Author Topic: Spock's Beard  (Read 146747 times)

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Offline RoeDent

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1155 on: March 07, 2017, 09:46:58 AM »
Spock's Beard have been the band to prove to me that a band can change their singer and still maintain the same momentum. To me, a band's singer is, in more ways than one, the true voice of the band. You can change any of the instrumentalists and their instruments will sound essentially the same. But as the human voice is so unique to each individual, there is an enormous and very obvious difference when a different singer joins the band. The fact that Spock's have managed to change their singer twice and still maintain what makes me enjoy their music should earn them all of our respect.

Online The Letter M

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1156 on: March 07, 2017, 11:09:23 AM »
I strongly disagree because the last two records with Ted were better than most of the NDV fronted records, only X was better.

And for me:

V was the best Neal fronted record
X was the best Nick fronted record, so they have to at least stick together till they can release
XV and it will be the best Ted fronted record

 :biggrin:

Part of me really wants them to put out 3 more albums, if only to end on a high note with the inevitably titled XV. That'd give Ted a 5-album run with the Beard, and a solid chunk of the band's history. But we've got to get through SB13 (hopefully this year) and SB14 first. Even if their next couple of albums are just for the studio only and they don't really tour, I'd be ok with that, since they all have day-jobs anyway, with touring being a side-venture. Just make great music with great performances as they have been. And I agree, BNADS and TOP are two really strong albums, and I'd rate them nearly as high as some of the Neal-era albums!

Maybe by Morsefest 2020, the band will have released their 14th album, perform a concert in celebration of The Light's 25th anniversary, and then announce they'll do XV and call it a day. :lol

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Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1157 on: March 07, 2017, 01:13:06 PM »
You can change any of the instrumentalists and their instruments will sound essentially the same.

Really? You're saying this in a Dream Theater forum?  :D
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1158 on: March 07, 2017, 01:14:37 PM »
 :lol
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1159 on: March 07, 2017, 07:16:58 PM »
It's quiet around them because they're busy making a one hour soap-opera-documentary about the drummer search.

It wouldn't surprise me if it was quiet around them because the band is coming to an end.  I could maybe see them hanging on as a part-time band that does the occasional show like at the cruise, but their days as a full-time band are over.


You shut your whore mouth!

I will not. :P

I got the impression that they are some kind of part-time band for several years. They all do other stuff and if I remember correctly Dave Meros said in an interview years ago that he was playing in a cover band to pay the rent because SB wasn't profitable enough.

Yep.  If you are a drummer looking for a band, why would you take the Spock's job?  It's basically a part time (at best) job now, and one that probably isn't profitable at all. It's just not an attractive gig anymore.

I strongly disagree because the last two records with Ted were better than most of the NDV fronted records, only X was better.


I definitely agree about Brief Nocturnes and Dreamless Sleep; that album is pretty awesome, bonus tracks and all.  The Oblivion Particle was good, but just not great.  I think Brief Nocturnes and Dreamless Sleep and X are both among their best.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1160 on: March 08, 2017, 04:24:03 AM »
Part of me really wants them to put out 3 more albums, if only to end on a high note with the inevitably titled XV. That'd give Ted a 5-album run with the Beard, and a solid chunk of the band's history. But we've got to get through SB13 (hopefully this year) and SB14 first. Even if their next couple of albums are just for the studio only and they don't really tour, I'd be ok with that, since they all have day-jobs anyway, with touring being a side-venture. Just make great music with great performances as they have been. And I agree, BNADS and TOP are two really strong albums, and I'd rate them nearly as high as some of the Neal-era albums!

Maybe by Morsefest 2020, the band will have released their 14th album, perform a concert in celebration of The Light's 25th anniversary, and then announce they'll do XV and call it a day. :lol

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Offline RoeDent

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1161 on: March 08, 2017, 05:30:16 AM »
You can change any of the instrumentalists and their instruments will sound essentially the same.

Really? You're saying this in a Dream Theater forum?  :D

Yes I am. No matter who's playing it, guitars will always sound like guitars. Drums will always sound like drums. Bass will always sound like bass. Whereas singers all sound different from each other. You change the singer and you change the sound of the band. What is the main reason for WDADU not being as well liked as all the other DT albums? It's the singer. It's obviously the singer. OK, there would be a difference in terms of seeing a different guy on stage at concerts, but studio albums (the band's real legacy and currency; when they're all dead and gone, the albums will remain) are largely unaffected by a change of instrumentalist.

