The Depressed/Angry Thread.

[Stadler]

Barry had some good insight in the other thread, though:  the truth will set you free.  I think he was meaning that in a more global way, but here, I mean it in a personal way.  Be honest with yourself; are you one that can do things in moderation (some people can't, either in general or in specific areas)?  Are you one that can channel your feelings (some people can't)?  What is it that REALLY satisfies you, and can that be reasonably achieved within the confines of your current life (if your abiding passion is jumping into a car with two buddies and playing small clubs across the Southeast, you might be in trouble).

This has been the big thing for me with COVID.   I have a wife that (I think) loves me, and understands me.  We fight, primarily because our respective communication styles require the other to put in effort, but I don't think anything out of the ordinary, and for most of our time together I would find my "recharge" in concerts or traveling (with her or without her).  I go to the majority of shows by myself (though I will meet up with people if it's that kind of show) and I use that to make time for myself.  I'll go early, when I can, I'll leave room to get a beer or dinner before, or if it's New York or Philly, sight see or meet people.

I'm a big one for building "stories".  Not "bro, I pounded 37 beers!" stories, but "I was on stage with Gene Simmons" stories.  "I met Billy Squier" or "I had a cigarette with Gary Barden".   Not to namedrop, but to cement those events and to allow me to go back to them when I need it.  When the boiler isn't cooperating, or the wife is in one of her moods (hey, it happens).   I don't know that this will work for anyone else, but it works for me, and with COVID, I'm struggling a bit to replace that.   Currently, it's guitar; I'm playing a lot, and sort of sketching out my "mid-life crisis album", and it's working so far, but we'll see.

EDIT: By the way, I only offer this to help, and to show that these are not usual feelings; for me, they are all related:  the perspective, the fitting in, the finding of release... they are all variations/sides of the same issue for me.

[Ben_Jamin]

How Does Ultra-Processed Food Affect Our Mental Health?

Currently, one in five Americans live with a mental illness, and these rates have been tracking alongside increases in metabolic disease. Yet, conventional psychiatric care does not typically include discussion of food or an assessment of metabolic dysfunction, obesity, or insulin resistance in the evaluation or treatment of mental health conditions.

On this episode of The Doctor's Farmacy, I was happy to sit down and talk with Dr. Shebani Sethi Dalai about the relationship between mental health and metabolic disease, and how we are gradually coming to understand that inflammation, oxidative stress, and insulin resistance may represent important root causes of many chronic brain illnesses, including many psychiatric disorders.

Dr. Shebani Sethi Dalai is a double board-certified physician in Obesity Medicine and Psychiatry. She is the Founding Director of Stanford University's Metabolic Psychiatry program and Silicon Valley Metabolic Psychiatry, a new center in the San Francisco Bay Area focused on optimizing brain health by integrating low carb nutrition, comprehensive psychiatric care, and treatment of obesity with associated metabolic disease.

[Stadler]

I went down that rabbit hole a couple weeks ago, about the ingredients in food.  I thank god I'm not a paranoid type, because if I was, it would be crippling.   

I was reading into the regulation of hormones in your body - testosterone, cortisol, stuff like that - and the guy was saying that just taking supplements isn't really enough; you have to make sure you're not also maximizing the things that work against your supplements (cortisol and testosterone work against each other, for example).   And he listed some things that naturally increase your testosterone - I was okay there- but also things that maximized your cortisol and it was a third of my diet.   Tha frig.  My grandmother died at 98 and she REFUSED to eat stuff out of a box; up until she was probably 94, 95 she would go in the woods and just pick mushrooms and eat them.  My dad (her son) would yell at her because of the risk (many more mushrooms can hurt you than are good for you and I'm not talking about the Grateful Dead's versions) but she knew what she was looking for/doing.

[JayOctavarium]

So... I still haven't found a therapist, and I swear I shall soon. But I will say that the meds I am taking, which my doc just upped the dosage on, seem to be doing something.

One thing about me is I HATE doing things by myself. Movies. Concerts. Outdoor activities. If I don't have someone to do them with, I just don't do them. Well, I have been going out once a week to hike. Alone. And I have been loving it. This would not have happened 2 months ago. At all. Hell, I was out literally all day today, including a 7 mile hike. It's been amazing.

[jingle.boy]

So... I still haven't found a therapist, and I swear I shall soon. But I will say that the meds I am taking, which my doc just upped the dosage on, seem to be doing something.

