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General => Movies and TV => Topic started by: Chino on November 02, 2022, 07:14:33 AM
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Starting a new thread for the new movie.
(https://preview.redd.it/mxgifuk46jx91.jpg?width=614&auto=webp&s=31be5fc8f4d7a897bd2806feb753e713b3999c3f)
Official Trailer (released 11/2/2022):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9MyW72ELq0
Hot damn! There's a whole lot to unpack there. It's basically confirmed that Grace is in Kiri.
T-minus 6 weeks!!!
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Looks Great!!
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Been waiting a LONG time eh Chino?
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Hyped! looks great.
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Let's see if he left Roger Dean's artwork alone this time.
Can't wait to see it.
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Really looking forward to this movie. I am a big James Cameron fan and he hasn't really ever let me down.
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It looks very pretty.
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It looks like a video game but I'll be there to see it on opening week. Just hope it has something to latch onto aside from effects which IMO the first one missed. A more interesting story and better written characters and this will easily beat the first one!
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Pretty visuals aren't enough to make me go see a movie. I'll wait for some reviews, but if it's mostly just the visuals, I'll pass. I've seen pretty stuff, I don't need to spend 25 dollars to watch Jake Sully in pretty scenery.
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Agreed with the above.
The groundbreaking special effects were enough to carry the first one, but moving forward, they are going to need something more to keep the franchise going. The plot line of the first one was just way too thin. They’re going to need more interesting writing.
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Pretty visuals aren't enough to make me go see a movie. I'll wait for some reviews, but if it's mostly just the visuals, I'll pass. I've seen pretty stuff, I don't need to spend 25 dollars to watch Jake Sully in pretty scenery.
Couldn't disagree more...I've enjoyed so many average at best stories because the visuals were so impressive in the theater...Alita, Mortal Engines, even Valerian which had the blandest acting ever kept my interest because it was so visually stunning.
In short...I'm very easy to please.
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Pretty visuals aren't enough to make me go see a movie. I'll wait for some reviews, but if it's mostly just the visuals, I'll pass. I've seen pretty stuff, I don't need to spend 25 dollars to watch Jake Sully in pretty scenery.
Couldn't disagree more...I've enjoyed so many average at best stories because the visuals were so impressive in the theater...Alita, Mortal Engines, even Valerian which had the blandest acting ever kept my interest because it was so visually stunning.
In short...I'm very easy to please.
Yea. Didn't catch any of those either for the same reason hahaha. And if you're so easy to please, why do I keep putting in so much effort?!?
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Pretty visuals aren't enough to make me go see a movie. I'll wait for some reviews, but if it's mostly just the visuals, I'll pass. I've seen pretty stuff, I don't need to spend 25 dollars to watch Jake Sully in pretty scenery.
Couldn't disagree more...I've enjoyed so many average at best stories because the visuals were so impressive in the theater...Alita, Mortal Engines, even Valerian which had the blandest acting ever kept my interest because it was so visually stunning.
In short...I'm very easy to please.
Yea. Didn't catch any of those either for the same reason hahaha. And if you're so easy to please, why do I keep putting in so much effort?!?
Engaged men don't hold my interest...
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Pretty visuals aren't enough to make me go see a movie. I'll wait for some reviews, but if it's mostly just the visuals, I'll pass. I've seen pretty stuff, I don't need to spend 25 dollars to watch Jake Sully in pretty scenery.
Couldn't disagree more...I've enjoyed so many average at best stories because the visuals were so impressive in the theater...Alita, Mortal Engines, even Valerian which had the blandest acting ever kept my interest because it was so visually stunning.
In short...I'm very easy to please.
I didn't see Mortal Engines, but Alita and Valerian both had better stories than Avatar. Alita, I liked although it basically seemed like the first film in a trilogy. And the only problem I had with Valerian was the miscasting of the lead actors.
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Pretty visuals aren't enough to make me go see a movie. I'll wait for some reviews, but if it's mostly just the visuals, I'll pass. I've seen pretty stuff, I don't need to spend 25 dollars to watch Jake Sully in pretty scenery.
Couldn't disagree more...I've enjoyed so many average at best stories because the visuals were so impressive in the theater...Alita, Mortal Engines, even Valerian which had the blandest acting ever kept my interest because it was so visually stunning.
In short...I'm very easy to please.
Yea. Didn't catch any of those either for the same reason hahaha. And if you're so easy to please, why do I keep putting in so much effort?!?
Engaged men don't hold my interest...
Tease.
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I think I'm with Adami. Generally speaking most 200 million dollar movies nowadays are so stacked with CGI that 'good effects' just doesn't carry as much weight anymore. You expect it. James Cameron is someone I respect as a filmmaker though and he has made some of the all time greats (T1, T2, Aliens, heck even True Lies for me is a really good one) and while Titanic and Avatar falls towards the bottom of his films for me, he still has enough leeway for me that I'll check out Avatar 2. But if this ends up similar to the first one where it's all special effects and the actual content of the movie is a bloated 3 hour 'seen this story before in a Disney film' remade with boring characters and characterization then Avatar 3 might be one I just check out at home.
The first Avatar for me is like a solid 7/10 (at best) that was mostly watchable as a CGI spectacle in the cinema. The foundation is there to make a better second movie and I hope this one is that. I love the water scenery and I have hopes this will be good. Just hope the missing pieces from the first movie have gotten more love and attention this time. :)
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Pretty visuals aren't enough to make me go see a movie. I'll wait for some reviews, but if it's mostly just the visuals, I'll pass. I've seen pretty stuff, I don't need to spend 25 dollars to watch Jake Sully in pretty scenery.
Couldn't disagree more...I've enjoyed so many average at best stories because the visuals were so impressive in the theater...Alita, Mortal Engines, even Valerian which had the blandest acting ever kept my interest because it was so visually stunning.
In short...I'm very easy to please.
I didn't see Mortal Engines, but Alita and Valerian both had better stories than Avatar. Alita, I liked although it basically seemed like the first film in a trilogy. And the only problem I had with Valerian was the miscasting of the lead actors.
Story wise I felt Mortal Engines was the best of the three, visually Valerian was (totally agree about the lead actors though, they really detracted from the final product) . I really wish they'd greenlight the rest of Alita already.
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New official images released today.
These are some of the recom folks we're getting introduced to
(https://i.redd.it/1edbgeyaijy91.jpg)
Quaritch:
(https://preview.redd.it/5aeevk77ljy91.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=129fc5d02b4255a49654dad6e2cb32e3fed1691c)
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Final trailer!
Oh man!
https://youtu.be/o5F8MOz_IDw
Edit: Tickets are on sale! I picked up a pair for Thursday night (a day early?) and a set of 4 for Friday night! :metal :metal
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I'll probably wait a week or two to see it, but looks good :corn
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Probably should get around to watching the first one at some point.
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Just read that this movie needs to make $2 BILLION to BREAK EVEN :omg:
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They should be fine. Even if the theater numbers don't cut it, they'll have toy and merch sales for years to come.
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They should be fine. Even if the theater numbers don't cut it, they'll have toy and merch sales for years to come.
Oh of course….they’ll make money…..that’s just a crazy freaking stat
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Just read that this movie needs to make $2 BILLION to BREAK EVEN :omg:
I'm really curious about the math that went into that figure. I get that there was a huge leap in the tech, and years of development went into it, but still. I'm assuming that development was a huge chunk of that cost. But I can't help but think that that same tech is going to be used in the remaining three films after this one. If you broke that cost out over the next four films instead of just this one, I think that break even point would be much lower. If that's not the case, I can't see how in the fuck this movie cost $2B to make, even with a astronomical marketing budget. That's such a crazy high figure.
Either way, I think this movie will sail right on by the $2B mark. I'm already $200 into ticket purchases (bought for a Saturday showing as well) :lol. A release in China was confirmed this morning, which is really going to help it at the box office. The first Avatar wasn't really seen in theaters in China until the most recent re-releases.
