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General => Movies and TV => Topic started by: The Letter M on July 26, 2022, 10:50:47 AM
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I figured I'd make a separate thread for BP2 so we can avoid possible spoilers in the main MCU thread.
Here is the first official teaser trailer for the film (https://youtu.be/RlOB3UALvrQ) (and here is the IMAX version (https://youtu.be/b6RNbM2GN3c)).
Personally, I like the inclusion of ancient Mayan culture into the history of the Atlanteans. Also, it looks like we get to see Namor being born and growing up in this film, so we get a bit more backstory within the MCU.
As for that final shot of the BP suit, there are tons of theories out there as to who could be in it. I'd love for it to be Nakia, but folks are hoping Killmonger somehow returns. At this point anything is possible. I just hope the film honors T'Challa and Chadwick Boseman in the best ways possible.
-Marc.
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I would be shocked if Shuri doesn't wind up wearing the uniform, but I am open to being shocked lol
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I would be shocked if Shuri doesn't wind up wearing the uniform, but I am open to being shocked lol
That's been the most expected course considering it happens in the comics, but the MCU has sometimes subverted expectations (to varying degrees of success). The difference here is, I don't think anyone would be too upset if someone OTHER than Shuri becomes the next/new BP, mostly because other characters like M"Baku, Nakia, and Okoye are all worthy and capable of becoming Black Panther.
-Marc.
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Not sure if anyone caught it, but I guess because DC did it first in the movies, Namor will not be king of Atlantis, but instead king of Talocan. Seems a made up name for the movie. Shame, but not a huge deal.
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Personally, I like the inclusion of ancient Mayan culture into the history of the Atlanteans. Also, it looks like we get to see Namor being born and growing up in this film, so we get a bit more backstory within the MCU.
Maybe. But I wouldn't necessarily assume. It could end up just being a short montage, like what we got with Thor in Love and Thunder. I remember a few theorists talking about how those clips would likely fit together to give us tons of flashback back story of Thor's early years. Then we got the film, and nope. Just a quick montage with Korg's voice over.
As for that final shot of the BP suit, there are tons of theories out there as to who could be in it. I'd love for it to be Nakia, but folks are hoping Killmonger somehow returns.
The Killmonger rumors could end up being true. But at this point, I haven't seen anything supporting them as anything more than fan speculation that some theorist have latched onto. From that briefest of clips, the hips seem to indicate that it is a woman. But that said, it could just be the body positioning that distort the hips too, so it could be a male. But I still lean toward the former.
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Not sure if anyone caught it, but I guess because DC did it first in the movies, Namor will not be king of Atlantis, but instead king of Talocan. Seems a made up name for the movie. Shame, but not a huge deal.
Maybe. I would assume we will get some sort of explanation that Atlantis is the common name that land dwellers gave to the "real" dwellers of Talocan, or something like that.
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Not sure if anyone caught it, but I guess because DC did it first in the movies, Namor will not be king of Atlantis, but instead king of Talocan. Seems a made up name for the movie. Shame, but not a huge deal.
Maybe. I would assume we will get some sort of explanation that Atlantis is the common name that land dwellers gave to the "real" dwellers of Talocan, or something like that.
Possible. Also likely they’ll avoid the name all together. Not a huge deal either way.
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I would be really surprised if they just avoided it. That would be weird.
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This is the poster they showed last weekend:
(https://www.okchicas.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Lanzan-primer-trailer-de-Black-Panther-2-Wakanda-Forever-1-1037x1536.jpg)
To me looks too subtle, too feminine, seeing the lines of it makes me believe we will have a female character as BP2
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It could be that multiple people suit up in the sequel. Shoes too big to be filled by one individual, or whatever.
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Possible spoilers
https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/marvel-lego-set-appears-confirm-new-black-panther-identity/
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Possible spoilers
https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/marvel-lego-set-appears-confirm-new-black-panther-identity/
The important part of that article for me is... Doctor Doom! :)
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Possible spoilers
https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/marvel-lego-set-appears-confirm-new-black-panther-identity/
The important part of that article for me is... Doctor Doom! :)
I've heard rumors elsewhere that Doom would be involved. Very exciting!!
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New trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKZlZBhB3Fk
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Possible spoilers
https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/marvel-lego-set-appears-confirm-new-black-panther-identity/
The important part of that article for me is... Doctor Doom! :)
I've heard rumors elsewhere that Doom would be involved. Very exciting!!
I read and interview where NAMOR says he is an antihero in this movie, which leaves room for a MAIN villain, if Doom is involved I'll be very excited to see him
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New trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKZlZBhB3Fk
I just got a Fandango notification as well saying tickets are on sale already.
I'll be at NY Comic Con this weekend, I'm hoping Marvel has footage for us, even if just a small thing :)
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Bought my ticket for Thursday night Nov 10th. Really looking forward to this!
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Bought my ticket for Thursday night Nov 10th. Really looking forward to this!
Ditto!
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New trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKZlZBhB3Fk
Holy crap
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Did not expect them to go all in on Namor's ankle wing things.
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Did not expect them to go all in on Namor's ankle wing things.
I was quite surprised by how WELL they executed his flying/hovering. It has a unique look to it that separates him from the other (very few) flying characters in the MCU so far. Off the top of my head, the only flyers we've had are Iron Man, War Machine, Thor, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Doctor Strange, and Captain Marvel. I might have missed a couple, but visually speaking, Namor's flight is quite unique and I'm excited to see more of him.
Riri Williams looks like she's having fun in her armor, and it's great to see a new face under the typical Iron Man-esque HUD. I hope her visuals maintain their quality for her show next year!
Bought my ticket for Thursday night Nov 10th. Really looking forward to this!
Ditto!
Got mine as well, 3:30pm on Thursday the 10th. I am not missing this one's first showing if I can help it! I missed opening night for Black Panther 1 back in 2018 as it opened on the weekend I was away for a convention and going to the movies wasn't in my itinerary, but this time will be different. Sadly, there weren't any showings of the BP Double Feature in my local Regal, so no free collector's coin for me. Ah well.
If you check Marvel Studio's socials, they've posted (at least) six gorgeous movie posters for the film. My favorites are the Dolby Digital and the REALD 3D posters., but the Screen X one is pretty dope as well.
