24 PM »
This is another idea that could have been easily applied to Mass Effect 3. Before using the Crucible, there could have been a sequence where it is revealed to Commander Shepard that the Crucible has the power not only to destroy the Reapers, but also to control them. Boom. Decision time.
Did you and I play a different version or something? I did have that exact choice (plus a third option). I think the number of options may have something to do with your EMS and paragon level maybe? I didn't play any multplayer at all but had all 3 options at my disposal.

Also, I firmly disagree that the series ever had a "conventional story". Since the first game I've loved all the mythological elements.

I can honestly say I have no idea what all the fuss is about with this ending. I know there are a number of different endings (I don't just mean the 3 choices, apparently depending on what else you have done throughout the series, different clips will play in the closing sequences) but I saw Shepard die and the rest of the crew survive, and I thought it was rather nicely done.

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #571 on: March 22, 2012, 05:47:16 PM »
Do you guys think it should be changed / amended / etc?
I absolutely 100% do NOT think it should be changed.

If they wanted to respond by, say, adding some free DLC that expands on the ending more, to provide that extra closure that so many people seem to want, I'd have no problem with that, but I don't think it's entirely necessary either.

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Offline XJDenton

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #572 on: March 22, 2012, 06:02:55 PM »
I think they should change it, simply because if they spend some time on it I reckon they can make the overall narrative stronger.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #573 on: March 22, 2012, 06:07:36 PM »
I think they should change it, simply because if they spend some time on it I reckon they can make the overall narrative stronger.
The ending in general is clearly the story they wanted to tell, so I think it would be weak to change it.

However, given how many people are upset by the ending, I think it could be in their interest to provide additional cut scenes that vary more depending on what choices you've made. Apparently there's an element of this already, but most people think it's not enough (I've only played through once, so wouldn't know).

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Offline XJDenton

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #574 on: March 22, 2012, 06:15:45 PM »
I really don't think it is though. It contradicts so much information and promotional material that was released in the months before release,

SPOILERS

and overall the introduction of the star child, and the facts of the reasoning behind the periodic omnicide, and the fact the mass relays get destroyed comes off as severely stunted. When shepherd is told about the Mass Relay destuction, that is that. No argument, no debating, just acceptance and a small walk to one of your endings.

The whole ending seems like it was either rushed or simply written by a less capable team than standard. Hell, mass effect 2 did a better job of demonstrating consequence and that was limited by the fact there was another game to come after it.

Obviously this is pure conjecture, but it wouldn't be the first time a publisher pushed an ambitious game out before it was ready.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 06:21:13 PM by XJDenton »
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #575 on: March 22, 2012, 06:25:31 PM »
Woah, check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck&feature=player_embedded#! (SPOILERS obviously)

Kinda convincing. Interesting to see what happens with whatever Bioware decide to do DLC-wise.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 08:21:48 AM by ariich »

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #576 on: March 23, 2012, 08:21:34 AM »
Another good article covering much of the same theory, with an extra bit at the end that is quite mind-blowing if correct - SPOILERS AGAIN - https://uninhibitedandunrepentant.tumblr.com/post/19344938387/mind-holy-fuck

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Offline ACID_FOX

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #577 on: March 23, 2012, 08:33:08 AM »
Just sounds like fans trying to cope with a shitty ending.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #578 on: March 23, 2012, 09:10:28 AM »
We'll see. So many of the details stack up though. Why would a series that has been consistent and logical for 100+ hours suddenly have things that make no sense in the last 20 minutes.

Perfect little example: Upon waking after being hit by the beam, why are there suddenly loads of trees and shrubs, like in his dreams? They weren't there before.

I'm not entirely convinced they've got it exactly right, but a lot of it stacks up and I feel like they're definitely onto something. Very excited to see how it plays out. Although given the ferocity of the reactions, I think it would be very much in their interests to offer any expansion on the ending for free, rather than charging for DLC.