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1162 on: March 08, 2017, 05:36:22 AM »
So if you switch from John Petrucci to maybe Kirk Hammett the band would still sound the same?  :biggrin:
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1163 on: March 08, 2017, 06:10:35 AM »
You can change any of the instrumentalists and their instruments will sound essentially the same.

Really? You're saying this in a Dream Theater forum?  :D

Yes I am. No matter who's playing it, guitars will always sound like guitars. Drums will always sound like drums. Bass will always sound like bass. Whereas singers all sound different from each other. You change the singer and you change the sound of the band. What is the main reason for WDADU not being as well liked as all the other DT albums? It's the singer. It's obviously the singer. OK, there would be a difference in terms of seeing a different guy on stage at concerts, but studio albums (the band's real legacy and currency; when they're all dead and gone, the albums will remain) are largely unaffected by a change of instrumentalist.

A swing and a miss.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1164 on: March 08, 2017, 06:16:29 AM »
That is such a bizarre opinion, I can't quite believe he is serious.
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Offline RoeDent

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1165 on: March 08, 2017, 07:17:35 AM »
That is such a bizarre opinion, I can't quite believe he is serious.

Whatever. I know what I mean. I'm used to not being understood.

Offline romdrums

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1166 on: March 08, 2017, 07:25:57 AM »
So if you switch from John Petrucci to maybe Kirk Hammett the band would still sound the same?  :biggrin:

 :lol :rollin
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Offline Mindflux

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1167 on: March 08, 2017, 07:29:57 AM »
Well that's an interesting opinion.

How'd that work out for Queensryche when DeGarmo left?
 :rollin

Offline Orbert

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1168 on: March 08, 2017, 08:21:48 AM »
That is such a bizarre opinion, I can't quite believe he is serious.

Whatever. I know what I mean. I'm used to not being understood.

I don't think people are misunderstanding you; I think they understand what you're saying but don't agree with it.

"No matter who's playing it, guitars will always sound like guitars. Drums will always sound like drums. Bass will always sound like bass."  You seem to be saying that singers each have a distinct sound, but instrumentalists do not.  And that's just not true.

Offline goo-goo

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1169 on: March 08, 2017, 09:28:26 AM »
Well that's an interesting opinion.

How'd that work out for Queensryche when DeGarmo left?
 :rollin

DeGarmo had a very particular sound with QR and it's definitely missed.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1170 on: March 08, 2017, 09:39:22 AM »
That is such a bizarre opinion, I can't quite believe he is serious.

Whatever. I know what I mean. I'm used to not being understood.

I don't think people are misunderstanding you; I think they understand what you're saying but don't agree with it.

"No matter who's playing it, guitars will always sound like guitars. Drums will always sound like drums. Bass will always sound like bass."  You seem to be saying that singers each have a distinct sound, but instrumentalists do not.  And that's just not true.
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Online The Letter M

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1171 on: March 08, 2017, 09:54:13 AM »
Perhaps, for Roe, the music doesn't really stand out, in terms of instrumental sound and over-all performance, but is just a backing for the vocals of a song, and so little attention is paid to the details of an instrumental performer, their style and feel, the minutiae of their playing is lost because it's all simply just a backing track for the more up-front vocals of a piece. It's not that the instrumentalists aren't important, but perhaps they are just not a part of Roe's focus when it comes to music, and so, instruments will sound like instruments, regardless of who is playing them?

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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1172 on: March 08, 2017, 09:59:57 AM »
an easy example is would Rush become how they were if Neil Peart did  not join the band?  Is his drumming different than John Rutsey's on the first album?
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Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1173 on: March 08, 2017, 10:12:54 AM »
You can change any of the instrumentalists and their instruments will sound essentially the same.

Really? You're saying this in a Dream Theater forum?  :D

Yes I am. No matter who's playing it, guitars will always sound like guitars. Drums will always sound like drums. Bass will always sound like bass. Whereas singers all sound different from each other. You change the singer and you change the sound of the band. What is the main reason for WDADU not being as well liked as all the other DT albums? It's the singer. It's obviously the singer. OK, there would be a difference in terms of seeing a different guy on stage at concerts, but studio albums (the band's real legacy and currency; when they're all dead and gone, the albums will remain) are largely unaffected by a change of instrumentalist.

