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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: jammindude on March 27, 2022, 09:03:33 PM
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So this happened at the Oscar’s tonight.
Probably the most exciting thing that’s happened at the Oscar’s in 20 years.
Apparently Chris rock was doing his regular stick and happen to make an offhand crack about the fact that Jada Pinkett Smith was rocking a bald look (she’s actually got a condition that causes this) Will Smith walked up to the stage and bitch slapped him into next week.
Here’s the two minute clip:
https://youtu.be/BOsPuUnvK9E
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So this happened at the Oscar’s tonight.
Probably the most exciting thing that’s happened at the Oscar’s in 20 years.
Apparently Chris rock was doing his regular stick and happen to make an offhand crack about the fact that Jada Pinkett Smith was rocking a bald look (she’s actually got a condition that causes this) Will Smith walked up to the stage and bitch slapped him into next week.
Here’s the two minute clip:
https://youtu.be/BOsPuUnvK9E
Wow. At first that looked like it was part of the schtick, but seeing Will’s reaction afterwards, clearly it was not.
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Well...guess we know what we'll be hearing about for the next month. Can't believe Will did that, just fucking lame. Does he really have that little self control to assault someone in front of 10 million people?
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Saw this on Twitter.
I think it was real and not scripted, although the fact that Smith was laughing at the joke and then almost looked like he was trying to suppress a smile when walking back to his chair made me wonder. I can't imagine him screaming at him like that would have been a part of anything planned (I doubt Smith would want to participate in a skit to perpetuate the angry black man stereotype), and the way his wife was looking at him when he was screaming was definitely the look of a wife who was a bit taken aback by her hubby's anger.
Also, how was Smith allowed to remain there? You can assault someone on live TV and just sit back in your chair and enjoy the rest of the show?
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If he ends up winning, his acceptance speech should be interesting.
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About the laugh:
Things happen so fast in a moment like that. I can totally see a scenario where Will (who’s not expecting the joke) has a split second initial reaction of “rolling with it”. Because let’s face it, that’s what’s expected. But then it hits him that Chris just made a crack about his wife’s medical condition, and suddenly decided that was way over the line, and took action. Not necessarily the right one. But like I said, nitpicking these situations after the fact is futile because that entire scenario went from joke to slap in about 30 seconds. That’s way too fast to think anything was going to play out the way you logically think it might.
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Wow.
And the won the Oscar. Did anyone see his speech? Curious how that went.
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Dang, if this helps generate buzz for the Academy and gets people watching these snoozefests again, they should bring in Jeff Ross and resurrect Greg Giraldo for future shows.
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It even looked like he was laughing at first. I was joking with my friends that he slapped him because otherwise Jada would've slapped Will :lol
That was a good joke, too and at least one of them handled it like an adult. Jada rolled her eyes like a lot of targets of jokes do. Will Smith handled that worse than Kanye interrupting Taylor Swift. :lol
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About the laugh:
Things happen so fast in a moment like that. I can totally see a scenario where Will (who’s not expecting the joke) has a split second initial reaction of “rolling with it”. Because let’s face it, that’s what’s expected. But then it hits him that Chris just made a crack about his wife’s medical condition, and suddenly decided that was way over the line, and took action. Not necessarily the right one. But like I said, nitpicking these situations after the fact is futile because that entire scenario went from joke to slap in about 30 seconds. That’s way too fast to think anything was going to play out the way you logically think it might.
Agreed.
Wow.
And the won the Oscar. Did anyone see his speech? Curious how that went.
I caught the very end of it. Unreal that he was allowed to stay and accept the award. And the Hollywood elite wonder why less and less people are watching, when someone is allowed to assault the host on stage on live TV and then be allowed to stay.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FO55a1mVkAcI9X8?format=jpg&name=large)
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FO55a1mVkAcI9X8?format=jpg&name=large)
:rollin :rollin :rollin
Stealing!!!
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The best part is Rock going, "I could..." and then trailed off and got back on topic, which told me had an instant zinger, one that likely would have made Smith run back on stage and tackle him before hitting him again, but Rock opted for not making the situation worse. Comedians are always witty as hell, and I am sure Rock had about 384 one-liners in his head that would have made the crowd laugh and Smith cry.
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Hitting him and then going back to your seat like you did what needed to be done and it's time to move on would have been cool. Screaming at him like a lunatic afterward seemed over the top, though. Dude's got anger management problems.
Also, WS laughed at the joke. His old lady clearly didn't think it as cool. That's why the delayed reaction.
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Here's his acceptance speech....hysterical part is YT's algorithm suggested the next video for me would be Yes- Love Will Find a Way :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTewPgb7J6U&ab_channel=sn1p3r847 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTewPgb7J6U&ab_channel=sn1p3r847)
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Also this...
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277166309_5285431071546043_7541837213116820435_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=pzhS-PWG4GIAX9QksG8&_nc_oc=AQkW-Neaen9AA05JjUAQq5y_22JGxLeGVFj9avGIgr4z7CQRuNiecd_bczuNs57q184kWYbENrI63YB7KLpjt3aK&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=00_AT-weYKmmk6imR8JmgSXfU3Q5yCMuDaCAyeS0dXD1ZhkTA&oe=6246F68F)
The meme game is going to be hella strong tomorrow...
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Curious to see how the media handles this. I don't imagine Chris gives two shits about the fallout, but that's just a guess. How Will presents himself the next 24 hours could be important to his career. Or maybe he is too big to fail at this point.
Also a good thing it was someone who is, um.... like Chris, who did that, as otherwise the resulting story would develop VERY differently.
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I noticed that Will talked about being a “vessel of love” and apologized to the academy.
But honestly (and as most of you know, I’m a devout practicing Christian…not perfect…but I have knowledge of what is required of me) …it would have gone a long way if he had taken that moment to apologize to Chris. That’s not saying that what he did or said was ok, but if he wants to be what he claims, that is the sometimes very difficult path of doing it. Doing the right thing even when you don’t want to BECAUSE it’s the right thing to do.
You’re not saying that what he did was ok, you’re admitting that your reaction wasn’t ok. The rest is up to Chris.
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I was very surprised he didn't apologize to Chris in his speech, pretty bad form if you ask me.
Happy to see Dune bitchslapped the competition tonight, nabbed every award except the big one. They're saving that for Dune 2 I'd imagine.
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Man, ya gotta love FOX News.
Will Smith says 'love makes you do crazy things' in tearful speech after violent onstage meltdown
(https://a57.foxnews.com/hp.foxnews.com/images/2022/03/1024/576/48d855c4847348cfdc56c3026e01bab5.png?tl=1&ve=1)
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"God is calling upon me to love people" says the man who physically assaulted Chris Rock on television and in front of a live audience. Couldn't even apologize to Chris. And that level of anger after just laughing at the joke, oof, something is going on. Whatever it is I hope he's okay, cause Chris got years of jokes out of this now.
The sad thing is almost nobody would've remembered the joke if he hadn't done anything. Now it's gonna be historic.
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what I think is... with the 2 year pandemic and a freaking war going on in the world absolutely EVERYONE is barely holding it together and the cracks are showing up everywhere.
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He slapped a person in front of everyone with anger and then he got the award and then everyone stood up and applauded him. WoW.
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Hard to know if it was scripted or not. If it's unscripted, Will Smith assaulted him. There could be charges brought.
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Always think a dude slapping another dude is really odd. Didn't Smith learn anything when playing Ali in a movie? - close your fist and hit him proper.
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The "joke" was unwarranted. The response, even more so.
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I find it odd that he was laughing at the joke before he decided it was uncalled for. Under the thumb or not, the change in reaction was strange.
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This makes Will look unhinged to say the least.
It was not really a good joke, but I don't see how it is so offensive either? I did not even take it as making fun of alopecia, more like a quirky way of saying "your current look reminds me of". Looked up GI Jane, being compared to Demi's look there is not a bad thing either.
Loving all the memes though :lol
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(https://i.postimg.cc/wB8Hj1n3/FB-IMG-1648464618963.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xXRBs1fS)
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Hard to know if it was scripted or not. If it's unscripted, Will Smith assaulted him. There could be charges brought.
Seems Rock won't be filing a report.
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The thing that baffles me most is that Will Smith =was able to go back to his seat and stay there for the rest of the night, instead of being thrown out. He really made a fool out of himself.
And truth be told, I don't really give a damn about this sort of thing, but watching that video this Chris Rock seems like an awesome person. You have to be strong to handle this situation like he did. Wow.
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West Philadelphia born and raised, indeed.
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The thing that baffles me most is that Will Smith =was able to go back to his seat and stay there for the rest of the night, instead of being thrown out. He really made a fool out of himself.
And truth be told, I don't really give a damn about this sort of thing, but watching that video this Chris Rock seems like an awesome person. You have to be strong to handle this situation like he did. Wow.
I think another issue is this sets a bad precedent for seemingly getting on stage and hitting a comedian when he makes a joke you don't like.
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Well...guess we know what we'll be hearing about for the next month. Can't believe Will did that, just fucking lame. Does he really have that little self control to assault someone in front of 10 million people?
Dang, if this helps generate buzz for the Academy and gets people watching these snoozefests again, they should bring in Jeff Ross and resurrect Greg Giraldo for future shows.
It's statements like this that lead me to believe this was all a work. I'm 50/50 ... but for those of us old enough to remember, we all thought this was legit (for decades) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv73yzYuE_M
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Well...guess we know what we'll be hearing about for the next month. Can't believe Will did that, just fucking lame. Does he really have that little self control to assault someone in front of 10 million people?
Dang, if this helps generate buzz for the Academy and gets people watching these snoozefests again, they should bring in Jeff Ross and resurrect Greg Giraldo for future shows.
It's statements like this that lead me to believe this was all a work. I'm 50/50 ... but for those of us old enough to remember, we all thought this was legit (for decades) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv73yzYuE_M
It wasn't?
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Honestly Chris Rock struggling to recover his speech thing showed it was real. Dude was completely in shock.
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Well...guess we know what we'll be hearing about for the next month. Can't believe Will did that, just fucking lame. Does he really have that little self control to assault someone in front of 10 million people?
Dang, if this helps generate buzz for the Academy and gets people watching these snoozefests again, they should bring in Jeff Ross and resurrect Greg Giraldo for future shows.
It's statements like this that lead me to believe this was all a work. I'm 50/50 ... but for those of us old enough to remember, we all thought this was legit (for decades) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv73yzYuE_M
It wasn't?
(https://c.tenor.com/K5plZZhM7K4AAAAC/the-joker-heath-ledger.gif)
Jerry "THE KING" Lawler gives an in depth tell all on that famous David Letterman episode with Andy Kaufman (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJuMcmMV5BM)
Honestly Chris Rock struggling to recover his speech thing showed it was real. Dude was completely in shock.
That's why I'm only 50/50
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Hard to know if it was scripted or not. If it's unscripted, Will Smith assaulted him. There could be charges brought.
Seems Rock won't be filing a report.
I didn't think he would. I am sure the right people got in his ear and told him, "We need to stick together and protect our own." Knowing how Hollywood works, Rock probably would have been frozen out if he had filed charges.
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what I think is... with the 2 year pandemic and a freaking war going on in the world absolutely EVERYONE is barely holding it together and the cracks are showing up everywhere.
Please. "Pandemic", "war".... other words for "life". These are all excuses. Have some self control. Deal with your anger.
I'm not losing a minutes sleep over this - I stopped watching the Oscars decades ago - but this is just another example of hypocrisy from the Hollywood elite. YOUR anger is "hate", but MY anger is "love". Please.
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This whole thing sends a horrible message.
I've spent years playing shows in bars, and I can't tell you how many times a perceived slight on some dude's woman resulted in an all-out brawl. The come the police. Then come the charges.
But, you walk up to someone on live television and strike them (which very realistically could've been much worse for Rock and could have even resulted in a concussion) and there are literally no consequences? Here's an award and a 5-minute platform? Talk about sending the wrong message.
I'm trying to teach my 13-year old that violence solves nothing, and yet, the first thing he said last night was 'Good for Will.'
Ugghhh, if you're not rich, this doesn't go this way.
And don't even get me started on the precedent this sets for comedians :facepalm:
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what I think is... with the 2 year pandemic and a freaking war going on in the world absolutely EVERYONE is barely holding it together and the cracks are showing up everywhere.
Please. "Pandemic", "war".... other words for "life". These are all excuses. Have some self control. Deal with your anger.
Keep my life's name out your &@^@^ing mouth!
Also where are you physically right now? I need to see if it's worth the trip.
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What a shameful display.
Will's sitting there happily laughing at everyone else's expense, but as soon as it touches him, he gets all pissy. To the point of assaulting someone. He legit slapped the shit out of Chris. That was full on contact. Chris has got to be pushing 60 at this point. Can't rule out a good hit to the head doing some damage. Will could have handled that a million other ways. Go pull a Kanye and take the mic and say something like "We're all here to have a good laugh, but on behalf on my wife and other people with unavoidable medical conditions, perhaps it's best we leave certain jokes in the bag", and then just casually exit. But no, he doubles down by screaming obscenities at the stage.
Kudo's for Chris for handling that live with the level of class that he did, even if he had to check himself.
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The fact that an obscure prog-metal discussion forum is seeing this much chatter on the topic is starting to solidify my belief this is a work. If we're chatting about it this much, it's gonna be amped up 100x through social media, mainstream news, and the entertainment rags. The Oscars haven't had this much buzz in years or decades.
It's a work, folks.
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Yea, that was a really bad thing for him to do.
Was the joke good? No. It was a dumb joke, but it was largely vanilla. He made a bald joke. I lost my hair at 18 years old. So I get being sensitive about bald jokes. But if someone said to me "Hey Adami....looking forward to seeing you King and I 2!" I'd think it was dumb, but offensive to the point where I'd slap someone? Good god. When Chris Rock said "it's a GI Jane 2 joke!" I don't think it was to excuse it or say it was a good joke, but just that was so kind of nothing. All of the awards shows have tons of roasting as parts of them. Ricky Gervais has never been slapped but this one not only gets a slap but gets the excuse of "love makes you do crazy things" followed by a round of applause? Eh.
Also to Stadler's point, I don't think this has anything to do with the Hollywood elite. I have no idea how anyone else in Hollywood sees the event, just Will's personal hypocrisy which I'd agree with. If a ton of actors/directors/producers etc put out a statement defending Will, then I'll be on your side, but right now it's a bit premature to say anything about systemic hypocrisy. There's a number of reasons why he was allowed to stay and people didn't do much, likely just being unsure what to do. But we'll see. Right now I don't see much defense of him.
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The fact that an obscure prog-metal discussion forum is seeing this much chatter on the topic is starting to solidify my belief this is a work. If we're chatting about it this much, it's gonna be amped up 100x through social media, mainstream news, and the entertainment rags. The Oscars haven't had this much buzz in years or decades.
It's a work, folks.
Maybe it is, but maybe it isn't. The way Chris Rock struggled later to announce the category makes me feel it wasn't scripted, but only they know.
I think if Chris would have responded with the same manner, then security would have been involved, but because Will sat down, and Chris continue with his thing, it was probably best to just continue and deal with it behind closed doors.
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what I think is... with the 2 year pandemic and a freaking war going on in the world absolutely EVERYONE is barely holding it together and the cracks are showing up everywhere.
Please. "Pandemic", "war".... other words for "life". These are all excuses. Have some self control. Deal with your anger.
Keep my life's name out your &@^@^ing mouth!
Also where are you physically right now? I need to see if it's worth the trip.
I'm in Connecticut.