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That's really weird. The norm on big movies is that they spend the production budget over again on marketing, so a $100 million film needs to make more than $200 million to show any profit ($100 million on production, $100 million on marketing).
But of course, that's "real world" profit. The film world is much different, and film studio economics are notoriously convoluted and Byzantine. Studios will often claim that huge moneymakers actually lost money, usually to get around paying bonuses and things like that.
Estimates I have seen for this film for a production budget are in the neighborhood of $250-300 million, meaning it would need to hit $500-600 million to break even. So I don't know.
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The 2 billion figure is just pure nonsense and whoever ran with that headline did not do their math and then people just buy it without doing the math. What he actually said wasn't a specific number and I think his quote about it having to be in the top5 most profitable movies was domestically and not world wide which would make numbers way more realistic.
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That's really weird. The norm on big movies is that they spend the production budget over again on marketing, so a $100 million film needs to make more than $200 million to show any profit ($100 million on production, $100 million on marketing).
But of course, that's "real world" profit. The film world is much different, and film studio economics are notoriously convoluted and Byzantine. Studios will often claim that huge moneymakers actually lost money, usually to get around paying bonuses and things like that.
Estimates I have seen for this film for a production budget are in the neighborhood of $250-300 million, meaning it would need to hit $500-600 million to break even. So I don't know.
$2 billion at the box office seems really high. That would mean they spent $1 billion on production and marketing. There is absolutely no way they spent that much. No studio exec would ever OK a budget that big. Unless there are other factors at play beyond the normal math of making double the budget at the box office to break even, I am very skeptical of that number.
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https://news.yahoo.com/james-cameron-admits-avatar-2-152636300.html
This is what I read/saw. Not real detailed at all.
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I wonder how much of this advertising budget is really necessary in this age of social media? If Cameron just posted a YouTube video saying "Hey, an Avatar sequel is coming, check it out!" wouldn't that suffice? People who want to see this don't need any sort of targeted advertising campaign. People on the fence will get a nudge from their friends and people they follow online. I know I am oversimplifying this, but I have zero internet presence outside of dtf.org, do not watch TV, go to movies, read magazines, follow anyone on social media, and just by virtue of a couple dudes on a prog-metal band's web forum, I know about this film.
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If this is how much is spent on advertising then some advertising/marketing companies are making a lot of money!
I may be reading it wrong but I feel that the $2 billion comment is related to what has been spent so far on all the movies (ie 2 and 3 have been fully shot and maybe some work already done ie $$$ spent on 4 and 5 also). So if The Way of Water tanks at the box office then the whole thing will lose a stack load of money and it will jeopardise the potential release of the other movies. If however, The Way of Water makes $2 billion then it pretty much secures the release of the future movies and justifies all the money spent so far and means the whole venture will make a profit going forward.
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I wonder how much of this advertising budget is really necessary in this age of social media? If Cameron just posted a YouTube video saying "Hey, an Avatar sequel is coming, check it out!" wouldn't that suffice? People who want to see this don't need any sort of targeted advertising campaign. People on the fence will get a nudge from their friends and people they follow online. I know I am oversimplifying this, but I have zero internet presence outside of dtf.org, do not watch TV, go to movies, read magazines, follow anyone on social media, and just by virtue of a couple dudes on a prog-metal band's web forum, I know about this film.
I always wonder this as well about huge event movies. Star Wars, Marvel, Avatar are going to get huge draws with just some Facebook and YouTube videos and announcements from the studio. I guess there are enough casual fans that need some convincing to see a movie in the theater.
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Probably should get around to watching the first one at some point.
This is where I'm at. I remember starting the first one years ago and remember laughing at how dumb "unobtainium" sounded. I can't speak for the rest of the movie because I don't remember most of it. I fell asleep a third of the way in.
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We watched the first movie on blu-ray back in the day and all I remember is my wife and I predicting every scene that was about to happen. We both thought it wasn’t a very good movie.
Would seeing it in 3D have changed our minds? Maybe. But the story being so unoriginal was the real disappointment.
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This is where I'm at. I remember starting the first one years ago and remember laughing at how dumb "unobtainium" sounded.
It's a joke for engineers. "Unobtanium" has been used since the 60s by aerospace engineers.
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We watched the first movie on blu-ray back in the day and all I remember is my wife and I predicting every scene that was about to happen. We both thought it wasn’t a very good movie.
Would seeing it in 3D have changed our minds? Maybe. But the story being so unoriginal was the real disappointment.
Seeing it in Imax 3D was hands down the most fun theater experience I've ever had.
This is where I'm at. I remember starting the first one years ago and remember laughing at how dumb "unobtainium" sounded.
It's a joke for engineers. "Unobtanium" has been used since the 60s by aerospace engineers.
It was also the name of the mystery mineral in the movie The Core.
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Seeing it in Imax 3D was hands down the most fun theater experience I've ever had.
Yeah....I remember how that felt.....especially when the first night in the jungle scene hit!! Movies changes forever after that moment.....
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This is where I'm at. I remember starting the first one years ago and remember laughing at how dumb "unobtainium" sounded.
It's a joke for engineers. "Unobtanium" has been used since the 60s by aerospace engineers.
I don't think that makes it sound any less silly. To me, it just feels out of place for such a serious movie. It pulled me out of the movie the same way hearing the Wilhelm Scream does, nowadays.
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This is where I'm at. I remember starting the first one years ago and remember laughing at how dumb "unobtainium" sounded.
It's a joke for engineers. "Unobtanium" has been used since the 60s by aerospace engineers.
I don't think that makes it sound any less silly. To me, it just feels out of place for such a serious movie. It pulled me out of the movie the same way hearing the Wilhelm Scream does, nowadays.
I kind of agree. If they had acted in the movie like it's a stupid name that some dumb engineer gave it as a joke, that maybe would have been better. But when said in all seriousness, it's stands out too much.
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The word was said twice in a two hour and forty one minute movie. It seems like a really minor thing to spoil the whole film.
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The word was said twice in a two hour and forty one minute movie. It seems like a really minor thing to spoil the whole film.
It didn't spoil the whole film for me. Just the moment.
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The word was said twice in a two hour and forty one minute movie. It seems like a really minor thing to spoil the whole film.
I wouldn’t say it spoiled the film. It’s just the only thing I remember from the probably half hour I was awake for.
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I agree it's a pretty stupid word even though I know it's not originated in the film. Hearing "Unobtanium" in Avatar did have a similar groan effect from me as when I hear the "I hate sand" line in Attack of the Clones, even though it's such a small part of both movies it's definitely something that could have been better.
Seeing Way of the Water on Dec 14th, should be a fun experience hopefully!
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Honest question, what is so wrong about the word "unobtanium"?
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Honest question, what is so wrong about the word "unobtanium"?
It sounds stupid and out of place unless you're making a comedy movie and you purposefully use the silliest name you can think of
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Honest question, what is so wrong about the word "unobtanium"?
It sounds like a placeholder word that you put in the first draft until you can think of an actual name for the substance. And, it's obviously not unobtainable, since they have obtained it.
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New promo images!
(https://preview.redd.it/e6bxrgd9q54a1.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=c27cc123e060edea2fb7330095fdd551f36596e2)
(https://preview.redd.it/aw96mgd9q54a1.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=313743ddfa72146395bc00f0f382a39b5b63495b)
(https://preview.redd.it/ojssbgd9q54a1.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9ee33e9b3d1ffc86a7813bf6b01ea9ca3ad758ae)
(https://preview.redd.it/nid6khd9q54a1.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=dc1b423221f9644db914d7647ffed6d5766140c2)
(https://preview.redd.it/ofk1ihd9q54a1.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=0f9eb487c3c2912dbe6dfc8770c5c86b2f81c6cc)
(https://preview.redd.it/t2dayid9q54a1.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ae543c2ca0badd08f8de2ec9d708b6f999fe5102)
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Some extremely positive early reviews are showing up from the Premier.
