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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: PlaysLikeMyung on November 21, 2009, 08:22:16 AM

Title: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on November 21, 2009, 08:22:16 AM
We have threads for Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, and Tony Banks, but not for Genesis!

Appreciate

I've been listening to a lot more Genesis lately. I'm currently listening to No Reply At All off of Abacab. Sweet bassline. I really want to learn it.

My favorite Genesis albums:

Selling England by the Pound
Foxtrot
The Lamb
Trick of the Tail
Invisible Touch

Rock out to Genesis :metal
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on November 21, 2009, 11:58:19 AM
One of my top 5 bands easily.  My favorite albums are probably:

Selling England by the Pound
Nursery Cryme
Foxtrot
Duke
Wind and Wuthering

Ditto on No Reply at All being awesome.  I love the EWF Horns in that song.

If you like Phil Collins-led Genesis, as you seem to, definitely check out Phil's solo stuff.  Face Value is an awesome album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Shadoshi on November 21, 2009, 12:13:39 PM
Amazingly amazing band that is amazing. Nursery Cryme -> Wind and Wuthering = Amazing albums that are amazing.

/thread
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mladen on November 21, 2009, 01:40:00 PM
I've only heard the albums from Trespass to Wind and wuthering. I would rank them like this:

1. Nursery Cryme
2. Selling England by the pound
3. Foxtrot
4. Wind and wuthering
5. A Trick of the tail
6. Trespass
7. The Lamb lies down on Broadway

I'll listen to the rest when I get time, but these are some quality prog rock albums that I really enjoy. I'm listening to Blood on the rooftops at the moment, and it's wonderful.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on November 21, 2009, 02:04:38 PM
One of my top 5 bands easily.  My favorite albums are probably:

Selling England by the Pound
Nursery Cryme
Foxtrot
Duke
Wind and Wuthering

Ditto on No Reply at All being awesome.  I love the EWF Horns in that song.

If you like Phil Collins-led Genesis, as you seem to, definitely check out Phil's solo stuff.  Face Value is an awesome album.

I do like Collins Genesis. Pop or not, they wrote good songs. I still prefer the proggier Gabriel era though
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on November 21, 2009, 05:12:51 PM
One of my top 5 bands easily.  My favorite albums are probably:

Selling England by the Pound
Nursery Cryme
Foxtrot
Duke
Wind and Wuthering

Ditto on No Reply at All being awesome.  I love the EWF Horns in that song.

If you like Phil Collins-led Genesis, as you seem to, definitely check out Phil's solo stuff.  Face Value is an awesome album.

I do like Collins Genesis. Pop or not, they wrote good songs. I still prefer the proggier Gabriel era though

Actually, my favorite album by them is Wind and Wuthering.  I love the "transition" sound they had from Trick of the Tail through Duke, where they were best described as either proggy pop or poppy prog.  Amazing run of albums, even though I still find myself listening to the first three albums I listed above more often.

I've only heard the albums from Trespass to Wind and wuthering. I would rank them like this:

1. Nursery Cryme
2. Selling England by the pound
3. Foxtrot
4. Wind and wuthering
5. A Trick of the tail
6. Trespass
7. The Lamb lies down on Broadway

I'll listen to the rest when I get time, but these are some quality prog rock albums that I really enjoy. I'm listening to Blood on the rooftops at the moment, and it's wonderful.

You should hear ...And Then There Were Three and Duke.  Both of those albums are incredible also, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 21, 2009, 05:19:20 PM
Actually, my favorite album by them is Wind and Wuthering.  I love the "transition" sound they had from Trick of the Tail through Duke, where they were best described as either proggy pop or poppy prog.

This is my favorite period as well, though every Genesis album is great in its own way.  Most of them are great in several ways.  Bearded Phil for the win!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cool Chris on November 21, 2009, 05:50:57 PM
* Grabs a table, pulls up a chair, buys a beer, and waits for TAC to join him so he can find another person who hates Genesis to chat with.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on November 21, 2009, 06:59:19 PM
Not in my APPRECIATION thread you don't :P
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: splent on November 21, 2009, 07:43:03 PM
Amazingly amazing band that is amazing. Nursery Cryme -> Wind and Wuthering = Amazing albums that are amazing.

/thread

Change Wind and Wuthering to Duke and you got it right (I love ATTWT and Duke)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on November 21, 2009, 09:28:13 PM
Actually, my favorite album by them is Wind and Wuthering.  I love the "transition" sound they had from Trick of the Tail through Duke, where they were best described as either proggy pop or poppy prog.

This is my favorite period as well, though every Genesis album is great in its own way.  Most of them are great in several ways.  Bearded Phil for the win!


:lol Yeah, the albums where Phil had that huge bushy beard were his best as frontman.  He shaved it off for Abacab and things went downhill a bit(though they still released fantastic albums after Duke, for the record, just not as fantastic)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on November 21, 2009, 09:54:39 PM
Album rankings:

1. Foxtrot
2. The Lamb
3. A Trick of the Tail
4. Selling England
5. Genesis
6. Duke
7. Nursery Cryme
8. Wind and Wuthering
9. Invisible Touch

Still don't have Abacab, I Can't Dance, Trespass, or Calling All Stations.  One of my friends thinks CAS is one of their best albums, so I'm interested in exploring that at some point.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 21, 2009, 11:11:33 PM
Calling All Stations has some strengths, but it feels incomplete, and in fact it was.  Most of the songs don't have proper endings, and a lot of them just feel underdeveloped.  Mike and Tony wrote everything with a drum machine, while they tried to work out the lead singer situation after Phil had left, and then they went into the studio a bit half-assed and ran out of time.  CAS has its moments, and does have a great feel and a different sound, but I'd be hard pressed to call it one of their best.  My first question would be "In what way?"
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: LudwigVan on November 22, 2009, 12:04:44 AM
My very 1st Genesis album was Seconds Out.  I was completely floored when I heard Firth Of Fifth.   Tony Banks' piano intro and Steve Hackett's epic guitar solo = :hefdaddy

Since Seconds Out was made during the bearded Phil Collins-era, it was actually a pretty big adjustment for me to go back and listen to Peter Gabriel singing Supper's Ready, Firth, Musical Box, etc on the studio albums. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 22, 2009, 07:20:15 AM
I too started with Seconds Out, along with And Then There Were Three.  An ex-girlfriend asked me to play the organ at her wedding, and she asked if I could play "Follow You, Follow Me".  Of course I said "Yes" (I'd heard it on the radio, so how hard could it be?) and went directly to the record store to pick up ATTW3 and start learning it.  In the Genesis section was a cut-out copy of Seconds Out with that awesome cover.

I'm a big fan of live albums, or at least ones where the band really takes the studio stuff to the next level, and I ended up listening to Seconds Out a lot more than ATTW3, especially after "Follow You, Follow Me" got nixed by the girl's mom.  Apparently, traditional Catholic weddings have no room for rock music.  I don't know; I'm not Catholic.

It was an adjustment going back to the Gabriel years, but eventually I embraced it all.  But that mid-late-70's period is great.  Phil brought something to Peter's songs, and they were still cranking out some pretty proggy stuff with Steve in the band.

BTW, your memory is playing tricks on you.  There are very few live recordings of "Firth of Fifth" where Tony plays the piano intro, and Seconds Out isn't one of them.  The first time I heard Selling England by the Pound was at a friend's house, and hearing the piano intro blew me away.  It took me a moment to figure out why it sounded so familiar; it was the same as in the break, but sounded so different on solo piano.  This was before I'd gone back and filled in all the Gabriel-era stuff, but it probably encouraged me to speed up the process!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on November 22, 2009, 02:30:26 PM
When in Rome has been on VH1 classic recently. I'd like to go to a Genesis concert at some point (if they ever tour again), but the format is weird
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sirbradford117 on November 22, 2009, 02:50:47 PM
An ex-girlfriend asked me to play the organ at her wedding, and she asked if I could play "Follow You, Follow Me".  Of course I said "Yes"...

... "Follow You, Follow Me" got nixed by the girl's mom.  Apparently, traditional Catholic weddings have no room for rock music.  I don't know; I'm not Catholic.

Funny you should say that.  Indeed us Catholics frown upon secular music in the sacred liturgy, but my parents snuck it into their wedding as a prelude anyway.  There was a hymn in the book apparently called "Follow You" or something like that, and they told the priest that was the song. 

My parents FTW.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ddtonfire on November 22, 2009, 06:48:26 PM
One of my greatest regrets in life is not seeing Genesis on their reunion tour.


Oh and Genesis has been nominated for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Finally a good band.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on November 22, 2009, 06:50:36 PM
I think the HOF is looking more at the Collins-trio era.  I'd love to see whatever presenter begin their intro with "Their first album, 'And Then There Were Three...'" and then look shocked when Peter Gabriel and some weird guitar guy jump up on stage with them.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 22, 2009, 06:57:43 PM
I saw Genesis on the "Mama" tour.  It was a weird tour, because this was at the point in the early 80's when solo Phil was more popular than the band Genesis, and/or most people couldn't tell the difference anyway.  Where I was sitting, I could actually hear people yelling out the names of solo Phil songs, either expecting him to sing them anyway, or not realizing the the set lists and song lists are completely separate.

The playing was all fantastic.  Daryl Steurmer on guitars and Chester Thompson on drums, of course.  I would have loved to have caught them a tour or two earlier, as abacab and Genesis (aka "Mama") were towards what I consider the decline at the end of Genesis.  But it was still a great show.  Lots of good songs.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on November 22, 2009, 08:15:58 PM
I think the HOF is looking more at the Collins-trio era.  I'd love to see whatever presenter begin their intro with "Their first album, 'And Then There Were Three...'" and then look shocked when Peter Gabriel and some weird guitar guy jump up on stage with them.

I hope Gabriel and Hackett are there, but something tells me that Steve wouldn't be there...
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on November 22, 2009, 08:49:21 PM
He really should.  If only because getting the five together on stage might lead to a possible "The Lamb" reunion....
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 22, 2009, 10:14:48 PM
Honestly, a reunion with the five at this stage wouldn't do a lot for me.  I am not saying I wouldn't go, but Peter Gabriel, as awesome as he is, simply doesn't have the live voice he used to, and when you listen to that old Genesis stuff, he is way up there, and I would hate to hear PG straining to sing that old stuff only to hear it come out sounding 1/5 as good as originally did.  Ya know? :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on November 23, 2009, 01:26:43 AM
My favourite of the 70s prog bands, along with Pink Floyd. They have made some real classic stuff, mainly the period with Peter and Steve. Selling England By The Pound is in my Top 10 list of favourite albums of all time. Foxtrot is my second favourite by them, along with Nursery Cryme and The Lamb. I guess their stuff as a trio is good as well, but I haven't paid that much attention to that stuff other than the "hits". Altough Behind The Lines from Duke is a killer opener.

Top 10 songs:

1. Firth of Fifth
2. Time Table
3. For Absent Friends
4. Dancing With the Moonlit Knight
5. The Cinema Show
6. The Return of the Giant Hog-Weed
7. Supper's Ready
8. In The Cage
9. Counting Out Time
10. Ripples
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: carl320 on November 23, 2009, 09:57:49 AM
I've been on a Genesis kick... in the last two months, I've bought 3 albums (Foxtrot, Nursery Cryme and Selling England).  Favorite by far is Nursery Cryme.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: zerogravityfat on November 23, 2009, 10:03:13 AM
when in rome is frequently on the mtv high def concert channel, i watch it once in a while, great quality channel btw.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on November 23, 2009, 10:14:18 AM
I've been on a Genesis kick... in the last two months, I've bought 3 albums (Foxtrot, Nursery Cryme and Selling England).  Favorite by far is Nursery Cryme.

Those are definitely the three best Gabriel-era albums, in my opinion.  You should definitely check out Lamb Lies Down on Broadway next... you'll definitely love it.

edit:  I definitely say "definitely" too much in this post.... definitely.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on November 23, 2009, 11:03:41 AM
About 4-5 years ago, I "discovered" that there was a Genesis beyond their late 80's/early 90's pop-radio hits, and promptly bought The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway. As a blossoming progger, I was compelled to dive right into their most ambitious, and perhaps most contentious album, and I was floored by it's 90+ minutes! It was a musical journey unlike any I had ever experienced, and it ranks in my Top 20 albums of all time (at least 25, lol).

After that, I worked backwards and got the rest of the Gabriel-Era Genesis, and of the remaining albums, Trespass to SEBTP, the latter two are my favorites over the former, although Trespass has some GREAT moments on it, and I love listening to the whole thing, just knowing those boys were so young making such good music!

I also highly enjoy ATOTT to Duke, and that run of four albums is great in it's own right in the way that Trespass to SEBTP is in it's own way. Of that bit of albums, Wind And Wuthering is probably my favorite, then A Trick, tied with Duke, and lastly ATTW3, which took me a LONG time to get into, but after a couple years, I finally found some great songs and enjoyable moments on that album.

Of course, from Abacab to We Can't Dance, they have their radio hits, which are great songs, but their output in general waned for me, but I love their longer songs ("Home By The Sea/Second Home By The Sea", "Domino", "Driving The Last Spike", and most especially "Fading Lights"). Of these albums, I would definitely pick We Can't Dance over the other three.

It's hard to go on knowing a reunion beyond the 3-man group is unlikely, but at least those three came together for one more tour... unlike Yes who continue touring without Jon Anderson, causing more controversy than a lack of a 5-man Genesis tour, putting the future of Yes into some sort of limbo where no one's sure if they'll record again. As for Genesis, I think it's likely they won't record again, but I'm fine with that. They haven't put an album out in over 12 years, so I've come to accept those chances are really slim-to-none. They had a great run, and I love pretty much all of it! Now they are all "free to get back home".

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on November 23, 2009, 11:16:56 AM
I think of the post-Duke albums, the S/T album is probably my favorite, with We Can't Dance following.  Invisible Touch is fantastic if only for the number of hit songs that album generated. (title track, Land of Confusion, In Too Deep, Tonight Tonight Tonight, Throwing it All Away)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sirbradford117 on November 23, 2009, 11:27:00 AM
I think of the post-Duke albums, the S/T album is probably my favorite, with We Can't Dance following.  Invisible Touch is fantastic if only for the number of hit songs that album generated. (title track, Land of Confusion, In Too Deep, Tonight Tonight Tonight, Throwing it All Away)

This, exactly.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on November 23, 2009, 11:31:46 AM
Am I the only one that hasn't even bothered with Calling All Stations?  Genesis without either Phil Collins or Peter Gabriel is just not Genesis, in my opinion.

If I am, should I bother with it?  Orbert's post above about the album doesn't give me much hope.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on November 23, 2009, 12:02:17 PM
Nah, not really worth it. It's kinda interesting really. Genesis started out with an album not worth bothering with, and ended with one.

rumborak
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on November 23, 2009, 12:10:40 PM
Nah, not really worth it. It's kinda interesting really. Genesis started out with an album not worth bothering with, and ended with one.

rumborak


Are you also referring to From Genesis to Revelation?  If so, I agree, that album kinda sucks too.  Though at least Peter Gabriel's on vocals on that album, so it's worth it at least for that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on November 23, 2009, 12:13:59 PM
Speaking of the debut album, In The Wilderness is a great little song.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on November 23, 2009, 12:16:17 PM
The album definitely has its moments, but I guess I'm just not too keen on the '60s psychedelic pop sound they had on that album.

The progression they made from that album to Trespass is just astounding, given the small amount of time between albums.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: True Death of Life on November 23, 2009, 05:52:15 PM
OH THANK YOU PLM!!!!


Albums, I guess:

1. A Trick of the Tail
2. Selling England By the Pound
3. Invisible Touch
4. Foxtrot
5. Wind and Wuthering/Genesis
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on November 23, 2009, 07:39:16 PM
I'd just like to say that out of everything on Calling All Stations, Congo is the only song I can bear.

And From Genesis To Revelation is something I've probably listened to only once. I should find it and play it again
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 23, 2009, 10:11:33 PM
Ya know, as much as their pop-driven records from the 80s get dogged, Genesis and Invisible Touch, they both have some really good tunes on them that are reminiscent of their earlier prog days.  "Home by the Sea," "Silver Rainbow," "Domino" and "The Brazilian" are all keepers.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: True Death of Life on November 24, 2009, 08:52:11 AM
I'd just like to say that out of everything on Calling All Stations, Congo is the only song I can bear.

*shrugs* And I don't even really like that song anyway. Gets a bit obnoxious after a while.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: splent on November 24, 2009, 08:07:19 PM
An ex-girlfriend asked me to play the organ at her wedding, and she asked if I could play "Follow You, Follow Me".  Of course I said "Yes"...

... "Follow You, Follow Me" got nixed by the girl's mom.  Apparently, traditional Catholic weddings have no room for rock music.  I don't know; I'm not Catholic.

Funny you should say that.  Indeed us Catholics frown upon secular music in the sacred liturgy, but my parents snuck it into their wedding as a prelude anyway.  There was a hymn in the book apparently called "Follow You" or something like that, and they told the priest that was the song. 

My parents FTW.

That's pretty awesome.

My dad apparently sang some song by Nazareth at their wedding... but we aren't Catholic.  In fact they were Baptist... which still doesn't make sense.  But anyway...

That's awesome.  Follow You Follow Me would be KILLER at a wedding... I wish I had thought of that!!!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 24, 2009, 08:42:03 PM
It would have been.  I had an arrangement all figured out, ready to go, when I got the news.  I wasn't even invited to the wedding, since her parents were really strict and only Catholics were allowed to attend.  Yet another reason why organized religion can really be the suck.

We did two songs at my wedding.  "Thank You" by Led Zeppelin and "I'd Be So Happy" by Three Dog Night.  We went through the series of consultations with the minister, and he was a little wary (to say the least) about Led Zeppelin and Three Dog Night being played in the church, but we told him that the first song is about finding the love of your life and being thankful, and the other is about looking back after 20 years and knowing you made the right decision.  He was cool with that.  I charted up the organ parts ("Thank You" has organ, and she was the string section on "I'd Be So Happy"), and my lead singer and guitarist were my best man and one of the groomsmen.  I got to play the grand piano in the sanctuary.  That was sweet.  Playing love songs for your bride at your own wedding is the bomb.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sirbradford117 on November 24, 2009, 10:07:46 PM
It would have been.  I had an arrangement all figured out, ready to go, when I got the news.  I wasn't even invited to the wedding, since her parents were really strict and only Catholics were allowed to attend.  Yet another reason why organized religion can really be the suck.

I dislike bogus Catholics like the ones you've described... don't worry, you can come to my wedding.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on November 24, 2009, 10:18:47 PM
While we're on the subject of wedding music I've determined that the song "Neverland" by Marillion is going to be featured at my wedding one way or another.  The "Follow You Follow Me" idea is good too though.  I'll have to consider it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: True Death of Life on November 30, 2009, 11:34:21 AM
Is it just me, or does "A Trick of the Tail" remind you of Pink Floyd at all? Dunno...but it's one of the reasons I like it so much.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on November 30, 2009, 12:02:15 PM
A Trick of the Tail, moreso than any other early Genesis album, sounds like it was taken straight from a book of old fairy tales, especially A Trick of The Tail; Robbery, Assault, and Battery; Squonk; and Ripples.  Gives it a very unique sort of charm.  The album cover only helps this overall mood.  Foxtrot would be the most Floyd-sounding Genesis album, IMO.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: True Death of Life on November 30, 2009, 12:06:41 PM
Yeah, I love Squonk  :)

I guess...I was just listening to it for the first time in ages a few days ago and was struck by the resemblance.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 30, 2009, 03:39:41 PM
"Ripples", "Entangled", and "Mad Man Moon" all have somewhat long, mellow instrumental passages, so maybe that's what's sounding like Pink Floyd to you.  "Ripples" and "Entangled" especially, with the keyboards and guitars playing off of each other.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on November 30, 2009, 06:40:10 PM
I heard Squonk on commercial radio once

at first I was :|

And then I was :D
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ddtonfire on November 30, 2009, 06:55:43 PM
I heard No Son of Mine on a top 40 station once. It made my day.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on November 30, 2009, 07:03:09 PM
Well, pop-Collins era Genesis is common on most classic rock radio statiosn
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on November 30, 2009, 09:04:43 PM
I heard Squonk on commercial radio once

at first I was :|

And then I was :D

On our old classic rock station, that was the Genesis song they would usually play.  On the new one, its usually either "Thats All" or "Tonight Tonight Tonight."  Makes me sad.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: LudwigVan on December 01, 2009, 06:28:49 AM
Follow You Follow Me made it to #23 on the US charts.  Still hear it on the radio occasionally.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: True Death of Life on December 01, 2009, 07:13:51 AM
"Ripples", "Entangled", and "Mad Man Moon" all have somewhat long, mellow instrumental passages, so maybe that's what's sounding like Pink Floyd to you.  "Ripples" and "Entangled" especially, with the keyboards and guitars playing off of each other.

And the vocal harmonies...but yeah, entangled especially.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on December 01, 2009, 07:47:30 AM
I heard Squonk on commercial radio once

at first I was :|

And then I was :D

That's awesome! :D
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on December 01, 2009, 09:01:41 AM
All this talk of ATOTT... it's a great album! I've been listening to it a LOT lately, and I think I like it as much as I like Wind And Wuthering (one of my top 5 Genesis albums).

I only listen to it with the inclusion of "It's Yourself", however, and I place it between "Squonk" and "Mad Man Moon". It's a shame the ending was still faded out early on the recent remaster, but I like the addition of the extra verse the previous edit didn't have.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 01, 2009, 11:04:33 AM
I put it between "Mad Man Moon" and "Robbery, Assault & Battery", but just because there's no official place for it, so I put it between Side One and Side Two.  That's my default place for bonus tracks when no obvious placement makes sense.

After listening to "Los Endos" so many times, I still keep expecting the percussion to come in when it gets to the closing section of "It's Yourself".  But what is this extra verse?  I have a version from way back - I think it was in one of the Archive sets - and also the Nick Davis remaster, but never compared them.  Or is there another version out there?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on December 01, 2009, 11:52:34 AM
I put it between "Mad Man Moon" and "Robbery, Assault & Battery", but just because there's no official place for it, so I put it between Side One and Side Two.  That's my default place for bonus tracks when no obvious placement makes sense.

After listening to "Los Endos" so many times, I still keep expecting the percussion to come in when it gets to the closing section of "It's Yourself".  But what is this extra verse?  I have a version from way back - I think it was in one of the Archive sets - and also the Nick Davis remaster, but never compared them.  Or is there another version out there?

I don't remember what my reasoning was for my placement, but listening to it earlier, I enjoy the running order of it... I guess you can place it anywhere, really, since none of the tracks segue into each other, but having it within the first half of the album makes more sense so you have the "reprise" of the "It's Yourself" theme later on, at the beginning of "Los Endos".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_Yourself

According to this, the 2007 remaster "added an extra verse from a late 1975 demo version 'Beloved Summer'." Both the 2007 Remaster and the Archive 2 Boxset feature a version of the song that fades out 20 seconds earlier than the originally released B-Side (to both "Ripples" and "You're Own Special Way"), which clocked in at 5:46. The Archive 2 version clocks in at 5:26, while the 2007 remaster, with its extra verse, comes in at 6:15, 49 seconds longer than the prior version, but still misses the last 20 seconds.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 01, 2009, 01:23:04 PM
Weird.  It sounds like Nick literally pasted the extra verse into the previously shortened version of the song, resulting in a hybrid which has the extra verse but still fades out early.  On the other hand, I don't consider this a huge loss, as the closing section tends to go on a bit with not a lot happening (and is probably why they shortened it).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on December 01, 2009, 01:25:10 PM
A Trick of the Tail is astonishingly consistent.  Except for the title track, which is not quite as good as everything else, everything else is just about of equal quality. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 01, 2009, 01:46:07 PM
Agreed.  I always found it somewhat funny, even odd, that the title track is the weakest track on the album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on December 01, 2009, 11:11:30 PM
Agreed.  I always found it somewhat funny, even odd, that the title track is the weakest track on the album.

Perhaps the album was named as such so as to garner attention to what they may have felt as the weakest song on the album? Then again, why include THAT and exclude "It's Yourself"... *shrug*... Who knows. It's a catchy tune though, and has grown on me as I have listened to the album lately!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 01, 2009, 11:22:15 PM
It's a catchy enough song, and I don't dislike it.  It's just so... average.  Verse, verse, bridge, verse.  It's a "regular" song, the only one on the album.  (Squonk comes close, but its coda section saves it.)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on December 01, 2009, 11:34:17 PM
It's a catchy enough song, and I don't dislike it.  It's just so... average.  Verse, verse, bridge, verse.  It's a "regular" song, the only one on the album.  (Squonk comes close, but its coda section saves it.)

I suppose its poppy-tendencies and "regular" structure were foreshadowing the inevitable shift towards (more) shorter, concise songs with catchy melodies and hooks.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on December 01, 2009, 11:45:06 PM
I think it is about time we talk about how awesome "One for the Vine" is.  And more specifically, that awesome instrumental section in the middle, where Tony Banks' awesomeness is on full display.  :coolio
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mladen on December 02, 2009, 01:51:24 AM
I love the ''Follow me, I'll play the game you want me...'' part, it's lovely. My 2nd favorite on Wind and wuthering, right after Blood on the rooftops.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: True Death of Life on December 02, 2009, 07:28:12 AM
Agreed.  I always found it somewhat funny, even odd, that the title track is the weakest track on the album.

Well, naming it "Squonk" wouldn't have been such a good idea either...
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 02, 2009, 07:50:18 AM
Yeah, "Squonk" would be a crappy name.  But Genesis rarely had title tracks at all.  "The Lamb" is a bit obvious because it's a concept album; "Duke" is the same, almost.  But other than that, there's "Invisible Touch" and "A Trick of the Tail".  The rest are unrelated, save for a few inspired by lines from songs, but not the song titles themselves.  My guess is that "A Trick of the Tail" had some kind of hidden meaning.  They had just lost their lead singer and front man, and most everyone expected the band to either break up or fail completely.  Instead, the drummer took over lead vocals and they just carried on, seemingly without missing a beat.  It was a "trick" they pulled off quite well.

"One for the Vine" is easily one of my favorite Genesis tunes.  I love the "Follow me" section.  First time I heard the song, I kept waiting for it to come back; it seemed like the "chorus" after those long verses.  Nope.  It was, as Tony Banks put it, a "throwaway" part. 

I read an interview with Tony back in 78, just after "And Then There Were Three" came out, and he spoke of how their approach to songwriting was changing, how they used to intentionally juxtapose quiet sections with louder sections for effect, and often include throwaway parts in songs.  This didn't mean that that section was in any way inferior; it just served as the musical backdrop for part of the story, and thus didn't come round again.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: True Death of Life on December 03, 2009, 07:31:10 AM
Instead, the drummer took over lead vocals and they just carried on, seemingly without missing a beat.  It was a "trick" they pulled off quite well.

Why did they EVER use a drum machine?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on December 03, 2009, 07:55:37 AM
I love the ''Follow me, I'll play the game you want me...'' part, it's lovely. My 2nd favorite on Wind and wuthering, right after Blood on the rooftops.

God, thank you, Blood on the Rooftops does not get the love it should.  Great closer to W&W.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on December 03, 2009, 08:25:40 AM
I love the ''Follow me, I'll play the game you want me...'' part, it's lovely. My 2nd favorite on Wind and wuthering, right after Blood on the rooftops.

God, thank you, Blood on the Rooftops does not get the love it should.  Great closer to W&W.

What?  "Blood on the Rooftops" is a great song, but it ain't the closer on that record.  The trilogy that closes the record is tremendous:

"Unquiet Slumber for The Sleepers..."
"...In That Quiet Earth"
"Afterglow"
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on December 03, 2009, 09:14:51 AM
Wow, massive fail on my part  :facepalm:  Not sure what I was thinking, since I definitely put BOTR over Afterglow...maybe its because I used to listen to a Genesis mix with BOTR as a closer.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: mizzl on December 03, 2009, 12:46:52 PM
How bout this top3:
1) The Lamb Lies Down
2) Foxtrot
3) Selling England

BTW, Genesis is the best them!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on December 03, 2009, 12:52:25 PM
skydivingninja, it's all good.  Even the best of us make blunders from time to time. ;) :)

It is so hard to rank the best Genesis albums, but SEBTP and The Lamb are definitely 1-2 for me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 03, 2009, 01:13:08 PM
I never really got into SEBTP before, despite it having one of my all-time faves, "Firth of Fifth".  I grew up on Seconds Out, so the studio versions of "I Know What I Like (in Your Wardrobe)" and "The Cinema Show" were both somewhat disappointing.  The studio version of "The Cinema Show" is great... until the very end.  The Seconds Out version builds up to an amazing finale; the studio version fizzles back down into a reprise of the opening, almost-title track, which has never really thrilled me.  That track, and "The Battle of Epping Forest" cannot keep my attention, and are both mini-epics.

This has changed since the Nick Davis remasters.  I picked up the first two boxes a couple weeks ago when Amazon accidentally dropped their prices to $13.99 each, and I have been working my way through them.  There are tons of things I've never heard before, and in listening to this album again, I'm really finding a new appreciation for it.  I don't know if it will ever pass Nursery Cryme or Foxtrot for my favorite Gabriel-era album, but I definitely enjoy it a lot more now than before.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on December 03, 2009, 03:02:07 PM
I've still never heard Seconds Out, despite it being a highly-regarded live record, but "The Cinema Show" on Selling England... is just Godly.  I can see why one wouldn't be wild about "The Battle of Epping Forest" that much, as it has that kind of silly, whimsy British thing going on, but I dig it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ddtonfire on December 03, 2009, 04:20:34 PM
but "The Cinema Show" on Selling England... is just Godly.  

 :tup

Collins era is my favorite era but Cinema Show is my favorite song.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: LudwigVan on December 03, 2009, 04:50:04 PM
Definitely worth it if you can get your hands on Seconds Out.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 03, 2009, 07:20:46 PM
Seconds Out and Three Sides Live (or four sides if you prefer) continually battle it out for my favorite Genesis Live album.

I mean Gabriel-Genesis is OK (I guess you just had to be there, but I wasn't), but Genesis didn't really start to get interesting for me until Gabriel left (I love Gabriel's solo career).

How can you not like Bill Bruford on Seconds Out? And that tracklisting isn't too shabby either. I actually prefer the live interpretations of the Gabriel era material on this record. It's funny though. I never really got into Squonk until I heard Nick sing it with Spock's Beard as an encore about 10 years ago. I'm sure Phil two-timing with Brand X didn't hurt either.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sirbradford117 on December 03, 2009, 07:37:30 PM
This has changed since the Nick Davis remasters.  I picked up the first two boxes a couple weeks ago when Amazon accidentally dropped their prices to $13.99 each...

Dude, srsly?  Where was I when that happened???
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 03, 2009, 11:40:50 PM
It was October 23.  I'm guessing that the prices for each of the three boxes were supposed to come down to where they are now (about 30% down from their original level, which was over $100 each), but someone screwed up and set them to $13.99 each.  That's the price of a regular single CD that meets certain conditions.  I jumped on the two, but passed on the third, which I realize now was a mistake.  For that price, it would've been worth it just to have all three boxes, every studio album except the first one (which Jonathan King still holds the rights to).  By time I changed my mind and went back later that day, they'd fixed their mistake.  So it was only like that for part of a day, but they honored the price and shipped them.

Strangeness:  They both came shrink-wrapped, but one of them had a Best Buy sticker on it.  The rectangular kind with the four little slits in it to make it come apart if you try to remove it in the store.  But this was shipped directly to me from Amazon.com.  I have no idea.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sirbradford117 on December 04, 2009, 06:43:12 AM
Damn, sorry I missed it.  I have, however, heard mixed reviews of the new mixes.  Some think they are an improvement, some dislike the changes. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on December 04, 2009, 07:41:19 AM
Anybody see the 1970-75 box set was nominated for best surround sound at the grammies?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 04, 2009, 07:49:05 AM
Each album is not just remastered, but remixed, and that's a practice I do have some issues with.  The earlier releases benefit the most, because the sound is cleaned up a lot and you can hear of lot of subtlety you just couldn't hear before.  When they're strumming two 12-strings and a six-string (Banks played guitar on the earlier albums) they blend into a nice backdrop for the vocals and/or flute.  Now you can clearly hear each part.  The magic isn't removed or anything, and in some ways it even emphasizes the mastery these guys had at laying down patterns.  Also, I only have ancient vinyl editions, or first-run CDs, of the Gabriel-era stuff.  When I listen to the new mixes, it's not clear whether I'm hearing new things because everything's so much cleaner, or because he's messed with the mix.  Overall, I like the first box.  These albums have definitely never sounded better.

On the other hand, there are places where it seems Nick Davis said "I've always liked this riff; now is my chance to make it louder!"  On some of the later stuff, there seems to be overcompression, and that's just bad.  The idea that some parts are supposed to be quieter than others, as an artistic decision, is often lost since everything is now clearer and pushed to 10.  There are some great riffs and licks that are meant to be countermelodies and support, but now they're up front, and I think that's a mistake.  Genesis, at least up through the 70's, achieved a great sound by layering the parts, but not all parts had, or were supposed to have, equal volume.

Tony Banks approved the remixes, so Nick doesn't get all the blame/credit for this.  But while Tony obviously had a hand in creating the original music, it's possible that these mixes sound better to his ears just because they're a new take on work he did 30 or more years ago.  Sometimes just being different is better.

But the best news of all is that every album now has a 5.1 mix, which obviously provides greater separation of the soundstage and makes it even easier to hear individual parts.  I didn't know that about the Grammy nod, but it's not surprising.  A lot of work went into these mixes, and they do sound great.  Most albums have a number of video features as well.  Lost or rare concert footage, original videos, that kind of thing.  If you're a fan, these are at the very least quite interesting to watch.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 04, 2009, 03:56:00 PM
How long did that Amazon gaffe last?

I only picked up the second box when Best Buy screwed up and was selling it for $50 shortly after it came out.

Is there a web site that tracks these screw ups?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 04, 2009, 09:00:40 PM
It was only part of a day, several hours tops.  I follow a board that focuses on HD audio and video, and the Genesis remasters had a thread because of the 5.1 mixes.  I'd been thinking of getting either the Gabriel box or early Collins box, but had pretty much decided against the second Collins box because it only has four albums in it, and the later albums got pretty weak.  

When Amazon screwed up and set them all to $13.99, someone posted about it on the AV board, and I jumped on the first two boxes because those were the ones I'd been thinking about.  Later I realized I should just grab the third one anyway, but when I went back, they'd fixed it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: mizzl on December 06, 2009, 03:48:02 AM
SUPPERS READY!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on December 06, 2009, 09:00:22 AM
We watched in reverence
As Narcissus is turned to a flower...

(https://blog.newsok.com/staticblog/files/2009/09/Peter-Gabriel-2.jpg)

A flower?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on December 08, 2009, 01:58:39 PM
We watched in reverence
As Narcissus is turned to a flower...

(https://blog.newsok.com/staticblog/files/2009/09/Peter-Gabriel-2.jpg)

A flower?

I love that part :D.  Whenever I listen to that song, I always say "A Flower?" along with Gabriel.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on December 09, 2009, 05:34:28 AM
Question:  Are these box sets worth the full price?  I was thinking of getting them at some point.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mladen on December 09, 2009, 06:12:45 AM
I love that part :D.  Whenever I listen to that song, I always say "A Flower?" along with Gabriel.
I love the section that comes after ''A Flower?'' part. It's just unbelievably good.  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on December 09, 2009, 06:14:34 AM
I love that part :D.  Whenever I listen to that song, I always say "A Flower?" along with Gabriel.
I love the section that comes after ''A Flower?'' part. It's just unbelievably good.  :hefdaddy

Yeah, Willow Farm is my favorite part of Supper's Ready.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: mizzl on December 09, 2009, 07:23:34 AM
Supper's Ready is definitely one of prog rock's pinnacles. All hail Peter Gabriel  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on December 09, 2009, 07:46:47 AM
Dammit, I was hoping I could turn this thread into a Supper's Ready lyrical reenactment.  C'mon DTF!   ;D
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on December 09, 2009, 07:55:49 AM
Hello babe with your guardian eyes so blue
Hey my baby don't you know our love is true
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: mizzl on December 09, 2009, 08:14:46 AM
Coming closer with our eyes, a distance falls around our bodies.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on December 09, 2009, 08:16:28 AM
Out in the garden, the moon seems very bright
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: mizzl on December 09, 2009, 08:18:41 AM
Six saintly shrouded men move across the lawn slowly.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 09, 2009, 08:26:39 AM
A seventh walks in front
With a cross held high in hand


Question:  Are these box sets worth the full price?  I was thinking of getting them at some point.

"Full price" continues to drop, so I suppose more and more people will be finding the answer to be "Yes".

If you're not super familiar with the original recordings, you will like these.  The sound is fantastic and it lets you clearly hear everything being played, and with Genesis music there's a lot of layering and interplay between the parts, so that's really a big deal.  The biggest problem the longtime fans have with them is that they aren't just remastered, but remixed.  There are now parts louder (and sometimes softer) than before, and that bothers people who have been listening to these albums for 30 years and now someone has messed with the mix.

But... it's not like he tweaked every single part of every single song.  Most of the time, I find them to be a great improvement.  It's only once in a while, maybe once every four of five songs, when I'll hear something that jumps out.

The real goldmine is the 5.1 mixes, the outtakes and B-sides, and all the video extras.  Every album has been mixed in 5.1, and if you have the means to play them (any standard DVD player through a surround system) they're pretty cool.

I'd say that if you don't already have most of the included albums, or are a big enough fan that the extras will mean something, and also have the financial means then go for it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on December 09, 2009, 08:27:09 AM
AND ITS

Hey babe, with your guardian eyes so blue
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: mizzl on December 09, 2009, 08:28:34 AM
AND ITS

Hey babe, with your guardian eyes so blue
FAIL!

and its..
HEEY BABE, your supper's waiting for youhoo!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on December 09, 2009, 08:38:14 AM
 :facepalm: I am so full of fail in this thread.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on December 09, 2009, 08:50:37 AM
I listened to Selling England by the Pound last night for the first time in ages. I know I'm going to sound like Captain Obvious here but...

... That record is soooooo good.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: mizzl on December 09, 2009, 08:52:49 AM
I listened to Selling England by the Pound last night for the first time in ages. I know I'm going to sound like Captain Obvious here but...

... That record is soooooo good.
:hefdaddy
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on December 09, 2009, 08:59:40 AM
I listened to Selling England by the Pound last night for the first time in ages. I know I'm going to sound like Captain Obvious here but...

... That record is soooooo good.
(https://stevescars.digitaloutsider.org/captain_obvious.jpg)

:biggrin:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on December 09, 2009, 09:33:27 AM
I listened to Selling England by the Pound last night for the first time in ages. I know I'm going to sound like Captain Obvious here but...

... That record is soooooo good.

:heart
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on December 16, 2009, 08:49:25 AM
So Genesis was just inducted into the Rock Hall of Fame

The question now is: Will Hackett and Gabriel show up?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: mizzl on December 16, 2009, 09:44:27 AM
Genesis is in the RRHoF?  :metal :metal :metal
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 16, 2009, 10:34:42 AM
Depends.  Were they invited?

I don't want to turn this into a "The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a total fucking joke" thread (even though that's probably inevitable now) but they do have a tendency to invite only certain members of a band.  If the band is still around, the current lineup is invited.  This avoids such issues as whether or not any particular previous lineup is the "classic" lineup and/or the one responsible for the band being so great in the first place.  If the band is no longer around, but had any changes in personnel, they don't necessarily bother tracking down all the members.

While I'd love to think that the Banks-Collins-Gabriel-Hackett-Rutherford lineup is being inducted, that lineup was not the original lineup, was not the lineup on the band's final studio album, was not the lineup that reunited in 2007, and is not the one that most people think of first.  They were together four years out of the band's 40, and put out four studio albums of the band's 15.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on December 16, 2009, 12:02:35 PM
Whatever lineup they're inducting, Genesis definitely deserves the honor.  Not that I hold a very high opinion of the HOF in the first place.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: mizzl on December 16, 2009, 12:11:47 PM
Whatever lineup they're inducting, Genesis definitely deserves the honor.  Not that I hold a very high opinion of the HOF in the first place.
This. Exactly this.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 16, 2009, 04:51:46 PM
The band Genesis definitely deserves the honor.  Is there some kind of award or plaque or something that's given to the band?  I don't even know.  But if so, does it just say "Genesis" on it, or does it list names?  That would be the potentially sticky part.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Super Dude on February 09, 2010, 07:29:01 AM
Please vote in the survivor, everyone:

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=10305.msg338485;topicseen#new
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on February 09, 2010, 10:34:31 AM
Regarding the RRHOF, I read in Rolling Stone a few weeks back that Phil, Mike, and Tony aren't sure if they'll attend the ceremony, but that they'd keep the date open. Same with Gabriel, I think.


I don't think Hackett wants anything to do with the band anymore :sadpanda:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on February 09, 2010, 11:43:17 AM
Peter has stated that he would not want to perform, because they learned last time that you can't just get up there and do it after decades away from it.  You have to rehearse, and he's prepping for his own solo tour right now.  He said he might try to make it if his rehearsal schedule allows it.  (In other words, it doesn't mean much to him, not enough to blow off a couple days' rehearsal.)

I haven't heard anything from Steve regarding it, but I would be surprised if he gave a damn, either.  Artists with actual merit and talent know that the RRHOF is a joke.  They'll go if they're not doing anything else that night, otherwise why bother?  They don't have an album to promote right now, they aren't going to play, and they honestly don't care about the "honor".
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on February 10, 2010, 10:48:17 PM
Peter has stated that he would not want to perform, because they learned last time that you can't just get up there and do it after decades away from it.  You have to rehearse, and he's prepping for his own solo tour right now.  He said he might try to make it if his rehearsal schedule allows it.  (In other words, it doesn't mean much to him, not enough to blow off a couple days' rehearsal.)

I haven't heard anything from Steve regarding it, but I would be surprised if he gave a damn, either.  Artists with actual merit and talent know that the RRHOF is a joke.  They'll go if they're not doing anything else that night, otherwise why bother?  They don't have an album to promote right now, they aren't going to play, and they honestly don't care about the "honor".

Well said. :tup :tup
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on April 27, 2010, 06:30:36 AM
Bump. I stole Mizzl's Genesis survivor. Doing Trespass right now
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on April 27, 2010, 07:06:31 AM
Excellent!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ddtonfire on April 27, 2010, 07:13:26 AM
Might have been posted before, but Tony Banks has personality (and Led Zeppelin crashes a Genesis interview):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZvL1gprM9M
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 27, 2010, 11:59:56 AM
Yeah, Tony Banks is a very conservative guy, and most of the time seems like a stick in the mud, but I've seen him occassionally open up and joke around a bit.  This bit here is about as loose as he gets, but it's probably more than most people have seen.  Phil Collins is course a clown and a very outgoing guy, and Mike Rutherford is somewhere in between, but I'm sure that they've seen a "fun" side of Banks that the public doesn't get to see very often.  Great musician/composer or not, you don't stay in a band for 30 years with someone who's literally no fun to be around.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on April 27, 2010, 12:13:37 PM
  Great musician/composer or not, you don't stay in a band for 30 years with someone who's literally no fun to be around.

So when are John Petrucci and Mike Portnoy leaving Dream Theater to get away from John Myung? :p
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 27, 2010, 02:33:43 PM
Heh heh, good one.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ddtonfire on April 27, 2010, 04:55:10 PM
  Great musician/composer or not, you don't stay in a band for 30 years with someone who's literally no fun to be around.

So when are John Petrucci and Mike Portnoy leaving Dream Theater to get away from John Myung? :p

They already did and called it "Liquid Tension Experiment."
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ZBomber on April 27, 2010, 06:21:21 PM
Even the pop-era version of Genesis is awesome. I've been listening to Duke and the selftitled a lot.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on April 27, 2010, 06:40:45 PM
Duke is a masterpiece, IMO.  The S/T is an awesome album too.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 27, 2010, 08:52:02 PM
Time for a different direction.

In the 80's, Phil Collins' solo career was taking off, while Genesis seemed to be taking more/longer breaks, and their music was also getting simpler.  Less prog, more pop.  The conclusion most people drew (including myself) was that Phil was leading Genesis into the land of pop music.  Compare albums like the self-titled or Invisible Touch to any Gabriel-era album, and there's no question that the prog side was losing out to the pop side.

But... Banks and Rutherford were always first to defend Phil and claim that the band, as a committee, had chosen to strip down the sound and simplify things.  I still didn't believe it for a long time.  Then I picked up a few Tony Banks solo albums (which no one actually does).  Every song on Bankstatement was written by Tony, but it's a collection of pop songs.  A few of them have some depth, show a little of Tony's famous knack for cool chord and key changes, but it's not prog at all, and in general it's much more like 80's Genesis than 70's Genesis.

I also picked up a really cool album called Strictly, Inc. While it was meant to be the self-titled album by a new band, it's sometimes filed under Tony Banks, since he's the only recognizable name.  Jack Hues (from Wang Chung) is the vocalist.  I've always liked his voice.  It's mostly "regular" songs in the four-to-six minute range, but with Tony's amazing chords and sounds, and while simple compared to 70's Genesis, each has considerably more depth than "regular" pop songs.  Some are about as prog as, say, early Kansas or Styx.  Shorter, not too complex, but definitely more going on than what you'd hear on the radio.  The album closes with a 17-minute epic which is definitely prog.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on April 28, 2010, 07:49:15 AM
Remember to vote in the survivor guys :P
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on May 02, 2010, 08:22:17 AM
I need a tiebreaker vote for the Final Trespass round
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on May 10, 2010, 09:18:59 AM
The Lamb survivor is up right now here: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=13143.0

Please vote :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on May 21, 2010, 07:59:25 PM
A Trick of the Tail survivor is now up in P/S

vote plz kthxbai
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sonatafanica on May 24, 2010, 10:55:09 PM
I've never really listened to Genesis before, and I don't typically like bands from their era so I pretty much just blew them off. But today I saw their name and decided to give them a try.

I put their name into youtube and picked the first video that caught my attention. It was "No Son of Mine". I thought it was pretty cool, but I could not get over how horribly loud the snare drum is.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: cygnusx1jg on May 25, 2010, 12:26:45 AM
Been watching The Way We Walk DVD and I'm convinced that the song Driving the Last Spike has to be their most underrated song of the 80's+ Collins era.  My God, that song is so powerful, especially live.



"They'll never see the likes of us again!"
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ddtonfire on May 25, 2010, 06:55:30 AM
I've never really listened to Genesis before, and I don't typically like bands from their era so I pretty much just blew them off. But today I saw their name and decided to give them a try.

I put their name into youtube and picked the first video that caught my attention. It was "No Son of Mine". I thought it was pretty cool, but I could not get over how horribly loud the snare drum is.

It's one of my favorite drum sounds. Phil Collins practically invented the gated snare and defined the entire 80's drum sound.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on May 25, 2010, 07:00:38 AM
I've never really listened to Genesis before, and I don't typically like bands from their era so I pretty much just blew them off. But today I saw their name and decided to give them a try.

I put their name into youtube and picked the first video that caught my attention. It was "No Son of Mine". I thought it was pretty cool, but I could not get over how horribly loud the snare drum is.

It's one of my favorite drum sounds. Phil Collins practically invented the gated snare and defined the entire 80's drum sound.

You need to Youtube Firth of Fifth and Dance on a Volcano (JR did a cover of DoaV, too :metal)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 25, 2010, 09:12:16 AM
"Driving the Last Spike" is definitely a killer tune, as is "Fading Lights" from that same record (which also features one of the most God-awful songs ever, "I Can't Dance").
 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on May 25, 2010, 09:19:11 AM
No Son Of Mine is one if the best songs from the Collins era.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on May 25, 2010, 09:24:21 AM
"Driving the Last Spike" is definitely a killer tune, as is "Fading Lights" from that same record (which also features one of the most God-awful songs ever, "I Can't Dance").
 

I actually like "I Can't Dance", even if the lyrics are terrible.  It's certainly better than "Hold on My Heart", which I usually just skip when I listen to that album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sonatafanica on May 25, 2010, 09:55:41 AM
I've never really listened to Genesis before, and I don't typically like bands from their era so I pretty much just blew them off. But today I saw their name and decided to give them a try.

I put their name into youtube and picked the first video that caught my attention. It was "No Son of Mine". I thought it was pretty cool, but I could not get over how horribly loud the snare drum is.

It's one of my favorite drum sounds. Phil Collins practically invented the gated snare and defined the entire 80's drum sound.

Well, it's really god damn loud.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on May 25, 2010, 11:27:17 AM
Make sure you check out all their different eras, as there's a lot of great music in each era.  My personal favorite era is the prog/pop transition period from ATToT through Duke.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on May 25, 2010, 12:00:00 PM
duke is a great record
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 25, 2010, 01:05:14 PM
Duke is awesome.  It was the first CD I ever bought.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: EPICVIEW on May 27, 2010, 09:45:22 AM
Duke is awesome.  It was the first CD I ever bought.

It is great, and it was one of my first CDs also.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on May 27, 2010, 10:11:44 PM
So I'm here in bed with my iPod on and listening to From Genesis To Revelation for, perhaps, the first time in a year or two, and I find it a very interesting and pleasant listen! There are a few good tunes on here, with some catchy hooks and melodies!

I think it'd be interesting if Nick D'Virgilio and his friends from Rewiring Genesis took a stab at this album, especially with it's string and horn arrangements, it'd be perfect for Nick to re-make with Mark Hornsby. Maybe extend some of the piece to make proper endings and segues that just aren't crossfades.

Anyways, that's just my thought on FGTR... this album really shows off Tony and Peter, but then again, so did every album they made together with Genesis!  :lol

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 27, 2010, 10:28:40 PM
FGTR is such an anomaly in the Genesis catalog, but it is also a very good freshman effort by a fledgling band.  Jonathan King may be a crook (and that is a maybe), but he did see something in these guys, and must be credited for giving them their break, such as it was.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on May 27, 2010, 10:31:35 PM
FGTR is such an anomaly in the Genesis catalog, but it is also a very good freshman effort by a fledgling band.  Jonathan King may be a crook (and that is a maybe), but he did see something in these guys, and must be credited for giving them their break, such as it was.

Indeed, and to think they were only 16-18 years old when they made the album... how many kids have done that?! And then gone on to do something MORE with it afterwards? Not many like Genesis, I'm sure...

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on June 08, 2010, 07:36:00 AM
...And Then There Were Three... survivor up in P/S

Please vote. I know you all know the material :P
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on July 01, 2010, 11:23:36 AM
Bump for Duke
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Quadrochosis on September 04, 2010, 07:39:10 PM
Thread Revive!

I have been totally getting into Genesis BIG TIME lately. Before recently, the only album I had ever really heard (and liked) was Selling England By The Pound, but lately I've been spinning Foxtrot and Duke a lot, and I am totally taken by the latter, something about it is just so fucking amazing to me. I've listened to it at least once a day since ZBomber showed it to me almost a week ago. "Duchess" has to be one of the greatest songs ever to play REALLY loud.

I spun Nursery Cryme today and LOVED it. I had heard the TA cover of Hogweed, but I think that I like the original better.

What other albums should I be checking out first and foremost? (My father owns most of their stuff on vinyl I have everything from Trespass through Abacab here at hand.)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on September 05, 2010, 02:30:37 AM
Check out A Trick Of The Tail, their first album without Peter (and first with Phil on lead vocals). That's another great one.

Glad you enjoy their stuff! Besides Selling England (my favourite) I really love Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme too. The Lamb is still hard to digest for me, but it has a couple of great ones on it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: tri.ad on September 05, 2010, 03:04:09 AM
I think I may be the only person on this forum who actually likes Calling All Stations.

My favourite Genesis album so far is A Trick Of The Tail, but I love The Cinema Show. That's what I love about Tony's keyboard playing - he knows how to do long solos (and as far as I remember, the key solo in TCS lasts about five minutes).
The self-titled album should arrive soon as well.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on September 05, 2010, 08:36:02 AM
What other albums should I be checking out first and foremost? (My father owns most of their stuff on vinyl I have everything from Trespass through Abacab here at hand.)

The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
A Trick of the Tail
Wind & Wuthering

Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on September 05, 2010, 09:41:42 AM
What other albums should I be checking out first and foremost? (My father owns most of their stuff on vinyl I have everything from Trespass through Abacab here at hand.)

The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
A Trick of the Tail
Wind & Wuthering



These three plus ...And Then There Were Three.... It's usually regarded as being a bit lack luster, but you have to give them some credit for putting out an album after Hackett left, and for Rutherford for doing all the guitar parts. There are some really good gems on there, and IMO, "Follow You, Follow Me" isn't as bad as some people think it is.

But I definitely would check out the 4-man Genesis albums first - especially W&W, which is one of my top 3 favorite Genesis albums of all time!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Moonchild on September 05, 2010, 03:47:43 PM
Abacab doesn't get any love. The title track is somewhat an excellent way of remembering Phils great versatile drumming.

80's Genesis has some crap sure. The one that gets me the most is how long We Can't Dance is, there are some ballads there that are complete Phil Collins solo songs.


the Mama record first part is amazing pop prog IMO.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Quadrochosis on September 05, 2010, 04:13:44 PM
Listened to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway today and I can safely say it was one of the best albums I've ever heard. Holy shit it was mindblowing.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on September 05, 2010, 04:21:33 PM
Listened to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway today and I can safely say it was one of the best albums I've ever heard. Holy shit it was mindblowing.

If you loved it that much, you should try listening to the version recorded by Rewiring Genesis, featuring Nick D'Virgilio on drums and vocals! They recorded all the keyboard/synth parts on wind/brass/string instruments, and did some interesting arrangements that really show how versatile the songs and songwriting was on that album, showcasing just how different TLLDOB really is from the band's previous albums.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: tri.ad on September 08, 2010, 11:08:02 AM
HAHA-HA-eeooooo.

The self-titled album arrived today and I was reminded of what a great, great song Mama is.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 08, 2010, 12:20:25 PM
Oh yeah.  The first time I put on the self-titled album and heard the long version of Mama, I freaked just a bit, because I'd never heard that low E droning throughout.  The build-up and atmosphere of that song is incredible.  

Awesome moments: When the drums finally come crashing in and you realize that it's been all Roland up to that point, when you notice that there's only one cymbal crash in the entire song, when you realize that Phil never actually says the word "heart" (he lets it trail off, every time).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Quadrochosis on September 08, 2010, 06:15:34 PM
Listened to A Trick of the Tail today. Good stuff! I love the melody reprisals in the last song, it was a great way to close the album. My favorite track was "Ripples".

What else DTF? Getting into this band super big time haha
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: LudwigVan on September 08, 2010, 07:16:52 PM
Listened to A Trick of the Tail today. Good stuff! I love the melody reprisals in the last song, it was a great way to close the album. My favorite track was "Ripples".

What else DTF? Getting into this band super big time haha

Wind and Wuthering is next.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 08, 2010, 10:03:40 PM
Definitely.  Then Seconds Out.  Then either go back to the five-piece era, or forward to the three-piece era, but eventually do both.  You're at the perfect starting point with Genesis.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Quadrochosis on September 10, 2010, 07:34:29 PM
So far I've listened to..

Nursery Cryme
Foxtrot
Selling England By the Pound
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
A Trick of the Tail
Duke

My rankings so far..

1. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
2. Selling England By the Pound
3. Duke
4. A Trick of the Tail
5. Foxtrot
6. Nursery Cryme

That being said, I still LOVE Nursery Cryme. I'm gonna take the advice of DTF and check out W&W next.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on September 10, 2010, 07:41:20 PM
So far I've listened to..

Nursery Cryme
Foxtrot
Selling England By the Pound
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
A Trick of the Tail
Duke

My rankings so far..

1. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
2. Selling England By the Pound
3. Duke
4. A Trick of the Tail
5. Foxtrot
6. Nursery Cryme

That being said, I still LOVE Nursery Cryme. I'm gonna take the advice of DTF and check out W&W next.

Very nice! After W&W, I would go back one step and check out Trespass. Sure it doesn't have Hackett or Collins, but it's got 6 pretty good songs on it by a very young and fledgling Genesis. After all that, check out ...And Then There Were Three... ...and Abacab (only if you dare...).

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on September 11, 2010, 06:24:53 PM
A Trick of the Tail is still my favorite Genesis album.  Definitely in my top 20 albums ever.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Quadrochosis on September 19, 2010, 02:17:47 PM
Alright.. listened to a few more Genesis albums recently

- From Genesis to Revelation
- Wind & Wuthering

W&W is freakin' brilliant! Totally blown away by it and I was compeltely surprised at that, seeing as ATotT didn't really blow me away, even though I really enjoyed it.

Here are updated rankings:

1. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
2. Selling England by the Pound
3. Foxtrot
4. Nursery Cryme
5. Wind & Wuthering
6. Duke
7. A Trick of the Tail
8. From Genesis to Revelation

That being said, I have really enjoyed all of the albums by them that I've heard. As you can see Foxtrot and NC grew on me a lot and thus moved up.

My plans for the next few albums to check out are Trespass, Genesis Live and Seconds Out. After that I'll dig into the Collins-led era more deeply.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on September 19, 2010, 02:19:19 PM
seconds out is fantastic
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on September 19, 2010, 02:46:23 PM
Alright.. listened to a few more Genesis albums recently

- From Genesis to Revelation
- Wind & Wuthering

W&W is freakin' brilliant! Totally blown away by it and I was compeltely surprised at that, seeing as ATotT didn't really blow me away, even though I really enjoyed it.

Here are updated rankings:

1. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
2. Selling England by the Pound
3. Foxtrot
4. Nursery Cryme
5. Wind & Wuthering
6. Duke
7. A Trick of the Tail
8. From Genesis to Revelation

That being said, I have really enjoyed all of the albums by them that I've heard. As you can see Foxtrot and NC grew on me a lot and thus moved up.

My plans for the next few albums to check out are Trespass, Genesis Live and Seconds Out. After that I'll dig into the Collins-led era more deeply.

 :tup W&W is definitely Top 5 Genesis for me, if not at least top 3! Some really great songs and performances on that whole album.

As for the Collins-Era Genesis albums, I'd start right where you left off with Abacab, then Genesis. After those two, go for next two. I think you'll find there are some great songs on these four albums, some not-so-proggy yet very-catchy tunes, and some great songs (particularly their lengthier pieces).

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Quadrochosis on September 19, 2010, 02:48:57 PM
Well I still have to go to ...And Then There Were Three, so I'll probably check that one out first.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on September 19, 2010, 02:58:18 PM
Well I still have to go to ...And Then There Were Three, so I'll probably check that one out first.

Oh right! Somehow I either didn't see that you hadn't heard it yet, or just completely forgot about it. ...And Then There Were Three... is a good album, but a step back from the amazing Wind & Wuthering. It certainly made Duke a few steps forward from where they were.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 19, 2010, 08:33:15 PM
Well I still have to go to ...And Then There Were Three, so I'll probably check that one out first.

Definitely go in order through the 3-piece era.  Experience the evolution of their sound in its natural habitat.  (Or something like that.  I'm not sober.)

seconds out is fantastic

This is true.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on September 20, 2010, 05:49:15 AM
I have a question for all of you (again):

I need someone to take over the Genesis Survivor starting with the consolation so that I can start another one I have planned. Normally I wouldn't mind just doing both but I really don't have the energy to worry about two survivors. Because We Can't Dance is in it's final round, and we're not doing Calling All Stations, I was hoping one of you might volunteer to me today. I will PM the Consolation list and uncompleted Final list so you don't have to worry about going back and looking for that stuff.

Please?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on September 20, 2010, 10:56:23 AM
Nobody?

:itchy:

kidding :P
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 20, 2010, 11:36:43 AM
I'd love to, but I'm not here with enough regularity or certainly to run a survivor.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on September 20, 2010, 12:04:00 PM
hrrrm. I need somebody to do it. Who should I make my bitch?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Vahvahenki on September 20, 2010, 03:27:48 PM
I've been trying to get Trick Of The Tail but I'm disturbed by the lack of Genesis studio albums in record stores in my area, all they carry is a best-of singles collection. :huh:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 20, 2010, 03:38:03 PM
That's the trend these days.  Only the super-popular mega-hot stars get slots in the stores.  If you're lucky, you'll find a lame Greatest Hits collection for someone who used to be reasonably popular (as in this case).  For anything else, you have to go online, and that usually means paying full price.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on September 20, 2010, 03:38:56 PM
Who pays full price for CD's online?

I don't
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on September 20, 2010, 03:46:40 PM
Who pays full price for CD's online?

I don't

I don't either. On Amazon, I save anywhere from 15-75% on new CDs. Amazon Marketplace is the best thing ever. I've bought entire discographies that way, saving a TON of money. If it weren't for that, I'd probably have bought everything digitally, but I'm really happy I collect/purchase physical products, and I do so at a relatively low price!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 20, 2010, 04:02:52 PM
Hmmm... if this is true, I may someday buy CDs online again.  Five years ago, that definitely wasn't the case.  Amazon was known for their huge selection, but you always paid for it, which is why I chose to complete all my back catalogues via alternative means.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Vahvahenki on September 20, 2010, 04:05:28 PM
For anything else, you have to go online, and that usually means paying full price.

And that means, for me at least, you don't get to go to record stores and walk out with the albums you were looking for. That to me is almost as important as having the physical product. :-\
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on September 20, 2010, 04:14:05 PM
Hmmm... if this is true, I may someday buy CDs online again.  Five years ago, that definitely wasn't the case.  Amazon was known for their huge selection, but you always paid for it, which is why I chose to complete all my back catalogues via alternative means.

These days they're almost always discounted. Not only that, though, the third-party sellers on Amazon sell them for even cheaper. I've been buying CD's from a store in Virginia/North Carolina called MovieMars for about a year now, at an average 8 bucks per album +2 bucks S/H. Not bad at all. You have to look at their ratings though, much like eBay
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on September 20, 2010, 04:17:23 PM
For anything else, you have to go online, and that usually means paying full price.

And that means, for me at least, you don't get to go to record stores and walk out with the albums you were looking for. That to me is almost as important as having the physical product. :-\

Unfortunately, most record stores may not carry some of the more obscure releases that prog-fans are often looking for, especially if they're only being sold through a band's own label, which many have these days (Marillion, Steven Wilson/PT, The Flower Kings/Roine Stolt have Foxtrot while Jonas Reingold has Reingold Records).

And like PLM, I have bought from many high-rated sellers on Amazon, including moviemars, importcds, and many many more. As my personal rule of thumb, I only buy from sellers with a rating of 95% or higher, and generally with at least a few thousand feedback.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Quadrochosis on September 21, 2010, 11:06:54 PM
Guys, I have the best theory about "The Cinema Show". Basically, the lyrics are about two people getting ready for there date. Romeo wishes to "go to bed with" Juliet, so he is hoping for some action. Basically, the middle part with the beautiful vocal layerings is the date, and how great it is going.. Maybe how well they enjoyed the movie. Then the pace changes. They arrive at Juliet's house, and they proceed inside, and as they walk in, the keyboard solo starts.. for you see, the keyboard solo is the sex.  :police:

hahaha

 :hat :hat
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on September 21, 2010, 11:14:38 PM
Guys, I have the best theory about "The Cinema Show". Basically, the lyrics are about two people getting ready for there date. Romeo wishes to "go to bed with" Juliet, so he is hoping for some action. Basically, the middle part with the beautiful vocal layerings is the date, and how great it is going.. Maybe how well they enjoyed the movie. Then the pace changes. They arrive at Juliet's house, and they proceed inside, and as they walk in, the keyboard solo starts.. for you see, the keyboard solo is the sex.  :police:

hahaha

 :hat :hat

"Who wants to come?"

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: yeshaberto on September 21, 2010, 11:25:09 PM
I am buying selling england right now...I never have given them a try other than a few of their radio hits.  we will see how it goes
is there a quintessential song that is recommended that says it all about them?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on September 21, 2010, 11:37:36 PM

is there a quintessential song that is recommended that says it all about them?

"Firth of Fifth."
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Quadrochosis on September 21, 2010, 11:41:35 PM
I am buying selling england right now...I never have given them a try other than a few of their radio hits.  we will see how it goes
is there a quintessential song that is recommended that says it all about them?

"Firth of Fifth" and "The Cinema Show". You picked an excellent album to start dude!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: yeshaberto on September 21, 2010, 11:43:13 PM
cool...looking forward to listening to it manana
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on September 22, 2010, 12:48:47 AM

is there a quintessential song that is recommended that says it all about them?

"Firth of Fifth."

Firth of Fifth + Steve's guitar solo = eargasm.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: tri.ad on September 22, 2010, 12:53:42 AM
Firth Of Fifth is definitely one of the best songs on SEBTP, but I like The Cinema Show a tad better. Tony Banks's keyboard solo is just godly.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Quadrochosis on September 23, 2010, 11:15:40 PM
Firth Of Fifth is definitely one of the best songs on SEBTP, but I like The Cinema Show a tad better. Tony Banks's keyboard solo is just godly.

Agree, but FoF is still amazing. It's easily my favorite Hackett solo.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ddtonfire on September 26, 2010, 01:43:55 PM
Firth Of Fifth is definitely one of the best songs on SEBTP, but I like The Cinema Show a tad better. Tony Banks's keyboard solo is just godly.
Best 7/8 section in history of music!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 26, 2010, 05:06:47 PM
Never really thought about it before, but if I had to choose, that could easily be it.

I especially love the live version on Seconds Out, where it builds up to the big finish, rathering the downshifting into the reprise, which it has always felt like to me, since I was familiar with the Seconds Out version first.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on September 29, 2010, 10:39:41 AM
Bump to ask once again if somebody could take over the last of the Genesis Survivor?

I really don't want to do two at once :-\
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on October 15, 2010, 12:57:39 PM
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/phil_collins_why_genesis_is_over.html

"Phil Collins has revealed the reason behind his comment that Genesis is effectively over: hes expecting to retire from making music after finishing promotional work on his new covers album.

The singer and drummer last month caused controversy by seeming to shut down the prog-rock back by the back door, saying: I think Genesis are no longer. I dont foresee doing any more Genesis shows it doesnt fit in with my life. He also infuriated some long-time fans by suggesting hed enjoyed working with other musicians more than with his own band."

 :(
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on October 15, 2010, 01:21:39 PM
I'm not sure why any Genesis fan would get infuriated by that.  Genesis has done any new material in 13 years, and Collins hasn't done any new material with them in almost 20, so what is the big deal?  Except for a reunion tour that was basically a cash grab, Collins hasn't been part of the band in nearly two decades.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on October 15, 2010, 01:24:15 PM
But I want to see Genesis live :(
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on October 15, 2010, 01:57:02 PM
But I want to see Genesis live :(

Me too :(
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: toro on October 15, 2010, 02:01:28 PM
But I want to see Genesis live :(
Me too, and now I'm never gonna see them live... I'll never be open again.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Quadrochosis on October 15, 2010, 08:51:25 PM
But I want to see Genesis live :(
Me too, and now I'm never gonna see them live... I'll never be open again.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ZBomber on October 26, 2010, 10:13:44 AM
Mama... Mama... MAMAAAAA!

I never really was a fan of the self titled (aside from about 2 songs), but it has been warming up to me this week.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 26, 2010, 10:56:48 AM
Can't you feel my har?
Can't you feel my har?
Can't you feel my ho-wo, wo-wo?
Now listen to me, mama.
Mama, mama, you're taking away my last chance!
Don't take it away!
Can't you feel my har!?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on October 26, 2010, 11:21:15 AM
I like the self-titled CD quite a bit.  The hits are all good, "Home by the Sea" is killer, and "Silver Rainbow" is one of the best post-70s Genesis tunes. 

And before anyone asks, yes, I like "Illegal Alien" a lot.  I don't get the hate that many fans seem to have for that song.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 26, 2010, 11:31:55 AM
A lot of people don't like "Illegal Alien" because it seems to be making light of a serious social issue.  Genesis has stated that their intent was the exactly the opposite.  To write a song about a serious social issue.  Note that this was around the same time as Phil's "Another Day in Paradise" -- another song that addresses a social issue.

I personally don't like it because it's annoying and repetitive.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on October 26, 2010, 11:38:32 AM
Well, I have to admit that I always got a kick of the video way back in the early days of MTV, so a great part of my liking for it is nostalgia-related.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on October 26, 2010, 11:45:58 AM
Speaking of 80s Genesis, what do you guys think of Invisible Touch as a whole?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on October 26, 2010, 11:49:47 AM
Speaking of 80s Genesis, what do you guys think of Invisible Touch as a whole?


It's good. A notch back from the self-titled album. It's sandwiched between two pretty great albums, IMO, but it still has some great moments on it, although the B-Sides that were cut would've made the album a bit more spectacular had they replaced them with a couple tracks that made it to the final album.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: King Postwhore on October 26, 2010, 11:51:18 AM
Speaking of 80s Genesis, what do you guys think of Invisible Touch as a whole?


The songs sounded much better live than the studio versions. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: toro on October 26, 2010, 12:30:54 PM
Speaking of 80s Genesis, what do you guys think of Invisible Touch as a whole?


I LOVE IT.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mladen on October 26, 2010, 01:00:34 PM
I've got an odd question - is the post-Hackett era worth listening to?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on October 26, 2010, 01:05:09 PM
Speaking of 80s Genesis, what do you guys think of Invisible Touch as a whole?


Eh.  Its got some good songs, but songs like "in Too Deep," "The Brazillian," "Anything She Does," and "Invisible Touch" can get annoying.  "Land of Confusion" and "Domino" are great.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 26, 2010, 01:49:52 PM
Invisible Touch is the weakest Genesis album of all.  Their debut when they were still in high school was better, and I think my son's third grade band concert CD is even better.  One time I dropped a wrench on the basement floor and it made a clattering sound that was somewhat rhythmic and kinda cool how it alternated between the two notes.  I wish I'd recorded it, because it was actually more musically interesting than Invisible Touch.

I've got an odd question - is the post-Hackett era worth listening to?

...and then there were three... has the sound of a band trying to regain their feet, but there are some good songs.  Overall, it's not great, though.  Duke is much better and is one of my favorite Genesis albums.  After that, it was hit or miss for a while, but IMO they finished strong with We Can't Dance.  There are some gems on that one, though there are some duds as well.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ZBomber on October 26, 2010, 02:26:09 PM
I've got an odd question - is the post-Hackett era worth listening to?

YES

Duke, go listen to it now!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on October 26, 2010, 06:14:15 PM
Strangely, I like most of Invisible Touch despite the very dated production on a lot of it. I actually never owned this record until about 5 years ago.

I have to say that I hated most of it when it came out, but there are some good songs in there. The Brazillian is very underrated.

I like the self-titled album better though.


But then I very much prefer post-Gabriel Genesis by quite a large margin which I'm told could get be banned from the Internets.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sneakyblueberry on October 26, 2010, 08:09:50 PM
I definitely appreciate Collins-era Genesis, but they're a totally different band than earlier Genesis.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: True Death of Life on October 26, 2010, 08:11:55 PM
You can actually see (hear?) the evolution--it's pretty fascinating, really.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on October 26, 2010, 08:50:49 PM
Speaking of 80s Genesis, what do you guys think of Invisible Touch as a whole?


Eh.  Its got some good songs, but songs like "in Too Deep," "The Brazillian," "Anything She Does," and "Invisible Touch" can get annoying.  "Land of Confusion" and "Domino" are great.

As a whole I quite like it. The only song I'm not particularly fond of is Throwing It All Away

Land of Confusion is an amazing song
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ddtonfire on October 26, 2010, 10:39:46 PM
What! The Brazalian was my favorite Genesis song for the longest time!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 27, 2010, 07:33:23 AM
It was cool that they included an instrumental, the first one in a long time.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on October 27, 2010, 07:41:17 AM
Invisible Touch is probably my favourite song of their 80's pop period :(
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on October 27, 2010, 08:06:32 AM
Invisible Touch is the weakest Genesis album of all.  Their debut when they were still in high school was better, and I think my son's third grade band concert CD is even better.  One time I dropped a wrench on the basement floor and it made a clattering sound that was somewhat rhythmic and kinda cool how it alternated between the two notes.  I wish I'd recorded it, because it was actually more musically interesting than Invisible Touch.

Okay, that made me :lol for real.  

You must really hate that album, eh?

Land of Confusion is an amazing song

True that.  I remember when that song came out.  I thought that chorus was the coolest thing ever at the time. :coolio

And like others, I dig "The Brazilian" like crazy, too.  Really, the only song I don't like on IT is "In Too Deep," which is way too wimpy (and not in a good way).  "Throwing It All Away" is pretty average, but I wouldn't say I dislike it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 27, 2010, 11:14:21 AM
I really don't like the fact that one of my favorite bands has an album that I really hate that much, so I'm listening to Invisible Touch again, with an ear towards finding the good, while trying to ignore that which bothers me.  I have every studio album, most of their live albums, and a bunch of boots.  I really do love this band.  But man... what the fuck happened to them later on?

I've gotten through "Land of Confusion" so far.  When I'm done, I will listen through everything a second time, then post a (hopefully) balanced review here.  I'm sure you guys can hardly wait.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on October 27, 2010, 11:15:56 AM
I'm on the edge of my seat.

Nah, I think it's great that you decided to give it another chance. Maybe something will finally click?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ZBomber on October 27, 2010, 11:21:34 AM
I really don't like the fact that one of my favorite bands has an album that I really hate that much, so I'm listening to Invisible Touch again, with an ear towards finding the good, while trying to ignore that which bothers me.  I have every studio album, most of their live albums, and a bunch of boots.  I really do love this band.  But man... what the fuck happened to them later on?

I've gotten through "Land of Confusion" so far.  When I'm done, I will listen through everything a second time, then post a (hopefully) balanced review here.  I'm sure you guys can hardly wait.

Atleast they didn't release "Love Beach"  :lol
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: King Postwhore on October 27, 2010, 11:27:48 AM
I really don't like the fact that one of my favorite bands has an album that I really hate that much, so I'm listening to Invisible Touch again, with an ear towards finding the good, while trying to ignore that which bothers me.  I have every studio album, most of their live albums, and a bunch of boots.  I really do love this band.  But man... what the fuck happened to them later on?

I've gotten through "Land of Confusion" so far.  When I'm done, I will listen through everything a second time, then post a (hopefully) balanced review here.  I'm sure you guys can hardly wait.

I think I'll play it at work.  It's been a long time hearing this album even though I've had it on my I-Pod for a long time.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 27, 2010, 11:32:19 AM
Amazingly, I don't hate Love Beach.  Sure, the cover is LOL silly, but it is what it is, an album of leftovers of leftovers released because Atlantic wanted another ELP album out there and ELP hadn't recorded anything new in a while.  I really like Works, Volume One, and there are some decent tracks on Works, Volume Two: The Leftovers.  But Love Beach was literally scraping the bottom of the barrel.  Still, "Memoirs of an Officer and a Gentlemen" isn't horrible.

Full disclosure: ELP was my favorite band at the time, and Love Beach helped change that.  But it was time to move on anyway.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on October 27, 2010, 04:09:46 PM
Looking forward to your updated review, Orbert. :)

Also, I probably need to get around to rechecking out Duke.  I tried it many years ago, and it didn't do much for me, but a lot of fans seem to really like it, so it might be time to give it a few whirls.  Sadly, it was one I bought and then sold off in one of those "I need to sell the CDs I am not crazy about" moods I was in, so I no longer have it.  Damn it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ZBomber on October 27, 2010, 04:34:56 PM
Looking forward to your updated review, Orbert. :)

Also, I probably need to get around to rechecking out Duke.  I tried it many years ago, and it didn't do much for me, but a lot of fans seem to really like it, so it might be time to give it a few whirls.  Sadly, it was one I bought and then sold off in one of those "I need to sell the CDs I am not crazy about" moods I was in, so I no longer have it.  Damn it.

Its one of my favorite albums from any artist at the moment. I've been listening to it multiples time a day this week  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on October 27, 2010, 05:44:29 PM
Also I don't care what Orbert says; No Reply At All is AWESOME.

DAT BASS

Mike Rutherford may be an inconsistent guitar/bass player, but his good songs are REALLY good
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sneakyblueberry on October 27, 2010, 09:50:51 PM
Also I don't care what Orbert says; No Reply At All is AWESOME.

Pretty much this.  Its a catchy, well constructed slice of poppy doo doo.
Title: Invisible Touch
Post by: Orbert on October 28, 2010, 10:59:53 PM
Okay, I did it.  I listened to Invisible Touch all the way through twice in my car over the past two days.  What follows is a combination of my first impressions upon first hearing the album and listening to it in 1988, and my more recent attempts to understand why people actually like the album today.  In 1988, Genesis were one of my favorite bands due to their progressive albums in the 70's, and also how they'd managed to balance achieving popular appeal with appeasing their prog fanbase throughout the 80's.  Each album was more popular than its predecessor, and though they always kept one foot firmly in prog, the prog:pop ratio was shrinking.

(https://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc800/c848/c84815n2wp5.jpg)

"Invisible Touch" (the album and the song) opens with a snappy, up-tempo hook and the first word out of Phil's mouth is "Well..." and I am already disappointed.  You do not ever begin anything by saying "Well..." and expect people to take you seriously.  The live version of one of Genesis' coolest songs to date, "Turn It On Again," is incredible, nearly perfect.  The one thing, the one note, the one syllable, that keeps the live version from perfection is that Phil inexplicably chooses to weaken the first line by adding "Well..."  

I'm sorry, but the line is "All I need is a TV show" not "Well, all I need is a TV show (shrug)."

"Well, I've been waiting, waiting here so long..."  Right now, Phil might as well be singing "Look, we're a pop band now, so just deal with it, alright?"  What follows is a three-and-a-half-minute pop song about some girl he doesn't even know, but she's reached right in and grabbed ahold of his heart, as though she has some kind of... invisible touch!  Mercifully, the title track is the shortest on the album, and one of the shortest in the Genesis catalogue.  It repeats and fades, because that's what pop songs do, and the last thing you hear is falsetto background voices going "oh-oh-oh!"

Then things turn around with the dark, brooding "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight".  At nearly nine minutes, it is the second-longest track on the album, and features a long instrumental break.  The break itself is quite simple, a repeating rhythmic pattern with understated keyboard vignettes played over them, but it successfully builds up some tension, finally releasing in a vocal bridge, then the song returns for a final verse which feels a bit anticlimactic at that point, but which is pretty much the only way to finish the song.  The song ends with a repeat and fade.  So it's a longish song, but really more an extended "regular" song than anything prog.  But at this point, you'll take it, and overall it is a pretty cool song.

"Land of Confusion" grabs you from the top with its percussion and staccato hook in both the keyboards and guitars, and around this time you realize that everything you've heard sounds really, really good.  This song is their latest venture into social commentary, a new thing for Genesis (if not for Phil) about all the troubles in the world, but it manages to work in a half-tempo break where he held her tight all through the night, because that's what pop songs do.  At least the song has a proper ending.  And what was that hook, anyway, a guitar or a keyboard?

"In Too Deep" slows things down, and gives us another straightforward love song.  He loves her, she knows that, but he's scared.  Bleah.  Again, a great-sounding song, well crafted, and completely void of substance.  Nice keyboard patches.  A lot of 80's keyboards sound dated today; I think most of Tony Banks' sounds manage to avoid that.

"Anything She Does" opens Side Two the same way the title track opened Side One, with an uptempo hook and poppy electronic beat, then ups the ante by suddenly modulating up a step just as the vocals come in.  It's another short, poppy love song, well written, perfectly produced, and meaningless.  It doesn't really end so much as it simply stops, as though Hugh Padgham or some other objective party on the other side of the glass had the good sense to pull the plug.

Then, as with Side One, we go from the catchy opener to a longish tune.  "Domino" is the longest track on the album and is a suite of two songs, "Part 1 - In the Glow of the Night" and "Part 2 - The Last Domino".  With a couple of tempo changes and mood shifts, and a somewhat dark feel, it is the closest thing to prog on the album.  In 22 years, I've never figured out what the words are about, but at least they don't seem to be about some girl he loves but is currently having trouble relating to.

"Throwing It All Away" is another nice-sounding love song.  Honestly, there are only so many things that can be said about the love songs on this album.  There are four of them altogther, half the album by number.  They all sound nice, but don't exactly have much depth to them.  Phil's atypical harmonies make their only appearance on the album, during the verse rather than the chorus, which is an interesting choice.

"The Brazillian" finishes the album.  It's an instrumental, their first since "Duke's Travels" and first standalone instrumental since "After the Ordeal" well over a decade earlier.  This piece sounded a lot better cranked out in my car than I remember it sounding on our crummy stereo in 1988.  It was quite a revelation, hearing a number of little licks throughout that I never heard (or at least never noticed) before.  My opinion of this piece is a bit higher now than it used to be.  Still, it takes a while to get its refrain, and then can't seem to step away from it.

Closing Remarks

If I had to guess, I would say that this is Genesis' most popular album.  Every song is in straight 4/4 time.  Four of its eight songs are standard love songs.  Five of its eight songs received radio play that I know of.  Six of the eight songs are in standard verse-verse-break-verse format.  Even the two longer tracks aren't really very prog.  "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight" never wavers in mood or tempo, and is really just a long pop song; and "Domino" has some changes, but no real instrumental acrobatics to speak of.  There are almost no solos in any songs.

It's not that "prog = good" and "pop = bad."  It's that popular songs by definition have much wider appeal, and that generally means taking fewer risks, sticking to a formula.  Just look at the structure of the songs, even the structure of the album itself in terms of song order and arrangement.  Genesis insist that it was always their goal to become a popular band; they just didn't figure out how for a while.  As the band shrunk and their sound streamlined, it seems the immense talent still in the band became concentrated, and they cranked out some good solid pop.

I do understand why people like this album.  It sounds fantastic.  The songs are brilliantly crafted, and the playing is superb.  Banks, Rutherford, and Collins are excellent musicians and songwriters, so when they put their minds to creating popular music, they succeed, and it's really good popular music.  It may be cynical, but I believe that "The Brazilian" was included as an attempt to please the disenchanted prog fans, but placed last to allow the hordes of pop fans the option of skipping it.

Overall, I still can't say I like this album.  I tend not to like things that are specifically and obviously created to appeal to me.  I'm aware of the manipulation and resent it, causing me to dislike it even as I determine that it's very good.  And this is a good album; this is actually a great album.  But it's literally painful for me to listen to, because I know what these guys are capable of.  I saw them live, playing incredible, complex pieces of music in real time.  Mike is an incredible bassist and underrated guitarist; Tony is known for his lightning-fast 16th-note runs and complex chord shifts and key changes; Phil used to play jazzfusion with Brand X.  And here they are, playing pop songs in 4/4 time.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on October 28, 2010, 11:11:59 PM
Interesting review.  Heh.  Props for giving it a few more chances.  I see what you mean about the band being much more capable of what they showed on this album, but for what it is - a pop rock record - it is good.  I can't say it is as good as most of their albums in the 70s, or even the self-titled record, which is the closest thing to it from a stylistic standpoint, but I still like it.  "Land of Confusion" will always be a nostalgic favorite, "The Brazilian" is awesome to hurt up really loud, and I was always greatly amused by the video for the title track, where Phil Collins pretty much acted like a big goofball.

Say what you want about Collins and the pop fluff he has done over the years, but for a serious musician with great chops, he managed to take advantage of the 80s video era by being one of the more entertaining musicians in videos (along with David Lee Roth).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on October 31, 2010, 11:51:37 PM
Amazingly, I don't hate Love Beach.  Sure, the cover is LOL silly, but it is what it is, an album of leftovers of leftovers released because Atlantic wanted another ELP album out there and ELP hadn't recorded anything new in a while.  I really like Works, Volume One, and there are some decent tracks on Works, Volume Two: The Leftovers.  But Love Beach was literally scraping the bottom of the barrel.  Still, "Memoirs of an Officer and a Gentlemen" isn't horrible.

Full disclosure: ELP was my favorite band at the time, and Love Beach helped change that.  But it was time to move on anyway.

This should probably go in an ELP thread, but Love Beach is a masterpiece when compared with In The Hot Seat. The album cover adds much to its legendary status, but In The Hot Seat is so bad that nobody even bothers to talk about it.

If pressed, I would probably have to say that I prefer ELP over Yes and Genesis even to this day.

I also have to say that Duke and Abacab are likely my two favorite studio albums (Seconds Out and Three Sides Live are my favorite live albums).


As far as Invisible Touch goes, I refused to own it for many of the reason Orbert mentioned in his fine review. In time though, despite the obviously dated production, it holds up a better than a lot of the music that came from that period. While I don't consider it a Genesis favorite by any means (It's better than what came after in 1992...I can't for the life of me remember it as I don't own it. I'd put Calling All Stations ahead of it too probably)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 01, 2010, 08:02:26 AM
I held off buying We Can't Dance for a while, because Invisible Touch was so bad.  I remember standing in a record store looking at it, and on the back cover were listed 12 songs, and to me that meant another batch of short, radio-friendly tunes.  I eventually picked it up, because I had every Genesis album to date; how could I not complete my collection?

I was pleasantly surprised when I finally listened to it.  I'd forgotten the "CD factor" - that 12 songs meant an average song length of 6 minutes, not four, so factor in the radio-friendly garbage, and there were a couple of good album tracks buried in there.  Yeah, it's got a bunch of those annoying, poppy songs, but at least they broke out a bit.  "Driving the Last Spike" was their last great story-song, the history of British Rail.  "Dreaming While You Sleep" is understandably disliked by many, but I think it's brilliant.  A study in guilt and human nature, something that could happen to anyone, and if you don't think it could happen to you, just hope you're never in a position to find out what you would do in that situation.  And "Fading Lights" despite its straightforward structure at least gives us a longer track with an extended instrumental break, and it's a beautiful song, a great closer.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 01, 2010, 08:16:14 AM
I held off getting We Can't Dance for a long time, too, basically because "I Can't Dance" is one of the biggest piece of shit songs ever created, but "Driving the Last Spike" and "Fading Lights" more than made the eventual purchase worthwhile. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: King Postwhore on November 01, 2010, 08:23:10 AM
Driving The Last Spike itself makes it worth buying.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on November 01, 2010, 08:24:19 AM
No Son Of Mine is pretty awesome too (albeit a poppy song). I get goosebumps when that chorus comes.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: LieLowTheWantedMan on November 01, 2010, 08:28:09 AM
Meh. I'm not a Collins-era fan at all. Almost all pop doesn't appeal to me for some reason.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on November 01, 2010, 12:21:52 PM
Meh. I'm not a Collins-era fan at all. Almost all pop doesn't appeal to me for some reason.

It's not all 'pop'.

In fact quite a bit of it is prog infused
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ZBomber on November 01, 2010, 12:53:01 PM
Meh. I'm not a Collins-era fan at all. Almost all pop doesn't appeal to me for some reason.

DUKE.

DUKE.


LISTEN TO DUKE.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mladen on November 01, 2010, 01:04:35 PM
I need to give the chance to later albums, especially Duke. I read some great reviews about it...
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: toro on November 01, 2010, 01:26:03 PM
Meh. I'm not a Collins-era fan at all. Almost all pop doesn't appeal to me for some reason.
It's funny how most of the songs sound nothing like pop.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on November 02, 2010, 05:13:51 PM
I held off buying We Can't Dance for a while, because Invisible Touch was so bad.  I remember standing in a record store looking at it, and on the back cover were listed 12 songs, and to me that meant another batch of short, radio-friendly tunes.  I eventually picked it up, because I had every Genesis album to date; how could I not complete my collection?

I was pleasantly surprised when I finally listened to it.  I'd forgotten the "CD factor" - that 12 songs meant an average song length of 6 minutes, not four, so factor in the radio-friendly garbage, and there were a couple of good album tracks buried in there.  Yeah, it's got a bunch of those annoying, poppy songs, but at least they broke out a bit.  "Driving the Last Spike" was their last great story-song, the history of British Rail.  "Dreaming While You Sleep" is understandably disliked by many, but I think it's brilliant.  A study in guilt and human nature, something that could happen to anyone, and if you don't think it could happen to you, just hope you're never in a position to find out what you would do in that situation.  And "Fading Lights" despite its straightforward structure at least gives us a longer track with an extended instrumental break, and it's a beautiful song, a great closer.

I've still held off.  At the time, I thought that the self-titled album was the last Genesis album I would ever enjoy and a lot of the time that still holds true, but there are times that I can enjoy what came after. I seem to have more tolerance for both Invisible Touch and We Can't Dance because a lot of the music that was released during that time just doesn't hold up.

 I've got "Fading Lights" on Live: The Way We Walk Volume 2 The Longs and it's definately a highlight. and I've always thought "Driving The Last Spike" was pretty good when I heard it.

Again, it seems to be something that seems to have held up over time and I suppose I'll look into getting it at some point.

Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: LieLowTheWantedMan on November 02, 2010, 08:44:58 PM
Meh. I'm not a Collins-era fan at all. Almost all pop doesn't appeal to me for some reason.

DUKE.

DUKE.


LISTEN TO DUKE.
Have before. It's okay.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: LieLowTheWantedMan on November 02, 2010, 08:45:49 PM
Meh. I'm not a Collins-era fan at all. Almost all pop doesn't appeal to me for some reason.
It's funny how most of the songs sound nothing like pop.
Most of it does to me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: toro on November 02, 2010, 09:12:55 PM
Meh. I'm not a Collins-era fan at all. Almost all pop doesn't appeal to me for some reason.
It's funny how most of the songs sound nothing like pop.
Most of it does to me.
Beside the singles, no, not really.
Edit: I mean, I can see your point, but It just doesn't strtike me as pop, it's quite different I still find Phil Collins era progressive at least ala "The Alan Parsons Project".
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ZBomber on November 02, 2010, 09:17:24 PM
Meh. I'm not a Collins-era fan at all. Almost all pop doesn't appeal to me for some reason.

DUKE.

DUKE.


LISTEN TO DUKE.
Have before. It's okay.

Listen to it again with an open mind. Some beautiful compositions on that record, and you shouldn't be missing out on it just because its not a Gabriel led album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on November 02, 2010, 09:18:59 PM
Meh. I'm not a Collins-era fan at all. Almost all pop doesn't appeal to me for some reason.

DUKE.

DUKE.


LISTEN TO DUKE.
Have before. It's okay.

Listen to it again with an open mind. Some beautiful compositions on that record, and you shouldn't be missing out on it just because its not a Gabriel led album.

If you can get past the fact that half the songs are Phils depressive 'omg i was just divorced' songs, then it's a fantastic record
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 02, 2010, 10:23:51 PM
Two of the twelve tracks hardly equals half the songs.  "Misunderstanding" is depressing, plus it got overplayed on the radio, but I actually like "Please Don't Ask".  Anyone who's been through a divorce or just a bad breakup would be able to relate to it.  (I've actually been through neither, but I find the perspective of the protagonist to be realistic and kinda cool.)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ZBomber on November 02, 2010, 10:33:11 PM
Two of the twelve tracks hardly equals half the songs.  "Misunderstanding" is depressing, plus it got overplayed on the radio, but I actually like "Please Don't Ask".  Anyone who's been through a divorce or just a bad breakup would be able to relate to it.  (I've actually been through neither, but I find the perspective of the protagonist to be realistic and kinda cool.)

Personally, I love the depressing atmosphere of the record. Sad music is typically my favorite type of music, because even when I can't directly relate to the subject matter, I can atleast appreciate where that person is coming from.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 02, 2010, 11:01:49 PM
Duke, the story, is a sad story.  A story of loss and alienation.  Add to that a couple of depressing songs from Phil, one from Mike and another from Tony, and it's a pretty downbeat album altogether.  Even "Man of Our Times" and "Cul-De-Sac" are downers, aren't they?

Incredibly, I've never actually thought about that before.  It's one of my favorite Genesis albums if not the favorite, and I guess I've always thought of it as upbeat because of the fanfare in C that opens the album, and its reprise at the end.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Quadrochosis on November 03, 2010, 07:08:24 AM
Holy shit, that just blew my mind, it is a sad album isn't it?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 03, 2010, 08:14:02 AM
Yeah, that was a bit of a shocker.  Been listening to it for 30 years (it was the first CD I bought) and never thought about how sad it all is.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: LieLowTheWantedMan on November 03, 2010, 08:46:39 AM
Meh. I'm not a Collins-era fan at all. Almost all pop doesn't appeal to me for some reason.

DUKE.

DUKE.


LISTEN TO DUKE.
Have before. It's okay.

Listen to it again with an open mind. Some beautiful compositions on that record, and you shouldn't be missing out on it just because its not a Gabriel led album.
I did listen to it with an open mind. As I said, it's okay. Which means 3 out of 5 for me.

BTW, I do love A Trick Of The Tail and Wind and Wuthering.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on November 03, 2010, 10:27:06 AM
The Duke suite is fantastic. And anyone who says that Collins era Genesis is all pop needs to listen to this record.

And I know I've said this so many times already, but Turn It On Again is one of the best short songs ever written
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on November 03, 2010, 11:43:38 AM
It was always a bummer that Collins' default lyrics were about cheesy breakup topics. There's way too many of them on Genesis and his solo albums.

rumborak
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on November 03, 2010, 11:45:33 AM
BTW, I don't know how many people have listened to those, but his early solo albums are very cool, and edgy. Face Value is a great album, and Hello I Must Be Going too.
I love this tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v31b8em5_VM

rumborak
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 03, 2010, 02:47:03 PM
True.  Phil's first two solo albums were great.  I picked up No Jacket Required as well, and could already feel things starting to turn, so I stopped with the solo Phil.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ZBomber on November 03, 2010, 09:27:43 PM
I still haven't listened to Phil's solo albums/ I really wanna check them out but theres just so much music out there that it always gets pushed to the back.  :lol
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: tri.ad on December 12, 2010, 10:46:50 AM
Just chiming in to say that Fading Lights is an amazing song and definitely one of their best album closers. I really, really love Tony Banks's long keyboard solos (not just in this song).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on December 12, 2010, 10:58:22 AM
Just chiming in to say that Fading Lights is an amazing song and definitely one of their best album closers. I really, really love Tony Banks's long keyboard solos (not just in this song).

LOVE this song, and the live version on The Way We Walk is even better! Just Tony, Mike and Phil jamming away at their last long-form song, and I agree, Tony's solo on this song is amazing, one of his best during the band's last decade together.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ddtonfire on December 12, 2010, 11:17:38 AM
I love all of Phil Collins's solo albums. They're pop, but pop written by very capable musicians and have an awesome sound.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: toro on December 13, 2010, 10:59:20 AM
If you Don't like We Can't Dance we are NOT A MATCH.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 13, 2010, 09:12:23 PM
True.  Phil's first two solo albums were great.  I picked up No Jacket Required as well, and could already feel things starting to turn, so I stopped with the solo Phil.

That was pretty much my experience. Living through that I have revised my opinion of Genesis beginning with the Invisible years, but have not changed my opinion about Phil after those first few albums.

I do have a soft spot for his Big Band album and might like his Motown album should I be in a position to hear it one day.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 13, 2010, 09:26:15 PM
A Hot Night in Paris is a kickass album!  :tup

Probably my favorite after the first two solo albums.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: tri.ad on December 13, 2010, 11:56:34 PM
Regarding Phil's solo albums, I enjoy the stuff that sounds a bit like Genesis and also the rockier songs. Not a fan of the Motown stuff, though.

Also, ...But Seriously has some pretty underrated tunes imo.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: carl320 on May 05, 2011, 12:01:39 PM
Bump

I was just thinking about this a few days ago.  What would the seminal album by Genesis be?  Everyone talks about Close to the Edge being Yes' landmark album.  I would guess Foxtrot would be Genesis', just because of Supper's Ready.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on May 05, 2011, 12:05:18 PM
I would say Selling England By The Pound - it has Firth Of Fifth, The Cinema Show, and their first charting single I Know What I Like.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Quadrochosis on May 05, 2011, 12:06:12 PM
I'd agree with Zydar, although my personal favorite Genesis album is The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: King Postwhore on May 05, 2011, 12:10:25 PM
Zy, ever hear the version of I Know What I Like by GTR?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on May 05, 2011, 12:12:06 PM
Zy, ever hear the version of I Know What I Like by GTR?

No I haven't. Is it good?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: King Postwhore on May 05, 2011, 12:46:24 PM
Zy, ever hear the version of I Know What I Like by GTR?

No I haven't. Is it good?

Not bad.

Here's a link for samples of that live CD.

https://www.amazon.com/King-Biscuit-Flower-Hour-Presents/dp/B000005EJ2
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: LieLowTheWantedMan on May 05, 2011, 02:38:23 PM
I'd say Foxtrot for sure. Selling England I guess too, but it's by far my least favourite PG era album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Nekov on May 05, 2011, 05:49:18 PM
My personal favorite is Selling England by the Pound but I have heard a lot of people saying The Lamb... is their best. Foxtrot is also a great album. I think those would be the top 3. Just put them in the order you prefer
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Frosthawk on May 08, 2011, 12:02:27 AM
Foxtrot probably edges out as my favorite, then Nursery Cryme, then Selling England, then probably Wind & Wuthering. There's at least SOMETHING I like on each album though. I have been a fan of this band for as long as I can remember - when I was 6/7, their Live at Wembley Stadium concert was my favorite thing ever.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: JayOctavarium on May 18, 2012, 02:32:25 AM
:bump:

So... someone wanna recommend me a couple Genesis albums? At least one Peter Gabriel led album and one Phil Collins led album... finally breaking down to check them out but I dont know where to start...
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on May 18, 2012, 02:35:23 AM
Peter Gabriel era: Selling England By The Pound, Foxtrot
Phil Collins era: Duke, A Trick Of The Tail

You won't regret it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: JayOctavarium on May 18, 2012, 02:46:51 AM
Peter Gabriel era: Selling England By The Pound, Foxtrot
Phil Collins era: Duke, A Trick Of The Tail

You won't regret it.

Awesome! I'll check them out!