But I think you know what I mean even if I wasn't crystal clear; I'm not saying that these things aren't potentially major stressors, but as I say a lot here, if EVERYONE has a story, then in one sense, NO ONE has a story. Why is "pandemic" acceptable for Will Smith slapping a man on stage in front of millions of people, but, say, "pandemic" isn't okay for someone frustrated with the current political climate? Why is "war" acceptable for Will Smith slapping a man on stage in front of millions of people, but, say, "war" isn't okay for someone who lets a epithet fly, or maybe is a little handsy on a date?
So much of this is subjective, and based on what the individual prioritizes, and we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that on an individual level, people can prioritize things very differently.
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what I think is... with the 2 year pandemic and a freaking war going on in the world absolutely EVERYONE is barely holding it together and the cracks are showing up everywhere.
Please. "Pandemic", "war".... other words for "life". These are all excuses. Have some self control. Deal with your anger.
Keep my life's name out your &@^@^ing mouth!
Also where are you physically right now? I need to see if it's worth the trip.
I'm in Connecticut.
But I think you know what I mean even if I wasn't crystal clear; I'm not saying that these things aren't potentially major stressors, but as I say a lot here, if EVERYONE has a story, then in one sense, NO ONE has a story. Why is "pandemic" acceptable for Will Smith slapping a man on stage in front of millions of people, but, say, "pandemic" isn't okay for someone frustrated with the current political climate? Why is "war" acceptable for Will Smith slapping a man on stage in front of millions of people, but, say, "war" isn't okay for someone who lets a epithet fly, or maybe is a little handsy on a date?
So much of this is subjective, and based on what the individual prioritizes, and we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that on an individual level, people can prioritize things very differently.
Oh no, I was agreeing with you. Just being silly. There's no justification for slapping Rock like that. I doubt Will Smith did it because of the war with Ukraine or Covid.
Although if he slapped Rock and then said "TAKE THAT PUTIN!" that would have been interesting.
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Also to Stadler's point, I don't think this has anything to do with the Hollywood elite. I have no idea how anyone else in Hollywood sees the event, just Will's personal hypocrisy which I'd agree with. If a ton of actors/directors/producers etc put out a statement defending Will, then I'll be on your side, but right now it's a bit premature to say anything about systemic hypocrisy. There's a number of reasons why he was allowed to stay and people didn't do much, likely just being unsure what to do. But we'll see. Right now I don't see much defense of him.
I'm willing to concede the "Hollywood elite" thing; I struggled mightily with that phrase to be honest. I think (I hope) you all see I'm going for a specific thought, though, about the tendency that some of us have to subjectivize this sort of thing around our OWN view of the world. We live in a far too divisive society and events like this, to me, simply serve to highlight that separation.
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Also to Stadler's point, I don't think this has anything to do with the Hollywood elite. I have no idea how anyone else in Hollywood sees the event, just Will's personal hypocrisy which I'd agree with. If a ton of actors/directors/producers etc put out a statement defending Will, then I'll be on your side, but right now it's a bit premature to say anything about systemic hypocrisy. There's a number of reasons why he was allowed to stay and people didn't do much, likely just being unsure what to do. But we'll see. Right now I don't see much defense of him.
I'm willing to concede the "Hollywood elite" thing; I struggled mightily with that phrase to be honest. I think (I hope) you all see I'm going for a specific thought, though, about the tendency that some of us have to subjectivize this sort of thing around our OWN view of the world. We live in a far too divisive society and events like this, to me, simply serve to highlight that separation.
Totally, but this applies to every group. I can't imagine a single group that doesn't "understand and explain away" their group's things while condemning the same thing to others.
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The fact that an obscure prog-metal discussion forum is seeing this much chatter on the topic is starting to solidify my belief this is a work. If we're chatting about it this much, it's gonna be amped up 100x through social media, mainstream news, and the entertainment rags. The Oscars haven't had this much buzz in years or decades.
It's a work, folks.
I don't... While I think Will and Chris could be a part of such a scheme, I 100% don't think Jada would be willing to put her platform as a spokesperson for alopecia up to such a scenario. She's way more serious than either man, and doesn't seem the type to humiliate herself for a scripted sham.
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I'm curious how this would've gone if it was Wanda Sykes that made this joke.
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Also to Stadler's point, I don't think this has anything to do with the Hollywood elite. I have no idea how anyone else in Hollywood sees the event, just Will's personal hypocrisy which I'd agree with. If a ton of actors/directors/producers etc put out a statement defending Will, then I'll be on your side, but right now it's a bit premature to say anything about systemic hypocrisy. There's a number of reasons why he was allowed to stay and people didn't do much, likely just being unsure what to do. But we'll see. Right now I don't see much defense of him.
I'm willing to concede the "Hollywood elite" thing; I struggled mightily with that phrase to be honest. I think (I hope) you all see I'm going for a specific thought, though, about the tendency that some of us have to subjectivize this sort of thing around our OWN view of the world. We live in a far too divisive society and events like this, to me, simply serve to highlight that separation.
Totally, but this applies to every group. I can't imagine a single group that doesn't "understand and explain away" their group's things while condemning the same thing to others.
And that's probably true. But right now, we're talking about a group of predominantly liberal, predominantly affluent, predominantly entitled people trying to assimilate out-of-the-norm behavior in a way that may or may not ring true outside of that group. And, and this is the crux of my bigger point, may even be tone-deaf to the way others outside their group would either handle that situation or assimilate it.
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I'm curious how this would've gone if it was Wanda Sykes that made this joke.
Or Robert Downey, Jr. had done the slapping.
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I'm curious how this would've gone if it was Wanda Sykes that made this joke.
Or Robert Downey, Jr. had done the slapping.
Or The Rock had made the joke...
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I'm curious how this would've gone if it was Wanda Sykes that made this joke.
Or Robert Downey, Jr. had done the slapping.
Or The Rock had made the joke...
If The Rock had slapped Wanda Sykes.....that would have been something.
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I'm curious how this would've gone if it was Wanda Sykes that made this joke.
Or Robert Downey, Jr. had done the slapping.
Or The Rock had made the joke...
If The Rock had slapped Wanda Sykes.....that would have been something.
The Oscar's we deserve for sure.
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This whole thing sends a horrible message.
I've spent years playing shows in bars, and I can't tell you how many times a perceived slight on some dude's woman resulted in an all-out brawl. The come the police. Then come the charges.
But, you walk up to someone on live television and strike them (which very realistically could've been much worse for Rock and could have even resulted in a concussion) and there are literally no consequences? Here's an award and a 5-minute platform? Talk about sending the wrong message.
I'm trying to teach my 13-year old that violence solves nothing, and yet, the first thing he said last night was 'Good for Will.'
Ugghhh, if you're not rich, this doesn't go this way.
And don't even get me started on the precedent this sets for comedians :facepalm:
What a shameful display.
Will's sitting there happily laughing at everyone else's expense, but as soon as it touches him, he gets all pissy. To the point of assaulting someone. He legit slapped the shit out of Chris. That was full on contact. Chris has got to be pushing 60 at this point. Can't rule out a good hit to the head doing some damage. Will could have handled that a million other ways. Go pull a Kanye and take the mic and say something like "We're all here to have a good laugh, but on behalf on my wife and other people with unavoidable medical conditions, perhaps it's best we leave certain jokes in the bag", and then just casually exit. But no, he doubles down by screaming obscenities at the stage.
Kudo's for Chris for handling that live with the level of class that he did, even if he had to check himself.
Agree with all of this 100%
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TBH my first concern in this whole bruhaha is the safety of Jada and their kids. What Will Smith did threw down red flags for everyone who has ever been raised in a home with domestic violence. If Smith acts this way during an award show in front of millions of people, what is he doing behind closed doors when he gets upset?
Also - Chris Rock may have seemed insensitive to Jada's alopecia but if you've ever seen the movie GI Jane you know Demi Moore played a badass and got into some incredible shape for the role. Yeah, black women can be sensitive about their hair (well, all women and even some men) but it wasn't really the put down that everyone is making it out to be.
And ironically Chris Rock made a documentary many years ago about black women and hair called "Good Hair" that is a really interesting film that taught me a shit ton about black women and hair that I never knew before.
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This is going to set some kind of meme record. Maybe even t-shirts and bumper stickers.
"Keep my **insert here** oucho effin mouth"!
They're probably already half done with South Park episode too.
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They're probably already half done with South Park episode too.
:lol
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I don't know.....I've watched that slap in slo mo multiple times now and I'm still not convinced this wasn't staged. For what reason or to serve what purpose.....who knows....maybe to get people talking about a ceremony that no one gives a :censored about anymore. It won't surprise me one bit if/when in a week or two it's revealed this was all planned out.
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Meh. Should have taken it outside and had it proper scrap about it.
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The fact that an obscure prog-metal discussion forum is seeing this much chatter on the topic is starting to solidify my belief this is a work. If we're chatting about it this much, it's gonna be amped up 100x through social media, mainstream news, and the entertainment rags. The Oscars haven't had this much buzz in years or decades.
It's a work, folks.
It's not a work.
It's a complete loss of control by Will Smith. I didn't care for him very much before that, but I can't stand his sorry ass now.
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He could have challenged Chris Rock to a boxing fight for charity (maybe for an organization that fights the disease that caused his wife to go bald) and have it on PPV if he was that upset about the joke. That's the trend nowadays right?
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They're probably already half done with South Park episode too.
You should watch the two Post-Covid specials they released on Paramount+ last year. In the future, Jimmy is a successful talk-show host. His jokes are awesome.
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Eh, this don't look fake to me.
The reaction of Chris, the sound of the hit, the screaming of Will afterwards, the sound being cut off (expect for the Japan broadcast, apparently; they had a different script then?).
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I don't know.....I've watched that slap in slo mo multiple times now and I'm still not convinced this wasn't staged. For what reason or to serve what purpose.....who knows....maybe to get people talking about a ceremony that no one gives a :censored about anymore. It won't surprise me one bit if/when in a week or two it's revealed this was all planned out.
I was in this camp as well until I read this morning that the police got involved (Chris won't be filing charges).
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The Oscars are just as lame as the movies they come out with these days. :\
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I actually miss being able to see most of the Oscar movies. I prefer seeing the more prestige movies in theater. Not necessarily a packed theater with Imax, but just a big screen that I am not tempted to be on my phone, or play a game, or get up and walk around. It's just not as alluring at home.
Hopefully next year!
Though I'll definitely have to check out Power of the Dog and Coda at some point.
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I was on vacation last night and just saw this now.
Haven't read the whole thread, but I support Will for doing it. He alluded to it in his speech that actors are supposed to sit there and take it from a comedian/host at awards shows and laugh along, even if it hits a sore spot. Good for him for taking a stand when he felt that it crossed a line. Maybe it will take some of the more tawdry humor out of the awards season and bring it back to more respectful humor.
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I was on vacation last night and just saw this now.
Haven't read the whole thread, but I support Will for doing it. He alluded to it in his speech that actors are supposed to sit there and take it from a comedian/host at awards shows and laugh along, even if it hits a sore spot. Good for him for taking a stand when he felt that it crossed a line. Maybe it will take some of the more tawdry humor out of the awards season and bring it back to more respectful humor.
While I support his right to defend his wife, he also has a massive platform, and basically told millions of kids that violence is an answer, and I totally and fully disagree with how he went about this. There were infinite options to derive an outcome from, and he took the one that assuaged his ego the most.
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I was on vacation last night and just saw this now.
Haven't read the whole thread, but I support Will for doing it. He alluded to it in his speech that actors are supposed to sit there and take it from a comedian/host at awards shows and laugh along, even if it hits a sore spot. Good for him for taking a stand when he felt that it crossed a line. Maybe it will take some of the more tawdry humor out of the awards season and bring it back to more respectful humor.
So if a comedian makes a joke....any joke....at someone's expense, they have your full support to get up and smack the person?
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Yeah, I don't agree. You know it's a bit of a roast for hosts on stage. Take your little Itty, bitty lumps and get over yourself.
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Also, this is the only time I've seen people describe baldness as an autoimmune disorder. I am bald, as far as I know, it's because I have alopecia....like almost every other bald person who lost their hair early on.
Has anyone ever watched TV for the last 40 years? Literally every rom com movie and show has a joke making fun of bald people. Do I get to smack someone if they make a bald joke?
Again, I'm 37 and have been bald for almost 20 years. I've heard a billion and a half bald jokes. Would I get support for smacking everyone who made one?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole alopecia thing? I dunno.
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It's almost like Will didn't have a choice at that point. He may have been in a lot more trouble with his wife if he didn't react. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Still not justified, but..
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It's almost like Will didn't have a choice at that point. He may have been in a lot more trouble with his wife if he didn't react. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Still not justified, but..
Dude had a choice. Dude made a choice.
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As I suggested before, celebrity boxing match for charity. I think it would have made him feel better about the whole thing.
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I was on vacation last night and just saw this now.
Haven't read the whole thread, but I support Will for doing it. He alluded to it in his speech that actors are supposed to sit there and take it from a comedian/host at awards shows and laugh along, even if it hits a sore spot. Good for him for taking a stand when he felt that it crossed a line. Maybe it will take some of the more tawdry humor out of the awards season and bring it back to more respectful humor.
I can't get onboard with that. Violence in exchange for words, especially words that are part of a standup bit, is inexcusable. I also don't know if that joke could be consider tawdry. I guess you could argue that going after her for the condition is cheap, but he paired it with her being part of an incredibly powerful, female led role. One could argue there was a compliment in there.
He didn't "take a stand". He flew off the handle and acted like a fool. Something like this would have been taking a stand:
(https://preview.redd.it/r6xmq71kj4q81.jpg?width=923&auto=webp&s=b2791f54bb2d0a5bb8ccd6d5656d9fd58aac2c5d)
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It's almost like Will didn't have a choice at that point. He may have been in a lot more treouble with his wife if he didn't react. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Still not justified, but..
Dude had a choice. Dude made a choice.
I know, you are absolutely right. It definitely could have been handled a lot better, but his instinct to defend his wife could easily cloud good judgement. Human imperfection being displayed with a lack of self control.
The yelling afterwards was almost worse than the slap.
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I was on vacation last night and just saw this now.
Haven't read the whole thread, but I support Will for doing it. He alluded to it in his speech that actors are supposed to sit there and take it from a comedian/host at awards shows and laugh along, even if it hits a sore spot. Good for him for taking a stand when he felt that it crossed a line. Maybe it will take some of the more tawdry humor out of the awards season and bring it back to more respectful humor.
Come on.
That man said something I didn't like, so it's OK if I get up and hit him? It wasn't even a malicious joke or comment. It's not like Chris Rock called Jada a whore.
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I hope Will remembers that little show he starred on for 6 seasons where his character regularly mocked a bald man.
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If he handled himself in a professional manor, we all would be talking about his first ever win. No one is talking about it now. I still wonder if Chris was getting pressured not to file charges.
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Again, I ask if I am missing something with the alopecia thing.
I think what's annoying me most is, again...as a bald man....I've been exposed to countless bald jokes for my entire adult life. Being a bald guy is seen as the worst thing a guy can be in so many forms of media. We're mocked, ridiculed, and seen as disgusting (obviously not 100% of the time, thank you Sir Patrick Stewart for your service) and no one cares. We laugh, we smile, we keep the joke going.
Chris Rock makes a silly nothing joke about Jada and suddenly he's mocking her autoimmune disease that she's a hero for struggling with?
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Chris Rock makes a silly nothing joke about Jada and suddenly he's mocking her autoimmune disease that she's a hero for struggling with?
You got it!
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Maybe leading up to the Oscars, Jada struggled with her shaved head because of the Alopecia and Will was comforting her. So both were sensitive to the situation. That's probably why they came out with the statement. So Chris might have not known the situation was flammable. I would say the Smiths handled this very poorly.