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Lots of positivity coming in!
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So I know Avatar was pretty groundbreaking, especially in regards to use of motion capture. James Cameron is always pushing the limits and developing or enhancing techniques. Massive respect for him, even if I didn't get into the first movie.
Is there anything groundbreaking about Avatar 2? Any new techniques or anything? Or is it mainly a natural progression/implementation of VFX that are already commonplace?
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Got two tickets for next Friday night at 6:00 for me and my oldest. He's a huge fan of the first one and has been waiting for this for a bit.....so.....we will make a night out of it.
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So I know Avatar was pretty groundbreaking, especially in regards to use of motion capture. James Cameron is always pushing the limits and developing or enhancing techniques. Massive respect for him, even if I didn't get into the first movie.
Is there anything groundbreaking about Avatar 2? Any new techniques or anything? Or is it mainly a natural progression/implementation of VFX that are already commonplace?
It's the next evolution of the tech he developed for the first film. One of the big leaps is the number of people that can be mapped at a time. The first movie was limited to a dozen actors or so (I think) at a time, and the computers would still shit the bed constantly. The new tech can handle huge crowds on screen at a time.
They also developed and entirely new system of motion capture for underwater scenes. All the scene were filmed in actual pools (not with wires in space) and the actors were holding their breath for 6+ minutes at a time. It's going to be pretty cool to see how it comes out. It looks incredible so far.
Got two tickets for next Friday night at 6:00 for me and my oldest. He's a huge fan of the first one and has been waiting for this for a bit.....so.....we will make a night out of it.
:metal
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Yeah, the combination of underwater filming and motion capture had apparently never been done before, at least like this.
I crap on Avatar a lot for the story, but the experience of seeing it in 3D in the theater was a lot of fun. I anticipate seeing this one as well, for the visual and auditory experience if nothing else. Hopefully it's a good movie, also.
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Why is Cameron always trying to drown his actors?
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Why is Cameron always trying to drown his actors?
right? :lol
I enjoyed the first movie, but not insanely so. The trailer for this one didn't excite me too much but I think like many have mentioned I will check it out in 3D for the experience.
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Honest question, what is so wrong about the word "unobtanium"?
It sounds like a placeholder word that you put in the first draft until you can think of an actual name for the substance. And, it's obviously not unobtainable, since they have obtained it.
It is a word actual scientists and engineers have used for a long time. It is not necessarily an Avatar thing.
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Honest question, what is so wrong about the word "unobtanium"?
It sounds like a placeholder word that you put in the first draft until you can think of an actual name for the substance. And, it's obviously not unobtainable, since they have obtained it.
It is a word actual scientists and engineers have used for a long time. It is not necessarily an Avatar thing.
I am aware.
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Honest question, what is so wrong about the word "unobtanium"?
It sounds like a placeholder word that you put in the first draft until you can think of an actual name for the substance. And, it's obviously not unobtainable, since they have obtained it.
It is a word actual scientists and engineers have used for a long time. It is not necessarily an Avatar thing.
I'm pretty sure engineers use "thingamajig," but I'd still find it corny if it was the name of a plot device.
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Very similar reviews to the first movie - an absolutely amazing visual spectacle, but lacking in the plot, characters and dialog department.
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Honest question, what is so wrong about the word "unobtanium"?
It sounds like a placeholder word that you put in the first draft until you can think of an actual name for the substance. And, it's obviously not unobtainable, since they have obtained it.
It is a word actual scientists and engineers have used for a long time. It is not necessarily an Avatar thing.
I'm pretty sure engineers use "thingamajig," but I'd still find it corny if it was the name of a plot device.
Thingamajig is more something you don't know the name of or forgot the name of. Unobtanium is something desirable that is either impossible or extremely impractical to obtain. But as with all slang, usage will vary.
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Final trailer!
Oh man!
https://youtu.be/o5F8MOz_IDw
Edit: Tickets are on sale! I picked up a pair for Thursday night (a day early?) and a set of 4 for Friday night! :metal :metal
Enjoy the movie tonight, looking forward to your thoughts since I know you've been waiting for a while :corn
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Thanks! I am soiling myself in excitement!!
I know you've been waiting for a while :corn
(https://preview.redd.it/143uiqxpz36a1.jpg?width=975&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=da77fb6253da58b950d3d634e828cbc24c8cb488)
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Saw it yesterday and it was a similar experience to the first one, but I would say this one is better. The first one was like a 7/10 for me so I guess this one would be more like 8/10. There's still a few similar problems like a plot that isn't anything super creative or out of the normal and characters we've seen before but I would say it feels a bit better than in the first movie. And the visuals are great, loved pretty much all the water scenes.
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I saw The Way of the Water yesterday. Really enjoyed it but it is a lot of movie! I did feel it was a little too long. The world building was awesome, as well as the attention to detail. I really liked all the kids. I'd say I will definitely go and see it again at some stage.
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Boy. That was an experience. I'm not really sure where to start.
Reintroduction of the humans:
Hot damn what an entrance. The prediction I've been making for more than a decade was way wrong. My money was on the humans never actually leaving Pandora. I figured there had to be at least small handful of settlements like Hell's Gate on the moon. Anyways, their return was ridiculous (not in a bad way). Seeing Home Tree toppled in the first movie seemed like such a colossal event, scale wise, and here we saw two get taken out like they were toothpicks. It was a hell of a scene. I'm not sure I'm in love with the whole "we did all this work in a year" thing. I'd think the rail road line they built would have taken longer than that on its own. I'll turn a blind eye though.
Jake and his family:
I wasn't sure where I'd stand on this. I think it worked well for the movie, even though I think it pushed Neytiri to the back burner a bit. I went into the movie expecting one of the sons to die, but it still caught me off guard when it happened. I thought some of the teenage interaction felt a little too much like a lift and load from the first film at times. There was a lot of character building this time around, which I thought was a nice change from the first film. At times it felt a bit forced/rushed, which is kind of crazy when you consider the movie's runtime. I enjoyed seeing all the differences in cultural and physical ways of life between Jake's family and the new clan.
The story:
I think on the surface, it is a really basic story, but I'd argue there's still a lot there. I was on my toes the whole time, and I didn't really find it predictable at all. Spider is an interesting character with a lot of confict, and I'm going to make sure I pay extra attention to him tonight. Quaritch being saved at the end by him was an interesting way to go. Speaking of, seeing his recom origin was pretty well done, even if some of the dialog was cheesy, and seeing him crush his own skull was a great way to welcome him back.
I love that we go to see into Ewya, and see as the people see when they connect. Kiri being the physical manifestation of her is fucking rad. I didn't see that one coming, and I fully anticipate the Pocahontas jokes being replaced with Jesus jokes now :lol Seeing her manipulate Pandora was really cool, and I got legitimately giddy in the theater when she took down that sub.
There were so few humans on screen this time around, at least it felt that way. This movie didn't really feel like the Na'vi vs the humans the majority of the time, which I thought was great. We didn't get a monster war battle like the first movie, but that makes sense given the humans have only been back building for a year. We also can't have an battle like that every movie, it'd get stale (there will be five once all is said and done). I thought the fight scene we did get was pretty great, and the whole sequence of Neytiri and her daughter trying escape the Sea Dragon from the inside while the boys did the same from the outside was masterfully done.
I actually really liked the kinship element between the Tulkun and the Metkayina clan and the fact the animals themselves had their own language and backstory. I also really liked that is wasn't Jake that bonded with one. Jake's family, and probably moreso the children as the movies continue, are going to be focus going forward. Which is great I think. Plenty of room for offshoots in side arcs in the main story.
The effects:
10/10 - A new bar has been set. Absolutely breathtaking.
New Vehicles and Human stuff:
We only saw a handful of new pieces of hardware, but I thought they were really cool. Sea Dragon was dope, and those crab mech machines were wild. I hope we get to see those again at some point.
