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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: Samsara on February 06, 2024, 01:55:24 PM
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I've been fascinated in recent years how I've started to really distance myself from favorite "bands," as a concept, and put more reliance on the albums created. The following post spurred this topic:
Source: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=58482.msg3083496#msg3083496
DT went from being my #1 band by a large margin, to #4 (almost at risk of dropping to #5) just in the last 10 years.
Over the last 10-15 years, I've really gravitated away from calling myself a "fan" of a band, and instead, saying things like "I love Dream Theater's Scenes From a Memory." As groups have aged, or simply gone directions I cannot get into or support, both musically and non-musically, it's just something I've taken to doing. It's obviously very subjective and nuanced, but it's certainly something I've been trending toward. Metallica is a great example of a band that I wouldn't call myself a fan of. Although I am diehard fan of several of their records. Tesla is another one -- I'm not really a fan of the band any longer, but I love their first five records.
Just curious if anyone else here on the forum has started to make those kind of distinctions for themselves?
With the whole band vs. brand discussion over the years, I guess part of me wanted to disconnect from the "brand" aspect of things.
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It's an interesting concept, but no, I haven't made any such transition.
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That's interesting. For me, I only listen to classic rock/metal and am only interested in what the bands I like released in the 70's/80's/early 90's (queensryche, priest, maiden, saxon, etc). Everything post that I listen to and think that's good (ie- new Accept, new Saxon). But there isn't a chance I'm listening to the new Saxon over Power and Glory. But that's just me, I have almost 100% no interest in new music.
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I'd go even further and say there are lots of artists that I don't necessarily count myself as a fan of as a whole, but I like specific songs from. There's a whole continuum of gradients inbetween.
But I think it might be a separate concept from the Metallica example, where later output can tarnish a band's branding as a whole, or even sully the perception of the early albums that people formerly loved. In Flames is another obvious corollary.
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That's interesting. For me, I only listen to classic rock/metal and am only interested in what the bands I like released in the 70's/80's/early 90's (queensryche, priest, maiden, saxon, etc). Everything post that I listen to and think that's good (ie- new Accept, new Saxon). But there isn't a chance I'm listening to the new Saxon over Power and Glory. But that's just me, I have almost 100% no interest in new music.
For me, finding new music that I love is almost an addiction. Or maybe like finding treasure. I have unbreakable connections with countless albums from my past but I need to keep exploring.
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You could say I'm a fan of these albums:
The Grateful Dead - Terrapin Station
Hawkwind - Levitation
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Oh yeah, and I respect and appreciate everyone on this site when they love discovering new songs/bands. For me, I couldn't care less lol.
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An example, I'm a Kiss maniac. But how many Kiss fans say that Sonic Boom or Monster are their go-too's. I'm sure there is a few (complete guess), but I've never seen it.
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I tend to stay a fan of the bands I love even when their output takes different directions from my taste. I just keep going to the albums I love, dismiss what I don't, but stay grateful.
What I noticed is, even though I never stopped stumbling into stuff I really like, it's been circa 20 years since I could properly become a fan of an artist.
It's like I'm out of fandom RAM.
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I tend to stay a fan of the bands I love even when their output takes different directions from my taste. I just keep going to the albums I love, dismiss what I don't, but stay grateful.
What I noticed is, even though I never stopped stumbling into stuff I really like, it's been circa 20 years since I could properly become a fan of an artist.
It's like I'm out of fandom RAM.
Don't get me wrong, I don't fall out of love complete with a band that I used to love. I just have tried to mentally position myself that it's the MUSIC, not "the band" that I'm a fan of.
The fandom RAM thing is a great line. I'm not quite there. I have discovered music fram bands that I really enjoy as recently as a couple of years ago (The Warning), even Mammoth WVH, too. So, it's not a problem for me finding and enjoying new music to love. I'm just very much less vested in the "band" as opposed to the music itself.
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I tend to stay a fan of the bands I love even when their output takes different directions from my taste. I just keep going to the albums I love, dismiss what I don't, but stay grateful.
What I noticed is, even though I never stopped stumbling into stuff I really like, it's been circa 20 years since I could properly become a fan of an artist.
It's like I'm out of fandom RAM.
Don't get me wrong, I don't fall out of love complete with a band that I used to love. I just have tried to mentally position myself that it's the MUSIC, not "the band" that I'm a fan of.
The fandom RAM thing is a great line. I'm not quite there. I have discovered music fram bands that I really enjoy as recently as a couple of years ago (The Warning), even Mammoth WVH, too. So, it's not a problem for me finding and enjoying new music to love. I'm just very much less vested in the "band" as opposed to the music itself.
Gotcha!
Thinking about it, I have always been mainly a music fan and loved bands as conduits for music I loved and as wonderful vehicles of discovery. Maybe when you (general) are young, the need to belong and the search for models pushes you to identify such love in people / bands /brands, while when you grey up and hormone down, then you are able to contextualise and realise it was about music all along.
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I almost wonder if it sometimes has as much to do with the fact that we know arguably way too much about artists these days. Even aside from ones who've done or said controversial or worse things, many artists flood you with the minutia of their lives via social media, which isn't always particularly interesting unless you're a superfan of them.