I think the MCU's Phase 4 is going to go out with a bang with this one, and I'm willing to bet it'll break a billion easy in the first month. Every time there is a new trailer or sneak peek at this film, it seems excitement grows within the fan base!
-Marc.
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Namor would be cool, but the challenge would be trying to differentiate him enough from Aqua Man.
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Namor would be cool, but the challenge would be trying to differentiate him enough from Aqua Man.
Which it looks like they did.
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Did not expect them to go all in on Namor's ankle wing things.
That made me so happy.
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Only 10 more days! Several new clips and behind-the-scenes featurettes have been shared on social media and YouTube by Marvel themselves, so feel free to discuss anything shown in those, but from this point on, if you've read/heard leaks about the film that haven't been shown in any officially released footage, please try to avoid posting those spoilers!!!
-Marc.
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I'm a little surprised at all of the clips Marvel is sharing. I would think this is one film for which they wouldn't need to do that.
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Seeing BPWF later today at 3:30pm EST, cannot wait! The Disney+ app just sent me a notification suggesting I rewatch the first Black Panther film before seeing Wakanda Forever today so I just may do that.
-Marc.
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I was planning to watch it later tonight, but plans changed and I might not see it until next week.
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Seeing BPWF later today at 3:30pm EST, cannot wait! The Disney+ app just sent me a notification suggesting I rewatch the first Black Panther film before seeing Wakanda Forever today so I just may do that.
-Marc.
I watched it again last night.... Got my tix for 7:15 tonight!!
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I've got a ticket for a Saturday afternoon matinee. I should go back and re-watch the first one tonight or tomorrow night.
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Going with a few coworkers tonight. They neglected to tell me that it's nearly 3 hours long but... oh well. I did want to see it.
Martin Freeman will be the new BP.
Obviously.
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7:00 tonight on the biggest screen near me!
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Martin Freeman will be the new BP.
Obviously.
:lol
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7:00 tonight on the biggest screen near me!
Ditto.
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Martin Freeman will be the new BP.
Obviously.
White Panther?
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White Lion.
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White Savior.
Too much?
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Flattered. But as I've said, I'm not really "White," so...
Anyway, hope you enjoy! I really wish I could be there.
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Flattered. But as I've said, I'm not really "White," so...
Anyway, hope you enjoy! I really wish I could be there.
If anyone talks, I'll give them the banhammer on your behalf.
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From my personal Facebook post:
Wakanda Forever might be the most emotional MCU experience to date. It definitely did not hold back on the feels, but it was also suitably and appropriately action-packed. Everyone's performances were more than expected and the score was as much a part of the film as anyone on screen.
This might be a Top 5 MCU film for me, but definitely go see it for yourself. And if you can, watch the first one beforehand for an optimal experience.
There is one mid-credits scene, nothing after the credits but do stay for the music.
-Marc.
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Marc, just out of curiosity, knowing my criticisms for phase 4, do you think I will like it a lot? As you know from my posts, I'm pretty down on the MCU phase 4 films as a whole (although I love most of the D+ shows). But the trailers and promo materials have been great, and I'm looking forward to this.
I'm only asking because you pretty much seem to love everything, so it's hard to go off of what you wrote. :lol
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Marc, just out of curiosity, knowing my criticisms for phase 4, do you think I will like it a lot? As you know from my posts, I'm pretty down on the MCU phase 4 films as a whole (although I love most of the D+ shows). But the trailers and promo materials have been great, and I'm looking forward to this.
I'm only asking because you pretty much seem to love everything, so it's hard to go off of what you wrote. :lol
I can be a little easy to please but I like to find the good in all the entertainment I consume and not focus on what I dislike. Saves me a lot of turmoil when it comes to being overly critical.
I think if you liked the first Black Panther, this one should be right up your alley. The filmmakers and actors had an impossible task set before them and they put all their best performances forward. Whether you think they succeed or not will be up to you but I definitely think it's worth seeing, and quite possibly the best film of Phase 4. No Way Home has a ton of emotionally nostalgic beats going for it, but BPWF has a lot of purely emotional reasons to push it ahead of many of the MCU films.
There's also a lot that could be spoiled so if you're worried about being accidentally spoiled over the weekend, definitely see it ASAP.
-Marc.
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We don't have any definite plans, and this weekend is actually shaping up to be pretty chaotic, so we'll have to hold off a bit, unfortunately. But we'll get to it VERY soon.
Initially, I liked the first one, but didn't love it. I felt that it was good, but WAY overrated, and standard origin story fare for phases 1-3 (which is to say, really good). I've come to appreciate it more over time, and I feel like the subsequent MCU since then adds a lot of texture and emotion to that film and its characters.
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Just got home a bit ago. I liked it A LOT. Such a great tribute to Boseman. And there is a LOT of movie to check and unpack. I'm not sure how I will feel about all of it on further consideration but I enjoyed it and thought it was better than the first (which was good, but a bit overrated).
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Waiting for the mid credit scene... Just an outstanding film. Good performances, a solid story with a ton of heart, and an outstanding tribute to Boseman.
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Just got home.
No spoilers. I really liked this film a lot. I don’t walk into these movies with ideas of what should or shouldn’t happen or what makes a marvel movie a marvel or anything. I just want good writing, good directing, and good performances. This movie delivered all of that. It’s not without its flaws but they’re pretty minor.
Much more to say once we can talk spoilers.
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For me, aside from the heart that's woven throughout the movie for Chadwick, the real strength is the balance. They let the movie unfold without going heavy handed on any of the token Marvel tropes. They really just tell a good story, and took the time to do it. I think that was the biggest downfall of MoM and L&T was how they tried to forcefeed us an MCU story instead of telling us one, if that makes any sense.
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I enjoyed it a lot as well. I'm kind of over the whole massive hand to hand combat CGI laden battle to end the movie, so that was a little disappointing to me. But overall probably the most emotional MCU film to date and a good tribute to Boseman.
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I would not be surprised by a best supporting nod for Angela Bassett, she was amazing.
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I would not be surprised by a best supporting nod for Angela Bassett, she was amazing.
Agreed. She did a a great job.
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I would not be surprised by a best supporting nod for Angela Bassett, she was amazing.
Agreed. She did a a great job.
I could count the actors who could match that level of grief with responsibility for a country in such epic fashion on one hand.