The score:
The movie really let me down here, TBH. It was a good score, but it straight up recycled like 80% of the first movie's tracks. I get James Horner passed away, but I feel like there could have been way more originality there. I was really hoping for some. This won't bother 99.9% of people in the audience.
I'm already 15 minutes late to start my day. I've got tickets to see it again tonight and tomorrow as well. I'd give it an 8.5/10 so far. That may change. It was a long movie, and I think that will reduce how often people will be willing to see this multiple times in a theater compared to the first one.
I'd recommend giving it a watch.
:chino:
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Seeing it in a couple of hours, Imax 3D HFR screening. As someone who really enjoys the first one, I am looking forward to it very much!
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6:00 tonight.....3D.....DLX Superscreen. I'm excited to see it but not nearly as excited as my oldest son. Outside of Brian I don't know of a bigger AVATAR fan than him so he's pretty stoked.
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Totally forgot it was opening this weekend. Probably go catch it early tomorrow.
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Monday afternoon in IMAX 3d with jingle.son
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I thought it was a great experience. Better film than the original. I don't think people who disliked 1 will like 2 that much better. It is a tried and true plot again for sure. But to me one with heart and relatable characters that perform well. And what appealed to me in Avatar 1 is still very much there. A unique world beautifully brought to life with a lot of world building. And film has a good buildup with a rewarding climax. The 48 fps surprised me, it made the action scenes very clear and sharp during fast movements. And the underwater scenes were done really well, often it is clunky and fake looking in films.
I have said it before, but still don't get the railing on Avatar 1 though. I recently saw and rewatched a whole bunch of non-mcu blockbusters and Avatar (Fast 6 and 7, Bumblebee, Ghostbuster Afterlife, Godzilla v Kong, No Time to Die) and on my re-viewing I think Avatar 1 is significantly better than any of those. To me most complaints are applicable to nearly any blockbuster, both new and old. I also can't think of much original properties than venture into fantasy-esque scifi settings that aren't a trainwreck. Even most Star Wars films are way worse, in particular the latest two mainline films.
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I have said it before, but still don't get the railing on Avatar 1 though. I recently saw and rewatched a whole bunch of non-mcu blockbusters and Avatar (Fast 6 and 7, Bumblebee, Ghostbuster Afterlife, Godzilla v Kong, No Time to Die) and on my re-viewing I think Avatar 1 is significantly better than any of those. To me most complaints are applicable to nearly any blockbuster, both new and old. I also can't think of much original properties than venture into fantasy-esque scifi settings that aren't a trainwreck. Even most Star Wars films are way worse, in particular the latest two mainline films.
You have a point but I wonder if part of it is the fact Avatar is the most successful movie ever and the 2.7 billion grossed (or however high it is now). Most of the MCU movies fall in the 'enjoyable but forgettable' category for me so I'm not gonna argue they are better but they pump those movies out, they make between 500 million to 1 billion (usually) and then you kinda move on. The fact Avatar is the king of the hill probably makes it a target for people finding flaws where they might overlook them in other movies. Similar to how a lot of people find a need to shit on The Beatles whenever someone points out they are the most influential band ever, just as an example.
Seeing Avatar (and Avatar 2 even more so) in the cinema was a spectacle and definitely a cooler experience than seeing most superhero movies, however seeing Avatar at home earlier this year was kinda 'meh'. Not bad, just a lot less impressive. But that's to be expected seeing as movies age.
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I have said it before, but still don't get the railing on Avatar 1 though. I recently saw and rewatched a whole bunch of non-mcu blockbusters and Avatar (Fast 6 and 7, Bumblebee, Ghostbuster Afterlife, Godzilla v Kong, No Time to Die) and on my re-viewing I think Avatar 1 is significantly better than any of those. To me most complaints are applicable to nearly any blockbuster, both new and old. I also can't think of much original properties than venture into fantasy-esque scifi settings that aren't a trainwreck. Even most Star Wars films are way worse, in particular the latest two mainline films.
You have a point but I wonder if part of it is the fact Avatar is the most successful movie ever and the 2.7 billion grossed (or however high it is now). Most of the MCU movies fall in the 'enjoyable but forgettable' category for me so I'm not gonna argue they are better but they pump those movies out, they make between 500 million to 1 billion (usually) and then you kinda move on. The fact Avatar is the king of the hill probably makes it a target for people finding flaws where they might overlook them in other movies. Similar to how a lot of people find a need to shit on The Beatles whenever someone points out they are the most influential band ever, just as an example.
Seeing Avatar (and Avatar 2 even more so) in the cinema was a spectacle and definitely a cooler experience than seeing most superhero movies, however seeing Avatar at home earlier this year was kinda 'meh'. Not bad, just a lot less impressive. But that's to be expected seeing as movies age.
Yeah, I think that is a good point.
And perhaps it being a mostly serious affair with little humor might add to it. Most blockbusters are very quippy and have an edge of comedy to it, Avatar is mostly quite serious and dramatic. The film takes itself more seriously, so maybe people view it with another lens because of it. But for me this is actually also partially a reason why I think Avatar does offer something else than a lot of other blockbusters in fantastical settings.
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Just got back and I will say I enjoyed it thoroughly. I think it was a better overall movie than the first one and……and this statement will certainly be controversial for this forum……I enjoyed that movie more than any single Marvel movie I’ve ever seen. Better on all fronts IMO but that’s certainly subjective
as with any Marvel or ‘action’ type movie if you’re heading in to this movie looking for some Oscar level storyline then you’re in the wrong movie. But I will say this storyline resonated with me more than the first one…..probably because I’m an aging father and this centered around family etc etc.
There hasn’t been a movie or show that I can think of that can even come close to matching this one visually, as with the first one when it came out this one raises the bar and is in a league of its own. it’s pretty beautiful, and the under water scenes are remarkable all around.
The action/fight scenes were just good enough to be exciting but not so over the top ‘superhero movie’ style where you roll your eyes. Anyway, I’m sure there will be naysayers just because but for me this was money well spent and I’ll probably go back to the theater to see it one more time at least.
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I have said it before, but still don't get the railing on Avatar 1 though.
For me the movie became predictable which made it boring and a bit of a chore to sit through. The visuals weren't really doing it for me and I couldn't care less about the characters. Nothing about it seemed particularly new or interesting, at least from the on screen product.
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I have said it before, but still don't get the railing on Avatar 1 though.
For me the movie became predictable which made it boring and a bit of a chore to sit through. The visuals weren't really doing it for me and I couldn't care less about the characters. Nothing about it seemed particularly new or interesting, at least from the on screen product.
For me...once I get beyond the visuals, it's really fucking vanilla storytelling. Plus I'm eternally resentful at how he blatantly ripped off Roger Dean and got away with it.
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Just got back and I will say I enjoyed it thoroughly. I think it was a better overall movie than the first one and……and this statement will certainly be controversial for this forum……I enjoyed that movie more than any single Marvel movie I’ve ever seen. Better on all fronts IMO but that’s certainly subjective
Might be controversial generally, but I'm with you. Marvel movies flat out are not good. Avatar 1 was much better than any of the Marvel movies I've seen. Haven't seen Avatar 2 and probably won't if I'm being honest, mostly because I don't enjoy the movie theater experience anymore.
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Saw it today.
It was fine. Didn't love it, didn't hate it. Held my interest until about the 2 hour mark, then I started spacing out. I've only seen the first one once and that will probably be the same with the sequel.
3D was very cool and enjoyable. That was honestly the main selling point for me. Besides that I can't think of anything else really to say.
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One of my questions about these movies is......what's the end game? There is no 'realistic' end game that doesn't end with the earth sent humans taking over Pandora. These small little battles can be won by the Navi here and there but ultimately the sheer force of humanity and the technology WILL overtake them and win out. I don't see how it wouldn't or won't.
Maybe Cameron goes the 'spiritual' route and Pandora just does what it did at the end of the first movie and fights back as a whole planet but then that's just a rehash and cop out.