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I kind of feel like I've fallen out of fandom with
-St.Vincent
-Janelle Monae
and sadly Kimbra might also be falling into that category.
also the following bands I was rather into for a little while, and I've kind of jumped ship on all of them.
-Tangled Thoughts of Leaving
-Ne Obliviscaris
-The Mercury Tree
edit: add
-Transatlantic
-Between the Buried and Me
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Sam, I meant to post here tonight. I will tomorrow. Lots of thoughts on the subject.
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I tend to stay a fan of the bands I love even when their output takes different directions from my taste. I just keep going to the albums I love, dismiss what I don't, but stay grateful.
What I noticed is, even though I never stopped stumbling into stuff I really like, it's been circa 20 years since I could properly become a fan of an artist.
It's like I'm out of fandom RAM.
I have a theory about this. It involves allowing the cook to drop a deuce in your risotto. :)
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The only instance where this has happened for me was Iced Earth, having watched my favorite musician and band implode via national politics, January 6 and the inevitable cancel culture that followed. I don't listen to their albums much anymore, despite still holding some in high regard. I have moments where I remember the awesome music and personal memories, and moments like now, where I'm just into other bands and going back to Iced Earth doesn't hold my interest.
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Maybe it's because I fell out of listening to music for a long time, but I feel like I may have made this drift. I don't know if I could make a top 15 or 10 list of favorite bands. I tend to either just like a few songs or albums, and then there are a few bands whose output mostly is my jam. Those bands are special to me. So it's fine if I don't like everything a band does, if they have one album and a other handful of songs, or even just a handful of songs, I'm just going to dig that. In fact, besides SOAD, there is no band where I love every album.
DT: I love 6 of their albums, can kinda gel with another 4ish, and don't have much interest in the rest.
Neal Morse: The run from ? to Lifeline is awesome. I lost interest after but admittedly am behind on his stuff.
Thrice: TAI, TAITA, Beggars are amazing, and then they have a lot of other good songs
Cloudkicker: Beacons, LSBH, some others, but then it's losing appeal
A few others, but those are the ones of the top of my head.
One other thing, for example, I love The Hunter by Mastodon, that album is a top 20 album probably, and while I know and like a few of their other songs, I would still call myself a fan, even if just for simplicity's sake. I won't be their biggest fan, but liking an album and change is enough tell someone I'm a fan.
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An example, I'm a Kiss maniac. But how many Kiss fans say that Sonic Boom or Monster are their go-too's. I'm sure there is a few (complete guess), but I've never seen it.
I wouldn't say "go to" - I always go back to Hotter Than Hell or Rock and Roll Over - but Sonic Boom is a GREAT record, IMO.
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I haven't made the drift, yet, but I understand that sentiment. And I'm sort of sour on this idea of "brand". It's taken on a meaning that I don't think it ever was intended to have back when I was in business school.
You listen to guys like The Rock (on the Manning Cast last season) or, yes, even Tom Brady now (who was on the Pat McAfee show a couple days ago) and it's unlistenable. It's so heavy-handed and obvious. "BMW" never had to actively remind you about their brand, blah blah blah. Listening to Brady was like hearing a "Business for Dummies" book on audiotape. The Rock, standing there with his glass of tequila (that he only took one sip of and could barely conceal his wince) was like an SNL skit.
Music - the music I generally listen to - isn't there yet, but it's not long in coming. I still have artists I am a "completist" for, but increasingly, I'm into just eras or parts of bands' catalogues. I have SO MUCH music to listen to... I can't listen to everything, and I just, now, stick with music that I like, regardless of artificial rules of what I should be listening to. Classic band with a replacement singer, or replacements for the core member? I'm sure it's great, but I'm going to stick with the classics, thanks.
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Since my comment inspired this thread (I'm honored :)) Let me clarify where it came from.
There are certain bands that I would consider "favorite", and when I say favorite, I quantify that as "how much interest do I have in what this band does". To use DT as an example, how much interest do I have in the music they already released, how much interest do I have in the music they will release, and how much interest do I have in everything else they do (concerts, interviews, etc.). For a long time, no other band would come even close to overtaking DT in any of those categories. If the Jimmy Hendrix resurrected and was playing a show near me, but DT was also playing a show on the same day, I'm going to see DT. If a band I am interested in releases an Album and DT releases an album on the same day, if I can only listen to one album, DT will be it. Lately, that is no longer the case. I'll put concerts as an example. DT went from "I must buy concert tickets the day they go on sale" to "Meh, I'll wait and see. Maybe I go". When I said DT dropped to my #4 favorite band, I meant that there are 3 other bands I am more interested in. No, I do not have a white board at home with a bunch of bands, numbered based on my interest, though is not a bad idea with how much music gets released nowadays :)
But I see what you are saying Samsara. I can certainly say the same about certain bands, but there are some I would still call myself a fan/considered them favorite.
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An example, I'm a Kiss maniac. But how many Kiss fans say that Sonic Boom or Monster are their go-too's. I'm sure there is a few (complete guess), but I've never seen it.
