Illumination Theory vs The Count of Tuscany

[Sacul]

I understand the song as a guy that starts reflecting about life and questioning himself. The ambiental section feels like he's meditating and the strings reflect his/her feelings but in a calm way. I think that "Mothers for the children..." is more about injustices in life and his complaints about it. In the final section, he has learned a lot and gives his new vision about life and everything.

[ReaPsTA]

I also like this interpretation.  Focuses on the emotional journey more.

[robwebster]

I understand the song as a guy that starts reflecting about life and questioning himself. The ambiental section feels like he's meditating and the strings reflect his/her feelings but in a calm way. I think that "Mothers for the children..." is more about injustices in life and his complaints about it. In the final section, he has learned a lot and gives his new vision about life and everything.

I don't feel it's quite as tangible as that - it's not about a person, it's about something a lot bigger and more ethereal. The orchestra represents whatever effect it has on you, the listener.

This is how I viewed IT. Which is why I don't think I will really understand how it can be described as disjointed. It is very cohesive not just lyrically but structurally as well. The disjoint that some people feel, I think, is because the narrative of the song is really about transitioning from dark to light but ending up in a paradox where light is in the darkness. There is a deliberate disjointedness, from grounded to transcendent, from fast to slow parts. The transitions serve a narrative function.

I think it's just like the rest of the album, where they don't waste a note. They skip from melody to melody without wringing them out, but I think that's the correct decision, it increases the pace. They sound different, and sudden, but they don't sound disjointed. Each moment of music feels relevant to the last, each new idea drives the story forward, and the song never loses momentum - which is no mean feat in a track that takes five minutes out of its schedule to drop everything entirely and wallow in something lush and sumptuous.

It's a form of songwriting I prefer. I don't think people are wrong to say it's caffeinated, and without focus, but I do disagree with them. Illumination Theory takes plenty of time to dwell on the sounds that benefit from the sustained mood, it's just canny enough to know the difference between the slow burners and the brilliant flashes. They're pushing themselves as writers, and making something that's absolutely trim. My big worry, when I saw this long song with six subsections in the tracklisting, was that the band are in the habit of writing long songs because long songs are what they do, and Illumination Theory was the token epic, like The Count of Tuscany and In the Presence of Enemies before it. It's not - Illumination Theory is exactly as long as it needs to be and not a second longer. I think it's Dream Theater at their best. Heck, I think the whole album's Dream Theater at their best.

[The Stray Seed]

When you find that some work is so dense and meaningful that can be interpreted in many profound and fascinating ways, you know it's a work of art!

[Perpetual Change]

I've got to say, I'm crestfallen that the song isn't named "The Illumination Theory", like I somehow had got to thinking.  TIT was my favorite acronym for a DT song ever.

[Sketchy]

Wow. That analysis. Just. Wow.

[robwebster]

I've got to say, I'm crestfallen that the song isn't named "The Illumination Theory", like I somehow had got to thinking.  TIT was my favorite acronym for a DT song ever.

I'm still crestfallen we never got CAGZ. Terrorist bastards.

[425]

Wow. That analysis. Just. Wow.

ANALYSIS!


But seriously, very well done analysis. It could very well improve the song in my esteem, though it's hard to go higher than #13.

[ReaPsTA]

I've got to say, I'm crestfallen that the song isn't named "The Illumination Theory", like I somehow had got to thinking.  TIT was my favorite acronym for a DT song ever.

I'm still crestfallen we never got CAGZ. Terrorist bastards.

I'm missing something.

[robwebster]

The Great Debate was to be called Conflict at Ground Zero, but it was changed, for much the same reason Live Scenes' cover was. Absolutely the right choice, I'm being glib, but there's an alternate universe where the world is at peace, everyone loves each other and The Great Debate is called CAGZ, and it sounds like a bloody wonderful place to be.

It's just a nice sound. I like saying it. Cagz. I'm going to call a band that.

Seriously, disregard this post. I feel like this is the kind of bollocks that usually gets scribbled on padded walls. In faeces. ROBWEBSTER'S BACK!

[jammindude]

I've got to say, I'm crestfallen that the song isn't named "The Illumination Theory", like I somehow had got to thinking.  TIT was my favorite acronym for a DT song ever.

That is so cool that I am simply going to ignore reality and start calling it that, and using that acronym.   THANKS!!! 

[ReaPsTA]

The Great Debate was to be called Conflict at Ground Zero, but it was changed, for much the same reason Live Scenes' cover was. Absolutely the right choice, I'm being glib, but there's an alternate universe where the world is at peace, everyone loves each other and The Great Debate is called CAGZ, and it sounds like a bloody wonderful place to be.