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The movie was decent but the main antagonist Quaritch is such a lame and predictable character. I didn't like him in the first movie and seeing him and the others as Na'vis was ridiculous with tats and sunglasses. :lol
The whole premise of Quaritch going on a personal vendetta mission with a whole army just to avenge Jake Sully was just... :facepalm: and the fact that he's apparently in all three sequels...sigh.
The visuals was of course fantastic but that couldn't save a 3 hour movie, it was kinda of a chore to watch the whole thing.
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It's not really a personal vendetta mission. I mean, I guess maybe to him it is, but it is his mission on the whole. Jake was Toruk Makto and had the ability to unite all the clans, and Quaritch's directive was to eliminate him to prevent another uprising like the one we saw in the first film. Jake was also leading raid parties and destroying key supply chain infrastructure. Anyway, I think we're going to see Quartich's sights shift to Neytiri. I'm pretty sure Quaritch killed her sister and now her son. Quaritch also knows it's her that killed him and not Jake. Neytiri is going to start hunting Quaritch I think.
One of my questions about these movies is......what's the end game? There is no 'realistic' end game that doesn't end with the earth sent humans taking over Pandora. These small little battles can be won by the Navi here and there but ultimately the sheer force of humanity and the technology WILL overtake them and win out. I don't see how it wouldn't or won't.
Maybe Cameron goes the 'spiritual' route and Pandora just does what it did at the end of the first movie and fights back as a whole planet but then that's just a rehash and cop out.
I've wondered that too. We might not get a resolution. Or maybe it takes the Don't Look Up route and the fifth movie ends with the Na'vi race getting wiped out.
We don't know how much time is going to pass in these films. I know there's a time jump in the 4th one like a half hour in, but I don't think it's more than a few years. If Earth is a ticking time bomb right now, all Pandora/the Na'vi have to do is wait out the clock. Earth and humanity would fail to the point where it could no longer support the interstellar travel.
I don't know if I agree with the rehash and cop out comment. We saw a number of animals come together to help the Na'vi fight off some helicopters and a shuttle in a relatively small battle. We haven't seen the "whole planet" (it's a moon :chino:) fight back against humanity's last stand yet. Who knows what Kiri is capable of, being the physical manifestation of Eywa and all. Being science fiction, Cameron has the green light to allow her to do pretty much anything. Summon storms? Cause volcanoes to erupt? Modify the magnetic field to turn floating mountains into projectiles? I have no idea. Can't wait to see!
This is a screen shot from the upcoming Frontiers of Pandora game. I'm thinking we see that thing in the next movie. We might get a rehash of a pandora/human fight, but it'll be on a much grander scale. Look at that chonker.
(https://s31092.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/avatar-1320x743.jpg)
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I don't know if I agree with the rehash and cop out comment.
'cop out' might have been a bit harsh....I guess....it just seems like the only logical direction he could take for the Na'vi and the planet for that matter to 'win'
I dug the movie and as I said felt more connected to the story just due to the family nature of it all.....I'll probably see it one more time in the theater with my other two sons and then just wait for streaming.
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I don't know if I agree with the rehash and cop out comment.
'cop out' might have been a bit harsh....I guess....it just seems like the only logical direction he could take for the Na'vi and the planet for that matter to 'win'....which is predictable. Predictable can be fine as long as it's done well, which Cameron usually spares no expense in doing so.
I dug the movie and as I said felt more connected to the story just due to the family nature of it all.....I'll probably see it one more time in the theater with my other two sons and then just wait for streaming.
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'cop out' might have been a bit harsh....I guess....it just seems like the only logical direction he could take for the Na'vi and the planet for that matter to 'win'
I dug the movie and as I said felt more connected to the story just due to the family nature of it all.....I'll probably see it one more time in the theater with my other two sons and then just wait for streaming.
That sense of strong, stable and supportive family was hands down my favorite part of the movie.
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If Earth is a ticking time bomb right now, all Pandora/the Na'vi have to do is wait out the clock. Earth and humanity would fail to the point where it could no longer support the interstellar travel.
Where it could potentially go eventually is something along the lines of: both races are in danger, and the preservation of both humanity and Na'vi lies in a new hybrid race formed from the two coming together. Or maybe that is just coming from my Galactica rewatch. :lol
I don't know if I agree with the rehash and cop out comment. We saw a number of animals come together to help the Na'vi fight off some helicopters and a shuttle in a relatively small battle. We haven't see the "whole planet" (it's a moon :chino:) fight back yet against humanity's last stand yet. Who knows what Kiri is capable of, being the physical manifestation of Eywa and all. Being science fiction, Cameron has the green light to allow her to do pretty much anything. Summon storms? Cause volcanoes to erupt? Modify the magnetic field to turn floating mountains into projectiles? I have no idea.
Well...what if maybe you unintentionally hit on something with the bolded above? Maybe at some point, we get a scope shift and find out that it isn't just Pandora that's "sentient," but the entire planetary system, and that Eywa is just a smaller part of that. Suddenly, we could then be dealing not just with Pandora, but with the planet and its other moons too, and possibly unknown beings on those worlds in addition to the Na'vi (or maybe variations of Na'vi).
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I watched it. I enjoyed it!
My only real complaint is that along with the 3D glasses, they should have installed a catheter bag.
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I watched it. I enjoyed it!
My only real complaint is that along with the 3D glasses, they should have installed a catheter bag.
:lol No kidding. I literally up to the last trailer ran out to empty the tank three times before settling in.....made it through the whole movie.
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I watched it. I enjoyed it!
My only real complaint is that along with the 3D glasses, they should have installed a catheter bag.
:lol No kidding. I literally up to the last trailer ran out to empty the tank three times before settling in.....made it through the whole movie.
Try it without a prostate, bucko! :biggrin:
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I watched it. I enjoyed it!
My only real complaint is that along with the 3D glasses, they should have installed a catheter bag.
I thought I was gonna make it, but around the 2 hour 15 mark I had to duck out for a p break.
They should have given out Pampers with the glasses :lol
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With longer movies being so common, I wouldn't mind if they made the longer ones with a short intermission.
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(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/321607307_1065528354405380_5594662425224686572_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DPLHC-KHjHoAX8ga-uW&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=00_AfB8aA_4BcVTbzs__Zlqx-mcpzkn_EUMgBp-rKLHe4UZhg&oe=63AC6421)
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Saw this last night and loved it. I agree with most of the stuff you all have been saying. Visually stunning. I was pulled into the world just like the first one. Story was good, but not great.
I particularly agree with the statements that this movie is better than anything in the MCU, and I love the MCU. Maybe Infinity War or Endgame is right up there, but otherwise this is on another level to other blockbuster movies.
The effects were so amazing that I feel like there is absolutely no excuse for the shitty CGI we see in other movies these days. The crazy thing is the first Avatar movie had effects almost this good more than a decade ago. This is probably the difference of Avatar being a passion project for James Cameron, versus just another MCU or DC movie for whoever is making those films.
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lonestar: that's awesome :lol. Not nearly enough movies have awesome metal soundtracks.
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Story was good, but not great.
My issue with the story (right now) is that it's not really addressing the larger issue of the humans are coming and there's simply no way the Na'vi can defeat them. I can see that they've set up Kiri to be (as Brian stated) this 'Jesus-esque' figure that will most likely be 'the' way the humans are ultimately defeated and turned away forever. Which is fine if it's done well. Not the most original story but let's be honest....most every movie or show out there is just re-telling a version of an older story as there aren't too many 'original' ideas floating around these days. So I'm good with that outcome (if that's really where it's going) as long as it's done well. So, while I have the issue of the 'end game' not being addressed heavily thus far I'm sure that the story as a whole will tell itself when we see the completed overarching storyline told with all the movies.
For me the AVATAR movies/story resonate because it 'speaks' to me more. Even the rehashed storyline of the first movie was done well enough for me not to really care that it has been told multiple different ways in different movies/books. Was still done in a unique enough manner to where I felt invested in the characters and it continued on and built more in the second movie with the focus on the family aspect.