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Also, this is the only time I've seen people describe baldness as an autoimmune disorder. I am bald, as far as I know, it's because I have alopecia....like almost every other bald person who lost their hair early on.
Has anyone ever watched TV for the last 40 years? Literally every rom com movie and show has a joke making fun of bald people. Do I get to smack someone if they make a bald joke?
Again, I'm 37 and have been bald for almost 20 years. I've heard a billion and a half bald jokes. Would I get support for smacking everyone who made one?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole alopecia thing? I dunno.
I'm no expert here, but there is hair loss that is hereditary, but there is hair loss that IS a result of an autoimmune disorder. There used to be a guy that played for Uconn Basketball and then in the NBA - Charlie Villanueva - and he had no hair on his body (I'm taking other people's word for that below his neck) from a young age, and it was my understanding that it was not just your normal "my dad was bald" kind of thing. It was a specific disease that he had.
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Also, this is the only time I've seen people describe baldness as an autoimmune disorder. I am bald, as far as I know, it's because I have alopecia....like almost every other bald person who lost their hair early on.
Has anyone ever watched TV for the last 40 years? Literally every rom com movie and show has a joke making fun of bald people. Do I get to smack someone if they make a bald joke?
Again, I'm 37 and have been bald for almost 20 years. I've heard a billion and a half bald jokes. Would I get support for smacking everyone who made one?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole alopecia thing? I dunno.
I'm no expert here, but there is hair loss that is hereditary, but there is hair loss that IS a result of an autoimmune disorder. There used to be a guy that played for Uconn Basketball and then in the NBA - Charlie Villanueva - and he had no hair on his body (I'm taking other people's word for that below his neck) from a young age, and it was my understanding that it was not just your normal "my dad was bald" kind of thing. It was a specific disease that he had.
I appreciate that!
Then I guess I find it odd that one type of bald is okay to mock, and even a societal norm, but one isn't. Seems dumb to me. Losing my hair at 18 because of genetics isn't any less horrible than someone losing their hair later in life because of autoimmune disorder that, as far as I can read, only results in baldness. But apparently one group is okay to mock and one group is not. Cool.
Edit: I get being bald as a result of chemo being off limits because it's tied to cancer treatment. But from what I've read, Jada's thing and my thing only differ in cause, and that's mostly it. I don't see how that matters a ton. You can call hers an autoimmune disorder and call mine a genetic hereditary abnormality. I can't see it mattering a ton.
Edit 2: I am not saying it's cool to mock her. I wish all bald jokes would go away. They're cruel and degrading. I guess I'm just annoyed at the notion of a man being praised (by some, definitely not all) for defending a bald woman with violence while getting his start on a TV show that often had him mocking a bald character for being bald. We cheer Jada on as a hero yet see bald men as easy punchlines and apparently the irony is not being discussed much. Which is odd. Isn't hollywood mostly run by bald men?
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I think what's annoying me most is, again...as a bald man....I've been exposed to countless bald jokes for my entire adult life. Being a bald guy is seen as the worst thing a guy can be in so many forms of media. We're mocked, ridiculed, and seen as disgusting (obviously not 100% of the time, thank you Sir Patrick Stewart for your service) and no one cares. We laugh, we smile, we keep the joke going.
(https://c.tenor.com/a1Y8bNDxDvEAAAAd/bald-curb.gif)
:heart
My bald spot is about the same size and in the same location as a yamaka. It's steadily getting larger. I'll be there soon enough.
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I was diagnosed with alopecia two months ago. It's definitely not something to joke about and I really felt for Jada in that moment when Chris Rock made the "G.I. Jane" joke. I'm a 40-something guy who has always had thick hair, and last year multiple bald patches suddenly appeared on my chin and neck as well as on the left side and rear of my head (the top of my head is fine so far). The facial hair isn't so bad, because I can shave it close and it's not so noticeable, but the side and back of the head makes me feel insecure. I have a three-inch bald patch on the side of my head that's almost shaped like the United States of America as well as a patch about the size of a half dollar on the back of my head. I wear hats all the time now, because I'm just not ready to shave my head on a daily basis like Bruce Willis. I guess my point is that, as someone with alopecia who has been hiding his head, it felt good to see Will stand up for Jada. But it was not the right way to handle it.
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Also, this is the only time I've seen people describe baldness as an autoimmune disorder. I am bald, as far as I know, it's because I have alopecia....like almost every other bald person who lost their hair early on.
Has anyone ever watched TV for the last 40 years? Literally every rom com movie and show has a joke making fun of bald people. Do I get to smack someone if they make a bald joke?
Again, I'm 37 and have been bald for almost 20 years. I've heard a billion and a half bald jokes. Would I get support for smacking everyone who made one?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole alopecia thing? I dunno.
I'm no expert here, but there is hair loss that is hereditary, but there is hair loss that IS a result of an autoimmune disorder. There used to be a guy that played for Uconn Basketball and then in the NBA - Charlie Villanueva - and he had no hair on his body (I'm taking other people's word for that below his neck) from a young age, and it was my understanding that it was not just your normal "my dad was bald" kind of thing. It was a specific disease that he had.
I appreciate that!
Then I guess I find it odd that one type of bald is okay to mock, and even a societal norm, but one isn't. Seems dumb to me. Losing my hair at 18 because of genetics isn't any less horrible than someone losing their hair later in life because of autoimmune disorder that, as far as I can read, only results in baldness. But apparently one group is okay to mock and one group is not. Cool.
Edit: I get being bald as a result of chemo being off limits because it's tied to cancer treatment. But from what I've read, Jada's thing and my thing only differ in cause, and that's mostly it. I don't see how that matters a ton. You can call hers an autoimmune disorder and call mine a genetic hereditary abnormality. I can't see it mattering a ton.
Genetics vs disease I think is different, but insulting someone's appearance is pretty tacky in general. Another layer to add is that this joke was specifically about a black woman's hair - which has been a hot political discussion also.
I've tried to reflect on my internalized biases and I understand I am seeing this situation through the eyes of privilege. I am not black. I do not have a disability or a disease. I still think reacting to an insult with violence isn't the best decision and neither was the choice to speak the insult. One side doesn't have to be the right side.
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I get that genetics vs disease is very different, but when the outcome isn't terribly different, I don't see why it matters. Unless her condition has a ton of other major health problems, which as far as I can see, it doesn't. He was joking about her hair cut, that was it.
If someone had joked about Bruce Willis being bald (hell, could have made the same joke since he was married to Demi) and he got up and smacked the person making it, NO ONE would be calling Bruce Willis a hero. One form of bald is perfectly okay to mock and insult and another is off limits, simply determined by the cause that has no other impact?
Edit: I think I'm going to bow out. I'm clearly a bit emotional about this and I don't want to make this about that. I'll let you all keep going and I'll come back if I can be a bit more impartial and not upset. Sorry about that.
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If he handled himself in a professional manor
I could be mistaken, as I don't follow the awards all that closely, but I think he handled himself in a semi-professional theater.
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If he handled himself in a professional manor
I could be mistaken, as I don't follow the awards all that closely, but I think he handled himself in a semi-professional theater.
:lol
Manner. See, even I can handle it gracefully. :lol
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If he handled himself in a professional manor
I could be mistaken, as I don't follow the awards all that closely, but I think he handled himself in a semi-professional theater.
:lol
Manner. See, even I can handle it gracefully. :lol
So we're not gonna get video of King bitch slapping Bosk?
Bummer...
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it felt good to see Will stand up for Jada. But it was not the right way to handle it.
That's my take on it. I don't support violence in any way and this should've be handled off stage in a non violence way but at the same time though, it did felt heartwarming to see someone standing up for their wife in a live televised event like the Oscars, I mean sure I don't think it crossed his mind right at that moment that this punch would be immortalized on the internet forever. :lol
Btw I didn't even know the Oscars was going on, now I know. :laugh:
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You never hit someone in response to a joke. Good God. Will and Jada live better than most people on the entire planet and he reacts to a soft joke that way? A grown ass man. And the sheer amount of privilege shown by Smith that he was allowed to remain there, and then still accept a prestigious award, is crazy to me.
Personal thoughts: I have several friends who defend their own friends (gay, trans, minority etc) fiercely, from jokes, rhetoric, and even real physical violence. At the same time, they fully support the physical attack on Chris Rock over a joke. I've had one friend completely insult me and my way of approaching conflict because I absolutely try to avoid physical altercations at all cost. Some of the conversation surrounding this really disturbs me, that so many people I know who consider themselves tolerant are advocating violent reactions to comedy and insulting taking the high road. And I see people wanting Rock to apologize, but not Smith. I feel like I'm in bizarro world today amongst everyone I know.
The joke was mild. Smith was unhinged and honestly it's kind of disturbing given that he was laughing with everyone else.
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You never hit someone in response to a joke. Good God. Will and Jada live better than most people on the entire planet and he reacts to a soft joke that way? A grown ass man. And the sheer amount of privilege shown by Smith that he was allowed to remain there, and then still accept a prestigious award, is crazy to me.
Personal thoughts: I have several friends who defend their own friends (gay, trans, minority etc) fiercely, from jokes, rhetoric, and even real physical violence. At the same time, they fully support the physical attack on Chris Rock over a joke. I've had one friend completely insult me and my way of approaching conflict because I absolutely try to avoid physical altercations at all cost. Some of the conversation surrounding this really disturbs me, that so many people I know who consider themselves tolerant are advocating violent reactions to comedy and insulting taking the high road. And I see people wanting Rock to apologize, but not Smith. I feel like I'm in bizarro world today amongst everyone I know.
The joke was mild. Smith was unhinged and honestly it's kind of disturbing given that he was laughing with everyone else.
This. If anyone's takeaway from this is that Will 'did what he had to do,' then a disturbing message has been sent and reinforced.
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Yup... His status as a role model to countless people should be trashed, and deservedly so.
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It's a work, folks.
It's not a road I'm willing to die on, but this is my belief as well. Let's not forget, Oscars were going downhill for years. These guys are ACTORs so they can play the role much better than most so if their reactions seem legit, it's because they know what they are doing. But I'd actually say the reactions were a give away that it was a work, specifically the moments right before and immediately after the slap. Add in that he was not removed from the event. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was real. The whole thing is quite odd and the fact it's completely blown up every corner of the internet kind of makes me not want to talk or engage with it anymore.
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People are saying you don't get to deck somebody over a joke, and I get that. I agree with that. Two things, though. One was that people do lose their cool. It might not be right, but it happens. More important, though, is that his wife was very clearly bothered by the joke. My hunch is that WS would have laughed it off were it directed at him, and likely could have dished some back. The dude upset his wife, though. Is he supposed to explain to her that it was just a joke and she should deal with it?
I'm not suggesting that bitch slapping Rock was the right thing to do. I think it was a measured response, though. Wil has trained to box, and I'm not sure how much in his life has prepared Rock for taking a real punch to the chin. Could have been a lot worse. Dude lost his cool, and honestly wound up hurting himself more than Rock, but it's hardly the end of the world. Shouting at the stage after he did was much more troubling, I think. Dude looked totally unhinged.
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It could only be a work if both of them had something to gain.
NO ONE gained anything.
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People are saying you don't get to deck somebody over a joke, and I get that. I agree with that. Two things, though. One was that people do lose their cool. It might not be right, but it happens. More important, though, is that his wife was very clearly bothered by the joke. My hunch is that WS would have laughed it off were it directed at him, and likely could have dished some back. The dude upset his wife, though. Is he supposed to explain to her that it was just a joke and she should deal with it?
I'm not suggesting that bitch slapping Rock was the right thing to do. I think it was a measured response, though. Wil has trained to box, and I'm not sure how much in his life has prepared Rock for taking a real punch to the chin. Could have been a lot worse. Dude lost his cool, and honestly wound up hurting himself more than Rock, but it's hardly the end of the world. Shouting at the stage after he did was much more troubling, I think. Dude looked totally unhinged.
Yeah, his state of mind post-slap was a demonstration of a complete lack of emotional maturity. It was raw rage personified.
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I'm glad he didn't have a gun.
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Eff Will Smith. What a clown. Everyone has already well explained the total hypocrisy on display. Guy needs anger management therapy.
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It could only be a work if both of them had something to gain.
NO ONE gained anything.
Oh yes they did. Jada's show is going to get a nice boost and Chris rock is getting a lot of love. People are more likely to tune in next year. There is no such thing as bad publicity, EVERYONE is talking about that and that is a win even for Will Smith who came out looking the worst, but seemed to be having a great time afterwards.
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If Mike Portnoy had gotten up on the Dream Theater stage and slapped James LaBrie or Mike Mangini, we'd be having a very different discussion.
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I think the bigger issue here is that the Academy Awards signed off on that joke, according to Ricky Gervais. It's super easy to blame one guy for telling a bad or disrespectful joke when the power structure that is at play with the AMPAS allowed and encouraged it. They also didn't ask a violent guest to leave the auditorium because they knew he was going to get his award and that would have looked bad for business.
Rock is lucky it was only a slap. Had he been punched and fallen and hit his head, this situation could be 1000x worse right now. And that easily could've been the case. Even a minor head injury can be fatal. Just ask Bob Saget's family.
FTR, according to Diddy the 2 men made up minutes after the incident back stage. I have yet to hear anything from Jada who IMO is the one who's opinion truly matters.
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It could only be a work if both of them had something to gain.
NO ONE gained anything.
Oh yes they did. Jada's show is going to get a nice boost and Chris rock is getting a lot of love. People are more likely to tune in next year. There is no such thing as bad publicity, EVERYONE is talking about that and that is a win even for Will Smith who came out looking the worst, but seemed to be having a great time afterwards.
That's not the kind of publicity that stars on WS or CR's level look for. This is some third-rate Dancing With The Stars-level bullshit.
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I was on vacation last night and just saw this now.
Haven't read the whole thread, but I support Will for doing it. He alluded to it in his speech that actors are supposed to sit there and take it from a comedian/host at awards shows and laugh along, even if it hits a sore spot. Good for him for taking a stand when he felt that it crossed a line. Maybe it will take some of the more tawdry humor out of the awards season and bring it back to more respectful humor.
Come on.
That man said something I didn't like, so it's OK if I get up and hit him? It wasn't even a malicious joke or comment. It's not like Chris Rock called Jada a whore.
I just wrote about this not a week or so ago, though I'm blanking on the thread now; we've been moving in this direction for years now. This is the "words have consequences!" extrapolation. Hate speech - and this is NOT hate speech on any level - is protected speech. Only words INTENDED to provoke imminent violence are not protected (and that Will Smith responded with violence doesn't make Rock's words wrong in the First Amendment sense of the word). It's easy to point to consequences; "oh, call someone a fag or wop and you deserve to face the consequences!". And I always ask, "who gets to decide what those consequences are?" Will Smith did. And in effect, Chris Rock did, too; let's face it, he presses charges, he's a pariah. There was no choice there. We're now at the stage where as long as there's an appropriate and politically correct level of offense, then words aren't sacred anymore. Will Smith is just acting out our deepest fantasies, if we're being honest about it.
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I was on vacation last night and just saw this now.
Haven't read the whole thread, but I support Will for doing it. He alluded to it in his speech that actors are supposed to sit there and take it from a comedian/host at awards shows and laugh along, even if it hits a sore spot. Good for him for taking a stand when he felt that it crossed a line. Maybe it will take some of the more tawdry humor out of the awards season and bring it back to more respectful humor.
Post less please.
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A funny comment I saw was that Smith wouldn't have been so eager to do that had that been THE Rock and not Chris Rock. :lol :lol
Honestly, while not surprised, to see so many online applauding Smith for his assault is really disheartening.
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If Mike Portnoy had gotten up on the Dream Theater stage and slapped James LaBrie or Mike Mangini, we'd be having a very different discussion.