One thing about me is I HATE doing things by myself. Movies. Concerts. Outdoor activities. If I don't have someone to do them with, I just don't do them. Well, I have been going out once a week to hike. Alone. And I have been loving it. This would not have happened 2 months ago. At all. Hell, I was out literally all day today, including a 7 mile hike. It's been amazing.

That's awesome Jay.  Alone time is fantastic.  Glad you're enjoying / appreciating it.

[Phoenix87x]

Which meds are you taking if you don't mind sharing jay?

[JayOctavarium]

Which meds are you taking if you don't mind sharing jay?

Lexapro genetic.

[Phoenix87x]

Oh ok. SSRI

That was mentioned to me by my doctor as an option back when I was having issues, but I didn't feel like it was for me so I went the CBD/ Medical Marijuana route, but SSRIs can be pretty effective. They usually take like 4+ weeks to get a steady blood level.

[Stadler]

So... I still haven't found a therapist, and I swear I shall soon. But I will say that the meds I am taking, which my doc just upped the dosage on, seem to be doing something.

One thing about me is I HATE doing things by myself. Movies. Concerts. Outdoor activities. If I don't have someone to do them with, I just don't do them. Well, I have been going out once a week to hike. Alone. And I have been loving it. This would not have happened 2 months ago. At all. Hell, I was out literally all day today, including a 7 mile hike. It's been amazing.

I might be biased, since I love doing things by myself, but I find it's so important to get that time away from others (especially others around whom you have to be "on"), and screens and sensory input.   I can only speak for me, but it's in those times when I'm best able to really think about what's in my life, what I'm doing, who I'm doing it to/with, and where I want to be.

I have a lot of people in my life who, seemingly, put zero time into self-contemplation, and it shows.

[Kotowboy]

For whatever reason - strong coffee really DOES NOT help my anxiety and depression.

I generally feel better when I switch to decaf.

Plus it's getting warmer and lighter in the UK now. So that helps too. Going for a motorbike ride in the sun and the warm air just feels so good.



Once October rolls around - I can quite literally FEEL myself getting depressed that summer is over. Physically. Something switches when the air starts getting colder.

[Phoenix87x]

I have to be careful with coffee. Not enough and I'm crabby. Too much and I start to get manic 

[Kotowboy]

Nah I just get really grumpy and twitchy.

My eyelids wouldn't stop twitching recently. So I switched to decaf and forced myself not to get out of bed when I woke up and have a decent sleep and eventually it went away.

I do have a tendency to over do it. One time I had to give up caffeine after I couldnt raise my hands without them shaking. That too went away with a good diet and lots of rest.

[kirksnosehair]

I don't think I could give up caffeine, but I am highly sensitive to its effects.  If I drink 1 cup of coffee anytime after, say, 2pm I will be up all night, so I usually won't drink it anytime after 10am just to be safe.

[Kotowboy]

6pm for me but I always go to bed around midnight anyway. Unless I start work at 9am - then it's more like 10pm.

[kirksnosehair]

Yeah, I'm in bed at 8pm and up at 3:30am every day.


Sundays I sleep in until 5

[Kotowboy]

5pm ?

I don't like staying in bed until the afternoon - especially in winter - then you get no daylight. Even if I was awake all night i'm still up by noon. Then just go to bed early.

I need to get some daylight.

[JayOctavarium]

Oh ok. SSRI

That was mentioned to me by my doctor as an option back when I was having issues, but I didn't feel like it was for me so I went the CBD/ Medical Marijuana route, but SSRIs can be pretty effective. They usually take like 4+ weeks to get a steady blood level.

I've been on them for a month and a half. I really do feel a difference. I used to be very iffy about medications... But I trust my current doc.  The only side effects I've had have been some slight stomach issues and I think I've been clenching my jaw, but I'm not sure if it's the meds or if I'm just noticing it due to the meds.

[Kotowboy]

What does it feel like being on Anti-Depressants ?

My anxiety is so bad that if I feel "new" or "different" that makes me anxious on its own.

Does it feel strange or do you just not get as low ?

[JayOctavarium]

It's really hard to explain. I still feel 100 percent like me. I just feel like there is a slight cushion between me and extreme highs (like anger) and lows (depression). They don't hit as hard. And I've also been more inclined to actually so things that bring me joy... Instead of sitting here getting frustrated.

Now it's a very slight change. But it's just enough to make me feel a lot better




I don't know if that makes sense. Its really hard to explain.