I wouldn't say "go to" - I always go back to Hotter Than Hell or Rock and Roll Over - but Sonic Boom is a GREAT record, IMO.
Count me in as a massive fan of Sonic Boom–that record's probably gotten more play in the last decade than, say, Hotter than Hell.
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That's interesting. For me, I only listen to classic rock/metal and am only interested in what the bands I like released in the 70's/80's/early 90's (queensryche, priest, maiden, saxon, etc). Everything post that I listen to and think that's good (ie- new Accept, new Saxon). But there isn't a chance I'm listening to the new Saxon over Power and Glory. But that's just me, I have almost 100% no interest in new music.
For me, finding new music that I love is almost an addiction. Or maybe like finding treasure. I have unbreakable connections with countless albums from my past but I need to keep exploring.
This.
I'll add that I think the combination of my completist tendency and my preference toward artists who are dynamic (in terms of output) insulates me from what the OP is describing.
For instance, as much as I love the first 4 Metallica albums, the Load/Re-Load era has slowly become my favorite period from them over the past decade or so. The fact that 72S covers so much stylistic ground was a plus for me.
A band like R.E.M. or an artist like Bowie–someone who has a series of hard, left-turns in their catalog–that's my jam!
And, as I'm fond of saying, if I 'like' you, I will probably end up 'LOVING' you, and I'll be on board for the whole ride (and hope that it's a bumpy one at that!)
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I don't count myself as a Paramore fan really, but I think Riot! is one of the best pop punk albums ever. It is so damn good.
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I guess fandom for me is limited to just a few bands and it's about more then the music they release or released. It's just as much about liveshows, the atmosphere and connection with the band during liveshows. There's only a small number of bands I would consider calling myself a fan while there's a ton of bands I like or love or where there's a few albums or even songs I like or love.
Also things can change depending on recent experiences. DT and Leprous are prime examples for me. Both where among my favorite bands. With DT I didn't love any of the albums after MP leaving and the liveshows didn't really feel energetic or personal as well. I feel the same about the last three Leprous albums but I still went to their shows as many times as possible because I really love the energy during their liveshows.
In the end is the same with bands as with sportteams or maybe even friends. You're lucky to have a few where you feel that connection that could be called fandom.
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I guess on some level I’ve remained a fan of DT, even though I haven’t bought a new release since Octavarium. They were just that big of an impact on me in my late teens/early 20s, and I’ve still at least followed what they and MP have done since then. So I think you can be a fan of a band even if you only like select albums.
But I also think it’s totally fair to make a distinction between being a fan of a band and a fan of select albums or whatever. I love Empire and a few other QR albums. I don’t think I’ve ever considered myself a fan of the band. Radiohead have three albums I enjoy and think fairly highly of. I am not in any way really a Radiohead fan.
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This is a really interesting thread. I think I take the idea of being a fan more loosely than some others here, based on some posts. Maybe in my mind it's a difference of being a big fan vs a more casual fan. There are a number of bands where I buy all of their albums, like all or almost all of their albums, and make sure to see them on tour. Then there are bands where my interest dropped off, but I still like or love a portion of their work and still consider myself a fan. Queensryche is a good example; during the bad Tate years, maybe I was a lapsed fan? But even then I went to a tour where they were doing half of Rage for Order and it was awesome. No matter how much I disliked whatever album was new at the time. And now... I like them again. I like their new albums, but it's muted. I don't have to hear new stuff right away, but I will listen to it eventually and I'll go see them, but I won't go as out of my way to see them as I would for my favorites. I wish them really well and feel sad about their legal troubles. Then there's bands where maybe I only like a small part of their catalog, but what I like, I like a lot. Pearl Jam fits here - I have no idea how many albums they have now but I still consider myself a fan on some level. If I was on the stand and could only answer yes or no as to whether I liked Pearl Jam, I'd say yes. In a real conversation, I'd explain that it's based on 2 and a half albums, but still.
It's definitely more about the music than the people in the band, but I do get curious about band members and general information about them. I think it's interesting to know that JP likes to barbecue and James is the reader in the band, etc. I love reading Geddy's book and getting to know more about him, but I don't think it's a "brand" thing as Stadler alluded to but more... Maybe just enjoying a connection with the creators of music that has been such a part of me.
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I wonder if it's like in some sports how "true fans" are considered the ones who follow a team for decades, sometimes even in spite of lengthy playoff droughts, compared to what get called "bandwagon fans", who only follow them when they're contenders. I'm sure the analogy breaks down at various points, but some assigning a much greater level of loyalty to the term "fan" might be roughly equivalent. I don't care so much, I listen to whichever periods of an artist's work resonate with me, maybe revisit other albums every now and then to see if my opinion has changed, and use various adjectives and modifiers to describe the amount of fandom I have for an artist. But for me it's a pretty low bar to be a casual fan of an artist.
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Hmm. I'd say I'm still a "fan" in this sense of Metallica, and Pain of Salvation. I'll buy whatever they release, and I may or may not like it, but I haven't gotten to the point of it not being an automatic buy yet.