I particularly agree with the statements that this movie is better than anything in the MCU, and I love the MCU. Maybe Infinity War or Endgame is right up there, but otherwise this is on another level to other blockbuster movies.
Yeah...I stated that right off the bat and still stick by it. I think those MCU movies are pretty good but if we're critiquing storytelling then those movies for whatever reason seem to get off the hook for run of the mill storylines primarily because of the CGI and their 'bang em up' nature. It's OK to use the CGI but man...it's SO over saturated and relied upon. The exact same thing can be said about AVATAR but the glaring difference is you don't 'notice' it in AVATAR given how well it's done....it's seamless and beautiful and just blends well with your viewing experience. The CGI in the MCU does not 'disappear' when viewing it like AVATARS does. When placed next to each other MCU vs AVATAR I side with AVATAR due to 1) It's visually superior in EVERY aspect...not even close and 2) I 'care' about the characters more in AVATAR But as I mentioned in my original post...that's just 'me' and it's all subjective.
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Curious why you think a human victory is inevitable? There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands of humans on the planet and probably billions of Navi and other creatures hostile to humans. Navi can defeat human technology relatively easily as shown in the movies. It's not easy for humans to get there so bring reinforcements is very time consuming and expensive. Sure, if humans wanted to blast the crap out the planet they could, but they want a functional planet to move humanity to.
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I saw it last night. But man, I do NOT get how people give this movie a pass and act like the MCU is worse.
Tastes and opinions and all that, but from my vantage point, there is no more “generic” villain in modern movie history than Quarich. (I had to look up his actual characters name because he was so one dimensional and bland that you may as well have called him “Col. Very Bad Man”)
The visuals were excellent, and the family stuff was good. But I couldn’t shake the feeling that the entire screenplay felt like one of those scripts you see as a joke where someone made an AI watch 1000 sci-fi films and then spit out a script.
I found even the worst MCU villain to be more engaging and well crafted than Biff McBadguy. Or was it Beef Chucksteak?
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Actually I just figured out who Splint Chesthair reminded me of. Anyone remember the main secret agent from Beavis and Butthead Do America? He was voiced by Robert Stack. I forget his name too. Probably Punch Rockgroin.
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I agree with pretty much all of the appreciation, and the criticisms of the movie. But like Gary said, we're not going to see this movie for the story/plot. As I remember Lucas saying in an interview during the prequel releases "I'm a visual story-teller". Clearly, so is Cameron. To that end, I give the visuals an A; the story gets a C-, so overall it's a solid B.
The other aspect to the story I don't get is why do humans even want to colonize this moon? The atmosphere isn't breathable to them, ffs. Why travel for almost 6 years one way to an inhospitable environment? Also, how - IN ONE YEAR - did humans figure out that hunting the tolkun to harvest their brain fluids reduces / stops aging? Last beef ... in 140 years, $80M is a large amount of money? Does inflation cease to exist in the future? It would've been more believable if that Cap'n had said that vial was worth $80B. Did both jingle.son and I mis-hear him?
Visually, breath-taking. The core of the story-line, not bad. Some of the finer details to support the story, ::)
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Also, how - IN ONE YEAR - did humans figure out that hunting the tolkun to harvest their brain fluids reduces / stops aging? Last beef ... in 140 years, $80M is a large amount of money? Does inflation cease to exist in the future? It would've been more believable if that Cap'n had said that vial was worth $80B. Did both jingle.son and I mis-hear him?
Visually, breath-taking. The core of the story-line, not bad. Some of the finer details to support the story, ::)
Two things.
Why would you assume the humans had only been there one year? The commercial fishing companies could have been there for years. Throughout the timeline of the human occupation...away from the land action of the science teams and the military conflicts.
Did he actually say dollars or did he say it's worth eighty-million? Period. I honestly don't remember. If he did say simply 80 million, it would probably be a global currency since, apparently, human-kind is united in their search to find a planet to pillage and rape. A new global currency would not have the same purchasing value of dollars from 180 years in the past.
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See below
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The other aspect to the story I don't get is why do humans even want to colonize this moon? The atmosphere isn't breathable to them, ffs. Why travel for almost 6 years one way to an inhospitable environment?
Because it's really close to Earth in other aspects. It's got all the materials we need. Similar enough gravity. More than enough water. Stable ecosystem/weather that is relatively calm most of the time. The air is filterable easily enough.. etc. The likelihood of us finding a celestial body with an atmosphere we could could just walk out and breathe is very slim, let alone such a place that also checks all the other boxes as well.
6 years away might be the closest and most feasible thing we've found. We don't have a lot of options right next door, and in the words of Truman in the movie Armageddon, "it's a big ass sky".
Also, how - IN ONE YEAR - did humans figure out that hunting the tolkun to harvest their brain fluids reduces / stops aging?
It wasn't indicated that that substance was discovered to do that in just the last year. Humans have been doing research on Pandora long before the first film took place. It's entirely possible that that discovery was made in the 13 years between films and now being turned into an industry now that we're back.
in 140 years, $80M is a large amount of money? Does inflation cease to exist in the future? It would've been more believable if that Cap'n had said that vial was worth $80B. Did both jingle.son and I mis-hear him?
The only thing I can think of is that the tube that Mick's holding isn't the "vial" he's referencing. He's saying this stuff sells more $80M a vial back on Earth, and I'm assuming the vials he's referring to are at an injection level, not the cylinder in his hand. The tube that he's holding probably contains enough of the substance to fill dozens, maybe even hundreds of vials. My bigger issue with that scene is the fact that the humans were just going to dump the rest of the creature after they got what they needed. I get Jim was probably trying to nod to what the Europeans did with the buffalo when they got to North America, but it seems like a huge waste of a food source that could feed a lot of human heads. One tulkun is literally tons of food.
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I recalled a moment that bugged me a bit when I was watching the other day. The whale hunter guys didn't seem evil, just trying to make money. All of the sudden though, they are chasing Na'vi children? Firing weapons and Na'vi? I don't get that sudden switch. I can see a significant portion of the that crew being like "naw... I'll hunt alien whales, but I'm not trying to capture little kids. I'm out"
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Chino / Podaar …. All fair points. But for the casual movie goer that only knows what’s been presented on screen (ie, me) that’s a lot of mental gymnastics to perform.
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Chino / Podaar …. All fair points. But for the casual movie goer that only knows what’s been presented on screen (ie, me) that’s a lot of mental gymnastics to perform.
jingle.boy (we are so formal this morning) I'm the same casual movie goer. I know nothing more than you do but my mind didn't have to even do a sit up.
I think the difference is I'm not a the cinema to find flaws. I read some of the DTF community reviews and can't believe they think that much about plot, dialog, pacing, directing, cgi, casting, writing, costumes, ratio of action to drama, wokeness, lack of diversity, Nick Cage cameos, etc... My dumbass-self is just there to find out if I like the movie or not. I don't try to justify my displeasure (not that that's what any of y'all are doing). I'm going to shut up now.
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Chino / Podaar …. All fair points. But for the casual movie goer that only knows what’s been presented on screen (ie, me) that’s a lot of mental gymnastics to perform.
jingle.boy (we are so formal this morning) I'm the same casual movie goer. I know nothing more than you do but my mind didn't have to even do a sit up.
I think the difference is I'm not a the cinema to find flaws. I read some of the DTF community reviews and can't believe they think that much about plot, dialog, pacing, directing, cgi, casting, writing, costumes, ratio of action to drama, wokeness, lack of diversity, Nick Cage cameos, etc... My dumbass-self is just there to find out if I like the movie or not. I don't try to justify my displeasure (not that that's what any of y'all are doing). I'm going to shut up now.
I'm the same (ie, don't try to find flaws) - but sometimes, the flaws (big or small) just slap you in the face. I can certainly overlook minor flaws, but they're still flaws none-the-less. On the whole, I very much enjoyed this flick, but it doesn't mean (for me) that being entertained is a binary / black-and-white matter. There can be layers and nuances to what brings me enjoyment ... be it movies, TV, music, whatever.