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I’m in one of those fancy “sit in your recliner and waiters bring you drinks and food” type theaters and the movie is going to start in about 10 minutes.
We’re trying to squeeze some fun out of what has otherwise been a nightmare vacation.
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Angela gave an amazing performance, which I won't go into cause of spoilers, but I also really thought Namor and Shuri did an amazing job as well.
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Angela gave an amazing performance, which I won't go into cause of spoilers, but I also really thought Namor and Shuri did an amazing job as well.
Angela deserves an Oscar nom for this one for sure. Honestly, I don't feel like any actor was wasted in this one, even the smaller roles. I definitely want to try and see it a second time in theaters, though!
-Marc.
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Angela gave an amazing performance, which I won't go into cause of spoilers, but I also really thought Namor and Shuri did an amazing job as well.
Angela deserves an Oscar nom for this one for sure. Honestly, I don't feel like any actor was wasted in this one, even the smaller roles. I definitely want to try and see it a second time in theaters, though!
-Marc.
Totally agreed...I'd imagine the emotionality surrounding the whole production had everyone, especially the principles from the first film, bringing their A+ game.
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Just finishing watching the first Black Panther tonight ahead of the new one tomorrow. Man, I forgot how good Michael B Jordan was.
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I thought it was pretty good, probably liked it more than the first one. Yeah it's probably 20 minutes too long, it has a side plot with a new character that feels filler and only exists to set up a new tv-show or movie, I think it also suffers a bit from the normal MCU stuff (action sequences too CGI heavy, video game physics, characters without powers being invincible) but I was happy they scaled back a bit on the comedy. It felt appropriate to have this a bit more serious with the story and themes and I was so happy they didn't have Martin Freeman be the comedy sidekick that you get in 9/10 MCU movies going all "What are you some kind of panther broad? Catwoman?". The few funny bits that were felt natural.
Overall it was pretty good and I liked Namor too.
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Watching it later today :corn
Edit: Enjoyed that very much.thought the movie was really good and well done.
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Starting tomorrow, I will change the thread title to SPOILERS INSIDE so that those of us who have seen the film can discuss all of the plot details, twists and turns that captivated us! And that mid-credits scene, what it means, and what could be the plot of BP3!
So again, if you haven't seen the film yet, DO IT! Totally worth your time. Heck, if you're strapped for cash, catch a matinee or the Regal Crown Club discounted tickets on Tuesdays (they're like $7 for any movie, anytime on Tuesday). Spoiler discussion will begin tomorrow!
-Marc.
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Safe to assume most people have seen it? Or should we wait a little longer?
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Safe to assume most people have seen it? Or should we wait a little longer?
I've updated the thread title to allow spoiler discussion now. If you haven't seen it yet, definitely do not read past this point!.
Folks are free to discuss spoilers beyond this point!
-Marc.
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Just got back from seeing it. Overall, enjoyed it. I would put it in the upper tier of phase 4 films, with Black Widow, Shang Chi, and Spider Man. By default, it might be the best of them, or at least in the #2 spot. But I can't rank it so soon after seeing it. Recency bias and all.
Was not expecting Val or Kilmonger in it. Both were actually great appearances, especially the latter. SO many parallels with him and subtle nods to him throughout the film that left me legitimately not sure whether Shuri was going to go down a dark path. That was really well done.
Angela Bassett's queen was such a beautiful, strong character.
Namor was better than what I would have hoped they would have done with the character when I first found out he was coming to the MCU. But that said, he was still a bit of a letdown. He wasn't bad. But I expected more.
Anyhow, overall I liked it. More thoughts later.
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Wow, really surprised the discussion is this sparse. I guess people really are just finally getting tired of either the ubiquitousness of the MCU, the decline in quality, or both.
I just wanted to add something to what I posted above. And I want to be careful to not sound callous about losing Boseman when I say this. But I think we got a better film by not having him in it. If he was still around, we would have likely gotten another great actor in a decent but not great superhero movie. The movie we got was...as a superhero movie, it was okay. As a movie about world powers colonizing and exploiting other nations for their resources that just happened to have superheroes in it, it was good. As a movie about processing loss and grief that just happened to have superheroes in it, it was REALLY good. And we wouldn't have gotten that if not for the rewrites necessitated by Boseman's passing. Obviously, I'm not "glad" things happened the way he did. Better that he lives a full life and we get a lesser movie, 100 times out of 100. I'm not debating that. Just observing that the end result that we got is more likely than not a MUCH better, and MUCH more powerful film. And, really, I'm just trying to praise Coogler, the actors, and the rest involved in the film for very tastefully using the awful real-world circumstances of Boseman's passing to create something touching and memorable.
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I haven't been posting much in general cause it's been a bit of a crazy few weeks, but I did see it opening day.
I really loved this movie. It wasn't perfect. Yes, the Riri/Ross/Elaine stuff could've easily been cut, but it didn't detract from the movie and it didn't impact my enjoyment.
I thought Namor was a great character and I love the changes they made to him and his people from the comics. So I'm very excited to see more fo him over time.
I thought all of the characters brought their A games, and I think the writing was very well done, as was the directing. So I'd rank this pretty high in the MCU. Not top 5, but possibly top 10, but if not, it's just because of how many amazing movies they have, not because this one wasn't good.
So yea, big big fan of this one, and excited to watch it again when it hits blu ray or Disney +.
As far as why there's little discussion.....it could be because people didn't like the movie much. Or because the rest of Phase 4 kind of quelled the enthusiasm, or because we're being so overloaded with MCU content, that it's hard to feel any of it is very special any more.
If you give me an amazing movie 2 times a year, I get excited. When I get 5 movies, 4 tv shows and all are of varying quality, then it's hard to muster up the same level of excitement.
I know Marvel has no plans of slowing down, but it would probably be in their best interest to slow down.
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I enjoy watching other peoples discussions, but I haven’t really felt the need to go on any long rants lately.
It’s an interesting take that may be Marvel movies just aren’t as special anymore to the public in general. I know that for me I still look forward to every Marvel release with the same enthusiasm I had for the early phase 3 films. The enthusiasm for IW/EG was next level, so I separate those two films a bit. But I am hoping to be back to that same hype of anticipation by the time we get to TKD/SW.
I have noticed that, even though I am carrying the same level of enthusiasm, the enthusiasm of those around me has diminished quite a bit, and that does tend to take the wind out of my own sails. It’s hard to stay excited when you’re only running on your own power and you don’t have the added energy of those around you.