It's funny.. I have been wanting to expand my horizons with some of the older prog bands out there (Genesis, King Crimson, Yes...)... the biggest problem was unlike the other two... I know nothing of Genesis's material. I'll report back when I can :D
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Eldomm on May 18, 2012, 03:28:45 AM
Gabriel: Foxtrot
Collins: Duke
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Phoenix87x on May 18, 2012, 04:24:10 AM
:bump:

So... someone wanna recommend me a couple Genesis albums? At least one Peter Gabriel led album and one Phil Collins led album... finally breaking down to check them out but I dont know where to start...

Peter Gabriel- Foxtrot  (but give it 2-3 listens for it all to sink in. There's a lot to digest)
Collins- A trick of the tail (this is the album that got me into genesis)

   I never thought I would have liked Genesis, but they have since become one of my favorite bands.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: tedesco23 on May 18, 2012, 07:43:48 AM
I know there's a lot of love for Duke here, but to my ears, there's a major shift in sound when Hackett leaves the band after Wind & Wuthering. Duke was the first post-Gabriel album I had picked up, and it really soured me on the post-Gabriel era until I picked up Trick of the Tail, which (IMO) just blows Duke out of the water.

So, my recommendations would be:

Gabriel: Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound
post-Gabriel: Trick of the Tail, Wind & Wuthering

And *make sure* you get the 2008 remasters. They sound amazing.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 18, 2012, 08:07:13 AM
There's no question that the structure of things changed when they lost Hackett.  Instead of keyboards and guitars on an equal footing in both the writing and playing, we suddenly had the keyboardist doing the majority of the writing, and a bass player who could play some guitar and could also write some songs.  And Phil Collins, who stepped up his writing contributions as well.

But Duke has a lot of great music IMO.  Rutherford always did play guitar in the band, and he has some great moments.  Mostly colorful little licks and fills, but very tasty.  They became more of a keyboard-driven band for sure, but that doesn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that they just needed more variety in the writing itself.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 18, 2012, 09:00:06 AM
PG era: Selling England by the Pound and/or The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
PC era: A Trick of the Tail and/or Wind & Wuthering
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Jaq on May 18, 2012, 10:04:07 AM
Bump

I was just thinking about this a few days ago.  What would the seminal album by Genesis be?  Everyone talks about Close to the Edge being Yes' landmark album.  I would guess Foxtrot would be Genesis', just because of Supper's Ready.

For the Gabriel era, it's definitely Foxtrot. Really the album where Genesis well and truly became Genesis, at least for that line up. Spotting a seminal album for the Collins era is a bit harder...the best of the prog era Collins stuff is IMO Wind and Wuthering, while the more pop era is hard to pinpoint. Put a gun to my head, I'd say Invisible Touch, because the pop and the prog is pretty well balanced. A lot of people probably forgot because it was in a beer commercial that Tonight Tonight Tonight is nearly nine minutes long, and the second side had a 10 minute track AND an instrumental. And the pop tracks on Invisible Touch are magnificent. It wins the landmark battle for me, though, because it was the album where Genesis moved from "successful rock band" to "really fucking HUGE rock band." Hard to overlook that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 18, 2012, 10:20:20 AM
Damn, Jaq, I've been listening to Genesis for 35 years and pretty much agree with everything you just said.

Personally, Invisible Touch is my least favorite Genesis album after the debut, but that's mostly because the pop tracks were all overplayed on the radio and I really don't like any of them, and the "prog" tracks are too obviously (1) a regular song padded out by an extended middle jam which is your typical Banks series of vignettes and (2) two shorter songs glued together.  Even the instrumental is a typical Genesis instrumental; that is, a theme-and-variations thing, not a "real" instrumental in the sense that it actually goes anywhere.

But honestly, for all that, what you said about the album is true, and it is widely regarded as their best latter-day album.  It's certainly not their fault that I don't really like it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Ryzee on May 18, 2012, 10:25:05 AM
My favorite PG era album is Lamb, my favorite PC era album is Duke.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: darkshade on May 18, 2012, 10:42:33 AM
My favorite albums by Genesis were always Selling England By The Pound, and A Trick of the Tail. But everything from Trespass thru W&W are glorious.

Agh, listening to Transatlantic's cover of Giant Hogweed makes me want to get back into this band. It's been so long.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: yeshaberto on May 18, 2012, 10:49:40 AM
OK!  I can take a hint.
picking up Duke right now
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Jaq on May 18, 2012, 02:15:36 PM
Damn, Jaq, I've been listening to Genesis for 35 years and pretty much agree with everything you just said.

Personally, Invisible Touch is my least favorite Genesis album after the debut, but that's mostly because the pop tracks were all overplayed on the radio and I really don't like any of them, and the "prog" tracks are too obviously (1) a regular song padded out by an extended middle jam which is your typical Banks series of vignettes and (2) two shorter songs glued together.  Even the instrumental is a typical Genesis instrumental; that is, a theme-and-variations thing, not a "real" instrumental in the sense that it actually goes anywhere.

But honestly, for all that, what you said about the album is true, and it is widely regarded as their best latter-day album.  It's certainly not their fault that I don't really like it.

This post made me realize I've been listening to Genesis for thirty one years. OUCH.  :lol
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on May 19, 2012, 07:55:10 AM
I brought up Phil Collins on Spotify the other day. Man, his early solo albums are really good. I really don't know what happened to the guy. All he seemed interested in after some point in the 90s was seemingly love songs.

rumborak
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on May 27, 2012, 12:06:54 PM
So, just as an update on my Survivor - we just finished with DUKE and are now moving on with ABACAB, as we enter into the band's last 5 albums. If you're a fan of this period, I implore you to come over to the Polls/Survivors forum and come vote!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on June 03, 2012, 11:22:19 AM
Just started the Survivor for the band's self-titled 12th album, so if there's any fans of that album, come join in the fun!

Also, I just wanted to bring up how horrible "Illegal Alien" is, and that I hope it goes away in this first round! The rest of the album is better than that one song, and in fact, I would almost take "Who Dunnit?" over "Illegal Alien"....almost... it would be effective torture if someone played those two songs over and over again whilst tied down and forced to listen for hours.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on June 03, 2012, 11:24:45 AM
I must be the only person in the universe who actually likes Illegal Alien. It's catchy and fun. Oh well.

(https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3xdunZ2BG1qjwhroo1_250.jpg)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Pols Voice on June 03, 2012, 11:34:33 AM
It isn't that bad.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on June 03, 2012, 05:19:52 PM
I must be the only person in the universe who actually likes Illegal Alien. It's catchy and fun. Oh well.

(https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3xdunZ2BG1qjwhroo1_250.jpg)

No, you're not. I like it quite a bit myself. The video is pretty cool too.



Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on June 03, 2012, 08:01:41 PM
Yep, Illegal Alien is a good tune, and the video always cracked me up.  The hate it gets from the diehard Genesis prog heads is laughable.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on June 03, 2012, 08:14:52 PM
Yep, Illegal Alien is a good tune, and the video always cracked me up.  The hate it gets from the diehard Genesis prog heads is laughable.

I don't really "hate" it, I just feel like it's my least favorite song on the album, and that every other song on Genesis is at least as good, if not better (or a whole lot better).

And I wouldn't call myself a "diehard Genesis prog head" - I enjoy their last 5 albums quite a bit, no matter how proggy the songs are.

I will admit, though, "Illegal Alien" sure is damn catchy.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on June 04, 2012, 03:41:05 AM
Actually I like Illegal Alien a lot. It is a litte catchy and funny tune.

It puts a smile on my face everytime I hear it, partly because when I heard it first, with my limited knowledge of the english language at the age of fourteen, I was wondering why Phil Collins sang about ugly extraterrestrial beings that have acid for blood.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on June 04, 2012, 11:05:33 PM
Who needs drugs when you've got live Duke........seriously.



Two days ago it was all about Bruford and 1976

Sometimes I think the best thing Gabriel ever did was leave and pursue a solo career.





Gabriel and post-Gabriel Genesis> Gabriel Genesis
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: skydivingninja on June 05, 2012, 07:34:44 AM
Sometimes I think the best thing Gabriel ever did was leave and pursue a solo career.


It was. 

Am I the only one who prefers Foxtrot to Selling England?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Phoenix87x on June 05, 2012, 07:51:48 AM
Sometimes I think the best thing Gabriel ever did was leave and pursue a solo career.


It was. 

Am I the only one who prefers Foxtrot to Selling England?

   I also prefer Foxtrot over Selling England by the pound.

I get way more mileage out of Foxtrot and I really do not like The battle of Epping Forest that much.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on June 05, 2012, 11:33:24 AM
I love "Firth of Fifth" and apparently I'm about the only person who likes "More Fool Me" but that's about it from Selling England by the Pound for me.  "The Cinema Show" is a great song, but having grown up with the Seconds Out version, I'm always disappointed when they get to the end and it fizzles down into the segue/reprise rather than building up to that amazing coda.

Foxtrot, meanwhile, is awesome and consistent all the way through.  I like every song on Foxtrot.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Phoenix87x on June 05, 2012, 12:01:38 PM
I love "Firth of Fifth" and apparently I'm about the only person who likes "More Fool Me" but that's about it from Selling England by the Pound for me.  "The Cinema Show" is a great song, but having grown up with the Seconds Out version, I'm always disappointed when they get to the end and it fizzles down into the segue/reprise rather than building up to that amazing coda.

Foxtrot, meanwhile, is awesome and consistent all the way through.  I like every song on Foxtrot.

   More Fool Me is not only my favorite song on the album, but its my 2nd favorite Genesis song of all time right behind Entangled.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on June 05, 2012, 12:02:55 PM
I also love More Fool Me. In fact, I love just about everything about Selling England.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on June 05, 2012, 12:09:48 PM
Ah, I feel vindicated or something.

I've always liked it, and it wasn't until years later that it occurred to me that it was Phil singing lead while Peter was still in the band.  For a while after taking over lead vocals, Phil still had that beautiful, sweet voice, and I was so used to it that I didn't even think about the fact that I was hearing it on a Gabriel-era song.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Pols Voice on June 05, 2012, 12:37:38 PM
I like Foxtrot more than Selling England.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Metro on June 05, 2012, 02:57:24 PM
I like Foxtrot more than Selling England.

I love you.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Phoenix87x on June 05, 2012, 03:12:24 PM
I like Foxtrot more than Selling England.

I love you.

Me too  :heart
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on June 06, 2012, 09:59:22 PM
It doesn't get much more epic than The Cinema Show live. Can't really get into the studio version much at all.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on June 06, 2012, 11:18:02 PM
The one thing I love about the original studio version is where the synths break into harmony when they go into E major towards the end of the instrumental.  It's hard to describe, but it's where they go into E for the last time, after the sixteenth-note arpeggios in D, then they stay in E for the segue/reprise "Aisle of Plenty".  On the Seconds Out version, Tony plays that line without the harmony, and I think it's lacking something.  When he does it during the medley on the Three Sides Live version, he does it in harmony, as on the studio version.  Even though I don't really like how they chopped it up for the medley, it was cool to hear the harmony again in a live setting.

That's really about it, besides Peter's tooting around on the flute during the first break.  It's not much, but it's kinda cool.  I always liked it when he broke out the flute, because the flute is one of the first instruments I learned to play.

Yeah, I'm a music geek.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: wkiml on June 07, 2012, 12:01:10 PM
Saw the medley live on the tour they taped 3 sides live
from that day on I was a huge fan didn't really know the earlier stuff of than Lamb (my first exposure to them was "than there was three" )
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ddtonfire on June 07, 2012, 02:47:56 PM
Phil's groove in Cinema Show right before and during Tony's solo (and that part too) is my favorite 7/8 moment in music.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on June 07, 2012, 03:28:34 PM

Yeah, I'm a music geek.

I think we're all guilty of that around here.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on June 07, 2012, 04:50:15 PM
:tup
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Jaq on June 21, 2012, 12:21:50 PM
Bringing back this thread to just say something that's happened to me since I recently started listening to older Genesis again for the first time in years.

Why'd it take me so fucking long to realize how brilliant The Knife is? I guess in my youth I dismissed the first two albums because Hackett and Collins weren't on them, but JESUS The Knife is really good. Like it's made my top ten of Genesis songs, no joke. Those organ lines, the fantastic guitar work, one of Gabriel's best vocal performances-wow. Really need to get the Gabriel era live album again, because I can't imagine that this song with Collins and Hackett on it isn't anything short of brilliant/

/fanboy.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on June 21, 2012, 01:03:04 PM
"The Knife" is definitely one of the highlights from the original lineup.  It's like Trespass is almost all mellow, then they totally cut loose with "The Knife".

And yeah, that first Genesis Live is awesome.  My understanding is that there's an "expanded" version available with "Supper's Ready" on it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Jaq on June 21, 2012, 02:56:59 PM
I had heard that the version of Supper's Ready recorded that night-Genesis Live was originally a King Biscuit Flower Hour show, if memory serves-has turned up on a live Genesis box set with the other songs from Genesis Live, but I'd kill for that album with Supper's Ready. I used to have it on vinyl, but silly me, I sold my collection.

(edit): Just found the Genesis Live version of The Knife on Youtube. Man, Phil KILLS it-he's doing single bass work that's better than some people do with double. Yeah I need to get this on CD.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SomeoneLikeHim on July 03, 2012, 02:18:35 PM
Has anyone her seen the genesis tribute band "The Musical Box"? They are absolutely amazing. I saw them in february on their Lamb Tour and it was magical. They replicate everything from the original shows, from setlists to scene clothes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gRiUn0Bwyc&feature=related

Also, top 5 albums:

1. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
2. Selling England by the Pound
3. Foxtrot
4. Nursery Cryme
5. Wind and Wuthering
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on July 29, 2012, 08:43:36 PM
Just so you guys know, I've started the Consolation Rounds on my Genesis Survivor, so if you jumped ship after We Can't Dance or the Gabriel-Era albums, I'd like to invite you to come back and vote again! After the 16-song Consolation Survivor, there will be the 40-song Finals!!!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mosh on July 31, 2012, 08:29:08 PM
Phil's groove in Cinema Show right before and during Tony's solo (and that part too) is my favorite 7/8 moment in music.
Oh yea I love that bit.

Might be a controversial opinion, but I love Selling England, it is my favorite Genesis album. It was my intro to Gabriel era Genesis and it just blew me away. The way it flows as a whole is so unique to me, none of the other albums give me the same feeling. Firth of Fifth has an amazing instrumental section, the way the guitar reprises the themes played by the flute... :hefdaddy And I'm a sucker for Gabriel's flute playing.

Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on July 31, 2012, 10:11:22 PM


Might be a controversial opinion, but I love Selling England, it is my favorite Genesis album. It was my intro to Gabriel era Genesis and it just blew me away. The way it flows as a whole is so unique to me, none of the other albums give me the same feeling. Firth of Fifth has an amazing instrumental section, the way the guitar reprises the themes played by the flute... :hefdaddy And I'm a sucker for Gabriel's flute playing.

That is not controversial at all, as it seems like most hardcore Genesis fans consider that one of their best albums, with many of those considering it THE best album the band ever did.  So, no, not controversial at all. :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on July 31, 2012, 11:10:09 PM
I love Selling England too, it's my favourite Genesis album and a Top 10 album overall for me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Unlegit on July 31, 2012, 11:12:42 PM
My ranking:

15. Calling All Stations
14. From Genesis to Revelation
13. We Can't Dance
12. Abacab
11. Genesis
10. Invisible Touch
9. ...And Then There Were Three...
8. Trespass
7. Wind & Wuthering
6. Duke
5. Nursery Cryme
4. Foxtrot
3. A Trick of the Tail
2. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
1. Selling England by the Pound

1-4 are 5 star albums. 5-9 are 4. 10-12 are 3. The rest are 2.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mosh on July 31, 2012, 11:14:02 PM


Might be a controversial opinion, but I love Selling England, it is my favorite Genesis album. It was my intro to Gabriel era Genesis and it just blew me away. The way it flows as a whole is so unique to me, none of the other albums give me the same feeling. Firth of Fifth has an amazing instrumental section, the way the guitar reprises the themes played by the flute... :hefdaddy And I'm a sucker for Gabriel's flute playing.

That is not controversial at all, as it seems like most hardcore Genesis fans consider that one of their best albums, with many of those considering it THE best album the band ever did.  So, no, not controversial at all. :)
Ah nevermind then, for some reason I got the idea it was considered a lesser album compared to other Gabriel stuff.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on August 01, 2012, 08:19:33 AM
It does get overlooked sometimes.  Nursery Cryme was the first album with Phil Collins and Steve Hackett, and many consider it the first "real" Genesis album (which is a bit unfair to Trespass, but whatever).  Foxtrot has the epic "Supper's Ready", and of course The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway is their biggie, the double LP concept album.  Selling England by the Pound is somewhat overshadowed because each of the others has something to distinguish it, while SEBTP is "just a regular album".  But it has some great songs on it and does have great flow.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Pols Voice on August 01, 2012, 02:29:06 PM
Huh, I've always thought SEBTP was widely considered their best. Not by me though. Trick of the Tail and Foxtrot are my faves.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Jaq on August 01, 2012, 07:44:49 PM
Selling England is great, but yeah, it comes between Foxtrot, which is widely considered to be their early masterpiece, and Lamb, which is the big double album statement from Genesis, so it tends to be both overlooked and overshadowed both. When this thread prompted me to go back and re-listen to Gabriel era Genesis for the first time in a while, I found I actually prefer Selling England to Lamb these days. A whole lot of classics on it, and these days, to be honest, Lamb kind of bores me. Which might be sacrilege to admit, but there you have it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on August 01, 2012, 09:09:28 PM
I feel the same way.  I have to be in the mood for The Lamb.  That is, I have to feel like indulging in the whole thing, because it's greater than the sum of the parts.  There is a certain awesomeness to the whole thing, but it's also a bunch of cool songs with a bunch of weird and/or lesser songs in between.  So to me, there's not much point in subjecting myself to the short, weird songs if I'm not in for the whole thing.

Selling England is stronger overall, but I still find the first song from each side (yes, I still think in terms of album sides) to have a lot of filler.  Fortunately, both CD players and iPods have a Skip button. :lol

I actually prefer both Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot to either of the other two.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on August 02, 2012, 12:42:32 AM
My Top 10 ranking:

1. Selling England By The Pound
2. Foxtrot
3. Nursery Cryme
4. The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
5. A Trick Of The Tail
6. Trespass
7. Wind And Wuthering
8. Duke
9. We Can't Dance
10. Genesis

Needless to say I prefer the Gabriel era. But the Collins stuff had some great songs too.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: adace on August 02, 2012, 12:47:51 AM
I listened to And Then There Were Three for the first time a few days ago. Really underrated album. Tony's keyboard work is phenomenal.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Pols Voice on August 02, 2012, 01:18:48 AM
Burning Rope is the only song on ATTWT that really stands out for me. Most of the album is pleasant enough, but it has a really transitional feel. They found their footing again with Duke.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on August 02, 2012, 07:41:56 AM
Tony really stepped up on ATTWT, as I'm sure there was a feeling that he had to, due to them losing their regular guitarist.  Yeah, it feels a bit transitional, but I like Mike's guitar work, which is (not surprisingly) often reminiscent of Steve's.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Jaq on August 03, 2012, 07:56:11 AM
I actually rate ATTWT a lot higher than most, mainly because it's the first Genesis album I ever owned and I love it to death for that reason, but I do admit the band was figuring out what the limits of their sound was now as a trio and that's why the album feels transitional. By Duke they knew what they could do and wrote accordingly.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on August 03, 2012, 07:59:41 AM
For some reason I can't get into ATTWT. Nothing on the album clicks for me. I must give it another spin or two soon.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on August 03, 2012, 09:37:01 AM
I actually rate ATTWT a lot higher than most, mainly because it's the first Genesis album I ever owned and I love it to death for that reason, but I do admit the band was figuring out what the limits of their sound was now as a trio and that's why the album feels transitional. By Duke they knew what they could do and wrote accordingly.

This is me, exactly.  With no other Genesis albums to compare to, this was the standard, the starting point.  They still had a lot of the old sound, instrumentally, but with Phil on lead vocals for three albums now, they were working towards their own identity in that respect.  But the point is that if you don't try to compare it with what came before or after, there's still a lot of great stuff there.

When I worked my way back in the catalog, I found all kinds of cool stuff, and I was with them as they moved forward, until I really felt they ran off the rails in the late 80's.  But lots of people love Invisible Touch, so there you go.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on October 01, 2012, 07:09:58 PM
Just so you all know, my Genesis Survivor is about to end! The last round will be posted tomorrow morning, pitting the Top 2 songs together!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Pols Voice on April 09, 2013, 07:29:56 AM
So, does anyone else like Smallcreep's Day by Mike Rutherford? Very good album from 1980 in the Genesis mold. Tracks like the instrumental Out into the Daylight and the Squonk-ish Moonshine would appeal to most Genesis fans, methinks. Also, Anthony Phillips plays keyboards on the album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 09, 2013, 10:01:04 AM
I've heard that it's very good, but I never had a copy of it back then.  Now, I can't even find it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Pols Voice on April 09, 2013, 07:32:30 PM
Well, the CD is on Amazon for 12 bucks, so it's out there.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 10, 2013, 11:05:27 AM
Well, the CD is on Amazon for 12 bucks, so it's out there.

I'm pretty patient. I'll wait five years or whenever I run across it and get it for $5 or something similar.

I'd reckon I'd be homeless if I spent even $10 for every CD I wanted. Plenty of music to listen to in the meantime.

While I have quite a few of ELP and Yes members solo albums, I've never got around to any Genesis solo albums unless you count the Peter Gabriel catalog (Which I kind of consider its own thing.)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lolzeez on April 27, 2013, 01:52:09 PM
I have it both on CD and vinyl.  :biggrin: Easily his best work outside Genesis.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cyclopssss on July 11, 2013, 08:32:38 AM
Holy crap, Ive been listening to 70s Genesis the last couple of days and theyve been consistantly blowing my mind....

Everything from Tresspass on is fin AMAZING!

Nursery Cryme is just....  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on July 11, 2013, 09:37:55 AM
Oh yes :tup
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SomeoneLikeHim on July 11, 2013, 10:24:39 AM
Good for you! Have you listened to The Lamb yet? What do you think about it?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cyclopssss on July 11, 2013, 11:05:18 AM
Just listened to it today (The lamb...). Hasnt really sunk in yet, but that was quite a departure from the previous albums, I thought. I know its sort of a conceptalbum, but the songs are a lot shorter than on the previous records. I also find it amazing that they seemingly bounced right back after Gabriel left.

And yeah, you can clearly hear where Marillion got a lot of their influences from.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Sketchy on July 11, 2013, 11:08:27 AM
I love seeing the love for Nursery Cryme.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SomeoneLikeHim on July 11, 2013, 03:08:18 PM
Just listened to it today (The lamb...). Hasnt really sunk in yet, but that was quite a departure from the previous albums, I thought. I know its sort of a conceptalbum, but the songs are a lot shorter than on the previous records. I also find it amazing that they seemingly bounced right back after Gabriel left.

And yeah, you can clearly hear where Marillion got a lot of their influences from.
Yeah, it's quite different. I personaly adore it and would probably place it as my favorite Genesis albun. Then again I can certainly see why some people wouldn't like it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on July 13, 2013, 02:13:45 PM

And yeah, you can clearly hear where Marillion got a lot of their influences from.

Except for Grendel and maybe a few other early songs (from Script), I really don't hear a lot of Genesis influence in Marillion.

I won't deny they were an influence, but I don't think it's very obvious other than a few early examples.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cyclopssss on July 14, 2013, 03:09:53 AM
I hear a lot of influences in Fish's phrasing, but that could just have been coincedance.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Tom Bombadil on July 14, 2013, 10:44:03 AM
Anyone else here like the Genesis Archives live show of the lamb lies down more than the original? It just feels more powerful with less weird effects. In fact, I deleted the studio version of the lamb off my iPod because I just enjoy the live recording so much more. Anyone else get that feeling or am I insane?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on July 14, 2013, 11:07:43 AM
The live version is very good, and everything flows better because it's being done live and, well, it has to flow because it's basically one continuous "take".  But it's hard for me to rank it above the studio version, which I've been listening to for over 30 years.  Different versions of the same material, each with their strengths.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Tom Bombadil on July 14, 2013, 12:53:29 PM
The live version is very good, and everything flows better because it's being done live and, well, it has to flow because it's basically one continuous "take".  But it's hard for me to rank it above the studio version, which I've been listening to for over 30 years.  Different versions of the same material, each with their strengths.
Can't really argue with that ;)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lolzeez on July 14, 2013, 03:23:28 PM
Anyone else here like the Genesis Archives live show of the lamb lies down more than the original? It just feels more powerful with less weird effects. In fact, I deleted the studio version of the lamb off my iPod because I just enjoy the live recording so much more. Anyone else get that feeling or am I insane?
Me too! I'm not even a big fan of the album but that live show is nothing short of awesome!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SomeoneLikeHim on July 14, 2013, 04:07:45 PM
I like both about equally I guess. The archives version has a bit more power though.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Sketchy on July 16, 2013, 11:06:37 AM
I love both, but that live version rocks so damn hard. For a while after hearing it, it took me ages to get back into the original, but I do love that still too.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Tom Bombadil on July 16, 2013, 11:22:06 AM
I love both, but that live version rocks so damn hard. For a while after hearing it, it took me ages to get back into the original, but I do love that still too.
Yeah I'm not saying the original is bad, but whenever I listen to it I think "I'd rather be listening to the live version right now" ^^
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Sketchy on July 16, 2013, 11:34:57 AM
Yar, I know that feel exactly. It's just slightly freer and just feels like the loud bits are allowed to go all-out. Fly On A Windshield especially is brilliant as a live song.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Tom Bombadil on July 16, 2013, 12:01:27 PM
Yar, I know that feel exactly. It's just slightly freer and just feels like the loud bits are allowed to go all-out. Fly On A Windshield especially is brilliant as a live song.
Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: snowdog on July 16, 2013, 12:31:02 PM
I like both for what they are.  Genesis always was an awesome live band.  Phil's drumming especially sounded better after he had worked with the songs for a while.  I would love a full recording of that show with the original vocals though.  I understand Gabriel adding them where the costumes got in the way.  But there are other cases where he changed them just because he didn't like them (Back In NYC for instance).

The other thing technological issue the live shows had in the 70s was the lack of a real piano (or something that sounded like one).  Other than that I love their live sound.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on July 29, 2013, 07:20:04 PM
Listened to a couple of vintage shows with Bruford over the weekend.

There are times when I think it was the best Genesis lineup ever.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: TheGreatPretender on July 29, 2013, 07:31:43 PM
I've only heard a handful of songs by Genesis, but I've been meaning to explore more. Where should I start?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Tom Bombadil on July 29, 2013, 08:18:13 PM
I've only heard a handful of songs by Genesis, but I've been meaning to explore more. Where should I start?
In my opinion, the best Genesis you'll find is from Foxtrot, Nursery Crime , and Selling England By the Pound. Those three albums are near perfect. Also good are The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, Trespass, Trick of the Tail, and Wind & Wuthering. After that the albums start to get a little to poppy for my taste. If you're exploring Genesis for the prog side of things, definitely go with the first three I mentioned. You won't be disappointed!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Unlegit on July 29, 2013, 11:25:34 PM
Pretty much all the albums with Peter Gabriel are prog masterpieces (after Trespass, but even that is solid), and the first two albums with Phil Collins as lead singer are also really good. After that, they do get more poppy, but I still really do enjoy all of those albums, aside from the last one. Even if you aren't necessarily into "pop", you still may enjoy quite a few songs off those albums.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mosh on July 30, 2013, 01:16:47 AM
For the Gabriel era, I started with Selling England By The Pound. It really was the best choice, since it covers the gamut of what that lineup did musically.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SomeoneLikeHim on July 30, 2013, 01:34:50 AM
The lamb is my favorite, but don't start with that. Much better to start with Nursery, Foxtrot or Selling.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lolzeez on July 30, 2013, 06:13:48 AM
And Then There Were Three is so underrated it hurts. To me,that album is up there with Wind And Wuthering.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Moonchild on August 14, 2013, 09:54:49 AM
nah.. It's a mess of keyboards.

Although I like Many Too Many
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SomeoneLikeHim on August 14, 2013, 05:30:58 PM
It's a good album but still my least favorite of the pre-abacab albums (not counting FGTR).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: toro on August 14, 2013, 09:07:40 PM
I've been on a Genesis kick lately.
I've been listening to Duke a lot, so then I said: "Fuck it let's play some Lamb".

I fell in love with it all over again.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Tom Bombadil on August 14, 2013, 09:30:40 PM
And Then There Were Three is so underrated it hurts. To me,that album is up there with Wind And Wuthering.
I should probably give it another try. My first listen was long time ago and I was like "this sounds nothing like SEPTP" and so I never explored it further. I'll have to give it a shot.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on August 25, 2013, 08:09:03 PM
I thought I'd let you all know that I've listed the first two Genesis Box Sets (1970-1975 and 1976-1982) on eBay.

(https://www.allaboutjazz.com/coverart/2008/genesisbox2008.jpg) (https://media.monstersandcritics.com/articles/1312804/article_images/genesis450.jpg)

Both boxes are the remastered CDs plus 5.1 DVD-Audio versions, plus the booklet and extras for each.  The first box is therefore 13 discs (The Lamb is a double CD, but single DVD-A) and the second box is 12 discs.

I've literally played each disc once.  Everything's in excellent, "like new" condition.

Starting bid for each is $80.  I have no idea how this will go.  Never sold anything on Ebay before.  Seller is "Orbertus" ("Orbert" was taken").
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The King in Crimson on August 25, 2013, 08:38:27 PM
If I hadn't just spent a buncha money on music recently, I'd be all over the second one (1976-1982).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Nel on August 25, 2013, 09:17:29 PM
They're really nice box sets too. I still want the live one though. Never bought it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Jaq on August 25, 2013, 09:39:03 PM
If I didn't already own these... :lol

Hope you find a buyer for them, Orbert :D
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: LieLowTheWantedMan on August 25, 2013, 10:00:50 PM
Sometimes I think the best thing Gabriel ever did was leave and pursue a solo career.


It was. 

Am I the only one who prefers Foxtrot to Selling England?
Nope. I think Selling England is the weakest Gabriel era Genesis album aside from the debut and Foxtrot is one of my favourite albums.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ColdFireYYZ on August 26, 2013, 08:55:29 AM
Foxtrot is either my favorite or second favorite Gabriel album (the other one being Nursery Cryme). I do love Selling England though.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on October 02, 2013, 09:33:05 PM
Watching this concert right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbNo14hMuU8

Just plain amazing.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Jaq on October 03, 2013, 09:04:56 AM
Oh yeah I'll be all over that when I've got a couple of hours handy.  :metal
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Outcrier on October 03, 2013, 12:45:47 PM
I've only heard a handful of songs by Genesis, but I've been meaning to explore more. Where should I start?

Some songs: The Knife, Cinema Show, In The Cage, Return of the Giant Hogweed, Supper's Ready, Firth of Fifth, Dance on a Volcano
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on October 03, 2013, 01:21:58 PM
That's only Gabriel-era though. Domino is an excellent tune, so is Duke's Travels and Second Home By The Sea.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lolzeez on October 03, 2013, 02:36:37 PM
Home By The Sea + Second Home By The Sea are the best post Gabriel-era songs imo. Today at least.  :lol
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Phoenix87x on October 03, 2013, 02:46:30 PM
Fly on a windshield  :metal
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SomeoneLikeHim on October 03, 2013, 04:17:52 PM
If the duke suite was released as one song it would be in my Genesis top 5.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on October 03, 2013, 05:23:55 PM
You know, I can't think of a single Genesis instrumental I don't like.
And what's even more interesting, they have exactly the same musical lineup as DT, their instrumentals were never cluttered. Banks was often perfectly content to play a single melody line, and Hackett would just play a single guitar bend to accentuate a chord.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SomeoneLikeHim on October 04, 2013, 12:39:58 AM
You know, I can't think of a single Genesis instrumental I don't like.
And what's even more interesting, they have exactly the same musical lineup as DT, their instrumentals were never cluttered. Banks was often perfectly content to play a single melody line, and Hackett would just play a single guitar bend to accentuate a chord.
The waiting room?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Nel on October 04, 2013, 01:05:26 AM
Home By The Sea + Second Home By The Sea are the best post Gabriel-era songs imo. Today at least.  :lol

Sometimes yes.  :metal Sometimes it's Mama.

...The s/t is in my top 3 Genesis albums.  :lol
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Outcrier on October 04, 2013, 05:08:53 AM
That's only Gabriel-era though. Domino is an excellent tune, so is Duke's Travels and Second Home By The Sea.

Didn't bother exploring much of the post Gabriel era as i didn't liked Trick of Tail that much (and i even don't listen too much to classic Genesis already).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jsbru on October 06, 2013, 08:51:47 PM
Just listened to "Duke" for the second time today while going for a walk.  The first time I listened to it, it was a little much and I couldn't digest it all at once.  This time around, my mind was blown.  I really like this "in between" progressive/pop sound.  Invisible Touch is one of my favorite albums of all time despite its poppiness (the B-side is still pretty progressive though), but I feel like Duke could be right up there with a few more listens.  It's the best "new" album I've heard in a long time.

I think the Gabriel Genesis albums are a little over the top for me.  Too much farting around.  I'll have to check out the other albums post-Gabriel but pre-Invisible Touch.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 06, 2013, 09:19:57 PM
Duke is my favorite Genesis album.  I think overall, I like the five-piece band, but while I don't consider any of it "farting around", I think I know what you mean.  There was definitely a lot more experimentation, and with experimentation thiings can be hit or miss.  It's the misses the bring things down a bit overall.  The three-piece band, and even the four-piece, were very consistent IMO.  Duke for me is the best of both worlds.  Solid, concise, but also kinda proggy and not blatantly poppy either.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jsbru on October 06, 2013, 09:35:26 PM
Not to take away too much from the Gabriel-era Genesis, because there are some spectacular moments, but their early 70s stuff, more than any other prog band, seem to meander and have parts where you're just thinking..."where is this going?"

One of the reasons Yes is my second-favorite all-time band is that they are able to keep their focus and keep their songs from aimless musical wandering (Tales of Topographic Oceans notwithstanding), yet still write long and incredibly complex pieces.  Genesis seems to get better at this later on.  I really like Genesis's 80's sound a lot better than Yes, but if we're talking about the 70's I much prefer Yes.  But I haven't yet got a chance to listen to Wind & Wuthering, Trick of the Tail, or And Then There Were Three...
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: snowdog on October 07, 2013, 01:13:12 PM
Definitely check out W&W and TotT.  ATTWT is probably my least favorite of the 70s.  It has some good moments no doubt.  But there are several songs on there that are not that strong.  They were definitely trying to find their feet as a 3 piece I think.  I wouldn't say Duke is my favorite Genesis album but it is hands down better than anything that came after it (and I do like a lot of the 80s stuff too).  Off the top of my head I would rank Duke at #5 with the run of Selling England through W&W above it (not in that order).  They are all solid albums though.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on October 07, 2013, 04:57:10 PM
found a rare if not 1-of-a-kind Steve Keene interpretive painting of the cover of Trespass over the weekend at the local haven (store) Cheapo. Looks awesome hanging on a hook from my ceiling. I wonder if Steve has done many other Genesis covers (among others. Cheapo has a lot of his Beatles and Zeppelin interpretive covers on their wall for sale).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on October 08, 2013, 12:07:14 PM
Duke is my favorite Genesis album.  I think overall, I like the five-piece band, but while I don't consider any of it "farting around", I think I know what you mean.  There was definitely a lot more experimentation, and with experimentation thiings can be hit or miss.  It's the misses the bring things down a bit overall.  The three-piece band, and even the four-piece, were very consistent IMO.  Duke for me is the best of both worlds.  Solid, concise, but also kinda proggy and not blatantly poppy either.

Absolutely, Duke is a masterpiece in merging the two worlds of prog and pop. I think it's the first album of the second-generation Genesis (i.e. the "Phil Collins Genesis"), but the prog hadn't become as subdued as in later albums.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jsbru on October 08, 2013, 01:09:42 PM
The only complaint I have about Duke is that "Misunderstanding" doesn't really fit in with where it shows up in the album.  It's a good song, but sound-wise, it's kind of inconsistent where it is if you're listening to the whole album.  They should have stuck it either at the beginning or the end, and made the Duke suite more continuous.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ddtonfire on October 08, 2013, 01:14:13 PM
The only complaint I have about Duke is that "Misunderstanding" doesn't really fit in with where it shows up in the album.  It's a good song, but sound-wise, it's kind of inconsistent where it is if you're listening to the whole album.  They should have stuck it either at the beginning or the end, and made the Duke suite more continuous.

There must be some misunderstanding here.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 08, 2013, 01:33:12 PM
Originally, they had the Duke suite and the six other songs.  Since they'd already done the "epic" (Supper's Ready) and didn't want to invite direct comparisons, they decided to break it up.  So it opens and closes the album, and "Turn It On Again" originally opened Side Two.  They arranged the remaining songs so that they formed a rough narrative.  The album isn't really a concept album, but they knew that their fans would try to make it one (ha ha) so the track order was to create a story as best they could from the pieces they had.

"Misunderstanding" appears where it does for that reason.  Duke's relationship issues more or less parallel some of the problems Phil Collins was having at the time.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on October 08, 2013, 02:05:30 PM
Well, part of the Genesis listening experience is to sit through Phil Collins' whiny songs :lol I mean, the guy wrote sooo many whiny break-up/love songs, it's not even funny.

Misunderstanding
Your own special way
Taking It All Too Hard
Throwing It All Away
Since I Lost You
This Must Be Love
I Missed Again
I Cannot Believe It's True
You Can't Hurry Love
Don't Let Him Steal Your Heart Away
Why Can't It Wait Til Morning
I Don't Wanna Know
One More Night .....

.....


Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 08, 2013, 02:16:52 PM
Your Own Special Way was Mike Rutherford
Taking It All Too Hard is credited to Genesis, but was mostly Tony Banks
You Can't Hurry Love is an old Motown staple

The rest of those... yeah.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on October 08, 2013, 02:18:56 PM
Yeah, I was really just going through the albums and picking every love/whiny song :lol

While he was actually alright in Genesis, once he did solo stuff, his whiny songs got out of control. Some albums are half just love songs.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 08, 2013, 02:31:04 PM
Yeah, I was really just going through the albums and picking every love/whiny song :lol
That's what I figured.  For a long time, I thought Your Own Special Way was written by Phil, too.

While he was actually alright in Genesis, once he did solo stuff, his whiny songs got out of control. Some albums are half just love songs.
Also true.  Without the other guys to keep him in check, he went nuts.  But art reflects life, and his personal life has been shitty for quite a while, especially in the love department.  Also, whiny love songs sell.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jsbru on October 08, 2013, 07:22:32 PM
Also, whiny love songs sell.

Yeah.  For a lot of people, life is one whiny, dramatic love song after the other.  Validating these feelings is an incredibly good way to market music.  :D
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jsbru on October 09, 2013, 12:38:45 AM
I've listened to this two more times since I posted.  I think Heathaze is my favorite.  It's like a musical orgasm at the end of "Side A."

And not to be outdone, right after, we get "turn it on again."  ;)

Joking aside, there's some really cool key changes in Heathaze.  I tried soloing over it and was instantly perplexed.  You can't just bang away at the same scale like most rock songs.

B major/mixolydian to D major/mixolydian...and then the cool part, Eb minor.  Then back to B and then B minor.  It will keep you on your toes.  This song is so good, I wish there was like an extended solo section or something.  If I ever played it live, I'd try and add my own.  It would be a great opportunity for piano, too.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 09, 2013, 07:14:47 AM
"Heathaze" is one of my favorite Genesis songs, and probably my favorite from Duke.  This was the first CD I ever bought, and I was thinking of "Heathaze" when I chose it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on October 12, 2013, 12:10:29 PM
Watching this concert right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbNo14hMuU8

Just plain amazing.

Got this on DVD. 1976 to 1984 has always been my favorite era and this is but one example why.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on October 12, 2013, 12:14:28 PM
Yeah, I was really just going through the albums and picking every love/whiny song :lol
That's what I figured.  For a long time, I thought Your Own Special Way was written by Phil, too.

While he was actually alright in Genesis, once he did solo stuff, his whiny songs got out of control. Some albums are half just love songs.
Also true.  Without the other guys to keep him in check, he went nuts.  But art reflects life, and his personal life has been shitty for quite a while, especially in the love department.  Also, whiny love songs sell.

I bailed after his first two solo albums. Though I'll admit to owning his 12 inch mix CD.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lolzeez on October 12, 2013, 12:25:52 PM
Face Value is the only album I can listen to without skipping one song. And I rarely listen to that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ddtonfire on October 12, 2013, 03:01:37 PM
I don't care how whiny some of his stuff may be, I love Phil's solo career.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 12, 2013, 04:24:48 PM
Face Value was sweet, and I still listen to it sometimes.  Hello, I Must Be Going also has some great stuff.  What was after that, No Jacket Required?  I think that's when I decided to move on.  Not horrible, but he was already starting to load them up with commercial crap, rather than stretching out and doing musically experimental stuff like "The West Side".
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on October 13, 2013, 10:26:16 PM
The first two solo albums are brilliant. One aspect he lost over the years was that of creepy music. He was so good at it (In the air tonight, Thru these walls) but then just stopped.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Unlegit on October 14, 2013, 12:08:32 AM
I liked the majority of Phil's solo work, but then again, I also enjoyed Genesis' "pop" period.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jsbru on October 15, 2013, 01:13:13 AM
Not to sound like a broken record, but my god do I like Duke.  I'm on close to my 10th listen.  I can't get enough...gets better every time.

I also kind of dig Trick of the Tail, but it's merely above average compared to the other prog masterpieces I like.  ATTWT and W&W were decent, but didn't grab me yet.  The rest of Genesis (the Gabriel era, and post-Duke (minus Invisible Touch) I just don't get into as much.  IOW, Duke and IT really stand out to me, but most of their other stuff is just okay by prog standards.

Wish they could get back together, but that doesn't seem like it will ever happen.  No chance of me ever seeing them live...  :'(
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lolzeez on October 15, 2013, 06:21:20 AM
Just watched a concert with Ray Wilson.



Bloody hell, that was awful.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on October 18, 2013, 06:59:06 PM
Just watched a concert with Ray Wilson.



Bloody hell, that was awful.

Haven't seen a gig, but I really didn't think the album was that bad. I still listen to it a few times a year.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cable on November 30, 2013, 05:13:19 AM
Well shoot. That did not last long

"Phil Collins considering a return to music?"


https://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/nov/28/phil-collins-making-return-to-music-genesis (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/nov/28/phil-collins-making-return-to-music-genesis)

This may deserve its own thread, or go in Phil's thread. But considering I'm guessing *most* of care more about the Genesis factor. I will just say it, on the super slim chance it happens; the primary five or bust. The chemistry between the three is great and all, but we had a lot of that including the last reunion.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SomeoneLikeHim on November 30, 2013, 06:57:49 AM
 :omg: I'm not sure what to think about this. As you say it probably isn't going to happen. I would totally go if it did happen though and they came here! ;D
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cable on November 30, 2013, 08:41:04 AM
:omg: I'm not sure what to think about this. As you say it probably isn't going to happen. I would totally go if it did happen though and they came here! ;D


I honestly think it is all on Peter, like last time. Frankly I'm kind of bitter still about it. I mean just do three-four concerts of the Lamb and other songs, record them all and call it a day. If one was in the US, I would attempt to travel there, cuz it would be that cool.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 30, 2013, 08:42:40 AM
Musicians retire and unretire all the time, so this doesn't surprise me.

But as much as I love the music of Genesis, especially classic Genesis with the classic lineup of five, I have little to no interest in them getting together.  I remember seeing footage of the reunion tour from years ago, and Phil Collins' voice struggled to sing most of the material, and he is older now.  And Peter Gabriel is up there, too, and wouldn't have a prayer of doing justice to most of that material he originally sang in the early 70s. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 30, 2013, 08:48:27 AM
The one thing that might get him up on stage again is his kids.  That actually makes perfect sense.  It doesn't matter what you do, if you get tired of it, or feel you can't do it, or don't see the point anymore, then money won't get you to do it again, and your manager or other people won't get you to do it.  But yours kids asking you to do it very well could.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cable on November 30, 2013, 09:03:49 AM
Well, if cows fly and Peter gives it a go, they would tune down and what not like they did in 2007... just the nature of aging vocalists.

I know the performance wouldn't be true to the original and whatever. I think the Lamb could have been much better with instrumentation, mainly Hackett really being a fifth wheel. I prefer the archives performances/studio doctoring compared to the studio Lamb. I enjoy CC 99' because Hackett had more presence, and with how he has reimagined a fair amount of the songs since, I'm curious how all would sound together. I think CC 99' was lower anyway, and I still enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sneakyblueberry on November 30, 2013, 09:53:02 PM
Peter's voice has aged considerably better than Phil's though, right?  It doesn't say anything about Phil being able to play drums again so that adds even more doubt to a Gabriel-led Genesis reunion.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on December 01, 2013, 01:41:52 PM
Trey Anastasio has approached Peter Gabriel to perform The Lamb on more than 1 occasion, for 1 of Phish's special Halloween shows. He's decided that Phish won't perform The Lamb unless it's with Gabriel, but Gabriel has said a lot of the music on The Lamb he's not able to sing now (mainly since he was barely able to when they recorded it and on the subsequent tour, but the other guys in the band insisted his vocals be how they ended up. Namely, the higher-pitched stuff).

So, a reunion with Gabriel to do The Lamb seems even that much more unlikely.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: CrimsonE on December 01, 2013, 10:13:17 PM
I consider myself fortunate to have seen the 2007 reunion tour in Columbus, OH--and I drove six miles from Knoxville, TN to see that show.  Thus, the news of another reunion doesn't excite me as much--unless perhaps PG were involved.  The big question would be whether Phil's back could handle a tour.  I'm in my 40's with back problems, so I can only dread what being in your 60's with back problems will do to you. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on December 25, 2013, 11:19:22 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm85EgM4GZo
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lolzeez on December 25, 2013, 11:39:46 AM
How about just a regular reunion tour? Cause I'm not a huge fan of The Lamb.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on December 25, 2013, 11:48:00 AM
I just cannot see it happening at this point.   Not even for a "one off" performance. 

The theatrics would have to be *completely* reimagined.   (can you imagine PG donning the Slipperman costume?  The very thought sounds more ridiculous than anything else)

I think The Musical Box has Lamb performances down pat.   Any performance by the real Genesis at this point would seem...overshadowed. 

However, I feel completely differently about Lolzeez's suggestion.    I think they should book the Royal Albert Hall for a one off concert and film it.  (like what Cream did in '05)    Done.   Everyone's happy.     Heck, if they did the SEBTP tour setlist with 3 or 4 Lamb songs swapped out, I think it would be the perfect way to go out on top.   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 25, 2013, 04:24:15 PM
The problem is that preparing for a single show and preparing for a tour are the same amount of work.  Whether it's one show or 100, you're talking months of rehearsals.  Yes, these are all very talented guys, and they made the music in the first place, but that was 30 years ago and they haven't played any of it in a long, long time.  A few weeks of rehearsal wouldn't be nearly enough; I'm thinking a few months, minimum.  When you're looking at an actual tour, where you'll (presumably) make a lot of money, it might be worth it.  All that work to put on a single show...  I honestly doubt they'd do it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on December 25, 2013, 04:30:15 PM
The problem is that preparing for a single show and preparing for a tour are the same amount of work.  Whether it's one show or 100, you're talking months of rehearsals.  Yes, these are all very talented guys, and they made the music in the first place, but that was 30 years ago and they haven't played any of it in a long, long time.  A few weeks of rehearsal wouldn't be nearly enough; I'm thinking a few months, minimum.  When you're looking at an actual tour, where you'll (presumably) make a lot of money, it might be worth it.  All that work to put on a single show...  I honestly doubt they'd do it.

Well, Cream did it exactly that way.    So did Zeppelin for that matter. 

It may not make a difference in rehearsals....but I think you're grossly understating the logistics of taking a major tour on the road vs. just setting up a single show that doesn't have to travel.   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 25, 2013, 10:44:52 PM
I never said anything about logistics.  I was strictly talking about the rehearsals.  The music.

And nothing against Cream and Led Zeppelin, but their music just isn't nearly as dependent upon technical precision as Gabriel-era Genesis.  With Cream and Zep, their music is less complex, more rooted in rhythm and blues, and with a lot of built-in room for improvisation and groove.  Early Genesis depended heavily upon intricate arrangements.  More musicians onstage, more interplay between them, greater emphasis on dynamics, more complex music in general.

Page and Plant had been playing Led Zeppelin music in various mutations for years before the O2 event.  Jones is easily the most musically gifted of the three and it was just a matter of getting him into the fold.  And if you listen to the undoctored tapes, the performance itself was far from perfect.

I've never heard a recording of the 2005 Cream show, so I can't comment on it, but I think it's pretty obvious that preparing for such a show would not be nearly the endeavor that preparing a performance of The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway would be.

I'm not claiming that any of these bands is better than any of the others; that's strictly up to personal taste.  And I'm not saying that Genesis couldn't do it.  What I'm saying is that they know how much prep work would be required, and simply would opt not to do it.  What would be the point?  To relive some past glory?  Most of them speak very fondly of the early 70's band, but they make it just as clear that it is not likely to happen again.  They won't say "never", but let's face it; it's not gonna happen.  It would be a disappointment to the band as well as the fans.  Why put yourself through that?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on December 25, 2013, 11:00:58 PM
Yep, that is what I always say, Orbert.  Not just the work they'd have to put into it, but neither Gabriel nor Collins are even close to the singers they were in the 70s, and I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't what a hear a 60-year old Peter Gabriel struggling to sing and/or having to talk his way through In the Cage and The Lamia.  The band is simply too old to do something like The Lamb justice, musically and vocally.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: snowdog on December 26, 2013, 04:20:05 PM
Yeah they would need to  rehearse a lot.  I've listened to the Reunion show from '82 and it definitely had flaws.  Granted a lot of it was Gabriel not having doing that in years (not remembering things too much, the rest of the band making some arrangement changes to the songs,etc).  But the majority of the songs Genesis had played fairly recently.  Supper's Ready had been in rotation for almost 2 months prior for instance.  I'm pretty sure they only had a day or two to rehearse that and even with the band in good form, things weren't perfect. 

So for this to work out well, they need a LOT of prep work especially given how much rust all of this music will have had.  And even then, I'm not sure how Phil and Peter would hold up singing that material.  I'd be worried they'd downtune every single thing. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ThatOneGuy2112 on May 04, 2014, 12:33:36 AM
Well. I feel kinda silly now.

I've always gone on record saying that of Genesis' most renowned albums from the Gabriel-era, I never understood how Foxtrot stood out against the likes of Nursery Cryme or Selling England as their best album. I listened to it many times and liked it, but didn't think it stood out against the fold against the aforementioned two--those being my two favorite of the band's output. I could never really put my finger on it either, but it didn't grasp me like the other two did and lacked the interest to my ears. Supper's Ready, I recall, was actually a bit of a disappointment because it's been hyped up as one of progressive rock's golden epics, even as one of the best songs ever, but failed to live up to my expectations.

Then I decided to spin a bunch of Genesis a while ago--mainly because I just felt like it--and when I got to Foxtrot, I decided to give it another go, because, eh? Why not? Gotta give em all a fair shot.

Then Foxtrot proceeded to smack me the fuck up and show me the error of my ways.

It's another thing I can't put my finger on, but after not having listened to it in a long time, this time it wowed me a good number of times and kept my interest throughout. By the end, I was actually stunned as my enjoyment from the album grew immensely. I suddenly heard the appeal of Get 'Em Out by Friday and Can-Utility, both of which were always somewhat skipable songs to me. I can't say it's my favorite of their releases, but if this trend continues, it might be an essential album of theirs in my eyes.

Anyway, I guess I just felt like sharing that trivial bit of trivia. Has anyone else had this happen with a Genesis release?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on May 04, 2014, 12:56:23 AM
Selling England was the grower for me. Foxtrot hit me right away, and Lamb is still spotty for me. (disc 1 is AMAZING, while disc 2 has great moments...and ok moments)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SomeoneLikeHim on May 04, 2014, 04:26:40 AM
Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot and Selling England are all pretty much equal to me. The Lamb is my favorite though.

I saw Steve Hackett live yesterday. Awesome show, really fun to hear all the classics live.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 04, 2014, 07:05:25 AM
Has anyone else had this happen with a Genesis release?

Not really, but Genesis is one of my favorite bands, and I think it's cool that you've finally come to appreciate Foxtrot.  It is an excellent album.  That one and Nursery Cryme are something of a pair to me, the same way A Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering are.  Each has a strong initial effort from a new lineup, keeping essential elements of the previous work while also forging ahead; then the second of each pair is the more refined, more mature follow-up from the same lineup, building on the previous work.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ThatOneGuy2112 on May 04, 2014, 07:28:06 AM
Selling England was the album that got me hooked on Genesis. That one hit me right away. I think when that Firth of Fifth solo came up, I was sold. :hefdaddy

I'd always consider it my favorite of theirs, which it probably still is. I think what I liked a lot about Nursery Cryme was this fun, almost quirky feeling in a lot of the songs that seems largely absent on Foxtrot. It's a different effort altogether from its predecessor and on the many re-listens I've had on it recently I've found that it seems like a more refined version of NC.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Tom Bombadil on May 04, 2014, 10:17:54 AM
Foxtrot has always been my favorite,  but recently The Lamb has really started clicking, although,  as I've mentioned before,  I think the live version is 1000 times better.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ColdFireYYZ on May 04, 2014, 12:33:45 PM
Foxtrot is my favorite Genesis album, and Can-Utility is probably in my top 5 Genesis songs.

With me, A Trick of the Tail took a while to appreciate. I absolutely love it now, and it's probably my second favorite. Some of Genesis's best music is on that album, such as Dance on a Volcano and Entangled, the latter being quite underrated IMO.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 04, 2014, 02:08:03 PM
Foxtrot is great, but while it is far better than everything that came before it, it is topped by the three, and possibly four, albums that came after it. 

Having said that, Supper's Ready and Can-Utlitily... are definitely two of my favorite Genesis songs of any era, without a doubt.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Tom Bombadil on May 04, 2014, 04:27:05 PM
Foxtrot is my favorite Genesis album, and Can-Utility is probably in my top 5 Genesis songs.
Can-Utility is easily my favorite Genesis song, and one of my favorite songs of all time. It's such an underrated gem. The epitome of what prog music is all about.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on May 04, 2014, 06:02:12 PM
In my book, Genesis is untouched in the epics department. I think it's mostly due to Tony Banks, he just has these weird and bombastic chords.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 06, 2014, 02:11:09 PM
Still prefer Gabriel and post-Gabriel Genesis to anything while he was still in the band.
Guess you had to be there and I wasn't.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 06, 2014, 02:15:33 PM
You like Peter Gabriel solo, and Genesis after Peter left, but not Genesis while Peter was still in the band?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cyclopssss on May 07, 2014, 06:35:12 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSXLRByVcvU&hd=1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSXLRByVcvU&hd=1)

Nice version by Hackett of Carpet Crawlers
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on May 07, 2014, 02:51:31 PM
Kinda weird to see Wilson sing yet another Genesis song.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 10, 2014, 07:36:24 PM
You like Peter Gabriel solo, and Genesis after Peter left, but not Genesis while Peter was still in the band?

It's not that I don't like Gabriel-Genesis, it's just that I don't attach otherworldly significance to it like I do with solo Gabriel and post-Gabriel Genesis.  It's just kind of "there." I don't seem to be getting out of it what a lot of other people around here do.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 11, 2014, 06:51:04 AM
 A lot of it is a combination of how unique the music was at the time and the players involved, and of course personal taste.  Early Genesis combined English whimsy and storytelling with some early yet very mature progressive rock.  Banks on keyboards and Hackett on guitar were both virtuosos from the very start, and only got better.  Collins' drumming was amazingly intricate yet tight, and could also be heavy when it was called for.  You had the acoustic side, with two 12-strings and a six, you had Gabriel's unique voice... I mean, there was a huge amount of talent there, and it came through in every aspect of their music.

But it still comes down to taste.  If it doesn't thrill you, it doesn't.  You can't force yourself to like something, but I would at least suggest you give it another try.  There's only four albums from the classic lineup (Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 24, 2014, 11:42:51 AM
A lot of it is a combination of how unique the music was at the time and the players involved, and of course personal taste.  Early Genesis combined English whimsy and storytelling with some early yet very mature progressive rock.  Banks on keyboards and Hackett on guitar were both virtuosos from the very start, and only got better.  Collins' drumming was amazingly intricate yet tight, and could also be heavy when it was called for.  You had the acoustic side, with two 12-strings and a six, you had Gabriel's unique voice... I mean, there was a huge amount of talent there, and it came through in every aspect of their music.

But it still comes down to taste.  If it doesn't thrill you, it doesn't.  You can't force yourself to like something, but I would at least suggest you give it another try.  There's only four albums from the classic lineup (Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway).

Those years for me seem to be more about Emerson, Lake and Palmer, King Crimson, Miles Davis, Mahavishnu, Yes and Chicago among others.

No doubt Genesis were unique (as was just about any other band from that time) but it never really grabbed me. Maybe the sonic aspect of it plays a part.

I still grab a random Gabriel-Genesis album (except the first one- don't have that yet although I've heard it) from the shelf every few months or so and it's okay. Just not getting a lot of what some others get out of it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: LudwigVan on May 26, 2014, 07:08:34 PM
I used to be a Peter Gabriel -era Genesis snob, but I now think that the 5 Collins-era albums that followed it are every bit as good if not better.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on May 26, 2014, 07:31:42 PM
It's a knee-jerk reaction of a lot of people to shit on Collins-era Genesis because they got super-famous with stuff like I Can't Dance and Follow You Follow Me. While those songs aren't bad by any means, there's a ton of actual gems on those albums. Take Driving The Last Spike, or one of my all-time favorites, Domino. That easily compares to the Gabriel-era.

EDIT: I remember seeing a documentary where Phil was talking about I Can't Dance, and he mentioned that Roger Waters apparently didn't approve of the song, finding it silly and juvenile. I loved Phil's response: "Yeah, he didn't see the humor in it. Then again, he didn't see the humor in a lot of things". I always thought that was a very apt description of Roger Waters :lol
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sneakyblueberry on May 26, 2014, 07:37:47 PM
I used to be a Peter Gabriel -era Genesis snob, but I now think that the 5 Collins-era albums that followed it are every bit as good if not better.

Absolutely.  I rate stuff like One for the Vine, Deep in the Motherlode quite highly.  I think they're the perfect fusion of Prog pomposity and pop sensibility.

I recently had a wee resurgence in Genesis.  After watching Hackett's Genesis Revisited, I gave The Lamb a spin (as well as the live stuff from the Archive and some other boots that I had kicking round), and was amazed at how I had overlooked Hackett's contributions to that album.  The Lamia and It have some especially beautiful guitar work, that only Steve could've dreamt up and played in his signature way. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cyclopssss on May 27, 2014, 10:03:30 AM
So true. Been giving Trick of the tail and Wind and wuthering a spin today. Totally amazed by the athmosphere on those albums.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on June 16, 2014, 05:04:52 AM
JUST POSTED ON THE OFFICIAL GENESIS FACEBOOK PAGE!!!

"Genesis and the BBC have been working together over the last few months on GENESIS: TOGETHER AND APART

A feature length documentary on one of the most successful bands in rock history. From its first beginnings as a band of songwriters in the late 1960s to its final incarnation as a rock giant in the 1990s via full-blown theatrical progressive rock in the mid-1970s and the subtler jazzy pop of the early 1980s Genesis could perplex and enrage the die-hards, whilst exciting and exhilarating the newer disciples.

Made with the full co-operation of Genesis, the film reunites all original members of the band together Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Mike Rutherford for the first time since 1975.

The film recounts an extraordinary musical story, exploring the bands songwriting as well as emotional highs and lows, alongside previously unseen archive material and rare performance footage across their entire career.

Transmission date to be confirmed."

(https://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r47/jammindude/GenesisReunion_zps484d041e.jpg)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on June 16, 2014, 06:31:44 AM
Wow! Can't wait to see it  :omg:

And the guys look great together  :laugh:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on June 16, 2014, 09:36:23 AM
Sounds pretty cool.  I'll definitely check it out.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Tom Bombadil on June 16, 2014, 09:43:30 AM
This sounds great. Thanks for the heads up JD
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: snowdog on June 20, 2014, 12:38:15 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing it even though I'm sure I'll learn nothing new.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on July 10, 2014, 06:22:44 AM
Some clarification from Steve:

(https://i.imgur.com/tiYQqdx.jpg)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on July 10, 2014, 09:58:22 AM
Sheesh.  The press started creaming their shorts as soon as they heard Genesis was getting together to do this documentary thing, even though it was made very clear by everyone involved that it was just for the documentary.  No album, no one-off gig, please shut the fuck up.  Of course someone asked if there might be something down the road, and nobody likes to say "never" anymore so of course it turned into "They might!" and somehow "They're getting together and might do a new album or one-off gig or something!" and everyone had to go home and change their pants again.

Seriously, do people completely lack reading comprehension and common sense?  That's rhetorical, by the way.  The answer is No.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: dreamtheaters#1fan on July 10, 2014, 03:17:38 PM
I definitely want to see this tour.  I hope we get more than just the Lamb, though.  Maybe "Supper's Ready" as an encore.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on July 10, 2014, 03:22:43 PM
What tour...?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: genome on July 13, 2014, 10:01:52 AM
I don't know how good a tour would be to be honest, I'm not sure Phil would drum that's for sure. I saw them in the 2007 reunion tour, and apparently even then he was having trouble with some songs.

Great gig though. Los Endos blew the roof off. Well, figuratively as it was an open air stadium but you get the picture.

The documentary is going to be great!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ColdFireYYZ on July 13, 2014, 10:13:28 AM
After seeing Steve Hackett's Genesis Revisited band, I have absolutely no desire to see a Genesis reunion. Collins probably wouldn't be able to drum and Gabriel can't hit the notes any more. No clue if Banks or Rutherford could still play the old stuff as well as they used to, but neither seem interested in doing so. Not only is Hackett's playing still top-notch, but he and his band are genuinely enthusiastic about playing the songs, and they're probably better than a Genesis reunion will ever be at this point in time.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: dreamtheaters#1fan on July 13, 2014, 11:02:17 PM
Well I, for one, am excited to see these guys playing together again.  Sure, it probably won't be as precise as Hackett's band and the Musical Box, but there's a certain magic that comes with seeing the people who actually created the music go out there and perform these songs.  And it will be fun watching Peter Gabriel put on all of those crazy costumes again.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on July 14, 2014, 12:41:01 AM
What tour are you talking about? They got together for a documentary, no tour.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Nel on July 14, 2014, 07:21:36 AM
So about 4/5 years ago, I bought those three box sets with most of the studio albums (not From Genesis To Revelation).

I finally got around to getting the grey one with the live stuff. Should be in the mail soon.  :metal All that leaves is the Movie Box.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on July 14, 2014, 09:41:46 AM
What tour are you talking about? They got together for a documentary, no tour.

You and your facts. You're so ... unimaginative!

Seriously though, I think they just put the official kabosh on this thing. As PC said in that one interview, what would he even do in a Genesis reunion? He can't play the drums, and PG would sing. Should he just stand there on stage and smile?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: dreamtheaters#1fan on July 14, 2014, 11:53:50 AM
What tour are you talking about? They got together for a documentary, no tour.

You and your facts. You're so ... unimaginative!

Seriously though, I think they just put the official kabosh on this thing. As PC said in that one interview, what would he even do in a Genesis reunion? He can't play the drums, and PG would sing. Should he just stand there on stage and smile?

I think he's going to play the tambourine during the Lamb and then sing some of the 80s stuff during the encore.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on July 14, 2014, 11:59:39 AM
Seriously, are you trolling?  It's been stated repeatedly, including quotes from almost all band members, that they are not playing, just "reuniting" to make the documentary.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on July 14, 2014, 12:10:03 PM
Yeah, seriously, where is your "source" that they're going to play together again, let alone of all things, The Lamb?

If anything, they'd do ONE show with the 5 members, plus Chester (on drums) and maybe Daryl on Guitar. Heck, why not get Ant and Ray out there as well.

But any performance that includes Collins, Hackett, and Gabriel will never happen again.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on July 14, 2014, 12:11:55 PM
My source claims they are gonna do a reunion tour that will feature a 33-minute version of Illegal Alien.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on July 14, 2014, 12:14:15 PM
My source claims they are gonna do a reunion tour that will feature a 33-minute version of Illegal Alien.

I heard it was a 20-minute remix of "Who Dunnit?" with Gabriel on kazoo!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mister Gold on July 14, 2014, 01:51:52 PM
I'm currently listening to Seconds Out and I'm thoroughly convinced that it has the best version of "Supper's Ready" ever, at least musically. Sure, Phil was nowhere near as eccentric or theatrical as Peter was live, but his vocal performance here is outstanding. Just elevates the song to a whole other level. :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on July 14, 2014, 03:21:43 PM
I like the Seconds Out version, too.  It was my first Genesis album, and the original studio version is also great, but sounds so dry and reserved compared to the Seconds Out version.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mister Gold on July 14, 2014, 04:45:43 PM
I like the Seconds Out version, too.  It was my first Genesis album, and the original studio version is also great, but sounds so dry and reserved compared to the Seconds Out version.

Another thing with comparing Phil and Peter on the song is that a big portion of the charm with Peter's version was his costumes and visual accompaniment to the song. That adds a lot if you're watching a live video or seeing it in person, but if you're just listening to it with only the audio, I think Phil easily takes the cake.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on July 14, 2014, 05:29:40 PM
Totally agree.

I've stated that Phil is much more expressive than Peter, and had many Gabriel defenders tell me that it's really just a difference in style.  Peter's style is more quiet, controlled intensity whereas Phil just belts it out.

"Six six six is no longer alone!"  Phil is belting it out, it's echoing through the hall.  In the original studio version (and also the version originally recorded for Genesis Live which finally surfaced many years later), you can hear a certain amount of emotion in the words, but it just wasn't Peter's style to wail.  And in a live setting, I want the big and bombastic.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mister Gold on July 14, 2014, 06:03:50 PM
Totally agree.

I've stated that Phil is much more expressive than Peter, and had many Gabriel defenders tell me that it's really just a difference in style.  Peter's style is more quiet, controlled intensity whereas Phil just belts it out.

"Six six six is no longer alone!"  Phil is belting it out, it's echoing through the hall.  In the original studio version (and also the version originally recorded for Genesis Live which finally surfaced many years later), you can hear a certain amount of emotion in the words, but it just wasn't Peter's style to wail.  And in a live setting, I want the big and bombastic.

Definitely.

I've actually seen people compare Phil's version to being Disney-fied and saying he hams it up too much. :lol While I can understand people not liking his more bombastic approach, I think the only reason anyone used "Disney" to describe his version is Tarzan and Brother Bear which actually had some great music imo. :\
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on July 14, 2014, 06:10:59 PM
He does ham it up.  "Too much" is a matter of taste and opinion.  There are times when I think Phil goes too far, but in general, I like a live performance to sound live, not like the original version that happens to be performed in front of an audience.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mister Gold on July 14, 2014, 06:18:05 PM
He does ham it up.  "Too much" is a matter of taste and opinion.  There are times when I think Phil goes too far, but in general, I like a live performance to sound live, not like the original version that happens to be performed in front of an audience.

Indeed. Like, Phil definitely goes really wacky during Willow Farm, but then again, that part sort of requires its singer to go wacky to begin with.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cable on July 14, 2014, 09:42:52 PM
Well in light of the discussion, I will just say it; IMO, Peter's Genesis album vocals <<< Phil's Genesis album vocals.   :o

Peter's vocals/melodies are one of the two things that truly hold back my adoration for the band. And I like Peter's present voice more than back then because it's more controlled, and not as theatrical. So I'm one of the nutters that would want a performance with him (yeah, won't happen).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Harmony on July 16, 2014, 06:11:47 PM
All eras fan here.   :heart

Don't make me choose between Phil and Peter.  I simply can't do it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on July 29, 2014, 07:08:47 PM
All eras fan here.   :heart

Don't make me choose between Phil and Peter.  I simply can't do it.

I'm so glad I don't have that problem.


Quick question.

Anyone know if any more Savoy tracks from 11/81  (a few of which are on the Archive 2 box) can be found anyplace else? 

I listened to disc three of the set  again last night and forgot how Phil is really KILLING it that night. Just wondering if there are any goodies anywhere else.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on August 22, 2014, 03:26:40 AM
Genesis just announced a 3 CD set:

"Spanning an incredible 42 years, R-Kive is a new 3-CD, 37-track set that documents the bands history in the most comprehensive way yet. Compiled by the band themselves via a process of collaboration and elimination, R-Kive takes an in-depth, chronological journey through the catalogue and - for the first time ever for a Genesis collection - includes three personally chosen selections from the solo careers of Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, and Mike Rutherford / Mike + The Mechanics."

(https://i.imgur.com/PFimw63.jpg)


Release date 22 September according to Amazon.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on August 22, 2014, 08:18:50 AM
"R-Kive"?

Seriously?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cyclopssss on August 22, 2014, 12:04:40 PM
I agree, thats awful.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on August 22, 2014, 12:45:58 PM
The surprise was spoiled when someone noticed an Amazon listing for the Genesis "R-Kive" (gag  :yeahright ) earlier this week. Another cash-grab compilation. How similar will this be to the previous 3CD Compilation? I'm sure these will be pulled from the box-set remasters. I really wish this was a video, or a concert from the past. The only thing of interest would be the solo/related-band tracks, but anyone who is already a fan of Genesis should just get those band members' albums, and there's a LOT to choose from.

*Sigh* Yes release a less-than-stellar new album, Pink Floyd are set to bring out leftover session music, and Genesis toss out another cash-grab compilation. At least King Crimson are working on a new tour and hopefully new material. Who would have thought that the one old prog dinosaur who "called it quits" (I'm look at you Fripp) would decide to come back and tour with a new band when these other bands are pushing out sub-par releases? Granted, we haven't heard a note of the new PF album, but I'm keeping my expectations low since TDB was such a high note to end their career on.

I would've been more excited if Genesis decided to just say "Hey - we're calling it quits NOW, so don't expect anything else from us any more" just so we can all stop speculating on possibilities and rumors.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: lonestar on August 22, 2014, 12:57:47 PM
So, so lame.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Nel on August 22, 2014, 01:06:33 PM
Got excited for frickin' nothing. That cover? They announced it as the new logo. Why have a new logo if you aren't doing shit? I have all four CD box sets and the debut album, I doubt I need this for anything.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on August 22, 2014, 01:26:41 PM
Got excited for frickin' nothing. That cover? They announced it as the new logo. Why have a new logo if you aren't doing shit? I have all four CD box sets and the debut album, I doubt I need this for anything.

Precisely. This isn't for old or seasoned fans. This is for new fans who, if you still haven't listened to Genesis or it's related bands and solo artists by now, I GUESS this box set is for you. But honestly, there are better ways to get in to Genesis with their other compilations, and even their solo artists have compilations that will do a better job of showcasing those acts with more than just three songs. Who cares if those three songs were "hand-picked" by the artists themselves? I guarantee those three will be found on any compilation by said band/artist, especially Phil and Peter, and most likely Steve and Mike as well.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mosh on August 23, 2014, 01:08:42 PM
Genesis isn't even a band that you should use compilations to get into anyway IMO. Listen to Selling England and Invisible Touch. You get a taste of the two major eras and you'll know where to go from there.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on August 23, 2014, 01:17:23 PM
Genesis isn't even a band that you should use compilations to get into anyway IMO. Listen to Selling England and Invisible Touch. You get a taste of the two major eras and you'll know where to go from there.

IMO, you should start from Trespass and move onward. Hearing their prog roots in the Gabriel-era shines light on their music as it evolved into pop-rock, with that tinge of prog you hear in tracks like "Fading Lights" and "Driving Home The Last Spike", or most of Duke. They changed, but it was an evolution and not a sudden change, unlike bands like Yes or even King Crimson, both of which had drastic line-up changes that affected the band's sound. Genesis lost members, tweaks sounds, and each album was slightly different than the last, but moving forward to something new.

There can be fans of IT and WCD who probably skip the longer songs and only like the hit singles, and there can be fans of SEBTP and ATOTT that love the proggy, complex stuff the most, but to truly understand the band and their journey, the beginning-to-end is the way to go. At least, from Trespass to We Can't Dance.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on August 23, 2014, 04:36:09 PM
Well said.

On the other hand, not everyone has the means to start from the beginning and check them all out, or the time to do so.  A compilation isn't necessarily a bad way to get a taste for how their sound evolved over time, but it has to be a good compilation.  Not just "greatest hits over the years" but with representative album tracks as well, and arranged chronologically.  I always find it stupid when they shuffle everything together because "it's all Genesis" or whoever the band is.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mosh on August 23, 2014, 04:46:21 PM
Well said.

On the other hand, not everyone has the means to start from the beginning and check them all out, or the time to do so.
A compilation isn't necessarily a bad way to get a taste for how their sound evolved over time, but it has to be a good compilation.  Not just "greatest hits over the years" but with representative album tracks as well, and arranged chronologically.  I always find it stupid when they shuffle everything together because "it's all Genesis" or whoever the band is.
This is why I'd opt for IT and Selling England. You get a taste of both eras at their strengths, and you can choose where to go from there. If you prefer IT you can delve more into the pop albums first, if you prefer Selling England you can delve into the  prog stuff. I think that makes more sense than a compilation for a band like Genesis. Especially given their changes in sound over the years and how consistent their albums tend to be IMO.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on August 23, 2014, 10:11:31 PM
My favorite period of Genesis, such as it was, was 1976-77.  The two albums by the four-piece band and the Seconds Out live chronicle of those tours.  Peter Gabriel was great, there's no denying that, and the early progressive stuff is unmatched.  But many of Peter's songs really took on a new dimension when Phil sang them, even if Phil did tend to "over-sing" in spots.  The two studio albums are in my top five, and have the energy and creativity of a band's sophomore effort (which they were in a way) in that they had to prove themselves.  They pushed in new directions, stayed true to the previous body of work, and paved the way for what was to come.

My point is that this period would not be represented by either Selling England by the Pound or Invisible Touch.  It is quite different from either of those, being a transitional period.  Also, five of the eight songs on Invisible Touch received airplay.  It would be difficult to listen to this album and really glean anything new about the band and this period, unless you didn't listen to the radio until after the 80's (which I suppose is possible).  I think a better choice for the latter period would be We Can't Dance.  It's a much more diverse album, and with 12 songs rather than eight and a much longer running time, a better bang for the buck as well.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mosh on August 23, 2014, 10:19:21 PM
I don't disagree, I just think these two albums would be best for new fans to get their foot in the door. It certainly worked for me, at least. You don't get everything the band did on those two albums, but at least get an idea of what Genesis was all about. They might not be the best (though both are favorites of mine), but I find them to be very accessible and "easy" for a new fan.

A good chunk of potential Genesis songs are also going to be people who were too young to listen to radio in the 80's too, so that would be less of an issue.

Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on September 25, 2014, 06:50:22 AM
"We are very pleased to be able to finally tell you all that the Genesis documentary 'Together And Apart' will be screened on BBC 2 on Saturday 4th October at 9:15pm. The delay in posting this information was unfortunately due to circumstances beyond our control! We hope you enjoy it."
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 25, 2014, 09:52:00 AM
It always amuses me how bands and other people have to apologize for things "beyond our control" since that's usually code for "because the lawyers and all the other idiots involved couldn't work it out until now".
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sneakyblueberry on September 25, 2014, 06:50:00 PM
I'm looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on October 06, 2014, 07:30:47 AM
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/steve_hackett_slams_genesis_film.html (https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/steve_hackett_slams_genesis_film.html)

The guitarist understood the film would give equal coverage to his band and subsequent solo career, along with those of Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins, Mike Rutherford and Tony Banks.
Hackett says: "It's certainly a biased account of Genesis history, and totally ignores my solo work. It does not deliver the theme of 'together and apart.'

"In interview I spoke at length as much about my solo career as my time in Genesis, but was not given any editorial involvement. I know the documentary will soon be on sale, but I don't be selling it via my own website."

The film is tied in with the band's "R-KIVE" retrospective package. Hackett says: "The box set represents us all equally; the documentary does the opposite."


___________________


Did anyone catch the documentary this Saturday, by the way?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 06, 2014, 08:44:19 AM
Steve Hackett's contributions to Genesis have always been marginalized, and his subsequent solo work generally overlooked, both of which are a shame.  Steve was an integral part of their sound during the time he was in the band, and I always give him at least as much credit for their amazing prog as I do anyone else.  Since leaving Genesis, his solo career has been impressive.  I do have some issues with his "Genesis Revisited" projects, which on the surface seem to be little more than cashing in on the work he did in a band over 30 years ago, but I haven't really dug into them, and others say it's really good music, so there is that.

It doesn't surprise me that Steve is downplayed in this new documentary.  He had the shortest tenure in the band of anyone, and to many, that means he's the least important and thus least worthy of running time in the doc.  I couldn't disagree more.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Curious Orange on October 06, 2014, 08:52:11 AM
I did catch the doc, and it was rather an odd beast. I can sort of see Hackett's point - the five of them were sitting in a room, with Hackett on the extreme left, and most of the shots seemed to be of the other four. You could just make out his knee in some shots. To be fair, though, his solo career has probably been the least commercially sucessful, so it's not surprising they edited his out.

The documentary attracted an amount of criticism in the UK media for featuring Jonathan King, the music imprassario who signed the band and allegedly gave them their name (He was convicted a few years back for crimes involving under-aged rent boys). The film's producers and the BBC defended the decision to feature him as to do otherwise would be to revise history. Which is fair enough, but there was no mention of the Ray Wilson / Calling All Stations era at all. If that's not revisionist history, I don't know what is.

Only other interesting point - Tony Banks is a right miserable git. The documentary did him no favours whatsoever. He came across a bitter that Gabriel became a star, bitter that Gabriel left, bitter that Collins saved songs for his solo career, and bitter that his own solo career didn't take off in the same way. It was pretty obvious that he saw Genesis as "The Tony Banks Band".
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 06, 2014, 10:06:54 AM
Tony's always been like that, though not as bad in the past.  He sees Genesis as the band that he and Peter Gabriel started, which is not without merit.  I'm sure he recalls many times playing the piano at school and Peter singing, and to him, that was the start of the band.  To others, the band didn't really start until they had a guitarist, bassist, and drummer, and they went through many, and continued to change until the third album.

Banks has always been disappointed with the sale (or lack thereof) and popularity (or lack thereof) of his solo work, and understandably so.  But the fact is, it's just not very interesting.  He's a brilliant composer -- his two classical albums show that very nicely -- but when it comes to songwriting, he clearly needs someone else to work with and temper his ideas.  He's got a couple of real winners in the Genesis catalogue; "Firth of Fifth", "One for the Vine", and a few others, but if you listen to them, what makes them great is Banks' skill as a composer as opposed to a songwriter.  That may be a distinction that only I and a few others make, but if you catch my meaning, it's pretty clear.

Anyway, yeah, Tony gave his best years to Genesis and never felt like his contributions were recognized.  Phil Collins went on to become a pop god.  Mike + The Mechanics were pretty successful as well.  Peter Gabriel of course was quite successful.  Banks had one pretty good solo album (A Curious Feeling) but later put together a string of mediocre pop bands that each released one mediocre pop album before collapsing due to lack of interest.  He used to joke about how no one bought his solo albums the way they bought everyone else's, but even back in the 80's, you could tell that it actually bothered him.  I can see it making him right ornery nowadays.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on October 06, 2014, 10:47:16 AM
What irritates me about Tony's attitude is his inability to really stick it out with something. 

Even the Ray Wilson switch...  Sure, it wasn't commercially accepted, and the US Tour never happened, but if Tony had done ANY homework at all, he would have seen that a decent section of the hardcore fans (while not liking it as much as previous efforts) eventually started to come around to the idea that CAS was not a bad album, had some great ideas, and thought it would be interesting to see where this new incarnation of Genesis might go.     Maybe he was just too old to start from scratch again?  Or too spoiled to start from playing theaters after playing stadiums??

I heard rumors that Jimmy Page was the same way about the Cloverdale/Page project...he put it together because he *thought* that he could go back to playing huge stadiums like with Zeppelin...but when the promoters tried to tell him that he had to start by touring small theaters, he was too proud for it, and dropped the whole project. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 06, 2014, 11:26:01 AM
I see what you're saying about Tony, but I try to give the guy a break.  This is all he's ever known.  He went from being a spoiled rich kid to a spoiled rich adult.  Genesis formed and landed their first album deal when the guys were in high school, and they went nowhere but up for the next 20 years.  Going "back" to players clubs and theaters after playing stadiums was practically an alien concept to these guys.  They played some smaller venues early in their career, but in general did not go through years and years of paying their dues the way most everyone else does.  I don't know if it was his ego preventing Genesis from taking a step back to regroup, working up again from smaller venues, or that they quite literally didn't know how.

Tony definitely saw Genesis as "his" band after Peter left, and all the solo stuff and side projects were just dabbling in other things while waiting for the band to regroup for the next album.  But he saw how easily pop success came to Phil and Mike, and I'm sure there was some jealousy, and that eventually led to bitterness.  I consider him the most musically talented of the three (four if you count Steve), and I'm sure he does, too.  The fact that this would not translate into commercial success anywhere in the same league as the others must bother him to no end.


I never knew that about Coverdale/Page.  I always thought David Coverdale had a very similar style to Robert Plant and the Coverdale/Page project should/could have been the best substitute for Led Zeppelin that we were going to get, since apparently Plant isn't interested in revisiting Led Zeppelin.  Disappointing that it never went anywhere.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on October 06, 2014, 11:44:44 AM
I just feel like he might have had all the "redemption" that he had always wanted if he just would have built a new following around the new incarnation of the band.   It just seemed like he wanted that redemption instantaneously after a single album.   

While it needed some work, I actually thought CAS was a really strong album...certainly better than a couple of their 80's albums.  It showed promise.  And if Tony had just been patient, he had a decent foundation to work with.   But he wanted it all NOW.   It's just disappointing, because I myself would have been interested in seeing where this new, darker incarnation of Genesis would go.     

I just see it as a failed opportunity for re-invention. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 06, 2014, 12:01:53 PM
Calling All Stations is a weird album.  It seems like the band itself wasn't even interested in it enough to do it right.  I gave it a couple of spins when it first came out, gave it a break, came back to it, gave it another, longer break, came back again, and it still disappoints.  Some nice grooves and neat ideas that just never pan out.

Every song except one falls into a groove, then repeats and fades out rather than ending properly.  To some, that's a minor thing, but most Genesis songs have proper endings.  The repeat and fade is reserved for when that is the effect they're going for, not because they couldn't come up with an ending.

By the band's own admission, the songs on Calling All Stations sound and feel incomplete because they actually were.  The album was basically composed by Tony and Mike, working with a drum machine because they didn't have drummer.  The drum tracks were laid down in the studio, but once they got to the studio, they realized that they'd never written endings to the songs, because programming a drum machine to end a tune is complicated.  Seriously guys?  You didn't realize until you were actually recording the songs that they weren't done?  The right thing to do would have been to delay things, take some time to actually finish the writing, then finish the album.

Whether it was a financial decision, or the timing wouldn't work out, or what, I've never heard.  But while Calling All Stations definitely shows a lot of potential, to me it is just that and only that, potential.  They never followed up, and they only gave it a half-assed attempt in the first place.  The album is okay, but absolutely sounds like something that could have been stellar had they taken what they had and gone all the way with it.  Instead, they rushed it, put it out there half-baked, and then eventually cancelled the tour due to poor ticket sales.  What a horrible final chapter in the story of a great band.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mosh on October 07, 2014, 12:46:00 AM
For me, Genesis ended with We Can't Dance. Fading Lights is their swan song, and what a swan song at that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on October 07, 2014, 01:18:07 AM
For me, Genesis ended with We Can't Dance. Fading Lights is their swan song, and what a swan song at that.

Yeah, I like to pretend that CAS doesn't exist, or that it's a side project instead of a true Genesis album.


Edit: Wanted to clarify that sentence.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 07, 2014, 07:00:31 AM
Yep.  Despite the name Genesis on the cover, it's just not the same band.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ddtonfire on October 07, 2014, 08:31:58 AM
For me, Genesis ended with We Can't Dance. Fading Lights is their swan song, and what a swan song at that.

Completely agree here. Fading Lights is easily top 3 for me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on October 08, 2014, 05:29:57 AM
I watched the documentary last night, and I agree that Steve was totally ignored as a solo artist. What a shame, since he had some degree of success both solo and with GTR.

Overall a pretty good documentary, although the Gabriel years kind of flew by - and they barely mentioned my favourite Genesis album: Selling England By The Pound seemed like a footnote compared to the other albums, despite it being a very highly regarded album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on October 10, 2014, 01:22:54 PM
Haven't seen the recent doc, but I've seen a few others.

Of all the solo "careers" I've always liked Hackett's and Gabriel's best.

I also quite like Calling All Stations and didn't think it was given the proper chance.

Was Banks solo album Still mentioned and his songs with Fish?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ddtonfire on October 10, 2014, 03:58:30 PM
I agree with Zydar, they really glossed over Hackett and SEBtP. I'd be pissed if I were Steve, too.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 10, 2014, 04:28:51 PM
How long is this documentary?  I'll probably never bother with it; there's very little I could learn from it except how old and cranky these guys are getting.  But when there's only so much time to cover a 40-year career, the relatively short time Hackett was in the band might simply be seen as proportional to the total run time of the doc.  If they spent much time on him at all, the vast majority of fans, who only know the three-piece Genesis, would complain that so much time was spent on the early lineups.  I can see that, even though I don't agree with it.  As with anything else, they're catering to the largest fan segment, not necessarily trying to educate people on the history of the band, even if that's supposedly what a documentary is about.

I'm not saying that a total snubbing is warranted.  When you do something like this, I think you should at least hit every album, and if the idea is to show them "together and apart" then every members' solo career should at least get some screen time.  It sounds like the typical doc that spent most of its time on stuff we already know and what they think most people are interested in.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on October 11, 2014, 10:11:21 AM
Well, considering how successful the solo careers of Collins and Gabriel have been, it only makes sense to focus on them a lot as far as solo ventures go.  Meanwhile, the solo careers of Hackett and Banks aren't even blips on the mainstream radar, so they need to be a bit more realistic here.  I can understand the frustration by the two, but really, what else did they expect?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 11, 2014, 12:05:24 PM
I think they probably expected what they were told to expect, a comprehensive look at the history of the band and its members, together and apart.  Mainstream has nothing to do with it.  If the goal was to explore all facets of the band and its members, then that should have happened.  Instead (and again, I haven't seen it and probably won't) it was yet another regurgitation of the same crap that everyone else has done, focusing on the popular rather than actually attempting to dig any deeper.  In fact, it probably would have been more interesting to focus more on stuff people didn't already know.

Steve specifically speaks of how he was asked and talked about his solo material, and none of it was in the doc.  True, I'm sure they had hours of footage and had to edit it down to a reasonable length.  But if they actually asked you about things and you talked about them, and you were told up front that it would be included, then I think you're justified in thinking that at least some of it would end up in the final product.  Literally not a word?  Group shots with him essentially cut out?  That's just lame.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on October 13, 2014, 09:28:38 PM
I think they probably expected what they were told to expect, a comprehensive look at the history of the band and its members, together and apart.  Mainstream has nothing to do with it.  If the goal was to explore all facets of the band and its members, then that should have happened.  Instead (and again, I haven't seen it and probably won't) it was yet another regurgitation of the same crap that everyone else has done, focusing on the popular rather than actually attempting to dig any deeper.  In fact, it probably would have been more interesting to focus more on stuff people didn't already know.

Steve specifically speaks of how he was asked and talked about his solo material, and none of it was in the doc.  True, I'm sure they had hours of footage and had to edit it down to a reasonable length.  But if they actually asked you about things and you talked about them, and you were told up front that it would be included, then I think you're justified in thinking that at least some of it would end up in the final product.  Literally not a word?  Group shots with him essentially cut out?  That's just lame.

I completely agree with this .

Based on the chatter, it did seem like this time it was going to be a more definitive look, but  perhaps it was engineered that way to get people interested.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 20, 2014, 11:56:58 AM
So... I got up from a nap, wife was on the PC so I couldn't game or Internet, decided to watch TV.  I watched the documentary "Sum of the Parts" which presumably is this documentary which I thought was named "Together and Apart" (I don't remember now why I thought it was called that) but it had to be the same one, since it's obviously recent and they haven't done anything else recently.

It wasn't as horrible as I'd been led to believe.  Considering the amount of time and material they covered in 90 minutes, it was actually pretty good.

I noticed a few times when Steve was cut out.  The five of them were sitting there, one of them was talking about something that involved two of the others, so the camera focused on those three.  Or one of them was talking and someone made a funny face or otherwise reacted in a notable way, so they zoomed in to catch that.  There were lots of shots of all five of them, and lots of various subgroups of them, for variety if nothing else.  If they'd done everything with the wide shot of all five of them, you'd feel like you were watching a conversation from across the room.

Tony actually seemed less bitter than I'd seen him recently.  Yeah, there were one or two times he said something negative.  They all did.  It was refreshing to see everybody being honest.  I've seen many, many interviews with these guys over the years, and they're almost always politically correct to an extreme.  Proper English gentlemen, not wishing to insult anyone.  Not so this time.

It was still pretty much what I'd expected.  A reasonably comprehensive look at what they'd already decided most people would be interested in, and that's the popular stuff.  But they did spent more time than I'd thought they would on the origins of the band, including Jonathan King and Anthony Phillips, and that's good.  Not including the final album Calling All Stations was bad, though.  They at least touched on every album except that one.

Overall, not bad, and better than I'd expected, given the buzz and what I already know about the band (which is a lot).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: finn the fisherman on November 25, 2014, 09:26:33 AM
Have watched the documentary twice now.It's ok,but nothing special.
Now I love this band,have done since i saw them on the Abacab tour in 1982 here in the U.k.,when they performed Suppers Ready in all its glory.The band don't seem to be happy when they're sat together in the studio,and this is sad.Phil and Mike actually are relaxed,but the tension between Tony and Peter is almost too excruciating to watch ! As for Steve Hackett,well you have to feel sorry for him.Why was he asked to participate in this? His opinions were hardly mentioned! Steve has gone on record to express his feeling towards the doc,and he's not a happy bunny!
There's always talk of reunions with the five piece,but after this recording,it will never happen!
Still a great band however,with Gabriel era being my favourite.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 29, 2014, 12:14:27 PM
Being that U-Verse users get all of the movie channels free this weekend, I DVR'd the Genesis documentary off of Showtime and watched it last night.  Pretty good, even if a lot of it was stuff I had seen covered before.  Kinda cool to see them all together now talking about it, although after seeing it, I'd be pissed if I were Steve Hackett, too.  Many of the wide shots of the band were just the other four, and even his contributions to the band were glossed over.  Selling England by the Pound is a legendary album in prog circles, and yet was given like 40 seconds of chatter, 30 of which was a live clip of them playing I Know What I like... Hell, even when they discussed the Firth of Fifth solo, they showed the touring guitar player they got after he left the band playing it, not Hackett, and Banks even said it got better live than it ever was in the studio, which sounded like a shot at Hackett.  Some of those guys are definitely cranky old sods. :lol :lol  And Gabriel, who was probably the most pleasant of them all, looked like he wanted to elbow Banks in the face when he was saying he never liked The Lamb story.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 29, 2014, 01:54:56 PM
I guess I didn't notice as many of the "cranky" moments as some of you guys did, but now that you mention them, yeah, there were quite a few.  But it makes sense.  When you're younger and in a band, trying to be as successful as you can, you compromise a lot, being only one of many, for the good of the band.  Now that the band doesn't exist anymore, they feel more comfortable being honest about how they felt about a lot of it.  Stuff they never liked, issues they might have had with the other members but kept quiet about at the time, etc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on July 20, 2015, 09:23:34 AM
Saw this today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB5Y9G8oYuI

I'm surprised Wilson is allowed to do this. Does he have full reign to play Genesis songs and use the name as he pleases?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on July 20, 2015, 09:31:50 AM
Saw this today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB5Y9G8oYuI

I'm surprised Wilson is allowed to do this. Does he have full reign to play Genesis songs and use the name as he pleases?

Pretty sure he does. He's put out multiple live albums with Genesis songs on them. Some are pretty much Genesis shows, too. He even does songs he never did with Genesis (like "That's All").
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on July 20, 2015, 09:33:31 AM
Wow, now it gets really weird. They're playing a Mike and the Mechanics song.

I don't know. I find it weird that Wilson keeps on associating himself with Genesis that way, where his involvement really cemented the death of the band, and produced (probably) the least liked album of their career.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on July 20, 2015, 10:24:48 AM
He was officially the lead singer for Genesis, for a while.  I would say that that gives him the right to go out and sing Genesis songs on his solo tours, especially since Genesis no longer exists.

That said, I think it's pretty lame.  To me, it smacks of money-grabbing.  The Genesis brand means big bucks.  What's weird is that people know he's not Phil Collins, I'm sure a lot of them don't even know who Ray Wilson is, but the branding thing works and they go to the shows?

And yeah, even weirder that they do a Mike + The Mechanics song.  Maybe he just likes the song, and the fact that it's from a band which was the side project of someone in Genesis is just a coincidence.  A weird coincidence, but maybe.

Or hey, maybe Ray Wilson has actual fans.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lolzeez on July 20, 2015, 10:34:30 AM
I listened to one of Ray Wilson's albums once. Huge emphasis on "once". Also,will watch the documentary tonight. Will report later.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on July 20, 2015, 10:35:10 AM
Orbert, I think your last sentence is the crux. I don't think Ray Wilson solo draws anything at all these days; the days where people would go because he was part of Genesis are over. So, instead he makes it a "I'll play Genesis, and maybe a few of my own tunes" thing.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on July 20, 2015, 11:14:06 AM
I guess.  I'm far from any kind of authority on who or what can be popular, or why, so if it's not the Genesis thing that draws them, then people going to Ray Wilson concerts must be Ray Wilson fans.  And hey, if they go to his shows, that's cool.  But it still seems weird that there's a huge banner over the band that says "GENESIS" on it when it's clearly not Genesis.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sneakyblueberry on July 20, 2015, 05:07:49 PM
"Ray Wilson's GENYSIS"

That's a total money grab, and pretty pathetic.  Blaze Bayley and Paul DiAnno toured down here a few years back but at least they were playing the Maiden songs they actually recorded. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cyclopssss on July 21, 2015, 02:13:52 AM
Wot? Naaawwww  :omg:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lolzeez on July 21, 2015, 01:34:23 PM
I listened to one of Ray Wilson's albums once. Huge emphasis on "once". Also,will watch the documentary tonight. Will report later.
So yeah it was a pretty alright documentary besides the obvious clash between couple of the members and the dismissal of Steve Hackett. (whose solo work imo is better than all the members besides Gabriel) Also this documentary pretty much confirms that there will never be a tour of The Lamb. (Banks wouldn't be too hyped i think and can Phil even drum anymore?)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mister Gold on July 21, 2015, 01:45:54 PM
I listened to one of Ray Wilson's albums once. Huge emphasis on "once". Also,will watch the documentary tonight. Will report later.
So yeah it was a pretty alright documentary besides the obvious clash between couple of the members and the dismissal of Steve Hackett. (whose solo work imo is better than all the members besides Gabriel) Also this documentary pretty much confirms that there will never be a tour of The Lamb. (Banks wouldn't be too hyped i think and can Phil even drum anymore?)

I'm pretty sure Phil's already said that he can't play the drums anymore and footage of him playing a piano/singing in his private studio back in 2006/2007 shows that he could just barely do that too. I feel awful for him about that, because he was insanely gifted as a musician.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on October 29, 2015, 06:48:51 AM
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/phil_collins_has_returned_to_music_but_dont_expect_a_genesis_reunion.html

Mere five days after undergoing a major back surgery, Phil Collins has announced that he's returning to the world of music after a four-year break.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on October 29, 2015, 08:30:16 AM
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/phil_collins_has_returned_to_music_but_dont_expect_a_genesis_reunion.html

Mere five days after undergoing a major back surgery, Phil Collins has announced that he's returning to the world of music after a four-year break.

I'd go see him in a theater with a piano.

Check out the "Face Value" Classic Albums doc, there is a very cool clip of him doing "Please Don't Ask" just solo on piano.  Absolutely heart-breaking. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on October 29, 2015, 11:22:03 AM
I would have to see the setlist first. If he plays older tunes I'd go, but I'm not too interested in the Tarzan-era PC.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on October 29, 2015, 12:53:14 PM
Anyone follow The Musical Box?  Anyone know what "The Black Show" is?   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Nel on October 29, 2015, 12:58:23 PM
The last I heard about Collins, that back pain among other things had left him in a state of super depression, so I'm really happy seeing him come back like this.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: snowdog on October 29, 2015, 02:29:27 PM
Anyone follow The Musical Box?  Anyone know what "The Black Show" is?
Apparently on part of the Selling England tour they modified their stage setup and that is what they are referring to.  I don't remember all of the differences but I believe Black Lights were used a lot more in that version.  I think there was a difference in the screens behind the band as well.  I actually saw the Musical Box do the "black show" back in '97.  I haven't seen the normal show though and with it being so long ago I'm forgetting the details.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on October 30, 2015, 09:07:40 AM
Anyone follow The Musical Box?  Anyone know what "The Black Show" is?
Apparently on part of the Selling England tour they modified their stage setup and that is what they are referring to.  I don't remember all of the differences but I believe Black Lights were used a lot more in that version.  I think there was a difference in the screens behind the band as well.  I actually saw the Musical Box do the "black show" back in '97.  I haven't seen the normal show though and with it being so long ago I'm forgetting the details.

Worth going?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: snowdog on October 30, 2015, 09:12:18 AM
If you're a fan of the Gabriel era of Genesis, I would absolutely recommend seeing the Musical Box.  I've seen the Black Show for SEBTP, The Lamb, and Foxtrot shows over the years.  All of the shows have been awesome.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on October 30, 2015, 09:25:07 AM
I saw them many years back, and it was incredible.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on October 31, 2015, 01:26:07 PM
Random post:

Over the last few years, the Genesis album I go for the most is Duke. 