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Offline ACID_FOX

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #579 on: March 23, 2012, 09:15:46 AM »
Oh yeah it does make absolute sense, and I hope to god it's true, I just don't think it is.
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Offline abydos

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #580 on: March 23, 2012, 10:57:53 AM »
If that theory is true then I think it would be an even lamer way to end the series.
I think it's mostly fans trying to make sense of the complete bullshit that the real one is and give somewhat justified reasons for all tne inconsistencies and plotholes that come out of something 2 guys made up in a room after an hour of thinking about it.

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #582 on: March 23, 2012, 11:25:09 AM »
The blog it refers to was already posted on the last page, and actually he basically said they're not going to change it, but to expand on / add to it. This is why you should post source material rather than the media's misrepresentation of it. :P

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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #583 on: March 23, 2012, 11:32:36 AM »
Indeed! :lol I saw it on Facebook, so...
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #584 on: March 23, 2012, 01:13:24 PM »
This is another idea that could have been easily applied to Mass Effect 3. Before using the Crucible, there could have been a sequence where it is revealed to Commander Shepard that the Crucible has the power not only to destroy the Reapers, but also to control them. Boom. Decision time.
Did you and I play a different version or something? I did have that exact choice (plus a third option). I think the number of options may have something to do with your EMS and paragon level maybe? I didn't play any multplayer at all but had all 3 options at my disposal.
Yes, this was my case too. If you get your EMS over 3500 you get all 3 options. I believe I read that the lower the level, the less decisions you have or you have no choice at all.

Another good article covering much of the same theory, with an extra bit at the end that is quite mind-blowing if correct - SPOILERS AGAIN - https://uninhibitedandunrepentant.tumblr.com/post/19344938387/mind-holy-fuck
Interesting read... but THAT would completely pissed me off if true.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #586 on: March 23, 2012, 01:56:43 PM »
Yeah saw that in the video games thread. It is one of the things I find a bit disappointing, the other being the lack of any real clarity. However, copypasta from a facebook post I made:

I'm starting to wonder if they always intended to leave it ambiguous, at least at first, only to then add more with some DLC later.

Although as I said before, they won't really have any choice but to offer it for free now.

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Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #587 on: March 23, 2012, 10:58:40 PM »
I have no problems with the ending.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #588 on: March 24, 2012, 05:57:26 AM »
I actually have less of a problem with the choices the ending poses to you (which is not to say that I don't have a problem with those choices, mind you) than I do with the lame explanation given for why the Reapers attack every 50k years.

I mean what sort of logic is that? Organic life kills itself by developing synthetic life which rises up and kills its creators, so we've decided to save organic life by, uh, killing them?
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Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #589 on: March 24, 2012, 08:26:20 AM »
I mean what sort of logic is that? Organic life kills itself by developing synthetic life which rises up and kills its creators, so we've decided to save organic life by, uh, killing them?
Dude!! But they're harvesting them and keeping them "alive" inside immortal Reaper bodies... or some bullshit like that.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #590 on: March 24, 2012, 11:42:12 AM »
No the idea is that synthetics would wipe out ALL organic life, but they prevent this by harvesting only the most advanced races.

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Offline ACID_FOX

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #591 on: March 24, 2012, 11:59:50 AM »
Yeah, a 'killing hundreds to save thousands' kind of thing...still stupid.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #592 on: March 27, 2012, 04:19:01 PM »
Lots of massive (and I mean massive) spoilers about the state of the Milky Way post-ME3 to follow, would censor them but A. I'm too drunk to navigate the BB-Code, and B. If you're clicking a thread called "Mass Effect 3" a full month or so after the game's been released and then reading past this warning, you're kind of bringing it on yourself.
I mean what sort of logic is that? Organic life kills itself by developing synthetic life which rises up and kills its creators, so we've decided to save organic life by, uh, killing them?
Dude!! But they're harvesting them and keeping them "alive" inside immortal Reaper bodies... or some bullshit like that.
Yeah, the point is the preservation of genetic code. Compare the Encyclopod from Futurama. It's the same thing. Just... with more Kelly Chambers flavoured smoothies.

(Which does beg the question, if the Reapers resemble the species they assimilate - "why have the Reapers been harvesting so many cuttlefish?")

