DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: gzarruk on February 06, 2023, 07:27:11 PM
-
Recently inspired by the Petrucci and Portnoy interviews by Ollie Winiberg at The Heavy Hooks Show (https://www.youtube.com/@TheHeavyHooksShow), I wanted to start a thread with the classic "this or that" game but with all things DT.
The idea is to take two songs, albums, side projects, you name it -all DT related- that in my mind have something in common and have you guys vote for the one you prefer and tell us why. Hopefully it ends up being as fun as it sounded in my head :lol
So, for round one we have two songs that have a very similar ending section: The Dark Eternal Night vs S2N
-
I always loved that TDEN inspired breakdown at the end of S2N. Cool stuff.
I'd probably take TDEN though.......maybe.
-
Are we comparing the whole song or just the breakdown? Either way, I’ll take Dark Eternal here, even thiugh I do love S2N
-
Cool idea, will participate. But man these are two low tier songs for me, I can't think much good to say about either.
-
S2N
-
TDEN
-
I like both, but I will go with TDEN.
-
Are we comparing the whole song or just the breakdown? Either way, I’ll take Dark Eternal here, even thiugh I do love S2N
If we were talking about that breakdown alone, I'd definitely take S2N. I like Jordan's solo there much more than what he did with the Continuum on the other, but I was talking about the whole song really. I just picked those two first because they share a very similar outro section.
Overall, I guess S2N works better as a fun, concise song but TDEN was one of the first DT songs I ever listened to and it instantly blew my mind. It was by far the heaviest and most complex thing I'd ever listened to at the time :o It seems to be winning too!
Cool idea, will participate. But man these are two low tier songs for me, I can't think much good to say about either.
:lol don't worry, there's plenty more to come!
-
S2N. TDEN has always been a "meh" song for me.
-
I like both a lot. But one has Owen Wilson and one does not. So S2N.
-
The outro to The Dark eternal night really grooves, while the outro to S2N tries to groove but doesn't quite manage it. That's at least what my ears are hearing. So yeah, The Dark eternal night gets my vote. :metal
-
What Bosk said! :lol
This is a tough choice, both are great songs.
Probably TDEN because it's about a monster, and that opening riff sounds like a T-rex is coming.. 🦖
-
Never really cared too much for TDEN, so S2N easily
-
Are we comparing the whole song or just the breakdown? Either way, I’ll take Dark Eternal here, even thiugh I do love S2N
If we were talking about that breakdown alone, I'd definitely take S2N. I like Jordan's solo there much more than what he did with the Continuum on the other, but I was talking about the whole song really. I just picked those two first because they share a very similar outro section.
Overall, I guess S2N works better as a fun, concise song but TDEN was one of the first DT songs I ever listened to and it instantly blew my mind. It was by far the heaviest and most complex thing I'd ever listened to at the time :o It seems to be winning too!
Cool idea, will participate. But man these are two low tier songs for me, I can't think much good to say about either.
:lol don't worry, there's plenty more to come!
Yeah, he rips on that one. Right at the end I love that little change up he does, like a harmonic minor thing or something, very cool.
-
So, TDEN won this one :metal
For the next one, we go to pretty much the opposite side of the spectrum with a couple sad ballads(?): Space-Dye Vest vs Disappear
-
Disappear
It always sounded to me like they were going for a SDV vibe with this song. But they expanded on it and the lyrics are certainly better.
-
S2N hands down.
And for as much as I dig "Space Dye Vest" (and feel it is a terrific closer), "Disappear" is probably my favorite DT ballad period.
-
I like both a lot. But one has Owen Wilson and one does not. So S2N.
Obligatory...
(https://media.giphy.com/media/udmx3pgdiD7tm/giphy.gif)
S2N for me as well.
-
I prefer Disappear to Space-Dye Vest. But I must say, the margin is a lot smaller than it used to be.
There was a time when I couldn't stand SDV, but my appreciation of it has grown quite a bit over the last several years.
-
Disappear and Space Dye Vest are among my favorite DT songs, and I think we are long overdue for another song in that vein.
But I gotta give it to Disappear. Haunting only just begins to describe it.
-
Disappear for me. I cry every time. Which is good when listening to music, lol!
-
Gotta go Disappear on this one. Haunting for sure. Just never been that into SDV.
-
Probably Disappear for me. Gets a bit more emotion out of me than SDV.
-
Round 1 - S2N outro is tighter and groovier than TDEN, both improv. solos by themselves are kinda forgettable.