Most other bands I check out first and love most of their stuff, but aren't necessarily automatic buys.
The only band I can think of where I really fell out was Iced Earth. I was HUGE into them. Luckily I fell out before Jan 6th. I kind of lost interest when they brought in Stu. I love Stu from Into Eternity but I was just not liking what they were doing with him, either musically or vocally. Few decent songs here and there but that was it. I just kind of stopped buying their stuff.
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There's only been 1 band in my life, despite owning too many albums to count, where I had a connection that was stronger than just the music. I've never really been able to decipher fully why, maybe because I was so smitten by Portnoy's connection to the fans and by the way he impacted my playing, but I used to buy multiple copies on release day and give away to friends and family. That connection faded around 8V...not sure why. Burnout maybe, or less of a connection with the music. From that point onward my fandom ebbed and flowed but was never the same.
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Sort of random thought from reading the last several posts here... for me, "fandom" means "music", though. I know a lot of trivia about the bands I like, and certainly I'm not blind or immune from the non-musical aspects of the bands I like, but I never got the idea that these were my "friends" or that I had to somehow admire or emulate them. This is probably a sensitive subject on this forum, but if Geddy Lee calls Alex Lifeson, his lifelong friend, "Lerxst", that doesn't mean I can or should too. I'm not his friend. I'm not his "bud". It's cute between them, but that's it. If the singer decides to vote for a certain candidate, or stump for a certain cause, doesn't mean that I have to agree with it, or that I have to participate. I grew up in a time (the late 80s) where there was a sort of cache about certain bands - U2, REM, Peter Gabriel, Sting - tripping over themselves to have political bona fides, wearing their virtue like a badge. I wanted nothing to do with any of that, and I sort of rejected the idea that loving the album "Murmur" meant that somehow I supported Michael Stipes politics. It did not; it only mean I loved (and still love) the album "Murmur".
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I almost wonder if it sometimes has as much to do with the fact that we know arguably way too much about artists these days.
YES. That is a great point. Something I've thought a lot about.
Sam, I meant to post here tonight. I will tomorrow. Lots of thoughts on the subject.
Still waiting my man! :lol
The only instance where this has happened for me was Iced Earth, having watched my favorite musician and band implode via national politics, January 6 and the inevitable cancel culture that followed. I don't listen to their albums much anymore, despite still holding some in high regard. I have moments where I remember the awesome music and personal memories, and moments like now, where I'm just into other bands and going back to Iced Earth doesn't hold my interest.
Grapp, we've talked about this before, but I think you will get back into IE's music more as time goes on. Traumatic things involving music/bands that you identified with...takes a long time to heal/accept. It differs for people, but even my wife, who was as big a QR fan as I was back in the 90s, now listens to the band's original music again and talks about it, after years of basically giving them the middle finger. And trust me, we know about trauma. :lol
I just listened to Horror Show the other day. FANTASTIC album. It's probably my favorite record by Iced Earth.
I haven't made the drift, yet, but I understand that sentiment. And I'm sort of sour on this idea of "brand". It's taken on a meaning that I don't think it ever was intended to have back when I was in business school.
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Music - the music I generally listen to - isn't there yet, but it's not long in coming. I still have artists I am a "completist" for, but increasingly, I'm into just eras or parts of bands' catalogues. I have SO MUCH music to listen to... I can't listen to everything, and I just, now, stick with music that I like, regardless of artificial rules of what I should be listening to. Classic band with a replacement singer, or replacements for the core member? I'm sure it's great, but I'm going to stick with the classics, thanks.
The "brand" thing has gotten old, and really, where I wanted to jump ship on the whole "band" fandom. But the bold is a point a very much agree with. Think about how much music is thrown at all of us, all the time. How accessible it all is. You don't need a physical medium, just an internet connection and a speaker, and you have access to millions of recordings. In some ways, there's an oversaturation of music. And that has been split apart not just by genre, but by "brand' these days. It's actually an extension of social media, splitting people into narrow groups based on a variety of factors. But it all comes down to brand.
One of the things I constantly talk about to my wife is the amount of music, time to actually listen, and then time to ABSORB it. The latter is in such short supply. But if it has a band's name on it, does that pre-dispose a person to like it or not? I think it does. And for me, I'm trying my hardest to sort of listen an absorb something before I make a commitment to it, because TIME is something I can't get back. For example, the band Unleash the Archers is one that I discovered probably eight or nine years ago. I dove in and devoured the record I discovered them on (Apex), and then immediately bought the next record because of that, Abyss. The latter is good, and I would have bought it, but my reaction was "UTA released another album - buy, buy, buy" because of the band name. I shouldn't have. Again, it's a personal journey of sorts, that to be honest, I haven't really figured out yet.
Since my comment inspired this thread (I'm honored :)) Let me clarify where it came from.
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But I see what you are saying Samsara. I can certainly say the same about certain bands, but there are some I would still call myself a fan/considered them favorite.
I hope you understand I wasn't attempting to "pick on you" at all, Lonk. Far from it. It just spurred the idea that had been in my head, to make a post about it.