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I would have sworn I posted my thoughts here already, but I guess not.
Highly recommended if you're generally a fan of the MCU. It was a little bit bloated for sure, and once again everything culminates in a big CGI battle, but I enjoyed it. Angela Bassett was an absolute powerhouse and I liked the actor cast for Namor as well. The Michael B Jordan cameo was unexpected and that led to one of my favorite scenes in the whole movie. Obviously the specter of Chadwick Boseman loomed large over everything and gave a lot of the scenes/performances extra weight.
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I was waiting for the spoiler ban to be lifted. It's only been a few days...
I absolutely loved it. Top 5? That'll have to wait, but I deeply respect what they brought to the table in the most difficult of circumstances. They made an outstanding tribute film to Boseman, but nobody will deny that it's also 100% an MCU film, with all the necessary trappings.
Flaws- Yeah, there was some fluff that could've been trimmed, and the final battle didn't play out as lobsided as it was, definitely some suspension of belief was needed. (the big battle, not the Shuri/Namor one)
Pluses- The story, the sensitivity and care they dealt with Boseman, Killmonger!!, and how they used him to drive Shuri through her own major conflict in dealing with the loss of her brother and mother.
The best- Angela Basset... holy moly was she outstanding.
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I wrote my thoughts but was waiting until more people posted.
Given that the first Black Panther is a bottom tier movie for me, my expectations for this one were not that high, though I was hyped to see it. With that said, I loved this movie and can't wait to see it again. The tribute to Boseman/T'Challa was great. Everyone's acting was great, the plot I though was great. I'm a bit biased with this, but Namor might just be one of my favorite characters in the MCU and I love the change in his origin story.
For the bad, I'll get this out the way and say that I did not care for Shuri as Black Panther. Not sure if it was the plot, the actor, the newness of it or what, but I seriously did not care for Shuri as BP. I thought she was great in the first 3/4 of the movies but once she became the BP, it was a bit underwhelming for me. The other thing I did not like is that I wish we would have seen more of Namor under water. We saw what he could do on land and in the air, but we barely saw him in action under water, which is where his forte is.
Overall, a great movie with some minor flaws. However none of those flaws too away from me enjoying the movie.
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I watched this today it was as good, not great but it wasn’t bad.
I think it was a bit too long it could have been trimmed a bit.
I agree that I vmadera in that I liked shuri before being BP but as soon as she got in the suit I lost her.
It didn’t feel “right” it would have been better if the BP legacy to remain untouched IMO. Getting anew synthetic plant felt a bit forced to me. Plus if the plant is supposed to make you invincible how is that Tchala died anyway? Was he sick prior to becoming BP and that’s why he died? I would have prefer to see BP dying in the battle field. Why any of the avengers went to Tchala’s funeral? Scott, Bucky who BTW got a new arm in Wakanda, the Falcon? No one?!? Why would Namor give the bracelet of her mother to Shuri so easily? What happened during the blip in the deep sea? How did Shuri survived that spear?
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Have you guys ever read a comic book? :rollin :rollin :rollin
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Have you guys ever read a comic book? :rollin :rollin :rollin
Not in my country, I mean I have read comic books, but, like 4-5 in my entire life. Comic books are not something in this part of the hood
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The movies are telling a story in the same style that comic books have been written in for many many decades. Comic book nerds have been debating these types of questions since olden times with most coming up with some in-house logic. But the stories still endure.
IMO, that’s part of the charm and popularity of the MCU. For example. “Where was so-and-so when so-and-so was in trouble?” has always been a popular one. The answer is that not everything can be a crossover episode. So some McGuffin is manufactured to make someone unavailable. Then you can put an asterisk in the next comic showing that you can go read that comic if you want a better explanation.
The MCU is the first set of comic book movies that actually tell the story *like a comic book* instead of changing the way comic book stories are told in order to suit the big screen. And I think that’s part of the reason they continue to be successful
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No, they have been successful because they had a track record of mostly very good movies for the first 23. The problem isn't whether the audience has read comic books. The problem, which has been observed by many throughout phase 4, continues to be bad writing. I personally don't agree with all of Jorge's points. But the overall issue he is pointing to is that the writing in phase 4 has been inconsistent, sloppy, and at times, just bad.
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https://deadline.com/2022/12/black-panther-wakanda-forever-original-story-detailed-writer-director-ryan-coogler-1235206016/
Coogler details his original story for Wakanda Forever.
-Marc.
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Marvel announced today that Wakanda Forever will hit Disney+ on February 1st! I suspect a BD/DVD home video release will come a few weeks later.
-Marc.
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Just six days after it's release on Disney+, you can get BPWF on home video (DVD, BD, 4K, etc). Best Buy has not just one but TWO steelbooks this time, and the Talokan one is just gorgeous. Wal-Mart has a free pin included in its exclusive set (like with Thor: Love And Thunder). No Target exclusive set this time, and there wasn't one for Thor either, so I think DSITMOM was the last one they did. I don't think there have been any other Target Exclusive BD sets from Disney since last Spring/Summer either. A real shame as I liked their versions more than others.
(https://pisces.bbystatic.com/image2/BestBuy_US/images/products/6530/6530638_sd.jpg)
(https://pisces.bbystatic.com/image2/BestBuy_US/images/products/6530/6530647_sd.jpg)
-Marc.
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congrats to Angela Bassett on her Golden Globe win for best supporting actress!
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FINALLY saw this last night with the fam.
Wow, what a great film! Honestly, I enjoyed this one more than the first film. I loved what they did with Namor and his people. I loved that he got in an "Imperius Rex!" during his battle with Shuri (although linguistically, I'm not sure it makes sense lol).
Sure, there was some fat that could possibly have been cut (everything with Martin Freeman, Val, or Riri), but I can also see why they did it that way.
Just fanatastic. And Angela Bassett's Oscar nom is certainly well deserved!
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I just did a rewatch over the weekend and really liked it as well. Did the D+ version add/extend a few scenes? Seemed like there was some stuff I didn't remember, and I liked that content quite a bit. This was already easily the best film of phase 4, but now feels like it was even better.