[Phoenix87x]

I have heard people describe it as making them feel numb emotionally at times and also possible sexual dysfunction issues like ED. All that scared me away, but I am glad that its working out for you Jay.

[JayOctavarium]

That's what I was afraid of... But hasn't been an issue yet. And on the sexual issues... Lexapro tends to... Let's just say people tend to use it to treat premature issues... Off label... I haven't had any negative side effects there. In fact I think it's helping me a little

[Kotowboy]

Lexapro - the under appreciated Marx Brother

[Cool Chris]

It's really hard to explain. I still feel 100 percent like me. I just feel like there is a slight cushion between me and extreme highs (like anger) and lows (depression). They don't hit as hard. And I've also been more inclined to actually so things that bring me joy... Instead of sitting here getting frustrated.

Now it's a very slight change. But it's just enough to make me feel a lot better

That explains my experience pretty spot on, specifically the part about moderating between the highs and lows. When I was on them, I never got as low as I did prior to starting, which was pleasant. I also did notice I sometimes would not get as happy about things as I might have otherwise, which I accepted as an acceptable compromise for avoiding the all too frequent lows.

Likewise I never didn't feel like I was myself. Just a better balanced one.

[kirksnosehair]

5pm ?

I don't like staying in bed until the afternoon - especially in winter - then you get no daylight. Even if I was awake all night i'm still up by noon. Then just go to bed early.

I need to get some daylight.

No, 5am.  I get up at 3:30am on most days, for me sleeping until 5am is "sleeping in"

[Stadler]

5pm ?

I don't like staying in bed until the afternoon - especially in winter - then you get no daylight. Even if I was awake all night i'm still up by noon. Then just go to bed early.

I need to get some daylight.

No, 5am.  I get up at 3:30am on most days, for me sleeping until 5am is "sleeping in"

I don't know how you do that; I have a difficult time waking up before at least the dawn twilight.

[kirksnosehair]

It's just a schedule I'm used to.  I've been getting up early ever since I can remember.  I'm not a night person.  By 8pm I am nodding out most nights.

[mike099]

Jay, hoping you get the help you need. 

I have been taking celexa and Ativan as needed for anxiety.  I used to take the celexa in the morning, but switched to evenings because the Celexa would make we nod off during the day.  For me the drug 'evens' me out.  At one point I told my wife I was considering weening off the meds, but she she strongly suggested otherwise.

I had to laugh at the anxiety/depression meds as a treatment of premature issues.  I did not need the drug for that issue, but the result was it took forever or sometimes not at all, which can be good or bad depending on your partner.   

[KevShmev]

For years, I was up till 12 pm or so every night, and couldn't imagine waking up before 8-9 am. Now, I wake up at 6-6:30 am every morning, even on the weekends.  I would love to sleep later on the weekends, but it is hard for me to fall back asleep once I am awake early in the morning.  I have a minor case of sleep apnea, so that does not help the overall cause. 

[mike099]

For years, I was up till 12 pm or so every night, and couldn't imagine waking up before 8-9 am. Now, I wake up at 6-6:30 am every morning, even on the weekends.  I would love to sleep later on the weekends, but it is hard for me to fall back asleep once I am awake early in the morning.  I have a minor case of sleep apnea, so that does not help the overall cause. 

I wake up at 4:30 every morning, but go to bed around 9 every night.  Kev, do you use a cpap?  I have been using one for years.  It took a good 2 weeks for me to get used to the mask and now I am not sure I could sleep without the machine.

[KevShmev]

I wake up at 4:30 every morning, but go to bed around 9 every night.  Kev, do you use a cpap? I have been using one for years.  It took a good 2 weeks for me to get used to the mask and now I am not sure I could sleep without the machine.

Not really.  I barely cleared the threshold to even qualify for one (vs my cousin, whom I had talked to about it, whose numbers were off the charts high), and I tried using it, but I could never keep the mask on.  On occasion, I try it again, but have the same problem.  It takes me forever to fall asleep with it on, and every time I would wake up the next morning and it would be on the floor or next to me (meaning I took it off in my sleep).  I just deal with the tiredness as it is.

[Dublagent66]

For years, I was up till 12 pm or so every night, and couldn't imagine waking up before 8-9 am. Now, I wake up at 6-6:30 am every morning, even on the weekends.  I would love to sleep later on the weekends, but it is hard for me to fall back asleep once I am awake early in the morning.  I have a minor case of sleep apnea, so that does not help the overall cause. 