I've never called it one of my favorite Genesis records, but I think it is time I do so.  It's so good. :coolio
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 31, 2015, 09:19:40 PM
Good for you!  :tup

It's my favorite, too.  Has been for a long time.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on October 31, 2015, 09:23:25 PM
It's very consistent and just a pleasure to listen to from start to finish.  It's an effortless listen.  No, its highs aren't as high as some of the other records (there is no Cinema Show, In the Cage or Supper's Ready), but there are no lows.  It's similar in quality and consistency to A Trick of the Tail.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on November 01, 2015, 07:42:46 PM
I was about to say "What about Whodunnit? That song's a turd" but then I realized it's on Abacab :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 01, 2015, 08:09:00 PM
So the band I'm in (which incredibly has not self-destructed yet) is going to add "Turn It On Again" to the list.  I put it out there, and it got enough support to make the latest "let's try it" list.  Not all songs that make the "let's try it" list make the final set list, but it's a good start.  We have to try to do some more challenging songs, and this is a good song, much tougher than it sounds.  I also put "Abacab" out there, but not only is it even harder, but it didn't get as much support.  Those two things might be related.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 02, 2015, 07:24:43 AM
For what it is worth, if I was to list my three favorite Genesis albums...

Abacab
Wind and Wuthering
The Lamb

Duke would be next on the list.   (This isn't including live albums). 

Kev, if you are a fan, you might want to seek out the "Classic Albums" documentary on "Face Value".  On there, Phil does a solo version of PLease Don't Ask with just a keyboard that is heartbreaking.  Famously, he presented a number of songs (Misunderstanding, Please Don't Ask, In The Air Tonight, and I Missed Again) to the band, and they settled on Misunderstanding and Please Don't Ask. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on November 02, 2015, 07:33:52 AM
Duke is a really great album but the two Phil Colllins songs (Please Don't Ask, Misunderstanding) sound a little bit out of place and would be better placed on a Phil solo record.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mister Gold on November 03, 2015, 12:23:47 PM
I would have to see the setlist first. If he plays older tunes I'd go, but I'm not too interested in the Tarzan-era PC.

I'd go either way; I grew up on his Tarzan material! :lol

My reaction to hearing a Genesis song for the first time was literally, "Wait, is that the guy who did the music in Tarzan?" So his role with Disney led me to discovering his Genesis material and from there, his work in the prog era. :tup
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 03, 2015, 01:32:19 PM
I would have to see the setlist first. If he plays older tunes I'd go, but I'm not too interested in the Tarzan-era PC.

I'd go either way; I grew up on his Tarzan material! :lol

My reaction to hearing a Genesis song for the first time was literally, "Wait, is that the guy who did the music in Tarzan?" So his role with Disney led me to discovering his Genesis material and from there, his work in the prog era. :tup

Same for my daughter.   She couldn't pronounce "Collins", so he will forever be "Phil Connix" in my family, but she is even kicking around going to see the Musical Box with me in February.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 06, 2015, 11:40:26 AM
Been listening to Three Sides Live in the car last week.

Those versions of Abacab and the Duke Suite back to back like that is just killer.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 06, 2015, 08:27:12 PM
Agreed.  The live version of Abacab smokes.  I love how they've refined the jam at the end into a real structured piece that builds up to a great ending.

If you ever get a chance to check out the bootleg from May 7, 1980 at the Lyceum Ballroom, you should.  That's the soundboard from which a lot of Three Sides Live was taken, and it includes all six parts of Duke, played in order as a true suite.  Excellent quality.  One of the few bootlegs I've ever bothered keeping.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on December 06, 2015, 09:27:28 PM
Wasn't that tour the last time they performed Supper's Ready?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 06, 2015, 10:10:33 PM
Possibly, but it's not on the bootleg, and I don't think they switched up set lists very much.  They may have had Supper's Ready in the set list and dropped it at some point, though.

According to Wiki, 1982 was the last time Supper's Ready was played live in its entirety.  I don't know if they played it every tour until then, but if there was a tour where they didn't include it, 1980 would be the one.  Genesis saw Duke as akin to Supper's Ready in that it would be a side-long epic, so they intentionally broke it up on the studio album to avoid direct comparisons.  The 1980 tour was the only tour featuring Duke in its entirety, so as I say, this would be the tour to not play Supper's Ready.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on December 07, 2015, 02:12:01 AM
Been listening to Three Sides Live in the car last week.

Those versions of Abacab and the Duke Suite back to back like that is just killer.

It's probably my favourite live album from them, Seconds Out is great too.

I'm rocking my new Genesis shirt (https://shop.genesis-music.com/apparel/t-shirts-1/sum-of-the-parts-t-shirt-629114.html) today, btw.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on December 07, 2015, 06:29:07 AM
Possibly, but it's not on the bootleg, and I don't think they switched up set lists very much.  They may have had Supper's Ready in the set list and dropped it at some point, though.

According to Wiki, 1982 was the last time Supper's Ready was played live in its entirety.  I don't know if they played it every tour until then, but if there was a tour where they didn't include it, 1980 would be the one.  Genesis saw Duke as akin to Supper's Ready in that it would be a side-long epic, so they intentionally broke it up on the studio album to avoid direct comparisons.  The 1980 tour was the only tour featuring Duke in its entirety, so as I say, this would be the tour to not play Supper's Ready.

They played "Supper" on the support tour for Three Sides Live (not the tour that provided the material for 3SL, but the tour done after the release of the album). 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 07, 2015, 06:42:13 AM
Ha ha, that actually made me chuckle.  They toured to support a live album.  I don't know... that just strikes me as funny.  Of course, the original version of Three Sides Live had a fourth side of unreleased (in the U.S.) studio material, but it still seems weird.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 07, 2015, 07:12:00 PM
Agreed.  The live version of Abacab smokes.  I love how they've refined the jam at the end into a real structured piece that builds up to a great ending.

If you ever get a chance to check out the bootleg from May 7, 1980 at the Lyceum Ballroom, you should.  That's the soundboard from which a lot of Three Sides Live was taken, and it includes all six parts of Duke, played in order as a true suite.  Excellent quality.  One of the few bootlegs I've ever bothered keeping.

I'm almost embarrassed to admit the amount of times I regularly hit the back button on Abacab on that CD when it's done.

I have the DVD. Might be my favorite Genesis live DVD ever.  Been a while since I've had it on, however.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 07, 2015, 07:30:06 PM
Ha ha, that actually made me chuckle.  They toured to support a live album.  I don't know... that just strikes me as funny.  Of course, the original version of Three Sides Live had a fourth side of unreleased (in the U.S.) studio material, but it still seems weird.

Rush toured All The World's A Stage and Exit...Stage Left but I'm sure they weren't the only band that did that back then.

I have both Three Sides Live releases. Sold back my original after getting the 1994 remaster and released I had to find another original because it had the UK track listing. There should really be a release that has both I suppose.

I've learned the hard way not to sell anything back until I've listened to the new release.

More often than not though, I end up keeping more than one because the differences are interesting enough.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on December 07, 2015, 07:31:26 PM
I used to work with a guy who had the opinion that once a band toured on a live album, they were done, but he was a total grunge guy and hated any kind of arty rock, so he wasn't exactly a trustworthy guy when it came to musical opinions. :lol :lol
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on December 08, 2015, 08:08:48 AM
I question that logic, because for bands like Genesis and Rush, who like to put a LOT of new material in a set once an album comes out, touring a live album is a great way to sort of celebrate the catalogue a bit.  Both the 3SL and E...SL are notable for the inclusions to the setlists. 

As for me, I generally do not like medleys (though not as strenuously as Petrucci, apparently) but the medley after
"In The Cage" is likely my single favorite recorded moment in music.  Phil and Chester drumming away, Tony going crazy...


<Stadler runs to put that on right now...>
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: snowdog on December 08, 2015, 10:03:43 AM
As for me, I generally do not like medleys (though not as strenuously as Petrucci, apparently) but the medley after
"In The Cage" is likely my single favorite recorded moment in music.  Phil and Chester drumming away, Tony going crazy...
When I see a live show a Medley usually isn't great seeing as it means you miss a lot of the songs.  But I agree that one is really good.  Though I'm slightly partial to the one on the Mama tour where they included "In That Quiet Earth" as well.  And I think Genesis did a much better job with their transitions in their medleys than other bands do.

As for Supper's Ready, I'm pretty sure it wasn't played on AttWT (though I might be wrong and I'm not at home to check any of my bootlegs), it wasn't played on the Duke or Abacab tours.  But it was done on the 3SL tour.  What I always found odd about that though is that Who Dunnit was very close in the setlist to it.  That is just so jarring. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on December 08, 2015, 10:19:05 AM
What I always found odd about that though is that Who Dunnit was very close in the setlist to it.  That is just so jarring.

But that's Genesis, is it not?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: snowdog on December 16, 2015, 10:53:57 AM
Woot!  The Musical Box will be at the Oriental Theatre in Denver in late February.  Looks like they are doing the Selling England show this time around.  I'm really looking forward to this.  :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Progmetty on December 18, 2015, 08:29:09 PM
I wanna get into this band, what would you recommend for a prog/psychedelic rock fan?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on December 18, 2015, 09:07:22 PM
Selling England by the Pound or Foxtrot. 

If you like it, get The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on December 18, 2015, 09:07:51 PM
I wanna get into this band, what would you recommend for a prog/psychedelic rock fan?

The early stuff - Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound, etc.  Nursery Cryme isn't something I would call psychedelic, but has enough of an early raw sound that I could see it appealing to you, especially given the strong prog roots.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: NoseofNicko on June 26, 2016, 12:06:20 AM
Been listening to A Trick of the Tail a lot lately. What an underrated album! It's actually fucking awesome! Mad Man Moon is so beautiful.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mladen on June 26, 2016, 05:51:52 AM
Absolutely. Very underrated and one of my favorites.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: LudwigVan on June 26, 2016, 06:34:07 AM
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway is like a crazy acid trip.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on June 26, 2016, 09:17:16 AM
Been listening to A Trick of the Tail a lot lately. What an underrated album! It's actually fucking awesome! Mad Man Moon is so beautiful.

Musically, it's not that different from what came before, as Peter Gabriel mostly wrote lyrics, and except for The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, there were a lot of songs where he didn't write the lyrics, either.  Banks, Rutherford, and Hackett wrote most of the music, so except for Gabriel's vocals, A Trick of the Tail has everything that made those early albums so great.  And to be honest, during this period at least, I prefer Collins' voice to Gabriel's.

I love that little piano concerto that Banks slips into the instrumental in Mad Man Moon, with the keyboards playing all the orchestral parts.  That's a mini-epic masterpiece right there.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on June 26, 2016, 09:50:26 AM
Could not agree more.  Love that song.  In fact, that and Robbery, Assault and Battery are easily the two songs from A Trick of the Tail I revisit the most. :coolio
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on June 26, 2016, 12:12:48 PM
I just spun ATOTT the other night, and I am always amazed at how good it sounds, both in the writing and sonically speaking (well, at least the '07 boxset remaster/remix). The whole album, plus its one B-Side "It's Yourself", very much feels like Gabriel-era Genesis, as Orbert said, but with a bit of a fresher twist, something new that wasn't present before, and it might just be Collins' vocal deliveries, or it might be something else.

Maybe the growing attention to keyboards and the slow declining prominence of guitars might be that change, too, but before W&W, this album definitely struck a decent balance. I do enjoy all of Banks' parts on this album, though, from all the keyboards and piano involved, like the aforementioned "Mad Man Moon", as well as "Ripples". And that keyboard solo section in "Robbery, Assault, And Battery" is pretty nuts. Trick and Wind will always be two peas in a pod for me, and I often listen to both together as they're both similar, yet different. I always feel like SEBTP is a Spring album, while ATTOT is a Summer album, leaving W&W as an Autumn album (yes, I skipped The Lamb, but its not really tied down to any seasonal feeling to me).

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on June 26, 2016, 12:46:03 PM
Every time I hear the verses to Mad Man Moon, the influence of that kind of style on Neal Morse, the dramatic melodic vocal lines along with piano and some orchestration or mellotron, is more than obvious.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on June 27, 2016, 09:34:15 AM
If "Trick..." is very good (and it is) then "Wind..." is sublime. I think the band was sort of finding it's way with Trick, and so it's a very up and down album for me.   The ROCK of Dance, to the acoustic Entangled, to the ROCK Squonk to the acoustic Mad Man Moon...  Side Two is more evenly paced, but I prefer the bombast in Genesis (my favorite moment in all of recorded music is the medley portion of "In The Cage" on 3SL when Phil and Chester are playing together).

I just think that Wind gets it all right in all the right ways.   It is still second, behind Abacab (and sometimes third, behind The Lamb) in the catalogue, but I think it is a better realization (if somewhat more dark) of what the band was looking for on Trick.

Personally, I like Phil's vocals better than Peter's, though I tend to like his lyrics better (less treacly). 

Huge Genesis fan and I will not pass up the opportunity to remind people that the Surround Sound remixes in the box set(s) are essential listening.   Powerful, powerful stuff (and the interviews about the albums are very candid and revealing, though it's hard to listen to them and not think that the band is done, even if they haven't announced it yet).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on June 27, 2016, 05:42:30 PM
Wind... might have slightly higher highs than Trick... - One for the Vine is probably the best song from either - but Trick... is so just so damn consistent and flows incredibly well, while Wind... doesn't flow as well, which sure isn't helped by Your Own Special Way, which should have been tossed into the abyss.  Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of Wind..., but while that album sits in my 2nd tier of Genesis albums along with Foxtrot and Duke, Trick... is in that top tier with The Lamb... and Selling England...
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on June 27, 2016, 11:58:20 PM
While I absolutely love Trick Of The Tail, Wind & Wuthering never made a big impression on me, I may have to relisten to it, but as of now it's not one I reach for often.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on June 28, 2016, 08:24:57 AM
Wind... might have slightly higher highs than Trick... - One for the Vine is probably the best song from either - but Trick... is so just so damn consistent and flows incredibly well, while Wind... doesn't flow as well, which sure isn't helped by Your Own Special Way, which should have been tossed into the abyss.  Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of Wind..., but while that album sits in my 2nd tier of Genesis albums along with Foxtrot and Duke, Trick... is in that top tier with The Lamb... and Selling England...

As for "flow" I see it just the opposite.  At least YOSW SOUNDS like the rest of the album, even if the lyrics are sappy to the extreme, and it sets up the darker "Wot Gorilla?" perfectly.    I do love "The Lamb..." though, even if almost a quarter of Selling is ruined by the abysmal and horrid "More Fool Me" (more fool me for LISTENING!) and "The Battle of Epping Forest".   

My top five:

1. Abacab
2. The Lamb
3. Wind and Wuthering
4. Duke
5. ATTWT
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on June 28, 2016, 05:10:14 PM
Even though I love Selling England..., I do think it has a weird flow.  With the exception of the end of Cinema Show segueing into the last song, the album sounds like a bunch of songs randomly throw on to the album.  More Fool Me is always one of my first thoughts whenever I see the "great albums with one crappy song" topic. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on June 28, 2016, 05:29:18 PM
I like "More Fool Me".  No, it's not a great song, but it was an early Phil song that even then showed off his ear for interesting harmonies.  And I kinda like it as an afterthought after the amazing "Firth of Fifth".
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sneakyblueberry on June 28, 2016, 06:39:07 PM
I just picked up And then there were three, Foxtrot, Genesis Live on record for 20$.  what a steal.  slowly rebuilding the record collection that went up in smoke a few years ago.  having a grand old time revisiting these albums.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on June 28, 2016, 08:07:54 PM
:tup
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on June 29, 2016, 07:35:00 AM
I like "More Fool Me".  No, it's not a great song, but it was an early Phil song that even then showed off his ear for interesting harmonies.  And I kinda like it as an afterthought after the amazing "Firth of Fifth".

See, I love Phil's voice.  I like it better than Peter, and in fact I think Phil is a better singer than Peter.   Having said that, I like when Phil sings in full voice, when he pushes it.  "Dance On A Volcano".   "Eleventh Earl of Mar".   I HATE his twee falsetto voice, and the start of MFM ("Here am I... while away...") ugh... I'm done.  I can barely get past that (not literally, but it's what I like least about his singing). 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on June 29, 2016, 07:42:17 AM
I just take it as part of the song, part of the delivery.  It starts so quietly, with the singer in great emotional pain, and this is how the story unfolds.  It wouldn't make any sense to start the song full voice.

That said, I completely understand how it bothers some people.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mister Gold on June 29, 2016, 07:48:13 AM
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway is like a crazy acid trip.

But oh, what a great acid trip it is! :hat ;) :tup :hefdaddy :metal

Seriously, that album is like the musical equivalent of watching a David Lynch or Alejandro Jodorowsky film! Surreal as hell!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 01, 2016, 08:35:18 PM
So about a week ago I decided to look for this thread which I had glanced at before but never read in depth because I knew and listened to very little Genesis.  In the last year I have really gotten into the band and am amazed by what an odd story they have i.e. prog to pop, drummer replacing vocalist but still drumming and bassist replacing guitarist but still...bassing. 

So a lot of your opinions surprised the hell out of me because I agree with a large majority of you.  I figured a lot of you guys would be prog snobs and say "no Gabriel, no Genesis!" but I was wrong.  Here are a few of the things that surprised me. 

-There is a lot of love for Phil Collins led Genesis. 

-Some people even think Phil sings Peter's songs better than Peter! (A few I agree with, such as I Know What I Like but while its true Phil kills it on Supper's Ready, Peter maintains a bit more emotion with his less controlled voice...so much passion!)

-Invisible Touch is an excellent album.  Indeed it is and was my introduction to Genesis as a young child watching the Land of Confusion video on MTV.  Never got into them more than that and I Can't Dance until recently

-Calling All Stations is pretty good!  Weird fade outs at awkward times and maybe too many slower songs but you can't deny it's got some good stuff!

-Duke is brilliant.  Shocked that I don't think Duchess was mentioned once!  Even though I said Peter can sometimes sing with more passion and raw emotion than Phil, Duchess proves Phil has a shit ton of raw emotion.  Pity they haven't played this since the Duke tour (i think)

-A reunion with the original lineup would be interesting and I would love to see it, but at this juncture I would rather just see the three get back together and tour

-Rutherford and Banks don't get enough credit.  A lot of my favorite songs are mainly written by them such as Land of Confusion, Follow You, follow Me, and Throwing it All Away (Rutherford) and Domino (Banks).  Wish I knew how the rest were composed. 


So those are a few random thoughts.  About to try to grab some of the Genesis biographies and further my obsession.  Probably going to tackle the solo albums soon
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on July 01, 2016, 09:25:00 PM
The best biography of Genesis that I know of is I Know What I Like by Armando Gallo. (https://www.amazon.com/Genesis-Know-What-Armando-Gallo/dp/0960403604)  I read it back in the 80's, and at that time it covered everything up through Duke and Phil's first solo album.  I know it's been revised and extended at least once.  But no matter what, it is IMO the definitive history of the band.  Lots of great pictures (Gallo was known more for his photography than his writing), and plenty of history, too.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41AaxTtxkbL._SX361_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 01, 2016, 10:03:00 PM
Thanks for the info.  I was prepared to order it immediately but it must be out of print as there are no copies available for less than 50 bucks.  There is a kindle edition available for 10 so I might have to resort to that. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on July 02, 2016, 01:28:45 AM
I have only read Chapter & Verse, and that is a great one.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cyclopssss on July 02, 2016, 04:38:27 AM
The fact of the matter off course is, that Phil, against a gigantic amount of scepsis, ended up doing a fantastic job replacing Peter on lead vocals. Which must have been a daunting task, to say the least. Off course, bringing in a second drummer for the live gigs was a masterstroke.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 02, 2016, 01:45:49 PM
The fact of the matter off course is, that Phil, against a gigantic amount of scepsis, ended up doing a fantastic job replacing Peter on lead vocals. Which must have been a daunting task, to say the least. Off course, bringing in a second drummer for the live gigs was a masterstroke.

Nobody could criticize the band too much because it still was the original band....just minus a few members. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on July 02, 2016, 02:21:51 PM
Mostly original.  Collins and Hackett joined on the third album, but Gabriel, Banks and Rutherford were there from the start.  Banks and Rutherford are the two that are on every Genesis album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 02, 2016, 10:33:11 PM
Mostly original.  Collins and Hackett joined on the third album, but Gabriel, Banks and Rutherford were there from the start.  Banks and Rutherford are the two that are on every Genesis album.

Oh yeah.  Duh :facepalm:

Of course, the first album is almost a bit hard to count in the discography because it is so different and it is quite hard to find.  I actually just got my copy a few weeks ago and haven't really been inspired to listen to it much. 

Have they even played anything from it since the early 70s?

Have to admit, I haven't listened to Trespass that much either.  Long road trip tomorrow so I think I might need to finally give those two a more proper listen. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on July 03, 2016, 07:43:46 AM
"The Knife" comes back once in a while.  The shortened version was around in the last 70's at least, maybe early 80's.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 20, 2016, 11:49:15 AM
All right.  I come to you for recommendations. 

I am looking into Genesis members solo projects.  I'll tell you what I've got so far and what I think and please tell me where to go next.

Peter Gabriel's debut - I was quite suprised.  I had heard Solsbury Hill and Sledgehammer so I just assumed he went way more pop oriented.  His debut was poppy but still relatively progressive and actually a nice progression from Genesis. 

Steve Hackett - I got the 5 Classic albums set and I have mixed emotions.  Very progressive in some ways but for my taste it gets a little too progressive at times. 

Phil Collins - Got his debut.  Yeah, way poppy.  Probably too poppy for me.  BTW, I love the pop oriented Genesis stuff but I don't know if I can do this

Mike + The Mechanics - He and Tony are my two favorite Genesis members and seem to write all my favorite songs.  Mike's band was again, too poppy for me.  I have his debut, Word of Mouth, and Living Years.

Tony Banks - Got his debut which is pretty awesome and Bankstatement which although very poppy, is actually quite enjoyable. 


So what should I seek out next?  I'm leaning towards Tony Banks and Peter Gabriel but I'm not sure how Gabriel's latter albums are.

Also, don't bother recommending the Tarzan soundtrack because I already have it and love it but now my wife is going to force me to watch the movie. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dave_Manchester on August 20, 2016, 12:17:00 PM
^^ For me, Peter Gabriel's 'Passion' album is the best album any of the individual members did, followed by his 4th solo album, sometimes called 'Security', but officially just Peter Gabriel 4. That latter has some of his best tracks like San Jacinto, Wallflower, Rhythm of the Heat, Lay Your Hands On Me and I Have The Touch. Passion was his soundtrack to Scorsese's film 'The Last Temptation of Christ' and uses a lot of Middle Eastern and African musical influences. Not everyone's cup of tea but I love it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on August 20, 2016, 12:46:01 PM
Yep, the "Passion" CD is great, but I'd save that till late in the game regarding PG's solo work.

I would dig into PG's solo work first, Madman.  Melt, Security and Up are the three clear standouts, IMO.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on August 20, 2016, 02:04:44 PM
I thought Phil's first two albums (Face Value, Hello, I Must Be Going) were both excellent.  Yeah, there was some poppy stuff, but also some pretty cool stuff that I don't know if you'd call it progressive, but it obviously wasn't aimed at commercial radio either.  I know a lot of people cream their shorts over "In the Air Tonight", and I like that song, too, but it certainly isn't the epitome of his solo output or anything.  And if you think about it really, it's nothing like a standard radio hit; it just happened to be in the right place at the right time.  My favorite Phil Collins solo album is Hot Night in Paris by The Phil Collins Big Band.  It is, however, an album of big band music, so not for everyone.

Mike + The Mechanics were always meant to be something like a Top 40 band.  They get slightly adventurous sometimes, but I've never heard anything to sway my opinion.  Good stuff, just not any more interesting than most commercial-grade stuff.

I would've thought Tony's solo output would be hands-down the best, but he really needs a good collaborator to bring out his best, and he's never really found one outside of Genesis.  His first solo album A Curious Feeling is probably his best, but has dated keyboard sounds that bother even me (and I tend to be very forgiving of dated keyboard sounds).  I wasn't that impressed by Bankstatement, an eponymous album from a band that's really just a Banks solo project.  Same with Strictly, Inc., although I like that one a bit better.  That's his collaboration with Jack Hues, the singer from Wang Chung.  My favorite Tony Banks solo output is his neo-classical stuff, although I know that's not for everyone.  Six and Seven are both great.  Fully orchestrated stuff with all the Banks cool chord changes and stuff.  A lot of it sounds like the instrumental parts of Genesis songs, which isn't surprising since Tony wrote nearly all of them.  But I think it sounds amazing.

Peter Gabriel's solo stuff is very interesting, and I've heard a lot of people talk about how proggy it is, but really, I don't hear it.  I have his first five, and they're good, but I don't find myself going to them very often.

Same with Steve Hackett.  I love his guitar work, but that's about it.  Most of the songs bore me, and I'm rarely impressed by the singers on his albums.  If he did a solo album of just guitar/instrumental stuff, I'd probably dig that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on August 20, 2016, 02:47:20 PM
don't forget about Marscape!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on August 20, 2016, 11:27:00 PM
Is Phil on that album?  I didn't think he was.

Marscape was an early project by Robin Lumley and Jack Lancaster, who would later go on to form Brand X, the jazz-fusion band of which Phil Collins was a sometimes-member.  I like the album, actually, but I file it with Brand X, not with "Genesis-related" since it's related but once removed.


Edit: What??  John Goodsall and Phil Collins are on this album!  I had no idea.  Well, I guess it's a good thing I have it filed with Brand X because this is basically a Brand X album.  It's just kinda wacky that it's billed as a Lancaster/Lumley album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on August 21, 2016, 08:19:42 AM


Same with Steve Hackett.  I love his guitar work, but that's about it.  Most of the songs bore me, and I'm rarely impressed by the singers on his albums.  If he did a solo album of just guitar/instrumental stuff, I'd probably dig that.

Agreed.  From what I've heard, he has two stellar solo tunes:

Narnia (Steve Walsh on lead vocals)
Every Day (ridiculous guitar work in this one)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 21, 2016, 10:05:45 AM
Excellent opinions.  Thanks for giving me a few things to ponder.  Kind of sounds like Peter Gabriel might be where I focus for a while. 

BTW, I completely forgot Mike Rutherford had two solo albums before the Mechanics.  Anybody heard those?  They are hard to find but I found the second one on ebay for a nice price so that'll be coming in the mail soon. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on August 21, 2016, 03:56:22 PM
Mike's first album, Smallcreep's Day, is said to be very good.  Not always prog, but good stuff anyway.  I've never been able to find a copy, and I'm not quite interested enough to spend a bunch on ordering and importing one.

I have his second album, Acting Very Strange.  I actually forgot about it until you mentioned it.  It's okay, not great.  Some fun, catchy stuff.  Not very proggy.  Everyone says that Smallcreep's Day is better, but again, I can't confirm that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on August 21, 2016, 06:22:25 PM
Mike's first album, Smallcreep's Day, is said to be very good.  Not always prog, but good stuff anyway.  I've never been able to find a copy, and I'm not quite interested enough to spend a bunch on ordering and importing one.

I have his second album, Acting Very Strange.  I actually forgot about it until you mentioned it.  It's okay, not great.  Some fun, catchy stuff.  Not very proggy.  Everyone says that Smallcreep's Day is better, but again, I can't confirm that.

Thanks for the info.  Smallcreeps is definitely harder to find.  Only copies are going for upwards of 50 bucks.  Acting Very Strange I found for 20 bucks on ebay so I jumped on it because most other copies were 20 bucks more. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on August 22, 2016, 08:13:00 AM
I'm a HUGE Genesis fan, one of my favorite bands of all time (Abacab and Wind and Wuthering are BOTH in my top album list of a any band ever, and the live "In The Cage Medley" is perhaps my favorite live song ever).    So I think I have some insight here:

Point blank:  I do not like the vocal work that Hackett, Banks and Rutherford did outside Genesis.  I don't know why that is, but the vocals on all three of their catalogues (with one exception:  the song Banks did with Fish) are very weak, in my opinion.

I do not mind "poppy" at all, so the first three Phil albums are among my favorites (he lost me when he turned into Phil Ochs or Sting; I don't care for his preachier work).    Essential:  Face Value, Hello I Must Be Going, and No Jacket Required (the pop hits, especially on NJR, can be tough, but the album tracks are STRONG).

I don't think Gabriel has put out a bad album (though everything since US has been spotty).   I think Dave is right about "Passion".   I think Peter straddles the line between "poppy" (or commercial) and progressive (in the true sense of the word) the best of all the members.  Essential:  Security, US, Passion.

Tony should only write lyrics for Phil or Peter to sing.  I know, harsh.  But his attempts to duplicate Phil, Mike and Peter's solo success don't work for me.   Essential:  A Curious Feeling, Sevens, Six...

I'm not a fan of Mike's solo stuff, or Hackett's.  I know, I know, Hackett's a guitar god, but honestly, I see where Banks was coming from for the most part.    Harsh, again, I know, but it's my opinion, and it's not like I think he sucks or anything, it's just that his songs aren't my cup of tea. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 25, 2016, 09:54:53 AM
Verdict:  Smallcreep's Day is definitely the superior Rutherford album.  It's not a total prog fest but it is unique and catchy.  Acting Very Strange is much more mainstream 80s.  Not a bad album at all, but much less Genesis like. 

A while back I bought a couple Mike + Mechanics albums and really couldn't get into them.  I decided to listen to his first two solo albums in order and then the debut Mechanics album.  Wow.  Very different.  It got more mainstream as the albums went on.  I still couldn't get into the Mechanics album.  Especially after listening to Smallcreep's Day.

It's funny because Rutherford is probably my favorite genesis member as far as his contributions to that band tend to be my favorites.  I guess it's rare for people to bat at 1.000
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 25, 2016, 04:47:22 PM
Wow, another thumbs-up for Smallcreep's Day.  I really need to find that album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 25, 2016, 05:27:20 PM
Wow, another thumbs-up for Smallcreep's Day.  I really need to find that album.

It still sounds pretty 80s.  I've only listened to it 1 and 1/2 times so maybe I'm off base but it reminded me of Abacab in the sense that it is still proggy and a bit experimental, definitely has an 80s synth emphasis, but also very catchy. 

Acting Very Strange is a natural progression to more mainstream stuff so as you said you liked that one but didn't think it was great, I think you would definitely dig Smallcreep's Day. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on October 02, 2016, 10:35:25 AM
Another opinion:

I stopped with Collin after Hello, I Must Be Going. But I also have his Big Band album and his R&B album.

Don't have any Banks or Rutherford.  Wait  I do have Banks' Still because Fish is on that one. Bankstatement is supposed to be pretty good and I think I listened to it once or twice but have no memory of what it sounds like.

Gabriel and Hackett take up the bulk of my Genesis solo listening. It's funny, Early Genesis really does nothing for met yet I love the work that Gabriel and Hackett have done solo (especially live)  Just listened to Momentum a few days ago actually.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on October 03, 2016, 06:13:32 AM
Those first three Collins records are on par with any three-album run of any solo artist, ever.   I think they get so maligned because of the singles (especially "You Can't Hurry Love", "One More Night" and "Sussudio".)  NJR is, when you get to the album tracks, STRONG. 

Honestly, I get that Hackett is a guitar god, and certainly he's done some impressive things, but I remember trying to get into his solo stuff back in the late '80's or so when I was really digging in to the entire Genesis family catalogue, and I just couldn't connect with it, I don't know why.

I just wish Phil did a better job on the remasters.  I'm a completest, and there are a LOT of b-sides that got left in the vault and I think that's a shame (though he was one of the members that kept tracks off the Genesis Archives set as well).   I don't get it; it's not like we haven't heard them already. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kotowboy on October 03, 2016, 03:02:50 PM
i didn't mind Genesis but the main thing I noticed about Phil's solo stuff is he puts way too many choruses in his songs.

Dance Into The Light being an obvious example.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Nel on October 03, 2016, 08:01:43 PM
I just wish Phil did a better job on the remasters.  I'm a completest, and there are a LOT of b-sides that got left in the vault and I think that's a shame (though he was one of the members that kept tracks off the Genesis Archives set as well).   I don't get it; it's not like we haven't heard them already.

Same here. I don't get what the point of doing all those rereleases was when everything wasn't being put out. Hell, Going Back's rerelease a compilation of itself with less tracks than the original release. No, Phil, no! That's not how you do that! You put out all the songs, including the ones from the original special edition! You don't take songs off and then fill the bonus disc with a concert no one asked for! Ugh! I only bought the thing to fill out the "Take A Look At Me Now" collector's box I got with the first two rereleases.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 03, 2016, 10:02:40 PM
But you get new pictures of his face.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Nel on October 04, 2016, 12:56:06 AM
Oh yeah, now I get that staring at me any time I take those albums out of the box.  :lol
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Silent Man on October 05, 2016, 08:37:46 AM
Regarding Smallcreep's Day, it's brilliant. I have the CD and the LP as well. It's very moody, as that 'Looking_slighty_melancholic_out_of_the_the_window' type of thing (if you know what I mean). Simon Phillips on drums, Anthony Phillips on keys. It says, Mike on guitars & basses, but I definately can hear some Anthony Phillips strumming as well. Some of the tracks have that distinct guitar tone that I love from the Genesis album '...And Then There Were Three..' (which is also very moody). I always admired Mike's guitar & bass work, he knows how to dial in a very distinct tone, as in 'We Can't Dance' f.ex.

'Acting Very Strange' is totally different. Mike does the vocals himself, and that's a TOTAL disaster.

Regarding Steve Hackett, I totally disagree with the earlier posts. First, his guitar playing is excellent. Top notch. Second, most of the singing is done by himself. He doesn't have a BIG voice (range, volume), he just uses it well. These songs with his vocal harmonies together with his electric /classical guitars is the essential Hackett. Also Randy Crawford and Richie Havens made some very emotional contributions on 'Please Don't Touch!', a CD I have great memories about.

I'd fully recommend some of his later offerings, they inspired me to play a lot of his older stuff as well:

'Beyond The Shrouded Horizon'
'Out Of The Tunnel's Mouth'
'To Watch The Storms'
'Wolflight'

It's not easy stuff, it's prog. But once you get into his universe, there is so much to find.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on October 05, 2016, 10:03:22 AM
But you get new pictures of his face.

I kinda think he looks better now, honestly.  I like the new Face Value cover much more than the original. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 05, 2016, 06:49:31 PM
See?  Totally worth the money.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 06, 2016, 06:51:15 PM


Regarding Steve Hackett, I totally disagree with the earlier posts. First, his guitar playing is excellent. Top notch. Second, most of the singing is done by himself. He doesn't have a BIG voice (range, volume), he just uses it well. These songs with his vocal harmonies together with his electric /classical guitars is the essential Hackett. Also Randy Crawford and Richie Havens made some very emotional contributions on 'Please Don't Touch!', a CD I have great memories about.

I'd fully recommend some of his later offerings, they inspired me to play a lot of his older stuff as well:

'Beyond The Shrouded Horizon'
'Out Of The Tunnel's Mouth'
'To Watch The Storms'
'Wolflight'

It's not easy stuff, it's prog. But once you get into his universe, there is so much to find.

I'll take that into consideration.  I kinda figure that Hackett's music will click with me more at some point.  Usually that's how it is with prog.  I actually just listened to his first album again yesterday and my opinion remains the same.  Good stuff but I need to be in the right mood and I rarely am.  It's good enough to keep me wanting to seek out more though.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Silent Man on October 07, 2016, 01:12:31 AM


Regarding Steve Hackett, I totally disagree with the earlier posts. First, his guitar playing is excellent. Top notch. Second, most of the singing is done by himself. He doesn't have a BIG voice (range, volume), he just uses it well. These songs with his vocal harmonies together with his electric /classical guitars is the essential Hackett. Also Randy Crawford and Richie Havens made some very emotional contributions on 'Please Don't Touch!', a CD I have great memories about.

I'd fully recommend some of his later offerings, they inspired me to play a lot of his older stuff as well:

'Beyond The Shrouded Horizon'
'Out Of The Tunnel's Mouth'
'To Watch The Storms'
'Wolflight'

It's not easy stuff, it's prog. But once you get into his universe, there is so much to find.

I'll take that into consideration.  I kinda figure that Hackett's music will click with me more at some point.  Usually that's how it is with prog.  I actually just listened to his first album again yesterday and my opinion remains the same.  Good stuff but I need to be in the right mood and I rarely am.  It's good enough to keep me wanting to seek out more though.

I'm with you there, I had the same feeling from time to time with his music. Maybe too much sort of circus sounds there, or the parts were not that interesting. The later albums have a more refined way of song writing, and better sonically too. These last 4 albums have been playing in my house for a month or two, and they're still awesome. I admit he has crazy ideas in the way he puts the songs together - but that's Hackett! He is quite his own and you can't compare him to anyone.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on October 12, 2016, 04:20:52 PM
I love most of Hackett's music but I can see why  people can't get into him though.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PROGdrummer on November 21, 2016, 09:27:20 PM
I just listened to Voyage of the Acolyte for the first time, and I'm simply in awe. I absolutely love that dreamy, ethereal sounding vibe in Genesis music (Opeth have captured that vibe perfectly as well; see Hours of Wealth).  And besides that, the more lively bits have an aggressive, energetic edge to them that would have beefed up Genesis' sound if they let him go all out like that, pushing them into almost a "70's metal" sound.

It's a shame that his contributions werent more appreciated during his time with Genesis, because I would have loved to hear a song like "Star of Sirius" on an album like Wind and Wuthering, more of that vibe with Collin's vocals. I'm going to have to dig deeper into Hackett's solo material for sure. Wow wow wow.  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on November 22, 2016, 02:19:05 AM
Wow there's a Genesis thread here  :o

I think both Smallcreep's Day and Voyage Of The Acolyte are Genesis albums that aren't labeled Genesis albums. The musical style of SCD fits very well between ATTW3 and Duke, while VOTA has that melancholy, lyrical, yet very proggy with a lot of instrumental rollercoasters (I hope you get what I mean).
I didn't find it hard to find, at least on vinyl. In the last 2 weeks alone I must have seen it at least 3 or 4 times in record stores, markets etc., for less than 8.

Concerning the voices, I partly agree. Collins and Gabriel are both strong singers with unique voices, the others aren't. And unfortunately, neither are a lot of singers chosen by them to sing on their records. BUT, Hackett managed to use his voice pretty well on the last albums. Also I think, Wolflight is one of his strongest albums yet.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 11, 2016, 09:13:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdEPgB2yizw&feature=share

Anybody seen this? 

Mike + the Mechanics reference in an episode of Portlandia. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on December 12, 2016, 08:21:19 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdEPgB2yizw&feature=share

Anybody seen this? 

Mike + the Mechanics reference in an episode of Portlandia.

I think I'm more surprised that someone watches Portlandia than I am that they reference M+TM.   ;)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 11, 2017, 07:07:46 PM
Never watched it in my life.  Friend linked me to it. 



So anyone ever check out The Musical Box tribute band?  They pretty much recreate a Genesis show from the mid 70s identically.  Gonna check them out next month.  The guy that portrays Peter Gabriel sounds pretty spot on. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on January 11, 2017, 07:24:07 PM
Never watched it in my life.  Friend linked me to it. 



So anyone ever check out The Musical Box tribute band?  They pretty much recreate a Genesis show from the mid 70s identically.  Gonna check them out next month.  The guy that portrays Peter Gabriel sounds pretty spot on.

They've been touring for what feels like a decade or more now. I remember hearing about them back when I was first getting into prog in the mid 00's, and had thought about trying to go see them if they ever came close to me.

What Genesis tour are they doing these days? I've always wanted to catch their Lamb tour, especially since they used official film slides in their stage presentation, and a bunch of other stage props inspired by, or perhaps even directly from the original Lamb tour!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 11, 2017, 08:04:00 PM
Current one is Selling England by the Pound.  In select dates they are also doing "The Black Show."  I had no idea what this was so I looked it up and apparently when they took the show to the states, they wanted to scale it back for cost purposes.  They decided not just to make it more sparse, but to amp up the florescent makeup and black lights and do large portions of the show in darkness with just their glowing bodies to draw your attention. 

Sounds like The Musical Box doesn't do that show much so I bought tickets to that even though, like you said, the band uses actual slides from the Genesis shows and I'd like to see that too. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on January 12, 2017, 06:48:07 AM
I just saw them for the first time about six months ago, in a "Black Show" presentation.  They're very good, and it's a gas to hear "Supper's Ready".    What I would do if I was you (and in all fairness, this was recommended to me by a massive Genesis fan and noted collector, one who even contributed materials for the recent box sets) is watch the Shepperton Studios film on that box set (the 5.1 sets that came out a couple years ago). 

I've heard critiques about the singer not "sounding" like Peter, but I found that he was close enough to help create the illusion.  He is WEIRD, though.  He does all the mannerisms, and all the tics, and all the intros, and it's jarring to watch (especially up close).  This is not like watching Dream Theater or the current Genesis in stadium mode.  The drummer when I saw them was AWESOME, the "Mike Rutherford" was AWESOME, the "Steve" was very good, and the "Tony" was good, but fucked up both the intro to Firth of Fifth and... I can't remember the other, but it was a "crescendo" moment and it was sort of anticlimactic to hear a muff.

For me, it's worth seeing, and I would go see it again, in a heartbeat, but for me, I probably won't until the Lamb show comes around again. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on January 13, 2017, 04:47:43 PM
Are there any Genesis tributes that do sets from tours after Gabriel left?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: red barchetta on January 13, 2017, 08:08:09 PM
The musical box is a band from Montreal.  I saw them a couple of times and they are really good.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 14, 2017, 09:43:35 AM
Musical Box toured once with the Trick of the Tail setlist and stage show.  I would kill to see that.

There are several other tribute acts and in fact, there was a Genesis Fan Festival just announced in Duluth, MN with several tribute acts and Brand X performing.  So far, ticket sales are slow and they have mentioned they might have to postpone the event.  I'm going to try to go even though Duluth is almost in Canada but I've never been to Lake Superior and there is a cool national park nearby among other stuff so it might be worth it.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/north-american-genesis-fan-festival-2017-music#/
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on January 24, 2017, 05:16:18 PM
Musical Box toured once with the Trick of the Tail setlist and stage show.  I would kill to see that.

There are several other tribute acts and in fact, there was a Genesis Fan Festival just announced in Duluth, MN with several tribute acts and Brand X performing.  So far, ticket sales are slow and they have mentioned they might have to postpone the event.  I'm going to try to go even though Duluth is almost in Canada but I've never been to Lake Superior and there is a cool national park nearby among other stuff so it might be worth it.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/north-american-genesis-fan-festival-2017-music#/

I'd be up for a Trick Of The Tail set or any other ones up to about 1984.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on February 20, 2017, 01:37:12 PM
oops. sorry for the 2nd bump, but this topic is more recent/relevant.

For those who didn't see this, a very cool Illustrated video of Supper's Ready was made recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4HfFwVy-h0
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on February 25, 2017, 12:48:52 PM
Been on a middle-era Genesis binge this past week or so. A lot of it stemmed from randomly putting on ...And Then There Were Three... earlier this week and posting about it in the Big Big Train Facebook group (which generated a LOT of discussion, civil discussion at that!), and so, I've also been spinning the two albums prior to that as well.

While at work, I've had my 9-song track list of A Trick Of The Tail, where I discovered on YouTube one night that someone had compiled all the various versions of "It's Yourself" (I think 3 or 4 different releases of the song) and made a complete version, without the fade-out ending. This may be old news to some, but I had no idea the original ending to "It's Yourself" had the opening keyboard melody from "Mad Man Moon", which makes it the PERFECT segue into that song. This got me thinking about how GENIUS this album is with shared/repeated/reprised melodies and motifs. You've got MMM's opening melody at the end of IY, which is reprised later on in "Los Endos", which has reprises from "Dance On A Volcano" and "Squonk", which itself also features a melody from "Dance On A Volcano" at 5:23. This album is just full of reused melodies and motifs that it almost feels like a concept album. I'm sure a lot of these ideas were from Tony Banks, but I'm glad they all made it (well, not really in the case of "It's Yourself", but thanks to technology, we can now re-insert it into the album). Discovering the real ending to IY has reinvigorated my love for this album, even though I've always ranked it and Wind & Wuthering very highly in my ranking of Genesis albums.

They managed to a similar thing once again with W&W, but I don't think they did it to such an extent. You've got parts of "One For The Vine" featured in the frantic instrumental "Wot Gorilla?", and some reprisals in "...In That Quiet Earth", but other than that, it's not as prominent. I've always wondered if early Dream Theater had been at all influenced by this era of Genesis when it came to them reusing riffs and melodies in IAW and Awake.

Anyways, I just wanted to gush about ATOTT as I have been spinning it at work this past week, as well as W&W at home, and ATTWT in my car. I know a lot of Genesis fans don't rank ATTWT highly, but I've been coming around to enjoying it more and more as I've been re-listening to it this past week. It's an impressive 3-album run for sure, and a great transitional period for the band. They rarely faltered on these 3 albums as they slowly made their way into 80's synth-pop-rock stardom, and for having to follow up some of their best work with Peter Gabriel, these albums were spectacular efforts.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: RoeDent on February 25, 2017, 01:03:19 PM
Tonight, Tonight, Tonight happened to show up on the radio a few weeks ago, and I fell in love with it instantly.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on February 25, 2017, 01:10:48 PM
Maybe it's because I was used to the single version, which I heard a million times in the 80s before hearing the album version, but I think it is the far superior version.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on February 25, 2017, 07:27:50 PM
I put "It's Yourself" in between what were originally Side 1 and Side 2 of Trick of the Tail on my iPod.  That's kinda my default place to stash extra tracks.  It's always weird getting to the end of the album and then hearing more.

Speaking of middle-era Genesis, I did the same with "Match of the Day" and "Inside and Out" and added them to Wind & Wuthering, since those tunes were from the W&W sessions.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on February 25, 2017, 09:25:35 PM
I put "It's Yourself" in between what were originally Side 1 and Side 2 of Trick of the Tail on my iPod.  That's kinda my default place to stash extra tracks.  It's always weird getting to the end of the album and then hearing more.

Here's the YouTube video I first heard the full version of "It's Yourself". Like you, I had originally placed that song AFTER "Mad Man Moon", in between the album's two sides, but after hearing the full, unfaded ending, I knew I had to place it before "Mad Man Moon".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgNjiU4PogI


Speaking of middle-era Genesis, I did the same with "Match of the Day" and "Inside and Out" and added them to Wind & Wuthering, since those tunes were from the W&W sessions.

My personal version of W&W incorporates all 3 tracks from that EP, making the album an hour and four minutes long, essentially a double at that point:
Side 1 - Eleventh Earl Of Mar, One For The Vine
Side 2 - Your Own Special Way, Wot Gorilla?, Inside And Out
Side 3 - All In A Mouse's Night, Pigeons, Blood On The Rooftops
Side 4 - Match Of The Day, Unquiet Slumbers For The Sleepers...In That Quiet Earth, Afterglow

It's got a nice flow to it, I think, especially hearing IAO after the frantic instrumental WG. Putting IAO in the first half of the album meant putting the other two in the second half, to balance it out, so I left AIAMN to open the second half, and put the other animal-related tune right after it cuz why not? Oddly enough, "Pigeons" features the words "roof" and "rooftops" in its lyrics, so it seemed fitting to place it between AIAMN and BOTR. This left MOTD, so it got stuck before the closing trio of tracks. Over-all, I've been very happy with this arrangement for over a decade now, and has been the only way I listen to the album

Likewise, every other album after these two that feature non-album tracks (which is every album but the self-titled) have been re-arranged by myself to include those left-over tracks, so whenever I go to listen to Genesis, I get every song from those sessions on any given album.

Unfortunately, I still haven't pin-pointed a decent spot to place "Twilight Alehouse" or "Happy The Man". Any suggestions?

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on February 25, 2017, 09:41:32 PM
I put "It's Yourself" in between what were originally Side 1 and Side 2 of Trick of the Tail on my iPod.  That's kinda my default place to stash extra tracks.  It's always weird getting to the end of the album and then hearing more.

Here's the YouTube video I first heard the full version of "It's Yourself". Like you, I had originally placed that song AFTER "Mad Man Moon", in between the album's two sides, but after hearing the full, unfaded ending, I knew I had to place it before "Mad Man Moon".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgNjiU4PogI

Wow, that was cool!  I've never heard that extended ending before.  The songs do go very nicely together.  I would even try to cut out more dead air between the two tracks, though it sounds good now.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on February 26, 2017, 07:16:15 PM
I put "It's Yourself" in between what were originally Side 1 and Side 2 of Trick of the Tail on my iPod.  That's kinda my default place to stash extra tracks.  It's always weird getting to the end of the album and then hearing more.

Here's the YouTube video I first heard the full version of "It's Yourself". Like you, I had originally placed that song AFTER "Mad Man Moon", in between the album's two sides, but after hearing the full, unfaded ending, I knew I had to place it before "Mad Man Moon".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgNjiU4PogI

Wow, that was cool!  I've never heard that extended ending before.  The songs do go very nicely together.  I would even try to cut out more dead air between the two tracks, though it sounds good now.

Me either, until a week ago! Hard to believe I've never gotten around to finding out about it until recently. Having that little MMM-tag at the end further solidifies an already near-perfect album for me.

The whole ordeal has reinvigorated my love for Genesis and I have been spinning them a lot over the last week or two.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Klaus Bergmaier on February 27, 2017, 08:55:06 AM
My favourite Genesis track by far is Abacab. I know it doesn't have a lot to do with the kind of prog you all (and me too) know and love.I also adore what the bass guitar does on No Reply At All.
Got all their albums plus all solo albums of all members, prefer the Phil era, saw them live in 1988.
My favourite members of theirs is Mike Rutherford.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on February 27, 2017, 10:06:05 AM
My favourite Genesis track by far is Abacab. I know it doesn't have a lot to do with the kind of prog you all (and me too) know and love.I also adore what the bass guitar does on No Reply At All.
Got all their albums plus all solo albums of all members, prefer the Phil era, saw them live in 1988.
My favourite members of theirs is Mike Rutherford.

I've long argued that Abacab is one of their most progressive albums.   No two songs sound alike.  Mix of longer, progressive works and shorter eclectic works.  Songs like "Me and Sarah Jane", that sound like poppy nonsense, but are very creative in terms of structure (five sections, none of which repeat), increased use of electronic drums (progressive for the time), horns on one track, etc. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on February 27, 2017, 10:37:50 AM
The problem with Abacab is, at least for me, it isn't of consistent quality. Abacab, Dodo/Lurker, Me And Sarah Jane are great, No Reply and Man On The Corner are good, the rest is solid but nothing to write home about and then there's Who Dunnit  :omg:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on February 27, 2017, 10:54:19 AM
The problem with Abacab is, at least for me, it isn't of consistent quality. Abacab, Dodo/Lurker, Me And Sarah Jane are great, No Reply and Man On The Corner are good, the rest is solid but nothing to write home about and then there's Who Dunnit  :omg:

Well, quality is subjective; when you're putting nine songs and all are radically different, the thought that all nine would resonate with each person equally is not really to be expected. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on February 27, 2017, 11:36:53 AM
Yes, quality is subjective, that's why I wrote that for me half of the songs aren't that good and one is completely shit. Don't care that they're different if they aren't good.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on February 27, 2017, 12:37:26 PM
For some, time and perspective is a huge factor in enjoying an album, and Abacab is one such album for me. Other than their first and last albums, every other album but Abacab was fairly enjoyable for me when I first got into the broader Genesis catalog. Every other album had their hits and misses with me, but were at least GOOD, but when Abacab came along, I really disliked it. Maybe only 3 or 4 of the 9 songs were enjoyable for me at the time, and even the 3x3 B-Sides weren't that great.

It wasn't until a couple years after I got into Genesis, when I started discovering their B-Sides and non-album tracks and starting making my personal re-trackings of songs for albums/sessions that I started to really dive into what made Abacab tick (since song order was pretty important for me in terms of adding those 5 leftover tracks back in). Given a couple more years with it, I finally grew to appreciate what the band were trying to do with everything on this album, even "Who Dunnit?", which is REALLY weird, but coming from a purely experimental standpoint, the song has some unique charms to it that really make it stand out against pretty much anything else the band had and would do.

Side 1 of the original album is REALLY strong, with the rocking title track, the super-catchy "No Reply At All" with those amazing horns, the sublime "Me And Sarah Jane" (a standout track), and the punchy and syncopated "Keep It Dark" (which uses 6/4 in interesting ways with it's off-beat rhythms). Side 2 gets REALLY weird, but it still sounds interesting to my ears, even now.

For anyone who cares, here's how my personal Abacan Complete track list goes, if anyone wanted to try it out. I took inspiration from both the final album and the "Abacab Complete" bootlegs out there, which had some good ideas, but I didn't like the flow, and I wanted to create a faux-double-vinyl track list:
Side 1 - Abacab, No Reply At All, You Might Recall
Side 2 - Me And Sarah Jane, Keep It Dark, Me And Virgil
Side 3 - Naminanu/Dodo/Lurker/Submarine, Who Dunnit?
Side 4 - Man On The Corner, Paperlate, Like It Or Not, Another Record

I spread out the 5 B-Sides across the four sides/parts of my imaginary double vinyl, with 1 on each (except the whole suite on side 3), and it fills out the album quite well. The "Naminanu/Dodo/Lurker/Submarine" suite is pretty amazing, and I wish they had released it that way. It makes for a far more interesting near-16-minute adventure of 80's Genesis, and I like it more than, say, "Home By The Sea". Hearing all of these songs together make for a great look into what the band was feeling and thinking at the time, with all of their varied influences coming together. At first glance, it really is just a cobbled together mess of different-sounding songs, but when I realized how they were all crafted together, how the performances and forms and instruments were handled, things stood out to me differently than before, and my appreciate for 1981 Genesis grew. I'd even go so far as to say I enjoy this album, original or even my expanded one, more than their self-titled follow-up.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on March 04, 2017, 07:39:22 PM
Any opinions on the remasters?  I finally got the last Collins era remaster and I remember hearing people say there was too much low end.  I think they sound great.  There are a few of the original releases I never heard but comparatively I think the additional low end really makes the music sound better.  One exception would be Live: The Way We Walk that I think the mix is pretty bad on the remasters.  The other instruments are practically drowned out. 

I never have heard any of the Peter Gabriel remasters, though.  I'd be interested to hear if they are much the same.

Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mosh on March 04, 2017, 07:54:40 PM
I think the Peter Gabriel remasters sound pretty good, but it was hard for them to be worse than the original CDs.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on March 04, 2017, 09:10:49 PM
The Lamb was when they the sound quality of their albums made the big leap forward, and call me crazy, but the slight flaws on the earlier albums are part of their charm.  Remasters sometimes suck the charm right out of the original mixes.  Not always, of course. Sometimes they really are for the better, but not always.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: RoeDent on March 05, 2017, 08:19:09 AM
I've ordered Duke, which should hopefully be here sometime in the coming week. Looking forward to hearing it. Interesting idea of writing an epic and spreading it throughout the album. Shows they still had the prog in them, even after Gabriel and Hackett left.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on March 05, 2017, 09:29:18 AM
I've ordered Duke, which should hopefully be here sometime in the coming week. Looking forward to hearing it. Interesting idea of writing an epic and spreading it throughout the album. Shows they still had the prog in them, even after Gabriel and Hackett left.

I think the original idea was for them to have the epic as one piece but were worried it would be compared to Supper's Ready so they decided to spread it out.  I really would love to hear it all as one piece. 

You're gonna love Duke, though.  Great album. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on March 05, 2017, 09:31:27 AM
Agree. Collins is absolutely on fire on Duke!!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 05, 2017, 11:01:29 AM
Of the post-Hackett albums, Duke is easily my favorite, though I've warmed up to ATTWT and Abacab quite a lot over the years, and for some reason, IT would rank just behind Duke for me - sure it's not overtly proggy, but it's some damn good pop-rock with great synth and keyboard work from Banks, and a ton of catchiness throughout.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on March 05, 2017, 11:45:28 AM
Duke is their best post-Hackett album, yeah. Behind The Lines is a perfect and bombastic album opener.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 05, 2017, 11:48:55 AM
The combination of Behind The Lines and Duchess is just perfection.  :metal
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: RoeDent on March 05, 2017, 12:16:58 PM
I'm actually tempted to pick up Invisible Touch soonish as well, mainly down to my current obsession (as pointed out above) with Tonight Tonight Tonight.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on March 05, 2017, 12:29:52 PM
Invisible Touch is a great album.  This is what led me down the Genesis rabbit hole.  I really only got it because it was cheap on Amazon and came with a bonus DVD with the videos.  I loved Land of Confusion as a kid, mainly for the video, but after hearing Disturbed cover it I wanted to go back and listen to the original.  I never liked poppy stuff all that much but I kept going back and listening to IT on repeat.  Just a great album in every aspect. 

Of course, the highlight for me is when they still touch on prog.  Domino is a killer song.  10 minutes, still has pop elements and haunting melodies, but probably a bit tough to swallow for the mainstream folk.  The lyrics are just brutal.  It touches on how forgettable tragedies are and how absurd it is we can just move on after seeing them. 

Now you never did see such a terrible thing
As was seen last night on T.V.
Maybe if we're lucky, they will show it again
Such a terrible thing to see
There's nothing you can do when you're the next in line
You've got to go domino.

The fact that this is done during such an upbeat section of the song really drives home how society reacts.  Simply amazing.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 05, 2017, 12:55:24 PM
Invisible Touch is good, if you accept that it's pop-Genesis. I could do without the title track and In Too Deep but I really love the rest.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 05, 2017, 01:29:55 PM
Ranking the Post-Hackett albums:
Duke
Invisible Touch
...And Then There Were Three...
Abacab
We Can't Dance
Genesis / Calling All Stations

I almost wanted to rank CAS above the self-titled album, but the frequency in which I listen to both these days is about the same, and I probably like about the same amount of each album, percentage-wise, with WCD just slightly above both (and while they're good, WCD does have one too many slow/ballad songs).

Also, I'm thinking, after the Dream Theater Survivor is over, that I would do a Genesis Survivor again. I'm fairly certain I ran the last one, but that was about 5 years ago, so I wouldn't mind bringing it back, especially being the 10th anniversary of the last remasters that came out. I've been on a HUGE Genesis kick lately and would enjoy doing a survivor of their music again. Would anyone here, who perhaps is not familiar with the Polls/Survivor side of this forum, be interested in a Genesis Survivor? It won't launch til around May, so this is a HUGE early head's up, but I just wanted to see if there'd be interest here.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on March 05, 2017, 01:49:15 PM
When I got into Genesis, I HATED the pop stuff they did. But over the last 1,5-2 years I got into it more and more and now I LOVE Phil's solo stuff, I LOVE Duke and ATTWT, WCD, but I never got into IT. The sounds are just TOO 80s for me, especially the drums. Maybe one day I will get into it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 05, 2017, 04:59:58 PM
I've ordered Duke, which should hopefully be here sometime in the coming week. Looking forward to hearing it. Interesting idea of writing an epic and spreading it throughout the album. Shows they still had the prog in them, even after Gabriel and Hackett left.

I think the original idea was for them to have the epic as one piece but were worried it would be compared to Supper's Ready so they decided to spread it out.  I really would love to hear it all as one piece. 

Correct.  The original Duke suite consisted of:

Behind the Lines
Duchess
Guide Vocal
Turn It On Again
Duke's Travels
Duke's End

There are live bootlegs from that tour only where the play the whole suite as one.  Try to find The Lyceum Ballroom May 7, 1980.

But you're also right that they didn't want to do the same thing as with Supper's Ready and have it be the epic on one side and the rest of the songs on the other side (this was in the days of vinyl, obviously) so it opens and closes the album, and Turn It On Again starts Side Two.  The other songs are arranged in such a way that you could form a larger narrative if you wanted. 

You're gonna love Duke, though.  Great album. 

Also correct.  My favorite of all.  :tup
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on March 05, 2017, 08:19:17 PM
Found it! 

https://youtu.be/4ZnP6eq9kcM?t=2231
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 05, 2017, 08:40:50 PM
Excellent! :tup  Pro-shot video and everything, even if the transfer isn't great.  I've only ever heard the boots, never seen footage.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: RoeDent on March 07, 2017, 01:11:22 PM
Yet another example of Genesis generously filling their vinyl albums, Duke is a whopping 55 minutes long. And I thought SEBTP was a long single-vinyl album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 07, 2017, 03:53:56 PM
Yet another example of Genesis generously filling their vinyl albums, Duke is a whopping 55 minutes long. And I thought SEBTP was a long single-vinyl album.

Foxtrot reached 51 minutes, while SEBTP went further with nearly 54. Both Trick and Wind also totaled about 51 minutes, while ATTWT also nearly reached 54. They made some LONG single vinyl albums. What puzzles me is that while Duke was just over 55 minutes, Abacab was stripped back to 47:10, their shortest album since Nursery Cryme, and then their next two were around 46 minutes as well. It's weird because Abacab had FIVE non-album tracks, and Invisible Touch has 3, so they definitely had more than enough music for 53-54 minutes for an album, but I guess their pop-leanings meant they wanted to scale back their albums a bit, perhaps in an attempt to make them all more accessible (even though their self-titled album had the 10 minute "Home By The Sea" duo, and IT had TTT and Domino).

Of course, that all changed when WCD came out and it was 71 minutes long. :lol

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: RoeDent on March 08, 2017, 07:30:16 AM
Why isn't 80s Genesis called progressive pop? Because that's what it is. The ambition of the full-on prog days never left them.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 08, 2017, 08:29:07 AM
That's not a bad term for it, but for "progressive pop" to work as a genre label, there would have to be enough bands out there with similar characteristics for the genre to exist in the first place.  In the 80's, you might have found maybe half a dozen bands with the combination of chops, ambition, and compositional skill to really be seen as prog, and that's only after you bought the album based on their radio/MTV hits because that's all anyone ever heard.

I'm always happy to find album tracks where the band shows off a bit and goes deep, but that alone doesn't push them into prog-anything for me.  I'll respect them more as musicians, but if the vast majority of their work is firmly in the pop genre, then pop they are.  Genesis never completely lost the prog, but for us to even be aware of that, we had to know first that they came from prog.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: RoeDent on March 10, 2017, 01:31:56 PM
Duke arrived today. Listening now, and Duke's Travels is Frost* through and through. Several parts remind me of Hyperventilate, and the entire thing is reminiscent of Nice Day For It.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 10, 2017, 02:33:35 PM
I really have to check out Frost one of these days.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on March 10, 2017, 05:25:50 PM
Duke arrived today. Listening now, and Duke's Travels is Frost* through and through. Several parts remind me of Hyperventilate, and the entire thing is reminiscent of Nice Day For It.

I think you've got that backwards, chief. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 10, 2017, 06:44:47 PM
Duke arrived today. Listening now, and Duke's Travels is Frost* through and through. Several parts remind me of Hyperventilate, and the entire thing is reminiscent of Nice Day For It.

I think you've got that backwards, chief. :biggrin:

LOL Must be a time traveler...but I get the meaning. Frost* have had some interesting sounds and influences, though I doubt Jem would say he had Genesis in mind.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on March 11, 2017, 10:00:40 AM
Duke arrived today. Listening now, and Duke's Travels is Frost* through and through. Several parts remind me of Hyperventilate, and the entire thing is reminiscent of Nice Day For It.

I think you've got that backwards, chief. :biggrin:

LOL Must be a time traveler...but I get the meaning. Frost* have had some interesting sounds and influences, though I doubt Jem would say he had Genesis in mind.

-Marc.

Why not? It's Neo-Progressive Rock.. a subgenre that was started by bands that basically wanted to sound like Genesis :D
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on March 11, 2017, 10:03:51 AM
It's Neo-Progressive Rock.. a subgenre that was started by Marillion, who basically wanted to sound like Genesis :D

There, that's better.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: RoeDent on March 11, 2017, 11:24:30 AM
Duke arrived today. Listening now, and Duke's Travels is Frost* through and through. Several parts remind me of Hyperventilate, and the entire thing is reminiscent of Nice Day For It.

I think you've got that backwards, chief. :biggrin:

I am fully aware of that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 11, 2017, 03:48:00 PM
It's Neo-Progressive Rock.. a subgenre that was started by Marillion, who basically wanted to sound like Genesis :D

There, that's better.

Very true! :lol Well...started by Marillion, but maintained by IQ. I just always thought that Frost* was too modern to be "Neo-Prog", which I associate with a very specific 80's/90's prog sound that is highly influenced by Gabriel-era Genesis, and while a band like Marillion started out like that, bands like IQ have been sailing that ship for ages now, but I never really felt like Frost* was directly in that subgenre - more of a tangent to it, really.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on March 12, 2017, 06:54:37 AM
It's Neo-Progressive Rock.. a subgenre that was started by Marillion, who basically wanted to sound like Genesis :D

There, that's better.

Very true! :lol Well...started by Marillion, but maintained by IQ. I just always thought that Frost* was too modern to be "Neo-Prog", which I associate with a very specific 80's/90's prog sound that is highly influenced by Gabriel-era Genesis, and while a band like Marillion started out like that, bands like IQ have been sailing that ship for ages now, but I never really felt like Frost* was directly in that subgenre - more of a tangent to it, really.

-Marc.

Why just Marillion? IQ's Debut album came out the same year as Marillions, and I personally like it better than the first Marillion Albums...
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mosh on March 12, 2017, 04:04:39 PM
Why wouldn't Jem be influenced by Genesis? Don't know much about the guy other than his music which sounds pretty heavily Genesis inspired to me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 12, 2017, 06:12:06 PM
*Takes foot, inserts into mouth* I take back everything I said about Frost*/Jem not having Genesis influences. Forgive me as I have not listened to any Frost* in quite some time, so their music is a bit lost on me at the moment as I have been knee deep in anything from Neal Morse, Queen, 80's Genesis, and random classical music.

After one search on Google, this interview from 2006 (https://ytsejam.com/2006/07/interview-frostaes-jem-godfrey/) turned up the following:

Quote
TH: Who are some of your actual musical influences?

JG: Genesis would be the first and foremost; with Tony Banks being such a huge influence on me when I was growing up. Being this budding keyboard player, I wanted to be him so badly, so I even copied his facial expressions. I was very influenced by their middle period, "The Wind & the Wuthering" [sic] and even "Duke," which I think is very underrated as a prog record. They were my first passion. From there, Rush were a very strong influence on me because of their clever use of keyboards and guitars against the melodies; tracks like "Tom Sawyer" were kind of these amazing bits of music as I was concerned. Another band I liked was called It Bites, so it a pretty narrow mix of bands because their output was so immense, it was like hearing a new band every album.

TH: Did you have any formal musical training or anything like that?

JG: No, but then again, I am self taught; learning Tony Banks keyboard solos, learning things like "Cinema Show" and "The Cage" when I was ten, I would spend my summer vacations sitting down with an album or video learning how to play all these keyboard solos, and still after three years later I couldn't read a note of music (laughing) but I could play all over the place on the piano, which really freaked my music teacher out.

So, there ya go, even definitive proof that Jem was influenced specifically by Duke, more or less, as he states that it's a very underrated prog record.

I guess I need to go back and spin some Frost* this coming week (as I continue my digestion of 80's Genesis - Abacab has REALLY grown on me this past week or so).

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mosh on March 12, 2017, 06:56:37 PM
Yea I was also going to say middle period Genesis (late 70s/early 80s) rather than the Peter Gabriel stuff. Which sets him apart from all the other proggers trying to copy Supper's Ready.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on March 12, 2017, 10:20:25 PM
It's Neo-Progressive Rock.. a subgenre that was started by Marillion, who basically wanted to sound like Genesis :D

There, that's better.

Very true! :lol Well...started by Marillion, but maintained by IQ. I just always thought that Frost* was too modern to be "Neo-Prog", which I associate with a very specific 80's/90's prog sound that is highly influenced by Gabriel-era Genesis, and while a band like Marillion started out like that, bands like IQ have been sailing that ship for ages now, but I never really felt like Frost* was directly in that subgenre - more of a tangent to it, really.

-Marc.

Why just Marillion? IQ's Debut album came out the same year as Marillions, and I personally like it better than the first Marillion Albums...

Not only that, but I think IQ's debut album sounds far more like a Gabriel-Genesis clone that Marillion's debut does.   

And I don't mean that in a bad way.   They are both really good albums....and yes, I agree that Tales from the Lush Attic is better than Script imho.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 21, 2017, 01:28:06 PM
Unfortunately, I still haven't pin-pointed a decent spot to place "Twilight Alehouse" or "Happy The Man". Any suggestions?

-Marc.

Well, after a few weeks of listening to latter day Genesis, I've gone back in time and begun obsessively spinning early Genesis. This past week or so has been their first four albums, and I've listened to each one in my car at least once fully, and then NC and Foxtrot at home and at work, going back and forth between the two. I've actually settled on a simple track list expansion for Nursery Cryme, which brings the album up to about 50:30 or so after the inclusion of "Twilight Alehouse" and "Happy The Man", and if it were a vinyl, that means Side 1 would be tracks 1-4, ending with "Seven Stones", and side 2 would open with "Twilight Alehouse", which makes for a romp of a side-opener, followed by "Happy The Man", which creates a weird trilogy of H-titled songs. Surprisingly, both songs fit the feel of the album really well, despite being recorded afterwards.

Anyways, as I said, I've been listening to Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot a lot lately, so I want to put out the question to everyone here:
Nursery Cryme OR Foxtrot?

I know a lot of folks will probably pick the latter, but I've got to say, NC has been growing on me more than ever in the last week or two that I've been spinning it. The epics are just tremendous pieces, and the shorter ones are charming little works that are fun and speak to the band's wit and silliness - they didn't take their music TOO seriously, which makes it a bit more fun than some other bands of the time.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 21, 2017, 02:13:19 PM
When I first got into Genesis in the late 70's, they had just released ...and then there were three... Genesis was still only just picking up steam in the U.S., and to that end, Charisma re-released Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot together as a double LP.

(https://imgur.com/aJfcZrr.jpg)

Didn't include the original cover art or lyrics, but there were some liner notes and apparently all musician credits, so that was cool.  Eventually, I replaced them with imports so they would "open up".  Cheapo American re-releases of these albums were just a regular jacket and blank sleeve.  If an album originally opened up, I always had to have that version.  Original album art, liner notes, musician credits, lyrics... I want it all.

Anyway, these two albums are probably the most similar to each other of any two from the Genesis catalog, so between that and how I first experienced them, they're practically two halves of a double album in my mind.  And of course, they're the first two albums by what would become the classic five-piece lineup.

I really can't choose a favorite between the two.  Nursery Cryme was amazing for the premiere album from the new lineup.  The songs on Foxtrot are a bit more sophisticated, but "The Musical Box", "The Retun Of The Giant Hogweed", and "The Fountain Of Salmacis" are very impressive, and I love "Harold The Barrel" (especially the surprise ending!)  It depends on the mood.  Nursery Cryme is a bit lighter, Foxtrot is for getting a little more heavy duty.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on March 21, 2017, 04:28:09 PM
I agree with all The Letter M said about Nursery Cryme, but for me, Foxtrot is the far better album. Also, I think that Twilight Alehouse fits in with Foxtrot better than with Nursery Cryme, the drum sound alone gives me that impression. Happy The Man fits in with Nursery Cryme, having that careless vibe wich gives me the feeling the band (as Letter M said) didn't take themselves too seriously at the time.
The compositions on Foxtrot are way better thought through and worked out, the (admittedly fantastic) longer songs on Nursery are still simpler in terms of structure, harmonies and rhythm. Not to say they're "simple" as they are, but songs like Can-Utility, Watcher Of The Skies, Get Em Out and of course possibly one of the three greatest tracks that ever came out of the Prog movement, Supper's Ready, are far more complex imo. (One of the other two would be Yes' The Gates Of Delirium for me)
But I also LOVE the acoustic tracks on Nursery; For Absent Friends and Harlequin. The former is just a lovely tune, a word picture with a very shy Phil Collins on vocals. The latter is a beautiful poem with a very english feeling to it. Seven Stones was supposed to be a homage to Crimso, afaik Tony even borrowed the mellotron from King Crimson at the time. But it's more of a ballad than Epitaph or In The Court. The Musical Box and Fountain are brilliant compositions of course, but Tony improved his skills in composition even more with the aforementioned Foxtrot songs and of course Selling England's Firth Of Fifth, Dancing With The Moonlit Knight or Wind & Wuthering's One For The Vine.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mosh on March 21, 2017, 04:41:53 PM
I don't really care for Nursery Cryme. Musical Box is fantastic, Hogweed is cool, the rest I could do without.

Foxtrot is a near perfect album. Supper's Ready is their best song, but Watcher of the Skies is also up there. Even the more obscure tracks, such as Can Utility and Horizons, are very enjoyable.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on March 21, 2017, 07:48:05 PM
Foxtrot is a no brainer. My wife and I were just listening to Nursery Crime and were taken aback. We had been listening to live versions of all those songs and while there is nothing inherently bad about the recording of Nursery Crime, the live performances are far superior. I would probably choose Foxtrot regardless.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on March 21, 2017, 07:51:47 PM
Foxtrot, easily.  Supper's Ready and Can-Utility... are two of my favorite Genesis songs ever, and the rest of the album is solid. 

I like most of Nursery Cryme, but The Fountain of Salcamis is the only song from it I would say I consider more than merely good.  I've never gotten the mad love many have for The Musical Box.  It's a solid tune. No more, no less.  And this will be heresy to some, but I never listen to their version of The Return of the Giant Hogweed anymore since I like the Transatlantic cover a lot more.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on March 22, 2017, 02:42:03 AM
I can't really listen to the TA version since Neal is not nearly as good as a singer as Peter is.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on March 22, 2017, 08:31:39 AM
For perspective, my favorite Genesis period is "The Lamb..." through "Three Sides Live", my favorite album is either W&W or Abacab, and my favorite recorded moment of music ever is the Medley portion of "In The Cage" on the album 3SL (the video has a different, lesser performance).   

This is hard for me for similar reasons to Orbert's:  I had both on vinyl, and Foxtrot didn't really sound that great, but the first pressing of the Foxtrot CD was ABYSSMAL.   HORRID.  So I listened to Nursery Cryme more, and for me, I LOVE LOVE LOVE the end of Musical Box and The Return of the Giant Hogweed (one of my top five Gabriel Genesis songs).  But I abhor the early, twee Phil vocals ("More Fool Me" is one of my five least favorite Genesis songs ever), and, well, SUPPER'S READY.

I'm going to go with Foxtrot.   The 5.1 mix on the recent box sets is SO much an improvement over what came before, and it's just the stronger album from top to bottom, even if the highs of NC are perhaps better.   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 22, 2017, 09:58:14 AM
I liked Phil's voice better when it had that quieter side.  When he became "Phil Collins, Pop God" and only used his loud, shouty voice, I really feel that the band lost something.  Basically they lost any kind of subtlety in the vocal department.  But again, it's probably easier for me to accept because that's where I started with them.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on March 22, 2017, 10:14:30 AM
But I abhor the early, twee Phil vocals ("More Fool Me" is one of my five least favorite Genesis songs ever), and, well, SUPPER'S READY.

I don't get it, you like Genesis, but.. you.. don't like.. SUPPER'S READY??  :omg: :omg: :omg:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on March 22, 2017, 02:03:42 PM
But I abhor the early, twee Phil vocals ("More Fool Me" is one of my five least favorite Genesis songs ever), and, well, SUPPER'S READY.

I don't get it, you like Genesis, but.. you.. don't like.. SUPPER'S READY??  :omg: :omg: :omg:

No, no, I wrote that poorly.  I was saying "Nursery Cryme is great, but it has the twee Phil vocals I hate, and Foxtrot gets a huge plus one for having the epic Supper's Ready".   I actually LOVE that song, it just has never grown old for me.   I love the Pete version on Foxtrot, I love the Phil version on Seconds Out, and I love the Pete version from the Rainbow (in the Archive set). 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 22, 2017, 02:42:49 PM
But I abhor the early, twee Phil vocals ("More Fool Me" is one of my five least favorite Genesis songs ever), and, well, SUPPER'S READY.

I don't get it, you like Genesis, but.. you.. don't like.. SUPPER'S READY??  :omg: :omg: :omg:

No, no, I wrote that poorly.  I was saying "Nursery Cryme is great, but it has the twee Phil vocals I hate, and Foxtrot gets a huge plus one for having the epic Supper's Ready".   I actually LOVE that song, it just has never grown old for me.   I love the Pete version on Foxtrot, I love the Phil version on Seconds Out, and I love the Pete version from the Rainbow (in the Archive set).

I was gonna say, there's very few Gabriel-Era Genesis fans that WON'T like "Supper's Ready"! But yes, any full version of SR is amazing, even the missing-Live version that has bounced around in bootleg circles for years and years, though I am glad we finally have the FULL Rainbow show from the SEBTP tour (even though Watcher and Musical Box were downloads - make the show a 2-CDr set like I did!).

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on March 23, 2017, 09:26:03 AM
But I abhor the early, twee Phil vocals ("More Fool Me" is one of my five least favorite Genesis songs ever), and, well, SUPPER'S READY.

I don't get it, you like Genesis, but.. you.. don't like.. SUPPER'S READY??  :omg: :omg: :omg:

No, no, I wrote that poorly.  I was saying "Nursery Cryme is great, but it has the twee Phil vocals I hate, and Foxtrot gets a huge plus one for having the epic Supper's Ready".   I actually LOVE that song, it just has never grown old for me.   I love the Pete version on Foxtrot, I love the Phil version on Seconds Out, and I love the Pete version from the Rainbow (in the Archive set).

I was gonna say, there's very few Gabriel-Era Genesis fans that WON'T like "Supper's Ready"! But yes, any full version of SR is amazing, even the missing-Live version that has bounced around in bootleg circles for years and years, though I am glad we finally have the FULL Rainbow show from the SEBTP tour (even though Watcher and Musical Box were downloads - make the show a 2-CDr set like I did!).

-Marc.

-Marc.


I hope this doesn't fall under the "illegal"-policy (if so I will delete this post), but is it possible you could give me that 2-CD version? Or where can I buy it?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on March 23, 2017, 09:50:45 AM
Speaking of Genesis, is the Atlantic Records 40th Anniversary set officially available?  I want that medley. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 23, 2017, 10:48:09 AM
But I abhor the early, twee Phil vocals ("More Fool Me" is one of my five least favorite Genesis songs ever), and, well, SUPPER'S READY.

I don't get it, you like Genesis, but.. you.. don't like.. SUPPER'S READY??  :omg: :omg: :omg:

No, no, I wrote that poorly.  I was saying "Nursery Cryme is great, but it has the twee Phil vocals I hate, and Foxtrot gets a huge plus one for having the epic Supper's Ready".   I actually LOVE that song, it just has never grown old for me.   I love the Pete version on Foxtrot, I love the Phil version on Seconds Out, and I love the Pete version from the Rainbow (in the Archive set).

I was gonna say, there's very few Gabriel-Era Genesis fans that WON'T like "Supper's Ready"! But yes, any full version of SR is amazing, even the missing-Live version that has bounced around in bootleg circles for years and years, though I am glad we finally have the FULL Rainbow show from the SEBTP tour (even though Watcher and Musical Box were downloads - make the show a 2-CDr set like I did!).

-Marc.

-Marc.


I hope this doesn't fall under the "illegal"-policy (if so I will delete this post), but is it possible you could give me that 2-CD version? Or where can I buy it?

Well, you can get "Live At The Rainbow" as part of the Genesis Live box set, which features the band's 4 major live albums (Live, Seconds Out, Three Sides Live, and The Way We Walk), a space for Live Over Europe (released not too long before that box set), and the bonus disc of the Rainbow gig, but because the show was over 80 minutes long, two songs had to be cut from the CD (as mentioned above), but the DVD version includes "Watcher Of The Skies" and "The Musical Box" in their rightful spots. Originally, I had felt it was OK that they were excluded because the versions on the first Live album are pretty iconic and the rest of the Rainbow show featured songs from SEBTP and "Supper's Ready", so between Live and Rainbow, you've got a really great 2-CD set of music.

As for the two download tracks (Watcher and Musical Box), you can probably find them online since they were made available for download by the band's website anyway. As for the rest of the Rainbow show, I'd highly recommend buying the box set since it's still available at a reasonable price (around $100 on Amazon and eBay), if you can afford it that is. It's totally worth it to have remastered versions of the live stuff as they all sound better than ever IMO, and the first live album even includes some Lamb Tour songs as bonus tracks. If that's out of the realm of affordability, I know the Rainbow show has had numerous bootlegs circulating the net for a long time, so that's always an alternative, though I'm not sure how available they are now since that box set came out 8 years ago.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on March 23, 2017, 11:04:25 AM
Let me go on record as saying ALL the Box Sets are must-haves for the Genesis fan.  I know some of the really hard core are sore that some of the bonus material wasn't higher quality, and there are still things missing (the Firth of Fifth from the '82 tour that was issued on green flexi-disk is a common one highlighted; no I'm not making that shit up), but for me, a 5.1 fan, listening to The Lamb or W&W in surround sound is just sublime.    They did a really good job on those boxes, and I can only wish that Peter, Phil, and Ozzy would take notes.   (I'm pissed that the Peter and Phil soundtrack songs and b-sides haven't been collected and/or released somewhere).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 23, 2017, 11:51:27 AM
Full disclosure is required here.  The 5.1 mixes from the box sets are very nice, but the guy who did them also messed with the mix.  In my opinion, this was not always a good thing.  A number of awesome, subtle things that were originally lower in the mix are now much louder.  Yeah, it's nice to hear those lines, but a huge part of early Genesis was the juxtaposition of quiet and not-so-quiet sections.  When everything's loud, there's no contrast and to me much of the beauty of the composition is lost.

If you're not familiar with the original mixes, this might not bother you, but as someone who grew up with them, the remixes sound clearer but are also victims of the loudness war.  5.1 is cool, remastering is good, but remixing is completely different.  I was looking forward to awesome surround-sound versions of my favorite albums.  Instead I got surround-sound versions of remixed versions of my favorite albums.  Not the same thing.  I sold my box sets on Ebay (for a profit).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on March 23, 2017, 12:31:11 PM
I am very proud to say that since this Christmas I own all of the boxsets  :coolio But my Rainbow concert only includes (as you said) the one CD. I will try to look for Watcher Of The Skies and The Musical Box.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on March 23, 2017, 02:13:27 PM
Full disclosure is required here.  The 5.1 mixes from the box sets are very nice, but the guy who did them also messed with the mix.  In my opinion, this was not always a good thing.  A number of awesome, subtle things that were originally lower in the mix are now much louder.  Yeah, it's nice to hear those lines, but a huge part of early Genesis was the juxtaposition of quiet and not-so-quiet sections.  When everything's loud, there's no contrast and to me much of the beauty of the composition is lost.

If you're not familiar with the original mixes, this might not bother you, but as someone who grew up with them, the remixes sound clearer but are also victims of the loudness war.  5.1 is cool, remastering is good, but remixing is completely different.  I was looking forward to awesome surround-sound versions of my favorite albums.  Instead I got surround-sound versions of remixed versions of my favorite albums.  Not the same thing.  I sold my box sets on Ebay (for a profit).

Fair points, but let's be clear:  louder in the MIX.  I don't at all think these are "loud" in the sense that Death Magnetic is loud.  They're not all compressed to shit; at least not to my ears.  But yes, the MIXES are different.  Noticeably so in some cases. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 23, 2017, 02:25:56 PM
Okay, true.  The louder parts aren't much louder than before, but some quieter parts are louder than they used to be, and some individual parts within the songs themselves have been tinkered with.  It's not all brickwalled or anything, but it's been fucked with for no reason other than Nick Davis felt like it.  I know, Tony Banks approved the final mixes.  They're official releases.  But these are not the original albums sounding clearer; they've been fucked with.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on March 24, 2017, 06:31:23 AM
^^^ You are correct.   The "Definitive Releases" from '94 are, I think, what you want for that (though the 3SL tracking is screwed up - "Fountain of Salmacis" is actually part two of "One For The Vine" AND "Fountain...", though the Supper's Ready edit has been fixed (and the album doesn't sound like it's playing through a throw pillow). 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PROGdrummer on March 28, 2017, 11:54:28 AM
I've been on a big Genesis kick for a while now, but only just recently starter digging into the B-sides and unused tracks.

It's Yourself has quickly become one of my favorite Genesis songs. Phil's vocals are so emotive, and the guitar is as majestic as any other 70s era Genesis tune. And when you make it segue into Los Endos, it becomes an epic on par with Cinema Show, almost. Very very beautiful.

I feel like Happy The Man sounds more like Trespass than Nursery Crime. Lots of bits remind me of Stagnation, for example.    Twilight Alehouse is another track that's definitely one of their best and most interesting songs. The drums at the end really rock.     Inside and Out is prettier than alot of what made it onto W&W, is that a Hackett song?

Naminanu is great as well. Reminds me of something Yes would do.

I still have a lot further down the rabbit hole yet to go. It sure is deeper than I thought.
 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on March 28, 2017, 12:14:36 PM
I've been on a big Genesis kick for a while now, but only just recently starter digging into the B-sides and unused tracks.

It's Yourself has quickly become one of my favorite Genesis songs. Phil's vocals are so emotive, and the guitar is as majestic as any other 70s era Genesis tune. And when you make it segue into Los Endos, it becomes an epic on par with Cinema Show, almost. Very very beautiful.

I feel like Happy The Man sounds more like Trespass than Nursery Crime. Lots of bits remind me of Stagnation, for example.    Twilight Alehouse is another track that's definitely one of their best and most interesting songs. The drums at the end really rock.     Inside and Out is prettier than alot of what made it onto W&W, is that a Hackett song?

Naminanu is great as well. Reminds me of something Yes would do.

I still have a lot further down the rabbit hole yet to go. It sure is deeper than I thought.

And you haven't even mentioned the three best of the b-sides:   Vancouver, Evidence of Autumn, and You Might Recall.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 28, 2017, 12:26:57 PM
I've been on a big Genesis kick for a while now, but only just recently starter digging into the B-sides and unused tracks.

It's Yourself has quickly become one of my favorite Genesis songs. Phil's vocals are so emotive, and the guitar is as majestic as any other 70s era Genesis tune. And when you make it segue into Los Endos, it becomes an epic on par with Cinema Show, almost. Very very beautiful.
Did you check out the link I posted earlier in the thread that shows how "It's Yourself" originally had a longer ending that ends with the same arpeggio that opens up "Mad Man Moon"? It makes for a PERFECT segue between the two songs.

I feel like Happy The Man sounds more like Trespass than Nursery Crime. Lots of bits remind me of Stagnation, for example.    Twilight Alehouse is another track that's definitely one of their best and most interesting songs. The drums at the end really rock.   
These two songs are pretty nice, especially for being the only 2 non-album songs from the Gabriel-era that were fully recorded (not counting live at the BBC songs, or demos). The former is a work that reminds me a lot of various material from their first three albums, tho I play it with NC more than TP, same with "Twilight Alehouse", especially since both tracks have Steve and Phil on them. Check further back in the thread if you're interested in my alternate tracklist for Nursery Cryme (which is how I've been listening to it for the last month or more).

Inside and Out is prettier than alot of what made it onto W&W, is that a Hackett song?
Yes, "Inside And Out" is a Hackett song, and it's exclusion from WAW was one of the driving forces behind his departure. "Wot Gorilla?" was included on the final album instead, and by that point, Steve felt like his material wasn't being represented as equally as the others.


Naminanu is great as well. Reminds me of something Yes would do.

I still have a lot further down the rabbit hole yet to go. It sure is deeper than I thought.

"Naminanu" is a great, fast-paced piece which, for me, serves as the opening for the suite on Abacab - Naminanu/Dodo/Lurker/Submarine. Lots of folks put "Naminanu" after "Submarine" but for me, it makes more sense as an overture, which are typically instrumental in prog anyway, and ending the suite with 8 minutes of instrumental just doesn't make any sense to me either.

And yes, there are tons more of Post-Gabriel B-sides to discover and enjoy. Personally, I've made tracklists for each album that includes all of the songs from those sessions, for a more "complete" version of the album. Is it what the band intended? Ehh, probably  not, but I like the idea of having everything in one go, even if the songs were left off for one reason or another (though with how long their albums tended to be with regards to vinyl's constraints, I'm betting album length was a factor in deciding which songs to leave off).

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on March 28, 2017, 02:16:43 PM
I've assembled both the Dodo Suite and the Duke Suites on my iPod, and I've also assembled the "Abacab Complete" album, which incorporates both the Suite and the b-sides.  I'm sure something similar can be done with the Duke album as well. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 28, 2017, 04:28:35 PM
I've assembled both the Dodo Suite and the Duke Suites on my iPod, and I've also assembled the "Abacab Complete" album, which incorporates both the Suite and the b-sides.  I'm sure something similar can be done with the Duke album as well.

Nice! :tup

If you want a suggestion for a complete Duke tracklisting, here's what I've got:
Behind The Lines
Duchess
Guide Vocal
Man Of Our Times
Misunderstanding
Heathaze
Evidence Of Autumn
Turn It On Again
Alone Tonight
Cul-De-Sac
Open Door
Please Don't Ask
Duke's Travels
Duke's End

This has been my preferred listening order for Duke ever since I got into the band over 13 years ago.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PROGdrummer on March 28, 2017, 09:10:47 PM
I've been on a big Genesis kick for a while now, but only just recently starter digging into the B-sides and unused tracks.

It's Yourself has quickly become one of my favorite Genesis songs. Phil's vocals are so emotive, and the guitar is as majestic as any other 70s era Genesis tune. And when you make it segue into Los Endos, it becomes an epic on par with Cinema Show, almost. Very very beautiful.
Did you check out the link I posted earlier in the thread that shows how "It's Yourself" originally had a longer ending that ends with the same arpeggio that opens up "Mad Man Moon"? It makes for a PERFECT segue between the two songs.

I had heard that one before! It is very interesting.  Here's the edit I've been listening to. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STvWMYb9Arw) Admittedly, it does cut out all of that lovely atmospheric noodling, but I do like the way this edit flows into Los Endos. It's very natural sounding to me and manages to improve Los Endos for me. Having that melodic and emotional vocal with the gentle guitars before building into the frenetic ride cymbal and "Weather Report" style jam, it's makes for a more dynamic piece than  default vanilla Los Endos, and kinda sets you up for the conclusion of the album as well.  I think It's Yourself makes a very nice "closing thoughts" musical statement paired with Los Endos in this way.

Inside and Out is prettier than alot of what made it onto W&W, is that a Hackett song?
Yes, "Inside And Out" is a Hackett song, and it's exclusion from WAW was one of the driving forces behind his departure. "Wot Gorilla?" was included on the final album instead, and by that point, Steve felt like his material wasn't being represented as equally as the others.

I remember hearing Steve mention in a few interviews I saw that he wrote "Please Don't Touch" for W&W and was frustrated that "Wot Gorilla?" was used instead.  I think "All In A Mouse's Night" could have been scrapped in favor of Inside and Out. Frankly, even "Your Own Special Way" could have been swapped with Inside and Out (was never a fan of Phil's vocals on that track).

Luckily, I don't pay much mind to the "eras" of Genesis music in the grand scheme of things, and I love every album pretty much equally. I throw in all the 70's Gabriel stuff the 70's Collins stuff and the 80s stuff into one big playlist and enjoy, so it's definitely a treat digging up all these rarer tracks to add to the mix. Such a versatile and varied body of work!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 28, 2017, 10:24:14 PM
I've been on a big Genesis kick for a while now, but only just recently starter digging into the B-sides and unused tracks.

It's Yourself has quickly become one of my favorite Genesis songs. Phil's vocals are so emotive, and the guitar is as majestic as any other 70s era Genesis tune. And when you make it segue into Los Endos, it becomes an epic on par with Cinema Show, almost. Very very beautiful.
Did you check out the link I posted earlier in the thread that shows how "It's Yourself" originally had a longer ending that ends with the same arpeggio that opens up "Mad Man Moon"? It makes for a PERFECT segue between the two songs.

I had heard that one before! It is very interesting.  Here's the edit I've been listening to. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STvWMYb9Arw) Admittedly, it does cut out all of that lovely atmospheric noodling, but I do like the way this edit flows into Los Endos. It's very natural sounding to me and manages to improve Los Endos for me. Having that melodic and emotional vocal with the gentle guitars before building into the frenetic ride cymbal and "Weather Report" style jam, it's makes for a more dynamic piece than  default vanilla Los Endos, and kinda sets you up for the conclusion of the album as well.  I think It's Yourself makes a very nice "closing thoughts" musical statement paired with Los Endos in this way.

Ahh yes, I've heard that edit before, and I liked it originally because the link between the two seemed obvious, but when I discovered that connection between IY and MMM, it made sense to put it where I have it now. I also like having IY earlier in the album and then hearing the reprise in the opening of "Los Endos", because really, "Los Endos" is a reprisal of so many things, so it makes sense as a standalone finale for the album, reprising "It's Yourself", "Dance On A Volcano" and "Squonk", which itself also has a reprisal of a melody from DOAV. This album is full of riffs and melodies that are scattered and shared throughout, so I like having "Los Endos" stand alone at the end without chopping up "It's Yourself" as an "overture" to it.


Inside and Out is prettier than alot of what made it onto W&W, is that a Hackett song?
Yes, "Inside And Out" is a Hackett song, and it's exclusion from WAW was one of the driving forces behind his departure. "Wot Gorilla?" was included on the final album instead, and by that point, Steve felt like his material wasn't being represented as equally as the others.

I remember hearing Steve mention in a few interviews I saw that he wrote "Please Don't Touch" for W&W and was frustrated that "Wot Gorilla?" was used instead.  I think "All In A Mouse's Night" could have been scrapped in favor of Inside and Out. Frankly, even "Your Own Special Way" could have been swapped with Inside and Out (was never a fan of Phil's vocals on that track).


From the wiki article on Please Don't Touch:
Quote
Hackett had previously released a solo album, Voyage of the Acolyte, while still a member of Genesis, but he was frustrated by the collaborative process of Genesis which left much of his creative work unreleased. He insisted that more of his material be included on their next album. Of the four songs he brought to the writing sessions, only one, "Blood on the Rooftops", was worked on and included on their next album. He wrote a song, "Please Don't Touch", that Genesis rehearsed but ended up setting aside, partly because the other members of the band did not want to use it. He also wrote a second song, "Hoping Love Will Last", that he felt was appropriate only for a female singer, which was something that the band could not use. A third song, "Inside and Out", was left off the album, but found its way to the EP Spot the Pigeon alongside two other songs written by other members that were also left off the album. Eventually, the track Wot Gorilla? was decided on as the last track on the first side of Wind and Wuthering, and this decision sealed Hackett's decision to leave Genesis. Hackett quit Genesis and began to record the album Please Don't Touch, using the rejected Genesis song as the title track.[3]

Seems like Hackett had a LOT of material for W&W, but only "Blood On The Rooftops" was put on (and according to the wiki, it was co-credited with Collins), whereas Tony Banks has 3 solo credits ("One For The Vine", "All In A Mouse's Night", and "Afterglow"). Without having read a lot of the books and what not regarding the band's interpersonal history, I'm sure there was some tension between Hackett and Banks at the time. One telling sign was that Hackett had Collins and Rutherford play on his first solo album, but NOT Banks, so it's possible that Hackett was just fed up with the amount of Banks material the band decided would be on W&W


Luckily, I don't pay much mind to the "eras" of Genesis music in the grand scheme of things, and I love every album pretty much equally. I throw in all the 70's Gabriel stuff the 70's Collins stuff and the 80s stuff into one big playlist and enjoy, so it's definitely a treat digging up all these rarer tracks to add to the mix. Such a versatile and varied body of work!

I only pay attention to the "eras" of Genesis as a way to understand the history of the band, where they were and where they went, to see and hear the evolution of their performance and writing skills. But I agree, their work is very varied and versatile, and I feel the "prog" in all of their works (well, except their first album, and some of their last album).

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on March 29, 2017, 07:26:59 AM
Inside and Out is prettier than alot of what made it onto W&W, is that a Hackett song?
Yes, "Inside And Out" is a Hackett song, and it's exclusion from WAW was one of the driving forces behind his departure. "Wot Gorilla?" was included on the final album instead, and by that point, Steve felt like his material wasn't being represented as equally as the others.

I remember hearing Steve mention in a few interviews I saw that he wrote "Please Don't Touch" for W&W and was frustrated that "Wot Gorilla?" was used instead.  I think "All In A Mouse's Night" could have been scrapped in favor of Inside and Out. Frankly, even "Your Own Special Way" could have been swapped with Inside and Out (was never a fan of Phil's vocals on that track).