I guess on some level I’ve remained a fan of DT, even though I haven’t bought a new release since Octavarium. They were just that big of an impact on me in my late teens/early 20s, and I’ve still at least followed what they and MP have done since then. So I think you can be a fan of a band even if you only like select albums.
But I also think it’s totally fair to make a distinction between being a fan of a band and a fan of select albums or whatever. I love Empire and a few other QR albums. I don’t think I’ve ever considered myself a fan of the band. Radiohead have three albums I enjoy and think fairly highly of. I am not in any way really a Radiohead fan.
That's the distinction I'm talking about. You love some albums, but not necessarily "all in" on buying everything with the band (brand) name on it.
This is a really interesting thread. I think I take the idea of being a fan more loosely than some others here, based on some posts. Maybe in my mind it's a difference of being a big fan vs a more casual fan. There are a number of bands where I buy all of their albums, like all or almost all of their albums, and make sure to see them on tour. Then there are bands where my interest dropped off, but I still like or love a portion of their work and still consider myself a fan. Queensryche is a good example; during the bad Tate years, maybe I was a lapsed fan? But even then I went to a tour where they were doing half of Rage for Order and it was awesome. No matter how much I disliked whatever album was new at the time. And now... I like them again. I like their new albums, but it's muted. I don't have to hear new stuff right away, but I will listen to it eventually and I'll go see them, but I won't go as out of my way to see them as I would for my favorites. I wish them really well and feel sad about their legal troubles. Then there's bands where maybe I only like a small part of their catalog, but what I like, I like a lot. Pearl Jam fits here - I have no idea how many albums they have now but I still consider myself a fan on some level. If I was on the stand and could only answer yes or no as to whether I liked Pearl Jam, I'd say yes. In a real conversation, I'd explain that it's based on 2 and a half albums, but still.
It's definitely more about the music than the people in the band, but I do get curious about band members and general information about them. I think it's interesting to know that JP likes to barbecue and James is the reader in the band, etc. I love reading Geddy's book and getting to know more about him, but I don't think it's a "brand" thing as Stadler alluded to but more... Maybe just enjoying a connection with the creators of music that has been such a part of me.
I always enjoy your posts. Yes, in terms of casual fan vs. big fan. But I guess I'll use this example: I enjoy two albums from the band Disturbed (Believe and Ten Thousand Fists). But I wouldn't even call myself a casual fan of them currently. I really love those two albums, but after keeping tabs on their output following those two, and seeing them live, I'm just not a fan. Not even a casual one. But I'll gush about how much I love those two records. Just don't call me a fan of Disturbed. :lol
Queensryche is a harder one for me. Most folks reading this thread realize that I was a "super fan" of the band for decades and I'm a historian and biographer of the group. So it's a little complicated for me. I've had to separate their output into eras, with the original band era still me being very much a super fan of, as it is the catalog of music I feel is my favorite from any artist, of all-time. The rest varies.
Pearl Jam is another one. I like their first two albums. I wouldn't call myself a Pearl Jam fan. But then again, does Pearl Jam position itself as a brand name? I think there's also that distinction. Are bands using their name to capitalize on things. Merch is one thing. Every band does merch. But how are they using the band's name in a business sense. Are they over-the-top like KISS? I mean, that would turn me off entirely (apologies to those who are KISS fanatics). A complicated, very nuanced question, for sure.
I wonder if it's like in some sports how "true fans" are considered the ones who follow a team for decades, sometimes even in spite of lengthy playoff droughts, compared to what get called "bandwagon fans", who only follow them when they're contenders. I'm sure the analogy breaks down at various points, but some assigning a much greater level of loyalty to the term "fan" might be roughly equivalent. I don't care so much, I listen to whichever periods of an artist's work resonate with me, maybe revisit other albums every now and then to see if my opinion has changed, and use various adjectives and modifiers to describe the amount of fandom I have for an artist. But for me it's a pretty low bar to be a casual fan of an artist.
Yeah, the whole defining of "true" fan has always been a weird one for me. I mean, if you're a fan of a record, you're a fan of a record. If you're a fan of an entire band's catalog and live and breathe everything to do with said band/brand, how do we carve that up. I guess for me, while it is a low bar to be a casual fan of an artist, saying I'm a fan of certain recordings is better than saying I'm a casual fan of a band. (See my Pearl Jam and Disturbed examples.)
Sort of random thought from reading the last several posts here... for me, "fandom" means "music", though. I know a lot of trivia about the bands I like, and certainly I'm not blind or immune from the non-musical aspects of the bands I like, but I never got the idea that these were my "friends" or that I had to somehow admire or emulate them. This is probably a sensitive subject on this forum, but if Geddy Lee calls Alex Lifeson, his lifelong friend, "Lerxst", that doesn't mean I can or should too. I'm not his friend. I'm not his "bud". It's cute between them, but that's it. If the singer decides to vote for a certain candidate, or stump for a certain cause, doesn't mean that I have to agree with it, or that I have to participate. I grew up in a time (the late 80s) where there was a sort of cache about certain bands - U2, REM, Peter Gabriel, Sting - tripping over themselves to have political bona fides, wearing their virtue like a badge. I wanted nothing to do with any of that, and I sort of rejected the idea that loving the album "Murmur" meant that somehow I supported Michael Stipes politics. It did not; it only mean I loved (and still love) the album "Murmur".