Round 2 - Close dispute, I'll go with Disappear
-
Disappear easily. SDV is at the bottom for me and always has been. I was glad it was finally played on the AFTR tour, both because it is a long-time fan favorite that had never been played AND because that version was actually pretty good and a lot better than the studio version, IMO. That version is a lot more enjoyable for me. But even then, it can't touch Disappear.
-
TDEN vs S2N - The Dark Eternal Night. The ending sections are about equally as good, but as a whole I find TDEN a lot better.
SDV vs Disappear - Disappear easily wins this one for me, but both songs are a 10/10.
-
Disappear used to be a top ten Dream Theater track for me. I might not rank it that high up anymore, but I still love it. And even though Space-dye vest is also fantastic, Disappear still wins.
-
SDV
-
Round 1: S2N, by some margin
Round 2: Space-Dye Vest, by a, um, gigantic margin. SDV is a top 10 DT song for me, so... :)
-
SDV
-
Disappear, though not by a big margin.
-
SDV.
-
Disappear.
Don’t particularly like either, but at least Disappear doesn’t total what should be a great ending to an almost perfect album.
-
I think SDV, but by a very small margin. Both songs are great though
-
This one wasn't close at all :lol Disappear easily won over SDV.
Speaking of space, who wants to go there? Round 3: Pale Blue Dot vs The Alien
-
The Alien gets better and better. Pale Blue Dot not so much.
Alien is my vote.
-
The Alien
-
Oh, man! My favorite songs on both albums respectively going head to head. I think I'll flip the coin and go with Pale blue dot. :tup
-
TDEN, although that's close.
Space-Dye Vest, and that's not close.
Pale Blue Dot
-
So, for round one we have two songs that have a very similar ending section: The Dark Eternal Night vs S2N
S2N, although it's relatively close.
So, TDEN won this one :metal
For the next one, we go to pretty much the opposite side of the spectrum with a couple sad ballads(?): Space-Dye Vest vs Disappear
Space-Dye Vest. Not close. Disappear is sinfully boring. If they had cut TGD and Disappear and made it a single-disc album, SDOIT would be in serious competition with SFAM for the #1 DT album spot.
Speaking of space, who wants to go there? Round 3: Pale Blue Dot vs The Alien
Not a huge fan of either, but Dot.
-
TDEN > S2N (very close though)
SDV > Disappear
PBD > TA
-
The Alien.
Pale Blue Dot starts great but has no real ending. It should have built into a big climatic section to end the song like a proper DT epic. Instead it meanders to the finish like A Nightmare to Remember (a song I love, by the way).
-
The Alien
It's a top DT song for me.
-
Pale Blue Dot starts great but has no real ending. It should have built into a big climatic section to end the song...
So what you're saying is Pale Blue Dot lacks a proper epic outro?
-
Pale Blue Dot starts great but has no real ending. It should have built into a big climatic section to end the song...
So what you're saying is Pale Blue Dot lacks a proper epic outro?
I think it’s one example of a new way the band is approaching their songwriting. It seems they’re trying to avoid the big epic (maybe cheesy could apply) outro on the longer songs. I think just trying not to repeat something they’ve done so many times before. Breaking All Illusions and A View from the Top of the World are also examples of this.
-
Ha ha. I see what you did there!
-
Glad someone did! Trav86 took me a little too literally. :)
-
PBD, no contest.
-
Being that The Alien seems like a part 2 to PBD, why not just mesh the two together into one epic song.
I don't know which I like better of the two.
-
Pale Blue Dot, not even close.
-
PBD takes it this time! Now, who's ready for round 4 to start the week?
Today we look at two of the biggest fan-favorite live albums: Live at Budokan vs Score
-
Budokan, again easy. The orchestra for Score was cool but I much prefer the setlist and the direction of Budokan. I was even at the Score show and still prefer Budokan.
-
I was even at the Score show and still prefer Budokan.
:eek
-
Score. It's just way too epic.
-
This is the first one I’ve struggled with. Today I’ll say Score. For the symphonic version of SDOIT and the epic performance of Octavarium.
-
Budokan
Score may be the more epic concert, but Budokan has the better setlist
-
PBD takes it this time! Now, who's ready for round 4 to start the week?
Today we look at two of the biggest fan-favorite live albums: Live at Budokan vs Score
Score, easily.
Just to clarify, while I own the Score DVD, I don't own the album. I believe I have both the Budokan DVD and album, but I didn't get either until long after it was released. I can't recall ever listening to the album, so my answer is based on the two DVDs, and I don't listen to live albums much anymore.
Also, I prefer Live Scenes to both Score and Budokan.
-
gzarruk, any way you could post the results after each "round?"
I own both on DVD, never owned the CD version of either, so my comments are based on that. I'll go with Budokan. The cinematography is gorgeous, the set list is solid, the performances are great. Score is great as well, but 6D in its entirety weighs it down too much for me.