I wake up at 4:30 every morning, but go to bed around 9 every night.  Kev, do you use a cpap?  I have been using one for years.  It took a good 2 weeks for me to get used to the mask and now I am not sure I could sleep without the machine.

My dad said the same thing which was difficult for me to believe.  I can't even begin to imagine getting used to one of those machines while trying to sleep. 

[King Postwhore]

I've been using one since 2004 and whenever the power goes out I'm wide awake.  I can't sleep without it.

[Kotowboy]

Whenever I have a really happy fun day - the moment I come home and the sun starts setting I feel so miserable.

Maybe i'm bipolar or maybe it's just an adrenaline / endorphin crash ?

One time I went to a theme park for the day with my brother and his son - it was a brilliant day.

As soon as I got home I was bawling. I don't even know why.

It wasn't JUST " oh the fun is over ". It was something else.

[Cool Chris]

There is a gulf fixed between those who can sleep and those who cannot. It is one of the greatest divisions of the human race.
Iris Murdoch - Nuns And Soldiers

I went through a ton of crap (much of it self-inflicted) in my 20s, and struggled with sleep for those years. Now I sleep soundly. The difference is staggering. I would not wish poor sleep on anyone.

[darkshade]

I'm sorry, but I need to rant here... TL;DR last paragraph below.

My dad got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer about 13 months ago or so. He's slowly declined in health, but his condition wasn't really getting worse, and doctors were doing chemo and other things to shrink the tumor so it could be surgically removed, as it was pushing on his stomach causing him to not be able to digest food. This surgery never came to pass as they were not able to shrink the tumor... Eventually he needed a cane, then eventually he needed a walker, then he couldn't walk far past the end of the driveway, then couldn't get up off the couch very often, just enough to go to the bathroom, then eventually, not at all. In the last few months I could still talk to him, some days were better than others, but some days he couldn't talk too much due to the medication, but he was otherwise still functioning, still using his phone or tablet, still making himself a cup of coffee, etc... Over time he lost most of his body fat and muscle mass. He needed to go to the hospital 3 weeks ago to get a stent put in his liver, but for whatever reason the doctors couldn't get his body response or whatever it was under control so they could do the procedure right away, so we waited. Then he got covid after being in the hospital for a few days, they said they now needed to wait two weeks to quarantine before doing the procedure and gave him the option to stay or go home, and my dad refused to stay longer so he was sent home. That was about two weeks ago.

At some point, he told my mom that he didn't want to go to the hospital anymore, he has had to go there many times over the past year. Early last week, his health started rapidly declining, and he has been put under hospice care since last week. I did not see him for the previous couple of weeks or so because of his contracting of covid and wanting to play it safe, but was texting him here and there before the rapid decline. I finally saw him again. He is bedridden, unable to move much, basically looks like a corpse from the holocaust. He cannot talk, barely responds to anything, and just blankly stares at the TV. I have been stopping by my parent's house almost every day to see him. First couple of days were rough, I was incredibly overwhelmed because of how badly he had declined in such a short time. I could not eat, my entire body felt like I was really sick, I felt immense cold and felt like I needed to bundle up like it was 20 degrees below zero. I cried 4 or 5 times that first day. I laid in bed for 2 days. I still have knots in my stomach, every emotion you can think of I have experienced now in the last 5 days. I have no motivation to work, I can't listen to much music, I put some light jazz on in the background for myself to help keep me calm but that's it. I can't stay focused on anything else besides thinking about my dad. Today I saw him and he looks even worse, and I actually thought he might be dead when I walked in the room. When I first saw him like this, I could sense he was still inside there, but today, I felt like he was just gone. A bag of bones. I can't even pick up the phone to inform my friends what is going on (I don't use social media and my extended family is well aware of what is happening via my mom.) I have no use for social interaction right now, which is why I'm here ranting.

I'm not looking for sympathy, but maybe ways to help me cope with this. I've forced myself to eat something, anything, these last few days, but I either feel nauseous or knots in my stomach at all times, and have a constant desire to bawl out cry. It's 60 degrees out but I feel like I can't wear enough sweat pants and hoodies to stay warm. Walking helps, but only temporarily. Then I just want to go back to bed. I'm thinking of setting up and "moving back in" with my parents this week until the final day comes, just so I can be close by. Sitting at my apartment seems to make things worse for me, mentally. Typing this out helped a little as well, but I am just a mess like I've never been before.