Not that he would ever….but if JLB made a crack about Marlene, from the stage, with both Mike and Marlene in attendance, Mike would most likely have done much more than a slap.
However, I do not advocate that course of action. I am of the firm opinion that that sort of behavior is completely inappropriate. There are other ways of dealing with this stuff.
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Not that he would ever….but if JLB made a crack about Marlene, from the stage, with both Mike and Marlene in attendance, Mike would most likely have done much more than a slap.
Yep, he likely would have spat at James rather than attempted a slap. :lol :lol
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I think the bigger issue here is that the Academy Awards signed off on that joke, according to Ricky Gervais.
I'm not a Ricky Gervais fan, but he's hosted the Oscars before, so he would know. People forget that the hosts are essentially working from a script, a script that is approved by The Academy. If Chris Rock had gone off-script and ad-libbed a hateful remark, then maybe he deserves some kind of shit for it. But if all he did was read a joke that had been "approved" then maybe he's still wrong to go along with it, but he doesn't deserve for some asshole to walk up and hit him in the face.
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Wow... perhaps it is work because everyone is talking about it. Oscar this, Oscar that... I wouldn't have opened this thread if the title was Oscar (blank); I opened the thread because of the word "clocks". That's the point I think, if it is staged.
If it's not work and Jada really did have a problem with it, so much so that Will had to go Men in Black on Chris Rock, then meet somewhere and duke it out privately. Yell and scream at each other for 5 or 10 minutes and get it out. In my opinion, a man should not put his hands on another man unless physically provoked by the other man; and even then not in front of cameras for goodness sake. Meet the guy in the parking lot and see where it goes. Live on TV for possibly hundreds to see, poor choice of timing.
Yelling is yelling and words are words; contact though, is another matter. Chris might be a bit older, but it's not like didn't have the chance to try and take care of it physically. What CR did do was smart in my estimation... he has jokes on top of jokes for the rest of his career because of this, and that likely occurred to him within milliseconds of being hit. Popping WS in the throat and making him choke may have felt good in the moment, but I'd wager that CR quickly realized that he could mint this bitch slap for the rest of his career.
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I was on vacation last night and just saw this now.
Haven't read the whole thread, but I support Will for doing it. He alluded to it in his speech that actors are supposed to sit there and take it from a comedian/host at awards shows and laugh along, even if it hits a sore spot. Good for him for taking a stand when he felt that it crossed a line. Maybe it will take some of the more tawdry humor out of the awards season and bring it back to more respectful humor.
Post less please.
No thank you, and I understand that I hold an unpopular opinion about this. Yes, he could have opted to sit in his seat and take it. Yes, there are non-violent solutions. But I'm of the thought that these award shows have gone too far with certain types of jokes. The Oscars are not the Golden Globes, where these jokes are expected and the atmosphere is looser, and even then, I don't agree with the absolute roasting of celebrities where the room becomes uncomfortable. I don't remember Oscar hosts like Billy Crystal taking things that far back when I was a kid. You can joke about a movie's box office performance, you can joke about the plot, but you don't just don't joke about someone's appearance.
I think Will had a point in that it can be unfair to these actors that are expected to take a pounding time and time again from award show hosts. And I have also seen my nephew deal with relentless bullying at his school. My brother and sister in law took every single non-violent path they could - talk to the teacher, talk to the school principal, talk to their son and tell him to turn around and walk away, talk to the other parents. Talk, talk talk. But nobody listened. Nobody did anything to stop the behavior. You know what their final answer was to their son?
Stand up for yourself. If these people still torment you after we've tried so hard to talk out different solutions, then get physical with your bully and show him that you're not going to take it anymore.
Now, I don't know Will Smith and Chris Rock's history, but I do see some of the tormenting that Smith's family has taken from the media and fans - about their unorthodox marriage, about their personal lives. They talk about it plenty as well. Maybe it was time for Will to take a stand - he just chose a moment when millions are watching to do it in the heat of the moment and when he was likely to be celebrated.
Bottom line for me - take the nasty jokes out of the award shows and go back to celebrating these people, not expecting them to be subjected to ridicule because that's what viewers want. Just because they're millionaires doesn't mean that they need to be the butt of every joke for our entertainment.
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Stand up for yourself, yes. However Smith makes himself look like a total dick and there were better ways to stand up for himself and his wife without walking up and hitting the guy. That's just fucking psycho.
Condoning violence is just ridiculous.
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It could only be a work if both of them had something to gain.
NO ONE gained anything.
Oh yes they did. Jada's show is going to get a nice boost and Chris rock is getting a lot of love. People are more likely to tune in next year. There is no such thing as bad publicity, EVERYONE is talking about that and that is a win even for Will Smith who came out looking the worst, but seemed to be having a great time afterwards.
That's not the kind of publicity that stars on WS or CR's level look for. This is some third-rate Dancing With The Stars-level bullshit.
It is some low level BS, but it is Hollywood. As I mentioned in another post, I'm not going to die on this argument. It can be completely real and I could be totally off base here. My gut just tells me this is Hollywood being Hollywood though.
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Grappler, if the teachers were telling some students to bully particular students, then maybe your point would have made sense, but since the awards show hosts are merely repeating jokes that were likely written for them, a key element you conveniently ignored, your point lost all credibility.
Besides, these Hollywood nimrods know what they signed up for. They go in knowing that jokes will be told at their expense. Did Leo get all upset and punch Amy Schumer for her joke which clearly made fun of him always dating young females? Nope.
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So Chris Rock isn't at fault, because someone else wrote a joke for him to say that insulted someone? Since when is that a defense? "He said that I could do it!" He chose to make the joke, whether he wrote it, or someone else did. It was approved by all involved, which also says something about how these award shows are scripted. That it's ok to say something mean and then hand them a trophy. It's not being billed as a roast, where people are expected to be the butt of the joke, but that's what it's essentially become.
I dislike the way that these jokes have trended over the last 10-15 years, and I must not be the only one, given Will's actions. Just because they were paid handsomely for their work and that "they know what they signed up for" doesn't make it right. You can host an awards show without insulting the people that you are giving awards to, or their spouses. My point stands - if you're going to make a joke, you poke fun at the films, not the people. Maybe Leo can take a joke better than Will, but that doesn't mean that the overall way of telling jokes at these shows is acceptable.
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Making a G.I. Jane joke about a bald woman is taking jokes too far? He wasn't vulgar, profane, inciting violence or hatred. It was a reference to a film with a bald woman as the lead. Jeeze Louise, the sensitivity.
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Even if it was approved, does that mean Chris Rock didn't even write the joke? Or did they just approve of his joke. I don't think the joke was too bad in the context of a stand up comedy show. I'm not familiar enough with an Oscars show to know if that was completely misplaced. (kind of seems to be, but what do I know... they approved it though)
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Stand up for yourself, yes. However Smith makes himself look like a total dick and there were better ways to stand up for himself and his wife without walking up and hitting the guy. That's just fucking psycho.
Condoning violence is just ridiculous.
Yep... Totally agree. The proper and mature way, while really slamming Rock, would've been for Smith to call him out for it in his acceptance speech.. "hey Chris, don't talk about my wife like that again or we gonna have problems" or something like that. Non violent, look like the protector, and not flush your career down the toilet.
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Stand up for yourself, yes. However Smith makes himself look like a total dick and there were better ways to stand up for himself and his wife without walking up and hitting the guy. That's just fucking psycho.
Condoning violence is just ridiculous.
Yep... Totally agree. The proper and mature way, while really slamming Rock, would've been for Smith to call him out for it in his acceptance speech.. "hey Chris, don't talk about my wife like that again or we gonna have problems" or something like that. Non violent, look like the protector, and not flush your career down the toilet.
He would have come out the winner doing it that way for sure.
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So Chris Rock isn't at fault, because someone else wrote a joke for him to say that insulted someone? Since when is that a defense? "He said that I could do it!" He chose to make the joke, whether he wrote it, or someone else did. It was approved by all involved, which also says something about how these award shows are scripted. That it's ok to say something mean and then hand them a trophy. It's not being billed as a roast, where people are expected to be the butt of the joke, but that's what it's essentially become.
I dislike the way that these jokes have trended over the last 10-15 years, and I must not be the only one, given Will's actions. Just because they were paid handsomely for their work and that "they know what they signed up for" doesn't make it right. You can host an awards show without insulting the people that you are giving awards to, or their spouses. My point stands - if you're going to make a joke, you poke fun at the films, not the people. Maybe Leo can take a joke better than Will, but that doesn't mean that the overall way of telling jokes at these shows is acceptable.
That has nothing to do with what anybody here is saying. Whether Chris Rock was "at fault" or not isn't the issue. The issue is whether Smith crossed the line in responding with violence. And the only correct answer is yes.
As far as whether the "humor" has gone too far, I don't disagree with you. But that is largely irrelevant to this situation.
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Stand up for yourself, yes. However Smith makes himself look like a total dick and there were better ways to stand up for himself and his wife without walking up and hitting the guy. That's just fucking psycho.
Condoning violence is just ridiculous.
Yep... Totally agree. The proper and mature way, while really slamming Rock, would've been for Smith to call him out for it in his acceptance speech.. "hey Chris, don't talk about my wife like that again or we gonna have problems" or something like that. Non violent, look like the protector, and not flush your career down the toilet.
He would have come out the winner doing it that way for sure.
Yep, and it would've been emotionally mature... Which he obviously still struggles with.
Anyways... For this peasant, it's been totally worth it, haven't seen this high caliber a meme day since the Bernie mittens one.
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That has nothing to do with what anybody here is saying. Whether Chris Rock was "at fault" or not isn't the issue. The issue is whether Smith crossed the line in responding with violence. And the only correct answer is yes.
As far as whether the "humor" has gone too far, I don't disagree with you. But that is largely irrelevant to this situation.
Actually, the humor is 100% relevant. Will even said so in his acceptance speech - see what I underlined below. He's sick and tired of pretending that it's ok to be the butt of someone's joke.
Now I know, to do what we do, you've got to be able to take abuse. You got to be able to have people talk crazy about you. In this business, you've got to be able to have people disrespecting you, and you've got to smile and you've got to pretend like that's OK.
I agree with the other posters that he could have taken a better, more eloquent route. He'd be the better man, for sure. But I won't condemn him for saying "enough is enough." I think it's great that someone finally hauled off on one of these hosts for the bullshit jokes. I've made my points and I don't need to talk in circles, since I'm in the complete minority here, so I won't be responding further.
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Then he should have had a sit down with Rock privately asking him to stop. Not let it bubble up for 2 years when in your biggest moment, you crack.
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Violence in all of its forms is poisonous and destructive. My behavior at last night’s Academy Awards was unacceptable and inexcusable. Jokes at my expense are a part of the job, but a joke about Jada’s medical condition was too much for me to bear and I reacted emotionally.
I would like to publicly apologize to you, Chris. I was out of line and I was wrong. I am embarrassed and my actions were not indicative of the man I want to be. There is no place for violence in a world of love and kindness.
I would also like to apologize to the Academy, the producers of the show, all the attendees and everyone watching around the world. I would like to apologize to the Williams Family and my King Richard Family. I deeply regret that my behavior has stained what has been an otherwise gorgeous journey for all of us.
I am a work in progress.
Sincerely,
Will
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Then he should have had a sit down with Rock privately asking him to stop. Not let it bubble up for 2 years when in your biggest moment, you crack.
Seriously... I mean, without escalating the actual amount of violence dispensed, I can't think of a worse way he could've handled it.
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Who knows if Smith wrote that apology or not, but saying the joke was about Jada's medical condition is misleading, as the joke was about her having no hair. And if you think about it, the joke was not even hurtful since G.I. Jane was a bad ass (IIRC, as I have not see the film in a long time). Ultimately, it is obvious that Smith only reacted the way he did because Jada didn't like it, as he laughed at the joke initially.
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It still just baffles me how he went from casually laughing at the joke to 'I need to smack the shit out of him in front of the biggest audience" in literally two seconds.
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Violence in all of its forms is poisonous and destructive. My behavior at last night’s Academy Awards was unacceptable and inexcusable. Jokes at my expense are a part of the job, but a joke about Jada’s medical condition was too much for me to bear and I reacted emotionally.
I would like to publicly apologize to you, Chris. I was out of line and I was wrong. I am embarrassed and my actions were not indicative of the man I want to be. There is no place for violence in a world of love and kindness.
I would also like to apologize to the Academy, the producers of the show, all the attendees and everyone watching around the world. I would like to apologize to the Williams Family and my King Richard Family. I deeply regret that my behavior has stained what has been an otherwise gorgeous journey for all of us.
I am a work in progress.
Sincerely,
Will
I was hoping for this.
We can speculate and nitpick til the cows come home. But at the end of the day, Will had to make decision. “Am I going to step up and apologize for my behavior, or double down on the defending my family angle.”
I don’t care if someone wrote it for him…in the end, once he signs off on it, it becomes his words. He chose to apologize. So as far as I’m concerned, he did the right thing.
Maybe he should have been escorted out? Maybe not? Maybe he should have been charged? Maybe not?
But this is the end of it. The *media* will drag it on forever. But it actually ends here.
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It still just baffles me how he went from casually laughing at the joke to 'I need to smack the shit out of him in front of the biggest audience" in literally two seconds.
I explained this earlier, but I think it was totally natural given the situation. There’s a 2-3 second lag of reaction in real time. That’s the time it sometimes takes for the reality of something you weren’t expecting to set in. Happens all the time.
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It still just baffles me how he went from casually laughing at the joke to 'I need to smack the shit out of him in front of the biggest audience" in literally two seconds.
I explained this earlier, but I think it was totally natural given the situation. There’s a 2-3 second lag of reaction in real time. That’s the time it sometimes takes for the reality of something you weren’t expecting to set in. Happens all the time.
Different mindsets... Never in my adult life have I gotten so offended or protective that i got aggressive or physical, and I was not a stable person for most of those years. Violence is just not an option for me.
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It still just baffles me how he went from casually laughing at the joke to 'I need to smack the shit out of him in front of the biggest audience" in literally two seconds.
I explained this earlier, but I think it was totally natural given the situation. There’s a 2-3 second lag of reaction in real time. That’s the time it sometimes takes for the reality of something you weren’t expecting to set in. Happens all the time.
Different mindsets... Never in my adult life have I gotten so offended or protective that i got aggressive or physical, and I was not a stable person for most of those years. Violence is just not an option for me.
I wasn’t talking about him resorting to violence. On that we agree. I thought you were speaking of the delayed reaction.
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An interesting sidenote to this is the story Will Smith told a few months back about his father hitting his mother when he was 9 and him always regretting not doing anything about it. He apparently referred to his dad as "daddy-o," which stood out to me because I remember the Fresh Prince episode when his real father came back, and then at the end of the episode when they were supposed to go away on a trip, his dad bailed on him with some lame excuse, and in the scene Will referred to him as "daddy-o" (he called him that when the dad was going to leave without telling him, as he tried to pawn it off on Uncle Phil to do, but Will entered the room before the dad could exit). Not sure where I was going with that, but it made me wonder if the "daddy-o" line was in the original script or if Smith improvised that and called them as a callback to his real father who was also a massive disappointment.
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You never hit someone in response to a joke. Good God.
Dunno about that. Racism, Sexism, Homophobia etc isn't suddenly more tolerable if it has a punchline. Lot of people hide behind 'I was only having a laugh', 'It's only banter'.
Not comparing what happened last night to that, just responding to your blanket statement.
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You never hit someone in response to a joke. Good God.
Dunno about that. Racism, Sexism, Homophobia etc isn't suddenly more tolerable if it has a punchline. Lot of people hide behind 'I was only having a laugh', 'It's only banter'.