From the wiki article on Please Don't Touch:
Quote
Hackett had previously released a solo album, Voyage of the Acolyte, while still a member of Genesis, but he was frustrated by the collaborative process of Genesis which left much of his creative work unreleased. He insisted that more of his material be included on their next album. Of the four songs he brought to the writing sessions, only one, "Blood on the Rooftops", was worked on and included on their next album. He wrote a song, "Please Don't Touch", that Genesis rehearsed but ended up setting aside, partly because the other members of the band did not want to use it. He also wrote a second song, "Hoping Love Will Last", that he felt was appropriate only for a female singer, which was something that the band could not use. A third song, "Inside and Out", was left off the album, but found its way to the EP Spot the Pigeon alongside two other songs written by other members that were also left off the album. Eventually, the track Wot Gorilla? was decided on as the last track on the first side of Wind and Wuthering, and this decision sealed Hackett's decision to leave Genesis. Hackett quit Genesis and began to record the album Please Don't Touch, using the rejected Genesis song as the title track.[3]

Seems like Hackett had a LOT of material for W&W, but only "Blood On The Rooftops" was put on (and according to the wiki, it was co-credited with Collins), whereas Tony Banks has 3 solo credits ("One For The Vine", "All In A Mouse's Night", and "Afterglow"). Without having read a lot of the books and what not regarding the band's interpersonal history, I'm sure there was some tension between Hackett and Banks at the time. One telling sign was that Hackett had Collins and Rutherford play on his first solo album, but NOT Banks, so it's possible that Hackett was just fed up with the amount of Banks material the band decided would be on W&W

Call me whack, but I'm in Tony's camp.   I'm not a huge fan of "Your Own Special Way" at all (one of my least favorite Genesis songs) but W&W is a top ten all time album for me, and frankly, from what I've heard, I'd rather hear All In A Mouse's Night or Wot Gorilla? than "Please Don't Touch" (as done by Genesis) or "Inside and Out" (though I love the ending of that).  Wot Gorilla? actually reprises, in different form, a motif from "One For The Vine", so it makes sense on the album, as does the "Slumbers" suite with "Afterglow".   YOSW is a Rutherford track, not a Banks track, so I think there's a good argument that the Banks material was just stronger and more appropriate for the album. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 29, 2017, 07:29:14 AM
I read that the instrumentals "Unquiet Slumber for the Sleepers..." and "...in that Quiet Earth" were originally one piece.  The original title (just put the two together) is the last line of the book Wuthering Heights, which inspired the title of the album itself.  They decided to split it into two pieces so that Steve would have credit on more tracks.  They felt bad about not using much of his contributions, but the band had always used a democratic system wherein anybody could submit songs to be worked on by the band, and the band as a group would vote on which material they felt was strongest and/or best suited for the album.  Steve came up really short this time, so splitting one piece into two seems like literally throwing him a bone.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 29, 2017, 06:39:01 PM
Call me whack, but I'm in Tony's camp.   I'm not a huge fan of "Your Own Special Way" at all (one of my least favorite Genesis songs) but W&W is a top ten all time album for me, and frankly, from what I've heard, I'd rather hear All In A Mouse's Night or Wot Gorilla? than "Please Don't Touch" (as done by Genesis) or "Inside and Out" (though I love the ending of that).  Wot Gorilla? actually reprises, in different form, a motif from "One For The Vine", so it makes sense on the album, as does the "Slumbers" suite with "Afterglow".   YOSW is a Rutherford track, not a Banks track, so I think there's a good argument that the Banks material was just stronger and more appropriate for the album.

Oh, definitely, "One For The Vine" and "Afterglow" are amazing tracks, don't get me wrong, but it was just unfortunate that Steve had to leave because he felt unrepresented on the album, despite how great his playing is. I'd be frustrated, too, especially if I had a lot of music I wanted to put out. Fortunately, he left the band and has been able to pursue his musical journey apart from Genesis, and I think both he and the band were happier for it - Steve got to do what he wanted to do, and Genesis moved on and became a huge stadium-filling pop-rock band. For what Steve DID get on W&W was pretty great, though, especially "Blood On The Rooftops". I do agree about keeping "Wot Gorilla?" for the sake of shared themes, much like their previous albums have done, as with the trio of songs that close the album.

Then again, Banks has always been the musical driving force of the band, from day one it seems. When one thinks of Genesis, the keyboards are usually one of the first things to come up after Peter and Phil's duties. From "The Cinema Show" to "Duke's Travels", Tony was always a musical force for Genesis, so it makes sense that he probably got a lot of his material onto albums.

I read that the instrumentals "Unquiet Slumber for the Sleepers..." and "...in that Quiet Earth" were originally one piece.  The original title (just put the two together) is the last line of the book Wuthering Heights, which inspired the title of the album itself.  They decided to split it into two pieces so that Steve would have credit on more tracks.  They felt bad about not using much of his contributions, but the band had always used a democratic system wherein anybody could submit songs to be worked on by the band, and the band as a group would vote on which material they felt was strongest and/or best suited for the album.  Steve came up really short this time, so splitting one piece into two seems like literally throwing him a bone.

I do remember reading about this a long time ago, splitting the track into two to give Steve another album credit. It's a nice gesture, but I guess maybe one could see it as a slap-in-the-face, or salt in the wound, saying "Hey, we didn't like your other stuff, but here, let's split this first minute off our instrumental and you can be credited to it!".

I should really buy a Genesis biography someday and read up on the intricate history of the band beyond wiki articles and old websites. Any suggestions?

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 29, 2017, 07:06:28 PM
Long ago and far away, I read a book called "I Know What I Like" by Armando Gallo (mostly known for his photography, but also a writer).  It chronicled Genesis at the time, which was the early 80's.  It was the definitive bio of the band at the time.  I borrowed it from a friend and absorbed everything I could from it in a week.  It was very good.

I believe that there was at least one updated version of it published later, but I don't remember when, and I'm too lazy to look it up right now.  But if there's one relatively recent, or even up through the 90's, I would get it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on March 30, 2017, 12:15:34 AM
I should really buy a Genesis biography someday and read up on the intricate history of the band beyond wiki articles and old websites. Any suggestions?
-Marc.

I've only read Chapter And Verse (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Genesis-Chapter-Verse-Phil-Collins/dp/0297844342), the official biography told by the guys themselves, and I enjoyed it a lot.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on March 30, 2017, 04:16:00 AM
I never realized that Wot Gorilla reprised themes from One For The Vine. Can anyone tell me where exactly?
I think the three weakest tracks on the album are Your Own Special Way, All In A Mouse's Night and Wot Gorilla, with the latter two definitely being better than the first one but none being really "bad". I guess, the album would have been cooler without Special Way and Wot Gorilla, but with the Please Don't Touch Suite (the whole 8 1/2 min thing). I also like Inside & Out, really cool instrumental part at the end, where Steve sounds a lot like Steve Howe!
So I think, Wind & Wuthering would have been a pretty good double album, too!

A
1. Eleventh Earl Of Mar
2. One For The Vine
3. You Own Special Way
B
4. Wot Gorilla
5. All In A Mouse's Night
6. Inside & Out
C
7. Please Don't Touch
8. Blood On The Rooftops
D
9. Unquiet Slumbers For The Sleepers In That Quiet Earth
10. Afterflow

But then again, almost 20 mins of the album would have consisted of instrumental tracks.. Which Phil would have loved I'm sure :D
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 30, 2017, 07:08:54 AM
I never realized that Wot Gorilla reprised themes from One For The Vine. Can anyone tell me where exactly?

The main melody of Wot Gorilla? revisits the instrumental at 5:30 in One for the Vine.

Someone said "themes" implying that there's more than one, but that's the only one I've ever heard.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on March 30, 2017, 08:10:13 AM
I never realized that Wot Gorilla reprised themes from One For The Vine. Can anyone tell me where exactly?
I think the three weakest tracks on the album are Your Own Special Way, All In A Mouse's Night and Wot Gorilla, with the latter two definitely being better than the first one but none being really "bad". I guess, the album would have been cooler without Special Way and Wot Gorilla, but with the Please Don't Touch Suite (the whole 8 1/2 min thing). I also like Inside & Out, really cool instrumental part at the end, where Steve sounds a lot like Steve Howe!
So I think, Wind & Wuthering would have been a pretty good double album, too!

A
1. Eleventh Earl Of Mar
2. One For The Vine
3. You Own Special Way
B
4. Wot Gorilla
5. All In A Mouse's Night
6. Inside & Out
C
7. Please Don't Touch
8. Blood On The Rooftops
D
9. Unquiet Slumbers For The Sleepers In That Quiet Earth
10. Afterflow

But then again, almost 20 mins of the album would have consisted of instrumental tracks.. Which Phil would have loved I'm sure :D

Haha, well he later complained about having to sing about "bread bins" (a line in "AIAMN") so maybe you're right!  I will say, though; this was around the time he got interested in playing with Brand X, and I'm sorry, but I think he drums his tits off on this record.  He later apologized for "over playing", but I don't think so at all, and I tend to think that was him being self conscious when all the fans that knew him only from "I Missed Again" went back and tried to learn more about him and his discography. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 30, 2017, 11:20:29 PM
I never realized that Wot Gorilla reprised themes from One For The Vine. Can anyone tell me where exactly?

The main melody of Wot Gorilla? revisits the instrumental at 5:30 in One for the Vine.

Someone said "themes" implying that there's more than one, but that's the only one I've ever heard.

Correct - "Wot Gorilla?" does only reprise the one theme from "One For The Vine", but when I said "I do agree about keeping "Wot Gorilla?" for the sake of shared themes, much like their previous albums have done, as with the trio of songs that close the album", I meant with regards to the WHOLE album containing more songs with shared themes overall, rathern than just having the "Eleventh Earl Of Mar" being quoted at the end of "...In That Quiet Earth". Sticking "Wot Gorilla?" on the album gave it another reprise of a theme, meaning there was a bit more of that thematic reprisal going on, of which there was a lot on their previous album ("Squonk" quoting "Dance On A Volcano", and "Los Endos" quoting both of those, as well as "It's Yourself", which apparently also had the opening notes to "Mad Man Moon" on its original ending).

Of course, quoting the opening number near the end of the album wasn't only done on ATOTT and W&W, but also SEBTP and Duke, and honestly, all four of those albums are probably in my Top 5 Genesis albums, maybe Top 6. I've never really given too much thought about ranking their albums overall.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cyclopssss on March 31, 2017, 12:13:04 AM
I should really buy a Genesis biography someday and read up on the intricate history of the band beyond wiki articles and old websites. Any suggestions?
-Marc.

I've only read Chapter And Verse (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Genesis-Chapter-Verse-Phil-Collins/dp/0297844342), the official biography told by the guys themselves, and I enjoyed it a lot.

This book goes for 69, - on my local retailer. Are you kidding me? Is that amount worth the purchase?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on March 31, 2017, 01:06:09 AM
I should really buy a Genesis biography someday and read up on the intricate history of the band beyond wiki articles and old websites. Any suggestions?
-Marc.

I've only read Chapter And Verse (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Genesis-Chapter-Verse-Phil-Collins/dp/0297844342), the official biography told by the guys themselves, and I enjoyed it a lot.

This book goes for 69, - on my local retailer. Are you kidding me? Is that amount worth the purchase?

Wow, that sounds expensive. Can't remember what I paid for it though.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cyclopssss on March 31, 2017, 02:12:57 AM
I mean, how many pages is it? Are there a lot of photo's in there? I'm trying to explain why it would be so expensive.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 31, 2017, 07:38:45 AM
I never realized that Wot Gorilla reprised themes from One For The Vine. Can anyone tell me where exactly?

The main melody of Wot Gorilla? revisits the instrumental at 5:30 in One for the Vine.

Someone said "themes" implying that there's more than one, but that's the only one I've ever heard.

Correct - "Wot Gorilla?" does only reprise the one theme from "One For The Vine", but when I said "I do agree about keeping "Wot Gorilla?" for the sake of shared themes, much like their previous albums have done, as with the trio of songs that close the album", I meant with regards to the WHOLE album containing more songs with shared themes overall, rathern than just having the "Eleventh Earl Of Mar" being quoted at the end of "...In That Quiet Earth". Sticking "Wot Gorilla?" on the album gave it another reprise of a theme, meaning there was a bit more of that thematic reprisal going on, of which there was a lot on their previous album ("Squonk" quoting "Dance On A Volcano", and "Los Endos" quoting both of those, as well as "It's Yourself", which apparently also had the opening notes to "Mad Man Moon" on its original ending).

Ah, that makes sense.  Genesis did that a lot, as many bands did.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on April 01, 2017, 09:12:13 AM
I mean, how many pages is it? Are there a lot of photo's in there? I'm trying to explain why it would be so expensive.

Just checked, 400 pages and plenty of photos.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 01, 2017, 01:42:23 PM
Okay, true.  The louder parts aren't much louder than before, but some quieter parts are louder than they used to be, and some individual parts within the songs themselves have been tinkered with.  It's not all brickwalled or anything, but it's been fucked with for no reason other than Nick Davis felt like it.  I know, Tony Banks approved the final mixes.  They're official releases.  But these are not the original albums sounding clearer; they've been fucked with.

Sort of in the way that Vapor Trails Remixed was...  Band (Or band member....can't remember who now) signed off on them.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 01, 2017, 05:18:31 PM
Similar, yes, but I think it's safe to say that many people thought the original sound of Vapor Trails was pretty bad.  If they'd just fixed the sound issues without messing with the mix, it would have been nothing but a positive move.  But then it wouldn't have been Vapor Trails Remixed.  I guess Vapor Trail Remastered just doesn't roll off the tongue the same way.

Still, with the Genesis boxes, the original mixes were freakin' masterpieces, and the sound was also very good to start with.  Production and engineering on Genesis albums is always great.  So in this case, it was a matter of messing with it just to mess with it.  There was no need to "fix" anything.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PROGdrummer on April 02, 2017, 05:41:42 AM
Speaking of books, has anyone read Phil's new autobiography "Not Dead Yet"?

Alot of interesting insight on his personal battles during his time with Genesis, especially during the early years and what it was like balancing Brand X and his solo career as well.

Im sure alot of details are probably repeated in other documentaries for the band but there's alot of great stories regarding backstage shenanigans and onstage mishaps.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on May 11, 2017, 05:47:04 PM
So it's been about five years since the last one, but I was thinking of doing another Genesis Survivor over on the Polls & Survivors Forum side of DTF, but I wanted to gauge opinion and interest here regarding it before committing fully to it. Ideally, I'd love to see at least 10-12 participants throughout the whole thing, though I understand that some of their less-desirable albums will likely garner less than 6 or 7 votes, but I can be a little hopeful.

Basically, if there's enough interest here for fellow fans to play, then I'll get right on it. However, if it seems like it'll take awhile, then I may take my time on getting it set up.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on May 12, 2017, 02:17:01 AM
I'll be participating, at least for the majority of the albums.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on May 12, 2017, 05:37:00 AM
So it's been about five years since the last one, but I was thinking of doing another Genesis Survivor over on the Polls & Survivors Forum side of DTF, but I wanted to gauge opinion and interest here regarding it before committing fully to it. Ideally, I'd love to see at least 10-12 participants throughout the whole thing, though I understand that some of their less-desirable albums will likely garner less than 6 or 7 votes, but I can be a little hopeful.

Basically, if there's enough interest here for fellow fans to play, then I'll get right on it. However, if it seems like it'll take awhile, then I may take my time on getting it set up.

-Marc.

Not quite sure what you're about to do..
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Eldomm on May 12, 2017, 06:51:27 AM
I'll be participating, at least for the majority of the albums.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 13, 2017, 07:21:37 PM
Similar, yes, but I think it's safe to say that many people thought the original sound of Vapor Trails was pretty bad.  If they'd just fixed the sound issues without messing with the mix, it would have been nothing but a positive move.  But then it wouldn't have been Vapor Trails Remixed.  I guess Vapor Trail Remastered just doesn't roll off the tongue the same way.

Still, with the Genesis boxes, the original mixes were freakin' masterpieces, and the sound was also very good to start with.  Production and engineering on Genesis albums is always great.  So in this case, it was a matter of messing with it just to mess with it.  There was no need to "fix" anything.

It would have been positive if they made it sound better, but I'm not sure they did. It was kind of trade off with more negatives than positives.

I think they totally changed the vibe when it was remixed and ripped the balls off of it, but this is the Genesis thread so I'll stop there.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on May 15, 2017, 09:37:51 AM
If you believe what Steven Wilson said about the new Marillion Misplaced Childhood set, Davis HAD to do a new mix in order to make the new 5.1 mixes.   Whether he had to "fuck" with things or not is a different story, but while I'll keep the "Definitive Masters" I have, I don't have a problem with the new mixes.  I rarely listen to them anyway, in favor of the new 5.1 mixes.

As for a Survivor, I'm definitely in.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 15, 2017, 10:15:16 AM
I have no idea what Steven Wilson said regarding Misplaced Childhood, so why did Nick Davis HAVE to do a new mix on the Genesis 5.1's (and how is it relevant here)?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on May 15, 2017, 10:35:39 AM
https://www.superdeluxeedition.com/interview/steven-wilson-on-creating-a-5-1-mix-of-marillions-misplaced-childhood/

He claims to have to make a new stereo mix as the first step to creating the 5.1 mix.  I'm not a "mixer", so I don't know if that is a requirement across the board, or just his way of working. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 15, 2017, 11:21:29 AM
Hmm, interesting that he didn't really clarify exactly why he "had" to create the 2.0 mix before the 5.1.  With the Yes releases, it was part of the contract, but he didn't say why he did it with Misplaced Childhood.  He did say that he tried to get as close to the original 2.0 mix as possible, so my guess is that he prefers to do it that way.  Re-creating the 2.0 mix from the original multitracks would give him greater familiarity with the original tracks, and he can feel better prepared to create the 5.1 mixes.

Nick Davis may have gone through a similar thing with the Genesis remixes, but that's just conjecture based on conjecture.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PROGdrummer on May 18, 2017, 11:33:48 AM
So Steven Wilson doesnt like Genesis eh?
I call bullshit.  :lol
Come on Wilson, have you heard The Watchmaker? It's Cinema Show 2.0
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 18, 2017, 05:48:50 PM
So Steven Wilson doesnt like Genesis eh?
I call bullshit.  :lol
Come on Wilson, have you heard The Watchmaker? It's Cinema Show 2.0

Um, what?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PROGdrummer on May 18, 2017, 08:51:10 PM
So Steven Wilson doesnt like Genesis eh?
I call bullshit.  :lol
Come on Wilson, have you heard The Watchmaker? It's Cinema Show 2.0

Um, what?

https://www.facebook.com/pg/swremixes/posts/?ref=page_internal

I can't link the post directly, but in his post about the Marillion remixes he mentions not liking Genesis, only really liking Steve Hackett and Peter Gabriel solo-stuff. But that's got to be the biggest load of BS I've ever heard. He has to love at least the first 4 albums.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 18, 2017, 08:54:09 PM
The Watchmaker doesn't sound at all like The Cinema Show, hence the "Um, what?"  Oh, but wait, they both have an acoustic guitar, mellotron and flute!!!  :lol :facepalm:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PROGdrummer on May 18, 2017, 09:04:44 PM
The Watchmaker doesn't sound at all like The Cinema Show, hence the "Um, what?"  Oh, but wait, they both have an acoustic guitar, mellotron and flute!!!  :lol :facepalm:

And the "la la la" bit, and the overall structure of the song.   They're extremely similar in a lot of ways.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 18, 2017, 09:10:13 PM
Yeah, The Watchmaker has a several minutes long keyboard solo section just like The Cinema Show.

Oh wait, no it doesn't.

But wait, the second half of The Watchmaker is all instrumental just like The Cinema Show.

Oops, missed on that one, too.

But hey, at least The Watchmaker comes to an end with a slow crawl, leading into the album's last song.

What, it doesn't?  Damn.

Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: PROGdrummer on May 18, 2017, 10:53:46 PM
Yeah, The Watchmaker has a several minutes long keyboard solo section just like The Cinema Show.

Oh wait, no it doesn't.

But wait, the second half of The Watchmaker is all instrumental just like The Cinema Show.

Oops, missed on that one, too.

But hey, at least The Watchmaker comes to an end with a slow crawl, leading into the album's last song.

What, it doesn't?  Damn.

Yeesh. Didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. I'll take my opinion and stuff it back up my ass if that's what you'd prefer mister.

Actually, fuck it. Just ban this account please, I'll go back to lurking.  I forgot people on the internet got this testy about any opinions they didn't have. holy fuck.  :lol
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 19, 2017, 06:12:31 PM
WTF, simmer down, man.  I am not getting testy, just totally disagreeing with you in a sarcastic and smart ass way. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on May 19, 2017, 11:26:53 PM
Seriously guys...  Close your eyes and imagine Steve Hackett, Peter Gabriel, and Tony Banks having a full on prog rock super group.

Every time I hear modern IQ, I imagine that's what that imaginary supergroup would sound like.

IQ - The Province

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atkCHYjw5fA
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 20, 2017, 08:51:53 PM
Holy shit, this is good stuff!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on May 21, 2017, 07:44:21 AM
Seriously.   And the whole Frequency album is that good.   And the newer album Road of Bones is just as amazing.   

The only reason I put it here is because there are SO many moments when I feel like they are channeling "the Genesis that could have been"
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on May 21, 2017, 03:15:23 PM
I feel the same way about IQ. They even got better with the last two albums Frequency and The Road Of Bones, as you guys said. One of the best Neo-Prog bands.

Cant imagine Steven not liking Genesis. I do agree that The Watchmaker sounds lot like Genesis, but not Cinema Show especially. I'd go as far to say.. If you don't like Genesis, you don't like Progressive Rock. Genesis is the ultimate classic Progressive Rock band for me. Okay, now slaughter me :D
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 28, 2017, 08:11:44 PM
So Steven Wilson doesnt like Genesis eh?
I call bullshit.  :lol
Come on Wilson, have you heard The Watchmaker? It's Cinema Show 2.0

Um, what?

https://www.facebook.com/pg/swremixes/posts/?ref=page_internal

I can't link the post directly, but in his post about the Marillion remixes he mentions not liking Genesis, only really liking Steve Hackett and Peter Gabriel solo-stuff. But that's got to be the biggest load of BS I've ever heard. He has to love at least the first 4 albums.

I don't know if  that's how he really feels or not, but if it is the way he feels (about Gabriel-Genesis), I completely understand where he's coming from.





Never got into IQ either for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on May 30, 2017, 06:59:07 AM
So Steven Wilson doesnt like Genesis eh?
I call bullshit.  :lol
Come on Wilson, have you heard The Watchmaker? It's Cinema Show 2.0

Um, what?

https://www.facebook.com/pg/swremixes/posts/?ref=page_internal

I can't link the post directly, but in his post about the Marillion remixes he mentions not liking Genesis, only really liking Steve Hackett and Peter Gabriel solo-stuff. But that's got to be the biggest load of BS I've ever heard. He has to love at least the first 4 albums.

I'm not sure why "the first four albums" are the ones he "has to love".    The first two - Genesis to Revelations and Trespass - are sketchy at best, and show a band really searching for the door in a dark room.   Sure, Nursery Cryme is very strong, as is Foxtrot, but this idea that somehow the Peter era is the only real "prog" of Genesis is malarkey.   Balderdash.  Tomfoolery.  Hijinx.   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 30, 2017, 11:05:23 AM
A lot of people start counting Genesis albums with Nursery Cryme, which is when Phil Collins and Steve Hackett joined.  Many don't count Trespass, and many probably don't even know about From Genesis to Revelation.  To them, the "first four" are the four studio albums with Collins and Hackett.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 30, 2017, 05:32:02 PM
Trespass has The Knife, which is awesome.  That alone makes it worthy of mention.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 30, 2017, 06:26:04 PM
Maybe he means Trespass through Selling England by the Pound.  I don't have The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, but I can't remember the last time I played it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cyclopssss on May 31, 2017, 01:10:55 AM
I remember hearing 'Nursery Cryme' for the first time and my jaw hitting the ground.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on May 31, 2017, 05:29:43 AM
Steven must only make an exception here since this is with Steve Hackett? lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do2eVAwEa4A
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on May 31, 2017, 05:36:41 AM
Now I remember. Of course, he sang Can Utility on that album and mentioned it's his favorite Genesis track.

I think it's wrong to reduce Trespass on The Knife. The Live version of The Knife is way better anyway because of Phil. But Trespass has Stagnation, Dusk and Looking For Someone!! The latter one in a way is a predecessor of Dancing With The Moonlit Knight, in terms of structure and feeling.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on May 31, 2017, 05:41:47 AM
and White Mountain.

Trespass is on par with all of the Gabriel records sans for the debut.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 31, 2017, 09:57:02 AM
Maybe he means Trespass through Selling England by the Pound.  I don't have The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, but I can't remember the last time I played it.

Wow, weird typo.  I don't hate The Lamb.  Of course I have it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Herrick on August 25, 2017, 08:02:46 PM
Seriously guys...  Close your eyes and imagine Steve Hackett, Peter Gabriel, and Tony Banks having a full on prog rock super group.

Every time I hear modern IQ, I imagine that's what that imaginary supergroup would sound like.

IQ - The Province

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atkCHYjw5fA

That was very good. Mang, another band to check out. I came to this thread to learn more about Genesis because I've just started to check them out. Now I have to check out IQ.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on August 26, 2017, 09:58:54 AM
Speaking of Genesis, I saw The Neal Morse Band utterly destroy (in a good way) The Similitude of a Dream live last night.  I was struck in the live setting by how much that band owes to Gabriel era Genesis.  There are a number of keyboard parts that evoke memories of the Firth of Fifth-era Tony Banks sound (including one passage that reminisces about the intro itself).  Mike is channeling his inner Phil with the way the fills lead the music.   Neal uses costumes and effects - minimal, but impactful - to make the point of the lyrics, and even the stage set lends itself to comparisons with the band.


All this is to be incredibly complimentary; at no point did the NMB sound derivative, or like a rip.  But if you liked that sort of thing then, you may be able to experience it now.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Herrick on August 26, 2017, 01:31:48 PM
Speaking of Genesis, I saw The Neal Morse Band utterly destroy (in a good way) The Similitude of a Dream live last night.  I was struck in the live setting by how much that band owes to Gabriel era Genesis.  There are a number of keyboard parts that evoke memories of the Firth of Fifth-era Tony Banks sound (including one passage that reminisces about the intro itself).  Mike is channeling his inner Phil with the way the fills lead the music.   Neal uses costumes and effects - minimal, but impactful - to make the point of the lyrics, and even the stage set lends itself to comparisons with the band.


All this is to be incredibly complimentary; at no point did the NMB sound derivative, or like a rip.  But if you liked that sort of thing then, you may be able to experience it now.

I saw a live clip of a few songs from that last album...or perhaps it was one long song. It was a good performance. Portnoy dropped a stick, made some funny gesture, grabbed another stick and kept on playing like it was nothing :lol

I haven't heard the latest Neal Morse Band album yet but I've listened to The Grand Experiment once. I liked it enough to give it another listen. I kind of want to look more into older prog though so I might try to focus on '70s Genesis for now. But "gotdamn" I got distracted by this IQ band now.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on August 27, 2017, 11:20:02 AM
Speaking of Genesis, I saw The Neal Morse Band utterly destroy (in a good way) The Similitude of a Dream live last night.  I was struck in the live setting by how much that band owes to Gabriel era Genesis.  There are a number of keyboard parts that evoke memories of the Firth of Fifth-era Tony Banks sound (including one passage that reminisces about the intro itself).  Mike is channeling his inner Phil with the way the fills lead the music.   Neal uses costumes and effects - minimal, but impactful - to make the point of the lyrics, and even the stage set lends itself to comparisons with the band.


All this is to be incredibly complimentary; at no point did the NMB sound derivative, or like a rip.  But if you liked that sort of thing then, you may be able to experience it now.

Not a wholesale rip larger than a riff or two, but the derivation of a ton of influences is there and Gabriel-Genesis was but one of them. My wife and I were going back and forth a bit trying to pick them out.

That said, I thought it was the best Neal Morse show I've seen yet.  Neal really seems to have a blast when he's out there.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on August 27, 2017, 07:46:40 PM
I think that when Neal puts together a bunch of musicians of that calibre, it's gonna be pretty good stuff anyway.  If there are callouts to classic prog, blatant or subtle, that's fine.  It's all part of it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on August 27, 2017, 08:42:24 PM
Please don't misunderstand.  I wasn't saying it was derivative or a copy or anything like that.   I just was trying to paint a picture.  It was just touch points is all and a way to convey a sense of what it was like without using subjective terms. 

For me  was one of the most joyous concert experiences I've ever had.  I had a smile the entire time.  It was very uplifting, especially The Call.  If it was a secular band I would have no problem saying it was a religious experience, but that term is loaded here. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on August 27, 2017, 10:52:45 PM
If it was a secular band I would have no problem saying it was a religious experience, but that term is loaded here. 

Heh heh.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on August 28, 2017, 07:34:57 AM
If it was a secular band I would have no problem saying it was a religious experience, but that term is loaded here. 

Heh heh.

It was though; I was in a room with about 450 people, plus-minus, and there was more energy there than I've seen in some arena shows.    It was palpable.   The closest thing I can think of to what I saw was not a concert, but a southern Baptist funeral.  Where people just shout out or break into song as the case may be, and it's a CELEBRATION of the person's life, not a lament.    I have literally never smiled so much as at that Neal Morse Band show, and it's not even close.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on September 01, 2017, 01:14:15 PM
I was getting ready to take my 2 year old son to daycare this morning, and when I started up my car, the Three Sides Live version of Abacab came up on my iPod.  Not ten seconds into the song, my son shouts, "Dada! That's prog rock! That's prog rock!" I was a proud dad!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 01, 2017, 10:52:57 PM
When your 2-year-old recognizes and calls out prog rock, you're doing something right!  :tup

Also, synchronicity!  I just heard the Three Sides Live version of Abacab tonight in my car.  It came on shuffle on my iPod.  I love the keyboard/guitar duet jam at the end.  Great ending to a great song.  I was in a band back in the 80's and we did that version.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on September 03, 2017, 04:16:09 AM
I'm preaching to the choir here probably, but to me Phil Collins is one of the drumming greats of all time. He was incredible at creating beats that both perfectly complemented the song, and at the same time are unique and complex.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 03, 2017, 06:42:43 AM
Preach on!  For a while, he was also in the fusion band Brand X, and he brought some of the really crazy, adventurous riffage back to Genesis with him.  Phil was amazing in his prime.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on September 03, 2017, 01:49:31 PM
Please don't misunderstand.  I wasn't saying it was derivative or a copy or anything like that.   I just was trying to paint a picture.  It was just touch points is all and a way to convey a sense of what it was like without using subjective terms. 

For me  was one of the most joyous concert experiences I've ever had.  I had a smile the entire time.  It was very uplifting, especially The Call.  If it was a secular band I would have no problem saying it was a religious experience, but that term is loaded here.

Yup there were touch points.

I've had religious experiences at concerts before (Neal Morse concerts too.) but for whatever reason, that night wasn't one of them (although it was probably the best Neal Morse Band show I've seen.)

It's a great feeling when it happens. It was great you had that good of a time. I that feeling with the Testimony and Testimony II shows myself.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on September 03, 2017, 01:52:12 PM
When your 2-year-old recognizes and calls out prog rock, you're doing something right!  :tup

Also, synchronicity!  I just heard the Three Sides Live version of Abacab tonight in my car.  It came on shuffle on my iPod.  I love the keyboard/guitar duet jam at the end.  Great ending to a great song.  I was in a band back in the 80's and we did that version.

I'll admit to hitting the repeat button repeatedly for an hour while listening to this version in the car. I think it's my favorite live version of that song ever.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on September 03, 2017, 01:53:21 PM
Preach on!  For a while, he was also in the fusion band Brand X, and he brought some of the really crazy, adventurous riffage back to Genesis with him.  Phil was amazing in his prime.

I love Brand X. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm pulling some of this off of the shelf tonight.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on September 04, 2017, 06:08:41 AM
I'm preaching to the choir here probably, but to me Phil Collins is one of the drumming greats of all time. He was incredible at creating beats that both perfectly complemented the song, and at the same time are unique and complex.

Agreed. The blinding hatred many have for Collins the pop star has made his greatness as a drummer something that many now overlook or have simply forgotten.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 04, 2017, 08:45:38 AM
Interesting way to put it, but yeah that's pretty much it, for a lot of people anyway.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on September 04, 2017, 08:47:09 AM
When your 2-year-old recognizes and calls out prog rock, you're doing something right!  :tup

Also, synchronicity!  I just heard the Three Sides Live version of Abacab tonight in my car.  It came on shuffle on my iPod.  I love the keyboard/guitar duet jam at the end.  Great ending to a great song.  I was in a band back in the 80's and we did that version.

I'll admit to hitting the repeat button repeatedly for an hour while listening to this version in the car. I think it's my favorite live version of that song ever.

Agreed.  It was my favorite song off the album when my dad played it when I was a kid.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 04, 2017, 11:10:46 AM
I'm preaching to the choir here probably, but to me Phil Collins is one of the drumming greats of all time. He was incredible at creating beats that both perfectly complemented the song, and at the same time are unique and complex.

He's in my "Mt. Rushmore" of drumming (with Peart, Portnoy and Bonham).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on September 04, 2017, 11:39:37 PM
I'm preaching to the choir here probably, but to me Phil Collins is one of the drumming greats of all time. He was incredible at creating beats that both perfectly complemented the song, and at the same time are unique and complex.

Agreed. The blinding hatred many have for Collins the pop star has made his greatness as a drummer something that many now overlook or have simply forgotten.

And even as a pop star he has some really good tunes, his first couple solo records are pop done ambitious and right.

Later in his career he gets cheesy as f*ck and there was a time where you had the feeling that Phil Collins was everywhere, probably the hate stems from that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: NoseofNicko on September 04, 2017, 11:49:51 PM
Just how amazing and beautiful is Mad Man Moon? That song really does give me the feels.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 05, 2017, 06:37:40 AM
Great song!  I love the whole song, but that instrumental break is incredible.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: rumborak on September 05, 2017, 07:43:47 AM
And even as a pop star he has some really good tunes, his first couple solo records are pop done ambitious and right.

Later in his career he gets cheesy as f*ck and there was a time where you had the feeling that Phil Collins was everywhere, probably the hate stems from that.

His first two solo albums are amazing, and contain some really cool and edgy stuff. The roof is leaking, Thru these walls ... all really awesome stuff.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 05, 2017, 08:55:10 AM
And even as a pop star he has some really good tunes, his first couple solo records are pop done ambitious and right.

Later in his career he gets cheesy as f*ck and there was a time where you had the feeling that Phil Collins was everywhere, probably the hate stems from that.

His first two solo albums are amazing, and contain some really cool and edgy stuff. The roof is leaking, Thru these walls ... all really awesome stuff.

I put No Jacket Required in that category as well; the problem is that the first two singles were "One More Night" and "Sussudio", which in my estimation are BY FAR (not even close) the worst songs on the album.  "Only You Know And I Know", "Who Said I Would", "Inside Out" and "Take Me Home" are outstanding, even by the standards of the first two albums.   It's the next album, where he "expanded his focus to the exploration of socio-economic and political themes" (from Wikipedia) that he really lost me. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Polarbear on September 05, 2017, 09:26:33 AM
And even as a pop star he has some really good tunes, his first couple solo records are pop done ambitious and right.

Later in his career he gets cheesy as f*ck and there was a time where you had the feeling that Phil Collins was everywhere, probably the hate stems from that.

His first two solo albums are amazing, and contain some really cool and edgy stuff. The roof is leaking, Thru these walls ... all really awesome stuff.

I Don't Care Anymore is so good!

I Love his early solo albums. No Jacket Required is pretty decent as well...
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on September 06, 2017, 04:28:36 PM
Bailed on Coillns' solo albums after Hello, I Must Be Going. (Well that's not quite true. The Big Band and R&B albums are killer too.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on September 07, 2017, 05:47:35 AM
I think But Seriously is awesome as well. The trumpet intro alone is killer! Phils drumming on the album is super powerful.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on September 07, 2017, 12:02:29 PM
I met Mike Rutherford today!!! Very proud and still shaking a little :O

(https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21432973_10210085918801556_3352107707957457492_n.jpg?oh=6f1337d58e46652b877a2b9244a9580c&oe=5A4D8EA5)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on September 07, 2017, 12:11:31 PM
Awesome :omg:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 07, 2017, 12:21:35 PM
Cool!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 07, 2017, 12:33:29 PM
He looks good! (You both do, but he's got more miles than you, so he gets the compliment!)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on September 18, 2017, 02:44:46 PM
I met Mike Rutherford today!!! Very proud and still shaking a little :O

(https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21432973_10210085918801556_3352107707957457492_n.jpg?oh=6f1337d58e46652b877a2b9244a9580c&oe=5A4D8EA5)

Nice!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on October 24, 2017, 08:28:52 PM
LEGO GENESIS

https://www.musicalbrick.com/store/mini-figures/
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on October 24, 2017, 09:10:35 PM
I met Mike Rutherford today!!! Very proud and still shaking a little :O

(https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21432973_10210085918801556_3352107707957457492_n.jpg?oh=6f1337d58e46652b877a2b9244a9580c&oe=5A4D8EA5)

How'd you manage that?  Was he doing a Mechanics show?

It's a shame he will probably never tour the states.  Even though I really couldn't get into the Mechanics I would still go in a heartbeat.  Plus, they cover two Genesis songs that sound pretty good. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on October 24, 2017, 10:26:07 PM
LEGO GENESIS

https://www.musicalbrick.com/store/mini-figures/

Those look amazing.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dave_Manchester on December 08, 2017, 04:34:15 PM
Dusted off Trespass a few days ago and have given it a few listens after a break of many years. What a wonderful album, and a massive step-up from their debut. It's difficult to believe they were barely out of their teens when they wrote these songs. Looking For Someone, White Mountain, Visions of Angels (did they later quote from this song on Dodo/Lurker, the 'choral' part?), what an incredible opening 3 songs. And the 2nd half has The Knife and Stagnation, 2 classics. 

This is a gem of a prog album, it may even be my favourite of the Gabriel albums.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 08, 2017, 08:45:52 PM
:tup

Definitely an overlooked Genesis gem, because it was before the "classic" five-piece lineup with Collins and Hackett.  An excellent album.  ♫♫
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on December 10, 2017, 08:00:31 AM
Dusted off Trespass a few days ago and have given it a few listens after a break of many years. What a wonderful album, and a massive step-up from their debut. It's difficult to believe they were barely out of their teens when they wrote these songs. Looking For Someone, White Mountain, Visions of Angels (did they later quote from this song on Dodo/Lurker, the 'choral' part?), what an incredible opening 3 songs. And the 2nd half has The Knife and Stagnation, 2 classics. 

This is a gem of a prog album, it may even be my favourite of the Gabriel albums.

The only song you left out is Dusk, which I also love very much! One of those acoustic, impressionistic Genesis dreams.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on January 04, 2018, 02:10:46 AM
First post in this thread for 2018, and I have an odd question. So I'm listening to Unitopia's Genesis Medley and they covered "Silent Sun" from Genesis' debut album. Other than that and Echolyn covering "Where The Sour Turns To Sweet", does anyone else know any bands that have covered songs from From Genesis To Revelation?

I've always hoped that Nick D'Virgilio's Rewiring Genesis could give FGTR a make-over given the use of strings and horns on their cover of TLLDOB would work well to cover the debut album, and maybe make it flow a bit better with new/smoother song transitions.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on January 04, 2018, 07:06:00 AM
Genesis do not own the rights to From Genesis To Revelation.  Jonathan King set it up so that he would retain total control over the album and the recordings.  That's why Genesis themselves never played anything from it after they fired him, why it has never been remastered along with the rest of the Genesis catalog, and why a "new" "lost" early Genesis album shows up every so often with the same songs, a different track order, and maybe an alternate version or outtake or two.  I'm sure Nick couldn't even get his hands on it and/or they/Genesis didn't think it was worth it to approach King about it.

I'm actually surprised that anyone has covered songs from that album, because that would require permission not from Genesis, but from Jonathan King.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on January 04, 2018, 07:28:41 AM
Genesis do not own the rights to From Genesis To Revelation.  Jonathan King set it up so that he would retain total control over the album and the recordings.  That's why Genesis themselves never played anything from it after they fired him, why it has never been remastered along with the rest of the Genesis catalog, and why a "new" "lost" early Genesis album shows up every so often with the same songs, a different track order, and maybe an alternate version or outtake or two.  I'm sure Nick couldn't even get his hands on it and/or they/Genesis didn't think it was worth it to approach King about it.

I'm actually surprised that anyone has covered songs from that album, because that would require permission not from Genesis, but from Jonathan King.

Plus, I think they don't consider the music on that album as very good.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on January 04, 2018, 11:54:37 AM
I've never read anything that would indicate that.  I've been a fan for 40 years, and while I can't say I remember everything I've read regarding the band, I don't remember anything that would indicate that they're not proud of that first album.  Actually, it very rarely comes up at all in interviews, possibly because many people don't even know that it exists.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on January 04, 2018, 12:46:06 PM
Well, remember too that the first album was a song showcase.  They wrote songs and rather than have someone else play them, they recorded them themselves.   Not so much with Trespass, but when Phil joined, they morphed into more of a performing group. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on January 06, 2018, 08:15:17 PM
So... no one else has ever covered anything from FGTR, be it live or in the studio, full song or snippets/medley?  :lol

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on January 06, 2018, 11:00:48 PM
I guess not.


 :yarr
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on January 12, 2018, 07:50:22 AM
Tony Banks has released a new 15 minute piece for piano and orchestra, PRELUDE TO A MILLION YEARS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF69G7IkcBs&feature=youtu.be
His new album, consisting of classical compositions, will be released on 23rd of February.

I've been listening to quite a lot of the early Collins phase of Genesis and I am constantly amazed by Tony's compositions. I mean again and again, every time I listen to them. I think the guy is a freakin genius. One For The Vine, Mad Man Moon, Burning Rope - those songs are just fantastic pieces of art.

His ability for great melodies and interesting arrangements and chord progressions are found in his classical compositions, too. This one is a beauty as well.
As much as I enjoy his classical albums (with no desire whatsoever to land a "hit" or so) - I'd love those talents in a rock band again. His rock/pop albums have never been the best, but here he shows that he CAN when he WANTS.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on January 12, 2018, 08:28:47 AM
He definitely wants to, but his issue is finding people to work with who will bring out his best.  You've named three of my favorite Genesis songs, all clearly Tony Banks compositions, but he seems to need someone else to either focus his efforts properly, or add to and refine them.  His solo albums all have great ideas never fully realized into great songs.  Nearly all the songs fall in the "okay, has a lot of potential, but is missing something" category.  A strong lead singer, a better hook, something.  His solo albums are usually himself and a bunch of mostly unknowns.  It's like he writes all the time, and one day he notices that he has enough songs for an album, so he throws together a mediocre band and records them, hoping it'll be good.  Nope.  Maybe next time.  Strictly, Inc. is probably my favorite, the closest thing to a decent album by an actual band, but by that point I think Tony was out of ideas in the Pop genre and took a break, emerging later as a neo-classical composer.

Tony was very, very fortunate to have met Peter Gabriel, Ant Phillips, and Mike Rutherford very early and forming Genesis.  His talents seem to work best in a group scenario.  His classical albums ("Seven" and "Six") are both great, with excellent compositions, arrangements and orchestrations, but they still fall to background music when I put them on.  In the car, I'll realize I'm not even paying attention at some point.  At home, I'll put one on and shortly after, I'll turn on the TV with no sound, or play on my phone or something because the music alone isn't enough to keep my attention.  It sounds amazing, but still somehow doesn't captivate.

I do look forward to his next album, "Five", from which this is the opening track.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on January 12, 2018, 09:19:44 AM
While "One For The Vine" is one of my favorite Genesis songs ever, I think "Me And Sarah Jane" is his best composition from a technical standpoint.   If memory serves, it sounds like a cute pop song, but it's actually (and again, going from memory here) five sections that follow each other but do not repeat.    So in "ABACAB" parlance - the album it comes from (and a reference to the structure of the title track, "part A, Part B, part A again, Part C, part A again, part B again", even though the song doesn't technically follow that scheme) - it is "ABCDE".    Genius. 

He also wrote what I often say is my favorite Genesis song, and a song that makes me cry often:  "Evidence of Autumn".   That passage -

"But that was many years ago
And though the pain is dim
A something still remains
Though you hardly can recall
Her face or form
Her memory lingers on"

Slays me every time.

This is along other great songs like "All In A Mouse's Night", "Cul-de-Sac", "Heathaze", and his solo "Shortcut To Somewhere".
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on January 12, 2018, 01:00:39 PM
I'm glad you mentioned Cul-de-Sac. This often forgotten song amazes me. Extremely intelligent harmonies, fantastic playing by Collins (as per usual) and a quite a few rhythmical knacks here and there - all squeezed into 5 very concise minutes.

Also, I agree, Banks was fortunate to have met the guys. But they were just as fortunate. I mean, in the end, Banks was the mastermind behind Genesis. He wrote crazy good stuff before Collins even realized he could write anything. Most of the greatest ideas from the 70-80 eras came from Tony. The intro to Firth, The Cinema Show and Supper's Ready keyboard solos, next to the songs we already mentioned. But I agree, the other dudes helped in making these ideas into some of the best music I have ever heard. That's what probably made Genesis so incredibly good. Perfect musical chemistry (although probably perfect personal chemistry wasn't present all the time). Plus, each of their own proved they had a buttload of talent in them with their own solo career. But all of them together in one band? Wow.

Have you ever imagined the following thing: Imagine if Genesis never existed, but all of the members had started solo careers from the beginning. Each and everyone makes cool music. They somehow got in touch and THEN formed a "supergroup" together called Genesis (like a lot of Prog musicians do in todays times). I wonder what would have been the result of that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on January 12, 2018, 01:27:38 PM
I think like anyone else, things aren't always perfect, but if you watch the DVD videos on the box sets (with the 5.1 mixes) the respect, love and admiration that Tony, Mike, Phil and Pete in particular have for each other is just amazing.   I think there's a lot of respect and "like" for Steve Hackett, but with the other four, it goes to the next level.   They weren't just "in a band together" like many of the big acts today. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 12, 2018, 05:31:25 PM
I'm glad you mentioned Cul-de-Sac. This often forgotten song amazes me. Extremely intelligent harmonies, fantastic playing by Collins (as per usual) and a quite a few rhythmical knacks here and there - all squeezed into 5 very concise minutes.

Also, I agree, Banks was fortunate to have met the guys. But they were just as fortunate. I mean, in the end, Banks was the mastermind behind Genesis. He wrote crazy good stuff before Collins even realized he could write anything. Most of the greatest ideas from the 70-80 eras came from Tony. The intro to Firth, The Cinema Show and Supper's Ready keyboard solos, next to the songs we already mentioned.

...and a lot of the lyrics too!  I don't know if it's ever been broken down song by song but I got the impression that Tony wrote more than half of the lyrics, at least after Gabriel left.  Rutherford wrote some and towards the end Phil started writing more. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on January 13, 2018, 09:59:03 AM
Stads, I'm glad you mentioned Mouse's Night.   There are lots of people that treat that song like a throw away from the Mach II era, but I absolutely LOVE that song.   The juxtaposition of the music when the story changes back and forth from the couple to the mouse is just brilliant. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on January 14, 2018, 07:51:33 AM
Stads, I'm glad you mentioned Mouse's Night.   There are lots of people that treat that song like a throw away from the Mach II era, but I absolutely LOVE that song.   The juxtaposition of the music when the story changes back and forth from the couple to the mouse is just brilliant.

I love the musical crescendo when the cat get's his comeuppance. 

It got ragged on a lot when Phil himself made fun of singing about "bread bins" (as if the rest of the Genesis catalogue is all about Satan, banging broads and doing blow). 

It's sort of a touchy subject around here for some, and he's nowhere near as overt as Neal, but I also get a vaguely religious vibe from many of Tony's lyrics.   Again, not preachy, but certainly with an underlying message if you're the kind to dig for them.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 08, 2018, 12:54:09 AM
I listened to DUKE a lot in the last days and did anyone notice how phenomenal Phils drum work is on this record? Just listen to Duke's End.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 08, 2018, 06:51:32 AM
I still have a five-disc changer in the stereo in the living room, and Duke permanently resides in the Disc 1 tray.

The other day, I came home from work plopped my ass in my easy chair, and turned on the tunes.  Back when I was in school, this would have been the most natural thing in the world.  Walk into my bedroom, or my dorm, and fire up the tunes.  I didn't have a TV in either of those places back in the day, so that wasn't an option anyway.  But at some point I realized that the norm was to come home and turn on the idiot box, just because it was there.  And there's never anything good on TV anyway.  Anything I actually wanted to watch, I'd recorded on the DVR, which means looking through the list, and finding something to invest the next 45 minutes into.  Screw that.  Easier to put on some tunes.  I'm glad I figured that out.

So anyway, now the default is to come home on put on some Genesis, if there's no one else around.  (Disc 2 is Foxtrot, by the way.)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 08, 2018, 07:07:14 AM
I feel ya. When ever I come home, I FIRST put on an LP and THEN I take off my jacket.
I tend to listen to bands on heavy rotation for some time and then I get into something else (again) and listen to that on heavy rotation. But ever few weeks, Genesis comes back to heavy rotation and EVERY TIME I am amazed by their music.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on April 08, 2018, 08:27:02 AM
I listened to DUKE a lot in the last days and did anyone notice how phenomenal Phils drum work is on this record? Just listen to Duke's End.

yes. It may be his best drum performance ever.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on April 08, 2018, 08:36:10 AM
I know that many hate the gated drum sound that Collins popularized, but he really was a terrific drummer in is day.  Turn It on Again is one helluva groove.  Put that song in the hands of a drummer who couldn't make the song move like that and it wouldn't have been nearly as effective.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 08, 2018, 09:54:35 AM
Good thing Chester Thompson is one of those guys who could make it move. But whenever Phil would go take a seat behind his kit, the song gained a whole new level of groove. This was the case with every song where he did that during live shows imo.

He became popular with his tom-rich playing but I think, his Hi-Hat and Snare chops are just as awesome (Dance On A Volcano, Behind The Lines Face Value Version, Cinema Show).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 08, 2018, 12:31:54 PM
A lot of the Genesis playing DIDN'T overplay that gated sound; the problem is that the hits - his, Genesis, and Gabriel - had them, so they stuck in the collective consciousness. 

From that period, he plays some pretty intricate and subtle stuff on Plant's first two solo albums as well. 

Finally, I've said it before, but that notion of the band going to the next level when he goes back and joins Chester, my favorite recorded musical moment is that part of the "In The Cage" medley after the "In The Cage" portion when he goes back and the band just starts to roar.   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 08, 2018, 05:20:05 PM
The double-drumming stuff that Phil and Chester did live was incredible.  Also very cool visually, with the mirror-image symmetry of Phil (left-handed) and Chester (right-handed) with Tony in the middle, Mike and Daryl out front.  We saw them on The Mama Tour (yellow album) and it was astounding.

I think my favorite jam by those five is the Abacab jam, or maybe Duke's Travels, but the In The Cage medley is pretty sweet, too! :tup
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Silent Man on April 12, 2018, 07:46:30 AM
I listened to DUKE a lot in the last days and did anyone notice how phenomenal Phils drum work is on this record? Just listen to Duke's End.

I loved his drumming from the beginning when I started listening to Genesis in the 70s - and it just became better and better. Great technical skills with a touch of jazz (which I like), and then singing and songwriting skills on top of it all. His performance in When In Rome was fanatastic, both as a drummer and a singer /showman (and that goes for the rest of the band as well). Just imagine performing in front of 500.000 ppl and not making one wrong step. Such a shame that he had to stop drumming. I know he had a sort of successful neck surgery, but haven't heard if it would be possible for him to start drumming again. Honestly I think he has given it up.
In many ways I compare him with Bill Bruford from Yes (drumming skills alone) - he was as distinctive and drumming-wise as talented as Phil, just another style of drumming. And they also both did some fusion /jazz work additionally - BB with 'Bruford' and Phil with Brand X. It's really seldom in these days to hear a drummer which can be recognized on his sound alone.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 12, 2018, 08:01:08 AM
Phil is on my drumming Mt. Rushmore (John, Neil, Mike and Phil) and it still amazes me how he moved from style to style, played it well, but still kept his identity.   

I saw the Musical Box a couple weeks ago - second row, right in front of the drummer - and the arrangements just blew me away (again!!).   I found myself following the drum cues through out the show and it was really really good. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 12, 2018, 09:03:17 AM
Phil is on my drumming Mt. Rushmore (John, Neil, Mike and Phil) and it still amazes me how he moved from style to style, played it well, but still kept his identity.   

I saw the Musical Box a couple weeks ago - second row, right in front of the drummer - and the arrangements just blew me away (again!!).   I found myself following the drum cues through out the show and it was really really good.

He's quite possibly my favorite drummer ever. It's not understandable to me that many people don't even know he is a drummer :D
It's not only the Genesis stuff. His drumming on, say, Face Value, Hello! I Must or But Seriously is just as awesome.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on April 15, 2018, 10:31:08 AM
or Brand X? (Marscape especially).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 16, 2018, 11:49:09 AM
The last Genesis item arrived the other day, finally completing my Genesis collection, after years of searching and saving up (and spending way too much!) money. Very proud of this.

I also have all albums from From Genesis To Revelation to We Can't Dance as original issues, including all the live albums. But that's too much to portray it like this. Calling All Stations is just too expensive to get as 1997 version.

Oh I almost forgot: The last item to arrive was the green vinyl box set. I saved the best for last.

(https://image.ibb.co/j2RNCS/IMG_8337.jpg)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 16, 2018, 12:49:01 PM
Most impressive!  Obi-wan has taught you well.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on April 16, 2018, 01:17:03 PM
awesome!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 16, 2018, 07:29:23 PM
The last Genesis item arrived the other day, finally completing my Genesis collection, after years of searching and saving up (and spending way too much!) money. Very proud of this.

I also have all albums from From Genesis To Revelation to We Can't Dance as original issues, including all the live albums. But that's too much to portray it like this. Calling All Stations is just too expensive to get as 1997 version.

Oh I almost forgot: The last item to arrive was the green vinyl box set. I saved the best for last.

(https://image.ibb.co/j2RNCS/IMG_8337.jpg)

Nice!

That almost looks like my Rush collection...
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 17, 2018, 11:21:38 AM
Thanks! I wish they would release the live albums as such a box set that would be so neato, since Live Over Europe does not exist on vinyl and The Way We Walk is split up into short and long songs (who the fuck had that idea anyway).
It would be cool if they did the same with unreleased stuff and B-Sides etc. But I think that's VERY unlikely to happen.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 17, 2018, 11:35:46 AM
So what "Calling All Stations" are you looking for?  Specifically?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 17, 2018, 02:13:58 PM
So what "Calling All Stations" are you looking for?  Specifically?

I have the CD and the 2007 vinyl from the boxes. But of all other albums I have older issues as well. But the original CAS vinyl is not so easy to get and I already have the new one to listen to.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 18, 2018, 12:27:26 AM
I would like to keep this discussion up, so: I have been listening to We Can't Dance the past days (I know right, he gets the green box sets and then listens to WCD!?) and I think it's actually a pretty good album. It doesn't have the triggered, programmed (whatever you want to call it) drums from Invisible Touch and Genesis. I am talking about those specific sounds in Second Home By The Sea, Silver Rainbow, Invisible Touch, Tonight, etc. The drums here are overproduced as hell (as is the whole album) but I think it just sounds awesome. The first time I really listened to No Son Of Mine and the snare came in like a slap in the face - I was pretty impressed. If a snare is triggered - please trigger it like this.

Plus, the album has some great songs. The mentioned No So Son of mine is way too long and thought through to be a single, but still it was one - and a huge hit at that. Jesus He Knows Me is saved by Phils groovy drumming and belongs in the funny, sarcastic department of Robber, Assault, Just A Job, Harold The Barrel, Scenes From A Night's Dream. I even like Tell Me Why quite a bit, the harmonies are not stupid (Tony!) and it grooves. Sure, lyrics are a little flat, but still a good song. Did I say groove? Listen to the last minutes of Living Forever. Two of the best minutes of the album. This is a great example of how few Collins needs to make something groove. And the ending fill is awesome. Man what a drummer.
There's also two 10 minute songs, of which I personally like Fading Lights better. The keyboard solo (Tony!) in the middle reminds of older days. The whole song sounds like a swan song - which it was for in retrospective for the trio (not sure if they knew so though).
Dreaming While You Sleep is a Mama/In The Air Tonight like song (I dont want to say copy): drum machine, Collins eery vocals, HUGE toms, cymbal-free drums. I gotta say I also like Hold On My Heart, because of Tonys unconventional harmonies (Tony!).

There are two songs I would have included into the album: On The Shoreline and Hearts On Fire, which should have replaced Never A Time and Since I Lost You or Way Of The World imo. Two awesome tunes.

This got a bit out of hand I didn't want to write so much but then I did :-D
What do you think about this album? I think it's a bit underrated among Genesis and Prog fans, but in a lot of ways it takes more time to build up songs and set moods than the loud, happy, dancy Invisible Touch. And it's not really a prog-free album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: NoseofNicko on April 18, 2018, 12:46:32 AM
I think We Cant Dance is a very good pop album. I like most of the songs on it. The title track is absolutely terrible though.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on April 18, 2018, 12:48:39 AM
There are two songs I would have included into the album: On The Shoreline and Hearts On Fire, which should have replaced Never A Time and Since I Lost You or Way Of The World imo. Two awesome tunes.

Oh I agree with you, those are two great songs.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on April 18, 2018, 01:19:19 AM
We Can't Dance is a great record but it's a bit too long. Some of the ballads are too cheesy and do nothing for me, so they could have ditched one or two.

Driving The Last Spike is where its at for me. Fading Lights is great too. And I even like I Can't Dance, funny little tune and Genesis doing AC/DC-riffs is not what you would have expected.  :metal

Genesis and Invisible Touch were a little too much no the poppy side but this record, at least for me, is the perfect blend of the more accessible pop tunes and some great proggier ones. Wouldn't have minded if they had continued in that direction.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on April 18, 2018, 05:59:51 AM
Fading Lights is easily a top 10 Genesis song for me. Such a strong track, and a great "farewell" to this version of the band. I think We Can't Dance could've been shortened by two tracks (Never A Time and Tell Me Why) and the rest of the songs also seem a bit bloated and could use some trimming. But I think the songs are all pretty listenable.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dave_Manchester on April 18, 2018, 06:13:13 AM
Re: We Can't Dance, there's a great album in there somewhere, but it's just far too long, making it only a good one. I'm a fan of keeping albums to around the 40-45 minute mark (it served all the classics well). I'd have put it out with this track-listing:

No Son Of Mine
Jesus He Knows Me
Driving The Last Spike
I Can't Dance
Dreaming While You Sleep
On The Shoreline
Living Forever
Fading Lights

As for the songs, Driving The Last Spike is my favourite Genesis track, and No Son Of Mine is probably top 10 material.


Fritzinger, I have a question - that picture you posted, those vinyls are all Genesis??
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on April 18, 2018, 06:16:04 AM
Tell Me Why needs more love here. A fine poppy track with a 12 string guitar throughout.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dave_Manchester on April 18, 2018, 06:32:19 AM
Musically it's ok but it's a rare example of a song where the lyrics are just so distractingly awful (and in this case inappropriate given the upbeat poppy feel of the music) that it takes away from my enjoyment. Usually I can tune bad lyrics out, but with that one I can't. I'm generally not a fan of musicians taking on 'serious issues' in their songs, because most of them don't seem to have a clue what they're talking about and end up trivialising whatever issue they're claiming to care about (Phil himself said he saw a news report about the plight of the Kurdish people and "mixed it" with his 'thoughts' on Bangladesh and Ethiopia in order to write the lyrics), but posing a series of infantile rhetorical questions about the Gulf War set to a bouncy pop melody is just a step too far into the cringe-worthy for me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on April 18, 2018, 07:20:03 AM
Re: We Can't Dance, there's a great album in there somewhere, but it's just far too long, making it only a good one. I'm a fan of keeping albums to around the 40-45 minute mark (it served all the classics well). I'd have put it out with this track-listing:

No Son Of Mine
Jesus He Knows Me
Driving The Last Spike
I Can't Dance
Dreaming While You Sleep
On The Shoreline
Living Forever
Fading Lights

As for the songs, Driving The Last Spike is my favourite Genesis track, and No Son Of Mine is probably top 10 material.


Fritzinger, I have a question - that picture you posted, those vinyls are all Genesis??

I did the same with We Can't Dance and did this tracklisting:

No Son of Mine
Jesus He Knows Me
Driving the Last Spike
Dreaming While You Sleep
On the Shoreline
Living Forever
Hold on my Heart
Fading Lights

I thought about keeping the title track, but I like the overall darker vibe this tracklisting provides.  That, and I like Hold On My Heart.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 18, 2018, 08:11:06 AM
I agree the lyrics are not their best in Tell Me Why. Forgive me, I still like the tune.

No Son Of Mine
Jesus He Knows Me
Driving The Last Spike
Dreaming While You Sleep
Tell Me Why
On The Shoreline
Hearts On Fire
Living Forever
Hold On My Heart
Fading Lights

That's still 64 minutes of music.
BTW, there is a 12" remix of I Can't Dance. That's pretty cool.


@Dave:
No that is my whole collection :) It's about 800 records.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 18, 2018, 08:44:05 AM
I enjoy that album very much, but agree with almost all the sentiments here - too long, sometimes the lyrics get a bit treacly, sometimes a bit too preachy, but instrumentally, that's a strong album.   I too love that last section of "Living Forever", and was a very big fan of the way Fading Lights was presented on stage (with just the three members playing).   

Look, I'm biased, though, because for me, any album that has Phil Collins drumming and Tony Banks playing keyboards is automatically a winner for me.   Yeah, there are songs here and there - I LOVE the "Genesis" album as a whole, but "That's All" is in my top five worst Genesis songs ever, and I LOVE Invisible Touch even though I could do without "In Too Deep", and "Land Of Confusion" is ruined now because of those ridiculous puppets - but I'm a fan of the way those two gentlemen play their instruments. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 18, 2018, 10:48:37 AM
was a very big fan of the way Fading Lights was presented on stage (with just the three members playing).

I didn't realize that they did that.  Pretty cool, and a clear throwback to The Cinema Show, the instrumental section of which was always performed by just Tony, Mike, and Phil, even when Peter and Steve were still in the band.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 18, 2018, 11:43:35 AM
was a very big fan of the way Fading Lights was presented on stage (with just the three members playing).

I didn't realize that they did that.  Pretty cool, and a clear throwback to The Cinema Show, the instrumental section of which was always performed by just Tony, Mike, and Phil, even when Peter and Steve were still in the band.

And I didn't realize they did that. Why wouldn't they let Steve play on that part? Poor Steve.

I was gonna say (but forgot) that I like the Genesis album quite a lot, too. Only thing is, I love That's All. I think Illegal Alien is a little too fun and a little too long. Just A Job To Do is a cool 70s groover (in the 80s!), although I never got why Tony would imitate a guitar when it could have been played by Rutherford (at least on the studio version, since there is another "actual" guitar playing too). Silver Rainbow is very good, but it would have been way better with a real drum set and a real groove. Same with Second Home. It's Gonna Get Better is often overlooked. But I think it's one of the best songs on the album, with its peculiar string samples and the slow 6/4 groove.
I don't think I have to say anything about Home By The Sea.. and ... Mama. Freakin MAMA.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 18, 2018, 12:40:04 PM
I just came home and listened to Fading Lights again, man what a song. Those drums...

I think this song was written specifically to be performed by just the three of them. Collins only sings when there's no "real" drums, then he walks back to the set and hits the shit out of it.
I don't know if they knew that this would be their last album together. Maybe they wanted to really go out as a trio, given that this song really sounds like a goodbye, a swan song. Plus, cmon, the name is Fading Lights.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 18, 2018, 02:04:14 PM
That's how I've always interpreted it.  It's a song about the end of something that was very cool, but it's the end and we should accept it.  And that's what it was until Tony and Mike couldn't help themselves and made Calling All Stations years later.

was a very big fan of the way Fading Lights was presented on stage (with just the three members playing).

I didn't realize that they did that.  Pretty cool, and a clear throwback to The Cinema Show, the instrumental section of which was always performed by just Tony, Mike, and Phil, even when Peter and Steve were still in the band.

And I didn't realize they did that. Why wouldn't they let Steve play on that part? Poor Steve.

I don't know if it was a matter of "letting" him play.  There's no guitar during that whole 7/8 jam, or if there is, he's just accenting or something.  I think of it as like when the singer leaves for a while when there's a long instrumental.  If there's no guitar, or keyboards or whatever, for an extended section, might as well take a break.  It was just a "special" thing they did during The Cinema Show jam.  Looking at it now, it's probably one of the many things that led to Steve feeling a bit like a less-than-full member of the band or something.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dave_Manchester on April 18, 2018, 02:05:04 PM
@Dave:
No that is my whole collection :) It's about 800 records.

Ah, fair enough! I thought maybe you collected different copies/pressings of every album and Genesis-related solo project (I noticed Peter Gabriel's Real World Records logo on a few of them). There's a Pink Floyd fan on Youtube who has hundreds of Floyd vinyl, even though they only released 15 albums.

You have a great collection by the way. I love those Genesis box sets.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 18, 2018, 02:09:15 PM
That's how I've always interpreted it.  It's a song about the end of something that was very cool, but it's the end and we should accept it.  And that's what it was until Tony and Mike couldn't help themselves and made Calling All Stations years later.

was a very big fan of the way Fading Lights was presented on stage (with just the three members playing).

I didn't realize that they did that.  Pretty cool, and a clear throwback to The Cinema Show, the instrumental section of which was always performed by just Tony, Mike, and Phil, even when Peter and Steve were still in the band.

And I didn't realize they did that. Why wouldn't they let Steve play on that part? Poor Steve.

I don't know if it was a matter of "letting" him play.  There's no guitar during that whole 7/8 jam, or if there is, he's just accenting or something.  I think of it as like when the singer leaves for a while when there's a long instrumental.  If there's no guitar, or keyboards or whatever, for an extended section, might as well take a break.  It was just a "special" thing they did during The Cinema Show jam.  Looking at it now, it's probably one of the many things that led to Steve feeling a bit like a less-than-full member of the band or something.

I just saw The Musical Box a couple weeks ago, and they recreate it like that, and it's the highlight of the show for me.  Really, really cool. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 18, 2018, 02:34:42 PM
Cool!  Great that they do it that way, and of course I'd expect nothing less from The Musical Box.  I've never seen them, but have had many, many recommendations.  Their attention to detail is legendary.

Also, the jam itself is amazing.  Just the other day in the car, I was playing the live version from Seconds Out, and at one point I just exclaimed "Man, listen to Phil!" as he was doing some of his crazy "phils".  My wife of course agreed politely, wondering when someone would start singing again.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on April 18, 2018, 03:55:57 PM
One more recommendation for The Musical Box.  I've seen them twice now and I think next year they're going to do the Lamb Lies Down in Broadway so I will see them for a third time definitely. 

As for We Can't Dance, I love it but then again, that was the first thing of theirs I heard as a kid so I didn't know for the longest time that their style had changed quite a bit.  I didn't even know Phil Collins was a drummer until 5 years ago when I started getting into the band (other than listening to I Can't Dance as a kid). 

Driving the Last Spike is an amazing song.  It is strange how perfectly the mood is set for the story that Phil tells.  Definitely not as crazy of a prog journey as their other, older songs, but still pretty prog when you think about it. 

I also agree that On the Shoreline should have been on the album.  Those two songs are among the best of Genesis.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 18, 2018, 04:53:00 PM
I've seen TMB twice now; the first time there were a few mistakes that were kind of obvious and so my jury was out, though the "Peter Gabriel" was largely spot on (actually, creepily so).   This last time was musically PERFECT - "Tony" even nailed the intro to Firth of Fifth - and they did a 20-minute "suite" of The Lamb as an encore (with the historically correct "Genesis rarely played encores, and certainly none like this, but we're fashioning a new show for next year, and so as thanks for your support [it was their 20 or 25th anniversary the night I saw them] we're going to do a few more numbers for you", or something very very close to that).

They've done the Lamb before, for one tour; I missed it so I will be there next time for sure.

Small pet peeve:  BOTH TIMES, during Supper's Ready, "Peter" sang the "We watch in reverence, as Narcissus is turned to a flower" lyric, and there was the requisite pause...  and some douche nozzle behind me screams - OFF CUE - "A FLOWER!".  Even the singer was slightly annoyed, as he gave the cue and the band went into the Willow Farm section.   Also, I was third row, and there were two couples in front of me talking the whole show, and one of them left right before Supper's Ready - during the "story" intro - and so they stand up and they're hugging the other couple, and "Peter" had to pause for them as well.   I hate people. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on April 18, 2018, 05:55:06 PM
I've seen TMB twice now; the first time there were a few mistakes that were kind of obvious and so my jury was out, though the "Peter Gabriel" was largely spot on (actually, creepily so).   This last time was musically PERFECT - "Tony" even nailed the intro to Firth of Fifth - and they did a 20-minute "suite" of The Lamb as an encore (with the historically correct "Genesis rarely played encores, and certainly none like this, but we're fashioning a new show for next year, and so as thanks for your support [it was their 20 or 25th anniversary the night I saw them] we're going to do a few more numbers for you", or something very very close to that).

They've done the Lamb before, for one tour; I missed it so I will be there next time for sure.

Small pet peeve:  BOTH TIMES, during Supper's Ready, "Peter" sang the "We watch in reverence, as Narcissus is turned to a flower" lyric, and there was the requisite pause...  and some douche nozzle behind me screams - OFF CUE - "A FLOWER!".  Even the singer was slightly annoyed, as he gave the cue and the band went into the Willow Farm section.   Also, I was third row, and there were two couples in front of me talking the whole show, and one of them left right before Supper's Ready - during the "story" intro - and so they stand up and they're hugging the other couple, and "Peter" had to pause for them as well.   I hate people.

The last show I was at two women fell asleep right across the aisle from me. One had a drink in her hand and spilled it. Fortunately it didn't get on anybody but herself. A guy in front of her actually turned around and took a picture of her. Then during' in supper's ready he stood up and started jamming. I don't blame him. I personally like standing at shows. As I understand it even in the 70s a genesis audience would sit the whole time so it was a little out of place but still I admired how into it he was. Then after three minutes he left to go get a beer. I don't understand people.

It's funny you mention Firth of Fifth because Tony fucked up and had to start over. Second time he nailed it. No noticeable mistakes during the rest of the show.

They did a Lamb encore too. The billing said we were one of only 6 shows or so that for that encore. Funny you were at one of the others.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 19, 2018, 01:41:13 AM
@Dave:
No that is my whole collection :) It's about 800 records.

Ah, fair enough! I thought maybe you collected different copies/pressings of every album and Genesis-related solo project (I noticed Peter Gabriel's Real World Records logo on a few of them). There's a Pink Floyd fan on Youtube who has hundreds of Floyd vinyl, even though they only released 15 albums.

You have a great collection by the way. I love those Genesis box sets.

Thank you! Yeah, if the picture was in a higher resolution, you probably could identify a bunch of other stuff (like the DT box sets in the top row:) ), but the Gabriel albums are there yes. I even found New Blood at a local record store in Dresden (it's also not that easy to get anymore), but it's still at a friend's house since I don't live there anymore and asked him to pick it up for me.

I admire people who are that dedicated to collect hundreds of releases of one album, but I primarily buy records to listen to them. I sometimes buy an album that is not one of my absolute favorites, to complete a collection (I have had Invisible Touch for years, and I'm getting into it only recently), but usually I just want to listen to it. I have, however, a weakness for special editions and colored vinyl.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jcmoorehead on April 19, 2018, 03:39:15 AM
I've seen TMB twice now; the first time there were a few mistakes that were kind of obvious and so my jury was out, though the "Peter Gabriel" was largely spot on (actually, creepily so).   This last time was musically PERFECT - "Tony" even nailed the intro to Firth of Fifth - and they did a 20-minute "suite" of The Lamb as an encore (with the historically correct "Genesis rarely played encores, and certainly none like this, but we're fashioning a new show for next year, and so as thanks for your support [it was their 20 or 25th anniversary the night I saw them] we're going to do a few more numbers for you", or something very very close to that).

They've done the Lamb before, for one tour; I missed it so I will be there next time for sure.

Small pet peeve:  BOTH TIMES, during Supper's Ready, "Peter" sang the "We watch in reverence, as Narcissus is turned to a flower" lyric, and there was the requisite pause...  and some douche nozzle behind me screams - OFF CUE - "A FLOWER!".  Even the singer was slightly annoyed, as he gave the cue and the band went into the Willow Farm section.   Also, I was third row, and there were two couples in front of me talking the whole show, and one of them left right before Supper's Ready - during the "story" intro - and so they stand up and they're hugging the other couple, and "Peter" had to pause for them as well.   I hate people.

The last show I was at two women fell asleep right across the aisle from me. One had a drink in her hand and spilled it. Fortunately it didn't get on anybody but herself. A guy in front of her actually turned around and took a picture of her. Then during' in supper's ready he stood up and started jamming. I don't blame him. I personally like standing at shows. As I understand it even in the 70s a genesis audience would sit the whole time so it was a little out of place but still I admired how into it he was. Then after three minutes he left to go get a beer. I don't understand people.

When i went to see a Genesis tribute a few years ago with a friend we had a similar issue with people talking. Just throughout the entire show they were chatting among themselves, even throughout the entire intro to Firth Of Fifth. It was only a small venue so not really the sort of place where that sort of thing is easily drowned out either, incredibly annoying.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: RoeDent on April 20, 2018, 03:05:56 AM
I've seen TMB twice now; the first time there were a few mistakes that were kind of obvious and so my jury was out, though the "Peter Gabriel" was largely spot on (actually, creepily so).   This last time was musically PERFECT - "Tony" even nailed the intro to Firth of Fifth - and they did a 20-minute "suite" of The Lamb as an encore (with the historically correct "Genesis rarely played encores, and certainly none like this, but we're fashioning a new show for next year, and so as thanks for your support [it was their 20 or 25th anniversary the night I saw them] we're going to do a few more numbers for you", or something very very close to that).

They've done the Lamb before, for one tour; I missed it so I will be there next time for sure.

Small pet peeve:  BOTH TIMES, during Supper's Ready, "Peter" sang the "We watch in reverence, as Narcissus is turned to a flower" lyric, and there was the requisite pause...  and some douche nozzle behind me screams - OFF CUE - "A FLOWER!".  Even the singer was slightly annoyed, as he gave the cue and the band went into the Willow Farm section.   Also, I was third row, and there were two couples in front of me talking the whole show, and one of them left right before Supper's Ready - during the "story" intro - and so they stand up and they're hugging the other couple, and "Peter" had to pause for them as well.   I hate people.

The last show I was at two women fell asleep right across the aisle from me. One had a drink in her hand and spilled it. Fortunately it didn't get on anybody but herself. A guy in front of her actually turned around and took a picture of her. Then during' in supper's ready he stood up and started jamming. I don't blame him. I personally like standing at shows. As I understand it even in the 70s a genesis audience would sit the whole time so it was a little out of place but still I admired how into it he was. Then after three minutes he left to go get a beer. I don't understand people.

When i went to see a Genesis tribute a few years ago with a friend we had a similar issue with people talking. Just throughout the entire show they were chatting among themselves, even throughout the entire intro to Firth Of Fifth. It was only a small venue so not really the sort of place where that sort of thing is easily drowned out either, incredibly annoying.

And what have we learnt from this? Concerts would be great experiences if it weren't for other human beings. Like a lot of things in life, they make the experience less enjoyable.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 20, 2018, 03:31:07 AM
I've seen TMB twice now; the first time there were a few mistakes that were kind of obvious and so my jury was out, though the "Peter Gabriel" was largely spot on (actually, creepily so).   This last time was musically PERFECT - "Tony" even nailed the intro to Firth of Fifth - and they did a 20-minute "suite" of The Lamb as an encore (with the historically correct "Genesis rarely played encores, and certainly none like this, but we're fashioning a new show for next year, and so as thanks for your support [it was their 20 or 25th anniversary the night I saw them] we're going to do a few more numbers for you", or something very very close to that).

They've done the Lamb before, for one tour; I missed it so I will be there next time for sure.

Small pet peeve:  BOTH TIMES, during Supper's Ready, "Peter" sang the "We watch in reverence, as Narcissus is turned to a flower" lyric, and there was the requisite pause...  and some douche nozzle behind me screams - OFF CUE - "A FLOWER!".  Even the singer was slightly annoyed, as he gave the cue and the band went into the Willow Farm section.   Also, I was third row, and there were two couples in front of me talking the whole show, and one of them left right before Supper's Ready - during the "story" intro - and so they stand up and they're hugging the other couple, and "Peter" had to pause for them as well.   I hate people.

The last show I was at two women fell asleep right across the aisle from me. One had a drink in her hand and spilled it. Fortunately it didn't get on anybody but herself. A guy in front of her actually turned around and took a picture of her. Then during' in supper's ready he stood up and started jamming. I don't blame him. I personally like standing at shows. As I understand it even in the 70s a genesis audience would sit the whole time so it was a little out of place but still I admired how into it he was. Then after three minutes he left to go get a beer. I don't understand people.

When i went to see a Genesis tribute a few years ago with a friend we had a similar issue with people talking. Just throughout the entire show they were chatting among themselves, even throughout the entire intro to Firth Of Fifth. It was only a small venue so not really the sort of place where that sort of thing is easily drowned out either, incredibly annoying.

And what have we learnt from this? Concerts would be great experiences if it weren't for other human beings. Like a lot of things in life, they make the experience less enjoyable.

Would you like to stand in an arena listening to a band ALONE? That would surely suck.
I would say, Concerts would be great experiences if it weren't for the bad behavior of some other human beings.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 20, 2018, 07:50:45 AM
A guy in front of her actually turned around and took a picture of her. Then during' in supper's ready he stood up and started jamming. I don't blame him. I personally like standing at shows. As I understand it even in the 70s a genesis audience would sit the whole time so it was a little out of place but still I admired how into it he was. Then after three minutes he left to go get a beer. I don't understand people.


There was a guy like that at my second show; in the lobby before hand, there were two young dudes, clearly their first show, and one asked the other abuot something, and this guy - by himself, shorter guy, looked a little crazy, but it wasn't me - went into about seventy times more detail than these kids were looking for - talking about variations to the setlist and this and that - and then during the show, he was actually across the aisle from the douches in front of me.  During... it was either Watcher or Dancing, probably Watcher, he  was air drumming and spasm-ing so much that it was shaking the whole row of seats.   The security came over, whispered in his ear, and he sort of calmed down.  Two songs later, he's out to get beer.  Go figure. 

This stuff is distracting at a show like Musical Box, especially where I saw them, because it's small and it's all seated.  I couldn't miss the douches in front of me because it was LITERALLY right in front of me, and the security guard was maybe 5, 6 feet from me when he spoke to the over-zealous fan (again, it wasn't me).   :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on April 20, 2018, 09:21:14 AM
Reminds me a Marillion show I saw near Philly a year and a half ago. People would not stop going back and forth all night to get beer/pee. ALL NIGHT. It was so distracting. The singer even commented on how many people were up and about rather than remaining seated. I had to tell a guy to sit down or move to the side because he was the only bozo standing up in the seated area and he happened to be right in front of me and I was beyond pissed off at that point. Can't people enjoy a concert anymore without drinking endless beer?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 20, 2018, 09:39:20 AM
Was that the "FEAR" show at the Keswick?  I was there for that.   I remember  him saying something, but I wasn't close enough to know what was up.  I was to the left of the stage, and I stood in the aisle for about half the show (I didn't want the people I was with to see me lose it during Neverland) and people kept walking by me the whole time.

It's a fucking hour and 45 minutes.  You'd think people could sit still for that short period.   I'm old enough to remember when it was actually RUDE to get up while someone was performing.   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on April 20, 2018, 10:42:48 AM
I agree with everything said though I will add, and this may be an unpopular opinion, that it's also kind of rude to sit during a concert when the band literally tells you to stand.  I was at Uriah Heep and this happened. I get it, it sucks to stand for an hour and a half. I'm getting older so I'm feeling it myself and I did sit during a few down times, but a band like Heep requires more audience participation. 

Fortunately I didn't get much flack but a dude behind me that wasn't even sitting in the right seat asked if I would try to keep a line of sight for him and not move too far to one side. Polite, I guess, so I tried to oblige.

I would say at a concert like this, if you want to sit, the balcony is where you should be.

Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on April 20, 2018, 06:15:11 PM
I'm too old now to stand for an entire concert :lol, so I will usually pick my spots.  I am not going to stand for a whole concert because the band tells me to, but if someone in front of me wants to stand and rock out, have at it. 

Now, talking a lot during a concert is really obnoxious, and, yes, the dopes who view concerts as another occasion to get drunk and act stupid are the worst.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: RoeDent on April 21, 2018, 01:53:16 AM
People should be tested before buying tickets. Are you going to actually pay more attention to the show than your friends/your phone etc.? If you're going to spend large parts of the show talking to your friends, you might as well have spent your ticket money on an evening somewhere more sociable, like a restaurant or a pub.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on April 21, 2018, 12:15:12 PM
People should be tested before buying tickets. Are you going to actually pay more attention to the show than your friends/your phone etc.? If you're going to spend large parts of the show talking to your friends, you might as well have spent your ticket money on an evening somewhere more sociable, like a restaurant or a pub.

Exactly!  Of course now events are so corporate that even the hardcore fans can usually only get seats as close as 5-15 rows back because everything else is given to sponsors of the arena/theater/etc. It used to be if you were hardcore enough, you spent the night at the venue and were rewarded by front row seats.  Now, if the corporate sponsors can't give their tickets away they open them up a day before the event and slackers can find themselves up front.

I'm too old now to stand for an entire concert :lol, so I will usually pick my spots.  I am not going to stand for a whole concert because the band tells me to, but if someone in front of me wants to stand and rock out, have at it. 


Fair enough.  If I can't get a good seat and I know the audience probably won't stand unless they're on the floor, sometimes I will actually choose last row so I can stand as I see fit and not have to worry about pissing people off.  Of course, if everyone is sitting I'm not going to be the odd man out and try to prove a point. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on April 21, 2018, 01:18:57 PM
Same here.  There have been times at various shows where I was a bit frustrated because no one was standing up and I wanted to get up and rock out, but I am not going to be the asshole standing in a section where everyone else is sitting down.  Sometimes though, you can stand up and the dominoes fall where people around you slowly rise as well.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 22, 2018, 08:39:18 PM
People should be tested before buying tickets. Are you going to actually pay more attention to the show than your friends/your phone etc.? If you're going to spend large parts of the show talking to your friends, you might as well have spent your ticket money on an evening somewhere more sociable, like a restaurant or a pub.

Can you see that at the door? 

"Okay, sir, I see you're in Section 1; Section 1 is to the left and down.  But before you go, who is the lead singer?   What is the title track of the band's third album (trick question: there IS no title track to the band's third album!), and finally, who did the current drummer replace?" 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 27, 2018, 06:56:26 PM
Reminds me a Marillion show I saw near Philly a year and a half ago. People would not stop going back and forth all night to get beer/pee. ALL NIGHT. It was so distracting. The singer even commented on how many people were up and about rather than remaining seated. I had to tell a guy to sit down or move to the side because he was the only bozo standing up in the seated area and he happened to be right in front of me and I was beyond pissed off at that point. Can't people enjoy a concert anymore without drinking endless beer?

I was there too. 

I'm probably in the minority on this but I only go to see the band. I don't need to be entertained in any other way. I just get off on that.

Don't need to be there if the band doesn't do it for me.

Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 27, 2018, 07:07:00 PM
I would like to keep this discussion up, so: I have been listening to We Can't Dance the past days (I know right, he gets the green box sets and then listens to WCD!?) and I think it's actually a pretty good album. It doesn't have the triggered, programmed (whatever you want to call it) drums from Invisible Touch and Genesis. I am talking about those specific sounds in Second Home By The Sea, Silver Rainbow, Invisible Touch, Tonight, etc. The drums here are overproduced as hell (as is the whole album) but I think it just sounds awesome. The first time I really listened to No Son Of Mine and the snare came in like a slap in the face - I was pretty impressed. If a snare is triggered - please trigger it like this.

Plus, the album has some great songs. The mentioned No So Son of mine is way too long and thought through to be a single, but still it was one - and a huge hit at that. Jesus He Knows Me is saved by Phils groovy drumming and belongs in the funny, sarcastic department of Robber, Assault, Just A Job, Harold The Barrel, Scenes From A Night's Dream. I even like Tell Me Why quite a bit, the harmonies are not stupid (Tony!) and it grooves. Sure, lyrics are a little flat, but still a good song. Did I say groove? Listen to the last minutes of Living Forever. Two of the best minutes of the album. This is a great example of how few Collins needs to make something groove. And the ending fill is awesome. Man what a drummer.
There's also two 10 minute songs, of which I personally like Fading Lights better. The keyboard solo (Tony!) in the middle reminds of older days. The whole song sounds like a swan song - which it was for in retrospective for the trio (not sure if they knew so though).
Dreaming While You Sleep is a Mama/In The Air Tonight like song (I dont want to say copy): drum machine, Collins eery vocals, HUGE toms, cymbal-free drums. I gotta say I also like Hold On My Heart, because of Tonys unconventional harmonies (Tony!).

There are two songs I would have included into the album: On The Shoreline and Hearts On Fire, which should have replaced Never A Time and Since I Lost You or Way Of The World imo. Two awesome tunes.

This got a bit out of hand I didn't want to write so much but then I did :-D
What do you think about this album? I think it's a bit underrated among Genesis and Prog fans, but in a lot of ways it takes more time to build up songs and set moods than the loud, happy, dancy Invisible Touch. And it's not really a prog-free album.

The only reason I have We Can't Dance is that I found it in the used bin for a dollar a few years back and I had everything else so I couldn't justify not buying it.  I really don't listen to it much. Some of it is OK, but the stuff I like from it like Dreaming While You Sleep or Fading Lights is on Archive 2 or the live album so I'll pull out those CDs more.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on May 01, 2018, 10:01:17 AM
Reminds me a Marillion show I saw near Philly a year and a half ago. People would not stop going back and forth all night to get beer/pee. ALL NIGHT. It was so distracting. The singer even commented on how many people were up and about rather than remaining seated. I had to tell a guy to sit down or move to the side because he was the only bozo standing up in the seated area and he happened to be right in front of me and I was beyond pissed off at that point. Can't people enjoy a concert anymore without drinking endless beer?

I was there too. 

I'm probably in the minority on this but I only go to see the band. I don't need to be entertained in any other way. I just get off on that.

Don't need to be there if the band doesn't do it for me.

I'll have a beer or two at the show, and if I'm meeting people maybe a couple more before, but I haven't been truly wasted at a show for over 25 years.  I can do that on my porch, I don't need to spend $100 and drive an hour to do that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 02, 2018, 07:11:17 PM
Reminds me a Marillion show I saw near Philly a year and a half ago. People would not stop going back and forth all night to get beer/pee. ALL NIGHT. It was so distracting. The singer even commented on how many people were up and about rather than remaining seated. I had to tell a guy to sit down or move to the side because he was the only bozo standing up in the seated area and he happened to be right in front of me and I was beyond pissed off at that point. Can't people enjoy a concert anymore without drinking endless beer?

I was there too. 

I'm probably in the minority on this but I only go to see the band. I don't need to be entertained in any other way. I just get off on that.

Don't need to be there if the band doesn't do it for me.

I'll have a beer or two at the show, and if I'm meeting people maybe a couple more before, but I haven't been truly wasted at a show for over 25 years.  I can do that on my porch, I don't need to spend $100 and drive an hour to do that.

True.

 A lot of people in the US seems to go to concerts more as something to do rather than having a serious interest in seeing a band in concert.   Oddly enough, having lost interest pro hockey (or maybe even baseball) if I go it's more of a social thing with friends where I don't pay much attention to the game. So I get why people do it, but I just place more emphasis these days on music (always have) but I'm just not all that interested in sports anymore and would rather choose more enjoyable experiences when it's up to me.

Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on May 07, 2018, 11:25:45 AM
Phil Collins NA Tour Dates. 

I likely will try and see him for the 1st time in Minneapolis.

https://philcollins.com/

10/05 Ft. Lauderdale, FL @ BB&T Center
10/07 Washington, DC @ Capital One Arena
10/08 Philadelphia, PA @ Wells Fargo Center
10/09 Boston, MA @ TD Garden
10/11 Toronto, ON @ Air Canada Centre
10/13 Newark, NJ @ Prudential Center
10/14 Brooklyn, NY @ Barclays Center
10/16 Montreal, QC @ Centre Bell
10/18 Cleveland, OH @ Quicken loans Arena
10/19 Columbus, OH @ Nationwide Arena
10/21 Minneapolis, MN @ Target Center
10/22 Chicago, IL @ United Center
10/25 Oakland, CA @ Oracle Arena
10/27 Las Vegas, NV @ MGM Grand Garden Arena
10/28 Los Angeles, CA @ The Forum
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: NoseofNicko on May 24, 2018, 08:56:06 PM
Bought Wind & Wuthering for $5 yesterday. Already in love with it. Really underrated. If ...And Then There Were Three... is great then every 70s Genesis album is great.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 24, 2018, 09:48:25 PM
I like ...And Then There Were Three..., but that album was also the first studio album of their that I heard.  I was able to appreciate it without comparing it to the more complex stuff which came before it, because I was just getting into them.  From there, I was also able to observe the continued evolution of the band into the 80's and beyond, and to explore the proggier back catalog as well.  I honestly don't feel that it's a horrible weak link or anything like a lot of Genesis fans seems to think.  It's a transitional album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dave_Manchester on May 25, 2018, 06:37:33 AM
There are some fantastic songs on ATTWT, such as Down and Out, Undertow (such a beautiful chorus, probably Banks' greatest), Burning Rope, The Lady Lies and the very original 'pop' song Follow You Follow Me. Some of what remains isn't the strongest quality in my opinion, placing it low down on my Genesis album ranking, but as Orbert wrote it's definitely an important step in the evolution of the band. It's actually a fascinating album because it's so uneven, it's like listening to the band trying to find their new voice as a 3-piece, something they would master to perfection on the next album Duke.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 25, 2018, 08:31:18 AM
Absolutely.  Duke is my favorite.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on May 25, 2018, 08:33:59 AM
There are some fantastic songs on ATTWT, such as Down and Out, Undertow (such a beautiful chorus, probably Banks' greatest), Burning Rope, The Lady Lies and the very original 'pop' song Follow You Follow Me. Some of what remains isn't the strongest quality in my opinion, placing it low down on my Genesis album ranking, but as Orbert wrote it's definitely an important step in the evolution of the band. It's actually a fascinating album because it's so uneven, it's like listening to the band trying to find their new voice as a 3-piece, something they would master to perfection on the next album Duke.

I think this is right; I don't think we get Duke or Abacab (two of my three favorite Genesis albums, along with W&W) if it wasn't for ATTWT.   I actually like all of it, except for "Say It's Alright Joe".   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 25, 2018, 08:50:10 AM
"Say It's Alright Joe" doesn't thrill me overall, but I like the idea, and that outro is awesome.  I usually don't like fade-outs, because usually it's some variation on "repeat this over and over" but I like the kind where it keeps going and changing and the idea is that it's still going... out there... somewhere...
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 25, 2018, 05:19:44 PM
ATTWT doesn't really have any top tier, or even second tier, Genesis songs, IMO, but I still like these songs a lot:

Down and Out
Undertow
Burning Rope
Deep in the Motherlode
Many Too Many

Those songs alone make it a worthy record.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 26, 2018, 01:49:51 PM
I really like And Then There Were Three, I just wish it sounded better.

 I've never been happy with the way it sounds to the point where -- and I guess this is no surprise coming from me -- the live versions have always sounded superior.


Sort of related, I found a CD copy of A Trick Of The Tail (the original Atco Made In Japan) in the used bin last weekend and I had no idea this album sounded this good.

I had only ever heard the Atlantic (I think it was Atlantic) which I ditched when the '94 remaster (which I think sounds OK) came out.

But it sounds nothing like this.  I don't think there is a comparable version of And Then There Were Three out there, but I sure wish there was.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on May 27, 2018, 10:20:28 AM
I think a lot of the warmth in Genesis sound went "missing" when Steve left. Starting with Three..., Tony's keyboards were not only dominating their sound, they were the only harmony instrument in the band (apart from the few Rutherford guitar sections). Plus, the 80s weren't that far away anymore at that time, and warmer sounds like mellotron and organ got out of style.

I have the first vinyl release and a 2007 remastered version. The latter sounds a lot better, and has more warmth in my opinion.

But yeah, Trick (and also Selling England) sound absolutely fantastic.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mister Gold on May 28, 2018, 09:54:19 AM
I like ...And Then There Were Three..., but that album was also the first studio album of their that I heard.  I was able to appreciate it without comparing it to the more complex stuff which came before it, because I was just getting into them.  From there, I was also able to observe the continued evolution of the band into the 80's and beyond, and to explore the proggier back catalog as well.  I honestly don't feel that it's a horrible weak link or anything like a lot of Genesis fans seems to think.  It's a transitional album.

Yeah, I have a very similar opinion about Fates Warning's Darkness in a Different Light album. It's not bad by any stretch, but it definitely felt- and still feels- underwhelming when you consider that it was the first album from the band in nine years and that only a couple years prior, most of the same musicians had put out the similar yet vastly superior Arch/Matheos album Sympathetic Resonance. A lot of hype that the final product didn't quite live up to... and then two and a half years later, the band followed up with Theories of Flight, which is one of the best albums the band's ever put out in general- much like Genesis put out Duke after ATTWT.

You can hear how the band evolved into the final product from those stepping stones. The album has growing pains because, as you said, it's a transitional album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: NoseofNicko on May 28, 2018, 10:16:38 PM
Thanks for the comments guys. I decided to blind-buy ATTWT and Duke. Looking forward to listening to them. I do already know and like Follow You Follow Me and Turn It On Again.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: NoseofNicko on May 28, 2018, 11:19:30 PM
Undertow (such a beautiful chorus, probably Banks' greatest)

Just listened to it because of your comment about the chorus and yeah thats one hell of a chorus!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on August 14, 2018, 05:44:36 AM
bump.

interesting list of all the solo albums ranked.

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/genesis-solo-albums-ranked/

I know I would put Voyage of the Acolyte and Up higher personally.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on August 14, 2018, 07:49:16 AM
For me, "But Seriously" and PG III (though I understand it, being the genesis of the classic Phil sound) are way too high, and PGI, Squackett, A Curious Feeling, and Hello...  are way too low.   Security is my favorite of Gabe's solo stuff, but I understand why So is where it is.   It IS that good (even if it's a record I'm somewhat fatigued over now). 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on August 14, 2018, 08:03:33 AM
Wow, that list puts Car (PG I) as Gabriel's least best album. Can't get behind that at all.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on August 14, 2018, 08:27:47 AM
Wow, that list puts Car (PG I) as Gabriel's least best album. Can't get behind that at all.

Me neither; I LOVE that album. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on August 14, 2018, 12:24:27 PM
Interesting, but not surprising I suppose, that they omit Tony's neo-classical albums.  Other than A Curious Feeling, which is pretty solid start to finish, and Strictly, Inc., which has some high points, I find the rest of Tony's solo work decidedly mediocre.

But his classical stuff is pretty good.  The first one is a strong debut, the second is even better.  I'm having some trouble with the third one.  After three or four complete listens, I'm finding it to be the weakest of the three, which is kinda surprising (I was expecting the upward trajectory to continue).  It all sounds great, has all those wonderful Banks moves and changes, but just isn't very interesting.  No real melodies to keep your attention, basically background music.  Really nice background music, but challenging as active listening because there's not a lot to grab onto.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mebert78 on September 07, 2018, 01:13:48 PM
I'm ashamed to say that I never really explored the Genesis back catalog until now.  I'd heard many of their songs here and there since I was a child, but I'd always been more of a prog metal guy so I never went further.  The only album I owned was We Can't Dance because it came out when I was 12 and just getting into music.  (Phil's solo stuff has always been a guilty pleasure of mine, although I only own Both Sides and Hits.) Well, for some reason, I read something in Prog magazine last week that inspired me to start sinking my teeth into their stuff once and for all.  I started out by buying all the other albums with Phil, Tony and Mike (And Then There Were Three through Invisible Touch) for cheap on eBay.  I know this is considered by many to be their "pop" era, but I prefer to start with the most recent stuff and work my way back.  I'm currently obsessing over Duke.  Wow!  What a great album!  I can't wait to see what else is in store for me. :) 

Also, I gotta give a shout out to "Never A Time" from We Can't Dance.  What a wonderful song. :)   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on September 08, 2018, 05:36:24 AM
Also, I gotta give a shout out to "Never A Time" from We Can't Dance.  What a wonderful song. :)

You may literally be the only person in history to ever have this opinion.  ;D

We Can't Dance has a lot of cool moments, but I think the length is a bit excessive for the type of material on it. I think cutting out 2-3 songs would've benefited it. Living Forever, Fading Lights, and Driving The Last Spike are excellent songs. If you accept the pop era for what it is and don't expect 70's Genesis to suddenly reappear then you'll discover how much awesome stuff is in there. The self-titled is my favorite of that time-period, but there's great stuff on every album (also some garbage, but I think that about nearly every 70's Genesis album too).

Working backwards should be pretty interesting. I think overall, A Trick Of The Tail and Selling England are their best and I'm curious what your favorites will be.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: goo-goo on September 08, 2018, 11:44:44 PM
Just finished reading Phils Bio Not Desd Yet. Highly recommended. Very honest bio and a lot of Genesis tidbits.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on September 09, 2018, 10:11:52 AM
Just finished reading Phils Bio Not Desd Yet. Highly recommended. Very honest bio and a lot of Genesis tidbits.

I stumbled on the audio of that about 9 months or so ago. Wasn't planning on listening to the whole thing at the time but I did.


I could probably get an enjoyable CD out of my favorites from Invisible Touch and We Can't Dance (Which I figured was worth the $1 when I found it in the used bin a few years back.)

I've had Calling All Stations longer than both of those.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 09, 2018, 10:57:21 AM
I'm ashamed to say that I never really explored the Genesis back catalog until now.  I'd heard many of their songs here and there since I was a child, but I'd always been more of a prog metal guy so I never went further.  The only album I owned was We Can't Dance because it came out when I was 12 and just getting into music.  (Phil's solo stuff has always been a guilty pleasure of mine, although I only own Both Sides and Hits.) Well, for some reason, I read something in Prog magazine last week that inspired me to start sinking my teeth into their stuff once and for all.  I started out by buying all the other albums with Phil, Tony and Mike (And Then There Were Three through Invisible Touch) for cheap on eBay.  I know this is considered by many to be their "pop" era, but I prefer to start with the most recent stuff and work my way back.  I'm currently obsessing over Duke.  Wow!  What a great album!  I can't wait to see what else is in store for me. :) 

Also, I gotta give a shout out to "Never A Time" from We Can't Dance.  What a wonderful song. :)

Was in the same boat as you except I never had any Genesis.  I remember I Can't Dance vividly because to a 9ish year old, the song and the video were awesome.  I assumed as an older person that opinion wouldn't stick but after delving into the entire Genesis catalog I can say that I love everything. 