It's just a nice sound. I like saying it. Cagz. I'm going to call a band that.

Seriously, disregard this post. I feel like this is the kind of bollocks that usually gets scribbled on padded walls. In faeces. ROBWEBSTER'S BACK!

I forgot about this.  CAGZ would have been a fun acronym.

It's not bollocks sir.

[erwinrafael]

And just like that, Erwinrafael made me love IT that much more. Kudos to you, Sir.

I actually resisted for quite some time the temptation to post that because I would love IT to win this poll without having to be explained. But the complaints about disjointedness and lack of cohesion just got tiring, and the poll became too close for comfort. 

I have been trying to come up with a similar in-depth analysis of TCoT but I still can not come up with a similarly logical explanation.

[Invisible]

Great analysis! I actually caught the lyrics meaning at second listen(my first one with the lyrics in front of me), but it took a lot more time(well, 5 or 6 listens) to put all the music together, as it usually happens with DT, and I never quite caught the mirror references completely. So  for your analysis.

Anyway, I actually went back to read what I said about the cohesiveness of the piece and I stand my ground: it's not disjointed, but the transitions aren't as smooth as, say, Octavarium. I guess that's why people are saying it's disjointed, not because of the music itself, but the fact that it keep growing and growing and growing and when you expect to keep that way BAM!, it goes into the Embracing Circle in full stop sort of way, like it suddenly dies. I understand why they did it, and it's brilliant, if they didn't kill the momentum the reentrance of the band wouldn't have been nearly as great. But, while when you listen to the entire piece and you see it's not disjointed, these sudden changes makes it feel disjointed. I actually love how between The Pursuit Of Truth and the last section the band goes sort of crazy and out of the madness JP emerges with one of his best solos, like "illuminated" sort of way(I know THIS is overanalysing, but it feels that way to me), it's a moment.

As for the lyrics, the only thing I don't think is that this is a paradox:
"To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain"

I don't see it much as a paradox but more of a correlation between pain and joy, at least in my experience and without going into a deep discussion, pain and pleasure are connected, and without one you can't have the other, it's the relief of pain that causes most pleasure, it may sound like a paradox but it's not. If you don't suffer from not having or not achieving something, for example, the amount of pleasure you feel when you accomplish that is nowhere near as if you didn't suffer for it, and you don't even appreciate it or value something if it costed nothing, so no pain = no joy. I'm not saying anything new that everyone didn't know already, I'm just pointing out what I think it's the meaning of that lyrics(and section and maybe the whole song).

[erwinrafael]

I think it is still a paradox in a sense that gives a counter-intuitive argument. A lot of people actually avoid pain in their pursuit of happiness. So it may be true, and I actually believe that the statement is true based on my experience, but it is still paradoxical in the sense that there is an initial sense of contradiction.

[The Stray Seed]

I think it is still a paradox in a sense that gives a counter-intuitive argument. A lot of people actually avoid pain in their pursuit of happiness. So it may be true, and I actually believe that the statement is true based on my experience, but it is still paradoxical in the sense that there is an initial sense of contradiction.

This. And it totally is a paradox, since joy is the contrary of suffering. I get what you mean, Invisible, but paradox is a figure of speech, and as such it is totally objective. So, our own feelings and experiences can lead us to consider things from a personal point of view, but still cannot change the objective meaning of words. Light and darkness, joy and suffering, good and evil, they all depend on one another, and could not exist without their contrary, but they still remain opposite concepts.

[philippaopao]

To me Illumination Theory works as a whole thing.  There are even recurring themes to bind it together.

Set up themes
Life is painful
Life can be okay
The truth is painful
But if you embrace that pain, you will see the light

The music and lyrics both tell a story.

I commented on this in the Illumination Theory appreciation thread, so I will just transfer here a modified version of what I said since we are talking about disjointedness. IT is very cohesive for me because of the symmetry of the song.

Section 1: Paradox of the Black Light. Slow, majestic, a bit heavy so it is not yet "illuminated". This is an overture to the un-illuminated sections of the song.

Section 2: The heavy riffing section. At first this seems to be just a wanky instrumental but it actually acts as a bridge between Section 1 and Section 3. This serves an important narrative function once we get to the later sections. Note also that it is mostly a standard rocking beat, with some time signature changes only at the end upon approaching the Live, Die, Kill section.

Section 3: Live, Die Kill. The section poses the questions: What are you willing to live for? to die for? to kill for? It is asking for "an answer that begs to be found". The section has two subsections: the first has lyrics playing to a main riff, the second is the instrumental section that has plenty of time signature changes.