I couldn't agree less  :biggrin:
First of all, I dont think that WD&DU is the least liked album by DT. But if it was, then I think it would be because of the overall poor sound. Compositions are great, I have nothing against Charlie's vocals.

What is the reason people listen to Dire Straits? When I heard Steely Dan's Time Out Of Mind for the first time, I heard the FIRST note of the guitar and said out loud "this is Mark Knopfler".
Listen to the immense difference between, say, Bill Bruford and Alan White, Geoff Downes, Rick Wakeman and Patrick Moraz. Mike Rutherford's guitar and Steve Hackett's guitar. MANGINI AND PORTNOY.
What would Santana be without Carlos' guitar? That is one example where the singer has no influence whatsoever on the band's sound. Same with Crimso. Same with Ayreon (technically not a band, but Arjen has his specific sound).
Also, what would Van Halen be without Eddies guitar? U2 without The Edge? Pink Floyd without David Gilmour?

So in conclusion, no, instruments don't always sound the same.
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Offline Mindflux

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1174 on: March 08, 2017, 10:24:37 AM »
Well that's an interesting opinion.

How'd that work out for Queensryche when DeGarmo left?
 :rollin

DeGarmo had a very particular sound with QR and it's definitely missed.

Exactly.... "A guitar is a guitar".. lol no


Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1175 on: March 08, 2017, 01:52:27 PM »
I dont think that WD&DU is the least liked album by DT.
Oh, I think it is.
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Offline Mindflux

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1176 on: March 08, 2017, 01:59:14 PM »
I dont think that WD&DU is the least liked album by DT.
Oh, I think it is.

Oh it definitely is.

Offline RoeDent

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1177 on: March 08, 2017, 02:51:07 PM »
I don't really know how else to put it apart from saying I am speaking very broadly when I say that guitar/bass/drums etc. sound similar whoever's playing them. I shouldn't even have to say that differing techniques and whatnot come into play. A replacement guitarist/bassist etc. can easily play older songs using the same settings as the original musician. But a replacement singer cannot sing exactly like the singer he's replacing. If that makes any sense. So when a singer gets replaced, that is a much more obvious change from a musical/audio perspective than when an instrumentalist gets replaced.

And if you think that "opinon" is "bizarre", then I can't help you anymore.

Spock's Beard rock!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 03:14:46 PM by RoeDent »

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1178 on: March 08, 2017, 04:32:58 PM »
In the words of Chandler Bing... "Can open; worms everywhere".
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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1179 on: March 08, 2017, 11:59:19 PM »
I don't really know how else to put it apart from saying I am speaking very broadly when I say that guitar/bass/drums etc. sound similar whoever's playing them. I shouldn't even have to say that differing techniques and whatnot come into play. A replacement guitarist/bassist etc. can easily play older songs using the same settings as the original musician. But a replacement singer cannot sing exactly like the singer he's replacing. If that makes any sense. So when a singer gets replaced, that is a much more obvious change from a musical/audio perspective than when an instrumentalist gets replaced.

And if you think that "opinon" is "bizarre", then I can't help you anymore.

Spock's Beard rock!
While I don't entirely agree, I get what you're saying (which others don't seem to). The predominant factor in what an instrumentalist sounds like is the instrument itself. Someone of similar skills could play a guitar with the same strings, settings etc. and replicate it very closely. With vocals, the sound is entirely created by the singer, and so even with the same level of talent they might sound nothing alike.

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Online Kwyjibo

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1180 on: March 09, 2017, 04:40:56 AM »
You mean, if I understand you correctly, that you can chose to replace an instrumentalist with another one and if he's able to emulate the one he's replacing, than there's no obvious change in sound. That in itself is mostly correct, small differences will be there but probably nothing that is glaringly obvious. But that is not restricted to instrumentalists only. Take Arnel Pineda in Journey, a definite Perry clone or LaTorre in Queensryche, not Tate but very close and trying to sound like him.

But all of this means that the replacement is not allowed to develop his/her own style or let it come into play. And if you change instrumentalists with a distinctive style you get a band tnhat is sounding different than before.
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline Orbert

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1181 on: March 09, 2017, 07:04:20 AM »
The important thing is the context of the statement, which wasn't really clear originally.  True, if you have the same singer and replace the guitarist, bassist, or drummer, and the new player is merely covering parts originally laid down by someone else, then it will sound essentially the same.  But that's not what I got out of the original statement.  The original statement seemed to be saying that while voices are distinct, instruments are not.