It started by buying Invisible Touch on a whim because I remember the video for Land of Confusion, the Disturbed cover made me remember that I liked it, and then I found the album to be pretty awesome overall. 

I slowly got the entire rest of the Genesis catalog.  The Gabriel era was a bit hard to swallow at first but now I love it.  It was fascinating to see the progression of this prog band.  Honestly, I can't think of another band with such a fascinating career. 

It's true, some of their stuff is so poppy it is difficult to get into, but I just think it helps portray a more full story about the many dimensions of this band.  I also love that while they did go majorly pop, they never abandoned their prog roots with songs like Domino, Driving the Last Spike, etc plus always pulling out some of the old stuff in concert. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 09, 2018, 08:25:56 PM


Working backwards should be pretty interesting. I think overall, A Trick Of The Tail and Selling England are their best and I'm curious what your favorites will be.

Well, yeah, except for Wind and Wuthering and The Lamb.  ;0. :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mebert78 on September 18, 2018, 08:18:07 AM
Well, my first album working my way backwards was Invisible Touch (I'd already owned We Can't Dance), and I also watched a two-hour show from the Invisible Touch tour at Wembley Stadium.  The crowd was massive and I really loved the drum duet solo between Phil and the band's touring drummer.  Big respect to Phil for that one, and for jumping back and forth between drums and vocals throughout the show.  Obviously, I already recognized a bunch of the songs from that album.  I think I already knew five of the eight songs -- including "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight" and "In Too Deep," both of which I really really love.  But the biggest surprise for me was probably "The Brazilian" -- what a great instrumental!  Totally did not see that one coming.  It gave me a bit of a Rush vibe.  Anyway, next I'm moving along to the self-titled album that starts with "Mama."       
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 18, 2018, 10:23:17 AM
Well, my first album working my way backwards was Invisible Touch (I'd already owned We Can't Dance), and I also watched a two-hour show from the Invisible Touch tour at Wembley Stadium.  The crowd was massive and I really loved the drum duet solo between Phil and the band's touring drummer.  Big respect to Phil for that one, and for jumping back and forth between drums and vocals throughout the show.  Obviously, I already recognized a bunch of the songs from that album.  I think I already knew five of the eight songs -- including "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight" and "In Too Deep," both of which I really really love.  But the biggest surprise for me was probably "The Brazilian" -- what a great instrumental!  Totally did not see that one coming.  It gave me a bit of a Rush vibe.  Anyway, next I'm moving along to the self-titled album that starts with "Mama."     

Chester Thompson, FYI.   Big fan of the live version of The Brazilian as well, good call.  I'm partial to the self-titled, though the drum sound wears thin after a while.  The only song I don't like on that album is "That's All", one of my least favorite Genesis songs ever.   (By the way, it's worth seeking out the extended version of "It's Gonna Get Better", the last song on the record.)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on September 18, 2018, 10:49:24 AM
I often read that people don't like That's All, but for me its almost the perfect pop song. And it has a cool little guitar solo in the end. Really love that song.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Mebert78 on September 18, 2018, 12:19:14 PM
Chester Thompson, FYI.   Big fan of the live version of The Brazilian as well, good call.

Thank you for the name!  Also, I just read that "The Brazilian" received a Grammy nomination for Best Pop Instrumental Performance in 1986?  Impressive!  :o
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 18, 2018, 12:26:59 PM
I can totally understand why people don't like That's All.  I personally never feel the urge to listen to it yet the fucking melody always pops into my head.  Anytime I say "That's all" or "that's enough" or any variation in conversation, the fucking song gets stuck in my head for about 3-58 days. 

Surprisingly I don't hate the song though. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on September 20, 2018, 07:55:33 PM
Here's a fun little quiz with no right answer.

I'm ripping all my Genesis discs in FLAC to my new music library.   All CDs are listed by (among many other things) "genre".   

It occurs to me that the early PG stuff is definitely "progressive rock" and the later PC stuff is firmly in the straight "rock" category....maybe almost "pop", but "rock" is probably close enough.    But as I go through the albums, which album would YOU pick as the discontinuation of the "progressive" qualifier and THE definitive album where Genesis became a straight ahead "rock" band?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 20, 2018, 08:11:55 PM
Genesis, the self-titled.

Other than it's not a concept, Abacab is in every sense of the word a progressive album.   Varying time signatures, odd lyrical content, suites (Dodo/Lurker, plus the two songs cut for b-sides, "Naminanu" and "Submarine"), non-standard song structures ("abacab" and particularly "Me And Sarah Jane", a song in five parts that are each played once and never repeat again, yet the song "sounds" almost straightforward).

I think Tony agrees with me (if you listen to the interviews accompanying the 5.1 box sets). 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 20, 2018, 10:02:03 PM
I agree with Stadler.  abacab was the last progressive album as they moved more towards straight-up rock, and Genesis was the first rock album with one foot still in progressive.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on September 20, 2018, 10:21:37 PM
Thats a great suggestion...as it also creates a neat line between boxed sets 2 and 3.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on September 21, 2018, 08:23:52 PM
Thats a great suggestion...as it also creates a neat line between boxed sets 2 and 3.

I've got 2.

 Never bothered with 1 or 3 even though the self-titled and Calling All Stations would be my favorites from that one. I figure either the originals or the first set of remasters are pretty much enough for me on those fronts.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on September 22, 2018, 02:03:38 AM
Thats a great suggestion...as it also creates a neat line between boxed sets 2 and 3.

I've got 2.

 Never bothered with 1 or 3 even though the self-titled and Calling All Stations would be my favorites from that one. I figure either the originals or the first set of remasters are pretty much enough for me on those fronts.

The 5.1 mixes of boxed set #1 are worth the price all by themselves.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 22, 2018, 11:16:51 AM
Ytse, as someone that strikes me as a completist, it depends on whether you want the 5.1 mixes or not.  Bear in mind that Nick Davis had to remix the stereo mixes too (so they are slightly different) but for me the 5.1 mixes are essential (other than Crimson, the best I've ever heard) and the sound improvement on both 1 and 3 are meaningful (1 is more clear and dynamic, and 3 has a little more substance to both self titled and Invisible Touch).  I don't think I'd drop $100 on them if you're not into the 5.1, but if you can find them in a pawn shop or something, they'd be worth it to have.

I'm assuming you have most of the "bonus" stuff - Shepperton, some of the 90's rehearsal footage, the b-sides - anyway, but there's that too.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on September 23, 2018, 12:05:13 AM
On the topic of the Genesis box sets, one of my major gripes with the S/T-CAS box set is that not ALL of the CAS b-sides made the cut, which seems like a huge oversight. Not that the five missing tracks are at all spectacular, but having them for completion's sake would have been nice. They gave us practically everything else with regards to b-side material for everything prior to CAS...ah well.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 23, 2018, 07:04:14 AM
I found that interesting as well.  But then, I was surprised when I found out how much unused material there was from the last album.  I never bothered doing the math, but I think there's more that they didn't use than what they put on the album.  And it all has that "unfinished" feel to it.  Like demos that they never quite polished up, which makes it all the more disappointing.  I thought that CAS had a lot of potential, but I rarely listen to it because it all sounds like it's not quite ready, not quite finished, especially the way nearly everything fades out, sometimes right in the middle of a verse or instrumental.

If they'd spent more time polishing up the keepers and less time apparently recording everything they'd cooked up, I think the album could have been really good.  As it is, I think it's just okay, and overall a bit disappointing considering the potential.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on September 30, 2018, 12:32:36 PM
Ytse, as someone that strikes me as a completist, it depends on whether you want the 5.1 mixes or not.  Bear in mind that Nick Davis had to remix the stereo mixes too (so they are slightly different) but for me the 5.1 mixes are essential (other than Crimson, the best I've ever heard) and the sound improvement on both 1 and 3 are meaningful (1 is more clear and dynamic, and 3 has a little more substance to both self titled and Invisible Touch).  I don't think I'd drop $100 on them if you're not into the 5.1, but if you can find them in a pawn shop or something, they'd be worth it to have.

I'm assuming you have most of the "bonus" stuff - Shepperton, some of the 90's rehearsal footage, the b-sides - anyway, but there's that too.

Correct. Not a 5.1 guy (Though I totally agree with you on the Crimson. To me that's the standard but the music has as much to do with that than anything else.)

I may eventually get the 3rd box as there's still enough on there that I'd listen to heavily.   No point for getting Box 1 for me because I'm lucky if I pull out a Gabriel-Genesis album but one or two times a year. (Have all of the '94 releases and kept the originals. (Collins era only on the originals.)

I've got Archive 2 (Wife has Archive 1 but I can't remember the last time I listened to it.) Have the Longs and Shorts  live set. (Though that's not really in my wheelhouse either.)  A few choice bootllegs (Again '76 to '84"

So I guess not really a Genesis completist (Unless we're talking maybe 76 to '98?)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on September 30, 2018, 12:35:11 PM
I found that interesting as well.  But then, I was surprised when I found out how much unused material there was from the last album.  I never bothered doing the math, but I think there's more that they didn't use than what they put on the album.  And it all has that "unfinished" feel to it.  Like demos that they never quite polished up, which makes it all the more disappointing.  I thought that CAS had a lot of potential, but I rarely listen to it because it all sounds like it's not quite ready, not quite finished, especially the way nearly everything fades out, sometimes right in the middle of a verse or instrumental.

If they'd spent more time polishing up the keepers and less time apparently recording everything they'd cooked up, I think the album could have been really good.  As it is, I think it's just okay, and overall a bit disappointing considering the potential.

Wouldn't mind getting my hands on a box of this stuff either, but I realize I'm on of the few.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 22, 2019, 01:13:43 PM
SEMI-NECRO POST!!

Still Not Dead Yet (https://www.loudersound.com/news/phil-collins-announces-still-not-dead-yet-live-us-tour)

I love English humour sometimes.  The Still Not Dead Yet Tour.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on March 22, 2019, 09:29:34 PM
White Mountain covered in Italian?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxTvIr415xQ
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on September 30, 2019, 04:40:31 AM
Good stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhJEcRx6CXc
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 30, 2019, 08:05:00 AM
My only comment is going to sound like a massive burn, but it's not (though it's not really my personal preference):  The band is very VERY good, but it sounds like Mike Portnoy is sitting in with the band, and not Phil.  One of the most beautiful things about Genesis - for me, anyway - is the way the instruments sat with each other.  Phil didn't compete with Tony, who didn't compete with Mike, etc., and here the drums look to be in the same sort of sonic space as the guitars.   Genesis (in my opinion) was very influenced by Zeppelin in that way and after seeing Steve Hackett live earlier this week playing Selling England... in it's entirety, I'm pretty convinced that had some role in his leaving.   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Max Kuehnau on September 30, 2019, 02:29:31 PM
My only comment is going to sound like a massive burn, but it's not (though it's not really my personal preference):  The band is very VERY good, but it sounds like Mike Portnoy is sitting in with the band, and not Phil.  One of the most beautiful things about Genesis - for me, anyway - is the way the instruments sat with each other.  Phil didn't compete with Tony, who didn't compete with Mike, etc., and here the drums look to be in the same sort of sonic space as the guitars.   Genesis (in my opinion) was very influenced by Zeppelin in that way and after seeing Steve Hackett live earlier this week playing Selling England... in it's entirety, I'm pretty convinced that had some role in his leaving.
I see what you mean by that, but Genesis were the exact opposite (musically speaking) IMHO. Btw, Genesis were the first ever prog band I discovered at age 2 (them and Yes as well, but they were the first band for me. DT came along a lot later, at age 8) and I love them to bits to this day. Never saw them live, sadly. Anyway, massively influential band for Prog as a whole IMHO (and criminally underrated as musicians too IMHO, especially Banksie and PC)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 30, 2019, 02:41:56 PM
My only comment is going to sound like a massive burn, but it's not (though it's not really my personal preference):  The band is very VERY good, but it sounds like Mike Portnoy is sitting in with the band, and not Phil.  One of the most beautiful things about Genesis - for me, anyway - is the way the instruments sat with each other.  Phil didn't compete with Tony, who didn't compete with Mike, etc., and here the drums look to be in the same sort of sonic space as the guitars.   Genesis (in my opinion) was very influenced by Zeppelin in that way and after seeing Steve Hackett live earlier this week playing Selling England... in it's entirety, I'm pretty convinced that had some role in his leaving.
I see what you mean by that, but Genesis were the exact opposite (musically speaking) IMHO. Btw, Genesis were the first ever prog band I discovered at age 2 (them and Yes as well, but they were the first band for me. DT came along a lot later, at age 8) and I love them to bits to this day. Never saw them live, sadly. Anyway, massively influential band for Prog as a whole IMHO (and criminally underrated as musicians too IMHO, especially Banksie and PC)

No argument; Genesis were at heart songwriters, who initially only played their instruments in support of their songcraft.  Zeppelin weren't about the song in that same way and while we can be critical of their "plagiarism", I think this sort of explains it.  They were about the performance, the feel and the vibe.  This is supported by the various interpolations and improvisations.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Max Kuehnau on September 30, 2019, 02:53:06 PM
I agree. There is always a Genesis album I'm listening to every day, and today it was Abacab. (although I love all their albums and solo albums.) Reason being not just because it's fun and they're great and all that, but also that Phil was my first drumming hero and I always turn to him for inspiration. (and MM and Jeff Porcaro and some others, but Phil was the first one to leave a mark on me, his drum sound got me right away)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on September 30, 2019, 04:44:56 PM
My only comment is going to sound like a massive burn, but it's not (though it's not really my personal preference):  The band is very VERY good, but it sounds like Mike Portnoy is sitting in with the band, and not Phil.  One of the most beautiful things about Genesis - for me, anyway - is the way the instruments sat with each other.  Phil didn't compete with Tony, who didn't compete with Mike, etc., and here the drums look to be in the same sort of sonic space as the guitars.   Genesis (in my opinion) was very influenced by Zeppelin in that way and after seeing Steve Hackett live earlier this week playing Selling England... in it's entirety, I'm pretty convinced that had some role in his leaving.
I see what you mean by that, but Genesis were the exact opposite (musically speaking) IMHO. Btw, Genesis were the first ever prog band I discovered at age 2 (them and Yes as well, but they were the first band for me. DT came along a lot later, at age 8) and I love them to bits to this day. Never saw them live, sadly. Anyway, massively influential band for Prog as a whole IMHO (and criminally underrated as musicians too IMHO, especially Banksie and PC)

I always thought Banks was pretty highly regarded -- maybe a notch below Wakeman simply because of Wakeman's Royal College of Music pedigree.  Banks's performance on side three of Three Sides Live is probably my favorite recorded keyboard performance of all time.  The problem with Collins is that he's most well-known for Genesis's post-Abacab material and as a solo artist.  He was a beast on the pre-self-titled material.  Rutherford was, IMO, mostly average as a guitarist and a bit better than average as a bassist (although he had a few lines that are really good).  Hackett was very good for what he did, but Steve Howe was far superior in just about every way.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lupton on October 01, 2019, 12:01:32 PM
Hackett's flamenco playing (technically) blows away anything Steve's ever done on the classical guitar IMO.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on October 02, 2019, 04:11:40 AM
Good stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhJEcRx6CXc

The guitarist is my former teacher and a good friend of mine. He's a beast on the guitar and a great guy! I love the medleys those guys do. They also have a great one for Toto and one for Pink Floyd.
I've been trying to convince him to do a DT one.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Silent Man on October 02, 2019, 09:19:29 AM
Rutherford was, IMO, mostly average as a guitarist and a bit better than average as a bassist (although he had a few lines that are really good).  Hackett was very good for what he did, but Steve Howe was far superior in just about every way.

I'll have to say I disagree. Being a musician myself, I started listening to Genesis from early 70's and on, sucking every note they played. And one thing I can say for sure, they are all excellent musicians, including MR. His performance on Watcher of the Skies f.ex., is, together with the rest of the band, marvellous. Playing that riff throughout the song is an accomplishment in itself. Same as all their epics, where they often used to put in sections of musical madness, he's following the band with ease. And to make someting sound easy, doesn't mean it's also easy to play. On 'The Lady Lies' from 'And Then There Were Three' he starts out with a typical solid MR riff, and then in the section in the middle, they all go crazy in a fusion-type playing style. Again, he does it with ease. 'He had a few lines that are really good' - that's a hilarious statement. MR's playing is strong and full of character, something that you obviously can't grasp. I can only think that you don't know how to listen to music properly.
And then again, he's 'average' as a guitar player? What are you talking about? Would Genesis really play with an 'average guitar player'? The problem is that you don't understand his subtle and elegant style. MR always knew how to dial in a sound which suited perfectly to the song. His playing on 'We Can't Dance' is superb. The tasteful licks on 'Driving The Last Spike' has a quality that is not recognized by someone not familiar with the talents of real musicians.

Hackett was very good for what he did, but Steve Howe was far superior in just about every way.

Again, you fail big time. First, it has no meaning to compare two excellent musicians with a 'mine is bigger than yours' type of proof. Howe being superior in every way? Do you know that Hackett is an accomplished classical guitarist and recorded an album with exclusively classical pieces ('Tribute'). On that he performs a 15 min. composition of Bach's 'Chaconne'. Everyone in the world of classical guitar know how difficult this piece is. I have myself been playing classical guitar for nearly 50 years, and the last 5-6 years I have practised on Chaconne and can play about 5 min. of it without too many errors. But then the difficult parts appear and most are lost here, including myself. Hackett plays the whole piece with ease. And what I mentioned above, playing with ease doesn't mean it's easy. I don't think you know anything about what it takes to reach a level like that on classical guitar. I'll tell you it means 5-6-7 hours of practise EVERY DAY. Howe doesn't play classical guitar, it's not his thing. Do I then say that Hackett is the better player? No. I enjoy listening to both, but they are different players.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on October 02, 2019, 10:12:04 AM
Don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment (don't necessarily agree with it either) but the tone certainly leaves something to be desired. 

You yourself criticize making it a contest - implying there's no set standard - and yet you declare PG "doesn't know how to listen to music properly"?   Can you enlighten us all on "how to listen to music properly"?   

I don't always agree with PG when it comes to musical taste, but I certainly respect his opinions and how he gets there, and I suggest you might want to cut him some slack in that regard. 

I've been a Genesis fan since Abacab, and am (technically speaking) a musician (I suck, but I've been paid for my playing more than once, so...) and while I consider Mike Rutherford a top-level bass player, I consider his writing and arranging skills to be far more relevant to Genesis than his guitar playing, at least as compared to Steves Hackett and Howe.  I'm comfortable that I "know how to listen to music properly". 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Silent Man on October 02, 2019, 10:26:24 AM
Can you enlighten us all on "how to listen to music properly"?   

To recognize the talent and musicianship of a gifted musician. Sorry, calling MR a bassist with just 'a 'few interesting bass lines' and an 'average guitar player' triggered me. This is really what ppl without a clue about music and musicianship would say.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on October 02, 2019, 10:29:58 AM
Rutherford was, IMO, mostly average as a guitarist and a bit better than average as a bassist (although he had a few lines that are really good).  Hackett was very good for what he did, but Steve Howe was far superior in just about every way.

I'll have to say I disagree. Being a musician myself, I started listening to Genesis from early 70's and on, sucking every note they played. And one thing I can say for sure, they are all excellent musicians, including MR. His performance on Watcher of the Skies f.ex., is, together with the rest of the band, marvellous. Playing that riff throughout the song is an accomplishment in itself. Same as all their epics, where they often used to put in sections of musical madness, he's following the band with ease. And to make someting sound easy, doesn't mean it's also easy to play. On 'The Lady Lies' from 'And Then There Were Three' he starts out with a typical solid MR riff, and then in the section in the middle, they all go crazy in a fusion-type playing style. Again, he does it with ease. 'He had a few lines that are really good' - that's a hilarious statement. MR's playing is strong and full of character, something that you obviously can't grasp. I can only think that you don't know how to listen to music properly.
And then again, he's 'average' as a guitar player? What are you talking about? Would Genesis really play with an 'average guitar player'? The problem is that you don't understand his subtle and elegant style. MR always knew how to dial in a sound which suited perfectly to the song. His playing on 'We Can't Dance' is superb. The tasteful licks on 'Driving The Last Spike' has a quality that is not recognized by someone not familiar with the talents of real musicians.

Hackett was very good for what he did, but Steve Howe was far superior in just about every way.

Again, you fail big time. First, it has no meaning to compare two excellent musicians with a 'mine is bigger than yours' type of proof. Howe being superior in every way? Do you know that Hackett is an accomplished classical guitarist and recorded an album with exclusively classical pieces ('Tribute'). On that he performs a 15 min. composition of Bach's 'Chaconne'. Everyone in the world of classical guitar know how difficult this piece is. I have myself been playing classical guitar for nearly 50 years, and the last 5-6 years I have practised on Chaconne and can play about 5 min. of it without too many errors. But then the difficult parts appear and most are lost here, including myself. Hackett plays the whole piece with ease. And what I mentioned above, playing with ease doesn't mean it's easy. I don't think you know anything about what it takes to reach a level like that on classical guitar. I'll tell you it means 5-6-7 hours of practise EVERY DAY. Howe doesn't play classical guitar, it's not his thing. Do I then say that Hackett is the better player? No. I enjoy listening to both, but they are different players.

I'll extend you more respect than you deserve and that you extended to me and simply tell you to piss off.  I simply stated my opinions in response to someone else stating his opinions.  I didn't criticize the person whose opinions I responded to.  Nor did I use "a 'mine is bigger than yours' type of proof."  Indeed, I didn't attempt to "prove" my opinions at all (as thought it's possible to prove an opinion).  You're more than welcome to have different opinions and express those opinions, but don't be an asshat about it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Silent Man on October 02, 2019, 10:42:31 AM
Rutherford was, IMO, mostly average as a guitarist and a bit better than average as a bassist (although he had a few lines that are really good).  Hackett was very good for what he did, but Steve Howe was far superior in just about every way.

I'll have to say I disagree. Being a musician myself, I started listening to Genesis from early 70's and on, sucking every note they played. And one thing I can say for sure, they are all excellent musicians, including MR. His performance on Watcher of the Skies f.ex., is, together with the rest of the band, marvellous. Playing that riff throughout the song is an accomplishment in itself. Same as all their epics, where they often used to put in sections of musical madness, he's following the band with ease. And to make someting sound easy, doesn't mean it's also easy to play. On 'The Lady Lies' from 'And Then There Were Three' he starts out with a typical solid MR riff, and then in the section in the middle, they all go crazy in a fusion-type playing style. Again, he does it with ease. 'He had a few lines that are really good' - that's a hilarious statement. MR's playing is strong and full of character, something that you obviously can't grasp. I can only think that you don't know how to listen to music properly.
And then again, he's 'average' as a guitar player? What are you talking about? Would Genesis really play with an 'average guitar player'? The problem is that you don't understand his subtle and elegant style. MR always knew how to dial in a sound which suited perfectly to the song. His playing on 'We Can't Dance' is superb. The tasteful licks on 'Driving The Last Spike' has a quality that is not recognized by someone not familiar with the talents of real musicians.

Hackett was very good for what he did, but Steve Howe was far superior in just about every way.

Again, you fail big time. First, it has no meaning to compare two excellent musicians with a 'mine is bigger than yours' type of proof. Howe being superior in every way? Do you know that Hackett is an accomplished classical guitarist and recorded an album with exclusively classical pieces ('Tribute'). On that he performs a 15 min. composition of Bach's 'Chaconne'. Everyone in the world of classical guitar know how difficult this piece is. I have myself been playing classical guitar for nearly 50 years, and the last 5-6 years I have practised on Chaconne and can play about 5 min. of it without too many errors. But then the difficult parts appear and most are lost here, including myself. Hackett plays the whole piece with ease. And what I mentioned above, playing with ease doesn't mean it's easy. I don't think you know anything about what it takes to reach a level like that on classical guitar. I'll tell you it means 5-6-7 hours of practise EVERY DAY. Howe doesn't play classical guitar, it's not his thing. Do I then say that Hackett is the better player? No. I enjoy listening to both, but they are different players.

I'll extend you more respect than you deserve and that you extended to me and simply tell you to piss off.  I simply stated my opinions in response to someone else stating his opinions.  I didn't criticize the person whose opinions I responded to.  Nor did I use "a 'mine is bigger than yours' type of proof."  Indeed, I didn't attempt to "prove" my opinions at all (as thought it's possible to prove an opinion).  You're more than welcome to have different opinions and express those opinions, but don't be an asshat about it.

Claiming that 'Howe is superior to Hackett in every way' is a 'mine is bigger than yours' type of argument, to specify it. Just as stupid as can be. I think the best for you would be to listen to 'Easy Listening' type of music.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on October 02, 2019, 12:39:14 PM
Yeah, I'm no mod, but I know trolling when I see it.    Sorry, PG, you're on your own here.  ;)  :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on October 02, 2019, 12:39:49 PM
Good stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhJEcRx6CXc

The guitarist is my former teacher and a good friend of mine. He's a beast on the guitar and a great guy! I love the medleys those guys do. They also have a great one for Toto and one for Pink Floyd.
I've been trying to convince him to do a DT one.
Wow, that's cool! Yea i've seen those, great stuff!  :tup
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on October 02, 2019, 12:43:37 PM
Yeah, I'm no mod, but I know trolling when I see it.    Sorry, PG, you're on your own here.  ;)  :)

Fortunately, I know when to disengage from trolls.  Thanks for stepping in briefly.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on October 03, 2019, 02:57:23 AM
While I agree with a lot of stuff SilentMan said, he could (and should) have been more respectful in his answers...

Hackett is a monster player, not only on the classical side. Howe is completely different, but also a monster player. Why does one have to be "better" than the other? Guthrie Govan is faster than Petrucci. Does that mean he's better? Nope.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: hefdaddy42 on October 03, 2019, 03:23:12 AM
Silent Man, that's a warning. In this forum, there is absolutely no reason to speak to other people that way. Civility is the way to go. If you can't have a discussion about a difference of opinion without being an asshole, then this may not be the place for you.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Learning2Live on November 30, 2019, 01:23:10 PM
So I want to start getting the Genesis catalog, specifically the Gabriel-era and Gabriel-less proggy albums. I was initially given some MP3s of some early songs but now want to expand upon it. In trying to do some research on different remixed/remastered versions that are out there, I'm getting the feeling that some of these remastered versions are sub-par in sonic quality.

So for those that have the knowledge, is there a specific remixed/remastered version that are the ones to get? How is the '70-'75 box set remixes? I've invested in upgrading my home stereo equipment and now am working to get better sonic quality versions of some older albums.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 30, 2019, 01:37:15 PM
The box set remixes are mostly improvements over the original mixes, or perhaps it's the cleaned-up production as well.  Genesis, especially early Genesis, had a lot of layered sound.  Acoustic guitars, keyboards, all mixed into a backdrop for Peter Gabriel's vocals.  It's nice hearing each of the parts more clearly.  Where I have a bit of a problem is with the first "Phil era" box.  '76 Genesis (the two without Peter but still with Steve Hackett) kept a lot of layering, maybe even did more of it, but there was still a very dynamic element to the music that I feel got lost in the remixes.  Yeah, I like hearing all the parts, but some parts were meant to be softer or louder than others, not everything the same volume.  That's part of the arrangement as well.

Nursery Cryme is a good starting point because both Phil Collins and Steve Hackett joined on that album, making it the first "classic five-piece" album.

Foxtrot is also a good starting point because it's the next album, and the writing had matured a bit.  It also contains the band's magnum opus, "Supper's Ready".

A Trick of the Tail is a good starting point because it was the first album after Peter left, but the band still had a somewhat proggy sensibility.  The arrangements are simpler, but there are some nice instrumental passages.

Wind & Wuthering was the follow-up, the other four-piece album and, similar to how Foxtrot builds upon Nursery Cryme, Wind & Wuthering finds the four-piece band stretching out a bit and getting a little more proggy.  It is also the mellowist Genesis album overall (not counting Trespass), so it's proggy, but pretty chill.  Lots of instrumental.

So basically either of the first two from the Gabriel era, or the first two from the Gabriel-less era.  If you can afford the box sets, they're great values and perfectly good for building a collection quickly, so either of the first two boxes would also be great.  I bought them both and like them both.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on November 30, 2019, 01:43:35 PM
So I want to start getting the Genesis catalog, specifically the Gabriel-era and Gabriel-less proggy albums. I was initially given some MP3s of some early songs but now want to expand upon it. In trying to do some research on different remixed/remastered versions that are out there, I'm getting the feeling that some of these remastered versions are sub-par in sonic quality.

So for those that have the knowledge, is there a specific remixed/remastered version that are the ones to get? How is the '70-'75 box set remixes? I've invested in upgrading my home stereo equipment and now am working to get better sonic quality versions of some older albums.

I have the 2007 remixed versions on CD and vinyl and I like their sound a lot. I am not an audiophile guys though- but neither am I a guy who despises remastered/remixed versions of old songs because they are too far from their original versions.

So - I can in good conscience recommend these box sets to you. I have their albums as original pressings on vinyl too, but I find myself listening to the remixed versions far more often. However, by now they are not easy to get.. I needed years to bring up the money to collect them all  :lol But I am a Genesis fanboy, so I guess what needed to be done.. needed to be done  ;)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on November 30, 2019, 02:21:14 PM
Another thumbs up from me for the boxed sets.  Best investment to my music collection I ever made. 

Still need to get the live one.   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on November 30, 2019, 04:58:23 PM
Another thumbs up from me for the boxed sets.  Best investment to my music collection I ever made. 

Still need to get the live one.

I will also agree to this. I've got all five CD/DVD box sets, and they're easily some of the crown jewels in my music collection. The remasters are very good over-all, and the presentation of the albums is really nice as well, with some of them being mediabook style. I'm lucky I bought them all for a relatively cheap price not long after they came out, but I had not-long-before completed my Genesis collection from the late 90's remasters, so for awhile, I ended up with 2 sets of Genesis albums on CD! Totally worth getting them, though, but the price will depend on how much you're willing to spend. For the 70-75 box set, there are a couple on eBay right now for less than $80, but unfortunately, the other two are going for fairly high prices (averaging around $180-200 from a cursory glance).

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on November 30, 2019, 05:21:52 PM
Wait, five?

The three studio, and the live one....what's the fifth?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Trav86 on November 30, 2019, 06:24:44 PM
The Movie Box
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on November 30, 2019, 10:10:13 PM
Wait, five?

The three studio, and the live one....what's the fifth?
The Movie Box

Correct! And here's a pic I took of my box sets, way back in January 2011, so please forgive the potato-quality of the picture (taken on a phone's camera):

https://imgur.com/wGrK5hD
(https://i.imgur.com/wGrK5hD.jpg)

Looking back at my Amazon orders, I got the 76-82 set for $88 shipped and the 83-98 set for $73 shipped in Jan 2008. Fast forward, I then got the Live set for $90 shipped and the 70-75 set for $88 shipped back in May 2010, and later that year in December, got the Movie box for $68 shipped. Just a bit over $400 in all in that picture above, but it's totally worth it considering the secondary market prices on some of these box sets alone!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on December 01, 2019, 01:31:07 AM
Wait, five?

The three studio, and the live one....what's the fifth?
The Movie Box

Correct! And here's a pic I took of my box sets, way back in January 2011, so please forgive the potato-quality of the picture (taken on a phone's camera):

https://imgur.com/wGrK5hD
(https://i.imgur.com/wGrK5hD.jpg)

Looking back at my Amazon orders, I got the 76-82 set for $88 shipped and the 83-98 set for $73 shipped in Jan 2008. Fast forward, I then got the Live set for $90 shipped and the 70-75 set for $88 shipped back in May 2010, and later that year in December, got the Movie box for $68 shipped. Just a bit over $400 in all in that picture above, but it's totally worth it considering the secondary market prices on some of these box sets alone!

-Marc.

Wow, Marc, I easily paid twice as much for them  :loser:
And THEN I started collecting the vinyl box sets..........  :lol
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on December 01, 2019, 12:32:03 PM
Another vote for the boxes; I consider their 5.1 remixes on par with Crimson's, and both are the gold standard for me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on December 01, 2019, 12:39:48 PM
Wow, Marc, I easily paid twice as much for them  :loser:
And THEN I started collecting the vinyl box sets..........  :lol

OOF... I am so glad I am not invested into collecting vinyl - those box sets would have KILLED me financially as I am sure they are not cheap.

I guess I got my CD sets at a good time, not too long after they came out, but not right when they were new and people were probably price-gouging them.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on December 01, 2019, 02:07:41 PM
Ok, now I have to post my boxsets too  ;D


(https://i.ibb.co/dK63pnj/IMG-1469-2.jpg)

I got them a few years after they got out. When they were first released I was like 14-15, I couldn't even afford that then. I got the last one (the green vinyl one) in April 2018.

Btw, you guys might also like what's playing right now  :D
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Learning2Live on December 01, 2019, 06:14:52 PM
Thank you all for the replies! Box set it is then. Thanks again!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 07, 2019, 07:27:59 PM
Wait, five?

The three studio, and the live one....what's the fifth?
The Movie Box

Correct! And here's a pic I took of my box sets, way back in January 2011, so please forgive the potato-quality of the picture (taken on a phone's camera):

https://imgur.com/wGrK5hD
(https://i.imgur.com/wGrK5hD.jpg)

Looking back at my Amazon orders, I got the 76-82 set for $88 shipped and the 83-98 set for $73 shipped in Jan 2008. Fast forward, I then got the Live set for $90 shipped and the 70-75 set for $88 shipped back in May 2010, and later that year in December, got the Movie box for $68 shipped. Just a bit over $400 in all in that picture above, but it's totally worth it considering the secondary market prices on some of these box sets alone!

-Marc.

Nice!  The Blue Box suits my needs but I still consider getting the Red one.  Also have the full set of '90s remasters some original post-Gabriel pressings and and Archive 2)

There are like the box I have but there are some aspects of the '90s remasters and the originals that I like also so I unfortunately have to keep most of that crap around instead of settling on one particular pressing.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 07, 2019, 07:31:26 PM
Wow, Marc, I easily paid twice as much for them  :loser:
And THEN I started collecting the vinyl box sets..........  :lol

OOF... I am so glad I am not invested into collecting vinyl - those box sets would have KILLED me financially as I am sure they are not cheap.

I guess I got my CD sets at a good time, not too long after they came out, but not right when they were new and people were probably price-gouging them.

-Marc.

I never jumped on the vinyl resurgence train (well except for Rush) either because I would need to know how these were mastered.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on January 25, 2020, 11:44:45 AM
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway Illustrated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JszTrQdL314&feature=emb_title
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: emtee on January 25, 2020, 12:23:14 PM
Recent pics of Banks, Rutherford and Collins hanging together have sparked reunion questions.

It would be amazing for them to put out a new album. Probably not likely but I sure would love it.

Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on January 25, 2020, 07:29:23 PM
Recent pics of Banks, Rutherford and Collins hanging together have sparked reunion questions.

It would be amazing for them to put out a new album. Probably not likely but I sure would love it.

Don't get my hopes up...  I went through a MASSIVE Genesis kick about a month ago, and it was just so fulfilling (yes, that's the exact word I want to use).   I even debated going to see a Genesis four-man tribute band earlier this month (but ultimately couldn't).   ;) :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on January 25, 2020, 08:08:59 PM
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway Illustrated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JszTrQdL314&feature=emb_title

When I saw this link earlier, I assumed it was just the song.   But it's an hour and a half long video!!  Is it the ENTIRE ALBUM???  THIS IS AWESOME!!!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on January 29, 2020, 06:57:33 PM


Don't get my hopes up...  I went through a MASSIVE Genesis kick about a month ago, and it was just so fulfilling (yes, that's the exact word I want to use).   I even debated going to see a Genesis four-man tribute band earlier this month (but ultimately couldn't).   ;) :)

I was considering seeing a tribute band doing the Three Sides Live Tour which would be the just about the only Genesis show I would pay to see at this point. I suppose the Duke Tour would be a close runner up to that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on January 30, 2020, 12:09:58 AM
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway Illustrated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JszTrQdL314&feature=emb_title (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JszTrQdL314&feature=emb_title)

When I saw this link earlier, I assumed it was just the song.   But it's an hour and a half long video!!  Is it the ENTIRE ALBUM???  THIS IS AWESOME!!!

I watched this last night. It's awesome indeed! For me who have zero grasp of the actual concept, it was very helpful of understanding it more. But man, is that a weird and surreal story :lol
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on January 30, 2020, 06:36:12 AM
The original album had the entire story written out inside the jacket, first person told by Rael, but it was still pretty weird.  Also, the point of view was that of someone who may have been mentally unstable, and may have been imagining the whole thing, so it didn't really make sense anyway.  I think the idea was to experience the story, complete with confusion, uncertainty, and fear, along with him.  Between that and the lyrics, which were also completely written out on the sleeves, you could get the jist of most of the story.  But I don't know if it has ever made total sense to me, and I've been listening to it for 40+ years.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on January 30, 2020, 06:44:22 AM
Im a little bit afraid to watch a video of the ENTIRE lamb album animated.

The Lamb is a weird wild trip, and it has some really great moments. But it remains probably my least favorite Genesis album (though I dont care too much for Trespass either). Too wordy, too weird, and at times too gross. Its missing a lot of the more pastoral moments that make early Genesis great. Ultimately, it ended up being for the best I think for PG to go his own way after this. Genesis got to reset a little stylistically and melodically, and he got to push on with his more experimental mindset.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on January 30, 2020, 06:52:16 AM
I feel the same way.  I still mostly listen to albums in their entirety, and a lot of The Lamb is just there.  The little connecting bits, and the weird stuff, I find myself just waiting to get to the next part I actually like.  It's impressive to be able to create that much music and make a cohesive story (more or less) out of it, so they get points for that.  Prog bands and concept albums.  And there's a lot of really cool stuff along the way, but overall The Lamb doesn't get played a lot by me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on January 30, 2020, 07:55:11 AM
I was thinking last night that the first half (the first disc of the two) are much more to my liking. The first half is full of memorable stuff, catchy, melodic, but still progressive songs - just awesome. While the second half is way more progressive and less accessible to me. Aside from The Colony Of Slippermen and It - all of my favourite tracks on the album is on the first half.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dave_Manchester on January 31, 2020, 05:38:44 AM
Hey guys, quick question: I was watching a Genesis ranking video yesterday...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJHacEDPL50&t=5s

...and I noticed that the guy sometimes holds up 2-disc editions of the albums (for example of Foxtrot and Selling England By the Pound). I can't find any info on these editions, and the albums' Wikipedia pages make no mention of double disc versions ever being released. Does anyone own these editions? If so, can you tell me what's on the 2nd discs? Much obliged.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ChuckSteak on January 31, 2020, 05:49:48 AM
Hey guys, quick question: I was watching a Genesis ranking video yesterday...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJHacEDPL50&t=5s

...and I noticed that the guy sometimes holds up 2-disc editions of the albums (for example of Foxtrot and Selling England By the Pound). I can't find any info on these editions, and the albums' Wikipedia pages make no mention of double disc versions ever being released. Does anyone own these editions? If so, can you tell me what's the 2nd discs? Much obliged.
I haven't watched the video, but according to discogs there isn't any 2-disc release of these albums. It is probably the 2007/2008 CD+DVD version.

https://www.discogs.com/Genesis-Foxtrot/master/28853
https://www.discogs.com/Genesis-Selling-England-By-The-Pound/master/29224
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on January 31, 2020, 06:04:21 AM
Got to be the CD/DVD-A versions.

Although I will say that those are among the greatest boxed sets Ive ever owned. I still need to get the Live one and the Movie one.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dave_Manchester on January 31, 2020, 06:12:19 AM
Thanks guys. So the DVDs are just the album tracks?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Max Kuehnau on January 31, 2020, 06:13:41 AM
Thanks guys. So the DVDs are just the album tracks?
yes, but with a surround mix (and probably high-res stereo, 24 bit and all that, not sure about that though), also including interviews by the band members and other video content in some cases
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on January 31, 2020, 08:58:10 AM
The only 5.1 mixes that come close to the Genesis ones are the King Crimson ones.  I agree with Jammin, those are some of the best box sets I own.

Full disclosure:  the mixes on the 2-disc versions are SLIGHTLY different (though you may not even notice).   They had to be remixed to facilitate the surround mixes.   I know I've kept the "Definitive Edition Remasters" as well, as they reflect the original mixes.  To be honest, I can't really point to even one instance where they are noticeably different. But if you're a completist...

The interviews ARE worth it, though I can't imagine you'll come back to them more than once or twice.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 31, 2020, 10:40:10 AM
The only 5.1 mixes that come close to the Genesis ones are the King Crimson ones.  I agree with Jammin, those are some of the best box sets I own.

Full disclosure:  the mixes on the 2-disc versions are SLIGHTLY different (though you may not even notice).   They had to be remixed to facilitate the surround mixes.   I know I've kept the "Definitive Edition Remasters" as well, as they reflect the original mixes.  To be honest, I can't really point to even one instance where they are noticeably different. But if you're a completist...

The interviews ARE worth it, though I can't imagine you'll come back to them more than once or twice.

Honestly the interviews  are so perfect in their content that I have actually come back to them several times. Some albums are a little more in-depth than others but I am surprised at how honest they are. Even the interviews with Ray Wilson are surprisingly blunt. So damn intriguing.

 as for reunions, I just don't think it will be the same. I saw phil in concert last year and I'm glad I did but he has lost a lot, not just his ability to walk. With Genesis being such a high energy band I think it would just be a shell of itself. With that said, if there was a reunions I don't think I could resist the urge to go. I screwed up big-time and only got into Genesis about six years ago.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dave_Manchester on February 12, 2020, 04:45:05 PM
Happy 70th birthday to Peter Gabriel (at least where I am. The rest of you might need to wait a few hours).

His 4th solo album, as well as Trespass through Lamb, are some of the most important albums to me. I'll be spinning them all at some point today.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on February 13, 2020, 12:06:07 AM
And happy 70th to Steve Hackett, whose birthday it was yesterday (12th) :P
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on March 03, 2020, 11:05:45 AM
People are believing this band to be Genesis.

https://twitter.com/BBCRadio2/status/1234829325976965121

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESL-oRrWoAAUtoM?format=png&name=small)

16 & 17 Nov. Dublin
19 & 20 Nov. Belfast
23 & 24 Nov. Liverpool
26 & 27 Nov. Leeds
30Nov & 1Dec. London
2 & 3 Dec. Manchester
5 & 6 Dec. Birmingham
7 & 8 Dec. Glasgow
11 & 12 Dec. Newcastle
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on March 03, 2020, 11:11:59 AM
:dangerwillrobinson:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on March 03, 2020, 01:56:13 PM
The Sun reporting this to be true.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/11091521/genesis-announce-new-2020-uk-tour/
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on March 03, 2020, 02:24:55 PM
Just this morning I replied to this post in the German progrock FB community. With "Last time we were promised very exciting news from Genesis, we got that stupid R-Kive compilation with the childish "Gensise"-Logo. I don't believe in a reunion of my favorite band anymore." ... well I'm believing it when I see it. If they'd play one show in the place furthest away possible in the world from me, I'd fly there.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 03, 2020, 04:38:07 PM
It's starting to leak out now.  The official announcement is supposed to be Wednesday (U.K. time, presumably), but a few sources have it.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/11091521/genesis-announce-new-2020-uk-tour/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/11091521/genesis-announce-new-2020-uk-tour/)

https://www.vulture.com/2020/03/genesis-reunion-tour-2020.html (https://www.vulture.com/2020/03/genesis-reunion-tour-2020.html)

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/03/genesis-reuniting-comeback-tour-2020-12344033/ (https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/03/genesis-reuniting-comeback-tour-2020-12344033/)


I know.  The Sun, Vulture, Metro UK, all "somewhat questionable" sources.  But maybe.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: King Postwhore on March 03, 2020, 05:39:54 PM
Sounds like Collins' 20 year old son will be drumming for the tour.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 03, 2020, 06:06:35 PM
I saw something about that.  I guess back in 2018 they talked a little bit about getting together, so this isn't quite out of the blue.  Phil said at that time that since he couldn't play, he wanted his son Nicholas on the kit.  I love Chester Thompson though, too.  Chester and Nicholas together could be cool.  And presumably they'd contact Daryl Steurmer as well.  The next few days could be interesting.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on March 03, 2020, 07:03:04 PM
I guess they need more money. :lol :lol

If this is true, I know some will fret about it not being the classic 5, but if they did that, there would be nothing for Phil Collins to do.  He can't drum anymore, only sing, so reuniting with just the trio is the only way he could be a big part of the show, since a reunion of the quintet would mean playing mostly the early material (PG and Hackett would not do a tour to play a bunch of material from after they left the band) where PG is doing almost all of the lead singing and Collins would have nothing to do.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: King Postwhore on March 03, 2020, 08:19:37 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/P54YBP51/FB-IMG-1583291926071.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on March 04, 2020, 02:52:48 AM
It's official:

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89083558_10159528978233206_3602983975112409088_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=dd9801&_nc_ohc=RggVrgIsAf8AX92W8Z1&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f4e84fb185aa26ad0aeab34adff59eee&oe=5E94D561)

Genesis are delighted to announce that Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford will be touring the UK in late 2020!
Tickets go on sale on Friday at 9am.
More info here https://Genesis.lnk.to/Website
#lastdomino
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: emtee on March 04, 2020, 07:02:35 AM
Wow!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on March 04, 2020, 07:22:11 AM
Sweet!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 04, 2020, 07:50:14 AM
I should be excited, but I'm not.

Some old men playing the same music live, that they played on their last tour and probably on a couple of tours before that? And it's probably expensive. Not really interested in that. Now if they would change the set list and pull out some deep cuts and/or have Peter Gabriel and/or Steve Hackett for a couple of guest spots, that would get me excited, but that's probably not gonna happen.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on March 04, 2020, 08:18:41 AM
I should be excited, but I'm not.

Some old men playing the same music live, that they played on their last tour and probably on a couple of tours before that? And it's probably expensive. Not really interested in that. Now if they would change the set list and pull out some deep cuts and/or have Peter Gabriel and/or Steve Hackett for a couple of guest spots, that would get me excited, but that's probably not gonna happen.

You're not going to ruin my happy mood like so many other pessimistic people out there, and you shouldn't. Just be happy for the people who never got the chance to see these three together performing their compositions.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on March 04, 2020, 08:22:58 AM
I have a feeling that there will be an appearance by either Steve or Peter on at least one of those UK dates for a song or two.

I base that on absolutely nothing though, just the hopeless nostalgic in me :P
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 04, 2020, 08:29:47 AM
Sorry, not trying to ruin everyone's mood. Please have fun and enjoy the news.

It's just that I had (albeit small) hopes that it would be more than "just" the Collins era Genesis reunion. And I'm not pessimistic, I'm just not thrilled.

So please have fun and enjoy the show.  :metal
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on March 04, 2020, 09:14:38 AM
Steve Hackett just tweeted this:

Quote
Terrific news for Genesis fans! Whilst Phil, Mike and Tony prioritise the 80s, my show celebrates the 70s classics, including the whole of Seconds Out late 20/early 21... 

https://twitter.com/hackettofficial/status/1235235306166681605?s=21

The fact is Hackett has been stewarding the 5 and 4 piece era for some time, and he is probably doing it better with his lineup than the other members of Genesis can. Its also true that the 3 man era was longer and far more popular than any one of the prior eras. The audience for a reunion that includes Gabriel (who seems to have no interest) and Hackett is much smaller than the audience for the 3 man Genesis. That said, Im sure everyone would love to see even just one show that featured an encore with Hackett and/or Gabriel doing something like The Carpet Crawlers.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 04, 2020, 10:27:12 AM
Steve Hackett confuses me.  He was in Genesis for four years of their 40-year run, and left the band.  Since then he's had very little positive to say about his time with Genesis or the other members.  Yet for the past several years, his entire gig is based on the few years he was in Genesis.

His Genesis Revisited shows are, by all accounts, very good.  Great musicians, great music, great show.  So of course he takes a moment to congratulate the core trio, and a somewhat longer moment to pimp his own band, taking a shot at the trio disguised as a compliment.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on March 04, 2020, 11:04:25 AM
part of the issue that it seems rarely if ever is brought up about Gabriel is the fact he likely can't even sing most of that stuff anymore.

An octave down? I doubt he'd be happy doing that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lupton on March 04, 2020, 01:47:32 PM
So no Chester? Is it going to be Phil's son on the stool? Surely they'll need a 2nd guitarist, so I'm guessing they're going to go with Daryl who can teach Mike how to play all the songs again.  :lol

Sorry. I'm not aware of any of the details of the band yet. But that's really important to me in regard as to "will any of the performances actually be good?"

[edit: actually found some information. Looks like it's going to be Nic and Daryl: https://www.loudersound.com/news/genesis-announce-2020-reunion-tour]
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 04, 2020, 03:04:38 PM
I haven't seen anything about Chester, either, so apparently he's not in the picture.  That would seem to leave Nic alone in the drumming department.  It seems an odd choice, as they've played with a second drummer every tour since 1976 (always Chester, except for the one tour with Bill Bruford), but hey, it's their call obviously.

Daryl is on board, though.  Historically, Daryl usually played guitar on the parts originally played by Steve Hackett, and played bass when there were guitar parts originally played by Mike.  Presumably it will be similar this time.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on March 04, 2020, 03:40:01 PM
This is intriguing:

"Banks adds that having Nic Collins taking his father's place behind the drum kit is a crucial part of the tour.

'Nic is a great drummer, but he is capable of sounding like early Phil. For Mike and I, that was always quite exciting. It means you can play some of the songs that you haven't played with Phil as the drummer for a long time.

'Were playing old material, but therell be some new old material this time. Songs we didnt play last time.'


Although I find the reference to "old material" somewhat interesting.  Given that all of the relevant material is over 28 years old, it's all "old" at this point.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on March 04, 2020, 03:55:02 PM
They're never going to do anything out of the ordinary or from their early early days. ...they just seem embarrassed by it. "Old material" probably means stuff from Duke/Abacab
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on March 04, 2020, 04:01:15 PM
They're never going to do anything out of the ordinary or from their early early days. ...they just seem embarrassed by it. "Old material" probably means stuff from Duke/Abacab

The 2007 tour had a fair amount of Gabriel/Hackett era material.

E.g.:  https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/genesis/2007/hollywood-bowl-los-angeles-ca-63d6f66f.html
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lupton on March 04, 2020, 08:26:20 PM
Well I for one am rather fond of the "commercial" period of Genesis' output. Of course I don't like it as much as the 70s stuff, but I like the way they adjusted to the (then) current landscape and still made good music that didn't sound like they were simply trying to write hits. It all feels very natural and genuine to me. I dig Abacab/Shapes/IT and parts of WCD.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on March 04, 2020, 08:37:17 PM
I agree.  I don't think that Genesis sacrificed their artistic integrity the way they're sometimes accused of doing.  I think they're an insanely talented bunch of guys who continued to write music the way they wanted to.  Just because they managed to become hugely popular for a while doesn't mean they were sellouts.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Polarbear on March 05, 2020, 02:38:22 AM
Fingers crossed that this expands into a European Tour! :tup
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on March 05, 2020, 07:43:38 AM
I'll look, but I think it was the deluxe "When In Rome" DVD package, but I'm on board with this notion that they didn't sacrifice their artistic integrity.  There a couple of segments in the various docs that show them going through the machinations of creating and delivering their music.   I think most people forget that they STARTED as a vehicle for their songwriting, and at the heart of all their material, from Trespass to We Can't Dance, was the song.  They just, in a sense, got better at it as they went on.   I can't fault them for wanting recognition for their craft, so there's that, and there was always, on every record, at least some chops and playing, even if it wasn't wrapped in obscure nonsense like "Battle Of Epping Forest" (I hate that song). 

There's a clip of Tony going through his sounds, there's a clip of them doing an acoustic version of Ripples, there's a clip of Phil and Chester mapping out the "Two Stools" bit on a hotel chair (that is AWESOME), and a clip of the band working through one of the medleys. I'm certainly not flying to Great Britain to see this, but I have no reservations or concerns about it.  It's three guys that are musicians and have been since their teens doing what they know how to do best.  God bless them.  I'm tired at 52, and for them to want to do this at 70, 69, and (at the time of the shows) 70 is admirable to me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on March 05, 2020, 09:20:06 PM
The When in Rome documentary is awesome! I thought it was kind of bold of them to show them practicing a song (I think In Too Deep) and Phil struggles to hit the high notes. So they end up tuning down. They still sounded great.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jcmoorehead on March 06, 2020, 03:51:21 AM
Well I got my tickets!

Cheapest tickets for the first night at the SSE Hydro, I'm at the back/top but still really excited. Genesis were one of the first bands I knew of growing up. I know it isn't considered their best album but I grew up listening to We Can't Dance and in my later teens and 20s I discovered the rest of their discography and just how wonderful and varied it all is.

I'm also seeing Steve Hackett a month before at the Edinburgh Playhouse which should be incredible too.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on March 06, 2020, 03:15:46 PM
Well I got my tickets!

Cheapest tickets for the first night at the SSE Hydro, I'm at the back/top but still really excited. Genesis were one of the first bands I knew of growing up. I know it isn't considered their best album but I grew up listening to We Can't Dance and in my later teens and 20s I discovered the rest of their discography and just how wonderful and varied it all is.

I'm also seeing Steve Hackett a month before at the Edinburgh Playhouse which should be incredible too.

This could be my post :D

I will be at that show as well, and while I didn't get the best tickets, I still got some. I was still pissed when they announced additional shows where I could have bought better tickets for the same price.

And I will be attending Hackett's concert in Dresden, in October :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on March 14, 2020, 07:30:53 PM
Steve Hackett confuses me.  He was in Genesis for four years of their 40-year run, and left the band.  Since then he's had very little positive to say about his time with Genesis or the other members.  Yet for the past several years, his entire gig is based on the few years he was in Genesis.

His Genesis Revisited shows are, by all accounts, very good.  Great musicians, great music, great show.  So of course he takes a moment to congratulate the core trio, and a somewhat longer moment to pimp his own band, taking a shot at the trio disguised as a compliment.

I'd much rather see a Hackett or Gabriel show than a Genesis show. But I've felt that way for 30 years.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: RickyGervais on March 17, 2020, 09:37:27 AM
Thought some of you might enjoy this. "Let's go on a little journey"...

Phil Collins: A 6 Minute Drum Chronology
https://youtu.be/ZI1cgNePd3w
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: MinistroRaven on April 17, 2020, 09:34:11 AM
From PC facebook page:

Introducing the Genesis Film Festival, a celebration of live footage for you to enjoy at home during lockdown! Over the coming 5 weeks, every Saturday from 8pm BST / 2pm EDT / 11am PDT a new Genesis concert film will be made available to watch on the bands official YouTube channel for 7 days. First up this week is Three Sides Live from 1981! Dont miss a thing by subscribing to the channel now - smarturl.it/YouTubeGenesis

#GenesisFilmFestival programme

Saturday, April 18th Three Sides Live (1981)
Saturday, April 25th The Mama Tour (1984)
Saturday, May 2nd Live At Wembley Stadium (1987)
Saturday, May 9th The Way We Walk (1992)
Saturday, May 16th When In Rome (2007)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: emtee on April 17, 2020, 09:39:36 AM
Awesome! Thanks for the heads-up.

I'll be watching those.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 17, 2020, 11:02:29 AM
Ugh, Genesis, my beloved Genesis.

Of course they'd release the concerts that every fan already has in their collection. Instead of unreleased video material. I'm sure there IS something.

I'll still take this as opportunity to re-watch them all. I hope the quality is good.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on April 17, 2020, 12:18:58 PM
Ugh, Genesis, my beloved Genesis.

Of course they'd release the concerts that every fan already has in their collection. Instead of unreleased video material. I'm sure there IS something.

I'll still take this as opportunity to re-watch them all. I hope the quality is good.

Lots of complaints on the FB page about this very point, but I guess the counter-argument is that the band doesn't have the legal rights to anything beyond what has already been released, so they're stuck with it.

Someone even said that there's a full show of the TotT (I think) show that was released in part to theaters...but the band only has the rights to the finished product, while the filmmaker still holds the rights to the original film.   And I guess the band wanted to buy it from him at one point, but he wanted an insane amount of money, so they walked away.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 17, 2020, 02:07:46 PM
Ugh, Genesis, my beloved Genesis.

Of course they'd release the concerts that every fan already has in their collection. Instead of unreleased video material. I'm sure there IS something.

I'll still take this as opportunity to re-watch them all. I hope the quality is good.

Lots of complaints on the FB page about this very point, but I guess the counter-argument is that the band doesn't have the legal rights to anything beyond what has already been released, so they're stuck with it.

Someone even said that there's a full show of the TotT (I think) show that was released in part to theaters...but the band only has the rights to the finished product, while the filmmaker still holds the rights to the original film.   And I guess the band wanted to buy it from him at one point, but he wanted an insane amount of money, so they walked away.

Yes; that's the "In Concert" film by Tony Mylar or Mayhem or something like that.  It's on the TotT re-release from the '07 box sets.  The film is like an hour long, and intercut with other footage (like "The Song Remains The Same") but for some reason Mayhem won't let go the full tapes.  It's actually two shows, one from Glasgow and one from England, I forget where.  The music from that film was, along with Abacab, what got me into Genesis way back in the day.  "Entangled" from Archive 2 set is from one of those shows.   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: frogprog on April 18, 2020, 08:38:48 PM
Thanks for the heads up on this! I thoroughly enjoyed Three Sides Live tonight. I look forward to watching the Mama tour next week. I don't think I ever saw that film and I'm bummed I didn't see that tour live back into in the day at one of the 3 nights at the Spectrum in Philly.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 20, 2020, 07:54:33 AM
I don't know if this is the place or not, but I got Phil's "Going Back" this weekend, and while it's not for everyone, if you're a fan of some of those 60's Mo-town (and Mo-town-esque) tracks, this is a real find.   He does them faithfully and with love, and it's a good listen.  I think if you're a purist you might have issue, but I'm not, so...

(And it's always amazing how many songs I know that I had no idea of the title or who did them.   "Uptight (Everybody's Alright)" was the real revelation here. I've heard that song 100 times or more, and LOVE it, and had no idea that it was Stevie Wonder, or the title was "Uptight", or even that that was what was sung after the "Everybody's alright" refrain.  (The lyric is "Everybody's alright! Uptight! Outta sight!")
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 20, 2020, 08:45:09 AM
I have Going Back, but have never taken the time to listen to it (bought a cheap box set of all of his reissued solo albums a few years back). Will have to check it out some time.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 20, 2020, 03:30:41 PM
I don't know if this is the place or not, but I got Phil's "Going Back" this weekend, and while it's not for everyone, if you're a fan of some of those 60's Mo-town (and Mo-town-esque) tracks, this is a real find.   He does them faithfully and with love, and it's a good listen.  I think if you're a purist you might have issue, but I'm not, so...

(And it's always amazing how many songs I know that I had no idea of the title or who did them.   "Uptight (Everybody's Alright)" was the real revelation here. I've heard that song 100 times or more, and LOVE it, and had no idea that it was Stevie Wonder, or the title was "Uptight", or even that that was what was sung after the "Everybody's alright" refrain.  (The lyric is "Everybody's alright! Uptight! Outta sight!")

I think the keyword here is "love": this album is really done with love. And if there's one thing I like about Phil's music, it's the honesty it's made with. He does what he does, no matter what critics (and old-school Genesis fans lol) will say, and he loves doing it  :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Nel on April 20, 2020, 07:22:26 PM
(And it's always amazing how many songs I know that I had no idea of the title or who did them.   "Uptight (Everybody's Alright)" was the real revelation here. I've heard that song 100 times or more, and LOVE it, and had no idea that it was Stevie Wonder, or the title was "Uptight", or even that that was what was sung after the "Everybody's alright" refrain.  (The lyric is "Everybody's alright! Uptight! Outta sight!")

Uptight and Standing In the Shadows Of Love are the highlights of that album for me. It's a fun collection of covers. Hard to believe it's already been ten years since it came out.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 21, 2020, 07:01:04 AM
I don't know if this is the place or not, but I got Phil's "Going Back" this weekend, and while it's not for everyone, if you're a fan of some of those 60's Mo-town (and Mo-town-esque) tracks, this is a real find.   He does them faithfully and with love, and it's a good listen.  I think if you're a purist you might have issue, but I'm not, so...

(And it's always amazing how many songs I know that I had no idea of the title or who did them.   "Uptight (Everybody's Alright)" was the real revelation here. I've heard that song 100 times or more, and LOVE it, and had no idea that it was Stevie Wonder, or the title was "Uptight", or even that that was what was sung after the "Everybody's alright" refrain.  (The lyric is "Everybody's alright! Uptight! Outta sight!")

I think the keyword here is "love": this album is really done with love. And if there's one thing I like about Phil's music, it's the honesty it's made with. He does what he does, no matter what critics (and old-school Genesis fans lol) will say, and he loves doing it  :)

See, I agree with that 100%; so it baffles me that one of the enduring criticisms is that his solo stuff lacks that very quality.  I think he's woefully under-rated in that way.  I know it's a sort of arbitrary thing to bring up, but for me, he is the single most egregious RnRHoF snub at this point.  Why he's not in as a solo artist/individual is a crime.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 21, 2020, 08:10:02 AM
He isn't????

I don't understand that at all. He is arguably one of the 5 biggest pop stars in music history. No one can fill a 2,5 hours concert with only songs that every normal person would recognise, even if they aren't a Collins fan (with the possible exception of Paul McCartney).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 21, 2020, 08:41:20 AM
Yeah, I kind of thought he was, but only with Genesis it appears.

While were on the topic of Phil Collins solo career, his bassist Leland Sklar has been posting frequent videos of himself on YouTube playing along to various Collins and Genesis songs, and its really great.

I really like the line from Another Day in Paradise:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LRnpcTHKHqs

Heres Throwing it All Away with a random Andy Griffith anecdote:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QUALZF1PDnY
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 21, 2020, 09:48:22 AM
He isn't????

I don't understand that at all. He is arguably one of the 5 biggest pop stars in music history. No one can fill a 2,5 hours concert with only songs that every normal person would recognise, even if they aren't a Collins fan (with the possible exception of Paul McCartney).

I don't know if it's still current, but for a long while he was one of only three artists to have sold 100 million records as a part of a group AND as a solo artist.  The other two - McCartney and Michael Jackson - are in as both.  Peter Gabriel is in as both. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 21, 2020, 12:18:15 PM
Thanks for the heads up on this! I thoroughly enjoyed Three Sides Live tonight. I look forward to watching the Mama tour next week. I don't think I ever saw that film and I'm bummed I didn't see that tour live back into in the day at one of the 3 nights at the Spectrum in Philly.

Watching Three Sides Live online for like the 5th of 6th time. Probably like the CD more because there is more music but I forgot about the incidental vignettes sprinkled throughout so that was cool to watch too, but I wish there was a version without that when I just want the music.  They were totally on fire.  Great balance of old and new. (I keep playing Abacab over and over again!)

I still may need to get the DVD.  I'll watch the Mama Tour too and then I'm out. MAYBE I'll hang around for the Invisible Touch Tour.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 21, 2020, 12:21:40 PM
Thanks for the heads up on this! I thoroughly enjoyed Three Sides Live tonight. I look forward to watching the Mama tour next week. I don't think I ever saw that film and I'm bummed I didn't see that tour live back into in the day at one of the 3 nights at the Spectrum in Philly.

Watching Three Sides Live online for like the 5th of 6th time. Probably like the CD more because there is more music but I forgot about the incidental vignettes sprinkled throughout so that was cool to watch too, but I wish there was a version without that when I just want the music.  They were totally on fire.  Great balance of old and new. (I keep playing Abacab over and over again!)

I still may need to get the DVD.  I'll watch the Mama Tour too and then I'm out. MAYBE I'll hang around for the Invisible Touch Tour.

The IT performance is pretty darn good.   That's the tour I actually saw live (in an arena), but that's also the phase where Phil has the mullet, so there's that.  (I always loved that almost certainly unintentional metaphor:  business in the front, i.e. stage front, when he was singing, and party in the rear, i.e. when he went back and let loose on drums.)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 21, 2020, 12:26:13 PM
I don't know if this is the place or not, but I got Phil's "Going Back" this weekend, and while it's not for everyone, if you're a fan of some of those 60's Mo-town (and Mo-town-esque) tracks, this is a real find.   He does them faithfully and with love, and it's a good listen.  I think if you're a purist you might have issue, but I'm not, so...

(And it's always amazing how many songs I know that I had no idea of the title or who did them.   "Uptight (Everybody's Alright)" was the real revelation here. I've heard that song 100 times or more, and LOVE it, and had no idea that it was Stevie Wonder, or the title was "Uptight", or even that that was what was sung after the "Everybody's alright" refrain.  (The lyric is "Everybody's alright! Uptight! Outta sight!")


Won't go out of my way for it, but if I see it in a used bin I'd pick it up.  Waited something like 10 years already so I guess I'm in no hurry. I bought his Big Band  album right away and it's still great listen. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: frogprog on April 21, 2020, 12:41:18 PM
Thanks for those Leland Solar videos. That guy is such a great bass player.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 21, 2020, 03:14:56 PM
Watching Three Sides Live online for like the 5th of 6th time. Probably like the CD more because there is more music but I forgot about the incidental vignettes sprinkled throughout so that was cool to watch too, but I wish there was a version without that when I just want the music.  They were totally on fire.  Great balance of old and new. (I keep playing Abacab over and over again!)

Those cuts drive me crazy.  This is one of my favorite videos because of the music, but the editing makes me want to hurt someone.  Nowadays, they'd probably include the interviews and other stuff as "bonus material" on the DVD or Blu-ray, but back in the VHS era, this was how they did it.  I bought the Blu-ray, hoping that there was some kind of option to just watch the concert footage, but nope.  At least you can skip to the next segment.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 22, 2020, 07:07:00 AM
Watching Three Sides Live online for like the 5th of 6th time. Probably like the CD more because there is more music but I forgot about the incidental vignettes sprinkled throughout so that was cool to watch too, but I wish there was a version without that when I just want the music.  They were totally on fire.  Great balance of old and new. (I keep playing Abacab over and over again!)

Those cuts drive me crazy.  This is one of my favorite videos because of the music, but the editing makes me want to hurt someone.  Nowadays, they'd probably include the interviews and other stuff as "bonus material" on the DVD or Blu-ray, but back in the VHS era, this was how they did it.  I bought the Blu-ray, hoping that there was some kind of option to just watch the concert footage, but nope.  At least you can skip to the next segment.

When Genesis released the five big box sets - in my opinion the second best remastering/remixing program by any band (behind King Crimson) - I was a regular poster at the Genesis and Phil Collins boards.  There were three abiding critiques of the sets:
- much of the bonus material used was widely available already to the trading community (VERY robust trading community, I might add) and failed to even use the best available sources;
- almost all of the holy grails were skipped:  the full "In Concert" sources (two '76 shows), the full 3SL sources (the two NY shows and the Birmingham show), ANY full Lamb footage; and
- absent all of those, a recutting of the 3SL film to get rid of the interspersed footage.

I don't know if it's a coincidence or not, but there are distinct parallels with Led Zeppelin here.   Their concert film had the same sort of "interjections", and the corresponding album had different/alternate tracks to the film.  When the remaster of TSRTS came out, in 2007, it was the same complaint(s):  the CD was expanded to include additional songs (some from the movie, some not) but the new version of the film did not fix some of the problems with the video segments, and they did not offer the three MSG shows in their entirety.  The small concession was that the new CD and film had different versions of the tracks than the original album and film.   That's not the case as far as I can tell with Genesis (though there are remixes of some of the audio on the "Live" box).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 22, 2020, 08:54:23 AM
Yep, all of that sounds pretty familiar, and I agree with the complaints regarding The Song Remains the Same.  I happen to like the original CD version, but there's an obvious audio flaw during the keyboard solo in "No Quarter".  I assumed that they ("they" probably meaning Jimmy Page) would fix that, but instead they just used a different performance from a different night.  Crap.  I really like that solo; I just wanted to hear it fixed.

My two favorite Genesis periods are 1976 (the four-piece era) and early 80's (Three Sides Live).  And those are the two era almost devoid of decent video releases. :(
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 22, 2020, 09:33:46 AM
I'm not suggesting you read all of this (though I did when I ripped my Zeppelin to hard drive; I now have three versions to listen to!), but just the fact that it exists is fascinating to me. 

The Garden Tapes
www.thegardentapes.co.uk

Page clearly took a lot of time and effort to assemble all four versions of TSRTS (as well as the MSG material that made it onto the Led Zeppelin DVD) but with all that, it's STILL maddening that so many instances of seemingly "poor choices" exist.  I have to believe there's a reason for what was done - and we just don't know what it is - but some of those songs were utterly butchered if you believe this.   Black Dog, Heartbreaker, Dazed And Confused, Whole Lotta Love and Moby Dick are the obvious examples.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 22, 2020, 09:53:25 AM
Someone turned me on to The Garden Tapes a few years back, and I read a bunch of it, including a lot of the ridiculous editing done to The Song Remains the Same.

I would always prefer a live album to be an actual, unedited recording of a live performance.  I used to think that it must be because I myself am a musician who lives for live performance.  I want to hear what they played, every note both good and bad.  But obviously Jimmy Page and many others are also musicians, and there are those who want to hear the "ideal" live performance.  If you could hear the song played live, perfectly, capturing all the excitement of a live performance, the sponaneity, the one-time moments of musical brilliance, wouldn't you want to hear that?  Well, sure.  That's what Jimmy seems to be striving for by editing two notes out of one performance and replacing them with those from another.  Completely removing a measure here or there that didn't work, and simply splicing the results together.  And so on.  I used to think that minor edits are probably okay, but at that point we're on the slippery slope.  If some edits are okay, why not others?  What is "minor"?  So okay, now I'm pretty much against any editing.  Give me the raw tapes.  Maybe that's part of what I liked about the original TSRTS recordings; that flaw in the keyboard solo reminded me that it's live and no one has messed with the recording.  Then I found out that that was edited to hell and back also.  So now I don't know what to think.  Live recordings aren't live.  Time, space, and life itself no longer have meaning.

I don't remember now what my point was going to be.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 22, 2020, 10:12:26 AM
Someone turned me on to The Garden Tapes a few years back, and I read a bunch of it, including a lot of the ridiculous editing done to The Song Remains the Same.

I would always prefer a live album to be an actual, unedited recording of a live performance.  I used to think that it must be because I myself am a musician who lives for live performance.  I want to hear what they played, every note both good and bad.  But obviously Jimmy Page and many others are also musicians, and there are those who want to hear the "ideal" live performance.  If you could hear the song played live, perfectly, capturing all the excitement of a live performance, the sponaneity, the one-time moments of musical brilliance, wouldn't you want to hear that?  Well, sure.  That's what Jimmy seems to be striving for by editing two notes out of one performance and replacing them with those from another.  Completely removing a measure here or there that didn't work, and simply splicing the results together.  And so on.  I used to think that minor edits are probably okay, but at that point we're on the slippery slope.  If some edits are okay, why not others?  What is "minor"?  So okay, now I'm pretty much against any editing.  Give me the raw tapes.  Maybe that's part of what I liked about the original TSRTS recordings; that flaw in the keyboard solo reminded me that it's live and no one has messed with the recording.  Then I found out that that was edited to hell and back also.  So now I don't know what to think.  Live recordings aren't live.  Time, space, and life itself no longer have meaning.

I don't remember now what my point was going to be.

I don't mean to hammer this point, but you're a musician, so maybe this will matter to you:   one of the things I love about Zeppelin was the chemistry, and particularly how certain songs breathed in time.   They were always in synch with each other, but the songs moved, breathed and had a sort of fluidity (to absolute time).  In my opinion, all that editing, taking out certain sections, bits and pieces, compromised that.  There are still moments (the original album, especially, is a much better album than it gets credit for) but I would love to have the full document of all three nights to enjoy, warts and all.   In many cases, it's the mistakes that make a performance, and it's important to know that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: emtee on April 22, 2020, 12:01:03 PM
I'll bet I'm the only Genesis fan alive with this top 4:

1) And The. There Were Three
2) Wind And Wuthering
3) Abacab
4) A Trick Of The Tail
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 22, 2020, 12:13:20 PM
I'll bet I'm the only Genesis fan alive with this top 4:

1) And The. There Were Three
2) Wind And Wuthering
3) Abacab
4) A Trick Of The Tail

I think we've talked about this before, but Wind And Wuthering and Abacab are my number one and two.  I'll have to think about three and four (probably the Lamb and Duke). 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on April 22, 2020, 12:17:33 PM
I'll bet I'm the only Genesis fan alive with this top 4:

1) And The. There Were Three
2) Wind And Wuthering
3) Abacab
4) A Trick Of The Tail

2-4 aren't terribly unheard of.   But you're literally the only Genesis fan I've ever known to put ATTWT as a #1 all time favorite. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 22, 2020, 12:36:11 PM
I'll bet I'm the only Genesis fan alive with this top 4:

1) And The. There Were Three
2) Wind And Wuthering
3) Abacab
4) A Trick Of The Tail

Youre not the only Genesis fan whos favorite period is the early Collins period at least. That middle box set from the 2007 reissues is my favorite of the three, even if I would probably still put Selling England and maybe Foxtrot in my top 5. Not totally sure what my top 5 would be, but I usually say Duke is my favorite.

I have recently (last 5 years or so) come to really enjoy And Then There Were Three. Listened to it the other day and its a great listen. Really love a couple of those tracks (Snowbound, Burning Rope, Deep in the Motherload, Follow You Follow Me). Have always been fond of Abacab. And Id probably have one of Trick or Wind and Wuthering in consideration for a top 5 spot.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DragonAttack on April 22, 2020, 01:39:57 PM
I'll bet I'm the only Genesis fan alive with this top 4:

1) And The. There Were Three
2) Wind And Wuthering
3) Abacab
4) A Trick Of The Tail

2-4 aren't terribly unheard of.   But you're literally the only Genesis fan I've ever known to put ATTWT as a #1 all time favorite.

Add me to the list.  Abrams Planeterium at Michigan State would do laser light shows to albums for many years, and their sound system was to die for.  This album was my first visit, and I was slightly 'mood enhanced' ;)  I do recall the 'stars' circling above, gradually building up speed, and then when the tempo changed, the stars would reverse direction.  The chairs didn't move, but some people actually fell off at those moments.

Purchased the vinyl the next day.

Duke, W&W, IT, and 'Selling England' are 2-5
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 22, 2020, 01:53:15 PM
All of this is surprising to some degree; I have yet to see a Genesis album poll that didn't have Selling... as either one or two.   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 22, 2020, 02:00:41 PM
Abrams Planeterium at Michigan State would do laser light shows to albums for many years, and their sound system was to die for.  This album was my first visit, and I was slightly 'mood enhanced' ;)  I do recall the 'stars' circling above, gradually building up speed, and then when the tempo changed, the stars would reverse direction.  The chairs didn't move, but some people actually fell off at those moments.

Purchased the vinyl the next day.

I went to a lot of the shows at Abrams, but I must have missed And Then There Were There.  Or maybe I did, but forgot.  Mood enhancement was always a factor in those days.  Anyway, that was my first Genesis album, and is still a fave.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Silent Man on April 24, 2020, 03:53:52 AM
I'll bet I'm the only Genesis fan alive with this top 4:

1) And The. There Were Three
2) Wind And Wuthering
3) Abacab
4) A Trick Of The Tail

I have a hard time with these rankings. One day I have a favorite, another day it has changed. That's why rankings will never work for me.

But one thing I agree about is that '..And Then There Were Three...' has gotten better and better with the years. And I especially enjoy Mike Rutherford's masterful playing. I call it discrete and elegant...even the 'pop' song 'Follow You Follow Me' gets inside me like never before. I'm not sure, but I think perhaps this is the first song where Mike introduced his signature 'tika-tok' playing style (sorry, can't describe it better, but I think you know what I mean). It might sound easy, but it's not.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on April 24, 2020, 05:04:07 AM
My ranking:

1. Selling England By The Pound
2. A Trick of The Tail
3. The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
4. Foxtrot
5. Duke

I'm a sucker for the Peter Gabriel period in particular. Selling England will always be #1 for me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 24, 2020, 08:51:08 AM
I'll bet I'm the only Genesis fan alive with this top 4:

1) And The. There Were Three
2) Wind And Wuthering
3) Abacab
4) A Trick Of The Tail

I have a hard time with these rankings. One day I have a favorite, another day it has changed. That's why rankings will never work for me.

But one thing I agree about is that '..And Then There Were Three...' has gotten better and better with the years. And I especially enjoy Mike Rutherford's masterful playing. I call it discrete and elegant...even the 'pop' song 'Follow You Follow Me' gets inside me like never before. I'm not sure, but I think perhaps this is the first song where Mike introduced his signature 'tika-tok' playing style (sorry, can't describe it better, but I think you know what I mean). It might sound easy, but it's not.

That's a good observation; whether you think it's No. 1 or not, I would think it's a less controversial statement to say that it's the "Mike Rutherford Guitar Album".    He's got moments on other records (Abacab, Genesis) but not as comprehensive.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 24, 2020, 08:58:13 AM
Hmmm. I guess I think of Duke as a stronger Rutherford guitar effort (he shows up quite prominently in the first track). He has moments on ATTWT for sure, but for a while I think the absence of a strong lead guitarist was what held that album back for me. Follow You Follow Me does have a really great guitar part though, and burning rope has always gotten me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 24, 2020, 09:05:24 AM
With ...and then there were three..., Mike had to step up.  He'd always played guitar in the band as well as bass, but this was the first album where he had to do both.  Also, as sole guitarist, he clearly wanted to show that he could fill the gap.  Maybe he's no Steve Hackett, but he takes some nice leads, and his sounds are very similar to Hackett's, and also to Anthony Phillips before him.  I like what he does here, as well as on the later albums.

What Genesis lost when they went three-piece was the acoustic side.  Those wonderful interludes with acoustic six- and 12-string guitars and Tony's piano.  And it's a bit confusing as well, because that was part of the Genesis sound before Hackett joined, so there was no real reason to lose it when he left.  Maybe it was a decision based more on the direction the band was going in at the time.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 24, 2020, 09:15:03 AM
With ...and then there were three..., Mike had to step up.  He'd always played guitar in the band as well as bass, but this was the first album where he had to do both.  Also, as sole guitarist, he clearly wanted to show that he could fill the gap.  Maybe he's no Steve Hackett, but he takes some nice leads, and his sounds are very similar to Hackett's, and also to Anthony Phillips before him.  I like what he does here, as well as on the later albums.

What Genesis lost when they went three-piece was the acoustic side.  Those wonderful interludes with acoustic six- and 12-string guitars and Tony's piano.  And it's a bit confusing as well, because that was part of the Genesis sound before Hackett joined, so there was no real reason to lose it when he left.  Maybe it was a decision based more on the direction the band was going in at the time.

I think you're right; it's the latter.  Between the increasing electronic presence of drums on the material, and the bigger venues they were playing, I think it just fell by the wayside.

The Musical Box, a popular Genesis "recreation", has a part* in their typical "Selling England By The Pound" setlist (the one they play most often) where "Steve", "Mike" and "Tony" are all playing acoustic guitar and watching that in a theater is just magical.    That's one of the few shows I go and just close my eyes and listen for about an hour and 45 minutes. 

* I can't remember if it's The Musical Box song, or Supper's Ready; I'm almost positive it's not The Cinema Show, though I'm not betting money on it.  All three songs feature Tony's guitar, and all three are in the set, so...
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: emtee on April 24, 2020, 09:36:57 AM
For me music has always been a conduit to memories. Some good, some awful. In the case of ATTWT, it was a first love situation and this album takes me there. The feelings and even, oddly enough, the smells. Her perfume is a direct tie to the album.

I just never connected with SEbtP or The Lamb in the same way, Although Fly On a Windsheild takes me somewhere every time.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on April 24, 2020, 10:24:58 AM
Their catalog is so vast and diverse, I don't know how anyone can rank their favorites. To me, when I listen to Invisible Touch, that's my favorite. When I listen to Trick of the Tail, that's my favorite. Foxtrot? Favorite. Shit, I even love Calling All Stations, although I guess I've never said it was my favorite, but there are times I feel like it gets close.

Basically, whatever I'm mood I'm in dictates what I listen to and love at that moment.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 24, 2020, 10:39:13 AM
Their catalog is so vast and diverse, I don't know how anyone can rank their favorites. To me, when I listen to Invisible Touch, that's my favorite. When I listen to Trick of the Tail, that's my favorite. Foxtrot? Favorite. Shit, I even love Calling All Stations, although I guess I've never said it was my favorite, but there are times I feel like it gets close.

Basically, whatever I'm mood I'm in dictates what I listen to and love at that moment.

Yeah, I generally shy away from rankings for this reason. There are some albums or songs by certain bands that have had such an obvious impact on me that I consider them favorites, but trying to be objective about even my own subjective preferences is a seemingly impossible task.

Its generally easier to identify the albums I dont care for (The Lamb and Trespass), or which ones I think of less fondly than others (We Cant Dance and Calling All Stations, which I still do like), than it is to say I definitively like Wind & Wuthering better than Abacab or Nursery Cryme.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Silent Man on April 24, 2020, 10:49:25 AM
Their catalog is so vast and diverse, I don't know how anyone can rank their favorites. To me, when I listen to Invisible Touch, that's my favorite. When I listen to Trick of the Tail, that's my favorite. Foxtrot? Favorite. Shit, I even love Calling All Stations, although I guess I've never said it was my favorite, but there are times I feel like it gets close.

Basically, whatever I'm mood I'm in dictates what I listen to and love at that moment.

I so much agree!

And Calling All Stations (what a dumb title) is a weird record. It's an example of a group losing their DNA when replacing a key member - in this case Phil Collins. They sound like another band, far from the Genesis I knew and loved. They got some excellent session drummers in it as well, but they can't catch the spirit of Genesis IMO. The singer tries to copy Peter Gabriel, but fails. What still makes me play it is Mike's guitar work and of course, Tony. When I heard it the first time, my immediate thought was that it sounded like one of Tony's solo efforts, which never did much for me, it was like he went from prog to pop, and not pop in the 'Genesis style', if it makes sense. Oh, whatever...
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 24, 2020, 10:59:36 AM
Their catalog is so vast and diverse, I don't know how anyone can rank their favorites. To me, when I listen to Invisible Touch, that's my favorite. When I listen to Trick of the Tail, that's my favorite. Foxtrot? Favorite. Shit, I even love Calling All Stations, although I guess I've never said it was my favorite, but there are times I feel like it gets close.

Basically, whatever I'm mood I'm in dictates what I listen to and love at that moment.

I so much agree!

And Calling All Stations (what a dumb title) is a weird record. It's an example of a group losing their DNA when replacing a key member - in this case Phil Collins. They sound like another band, far from the Genesis I knew and loved. They got some excellent session drummers in it as well, but they can't catch the spirit of Genesis IMO. The singer tries to copy Peter Gabriel, but fails. What still makes me play it is Mike's guitar work and of course, Tony. When I heard it the first time, my immediate thought was that it sounded like one of Tony's solo efforts, which never did much for me, it was like he went from prog to pop, and not pop in the 'Genesis style', if it makes sense. Oh, whatever...

There are some real high points on CAS: Uncertain Weather, The Dividing Line, There Must Be Some Other Way, One Mans Fool. I also like the title track and Congo just fine for what they are. I dont hate Shipwrecked or Not About Us even, though they dont seem like Genesis songs. It does seem like a new project though more than a continuation of Genesis if that makes sense. Like Tony Banks and Rutherfords solo/side projects mixed.

There are also several strong tracks that didnt make the album that would have really improved the final project, and they definitely missed an opportunity in picking Ray Wilson over David Longdon (Big Big Train) as the singer. I like Wilson to an extent, but Longdon would have given them a more charismatic voice who could pull off both the Collins and Gabriel material.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lupton on April 24, 2020, 11:14:31 AM
Their catalog is so vast and diverse, I don't know how anyone can rank their favorites. To me, when I listen to Invisible Touch, that's my favorite. When I listen to Trick of the Tail, that's my favorite. Foxtrot? Favorite. Shit, I even love Calling All Stations, although I guess I've never said it was my favorite, but there are times I feel like it gets close.

Basically, whatever I'm mood I'm in dictates what I listen to and love at that moment.

I so much agree!

And Calling All Stations (what a dumb title) is a weird record. It's an example of a group losing their DNA when replacing a key member - in this case Phil Collins. They sound like another band, far from the Genesis I knew and loved. They got some excellent session drummers in it as well, but they can't catch the spirit of Genesis IMO. The singer tries to copy Peter Gabriel, but fails. What still makes me play it is Mike's guitar work and of course, Tony. When I heard it the first time, my immediate thought was that it sounded like one of Tony's solo efforts, which never did much for me, it was like he went from prog to pop, and not pop in the 'Genesis style', if it makes sense. Oh, whatever...

Calling All Stations is not as bad a record as many people make out. I agree that Mike and Tony definitely shine on this. Problem is, like you say, the missing DNA. A lot of the songs sound like over-produced demos. Like they really needed more thoughtful arranging with solid beginnings, middles, and ends. Instead they just seem to loop through the ideas presented until the obligatory fade out. Makes it sound like they couldn't figure out how to properly end any of the songs. 'The Dividing Line' has an actual ending, and it's one of the better tunes on the album. FWIW I like it more as a whole than We Can't Dance, even though there's a couple of songs on that album that are better than anything on CAS. Though I do consider 'Uncertain Weather' to be a solid tune worthy of anything Genesis ever did (IMHO of course).

However, I disagree with the notion that Ray Wilson is merely copying Gabriel. There are certainly some spots when his voice becomes more gravelly which evokes Gabriel, but for the most part to my ears he brings his own unique voice to the table. Though I did have to listen to the album a handful of times to arrive at that conclusion; as my 1st impression was he was aping Gabriel.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on April 24, 2020, 11:16:59 AM
Their catalog is so vast and diverse, I don't know how anyone can rank their favorites. To me, when I listen to Invisible Touch, that's my favorite. When I listen to Trick of the Tail, that's my favorite. Foxtrot? Favorite. Shit, I even love Calling All Stations, although I guess I've never said it was my favorite, but there are times I feel like it gets close.

Basically, whatever I'm mood I'm in dictates what I listen to and love at that moment.

Yeah, I generally shy away from rankings for this reason. There are some albums or songs by certain bands that have had such an obvious impact on me that I consider them favorites, but trying to be objective about even my own subjective preferences is a seemingly impossible task.

Its generally easier to identify the albums I dont care for (The Lamb and Trespass), or which ones I think of less fondly than others (We Cant Dance and Calling All Stations, which I still do like), than it is to say I definitively like Wind & Wuthering better than Abacab or Nursery Cryme.

Yes, I agree. I can point to the ones I don't like either, Lamb being one of them, yet I saw the tribute band Musical Box perform 1/3 of their show with Lamb material and all of the sudden it clicked. So as my wife and I set out on a road trip we vowed to listen to the whole album. Halfway through we were pretty bored. We pulled out some live tracks and thought "This is what we were missing" and went back to the studio album and again got bored. Probably one of the weirdest albums ever made, and I listen to some weird stuff.

Their catalog is so vast and diverse, I don't know how anyone can rank their favorites. To me, when I listen to Invisible Touch, that's my favorite. When I listen to Trick of the Tail, that's my favorite. Foxtrot? Favorite. Shit, I even love Calling All Stations, although I guess I've never said it was my favorite, but there are times I feel like it gets close.

Basically, whatever I'm mood I'm in dictates what I listen to and love at that moment.

I so much agree!

And Calling All Stations (what a dumb title) is a weird record. It's an example of a group losing their DNA when replacing a key member - in this case Phil Collins.


That is an excellent way to put it and they have admitted as much. Phil was an excellent mediator even though he contributed the least musically for the majority of their career.

About this time Chester Thompson asked to become a full member and they turned him down. I often wonder what that would have looked like. He was eager to be a part of it and Ray Wilson was keen to sit back (as any young musician plucked for relative obscurity would have). I bet Chester could have played a somewhat important role in reining them in. Ah, the "what ifs" in life.

Also, there is a decent half-pro mix bootleg of their Poland show with Ray Wilson. It's pretty badass. I'm going to go on a limb here and say that Wilson actually does a better version of Carpet Crawlers than Collins or Gabriel. The rest he does a respectable job on too, although he can't match the other vocalist on any other songs.



Calling All Stations is not as bad a record as many people make out. I agree that Mike and Tony definitely shine on this. Problem is, like you say, the missing DNA. A lot of the songs sound like over-produced demos. Like they really needed more thoughtful arranging with solid beginnings, middles, and ends. Instead they just seem to loop through the ideas presented until the obligatory fade out. Makes it sound like they couldn't figure out how to properly end any of the songs.


Yes, the fade outs are the worst and very awkwardly placed!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lupton on April 24, 2020, 11:22:27 AM
Their catalog is so vast and diverse, I don't know how anyone can rank their favorites. To me, when I listen to Invisible Touch, that's my favorite. When I listen to Trick of the Tail, that's my favorite. Foxtrot? Favorite. Shit, I even love Calling All Stations, although I guess I've never said it was my favorite, but there are times I feel like it gets close.

Basically, whatever I'm mood I'm in dictates what I listen to and love at that moment.

I so much agree!

And Calling All Stations (what a dumb title) is a weird record. It's an example of a group losing their DNA when replacing a key member - in this case Phil Collins. They sound like another band, far from the Genesis I knew and loved. They got some excellent session drummers in it as well, but they can't catch the spirit of Genesis IMO. The singer tries to copy Peter Gabriel, but fails. What still makes me play it is Mike's guitar work and of course, Tony. When I heard it the first time, my immediate thought was that it sounded like one of Tony's solo efforts, which never did much for me, it was like he went from prog to pop, and not pop in the 'Genesis style', if it makes sense. Oh, whatever...

There are some real high points on CAS: Uncertain Weather, The Dividing Line, There Must Be Some Other Way, One Mans Fool. I also like the title track and Congo just fine for what they are. I dont hate Shipwrecked or Not About Us even, though they dont seem like Genesis songs. It does seem like a new project though more than a continuation of Genesis if that makes sense. Like Tony Banks and Rutherfords solo/side projects mixed.

There are also several strong tracks that didnt make the album that would have really improved the final project, and they definitely missed an opportunity in picking Ray Wilson over David Longdon (Big Big Train) as the singer. I like Wilson to an extent, but Longdon would have given them a more charismatic voice who could pull off both the Collins and Gabriel material.

Sorry. Missed your post. Probably posted while I was typing mine.

I'm not as much a fan of the b-sides as many who like this album seem to be. I mean...there's a lot of them! Like 8 or 9? I can only think of one which I really like and felt it should have been on the album. I think it was 'Run Out of Time'. There may have been another one. I'll have to go back and revisit them at some point.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 24, 2020, 11:44:40 AM

I'm not as much a fan of the b-sides as many who like this album seem to be. I mean...there's a lot of them! Like 8 or 9? I can only think of one which I really like and felt it should have been on the album. I think it was 'Run Out of Time'. There may have been another one. I'll have to go back and revisit them at some point.

Cheers!

The ones I like are the ones on the 2007 box set extra disc: Anything Now, Sign Your Life Away, and Run Out of Time.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on April 24, 2020, 12:19:30 PM
Those extra songs are hard as hell to find. I have the Congo single and those unreleased tracks don't do much for me. Shipwrecked and Not About Us singles are insanely expensive.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 24, 2020, 12:59:15 PM
Listening to this ordering of CAS right now:

1. Calling All Stations
2. Congo
3. Shipwrecked
4. Anything Now*
5. Not About Us
6. The Dividing Line
7. Uncertain Weather
8. Sign Your Life Away*
9. Run Out of Time*
10. There Must Be Some Other Way
11. One Mans Fool

I genuinely like all of these tracks, and I probably enjoy this collection of songs as much or more than We Cant Dance.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 24, 2020, 12:59:25 PM
The Musical Box, a popular Genesis "recreation", has a part* in their typical "Selling England By The Pound" setlist (the one they play most often) where "Steve", "Mike" and "Tony" are all playing acoustic guitar and watching that in a theater is just magical.    That's one of the few shows I go and just close my eyes and listen for about an hour and 45 minutes. 

* I can't remember if it's The Musical Box song, or Supper's Ready; I'm almost positive it's not The Cinema Show, though I'm not betting money on it.  All three songs feature Tony's guitar, and all three are in the set, so...

The opening section of Supper's Ready has Steve and Mike on 12-strings, and Tony on 6-string (I'm pretty sure).  It's one of the few times they had three acoustic guitars in a song.  I'm not sure about The Musical Box (the song).  It sounds to me like guitar and keyboards doubled.

The 7/8 jam in Cinema Show is/was always performed as a trio (no vocals or guitar, so Peter and Steve left the stage) and the intro has guitar and electric piano, so it's not The Cinema Show.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on April 24, 2020, 03:27:32 PM
Anyone have knowledge of what Rutherford is playing in this video?  The top (shorter) neck is pretty clearly a 12-string guitar, but the bottom neck is longer, which suggests a bass, but it seems to have six machine heads.  I did a bit of googling but couldn't find anything.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 24, 2020, 07:17:00 PM
Watching Three Sides Live online for like the 5th of 6th time. Probably like the CD more because there is more music but I forgot about the incidental vignettes sprinkled throughout so that was cool to watch too, but I wish there was a version without that when I just want the music.  They were totally on fire.  Great balance of old and new. (I keep playing Abacab over and over again!)

Those cuts drive me crazy.  This is one of my favorite videos because of the music, but the editing makes me want to hurt someone.  Nowadays, they'd probably include the interviews and other stuff as "bonus material" on the DVD or Blu-ray, but back in the VHS era, this was how they did it.  I bought the Blu-ray, hoping that there was some kind of option to just watch the concert footage, but nope.  At least you can skip to the next segment.

Didn't recall it being that bad, but it was a very long time since I saw it. I thought there was more music. Those performances are great though. Duke,  Abacab, and Three Sides Live are probably my favorite tours.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 24, 2020, 07:22:32 PM
Yep, all of that sounds pretty familiar, and I agree with the complaints regarding The Song Remains the Same.  I happen to like the original CD version, but there's an obvious audio flaw during the keyboard solo in "No Quarter".  I assumed that they ("they" probably meaning Jimmy Page) would fix that, but instead they just used a different performance from a different night.  Crap.  I really like that solo; I just wanted to hear it fixed.

My two favorite Genesis periods are 1976 (the four-piece era) and early 80's (Three Sides Live).  And those are the two era almost devoid of decent video releases. :(

I really don't mind the way The Song Remains The Same was done because it fit in with the mystique of the band so they could get away with it.  The Genesis stuff while cool just broke up the flow of the music. With Zeppelin I really don't mind that as much and Genesis is probably the more consistent live band anyway.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 24, 2020, 07:26:52 PM
I'm not suggesting you read all of this (though I did when I ripped my Zeppelin to hard drive; I now have three versions to listen to!), but just the fact that it exists is fascinating to me. 

The Garden Tapes
www.thegardentapes.co.uk

Page clearly took a lot of time and effort to assemble all four versions of TSRTS (as well as the MSG material that made it onto the Led Zeppelin DVD) but with all that, it's STILL maddening that so many instances of seemingly "poor choices" exist.  I have to believe there's a reason for what was done - and we just don't know what it is - but some of those songs were utterly butchered if you believe this.   Black Dog, Heartbreaker, Dazed And Confused, Whole Lotta Love and Moby Dick are the obvious examples.

I remember reading that way back when. Probably goes to state of mind. What else could it be? Always thought he knew what he was doing with the Zep legacy. It makes me wonder.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 24, 2020, 07:29:12 PM
Someone turned me on to The Garden Tapes a few years back, and I read a bunch of it, including a lot of the ridiculous editing done to The Song Remains the Same.

I would always prefer a live album to be an actual, unedited recording of a live performance.  I used to think that it must be because I myself am a musician who lives for live performance.  I want to hear what they played, every note both good and bad.  But obviously Jimmy Page and many others are also musicians, and there are those who want to hear the "ideal" live performance.  If you could hear the song played live, perfectly, capturing all the excitement of a live performance, the sponaneity, the one-time moments of musical brilliance, wouldn't you want to hear that?  Well, sure.  That's what Jimmy seems to be striving for by editing two notes out of one performance and replacing them with those from another.  Completely removing a measure here or there that didn't work, and simply splicing the results together.  And so on.  I used to think that minor edits are probably okay, but at that point we're on the slippery slope.  If some edits are okay, why not others?  What is "minor"?  So okay, now I'm pretty much against any editing.  Give me the raw tapes.  Maybe that's part of what I liked about the original TSRTS recordings; that flaw in the keyboard solo reminded me that it's live and no one has messed with the recording.  Then I found out that that was edited to hell and back also.  So now I don't know what to think.  Live recordings aren't live.  Time, space, and life itself no longer have meaning.

I don't remember now what my point was going to be.

Maybe he was trying to play mad scientist with the tapes....
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 24, 2020, 07:33:13 PM
Someone turned me on to The Garden Tapes a few years back, and I read a bunch of it, including a lot of the ridiculous editing done to The Song Remains the Same.

I would always prefer a live album to be an actual, unedited recording of a live performance.  I used to think that it must be because I myself am a musician who lives for live performance.  I want to hear what they played, every note both good and bad.  But obviously Jimmy Page and many others are also musicians, and there are those who want to hear the "ideal" live performance.  If you could hear the song played live, perfectly, capturing all the excitement of a live performance, the sponaneity, the one-time moments of musical brilliance, wouldn't you want to hear that?  Well, sure.  That's what Jimmy seems to be striving for by editing two notes out of one performance and replacing them with those from another.  Completely removing a measure here or there that didn't work, and simply splicing the results together.  And so on.  I used to think that minor edits are probably okay, but at that point we're on the slippery slope.  If some edits are okay, why not others?  What is "minor"?  So okay, now I'm pretty much against any editing.  Give me the raw tapes.  Maybe that's part of what I liked about the original TSRTS recordings; that flaw in the keyboard solo reminded me that it's live and no one has messed with the recording.  Then I found out that that was edited to hell and back also.  So now I don't know what to think.  Live recordings aren't live.  Time, space, and life itself no longer have meaning.