Not comparing what happened last night to that, just responding to your blanket statement.
You don't assault someone over a joke. If someone brings racism into the mix it turns into something more than just telling an off color joke and that's when intent and context comes in. But as a principle, let me rephrase, no, I don't think you ever physically hit someone over a joke when a comedian is on stage doing his job. This is an awful precedent for the future. This just emboldens people who already think it's fine to start shit with comics on and off the stage.
And, honestly? Even if someone hides behind the joke defense, you still don't hit them. Be a bigger person.
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I didn't read everything that happened here, so this may have been addressed, but Grappler, if he'd slapped Wanda Sykes for making this joke, you'd be cool with it then, right?
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I still don't understand why people are framing this as Chris making fun of a neurological disease, which is like the worst framing you could give to this "joke". And where I live a whole lot of people online seem genuinely really offended because he was making fun of a disease. I wonder if they are just repeating other people or if they actually listened to the quote.
Balding men also have a medical condition. Different pattern and underlying mechanism, sure, but the same outcome. Who decided balding is worse for what gender? Or is a man with alopecia areata a no go and a man with alocepia androgenetica a go?
I have been clean shaven for several years now, should I slap someone every time I get called Mr clean, Johnny Sins or whatever random bald guy is in the minds of people? And to be honest, I view none of those references as making fun of me. Nor do I think referencing the looks of GI Jane is really making fun of someone. More like "yo your current look looks like that attractive badass from that one film".
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It still just baffles me how he went from casually laughing at the joke to 'I need to smack the shit out of him in front of the biggest audience" in literally two seconds.
I'm assuming you've been to alive comedy show before? Laughter is infectious. I've laughed at jokes at a live comedy show, that in retrospect were not funny. After laughing at several jokes in a row, it's almost like your body is ready to laugh no matter what. Especially when hearing hundreds of people around you also laughing. I can totally understand how he would have started laughing, then realized what the joke meant, and gotten offended. I can also understand that Will would be very sensitive about it after hearing Jada's concerns, insecurities, worries, etc about her condition. I'm sure it was a large source of stress for their life. None of that excuse what he did, but I understand his reaction.
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I was on vacation last night and just saw this now.
Haven't read the whole thread, but I support Will for doing it. He alluded to it in his speech that actors are supposed to sit there and take it from a comedian/host at awards shows and laugh along, even if it hits a sore spot. Good for him for taking a stand when he felt that it crossed a line. Maybe it will take some of the more tawdry humor out of the awards season and bring it back to more respectful humor.
Post less please.
No thank you, and I understand that I hold an unpopular opinion about this. Yes, he could have opted to sit in his seat and take it. Yes, there are non-violent solutions. But I'm of the thought that these award shows have gone too far with certain types of jokes. The Oscars are not the Golden Globes, where these jokes are expected and the atmosphere is looser, and even then, I don't agree with the absolute roasting of celebrities where the room becomes uncomfortable. I don't remember Oscar hosts like Billy Crystal taking things that far back when I was a kid. You can joke about a movie's box office performance, you can joke about the plot, but you don't just don't joke about someone's appearance.
I think Will had a point in that it can be unfair to these actors that are expected to take a pounding time and time again from award show hosts. And I have also seen my nephew deal with relentless bullying at his school. My brother and sister in law took every single non-violent path they could - talk to the teacher, talk to the school principal, talk to their son and tell him to turn around and walk away, talk to the other parents. Talk, talk talk. But nobody listened. Nobody did anything to stop the behavior. You know what their final answer was to their son?
Stand up for yourself. If these people still torment you after we've tried so hard to talk out different solutions, then get physical with your bully and show him that you're not going to take it anymore.
Now, I don't know Will Smith and Chris Rock's history, but I do see some of the tormenting that Smith's family has taken from the media and fans - about their unorthodox marriage, about their personal lives. They talk about it plenty as well. Maybe it was time for Will to take a stand - he just chose a moment when millions are watching to do it in the heat of the moment and when he was likely to be celebrated.
Bottom line for me - take the nasty jokes out of the award shows and go back to celebrating these people, not expecting them to be subjected to ridicule because that's what viewers want. Just because they're millionaires doesn't mean that they need to be the butt of every joke for our entertainment.
So where do we draw the line? Wasn't Jan 6th, essentially "standing up for oneself"? Isn't every school shooting essentially "standing up for oneself"? Certainly, every police shooting is "standing up for oneself". Since we've now obliterated the line at which assault starts, who gets to decide what's just and what's not?
Personally, I think we've gone soft with this notion that everyone HAS to treat us with kid gloves. I cannot be offended! I'm short, I'm not as slim as I'd like to be. You know what? Go for it. If your defining image of me is "short", I'm not going to stop you. All my wit, wisdom, charm, and accomplishments aren't going to change that. I can either be Napoleon and go around the world punching people in the face, or I can do the hard work and come to grips with it. I get that it's not easy for everyone, I get that it's not a perfect solution, but I'd MUCH rather promote the idea that we tend our own garden, that we make ourselves strong than we go around trying to slap the world into "loving us" to our satisfaction.
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I think he saw the look on her face and Jada was really upset with the joke prompting Will to have poor judgement.
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That has nothing to do with what anybody here is saying. Whether Chris Rock was "at fault" or not isn't the issue. The issue is whether Smith crossed the line in responding with violence. And the only correct answer is yes.
As far as whether the "humor" has gone too far, I don't disagree with you. But that is largely irrelevant to this situation.
Actually, the humor is 100% relevant. Will even said so in his acceptance speech - see what I underlined below. He's sick and tired of pretending that it's ok to be the butt of someone's joke.
See, I see this part differently. I don't see this as your call. If someone wants to joke about something, that's on them and whether the joke kills or falls flat, so be it. I don't get this idea that we somehow have "control" over how others see us or take us or deal with us. It's baffling to me.
I don't even agree that "Keep joking about my wife and we'll have an issue" is the right answer; that's still a threat of violence. What, kicking the shit out of Chris Rock in the parking lot is better than slapping him on stage? Why not address the issue at the root: "Honey, this isn't something you planned, this is something you have to deal with; if Chris Rock is inconsiderate or rude or hurtful to you, does that change how much we love each other, or your children love you?" Why this need to "change the world" to your liking?
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If you don't know the jokes are coming from host and presenters, you are fooling yourself. Secondly, if it was a problem, why not talk in private to Rock on the situation? Like adults.
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If you don't know the jokes are coming from host and presenters, you are fooling yourself. Secondly, if it was a problem, why not talk in private to Rock on the situation? Like adults.
Right? And take it somewhere off campus to de-escalate the vibe. Go to a nice professional manor and discuss it like grownups.
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If you don't know the jokes are coming from host and presenters, you are fooling yourself. Secondly, if it was a problem, why not talk in private to Rock on the situation? Like adults.
Right? And take it somewhere off campus to de-escalate the vibe. Go to a nice professional manor and discuss it like grownups.
Exactly.. Again it baffles me how he went from lol to 'gonna fuck this guy up' in a flash. Maybe from lol to'I need to give him a talking to' or 'let me light him up in my acceptance speech' would be normal-is. If it's not all a fake, and it's seeming so more and more, Will has some serious, deep set anger that he has absolutely no clue how to deal with, and we all saw his lack on full display.
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I'm curious how this would've gone if it was Wanda Sykes that made this joke.
She would have found a way to make it even less funny.
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:lol
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It's interesting that Denzel Washington warned Will Smith saying something to the degree of " be careful, when you're at your highest point, that's when the devil will show up".
It looks like he may have been onto something..
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That was a cute defense by Smith - "the devil made me do it!!" :lol :lol - but, no, Will, you did it. No one made you do it. You chose to go up on stage and assault Chris Rock. I get his anger, but there are 101 ways he could have handled it and he chose the 99th best one.
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I think what Denzel meant, is that the devil can tempt you or put a situation in front of you that can potentially lead to a bad decision. The devil can't make you do anything, but he can agg it on or taunt you. Whether it be literally or figuratively..
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I had to give in and see it as well.
Well, as tasteless Chris Rock's joke was, he handed it like a pro, he got smacked with the "whole world" watching and he kept his cool, tried to play it down, and didn't escalate any further. It takes nerves of steel to keep going.
Also, like I read on a YouTube comment... congratulations to Will Smith for having immortalized a joke that everyone would have forgotten 20 seconds after it was said. People now will remember the blow, and the reason behind it.
In five years time.... "man do you remember when Will Smith smacked Chris Rock because he made fun of his wife's alopecia?"
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Jim Carrey's thoughts on this are spot on, in my opinion. His comments start at 3:55 or so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydbJ1LMLag0
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Jim Carrey's thoughts on this are spot on, in my opinion. His comments start at 3:55 or so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydbJ1LMLag0
Agreed, but something tells me Carrey wouldn't be publicly saying this if he was still an A-lister in his prime. I suspect the jury is still out on how this will really affect Smith's career, which is why almost no one from Hollywood who is still arguably in their box office prime is coming out in defense of or criticizing Smith. You don't want to defend him and then his career tanks and you look like the fool who had his back, and you don't want to criticize him and then his career is just fine and you are the idiot who is then blacklisted for not having his back. Carrey has very little to lose by saying what he said because his Hollywood career is all but done anyway.
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So.... we're all convinced that was a tasteless joke, are we? As with most things that "offend", it CAN be taken in two ways. Crass marking of someone's affliction, or subtle shout-out that will make people laugh but with affection (The original GI Jane - Demi Moore - was a strong, powerful, beautiful woman who embraced her baldness)? As almost always happens in these situations, since we all know what other people are thinking, a narrative forms, and it gets adhered to, whether it comports with the ACTUAL truth (which only Rock REALLY knows) or not.
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Good essay on Will's use of God in his "defense" of his actions...
https://onlysky.media/hemant-mehta/will-smiths-apology-at-the-oscars-was-a-faith-based-defense-of-bad-behavior/ (https://onlysky.media/hemant-mehta/will-smiths-apology-at-the-oscars-was-a-faith-based-defense-of-bad-behavior/)
"If he really wanted to follow God’s example, he could easily have turned the other cheek, but that never seems to be in the toolbox for thin-skinned believers, does it?"
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Jim Carrey's thoughts on this are spot on, in my opinion. His comments start at 3:55 or so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydbJ1LMLag0
Agreed, but something tells me Carrey wouldn't be publicly saying this if he was still an A-lister in his prime. I suspect the jury is still out on how this will really affect Smith's career, which is why almost no one from Hollywood who is still arguably in their box office prime is coming out in defense of or criticizing Smith. You don't want to defend him and then his career tanks and you look like the fool who had his back, and you don't want to criticize him and then his career is just fine and you are the idiot who is then blacklisted for not having his back. Carrey has very little to lose by saying what he said because his Hollywood career is all but done anyway.
Wasn’t that Carrey’s point though? Hollywood thinking they’re above and beyond what happened?
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Jim Carrey's thoughts on this are spot on, in my opinion. His comments start at 3:55 or so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydbJ1LMLag0
Agreed, but something tells me Carrey wouldn't be publicly saying this if he was still an A-lister in his prime. I suspect the jury is still out on how this will really affect Smith's career, which is why almost no one from Hollywood who is still arguably in their box office prime is coming out in defense of or criticizing Smith. You don't want to defend him and then his career tanks and you look like the fool who had his back, and you don't want to criticize him and then his career is just fine and you are the idiot who is then blacklisted for not having his back. Carrey has very little to lose by saying what he said because his Hollywood career is all but done anyway.
I agree Kev 100%.
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So.... we're all convinced that was a tasteless joke, are we? As with most things that "offend", it CAN be taken in two ways. Crass marking of someone's affliction, or subtle shout-out that will make people laugh but with affection (The original GI Jane - Demi Moore - was a strong, powerful, beautiful woman who embraced her baldness)? As almost always happens in these situations, since we all know what other people are thinking, a narrative forms, and it gets adhered to, whether it comports with the ACTUAL truth (which only Rock REALLY knows) or not.
This. Obviously, this was a topic of convo at work the past couple of days, but I was shocked by how unanimous the opinion was that Rock said what he said out of malice. I made the point that there exists the possibility that he was simply trying to make an 'off the cuff' joke, and Jada's short hair connected some dots in his brain and led to the joke, and virtually everyone was like, "nooooo, he knew what he was saying, and it was a dig at her condition."
Honestly, only Rock knows the truth, but I'm always surprised by how people are so quick to default to 'malicious intent' when attempting to deduce motivations from afar.
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So.... we're all convinced that was a tasteless joke, are we? As with most things that "offend", it CAN be taken in two ways. Crass marking of someone's affliction, or subtle shout-out that will make people laugh but with affection (The original GI Jane - Demi Moore - was a strong, powerful, beautiful woman who embraced her baldness)? As almost always happens in these situations, since we all know what other people are thinking, a narrative forms, and it gets adhered to, whether it comports with the ACTUAL truth (which only Rock REALLY knows) or not.
This. Obviously, this was a topic of convo at work the past couple of days, but I was shocked by how unanimous the opinion was that Rock said what he said out of malice. I made the point that there exists the possibility that he was simply trying to make an 'off the cuff' joke, and Jada's short hair connected some dots in his brain and led to the joke, and virtually everyone was like, "nooooo, he knew what he was saying, and it was a dig at her condition."
Honestly, only Rock knows the truth, but I'm always surprised by how people are so quick to default to 'malicious intent' when attempting to deduce motivations from afar.
I don't know if you spend much (if any) time in P/R, but I write about this a lot. We - America - are an EXCEEDINGLY insecure nation. We constantly seek affirmation (social media) and we are very quick to find offense or affront. It's across the board; race, religion, dress... start to notice how many news stories of "social events" are tied to that insecurity. In this day and age of fast-moving data, it's too easy to be left behind, and our identity, such that WE define it, becomes all we have. Then to have someone disparage that identity - be it our sexuality, the music we like, the clothes we wear, the tattoos we choose - it becomes something that has to be defended. Couple that with the inherent American trait of having to "FIGHT" - our very nation is rooted in that - it becomes an untenable situation. We are NOT a "turn the other cheek" nation, and in fact it's deemed weakness. Our politicians are trained to sell us on their ability to "FIGHT" for us - that's Alexandria Ocasio Cortez's entire schtick, and she's by far not the only one on either side of the aisle - and we accept that as their bona fide.
No one really picked up on it, but that's the genesis of my comment that Will Smith did what we all wish, deep down and in certain circumstances, we could and would do. But since "violence" is in conflict with our better nature, it's easier to point fingers at Chris Rock and say "you instigated this!" It lets us off the hook for owning our own insecurities and frailties.
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Wow. I just listened to Jim Carrey's take. Now, full disclosure, I'm not the hugest Jim Carrey fan; I'm not huge on that "whacky, silly" style of comedy, and I don't think I've ever seen him so serious for such a sustained amount of time. But, whether I agree with him or not (and I do, particularly the "words" part) it's telling that that is the incident that sobers his delivery.
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I don't think the joke was tasteless or malicious. It feels like many who are trying everything they can to give Smith some kind of pass are trying to play it off like Rock was making fun of Jada's condition, but, no, the joke was about her lack of hair. Had he said, "Damn, Jada, that alopecia is really giving you that G.I. Jane look," then, yeah, but he said nothing about her disease. The joke was about her hair, and it wasn't even an insult! G.I. Jane was a badass character from what I remember, so being the next G.I. Jane is almost a compliment, even if it was meant to be a joke.