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I just did a rewatch over the weekend and really liked it as well. Did the D+ version add/extend a few scenes? Seemed like there was some stuff I didn't remember, and I liked that content quite a bit. This was already easily the best film of phase 4, but now feels like it was even better.
Well, it was my first time seeing it, so I don't know for a fact. But that would be weird, and I certainly haven't heard anything about such a thing.
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I just did a rewatch over the weekend and really liked it as well. Did the D+ version add/extend a few scenes? Seemed like there was some stuff I didn't remember, and I liked that content quite a bit. This was already easily the best film of phase 4, but now feels like it was even better.
Well, it was my first time seeing it, so I don't know for a fact. But that would be weird, and I certainly haven't heard anything about such a thing.
Runtime is exactly the same from theatrical version to D+ version
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The Assembled for this movie was very, very emotional.
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Watched this last night and thought it was worst MCU movie to date. It was wayyyyy too long and the plot was all over the place. 6/10
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Watched this last night and thought it was worst MCU movie to date. It was wayyyyy too long and the plot was all over the place. 6/10
(https://y.yarn.co/ded54a5e-efdb-4e2b-8f0d-b4864902565f_text.gif)
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Watched this last night and thought it was worst MCU movie to date. It was wayyyyy too long and the plot was all over the place. 6/10
Wait... what?
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Watched this last night and thought it was worst MCU movie to date. It was wayyyyy too long and the plot was all over the place. 6/10
Did a rewatch this weekend and while nowhere near the worst, I certainly noticed it's flaws more on this watch. It is way too long, you could certainly remove most of the Freeman/Dreyfus stuff and improve the movie. Also most of the Ironheart stuff is bad writing and feels forced into the plot to introduce a new character, rather than naturally done. And I'm sorry but Namor's ankle wings are unintentionally funny, would have been better to change the source material here, because it just looks silly.
I still like it (and it's the best blue people living in water movie of the year!), but it's definitely moved a few places down.
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I'm sorry but Namor's ankle wings are unintentionally funny, would have been better to change the source material here, because it just looks silly.
I always thought they looked silly in the comics, but actually liked them in the movie. Particularly, because him a very different flying style, being mostly upright, rather than the typical mostly-horizontal Superman-style flight that other flying characters have.
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I think it was meh. For a movie called Wakanda Forever, there sure was very little Wakanda in it.
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I know this movie has its fans but I thought it was very average. The first hour was pretty good but after that it fell apart and I didn't at all believe in Shuri as the new Black Panther.
I think there is also a fair chance I am suffering from Marvel superhero fatigue. Since Endgame, I really haven't enjoyed any of the MCU movies.
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I bought it on 4K and watched it again last night. I really liked it.
I would concur that Phase 4 has been the “least best” of the MCU so far, but there has been a lot that I really enjoyed and just a couple klunkers.
Time to rank them?
1. Spider Man - No Way Home
2. Shang-Chi
3. Wakanda Forever
4. Black Widow
5. The Eternals
6. Dr. Strange
7. Love and Thunder
Personally, I think the top 3 are EXCELLENT films that I will rewatch with glee. Black Widow is in the “very good” pile. I think that repeated viewings might be kind to it…possibly placed in the order of the timeline which it was meant. But I really hated the ending.
The Eternals is just kind of “there”. It’s ok but it didn’t really thrill me either. I’m hoping that if they have a decent sequel, it will paint the first movie in a better light as a character set up story.
Didn’t really care for Dr Strange and Love and Thunder was pretty much the stinker of the bunch.
IMO, phase 4 was actually saved by the TV shows. NONE of which were bad. And a couple of them were better than any of the movies in this phase.
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Watched Wakanda Forever again over the weekend. Still fantastic, although not sure where I would rank it.
Upon further reflection, I now think that the worst MCU film to date is Thor: Love and Thunder.
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Watched Wakanda Forever again over the weekend. Still fantastic, although not sure where I would rank it.
Upon further reflection, I now think that the worst MCU film to date is Thor: Love and Thunder.
Agree with the last part.
I'm in the middle on Wakanda Forever, I thought the treatment they gave to T'challa was outstanding, and loved Shuri taking over the mantle. I will agree with some that the story got jumbled towards the end though.
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When I first saw the movie, I thought it was great. Saw it again last week, and while I agree that the flaws are a bit more noticeable, I thought it was still a great film.
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L&T definitely is going to take the torch as the worst MCU movie. <insert Bosk rant on how Eternals is that movie>
My biggest issue with WF is that the final fight ended with "we good now?" "yeah". Like all that death and destruction was literally for nothing.
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L&T definitely is going to take the torch as the worst MCU movie. <insert Bosk rant on how Eternals is that movie>
I really wanted to like Love and Thunder. The basic plot wasn't horrible, but the comedy mostly fell flat and it felt like too much was left on the cutting room floor, which is the exact opposite of most bloated MCU movies these days. And I think it's time for Thor to stop trying to find himself. Feels like he's been doing that for 4 movies now.
My biggest issue with WF is that the final fight ended with "we good now?" "yeah". Like all that death and destruction was literally for nothing.
Yeah, The ending was kind of underwhelming. I think it was easy to get caught up in the emotion of the movie and overlook stuff that on subsequent viewings really stand out.
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L&T definitely is going to take the torch as the worst MCU movie. <insert Bosk rant on how Eternals is that movie>
My biggest issue with WF is that the final fight ended with "we good now?" "yeah". Like all that death and destruction was literally for nothing.
I liked that. She was faced with ongoing war for the sake of "righting the scales" or whatever and thus more war and more death and more destruction or to realize that it WAS all for nothing, and to stop it now rather than let it keep going to somehow justify what had already been done.
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L&T definitely is going to take the torch as the worst MCU movie. <insert Bosk rant on how Eternals is that movie>
My biggest issue with WF is that the final fight ended with "we good now?" "yeah". Like all that death and destruction was literally for nothing.
I liked that. She was faced with ongoing war for the sake of "righting the scales" or whatever and thus more war and more death and more destruction or to realize that it WAS all for nothing, and to stop it now rather than let it keep going to somehow justify what had already been done.
I hear ya... but why couldn't they have gotten to that point without all the killing and what not?
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L&T definitely is going to take the torch as the worst MCU movie. <insert Bosk rant on how Eternals is that movie>
My biggest issue with WF is that the final fight ended with "we good now?" "yeah". Like all that death and destruction was literally for nothing.
