The Shattered Fortress and Tool's Triad

[MykeHavoc]

Meself, I've listened to a lot of tool, and in my opinion TGD's no more a clone of Tool than Bonnard is a clone of Van Gogh. Heck, it's like saying that Starry Night is a clone of Sunflowers. Sure, they use a lot of the same tools in similar ways, but the end result sounds so far detached from a Tool song that it strikes me as a bit of a silly accusation. There are a lot of compositional similarities - it oozes influence, and you're right, it's technically very close - but it sounds completely different to anything Tool would write.

I tend to respect the opinion of a veteran over a novice.

With respect, Myke, the assumption that you're a "veteran" and the people you're talking to are "novices" is a bit patronising.

That said, I've got a hunch that everyone's violently agreeing with one another. I think we're probably on the same page but we're all expressing it completely differently. Nobody's saying there's not a lot of influence, but the emphases are in completely different places.

My post was made clear. Singling out that sentence completely breaks the intent behind it. I am not calling myself a veteran.
I'm not even trying to make pretend I'm some kind of expert. That was a generalized statement to say that one should wear their accolades with pride.

Let's take it back about 30 steps and say this: Had I phrased it "I've been writing riffs for ten years and singing for 15 and I'll tell you right now, The Great Debate is clearly a Tool-influences song", would that have been better? Because that's all I was getting at.

[robwebster]

Aye! I'd say that's a lot fairer. Not even sure you need to tout your credentials, I think that works.

Like I say, I think we're aggressively agreeing. Sorry if I sound like I'm nitpicking.

[nakedman]

Well, I've been itching for a long time to brag about the fact I got a scholarship to Berklee, now's my chance!  In all seriousness I feel like nothing should be called a clone if it blatantly isn't. TGD has many Tool-esque rhythms, and phrases, but they balance it out with that true DT positive spirit (turn to the lighttttt!). I don't mind if DT likes to share some expression with another band, but I would like it to at least be tasteful, and still have their own "spice".

[Zorander]

rare post, take it for what it's worth ( probably not much)

Sometimes I don't understand the pattern of thought of some people. You always assume the worst when trying to interpret the meaning of a post. It happens alot around here, someone makes a statement and tries to back it up by stating a certain experience to which people jump down their throat and accuses them of sitting on a high horse or being pompous/elitist etc .. Isnt it perfectly valid to just say that you have experience in structuring music, hence, you ARE able to identify similarities in patterns and other musical technicalities ? It is informative and it backs up your claim. How can for example "I'd rather trust an expert than a novice" become "I'm an expert and yous are all novices" ? =P Anyway, I just think sometimes people should be a little more passive/less aggressive and try to carry on a discussion before judging and calling names. Disagreeing shouldn't always end up with a mess of accusations and become nasty. 

Now, I dont know music theory for shit.. I just listen and judge by the way I hear it. I don't hear much of a similarity between TSF and Triad tbh, but I DO also feel the is a certain Tool vibe to TGD though I couldnt pin point exactly what myself. Orcus explained it well I think. That said, as always, there is also that special DT vibe which is unmistakable. Sometimes people are so sensitive when it comes to discussing DT ;-)

Peace out!

[Plasmastrike]

zorander ftw imo

[CJkins]

I can clearly hear the similarity, and that brings me to another song of DT that's similar to a song by Metallica. I guess you've all heard the song "One"? I think the intro of "Lifting Shadows of a Dream" sounds similar. Or is it just me?

[Adami]

I hear lots of similarities between songs that most people don't, but there is NO similarity between LSOAD and One.

[CJkins]

Guess it's just me then, but back when I heard it for the first time, I instantly thought of "One".

[hefdaddy42]

I think it's just you.  Metallica has never done anything remotely like LSOAD.

[CJkins]

I'm absolutely not implying that the sound of the two songs are similar, i mean the guitar intro reminded me of "One" from Metallica. Anyways, this is getting out of hand. It's just me I guess.

[Zook]

If the ''Life to save life'' riff doesn't scream Tool, your ears are broken. Also, I can hear Maynard all over the second verse.

[setrataeso]

If the ''Life to save life'' riff doesn't scream Tool, your ears are broken. Also, I can hear Maynard all over the second verse.

Still don't hear it

[Zook]

Well duh, your ears are broken.

[setrataeso]

Well duh, your ears are broken.

No, I just disagree.

[Zook]

I'm pretty it's your ears. I mean I'm pretty sure it's the 46 & 2 riff. Not completely the same, but extremely inspired by that.

[setrataeso]

I'm pretty it's your ears. I mean I'm pretty sure it's the 46 & 2 riff. Not completely the same, but extremely inspired by that.

Inspired by, maybe. But I don't think it "screams Tool" at all.

[Zook]

Well when I first heard it I thought it was a direct rip off. I guess you just aren't a Jedi yet.

[setrataeso]

Well when I first heard it I thought it was a direct rip off. I guess you just aren't a Jedi yet.

 

[MykeHavoc]

Lifting Shadows is more of a U2 inspired song, in a similar vain to I Walk Beside You.

[tri.ad]

I get the U2 influence in LSOAD mostly because of the delayed, clean guitar sound. But there's also some Marillion in there imo.

[nakedman]

I get the U2 influence in LSOAD mostly because of the delayed, clean guitar sound. But there's also some Marillion in there imo.

I actually love Marrilion inspired DT.

[wolfking]

Great Debate has a total 46&2 thing going on.