I don't remember now what my point was going to be.

I don't mean to hammer this point, but you're a musician, so maybe this will matter to you:   one of the things I love about Zeppelin was the chemistry, and particularly how certain songs breathed in time.   They were always in synch with each other, but the songs moved, breathed and had a sort of fluidity (to absolute time).  In my opinion, all that editing, taking out certain sections, bits and pieces, compromised that.  There are still moments (the original album, especially, is a much better album than it gets credit for) but I would love to have the full document of all three nights to enjoy, warts and all.   In many cases, it's the mistakes that make a performance, and it's important to know that.

Even in the best of times they were maddeningly inconsistent which I suppose is why I don't have too many of their live recordings.

They were just as likely to be amazing as they were to be very much off.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 24, 2020, 07:35:25 PM
I'll bet I'm the only Genesis fan alive with this top 4:

1) And The. There Were Three
2) Wind And Wuthering
3) Abacab
4) A Trick Of The Tail

2-4 aren't terribly unheard of.   But you're literally the only Genesis fan I've ever known to put ATTWT as a #1 all time favorite.


Probably rank it higher than anything with Gabriel, but for me that's not saying very much.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 24, 2020, 07:38:54 PM
Someone turned me on to The Garden Tapes a few years back, and I read a bunch of it, including a lot of the ridiculous editing done to The Song Remains the Same.

I would always prefer a live album to be an actual, unedited recording of a live performance.  I used to think that it must be because I myself am a musician who lives for live performance.  I want to hear what they played, every note both good and bad.  But obviously Jimmy Page and many others are also musicians, and there are those who want to hear the "ideal" live performance.  If you could hear the song played live, perfectly, capturing all the excitement of a live performance, the sponaneity, the one-time moments of musical brilliance, wouldn't you want to hear that?  Well, sure.  That's what Jimmy seems to be striving for by editing two notes out of one performance and replacing them with those from another.  Completely removing a measure here or there that didn't work, and simply splicing the results together.  And so on.  I used to think that minor edits are probably okay, but at that point we're on the slippery slope.  If some edits are okay, why not others?  What is "minor"?  So okay, now I'm pretty much against any editing.  Give me the raw tapes.  Maybe that's part of what I liked about the original TSRTS recordings; that flaw in the keyboard solo reminded me that it's live and no one has messed with the recording.  Then I found out that that was edited to hell and back also.  So now I don't know what to think.  Live recordings aren't live.  Time, space, and life itself no longer have meaning.

I don't remember now what my point was going to be.

Maybe he was trying to play mad scientist with the tapes....

It really sounds like it.  I think there's editing, and then there's obsessing, and Jimmy dove into the deep end.  After tweaking it a bit, he found other stuff he could fix.  So he fixed those things, listened again, found some more things.  He knew he could fix all these things, but he didn't stop to think if he should.

(https://imgur.com/AwbRLLA.jpg)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 24, 2020, 07:45:50 PM
Their catalog is so vast and diverse, I don't know how anyone can rank their favorites. To me, when I listen to Invisible Touch, that's my favorite. When I listen to Trick of the Tail, that's my favorite. Foxtrot? Favorite. Shit, I even love Calling All Stations, although I guess I've never said it was my favorite, but there are times I feel like it gets close.

Basically, whatever I'm mood I'm in dictates what I listen to and love at that moment.

It's might be easier for me to rank when it comes to Genesis (I like Calling All Stations as well.), but what you describe is how I feel about Rush. It's a totally useless exercise for me to rank them.  Ranking things really doesn't do a lot. As you said, you just enjoy them.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on April 24, 2020, 08:24:58 PM
It doesn't have anything as awesome as The Cinema Show or Firth of Fifth, but I honestly think that A Trick of the Tail is their best and most consistent album at this point in time.  None of the songs would be in my Genesis top 5, but probably 5-6 of them would be in that 6-20 range. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 24, 2020, 08:50:37 PM
It doesn't have anything as awesome as The Cinema Show or Firth of Fifth, but I honestly think that A Trick of the Tail is their best and most consistent album at this point in time.  None of the songs would be in my Genesis top 5, but probably 5-6 of them would be in that 6-20 range.

I tend to think of Los Endos as one of those signature Genesis moments up there with stuff like Cinema Show or Firth of Fifth. Its one of my favorite instrumental tracks (by anyone).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on April 25, 2020, 06:20:52 AM
Their catalog is so vast and diverse, I don't know how anyone can rank their favorites. To me, when I listen to Invisible Touch, that's my favorite. When I listen to Trick of the Tail, that's my favorite. Foxtrot? Favorite. Shit, I even love Calling All Stations, although I guess I've never said it was my favorite, but there are times I feel like it gets close.

Basically, whatever I'm mood I'm in dictates what I listen to and love at that moment.

I so much agree!

And Calling All Stations (what a dumb title) is a weird record. It's an example of a group losing their DNA when replacing a key member - in this case Phil Collins. They sound like another band, far from the Genesis I knew and loved. They got some excellent session drummers in it as well, but they can't catch the spirit of Genesis IMO. The singer tries to copy Peter Gabriel, but fails. What still makes me play it is Mike's guitar work and of course, Tony. When I heard it the first time, my immediate thought was that it sounded like one of Tony's solo efforts, which never did much for me, it was like he went from prog to pop, and not pop in the 'Genesis style', if it makes sense. Oh, whatever...

There are some real high points on CAS: Uncertain Weather, The Dividing Line, There Must Be Some Other Way, One Mans Fool. I also like the title track and Congo just fine for what they are. I dont hate Shipwrecked or Not About Us even, though they dont seem like Genesis songs. It does seem like a new project though more than a continuation of Genesis if that makes sense. Like Tony Banks and Rutherfords solo/side projects mixed.

There are also several strong tracks that didnt make the album that would have really improved the final project, and they definitely missed an opportunity in picking Ray Wilson over David Longdon (Big Big Train) as the singer. I like Wilson to an extent, but Longdon would have given them a more charismatic voice who could pull off both the Collins and Gabriel material.

Thaaank yoouu. Ray Wilson is a good singer, but David Longdon would have taken Calling All Stations to a whole new level. Like he took Big Big Train to a new level.

By the way, does anyone know why Chester Thompson didn't just replace Phil on the album? And on the tour, too?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on April 25, 2020, 07:28:43 AM
Their catalog is so vast and diverse, I don't know how anyone can rank their favorites. To me, when I listen to Invisible Touch, that's my favorite. When I listen to Trick of the Tail, that's my favorite. Foxtrot? Favorite. Shit, I even love Calling All Stations, although I guess I've never said it was my favorite, but there are times I feel like it gets close.

Basically, whatever I'm mood I'm in dictates what I listen to and love at that moment.

I so much agree!

And Calling All Stations (what a dumb title) is a weird record. It's an example of a group losing their DNA when replacing a key member - in this case Phil Collins. They sound like another band, far from the Genesis I knew and loved. They got some excellent session drummers in it as well, but they can't catch the spirit of Genesis IMO. The singer tries to copy Peter Gabriel, but fails. What still makes me play it is Mike's guitar work and of course, Tony. When I heard it the first time, my immediate thought was that it sounded like one of Tony's solo efforts, which never did much for me, it was like he went from prog to pop, and not pop in the 'Genesis style', if it makes sense. Oh, whatever...

There are some real high points on CAS: Uncertain Weather, The Dividing Line, There Must Be Some Other Way, One Mans Fool. I also like the title track and Congo just fine for what they are. I dont hate Shipwrecked or Not About Us even, though they dont seem like Genesis songs. It does seem like a new project though more than a continuation of Genesis if that makes sense. Like Tony Banks and Rutherfords solo/side projects mixed.

There are also several strong tracks that didnt make the album that would have really improved the final project, and they definitely missed an opportunity in picking Ray Wilson over David Longdon (Big Big Train) as the singer. I like Wilson to an extent, but Longdon would have given them a more charismatic voice who could pull off both the Collins and Gabriel material.

Thaaank yoouu. Ray Wilson is a good singer, but David Longdon would have taken Calling All Stations to a whole new level. Like he took Big Big Train to a new level.

By the way, does anyone know why Chester Thompson didn't just replace Phil on the album? And on the tour, too?

Yes. Chester approached the band about becoming a full time member and being part of the writing. They said they weren't interested. He said he was no longer interested in drumming for them then.

Not that he would have been the secret ingredient but I think his inclusion could have given them a slight additional degree of success. I love Tony and Mike but they lack charisma. The average fan is also probably unaware that they wrote the majority of material with phil that saw them reach such big success.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 25, 2020, 09:17:58 AM
Their catalog is so vast and diverse, I don't know how anyone can rank their favorites. To me, when I listen to Invisible Touch, that's my favorite. When I listen to Trick of the Tail, that's my favorite. Foxtrot? Favorite. Shit, I even love Calling All Stations, although I guess I've never said it was my favorite, but there are times I feel like it gets close.

Basically, whatever I'm mood I'm in dictates what I listen to and love at that moment.

I so much agree!

And Calling All Stations (what a dumb title) is a weird record. It's an example of a group losing their DNA when replacing a key member - in this case Phil Collins. They sound like another band, far from the Genesis I knew and loved. They got some excellent session drummers in it as well, but they can't catch the spirit of Genesis IMO. The singer tries to copy Peter Gabriel, but fails. What still makes me play it is Mike's guitar work and of course, Tony. When I heard it the first time, my immediate thought was that it sounded like one of Tony's solo efforts, which never did much for me, it was like he went from prog to pop, and not pop in the 'Genesis style', if it makes sense. Oh, whatever...

There are some real high points on CAS: Uncertain Weather, The Dividing Line, There Must Be Some Other Way, One Mans Fool. I also like the title track and Congo just fine for what they are. I dont hate Shipwrecked or Not About Us even, though they dont seem like Genesis songs. It does seem like a new project though more than a continuation of Genesis if that makes sense. Like Tony Banks and Rutherfords solo/side projects mixed.

There are also several strong tracks that didnt make the album that would have really improved the final project, and they definitely missed an opportunity in picking Ray Wilson over David Longdon (Big Big Train) as the singer. I like Wilson to an extent, but Longdon would have given them a more charismatic voice who could pull off both the Collins and Gabriel material.

Thaaank yoouu. Ray Wilson is a good singer, but David Longdon would have taken Calling All Stations to a whole new level. Like he took Big Big Train to a new level.

By the way, does anyone know why Chester Thompson didn't just replace Phil on the album? And on the tour, too?

In an alternate universe somewhere, Genesis picked NDV and David Longdon to be the full time drummer and singer and Genesis ends up being a part of the late 90s/2000s prog revival. It would have taken some real vision because neither were established artists at that point though.

Im also ultimately happy with the way things turned out. That would have seriously altered the histories of Spocks Beard and Big Big Train. In the end, those two found the musical home where they belonged with Big Big Train.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on April 25, 2020, 11:29:10 AM
It doesn't have anything as awesome as The Cinema Show or Firth of Fifth, but I honestly think that A Trick of the Tail is their best and most consistent album at this point in time.  None of the songs would be in my Genesis top 5, but probably 5-6 of them would be in that 6-20 range.

I tend to think of Los Endos as one of those signature Genesis moments up there with stuff like Cinema Show or Firth of Fifth. Its one of my favorite instrumental tracks (by anyone).

Los Endos is great, yet still probably only my 5th favorite song from that record!  :eek :eek

I would rank them in this order:

1. Entangled (that ending is so sublime)
2. Mad Man Moon
3. Ripples
4. Robbery, Assault and Battery
5. Los Endos
6. Dance on a Volcano
7. Squonk
8. A Trick of the Tail
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 25, 2020, 11:46:42 AM
1980 Lyceum Ballroom May 7, 1980

I'm not into a lot of bootleg recordings, but this is one of the few Genesis bootlegs I have that I really like.  It's a soundboard recording, and one of the original sources for the Three Sides Live album.  The great thing is that it includes the entire "Duke" suite.  This is the only tour where they played the entire six-part suite in order.  I re-did my Three Side Live playlist to incorporate "Duke" in its entirety, and it's pretty sweet.

If you're a fan of the Duke album (and hey, who isn't?) then this is a boot that you want, whether you realize it or not.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 25, 2020, 12:10:15 PM
It doesn't have anything as awesome as The Cinema Show or Firth of Fifth, but I honestly think that A Trick of the Tail is their best and most consistent album at this point in time.  None of the songs would be in my Genesis top 5, but probably 5-6 of them would be in that 6-20 range.

I tend to think of Los Endos as one of those signature Genesis moments up there with stuff like Cinema Show or Firth of Fifth. Its one of my favorite instrumental tracks (by anyone).

Los Endos is great, yet still probably only my 5th favorite song from that record!  :eek :eek

I would rank them in this order:

1. Entangled (that ending is so sublime)
2. Mad Man Moon
3. Ripples
4. Robbery, Assault and Battery
5. Los Endos
6. Dance on a Volcano
7. Squonk
8. A Trick of the Tail

Id probably put Squonk as my second favorite. Love that song. Id also have the title track above Robbery, Assault and Battery and maybe even Dance on a Volcano, which I like but for some reason dont love. I agree about Entangled though. Thats a gorgeous song.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 25, 2020, 08:40:25 PM
In the 80's, I was in a band that opened with Squonk for a while, because we were all progheads playing in a bar band and we liked the song.  Opening song from Seconds Out seemed like a good choice, right?  The other two Genesis songs we did were Abacab and Turn It On Again just because we could.  We played some Alan Parsons Project, a bunch of The Police, some crazy shit.  Problem is, we were playing backwoods bars in Northern Michigan who had no idea what to make of it.  They tolerated it, but came alive when we played Born To Be Wild.  Okay.

We had fun, though.  We were practicing during the day in a bar in Manistee, and the bartender asked us if we knew any Emerson Lake & Palmer, and me, the bassist, and the drummer had just figured out the beginning of Tarkus like a week before for the hell of it, so we threw it at him.  Blew his mind.  He said he'd never, ever expected to hear Tarkus in a bar before, let alone this one.  We made his day, his whole weekend.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 25, 2020, 10:21:41 PM
In the 80's, I was in a band that opened with Squonk for a while, because we were all progheads playing in a bar band and we liked the song.  Opening song from Seconds Out seemed like a good choice, right?  The other two Genesis songs we did were Abacab and Turn It On Again just because we could.  We played some Alan Parsons Project, a bunch of The Police, some crazy shit.  Problem is, we were playing backwoods bars in Northern Michigan who had no idea what to make of it.  They tolerated it, but came alive when we played Born To Be Wild.  Okay.

We had fun, though.  We were practicing during the day in a bar in Manistee, and the bartender asked us if we knew any Emerson Lake & Palmer, and me, the bassist, and the drummer had just figured out the beginning of Tarkus like a week before for the hell of it, so we threw it at him.  Blew his mind.  He said he'd never, ever expected to hear Tarkus in a bar before, let alone this one.  We made his day, his whole weekend.

Thats some good stuff there. Squonk is something that seems like it was meant to be played live. The version on Seconds Out is great (and Im not usually one for live recordings).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 25, 2020, 10:23:38 PM
So Steve Hackett has also been doing a series of YouTube videos recently talking about Genesis songs. Here he is talking about one of my favorites, Can Utility and the Coastliners. Pretty fun story about it in here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r5nJNcMjuvo
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 26, 2020, 10:30:46 AM
1980 Lyceum Ballroom May 7, 1980

I'm not into a lot of bootleg recordings, but this is one of the few Genesis bootlegs I have that I really like.  It's a soundboard recording, and one of the original sources for the Three Sides Live album.  The great thing is that it includes the entire "Duke" suite.  This is the only tour where they played the entire six-part suite in order.  I re-did my Three Side Live playlist to incorporate "Duke" in its entirety, and it's pretty sweet.

If you're a fan of the Duke album (and hey, who isn't?) then this is a boot that you want, whether you realize it or not.

I think this is the only Genesis bootleg I have. I guess I've had it for almost 20 years now. (The one I have fuses film/video with the audio and I think it might be the entire show.) I love that show and really that 1980-82 era. Of course 1976 to 84 isn't band either. The sets were great from that era also. Right in my Genesis wheelhouse.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on April 26, 2020, 10:56:59 AM
In the 80's, I was in a band that opened with Squonk for a while, because we were all progheads playing in a bar band and we liked the song.  Opening song from Seconds Out seemed like a good choice, right?  The other two Genesis songs we did were Abacab and Turn It On Again just because we could.  We played some Alan Parsons Project, a bunch of The Police, some crazy shit.  Problem is, we were playing backwoods bars in Northern Michigan who had no idea what to make of it.  They tolerated it, but came alive when we played Born To Be Wild.  Okay.

We had fun, though.  We were practicing during the day in a bar in Manistee, and the bartender asked us if we knew any Emerson Lake & Palmer, and me, the bassist, and the drummer had just figured out the beginning of Tarkus like a week before for the hell of it, so we threw it at him.  Blew his mind.  He said he'd never, ever expected to hear Tarkus in a bar before, let alone this one.  We made his day, his whole weekend.

I didn't become a huge fan of Squonk until I saw Spock's Beard play it during their encore at NEARFest '99. Still think I might like the Spock's Beard version more, but my love for the song likely comes from there. Like the version on Seconds Out more than the studio version.

Probably the most awesome experience I ever had in a bar was when Pinnacle decided to cover all of Marillion's Misplaced Childhood. Of course, there was advance notice of this so some people knew it was coming, but that didn't make it any less special.

I've heard Tarkus played in a bar before a few times, but it was Carl Palmer's Band that played it. That was really cool too.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 26, 2020, 12:43:59 PM
Hackett on Entangled and his own hypnotization:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1kCpQuQzqf8
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 27, 2020, 08:19:30 AM
It doesn't have anything as awesome as The Cinema Show or Firth of Fifth, but I honestly think that A Trick of the Tail is their best and most consistent album at this point in time.  None of the songs would be in my Genesis top 5, but probably 5-6 of them would be in that 6-20 range.

I tend to think of Los Endos as one of those signature Genesis moments up there with stuff like Cinema Show or Firth of Fifth. Its one of my favorite instrumental tracks (by anyone).

Los Endos is great, yet still probably only my 5th favorite song from that record!  :eek :eek

I would rank them in this order:

1. Entangled (that ending is so sublime)
2. Mad Man Moon
3. Ripples
4. Robbery, Assault and Battery
5. Los Endos
6. Dance on a Volcano
7. Squonk
8. A Trick of the Tail

I'm a sucker for lists, so:
1. Ripples
2. Dance On A Volcano
3. Los Endos
4. Entangled
5. Squonk
6. Mad Man Moon
7. Robbery, Assault and Battery
8. A Trick of the Tail

The reality is, 1 through 3 are virtually interchangeable, and depend on the day, as are 6 though 8.   This is a strong album; I don't usually just "decide" I want to hear "R, A & B", but I don't skip it.   It's also a beautiful album; the pastoral feel of several of the tracks is pervasive, and even if each individual song doesn't "nail it" (like Ripples does) it's very much a mood album for me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on April 27, 2020, 08:23:53 AM

I'm a sucker for lists, so:
1. Ripples
2. Dance On A Volcano
3. Los Endos
4. Entangled
5. Squonk
6. Mad Man Moon
7. Robbery, Assault and Battery
8. A Trick of the Tail

The reality is, 1 through 3 are virtually interchangeable, and depend on the day, as are 6 though 8.   This is a strong album; I don't usually just "decide" I want to hear "R, A & B", but I don't skip it.   It's also a beautiful album; the pastoral feel of several of the tracks is pervasive, and even if each individual song doesn't "nail it" (like Ripples does) it's very much a mood album for me.

Robbery, Assault and Battery is such a favorite for me largely because the latter half of the instrumental section is one of my favorite Tony Banks moments ever, which is a bold statement for me since he has so many great moments.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 27, 2020, 08:24:36 AM
1980 Lyceum Ballroom May 7, 1980

I'm not into a lot of bootleg recordings, but this is one of the few Genesis bootlegs I have that I really like.  It's a soundboard recording, and one of the original sources for the Three Sides Live album.  The great thing is that it includes the entire "Duke" suite.  This is the only tour where they played the entire six-part suite in order.  I re-did my Three Side Live playlist to incorporate "Duke" in its entirety, and it's pretty sweet.

If you're a fan of the Duke album (and hey, who isn't?) then this is a boot that you want, whether you realize it or not.

Duke on my iPod is in that order:  The Duke Suite as side one, and the remaining songs as side two.  For me, it flows better this way (only "Turn It On Again" is difficult to absorb, though that's not a knock on the song, because I LOVE it, just that I can't really fit the words in). 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 27, 2020, 10:10:09 AM
I tried that for a while.  According to Tony, they originally wanted to arrange the album that way, with the suite on one side and the other songs on the other side, but shied away from it at the last minute because they didn't want to invite the inevitable comparisons to Supper's Ready, their only other side-long epic.  So they ended up with the arrangement they did, with the suite opening and closing the album, Turn It On Again in the middle, and the rest of the songs arranged so as to form a loose narrative if you overthink it enough, thus making Duke their first and only true concept album.  But even Tony admitted that that was kinduv artificial anyway.

For me, it worked, but I eventually went back to the original run order, simply because it's what I was used to, and I like hearing Duke's End as the album closer.  But since it's an iPod, I had a playlist with just the Duke suite for a while.  I don't know, I nuked it at some point, mostly because I just never bothered with it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 27, 2020, 12:16:48 PM
I tried that for a while.  According to Tony, they originally wanted to arrange the album that way, with the suite on one side and the other songs on the other side, but shied away from it at the last minute because they didn't want to invite the inevitable comparisons to Supper's Ready, their only other side-long epic.  So they ended up with the arrangement they did, with the suite opening and closing the album, Turn It On Again in the middle, and the rest of the songs arranged so as to form a loose narrative if you overthink it enough, thus making Duke their first and only true concept album.  But even Tony admitted that that was kinduv artificial anyway.

For me, it worked, but I eventually went back to the original run order, simply because it's what I was used to, and I like hearing Duke's End as the album closer.  But since it's an iPod, I had a playlist with just the Duke suite for a while.  I don't know, I nuked it at some point, mostly because I just never bothered with it.

You nuked the Duke?  I saw that in a movie once...  :) :)

Similar thing to the Dodo Suite; I stitched those together too for a while; that was much less satisfying, though. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on April 27, 2020, 01:11:07 PM
Maybe it's because I am used to the running order, but I tried the Duke suite a few times and while I won't say it didn't work, it never came off to me as a selection of songs that just had to go together. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on April 27, 2020, 01:27:12 PM
It doesn't have anything as awesome as The Cinema Show or Firth of Fifth, but I honestly think that A Trick of the Tail is their best and most consistent album at this point in time.  None of the songs would be in my Genesis top 5, but probably 5-6 of them would be in that 6-20 range.

I tend to think of Los Endos as one of those signature Genesis moments up there with stuff like Cinema Show or Firth of Fifth. Its one of my favorite instrumental tracks (by anyone).

Los Endos is great, yet still probably only my 5th favorite song from that record!  :eek :eek

I would rank them in this order:

1. Entangled (that ending is so sublime)
2. Mad Man Moon
3. Ripples
4. Robbery, Assault and Battery
5. Los Endos
6. Dance on a Volcano
7. Squonk
8. A Trick of the Tail

I'm a sucker for lists, so:
1. Ripples
2. Dance On A Volcano
3. Los Endos
4. Entangled
5. Squonk
6. Mad Man Moon
7. Robbery, Assault and Battery
8. A Trick of the Tail

The reality is, 1 through 3 are virtually interchangeable, and depend on the day, as are 6 though 8.   This is a strong album; I don't usually just "decide" I want to hear "R, A & B", but I don't skip it.   It's also a beautiful album; the pastoral feel of several of the tracks is pervasive, and even if each individual song doesn't "nail it" (like Ripples does) it's very much a mood album for me.

ATOTT is easily my favorite Genesis album, with every song having something exceptional about it.  I think I'd rank the songs thusly:

1. Dance On A Volcano
2. Robbery, Assault and Battery
3. A Trick of the Tail
4. Entangled
5. Squonk
6. Ripples
7. Los Endos
8. Mad Man Moon

There could be a lot of movement here in the 3-6 area on any given day, but the top 2 are locked, and MMM and Los Endos sit at the bottom only because I think everything else is better.  The instrumental section in RA&B is one of the best things ever.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 27, 2020, 02:18:40 PM
Maybe it's because I am used to the running order, but I tried the Duke suite a few times and while I won't say it didn't work, it never came off to me as a selection of songs that just had to go together. 

Exactly.  There are recurring melodic and chordal motifs, but they stand well enough alone.  The first three parts segue, as do the last two, and I never split up songs that segue, but Turn It On Again is the odd one out.  For one thing, the studio version fades out.  That happened so rarely with early Genesis that I noticed it right away, and wondered how exactly it was supposed to fit into the suite when you have a clear stopping point.  But things stop after Guide Vocal, too.

I guess it's knowing that the songs were originally meant to go together a certain way that makes recreating that running order something to try.  As with the Dodo suite from Abacab, it's kinda cool, but hardly required.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: XeRocks81 on April 27, 2020, 03:13:08 PM
I guess theres an ending to Turn it on Again that they did live,  but it always seemed to me like something they threw together for the tour and just stuck with it for years.   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 27, 2020, 04:57:58 PM
Genesis always baffled me in that respect.  When the original studio version of a song fades out, a lot of bands will just end it by slamming on the last chord when they play it live.  Or maybe repeat the chorus or other section that isn't being repeated, and then slam on the last chord.  Genesis came up with some pretty cool endings for songs, and Turn It On Again has one of my favorites.  Not the Phil scat-singing (although that got better over time), but the chords after the intro reprise.  Abacab does the same thing (actually the same chords, transposed to C rather than B) after a pretty cool buildup.  The live version of The Cinema Show from Seconds Out has that awesome buildup and syncopated ending.  Even Squonk has an actual coda, making the original ending sound like they faded it out just as it was going somewhere.

Anyway, if you can come up with a great ending like that, why not just end the song that way on the album in the first place?  You already know that if you're gonna play the song live, that you'll have to come up with an ending.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 27, 2020, 04:59:02 PM
And then of course, there is the 'fade out' to Supper's Ready that they DID in fact play live.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 27, 2020, 05:00:15 PM
And then of course, there is the 'fade out' to Supper's Ready that they DID in fact play live.

Yes and no.  It decrescendos for a while, then ends very quietly.  It does resolve.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on April 30, 2020, 09:56:13 AM
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/genesis-solo-albums-ranked/

Don't know if this has been posted before but it's a pretty good overview of all of the solo album/side projects of Genesis members. I'm not a big fan of ranking but it is interesting to hear other peoples perspectives. Also, this encouraged me to seek out more Anthony Phillips stuff. Only heard his debut and it didn't do much for me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 30, 2020, 10:58:26 AM
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/genesis-solo-albums-ranked/

Don't know if this has been posted before but it's a pretty good overview of all of the solo album/side projects of Genesis members. I'm not a big fan of ranking but it is interesting to hear other peoples perspectives. Also, this encouraged me to seek out more Anthony Phillips stuff. Only heard his debut and it didn't do much for me.

Cant get all the way through the list without the page crashing. But I actually think as PC solo albums go, Dance Into the Light and Testify are a little under appreciated. I prefer them both to Both Sides at least I think. Dance had some nice Beatles-ish stuff and was a little bit more of a drum album than Both Sides. Testify was at least a good sounding album that I generally enjoy when I hear it. I dont revisit either all that often. Going to do that now while Im thinking about it.

Edit: Lorenzo is a wonderful track, even if it does sound like the inspiration for the Tarzan soundtrack.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on May 01, 2020, 11:39:33 AM
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/genesis-solo-albums-ranked/

Don't know if this has been posted before but it's a pretty good overview of all of the solo album/side projects of Genesis members. I'm not a big fan of ranking but it is interesting to hear other peoples perspectives. Also, this encouraged me to seek out more Anthony Phillips stuff. Only heard his debut and it didn't do much for me.

No Marscape and nothing from Brand X?  ???  :\ :tdwn
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 01, 2020, 01:07:26 PM
I would categorize those as side projects that they happened to be involved in, and not solo albums.  Of course, within the article, that distinction is moot since they didn't include any of Tony's neo-classical stuff or movie soundtracks, which have a lot of great music.  The scope was limited to what they thought would be most relevant to most readers.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on May 02, 2020, 07:04:37 AM
I would categorize those as side projects that they happened to be involved in, and not solo albums.  Of course, within the article, that distinction is moot since they didn't include any of Tony's neo-classical stuff or movie soundtracks, which have a lot of great music.  The scope was limited to what they thought would be most relevant to most readers.

I didn't go through it all: they didn't include Tony's classical albums??? This list has just disqualified itself.

Tony's last album was beautiful. It shows that he is still very capable of composing his signature harmony progressions. The ones that only he can compose.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: XeRocks81 on May 02, 2020, 07:29:48 AM
I would categorize those as side projects that they happened to be involved in, and not solo albums.  Of course, within the article, that distinction is moot since they didn't include any of Tony's neo-classical stuff or movie soundtracks, which have a lot of great music.  The scope was limited to what they thought would be most relevant to most readers.

I didn't go through it all: they didn't include Tony's classical albums??? This list has just disqualified itself.

Tony's last album was beautiful. It shows that he is still very capable of composing his signature harmony progressions. The ones that only he can compose.

Tony really was the secret sauce wasn't he?  Even in more straight ahead stuff like Follow You Follow me,  just paying attention to all the little changes he does on the organ is rewarding in and of itself.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 02, 2020, 11:46:41 AM
Thanks for the heads up on this! I thoroughly enjoyed Three Sides Live tonight. I look forward to watching the Mama tour next week. I don't think I ever saw that film and I'm bummed I didn't see that tour live back into in the day at one of the 3 nights at the Spectrum in Philly.

Watching Three Sides Live online for like the 5th of 6th time. Probably like the CD more because there is more music but I forgot about the incidental vignettes sprinkled throughout so that was cool to watch too, but I wish there was a version without that when I just want the music.  They were totally on fire.  Great balance of old and new. (I keep playing Abacab over and over again!)

I still may need to get the DVD.  I'll watch the Mama Tour too and then I'm out. MAYBE I'll hang around for the Invisible Touch Tour.

The IT performance is pretty darn good.   That's the tour I actually saw live (in an arena), but that's also the phase where Phil has the mullet, so there's that.  (I always loved that almost certainly unintentional metaphor:  business in the front, i.e. stage front, when he was singing, and party in the rear, i.e. when he went back and let loose on drums.)

I caught Abacab on You Tube from this video. (I may or may not watch the entire thing later this week.) That was one of the best versions of that song I've ever heard.  REALLY love Mike's performance on this too.  I think it should have gone on longer, but that was really fantastic.

Abacab got left off of The Way We Walk set (which is my live cut off) and the rest of it isn't too impressive, but it sure has its moments.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 02, 2020, 11:53:26 AM
With ...and then there were three..., Mike had to step up.  He'd always played guitar in the band as well as bass, but this was the first album where he had to do both.  Also, as sole guitarist, he clearly wanted to show that he could fill the gap.  Maybe he's no Steve Hackett, but he takes some nice leads, and his sounds are very similar to Hackett's, and also to Anthony Phillips before him.  I like what he does here, as well as on the later albums.

What Genesis lost when they went three-piece was the acoustic side.  Those wonderful interludes with acoustic six- and 12-string guitars and Tony's piano.  And it's a bit confusing as well, because that was part of the Genesis sound before Hackett joined, so there was no real reason to lose it when he left.  Maybe it was a decision based more on the direction the band was going in at the time.

Good points.
 
I'm not sure they had a direction with this album. I really don't like Down and Out as a lead track. To me it doesn't make much of a statement.  For me the album really doesn't get going until Ballad Of Big.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 02, 2020, 12:13:35 PM
I love Down and Out.  This was my first Genesis album, and that opening got me good, the way it stumbles into the 5/4 via a single bar of 6/4 that makes it sound like the record skipped.  Guitar leads and synth leads, Phil pounding those skins, the intro and outro, I love pretty much everything about the song.  I thought it was a hell of a statement.  "So there's only three of us now, but check this out."
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on May 03, 2020, 02:22:30 AM
I love Down and Out.  This was my first Genesis album, and that opening got me good, the way it stumbles into the 5/4 via a single bar of 6/4 that makes it sound like the record skipped.  Guitar leads and synth leads, Phil pounding those skins, the intro and outro, I love pretty much everything about the song.  I thought it was a hell of a statement.  "So there's only three of us now, but check this out."

Down & Out is awesome. Phil is absolutely on phire on this track!
Also, I always thought of it as an answer to Dance On A Volcano: "better start doing it right" vs "show me someone doing it better".
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: XeRocks81 on May 03, 2020, 06:28:54 AM
I love Down and Out.  This was my first Genesis album, and that opening got me good, the way it stumbles into the 5/4 via a single bar of 6/4 that makes it sound like the record skipped.  Guitar leads and synth leads, Phil pounding those skins, the intro and outro, I love pretty much everything about the song.  I thought it was a hell of a statement.  "So there's only three of us now, but check this out."

isnt it that song where they tried to play it live a couple of times and got all confused  because they couldnt agree where the downbeat of  1  was? 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Silent Man on May 03, 2020, 07:08:41 AM
I love Down and Out.  This was my first Genesis album, and that opening got me good, the way it stumbles into the 5/4 via a single bar of 6/4 that makes it sound like the record skipped.  Guitar leads and synth leads, Phil pounding those skins, the intro and outro, I love pretty much everything about the song.  I thought it was a hell of a statement.  "So there's only three of us now, but check this out."

This. Down and Out is phenomenal. The tempo shift is well thought out, and if anyone could get it done this way, it was Genesis. This song still sends thrills down my spine every time I hear it..
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 03, 2020, 07:23:20 AM
I love Down and Out.  This was my first Genesis album, and that opening got me good, the way it stumbles into the 5/4 via a single bar of 6/4 that makes it sound like the record skipped.  Guitar leads and synth leads, Phil pounding those skins, the intro and outro, I love pretty much everything about the song.  I thought it was a hell of a statement.  "So there's only three of us now, but check this out."

Down & Out is awesome. Phil is absolutely on phire on this track!
Also, I always thought of it as an answer to Dance On A Volcano: "better start doing it right" vs "show me someone doing it better".

I've long thought of Down and Out as "Squonk in 5/4".  Both songs kinda stomp along in Dm, in their respective time signatures.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on May 04, 2020, 01:35:53 AM
I love Down and Out.  This was my first Genesis album, and that opening got me good, the way it stumbles into the 5/4 via a single bar of 6/4 that makes it sound like the record skipped.  Guitar leads and synth leads, Phil pounding those skins, the intro and outro, I love pretty much everything about the song.  I thought it was a hell of a statement.  "So there's only three of us now, but check this out."

Down & Out is awesome. Phil is absolutely on phire on this track!
Also, I always thought of it as an answer to Dance On A Volcano: "better start doing it right" vs "show me someone doing it better".

I've long thought of Down and Out as "Squonk in 5/4".  Both songs kinda stomp along in Dm, in their respective time signatures.

Ha, that's interesting! Never thought of it that way, because imo Down & Out is much more aggressive and straight forward than Squonk.

Talking about And Then There Were Three, I also think Undertow is absolutely beautiful. Afterglow always gets mentioned (and played live), but in my book, Undertow is just as great.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 07, 2020, 04:15:11 PM
I love Down and Out.  This was my first Genesis album, and that opening got me good, the way it stumbles into the 5/4 via a single bar of 6/4 that makes it sound like the record skipped.  Guitar leads and synth leads, Phil pounding those skins, the intro and outro, I love pretty much everything about the song.  I thought it was a hell of a statement.  "So there's only three of us now, but check this out."

Duke was my first Genesis album and that may be why it doesn't jump out at me.

I do that that the "skipping" part though. I think the way it's mixed might be my problem too.  Most of my listening is on the original CD. Never got the 1994 remaster, but I do think the most recent mix sounds better but being sandwiched between Seconds Out and Duke doesn't do it any favors on my shelf.

Perhaps I've overlooked it. What do you like about Undertow?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 07, 2020, 04:16:37 PM
I love Down and Out.  This was my first Genesis album, and that opening got me good, the way it stumbles into the 5/4 via a single bar of 6/4 that makes it sound like the record skipped.  Guitar leads and synth leads, Phil pounding those skins, the intro and outro, I love pretty much everything about the song.  I thought it was a hell of a statement.  "So there's only three of us now, but check this out."

isnt it that song where they tried to play it live a couple of times and got all confused  because they couldnt agree where the downbeat of 1 was?

Is there a live version of this song? I might enjoy it more.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on May 07, 2020, 04:20:59 PM
I love Down and Out.  This was my first Genesis album, and that opening got me good, the way it stumbles into the 5/4 via a single bar of 6/4 that makes it sound like the record skipped.  Guitar leads and synth leads, Phil pounding those skins, the intro and outro, I love pretty much everything about the song.  I thought it was a hell of a statement.  "So there's only three of us now, but check this out."

Down & Out is awesome. Phil is absolutely on phire on this track!
Also, I always thought of it as an answer to Dance On A Volcano: "better start doing it right" vs "show me someone doing it better".

I've long thought of Down and Out as "Squonk in 5/4".  Both songs kinda stomp along in Dm, in their respective time signatures.

Down and Out is far and away my favorite from that album.  I've never thought that it stomped along.  Phil drives that song hard, like, to the point where it feels dangerously close to coming off the rails.  I think that's one of the reasons I like it so much.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on May 07, 2020, 04:51:23 PM
I love Down and Out.  This was my first Genesis album, and that opening got me good, the way it stumbles into the 5/4 via a single bar of 6/4 that makes it sound like the record skipped.  Guitar leads and synth leads, Phil pounding those skins, the intro and outro, I love pretty much everything about the song.  I thought it was a hell of a statement.  "So there's only three of us now, but check this out."

isnt it that song where they tried to play it live a couple of times and got all confused  because they couldnt agree where the downbeat of 1 was?

Is there a live version of this song? I might enjoy it more.

It was played early on on the tour, but according to the legend, Chester could never quite get his arms around that time signature, and it was dropped about three months into the tour.  I don't know of any boots of those early shows. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on May 07, 2020, 05:01:06 PM
My favorite song off of that album is Snowbound.

What a weird song.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on May 07, 2020, 05:05:34 PM
That's one of my favorite things about Genesis; it sounds like a fairly melancholy love song, right?  It's whack though; it's about a man who wears a snowman outfit to hide from people but while inside, becomes paranoid and finds he cannot get out.  Or so Collins and Rutherford have said in interviews (they're Rutherford's lyrics) (http://"Views From the Three Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford radio interview").
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 07, 2020, 05:19:26 PM
I love Down and Out.  This was my first Genesis album, and that opening got me good, the way it stumbles into the 5/4 via a single bar of 6/4 that makes it sound like the record skipped.  Guitar leads and synth leads, Phil pounding those skins, the intro and outro, I love pretty much everything about the song.  I thought it was a hell of a statement.  "So there's only three of us now, but check this out."

Duke was my first Genesis album and that may be why it doesn't jump out at me.

I do that that the "skipping" part though. I think the way it's mixed might be my problem too.  Most of my listening is on the original CD. Never got the 1994 remaster, but I do think the most recent mix sounds better but being sandwiched between Seconds Out and Duke doesn't do it any favors on my shelf.

Perhaps I've overlooked it. What do you like about Undertow?

I just think it's a beautiful song.  In the early days, Genesis could get mellow without it being all silly and sappy.  Chill stuff like "Undertow", "Snowbound", and "Say It's Alright, Joe" I think are just amazing at capturing a mood and exploring it.

Duke is incredible, my favorite Genesis album.  I can see how ATTWT pales a bit in comparison.  And that's why I always try to listen to a band's catalog in order.  The progression made from one album to the next, as the times and the music biz changed, maybe some personnel changes along the way, all of that matters to me.  In some ways, ATTWT was the debut album of a new band.  I don't mark it down because they later learned to work the formula better.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on May 07, 2020, 05:49:39 PM
I love Down and Out.  This was my first Genesis album, and that opening got me good, the way it stumbles into the 5/4 via a single bar of 6/4 that makes it sound like the record skipped.  Guitar leads and synth leads, Phil pounding those skins, the intro and outro, I love pretty much everything about the song.  I thought it was a hell of a statement.  "So there's only three of us now, but check this out."

isnt it that song where they tried to play it live a couple of times and got all confused  because they couldnt agree where the downbeat of 1 was?

Is there a live version of this song? I might enjoy it more.

It was played early on on the tour, but according to the legend, Chester could never quite get his arms around that time signature, and it was dropped about three months into the tour.  I don't know of any boots of those early shows.

That seems spurious.  Genesis had plenty of material in 5/4 (the predominant time signature in the song, with parts being in good old 4/4), and I doubt it would phase Chester much (although there is some odd syncopation).


Here's a live version:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ieW-bXMwM
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 07, 2020, 06:13:04 PM
Down and Out is far and away my favorite from that album.  I've never thought that it stomped along.

That's just the word I think of when I think of those big Dm chords:
BOMP! BOMP! BOMP! BOMP! BOMP!
It's-good-to-be-here-how've-you-been? Check-my-bags-boy-where's-my-room?

Such a killer way to bust into a song.  I love it.  I doesn't feel to me like they're nearly losing control, to me it's more like total control.

BOMP! BOMP! BOMP! BOMP! BOMP!

Synth solo comes at you out of nowhere.  First of several tasty leads by Mike Rutherford on guitar.  Then back into the ethereal stuff that opened the song.  Perfection.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 09, 2020, 12:18:52 PM
I love Down and Out.  This was my first Genesis album, and that opening got me good, the way it stumbles into the 5/4 via a single bar of 6/4 that makes it sound like the record skipped.  Guitar leads and synth leads, Phil pounding those skins, the intro and outro, I love pretty much everything about the song.  I thought it was a hell of a statement.  "So there's only three of us now, but check this out."

isnt it that song where they tried to play it live a couple of times and got all confused  because they couldnt agree where the downbeat of 1 was?

Is there a live version of this song? I might enjoy it more.

It was played early on on the tour, but according to the legend, Chester could never quite get his arms around that time signature, and it was dropped about three months into the tour.  I don't know of any boots of those early shows.

That seems spurious.  Genesis had plenty of material in 5/4 (the predominant time signature in the song, with parts being in good old 4/4), and I doubt it would phase Chester much (although there is some odd syncopation).


Here's a live version:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ieW-bXMwM

In my very limited experience with live Genesis during this period, that performance seemed tentative. Maybe they weren't comfortable playing it? 

Anyway, I'm going to get listen to the most recent mix of this a bit more and see what happens. I always liked the drumming on it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Trav86 on May 10, 2020, 04:16:05 PM
Am I the only one who loves ...And Then There Were Three?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on May 10, 2020, 04:22:46 PM
Am I the only one who loves ...And Then There Were Three?

You are not. We literally just had a whole discussion about this album in the last 40 posts or so  :lol
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Trav86 on May 10, 2020, 05:36:51 PM
Am I the only one who loves ...And Then There Were Three?

You are not. We literally just had a whole discussion about this album in the last 40 posts or so  :lol

I just jumped in. Thanks, Ill go back and read it!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DragonAttack on May 28, 2020, 03:19:34 PM
In the 80's, I was in a band that opened with Squonk for a while, because we were all progheads playing in a bar band and we liked the song.  Opening song from Seconds Out seemed like a good choice, right?  The other two Genesis songs we did were Abacab and Turn It On Again just because we could.  We played some Alan Parsons Project, a bunch of The Police, some crazy shit.  Problem is, we were playing backwoods bars in Northern Michigan who had no idea what to make of it.  They tolerated it, but came alive when we played Born To Be Wild.  Okay.

We had fun, though.  We were practicing during the day in a bar in Manistee, and the bartender asked us if we knew any Emerson Lake & Palmer, and me, the bassist, and the drummer had just figured out the beginning of Tarkus like a week before for the hell of it, so we threw it at him.  Blew his mind.  He said he'd never, ever expected to hear Tarkus in a bar before, let alone this one.  We made his day, his whole weekend.

Ever bump into a band called 'Einstein'?  They played the 'west coast' at times, the Grand Rapids area mostly, and some times up near Mackinac.  At festivals, they opened for Mitch Ryder and Rare Earth.  I got to be onstage a few times when they would do 'Abacab', 'Turn It On', and 'Afterglow'.  'Lamb' was all of their favorite album. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on May 28, 2020, 03:46:17 PM
I can't say that 'Einstein' sounds familiar, other than the obvious reference to the famous scientist, but we didn't actually run into many other bands back then.  Typically, everyone was off on their own gigs, so the only time you'd even see another band is if you were at a multi-band thing, or you weren't gigging that night and went and checked someone out.  Basically, if we weren't gigging, we didn't have money, so going out wasn't really an option. :lol

We did end up in Grand Rapids a few times, mostly at the Coral Gables.  I seem to think there was more than one, although I may be confusing that with the Kalamazoo one.  There was one we called the "Space Gables", as the interior decor was all modern and spacey-looking.  We also hit places like Benton Harbor, Sandy Point, and other places on the coast.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on May 28, 2020, 05:18:41 PM
It occurs to me that some people here might have interest in this. If you are the type to collect books about bands and need another Genesis book.

https://vimeo.com/415194237?fbclid=IwAR0Oqg4hTTilkE6G15Wx5FgPPhKEHoSuiG4WNa3gOJT8KI55SEDe3QDGqtM

Can order here:
https://burningshed.com/mario-giammetti_genesis-1967-to-1975_book

Curious to know if anyone gets/has this, and whether it adds anything interesting to other books/documentaries, etc. about Genesis. I have the Chapter and Verse book and theres a lot of stuff in the re-issue box sets so not sure I need another book but it looks interesting. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on July 21, 2020, 06:33:53 PM
Since Im currently obsessing over prog bass players, listening now to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (song), and man does Rutherford have the most snarly and aggressive bass line going on under there.

Another great one now: The Fountain of Salmacis. Some great contrast between the softer groove during the verse and the more aggressive playing during the chorus and instrumental section.

Underrated Rutherford moment: A Trick of the Tale (song). This one sounds a lot like something Pete Trewavas might have channeled in places.

One of Rutherfords strongest efforts of the trio era: Driving the Last Spike. Lots of space for him to fill on this track that takes its time building up as it moved through different sections and tempos.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on July 21, 2020, 09:26:55 PM
Great coincidence!  I was just listening to And Then There Were Three earlier and thinking about how much Mike was all over the bass there, as well as taking up lead guitar duties.  He was never a really gifted lead guitarist, but he was tasty, so I tend to focus on that on the later albums and temporarily forgot what a great bassist he is.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on July 21, 2020, 10:19:43 PM
Great coincidence!  I was just listening to And Then There Were Three earlier and thinking about how much Mike was all over the bass there, as well as taking up lead guitar duties.  He was never a really gifted lead guitarist, but he was tasty, so I tend to focus on that on the later albums and temporarily forgot what a great bassist he is.

I didnt get to anything off ATTWT earlier, but The Lady Lies has to be way up there in terms of the top Rutherford bass tracks, especially the choruses and middle section!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on July 21, 2020, 10:58:01 PM
Theres also a number of great Rutherford parts that are more of a soul/R&B type feel like Misunderstanding, Please Dont Ask, or You Might Recall. One of my very favorite Rutherford parts is from No Reply at All. That video in particular is fun to watch because it gives a good view of him going to town at several points. All videos should just be the band sitting around jamming in one room IMO.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on July 22, 2020, 11:58:00 AM
Theres also a number of great Rutherford parts that are more of a soul/R&B type feel like Misunderstanding, Please Dont Ask, or You Might Recall. One of my very favorite Rutherford parts is from No Reply at All. That video in particular is fun to watch because it gives a good view of him going to town at several points. All videos should just be the band sitting around jamming in one room IMO.

That No Reply at All video was one of the things that made me think the bass would be a really cool instrument to learn!  His line and tone right before and during the "I get the feeling you're trying to tell me" section are so great!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on July 22, 2020, 12:21:31 PM
Music moves me in various ways... the lyrics inspire, the music is of a tempo and volume that invigorates... but with some bands the SOUNDS are warm and soothing.  That is Genesis to me, and there are three main components to that: I love the heft and thickness of Phil's drums, I love that sound of the electric piano that Tony has - think "Turn It On Again" or "Cul-de-sac" or "Heathaze"; and I love the sound of Mike's bass - think "Duke's Travel's/Duke's End".   

I've said this before, but the Medley section of "In The Cage" is my favorite piece of recorded music, and Mike plays a role in that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on July 22, 2020, 01:12:45 PM
Theres also a number of great Rutherford parts that are more of a soul/R&B type feel like Misunderstanding, Please Dont Ask, or You Might Recall. One of my very favorite Rutherford parts is from No Reply at All. That video in particular is fun to watch because it gives a good view of him going to town at several points. All videos should just be the band sitting around jamming in one room IMO.

That No Reply at All video was one of the things that made me think the bass would be a really cool instrument to learn!  His line and tone right before and during the "I get the feeling you're trying to tell me" section are so great!

That part is so great!

Music moves me in various ways... the lyrics inspire, the music is of a tempo and volume that invigorates... but with some bands the SOUNDS are warm and soothing.  That is Genesis to me, and there are three main components to that: I love the heft and thickness of Phil's drums, I love that sound of the electric piano that Tony has - think "Turn It On Again" or "Cul-de-sac" or "Heathaze"; and I love the sound of Mike's bass - think "Duke's Travel's/Duke's End".   

I've said this before, but the Medley section of "In The Cage" is my favorite piece of recorded music, and Mike plays a role in that.

I know what you mean. I was listening to Duke last night actually and thinking how odd it was that this particular music moves me as much as it does. But those sounds in themselves are so unique and meaningful to me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on July 24, 2020, 06:20:44 PM
Great coincidence!  I was just listening to And Then There Were Three earlier and thinking about how much Mike was all over the bass there, as well as taking up lead guitar duties.  He was never a really gifted lead guitarist, but he was tasty, so I tend to focus on that on the later albums and temporarily forgot what a great bassist he is.

I was always surprised by his bass and guitar on that album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on July 24, 2020, 06:22:29 PM
Theres also a number of great Rutherford parts that are more of a soul/R&B type feel like Misunderstanding, Please Dont Ask, or You Might Recall. One of my very favorite Rutherford parts is from No Reply at All. That video in particular is fun to watch because it gives a good view of him going to town at several points. All videos should just be the band sitting around jamming in one room IMO.

That No Reply at All video was one of the things that made me think the bass would be a really cool instrument to learn!  His line and tone right before and during the "I get the feeling you're trying to tell me" section are so great!

I really love his tone on that one.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Silent Man on July 25, 2020, 08:55:15 AM
Since Im currently obsessing over prog bass players, listening now to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (song), and man does Rutherford have the most snarly and aggressive bass line going on under there.

Another great one now: The Fountain of Salmacis. Some great contrast between the softer groove during the verse and the more aggressive playing during the chorus and instrumental section.

Underrated Rutherford moment: A Trick of the Tale (song). This one sounds a lot like something Pete Trewavas might have channeled in places.

One of Rutherfords strongest efforts of the trio era: Driving the Last Spike. Lots of space for him to fill on this track that takes its time building up as it moved through different sections and tempos.

You're absolutely right, MR spread those marvellous basslines all over the place. But at the time of The Lamb, Genesis was still a 100% prog band IMO. That means, if you asked the average listener about if he noticed those basslines, he would probably answer: 'What bass?' And I really miss these days, where he still used that sound on the bass and used his creative ideas in the way he did. Another example would be, maybe long time forgotten, 'Inside and Out' from the EP 'Spot the Pigeon':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyeUizLp1rk

Again if you asked the average Joe about the incredible fast bassruns at 5:20, he would probably answer that he didn't listen to that part, because there were 'too many nodes' or that he found the song 'just boring'...

That song is just a prime example how unique Genesis was, how they were all committed to their ideas about how a song should be performed, especially these 'crazy parts' where all of them went berserk - but still followed each other like one unit.

Another example could be 'One for the Vine' out of 'Wind and Wuthering' - a wonderful composed song with a lot of sections put together, but you get the feeling that this just has to be like that, the song fits 100% together like it is. And again, how many notice the deep and well controlled bass during the quiet beginning, and how well structured it is? I once played in a band where I played the song for the other guitarist, and asked him how he thought about the bass. He said he didn't hear it, and the song was 'utter crap'...

Then the band changed towards their more 'pop oriented' style, and the 'crazy' pieces seemed to to be put to the background, more or less. But if you followed the band from their early days, it's easy to recognize their playing habits, even though they are more like 'under the surface'.

A completely different thing is Mike's other band, 'Mike + Mechanics'. Appearently, his idea was to create a more mainstream oriented band, which I have found rather boring. No crazy parts, and I didn't like his choice of singers. It was like they didn't really fit in, something about the same as with Tony's solo efforts. An exception was 'Smallcreep's Day', his first solo album (not labeled as a Mechanics album). That one had a very special mood and some interesting work, also as a guitarist.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Silent Man on July 25, 2020, 09:09:59 AM
Ha...I'm not the only one who think 'Smallcreep's Day' is marvellous. Look at the comments on YT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lg6FYXVFdI
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on July 25, 2020, 09:21:30 AM
Since Im currently obsessing over prog bass players, listening now to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (song), and man does Rutherford have the most snarly and aggressive bass line going on under there.

Another great one now: The Fountain of Salmacis. Some great contrast between the softer groove during the verse and the more aggressive playing during the chorus and instrumental section.

Underrated Rutherford moment: A Trick of the Tale (song). This one sounds a lot like something Pete Trewavas might have channeled in places.

One of Rutherfords strongest efforts of the trio era: Driving the Last Spike. Lots of space for him to fill on this track that takes its time building up as it moved through different sections and tempos.

You're absolutely right, MR spread those marvellous basslines all over the place. But at the time of The Lamb, Genesis was still a 100% prog band IMO. That means, if you asked the average listener about if he noticed those basslines, he would probably answer: 'What bass?' And I really miss these days, where he still used that sound on the bass and used his creative ideas in the way he did. Another example would be, maybe long time forgotten, 'Inside and Out' from the EP 'Spot the Pigeon':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyeUizLp1rk

Again if you asked the average Joe about the incredible fast bassruns at 5:20, he would probably answer that he didn't listen to that part, because there were 'too many nodes' or that he found the song 'just boring'...

That song is just a prime example how unique Genesis was, how they were all committed to their ideas about how a song should be performed, especially these 'crazy parts' where all of them went berserk - but still followed each other like one unit.

Another example could be 'One for the Vine' out of 'Wind and Wuthering' - a wonderful composed song with a lot of sections put together, but you get the feeling that this just has to be like that, the song fits 100% together like it is. And again, how many notice the deep and well controlled bass during the quiet beginning, and how well structured it is? I once played in a band where I played the song for the other guitarist, and asked him how he thought about the bass. He said he didn't hear it, and the song was 'utter crap'...

Then the band changed towards their more 'pop oriented' style, and the 'crazy' pieces seemed to to be put to the background, more or less. But if you followed the band from their early days, it's easy to recognize their playing habits, even though they are more like 'under the surface'.

A completely different thing is Mike's other band, 'Mike + Mechanics'. Appearently, his idea was to create a more mainstream oriented band, which I have found rather boring. No crazy parts, and I didn't like his choice of singers. It was like they didn't really fit in, something about the same as with Tony's solo efforts. An exception was 'Smallcreep's Day', his first solo album (not labeled as a Mechanics album). That one had a very special mood and some interesting work, also as a guitarist.

I do think Rutherfords style of bass playing is pretty unusual in the broader rock world. Not that there arent lots of great, creative bass players throughout rock, but the idea of being sort of aggressively melodic and not just rounding out chords and keeping the rhythm is probably lost on a lot of rock fans.

With Mike + The Mechanics and even later Genesis (not altogether of course), I do wonder if Rutherford just decided from a commercial/airplay standpoint that underplaying would be better received by the broader listening public and gave up on more complex bass lines? M+M was clearly engineered for radio success. Yet Ive wondered why later in life after that style was no longer popular why he hasnt felt the need to stretch himself out again playing wise. Not that Ive heard a lot of later say Mike + The Mechanics, but what I have heard has been pretty vanilla adult contemporary stuff.

I will say I do really like the Living Years album. Its not totally just a pop fest, though it is all pretty mainstream sounding (for that time). His playing is pretty tame on that one though.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 25, 2020, 10:20:14 AM
I agree about Mike + The Mechanics. I wanted so bad to like them since I'm a huge fan of Rutherford's work in Genesis. I would still see them live in a heartbeat. They usually do Land of Confusion so that alone would be worth it.

Smallcreep's Day though, man....an absolute masterpiece if you ask me. Odd that Acting Very Strange was his followup which I like about as much as his other side projects.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Silent Man on July 25, 2020, 10:54:23 AM
I agree about Mike + The Mechanics. I wanted so bad to like them since I'm a huge fan of Rutherford's work in Genesis. I would still see them live in a heartbeat. They usually do Land of Confusion so that alone would be worth it.

Smallcreep's Day though, man....an absolute masterpiece if you ask me. Odd that Acting Very Strange was his followup which I like about as much as his other side projects.

I have Acting Very Strange on vinyl, think I'll play it again one of these days. But what I remember is that (unfortunately) he did all the singing himself. And he really doesn't have a voice. I had huge expectations after Smallcreep, and I must admit that Acting... was a bit of a letdown...
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on July 25, 2020, 11:40:11 AM
Ha...I'm not the only one who think 'Smallcreep's Day' is marvellous. Look at the comments on YT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lg6FYXVFdI

I still need to track down a copy of this. Have heard good things about it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lupton on July 25, 2020, 12:49:55 PM
Just want to say that I'm very happy to see many posts of people praising Mike Rutherford's bass work.  That is all.  :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 25, 2020, 01:23:23 PM
Ha...I'm not the only one who think 'Smallcreep's Day' is marvellous. Look at the comments on YT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lg6FYXVFdI

I still need to track down a copy of this. Have heard good things about it.

Good luck. It is going for 30 to 50 bucks on CD. Much cheaper on vinyl. I watched the listings like a hawk for a few months and got a copy for 20 bucks.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on July 25, 2020, 02:40:51 PM
I still intend to check out Smallcreep's Day someday.  I've known about it for many, many years.  I have Acting Very Strange on vinyl and a few Mike + The Mechanics albums on CD, and they're all good to pretty good, occassionally great.  But I've still never gotten around to Smallcreep's Day.

But I still intend to check it out someday.

Also, hell yeah, Mike is a great bassist! ♫♫
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Silent Man on July 25, 2020, 03:16:08 PM
I still intend to check out Smallcreep's Day someday.  I've known about it for many, many years.  I have Acting Very Strange on vinyl and a few Mike + The Mechanics albums on CD, and they're all good to pretty good, occassionally great.  But I've still never gotten around to Smallcreep's Day.

But I still intend to check it out someday.

Also, hell yeah, Mike is a great bassist! ♫♫

Why not check ot out on the YT link I posted earlier? The whole album is there, together with some words from the original singer, Noel McCalla.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on July 25, 2020, 07:19:27 PM
Even a YouTube link, I'd want to specifically set aside some time to listen.  I want to give it my proper attention.  Don't worry, it'll happen.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 26, 2020, 12:10:29 AM
I still intend to check out Smallcreep's Day someday.  I've known about it for many, many years.  I have Acting Very Strange on vinyl and a few Mike + The Mechanics albums on CD, and they're all good to pretty good, occassionally great.  But I've still never gotten around to Smallcreep's Day.

But I still intend to check it out someday.

Also, hell yeah, Mike is a great bassist! ♫♫

Why not check ot out on the YT link I posted earlier? The whole album is there, together with some words from the original singer, Noel McCalla.

Noel's voice is beyond amazing. Picked a few albums he does vocals on including his solo band and there's some good stuff there.

If he performed anything from the album live, I would consider flying to England for it, barring covid restrictions of course
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Silent Man on July 27, 2020, 04:28:22 AM

I just listened to Smallcreep again - and what a genious album it is. It has a sort of melancholic mood, built on the sad life of a threadmill existance. The mood and atmosphere is kept throughout the album - together with Mike, Noel has a big influence on this, but also Anthony Phillips' keyboards has a strong impact. It sort of makes me think of my youth when sitting on a rainy day, looking out of the window without anything to do and wondering what the hell the world is going to be...this music is so good that it makes you think about memories, lost relationships etc...not necessary in a bad way, just like things has happened, and they are never coming back. That sort of thing.

Then I looked it up on Wiki, and there's quite a story there. At the time of its release, the critics gave it a big thumbs down - 2 out of 5 stars or such. 'Rutherford is not able to write at least one memorable song'. LOL. Same when Duke came out, I remember the reviews from then, where they described Phil's drums as 'clattering' and Mike's basslines as 'overdone' or just 'too much'.

Can't help getting a bit angry about ignorant fools like these. Maybe they should stick with writing about Bon Jovi, Britney Spears or the likes..
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on July 27, 2020, 06:55:21 AM
I'm listening now, finally, for the first time.  Wow!  This is really good.  I didn't realize that Anthony Phillips played keyboards as well.  He was the original guitarist for Genesis, of course.

In the comments, someone mentions that Mike is actively blocking the re-release of this album (on CD, presumably).  Does anyone know any more about that?  Is it because Mike didn't really feel like his solo albums were very good?  That's supposedly why he formed Mike + The Mechanics; because he felt that he did his best work in collaboration with others.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on July 27, 2020, 09:48:31 AM

I just listened to Smallcreep again - and what a genious album it is. It has a sort of melancholic mood, built on the sad life of a threadmill existance. The mood and atmosphere is kept throughout the album - together with Mike, Noel has a big influence on this, but also Anthony Phillips' keyboards has a strong impact. It sort of makes me think of my youth when sitting on a rainy day, looking out of the window without anything to do and wondering what the hell the world is going to be...this music is so good that it makes you think about memories, lost relationships etc...not necessary in a bad way, just like things has happened, and they are never coming back. That sort of thing.

Then I looked it up on Wiki, and there's quite a story there. At the time of its release, the critics gave it a big thumbs down - 2 out of 5 stars or such. 'Rutherford is not able to write at least one memorable song'. LOL. Same when Duke came out, I remember the reviews from then, where they described Phil's drums as 'clattering' and Mike's basslines as 'overdone' or just 'too much'.

Can't help getting a bit angry about ignorant fools like these. Maybe they should stick with writing about Bon Jovi, Britney Spears or the likes..

As a fan of this music - Duke in particular - I kind of think we're the ignorant fools not the other way around.   It IS too much, I just like it that way.   Most people don't.

I do think Rutherfords style of bass playing is pretty unusual in the broader rock world. Not that there arent lots of great, creative bass players throughout rock, but the idea of being sort of aggressively melodic and not just rounding out chords and keeping the rhythm is probably lost on a lot of rock fans.

With Mike + The Mechanics and even later Genesis (not altogether of course), I do wonder if Rutherford just decided from a commercial/airplay standpoint that underplaying would be better received by the broader listening public and gave up on more complex bass lines? M+M was clearly engineered for radio success. Yet Ive wondered why later in life after that style was no longer popular why he hasnt felt the need to stretch himself out again playing wise. Not that Ive heard a lot of later say Mike + The Mechanics, but what I have heard has been pretty vanilla adult contemporary stuff.

I will say I do really like the Living Years album. Its not totally just a pop fest, though it is all pretty mainstream sounding (for that time). His playing is pretty tame on that one though.

I think it's sort of the other way around; Genesis didn't start as "100% prog", they started as a song-writing collective, and actually played the stuff just as an expedience to get their songwriting out there.   Gabriel left in '75 and has pursued a "song" existence almost exclusively ever since, and all three "main" members - Banks, Collins, Rutherford - have pursued the writing side of the equation almost exclusively since the band's "hibernation".  I think this is a way not of "abandoning" the crazy, but actually getting back to the roots and fine-tuning their craft.   I think it says something grand about the band that they have been able to be so successful at such a radical refocusing; no other true "prog" band has really been able to do that except in random instances. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on July 27, 2020, 10:07:18 AM

I just listened to Smallcreep again - and what a genious album it is. It has a sort of melancholic mood, built on the sad life of a threadmill existance. The mood and atmosphere is kept throughout the album - together with Mike, Noel has a big influence on this, but also Anthony Phillips' keyboards has a strong impact. It sort of makes me think of my youth when sitting on a rainy day, looking out of the window without anything to do and wondering what the hell the world is going to be...this music is so good that it makes you think about memories, lost relationships etc...not necessary in a bad way, just like things has happened, and they are never coming back. That sort of thing.


Well put! I have never been able to put it into words like that but it sums up my feelings perfectly.

Also, I totally forgot Anthony Phillips was on this. I bought his debut solo album a while back and couldn't really get into it. These last several months I gave some other albums of his a chance and it really hooked me.

I'm listening now, finally, for the first time.  Wow!  This is really good.  I didn't realize that Anthony Phillips played keyboards as well.  He was the original guitarist for Genesis, of course.

In the comments, someone mentions that Mike is actively blocking the re-release of this album (on CD, presumably).  Does anyone know any more about that?  Is it because Mike didn't really feel like his solo albums were very good?  That's supposedly why he formed Mike + The Mechanics; because he felt that he did his best work in collaboration with others.

I seem to remember an interview a few years ago where he entertained the idea of rereleasing it so I don't know if he is actively blocking it or just not interested enough to make any moves regarding it.

Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Silent Man on July 27, 2020, 11:47:18 AM

As a fan of this music - Duke in particular - I kind of think we're the ignorant fools not the other way around.   It IS too much, I just like it that way.   Most people don't.
 

I understand what you mean. But really, then all people who happens to like musical extravaganca are ignorant fools? In the extreme, if you had those same critics listen to Wagner's 'Die Meistersinger von Nrnberg', more than 5 hours of opera, how would their reviews be? 'Not one memorable song', 'too much', 'overdone' would be my guess. No, I just think that it's very unfortunate to have the wrong people writing reviews of music they don't understand, and never will understand. And we're not getting completely off track here, because I hear a lot of Wagner (and Bach) in Genesis' music. Anthony's playing on Smallcreep has a lot of Bach in it, f.ex.
..and while I'm getting off track, let me just mention Anthony's brilliant album from '77 'The Geese & The Ghost'. That album is REALLY nerdy, but also fascinating. I have a lot of his albums on vinyl, many of them contains endless noodling on guitars - but The Geese & The Ghost stands out.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on July 27, 2020, 12:22:35 PM

As a fan of this music - Duke in particular - I kind of think we're the ignorant fools not the other way around.   It IS too much, I just like it that way.   Most people don't.
 

I understand what you mean. But really, then all people who happens to like musical extravaganca are ignorant fools? In the extreme, if you had those same critics listen to Wagner's 'Die Meistersinger von Nrnberg', more than 5 hours of opera, how would their reviews be? 'Not one memorable song', 'too much', 'overdone' would be my guess. No, I just think that it's very unfortunate to have the wrong people writing reviews of music they don't understand, and never will understand. And we're not getting completely off track here, because I hear a lot of Wagner (and Bach) in Genesis' music. Anthony's playing on Smallcreep has a lot of Bach in it, f.ex.
..and while I'm getting off track, let me just mention Anthony's brilliant album from '77 'The Geese & The Ghost'. That album is REALLY nerdy, but also fascinating. I have a lot of his albums on vinyl, many of them contains endless noodling on guitars - but The Geese & The Ghost stands out.

Well, no, I was just using the comparison you made (in good faith; I'm not criticizing you for it).   I see the same thing in this thread the other way; what's the difference between having a Bon Jovi or Britney fan critiquing Genesis, or a Genesis fan critiquing Bon Jovi or Britney?    One isn't "better"; we have our preferences and our areas of expertise.  We just like one thing more or less than another.   

Rick Beato sort of went down that rabbit hole on a video of his I just watched.   I agreed with some of it, but not all of it.  He seems to think we're "programmed" to be "dumbed down" and I disagree with that.   Strongly, actually.   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on July 27, 2020, 11:23:13 PM

I do think Rutherfords style of bass playing is pretty unusual in the broader rock world. Not that there arent lots of great, creative bass players throughout rock, but the idea of being sort of aggressively melodic and not just rounding out chords and keeping the rhythm is probably lost on a lot of rock fans.

With Mike + The Mechanics and even later Genesis (not altogether of course), I do wonder if Rutherford just decided from a commercial/airplay standpoint that underplaying would be better received by the broader listening public and gave up on more complex bass lines? M+M was clearly engineered for radio success. Yet Ive wondered why later in life after that style was no longer popular why he hasnt felt the need to stretch himself out again playing wise. Not that Ive heard a lot of later say Mike + The Mechanics, but what I have heard has been pretty vanilla adult contemporary stuff.

I will say I do really like the Living Years album. Its not totally just a pop fest, though it is all pretty mainstream sounding (for that time). His playing is pretty tame on that one though.

I think it's sort of the other way around; Genesis didn't start as "100% prog", they started as a song-writing collective, and actually played the stuff just as an expedience to get their songwriting out there.   Gabriel left in '75 and has pursued a "song" existence almost exclusively ever since, and all three "main" members - Banks, Collins, Rutherford - have pursued the writing side of the equation almost exclusively since the band's "hibernation".  I think this is a way not of "abandoning" the crazy, but actually getting back to the roots and fine-tuning their craft.   I think it says something grand about the band that they have been able to be so successful at such a radical refocusing; no other true "prog" band has really been able to do that except in random instances.

I can square the shift towards more streamlined songwriting with their roots as songwriting. Its more that stylistically Rutherfords playing really changed outside of Genesis (somewhat in Genesis but not as noticeably) whereas Phil was still wearing the drum hero hat to an extent as a solo artist, and Tony never stopped being Tony on his solo albums. But Mike just kind of decided not to scrap his repertoire of bass tricks all together. Its not as if he hadnt blended chops with hooks on some of the poppier Genesis tunes (Follow You, Follow Me; Misunderstanding; No Reply At All were all catchy pop songs with really cool bass lines). But for some reason he just dropped that playing style altogether after Genesis and as far as I can tell never went back to it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on July 29, 2020, 05:39:54 PM
He seems to think we're "programmed" to be "dumbed down" and I disagree with that.   Strongly, actually.

Why?  (Just curious.)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on July 30, 2020, 08:49:35 AM
He seems to think we're "programmed" to be "dumbed down" and I disagree with that.   Strongly, actually.

Why?  (Just curious.)

Why do I disagree?  Because I think the notion of "programmed" in that way is ludicrous.   I think we - generally, humans - like what we like and seek more of it out.   Music goes in waves, and as we've seen from the 50's, the early 60's, the late 60's, the early 70's... you get it, music also follows culture and society to a degree.  It's no mystery why the Beatles made such an impact in our psyche less than two months following one of the most catastrophic events in American social history.   It's no mystery why Prog - the systematic breaking of the established rules - blossomed out of the late 60's.   It's no mystery why heavy metal and hard rock - as well as the "Laurel Canyon" scene, in it's own way - blossomed out of the bleakness of the early 70's and the morass that was Vietnam.  We can do this for any period you want to point at.

I think there's something to be said for music as "escapism", and there's something to be said as our society and culture becomes more complicated and confusing, you see a move toward more simplistic, emotionally driven music.   That's not a "programmed dumbing down" - which implies a proactive step driving the change - as much as it is a "reactive supply to meet demand".

The music industry is not a proactive driver; they are a reactive follower.   Look at any "trend":  the Beatles (again), prog, new wave, punk, grunge (especially grunge!), hair metal.    You get an initial innovator - not from the record companies but from creative artists - and then you get a wave of imitators and offshoots to capitalize on the trend.  Then the trend dies and off to the next thing.   If the record companies WERE so powerful as to "program" listeners, there would be no "one hit wonders".  There would be no "disco (or any other) crazes".   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on August 01, 2020, 09:16:34 AM
He seems to think we're "programmed" to be "dumbed down" and I disagree with that.   Strongly, actually.

Why?  (Just curious.)

Why do I disagree?  Because I think the notion of "programmed" in that way is ludicrous.   I think we - generally, humans - like what we like and seek more of it out.   Music goes in waves, and as we've seen from the 50's, the early 60's, the late 60's, the early 70's... you get it, music also follows culture and society to a degree.  It's no mystery why the Beatles made such an impact in our psyche less than two months following one of the most catastrophic events in American social history.   It's no mystery why Prog - the systematic breaking of the established rules - blossomed out of the late 60's.   It's no mystery why heavy metal and hard rock - as well as the "Laurel Canyon" scene, in it's own way - blossomed out of the bleakness of the early 70's and the morass that was Vietnam.  We can do this for any period you want to point at.

I think there's something to be said for music as "escapism", and there's something to be said as our society and culture becomes more complicated and confusing, you see a move toward more simplistic, emotionally driven music.   That's not a "programmed dumbing down" - which implies a proactive step driving the change - as much as it is a "reactive supply to meet demand".

The music industry is not a proactive driver; they are a reactive follower.   Look at any "trend":  the Beatles (again), prog, new wave, punk, grunge (especially grunge!), hair metal.    You get an initial innovator - not from the record companies but from creative artists - and then you get a wave of imitators and offshoots to capitalize on the trend.  Then the trend dies and off to the next thing.   If the record companies WERE so powerful as to "program" listeners, there would be no "one hit wonders".  There would be no "disco (or any other) crazes".

Apologies for being vague. Kinda of agree with you on the "programmed" aspect. Less so on the "dumbed down" part of it although I don't see it as any kind of big picture organized effort.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on September 11, 2020, 04:56:31 PM
Been on a Genesis kick lately...how incredible is One For The Vine?

I've also come to the realization that I really don't care for anything pre-Selling England...it meanders a bit too much for me and doesn't really hit the spot their more "focused" albums do. Hogweed and Harold are a lot of fun though.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 11, 2020, 10:54:35 PM
One for the Vine is amazing, my favorite from that album and one of my favorites overall.  I have a sheet music book with the two '76 albums (A Trick of the Tale and Wind & Wuthering) and was frustrated -- but not surprised -- that those wonderful instrumental breaks weren't transcribed.  So I worked them up myself.  Spent hours in the piano room in my dorm hall, and eventually came up with a 10-minute performance piece, One for the Vine arranged for solo piano.  I still break it out once in a while, just to see if I can still play it, and practice it for the few times I get the opportunity to play it in public.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 12, 2020, 07:59:27 AM
One of my favorite songs of all time, from one of my favorite albums of all time.   Wonderful. 

Orbert, I'd love to hear that sometime.  Is it on tape/video?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 12, 2020, 08:37:41 AM
I thought someone might ask about that.  I've only "performed" it a few times over the years, maybe 8 or ten times, and never in a situation where events were being recorded.  Well, a couple of times were actual public events (a thing for the mayor, and a big religious thing at the mosque downtown), but they didn't record the guy messing around on the piano beforehand.

Usually, I'm asked to provide the music for some kind of event, either alone or as part of an ensemble, and they ask if I/we can play something while people are coming in and getting seated, or as people are leaving.  That's when I whip it out (:omg:).  Since it starts so quietly, with just that Am riff, it sounds like I'm just noodling around, but once the verse starts, people paying attention might realize that I'm actually playing something structured.  Sometimes people even listen actively.  I've heard people gasp at the "Follow Me!" section (2:16 in the song) because I worked out a way to played the chords, bass, and the rising arpeggio line at the same time.  I was particularly proud of that, and felt that it was very important to include that in my arrangement.  Then there was the entire instrumental from 4:42 to 7:19.  All of that had to be worked out.  And of course the coda section starting at 8:20 (F# to Bb to E to B as only Tony Banks can do).  I don't know if I'd attempt it today, but back in college I was pretty fearless.  (That's when I worked out Firth of Fifth as well.)

I've had a few people recognize it and comment on it, which is cool.  One time we were setting up at a gig, and as usual I'd managed to be one of the first guys ready to go (despite having more equipment to set up than anyone except the drummer), so I was messing around with it, seeing what I could do with the synths and stuff, since I usually just play it solo piano.  My wife told me later that Nancy, our lead guitarist's wife, leaned over and asked her if that was Genesis.  Not really asking, more of an expression of disbelief.  She said she'd never heard anyone play One for the Vine before, and definitely didn't expect to hear it in a bar.  That was cool.

At the beginning of the lockdowns, people were posting videos of them playing music on the net.  I thought about doing one, but never did.  Sadly, the main reason is because our basement is a mess and there's no way to capture someone playing without also capturing the state of the basement.  Yes, my piano is in the basement; it's the only place in this tiny house where it could go.  It's been down here 20 years, and has kept remarkably good tune.  I figured I'd have to tune it once in a while, but it's never been necessary.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on September 12, 2020, 08:43:38 AM
Been on a Genesis kick lately...how incredible is One For The Vine?

I've also come to the realization that I really don't care for anything pre-Selling England...it meanders a bit too much for me and doesn't really hit the spot their more "focused" albums do. Hogweed and Harold are a lot of fun though.

You know, after all the box sets came out (and the Gabriel ones came last), I realized I was really more excited by the Collins albums than the Gabriel ones. Before that I would have said the Gabriel area was stronger, but there is a certain charm in Collins voice and maybe a more lighthearted vibe with Banks being the dominant composer. So I also probably spend more time with the Selling England and beyond Genesis than what came before (though I almost never listen to The Lamb outside a few tracks).

But I do still think very highly of Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme. Foxtrot was my first Genesis album. I still love Suppers Ready and that Watcher of the Skies intro will always get me. Also, Can-Utility is still one of my favorite Genesis songs.

On Nursery Cryme, Ive always loved the two short, quiet tracks (For Absent Friends and Harlequin), and I think Seven Stones and Salmacis are also really great. I might be a little less excited by The Musical Box and Giant Hogweed than I once was, but those are still songs I think of fondly.

Although Trespass is one I usually enjoy when I hear it, Ive just never spent much time with it. Hard to explain. Not sure if its because its missing Collins and Hackett or what. There are some great moments on it but I just almost never pull it out.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Max Kuehnau on September 12, 2020, 12:27:44 PM
I love The Knife on Trespass (but then again, I much prefer the live version of it in 1973). I love all of Genesis' albums. They were instrumental in my upbringing and development. I'd listen to Trespass a lot more if it had had PC and Hacko on it already. Their great songwriting was always present though, even on Trespass.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on September 19, 2020, 02:55:42 PM
Don't know if you can call this a Genesis kick, but I've been listening to Three Sides Live again for the last few days.

But then Genesis really doesn't start to happen for me until A Trick Of The Tail.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on September 19, 2020, 03:06:22 PM
Don't know if you can call this a Genesis kick, but I've been listening to Three Sides Live again for the last few days.

But then Genesis really doesn't start to happen for me until A Trick Of The Tail.

I'm pretty similar. Most of my top Genesis songs occur from Trick onward, though there are some notable moments prior and I LOVE most of The Lamb album. I know there are a ton of great b-sides but I cannot find any of the archive albums for a decent price to get them.


You know, after all the box sets came out (and the Gabriel ones came last), I realized I was really more excited by the Collins albums than the Gabriel ones. Before that I would have said the Gabriel area was stronger, but there is a certain charm in Collins voice and maybe a more lighthearted vibe with Banks being the dominant composer. So I also probably spend more time with the Selling England and beyond Genesis than what came before (though I almost never listen to The Lamb outside a few tracks).

But I do still think very highly of Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme. Foxtrot was my first Genesis album. I still love Suppers Ready and that Watcher of the Skies intro will always get me. Also, Can-Utility is still one of my favorite Genesis songs.

On Nursery Cryme, Ive always loved the two short, quiet tracks (For Absent Friends and Harlequin), and I think Seven Stones and Salmacis are also really great. I might be a little less excited by The Musical Box and Giant Hogweed than I once was, but those are still songs I think of fondly.

Although Trespass is one I usually enjoy when I hear it, Ive just never spent much time with it. Hard to explain. Not sure if its because its missing Collins and Hackett or what. There are some great moments on it but I just almost never pull it out.

I agree about Phil's voice. Collins' voice just sounds more pleasing to my ears, and while I think Pete sounds good, there's a raspy quality that doesn't translate well for me in a lot of the music. I also like the more atmospheric Banks of the latter years as opposed to the more typical prog-rock keyboardist stuff he did in the early days.

Trespass is one I really haven't given enough time to. I'm bingeing the entire Genesis catalog though, so maybe those earlier albums will finally sink in. Nursery Cryme is a lot more enjoyable to me than Foxtrot, with Supper's Ready being one of those "Essential Prog 101" songs that do absolutely nothing for me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on September 19, 2020, 03:23:32 PM
Ive sometimes quipped that I prefer Collins Genesis over Gabriel Genesis, and Gabriel solo over Collins solo. Not that I dont really like Collins solo stuff, but I think Gabriel really came into his own as an artist and also became a much better singer from PG 3 onward.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on September 19, 2020, 04:47:42 PM
Ive sometimes quipped that I prefer Collins Genesis over Gabriel Genesis, and Gabriel solo over Collins solo. Not that I dont really like Collins solo stuff, but I think Gabriel really came into his own as an artist and also became a much better singer from PG 3 onward.

That's exactly me. Although I bailed on the Collins solo stuff for the most part after Hello, I Must Be Going while solo Gabriel has been a satisfying ride all the way through.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 21, 2020, 10:08:28 AM
The solo stuff is weird for me.  I love the first three Collins' albums, then he veers mainstream (I think he got caught up in that whole Sting/Amnesty Int'l/REM vibe of the late 80's) and loses me.   I love the first four Gabriel albums, then he veers artiste (where his catalogue is an ever-changing, and ever-evolving living thing) and loses me.   Honestly, right now, I'm not all that jazzed for a solo album from EITHER of them, frankly.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 02, 2020, 10:26:10 AM
If you want a three and a half hour discourse on the Phil Collins era of Genesis, this is a pretty good listen.

https://spiritofcecilia.com/2020/11/02/brad-birzer-talks-genesis/
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: emtee on November 02, 2020, 10:58:35 AM
Me And Sarah Jane has been stuck in my head for 3 days. Randomly. I didn't even spin Abacab. Strange how songs do this to me sometimes.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on November 02, 2020, 11:03:21 AM
Me And Sarah Jane has been stuck in my head for 3 days. Randomly. I didn't even spin Abacab. Strange how songs do this to me sometimes.

That's one of my favorites from Abacab and Three Sides Live.  I really like how they don't repeat any sections, and I really like how they stitched it all together. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 02, 2020, 01:11:48 PM
Yeah, it's an odd tune, in terms of structure.  No repeated sections, but instead it keeps changing and building, and when it gets to the end it still feels like a resolution, very much earned.  Great song.

Genesis had a few of them, although the closest I can think of off-hand are "Turn It On Again" and "It's Gonna Get Better" which both only have one chorus, right at the end, but have two verses each, so those would count as repeated sections.  "Me and Sarah Jane" might be the only one that's truly linear.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: darkshade on November 02, 2020, 03:13:17 PM
I went through a little Genesis phase a few weeks back, went through most of their 70s albums. They were always one of my least favorite and hardest to get into out of all the biggest 70s prog bands, like Yes, Crimson, ELP, Gentle Giant, Camel, etc... Never cared much for anything past Duke.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: emtee on November 02, 2020, 03:31:12 PM
Hard for me to imagine Genesis being harder to get into than KC. We're all different though.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 02, 2020, 03:56:39 PM
I went through a little Genesis phase a few weeks back, went through most of their 70s albums. They were always one of my least favorite and hardest to get into out of all the biggest 70s prog bands, like Yes, Crimson, ELP, Gentle Giant, Camel, etc... Never cared much for anything past Duke.

Past Duke I wouldn't even consider them a prog band.  More like a band that used to be prog, and still included a few prog tidbits in the albums, but basically had gone pop.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 02, 2020, 04:06:23 PM
I went through a little Genesis phase a few weeks back, went through most of their 70s albums. They were always one of my least favorite and hardest to get into out of all the biggest 70s prog bands, like Yes, Crimson, ELP, Gentle Giant, Camel, etc... Never cared much for anything past Duke.

Past Duke I wouldn't even consider them a prog band.  More like a band that used to be prog, and still included a few prog tidbits in the albums, but basically had gone pop.

True as this may be, it still strikes me (or at least it did when I was listening to the podcast I linked to above) how non-mainstream a lot of their popular songs were. Abacab, Mama, Tonight, Tonight, Tonight, even No Son of Mine were all dark and gritty and unusual hit songs. They had their syrupy moments for sure that helped them catapult to pop stardom, but I dont think they ever became a full on pop act.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 02, 2020, 04:18:16 PM
Good point, and it's the non-mainstream, often dark songs the kept me interested in them until the end.  I was a huge Genesis fan in the 70's and into the 80's, but started to lose interest towards the end ("the end" meaning We Can't Dance).  I guess it's unfair to imply that they went full-on pop, even they weren't full-on prog anymore.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 02, 2020, 04:25:49 PM
Good point, and it's the non-mainstream, often dark songs the kept me interested in them until the end.  I was a huge Genesis fan in the 70's and into the 80's, but started to lose interest towards the end ("the end" meaning We Can't Dance).  I guess it's unfair to imply that they went full-on pop, even they weren't full-on prog anymore.

While I tend to not think of Calling All Stations as a proper Genesis album either, it also had some fairly dark moments as well (musically at least). One of the things I like about it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 02, 2020, 04:30:49 PM
True.  If they'd had the time and inclination to do that album properly (it feels rushed and unfinished, and actually was) I think it could have been a pretty good album.  I've heard outtakes from CAS that I like better than what made it onto the album, but they too feel unfinished.  I wished they'd done it right, and I especially would have loved to hear a second album from that lineup.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 02, 2020, 04:46:16 PM
True.  If they'd had the time and inclination to do that album properly (it feels rushed and unfinished, and actually was) I think it could have been a pretty good album.  I've heard outtakes from CAS that I like better than what made it onto the album, but they too feel unfinished.  I wished they'd done it right, and I especially would have loved to hear a second album from that lineup.

Yeah, I also really like some of the extra tracks, and I agree that maybe they could have grown as a group if they kept on. But they also probably could have used a stronger third voice in terms of writing and I dont think Wilson was able to be that. Not sure where Nick Davis was but he also seemed to phone in the production aspect (with all the fadeouts, etc.), though it does sound good.

I think part of it was the timing of that album. They didnt seem to have a strong sense of direction and the pop/mainstream rock world was really up in the air as well. If they waited until the early 2000s when prog was starting to have a little stronger revival, maybe they could have abandoned the idea of making hits altogether and sort of sold people on a return to the classic Genesis sound. Of course by then Phil was ready to reunite at least to tour.

I will say, I probably listen to Calling All Stations and And Then There Were Three as often as any Genesis album on account of them being so controversial. I really do enjoy the bulk of CAS, and think it might have been better received if it had a name other than Genesis.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 02, 2020, 08:40:27 PM
Tony Banks was always my favorite composer within Genesis, but other than a few exceptions, he seemed to need someone else to work with to really make his compositions into songs.  The exceptions include some of my all-time favorite Genesis songs ("One for the Vine", "Can-Utility and the Coastliners") but I have four or five of his solo albums, and they are chock full of dreadfully mediocre "regular" songs.  Tony needs someone to bounce ideas off of and polish his rough cuts into gems.

Mike Rutherford has some good songs, too, but he did his best writing in collaboration with Phil Collins, so that wouldn't exactly help a Genesis without Phil Collins.  And I agree, Ray Wilson doesn't seem to fill the void.  I've read a little bit (not a lot, but a little) about what went into Calling All Stations, and my impression is that they'd come up with a timetable for creating the new album (writing, rehearsing, recordings, mixing, etc) and it simply took longer than they thought it would, but other commitments like release dates and promotions and tour dates were fixed, so they had to go with what they had.  That's not too far from the official story, which is why I don't think it's too far-fetched.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on November 02, 2020, 11:24:52 PM
I always wondered what David Longdon would have brought to the table if he had been chosen as a singer for Genesis.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 03, 2020, 07:00:12 AM
Tony Banks was always my favorite composer within Genesis, but other than a few exceptions, he seemed to need someone else to work with to really make his compositions into songs.  The exceptions include some of my all-time favorite Genesis songs ("One for the Vine", "Can-Utility and the Coastliners") but I have four or five of his solo albums, and they are chock full of dreadfully mediocre "regular" songs.  Tony needs someone to bounce ideas off of and polish his rough cuts into gems.

Mike Rutherford has some good songs, too, but he did his best writing in collaboration with Phil Collins, so that wouldn't exactly help a Genesis without Phil Collins.  And I agree, Ray Wilson doesn't seem to fill the void.  I've read a little bit (not a lot, but a little) about what went into Calling All Stations, and my impression is that they'd come up with a timetable for creating the new album (writing, rehearsing, recordings, mixing, etc) and it simply took longer than they thought it would, but other commitments like release dates and promotions and tour dates were fixed, so they had to go with what they had.  That's not too far from the official story, which is why I don't think it's too far-fetched.

The ran out of time theory makes a lot of sense.

I always wondered what David Longdon would have brought to the table if he had been chosen as a singer for Genesis.

Yeah, me too. I am ultimately glad it didnt work out, because we probably wouldnt have Big Big Train as we know today. But Longdon is definitely the superior of the two singers, and he might have been able to be that missing third person as far as the writing.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on November 03, 2020, 07:47:48 AM
Tony Banks was always my favorite composer within Genesis, but other than a few exceptions, he seemed to need someone else to work with to really make his compositions into songs.  The exceptions include some of my all-time favorite Genesis songs ("One for the Vine", "Can-Utility and the Coastliners") but I have four or five of his solo albums, and they are chock full of dreadfully mediocre "regular" songs.  Tony needs someone to bounce ideas off of and polish his rough cuts into gems.

Mike Rutherford has some good songs, too, but he did his best writing in collaboration with Phil Collins, so that wouldn't exactly help a Genesis without Phil Collins.  And I agree, Ray Wilson doesn't seem to fill the void.  I've read a little bit (not a lot, but a little) about what went into Calling All Stations, and my impression is that they'd come up with a timetable for creating the new album (writing, rehearsing, recordings, mixing, etc) and it simply took longer than they thought it would, but other commitments like release dates and promotions and tour dates were fixed, so they had to go with what they had.  That's not too far from the official story, which is why I don't think it's too far-fetched.

The ran out of time theory makes a lot of sense.


There is a B-side from those sessions called Run Out of Time, so....
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 03, 2020, 08:12:23 AM
Tony Banks was always my favorite composer within Genesis, but other than a few exceptions, he seemed to need someone else to work with to really make his compositions into songs.  The exceptions include some of my all-time favorite Genesis songs ("One for the Vine", "Can-Utility and the Coastliners") but I have four or five of his solo albums, and they are chock full of dreadfully mediocre "regular" songs.  Tony needs someone to bounce ideas off of and polish his rough cuts into gems.

Mike Rutherford has some good songs, too, but he did his best writing in collaboration with Phil Collins, so that wouldn't exactly help a Genesis without Phil Collins.  And I agree, Ray Wilson doesn't seem to fill the void.  I've read a little bit (not a lot, but a little) about what went into Calling All Stations, and my impression is that they'd come up with a timetable for creating the new album (writing, rehearsing, recordings, mixing, etc) and it simply took longer than they thought it would, but other commitments like release dates and promotions and tour dates were fixed, so they had to go with what they had.  That's not too far from the official story, which is why I don't think it's too far-fetched.

The ran out of time theory makes a lot of sense.


There is a B-side from those sessions called Run Out of Time, so....

Yes! The pun was sort of intentional! I really like that song apart from the somewhat cheesy keyboard sax sound.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 03, 2020, 08:33:18 AM
If you want a three and a half hour discourse on the Phil Collins era of Genesis, this is a pretty good listen.

https://spiritofcecilia.com/2020/11/02/brad-birzer-talks-genesis/

That's funny; I don't remember doing that.   :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 03, 2020, 08:45:03 AM
I went through a little Genesis phase a few weeks back, went through most of their 70s albums. They were always one of my least favorite and hardest to get into out of all the biggest 70s prog bands, like Yes, Crimson, ELP, Gentle Giant, Camel, etc... Never cared much for anything past Duke.

Past Duke I wouldn't even consider them a prog band.  More like a band that used to be prog, and still included a few prog tidbits in the albums, but basically had gone pop.

Obs the double concept is their most prog moment, but I would put Abacab up there as their second or third most prog album (they even busted out Supper's Ready on that tour).   FOR THE TIME, there's not really one truly mainstream pop offering on that record.    Abacab - named after it's structure though they reshuffled the parts (Mike has said it's accaabbaacc) - is an oddly constructed tune.  No Reply At All has the Phoenix Horns, a radical - i.e. "progressive" - choice for the time.  We've already talked about the compositional uniqueness of Me And Sarah Jane (probably my favorite song on the album).   Keep It Dark - in 6/4 time - is an unusual song.  Dodo/Lurker is the most typically "prog" song, as it is a part of a longer suite, the remainder released as b-sides.   Whodunnit?, the most controversial song on the record, is far from a "pop" song (and featured the band, live, on different instruments).   Man On The Corner - which was booed at many shows on the album tour, is really FOR THE TIME somewhat innovative, using the Roland drum machine (I think only previously used on Duchess, from Duke).    Like It Or Not and Another Record are a little more straightforward, but they still have their proggish moments.   

The album itself - the first engineered by Hugh Padgham - has been lauded for it's sound quality, and it's the first Genesis album with the famed "Phil Collins sound".   I think it's a high water mark of the band, and EXTREMELY under appreciated.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 03, 2020, 08:53:28 AM
I really like Abacab too. In that podcast they described it (I think) as the ultimate mix of punk, new wave, and prog. Whatever it is, I like all of the songs except Whodunnit. I do often wish they had kept some of the proggier b-sides on the album (as well as the tremendous You Might Recall), but that doesnt stop me from appreciating the album as it is.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: emtee on November 03, 2020, 09:44:03 AM
Always loved RPWL'S version of Roses with Ray on vocals.


https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=lhnIKKDyHwE&list=RDAMVMlhnIKKDyHwE
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 03, 2020, 12:20:41 PM
I really like Abacab too. In that podcast they described it (I think) as the ultimate mix of punk, new wave, and prog. Whatever it is, I like all of the songs except Whodunnit. I do often wish they had kept some of the proggier b-sides on the album (as well as the tremendous You Might Recall), but that doesnt stop me from appreciating the album as it is.

I don't think it's still there, but for the longest time I had an "Abacab Complete" playlist on my iPod with ALL the b-sides.  I think Paperlate, You Might Recall and the "interlude" of Submarine/Naminanu really give the album some variety, even though I can see why they cut what they did. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 03, 2020, 12:24:56 PM
I went through a little Genesis phase a few weeks back, went through most of their 70s albums. They were always one of my least favorite and hardest to get into out of all the biggest 70s prog bands, like Yes, Crimson, ELP, Gentle Giant, Camel, etc... Never cared much for anything past Duke.

Past Duke I wouldn't even consider them a prog band.  More like a band that used to be prog, and still included a few prog tidbits in the albums, but basically had gone pop.

Obs the double concept is their most prog moment, but I would put Abacab up there as their second or third most prog album (they even busted out Supper's Ready on that tour).   FOR THE TIME, there's not really one truly mainstream pop offering on that record.    Abacab - named after it's structure though they reshuffled the parts (Mike has said it's accaabbaacc) - is an oddly constructed tune.  No Reply At All has the Phoenix Horns, a radical - i.e. "progressive" - choice for the time.  We've already talked about the compositional uniqueness of Me And Sarah Jane (probably my favorite song on the album).   Keep It Dark - in 6/4 time - is an unusual song.  Dodo/Lurker is the most typically "prog" song, as it is a part of a longer suite, the remainder released as b-sides.   Whodunnit?, the most controversial song on the record, is far from a "pop" song (and featured the band, live, on different instruments).   Man On The Corner - which was booed at many shows on the album tour, is really FOR THE TIME somewhat innovative, using the Roland drum machine (I think only previously used on Duchess, from Duke).    Like It Or Not and Another Record are a little more straightforward, but they still have their proggish moments.   

The album itself - the first engineered by Hugh Padgham - has been lauded for it's sound quality, and it's the first Genesis album with the famed "Phil Collins sound".   I think it's a high water mark of the band, and EXTREMELY under appreciated.

Interesting.  I have to agree with your analysis, and hadn't really considered how truly unusual every track is on that album.  A lot of it is that they had the gift of making complex and unusual music sound "normal".  Genesis have a lot of songs that are much odder than you realize until you break them down (which most people never do).

However, the title track, when all is said and done, is really just AABAC, which isn't that unusual.  A couple of verses, a break, a third verse, and a jam.  Only the fact that the jam goes in a different direction earns it the C; it is otherwise a pretty straightforward song.

The very next track "No Reply at All" may have the Phoenix Horns, which was a departure for Genesis, but again the song itself is pretty basic AABA.  And since Phil had just done a solo song or two with the horns, many saw this as the "poppifying" of Genesis, via Phil and the horns.

Thus, with the first two tracks, the impression was cast.  The album comes across as pretty mainstream, despite every track after the first two being pretty odd in their own ways.  Except "Another Record" which, other than the weirdass intro, is also a pretty straightforward song.  I've always loved the "joke" at the end, as it fades out and the album is ending, you hear Phil repeating "Put another record on..."

Mostly I tend to skip abacab because of my poor first impression of it, and because I think the live versions on Three Sides Live and generally superior.  I play Three Sides Live all the time; I rarely bother with abacab.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 03, 2020, 04:06:17 PM
I really like Abacab too. In that podcast they described it (I think) as the ultimate mix of punk, new wave, and prog. Whatever it is, I like all of the songs except Whodunnit. I do often wish they had kept some of the proggier b-sides on the album (as well as the tremendous You Might Recall), but that doesnt stop me from appreciating the album as it is.

I don't think it's still there, but for the longest time I had an "Abacab Complete" playlist on my iPod with ALL the b-sides.  I think Paperlate, You Might Recall and the "interlude" of Submarine/Naminanu really give the album some variety, even though I can see why they cut what they did.