To me, a band's singer is, in more ways than one, the true voice of the band. You can change any of the instrumentalists and their instruments will sound essentially the same.

In the context of replacing someone and then seeing how much the result sounds like the band did on previous recordings, this is true.  Instrumentalists can usually mimic the sound produced by another instrumentalist more easily than a singer can change his voice to sound like another singer.  But we were talking about the changes which Spock's Beard has gone through over the years, specifically how they've had three lead singers, and to me the band still sounds like Spock's Beard.

Maybe because I focus much more on the instruments than on the singer.  To me, a good singer is like another instrument, contributing part of the sound.  One could argue that because voices are distinct, that the singer's voice is a larger factor, but I think that that's balanced by the fact that prog bands tend to have extended sections where there are no vocals at all.  For me, the only time a singer really stands out is when they're very, very good, or really bad.  Otherwise, they're just part of the mix, no more than the guitar, keyboards, bass, or drums.  Many of my favorite bands have changed singers over the the years, yet still sound essentially the same to me.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1182 on: March 09, 2017, 07:07:43 AM »
Lets use DT as an example, when Jordan came on playing with DT his keyboard patched were not exact from Kevin and Derek.  His played was slightly different from both of them so there were differences to them.  Each player has they unique sound and style.
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1183 on: March 09, 2017, 11:29:50 AM »
The only SB album I have is Snow. There are some cool songs and parts throughout, but I never delved into them because the vocals underwhelm me.
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Offline RoeDent

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1184 on: March 09, 2017, 11:48:17 AM »
Lesson learnt: Don't mention things like this again. It makes perfect sense in my head, but other human beings are strange...

Offline rumborak

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1185 on: March 09, 2017, 12:18:30 PM »
I think it's not so much what you were saying, but how you were saying it. As Aarich lays it out I doubt few would disagree, however the way you laid it out made it sound that anybody but the singer is irrelevant to a band's sound.
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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1186 on: March 09, 2017, 05:42:22 PM »
I think it's not so much what you were saying, but how you were saying it. As Aarich lays it out I doubt few would disagree, however the way you laid it out made it sound that anybody but the singer is irrelevant to a band's sound.
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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1187 on: March 10, 2017, 12:40:51 AM »
The only SB album I have is Snow. There are some cool songs and parts throughout, but I never delved into them because the vocals underwhelm me.

I would not recommend Snow for a Spock's Beard beginner, I am one of the very few that think that almost every other record by them is much much better than Snow, so maybe give the band another try.

My favorites would be The Light or V (with Neal Morse singing), X (with Nick D'Virgilio singing) or Brief Nocturnes And Dreamless Sleep (with Ted Leonard singing). If you don't like Neal's singing maybe try one of the others.
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1188 on: March 10, 2017, 02:45:20 AM »
I think that Spock's Beard is one of the few bands where it makes sense to purchase the Best Of first. They have three different eras, three different singers. The Best Of covers them all and then you can decide which one you like and get into more.

Also, I love Snow. I saw it live last summer at the Loreley with all of Spock's Beard. I think it's my favorite Spock's Beard album and maybe even my favorite Neal Morse album.
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Offline soupytwist

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Re: Spock's Beard
« Reply #1189 on: March 10, 2017, 04:52:42 AM »
Hope this doesn't come across as negative.

After getting into DT early last year, I was looking to get into another band of a similar style.  Reading about SB made them sound interesting, after some research I purchased the album 'V' (an album that seemed to be considered a good starting point).   Anyway I listened to it a couple of times and it didn't really grip me, it got put to one side and generally forgotten about.     I dug it out yesterday and gave it another blast - I find it OK, but it's not quite igniting me the way DT did.    So basically should I invest anymore time in this band, and if so where should I head next album wise?     For a perspective point of view - I'm not a metalhead (Maiden and DT are a heavy as I go) I generally enjoy bands like Coheed, Dear Hunter, Mew, Pearl Jam and I like The Flying Colors too.   So when I read about SB they sounded a decent fit for me, so it's been slightly disapointing it hasn't worked for me yet.

Sorry for the rambling nature of the post, I doing it at work and people keep interrupting.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 05:11:27 AM by soupytwist »