This harkens back to the comment earlier about social media. How we as ordinary people and music fans have the ability to know more about artists and how some of us perhaps think that a relationship exists, when it actually doesn't. Bands use that connection though these days, to lure people in, helping to create that problem, you know? I mean, how many bands do we know where they have a third party posting for them on social media all the time, but let people believe it's actually them? Quite a bit. That builds a connection (even if it really doesn't exist). That's peddling of the BRAND of an artist.
Anyway, great comments everyone. Thanks for contributing. Except for Tim, because, well, he's Tim. (Love ya bud.)
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Since my comment inspired this thread (I'm honored :)) Let me clarify where it came from.
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But I see what you are saying Samsara. I can certainly say the same about certain bands, but there are some I would still call myself a fan/considered them favorite.
I hope you understand I wasn't attempting to "pick on you" at all, Lonk. Far from it. It just spurred the idea that had been in my head, to make a post about it.
Not at all, I understood why you started this thread, all good :tup
Sort of random thought from reading the last several posts here... for me, "fandom" means "music", though. I know a lot of trivia about the bands I like, and certainly I'm not blind or immune from the non-musical aspects of the bands I like, but I never got the idea that these were my "friends" or that I had to somehow admire or emulate them. This is probably a sensitive subject on this forum, but if Geddy Lee calls Alex Lifeson, his lifelong friend, "Lerxst", that doesn't mean I can or should too. I'm not his friend. I'm not his "bud". It's cute between them, but that's it. If the singer decides to vote for a certain candidate, or stump for a certain cause, doesn't mean that I have to agree with it, or that I have to participate. I grew up in a time (the late 80s) where there was a sort of cache about certain bands - U2, REM, Peter Gabriel, Sting - tripping over themselves to have political bona fides, wearing their virtue like a badge. I wanted nothing to do with any of that, and I sort of rejected the idea that loving the album "Murmur" meant that somehow I supported Michael Stipes politics. It did not; it only mean I loved (and still love) the album "Murmur".
You bring up a something important. For some, being a fan means a lot more than just enjoying the output from the artists. For some, being a fan means knowing every little detail they can, from their birthday, family history, what they eat, and what toilet paper they use. On the other hand, there are bands I like and I couldn't tell you the name of every member in the band. There are artists I consider myself a fan of, and all I know is their name, their music, and the instrument they play. I guess that's why I suck at trivia games.
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Pearl Jam is another one. I like their first two albums. I wouldn't call myself a Pearl Jam fan. But then again, does Pearl Jam position itself as a brand name? I think there's also that distinction. Are bands using their name to capitalize on things. Merch is one thing. Every band does merch. But how are they using the band's name in a business sense. Are they over-the-top like KISS? I mean, that would turn me off entirely (apologies to those who are KISS fanatics). A complicated, very nuanced question, for sure.
No apology necessary. But it points to the distinction. Gene makes no apologies about licensing anything he can with the Kiss logo on it. Paul seems... a reluctant participant at times, but he IS a participant, and he lives a very, very good life as a result. I'm not oblivious of Kiss's monetization of their career, but it's a subjective thing; FOR ME, I've found value in the things that I've bought from them. Their "Kissology" sets are the standard by which all others should be judged in my opinion. There were three eras, Kissology I, II and III, and each era had three different releases: the main set and a unique bonus DVD for each. A rip off? Having to buy three copies f the same thing to get the bonus DVD? Maybe; but I got each of the three Kissology I sets for about $20 each; so for $60, I got five DVDs of my favorite band in full flight at the height of their powers. Kissology II was six DVDs for $60. Kissology III was EIGHT DVDs, for about $60. I sold (or gave away, like to my brother) the duplicate base copies and kept the bonus disks. Compare that to some of the Rush boxes that were double the price and less than a quarter of the material (in musical minutes).
I think there are bands - U2 comes to mind, REM is another - who's brand is less... I wont' say "honest", but let's say "transparent". I never think about where my money is going when it goes to Kiss. I know where it's going: Sophie, Nick and Evan, ultimately. I DO sometimes - rarely, but sometimes - think about "where is my REM money going? Do I want to support Michael Stipe's latest folly?" I do, because it's his money to do what he's going to do, and he'll likely do it whether I buy Automatic For The People or no, but it's a complicated question.
As for the "am I a fan of [insert band]?" I have a "Disturbed" or two; bands who I like an album or two but won't go so far as to say "I'm a fan" (Train) and I have bands - and funny enough, Pearl Jam is one of them - where I do say I am a fan, but really, it boils down to two and a half albums: Ten, Yield and part of Vs.
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As I get older, the less I tend to dive into all the band minutia I did when I was younger. I definitely have bands I listen to and love who I don’t know the members’ names or even who plays what on which tracks. Part of that is just that some bands are less transparent about that than others, but a lot of it is that I do so much more digital listening without having to get out the CD and there’s less reason to look at liner notes, etc. (if you still get them).