Section 4: Embracing Circle, ambient section. If Live, Die, Kill referred to a more down-to-earth plane of existence, to grounded reality, the Embracing Circle is situated in a transcendental plane. The ambient section is formless and lengthy, which signifies that the questions posed in Live, Die, Kill remain unanswered even in a moment of transcendence and it remains quite unanswered for a long time. The length of the section is important because it serves the narrative function of indicating that illumination or enlightenment does not come easily.

BREAK in the Narrative: Now we start to mirror the previous sections.

Section 5: Embracing Circle, orchestral section. This mirrors Section 4. We are still in the transcendental plane, but unlike Section 4, illumination starts to creep in slowly with the build up of the orchestral part. Illumination climaxes with a moment of enlightenment, signified by the orchestral version of the intro melody. It sort of mirrors Section 1 as well. The end of the orchestral section is an overture to the "illuminated" section of the song, The Pursuit of Truth. It will not serve its proper narrative function if it is placed at the start, because the more heavy-sounding music of Paradox of the Black Light  better fits as an introduction to the "un-illuminated" Live, Die and Kill section. The two overtures share the same melody.

Section 6. The Pursuit of Truth. This mirrors Section 3. The section starts with reverse swells, which signals a return from the transcendental plane to grounded reality. After the moment of enlightenment in The Embracing Circle, the song now has answers to the questions posed in Live, Die, Kill.  What are mothers willing to live, die and kill for? Their children. Husbands are willing to live, die and kill for their wives. Martyrs are willing to live die and kill for the kingdom. And so on and so forth. The Pursuit of Truth answers the questions of Live, Die, Kill. Still mirroring Section 3, the section also has two subsections: the first has lyrics playing to a main riff, the second is the instrumental section that has plenty of time signature changes.

Section 7: The heavy riffing section. This mirrors Section 2. It follows the same structure and uses the same riff! This serves as a bridge between Section 6 and Section 8. While Section 2 bridged the Paradox to the questions, Section 7 bridged the answers to the Paradox. Like Section 2, this section has a lot of wanky instrumentals and plays to a standard rocking beat, with a change in the tempo at the end approaching the Surrender, Trust and Passion section.

Section 8. Surrender, Trust and Passion. And now we have come full circle. This mirrors Section 1. Section 8 is also slow and majestic, but unlike Section 1, it is uplifting because illumination has already been achieved. Section 1 is titled the Paradox of the Black Light, and the lyrics in Section 8 spell out the paradox. And if I overanalyze the lyrics, even the lyrics here are symmetrical. LOL

Introduce with a paradox:
"To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain"

Surrender: Lyrics refer to illumination by referencing light.
"When you surrender to the light
You can face the darkest days"

Trust: Middle section, still in keeping the visuality of the Illumination Theory, we refer to opening one's eyes.
"If you open up your eyes
And you put your trust in love
On those cold and endless nights
You will never be alone"

Passion: Mirror the Surrender subsection. Lyrics refer to illumination by referencing bright.
"Passion glows within your heart
Like a furnace burning bright"

Mirror the intro. End with a paradox:
"Until you struggle through the dark
You'll never know that you're alive"

And as one more bit of analysis, which may be stretching a bit. Paradox of the Black Light started with a crescendo drum roll. Surrender, Trust and Passion ends with a decrescendo drum roll.

----------
This is how I viewed IT. Which is why I don't think I will really understand how it can be described as disjointed. It is very cohesive not just lyrically but structurally as well. The disjoint that some people feel, I think, is because the narrative of the song is really about transitioning from dark to light but ending up in a paradox where light is in the darkness. There is a deliberate disjointedness, from grounded to transcendent, from fast to slow parts. The transitions serve a narrative function.

Besides the main riff commonality in section 7 and 2 there is also another riff similarity we can observe: The underlying riff when JP is about to end his wah wah guitar solo (15:02) is essentially the same as the riff (but with a different scale and rhythm) of section 2, in 3:09

Also both ascending melodies in Section 6 (12:12) and Section 3 (6:19) sound very similar to each other!

We can even go as far as saying that the instrumental in Section 3 which is very well-structured (classical-sounding), is in contrast with the instrumental section in Section 6, which is all over the place, haha. AND that goes the other way around with the instrumentals in Section 2 (which is an odd collection of riffs, with whimsical keys) and Section 7 (which sounds organized because of the key and guitar solos)

[hefdaddy42]

To me Illumination Theory works as a whole thing.  There are even recurring themes to bind it together.

Set up themes
Life is painful
Life can be okay
The truth is painful
But if you embrace that pain, you will see the light

The music and lyrics both tell a story.

I commented on this in the Illumination Theory appreciation thread, so I will just transfer here a modified version of what I said since we are talking about disjointedness. IT is very cohesive for me because of the symmetry of the song.