It is also worth noting that Jada is a celeb of sorts, as I have seen some chatter that she should be off limits because she is Will Smith's wife (how sexist is that??). No, she is a celeb of sorts, has her own show where she has been very public about things in her personal live, and apparently has over a million followers on Twitter (which apparently matters). She is very much a public figure, thus fair game. Children and partners of celebs should be off limits, yes, but while she may not have the pedigree of Will Smith, she is still a celeb herself.
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So.... we're all convinced that was a tasteless joke, are we?
??? We are? I'm not getting that at all. Yeah, there are some that are saying that. And there are some that are saying the joke was a big nothing. Hardly a consensus.
For me, I'm somewhere in between. I don't see it as a big deal. Tasteless and unfunny, but not a big deal. But then again, I don't have to stand in the shoes of the person it was about, so I have no context for whether or not it may have been more hurtful to her.
I have no idea. And, like it or not, the lines are often blurry in comedy because, somewhere along the way, we decided that it's okay for comedians to get onstage and tell jokes that are "funny" because they are offensive.
All that said, it also doesn't matter to me. As Carrey said, you don't get to go up onstage and hit somebody because they said words. To me, the bottom line is that that applies regardless where the joke falls on the spectrum.
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Should be noted that my local Chris Rock show this summer is almost completely sold out now
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So.... we're all convinced that was a tasteless joke, are we?
??? We are? I'm not getting that at all. Yeah, there are some that are saying that. And there are some that are saying the joke was a big nothing. Hardly a consensus.
For me, I'm somewhere in between. I don't see it as a big deal. Tasteless and unfunny, but not a big deal. But then again, I don't have to stand in the shoes of the person it was about, so I have no context for whether or not it may have been more hurtful to her.
I have no idea. And, like it or not, the lines are often blurry in comedy because, somewhere along the way, we decided that it's okay for comedians to get onstage and tell jokes that are "funny" because they are offensive.
All that said, it also doesn't matter to me. As Carrey said, you don't get to go up onstage and hit somebody because they said words. To me, the bottom line is that that applies regardless where the joke falls on the spectrum.
(Slightly) Off topic, But the bolded is the reason I am picky with my comedy. There are a lot of stand up comedians that I hear about how funny and great their "Netflix special" or "Comedy Central special" was, and when I go watch it I end up rolling my eyes more than I laugh.
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I thought there was already a GI Jane direct to video sequel.
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You know...it would be freaking awesome if Jada wound up doing a GI Jane reboot after all of this. :laugh:
For my money, Kareem Abdul Jabbar had the best take on the incident so far.
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Regardless if the joke was tasteless or not; talking about another actor's wife in front of an audience of millions is probably not the best policy. They both were at fault and Smith much more so obviously.
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Are we forgetting just how much most women value their hair. That is a big issue specifically for some women. The same as how some men value their hair and don't enjoy being bald.
There's a reason why The Simpsons made an entire episode on Homers baldness and his Domoxinyl hair product. The lengths he went to finally have luscious hair and the gains from being a man with hair, compared to how he was perceived when he was bald.
It's a controversy because Will publicly went and slapped Will, the same controversy that Kanye did when he interrupted Taylor Swift to claim Beyonce is better than her.
It's hilarious to me and this incident shows a lot about how these controversies can spread among the people and can get everyone talking about it. Which generates buzz for those involved.
Remember as well, they are all actors and a good actor can convince people of their emotions, which may in fact not be their true emotions. A good actor can cry at will. This reason is why I don't give two shits about it at all.
I just laughed and said...."What did the hand say to the face?"....(slap).
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Are we forgetting just how much most women value their hair. That is a big issue specifically for some women. The same as how some men value their hair and don't enjoy being bald.
There's a reason why The Simpsons made an entire episode on Homers baldness and his Domoxinyl hair product. The lengths he went to finally have luscious hair and the gains from being a man with hair, compared to how he was perceived when he was bald.
It's a controversy because Will publicly went and slapped Will, the same controversy that Kanye did when he interrupted Taylor Swift to claim Beyonce is better than her.
It's hilarious to me and this incident shows a lot about how these controversies can spread among the people and can get everyone talking about it. Which generates buzz for those involved.
Remember as well, they are all actors and a good actor can convince people of their emotions, which may in fact not be their true emotions. A good actor can cry at will. This reason is why I don't give two shits about it at all.
I just laughed and said...."What did the hand say to the face?"....(slap).
Are you forgetting that Jada went on her own podcast saying that she didn't care what people thought of her bald head? She also talked publicly on he having an open marriage which obviously upset Will when he found out she had relations with her son's friend. Sometimes people put themselves in a spotlight they shouldn't do.
Rock of course joked about this (the open marriage) for the last few years. What Will and Jada should have done was reach out and ask privately to stop. If you are a celebrity like the Smiths are, I think you are very aware that you might be roasted at the Oscars. They should take a lot of the responsibility on this.
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So.... we're all convinced that was a tasteless joke, are we?
??? We are? I'm not getting that at all. Yeah, there are some that are saying that. And there are some that are saying the joke was a big nothing. Hardly a consensus.
For me, I'm somewhere in between. I don't see it as a big deal. Tasteless and unfunny, but not a big deal. But then again, I don't have to stand in the shoes of the person it was about, so I have no context for whether or not it may have been more hurtful to her.
I have no idea. And, like it or not, the lines are often blurry in comedy because, somewhere along the way, we decided that it's okay for comedians to get onstage and tell jokes that are "funny" because they are offensive.
All that said, it also doesn't matter to me. As Carrey said, you don't get to go up onstage and hit somebody because they said words. To me, the bottom line is that that applies regardless where the joke falls on the spectrum.
We're in full agreement, I think, with everything except MAYBE the timeframe of the "offensive". Don Rickles made an entire career out of insult comedy, some of it VERY pointed. Joan Rivers was never shy about going after a vulnerability, and people like Totie Fields dabbled in that as well. I think the change is not in "funny" becoming rooted in offense, but rather in our personal shifts from "tolerance" to "acceptance". We no longer deal in "you do you, and I do me, and we don't have to like it, but we're all here on this glorious planet". We now have unconsciously or not (I believe "or not") morphed to a point where tolerance is no longer acceptable, and the bare minimum is "acceptance". That's important, because that implies that all of us - comedians included - are to defer and treat each person as an eggshell plaintiff, whether we have knowledge or awareness or not. That's a very slippery slope; in fact, in my view that's an untenable unsustainable position to be in. How can we know and be accountable not just for that which we don't know, but also that which we don't even know we don't know?
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Regardless if the joke was tasteless or not; talking about another actor's wife in front of an audience of millions is probably not the best policy. They both were at fault and Smith much more so obviously.
But once we get into "best policy", we're not in a zone we can enforce anymore. Sort of independent of this particular incident, "best policy" is, arguably, truth, right? But there's no law that in interpersonal relationships I have to be truthful. To the best of my knowledge, a defense for assault and battery is not "well, he lied to me!". I'm not looking at this as "how we want people to act", but rather, how accountable we can hold OTHERS to a standard, and what that standard is.
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Should be noted that my local Chris Rock show this summer is almost completely sold out now
Would be interesting if the first thing he said in his shows were, "Wow, look how packed this crowd is today. I guess I should try getting punched in live TV more often if turns into you guys showing up."
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So.... we're all convinced that was a tasteless joke, are we?
??? We are? I'm not getting that at all. Yeah, there are some that are saying that. And there are some that are saying the joke was a big nothing. Hardly a consensus.
For me, I'm somewhere in between. I don't see it as a big deal. Tasteless and unfunny, but not a big deal. But then again, I don't have to stand in the shoes of the person it was about, so I have no context for whether or not it may have been more hurtful to her.
I have no idea. And, like it or not, the lines are often blurry in comedy because, somewhere along the way, we decided that it's okay for comedians to get onstage and tell jokes that are "funny" because they are offensive.
All that said, it also doesn't matter to me. As Carrey said, you don't get to go up onstage and hit somebody because they said words. To me, the bottom line is that that applies regardless where the joke falls on the spectrum.
We're in full agreement, I think, with everything except MAYBE the timeframe of the "offensive". Don Rickles made an entire career out of insult comedy, some of it VERY pointed. Joan Rivers was never shy about going after a vulnerability, and people like Totie Fields dabbled in that as well. I think the change is not in "funny" becoming rooted in offense, but rather in our personal shifts from "tolerance" to "acceptance". We no longer deal in "you do you, and I do me, and we don't have to like it, but we're all here on this glorious planet". We now have unconsciously or not (I believe "or not") morphed to a point where tolerance is no longer acceptable, and the bare minimum is "acceptance". That's important, because that implies that all of us - comedians included - are to defer and treat each person as an eggshell plaintiff, whether we have knowledge or awareness or not. That's a very slippery slope; in fact, in my view that's an untenable unsustainable position to be in. How can we know and be accountable not just for that which we don't know, but also that which we don't even know we don't know?
I wholeheartedly agree with you on the tolerance vs. acceptance issue. But I also think you are blending two issues together that may be related in this context, but still aren't the same. The tolerance issue is distinct from the "offensiveness" issue. And I don't really care about the timing. The fact that really old people may have engaged in the same tastelessness doesn't make it acceptable. When I said, "somewhere along the way, we decided," I wasn't necessarily implying that it is a new thing. King Solomon wrote about that very thing in the book of Proverbs (saying/doing something hurtful, and then when called on it, throwing up the "but I was only joking" defense). My point was simply that, when we decide that that is okay, we shouldn't be surprised when those chickens come home to roost.
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Are we forgetting just how much most women value their hair. That is a big issue specifically for some women. The same as how some men value their hair and don't enjoy being bald.
There's a reason why The Simpsons made an entire episode on Homers baldness and his Domoxinyl hair product. The lengths he went to finally have luscious hair and the gains from being a man with hair, compared to how he was perceived when he was bald.
It's a controversy because Will publicly went and slapped Will, the same controversy that Kanye did when he interrupted Taylor Swift to claim Beyonce is better than her.
It's hilarious to me and this incident shows a lot about how these controversies can spread among the people and can get everyone talking about it. Which generates buzz for those involved.
Remember as well, they are all actors and a good actor can convince people of their emotions, which may in fact not be their true emotions. A good actor can cry at will. This reason is why I don't give two shits about it at all.
I just laughed and said...."What did the hand say to the face?"....(slap).
Are you forgetting that Jada went on her own podcast saying that she didn't care what people thought of her bald head? She also talked publicly on he having an open marriage which obviously upset Will when he found out she had relations with her son's friend. Sometimes people put themselves in a spotlight they shouldn't do.
Rock of course joked about this (the open marriage) for the last few years. What Will and Jada should have done was reach out and ask privately to stop. If you are a celebrity like the Smiths are, I think you are very aware that you might be roasted at the Oscars. They should take a lot of the responsibility on this.
Well, that's the other side of all of this. I'm the very first person to note that we have no idea what a marriage is like unless we're living it, minute by minute, but it's fascinating to me where people (seem to) draw the line on things. They - the Smiths - were lauded by many in media for their "honesty" in dealing with the trials and tribulations of their marriage. Jada has to my understanding stepped out publicly at least once, and if she was diddling with her son's friend, it seems like TWICE; would a joke about that have been any better received?
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At least from the outside, their marriage seems tense. If you talk publicly like they did there are issues. Sort of like us norms posting our troubles on Facebook. We want attention, we want someone to agree with our stance. This always seems to backfire and in this case, it did and it bubbled over.
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Is it not up to the viewer to decide what is tasteless and what is not? What is offensive and what is not? Jimmy Carr doesn't offend me in any way... nor does he offend the vast majority of his audience because they know that a part of his show is heckle and response. It's not like Chris hasn't riffed on Will Smith in the past...
Will seems to not have a problem with other people "being" with his wife since they're in an open relationship... what does he care about this joke and Chris Rock speaking his wife's name? I'm not judging their relationship, I'm just stating what is apparently well known.
Celebs know they're going to be roasted a bit at these ceremonies... and I guarantee you that joke was signed off on by the Oscar Committee. Watching it again, Chris was in a rhythm when he got to that joke... if it was off the cuff or an adlib I'd assume that his rhythm would have been thrown off a bit. Whether he wrote it or not (seems like I remember reading somewhere that comedians, other than those presenting, write jokes for these ceremonies), it sure seemed to be part of the script for the night. As far as roasting goes, that was an lightweight joke for certain.
All this talk of Will defending Jada and his family... how would our discussions change if Chris had decided to defend himself in the same manner? Does he not have that "right"? What if Chris had decided to defend himself? I have to say personally, that I would have a hard time being physically assaulted by another man and not responding in-kind... Chris is the better man in this instance. But what if Chris wasn't the better man? How would this conversation change (not here specifically, but in general)?
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I can't believe there's been 6 pages of (mostly) serious discussion on the fact that CHRIS ROCK GOT SLAPPED! ACROSS THE FACE MY FRIEND! CHRIS ROCK GOT SLAPPED! YEAH, THAT JUST HAPPENED! EVERYBODY SAW IT! EVERYBODY LAUGHED AND CLAPPED! IT WAS AWESOME! CHRIS ROCK GOT SLAPPED!
Actually, it's DTF, I can believe it. :heart you nerds
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There's a multi- generational culture built around, "you disrespected *insert person here*" and the responses vary from slaps and slugs to stabbings and shootings, as well as various other methods of inflicting damage. The feeling among this group is that you deserve what you get if you disrespect somebody. Will's son's tweet, "that's how we do it," sums this up perfectly.
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One thing I haven't seen discussed much (especially here) is how Smith slapping Rock "because of what he said about my wife" perpetuates the (outdated) trope that a woman needs a man to defend her, or defend her honor (never mind the fact that her honor wasn't under attack). Or is that too heady for you guys?
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One thing I haven't seen discussed much (especially here) is how Smith slapping Rock "because of what he said about my wife" perpetuates the (outdated) trope that a woman needs a man to defend her, or defend her honor (never mind the fact that her honor wasn't under attack). Or is that too heady for you guys?
Wouldn't you think there was underlying issues between the 2 for Will to have the need to get up and start a fight? Even if it's perceived by one or by both. It seems like he had some kind of response to his wife being upset over the joke.
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One thing I haven't seen discussed much (especially here) is how Smith slapping Rock "because of what he said about my wife" perpetuates the (outdated) trope that a woman needs a man to defend her, or defend her honor (never mind the fact that her honor wasn't under attack). Or is that too heady for you guys?
Just talking about this with my wife. She said, it would have been much more appropriate (and much cooler), if Jada had slapped him. :lol Speaking for my own marriage (which is the only one I can speak for), I'd let my wife handle the response to that type of situation. I'd only be involved if physically necessary. Her claws verbally would be sharper than mine... and I suspect the same for Jada. She could have easily taken CR down a few notches verbally with the platform she has socially.
I'm still missing the point regarding the need to respond to mere words with physical action. Is the egg shell of ego so frail, for someone who has basically everything a person could want (in a carnal sense) or the means to obtain it, that the need for physical escalation exits for a slight vocal jab?
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I think you're forgetting that Rock has joked about them the last few years with them going public about their open marriage. It's probably bothered them for some time. Which is why they should have reached out to talk to him about it instead of bubbling to this.
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Are we forgetting just how much most women value their hair. That is a big issue specifically for some women. The same as how some men value their hair and don't enjoy being bald.
There's a reason why The Simpsons made an entire episode on Homers baldness and his Domoxinyl hair product. The lengths he went to finally have luscious hair and the gains from being a man with hair, compared to how he was perceived when he was bald.
It's a controversy because Will publicly went and slapped Will, the same controversy that Kanye did when he interrupted Taylor Swift to claim Beyonce is better than her.
It's hilarious to me and this incident shows a lot about how these controversies can spread among the people and can get everyone talking about it. Which generates buzz for those involved.