-
gzarruk, any way you could post the results after each "round?"
I own both on DVD, never owned the CD version of either, so my comments are based on that. I'll go with Budokan. The cinematography is gorgeous, the set list is solid, the performances are great. Score is great as well, but 6D in its entirety weighs it down too much for me.
Totally.
-
gzarruk, any way you could post the results after each "round?"
Sure! So far, we have:
1. TDEN 9 - 9 S2N (ended up being a tie :o)
2. SDV 8 - 12 Disappear
3. PBD 6 - 4 TA
4. Budokan 4 - 3 Score (assuming TAC voted for LAB)
-
Score gets my vote.
-
I was at Score. I can't possibly not vote for it.
And the chronological setlist covering every album has been my favorite kind ever since, and I hope DT does this again for their 40th anniversary.
-
I was at Score. I can't possibly not vote for it.
And the chronological setlist covering every album has been my favorite kind ever since, and I hope DT does this again for their 40th anniversary.
They did it again for their 30th but that tour was way too short to count :lol
IIRC, sone people here didn't like that setlist too much, but I thought it was quite interesting.
-
I was at Score. I can't possibly not vote for it.
Same
-
On Pale Blue Dot v The Alien, it's very close, but I'll go Pale Blue Dot.
For the live sets, I will go Budokan
-
So, here's the updated...score ;)
3. PBD 7 - 4 TA
4. Budokan 5 - 6 Score
For round 5 we'll do something that's not DT, but it's still pretty much DT, if you get what I mean.
LTE 1 vs LTE 2
-
I still never heard any LTE. Gotta change that soon.
-
LTE 2
-
The only LTE song I know is Acid Rain. I absolutely love the song, but my general indifference about instrumental metal has kept me from checking out other songs.
-
Budokan
Score may be the more epic concert, but Budokan has the better setlist
Pretty much.
It's hard too as Budokan has TDS yet Score has 8VM. I think Budokan still just edges though.
-
LTE 1
-
Catching up on the last 3:
The Alien> PBD, easily. PBD is very good but hasn’t had nearly the same longevity as The Alien has had for me.
Score>Budokan. This one was really tough; I think I prefer Budokan’s set list by a hair, but Score is just so epic and I’ve probably listened to it more than I’ve listened to Budokan.
LTE2>LTE1. When the Water Breaks is one of my favorite instrumentals of all time, and I like more songs on LTE2 than LTE1.
-
LTE1. Paradigm Shift is my favorite LTE song.
-
Today we look at two of the biggest fan-favorite live albums: Live at Budokan vs Score
Budokan easily. I was never a huge fan of the Octavarium album and I don't really enjoy the setlist on Score. I think there were a lot of shows on the Octavarium tour with far superior sets like the Chile 2005 show that was filmed. Honestly I prefer Chaos in Motion to Score.
-
Today we look at two of the biggest fan-favorite live albums: Live at Budokan vs Score
Budokan. The production and direction is much better. Score picture and sound is too compressed. Maybe in HD would be better.
-
Today we look at two of the biggest fan-favorite live albums: Live at Budokan vs Score
Budokan. The production and direction is much better. Score picture and sound is too compressed. Maybe in HD would be better.
It sucks Score didn't get released on blu-ray, it would have really made the picture and sound soooo much better. It gets too grainy on DVD. Budokan eventually got a blu-ray release, but it didn't need it as bad as Score.
-
I would've thought LTE was more popular around these woods :eek
Anyway, here's the updated scoreboard so far:
1. TDEN 9 - 9 S2N
2. SDV 8 - 12 Disappear
3. PBD 7 - 5 TA
4. Budokan 8 - 7 Score
5. LTE (1) 2 - 2 LTE (2)
There's a couple ties in there, so if anyone wants to break them, feel free to do it :P
I'm also taking suggestions for future rounds, just please no "Portnoy vs Mangini" entries.
For round 6, we'll face the two latest mega epics: Illumination Theory vs A View From The Top of the World
-
For round 6, we'll face the two latest mega epics: Illumination Theory vs A View From The Top of the World
IT. Not close.
-
For round 6, we'll face the two latest mega epics: Illumination Theory vs A View From The Top of the World
AVFTTOTW.
No. Contest.
-
For round 6, we'll face the two latest mega epics: Illumination Theory vs A View From The Top of the World
I really like AVFTTOTW, but it isn't in the same league as IT.
-
For round 6, we'll face the two latest mega epics: Illumination Theory vs A View From The Top of the World
I really like AVFTTOTW, but it isn't in the same league as IT.