Didn't mind the ending, though. I didn't like it - found it horrendously upsetting, it felt like losing a friend, absolutely heartbreaking - but it was beautiful, and it closed everything nicely. I don't mind the effects of my decisions being left off-screen. I was kind of expecting it, it's the end of the game. That's what it means. Things stop. Agonising to destroy the community I'd loved, but Tuchanka's still thriving with or without FTL travel, the geth get to chill on Rannoch as they absolutely deserve to, I'll have saved what's left of Palaven... maybe it's just me, but knowing that my Shepard everything better was absolutely grand. I don't need a shot of krogan hordes to know that the genophage is cured, I understood the gravity of the decision when I made it, that's why I made the decision.

I don't think it was perfect; it was all a little quick, Joker's actions were a little odd, my military strength didn't make a massive difference, and I'm not at all convinced that war is any more inevitable between synthetics and organics as it is between any other two factions. But what mattered is that the Reapers believed that it was inevitable. It wasn't a fact, just their motivation! And sure, the geth had proven themselves to be a peaceful race and united with organics to fight the Reapers at least in my timeline, but if I were a Reaper and I'd witnessed the cycle repeating itself in one way or another over the last X-billion years, I'd believe it was inevitable, too. It's not a fact as much as a motivation, and that's a huge distinction that a lot of the more, er, vicious "fans" don't seem to be in a hurry to recognise. Honestly, if you asked me what my biggest gripe about the game was, I'd probably say "those lines you get, just every now and then, where the voice actors clearly haven't quite understood the context of the line and they've ended up emphasising the wrong word" - and that's a tiny, tiny thing. I don't know if the ending would even make the top three.

Frankly, when I look back on Mass Effect 3, I'll be remembering the characters, the increasing sense of doom, the storytelling, the Reapers attacking Earth (with that music), watching my old team kill themselves one by one as the situation becomes more and more desperate - it's a masterclass in storytelling, worldbuilding, and building up beautiful characters only to crush them with fire. Mordin, singing away, saving the krogan! Tali, driven to suicide by her race's insistence on war. And ohhhh, the conversation with Garrus in London - broke my heart. Find me a more immersive story and I'll tell you "no, sorry, try again" - this franchise is the pinnacle. Blazing trails in the field of modern storytelling; no franchise has ever used technology so deftly to tell such a flexible and all-consuming story. I'll always be a Mass Effect fan.

Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #593 on: April 03, 2012, 03:06:30 PM »
^ Agreed. You are a wise man.

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (merged)
« Reply #594 on: April 06, 2012, 04:27:14 AM »
https://investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=662095 - press release about additional content.

Quote
BioWare Announces Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut
Free DLC Pack to Provide Additional Cinematic Scenes to the Ending of Mass Effect 3 this Summer

REDWOOD CITY, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- BioWare, a Label of Electronic Arts Inc. announced Mass Effect™ 3: Extended Cut, a downloadable content pack that will expand upon the events at the end of the critically acclaimed Action RPG. Through additional cinematic sequences and epilogue scenes, the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut will give fans seeking further clarity to the ending of Mass Effect 3 deeper insights into how their personal journey concludes. Coming this summer, the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut will be available for download on the Xbox 360® videogame and entertainment system, PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system and PC for no extra charge*.

"We are all incredibly proud of Mass Effect 3 and the work done by Casey Hudson and team," said Dr. Ray Muzyka, Co-Founder of BioWare and General Manager of EA's BioWare Label. "Since launch, we have had time to listen to the feedback from our most passionate fans and we are responding. With the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut we think we have struck a good balance in delivering the answers players are looking for while maintaining the team's artistic vision for the end of this story arc in the Mass Effect universe."

Casey Hudson, Executive Producer of the Mass Effect series added, "We have reprioritized our post-launch development efforts to provide the fans who want more closure with even more context and clarity to the ending of the game, in a way that will feel more personalized for each player."
Good stuff! I'm glad they're not completely changing the ending but adding to it and making it more personalised. Very interested to see what they come up with!

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