Remember as well, they are all actors and a good actor can convince people of their emotions, which may in fact not be their true emotions. A good actor can cry at will. This reason is why I don't give two shits about it at all.
I just laughed and said...."What did the hand say to the face?"....(slap).
Are you forgetting that Jada went on her own podcast saying that she didn't care what people thought of her bald head? She also talked publicly on he having an open marriage which obviously upset Will when he found out she had relations with her son's friend. Sometimes people put themselves in a spotlight they shouldn't do.
Rock of course joked about this (the open marriage) for the last few years. What Will and Jada should have done was reach out and ask privately to stop. If you are a celebrity like the Smiths are, I think you are very aware that you might be roasted at the Oscars. They should take a lot of the responsibility on this.
I don't pay attention. But that's even more hilarious to me knowing that information.
They're both adults and should know and understand the Oscars. I am more amazed how these jokes supposedly get approved by a committee and that was allowed. If Will should've slapped anyone, it should also be the committee who allowed that joke to be told.
But also, that's why Denzel told Will what he told him. Because the devil does things to draw out the detrimental actions that can cause controversy.
Which I relate to meaning he could've had some great publicity and acknowledgement for his Oscar win, but since he chose to act upon the situation the way he did, everyone is talking about that rather than receiving acknowledgement for his Oscar win. Actions are what determine the kind of outcome you will receive.
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One thing I haven't seen discussed much (especially here) is how Smith slapping Rock "because of what he said about my wife" perpetuates the (outdated) trope that a woman needs a man to defend her, or defend her honor (never mind the fact that her honor wasn't under attack). Or is that too heady for you guys?
Wouldn't you think there was underlying issues between the 2 for Will to have the need to get up and start a fight? Even if it's perceived by one or by both. It seems like he had some kind of response to his wife being upset over the joke.
Oh, I'm with you there. The first thing my wife (who is somewhat of a badass) said to me was, "don't you ever do that to me." Translation: "I can take care of myself, thank you very much"
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One thing I haven't seen discussed much (especially here) is how Smith slapping Rock "because of what he said about my wife" perpetuates the (outdated) trope that a woman needs a man to defend her, or defend her honor (never mind the fact that her honor wasn't under attack). Or is that too heady for you guys?
Wouldn't you think there was underlying issues between the 2 for Will to have the need to get up and start a fight? Even if it's perceived by one or by both. It seems like he had some kind of response to his wife being upset over the joke.
Oh, I'm with you there. The first thing my wife (who is somewhat of a badass) said to me was, "don't you ever do that to me." Translation: "I can take care of myself, thank you very much"
My wife is going through the change. I'm safer by sitting there quietly. :lol
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I think you're forgetting that Rock has joked about them the last few years with them going public about their open marriage. It's probably bothered them for some time. Which is why they should have reached out to talk to him about it instead of bubbling to this.
I understand that there are likely all kinds of undercurrents running between Will & Chris... however, I would think that if you are going to go public with something like an open marriage, that you would be prepared for ridicule from some persons (especially comedians). If the open marriage is a touchy enough subject to boil-over into this mess (other things compounding it), then why go public at all? Were they not thinking about the ramifications of letting the world know something so private?
Will should have confronted Chris about this privately for certain... he just decided to make it public in a moment when his guard was down. We all make mistakes and I understand that as I've made plenty myself, but I just can't get to physical contact from words no matter how compounded.
Maybe I'm seeing this in light of my own career and things that have happened... you guys wouldn't believe some of the things that have been said to me and to my wife by clients, Sellers, Realtors, etc. Or maybe you would. It's just how things are now.
Again, how would this discussing change if Chris had defended himself?
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How can you be touchy about an open marriage? I mean, that doesn't even make sense. :lol
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How can you be touchy about an open marriage? I mean, that doesn't even make sense. :lol
How would you feel if your wife banged one of your son's friends which Jada did?
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Regardless if the joke was tasteless or not; talking about another actor's wife in front of an audience of millions is probably not the best policy. They both were at fault and Smith much more so obviously.
But once we get into "best policy", we're not in a zone we can enforce anymore. Sort of independent of this particular incident, "best policy" is, arguably, truth, right? But there's no law that in interpersonal relationships I have to be truthful. To the best of my knowledge, a defense for assault and battery is not "well, he lied to me!". I'm not looking at this as "how we want people to act", but rather, how accountable we can hold OTHERS to a standard, and what that standard is.
You know what Stads? Not every comment deserves a debate or argument. By "best policy", I meant best judgement (you know like honesty). Chris Rock of all people should know that sometimes in comedy you have to generalize and not drop names. Especially when it's not your own comedy show. The only thing in this case that can be enforced is assault. Now, if you're talking about introducing "accountability" for those in high places, that's something entirely different. That wasn't my point.
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How can you be touchy about an open marriage? I mean, that doesn't even make sense. :lol
How would you feel if your wife banged one of your son's friends which Jada did?
But an open marriage is an open marriage. If I agree to that, then it is what it is. I mean, is there a list of approved hookups for her?
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How can you be touchy about an open marriage? I mean, that doesn't even make sense. :lol
How would you feel if your wife banged one of your son's friends which Jada did?
But an open marriage is an open marriage. If I agree to that, then it is what it is. I mean, is there a list of approved hookups for her?
I'd assume that this pick of a partner stung him. Or maybe that she just announced it publicly that upset him.
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Well, he's still married to her, so I guess it didn't hurt him enough.
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How can you be touchy about an open marriage? I mean, that doesn't even make sense. :lol
Exactly :lol
Well, he's still married to her, so I guess it didn't hurt him enough.
Again, exactly.
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I can't believe there's been 6 pages of (mostly) serious discussion on the fact that CHRIS ROCK GOT SLAPPED! ACROSS THE FACE MY FRIEND! CHRIS ROCK GOT SLAPPED! YEAH, THAT JUST HAPPENED! EVERYBODY SAW IT! EVERYBODY LAUGHED AND CLAPPED! IT WAS AWESOME! CHRIS ROCK GOT SLAPPED!
Actually, it's DTF, I can believe it. :heart you nerds
Would this have happened if Kevin Moore stayed in Dream Theater?
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Well, he's still married to her, so I guess it didn't hurt him enough.
I guess crying on TV about the relationship and seeing him slap another man live is showing he's ok. :lol
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Well, he's still married to her, so I guess it didn't hurt him enough.
I guess crying on TV about the relationship and seeing him slap another man live is showing he's ok. :lol
Well, I never said he was OK. I just said he wasn't hurt enough.
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I think you're forgetting that Rock has joked about them the last few years with them going public about their open marriage.
This is not true. Lots of people have made jokes about that over the last couple of years, but Chris Rock was not one of them.
Back in 2016, he made a joke about Jada, but it had nothing to do with that. Jada was one of several black celebrities who announced they would boycott the Oscars over lack of black representation amongst nominees. Rock said "Jada boycotting the Oscars is like me boycotting Rihanna’s panties. I wasn’t invited!”
That is the extent of Chris Rock's joking about the Smiths, as far as I can find.
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I think you're forgetting that Rock has joked about them the last few years with them going public about their open marriage.
This is not true. Lots of people have made jokes about that over the last couple of years, but Chris Rock was not one of them.
Back in 2016, he made a joke about Jada, but it had nothing to do with that. Jada was one of several black celebrities who announced they would boycott the Oscars over lack of black representation amongst nominees. Rock said "Jada boycotting the Oscars is like me boycotting Rihanna’s panties. I wasn’t invited!”
That is the extent of Chris Rock's joking about the Smiths, as far as I can find.
https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/will-smith-chris-rock-oscars-feud-explainer/
A bit of joking and a little bit of a beef between Chris and Will.
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I think you're forgetting that Rock has joked about them the last few years with them going public about their open marriage.
This is not true. Lots of people have made jokes about that over the last couple of years, but Chris Rock was not one of them.
Back in 2016, he made a joke about Jada, but it had nothing to do with that. Jada was one of several black celebrities who announced they would boycott the Oscars over lack of black representation amongst nominees. Rock said "Jada boycotting the Oscars is like me boycotting Rihanna’s panties. I wasn’t invited!”
That is the extent of Chris Rock's joking about the Smiths, as far as I can find.
https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/will-smith-chris-rock-oscars-feud-explainer/
A bit of joking and a little bit of a beef between Chris and Will.
A lot of conjecture, really. Most of that is not real "beef" between them.
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There's a multi- generational culture built around, "you disrespected *insert person here*" and the responses vary from slaps and slugs to stabbings and shootings, as well as various other methods of inflicting damage. The feeling among this group is that you deserve what you get if you disrespect somebody. Will's son's tweet, "that's how we do it," sums this up perfectly.
I don't use that terminology, much, but that's at the essence of my thoughts about "insecurity". What is "disrespect", in that sense, other than my ego is bruised? No one OWES me respect; I might, at times, feel like I've earned it, but if I'm not getting it, it's a sign to me that I'm delusional, not that someone needs a beating. I'm not talking about physical protection, I'm talking about words, I'm talking about jokes like we're talking about here. My wife and I watch a fair amount of reality TV and this comes up a lot. "I've been disrespected!". No, bitch, you just haven't had your ass kissed in a manner that you (unreasonably) expected. Life isn't about having your ass kissed. Man up and move on, and if you can't man up and move on, go to therapy. NO ONE OWES YOU ANYTHING IN THIS WORLD.
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Hef, i get it. Just seems very competitive to me.
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Regardless if the joke was tasteless or not; talking about another actor's wife in front of an audience of millions is probably not the best policy. They both were at fault and Smith much more so obviously.
But once we get into "best policy", we're not in a zone we can enforce anymore. Sort of independent of this particular incident, "best policy" is, arguably, truth, right? But there's no law that in interpersonal relationships I have to be truthful. To the best of my knowledge, a defense for assault and battery is not "well, he lied to me!". I'm not looking at this as "how we want people to act", but rather, how accountable we can hold OTHERS to a standard, and what that standard is.
You know what Stads? Not every comment deserves a debate or argument. By "best policy", I meant best judgement (you know like honesty). Chris Rock of all people should know that sometimes in comedy you have to generalize and not drop names. Especially when it's not your own comedy show. The only thing in this case that can be enforced is assault. Now, if you're talking about introducing "accountability" for those in high places, that's something entirely different. That wasn't my point.
It's a conversation. If you don't want to engage, well, that bums me out, but I'll live. My only point here, and I intended it to build on your thought, not negate it, is that part of the issue here is that we have at a minimum three different standards (Rock's, Smith's, and the general public's) and likely more, since there is no general consensus, really. And that to me is the problem we face in our society today. We have this tendency, this need, to force others to adhere to OUR standard, whether they agree with it or not, or, even, if they even know it. It was just a thought, just an idea.
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Rock said "Jada boycotting the Oscars is like me boycotting Rihanna’s panties. I wasn’t invited!”
That's a great joke, regardless of to whom it's directed.
How would you feel if your wife banged one of your son's friends which Jada did?
But an open marriage is an open marriage. If I agree to that, then it is what it is. I mean, is there a list of approved hookups for her?
There was someone else, too. Some rapper if I remember correctly. Hey, it's his life. I don't think I could necessarily live that way, at least not having it on the national papers and being discussed on talk shows, but then again, I'm not narcissistic enough to presume I could entertain millions of people with my acting, so it's apples and oranges.
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Here comes the fallout...
The Academy is now saying that Will Smith was asked to leave and refused, and concedes that they should have done more. That reeks of CYA.
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Here comes the fallout...
The Academy is now saying that Will Smith was asked to leave and refused, and concedes that they should have done more. That reeks of CYA.
Yup, just saw that from AP...and I agree, everyone is going maximum damage control.
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I think it is pathetic that a man can assault someone on stage, sit back and then gets the award as if nothing happened. I don't hate Will Smith now or anything, but I do think there should be repercussions.
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I saw a headline where Whoopi Goldberg (lol, I know), who is apparently on the Academy committee, said there will be big consequences, whatever that means. I suspect they are seeing this story not die down and how much blowback there is and feeling like they have to do something.
I thought it was interesting that Chris Rock's brother said yesterday that P. Diddy's comment about Rock and Smith making amends Sunday night was a lie and that Smith has still not reached out to his brother to personally apologize.
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I saw a headline where Whoopi Goldberg (lol, I know), who is apparently on the Academy committee, said there will be big consequences, whatever that means. I suspect they are seeing this story not die down and how much blowback there is and feeling like they have to do something.
I thought it was interesting that Chris Rock's brother said yesterday that P. Diddy's comment about Rock and Smith making amends Sunday night was a lie and that Smith has still not reached out to his brother to personally apologize.
I highly doubt he will, his ego is way too fucking big for such actions. A written statement by his rep was about all Rock will get.
As to Whoopi et al... It seems everyone else n the Hollywood scene is trying to turn the focus on themselves, seeing how much of the spotlight they can gather before it fades, like Schumer saying how "traumatized" she was by it. This one will be beaten to death.
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On that last note, I'm seeing a lot of the picture of Bradley Cooper talking to Smith after the incident. Like he's some great peacemaker of our time. :)
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On that last note, I'm seeing a lot of the picture of Bradley Cooper talking to Smith after the incident. Like he's some great peacemaker of our time. :)
Face and B A Baracus talking about how to handle Murdock... that's what I saw.
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And the Fresh Prince resigns from the Academy.
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AMPAS will continue with their disciplinary action against him so I'm not really sure how resigning will ultimately help him but...ok.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/01/will-smith-resigns-from-motion-picture-academy-over-chris-rock-oscars-slap.html
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1st step. He did the right thing. At some point, if he shows repentance, he'll be allowed back again.
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I am guessing he was "allowed" to resign, rather than them publicly removing him, as a way for him to save a little face. The Academy will likely give him a slap on the wrist here in a few weeks and eventually quietly let him back in once enough time has passed and most have stop caring about it.
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What does resigning from the Acadamy actually mean? Does he no longer receive the newsletter?
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That plus he forfeits the dues he paid for the year, and doesn't get to sit in the special area with the free peanuts on the table.
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I suppose he's off the Christmas card list too?
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And he will be tied down with his eyes forced open ala A Clockwork Orange and forced to watch Kiss songs. The harshest punishment possible!!
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A Clockwork Orange is one movie reference I get! :metal
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A Clockwork Orange is one movie reference I get! :metal
ARCHIVE THE THREAD NOW!
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What does resigning from the Acadamy actually mean? Does he no longer receive the newsletter?
From what little I read, he will no longer receive screeners of potential nominees and he will not be allowed to vote.
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What does resigning from the Acadamy actually mean? Does he no longer receive the newsletter?
From what little I read, he will no longer receive screeners of potential nominees and he will not be allowed to vote.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/3osInnzG67HIIyFFsb/200.gif)
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Exactly. The American justice system could really learn a thing or two from that.
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And he will be tied down with his eyes forced open ala A Clockwork Orange and forced to watch Kiss songs. The harshest punishment possible!!
Actually, if you're a critic, "watching" Kiss songs is arguably the better way of experiencing them. I disagree, of course, but I'm biased. :)
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I haven't seen video of the slap because honestly I don't like watching non-fictional embarrassing things (outside of people like Marge Green making complete asses of themselves, but anyways) but my take is very simple. Chris Rock shouldn't have made that joke in that venue, to that crowd, and Will Smith shouldn't have smacked him. That's it. Rock started it, but Smith ended up being more in the wrong. That's how these things roll sometimes.
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Dumb take. These actors know their going to get roasted. Will Smith could have reached out the the Oscars and explained his wife was sensitive about her Alopecia.
If you watched the video, you'd know that Will laughed first only to turn and see his wife upset. Then took it to a whole new wrong level.
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Eh, I just thought it was a mean-spirited joke on Rock's part. I generally like him pretty well but I just think it was ill-judged this time. Smith definitely reacted horrendously though and came off looking way worse than Rock.