IT. a top DT song for me. I really enjoy AVFTTOTW, but it isn't one of my top DT songs or DT epics.
-
A View by a country mile.
-
Illumination Theory. My dad would play it on the sound system he installed in our family room. It reminds me of him.
-
View
A View by a country mile.
This. To me Illumination Theory is by far the most forgettable epic in the catalog.
And adding a vote to Score. Though it's interesting that I think those two released back to back are both incredibly strong. But Score is one of the best concerts I've ever been to.
-
A View, but not by much for me. I don't think either are strong epics for DT.
-
I find Illumination theory much more interesting. It's great, actually.
-
And adding a vote to Score.
YESSS!!!! ✨ My very first exposure to DT. I am a fan because of Score.
-
A View, hands down.
-
A view for me as well. All that IT has going for it is that little piano piece at the very end of the song.
-
AVFTTOTW, although it is close for me.
-
1. TDEN > S2N
2. SDV < Disappear
3. PBD < TA
4. Budokan > Score
5. LTE (1)< LTE (2)
-Tof
-
Tough one,
A View I guess.
-
Catching up with the last few:
The Alien over Pale Blue Dot: not a huge fan of PBD...it's one of the "bigger" songs on D/T that didn't quite stick. The Alien is a good one.
Budokan over Score: I don't love everything about Budokan, but there is some amazing stuff in there. Same can be said for Score, really, but Budokan edges it out
LTE1 over LTE2: This is really close.
Illumination over A View: I like, don't love, both songs. IT has a slight edge for me.
-
Looks like the new epic slayed its slightly older brother :D
As always, here's the updated scoreboard:
1. TDEN 10 - 9 S2N
2. SDV 8 - 13 Disappear
3. PBD 7 - 7 TA
4. Budokan 10 - 9 Score
5. LTE (1) 3 - 3 LTE (2)
6. IT 6 - 10 AVFTTOTW
Now, who's ready for round 7? This one comes thanks to JeopardousRaven. We talked about two of the band's most beloved live albums, but why don't we face two that aren't too loved by the fanbase?
Once in a Livetime vs Chaos in Motion
-
OIAL
-
Once in a Livetime vs Chaos in Motion
This is a weird comparison (audio album v. video). I think OIAL is a well below average live album. Disc 1 of CIM is not very good, but the second disc with the "bonus" features is pretty cool. Not really sure how to compare the two, though. I guess I'd pick CIM, but I might vote differently if the comparison were between CIM and 5YIAL.
-
OIAL. My first DT live album.
-
I really loved OIAL but it aged poorly for me so I'm goin to go with Chaos in Motion.
-
I missed out on OiaL at the time for reasons not worth going in to in this thread. I saw a few clips of songs from CiM on YouTube and decided not to buy it. I got around to listening to OiaL sometime in the early 00s, and that was probably the last time I bothered with it. I came to enjoy some of the songs from CiM so I will go with that one.
-
Tough call. The processing on James's voice in CIM is dreadful at points, and I heard that album during a rough time in my life. But OIALT is filled with a lot of DT songs I don't really like as much as others. I guess OIALT - me and my sister both really loved that version of Hollow Years back in the early 2000s.
-
Thanks for the shoutout. I have to give it to CiM. I really like all of the songs on this live album, especially the long version of Surrounded. I think if OiaL featured the full setlist performed that night with Under a Glass Moon, Burning My Soul, Anna Lee, etc it might take the cake.
-
Wow. Why was OIALT shortened? Was that a demand of the record label?
-
Wow. Why was OIALT shortened? Was that a demand of the record label?
I don't know if we ever got an official reason but I'm guessing it was just because of a tight budget and the band not having enough record label credibility to get a 3 CD release yet.
-
It is barely good enough for a 1 CD release.
-
It is barely good enough for a 1 CD release.
:tup
-
-I will go with A View from the Top... over Illumination. I just think if flows a little better.
-I'll go with Once In a Livetime. I picked it up not that long ago for $4.
-
Chaos In Motion.
-
Chaos In Motion, easily. That's such a cool compilation that played a big part in me becoming a fan years ago.
-
Both are bad live albums
OILT wins for me though.
-
Chaos In Motion.
💯
-
Either time changes things, or it is the number of newer fans. Either way I’m surprised by a lot of this. I remember most fans were fine with OIALT, well, until LSFNY came out. Then opinions started changing. CIM was criticized from day one and now people seem to have nice things to say about it.
-
Both are bad live albums
Kind of, yeah.
-
Either time changes things, or it is the number of newer fans. Either way I’m surprised by a lot of this. I remember most fans were fine with OIALT, well, until LSFNY came out. Then opinions started changing. CIM was criticized from day one and now people seem to have nice things to say about it.