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As I get older, the less I tend to dive into all the band minutia I did when I was younger. I definitely have bands I listen to and love who I don’t know the members’ names or even who plays what on which tracks. Part of that is just that some bands are less transparent about that than others, but a lot of it is that I do so much more digital listening without having to get out the CD and there’s less reason to look at liner notes, etc. (if you still get them).
There used to be these things called "LPs" that were like 15" by 15", and they sometimes opened like a book. It was so much fun to pore over the liner notes on your favorite albums....
:) :)
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That's interesting. For me, I only listen to classic rock/metal and am only interested in what the bands I like released in the 70's/80's/early 90's (queensryche, priest, maiden, saxon, etc). Everything post that I listen to and think that's good (ie- new Accept, new Saxon). But there isn't a chance I'm listening to the new Saxon over Power and Glory. But that's just me, I have almost 100% no interest in new music.
For me, finding new music that I love is almost an addiction. Or maybe like finding treasure. I have unbreakable connections with countless albums from my past but I need to keep exploring.
Get out of my head!!
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It seems there's a stark contrast between musical explorers here and people who've given up.
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Trying to understand the concept, but there are certain bands that I would put some sort of qualifier on when discussing them.
Examples:
I love Def Leppard but it sucks they stopped making music after Hysteria.
I love Incubus but it sucks they stopped making music after Crow.
For the most part, I am a completest when it comes to my music but I have started to cut off some bands after I gave them too much leeway. I bought far too many H-era Marillion albums than I should have. I cut off In This Moment after 1 or 2 too many albums, etc.
I guess for stuff like the above I would say 'I'm a fan' or 'I'm a huge fan, but'.
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The only instance where this has happened for me was Iced Earth, having watched my favorite musician and band implode via national politics, January 6 and the inevitable cancel culture that followed. I don't listen to their albums much anymore, despite still holding some in high regard. I have moments where I remember the awesome music and personal memories, and moments like now, where I'm just into other bands and going back to Iced Earth doesn't hold my interest.
Grapp, we've talked about this before, but I think you will get back into IE's music more as time goes on. Traumatic things involving music/bands that you identified with...takes a long time to heal/accept. It differs for people, but even my wife, who was as big a QR fan as I was back in the 90s, now listens to the band's original music again and talks about it, after years of basically giving them the middle finger. And trust me, we know about trauma. :lol
I just listened to Horror Show the other day. FANTASTIC album. It's probably my favorite record by Iced Earth.
After January 6th, I took a 10 month break from the music. It became a game actually: how long can I go without listening to it and giving other music a chance? After those months, it was refreshing to listen to it again. What I meant in my post above was that I actually find myself listening to the music less as time passes and the breakup of the band was more the cause of that than anything - there's nothing to look forward to anymore.
Either way, I'm back on the IE-train, but since the band is inactive, I favor other music more often now than I used to despite still loving the band and their records.
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The only instance where this has happened for me was Iced Earth, having watched my favorite musician and band implode via national politics, January 6 and the inevitable cancel culture that followed. I don't listen to their albums much anymore, despite still holding some in high regard. I have moments where I remember the awesome music and personal memories, and moments like now, where I'm just into other bands and going back to Iced Earth doesn't hold my interest.
Grapp, we've talked about this before, but I think you will get back into IE's music more as time goes on. Traumatic things involving music/bands that you identified with...takes a long time to heal/accept. It differs for people, but even my wife, who was as big a QR fan as I was back in the 90s, now listens to the band's original music again and talks about it, after years of basically giving them the middle finger. And trust me, we know about trauma. :lol
I just listened to Horror Show the other day. FANTASTIC album. It's probably my favorite record by Iced Earth.
After January 6th, I took a 10 month break from the music. It became a game actually: how long can I go without listening to it and giving other music a chance? After those months, it was refreshing to listen to it again. What I meant in my post above was that I actually find myself listening to the music less as time passes and the breakup of the band was more the cause of that than anything - there's nothing to look forward to anymore.
Either way, I'm back on the IE-train, but since the band is inactive, I favor other music more often now than I used to despite still loving the band and their records.
Um, were you in jail?
I kid, I kid. (And sorry if it's too sensitive a topic for you to joke about.)
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It seems there's a stark contrast between musical explorers here and people who've given up.
I've given up. Just not on music lol
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I think some of it goes back to what you get most out of your time. If you like nostalgia, go back to your favorites. But also do you find your time is best used if you hear new music (or how about just NEW MUSIC TO YOU).
I'm doing my Albums of the Year series on my YouTube channel and it has me discovering a ton of albums I only vaguely knew or didn't know at all..and bands. Like Joe Jackson, Talking Heads, 10cc, Steely Dan, Ultravox, ELO, Supertramp, and some others.
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The only instance where this has happened for me was Iced Earth, having watched my favorite musician and band implode via national politics, January 6 and the inevitable cancel culture that followed. I don't listen to their albums much anymore, despite still holding some in high regard. I have moments where I remember the awesome music and personal memories, and moments like now, where I'm just into other bands and going back to Iced Earth doesn't hold my interest.