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Well said. I concur.
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I tend to find with most movies, and Way of Water specifically, that I can walk out of the movie having really enjoyed it and not really thinking about the small flaws I noticed along the way. Both Avatar movies did such a great job of sucking me into the environment and story that the flaws didn't stick with me right away. It's only later that I recall little things that bug me or think about mediocre or generic writing. It's rare that those after the fact annoyances ruin a movie for me, but it's happened.
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I tend to find with most movies, and Way of Water specifically, that I can walk out of the movie having really enjoyed it and not really thinking about the small flaws I noticed along the way. Both Avatar movies did such a great job of sucking me into the environment and story that the flaws didn't stick with me right away. It's only later that I recall little things that bug me or think about mediocre or generic writing. It's rare that those after the fact annoyances ruin a movie for me, but it's happened.
Usually, I'm the same, unless it was something that really jumped out at me and took me out of the moment for some reason.
Anyhow, saw it last night. There are some things that bother me about the series, and those are amplified in this film. But that being said, getting past those basic things, it was an enjoyable movie. I thought the story was better than the first, and I enjoyed this one more. The effects and cinematography of it all were just gorgeous, and I'm really glad I got to see it in 3D. The water stuff was all so well done and immersive. Really amazing.
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Watched it today, and I liked it, I liked it even more than the first one.
the visuals were sooooo captivating, I simply love the very well done work here.
The family aspect of the movie was on point, I love it.
The story has some flaws though and the writing on some parts was lame. The other thing I didn't like was that IMO it is unnecessary long.
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It's called way of the water because if you can manage to go the whole movie without a pee break you become an avatar
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I caught Way of the Water (or at least most of it, had to step out into the lobby for a few minutes in the middle for a work emergency).Overall I felt similar to the first one. The visual effects are absolutely stunning and the creativity and vision to flesh out the world of Pandora is impressive. The story and acting are there, and they're fine, but they're not doing anything particularly interesting to me. I'm glad I went to see it once, and if I had an Imax screen near me I might go a second time, but I won't have any desire to watch it at home.
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It's called way of the water because if you can manage to go the whole movie without a pee break you become an avatar
I became an Avatar then.
Finally saw it, and I liked it. Not sure I would say is better than the first one but it is good. Couple of things bothered me, but it didn't take away from.enhoying the movie.
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I watched it a second time and I must say I didn’t like it as in my first watch.
I think it is TOO identical as the first movie but with a family and in the water.
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I've kind of had the opposite experience. I saw it for a fourth time over the weekend. My first watch left me with quite a recycled taste in my mouth, but I didn't feel that way leaving the theater this time. I'm struggling to verbalize why. My brain isn't in gear yet on this Monday morning. With each rewatch I get more interested in where the franchise is going to go.
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I've kind of had the opposite experience. I saw it for a fourth time over the weekend. My first watch left me with quite a recycled taste in my mouth, but I didn't feel that way leaving the theater this time. I'm struggling to verbalize why. My brain isn't in gear yet on this Monday morning. With each rewatch I get more interested in where the franchise is going to go.
I only saw it once, but I did leave the theater with the same feeling of interested in seeing where the story will go. I just hope it doesn't feel very similar to what we've seen so far. Though I read the next one will have a darker tone, as it deals more with the Na'vi, rather their conflict with humans.
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I've kind of had the opposite experience. I saw it for a fourth time over the weekend. My first watch left me with quite a recycled taste in my mouth, but I didn't feel that way leaving the theater this time. I'm struggling to verbalize why. My brain isn't in gear yet on this Monday morning. With each rewatch I get more interested in where the franchise is going to go.
I only saw it once, but I did leave the theater with the same feeling of interested in seeing where the story will go. I just hope it doesn't feel very similar to what we've seen so far. Though I read the next one will have a darker tone, as it deals more with the Na'vi, rather their conflict with humans.
I'm excited to see that for sure. Looks like we're going to be introduced to a hostile clan.
https://geektyrant.com/news/james-cameron-teases-that-avatar-3-will-address-the-ash-people-as-well-as-a-darker-side-of-the-navi
" I want to reveal the Na’vi from another angle because, for the moment, I have only shown their good sides. In the early films, there are very negative human examples and very positive Na’vi examples. In Avatar 3, we’ll have the opposite.”
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I'm excited to see that for sure. Looks like we're going to be introduced to a hostile clan.
https://geektyrant.com/news/james-cameron-teases-that-avatar-3-will-address-the-ash-people-as-well-as-a-darker-side-of-the-navi
" I want to reveal the Na’vi from another angle because, for the moment, I have only shown their good sides. In the early films, there are very negative human examples and very positive Na’vi examples. In Avatar 3, we’ll have the opposite.”
Something else I read, which I think is interesting but could end up affecting production, is that the scenes with the kids for the nest two movies were already filmed. Apparently to avoid showing aging by the younger actors (Stranger Things issues, as they're calling it).
If the story calls for the kids to be the same age in future movies, I get it, but it puts them in a difficult situation if they need to reshoot any scenes later on.
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I'm excited to see that for sure. Looks like we're going to be introduced to a hostile clan.
https://geektyrant.com/news/james-cameron-teases-that-avatar-3-will-address-the-ash-people-as-well-as-a-darker-side-of-the-navi
" I want to reveal the Na’vi from another angle because, for the moment, I have only shown their good sides. In the early films, there are very negative human examples and very positive Na’vi examples. In Avatar 3, we’ll have the opposite.”
Something else I read, which I think is interesting but could end up affecting production, is that the scenes with the kids for the nest two movies were already filmed. Apparently to avoid showing aging by the younger actors (Stranger Things issues, as they're calling it).
If the story calls for the kids to be the same age in future movies, I get it, but it puts them in a difficult situation if they need to reshoot any scenes later on.
Correct. There's going to be a time hop of several years 30-40 minutes into the 4th film. So the kids filmed all their scenes for the beginning of the movie, and then the rest will be filmed with the new/older actors when the time comes. You have to keep in mind that TWOW started filming like 5 years ago. If JC waited to film their parts for #4, they'd be adults by then. By the sounds of it, filming for the third movie is basically wrapped at this point as well and has already entered post.
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I'm excited to see that for sure. Looks like we're going to be introduced to a hostile clan.
https://geektyrant.com/news/james-cameron-teases-that-avatar-3-will-address-the-ash-people-as-well-as-a-darker-side-of-the-navi
" I want to reveal the Na’vi from another angle because, for the moment, I have only shown their good sides. In the early films, there are very negative human examples and very positive Na’vi examples. In Avatar 3, we’ll have the opposite.”
Something else I read, which I think is interesting but could end up affecting production, is that the scenes with the kids for the nest two movies were already filmed. Apparently to avoid showing aging by the younger actors (Stranger Things issues, as they're calling it).
If the story calls for the kids to be the same age in future movies, I get it, but it puts them in a difficult situation if they need to reshoot any scenes later on.
Correct. There's going to be a time hop of several years 30-40 minutes into the 4th film. So the kids filmed all their scenes for the beginning of the movie, and then the rest will be filmed with the new/older actors when the time comes. You have to keep in mind that TWOW started filming like 5 years ago. If JC waited to film their parts for #4, they'd be adults by then. By the sounds of it, filming for the third movie is basically wrapped at this point as well and has already entered post.
It's slated to release next Christmas season again so I'm sure they're well into post production.
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Just a PSA to the forum that this movie will be available on streaming platforms tomorrow. Disney+, Max, and a few others will have it.
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Just a PSA to the forum that this movie will be available on streaming platforms tomorrow. Disney+, Max, and a few others will have it.
I'm thinking about watching this on my phone. Good idea?
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Just a PSA to the forum that this movie will be available on streaming platforms tomorrow. Disney+, Max, and a few others will have it.