Ive had a couple of these through the years. I listened to the most recent one I did today. I sort of did the first half with the more pop/commercial tunes, and the second half with more of the prog tunes.

1. Abacab
2. No Reply At All
3. You Might Recall
4. Paper Late
5. Keep it Dark
6. Another Record
7. Me and Sarah Jane
8. Naminanu
9. Dodo/Lurker
10. Submarine
11. Man on the Corner
12. Like it or Not

I like Like it or Not as the closer, but you could just as easily swap it with Another Record if you want to keep the put another record on as the closing refrain.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on November 04, 2020, 07:54:46 AM
I'm not sure there is a Steve Hackett thread, so I'll post this here:

Quote
Iconic guitarist Steve Hackett, releases his new acoustic album 'Under A Mediterranean Sky' on 22nd January 2021 as a Limited CD Digipak, Gatefold 2LP + CD + LP-booklet and Digital Album via InsideOut Music. Under A Mediterranean Sky is Steve Hacketts first acoustic solo album since Tribute in 2008 and takes inspiration from Steves extensive travels around the Mediterranean with his wife Jo.
Working closely with long-time musical partner Roger King, Hackett has used his time during 2020s lockdown to take us on an extraordinary musical journey around the Mediterranean, painting vivid images of stunning landscapes and celebrating the diverse cultures of the region. Famed for his rock roots with Genesis, and through his extensive solo catalogue, Hackett demonstrates the exquisite beauty of the nylon guitar at times venturing into the exotic ethnic and often supported by dazzling orchestral arrangements.
A lot of acoustic ideas had been forming over the years, and it felt like the perfect time to create this album, notes Hackett, a time to contemplate the places weve visited around the Mediterranean with the kind of music which evolved from the world of imagination.
Because we cant really travel, substantially at the moment, I hope that the album will take people on that journey. Whether you sit down and listen to it or drift off to it with a glass of wine
Track Listing:
Mdina (The Walled City) (Steve Hackett / Roger King)
Adriatic Blue (Steve Hackett)
Sirocco (Steve Hackett / Jo Hackett / Roger King)
Joie de Vivre (Steve Hackett / Jo Hackett)
The Memory of Myth (Steve Hackett / Jo Hackett / Roger King
Scarlatti Sonata (Domenico Scarlatti)
Casa del Fauno (Steve Hackett / Roger King)
The Dervish and the Djin (Steve Hackett / Jo Hackett / Roger King)
Lorato (Steve Hackett)
Andalusian Heart (Steve Hackett / Jo Hackett / Roger King)
The Call of the Sea (Steve Hackett)
Pre-order starts 20th November.

(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s1080x2048/123691966_10159045785040439_6180711960178363581_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Cq-dZTypOC0AX_kpuqy&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&tp=7&oh=f504fcf1a0107c8c7f8051717fc2cd41&oe=5FC90A22)

I love Steve's masterful acoustic guitar work, so this has me excited!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 04, 2020, 08:04:42 AM
That might be interesting. I have Momentum and always enjoyed it but dont listen to it all that often. Ive started at the beginning with Hacketts solo stuff but still only have his first four solo albums and Momentum. Havent gotten around to any of his recent releases, although the last one sounded pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 04, 2020, 10:49:26 AM
Watching Live at Knebworth (after the official Genesis account shared the YouTube link on Twitter). Another potential missed opportunity after Phil Collins left might have been in not inviting Chester Thompson and even Deryl Stuermer to join the band as recording members. That might have provided more continuity and but also more chops to the recording unit. It doesnt sound like that was something Tony and Mike ever seriously considered unfortunately.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 04, 2020, 12:18:27 PM
It was never a consideration, because they were never part of the band.  Genesis always made a distinction between the band proper and the "touring band".  Chester Thompson (and Bill Bruford before him) was only ever the touring drummer because they wanted Phil to front the band, but needed someone on the kit full time.  Daryl Stuermer was only ever the touring guitarist/bassist because they needed someone when Steve Hackett left.

I know what you're saying, and to some it may seem a reasonable compromise, but I've never had any problem with Mike Rutherford's chops.  He's not the flashiest guitarist, but he's fine for what they were doing from the late 70's and beyond.  There was no reason to invite Daryl because they already had a perfectly fine guitarist/bassist.

Chester is another matter.  I read that he was disappointed that he was apparently never considered to replace Phil on the kit when Phil left.  It's possible that Mike and Tony had a bit of tunnel vision regarding Chester, thinking of him as "only" the touring drummer, and not even considering him a candidate as full-time drummer in the band.  After working with him in that capacity for 20 years or so, I can see that.  Phil was originally "only" the drummer, and it was only after countless failed auditions (some say over 100) that it finally occurred to them that they had the new lead singer already in the band.

Mike and Tony had been in Genesis from the beginning.  After successfully carrying on after Peter Gabriel left, and later Steve Hackett, I think they were in a mindset that you don't replace members, you just learn to continue without them, and that worked well for 20 years.  Losing Phil after all that time I think messed with them.  They had to find another singer and another drummer.  One person who could do both would've been great, but when that didn't pan out, I think they panicked, and when you're in panic mode, you're not thinking clearly.  They considered ending Genesis, but eventually decided to carry on, try to make it work.  In hindsight, maybe they should've called the new band something else.  But with Mike and Tony in the band, many would've just called it the "new Genesis" anyway, and my guess is that helped them decide to continue as Genesis.  I mean, if everyone was going to call them the "new Genesis", they might as well do it, too.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 04, 2020, 12:43:19 PM
It sounds like many mistakes were made. Ultimately it just wasnt a great time to try to reboot Genesis I dont think.

In suggesting Daryl join the band, Im not trying to belittle Rutherfords abilities at all. But I do think it would have been interesting for him to go back to focus mainly on bass with Stuermer providing a little more oomph in the lead guitar department. Of course if they wanted that they could have had Daryl add guitar at any time after Hackett left, so there probably wasnt much interest in doing it at that point either.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lupton on November 04, 2020, 02:45:37 PM
Regarding the drums on Calling All Stations I found this discussion between Nick and Chester to be interesting
https://youtu.be/qHSmYIlIYoM?t=1542 (https://youtu.be/qHSmYIlIYoM?t=1542)

Around 25:45 mark Chester flips the interview around on Nick!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on November 18, 2020, 12:56:12 AM
Happy 46th Birthday to The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway!!! 🐑 🐑 🐑

Giving the album a spin tonight as I head to bed. I haven't heard the original Lamb in awhile (typically I'll listen to the Rewiring Genesis version), but I guess The Lamb's birthday is a good day to go back to the original!

Funnily enough, I find myself remember more of the lyrics than I thought I would! Such a good album!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 18, 2020, 06:55:41 AM
Happy 46th Birthday to The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway!!! 🐑 🐑 🐑

Giving the album a spin tonight as I head to bed. I haven't heard the original Lamb in awhile (typically I'll listen to the Rewiring Genesis version), but I guess The Lamb's birthday is a good day to go back to the original!

Funnily enough, I find myself remember more of the lyrics than I thought I would! Such a good album!

-Marc.

I love that, though; when you go back to something and the lyrics (and melodies) just flood back.  That just happened to me with Ozzy.  I hadn't listened to him in a while, but I put on Blizzard and Diary and I knew every word, every fill (drums and guitar), etc.   It felt good.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 18, 2020, 07:55:29 AM
I was kind of randomly listening to The Lamb the other day. Its never been one of my favorite Genesis albums. A large part of that is the lyrics, but the music is also pretty drastically different in places than other Genesis albums. There are parts that I think are pretty great. I just have a hard time getting through all of it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on November 18, 2020, 08:07:48 AM
I think the album starts off great, but the second disc/half loses my interest pretty quick. I'd still rank it pretty high in their discography, based on the strength of that first half (The Lamb, Cuckoo Cocoon, In The Cage, Back In NYC, Hairless Heart, Counting Out Time, Carpet Crawlers).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 18, 2020, 08:36:46 AM
I think the album starts off great, but the second disc/half loses my interest pretty quick. I'd still rank it pretty high in their discography, based on the strength of that first half (The Lamb, Cuckoo Cocoon, In The Cage, Back In NYC, Hairless Heart, Counting Out Time, Carpet Crawlers).

Yeah, it begins and ends well, but to some extent I get lost in the middle. Carpet Crawlers is great though.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on November 18, 2020, 08:40:04 AM
I never really could get into Lamb. Some great songs there but overall it never clicked with me. Ranks probably in the lower third of their discography for me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on November 18, 2020, 08:57:13 AM
I've always felt that The Lamb was an album that chose Genesis to record it.  It's unlike anything before or after in their catalog.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 18, 2020, 10:23:14 AM
I've always felt that The Lamb was an album that chose Genesis to record it.  It's unlike anything before or after in their catalog.

I love that idea.  There's probably some truth in that, since particularly with Gabriel, he's never even approached that level or style of storytelling since. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on November 18, 2020, 10:39:07 AM
I've always felt that The Lamb was an album that chose Genesis to record it.  It's unlike anything before or after in their catalog.

I love that idea.  There's probably some truth in that, since particularly with Gabriel, he's never even approached that level or style of storytelling since.

To me, A Trick of the Tail is more of the logical follow up to Selling England than the Lamb was.  Trick and Selling are both kind of lush and romantic sounding, whereas The Lamb is very "street" and sort of gritty.  I think it's particularly interesting that they were able to capture that vibe recording in the Welsh country side.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 19, 2020, 12:28:55 PM
I never really could get into Lamb. Some great songs there but overall it never clicked with me. Ranks probably in the lower third of their discography for me.

Same here. Then I saw The Musical Box (tribute band) play about half the album live and it really breathed new life into it. Now I appreciate the album a lot more.

For some reason when I went to Hawaii, my wife and I listened to that album on repeat as we drove around, so now I associate The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway with the tiny island of Molokai.  :lol About the furthest thing from what the album is about.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 19, 2020, 12:38:39 PM
I never really could get into Lamb. Some great songs there but overall it never clicked with me. Ranks probably in the lower third of their discography for me.

Same here. Then I saw The Musical Box (tribute band) play about half the album live and it really breathed new life into it. Now I appreciate the album a lot more.

For some reason when I went to Hawaii, my wife and I listened to that album on repeat as we drove around, so now I associate The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway with the tiny island of Molokai.  :lol About the furthest thing from what the album is about.

I saw that (the Musical Box) too.  Wonderful.  I have tix to them - front row - for when concerts resume.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: emtee on November 19, 2020, 03:12:53 PM
Parts I love. Parts I actively dislike. Lower tier overall. Fly On A Windshield is among my favorites.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 19, 2020, 08:45:01 PM
I never really could get into Lamb. Some great songs there but overall it never clicked with me. Ranks probably in the lower third of their discography for me.

Same here. Then I saw The Musical Box (tribute band) play about half the album live and it really breathed new life into it. Now I appreciate the album a lot more.

For some reason when I went to Hawaii, my wife and I listened to that album on repeat as we drove around, so now I associate The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway with the tiny island of Molokai.  :lol About the furthest thing from what the album is about.

I saw that (the Musical Box) too.  Wonderful.  I have tix to them - front row - for when concerts resume.

Me too. It's actually become a yearly tradition for my wife and I. Last year the concert just happened to fall the day after Dream Theater played so it was a hell of a weekend.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on November 20, 2020, 06:06:51 AM
I've made an effort recently to listen to albums by bands I really like that I ignored or only listened to minimally, so Trespass and Calling All Stations have gotten heavy rotation from me in the past few weeks. CAS is a lot better than I remember. The whole back half of the album from The Dividing Line-One Man's Fool is all pretty high quality stuff. And the first half is pretty solid as well. I really don't hear any clunkers, except maybe a few cheesy moments like Shipwrecked and If That's What You Need. I think my favorite moment overall is the dorky keyboard solo at the end of Congo that could've only been written by Tony Banks...it's goofy as hell but so uniquely him to my ears.

Any thoughts on this one? I know there's a whole bunch of b-sides but I've never bothered listening to them since I was so turned off by the actual album but I may seek them out after changing my opinion on the album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on November 20, 2020, 06:56:54 AM
Many of the b-sides were better than the songs that made the album.  In particular, I liked 7/8, Sign Your Life Away, and Anything Now.  I ended up making a version of the album that felt a bit more consistent than what they actually released.

Calling All Stations
Anything Now
Sign Your Life Away
Alien Afternoon
The Dividing Line
7/8
Small Talk
There Must Be Some Other Way
One Man's Fool

For me, it plays much better than the official album release.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 20, 2020, 07:10:49 AM
I've made an effort recently to listen to albums by bands I really like that I ignored or only listened to minimally, so Trespass and Calling All Stations have gotten heavy rotation from me in the past few weeks. CAS is a lot better than I remember. The whole back half of the album from The Dividing Line-One Man's Fool is all pretty high quality stuff. And the first half is pretty solid as well. I really don't hear any clunkers, except maybe a few cheesy moments like Shipwrecked and If That's What You Need. I think my favorite moment overall is the dorky keyboard solo at the end of Congo that could've only been written by Tony Banks...it's goofy as hell but so uniquely him to my ears.

Any thoughts on this one? I know there's a whole bunch of b-sides but I've never bothered listening to them since I was so turned off by the actual album but I may seek them out after changing my opinion on the album.

I like just about every song on CAS. I dont care for If Thats What You Need or Small Talk. I do like Congo and I know a lot of people dont. I dont mind Shipwrecked or even Not About Us even if they arent great Genesis songs if that makes sense. But I think the title track, Dividing Line, and Uncertain Weather are great and stand up pretty well with other 80s/90s Genesis. I also think the last two tracks (There Must Be Some Other Way and One Mans Fool) are really strong.

As a whole the album is a little darker and edgier than We Cant Dance. Different for Genesis for sure, may have been better to just form a new project, but I do like it. Every song fades out and some at really bad times, but the production is otherwise strong. Nir Z does a great job on his tracks. NDV didnt get a chance to stretch out much on his though. Ray Wilsons voice is a bit of a sticking point, but Ive come to like it even if he seems pretty limited compared to Phil Collins.

Of the B-sides, I really like the ones that were on the re-issue box set bonus disc. Anything Now is a little bit Peter Gabriel/Sledgehammer-ish. Sign Your Life Away is one that features NDV on drums and has a nice upbeat groove. And then Run Out of Time is a bluesy love song/ballad but Ray Wilson nails the vocal part on it. Its one that really suits his voice. Cheesy synth saxophone sound though.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 20, 2020, 07:15:09 AM
Many of the b-sides were better than the songs that made the album.  In particular, I liked 7/8, Sign Your Life Away, and Anything Now.  I ended up making a version of the album that felt a bit more consistent than what they actually released.

Calling All Stations
Anything Now
Sign Your Life Away
Alien Afternoon
The Dividing Line
7/8
Small Talk
There Must Be Some Other Way
One Man's Fool

For me, it plays much better than the official album release.

I have a similar playlist/CD version that I listen to pretty frequently. Mine just drops Its Not About Us, Alien Afternoon, and Small Talk in favor of Anything Now, Sign Your Life Away, and Run Out of Time.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on November 21, 2020, 05:22:56 AM
Many of the b-sides were better than the songs that made the album.  In particular, I liked 7/8, Sign Your Life Away, and Anything Now.  I ended up making a version of the album that felt a bit more consistent than what they actually released.

Calling All Stations
Anything Now
Sign Your Life Away
Alien Afternoon
The Dividing Line
7/8
Small Talk
There Must Be Some Other Way
One Man's Fool

For me, it plays much better than the official album release.

What's the best way to get those b-sides? I'm sure it's on some compilation somewhere but I can't find anything but the regular album on Amazon. I always appreciate an alternate track listing and my biggest gripe about the regular CAS album is the track order/pacing.


I like just about every song on CAS. I dont care for If Thats What You Need or Small Talk. I do like Congo and I know a lot of people dont. I dont mind Shipwrecked or even Not About Us even if they arent great Genesis songs if that makes sense. But I think the title track, Dividing Line, and Uncertain Weather are great and stand up pretty well with other 80s/90s Genesis. I also think the last two tracks (There Must Be Some Other Way and One Mans Fool) are really strong.

As a whole the album is a little darker and edgier than We Cant Dance. Different for Genesis for sure, may have been better to just form a new project, but I do like it. Every song fades out and some at really bad times, but the production is otherwise strong. Nir Z does a great job on his tracks. NDV didnt get a chance to stretch out much on his though. Ray Wilsons voice is a bit of a sticking point, but Ive come to like it even if he seems pretty limited compared to Phil Collins.

Of the B-sides, I really like the ones that were on the re-issue box set bonus disc. Anything Now is a little bit Peter Gabriel/Sledgehammer-ish. Sign Your Life Away is one that features NDV on drums and has a nice upbeat groove. And then Run Out of Time is a bluesy love song/ballad but Ray Wilson nails the vocal part on it. Its one that really suits his voice. Cheesy synth saxophone sound though.

Small Talk occupies a certain quirky space that I always liked about Genesis...these goofy little songs that aren't great but stick in your head so I'd keep it for that reason just to break up the longer songs. I never had a problem with Ray's voice...it fits the darker tone of the music quite well imo. The last two tracks are really outstanding though it's obvious The Dividing Line is probably the most "important" song on the album
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 21, 2020, 12:02:03 PM
Many of the b-sides were better than the songs that made the album.  In particular, I liked 7/8, Sign Your Life Away, and Anything Now.  I ended up making a version of the album that felt a bit more consistent than what they actually released.

Calling All Stations
Anything Now
Sign Your Life Away
Alien Afternoon
The Dividing Line
7/8
Small Talk
There Must Be Some Other Way
One Man's Fool

For me, it plays much better than the official album release.

What's the best way to get those b-sides? I'm sure it's on some compilation somewhere but I can't find anything but the regular album on Amazon. I always appreciate an alternate track listing and my biggest gripe about the regular CAS album is the track order/pacing.

All but one ("Nowhere Else To Turn") are on the Congo, Shipwrecked and Not About Us CD singles.   Only the ones from "Not About Us" are on the 1983-1998 Box Set. That was odd; the remaining ones are the only b-sides they cut from the general release package. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on November 21, 2020, 12:53:36 PM
I've made an effort recently to listen to albums by bands I really like that I ignored or only listened to minimally, so Trespass and Calling All Stations have gotten heavy rotation from me in the past few weeks. CAS is a lot better than I remember. The whole back half of the album from The Dividing Line-One Man's Fool is all pretty high quality stuff. And the first half is pretty solid as well. I really don't hear any clunkers, except maybe a few cheesy moments like Shipwrecked and If That's What You Need. I think my favorite moment overall is the dorky keyboard solo at the end of Congo that could've only been written by Tony Banks...it's goofy as hell but so uniquely him to my ears.

Any thoughts on this one? I know there's a whole bunch of b-sides but I've never bothered listening to them since I was so turned off by the actual album but I may seek them out after changing my opinion on the album.

I've always like Calling All Stations definitely more than We Can't Dance and probably more than Invisible Touch.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 21, 2020, 03:19:48 PM
I've made an effort recently to listen to albums by bands I really like that I ignored or only listened to minimally, so Trespass and Calling All Stations have gotten heavy rotation from me in the past few weeks. CAS is a lot better than I remember. The whole back half of the album from The Dividing Line-One Man's Fool is all pretty high quality stuff. And the first half is pretty solid as well. I really don't hear any clunkers, except maybe a few cheesy moments like Shipwrecked and If That's What You Need. I think my favorite moment overall is the dorky keyboard solo at the end of Congo that could've only been written by Tony Banks...it's goofy as hell but so uniquely him to my ears.

Any thoughts on this one? I know there's a whole bunch of b-sides but I've never bothered listening to them since I was so turned off by the actual album but I may seek them out after changing my opinion on the album.

If you look back in this thread, the album was discussed a bit. I only got into Genesis a few years ago and when I finally got around to buying this, my reaction was much like everybody elses. Still, I liked part of it. I liked Ray Wilson. Many of the songs sounded unfinished and then faded out at a very inopportune time. In fact, I think the band admitted they didn't know how to finish a lot of the songs or something like that.

This album gets heavy play out of me. Like I mentioned the other day, I sometimes connect albums to when I travel. My wife and I were listening to this a lot when we traveled out west so I associate this with a pit stop in Cheyenne, WY, driving around trying to find any restaurant open on the 4th of july, and then a good place to watch fireworks.

I love the Live in Poland bootleg with Ray Wilson. He is such an amazing singer and I actually prefer his version of Carpet Crawlers to the other two. Even though I think he is the "weakest" of the three and his renditions of songs like Domino or Mama aren't as good as Phil's, I still love listening to those versions once in a while.

I struck up a friendship with the guy sitting next to me at a Phil Collins show in 2018 and he travels to Europe almost every year to go see a few Ray Wilson shows. That's too hardcore for me BUT when the pandemic is over, I am considering a Europe trip that will HOPEFULLY coincide with a Ray Wilson show or two.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on November 22, 2020, 04:25:55 AM

All but one ("Nowhere Else To Turn") are on the Congo, Shipwrecked and Not About Us CD singles.   Only the ones from "Not About Us" are on the 1983-1998 Box Set. That was odd; the remaining ones are the only b-sides they cut from the general release package.

I really wish they would release an all b-sides collection like the Pumpkins did with Aeroplane Flies High or The Cure with Join The Dots. I'm usually obsessive about getting b-sides from bands I love but for some reason I never tracked down a single Genesis one and the situation you describe is probably why...they're too scattered across different compilations and box sets.


I've always like Calling All Stations definitely more than We Can't Dance and probably more than Invisible Touch.

At this point, I think I like it better than those two as well (and probably also Trespass, ATTW3, and Foxtrot)


If you look back in this thread, the album was discussed a bit. I only got into Genesis a few years ago and when I finally got around to buying this, my reaction was much like everybody elses. Still, I liked part of it. I liked Ray Wilson. Many of the songs sounded unfinished and then faded out at a very inopportune time. In fact, I think the band admitted they didn't know how to finish a lot of the songs or something like that.

This album gets heavy play out of me. Like I mentioned the other day, I sometimes connect albums to when I travel. My wife and I were listening to this a lot when we traveled out west so I associate this with a pit stop in Cheyenne, WY, driving around trying to find any restaurant open on the 4th of july, and then a good place to watch fireworks.

I love the Live in Poland bootleg with Ray Wilson. He is such an amazing singer and I actually prefer his version of Carpet Crawlers to the other two. Even though I think he is the "weakest" of the three and his renditions of songs like Domino or Mama aren't as good as Phil's, I still love listening to those versions once in a while.

I struck up a friendship with the guy sitting next to me at a Phil Collins show in 2018 and he travels to Europe almost every year to go see a few Ray Wilson shows. That's too hardcore for me BUT when the pandemic is over, I am considering a Europe trip that will HOPEFULLY coincide with a Ray Wilson show or two.

I'll dig through the thread for CAS related stuff. It's awesome to rediscover an album that I've owned for 20 years but never gave a lot of time to...it's like getting a brand new Genesis album. About the fadeouts, someone on reddit made a great point that the album is meant to fade in/out like changing radio stations and that the tracklist was reordered at the last minute to make it more front-heavy with hits, thus ruining the changing radio station continuity. He suggested that the original tracklist began with Shipwrecked (due to the radio station noises in the intro) and ended with The Dividing Line because that's the only song with a non-fadeout ending. Not sure it matters to anyone, but it might give a little context as to what they were trying to achieve.

Ray Wilson is great, I especially liked his solo album Chasing Rainbows. I don't know if a show of his is worth traveling outside the US for, but I'd see him in a heartbeat if he came here. His set looks mainly comprised of Genesis covers...I wonder if him and Hackett ever discussed doing a tour together?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 22, 2020, 09:01:43 AM

All but one ("Nowhere Else To Turn") are on the Congo, Shipwrecked and Not About Us CD singles.   Only the ones from "Not About Us" are on the 1983-1998 Box Set. That was odd; the remaining ones are the only b-sides they cut from the general release package.

I really wish they would release an all b-sides collection like the Pumpkins did with Aeroplane Flies High or The Cure with Join The Dots. I'm usually obsessive about getting b-sides from bands I love but for some reason I never tracked down a single Genesis one and the situation you describe is probably why...they're too scattered across different compilations and box sets.


I'm a b-sides guy, too, so don't get me started!   The Archive sets were supposed to do that, but they blinked and left off Me And Virgil and Match of the Day, and edited Submarine and It's Yourself.  Then the "big" box sets came out and they restored all the missing tracks, and used different edits of Submarine (to better approximate the original release, whose master was damaged).  But then they left off some of the CAS b-sides.    I used to scream for a b-sides collection from Gabriel and Collins, and FINALLY, this past year they released them digital only, which blows but is a start.  I don't get it; it's their music, and (some) fans want to buy it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 22, 2020, 10:52:40 AM

I'll dig through the thread for CAS related stuff. It's awesome to rediscover an album that I've owned for 20 years but never gave a lot of time to...it's like getting a brand new Genesis album. About the fadeouts, someone on reddit made a great point that the album is meant to fade in/out like changing radio stations and that the tracklist was reordered at the last minute to make it more front-heavy with hits, thus ruining the changing radio station continuity. He suggested that the original tracklist began with Shipwrecked (due to the radio station noises in the intro) and ended with The Dividing Line because that's the only song with a non-fadeout ending. Not sure it matters to anyone, but it might give a little context as to what they were trying to achieve.

Holy shit! I've never heard this before. That makes me want to rearrange the tracklist and listen to it that way. If anyone can find out what the original track order was, please let me know.

Quote
His set looks mainly comprised of Genesis covers...I wonder if him and Hackett ever discussed doing a tour together?

Wilson has guested on a few songs with Hackett so it wouldn't be totally out of the question.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on November 22, 2020, 11:18:07 AM

Holy shit! I've never heard this before. That makes me want to rearrange the tracklist and listen to it that way. If anyone can find out what the original track order was, please let me know.



Heres his post on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Genesis/comments/i4qs1h/hindsight_is_2020_42_the_dividing_line/

Its just his personal theory but it actually sounds plausible.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 23, 2020, 09:05:46 AM
Cool thanks! I didn't catch in your post that it is just his theory but it does indeed sound plausible and with how little the band talks about this album, I can see it not being mentioned by them.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 23, 2020, 10:01:32 AM
That Reddit post is an interesting theory. I dont know that it makes the album better or not to order it that way. Personally, I always felt The Dividing Line was kind of well placed in the middle of the album. Its well, the dividing line. And it sets the tone for more upbeat second half pretty well. I also think One Mans Fool is a great closer, and it is a little hard to imagine it earlier in the album.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on November 23, 2020, 10:08:34 AM

I'll dig through the thread for CAS related stuff. It's awesome to rediscover an album that I've owned for 20 years but never gave a lot of time to...it's like getting a brand new Genesis album. About the fadeouts, someone on reddit made a great point that the album is meant to fade in/out like changing radio stations and that the tracklist was reordered at the last minute to make it more front-heavy with hits, thus ruining the changing radio station continuity. He suggested that the original tracklist began with Shipwrecked (due to the radio station noises in the intro) and ended with The Dividing Line because that's the only song with a non-fadeout ending. Not sure it matters to anyone, but it might give a little context as to what they were trying to achieve.

Holy shit! I've never heard this before. That makes me want to rearrange the tracklist and listen to it that way. If anyone can find out what the original track order was, please let me know.

Quote
His set looks mainly comprised of Genesis covers...I wonder if him and Hackett ever discussed doing a tour together?

Wilson has guested on a few songs with Hackett so it wouldn't be totally out of the question.

Holy shit that is so interesting  :omg: And I thought I knew most things to know about Genesis.

I think Ray Wilson and Steve Hackett touring together would be awesome, I would also love to know what would happen if they decided to write music together! But I think Ray mostly (mostly!) covers post-Hackett songs, and I doubt Steve would ever play those live.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on November 24, 2020, 03:14:18 PM

All but one ("Nowhere Else To Turn") are on the Congo, Shipwrecked and Not About Us CD singles.   Only the ones from "Not About Us" are on the 1983-1998 Box Set. That was odd; the remaining ones are the only b-sides they cut from the general release package.

I really wish they would release an all b-sides collection like the Pumpkins did with Aeroplane Flies High or The Cure with Join The Dots. I'm usually obsessive about getting b-sides from bands I love but for some reason I never tracked down a single Genesis one and the situation you describe is probably why...they're too scattered across different compilations and box sets.


I'm a b-sides guy, too, so don't get me started!   The Archive sets were supposed to do that, but they blinked and left off Me And Virgil and Match of the Day, and edited Submarine and It's Yourself.  Then the "big" box sets came out and they restored all the missing tracks, and used different edits of Submarine (to better approximate the original release, whose master was damaged).  But then they left off some of the CAS b-sides.    I used to scream for a b-sides collection from Gabriel and Collins, and FINALLY, this past year they released them digital only, which blows but is a start.  I don't get it; it's their music, and (some) fans want to buy it.

They just posted a cryptic instagram photo with the classic 5 member lineup so while a Gabriel reunion is always out of the question, maybe they're announcing a comprehensive b-sides collection??  :laugh:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on November 24, 2020, 03:15:55 PM
That Reddit post is an interesting theory. I dont know that it makes the album better or not to order it that way. Personally, I always felt The Dividing Line was kind of well placed in the middle of the album. Its well, the dividing line. And it sets the tone for more upbeat second half pretty well. I also think One Mans Fool is a great closer, and it is a little hard to imagine it earlier in the album.

Yeah, I don't think it will improve anything (and I agree that One Man's Fool sounds like a closing song) but it's interesting to see that maybe there was a deeper concept there that they attempted
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on November 28, 2020, 09:07:11 PM
Quote from: DTA link=topic=8111.msg2723896#msg2723896
[quote author=ytserush link=topic=8111.msg2723778#msg2723778 date=1605988416

I've always like Calling All Stations definitely more than We Can't Dance and probably more than Invisible Touch.
Quote
At this point, I think I like it better than those two as well (and probably also Trespass, ATTW3, and Foxtrot)



Although I have them, I really don't listen to the Gabriel years. Genesis really doesn't begin for me until A Trick Of The Tail so I'd much rather listen to Calling All Stations more than anything from the Gabriel years.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on November 29, 2020, 03:26:47 AM
Quote from: DTA link=topic=8111.msg2723896#msg2723896
[quote author=ytserush link=topic=8111.msg2723778#msg2723778 date=1605988416

I've always like Calling All Stations definitely more than We Can't Dance and probably more than Invisible Touch.
Quote
At this point, I think I like it better than those two as well (and probably also Trespass, ATTW3, and Foxtrot)



Although I have them, I really don't listen to the Gabriel years. Genesis really doesn't begin for me until A Trick Of The Tail so I'd much rather listen to Calling All Stations more than anything from the Gabriel years.

I've NEVER heard this opinion before  :lol
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 05, 2020, 11:23:26 AM
Quote from: DTA link=topic=8111.msg2723896#msg2723896
[quote author=ytserush link=topic=8111.msg2723778#msg2723778 date=1605988416

I've always like Calling All Stations definitely more than We Can't Dance and probably more than Invisible Touch.
Quote
At this point, I think I like it better than those two as well (and probably also Trespass, ATTW3, and Foxtrot)



Although I have them, I really don't listen to the Gabriel years. Genesis really doesn't begin for me until A Trick Of The Tail so I'd much rather listen to Calling All Stations more than anything from the Gabriel years.

I've NEVER heard this opinion before  :lol

Just never got those years. Still don't. Can't explain it. Maybe I would have had to have been there instead of getting into them at Duke.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DragonAttack on December 05, 2020, 10:53:56 PM
Well, you tend to be the one who always views things as 'partly cloudy' when others see the world as 'partly sunny'.

To be honest, I had 'heard' Genesis, went to a concert during the 'Wind and Wuthering' tour, but didn't get 'into' them until a laser light quadrophonic show in East Lansing of '...And Then There Were Three'.  Mind blowing.  Nothing will top that experience.  A few years later, I got ahold of some of the Gabriel era LPs.  Not all the tracks are my cup of tea, but the ones that were ...well... I guess, to each their own.

To be honest, Dream Theater didn't begin until 'Images & Words', even though I didn't know of the band until 'Six Degrees'.  The older albums resonated with me. Some fans here love this, love that, hate this, hate that.....

Oddly....some Queen fans don't like their 70's releases, and some Beatle fans don't like Sergeant Pepper onward, whilst others don't like the releases before 'Rubber Soul' or 'Revolver'.

Darn, I'm arguing against myself here. ;)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 12, 2020, 08:18:39 PM
Well, you tend to be the one who always views things as 'partly cloudy' when others see the world as 'partly sunny'.

To be honest, I had 'heard' Genesis, went to a concert during the 'Wind and Wuthering' tour, but didn't get 'into' them until a laser light quadrophonic show in East Lansing of '...And Then There Were Three'.  Mind blowing.  Nothing will top that experience.  A few years later, I got ahold of some of the Gabriel era LPs.  Not all the tracks are my cup of tea, but the ones that were ...well... I guess, to each their own.

To be honest, Dream Theater didn't begin until 'Images & Words', even though I didn't know of the band until 'Six Degrees'.  The older albums resonated with me. Some fans here love this, love that, hate this, hate that.....

Oddly....some Queen fans don't like their 70's releases, and some Beatle fans don't like Sergeant Pepper onward, whilst others don't like the releases before 'Rubber Soul' or 'Revolver'.

Darn, I'm arguing against myself here. ;)

I tend to think I'm more realistic/ fatalistic rather than "partly cloudy" but there could be an element of that. I won't say I dislike every song from the Gabriel years.

Oddly enough I do like "I Know What I Like" and the title track to "Lamb" and probably a few others. The weird part is if I hear a cover of a Gabriel-Genesis song live I tend to like it more than not.

Favorite Dream Theater albums for me are When Dream And Day Unite, Six Degrees, Octavarium and perhaps The Astonishing so I'm pretty spread out on that front and Queen too. It really depends on the album not when it was recorded.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on December 14, 2020, 06:52:03 AM
Different albums, but I'm with Ytserush here; I kind of tend to not follow the trends.   

Huge Genesis fan - huge - but I'll take Abacab over any of the Gabriel albums (except MAYBE The Lamb).   Wind and Wuthering and Duke as well.   People seem to love "Selling England..." but Cinema Show is the only essential song on there (I like Firth Of Fifth, but the intro is the only reason I ever listen to the studio version). 

Dream Theater, Images and Words is my favorite (that's when I got into the band) but I'd take Octavarium over anything else.

Queen starts and ends with Queen II, but A Kind Of Magic is a top three Queen album; either Works or Innuendo is third.   If it wasn't for The Prophets Song, I'm not sure I would ever listen to A Night At The Opera.   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 25, 2020, 10:12:36 AM
One for the Vine is amazing, my favorite from that album and one of my favorites overall.  I have a sheet music book with the two '76 albums (A Trick of the Tale and Wind & Wuthering) and was frustrated -- but not surprised -- that those wonderful instrumental breaks weren't transcribed.  So I worked them up myself.  Spent hours in the piano room in my dorm hall, and eventually came up with a 10-minute performance piece, One for the Vine arranged for solo piano.

Orbert, I'd love to hear that sometime.  Is it on tape/video?

My son was at work, and my wife and daughter were grocery shopping for today's festivities.  That just left me, the piano, and a fairly large quantity of what is now legal in the State of Illinois.  I considered whether to record it "cold" (I haven't played in a weeks) or run through it once to warm up.  I decided to run through it once.  This was a mistake.  It's a ten-minute song, so by the second time through, I was already exhausted.  The first take was better, fewer fuck-ups.  But here it is, warts and all, live from Orbert's basement mess studio.

Orbert playing the piano - LOL (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOVxGq5XoqM)

I've heard that YouTube is totally cracking down on copyright infringements and shit these days.  I tried to obscure the name of the band, album, and song, but foolishly didn't change the title of the video itself, so maybe that's how it got flagged less than ten minutes after I uploaded it.  We'll see how long it stays there.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: LudwigVan on December 25, 2020, 04:25:43 PM
Nice! 👍
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on December 25, 2020, 05:49:55 PM
Nicely done, Orbert.  Hardly noticed any clams!

Hearing that song on piano really brings out Tonys knack for interesting chord progressions and how he voiced them.  His playing can be very lush and has a certain romanticism about it. For some reason, the word Pastoral comes to mind.  I would argue that Tonys harmonic sense was the best of any of the classic Prog keyboardists. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 25, 2020, 09:30:50 PM
Thanks!  Tony is my favorite prog composer.  He doesn't just write songs, but with a lot of his stuff, you can hear how it started with a piano composition that evolved into something else, something more.  His neoclassical stuff is full of those amazing chord changes, except we get to hear them played by a symphony orchestra.  Just amazing stuff.

A few pretty obvious f-ups, but two or three in a ten-minute piece isn't too bad.  Good enough for live music.  I suppose that's the difference between real virtuosos and mere mortals such as myself.  There are guys that play three-hour concerts every night, and every single note is perfect.  Those guys also practice hours and hours every day and are actually part man, part machine.  I can't do that.  I would come to resent the one activity I truly do for fun, and I won't spoil it for myself.  That's the real reason why there aren't any recordings of me playing.  I'm always gonna f-up here and there.  But since I'd recorded it anyway, I figured WTF.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on December 25, 2020, 10:24:19 PM
Very cool, Orbert.

I love the way Banks writes. Even some of the simpler ballads have really cool chord sequences (Taking it All Too Hard is one that comes to mind).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on December 26, 2020, 10:32:21 AM
All of the above, times two.    And add that compositional skill to that lovely sound he gets - I don't know "keyboards" or "pianos" so I don't know what he's playing, but it's that "electric-y piano sound" that was all over the W&W/Duke/Abacab period - and I can listen to all day.

LOVE LOVE LOVE how you worked in that ascending run (about 2:30 in); so subtle, but it's presence makes that section come alive.  I also liked how you did the buildup at 5:30 or so on just the piano.  Really tasteful.

Is there symbolic meaning to the light bulb?  Nuggetz?  (It IS a prog site we're on, after all!!!).  :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 26, 2020, 11:03:59 AM
Thanks.  The ascending Ab run is very important to that section, and it was one of the things I knew I had to include.  And as mentioned elsewhere, this was all back when I was young and fearless, so it was just a matter of taking the time to figure it out.  The big instrumental break around five minutes in took a while, too.  So many key changes, so many chords.  Tony is such a genius.  When I hear his music, I'm not content to just listen to it.  I want to play it!

No particular meaning to the light bulb.  A few feet to the right of the piano (more or less where my phonecam was set up), is the access to our crawlspace.  There's a single light fixture in there, and I had to replace the bulb a few years ago.  As I crawled out of the crawlspace, I grabbed the side of the piano to pull myself up because I'm getting old and creaky.  I set the bulb down there to dust myself off.  As I said, that was a few years ago.  Now that I think about it, maybe more like five.  There's a photo sitting near it, next to the music stand; it's my daughter, taken when she was three years old, climbing a fence or something.  She's 22 now.  But I like that picture.

Some people's houses look like they could be movie or TV sets.  Nice art on the walls, matched furniture, everything clean and tidy.  Our house is the opposite of that.  It looks "lived in".  There are things that someone set down somewhere, meaning to get to it eventually, and it's still there.  Hat or gloves by the front door, still there in the middle of summer.  A book on a table.  No actual garbage or leftover food; everyone has their line and that's mine.  You don't leave wrappers or a half-eaten bowl of pasta sitting.  Take care of that shit.  But pretty much anything else, if you put it down somewhere, it's not someone else's job to put it away for you, so usually it just sits.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 26, 2020, 04:11:25 PM
One for the Vine is amazing, my favorite from that album and one of my favorites overall.  I have a sheet music book with the two '76 albums (A Trick of the Tale and Wind & Wuthering) and was frustrated -- but not surprised -- that those wonderful instrumental breaks weren't transcribed.  So I worked them up myself.  Spent hours in the piano room in my dorm hall, and eventually came up with a 10-minute performance piece, One for the Vine arranged for solo piano.

Orbert, I'd love to hear that sometime.  Is it on tape/video?

My son was at work, and my wife and daughter were grocery shopping for today's festivities.  That just left me, the piano, and a fairly large quantity of what is now legal in the State of Illinois.  I considered whether to record it "cold" (I haven't played in a weeks) or run through it once to warm up.  I decided to run through it once.  This was a mistake.  It's a ten-minute song, so by the second time through, I was already exhausted.  The first take was better, fewer fuck-ups.  But here it is, warts and all, live from Orbert's basement mess studio.

Orbert playing the piano - LOL (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOVxGq5XoqM)

I've heard that YouTube is totally cracking down on copyright infringements and shit these days.  I tried to obscure the name of the band, album, and song, but foolishly didn't change the title of the video itself, so maybe that's how it got flagged less than ten minutes after I uploaded it.  We'll see how long it stays there.

Great stuff! Thanks! Just had Three Sides Live (Well Four Sides Live. It was the 94 Remaster Disc Two) in the car earlier today so this was a nice surprise.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on December 27, 2020, 09:14:45 AM
That's a beautiful version Orbert and I completely agree with you on the assessment of Tony's compositional genius. I think no one jumps through keys like Tony does. Very well arranged and played by you! I think your version showcases just how complex Tony's compositions are. His approach to harmony progressions and arrangements of functions of notes within chords is unmatched in the music world in my opinion. He is also a master of arpeggios (Can-Utility!)

I wish I was as good a pianist as you are, I would love to learn this, but I'm a guitarist and my piano skills suck. It took months for me to learn the Firth Of Fifth intro on piano, but I wanted to be able to play this since it's one of my favorite songs of all time. Then, I rearranged the song into a 3 or 4 minute solo piano piece. I inserted another chord at the end of intro to lead into the part starting at 3:26 (of the original) and played the flute solo in octaves with the right hand while the left played the bass arpeggios. The song usually leads into the full band version of the intro, but of course I just repeated the regular intro and had the song end on what sounds like the tonic chord (but let's be honest, Tony's compositions are so complex sometimes that no one can be 100% sure where the tonal center is  :lol ). Maybe I'll relearn it and post a video here - though of course it's not nearly as well thought out as your Vine version (again, I'm a guitarist).

Now I have to revisit the late-70s albums by Genesis! Very under appreciated in my opinion, everyone always talks about the Gabriel albums, but Trick and Wind are just as good, if not even better. Collins also stepped up his game for these albums. His playing here was phenomenal. Just listen to ...In That Quiet Earth, holy shit. I think I'm gonna listen to Wind & Wuthering now.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on December 28, 2020, 09:13:49 AM
There are a couple bands like this, of course, including our host band, but one of the things I love about Genesis is how multi-layered they are.  They can be both visceral and cerebral, sometimes all at the same time.

If I'm in the mood for introspective piano melodies... check.  If I'm in the mood for some emotive, powerful, propulsive drumming, check.  If I'm in the mood for an ear-worm melody that I can hum for days, check.  If I'm in the mood for...  you get the idea.  I can either listen analytically, or just lose myself in the music as an atmosphere, and it doesn't matter.   Pretty much that's why Wind And Wuthering is one of my favorite albums of all time.   A band like Kiss - who I love, you all know that - is almost exclusively a "feel" band; they hit the spot when I'm interested in just losing myself to a vibe; I don't think I've ever put on a Kiss song becasue "I want to hear that particular drum part", or because "the melodic composition is emotive in and of itself".   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on December 28, 2020, 10:17:26 AM
Listened to Trick and W&W earlier this morning, and now I'm on Seconds Out.  I think my favorite aspect of these albums is how driven they were to prove they were more than just Peter Gabriel's backing band, Tony in particular.  I don't think songs like Mad Man Moon and One for the Vine would have happened if PG was still in the band, and those end up being two of my favorite Genesis tunes. 

On another note, I don't know how many in this thread are also Frost* fans, but Jem Godfrey has clearly done his homework when it comes to Tony Banks.  Check out the instrumental "A Nice Day For It" from their album Falling Satellites.  Brilliantly calls back to Duke's Travels in particular, but very Banksian in its approach.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Great Zo on December 28, 2020, 10:47:34 AM
On another note, I don't know how many in this thread are also Frost* fans, but Jem Godfrey has clearly done his homework when it comes to Tony Banks.  Check out the instrumental "A Nice Day For It" from their album Falling Satellites.  Brilliantly calls back to Duke's Travels in particular, but very Banksian in its approach.

Yep, Jem confirmed it in an interview (https://grendelhq.wordpress.com/2016/05/25/iris-interviews-jem-godfrey-frost/) in 2016 too. Excerpt:
Quote
Iris: Who are your biggest influences, and can you hear them on the new album?

Jem:  Well yeah, theres a Tony Banks moment in the track Nice Day For It. Genesis split up and Tony Banks is retired now. I was impressed by that because a lot of bands, in generally, dont know when to stop. What I really like about Genesis is that they said Ok, thats enough. I know that Tony lives in Surrey and hes quite keen on gardening, apparently. Hes got a few quid in the bank and keeping himself to himself, and I thought to myself Thats what I want to do, I want to be like Tony Banks when Im 65/70. Because we might never hear from him again musically, that bit in Nice Day For It became my little musical thank you. I think the rest of the music is a mash-up of the things I listened to in the last thirty years I suppose.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on December 28, 2020, 11:25:45 AM
On another note, I don't know how many in this thread are also Frost* fans, but Jem Godfrey has clearly done his homework when it comes to Tony Banks.  Check out the instrumental "A Nice Day For It" from their album Falling Satellites.  Brilliantly calls back to Duke's Travels in particular, but very Banksian in its approach.

Yep, Jem confirmed it in an interview (https://grendelhq.wordpress.com/2016/05/25/iris-interviews-jem-godfrey-frost/) in 2016 too. Excerpt:
Quote
Iris: Who are your biggest influences, and can you hear them on the new album?

Jem:  Well yeah, theres a Tony Banks moment in the track Nice Day For It. Genesis split up and Tony Banks is retired now. I was impressed by that because a lot of bands, in generally, dont know when to stop. What I really like about Genesis is that they said Ok, thats enough. I know that Tony lives in Surrey and hes quite keen on gardening, apparently. Hes got a few quid in the bank and keeping himself to himself, and I thought to myself Thats what I want to do, I want to be like Tony Banks when Im 65/70. Because we might never hear from him again musically, that bit in Nice Day For It became my little musical thank you. I think the rest of the music is a mash-up of the things I listened to in the last thirty years I suppose.

Well, I guess the band is not that consequent after all  ;)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: MinistroRaven on January 08, 2021, 08:21:18 AM
Steve Hackett album review by my great friend: Bernard Romero: https://lotsofmuzik.com/steve-hackett-under-a-mediterranean-sky-review/ enoy it!

 :metal
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: emtee on January 10, 2021, 12:09:07 PM
Listening to Foxtrot now as I write. Supper's Ready is just...amazing. I love it when music I've heard hundreds of times previously can still move me so deeply.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on January 16, 2021, 06:05:40 PM
Listening to Foxtrot now as I write. Supper's Ready is just...amazing. I love it when music I've heard hundreds of times previously can still move me so deeply.

That's been my experience with the '76 to '83 era.  Never gets old.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on January 17, 2021, 10:54:38 AM
Listening to Foxtrot now as I write. Supper's Ready is just...amazing. I love it when music I've heard hundreds of times previously can still move me so deeply.

That's been my experience with the '76 to '83 era.  Never gets old.

Boom.  I just randomly put on the audio from the Mama Tour (at Wembley) and same thing.   Just got transported...
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on January 17, 2021, 10:43:25 PM
Listening to Foxtrot now as I write. Supper's Ready is just...amazing. I love it when music I've heard hundreds of times previously can still move me so deeply.

Supper's Ready is one of those songs that have the exact same effect on me. I think Genesis of all artists I know have the most songs that do that. Other songs like this are Mad Man Moon, Can-Utility, Burning Rope, Firth Of Fifth (duh), Dancing With The Moonlit Knight and especially One For The Vine. Among others of course. Thanks for reminding me what a masterpiece One For The Vine is, Orbert ;)  Whenever I hear those songs closely, I can't believe what those lads were able to compose.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on January 18, 2021, 12:19:31 PM
To me, that's the essence of the early Genesis catalog.  They were not just songs, but compositions, approached in a very musical way and in many places with the lyrics added literally as an afterthought.  They tended to write the music first, and there are stories from both Tony Banks and Steve Hackett about being a bit disppointed that Peter Gabriel started singing over parts that they thought were instrumental.  It was more diplomatic than that (I don't recall exactly, but perhaps the word "surprised" was used instead of "disappointed" or something like that).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on January 18, 2021, 01:21:14 PM
Sorry if it's a repeat, but while I agree with both of you in terms of the "compositional skills", I think the period following Gabriel's exit through, say, Abacab, was the sweetest spot for pure composition.  I think the early stuff got too compromised amongst the band, and after the self-titled, the process changed (to the "jam" as source of material).   But some of those mid-period songs - One For The Vine, All In A Mouse's Night, Me And Sarah Jane, the instrumental suite on W&W, Cul-de-sac - are compositional tours de force.   Perhaps more concise than something like "Battle Of Epping Forest", but well-thought out nonetheless.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on January 18, 2021, 01:56:44 PM
Me And Sarah Jane is probably one of the most interesting songs from a compositional standpoint Tony ever wrote. It progresses in such a unique way that no other song of theirs really does imo. Add in the awesomeness that is Dodo and Keep It Dark and you have probably my favorite album of theirs (tied with The Lamb)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on January 18, 2021, 02:08:48 PM
To me, that's the essence of the early Genesis catalog.  They were not just songs, but compositions, approached in a very musical way and in many places with the lyrics added literally as an afterthought.  They tended to write the music first, and there are stories from both Tony Banks and Steve Hackett about being a bit disppointed that Peter Gabriel started singing over parts that they thought were instrumental.  It was more diplomatic than that (I don't recall exactly, but perhaps the word "surprised" was used instead of "disappointed" or something like that).

I recall reading about this with regards to "Epping Forest", as well as bits of The Lamb. I think at first, it wasn't an issue (during the Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot years), but it slowly became an issue when it seemed like Peter and the others were almost two separate entities, where the band would write the music without Peter's input, and then he would write his lyrics over their music (without much input from the band). It's been a long long time since I've read any Genesis history though, so I could be remembering things a bit wrong.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on January 18, 2021, 02:41:20 PM
To me, that's the essence of the early Genesis catalog.  They were not just songs, but compositions, approached in a very musical way and in many places with the lyrics added literally as an afterthought.  They tended to write the music first, and there are stories from both Tony Banks and Steve Hackett about being a bit disppointed that Peter Gabriel started singing over parts that they thought were instrumental.  It was more diplomatic than that (I don't recall exactly, but perhaps the word "surprised" was used instead of "disappointed" or something like that).

I recall reading about this with regards to "Epping Forest", as well as bits of The Lamb. I think at first, it wasn't an issue (during the Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot years), but it slowly became an issue when it seemed like Peter and the others were almost two separate entities, where the band would write the music without Peter's input, and then he would write his lyrics over their music (without much input from the band). It's been a long long time since I've read any Genesis history though, so I could be remembering things a bit wrong.

-Marc.

I think the most famous example is Apocalypse in 9/8 where Gabriel comes in with 666. Banks was not happy that Pete interfered with his climactic moment. Im not sure how it would have come out if he didnt jump back in there. Ultimately, Banks has admitted it was better that he did.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on January 18, 2021, 03:08:16 PM
Sometimes it works really well, sometimes maybe not so well but it still works.  It's hard to say because we're so used to hearing those parts with the vocals; you have to really cop a different mindset and listen to the music and mentally filter out the vocals.

There's a clip of Genesis in 1976 doing "Fly on a Windshield" as an instrumental.  I recognized it, but since I only ever listen to The Lamb all at once, I wasn't sure which "song" it was.  Then we got to the part where the vocals would come in and they didn't and I realized what piece it was.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on January 28, 2021, 06:09:04 AM
They've posted a short rehearsal teaser for the upcoming tour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CPqRQI7Vjo
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on January 28, 2021, 06:41:10 AM
They've posted a short rehearsal teaser for the upcoming tour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CPqRQI7Vjo

I think the band sounds fantastic! I hope Phil can keep up.

I'm kinda bummed out though that there is so much bitterness in the comments of Genesis' FB posts. I for one am looking forward to the concert in Glasgow (never been there!) in October and I hope it won't be postponed again.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on January 28, 2021, 06:47:36 AM
Nicholas looks/sounds like hell fill his dads shoes nicely. No Chester for this tour? I guess hes not necessary without Phil juggling drum and singing duties.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on January 28, 2021, 06:51:38 AM
Nicholas looks/sounds like hell fill his dads shoes nicely. No Chester for this tour? I guess hes not necessary without Phil juggling drum and singing duties.

It was never considered to include Chester I think. AFAIK he is semi-retired/playing in a local jazz band and apparently fine with that  ;)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on January 28, 2021, 07:13:14 AM
What do you guys think the setlist will look like? Pretty much the same as the 2007 tour? No surprises?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on January 28, 2021, 07:32:15 AM
What do you guys think the setlist will look like? Pretty much the same as the 2007 tour? No surprises?

There was some talk about White Mountain, because of the red-eyed wolf on the screen round the 20 second mark of the teaser. That would be a big surprise imo. Plus, it doesn't have that big of a range, so I think it would be possible for Phil so sing.

I used to only like 70s Genesis, but I've grown to absolutely love their 80s stuff as well, so I'm fine with whatever they play (yes I admit it, I'm a total fanboy). I would love some surprises of course, though I don't think we'll hear anything like Dance On A Volcano, Down & Out, In That Quiet Earth or Can-Utility. Cul-de-Sac would be impossible for Phil to sing. I'd love something mellow from their earlier days though, like The Lamia, the mentioned White Mountain, Seven Stones or the masterful Burning Rope (which weirdly is never being talked about when Banks' composing is discussed). I think the main part of the concert will consist of songs like Domino, Throwing, No Son, Home By The Sea, Follow Me, songs from the Duke Suite. And I'm fine with that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on January 28, 2021, 07:36:06 AM
I know Duchess will be included, and obviously Behind The Lines/Dukes Travels based on the clip. Probably very similar to 2007 otherwise though Im hoping they throw in some rarities (nothing crazy even - just some underplayed stuff from the 3-man era like Dodo, Keep It Dark, Living Forever, or anything from side B of Shapes would be cool)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on January 28, 2021, 08:06:03 AM
I know Duchess will be included, and obviously Behind The Lines/Dukes Travels based on the clip. Probably very similar to 2007 otherwise though Im hoping they throw in some rarities (nothing crazy even - just some underplayed stuff from the 3-man era like Dodo, Keep It Dark, Living Forever, or anything from side B of Shapes would be cool)

How do you know Duchess will be included? They might as well play the whole Duke Suite in the right order, like they did on the Duke tour!  :metal

I think out of the songs you mentioned, I'd love to hear It's Gonna Get Better. That song is a very under appreciated gem. And it includes Banks' characteristically weird harmonies and even some polyrhythms.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on January 28, 2021, 09:34:58 AM
^^ There's an extended version on one of the singles (Mama, maybe?) that's worth having. 

I think it's setting the bar a bit too high to expect anything radically different than 2007, since 2007 itself wasn't radically different than that which came for the twenty years before that (though it was a very balanced set, IMO).  You may get a swap-out for Ripples, and you may get an added insert on the In The Cage medley, but I wouldn't expect their first gigs in 14 years to be pushing too many envelopes, especially with Nicholas on the cans (no matter how good he is).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on January 28, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
I know Duchess will be included, and obviously Behind The Lines/Dukes Travels based on the clip. Probably very similar to 2007 otherwise though Im hoping they throw in some rarities (nothing crazy even - just some underplayed stuff from the 3-man era like Dodo, Keep It Dark, Living Forever, or anything from side B of Shapes would be cool)

How do you know Duchess will be included? They might as well play the whole Duke Suite in the right order, like they did on the Duke tour!  :metal

I think out of the songs you mentioned, I'd love to hear It's Gonna Get Better. That song is a very under appreciated gem. And it includes Banks' characteristically weird harmonies and even some polyrhythms.

Tony mentioned its inclusion for this tour in some interview I read months ago (its his favorite Genesis song too I believe). Obviously things change and songs get dropped so thats always a possibility but I think well see it this time around.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 18, 2021, 10:00:46 AM
Really cool podcast interview with Mike Rutherford here:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rockonteurs-with-gary-kemp-and-guy-pratt/id1530701242

Just discovered this series with Guy Pratt (bass for Pink Floyd, Toy Matinee, various sessions) and Gary Kemp (Spandau Ballet). Theyve interviewed a bunch of interesting artists (Jon Bon Jovi, Roland Orzebal, Billy Corgan, Alice Cooper), but this is the first one Ive checked out. A lot of discussion about the early days of Genesis and how the band sort of developed their style and sound. Also some Mike + The Mechanics discussion, as well as some talk about the current Genesis reunion tour. Just a very nice, causal conversation.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on April 19, 2021, 02:44:46 PM
Todd Suchermann was sharing this on FB:

Genesis live, Paris Bataclan 1973 long version, 16mm master in 4k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qMsr7jjQF0&ab_channel=ikhnaton)

The quality is pretty amazing!

Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 19, 2021, 02:57:47 PM
Todd Suchermann was sharing this on FB:

Genesis live, Paris Bataclan 1973 long version, 16mm master in 4k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qMsr7jjQF0&ab_channel=ikhnaton)

The quality is pretty amazing!

Saw a little bit of this but havent had a chance to watch it all yet. The picture is amazing though!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 19, 2021, 03:17:27 PM
I watched some of that the other day.  Horrible cut removing half of Supper's Ready (including Apocalype in 9/8) and jumping suddenly to the end.  I switched to something else at that point.  Why have a "long version" if you're gonna chop up the songs anyway?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: frogprog on April 19, 2021, 03:21:19 PM
Wow! That is amazing footage. They were so young!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on April 19, 2021, 06:42:22 PM
it is pretty amazing how it was restored, however the film itself has been a well-circulated bootleg for ages.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 19, 2021, 06:51:43 PM
A portion of it was on the 2008 box set, no?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: XeRocks81 on April 19, 2021, 07:29:57 PM
the footage isn't new but it has never looked this good,  It's unbelievable.  Streamed it to a 4K OLED tv and my jaw was on the floor the whole time. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on April 19, 2021, 09:54:24 PM
Am I missing something?  Who cares how good the video looks if they butcher the audio?  It's not like we've never seen early footage of Genesis before.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on April 29, 2021, 11:23:17 AM
https://www.genesis-music.com/

Last Domino Tour coming to North America this Fall.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on April 29, 2021, 11:25:59 AM
Not going to miss this.  I was mad that I missed them in 2007.  They are the only one of my favorite bands I haven't seen live.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: King Postwhore on April 29, 2021, 12:26:04 PM
Wife wants to go.  I saw them on the Invisible Touch tour.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on April 29, 2021, 01:58:07 PM
ZERO WEST COAST DATES????  :angry:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 29, 2021, 02:30:31 PM
Wife wants to go.  I saw them on the Invisible Touch tour.

I saw that tour as well.  I thought it was amazing.

Romdrums, I can't speak to how they'll be now, at 70 and with Phil in a straightjacket or whatever, but their music translates so well live.

I think I'm going to try to see this at MSG in NY.  The sound there is so solid.

EDIT:  Wow, Tony is finally starting to look his age a bit.  The guy has looked "42" for the last 30 something years, and he's finally starting to seem, well, older than me!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on April 29, 2021, 03:10:26 PM
Wow, definitely gonna try to make Philly happen.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 29, 2021, 03:15:18 PM
Not a concert guy to begin with, but I cant say Im all that interested in seeing them at this point. I do think its cool that Nick is getting to do this with his dad though. They should get Simon to come do the double drummer thing with him.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on April 29, 2021, 07:59:21 PM
I'd consider going if they were coming to STL, even though going to a concert where the singer has to sit in a chair because he is too old to stand sounds kinda boring, but there is no way I will travel for this. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: OpenYourEyes311 on April 29, 2021, 11:03:10 PM
Boston ending the tour. I'm pretty emotional about this. I got into these guys over 10 years ago and never thought I'd get the chance to see them. And now I get the chance to see the possible final show? I cannot wait. Gonna be a long year. Hoping to stay spoiler free, which is gonna be tough.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on April 30, 2021, 08:52:21 AM
Nick is the wild card here.   No offense to him, but he's the unknown.   Even if Phil is in a chair, he's not Bruce Dickinson.   This is a drum-centric band, though, especially up through the self-titled.   Can he carry a band of this stature?  I don't know.   I know I personally lament the lack of the double-drumming aspect (one of my two favorite things about Genesis, the other being Tony Banks), but that's offset by seeing them in an arena.  I'm not a stadium guy, so the allure of seeing them in the Garden, is STRONG, even if the band is not at the level of sharpness they were in 1987 when I saw them last.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on April 30, 2021, 09:26:15 AM
Would've been nice to have Simon Collins along as well.  He's a solid drummer, and seeing Phil's kids do a drum duet would be pretty cool.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 30, 2021, 10:35:37 AM
I will say, I was really impressed by Nic in this interview. He knows his stuff and seems super poised to be performing at this level at his age. I think hell be able to handle the material just fine from what snippets Ive seen of him playing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx2MVwFO6jQ
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lupton on April 30, 2021, 12:00:37 PM
Nic will be fine. I wouldn't be surprised if he plays the music closer to the record than Chester ever did. Tony's still got his chops. Daryl does this stuff for a living. Mike'll probably settle in as the tour goes on.

The only "wildcard" I see here is Phil -- as the only guy in this group that notably struggles to capture a semblance of his old self. Also, as the focus of attention, his performance could either make or break the gig...and let's face reality; most of the people paying to see this show will be only familiar with the 80s hits -- many with the all too common view that Genesis is merely Phil's backing band.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 08, 2021, 08:57:15 PM
I watched some of that the other day.  Horrible cut removing half of Supper's Ready (including Apocalype in 9/8) and jumping suddenly to the end.  I switched to something else at that point.  Why have a "long version" if you're gonna chop up the songs anyway?

That was weird, wasn't it?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 08, 2021, 09:08:09 PM
Not a concert guy to begin with, but I cant say Im all that interested in seeing them at this point. I do think its cool that Nick is getting to do this with his dad though. They should get Simon to come do the double drummer thing with him.

I felt that way back in '86 (Probably should have seen them then though based on most of the DVD." Non-starter as far as I'm concerned. Can't see a scenario where I would even like half of the set.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on May 09, 2021, 04:24:17 AM
Ticket buying process was a fiasco. I got 11th row and a friend that happened to be logged in around the same time got worse seats and paid 1/3 more for them.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on May 09, 2021, 08:11:26 AM
It is gonna be awful when trying to get tickets for any mainstream artist in the next few years, even worse than before. TM and Live Nation already love to gouge their customers, and after a year and a change of seeing their revenue stream coming to a screeching halt, they need to play catch-up and sticking it to concert-goers will be goal number 1. And I don't expect most artists to do anything meaningful to stop them from doing it. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on May 09, 2021, 12:49:24 PM
It is gonna be awful when trying to get tickets for any mainstream artist in the next few years, even worse than before. TM and Live Nation already love to gouge their customers, and after a year and a change of seeing their revenue stream coming to a screeching halt, they need to play catch-up and sticking it to concert-goers will be goal number 1. And I don't expect most artists to do anything meaningful to stop them from doing it.

They did a fan presale where you had to verify you're a real person several (stressful) times by sending codes to your phone. I guess this helped weed out bots and scalpers. I almost don't mind paying an inflated amount to ticketmaster (as much as I hate their guts) as opposed to paying some slimeballs that don't even give you a chance to get good seats without going on the black market.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Trav86 on May 09, 2021, 01:06:23 PM
When it comes to these types of concerts, its the one time I hate living in Texas.  North America = East Coast + a couple of Canadian cities.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 16, 2021, 03:43:23 PM
It is gonna be awful when trying to get tickets for any mainstream artist in the next few years, even worse than before. TM and Live Nation already love to gouge their customers, and after a year and a change of seeing their revenue stream coming to a screeching halt, they need to play catch-up and sticking it to concert-goers will be goal number 1. And I don't expect most artists to do anything meaningful to stop them from doing it.

I looked into getting Zebra and Oysterhead tickets (two different shows) but I was done playing their games even before Covid. It sucks, but it looks like I'm done.
The process to reach my enjoyment level just isn't there anymore.  Maybe it's an age thing now but at this point I'll have more fun just walking into club or small theater and just hear some good music without that process.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on May 17, 2021, 01:24:00 PM
Zebra as in Randy Jackson, "Take Your Fingers From My Hair" Zebra?  I can't believe that's a high-price ticket.
Oysterhead as in Stewart Copeland, Les Claypool Oysterhead?   That's another I can't believe is an impossible ticket.  They played Toad's Place, a 750 seat club when they came around in '01.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on May 23, 2021, 09:26:50 AM
Zebra as in Randy Jackson, "Take Your Fingers From My Hair" Zebra?  I can't believe that's a high-price ticket.
Oysterhead as in Stewart Copeland, Les Claypool Oysterhead?   That's another I can't believe is an impossible ticket.  They played Toad's Place, a 750 seat club when they came around in '01.

You would think that, but Zebra is playing the Westbury Music Fair (Ticketbastard has billed a 40th Anniversary show) Only gig as far as I can tell. They don't really do traditional tours anymore and Oysterhead is headlining a jam band festival in Scranton on 4th of July Weekend which was supposed to happen last year. My problem. I get it. Just done with the games is all.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Harmony on September 09, 2021, 04:57:06 PM
So no comments on the documentary yet?  It isn't the finished product and has some glitches but I found it very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPSpxCnVgTM


Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 10, 2021, 07:58:52 AM
I'm still watching it - not going to lie; it's hard to see Phil like that - but quick question:  about 9:00, 9:30 there's music in the background and it sounds like Duchess, but I don't think it quite is.  Does anyone know if that's just an instrumental track of the actual song, or new music, or what?  (Needless to say, I'm LOVING that music). 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on September 10, 2021, 07:59:36 AM
Ooh nice, I'll watch it this weekend then.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Harmony on September 10, 2021, 08:22:26 AM
The first 3/4 had me feeling very sad to watch Phil.  His pitch is not great.  His dysarthria is hard to listen to.  I'm not surprised his range is limited given his age and the notes he has had to hit all of these decades.  Plus being stuck in a chair when he used to command the stage.  It's depressing.

But the last 1/4 changed my mind.  Domino especially was spectacular.  The band still sounds GREAT.  And Nic is a nice surprise.  What a chip off the old block.

Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on September 10, 2021, 08:29:00 AM
I'm still watching it - not going to lie; it's hard to see Phil like that - but quick question:  about 9:00, 9:30 there's music in the background and it sounds like Duchess, but I don't think it quite is.  Does anyone know if that's just an instrumental track of the actual song, or new music, or what?  (Needless to say, I'm LOVING that music).

Just listened, and that's definitely Duchess, just being played a little differently. Sounds pretty cool.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on September 10, 2021, 09:01:14 AM
So no comments on the documentary yet?  It isn't the finished product and has some glitches but I found it very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPSpxCnVgTM

I actually saw it on a private Vimeo link over the weekend. I liked it a lot, although it is not easy to watch Phil. But given i'm not seeing the tour (seeing The Monkees instead), this was a nice alternative.

Also this BBC featured was done the other day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7FgxKUrqGQ
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 10, 2021, 09:15:51 AM
I'm still watching it - not going to lie; it's hard to see Phil like that - but quick question:  about 9:00, 9:30 there's music in the background and it sounds like Duchess, but I don't think it quite is.  Does anyone know if that's just an instrumental track of the actual song, or new music, or what?  (Needless to say, I'm LOVING that music).

Just listened, and that's definitely Duchess, just being played a little differently. Sounds pretty cool.

I'm loving it (I'm loving ALL the background music so far).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on September 11, 2021, 05:03:24 PM
I'm still watching it - not going to lie; it's hard to see Phil like that - but quick question:  about 9:00, 9:30 there's music in the background and it sounds like Duchess, but I don't think it quite is.  Does anyone know if that's just an instrumental track of the actual song, or new music, or what?  (Needless to say, I'm LOVING that music).

Just listened, and that's definitely Duchess, just being played a little differently. Sounds pretty cool.

I noticed it about 7:00 minutes. In a way it kind of reminds me of Pete Townshend's e cola mix of Let My Love Open The Door.  Not that it sounds like that. But just the different arrangement.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 12, 2021, 09:36:25 AM
I wonder if they did this on purpose, but Phil's vocals get progressively and noticeably better as they move through the documentary.   I wonder if that's an acknowledgement of the work he's putting in or if it was just a by-product of the sequential nature of the discussion?   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lupton on September 12, 2021, 10:43:12 AM
I actually got depressed watching that PBS documentary. IIRC Throwing It All Away is the last tune, and it's the only one with anything approaching a passable vocal performance from Phil. Of course it's ruined with about 4 X the usual "Edddalaayeeeeaaaay!", "Eddalllaayyyeeeeaaay!" stuff than usual. I mean, it's nice to hear but they really fucking overdo it with that call and response stuff.

[edit: Wanted to add so I'm not a total downer - I thought the music sounded excellent! Nic's killing it as I knew he would. Tony sounds like 3 keyboard players at once. Great band.]
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sfam2112 on September 12, 2021, 03:58:00 PM
I wonder if they did this on purpose, but Phil's vocals get progressively and noticeably better as they move through the documentary.   I wonder if that's an acknowledgement of the work he's putting in or if it was just a by-product of the sequential nature of the discussion?   

I noticed that too. It was a bit depressing and discouraging hearing him sing "Turn It On Again" at the beginning and "That's All". But, I thought he turned in passable performances of "The Last Domino" and "Throwing It All Away". I think the only songs I noticed that weren't repeats from the '07 tour were "That's All" and "Duchess", if they worked them into the set. Which doesn't surprise me, really. But it was fun to watch them play the instrumental bit in "Cinema Show".

Off-topic, but a question for the guitar players. What tuning is "Turn it On Again" in? I watched the Genesis Songbook documentary and, when they're talking about Duke, Mike Rutherford plays the main riff (same key as the album) and it's clearly not standard tuning. All I've been able to make out for sure is his A is tuned to B. But it's not as simple as the tuning is just a whole step up. I can't figure it out. Anyone know?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on September 12, 2021, 06:05:10 PM
I couldn't past That's All (how fitting).  That was both painful and depressing to hear him try to sing that.  While I am sure the music and stage show will be great, I cannot imagine spend big bucks to hear Phil sing like that for 2+ hours.  To each their own.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: XeRocks81 on September 12, 2021, 08:33:35 PM
it's strange they all talk freely about Phil having health issues and building the show around his limitations and he says he has trouble hitting certain notes but at the same time it seems they're dancing around the fact that he LITERALLY HAS TROUBLE SPEAKING.  He can barely keep up with the tempo of the songs.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 13, 2021, 11:38:08 AM
I couldn't past That's All (how fitting).  That was both painful and depressing to hear him try to sing that.  While I am sure the music and stage show will be great, I cannot imagine spend big bucks to hear Phil sing like that for 2+ hours.  To each their own.

Maybe it's the bands I listen to, but I can get past the vocals for two hours.  For me, as good as Nick is (and he nailed the In The Cage medley part I like so much) it's the lack of the double drums.  That was always what made Genesis special to me (that and Tony, but he's there).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on September 13, 2021, 12:19:08 PM
I couldn't past That's All (how fitting).  That was both painful and depressing to hear him try to sing that.  While I am sure the music and stage show will be great, I cannot imagine spend big bucks to hear Phil sing like that for 2+ hours.  To each their own.

Maybe it's the bands I listen to, but I can get past the vocals for two hours.  For me, as good as Nick is (and he nailed the In The Cage medley part I like so much) it's the lack of the double drums.  That was always what made Genesis special to me (that and Tony, but he's there).

I get that a large part of this whole thing is Phil wanting to let Nick get a chance to get the Genesis experience, but it would have been really cool to have Simon on drums as well. That would allow them to do the double drummer thing, and he could even cover some of the vocal sections for his dad since his voice is similar.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 14, 2021, 07:42:02 AM
I couldn't past That's All (how fitting).  That was both painful and depressing to hear him try to sing that.  While I am sure the music and stage show will be great, I cannot imagine spend big bucks to hear Phil sing like that for 2+ hours.  To each their own.

Maybe it's the bands I listen to, but I can get past the vocals for two hours.  For me, as good as Nick is (and he nailed the In The Cage medley part I like so much) it's the lack of the double drums.  That was always what made Genesis special to me (that and Tony, but he's there).

I get that a large part of this whole thing is Phil wanting to let Nick get a chance to get the Genesis experience, but it would have been really cool to have Simon on drums as well. That would allow them to do the double drummer thing, and he could even cover some of the vocal sections for his dad since his voice is similar.

WOW, I never thought of that.  I was thinking "have Chester there", but I can see how that would be daunting and perhaps unfair.  But Simon would be cool!   I'm sure Tony and Mike would feel like they are invaded by "Collins"'s but still!   :) :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on September 14, 2021, 08:52:41 AM
Would've been nice to have Simon Collins along as well.  He's a solid drummer, and seeing Phil's kids do a drum duet would be pretty cool.

Just pointing out I mentioned this back in April, guys.   ;) ;D
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 14, 2021, 09:03:25 AM
Would've been nice to have Simon Collins along as well.  He's a solid drummer, and seeing Phil's kids do a drum duet would be pretty cool.

Just pointing out I mentioned this back in April, guys.   ;) ;D

HA!  I missed it!   (But I ALWAYS read your posts, I promise!)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on September 14, 2021, 10:21:58 AM
Would've been nice to have Simon Collins along as well.  He's a solid drummer, and seeing Phil's kids do a drum duet would be pretty cool.

Just pointing out I mentioned this back in April, guys.   ;) ;D

Yes, but also this:

Not a concert guy to begin with, but I cant say Im all that interested in seeing them at this point. I do think its cool that Nick is getting to do this with his dad though. They should get Simon to come do the double drummer thing with him.

 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 14, 2021, 11:31:26 AM
If you guys recall, Mike even talked about PHIL drumming, in the sense that he thought it possible that Phil COULD.   I find that to be somewhat optimistic, but still. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on September 14, 2021, 12:16:56 PM
I really cannot understand a word Mike Rutherford says.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on September 14, 2021, 12:44:12 PM
I really cannot understand a word Mike Rutherford says.

It's kinda like an upper class British version of Boomhauer, from King of the Hill.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lupton on September 14, 2021, 01:15:02 PM
I really cannot understand a word Mike Rutherford says.

It's kinda like an upper class British version of Boomhauer, from King of the Hill.

 :rollin
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: XeRocks81 on September 14, 2021, 02:09:05 PM
btw it's the 40th anniversary of Abacab, an excellent album imo.

here's Dodo-Luker and the title track performed by very talented people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOFAgxW2WAI
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Trav86 on September 20, 2021, 11:43:54 AM
The first show of the tour is starting in a couple of hours!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 20, 2021, 04:38:38 PM
The first show of the tour is starting in a couple of hours!

First few clips sprouted up on youtube. Man is Phil struggling. Songs are tuned down a lot. And yet, I don't regret my incredibly expensive decision to go see them in two months.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: frogprog on September 20, 2021, 05:14:23 PM
Haha, i thought it was just me, but I also couldnt understand Mike (and to some extent Tony)!
The Briitish Boomhaurer comparison is so funny!
I'm just not sold on Nick and it was very depressing watching Phil. Quite Frankly, i would have thought Genesis would put forth a better product than what I saw. It's just not up to their standard and i think it tarnishes their good name (speaking for myself). Much like the way I now view Yes i will view Genesis and that saddens me
I wonder if Simon was even ever considered. He's a much better drummer than Nick and can sound a lot like his Dad while singing. Maybe there is bad blood between him and the Genesis camp, who knows.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Cool Chris on September 20, 2021, 09:13:30 PM
It's kinda like an upper class British version of Boomhauer, from King of the Hill.

Hilarious! I really want to check this out on YouTube but then they are going to start recommending me a bunch of Genesis videos I don't want to watch.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on September 21, 2021, 09:32:28 AM
Anyone post the setlist yet?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Metro on September 21, 2021, 09:33:41 AM
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/genesis/2021/utilita-arena-birmingham-birmingham-england-7b8c5688.html
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 21, 2021, 09:46:25 AM
That's about as good a setlist as you can expect at this point in their career.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on September 21, 2021, 09:54:47 AM
I know they rehearsed a certain song that hasnt been played in many years but I guess it didnt make the cut?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kram on September 21, 2021, 10:21:26 AM
Great setlist.  Too bad they're not making it out here to the West Coast
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on September 21, 2021, 10:41:41 AM
Fading Lights  :tup
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 21, 2021, 10:58:18 AM
Fading Lights  :tup

Great tune; not to be negative Nelly, though, but not seeing the trio play it is a loss.  That was clearly the highlight of the last tour:  just the three of them on stage for that tune.  Very moving, actually (and I only saw it on video; I wasn't even there live).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on September 21, 2021, 11:50:36 AM
Im seriously excited to see how they transition from Fading Lights into The Cinema Show.  In my head, Ive thought of ways they could go from The Cinema Show into Fading Lights, but Im very interested to see how they go the other way.  Excited to go see them just for that moment.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 21, 2021, 04:53:26 PM
I know they rehearsed a certain song that hasnt been played in many years but I guess it didnt make the cut?

What one?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on September 21, 2021, 05:51:48 PM
I Can't Dance in the encore? Oof.  That song is on my Mount Rushmore of shitbag rock songs that I cannot believe are popular.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Phoenix87x on September 21, 2021, 06:31:37 PM
non nose bleed Tickets are averaging about $400 where I'm at. Too rich for my blood.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dittomist on September 21, 2021, 06:36:26 PM
Yeah, I was also happy to see Fading Lights on the setlist, along with Afterglow (Wind & Wuthering might be my favorite Genesis album) and Mama.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on September 21, 2021, 07:05:06 PM
I know they rehearsed a certain song that hasnt been played in many years but I guess it didnt make the cut?

What one?

Abacab. They also rehearsed Jesus He Knows Me but that didnt make the cut either
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: sfam2112 on September 21, 2021, 09:12:56 PM
I know they rehearsed a certain song that hasnt been played in many years but I guess it didnt make the cut?

What one?

Abacab. They also rehearsed Jesus He Knows Me but that didnt make the cut either

I also remember reading that they rehearsed some part of Supper's Ready. I think it was Apocalypse in 9/8.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTwwbwMP on September 21, 2021, 10:54:25 PM
I Can't Dance in the encore? Oof.  That song is on my Mount Rushmore of shitbag rock songs that I cannot believe are popular.

+10000000000000000000000000000 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on September 22, 2021, 06:50:45 AM
I Can't Dance in the encore? Oof.  That song is on my Mount Rushmore of shitbag rock songs that I cannot believe are popular.

Maybe it's British humor lamenting Phil's current physical condition?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 22, 2021, 07:12:03 AM
I Can't Dance in the encore? Oof.  That song is on my Mount Rushmore of shitbag rock songs that I cannot believe are popular.

You and me.  Although "That's All"  might be there too. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lupton on September 23, 2021, 12:41:07 AM
I'd still consider "That's All" to be a solid song..had it not been flogged to death on FM radio back in the day. That one really wore out its welcome. Now it only makes me think of the carsickness of carpool rides to and from school.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on September 23, 2021, 12:44:03 AM
Yeah, That's All is nice. It has a lovely melody, especially that "I could leave but I won't go" part.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on September 23, 2021, 07:12:19 AM
That's All is a great tune as is I Can't Dance  :metal
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 23, 2021, 07:54:01 AM
I watched a YouTube video of Land of Confusion.  It wasn't bad.  I'd heard about Phil's issues, of course, and that he'd be seated while singing.  Then I watched the opening medley (Behind the Lines/Duke's End/Turn It On Again) and they sounded okay at first, though the transitions were weird, but when they moved into Turn It On Again it was like someone switched to auxilliary power.  All the energy was sucked out of the room.  Weird transition, and suddenly we're in some unknown key (but obviously down a few steps from the original).

I don't have perfect pitch, but I do have very good relative pitch.  If you play a song in a different key, I can hear it.  The chords don't sound the same, and changing the inversions to compensate just exacerbates the issue.  It doesn't just sound different; it sounds wrong.  That crazy 13/4 cadence that sounds amazing in B just sounds terrible in Ab.  I had to stop it.

Those of you who can watch this latter-day Genesis and enjoy it... I'm actually jealous.  But I can't.  I don't give a damn whether Phil is in a chair or singing and jumping around like an idiot; stage show is always a distant second for me.  The music is what matters.  And I can't listen to this.  It sounds wrong, and horrible.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: XeRocks81 on September 23, 2021, 08:51:55 AM
the keys are probably the same as in 2007, many songs were transposed then too. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 23, 2021, 09:08:18 AM
Yeah, I couldn't listen to that one, either.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on September 23, 2021, 09:55:13 AM
Random question:

How does Mike decide whether he will play bass or guitar (and whether Daryl will play guitar or bass) on any given song?  I'm guessing that, for Hackett era songs, he plays primarily bass (or, if they had two guitars going at the time, he does that).  But what about post-Hackett material (which seems to be about 85-90% of the set list) where he played both instruments on the album?  Does Mike just do whichever part he considers more interesting?  Or has he ever explained another rationale?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on September 23, 2021, 10:22:35 AM
I think you nailed it. He plays guitar on 3-man stuff and lets Daryl do Hacketts parts
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 23, 2021, 11:00:22 AM
it's MOSTLY that, especially on the 4/5 man stuff, but I don't think it's set in stone.  I'll have to go back, but I seem to recall watching either the Invisible Touch or We Can't Dance tours and thinking "Huh, Mike's playing bass on that!" when, by that system, he wouldn't be. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on September 23, 2021, 11:51:54 AM
the keys are probably the same as in 2007, many songs were transposed then too.

Nah. MUCH lower.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: billboy73 on September 23, 2021, 12:10:08 PM
Turn It On Again is in B on the album, they dropped it to A in '07, and now it is in G (2 steps down).  The difference is now pretty jarring, and is like that for many of the songs.  Mama sounds pretty cool in the lower key, as it adds to the atmosphere of the song and makes it sound darker.  Home By The Sea is interesting, as it is dropped, but the 2nd part is in the original key.  Phil changes the melody a little on the higher notes he can't hit at the end of the 2nd part.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on September 23, 2021, 12:59:08 PM
it's MOSTLY that, especially on the 4/5 man stuff, but I don't think it's set in stone.  I'll have to go back, but I seem to recall watching either the Invisible Touch or We Can't Dance tours and thinking "Huh, Mike's playing bass on that!" when, by that system, he wouldn't be.

Of the post Hackett material that they've played live, I noticed Darryl plays guitar on the Duke Suite, Keep it Dark, No Reply at All, Jesus He Knows Me, The Lady Lies, It's Gonna Get Better, maybe Burning Rope?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 23, 2021, 03:19:36 PM
it's MOSTLY that, especially on the 4/5 man stuff, but I don't think it's set in stone.  I'll have to go back, but I seem to recall watching either the Invisible Touch or We Can't Dance tours and thinking "Huh, Mike's playing bass on that!" when, by that system, he wouldn't be.

Of the post Hackett material that they've played live, I noticed Darryl plays guitar on the Duke Suite, Keep it Dark, No Reply at All, Jesus He Knows Me, The Lady Lies, It's Gonna Get Better, maybe Burning Rope?

Yeah, I was thinking it was the Duke Suite, but that didn't jive with the videos I mentioned so I didn't want to appear overly confused!  :) :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on September 23, 2021, 04:47:43 PM
Back in the 80's and 90's, I always figured it was Daryl playing the original Steve Hackett parts, and Michael playing guitar on the later stuff.  But as we've seen, there are plenty of exceptions.

We know that most Genesis tunes come out of the guys jamming in the studio; this has always been the case.  And I would guess that most of the time they're jamming, Mike plays bass just because it's what he's used to.  If the song ends up with guitar stuff on the album, fine, but to Mike that's the "extra" stuff.  But obviously the final decision is his, whether he wants to play guitar or bass on any given song.  Daryl's job is to play what Mike says to play.  That's no dig on Daryl Steurmer, by the way.  I was a fan of Steurmer since the original Jon-Luc Ponty band.  He's awesome.  But he's still a hired gun with Genesis, and he'd be the first to tell you that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on September 23, 2021, 05:07:03 PM
Yeah, I was thinking it was the Duke Suite, but that didn't jive with the videos I mentioned so I didn't want to appear overly confused!  :) :)

That's never stopped me!   :lol
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: cfmoran13 on September 24, 2021, 09:15:10 PM
I'm a big fan of Phil Collins (first 4 studio album era), casual Genesis fan.  I was lucky enough to see Genesis at Giants Stadium on the Invisible Touch Tour and Phil solo on his First Final Farewell Tour.  Seeing the YT clips of this current tour makes me so sad.  Hearing these severely down-tuned songs with a chair-ridden Phil is just depressing.    I'm happy he got his surgery and (hopefully) isn't in much pain anymore.  But, to me, this seems worse than current day Ozzy being carted out onstage by Sharon.  They've never been an overly energetic bunch onstage.  And, now, the one guy who was mobile is now relegated to a chair for the whole show.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on October 08, 2021, 09:22:40 PM
this sucks, but safety first.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-58850393?fbclid=IwAR1PbUHQPJUgb84RV4tr5cxgwDlgNPkiljw0ANcHqXZ0ybahKhrVk9nGRFA

Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTwwbwMP on October 08, 2021, 09:57:39 PM
Seeing the YT clips of this current tour makes me so sad.  Hearing these severely down-tuned songs with a chair-ridden Phil is just depressing.   

VERY! I also don't understand the point of them touring as such. Seems like kind of a rip off to me. It's not anyone's fault of course, but it's a TERRIBLE way to say "farewell" from such a great band.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lupton on October 17, 2021, 06:10:42 PM
Well for those interested in checking more British Boomhauer, found this very recent interview with Patti Boyd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHTyJQsKVmw

I had no clue that Genesis spent so much time in Dallas, TX back in the day.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on November 15, 2021, 07:29:50 PM
new fan-made 22-minute documentary about the making of "A Trick of the Tail," really well done and researched.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMVqnKK2SVE
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 16, 2021, 12:18:05 PM
Anyone else check out the Genesis Piano Project album that was released last month? I think theyve had some YouTube videos out for a while that we may have had posted in here. I half listened to it in the office this morning and then listened to One for the Vine with headphones over lunch. Nothing thats never been done before, but I still found it highly enjoyable.

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_liK9WyAE_IQr7u2y9H1IkHyzp32I_8lvw&playnext=1&index=1
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 16, 2021, 09:01:41 PM
Anyone else check out the Genesis Piano Project album that was released last month? I think theyve had some YouTube videos out for a while that we may have had posted in here. I half listened to it in the office this morning and then listened to One for the Vine with headphones over lunch. Nothing thats never been done before, but I still found it highly enjoyable.

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_liK9WyAE_IQr7u2y9H1IkHyzp32I_8lvw&playnext=1&index=1

After a few more listens took the plunge and bought this (it's download only). It really is well done.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Implode on November 16, 2021, 09:51:28 PM
Just got out of the second night at the Chicago concert. They really put on a great show. Really grateful I was able to see them!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on November 17, 2021, 12:24:13 AM
Just got out of the second night at the Chicago concert. They really put on a great show. Really grateful I was able to see them!

Do I dare to ask how Phil was doing?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dittomist on November 17, 2021, 01:19:09 AM
I watched a few videos on YouTube and Phil sounded pretty good, especially on "Misunderstanding," which was just added to the setlist. According to setlist.fm, it was the first time they performed that song since 1984. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Implode on November 17, 2021, 07:08:55 AM
Honestly all things considered they, Phil included, sounded amazing. But I will admit that never before has a concert made me think so much about mortality and the ceaseless progression of time.

In terms of how well hes doing, I admit I dont know much about his current health. He appeared significantly weaker than his bandmates, confined to a spinning chair, voice timbre completely overcome by his age, and his slightly curled up form. But he was clearly happy to be performing, sounded fine, and everyone was into it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on December 02, 2021, 06:57:07 AM
SO I saw The Musical Box last night for the fourth time.  This time was the "Genesis Extravaganza Volume 2", where they do three sets:  the first is from the four-man incarnation, songs from A Trick Of The Tail and Wind And Wuthering.  Since W&W is my favorite Genesis album, this was killer.   At at least two points I had goosebumps on my arm.   Sebastian ("Mike") and Denis ("Peter"/"Phil") are the back bone of the band, but last night Antoine Baril ("Phil" (drums)) and Ian ("Tony") were the real standouts.  There were probably four or five moments where Antoine was just CRUSHING it and Sebastian and Ian (on either side of him) just smiled at him.  They were having real fun, and it showed.  Denis actually looks and sounds like Peter, and he's cultivated that (with some of the mannerisms) over the years, but he slips into the Phil role well, and his voice REALLY shines on songs like Ripples (not so much on Dance On A Volcano or 11th Earl Of Mar, but that's not to say it wasn't very good, just not "evocative" like, say, Supper's Ready, where you can really lose yourself.) 

I get it, it's a cover band, but these guys are the real deal, and are giving us something we can't see anywhere else.  Plus, watching the ending of Cinema Show, with just Sebastian, Antoine and Ian on stage (like the real band did it) is so special.  I've long written that the In The Cage Medley from Three Sides Live is my favorite piece of recorded music, and the bulk of that was performed last night and it was so good.   I've been under a fair amount of stress lately, and basically went by myself, and sat in the very front row; it was a wonderful, escapist two and a half hours.   Really needed that.  (Though the guy next to me had seen them something like 45 times and had seen the original Genesis on the Selling England tour, so that was a treat to talk to him). 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on December 02, 2021, 07:31:38 AM
SO I saw The Musical Box last night for the fourth time.  This time was the "Genesis Extravaganza Volume 2", where they do three sets:  the first is from the four-man incarnation, songs from A Trick Of The Tail and Wind And Wuthering.  Since W&W is my favorite Genesis album, this was killer.   At at least two points I had goosebumps on my arm.   Sebastian ("Mike") and Denis ("Peter"/"Phil") are the back bone of the band, but last night Antoine Baril ("Phil" (drums)) and Ian ("Tony") were the real standouts.  There were probably four or five moments where Antoine was just CRUSHING it and Sebastian and Ian (on either side of him) just smiled at him.  They were having real fun, and it showed.  Denis actually looks and sounds like Peter, and he's cultivated that (with some of the mannerisms) over the years, but he slips into the Phil role well, and his voice REALLY shines on songs like Ripples (not so much on Dance On A Volcano or 11th Earl Of Mar, but that's not to say it wasn't very good, just not "evocative" like, say, Supper's Ready, where you can really lose yourself. 

I get it, it's a cover band, but these guys are the real deal, and are giving us something we can't see anywhere else.  Plus, watching the ending of Cinema Show, with just Sebastian, Antoine and Ian on stage (like the real band did it) is so special.  I've long written that the In The Cage Medley from Three Sides Live is my favorite piece of recorded music, and the bulk of that was performed last night and it was so good.   I've been under a fair amount of stress lately, and basically went by myself, and sat in the very front row; it was a wonderful, escapist two and a half hours.   Really needed that.  (Though the guy next to me had seen them something like 45 times and had seen the original Genesis on the Selling England tour, so that was a treat to talk to him).

Sounds like a great time! Glad you got to unwind a bit.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: XeRocks81 on December 02, 2021, 10:07:22 AM
Antoine Baril is an awesome dude.  Im sure most of you have seen this already but he got the drum gig on the strength of this video alone https://youtu.be/-V7Dqf-FQL4

back in 2019(I think?) TMBs drummer had some sort of last minute emergency and they needed a sub for a US tour with 3 days notice or something. He was the guy they called.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Dave_Manchester on December 04, 2021, 09:41:56 AM
So here's an oddity I just came across. Apparently in the mid 70s some English comedy actor decided he wanted to release a simple 3-minute pop single. Fair enough, nothing too strange about that. But then by some bizarre sequence of events that nobody involved seems able to now remember, he ended up getting a slew of 70s prog musicians to either write, sing or play on it, including Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins, Robert Fripp, Brian Eno and more... ​

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQbO9cCfHIc


Here are Phil Collins' 'recollections':

"It did indeed feature Robert Fripp, Percy Jones, Keith Tippett, me and Peter G. A friend of Pete's, Martin Hall wrote the song, or possibly co-wrote it with Peter, called You Never Know. Apparently Charlie Drake, who was a huge comedy star of the 50s and 60s, wanted to make a record. How he ended up with this line-up I have no idea! It seems the most obscure set of people to make a comedy record. On the day Charlie, who was quite small, turned up with a brand new denim outfit for his rock debut... it was quite touching to see him at it. Percy Jones and I were already in Brand X by then. The whole session was one of life's interesting snapshots!"
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 05, 2021, 12:22:04 PM
SO I saw The Musical Box last night for the fourth time.  This time was the "Genesis Extravaganza Volume 2", where they do three sets:  the first is from the four-man incarnation, songs from A Trick Of The Tail and Wind And Wuthering.  Since W&W is my favorite Genesis album, this was killer.   At at least two points I had goosebumps on my arm.   Sebastian ("Mike") and Denis ("Peter"/"Phil") are the back bone of the band, but last night Antoine Baril ("Phil" (drums)) and Ian ("Tony") were the real standouts.  There were probably four or five moments where Antoine was just CRUSHING it and Sebastian and Ian (on either side of him) just smiled at him.  They were having real fun, and it showed.  Denis actually looks and sounds like Peter, and he's cultivated that (with some of the mannerisms) over the years, but he slips into the Phil role well, and his voice REALLY shines on songs like Ripples (not so much on Dance On A Volcano or 11th Earl Of Mar, but that's not to say it wasn't very good, just not "evocative" like, say, Supper's Ready, where you can really lose yourself.) 

I get it, it's a cover band, but these guys are the real deal, and are giving us something we can't see anywhere else.  Plus, watching the ending of Cinema Show, with just Sebastian, Antoine and Ian on stage (like the real band did it) is so special.  I've long written that the In The Cage Medley from Three Sides Live is my favorite piece of recorded music, and the bulk of that was performed last night and it was so good.   I've been under a fair amount of stress lately, and basically went by myself, and sat in the very front row; it was a wonderful, escapist two and a half hours.   Really needed that.  (Though the guy next to me had seen them something like 45 times and had seen the original Genesis on the Selling England tour, so that was a treat to talk to him).

Saw Musical Box a couple weeks ago and I can confirm everything you've said. It's a bit weird to see them doing Phil era songs but if you've ever wanted what Peter Gabriel would sound like singing Entangled or Robbery, Assault, and Battery then this is your chance.

I've seen them several times now including their "Black Show" where the set is parred down but they utilize a bunch of black lights.  Apparently it's because Genesis lost some equipment or couldn't afford to bring part of their set so they improvised with a bunch of florescent stuff. Very cool.

Similar to you, I ran into a guy there who is a HUGE Genesis fan. I have no idea where he gets all his money but he has seen them at least half a dozen times on every leg of every tour INCLUDING the European shows. He even flew to Europe to see Genesis with Ray Wilson a bunch of times. I actually incidentally sat next to him at a Phil show a few years ago and then we just happened to be sitting one row apart at The Musical Box show a few months later.

Next year The Musical Box is doing the ENTIRE Lamb album. I never really dug that album UNTIL I saw Musical Box do about a third of the album a few years back. Now I still don't love it but there's something about seeing it live that is special.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: XeRocks81 on December 06, 2021, 11:05:27 AM
Lily went to see her dad and brother perform and had the time of her life
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXIR-4ErTu3/?utm_medium=copy_link
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on December 06, 2021, 11:10:12 AM
Lily went to see her dad and little brother perform and had the time of her life
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXIR-4ErTu3/?utm_medium=copy_link

I love that backdrop (on screens probably) that appears to be mimicking CD/cassette spines.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: XeRocks81 on December 06, 2021, 11:14:03 AM
a nice picture with her "little" brother too

https://www.instagram.com/p/CXJQ_wQLgWx/
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on December 06, 2021, 12:01:08 PM
Looking forward to seeing them in Columbus on Wednesday.  Instrumentally, from what I've seen, they are still in top form. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on December 07, 2021, 07:33:53 AM
SO I saw The Musical Box last night for the fourth time.  This time was the "Genesis Extravaganza Volume 2", where they do three sets:  the first is from the four-man incarnation, songs from A Trick Of The Tail and Wind And Wuthering.  Since W&W is my favorite Genesis album, this was killer.   At at least two points I had goosebumps on my arm.   Sebastian ("Mike") and Denis ("Peter"/"Phil") are the back bone of the band, but last night Antoine Baril ("Phil" (drums)) and Ian ("Tony") were the real standouts.  There were probably four or five moments where Antoine was just CRUSHING it and Sebastian and Ian (on either side of him) just smiled at him.  They were having real fun, and it showed.  Denis actually looks and sounds like Peter, and he's cultivated that (with some of the mannerisms) over the years, but he slips into the Phil role well, and his voice REALLY shines on songs like Ripples (not so much on Dance On A Volcano or 11th Earl Of Mar, but that's not to say it wasn't very good, just not "evocative" like, say, Supper's Ready, where you can really lose yourself.) 

I get it, it's a cover band, but these guys are the real deal, and are giving us something we can't see anywhere else.  Plus, watching the ending of Cinema Show, with just Sebastian, Antoine and Ian on stage (like the real band did it) is so special.  I've long written that the In The Cage Medley from Three Sides Live is my favorite piece of recorded music, and the bulk of that was performed last night and it was so good.   I've been under a fair amount of stress lately, and basically went by myself, and sat in the very front row; it was a wonderful, escapist two and a half hours.   Really needed that.  (Though the guy next to me had seen them something like 45 times and had seen the original Genesis on the Selling England tour, so that was a treat to talk to him).

Saw Musical Box a couple weeks ago and I can confirm everything you've said. It's a bit weird to see them doing Phil era songs but if you've ever wanted what Peter Gabriel would sound like singing Entangled or Robbery, Assault, and Battery then this is your chance.

I've seen them several times now including their "Black Show" where the set is parred down but they utilize a bunch of black lights.  Apparently it's because Genesis lost some equipment or couldn't afford to bring part of their set so they improvised with a bunch of florescent stuff. Very cool.