Yeah OIALT isn't a bad live album at all, it's just nowhere near the standard of the ones we've gotten since like LSFNY, Budokan, or Score.
-
Either time changes things, or it is the number of newer fans. Either way I’m surprised by a lot of this. I remember most fans were fine with OIALT, well, until LSFNY came out. Then opinions started changing. CIM was criticized from day one and now people seem to have nice things to say about it.
Yeah OIALT isn't a bad live album at all, it's just nowhere near the standard of the ones we've gotten since like LSFNY, Budokan, or Score.
So, it's substandard?
-
Either time changes things, or it is the number of newer fans. Either way I’m surprised by a lot of this. I remember most fans were fine with OIALT, well, until LSFNY came out. Then opinions started changing. CIM was criticized from day one and now people seem to have nice things to say about it.
Huh. I hated OIALT from Day 1 and loved CiM from Day 1.
-
I prefer Disappear to Space-Dye Vest. But I must say, the margin is a lot smaller than it used to be.
There was a time when I couldn't stand SDV, but my appreciation of it has grown quite a bit over the last several years.
The BTFW live version is what turned it around for me.
-
I prefer Disappear to Space-Dye Vest. But I must say, the margin is a lot smaller than it used to be.
There was a time when I couldn't stand SDV, but my appreciation of it has grown quite a bit over the last several years.
The BTFW live version is what turned it around for me.
It is certainly very good. :tup
-
Honestly, those two are some of my least favorite live albums, but there's still some stuff that's quite good on both of them. This time, however, CIM took the lead, and that was actually the first DT live album I bought on DVD, so while it isn't that good, it's a bit special to me in that regard :tup
1. TDEN 10 - 9 S2N
2. SDV 8 - 13 Disappear
3. PBD 7 - 7 TA
4. Budokan 10 - 9 Score
5. LTE (1) 3 - 3 LTE (2)
6. IT 6 - 11 AVFTTOTW
7. OIALT 5 - 7 CIM
For round 8 I want to compare two instrumentals that, while they have nothing in common really, for whatever reason they remind me of each other. Maybe it's because they've both been played live with a drum solo in the middle and then the band comes in after a specific drum fill...
Ytse Jam vs Enigma Machine
-
I dont dislike Enigma Machine, but Ytse Jam fairly easily for me.
-
I dont dislike Enigma Machine, but Ytse Jam fairly easily for me.
Same
-
I dont dislike Enigma Machine, but Ytse Jam fairly easily for me.
Same. Not counting stuff on TA and non album things like Moon Bubbles, Enigma Machine is probably my lowest ranked DT instrumental, whereas (The) Ytse Jam probably ranks 4th (behind SOC, TDOE and Overture 1928.
-
For round 8 I want to compare two instrumentals that, while they have nothing in common really, for whatever reason they remind me of each other. Maybe it's because they've both been played live with a drum solo in the middle and then the band comes in after a specific drum fill...
Ytse Jam vs Enigma Machine
I actually prefer Enigma Machine. It's really in your face. :metal
-
Either time changes things, or it is the number of newer fans. Either way I’m surprised by a lot of this. I remember most fans were fine with OIALT, well, until LSFNY came out. Then opinions started changing. CIM was criticized from day one and now people seem to have nice things to say about it.
Huh. I hated OIALT from Day 1 and loved CiM from Day 1.
I think you are an exception. I’m basing this on the Portnoy forum back in the day.
-
For round 8 I want to compare two instrumentals that, while they have nothing in common really, for whatever reason they remind me of each other. Maybe it's because they've both been played live with a drum solo in the middle and then the band comes in after a specific drum fill...
Ytse Jam vs Enigma Machine
I actually prefer Enigma Machine. It's really in your face. :metal
I think I'd have to lean this way too, but since neither of my favorite instrumentals (Dance of Eternity and Hell's Kitchen) are in the running, I'm kind of ambiguous.
-
Agree, I would go Enigma Machine as well.
-
This is a bit of a toss-up for me, I'll go with Ytse Jam. It helps that it is one of the better songs on a lower tier album versus a mid-tier song on a mid-tier album.
-
YTSEJAM - not my favorite DT instrumental, but it is an undeniable classic.
-
Ytse Jam, the first ever exposure to DT I ever had is when my buddy who worked at McDonalds with me told me to go download something called ytsem jam from KaZaa. I did and it started at the drum solo from Live At Tokyo. Thinking it was cool I looked up the most recent release and it was Six Degrees. 20+ years later I'm here posting on the DT forums.