And in two weeks both movies come out on 4k Blu-ray too. Should look great.
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Just a PSA to the forum that this movie will be available on streaming platforms tomorrow. Disney+, Max, and a few others will have it.
I'm thinking about watching this on my phone. Good idea?
Make sure the audio is through your phone as well. Do not use headphones.
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Just a PSA to the forum that this movie will be available on streaming platforms tomorrow. Disney+, Max, and a few others will have it.
I'm thinking about watching this on my phone. Good idea?
Make sure the audio is through your phone as well. Do not use headphones.
I was just going to use subtitles. No audio.
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I know the film did really well. But didn’t it underperform? Is that going to have an effect of Cameron’s 5-film vision?
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I know the film did really well. But didn’t it underperform? Is that going to have an effect of Cameron’s 5-film vision?
It made 2.3B worldwide, and had descent reviews (Just slightly lower than the first one), I would say that's pretty good.
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I'm excited to see that for sure. Looks like we're going to be introduced to a hostile clan.
https://geektyrant.com/news/james-cameron-teases-that-avatar-3-will-address-the-ash-people-as-well-as-a-darker-side-of-the-navi (https://geektyrant.com/news/james-cameron-teases-that-avatar-3-will-address-the-ash-people-as-well-as-a-darker-side-of-the-navi)
" I want to reveal the Na’vi from another angle because, for the moment, I have only shown their good sides. In the early films, there are very negative human examples and very positive Na’vi examples. In Avatar 3, we’ll have the opposite.”
Something else I read, which I think is interesting but could end up affecting production, is that the scenes with the kids for the nest two movies were already filmed. Apparently to avoid showing aging by the younger actors (Stranger Things issues, as they're calling it).
If the story calls for the kids to be the same age in future movies, I get it, but it puts them in a difficult situation if they need to reshoot any scenes later on.
Correct. There's going to be a time hop of several years 30-40 minutes into the 4th film. So the kids filmed all their scenes for the beginning of the movie, and then the rest will be filmed with the new/older actors when the time comes. You have to keep in mind that TWOW started filming like 5 years ago. If JC waited to film their parts for #4, they'd be adults by then. By the sounds of it, filming for the third movie is basically wrapped at this point as well and has already entered post.
It's slated to release next Christmas season again so I'm sure they're well into post production.
The movies have moved (https://variety.com/2023/film/news/disney-star-wars-delays-marvel-avatar-sequel-release-dates-1235642363/)the release dates now:
Avatar 3 - Dec. 19, 2025
Avatar 4 - Dec. 21, 2029
Avatar 5 - Dec. 19, 2031
I have to say I really regret not seeing on the big screen. On first watch I liked the 2nd movie more than the first one. On the 2nd watch I DEFINITELY prefer it over the 1st one, not that I disliked it.
I'll be picking up the 4k blu-rays sets soon enough and dive into the 3+hours of extras on the discs. The few extras they had on Disney+ were great and just mind blowing how much technology has advanced since the last one.
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Not sure I can rank them. They both were "good," and had unique things that worked and didn't work. I'd put them about on par with one another.
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I go back and forth on which one I think is better, or which one I like more.
The first one holds a permanent place in my heart and will never budge. TWOW improved on so many things, and had a fantastic story filled world building. The score was weak though, and I missed the Na'vi language throughout. I loved that aspect of the first one.
There are also a number of moments in TWOW that I just really can't stand for some reason. I really hated the way General Ardmore's (Soprano's lady) character was introduced and portrayed. For a movie/franchise that's so hardcore about maintaining a world and environment that' plausible, she came off as such a caricature. Jim took the elements that made me eye roll at Quaritch's character in the first film and doubled down on them with her.
TWOW had a huge hole in it toward the end as well, when the Metkayina seemingly vanish from the final. I guess there was an enter sequence shot and rendered, but it was removed from the final cut. It made a 3:10:00 movie even longer, and test audiences said it broke up the flow of the film's final act. Apparently is was pretty brutal as well, from a violence standpoint. I hope it's included in a director's cut down the line, even though Jim has already said we aren't going to get one.
I think TWOW is the better movie. If I built out some sort of grading rubric and filled it out for both movies, I think it'd have a higher score.
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Watched this the other night, it was alright. Stroy was paper thin, and fuck did it drag out, but visually it was cool. I couldn't help thinking of the Tracksuit Mafia from Hawkeye with the way the brothers used 'bro' in every sentence, except it wasn't humorous.
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Thanks to DisneyPlus I watched the two Avatar movies back to back. I haven't seen the original one since 2010, probably. Enjoyed it quite a lot, I thought it would have been a "chore" ("Ah ok, this happened... alright, there was also this thing that happened...") but it was quite fun. Oh, and I also watched them both split in two, over two days each, because screw long movies I guess.
I agree with most of the comments - amazing visuals, the story could have been better. But The Way of Water is still enjoyable, maybe not worth the long wait, but it was visually stunning. At times it didn't feel a completely different planet, just "what if Polinesia was in space", but overall there were so many cool moments who made you really feel the beauty of the place. Also, horns up for the "whale" plunging itself on the ship and causing havoc while everyone was shooting at her :metal
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I can accept them speaking mostly English even though they're fully immersed in the culture now since we're Humans and we need to be able to watch the movie easily...
... what I can't accept, though, is the kids saying "bro" and "cuz" so often. It's 150+ years from now and there's no 21st-century TV there and nobody talks like that so there's no reason for them to have this "our era" slang in their vocabulary. Jake doesn't talk like this at all. It really took me away from the world-building that Cameron spends so much time on and I can't believe he went this way for this aspect of the culture.
I also feel they blew their wad with Quaritch way too soon that I'm not sure where they're gonna go from here with the story. It feels like he should have been at the end of this movie or, even better, the end of the second movie when he finally returns to wreak havoc.
I think Neytiri was mostly wasted.
Did the new movie actually look *worse* in many spots than the first Avatar in 2009? Maybe I was expecting too much considering how quickly technology advances but I felt underwhelmed with the visuals.
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I can accept them speaking mostly English even though they're fully immersed in the culture now since we're Humans and we need to be able to watch the movie easily...
... what I can't accept, though, is the kids saying "bro" and "cuz" so often. It's 150+ years from now and there's no 21st-century TV there and nobody talks like that so there's no reason for them to have this "our era" slang in their vocabulary. Jake doesn't talk like this at all. It really took me away from the world-building that Cameron spends so much time on and I can't believe he went this way for this aspect of the culture.
They weren't actually speaking English though. Jake explains it in his very first dialog and we hear his children go from speaking English to Na'vi mid-conversation. They're using Na'vi words and "bro" and "cuz" are close translations (keep in mind they are a very tribal/communal/family people) that the audience would understand. Jake calls non-family people "brother" and "sister" all the time.
I also feel they blew their wad with Quaritch way too soon that I'm not sure where they're gonna go from here with the story. It feels like he should have been at the end of this movie or, even better, the end of the second movie when he finally returns to wreak havoc.
Nah. He's got plenty of development left and his story can go a bunch of ways. Does he stick with the RDA, or does Pandora slowly convert him to the point he and Jake are fighting side-by-side in the 5th film?
I think Neytiri was mostly wasted.
She'll get her time to shine. I do think she had some of the best scenes in this movie though. Her going completely ape shit with rage before taking Spider hostage was pretty intense. My guess is she's going to end up being the hero/co-hero of the franchise (Jake's definitely going to die before the end).
Did the new movie actually look *worse* in many spots than the first Avatar in 2009? Maybe I was expecting too much considering how quickly technology advances but I felt underwhelmed with the visuals.
I thought it exceeded the first film in pretty much every category. I think the forest in the first film allowed a lot of imperfections to be hidden, especially during action sequences (think Jurassic Park at nighttime in the rain). James did say in a few interviews that the leaps in the latest tech weren't centered around graphics but rather capturing footage underwater and being able to motion capture dozens of actors and actresses at a time rather than just a handful.