I liked that. She was faced with ongoing war for the sake of "righting the scales" or whatever and thus more war and more death and more destruction or to realize that it WAS all for nothing, and to stop it now rather than let it keep going to somehow justify what had already been done.
I hear ya... but why couldn't they have gotten to that point without all the killing and what not?
Cause they're super emotional people who have a ton of pride and have suffered a lot of loss. Learning something doesn't have an impact if you knew it from the beginning.
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L&T definitely is going to take the torch as the worst MCU movie. <insert Bosk rant on how Eternals is that movie>
My biggest issue with WF is that the final fight ended with "we good now?" "yeah". Like all that death and destruction was literally for nothing.
I liked that. She was faced with ongoing war for the sake of "righting the scales" or whatever and thus more war and more death and more destruction or to realize that it WAS all for nothing, and to stop it now rather than let it keep going to somehow justify what had already been done.
I hear ya... but why couldn't they have gotten to that point without all the killing and what not?
That wouldn’t have been very realistic.
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L&T definitely is going to take the torch as the worst MCU movie. <insert Bosk rant on how Eternals is that movie>
My biggest issue with WF is that the final fight ended with "we good now?" "yeah". Like all that death and destruction was literally for nothing.
I liked that. She was faced with ongoing war for the sake of "righting the scales" or whatever and thus more war and more death and more destruction or to realize that it WAS all for nothing, and to stop it now rather than let it keep going to somehow justify what had already been done.
I hear ya... but why couldn't they have gotten to that point without all the killing and what not?
Cause they're super emotional people who have a ton of pride and have suffered a lot of loss. Learning something doesn't have an impact if you knew it from the beginning.
And it would've made for a very short movie
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Think if they'd just focused on Namors people going to war with Wakanda over the Vibranium and cut out all the convoluted bad writing about ironheart, the film would have been much more concise and better. I have nothing against Ironheart the character or actor I just think they were crowbarred into this story to it's detriment. Also think it won't help her own show when it arrives because they've made her to powerful to early (she basically goes toe to toe with Namor in the final battle).
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Think if they'd just focused on Namors people going to war with Wakanda over the Vibranium and cut out all the convoluted bad writing about ironheart, the film would have been much more concise and better. I have nothing against Ironheart the character or actor I just think they were crowbarred into this story to it's detriment. Also think it won't help her own show when it arrives because they've made her to powerful to early (she basically goes toe to toe with Namor in the final battle).
They nerfed her at the end by Shuri saying she couldn't take the Wakandan suit with her, so she's back to square one and building her own suit again once she's back at MIT or wherever she lives.
-Marc.
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Think if they'd just focused on Namors people going to war with Wakanda over the Vibranium and cut out all the convoluted bad writing about Ironheart, the film would have been much more concise and better. I have nothing against Ironheart the character or actor I just think they were crowbarred into this story to it's detriment. Also think it won't help her own show when it arrives because they've made her to powerful to early (she basically goes toe to toe with Namor in the final battle).
They nerfed her at the end by Shuri saying she couldn't take the Wakandan suit with her, so she's back to square one and building her own suit again once she's back at MIT or wherever she lives.
-Marc.
Yeah that was another example of a plot contrivance. But it's wasn't really the point, the suit itself isn't the problem as such, it's the fact that she basically has been introduced in this film already an amazing engineer and skilled pilot. Should have had the Ironheart TV show come out first and show her struggles building that first Mech we see and the issues learning to pilot it - that show could have ended with her being approached to build the Vibranium finding machine - linking up nicely to being of this film.
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Spider Man didn’t have any build up. He was already immensely powerful when we were first introduced to him.
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Think if they'd just focused on Namors people going to war with Wakanda over the Vibranium and cut out all the convoluted bad writing about ironheart, the film would have been much more concise and better. I have nothing against Ironheart the character or actor I just think they were crowbarred into this story to it's detriment.
The whole thing blew up because of Ironheart's vibranium detector finding the underwater vibranium. There was no inherent problem between Wakanda and Talokan.
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Spider Man didn’t have any build up. He was already immensely powerful when we were first introduced to him.
Well, he had 5 movies. :P
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Think if they'd just focused on Namors people going to war with Wakanda over the Vibranium and cut out all the convoluted bad writing about ironheart, the film would have been much more concise and better. I have nothing against Ironheart the character or actor I just think they were crowbarred into this story to it's detriment.
The whole thing blew up because of Ironheart's vibranium detector finding the underwater vibranium. There was no inherent problem between Wakanda and Talokan.
And the escalation was Namor's whole "if you're not with me (in going to war with the surface world), then you're against me".
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Think if they'd just focused on Namors people going to war with Wakanda over the Vibranium and cut out all the convoluted bad writing about ironheart, the film would have been much more concise and better. I have nothing against Ironheart the character or actor I just think they were crowbarred into this story to it's detriment.
The whole thing blew up because of Ironheart's vibranium detector finding the underwater vibranium. There was no inherent problem between Wakanda and Talokan.
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That's fine. But Namor then wanting Wakanda to go and kill the engineer who made the vibranium detector is all kinds of derpy writing.
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I really enjoyed the movie but I can very much recognize the "derpy" writing of how the plot kicks off in general. I'd change in one of two ways (off the top of my head) that doesn't completely re-write the movie.
1) Eliminate the entire CIA/American element all together. Have Wakanda be the people finding vibranium in the ocean and going to claim it. They have a quick skirmish with some Talokans, which escalates to big bad war. Easy peasy.
2) If you want the America/CIA element in there, because the idea of them looking for Vibranium makes perfect sense too, then have a war brewing between Americans and Taloka. Namor goes to Wakanda for help since he considers them similar because of Vibranium and they want to stay neutral, so he attacks them.
I'd prefer 1.
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L&T definitely is going to take the torch as the worst MCU movie. <insert Bosk rant on how Eternals is that movie>
I really wanted to like Love and Thunder. The basic plot wasn't horrible, but the comedy mostly fell flat and it felt like too much was left on the cutting room floor, which is the exact opposite of most bloated MCU movies these days. And I think it's time for Thor to stop trying to find himself. Feels like he's been doing that for 4 movies now.