Similar to you, I ran into a guy there who is a HUGE Genesis fan. I have no idea where he gets all his money but he has seen them at least half a dozen times on every leg of every tour INCLUDING the European shows. He even flew to Europe to see Genesis with Ray Wilson a bunch of times. I actually incidentally sat next to him at a Phil show a few years ago and then we just happened to be sitting one row apart at The Musical Box show a few months later.

Next year The Musical Box is doing the ENTIRE Lamb album. I never really dug that album UNTIL I saw Musical Box do about a third of the album a few years back. Now I still don't love it but there's something about seeing it live that is special.

Well, I saw when they did the "Lamb segment", and the only theatrics were Denis in a leather jacket and jeans (ala Rael).  When they did a full Lamb tour about 6, 7 years ago, they did the full Monty.  All the costumes, all the slides.  From what I understand, it was THE original slides, given to them by the band, including some that weren't in the original show for whatever reason; Tony supposedly worked with TMB to re-sequence the slides to more reflect what they WANTED to do than what they actually did.  So this is essentially a play more than a concert.  I'm going, for sure, to see what audiences saw back in '74, '75.  I think it's going to be a treat. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on December 07, 2021, 07:35:22 AM
My friend saw MSG last night or the night before (I forget); but I haven't talked to her to see how she liked it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on December 09, 2021, 04:21:43 PM
Saw Genesis in Columbus last night, and they put on a great show.  Theyve been at the top of my concert bucket list since I was a kid, so it was great to finally see them live, for likely the only time.  Tony, Mike, and Darryl were near flawless, and Nic Collins absolutely crushed it on drums.  Phil, despite his limitations, really seemed to be enjoying himself.  Lots of poignant moments, I think I saw Tony show emotion during the band introductions!  The light show was impressive without being excessive, and the live mix was full and detailed.  Even with having to transpose songs, and Phil at times struggling to sing in key and get the words sung in time, it was still a brilliant show and Im glad I got to finally see them.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 09, 2021, 05:32:45 PM
SO I saw The Musical Box last night for the fourth time.  This time was the "Genesis Extravaganza Volume 2", where they do three sets:  the first is from the four-man incarnation, songs from A Trick Of The Tail and Wind And Wuthering.  Since W&W is my favorite Genesis album, this was killer.   At at least two points I had goosebumps on my arm.   Sebastian ("Mike") and Denis ("Peter"/"Phil") are the back bone of the band, but last night Antoine Baril ("Phil" (drums)) and Ian ("Tony") were the real standouts.  There were probably four or five moments where Antoine was just CRUSHING it and Sebastian and Ian (on either side of him) just smiled at him.  They were having real fun, and it showed.  Denis actually looks and sounds like Peter, and he's cultivated that (with some of the mannerisms) over the years, but he slips into the Phil role well, and his voice REALLY shines on songs like Ripples (not so much on Dance On A Volcano or 11th Earl Of Mar, but that's not to say it wasn't very good, just not "evocative" like, say, Supper's Ready, where you can really lose yourself.) 

I get it, it's a cover band, but these guys are the real deal, and are giving us something we can't see anywhere else.  Plus, watching the ending of Cinema Show, with just Sebastian, Antoine and Ian on stage (like the real band did it) is so special.  I've long written that the In The Cage Medley from Three Sides Live is my favorite piece of recorded music, and the bulk of that was performed last night and it was so good.   I've been under a fair amount of stress lately, and basically went by myself, and sat in the very front row; it was a wonderful, escapist two and a half hours.   Really needed that.  (Though the guy next to me had seen them something like 45 times and had seen the original Genesis on the Selling England tour, so that was a treat to talk to him).

Saw Musical Box a couple weeks ago and I can confirm everything you've said. It's a bit weird to see them doing Phil era songs but if you've ever wanted what Peter Gabriel would sound like singing Entangled or Robbery, Assault, and Battery then this is your chance.

I've seen them several times now including their "Black Show" where the set is parred down but they utilize a bunch of black lights.  Apparently it's because Genesis lost some equipment or couldn't afford to bring part of their set so they improvised with a bunch of florescent stuff. Very cool.

Similar to you, I ran into a guy there who is a HUGE Genesis fan. I have no idea where he gets all his money but he has seen them at least half a dozen times on every leg of every tour INCLUDING the European shows. He even flew to Europe to see Genesis with Ray Wilson a bunch of times. I actually incidentally sat next to him at a Phil show a few years ago and then we just happened to be sitting one row apart at The Musical Box show a few months later.

Next year The Musical Box is doing the ENTIRE Lamb album. I never really dug that album UNTIL I saw Musical Box do about a third of the album a few years back. Now I still don't love it but there's something about seeing it live that is special.

Well, I saw when they did the "Lamb segment", and the only theatrics were Denis in a leather jacket and jeans (ala Rael). 

Well yeah. I didn't mean I was blown away by him wearing a leather jacket but hearing it live and being able to watch the band really made me appreciate it more. Can't wait to see the full thing.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on December 09, 2021, 05:46:50 PM
SO I saw The Musical Box last night for the fourth time.  This time was the "Genesis Extravaganza Volume 2", where they do three sets:  the first is from the four-man incarnation, songs from A Trick Of The Tail and Wind And Wuthering.  Since W&W is my favorite Genesis album, this was killer.   At at least two points I had goosebumps on my arm.   Sebastian ("Mike") and Denis ("Peter"/"Phil") are the back bone of the band, but last night Antoine Baril ("Phil" (drums)) and Ian ("Tony") were the real standouts.  There were probably four or five moments where Antoine was just CRUSHING it and Sebastian and Ian (on either side of him) just smiled at him.  They were having real fun, and it showed.  Denis actually looks and sounds like Peter, and he's cultivated that (with some of the mannerisms) over the years, but he slips into the Phil role well, and his voice REALLY shines on songs like Ripples (not so much on Dance On A Volcano or 11th Earl Of Mar, but that's not to say it wasn't very good, just not "evocative" like, say, Supper's Ready, where you can really lose yourself.) 

I get it, it's a cover band, but these guys are the real deal, and are giving us something we can't see anywhere else.  Plus, watching the ending of Cinema Show, with just Sebastian, Antoine and Ian on stage (like the real band did it) is so special.  I've long written that the In The Cage Medley from Three Sides Live is my favorite piece of recorded music, and the bulk of that was performed last night and it was so good.   I've been under a fair amount of stress lately, and basically went by myself, and sat in the very front row; it was a wonderful, escapist two and a half hours.   Really needed that.  (Though the guy next to me had seen them something like 45 times and had seen the original Genesis on the Selling England tour, so that was a treat to talk to him).

Saw Musical Box a couple weeks ago and I can confirm everything you've said. It's a bit weird to see them doing Phil era songs but if you've ever wanted what Peter Gabriel would sound like singing Entangled or Robbery, Assault, and Battery then this is your chance.

I've seen them several times now including their "Black Show" where the set is parred down but they utilize a bunch of black lights.  Apparently it's because Genesis lost some equipment or couldn't afford to bring part of their set so they improvised with a bunch of florescent stuff. Very cool.

Similar to you, I ran into a guy there who is a HUGE Genesis fan. I have no idea where he gets all his money but he has seen them at least half a dozen times on every leg of every tour INCLUDING the European shows. He even flew to Europe to see Genesis with Ray Wilson a bunch of times. I actually incidentally sat next to him at a Phil show a few years ago and then we just happened to be sitting one row apart at The Musical Box show a few months later.

Next year The Musical Box is doing the ENTIRE Lamb album. I never really dug that album UNTIL I saw Musical Box do about a third of the album a few years back. Now I still don't love it but there's something about seeing it live that is special.

Well, I saw when they did the "Lamb segment", and the only theatrics were Denis in a leather jacket and jeans (ala Rael). 

Well yeah. I didn't mean I was blown away by him wearing a leather jacket but hearing it live and being able to watch the band really made me appreciate it more. Can't wait to see the full thing.

No I'm with you; I was trying to express my excitement.  Musically, that band is SOLID.  I have my hopes very high for this show.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 10, 2021, 03:15:11 PM
Honestly I would love to hear some originals from them too. I actually looked up if the vocalist has done anything else. It doesn't appear so.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: LudwigVan on December 12, 2021, 09:20:03 PM
Saw Genesis in Columbus last night, and they put on a great show.  Theyve been at the top of my concert bucket list since I was a kid, so it was great to finally see them live, for likely the only time.  Tony, Mike, and Darryl were near flawless, and Nic Collins absolutely crushed it on drums.  Phil, despite his limitations, really seemed to be enjoying himself.  Lots of poignant moments, I think I saw Tony show emotion during the band introductions!  The light show was impressive without being excessive, and the live mix was full and detailed.  Even with having to transpose songs, and Phil at times struggling to sing in key and get the words sung in time, it was still a brilliant show and Im glad I got to finally see them.

Saw them play UBS Arena at Belmont Park. As feeble as he looked, I thought Phil's vocals were quite strong.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on December 13, 2021, 06:56:37 AM
Saw Genesis in Columbus last night, and they put on a great show.  Theyve been at the top of my concert bucket list since I was a kid, so it was great to finally see them live, for likely the only time.  Tony, Mike, and Darryl were near flawless, and Nic Collins absolutely crushed it on drums.  Phil, despite his limitations, really seemed to be enjoying himself.  Lots of poignant moments, I think I saw Tony show emotion during the band introductions!  The light show was impressive without being excessive, and the live mix was full and detailed.  Even with having to transpose songs, and Phil at times struggling to sing in key and get the words sung in time, it was still a brilliant show and Im glad I got to finally see them.

Saw them play UBS Arena at Belmont Park. As feeble as he looked, I thought Phil's vocals were quite strong.

I think he used his feeble-ness to his advantage on a few tunes, namely Mama and No Son of Mine.  Mama was extra menacing with him leaning into the creepy old man vibe.  My buddy and I were both struck by how dark the performance of Mama was. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on December 14, 2021, 08:08:09 PM
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway documentary (from the same person who made the Trick doc recently)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os-F3DgjYis
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on January 24, 2022, 09:58:03 AM
New Rockonteurs podcast episode featuring Steve Hackett. It's a nice conversation that mostly touches on Steve's time with Genesis, though I have to say every time Steve appears on a podcast his audio is terrible! Still a good listen though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtqWmY_mZdY&list=PLAKOnfD9DsbevXaK5FiKqIBj9axbMqrWi&index=67
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on January 25, 2022, 04:06:03 PM
Doug Helvering did "Mad Man Moon" today.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00oYnJ8YO1s

Great reaction video with a lot of the theory analysis that is his forte.  He's done a few Genesis songs, and he always seems genuinely impressed with Tony's unique songwriting.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on January 25, 2022, 04:28:59 PM
Doug Helvering did "Mad Man Moon" today.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00oYnJ8YO1s

Great reaction video with a lot of the theory analysis that is his forte.  He's done a few Genesis songs, and he always seems genuinely impressed with Tony's unique songwriting.

Just watched that a bit earlier. I've now got the rest of the album playing because it's just so good. Trick and Wind are probably two of my favorite Genesis albums, definitely both as good as anything the band did with Peter Gabriel, IMO.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on January 26, 2022, 09:13:16 AM
So I saw on "The Chase" that "Wuthering" actually means "windy".  So my favorite Genesis album is actually called "Wind and Windy"?   

(I always thought it was sort of the result of wind; that is, more like "wind blown".)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on January 26, 2022, 09:22:27 AM
So I saw on "The Chase" that "Wuthering" actually means "windy".  So my favorite Genesis album is actually called "Wind and Windy"?   

(I always thought it was sort of the result of wind; that is, more like "wind blown".)

I always thought it was a reference to Wuthering Heights, and was mostly just about the romantic atmosphere of the music recalling that sort of a novel.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on January 26, 2022, 09:54:18 AM
Doug Helvering did "Mad Man Moon" today.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00oYnJ8YO1s

Great reaction video with a lot of the theory analysis that is his forte.  He's done a few Genesis songs, and he always seems genuinely impressed with Tony's unique songwriting.

Just watched that a bit earlier. I've now got the rest of the album playing because it's just so good. Trick and Wind are probably two of my favorite Genesis albums, definitely both as good as anything the band did with Peter Gabriel, IMO.

-Marc.

Trick is easily my #1 Genesis album.


So I saw on "The Chase" that "Wuthering" actually means "windy".  So my favorite Genesis album is actually called "Wind and Windy"?   

(I always thought it was sort of the result of wind; that is, more like "wind blown".)

Ha!  I watched that last night.  For some reason, my mind kind of stayed in the context of the question, and I didn't think about W&W.  Jennings completely botched the final chase.


So I saw on "The Chase" that "Wuthering" actually means "windy".  So my favorite Genesis album is actually called "Wind and Windy"?   

(I always thought it was sort of the result of wind; that is, more like "wind blown".)

I always thought it was a reference to Wuthering Heights, and was mostly just about the romantic atmosphere of the music recalling that sort of a novel.

It is (and the titles of Unquiet Slumbers for the Sleepers and In That Quiet Earth are both taken from the last paragraph of the book).  The question on The Chase to which Stadler referred was something like, "In the novel Wuthering Heights, 'wuthering' means:  a. ___, b. ___, c. windy?" (I don't remember what the other two options were).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on January 26, 2022, 10:06:02 AM

I always thought it was a reference to Wuthering Heights, and was mostly just about the romantic atmosphere of the music recalling that sort of a novel.

It is (and the titles of Unquiet Slumbers for the Sleepers and In That Quiet Earth are both taken from the last paragraph of the book).  The question on The Chase to which Stadler referred was something like, "In the novel Wuthering Heights, 'wuthering' means:  a. ___, b. ___, c. windy?" (I don't remember what the other two options were).
[/quote]

Yeah, I got that. Just saying its probably all a play on words. The album evokes the notion of a windy autumn day and also evokes a romantic novel like Wuthering Heights.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on February 16, 2022, 09:48:42 PM
Mike Rutherford's Smallcreep's Day is being reissued on CD on March 25th. I've never gotten to hear it before (I know I could probably find it on YouTube), so looking forward to this.

https://www.loudersound.com/news/mike-rutherfords-smallcreeps-day-to-get-cd-reissue-in-march

Looks like it may only be a UK release right now. Hopefully not too expensive to get a hold of over in the States.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on February 16, 2022, 11:55:07 PM
I have a first vinyl pressing, found it somewhere for around 10 a few years back. Very good album! Plus, Simon Phillips on drums!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on February 17, 2022, 09:41:07 AM
From everything I've read, this is Mike's best solo album, and a good album in its own right, but has always been hard to find.  I don't remember now if I've ever heard it, but I know I don't have a copy, so this is good news.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on February 17, 2022, 12:47:01 PM
it's a good record, and 1 I think I own on Vinyl. I may look to pick it up eventually.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on February 17, 2022, 01:16:31 PM
One of the few Genesis related things I HAVEN'T heard.  I remember always seeing the vinyl in the import section, but it was wildly expensive (this is back in the 80's) and I was just getting into the main band at that time.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on February 17, 2022, 04:50:26 PM
Splurged when I found a CD for a decent price and man, I honestly don't know why, but it is one of my favorite albums. I typically don't like music like that. I love Rutherford's work in Genesis but could never get into Mike + the Mechanics. His second solo album is...very strange.

Smallcreep's Day just hit all the right notes, both figuratively and literally. It's an odd concept about an odd book but it works so well.  :metal
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on February 17, 2022, 06:58:18 PM
I picked up Acting Very Strange a while back; I think I found it in the discount bin.  It's okay.  Some of it's weird, most of it isn't horrible, but most of it is just... there.  Not of lot of real standout moments.  But I haven't listened to it in a long time.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lupton on March 12, 2022, 10:15:20 AM
Don't know if anyone's posted this anywhere. Really enjoyed this interview of Peter, Tony and Mike:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeGVDk0mSY8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeGVDk0mSY8)
 
Lots of stuff I didn't know about the early days, though I never saw the last documentary they made so I'm not sure what made the cut vs. what didn't
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 14, 2022, 05:19:49 PM
So I was going through my list of DTF Survivors that I've run here, and I noticed I've only done the Genesis Survivor ONCE, and that was back in 2012, so I think we are about due. It won't start til I'm done with my Dream Theater Survivor, so probably not until June or sometime this summer.

For those who are interested, you can check out the Genesis Survivor 2012 - Results & Discussion (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=31484.0) thread to see what the results were from a decade ago. Obviously the band haven't released any new studio material, so it'll be run the same way as before. It'll be fun to see how the results differ from a decade ago!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SomeoneLikeHim on March 15, 2022, 01:38:29 AM
Wow, the Genesis survivor was really 10 years ago?  That brings me back, it was what got me into posting here back in the day. I haven't posted in a long while now but I still read some threads semi-regularly. Anyway, I had a lot of fun in that survivor and discovered some personal favorites that are still in heavy rotation to this day that I may have never bothered to listen to otherwise, good memories!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on March 15, 2022, 09:48:00 AM
So I was going through my list of DTF Survivors that I've run here, and I noticed I've only done the Genesis Survivor ONCE, and that was back in 2012, so I think we are about due. It won't start til I'm done with my Dream Theater Survivor, so probably not until June or sometime this summer.

For those who are interested, you can check out the Genesis Survivor 2012 - Results & Discussion (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=31484.0) thread to see what the results were from a decade ago. Obviously the band haven't released any new studio material, so it'll be run the same way as before. It'll be fun to see how the results differ from a decade ago!

-Marc.

Holy crap...Robbery, Assault & Battery out FIRST on ATOTT??!!  That might be the most unfathomable result I've seen on any survivor since I've been posting here.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on March 15, 2022, 09:50:02 AM
Tell Me Why out first on We Can't Dance... Misunderstanding out first on Duke... This needs to be rectified :P
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on March 15, 2022, 10:00:48 AM
So I was going through my list of DTF Survivors that I've run here, and I noticed I've only done the Genesis Survivor ONCE, and that was back in 2012, so I think we are about due. It won't start til I'm done with my Dream Theater Survivor, so probably not until June or sometime this summer.

For those who are interested, you can check out the Genesis Survivor 2012 - Results & Discussion (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=31484.0) thread to see what the results were from a decade ago. Obviously the band haven't released any new studio material, so it'll be run the same way as before. It'll be fun to see how the results differ from a decade ago!

-Marc.

Holy crap...Robbery, Assault & Battery out FIRST on ATOTT??!!  That might be the most unfathomable result I've seen on any survivor since I've been posting here.

That's my least favorite track on that album probably. The middle section is pretty great though.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on March 15, 2022, 10:42:12 AM
the same fan who made those others (The Lamb, Trick, Wind & Wuthering), made a Nursery Cryme documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ4XfbpS_bc
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on March 18, 2022, 11:00:11 AM
2nd part of the reunion was just put up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml7oiSYgtxs
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on March 27, 2022, 05:36:26 PM
No real question about it, but Phil Collins confirmed that last night was the final performance by Genesis. Apparently Peter Gabriel took it in (as did Greg Spawton of Big Big Train, perhaps others of note).

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/genesis-final-show/

Time marches on. Genesis and King Crimson wrapping their careers in the same year is kind of interesting.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FO0wZFxWYAMGkeB?format=jpg&name=900x900)

https://twitter.com/worldofgenesis/status/1507914663702499334?s=21

Spinning Fading Lights now, watching the sunset out my front window. Feels appropriate.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 27, 2022, 06:03:38 PM
It's heart-warming to see Peter and Phil together. It's like seeing James LaBrie with Portnoy after a decade, but even MORE so because, ya know, it's Genesis, and they've been a band for over 50 years now.

In one way, it's nice know that it was their last tour and show, so thing's have a certain finality, but it's also a bit bittersweet. Was it ever said that there would be a recording (audio or video) of this tour for future release? Or was this a "you had to be there" kind of event? Either way, I suppose the sun has finally set on Genesis.

Without derailing this thread too much, who else is still touring from the great 70s prog bands other than Yes, and I think, Jethro Tull? Not many of them left after Rush, Genesis, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, and many others.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on March 27, 2022, 06:12:02 PM
It's heart-warming to see Peter and Phil together. It's like seeing James LaBrie with Portnoy after a decade, but even MORE so because, ya know, it's Genesis, and they've been a band for over 50 years now.

In one way, it's nice know that it was their last tour and show, so thing's have a certain finality, but it's also a bit bittersweet. Was it ever said that there would be a recording (audio or video) of this tour for future release? Or was this a "you had to be there" kind of event? Either way, I suppose the sun has finally set on Genesis.

Without derailing this thread too much, who else is still touring from the great 70s prog bands other than Yes, and I think, Jethro Tull? Not many of them left after Rush, Genesis, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, and many others.

-Marc.

Steve Hackett soldiers on doing justice to the early Genesis material as well as his own, but his band is made up of younger guys. Nick Mason also does the Saucer Full Of Secrets thing for PF, but the original bands are few and far between. Heck, theres not much difference between what Hackett and Mason are doing and the current Yes lineup, which is basically just Howe and some other guys. Andrew Latimer has managed to keep a version of Camel touring as well.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 27, 2022, 06:26:58 PM
It's heart-warming to see Peter and Phil together. It's like seeing James LaBrie with Portnoy after a decade, but even MORE so because, ya know, it's Genesis, and they've been a band for over 50 years now.

In one way, it's nice know that it was their last tour and show, so thing's have a certain finality, but it's also a bit bittersweet. Was it ever said that there would be a recording (audio or video) of this tour for future release? Or was this a "you had to be there" kind of event? Either way, I suppose the sun has finally set on Genesis.

Without derailing this thread too much, who else is still touring from the great 70s prog bands other than Yes, and I think, Jethro Tull? Not many of them left after Rush, Genesis, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, and many others.

-Marc.

Steve Hackett soldiers on doing justice to the early Genesis material as well as his own, but his band is made up of younger guys. Nick Mason also does the Saucer Full Of Secrets thing for PF, but the original bands are few and far between. Heck, theres not much difference between what Hackett and Mason are doing and the current Yes lineup, which is basically just Howe and some other guys. Andrew Latimer has managed to keep a version of Camel touring as well.

That's a good point about Howe/Hackett. Maybe they should just have a GTR reunion tour and call it a day.  :lol Kidding. Hackett waving the classic-Genesis flag is a brilliant move, and he's having more success (with fans) than Howe, at least from some comments I've read online. Seems like the old guard of 70s bands is slowly fading away. In another decade, acts like Marillion and IQ may be the next to go, then folks like Roine Stolt, Neal Morse, and Steven Wilson in the 2040s/2050s. The march of time is tough one, but I guess we just have to take it all in stride.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on March 27, 2022, 06:51:50 PM
That's a good point about Howe/Hackett. Maybe they should just have a GTR reunion tour and call it a day.  :lol Kidding. Hackett waving the classic-Genesis flag is a brilliant move, and he's having more success (with fans) than Howe, at least from some comments I've read online. Seems like the old guard of 70s bands is slowly fading away. In another decade, acts like Marillion and IQ may be the next to go, then folks like Roine Stolt, Neal Morse, and Steven Wilson in the 2040s/2050s. The march of time is tough one, but I guess we just have to take it all in stride.

-Marc.

You know, Roine is actually from that 70s era of bands having started with Kaipa at a young age. Neal isnt much younger as I think he was around 35 when The Light came out.

Its kind of rough being an under 40 prog fan and having most of your favorite bands having debuted in the 90s or earlier. The classic prog acts are my parents age. The bands who debuted in the 90s even are up in their 50s and 60s in some cases. And aside from a few acts, there arent many artists who started out in the 00s or 10s who I really care about. There seem to be a few more recent acts that are promising, but the going is hard because there just isnt the audience or promotion that there was in the 70s, 80s, or even still in the 90s.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on March 28, 2022, 03:28:12 AM
Nice to see my favorite band of all time having a decent, respectable "ending". I will remain a proud Genesis fan for the rest of my life and I am proud to be able to say I saw my first and only Genesis concert in Glasgow last year. Heartwarming to see Phil and Peter together. I will be spinning Fading Light today as well.

Another chance hello, another goodbye
And so many things we'll never see again
Days of lives that seem so unimportant
They seem to matter and to count much later on
Far away, away, fading distant lights
Leaving us all behind, lost in a changing world
And you know that these are the days of our lives, remember.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DragonAttack on March 28, 2022, 05:28:38 AM
I so remember buying the album the first month that it was out.  Part way through 'Fading Lights', I'm going "this is their swan song."

Damn....that was over thirty years ago!!!  Timeless music, unlike us, never ages.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on March 28, 2022, 08:55:53 AM
It's heart-warming to see Peter and Phil together. It's like seeing James LaBrie with Portnoy after a decade, but even MORE so because, ya know, it's Genesis, and they've been a band for over 50 years now.

-Marc.

But unlike James and MP, there was never any bad blood or ill will between Phil and Peter.  Phil was best man in Peter's 2004 wedding to his current wife.  The whole band has maintained good friendships through the years. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on March 28, 2022, 09:10:49 AM
It's heart-warming to see Peter and Phil together. It's like seeing James LaBrie with Portnoy after a decade, but even MORE so because, ya know, it's Genesis, and they've been a band for over 50 years now.

-Marc.

But unlike James and MP, there was never any bad blood or ill will between Phil and Peter.  Phil was best man in Peter's 2004 wedding to his current wife.  The whole band has maintained good friendships through the years.

That's a fair point. I think there's just a bit of fondness for seeing Phil and Peter together at a Genesis concert considering how long fans have wanted Peter to do a reunion concert/tour with Genesis but it was just never going to happen. I wasn't aware they were still that close, at least enough for Phil to be Peter's best man, so that's really cool to hear.

I guess now that Phil has essentially retired, I guess now's the time for Peter to take Genesis back! :lol Kidding... but it would be cool to see Peter do a show with Steve Hackett's band, which feels more likely than Peter doing a show with the Phil/Mike/Tony trio at this point (even if they didn't just end the band).

I do hope that they make a concert available for audio and/or video release in the future. It would be nice to have a documentation of their last tour!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on March 28, 2022, 10:14:47 AM
Yeah, they're all on good terms outside of Genesis.  When Prog magazine awarded Tony Banks with their Prog God award, it was Peter that introduced him.  The only real tensions between the band members were creative tensions, and those were mostly between Tony and Mike on one side, and Peter and Steve on the other, with Phil in the middle, and probably the most notable between Tony and Peter, and then later Tony and Steve.  With that, they were still good friends outside of the band, as that interview footage that has been posted clearly suggests. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on March 28, 2022, 10:54:04 AM
Yeah, they're all on good terms outside of Genesis.  When Prog magazine awarded Tony Banks with their Prog God award, it was Peter that introduced him.  The only real tensions between the band members were creative tensions, and those were mostly between Tony and Mike on one side, and Peter and Steve on the other, with Phil in the middle, and probably the most notable between Tony and Peter, and then later Tony and Steve.  With that, they were still good friends outside of the band, as that interview footage that has been posted clearly suggests.

I do think there has been somewhat more coldness between the remaining 3 and Steve Hackett, or at least between Tony and Steve. It feels like Tony has always been a bit dismissive of Hackett, and I get the sense that while Hackett is very fond of the music he made with Genesis, he is not very fond of what Genesis did after he left. Still probably more of a creative difference than anything personal, but they dont seem very chummy looking in from the outside.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on March 28, 2022, 03:29:20 PM
Yeah, they're all on good terms outside of Genesis.  When Prog magazine awarded Tony Banks with their Prog God award, it was Peter that introduced him.  The only real tensions between the band members were creative tensions, and those were mostly between Tony and Mike on one side, and Peter and Steve on the other, with Phil in the middle, and probably the most notable between Tony and Peter, and then later Tony and Steve.  With that, they were still good friends outside of the band, as that interview footage that has been posted clearly suggests.

Contrary to popular wisdom, I always got the sense - the Archive re-recordings notwithstanding - that PETER was just as reluctant to revisit the early days as Tony was.  In fact, maybe more so.  To my knowledge, with the exception of the '81 reunion show at Milton Keynes, Peter only ever performed "Back In NYC" after leaving.  He never had a song over 7:00, and rarely that (until his last LP).   I don't think this is really "Prog" (Peter/Steve) vs. "Pop" (Tony/Mike).  I think it's really about "past and future" and only Phil and Steve are that keen on looking back, really.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on March 28, 2022, 04:02:36 PM
Yeah, they're all on good terms outside of Genesis.  When Prog magazine awarded Tony Banks with their Prog God award, it was Peter that introduced him.  The only real tensions between the band members were creative tensions, and those were mostly between Tony and Mike on one side, and Peter and Steve on the other, with Phil in the middle, and probably the most notable between Tony and Peter, and then later Tony and Steve.  With that, they were still good friends outside of the band, as that interview footage that has been posted clearly suggests.

Contrary to popular wisdom, I always got the sense - the Archive re-recordings notwithstanding - that PETER was just as reluctant to revisit the early days as Tony was.  In fact, maybe more so.  To my knowledge, with the exception of the '81 reunion show at Milton Keynes, Peter only ever performed "Back In NYC" after leaving.  He never had a song over 7:00, and rarely that (until his last LP).   I don't think this is really "Prog" (Peter/Steve) vs. "Pop" (Tony/Mike).  I think it's really about "past and future" and only Phil and Steve are that keen on looking back, really.

PG did some of Dancing With The Moonlit Knight with Sting on their co-tour a few year back (not the whole track though).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KGLTKBpt_wo

He also used to occasionally propose working up Suppers Ready to his solo band, but it sounds like they werent really up for the challenge. I do think youre right though that Gabriel was always reluctant to go back to Genesis stuff.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on April 02, 2022, 10:31:46 AM
2nd part of the reunion was just put up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml7oiSYgtxs

Part 3 is now up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1eux1slrpE

some comments reminded me how in the actual Documentary, there was not a lot from Steve, but it was edited-out.
Also the Tony comments about The Lamb again is a reminder of Peter and Tony's feelings about it and why he left, why Peter never did a reunion, etc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lupton on April 02, 2022, 02:41:07 PM
2nd part of the reunion was just put up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml7oiSYgtxs

Part 3 is now up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1eux1slrpE

some comments reminded me how in the actual Documentary, there was not a lot from Steve, but it was edited-out.
Also the Tony comments about The Lamb again is a reminder of Peter and Tony's feelings about it and why he left, why Peter never did a reunion, etc.

Yeah .. I get the impression from watching that had they tried to get back together to do the Lamb it would have been like picking a old scab on a wound that never really healed.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on April 02, 2022, 04:14:15 PM
Steve Hackett really seems like the outcast there, as Peter Gabriel was seemingly the only one who showed him any kind of respect, although Phil Collins tried to play the diplomat a few times.  Tony Banks comes off like of a dick, as I cannot imagine any of the others having the guts to sit right next to Gabriel and trash the story of The Lamb as much as he did.  Peter Gabriel, to his credit, tried to bring it down and keep it mostly even keeled, but I have to imagine he was thinking, "See, this is why I never worked with these assholes again on a full time basis."  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Lupton on April 02, 2022, 05:25:13 PM
My favorite bit was Steve giving props to Phil and Mike for playing on Voyage of the Acolyte, to which they laughed and said they couldn't remember.  :lol  And the whole time as Steve was talking about his solo material Tony seemed somewhat uncomfortable.

Still...interesting to see these guys discuss this stuff candidly in the manner of old friends reminiscing.  :tup  Emotional maturity is generally not a trait I've come to expect from a lot of these big bands.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on April 18, 2022, 11:34:00 PM
the same fan who made those others (The Lamb, Trick, Wind & Wuthering), made a Nursery Cryme documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ4XfbpS_bc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO5hL-0MeJs

and the guy made another one, this time with Duke (his plans are to make 1 for every record, which should prove fun to keep watching).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on April 19, 2022, 10:26:42 PM
the same fan who made those others (The Lamb, Trick, Wind & Wuthering), made a Nursery Cryme documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ4XfbpS_bc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO5hL-0MeJs

and the guy made another one, this time with Duke (his plans are to make 1 for every record, which should prove fun to keep watching).

These are wonderful. I wonder where did he get all of the demo versions of the song? The acoustic take of Heathaze sounded really great.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on May 25, 2022, 10:58:42 AM
2nd part of the reunion was just put up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml7oiSYgtxs

Part 3 is now up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1eux1slrpE

some comments reminded me how in the actual Documentary, there was not a lot from Steve, but it was edited-out.
Also the Tony comments about The Lamb again is a reminder of Peter and Tony's feelings about it and why he left, why Peter never did a reunion, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX-fyhe4RK4

The 4th and final part of this uncut discussion/reunion from 2014, was just shared. A lot of it had to do with Peter's solo career and the drum sound on Intruder.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on September 05, 2022, 10:32:35 PM
It's been over a decade since the last one, so I was thinking of doing another Genesis Survivor here in the Polls/Survivor subforum.

You can view the 2012 Genesis Survivor here!
 (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=31484.0)

If it seems like I can get at least 4 or 5 folks interested, I'll start it up later this week(end). Unlike last time, I'm gonna streamline this Survivor and just stick to the main 15 studio albums, no B-Sides, non-album songs, or bonus tracks.

I've been on a Genesis kick lately, almost forgetting I wanted to bring back this Survivor, but maybe spinning their first 10 albums over the last couple of weeks has probably been a subconscious hint to do it now! Anyways, if there's interest, be sure to check the Polls/Survivor subforum here later this week to see when it'll start!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Eldomm on September 06, 2022, 03:28:43 AM
I am interested!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on September 06, 2022, 03:31:11 AM
Nice, I'll participate as best I can.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: DTA on September 06, 2022, 05:10:25 AM
I'm in
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on September 06, 2022, 06:27:29 AM
Id participate!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on September 06, 2022, 06:53:37 AM
I'm in.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on September 06, 2022, 08:04:36 AM
I'd be in on that.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SomeoneLikeHim on September 06, 2022, 11:39:02 PM
I'm in!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on September 09, 2022, 11:06:56 AM
It's been over a decade since the last one, so I was thinking of doing another Genesis Survivor here in the Polls/Survivor subforum.

You can view the 2012 Genesis Survivor here!
 (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=31484.0)

If it seems like I can get at least 4 or 5 folks interested, I'll start it up later this week(end). Unlike last time, I'm gonna streamline this Survivor and just stick to the main 15 studio albums, no B-Sides, non-album songs, or bonus tracks.

I've been on a Genesis kick lately, almost forgetting I wanted to bring back this Survivor, but maybe spinning their first 10 albums over the last couple of weeks has probably been a subconscious hint to do it now! Anyways, if there's interest, be sure to check the Polls/Survivor subforum here later this week to see when it'll start!

-Marc.

Heads up for those of us who don't swing by the survivor section very often that this is up and running now! (I just saw it a little while ago).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on December 06, 2022, 11:06:48 PM
Mike Rutherford's Smallcreep's Day is being reissued on CD on March 25th. I've never gotten to hear it before (I know I could probably find it on YouTube), so looking forward to this.

https://www.loudersound.com/news/mike-rutherfords-smallcreeps-day-to-get-cd-reissue-in-march

Looks like it may only be a UK release right now. Hopefully not too expensive to get a hold of over in the States.

So I totally forgot that this was being re-issued this year. Just saw it pop up the other day on Amazon and snatched a copy. First time hearing it tonight, and it is a wonderful album! No idea why Mike supposedly hated it so much. Has a really unique atmosphere, somewhere between Abacab, Duke, and The Lamb.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Fritzinger on December 07, 2022, 06:04:50 AM
Mike Rutherford's Smallcreep's Day is being reissued on CD on March 25th. I've never gotten to hear it before (I know I could probably find it on YouTube), so looking forward to this.

https://www.loudersound.com/news/mike-rutherfords-smallcreeps-day-to-get-cd-reissue-in-march

Looks like it may only be a UK release right now. Hopefully not too expensive to get a hold of over in the States.

So I totally forgot that this was being re-issued this year. Just saw it pop up the other day on Amazon and snatched a copy. First time hearing it tonight, and it is a wonderful album! No idea why Mike supposedly hated it so much. Has a really unique atmosphere, somewhere between Abacab, Duke, and The Lamb.

I wonder if he hated Acting Very Strange too. Because that album was... well, very strange.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on December 07, 2022, 08:03:39 AM
Mike Rutherford's Smallcreep's Day is being reissued on CD on March 25th. I've never gotten to hear it before (I know I could probably find it on YouTube), so looking forward to this.

https://www.loudersound.com/news/mike-rutherfords-smallcreeps-day-to-get-cd-reissue-in-march

Looks like it may only be a UK release right now. Hopefully not too expensive to get a hold of over in the States.

So I totally forgot that this was being re-issued this year. Just saw it pop up the other day on Amazon and snatched a copy. First time hearing it tonight, and it is a wonderful album! No idea why Mike supposedly hated it so much. Has a really unique atmosphere, somewhere between Abacab, Duke, and The Lamb.

I wonder if he hated Acting Very Strange too. Because that album was... well, very strange.

You know, that might be the one I was thinking of that he hates.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on December 09, 2022, 06:16:41 PM
Mike Rutherford's Smallcreep's Day is being reissued on CD on March 25th. I've never gotten to hear it before (I know I could probably find it on YouTube), so looking forward to this.

https://www.loudersound.com/news/mike-rutherfords-smallcreeps-day-to-get-cd-reissue-in-march

Looks like it may only be a UK release right now. Hopefully not too expensive to get a hold of over in the States.

So I totally forgot that this was being re-issued this year. Just saw it pop up the other day on Amazon and snatched a copy. First time hearing it tonight, and it is a wonderful album! No idea why Mike supposedly hated it so much. Has a really unique atmosphere, somewhere between Abacab, Duke, and The Lamb.

Also, Id never heard of this singer before, but if you had told me it was a young Roland Orzabal (Tears for Fears), I would have believed it. Uncanny really.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 10, 2022, 03:31:34 PM
Mike Rutherford's Smallcreep's Day is being reissued on CD on March 25th. I've never gotten to hear it before (I know I could probably find it on YouTube), so looking forward to this.

https://www.loudersound.com/news/mike-rutherfords-smallcreeps-day-to-get-cd-reissue-in-march

Looks like it may only be a UK release right now. Hopefully not too expensive to get a hold of over in the States.

So I totally forgot that this was being re-issued this year. Just saw it pop up the other day on Amazon and snatched a copy. First time hearing it tonight, and it is a wonderful album! No idea why Mike supposedly hated it so much. Has a really unique atmosphere, somewhere between Abacab, Duke, and The Lamb.

Not a fan of The Lamb, but the other two are in my wheelhouse so maybe I'll pick this one up.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on December 15, 2022, 12:01:52 PM
https://burningshed.com/artists/artists_genesis/genesis_watcher-of-the-skies_cd

A "new"(?) 2CD set of live shows/broadcasts from across 1972 is coming out:

Quote
Digitally remastered recordings of BBC 'in concert' and radio sessions from 1972, plus 4 tracks from a Brussels TV broadcast.
 
The innovative Gabriel, Hackett, Collins, Banks and Rutherford quintet perform early masterpieces The Musical Box, Watcher Of The Skies and The Return Of The Giant Hogweed as well as non-album oddity, Twilight Alehouse.

CD1
1. The Return Of The Giant Hogweed 7.51
2. Harold The Barrel 2.57
3. The Fountain Of Salmacis 7.41
4. Harlequin 2.39*
5. The Fountain Of Salmacis 8.31
6. Story of Old Henry/The Musical Box 12.26
7. The Return Of The Giant Hogweed 7.58
 
 
Tracks 1-4 Sounds Of The Seventies
First Broadcast: 28th January 1972, * 17th March 1972
Tracks 5-7 In Concert. First Broadcast: 11th March 1972
 
 
CD2
1. Twilight Alehouse 7.58
2. Watcher Of The Skies 7.41
3. Get'em Out By Friday 8.40
4. The Fountain Of Salmacis 7.27
5. Twilight Alehouse 5.50
6. The Musical Box 9.39
7. The Return Of The Giant Hogweed 5.45
 
 
Tracks 1-3 Top Gear
First Broadcast: 9th November 1972
Tracks 4-7 POP SHOP TV Broadcast, Brussels, Belgium
20th & 21st March 1972

If you're a fan of this era of Genesis, this might be worth a listen!

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on December 15, 2022, 01:26:06 PM
Some of these have been released before, no?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Zydar on January 12, 2023, 08:23:55 AM
A 5 CD box set of BBC broadcast recordings will be released March 3.

https://www.genesis-news.com/news-Genesis-BBC-boxset-to-be-released-soon-n843.html

CD 1: Early BBC 1970-1975
CD 2-3: Knebworth 1978 / Lyceum 1980
CD 4: Wembley 1987 / Birmingham 1998
CD 5: Knebworth 1992
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on January 12, 2023, 08:46:19 AM
A 5 CD box set of BBC broadcast recordings will be released March 3.

https://www.genesis-news.com/news-Genesis-BBC-boxset-to-be-released-soon-n843.html

CD 1: Early BBC 1970-1975
CD 2-3: Knebworth 1978 / Lyceum 1980
CD 4: Wembley 1987 / Birmingham 1998
CD 5: Knebworth 1992

Do we yet have word which of these have been released and which haven't?

Forget it; I'll be getting it just for the Knebworth/Lyceum material.  I have a fair amount of that on boots, but it'll be nice to have the set.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: emtee on January 12, 2023, 09:32:03 AM
I would have to hear the sound quality first.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on January 12, 2023, 12:02:50 PM
I have a boot of Lyceum 1980 and a lot of it is the same soundboard used for Three Sides Live, and of the same quality.  I actually combined the two in a playlist because it's awesome having the six-part Duke suite all together.  That was the only tour that they played the whole thing.

Yeah, it would be nice to sample the sound quality first, but these BBC recordings are usually pretty high quality if not very high quality.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on January 13, 2023, 08:53:33 AM
I have a boot of Lyceum 1980 and a lot of it is the same soundboard used for Three Sides Live, and of the same quality.  I actually combined the two in a playlist because it's awesome having the six-part Duke suite all together.  That was the only tour that they played the whole thing.

Yeah, it would be nice to sample the sound quality first, but these BBC recordings are usually pretty high quality if not very high quality.

So that recording will contain The Story of Albert played through?
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Max Kuehnau on January 13, 2023, 08:58:28 AM
Yes. I have a bootlegged version of the show, it's absolutely brilliant.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on January 13, 2023, 11:01:17 AM
According to the track listing, it closes out Disc 2:

10 Behind the Lines (Lyceum 80)
11 Duchess (Lyceum 80)
12 Guide Vocal (Lyceum 80)
13 Turn It On Again (Lyceum 80)
14 Duke's Travels (Lyceum 80)
15 Duke's End (Lyceum 80)


The Duke suite was originally conceived as a single piece of music, but they didn't want to do another "side-long epic" having already done that with Supper's Ready, largely because it would invite comparisons.  So they split it up, opening and closing the album, with Turn It On Again opening what was originally Side Two of the LP.  I had a friend who had a boot from the 1980 tour, and it started with a quick fade-up on Behind the Lines (I assumed it caught the bootlegger off guard) but otherwise was the entire suite.  I wanted so badly to make a copy of it, but I didn't because I knew that every time I played it, I'd be annoyed all over again.  Anyway, a legit release will be awesome even if I have a good quality boot.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on January 13, 2023, 04:41:41 PM
Just wanted to give props to side 4 of Three Sides Live.  Every one of those songs is SO DAMN GOOD.  Paperlate is cool.  Me and Virgil should resonates with anyone who grew up without a father (and is just an excellent story song).  And the other three songs were pretty much the soundtrack to one of my breakups in the early '90s.  Excellent stuff.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on January 13, 2023, 05:08:02 PM
Just wanted to give props to side 4 of Three Sides Live.  Every one of those songs is SO DAMN GOOD.  Paperlate is cool.  Me and Virgil should resonates with anyone who grew up without a father (and is just an excellent story song).  And the other three songs were pretty much the soundtrack to one of my breakups in the early '90s.  Excellent stuff.


I love Paperlate and You Might Recall, but Me and Virgil is one of my least favorite Genesis songs. Never really thought about the lyrics, but musically its got some major Waltons vibes.

Coincidentally, I just this week picked up a copy of 3 Sides Live, but I went for the remaster version with the additional live tracks since I already have those other songs from the remix boxset.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Trav86 on January 13, 2023, 05:15:35 PM
A 5 CD box set of BBC broadcast recordings will be released March 3.

https://www.genesis-news.com/news-Genesis-BBC-boxset-to-be-released-soon-n843.html

CD 1: Early BBC 1970-1975
CD 2-3: Knebworth 1978 / Lyceum 1980
CD 4: Wembley 1987 / Birmingham 1998
CD 5: Knebworth 1992

That Lyceum show!  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: pg1067 on January 14, 2023, 04:29:51 PM
I love Paperlate and You Might Recall, but Me and Virgil is one of my least favorite Genesis songs. Never really thought about the lyrics, but musically its got some major Waltons vibes.

Coincidentally, I just this week picked up a copy of 3 Sides Live, but I went for the remaster version with the additional live tracks since I already have those other songs from the remix boxset.

Waltons vibes?   :lol  I get what you're saying, though.

I find it odd that the UK version of Three Sides Live has all four sides of live material.  I put the UK version CD in my Amazon cart because I'd like to have that extra live material.  We'll see if I pull the trigger on it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on January 15, 2023, 02:19:52 PM
I love Paperlate and You Might Recall, but Me and Virgil is one of my least favorite Genesis songs. Never really thought about the lyrics, but musically its got some major Waltons vibes.

Coincidentally, I just this week picked up a copy of 3 Sides Live, but I went for the remaster version with the additional live tracks since I already have those other songs from the remix boxset.

Waltons vibes?   :lol  I get what you're saying, though.

I find it odd that the UK version of Three Sides Live has all four sides of live material.  I put the UK version CD in my Amazon cart because I'd like to have that extra live material.  We'll see if I pull the trigger on it.

Most of the studio material which made up the fourth side of Three Sides Live in the U.S. had already been officially released in the U.K.  The three tracks from the Abacab sessions made up the EP 3 x 3 (three by three), which wasn't released in the States.  The remaining two tracks were outtakes from Duke.  So for the U.K. release of Three Sides Live, they decided to fill out the fourth side with additional live material.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on January 16, 2023, 01:29:49 PM
Just wanted to give props to side 4 of Three Sides Live.  Every one of those songs is SO DAMN GOOD.  Paperlate is cool.  Me and Virgil should resonates with anyone who grew up without a father (and is just an excellent story song).  And the other three songs were pretty much the soundtrack to one of my breakups in the early '90s. Excellent stuff.

HAHAHA, to this day, "Evidence Of Autumn" reminds me of my college girlfriend.  And it's funny; I CAN'T really picture her face or form, but her memory DOES linger on!  :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on January 19, 2023, 07:12:05 AM
Just wanted to give props to side 4 of Three Sides Live.  Every one of those songs is SO DAMN GOOD.  Paperlate is cool.  Me and Virgil should resonates with anyone who grew up without a father (and is just an excellent story song).  And the other three songs were pretty much the soundtrack to one of my breakups in the early '90s.  Excellent stuff.


I love Paperlate and You Might Recall, but Me and Virgil is one of my least favorite Genesis songs. Never really thought about the lyrics, but musically its got some major Waltons vibes.

Coincidentally, I just this week picked up a copy of 3 Sides Live, but I went for the remaster version with the additional live tracks since I already have those other songs from the remix boxset.

Ok, who did this track indexing on this? They split One for the Vine up as two separate tracks, but then combined Salmacis and It (plus a snippet of Watcher of the Skies) into one track. Why? Maybe because that was all from a different show? Still doesnt make sense to split of OFTV.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on January 19, 2023, 07:55:39 AM
Just wanted to give props to side 4 of Three Sides Live.  Every one of those songs is SO DAMN GOOD.  Paperlate is cool.  Me and Virgil should resonates with anyone who grew up without a father (and is just an excellent story song).  And the other three songs were pretty much the soundtrack to one of my breakups in the early '90s.  Excellent stuff.


I love Paperlate and You Might Recall, but Me and Virgil is one of my least favorite Genesis songs. Never really thought about the lyrics, but musically its got some major Waltons vibes.

Coincidentally, I just this week picked up a copy of 3 Sides Live, but I went for the remaster version with the additional live tracks since I already have those other songs from the remix boxset.

Ok, who did this track indexing on this? They split One for the Vine up as two separate tracks, but then combined Salmacis and It (plus a snippet of Watcher of the Skies) into one track. Why? Maybe because that was all from a different show? Still doesnt make sense to split of OFTV.

To my knowledge, that had nothing to do with the show itself, it was a mistake in mastering.  The songs are all from different shows.  "One For The Vine" is from that May 5 show from Drury Lane in London, "Fountain Of Salmacis" says "unknown", but I think it's from Knebworth in England from 1978, and "it/Watcher Of The Skies" (It's really "it" with the intro to "Watcher..." attached as a sort of coda) is from the same July 1976 show(s) from Glasgow that was featured in the "In Concert" film.

I actually re-edited it on my iPod to fix the mistake.  It was ultimately fixed on the 2009 box sets.

Also, FYI, the music on the video "Three Sides Live" is largely different than the music on the album.   
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Max Kuehnau on January 19, 2023, 07:58:51 AM
I see them as being companion pieces (and I have them both and I love them, had it on tape as a child and on Bluray now, which is brilliant)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on June 06, 2023, 12:05:55 PM
Just got tickets for The Musical Box on June 15th, doing the full Lamb Lies Down show, in Norwalk, CT.   I was just for shits and giggles looking at the The Musical Box website (not one of the best in the world, mind you) and saw the shows, three of them, one in CT and two in NY, coming up in a week or so.

I've seen them three times - two with the "Selling England..." setlist, including one "The Black Show", and Vol. 2 of the "Extravaganza" setlist - and they are phenomenal.  I've missed the three previous Lamb tours for various reasons, so I'm really jazzed to see it finally.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: emtee on June 06, 2023, 12:10:07 PM
Did some painting last weekend and spun ABACAB. Seriously love that album minus one bad song. Many memories tied to it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Letter M on June 06, 2023, 12:15:50 PM
Happy 37th Birthday to Invisible Touch! And a couple days ago on the 4th, Three Sides Live turned 41 years old!

Sorry if this post made any of you feel old(er)! :lol

-Marc.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: billboy73 on June 06, 2023, 12:36:57 PM
Did some painting last weekend and spun ABACAB. Seriously love that album minus one bad song. Many memories tied to it.

ABACAB is the album that I would have ranked lower in their discography a few years ago, but over the past few years it has really grown on me.  I love a lot of the quirkiness of that album.  Dodo/Lurker is my favorite Genesis song, and I love pretty much everything on ABACAB including the stuff they left off the album.  Even that one bad song (Whodunnit I'm guessing) scratches an itch every one in awhile. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on June 06, 2023, 01:25:41 PM
Did some painting last weekend and spun ABACAB. Seriously love that album minus one bad song. Many memories tied to it.

ABACAB is great. Have always loved it (minus the one song I imagine you are referring to! If only You Might Recall were there instead!).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on June 06, 2023, 01:26:14 PM
Did some painting last weekend and spun ABACAB. Seriously love that album minus one bad song. Many memories tied to it.

ABACAB is the album that I would have ranked lower in their discography a few years ago, but over the past few years it has really grown on me.  I love a lot of the quirkiness of that album.  Dodo/Lurker is my favorite Genesis song, and I love pretty much everything on ABACAB including the stuff they left off the album.  Even that one bad song (Whodunnit I'm guessing) scratches an itch every one in awhile.

There's a semi-apocryphal "ABACAB Complete" that purports to be a radio-promo cassette release with the other songs from the sessions (including the full "Dodo Suite").  I have that playlist on my iPod. When - NOT IF, WHEN! Haha - Kev does his Genesis song countdown, "You Might Recall" will likely be in my top 15.  On any given Sunday, Abacab is my favorite Genesis album (it was also my first, so there's that).   I love that record.   Beautiful sound, beautiful playing...  everything I want in a Genesis record. 

EDIT:  Also, for having "Man On The Corner" and "No Reply At All", it's also in it's own way one of the more truly PROGRESSIVE records in the catalogue.    Every song is very different, and there are some real adventurous things going on, almost subversively (the "riddle" of the Lurker, the structure of "Me And Sarah Jane", the introduction of the horns, etc.). 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on June 06, 2023, 02:18:46 PM
Abacab is not my favorite Genesis record (that would probably be Duke) but it's nonetheless a great one.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 06, 2023, 06:45:44 PM
Just got tickets for The Musical Box on June 15th, doing the full Lamb Lies Down show, in Norwalk, CT.   I was just for shits and giggles looking at the The Musical Box website (not one of the best in the world, mind you) and saw the shows, three of them, one in CT and two in NY, coming up in a week or so.

I've seen them three times - two with the "Selling England..." setlist, including one "The Black Show", and Vol. 2 of the "Extravaganza" setlist - and they are phenomenal.  I've missed the three previous Lamb tours for various reasons, so I'm really jazzed to see it finally.

Saw them two weeks ago. They never disappoint. Saw them a few years ago do an abbreviated Lamb set and it was the first time that album clicked with me. Couldn't wait to go back and listen to it in my car and my reaction was, "Meh, I appreciate it more now but fuck it doesn't translate as well when not live."

After the show 2 weeks ago, I concur with my opinion.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on June 18, 2023, 06:47:40 PM
Did some painting last weekend and spun ABACAB. Seriously love that album minus one bad song. Many memories tied to it.

That whole era Seconds Out through Genesis is GOLD to me. Can't go a few weeks without listening to something.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on June 19, 2023, 05:22:12 AM
By the way, I didn't write a formal review, but The Musical Box SLAYED this past week performing the Lamb.  SO freaking good, and gave the album (already a favorite of mine) new life.  Even if it did sort of reinforce that idea that the second half meanders a little bit!  :)   I was once again blown away by Marc Laflamme, who does complete justice to the drumming of Phil Collins, as well as the full commitment of Denis Gagn in the role of Peter Gabriel. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on June 19, 2023, 09:45:44 PM
By the way, I didn't write a formal review, but The Musical Box SLAYED this past week performing the Lamb.  SO freaking good, and gave the album (already a favorite of mine) new life.  Even if it did sort of reinforce that idea that the second half meanders a little bit!  :)   I was once again blown away by Marc Laflamme, who does complete justice to the drumming of Phil Collins, as well as the full commitment of Denis Gagn in the role of Peter Gabriel.

Remember when we used to disagree on everything? Well, those days are long gone. Although I would say the entire band blew me away. Also, I previously mentioned Lamb is probably my least favorite Genesis album but KILLS in concert. Even with my newfound appreciation, the second half definitely meanders. We actually had to leave early because the damn thing started late, we couldn't get a hotel within a half hour drive, and had we stayed it wouldn't have finished til midnight. So imbsad I missed some but hey, the second half is definitely weaker
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on June 20, 2023, 06:43:48 AM
By the way, I didn't write a formal review, but The Musical Box SLAYED this past week performing the Lamb.  SO freaking good, and gave the album (already a favorite of mine) new life.  Even if it did sort of reinforce that idea that the second half meanders a little bit!  :)   I was once again blown away by Marc Laflamme, who does complete justice to the drumming of Phil Collins, as well as the full commitment of Denis Gagn in the role of Peter Gabriel.

Remember when we used to disagree on everything? Well, those days are long gone. Although I would say the entire band blew me away. Also, I previously mentioned Lamb is probably my least favorite Genesis album but KILLS in concert. Even with my newfound appreciation, the second half definitely meanders. We actually had to leave early because the damn thing started late, we couldn't get a hotel within a half hour drive, and had we stayed it wouldn't have finished til midnight. So imbsad I missed some but hey, the second half is definitely weaker

HAHA.  That's the beauty of getting old!!!

Yeah, live is really a revelation; I'm sorry you didn't get to see the whole thing.  "it" was one of those revelatory moments for me; it REALLY came to life live (sorry, I don't mean to rub it in).  I don't know if it was planned this way at the writing stages or not, but certainly there was a LOT of thought put into the production.   There were a couple moments where I thought to myself "that's a really neat, subtle detail!" 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on June 24, 2023, 12:59:52 PM
By the way, I didn't write a formal review, but The Musical Box SLAYED this past week performing the Lamb.  SO freaking good, and gave the album (already a favorite of mine) new life.  Even if it did sort of reinforce that idea that the second half meanders a little bit!  :)   I was once again blown away by Marc Laflamme, who does complete justice to the drumming of Phil Collins, as well as the full commitment of Denis Gagn in the role of Peter Gabriel.

Remember when we used to disagree on everything? Well, those days are long gone. Although I would say the entire band blew me away. Also, I previously mentioned Lamb is probably my least favorite Genesis album but KILLS in concert. Even with my newfound appreciation, the second half definitely meanders. We actually had to leave early because the damn thing started late, we couldn't get a hotel within a half hour drive, and had we stayed it wouldn't have finished til midnight. So imbsad I missed some but hey, the second half is definitely weaker

Still not a fan of it but Kevin Gilbert's live version wasn't that bad.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 25, 2023, 07:49:51 AM
Feels like a good time to revisit this thread, now that the top bands countdown has moved on to the next artist.  That way, we can go to work on twosuitsluke to get him into Genesis.  :hat :hat



Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 25, 2023, 10:24:49 AM
Ive gotten on a big Genesis kick the last few weeks for whatever reason. Listening to a bunch of live stuff mostly, but also was revisiting their self-titled album, which is actually the first full Genesis album I heard. I know Luke doesnt like the sound of the 80s, so thats probably not a great one to start with. But man Second Home By The Sea remains one of the most gorgeous pieces of music they wrote. The best parts of Genesis are where they hit on one big soaring melody, usually a Banks keyboard theme but sometimes a Hackett guitar theme. Think Second Home, Cinema Show, the end of Suppers Ready, Stagnation, Fading Lights, One For the Vine, All in a Mouse's Night, etc. So many of them, but all so good.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 25, 2023, 10:55:48 AM
Ive gotten on a big Genesis kick the last few weeks for whatever reason. Listening to a bunch of live stuff mostly, but also was revisiting their self-titled album, which is actually the first full Genesis album I heard. I know Luke doesnt like the sound of the 80s, so thats probably not a great one to start with. But man Second Home By The Sea remains one of the most gorgeous pieces of music they wrote. The best parts of Genesis are where they hit on one big soaring melody, usually a Banks keyboard theme but sometimes a Hackett guitar theme. Think Second Home, Cinema Show, the end of Suppers Ready, Stagnation, Fading Lights, etc. So many of them, but all so good.

Generally speaking, I agree.  Even on the later albums when the songs got more accessible, it was the music that usually carried the day.  I remember Mama being the first Genesis song of which I ever took note thanks to MTV playing it a lot, and the 10-year old me thought that main keyboard melody was one of the raddest things I had ever heard.  I was an instant fan thanks to that keyboard melody alone.

Back to recs, I think Bill's post from the other thread (that I will quote here) was a good suggestion:

If you listen to Selling England..., Wind And Withering, Duke and Invisible Touch and don't like it, then you probably aren't going to be a fan.

With those four albums, you'll pretty much get a great overview of every Genesis era, style, etc. 

As much as I love The Lamb, that is too big a hurdle for a newbie, but once you are a fan and give it a whirl...stand back.  :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 25, 2023, 10:59:41 AM
Yeah, I'd personally probably shy away from The Lamb to start, but maybe if the bizarre and avant garde are more of Luke's thing, that one might work for him. I think of The Lamb as a good idea that just got bloated down by Gabriel's excessive wordiness, and it probably could have been cut down to a more effective single album, but it does have its moments for sure.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 25, 2023, 11:33:28 AM
Gabriel had written so many lyrics that they briefly considered making The Lamb a triple album.  A lot of the musical ideas could have been expanded, etc.

As it is, I agree with the basic criticism that the second half meanders a bit and kinda loses me, though there are some bright spots along the way.  I don't know if cutting it all the way back to a single LP would've been the answer, though.  In the CD and digital age, the exact length of an album doesn't matter quite as much.  It might've been a pretty good 60-minute album.  But that would be 1.5 LPs.  What do you do with the fourth side?  Concept albums, especially concept story albums, tended to be 2 LPs just because they seemed to demand more than a single LP to flesh out the concept.  So that's what they went with.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 25, 2023, 12:17:51 PM
FYI, I tried to cover the "Gabriel wordiness" with Selling; "The Battle of Epping Forest" is like a 10-minute synopsis of The Lamb, in a way.   ;)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 25, 2023, 12:51:06 PM
Outside of The Waiting Room, which is useless and annoying, there is not much on The Lamb I'd want to lose.  I suppose you could lose Silent Sorrows... and Ravine, but concept albums often have/need an ambient/transitional piece or two to help the flow and add a bit of texture and character.  I cannot think of what else on Disc 2 I'd wanna see go.  For my money, outside of the start of the album through In the Cage, the 3-song run of Anyway, Here Comes... and The Lamia is the best stretch of music on the record.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on November 25, 2023, 03:10:20 PM
I actually started with The Lamb back in '96 after seeing Portnoy talk about it in some interview, and while I liked some of it, it took me at least 3-4 years til I checked out the previous records to finally get into Genesis. I even recall picking up Calling All Stations in '97 when "Congo" was being played on the radio, but only vaguely liking it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 26, 2023, 07:08:06 AM
I still have never heard Calling All Stations and have zero desire to check it out.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 26, 2023, 12:08:37 PM
I consider it for completists only.  Banks and Rutherford are both excellent musicians and can be pretty good songwriters, so it's not like the final album is totally without merit.  There's some good stuff.  But the album overall suffers from being only half-baked (by their own admission) and the songs are pretty inconsistent.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on November 26, 2023, 01:21:46 PM
The Dividing Line is great, although at least some of the record comes across like if Neal Morse was fronting Pink Floyd.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 26, 2023, 01:29:41 PM
I still have never heard Calling All Stations and have zero desire to check it out.

I enjoy the majority of it. It lacks the dynamic front man presence of a Gabriel or Collins, but the music is still pretty good and for the most part Ray Wilson does a good job with the material he was given. There is a sense of a lot of the songs feeling unfinished with all the fadeouts, but there are some classic Genesis-type moments as well.

Uncertain Weather is a beautiful song, The Dividing Line is a drumming tour de force, and several of the songs hit a little harder than prior Genesis material. The title track has a really meaty lead guitar line that I wish we would have heard more of from Rutherford. There Must Be Some Other Way is really strong, and Ones Man Fool is a nice closer.

The album kind of lives and dies with the ballads. I like Shipwrecked and Not About Us well enough, but they dont really sound like Genesis. If Thats What You Need is pretty awful though.

A lot of people hate Congo, but I think that one would have fit in well on the previous two albums, and Ive always enjoyed it for what it is.

The three unreleased tracks that are featured on the 2007 Box Set are all really good and could have improved the album considerably in favor of some of the tracks that made it.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 26, 2023, 01:41:02 PM
I'll take your word for it. ;)

Back to the good stuff, I have been checking out some of their b-sides/non album tracks lately that I had previous never heard.  Some good stuff in there. Paperlate feels like a song I had to have heard somewhere, but I cannot imagine where that would have been.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 26, 2023, 01:45:45 PM
I'll take your word for it. ;)

Back to the good stuff, I have been checking out some of their b-sides/non album tracks lately that I had previous never heard.  Some good stuff in there. Paperlate feels like a song I had to have heard somewhere, but I cannot imagine where that would have been.

Paperlate had a video that may have been played on MTV back in the day. Its a great song.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on November 26, 2023, 02:03:44 PM
There are two versions of Three Sides Live. One consists completey of live version, the other one has some studio tracks on the fourth side, among them Paperlate and other songs from the 3x3 EP and some Duke b-sides.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 26, 2023, 02:38:31 PM
Listening to CAS now, and I think Id be willing to say its on the same level as We Cant Dance. I probably listen to it more than We Cant Dance. Its better than most prog bands produced at the end of their careers.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 26, 2023, 05:04:23 PM
I'll take your word for it. ;)

Back to the good stuff, I have been checking out some of their b-sides/non album tracks lately that I had previous never heard.  Some good stuff in there. Paperlate feels like a song I had to have heard somewhere, but I cannot imagine where that would have been.

Paperlate had a video that may have been played on MTV back in the day. Its a great song.

Hmmm, I will have to seek that out and see if I remember the video. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on November 26, 2023, 08:36:14 PM
Paperlate feels like a song I had to have heard somewhere, but I cannot imagine where that would have been.

Paperlate got considerable airplay, at least where we live (Midwest).  It was the "other" Genesis song with the Phoenix Horns (aka the Earth, Wind & Fire horn section).  The one everyone knows was No Reply At All.  Both were recorded during the Abacab sessions, but they felt like they should only keep one for the album, so No Reply At All became the single and Paperlate was relegated to B-side/unreleased status.  That is, until it showed up on the (original) U.S. release of Three Sides Live.  I definitely remember hearing it on the radio around then.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 26, 2023, 08:47:43 PM
Paperlate feels like a song I had to have heard somewhere, but I cannot imagine where that would have been.

Paperlate got considerable airplay, at least where we live (Midwest).  It was the "other" Genesis song with the Phoenix Horns (aka the Earth, Wind & Fire horn section).  The one everyone knows was No Reply At All.  Both were recorded during the Abacab sessions, but they felt like they should only keep one for the album, so No Reply At All became the single and Paperlate was relegated to B-side/unreleased status.  That is, until it showed up on the (original) U.S. release of Three Sides Live.  I definitely remember hearing it on the radio around then.

I can understand that decision at the time as they probably thought that two songs with the horns might be too much, but what I cannot understand is how they thought Who Dunnit? was good enough to put on the record.  I never heard that song until a few years ago, and I remember thinking, "this probably won't be as bad as everyone says it is."  And yet it was. :lol  Just goes to show that even the best bands swing and miss badly sometimes, even when otherwise on their game.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on November 27, 2023, 12:20:06 AM
Listening to CAS now, and I think Id be willing to say its on the same level as We Cant Dance. I probably listen to it more than We Cant Dance. Its better than most prog bands produced at the end of their careers.

I finally gave Calling All Stations a go some years ago. For me it's a clear step down from We Can't Dance but it's still a solid pop record. This may be their worst but it is far from their St. Anger or their Dedicated 2 Chaos. And like Orbert already mentioned, it feels unfinished, could have probably been better if given more time and effort.

And I think Ray Wilson is a really good singer.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 27, 2023, 06:38:33 AM
Paperlate feels like a song I had to have heard somewhere, but I cannot imagine where that would have been.

Paperlate got considerable airplay, at least where we live (Midwest).  It was the "other" Genesis song with the Phoenix Horns (aka the Earth, Wind & Fire horn section).  The one everyone knows was No Reply At All.  Both were recorded during the Abacab sessions, but they felt like they should only keep one for the album, so No Reply At All became the single and Paperlate was relegated to B-side/unreleased status.  That is, until it showed up on the (original) U.S. release of Three Sides Live.  I definitely remember hearing it on the radio around then.

I can understand that decision at the time as they probably thought that two songs with the horns might be too much, but what I cannot understand is how they thought Who Dunnit? was good enough to put on the record.  I never heard that song until a few years ago, and I remember thinking, "this probably won't be as bad as everyone says it is."  And yet it was. :lol  Just goes to show that even the best bands swing and miss badly sometimes, even when otherwise on their game.

Tony talks about this a bit in the interviews that came with the box sets a couple years ago.   ABACAB is - FOR GENESIS - a very progressive record, in terms of doing things that they hadn't done before.    Some of it is sort of lost on listeners - "No Reply At All" and "Me And Sarah Jane" don't SOUND all that progressive - but the running rule was to avoid all the sort of things that people thought of when they thought "Genesis".  The use of horns; the first time the band had guest musicians on a track (not really true; Brian Eno performed on The Lamb, for example, but this was a prominent place on the song).   Unusual song structures ("MASJ" is in I think five parts and none of them repeat throughout the song).   Most of the songs (six out of nine) were written from jam sessions between the three band members, a trick first started during the Duke sessions.  They purposefully nixed the idea of a suite (the "Dodo/Lurker/Submarine/Naminanu" or "Naminanu/Dodo/Lurker/Submarine" run, depending who you listen to; the other two songs were b-sides) because they flirted with that on Duke.

"Whodunnit?" was supposed to show that they didn't take themselves so seriously.  It was SUPPOSED to be different.  The band loved it; they played it live, switching instruments (Rutherford played drums with Chester during the song), and it was almost a single.  Ahmet Ertegun, label head, WANTED it as a single. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Kwyjibo on November 27, 2023, 07:22:48 AM
All cool, but to me its still an annoying song.  :D
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 27, 2023, 07:25:38 AM
I seem to recall the band calling Whodunnit their own twist on (or maybe parody of) punk, but maybe Im making that up. It makes more sense from an irreverent art rock standpoint though. Taking the piss as they say in old England.

But yeah, Id certainly have rather heard any of You Might Recall, Paperlate, Naminanu, or Submarine in its place.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 27, 2023, 10:06:54 AM


Tony talks about this a bit in the interviews that came with the box sets a couple years ago.   ABACAB is - FOR GENESIS - a very progressive record, in terms of doing things that they hadn't done before.    Some of it is sort of lost on listeners - "No Reply At All" and "Me And Sarah Jane" don't SOUND all that progressive - but the running rule was to avoid all the sort of things that people thought of when they thought "Genesis".  The use of horns; the first time the band had guest musicians on a track (not really true; Brian Eno performed on The Lamb, for example, but this was a prominent place on the song).   Unusual song structures ("MASJ" is in I think five parts and none of them repeat throughout the song).   Most of the songs (six out of nine) were written from jam sessions between the three band members, a trick first started during the Duke sessions.  They purposefully nixed the idea of a suite (the "Dodo/Lurker/Submarine/Naminanu" or "Naminanu/Dodo/Lurker/Submarine" run, depending who you listen to; the other two songs were b-sides) because they flirted with that on Duke.

"Whodunnit?" was supposed to show that they didn't take themselves so seriously.  It was SUPPOSED to be different.  The band loved it; they played it live, switching instruments (Rutherford played drums with Chester during the song), and it was almost a single.  Ahmet Ertegun, label head, WANTED it as a single.

That's the funny thing about writing songs.  You just never know which ones are going to age well and which ones might not actually be all that good in the first place.

Abacab tends to get lost in the mix for me, being sandwiched in between Duke and s/t, but I am really enjoying it lately. :coolio :coolio
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 27, 2023, 08:10:39 PM
Random thought: I will stand by Blood on the Rooftops as being one of the most gorgeous songs the band ever did.  That song is something else. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Metro on November 27, 2023, 08:20:02 PM
Anybody here seen The Musical Box? They're coming to Alexandria in January and I'm curious.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 27, 2023, 08:43:40 PM
Random thought: I will stand by Blood on the Rooftops as being one of the most gorgeous songs the band ever did.  That song is something else. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

Agree. Come back to it just about as often as any other Genesis song.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SomeoneLikeHim on November 27, 2023, 11:49:34 PM
Anybody here seen The Musical Box? They're coming to Alexandria in January and I'm curious.

Seen them 4 times, highly recommend!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 28, 2023, 06:00:54 AM
Random thought: I will stand by Blood on the Rooftops as being one of the most gorgeous songs the band ever did.  That song is something else. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

Agree. Come back to it just about as often as any other Genesis song.

Yup, it's amazing.

On the flip side, I am still trying to figure out how Your Own Special Way got past the guards to make it on to W&W.  Same goes for More Fool Me with Selling England.

I would say the two Genesis albums I can listen to and don't even think about skipping over any song are A Trick of the Tail and Duke.  Trick is a top 3 Genesis album for me along with Selling England and The Lamb.  Even though Duke is consistent and has some really good highs, I don't think its highs are among the band's best.  To unpack that a little, if we did a top x-number of songs for Genesis, I doubt anything would make my top 20 (maybe one would squeeze in near the bottom), but if we went 50 deep, there'd probably be 5-6 in the 21-50 range.  Just spitballing, but there is no The Cinema Show or Supper's Ready or Mad Man Moon or The Lamia on Duke, for me.  Still a damn good record, regardless.  :tup :tup
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 28, 2023, 06:54:57 AM
Anybody here seen The Musical Box? They're coming to Alexandria in January and I'm curious.

GO!!!!!!!!

I've seen them five times now (including the Lamb show, which is otherworldly, and the "Extravaganza" tour, in which they did songs from the "four man" incarnation), and will basically go every time they come close.

GO!!!!!!!

Other than the Lamb show, which is, predictably, the Lamb show, :), they've done Supper's Ready and The Cinema Show every time.  SR is just glorious and immersive, but the treat, the star of the show, is "The Cinema Show"; they "reduce" it down to "Mike Rutherford" (Sebastian Lamothe, the bass player and musical leader of the band IRL), "Phil Collins" (Marc Laflamme, for three of the four shows I've seen, and a BEAST on drums) and "Tony Banks" (Ian Benhamou) for the middle section, like Genesis used to do it, and it's sublime.  The music is so pure and spot on - but it's LIVE, which makes it all the difference in the world from just sitting in your living room - I just close my eyes and let it wash over me. 

GO!!!!!!!!

Denis Gagne is the singer, and it's almost freaky how directly he channels Peter Gabriel; he stays in character throughout the show, even replicating some of Peter's better known between-song banters ("Jerusalem Boogie to us, perhaps. But to the birds it meant that supper was ready."). He also wears all the costumes (many donated to him from Peter himself) during the show, including the Box Head, the Flower, and the Old Man mask (during "The Musical Box").

GO!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 28, 2023, 07:33:20 AM
Random thought: I will stand by Blood on the Rooftops as being one of the most gorgeous songs the band ever did.  That song is something else. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

Agree. Come back to it just about as often as any other Genesis song.

Yup, it's amazing.

On the flip side, I am still trying to figure out how Your Own Special Way got past the guards to make it on to W&W.  Same goes for More Fool Me with Selling England.

I would say the two Genesis albums I can listen to and don't even think about skipping over any song are A Trick of the Tail and Duke.  Trick is a top 3 Genesis album for me along with Selling England and The Lamb.  Even though Duke is consistent and has some really good highs, I don't think its highs are among the band's best.  To unpack that a little, if we did a top x-number of songs for Genesis, I doubt anything would make my top 20 (maybe one would squeeze in near the bottom), but if we went 50 deep, there'd probably be 5-6 in the 21-50 range.  Just spitballing, but there is no The Cinema Show or Supper's Ready or Mad Man Moon or The Lamia on Duke, for me.  Still a damn good record, regardless.  :tup :tup

Its interesting, because Duke is my favorite Genesis album, but I agree it is maybe more of a sum of its parts thing. I think the Behind The Lines/Guide Vocal/Dukes Travels/Dukes End collectively are up there with any of the other great Genesis moments musically, but being separated across the record maybe obscures that a little. I love Duchess and Man of Our Times as well, but they are more album tracks maybe. Please Dont Ask is also perfect where it sits on the album. Alone Tonight is the underrated gem from Duke IMO.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: emtee on November 28, 2023, 07:47:45 AM
Random thought: I will stand by Blood on the Rooftops as being one of the most gorgeous songs the band ever did.  That song is something else. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy


Amen!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: romdrums on November 28, 2023, 07:55:18 AM
Random thought: I will stand by Blood on the Rooftops as being one of the most gorgeous songs the band ever did.  That song is something else. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

Agree. Come back to it just about as often as any other Genesis song.

Yup, it's amazing.

On the flip side, I am still trying to figure out how Your Own Special Way got past the guards to make it on to W&W. 

I substituted Inside & Out for Your Own Special Way and it flows a bit better.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 28, 2023, 08:06:40 AM
Random thought: I will stand by Blood on the Rooftops as being one of the most gorgeous songs the band ever did.  That song is something else. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

Agree. Come back to it just about as often as any other Genesis song.

Yup, it's amazing.

On the flip side, I am still trying to figure out how Your Own Special Way got past the guards to make it on to W&W.  Same goes for More Fool Me with Selling England.

I would say the two Genesis albums I can listen to and don't even think about skipping over any song are A Trick of the Tail and Duke.  Trick is a top 3 Genesis album for me along with Selling England and The Lamb.  Even though Duke is consistent and has some really good highs, I don't think its highs are among the band's best.  To unpack that a little, if we did a top x-number of songs for Genesis, I doubt anything would make my top 20 (maybe one would squeeze in near the bottom), but if we went 50 deep, there'd probably be 5-6 in the 21-50 range.  Just spitballing, but there is no The Cinema Show or Supper's Ready or Mad Man Moon or The Lamia on Duke, for me.  Still a damn good record, regardless.  :tup :tup

Its interesting, because Duke is my favorite Genesis album, but I agree it is maybe more of a sum of its parts thing. I think the Behind The Lines/Guide Vocal/Dukes Travels/Dukes End collectively are up there with any of the other great Genesis moments musically, but being separated across the record maybe obscures that a little. I love Duchess and Man of Our Times as well, but they are more album tracks maybe. Please Dont Ask is also perfect where it sits on the album. Alone Tonight is the underrated gem from Duke IMO.

Couple things:  do you ever play with Playlists?   I reordered Duke once to have the suite together, and the other songs as side two. I also had a playlist with the "Abacab Complete" (much like the famous tape that the band sent to journalists in advance of the Abacab release that had all the b-sides on it, as well as the Dodo suite).  You can also do a suite with Dance On A Volcano, It's Yourself, and Los Endos.

Also, I'm SURE we've talked about this before, but find the solo "Please Don't Ask" from the "Face Value" behind the album DVD.  It's just Phil at the piano; he tells the story behind it, and it's incredibly moving.  He even takes a pause after playing it and you know it means something more to him.

I love those non-suite songs on Duke.  All of them. Heathaze and Cul-de-sac are both underrated gems, IMO.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 28, 2023, 08:48:00 AM
Random thought: I will stand by Blood on the Rooftops as being one of the most gorgeous songs the band ever did.  That song is something else. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

Agree. Come back to it just about as often as any other Genesis song.

Yup, it's amazing.

On the flip side, I am still trying to figure out how Your Own Special Way got past the guards to make it on to W&W.  Same goes for More Fool Me with Selling England.

I would say the two Genesis albums I can listen to and don't even think about skipping over any song are A Trick of the Tail and Duke.  Trick is a top 3 Genesis album for me along with Selling England and The Lamb.  Even though Duke is consistent and has some really good highs, I don't think its highs are among the band's best.  To unpack that a little, if we did a top x-number of songs for Genesis, I doubt anything would make my top 20 (maybe one would squeeze in near the bottom), but if we went 50 deep, there'd probably be 5-6 in the 21-50 range.  Just spitballing, but there is no The Cinema Show or Supper's Ready or Mad Man Moon or The Lamia on Duke, for me.  Still a damn good record, regardless.  :tup :tup

Its interesting, because Duke is my favorite Genesis album, but I agree it is maybe more of a sum of its parts thing. I think the Behind The Lines/Guide Vocal/Dukes Travels/Dukes End collectively are up there with any of the other great Genesis moments musically, but being separated across the record maybe obscures that a little. I love Duchess and Man of Our Times as well, but they are more album tracks maybe. Please Dont Ask is also perfect where it sits on the album. Alone Tonight is the underrated gem from Duke IMO.

Couple things:  do you ever play with Playlists?   I reordered Duke once to have the suite together, and the other songs as side two. I also had a playlist with the "Abacab Complete" (much like the famous tape that the band sent to journalists in advance of the Abacab release that had all the b-sides on it, as well as the Dodo suite).  You can also do a suite with Dance On A Volcano, It's Yourself, and Los Endos.

Also, I'm SURE we've talked about this before, but find the solo "Please Don't Ask" from the "Face Value" behind the album DVD.  It's just Phil at the piano; he tells the story behind it, and it's incredibly moving.  He even takes a pause after playing it and you know it means something more to him.

I love those non-suite songs on Duke.  All of them. Heathaze and Cul-de-sac are both underrated gems, IMO.

Oh yeah, Ive re-done Abacab with the Dodo suite several ways in the past. Never felt the need to reorder Duke, but Ive heard the Duke suite reassembled before. I feel like Duke flows like a story the way it is, so I hate to mess with that order.

And yeah, weve talked about that performance of Please Dont Ask. It is really great!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Madman Shepherd on November 28, 2023, 08:53:51 AM
Anybody here seen The Musical Box? They're coming to Alexandria in January and I'm curious.

Seen them 4 times, highly recommend!

I've seen them 5 or 6 times if that any indication if how awesome they are.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 28, 2023, 09:00:58 AM
Random thought: I will stand by Blood on the Rooftops as being one of the most gorgeous songs the band ever did.  That song is something else. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

Agree. Come back to it just about as often as any other Genesis song.

Yup, it's amazing.

On the flip side, I am still trying to figure out how Your Own Special Way got past the guards to make it on to W&W. 

I substituted Inside & Out for Your Own Special Way and it flows a bit better.

It's funny; W&W is a top five album ALL TIME for me, and yet... I HATE "Your Own Special Way".  Sappy, dippy, and not really up to snuff with the rest of the record.  A record that is, for me, SO GOOD otherwise that it still reaches the top five. 


Why?  Because when I first got into Genesis, I was still making cassette tapes. Funny enough - almost as if the band KNEW but didn't want to tell Mike Rutherford - the album is 51:03 long, and by cutting "YOSW" (6:19), you get 44 minutes, 44 seconds, PERFECT for one side of a 90-minute Maxell tape.  ;)  (And funny enough, ATOTT minus "Robbery, Assault and Battery" fits just as well.   Funny enough, RA&B is also my least favorite on ATOTT, though it slays on Seconds Out).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 28, 2023, 09:10:56 AM
I dont mind Your Own Special Way, but it is definitely an inferior song to Inside & Out and the most skippable track on W&W. Mike was really trying to write that hit tune, man.

Its funny, because as much as people want to blame Phil for Genesis going pop, Rutherford is the one behind a lot of their hits . Follow You Follow Me, Turn It On Again, Land of Confusion, Throwing it All Away, and then Your Own Special Way and More Fool Me were his as well.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 28, 2023, 09:17:42 AM
I dont mind Your Own Special Way, but it is definitely an inferior song to Inside & Out and the most skippable track on W&W. Mike was really trying to write that hit tune, man.

Its funny, because as much as people want to blame Phil for Genesis going pop, Rutherford is the one behind a lot of their hits . Follow You Follow Me, Turn It On Again, Land of Confusion, Throwing it All Away, and then Your Own Special Way and More Fool Me were his as well.

And he walked away from prog just as stridently as Collins did, he just called it "Mike + the Mechanics".  In fact, moreso, because Mike didn't do the instrumental guest appearances that Collins did, and didn't have anything like Phil's big band stuff.   

FYI, More Fool Me may be my least favorite Gabriel era song. Even worse than "The Waiting Room".  I hated when Phil sang in that falsetto.   ;) :) :)
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 28, 2023, 09:27:47 AM
The problem with More Fool Me and Your Own Special way is more that the melodies are just kind of awkward. I dont mind the Collins falsetto so much. Theres an Anthony Phillips track that he sang on, Which Way the Wind Blows, where Phil sings in a similar way but its just a much more pleasant melody that it works fine.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 28, 2023, 12:23:42 PM


I substituted Inside & Out for Your Own Special Way and it flows a bit better.

Ahhhhh, I may need to try that. I could see that working perfectly.

Random thought: I will stand by Blood on the Rooftops as being one of the most gorgeous songs the band ever did.  That song is something else. :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

Agree. Come back to it just about as often as any other Genesis song.

Yup, it's amazing.

On the flip side, I am still trying to figure out how Your Own Special Way got past the guards to make it on to W&W.  Same goes for More Fool Me with Selling England.

I would say the two Genesis albums I can listen to and don't even think about skipping over any song are A Trick of the Tail and Duke.  Trick is a top 3 Genesis album for me along with Selling England and The Lamb.  Even though Duke is consistent and has some really good highs, I don't think its highs are among the band's best.  To unpack that a little, if we did a top x-number of songs for Genesis, I doubt anything would make my top 20 (maybe one would squeeze in near the bottom), but if we went 50 deep, there'd probably be 5-6 in the 21-50 range.  Just spitballing, but there is no The Cinema Show or Supper's Ready or Mad Man Moon or The Lamia on Duke, for me.  Still a damn good record, regardless.  :tup :tup

Its interesting, because Duke is my favorite Genesis album, but I agree it is maybe more of a sum of its parts thing. I think the Behind The Lines/Guide Vocal/Dukes Travels/Dukes End collectively are up there with any of the other great Genesis moments musically, but being separated across the record maybe obscures that a little. I love Duchess and Man of Our Times as well, but they are more album tracks maybe. Please Dont Ask is also perfect where it sits on the album. Alone Tonight is the underrated gem from Duke IMO.

Couple things:  do you ever play with Playlists?   I reordered Duke once to have the suite together, and the other songs as side two. I also had a playlist with the "Abacab Complete" (much like the famous tape that the band sent to journalists in advance of the Abacab release that had all the b-sides on it, as well as the Dodo suite).  You can also do a suite with Dance On A Volcano, It's Yourself, and Los Endos.

Also, I'm SURE we've talked about this before, but find the solo "Please Don't Ask" from the "Face Value" behind the album DVD.  It's just Phil at the piano; he tells the story behind it, and it's incredibly moving.  He even takes a pause after playing it and you know it means something more to him.

I love those non-suite songs on Duke.  All of them. Heathaze and Cul-de-sac are both underrated gems, IMO.

Hell yes to Heathaze in particular!!  :hat :hat



It's funny; W&W is a top five album ALL TIME for me, and yet... I HATE "Your Own Special Way".  Sappy, dippy, and not really up to snuff with the rest of the record.  A record that is, for me, SO GOOD otherwise that it still reaches the top five. 


Why?  Because when I first got into Genesis, I was still making cassette tapes. Funny enough - almost as if the band KNEW but didn't want to tell Mike Rutherford - the album is 51:03 long, and by cutting "YOSW" (6:19), you get 44 minutes, 44 seconds, PERFECT for one side of a 90-minute Maxell tape.  ;)  (And funny enough, ATOTT minus "Robbery, Assault and Battery" fits just as well.   Funny enough, RA&B is also my least favorite on ATOTT, though it slays on Seconds Out).

See, now you're just breaking my heart (re: the bolded). :(

I do remember making those mixed tapes however, and Maxwell was often the go-to brand.  :tup :tup
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Great Zo on November 28, 2023, 12:28:12 PM
Not that I think More Fool Me is a great song, but ... it's short. Your Own Special Way feels like it's about 17 minutes long.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on November 28, 2023, 01:29:32 PM
Not that I think More Fool Me is a great song, but ... it's short. Your Own Special Way feels like it's about 17 minutes long.

All of this.

I also +1 the hate of RAAB. But I cant cry too much, because one of my most beloved songs from WAW is a song that everyone else seems to like on as being too silly. All in a Mouses Night.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 28, 2023, 02:00:46 PM
Not that I think More Fool Me is a great song, but ... it's short. Your Own Special Way feels like it's about 17 minutes long.

All of this.

I also +1 the hate of RAAB. But I cant cry too much, because one of my most beloved songs from WAW is a song that everyone else seems to like on as being too silly. All in a Mouses Night.

One of my favorites; yet another example - IMO - of "fans" latching on to something a band member says and having it become gospel, a la Tai Shan and You Not Me.   Phil famously made fun of having to sing "bread bin", even though, to my knowledge the song was only played live on the initial UK leg of the W&W tour (so, 20 shows, but it wasn't played at every show, so more like 16 times).

I love how the melodies change depending on the point of view of the "speaker".  What a composition.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 28, 2023, 02:12:16 PM
All In A Mouses Night is great, if a bit silly.

Robbery Assault & Battery is generally annoying except for the instrumental section which is fantastic.

The third in the trio of silly songs about nighttime is Scenes From a Nights Dream, which is quite regrettable through and through.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on November 28, 2023, 02:29:40 PM
All In A Mouses Night is great, if a bit silly.

Robbery Assault & Battery is generally annoying except for the instrumental section which is fantastic.

The third in the trio of silly songs about nighttime is Scenes From a Nights Dream, which is quite regrettable through and through.

Poor little Nemo!!!!  Another song I love.  The only song I really don't like on ...ATTWT is "Say It's Alright Joe".
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 28, 2023, 02:35:14 PM
All In A Mouses Night is great, if a bit silly.

Robbery Assault & Battery is generally annoying except for the instrumental section which is fantastic.

The third in the trio of silly songs about nighttime is Scenes From a Nights Dream, which is quite regrettable through and through.

Poor little Nemo!!!!  Another song I love.  The only song I really don't like on ...ATTWT is "Say It's Alright Joe".

Yeah, Say Its Alright Joe is maybe the most bland Genesis song. I like everything else on ATTWT though.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: jammindude on November 28, 2023, 07:51:40 PM
Snowbound is the one from ATTWT that I tend to lump in with songs like Your Own Special Way.  Its got a super sappy chorus that just sounds dumb to me for some reason.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on November 28, 2023, 08:05:31 PM
Snowbound is the one from ATTWT that I tend to lump in with songs like Your Own Special Way.  Its got a super sappy chorus that just sounds dumb to me for some reason.

I love Snowbound, though I used to think that about the chorus too. It's actually a really grim song about a homeless guy falling asleep and dying in the snow.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on November 28, 2023, 08:16:28 PM
I have never been able to wrap my arms around Snowbound.  That chorus just doesn't stick to landing for me.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 08, 2023, 10:50:02 PM
I consider it for completists only.  Banks and Rutherford are both excellent musicians and can be pretty good songwriters, so it's not like the final album is totally without merit.  There's some good stuff.  But the album overall suffers from being only half-baked (by their own admission) and the songs are pretty inconsistent.

I like it. Certainly like it better that We Can't Dance Maybe Invisible Touch too, but I'm not sure I'd go that far.  Wish they had done some live gigs over here and not given up.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 08, 2023, 10:53:53 PM
I'll take your word for it. ;)

Back to the good stuff, I have been checking out some of their b-sides/non album tracks lately that I had previous never heard.  Some good stuff in there. Paperlate feels like a song I had to have heard somewhere, but I cannot imagine where that would have been.

Stone cold classic. but then anything from '76 to '83 is in my Genesis wheelhouse. Love everything from that period.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 08, 2023, 10:59:23 PM
There are two versions of Three Sides Live. One consists completey of live version, the other one has some studio tracks on the fourth side, among them Paperlate and other songs from the 3x3 EP and some Duke b-sides.

Have them both. Had 3 sides originally not long after I got my CD player and sold it back before I got the "Definitive Remaster" only to find out it was the English "4 Sides" live and had to find and rebuy  the original US version.

Listen to both fairly regularly and during my Genesis binges.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 08, 2023, 11:07:32 PM
Paperlate feels like a song I had to have heard somewhere, but I cannot imagine where that would have been.

Paperlate got considerable airplay, at least where we live (Midwest).  It was the "other" Genesis song with the Phoenix Horns (aka the Earth, Wind & Fire horn section).  The one everyone knows was No Reply At All.  Both were recorded during the Abacab sessions, but they felt like they should only keep one for the album, so No Reply At All became the single and Paperlate was relegated to B-side/unreleased status.  That is, until it showed up on the (original) U.S. release of Three Sides Live.  I definitely remember hearing it on the radio around then.

It was all over radio at that time. Actually both songs were. But back then a ridiculous about of Genesis from that era was played on the radio. I'm sure that helped me get into the band. That and listening to Duke, Abacab and Three Sides Live on my friend's stereo system. Then again Peter Gabriel was also played a ton.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 08, 2023, 11:10:26 PM
Paperlate feels like a song I had to have heard somewhere, but I cannot imagine where that would have been.

Paperlate got considerable airplay, at least where we live (Midwest).  It was the "other" Genesis song with the Phoenix Horns (aka the Earth, Wind & Fire horn section).  The one everyone knows was No Reply At All.  Both were recorded during the Abacab sessions, but they felt like they should only keep one for the album, so No Reply At All became the single and Paperlate was relegated to B-side/unreleased status.  That is, until it showed up on the (original) U.S. release of Three Sides Live.  I definitely remember hearing it on the radio around then.

I can understand that decision at the time as they probably thought that two songs with the horns might be too much, but what I cannot understand is how they thought Who Dunnit? was good enough to put on the record.  I never heard that song until a few years ago, and I remember thinking, "this probably won't be as bad as everyone says it is."  And yet it was. :lol  Just goes to show that even the best bands swing and miss badly sometimes, even when otherwise on their game.

Some misses are others hits.
Like that one a lot though it isn't too accessible.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on December 09, 2023, 06:46:22 AM
I'll take your word for it. ;)

Back to the good stuff, I have been checking out some of their b-sides/non album tracks lately that I had previous never heard.  Some good stuff in there. Paperlate feels like a song I had to have heard somewhere, but I cannot imagine where that would have been.

Stone cold classic. but then anything from '76 to '83 is in my Genesis wheelhouse. Love everything from that period.

Yeah, the consistency in that era as something else.  A Trick of the Tail and Duke are two albums I can turn on and never think about hitting skip over any song, which I cannot say about any PG-era album, even my favorites like Selling England and The Lamb (More Fool Me and The Waiting Room can both go jump in a lake).
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: red barchetta on December 09, 2023, 12:34:50 PM
Mad man moon:  probably the best song they never played live.  A Trick of the tail is my all time favorite album.  So withou any bass tab to find on the net, I took my time and did a cover of Mad man moon that you might want to hear.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZJFWnPJyQo
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: KevShmev on December 09, 2023, 04:13:40 PM
Mad man moon:  probably the best song they never played live.  A Trick of the tail is my all time favorite album.  So withou any bass tab to find on the net, I took my time and did a cover of Mad man moon that you might want to hear.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZJFWnPJyQo

I'm not a fan of watching stuff like that, but props to you for giving it a go.

It is hard to believe that they never played Mad Man Moon live.  It is definitely on my short list of best Genesis songs ever.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 09, 2023, 09:24:06 PM
That break in the middle would be nearly impossible to recreate live.  It's basically a miniature piano concerto; you can hear the strings, woodwinds, percussion, brass, everything.  I think of it as one of Tony's early ventures into the neo-Classical stuff he does now with a real orchestra.  Back then he had to do it all with synthesizers.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: The Great Zo on December 09, 2023, 09:57:01 PM
"Mad Man Moon" is my favorite song on a really good album.

Alan Parsons must have been a fan, too, if you've heard "Silence and I".
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on December 09, 2023, 10:04:22 PM
Mad man moon:  probably the best song they never played live.  A Trick of the tail is my all time favorite album.  So withou any bass tab to find on the net, I took my time and did a cover of Mad man moon that you might want to hear.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZJFWnPJyQo

 :tup
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: red barchetta on December 10, 2023, 08:26:24 AM
"Mad Man Moon" is my favorite song on a really good album.

Alan Parsons must have been a fan, too, if you've heard "Silence and I".

I know so little about them beside the obvious couple of great commercial hits.  This is a masterpiece!
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: red barchetta on December 10, 2023, 08:28:09 AM
That break in the middle would be nearly impossible to recreate live.  It's basically a miniature piano concerto; you can hear the strings, woodwinds, percussion, brass, everything.  I think of it as one of Tony's early ventures into the neo-Classical stuff he does now with a real orchestra.  Back then he had to do it all with synthesizers.

I agree, the middle section is basically all Tony but it is so beautiful.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: twosuitsluke on December 10, 2023, 10:50:35 AM
Been digging a bit into Genesis following the Top 25 Artists thread. Currently listened to Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Trick of the Tail, Selling England by the Pound and Duke.

Yea the 70s output is really solid and I'll definitely revisit some of these. My Dad was a big prog head, but he was never hugely into Genesis. He did lend me a copy of Foxtrot over 10 years ago though.

They are really quite similar to Yes, but if anything I think I may prefer Genesis on what I've heard.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Orbert on December 10, 2023, 07:46:52 PM
There's the obvious similarity in lineup structure, and they're both English and from basically the same time frame.  And a lot of high-quality prog output, of course, especially in the 70's.  But one important difference between the two bands was that Yes seemed to have a lot of focus on the individual musicians, whereas Genesis with its more stable lineup tended to emphasize the ensemble and the composition more.  They each had their moments to shine, but to me it still felt like the song itself came first.  With Yes, I think it was either Bruford or Squire who said that it seemed like a contest to see who could play the most notes per minute.  There's a lot of showboating in Yes.  I'm okay with that; I like hearing the guys push each other.  But I also like the focus on composition that Genesis had.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: HOF on December 10, 2023, 08:13:10 PM
Yeah, I think Genesis had the more mature compositions and Yes had the more extreme instrumentalists.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: ytserush on December 11, 2023, 05:40:01 PM
I'll take your word for it. ;)

Back to the good stuff, I have been checking out some of their b-sides/non album tracks lately that I had previous never heard.  Some good stuff in there. Paperlate feels like a song I had to have heard somewhere, but I cannot imagine where that would have been.

Stone cold classic. but then anything from '76 to '83 is in my Genesis wheelhouse. Love everything from that period.

Yeah, the consistency in that era as something else.  A Trick of the Tail and Duke are two albums I can turn on and never think about hitting skip over any song, which I cannot say about any PG-era album, even my favorites like Selling England and The Lamb (More Fool Me and The Waiting Room can both go jump in a lake).

I could probably fill up a disc of the Gabriel years that I'd probably enjoy. And even then I'd take Collins singing it live over Gabriel.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: billboy73 on December 12, 2023, 07:59:29 AM
Agreed on that.  I like Peter, but Phil just has the better voice to me.  It's funny how they sound somewhat similar on the early records in places.  To me, Phil really found his voice in the late 70's to mid 80's era.  I love listening to shows from that era.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: Stadler on December 12, 2023, 08:27:20 AM
Agreed on that.  I like Peter, but Phil just has the better voice to me.  It's funny how they sound somewhat similar on the early records in places.  To me, Phil really found his voice in the late 70's to mid 80's era.  I love listening to shows from that era.

I'm biased, and this was reflected on my "singers" list (he was 6) but I think Collins has a VERY underrated voice. 
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: MinistroRaven on January 17, 2024, 07:54:21 AM
The new Steve Hackett album is available for review.
Title: Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
Post by: SoundscapeMN on January 18, 2024, 07:57:39 PM
The Musical Box documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpJR7wKJRvU