Grapp, we've talked about this before, but I think you will get back into IE's music more as time goes on. Traumatic things involving music/bands that you identified with...takes a long time to heal/accept. It differs for people, but even my wife, who was as big a QR fan as I was back in the 90s, now listens to the band's original music again and talks about it, after years of basically giving them the middle finger. And trust me, we know about trauma. :lol
I just listened to Horror Show the other day. FANTASTIC album. It's probably my favorite record by Iced Earth.
After January 6th, I took a 10 month break from the music. It became a game actually: how long can I go without listening to it and giving other music a chance? After those months, it was refreshing to listen to it again. What I meant in my post above was that I actually find myself listening to the music less as time passes and the breakup of the band was more the cause of that than anything - there's nothing to look forward to anymore.
Either way, I'm back on the IE-train, but since the band is inactive, I favor other music more often now than I used to despite still loving the band and their records.
Um, were you in jail?
I kid, I kid. (And sorry if it's too sensitive a topic for you to joke about.)
Some days it feels like I'm in jail with too many responsibilities tying me down! I'm assuming you're up to speed about Schaffer and Iced Earth, but I've always been a realist about J6. It was going to hurt him no matter what, given his association and membership as an Oathkeeper. He might be the band-leader, but he's going to prison for a while and there is potential for him to go into witness protection (his testimony was used to convict Stuart Rhodes, Enrique Torrio and others).
He may resurrect the band in 4-7 years, but it's crushing to watch your favorite band break up, your favorite musician disgust you with his actions, and knowing that you may never see them live again, and that new music will be a long ways off. I was really turned off by the fact that I was a die-hard fan for 20 years, supported the band in every way possible, and he blew everything apart in one moment. I put their albums on the shelf - I couldn't separate that music from the person. I got over that eventually and still love the music.
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Trying to understand the concept, but there are certain bands that I would put some sort of qualifier on when discussing them.
Examples:
I love Def Leppard but it sucks they stopped making music after Hysteria.
I love Incubus but it sucks they stopped making music after Crow.
For the most part, I am a completest when it comes to my music but I have started to cut off some bands after I gave them too much leeway. I bought far too many H-era Marillion albums than I should have. I cut off In This Moment after 1 or 2 too many albums, etc.
I guess for stuff like the above I would say 'I'm a fan' or 'I'm a huge fan, but'.
I think you nailed my point in a much more succinct way. At some point, you grab onto a band's material, and go along for the ride, but as we've all gotten older, for me at least, I recognize those stopping points more often.
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The bands with extensive catalogs who have never lost me a bit are few and far between. Marillion and Big Big Train are the two who I can say continue to put out music and have not to this point seriously let me down. Rush fell off at the very end (though I also came in at the very end). Genesis I came in after the fact, but there is a little bit of a let up at the end (I actually like the last two albums though). Spock's Beard had a phase where I kind of stopped paying attention, though I've come around on most of the post-Neal stuff now. The Flower Kings I just kind of accept for what they are now. I generally enjoy their new music but it doesn't have much impact. Dream Theater lost me. Neal Morse lost me. Transatlantic lost me (but sort of recovered with their last one).
Some of my favorite artists are the ones who didn't stick around long enough to let you down. The Blue Nile and Talk Talk never released a bad album in their brief runs but now they are done. Peter Gabriel and Tears for Fears have been so infrequently active, but have only released strong albums. Kip Winger as a solo artist hasn't let me down but is mostly inactive now (Winger is a different story, they more or less lost me).
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I'm doing my Albums of the Year series on my YouTube channel and it has me discovering a ton of albums I only vaguely knew or didn't know at all..and bands. Like...10cc, Steely Dan, Ultravox, ELO...
You should just pull up my roulette pre-90s round playlist, lol.
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The bands with extensive catalogs who have never lost me a bit are few and far between. Marillion and Big Big Train are the two who I can say continue to put out music and have not to this point seriously let me down. Rush fell off at the very end (though I also came in at the very end). Genesis I came in after the fact, but there is a little bit of a let up at the end (I actually like the last two albums though). Spock's Beard had a phase where I kind of stopped paying attention, though I've come around on most of the post-Neal stuff now. The Flower Kings I just kind of accept for what they are now. I generally enjoy their new music but it doesn't have much impact. Dream Theater lost me. Neal Morse lost me. Transatlantic lost me (but sort of recovered with their last one).
Some of my favorite artists are the ones who didn't stick around long enough to let you down. The Blue Nile and Talk Talk never released a bad album in their brief runs but now they are done. Peter Gabriel and Tears for Fears have been so infrequently active, but have only released strong albums. Kip Winger as a solo artist hasn't let me down but is mostly inactive now (Winger is a different story, they more or less lost me).
And then there's the bands like Jane's Addiction and Night Ranger. If they had stuck to the original run (like The Cars largely did), they would be golden. The first three Jane's records are damn near perfect in their execution. The Night Ranger albums through Man In Motion are stellar. Both took a break, both came back, and both.... don't have one song in the latter catalogue that I would share with someone I loved (well, lie; each has ONE, and to be fair "Strays" and "Neverland" aren't bad records.)