I agree with all of that. Except maybe the last sentence. That's kind of Thor's thing, and it makes sense that he still would have been in that mode for Thor 4. It's just a shame it fell so flat. That movie had SO much potential and a lot of really good ideas. The execution was just so poor.
My biggest issue with WF is that the final fight ended with "we good now?" "yeah". Like all that death and destruction was literally for nothing.
Yeah, The ending was kind of underwhelming. I think it was easy to get caught up in the emotion of the movie and overlook stuff that on subsequent viewings really stand out.
I still really enjoyed it, but I don't disagree at all about many of the things you identified that hurt the film. Still easily the best of phase 4 for me. But that's also more of an indictment of phase 4 than an endorsement of WF. Still, the things I liked about WF far outweighed the things I didn't. Overall, it was a success as far as I'm concerned, and I liked it a lot more than the first one. If I were to rank the 4 phases together, WF feels to me like it would probably be about 1/3 of the way down the list, or a bit lower than that. Good movie with a few things that just bugged me a bit that could have easily been better.
L&T definitely is going to take the torch as the worst MCU movie. <insert Bosk rant on how Eternals is that movie>
Well, yeah. :biggrin: But back to my "phase 4 rant" mode, it says a lot to me about phase 4 that, this far in, we have 2 films from the same phase that are competing for dead last on a lot of people's lists. That just shouldn't be. That does not seem to be consistent with a franchise having enduring high standards. That, combined with how middling and flawed most of the upper half of phase 4 has been suggests a trend, and one that makes me sad as a fan of the MCU.
Which brings me to:
I really enjoyed the movie but I can very much recognize the "derpy" writing of how the plot kicks off in general. I'd change in one of two ways (off the top of my head) that doesn't completely re-write the movie....
Yeah, and here's the thing. In prior phases, having an MCU film where I couldn't help myself thinking, "This film was a mess and could have been fixed if only they had done X" never really happened. In phase 4, it has been a common theme. Nothing--or at least, very little--in phases 1-3 needed to be "fixed." Phase 4? The majority of films.
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Just watched this. Some great acting but overall it bored me and I looked forward to the end. Also:
Namor's wings looked ridiculous.
The girl in the Transformers comic book suit seemed totally irrelevant.
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Watched the Assembled behind-the-scenes feature on Disney +. Very nice.
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We finally watched it last night on Disney+. I might have fallen asleep a few times.
The story itself wasn't horrible, but it could've been trimmed up a bit, perhaps even a lot. Mostly though, I felt like it was a story about a bunch of secondary characters from the first Black Panther movie, and a few new ones, and a new threat from someone we've never heard of that seemed kinda half-baked and misguided. And some other stuff thrown in just to tie it to other MCU stuff, kinda. Overall I found myself just not caring about a lot of what was going on.
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Think if they'd just focused on Namors people going to war with Wakanda over the Vibranium and cut out all the convoluted bad writing about Ironheart, the film would have been much more concise and better. I have nothing against Ironheart the character or actor I just think they were crowbarred into this story to it's detriment. Also think it won't help her own show when it arrives because they've made her to powerful to early (she basically goes toe to toe with Namor in the final battle).
They nerfed her at the end by Shuri saying she couldn't take the Wakandan suit with her, so she's back to square one and building her own suit again once she's back at MIT or wherever she lives.
-Marc.
Yeah that was another example of a plot contrivance. But it's wasn't really the point, the suit itself isn't the problem as such, it's the fact that she basically has been introduced in this film already an amazing engineer and skilled pilot. Should have had the Ironheart TV show come out first and show her struggles building that first Mech we see and the issues learning to pilot it - that show could have ended with her being approached to build the Vibranium finding machine - linking up nicely to being of this film.
That would have been much better.
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We finally watched it last night on Disney+. I might have fallen asleep a few times.
The story itself wasn't horrible, but it could've been trimmed up a bit, perhaps even a lot. Mostly though, I felt like it was a story about a bunch of secondary characters from the first Black Panther movie, and a few new ones, and a new threat from someone we've never heard of that seemed kinda half-baked and misguided. And some other stuff thrown in just to tie it to other MCU stuff, kinda. Overall I found myself just not caring about a lot of what was going on.
Well, that is certainly a take on it.
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It kind of had to focus on secondary characters.
And for any movie, falling asleep during it several times kind of impacts your perception of it. Maybe the movie bored you. That’s cool. But if I fell asleep in any movie, I missed too much to actually review it or judge it. You know?
To this day I don’t talk about incredible 2 cause I fell asleep a few times at the theater. So I don’t remember it making any sense. Obviously.
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It kind of had to focus on secondary characters.
And for any movie, falling asleep during it several times kind of impacts your perception of it. Maybe the movie bored you. That’s cool. But if I fell asleep in any movie, I missed too much to actually review it or judge it. You know?
To this day I don’t talk about incredible 2 cause I fell asleep a few times at the theater. So I don’t remember it making any sense. Obviously.
True, and not always does the movie itself be the reason one might fall asleep. Sometimes you put something on and you just happen to be tired that day/evening, or your mind just isn't into it at the time, so you find yourself distracted or drifting. I agree with Adami, though, in that if you didn't see the whole thing, it doesn't seem fair to really judge or review it. It would be like taking a couple bites out of a meal and not tasting the whole thing, then reviewing it. Sure, you experienced SOME of it, but you missed out on the whole experience.
-Marc.
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Okay, I guess I wasn't clear. I was tired, but basically the story was not engaging me. I didn't care about the characters, and I didn't care about the story. If a movie is engaging me and makes me care, I do not fall asleep. But this was boring, and stupid.
Wakanda has always been the sole source of vibranium, because it is where the meteorite that brought it hit Earth. Now it turns out that there was a second meteorite, also bringing vibranium, and furthermore it spawned another highly advanced civilization, one that in some ways exceeds Wakanda, yet has remained hidden all this time, just like Wakanda. Their emissary seems to be some guy with tiny little wings on his ankles which somehow defy all known physics and enable him to fly and even maneuver and fight in mid-air. And an American student designed a device which can detect vibranium, so they want to kill her. And since Wakanda does not agree with killing her, Wakanda will instead be the first nation to get wiped out by the new bad guys. Come on. None of that makes any fucking sense.
Meanwhile, some of the Dora Milaje are having some personal issues. I suppose that could have been interesting if I cared about them and their personal issues.