Section 1: Paradox of the Black Light. Slow, majestic, a bit heavy so it is not yet "illuminated". This is an overture to the un-illuminated sections of the song.

Section 2: The heavy riffing section. At first this seems to be just a wanky instrumental but it actually acts as a bridge between Section 1 and Section 3. This serves an important narrative function once we get to the later sections. Note also that it is mostly a standard rocking beat, with some time signature changes only at the end upon approaching the Live, Die, Kill section.

Section 3: Live, Die Kill. The section poses the questions: What are you willing to live for? to die for? to kill for? It is asking for "an answer that begs to be found". The section has two subsections: the first has lyrics playing to a main riff, the second is the instrumental section that has plenty of time signature changes.

Section 4: Embracing Circle, ambient section. If Live, Die, Kill referred to a more down-to-earth plane of existence, to grounded reality, the Embracing Circle is situated in a transcendental plane. The ambient section is formless and lengthy, which signifies that the questions posed in Live, Die, Kill remain unanswered even in a moment of transcendence and it remains quite unanswered for a long time. The length of the section is important because it serves the narrative function of indicating that illumination or enlightenment does not come easily.

BREAK in the Narrative: Now we start to mirror the previous sections.

Section 5: Embracing Circle, orchestral section. This mirrors Section 4. We are still in the transcendental plane, but unlike Section 4, illumination starts to creep in slowly with the build up of the orchestral part. Illumination climaxes with a moment of enlightenment, signified by the orchestral version of the intro melody. It sort of mirrors Section 1 as well. The end of the orchestral section is an overture to the "illuminated" section of the song, The Pursuit of Truth. It will not serve its proper narrative function if it is placed at the start, because the more heavy-sounding music of Paradox of the Black Light  better fits as an introduction to the "un-illuminated" Live, Die and Kill section. The two overtures share the same melody.

Section 6. The Pursuit of Truth. This mirrors Section 3. The section starts with reverse swells, which signals a return from the transcendental plane to grounded reality. After the moment of enlightenment in The Embracing Circle, the song now has answers to the questions posed in Live, Die, Kill.  What are mothers willing to live, die and kill for? Their children. Husbands are willing to live, die and kill for their wives. Martyrs are willing to live die and kill for the kingdom. And so on and so forth. The Pursuit of Truth answers the questions of Live, Die, Kill. Still mirroring Section 3, the section also has two subsections: the first has lyrics playing to a main riff, the second is the instrumental section that has plenty of time signature changes.

Section 7: The heavy riffing section. This mirrors Section 2. It follows the same structure and uses the same riff! This serves as a bridge between Section 6 and Section 8. While Section 2 bridged the Paradox to the questions, Section 7 bridged the answers to the Paradox. Like Section 2, this section has a lot of wanky instrumentals and plays to a standard rocking beat, with a change in the tempo at the end approaching the Surrender, Trust and Passion section.

Section 8. Surrender, Trust and Passion. And now we have come full circle. This mirrors Section 1. Section 8 is also slow and majestic, but unlike Section 1, it is uplifting because illumination has already been achieved. Section 1 is titled the Paradox of the Black Light, and the lyrics in Section 8 spell out the paradox. And if I overanalyze the lyrics, even the lyrics here are symmetrical. LOL

Introduce with a paradox:
"To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain"

Surrender: Lyrics refer to illumination by referencing light.
"When you surrender to the light
You can face the darkest days"

Trust: Middle section, still in keeping the visuality of the Illumination Theory, we refer to opening one's eyes.
"If you open up your eyes
And you put your trust in love
On those cold and endless nights
You will never be alone"

Passion: Mirror the Surrender subsection. Lyrics refer to illumination by referencing bright.
"Passion glows within your heart
Like a furnace burning bright"

Mirror the intro. End with a paradox:
"Until you struggle through the dark
You'll never know that you're alive"

And as one more bit of analysis, which may be stretching a bit. Paradox of the Black Light started with a crescendo drum roll. Surrender, Trust and Passion ends with a decrescendo drum roll.

----------
This is how I viewed IT. Which is why I don't think I will really understand how it can be described as disjointed. It is very cohesive not just lyrically but structurally as well. The disjoint that some people feel, I think, is because the narrative of the song is really about transitioning from dark to light but ending up in a paradox where light is in the darkness. There is a deliberate disjointedness, from grounded to transcendent, from fast to slow parts. The transitions serve a narrative function.

This is fantastic.  It's the kind of analysis I really appreciate, but rarely have the time to do myself anymore.  I got most of this subliminally, anyway, but just a fantastic, fantastic analysis.  I agree, the song is actually quite cohesive given this approach.