Also, Martin Freeman and Julia Louis-Dreyfuss were in it. I do not think that they could have been interesting under any circumstances.
It is possible that after I nodded off the first time, I missed something that might have made things more interesting, but this was not very engaging movie.
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Ok, now I feel a little like a simpleton because Orbert just described the plot perfectly, and with the exception of the physics of the flying bad guy, I fail to see how any of that DIDN’T make sense. :sad: :huh:
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Wakanda has always been the sole source of vibranium, because it is where the meteorite that brought it hit Earth. Now it turns out that there was a second meteorite, also bringing vibranium, and furthermore it spawned another highly advanced civilization, one that in some ways exceeds Wakanda, yet has remained hidden all this time, just like Wakanda. Their emissary seems to be some guy with tiny little wings on his ankles which somehow defy all known physics and enable him to fly and even maneuver and fight in mid-air. And an American student designed a device which can detect vibranium, so they want to kill her. And since Wakanda does not agree with killing her, Wakanda will instead be the first nation to get wiped out by the new bad guys. Come on. None of that makes any fucking sense.
Hey, if you didn't like it, you didn't like it. But you could type out the plot of almost any superhero film and end it with "None of that makes any fucking sense." :lol
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Wakanda has always been the sole source of vibranium, because it is where the meteorite that brought it hit Earth. Now it turns out that there was a second meteorite, also bringing vibranium, and furthermore it spawned another highly advanced civilization, one that in some ways exceeds Wakanda, yet has remained hidden all this time, just like Wakanda. Their emissary seems to be some guy with tiny little wings on his ankles which somehow defy all known physics and enable him to fly and even maneuver and fight in mid-air. And an American student designed a device which can detect vibranium, so they want to kill her. And since Wakanda does not agree with killing her, Wakanda will instead be the first nation to get wiped out by the new bad guys. Come on. None of that makes any fucking sense.
Hey, if you didn't like it, you didn't like it. But you could type out the plot of almost any superhero film and end it with "None of that makes any fucking sense." :lol
I was gonna say...that can be applied to any MCU movie...I mean type out Endgame's plot and see how reasonable that is, and we all collectively agree that's a masterpiece.
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Bob, sounds like the movie wasn’t for you. It’s all good. I can see how a lot of it seems silly and uninteresting even if I ended up really digging it. I can still notice a lot of the flaws you point out.
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Needed a more focused plot could have started by trimming out Freeman, Dreyfuss and Ironheart.
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Needed a more focused plot could have started by trimming out Freeman, Dreyfuss and Ironheart.
While I don't disagree, I do enjoy seeing Ironheart here. This film definitely had a Herculean task of continuing the legacy of the Black Panther, while also trying to introduce Namor and Talokan, but also setting up other things down the line with the MCU, such as Ironheart herself, and whatever Val has cooking with the CIA and the Vibranium race (that will likely be continued with Captain America: New World Order and The Thunderbolts next year).
It's funny that a lot of complaints about MCU Phase 4 were that they didn't have a lot of connective tissue or that it didn't move the overarching MCU plot along, so when BPWF comes along and tries to do a bit of that, some fans see it as bloating a film that didn't try hard enough to focus on the Black Panther but tried to do way too much to connect itself to the over-all MCU plot. I personally enjoyed it and I think that once we are further along in to Phases 5 and 6, this film will make more sense when we get more of these characters down the line.
-Marc.
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I am sensing a new recast is on the way. Tenoch Huerta has been accused of sexual assault. I know accused is not guilty, but I don't see Marvel/Disney giving too much time to this guy.
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I am sensing a new recast is on the way. Tenoch Huerta has been accused of sexual assault. I know accused is not guilty, but I don't see Marvel/Disney giving too much time to this guy.
Was that villain supposed to play a big role as phase 5 rolls out? I don’t know that I see a need for him to return right away. It felt like his society was preferring not being known by anyone anyway.
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I am sensing a new recast is on the way. Tenoch Huerta has been accused of sexual assault. I know accused is not guilty, but I don't see Marvel/Disney giving too much time to this guy.
Was that villain supposed to play a big role as phase 5 rolls out? I don’t know that I see a need for him to return right away. It felt like his society was preferring not being known by anyone anyway.
There were rumors that Namor would play a pivotal role in the upcoming Avengers films.
Very upsetting to see that news earlier and I'm hoping the victim is alright considering her history.
With regards to the future of the MCU, I'm not surprised that they've kept pretty quiet about things beyond 2023. I also won't be surprised if they don't have a presence at SDCC this summer.
-Marc.
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His character struck me as one of those more “neutral” characters. Someone that could fight for the good side or the bad side, depending on their personal leanings. Sortof like Scarlet Witch kind of went from bad to good and then back to bad again. I could totally see his character taking a similar arc.
The thing is (and I could be alone on this) he doesn’t strike me as being an actor who is tied to his character like Boseman was to BP or many of the others. I could totally see him being recast and no one batting an eye. Even Majors is owning his role as Kang so well, that I would have a difficult time seeing anyone else in the role. But Namor…not so much. I could see him being recast as easily as the Hulk was.
But we’ll see how it shakes out.
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His character struck me as one of those more “neutral” characters. Someone that could fight for the good side or the bad side, depending on their personal leanings. Sortof like Scarlet Witch kind of went from bad to good and then back to bad again. I could totally see his character taking a similar arc.
The thing is (and I could be alone on this) he doesn’t strike me as being an actor who is tied to his character like Boseman was to BP or many of the others. I could totally see him being recast and no one batting an eye. Even Majors is owning his role as Kang so well, that I would have a difficult time seeing anyone else in the role. But Namor…not so much. I could see him being recast as easily as the Hulk was.
But we’ll see how it shakes out.
I agree they could easily recast Namor in a few years and no one would bat an eye. I also think they could just never bring the character back and no one would really think twice.
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The way the story ended was opened enough that they can just ignore his character and it wouldn't affect the overall story. Any plans they had for him I'm sure can be adjusted. Personally, I hope we see more of Namor, because I like the character.
The accusation doesn't seem to be about a specific incident, but more of a general accusation. We'll see where this goes.
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Tenoch Huerta issue a statement today, and denies sexual assault.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/tenoch-huerta-denies-sexual-assault-allegations-1235513215/
If it ends being true, this, and King will show how well the casting people are choosing "bad guys"