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I don't think it was mean spirited. I just think for THAT setting, it was likely inappropriate IF he knew about her Alopecia. If he didn't know, then...he might be assuming it's her choice, and then it would be ok.
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I doubt he did. He's not a mean spirited person.
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Plus, like Bill Maher said, let's not act like alopecia is cancer or a death sentence. Your hair falls out. Big deal. And Jada seemed to have no problem rocking the bald head, so rolling her eyes and all but persuading her husband to slap the guy who made an inoffensive joke seems more than a bit messed up. Rock has zero culpability in this whole thing, IMO.
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So Jada made Will go up and hit the guy?
And I'm the one with the dumb take! Will wonders never cease.
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So Jada made Will go up and hit the guy?
And I'm the one with the dumb take! Will wonders never cease.
Nobody said that. By no means is anyone excusing Smith's actions. He is responsible for those. I think it is a given though that he only did it because of Jada's reaction, especially since Smith laughed at the joke in real time. Once he saw Jada's aggravated look, that is when the switch flipped and he went up on stage and slapped Rock.
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(https://i.redd.it/amyqyh69y7q81.jpg)
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So Jada made Will go up and hit the guy?
And I'm the one with the dumb take! Will wonders never cease.
If you haven't seen the video, then yes. It's a dumb take.
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I don't think it was mean spirited. I just think for THAT setting, it was likely inappropriate IF he knew about her Alopecia. If he didn't know, then...he might be assuming it's her choice, and then it would be ok.
I was just recently reminded that Chris and Jada did voices together in Madagascar. They were close and had some good times back in the day. I think it was a gentle jab at a friend rather a mean spirited joke. I still didn't like the joke, but I don't think it was meant as an insult.
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So Jada made Will go up and hit the guy?
And I'm the one with the dumb take! Will wonders never cease.
Nobody said that. By no means is anyone excusing Smith's actions. He is responsible for those. I think it is a given though that he only did it because of Jada's reaction, especially since Smith laughed at the joke in real time. Once he saw Jada's aggravated look, that is when the switch flipped and he went up on stage and slapped Rock.
I happen to agree with Kev on this, but at the end of the day, there are a series of actions/reactions that we can't now and will likely never fully understand, as outsiders to the interactions between Chris, Jada and Will through history. ANYONE watching "This Is Us", and watching how Toby is trying to navigate what it is that Kate wants but is failing miserably, knows this. I went through this with my first marriage. You can't judge the "logic" of Will's actions by only looking at the glance at his wife. Their marriage has had tribulations and they've been upfront about it. You have NO IDEA if a recurring theme between them was Will's "ignorance" of Jada's needs/wants/etc. and that was his way of making a more general statement about their marriage. Or maybe the discussion was "well, my kid's friend is more of man than you are, Mr. Big Action Star, and you better start showing you're capable of handling me!" or something like that. We have NO IDEA, and making grand proclamations that "this is RIGHT!" and "this is WRONG!" based on things you don't know is ridiculous (and yes, I'm standing by that word).
At the end of the day, we only have broad principles to fall back on, and in general, this is why words are okay, actions are not. It doesn't matter if Chris Rock said "And Jada, is that cooter of yours as bald as the head? Does the lack of carpet match the lack of drapes?" or something equally crass. Will is STILL WRONG - broadly - for smacking Chris Rock ON STAGE, in public.
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So Jada made Will go up and hit the guy?
And I'm the one with the dumb take! Will wonders never cease.
Nobody said that. By no means is anyone excusing Smith's actions. He is responsible for those. I think it is a given though that he only did it because of Jada's reaction, especially since Smith laughed at the joke in real time. Once he saw Jada's aggravated look, that is when the switch flipped and he went up on stage and slapped Rock.
I happen to agree with Kev on this, but at the end of the day, there are a series of actions/reactions that we can't now and will likely never fully understand, as outsiders to the interactions between Chris, Jada and Will through history. ANYONE watching "This Is Us", and watching how Toby is trying to navigate what it is that Kate wants but is failing miserably, knows this. I went through this with my first marriage. You can't judge the "logic" of Will's actions by only looking at the glance at his wife. Their marriage has had tribulations and they've been upfront about it. You have NO IDEA if a recurring theme between them was Will's "ignorance" of Jada's needs/wants/etc. and that was his way of making a more general statement about their marriage. Or maybe the discussion was "well, my kid's friend is more of man than you are, Mr. Big Action Star, and you better start showing you're capable of handling me!" or something like that. We have NO IDEA, and making grand proclamations that "this is RIGHT!" and "this is WRONG!" based on things you don't know is ridiculous (and yes, I'm standing by that word).
At the end of the day, we only have broad principles to fall back on, and in general, this is why words are okay, actions are not. It doesn't matter if Chris Rock said "And Jada, is that cooter of yours as bald as the head? Does the lack of carpet match the lack of drapes?" or something equally crass. Will is STILL WRONG - broadly - for smacking Chris Rock ON STAGE, in public.
I HAVE been watching this from the beginning, and this show has (surprisingly) made me re-evaluate a ton of things I thought I'd already made up my mind on.
Interestingly enough, it's also sparked some pretty interesting conversations between my wife and I.
Never in a million years would I have thought a network drama would have the ability to spark such intense reflection.
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So Jada made Will go up and hit the guy?
And I'm the one with the dumb take! Will wonders never cease.
Nobody said that. By no means is anyone excusing Smith's actions. He is responsible for those. I think it is a given though that he only did it because of Jada's reaction, especially since Smith laughed at the joke in real time. Once he saw Jada's aggravated look, that is when the switch flipped and he went up on stage and slapped Rock.
I happen to agree with Kev on this, but at the end of the day, there are a series of actions/reactions that we can't now and will likely never fully understand, as outsiders to the interactions between Chris, Jada and Will through history. ANYONE watching "This Is Us", and watching how Toby is trying to navigate what it is that Kate wants but is failing miserably, knows this. I went through this with my first marriage. You can't judge the "logic" of Will's actions by only looking at the glance at his wife. Their marriage has had tribulations and they've been upfront about it. You have NO IDEA if a recurring theme between them was Will's "ignorance" of Jada's needs/wants/etc. and that was his way of making a more general statement about their marriage. Or maybe the discussion was "well, my kid's friend is more of man than you are, Mr. Big Action Star, and you better start showing you're capable of handling me!" or something like that. We have NO IDEA, and making grand proclamations that "this is RIGHT!" and "this is WRONG!" based on things you don't know is ridiculous (and yes, I'm standing by that word).
At the end of the day, we only have broad principles to fall back on, and in general, this is why words are okay, actions are not. It doesn't matter if Chris Rock said "And Jada, is that cooter of yours as bald as the head? Does the lack of carpet match the lack of drapes?" or something equally crass. Will is STILL WRONG - broadly - for smacking Chris Rock ON STAGE, in public.
I HAVE been watching this from the beginning, and this show has (surprisingly) made me re-evaluate a ton of things I thought I'd already made up my mind on.
Interestingly enough, it's also sparked some pretty interesting conversations between my wife and I.
Never in a million years would I have thought a network drama would have the ability to spark such intense reflection.
Same for me (and my wife). Best show on network television for me, and it's not even close. This is the last season, and I'm well and truly sad it's going (but thrilled that it's going out on top, without jumping the shark and introducing kids and animals to extend the franchise).
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We are large fans of the show as well, and I hate seeing what's happening right now, but I think it's being done extremely well by everyone involved.
Only 5 or 6 episodes left, if I'm not mistaken.
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We are large fans of the show as well, and I hate seeing what's happening right now, but I think it's being done extremely well by everyone involved.
Only 5 or 6 episodes left, if I'm not mistaken.
My one and only complaint—it just doesn't seem like enough time to wrap it all up in a satisfying way.
That being said, I applaud everyone invovled for walking away on their own accord.
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Will Smith has been banned from attending the Oscars for the next 10 years.
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Will Smith has been banned from attending the Oscars for the next 10 years.
Wow, I didn't think they'd come down so hard. Shocking.
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Will Smith has been banned from attending the Oscars for the next 10 years.
That’ll teach him.
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We are large fans of the show as well, and I hate seeing what's happening right now, but I think it's being done extremely well by everyone involved.
Only 5 or 6 episodes left, if I'm not mistaken.
My one and only complaint—it just doesn't seem like enough time to wrap it all up in a satisfying way.
That being said, I applaud everyone invovled for walking away on their own accord.
The odds of me crying next week are infinity. I think I started just watching the teasers. :)
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Will Smith has been banned from attending the Oscars for the next 10 years.
I wonder if he can file an appeal on that. That said, I'm not sure how bummed he would be about it or if this is an actual bigger deal on the outside.
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I’m pretty confident they’ll quietly overturn it in the next few years.
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Just watched the movie "The Legend of Bagger Vance" last night and Will Smith was in a lot better of a mood.
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I’m pretty confident they’ll quietly overturn it in the next few years.
He's been apologetic to his family, he's been contrite with the media, and he's been humbly repentant to his peers and colleagues, but Will Smith seems wise enough to know that these are not where his salvation lies. There is a power higher than any of us, an authority that stands beyond any wife or child or fanbase to whom the truly repentant celebrity must seek forgiveness: Saint Oprah of Winfrey. If he hopes to have his Academy ban lifted he must first unburden his humanity to Her. Literally billions of Hollywood dollars depend upon it. It'll happen within the next few months.
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my understanding is that even with his membership resigned and being banned from attending academy events, he can still be nominated and win. Though the likelihood of that is pretty low at this point.
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I’m pretty confident they’ll quietly overturn it in the next few years.
He's been apologetic to his family, he's been contrite with the media, and he's been humbly repentant to his peers and colleagues, but Will Smith seems wise enough to know that these are not where his salvation lies. There is a power higher than any of us, an authority that stands beyond any wife or child or fanbase to whom the truly repentant celebrity must seek forgiveness: Saint Oprah of Winfrey. If he hopes to have his Academy ban lifted he must first unburden his humanity to Her. Literally billions of Hollywood dollars depend upon it. It'll happen within the next few months.
Fucking for real..
HI Dave, hope you're doing well.
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So apparently attacking comedians on stage is now a thing. Lots of n-words in the clips as you would expect from Chappelle. So just fair warning.
https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/dave-chappelle-attacked-on-stage-1235257796/?fbclid=IwAR1luUbwbz12rV66RUb6Pg6HITM8UK27pa_Z2bNTDCzlaqL2BxLPZqepEhM
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Dude that jumped Chappelle got roughed up bad by security. Not that the dummy didn't deserve a beatdown with a gun/knife on him but now, in the world we live in, he'll get rich for suing the venue, Chappelle and Fox who also jumped in on the dumb dude.
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Dude that jumped Chappelle got roughed up bad by security. Not that the dummy didn't deserve a beatdown with a gun/knife on him but now, in the world we live in, he'll get rich for suing the venue, Chappelle and Fox who also jumped in on the dumb dude.
Not sure he has much of a case when he initiated the incident, no?
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Dude that jumped Chappelle got roughed up bad by security. Not that the dummy didn't deserve a beatdown with a gun/knife on him but now, in the world we live in, he'll get rich for suing the venue, Chappelle and Fox who also jumped in on the dumb dude.
Not sure he has much of a case when he initiated the incident, no?
It could go either way, I think. If I steal a chunky bar and a cop sees and tackles me, and then continues to deliver blows to my head even after I'm subdued, it can be considered unnecessary force.
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Dude that jumped Chappelle got roughed up bad by security. Not that the dummy didn't deserve a beatdown with a gun/knife on him but now, in the world we live in, he'll get rich for suing the venue, Chappelle and Fox who also jumped in on the dumb dude.
Not sure he has much of a case when he initiated the incident, no?
It could go either way, I think. If I steal a chunky bar and a cop sees and tackles me, and then continues to deliver blows to my head even after I'm subdued, it can be considered unnecessary force.
A few years back at the WWE Hall of Fame, some crazy guy decided to get into the ring and attack Bret Hart and then at least three wrestlers and I think a MMA fighter went to town on the guy, I think. Don't think anything came out of it from what I recall outside of the guy getting arrested for trespassing and assault and whatnot.
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Dude that jumped Chappelle got roughed up bad by security. Not that the dummy didn't deserve a beatdown with a gun/knife on him but now, in the world we live in, he'll get rich for suing the venue, Chappelle and Fox who also jumped in on the dumb dude.
Not sure he has much of a case when he initiated the incident, no?
You'd think but it's never the case. Have you see the video of his arm dislocated bending backwards and he face blown up from the beatdown?
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"Don't worry folks. He'll get the help he needs."
(https://youtu.be/r5JAd8-qqNI?t=146)
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We just need more security like this guy. Service with a smile!
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/erotomaniac/Emo%20Fight%20Night/100_3494-2.jpg)
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Not sure his apology tour is going well this week, while promoting his new film. My biggest takeaway is that Will Smith is still one arrogant individual and he is only sorry because of the blowback.
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I think perhaps Will Smith should turn his slapping talents on Joey McFarland (the producer of the film) for doing this. White people are so cringy sometimes. smdh
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2022-12-01/emancipation-premiere-enslaved-photo-joey-mcfarland
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I think perhaps Will Smith should turn his slapping talents on Joey McFarland (the producer of the film) for doing this. White people are so cringy sometimes. smdh
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2022-12-01/emancipation-premiere-enslaved-photo-joey-mcfarland
Paywall....
Also, generalizing about "white people"??
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I think perhaps Will Smith should turn his slapping talents on Joey McFarland (the producer of the film) for doing this. White people are so cringy sometimes. smdh
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2022-12-01/emancipation-premiere-enslaved-photo-joey-mcfarland
Damn. You're never going to please everybody, and nowadays you're going to piss half of them off either way. Given that we've reached a point where a person is damned if they do and damned if they don't, people need to just stop trying.
Life in a world where context and intent are things to be disregarded.
Paywall....
https://archive.ph/T2Xky
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I think perhaps Will Smith should turn his slapping talents on Joey McFarland (the producer of the film) for doing this. White people are so cringy sometimes. smdh
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2022-12-01/emancipation-premiere-enslaved-photo-joey-mcfarland
Paywall....
Also, generalizing about "white people"??
Ever heard of the "Karen" phenomenon?
I'm a white person so yeah...we can be hella cringy sometimes. Can you imagine being a black person and seeing this guy whip out a historical artifact depicting what many people feel is the hallmark image of the abused black slave like it is a baseball or Pokemon trading card? It's just part of a collection of artifacts that he has that he will donate to a museum once he dies? But not now? Does whipping it out like that make its value increase? Does it make you wonder how he came to own it in the first place? (There is some decent reporting about that aspect of the story going on out there if you want to dig for it.)
I mean, people collect Nazi memorabilia so I guess it shouldn't seem all that weird but yes, I think it is cringy and I am definitely not the only one who thinks so. If you are truly interested in learning why, I'd suggest you check out Michael Harriot's Twitter post thread about it. And/or Franklin Leonard's. Both of those people have infinitely more wisdom about it than I do.
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I think an action of one dumb man does not encompass all white males. Generalizing is perhaps the worst thing one can do about any race. This goes for any race and why so many people fight between each other instead of respecting each other. The man is an idiot to think he should show it.
I went to the Smithsonian Institute African American Museum. I was embarrassed and felt like I needed to do something, but I held back. I just thanked those who worked there for opening my eyes. So this producer probably had good intentions but should have known better and just went being humbled.
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I think perhaps Will Smith should turn his slapping talents on Joey McFarland (the producer of the film) for doing this. White people are so cringy sometimes. smdh
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2022-12-01/emancipation-premiere-enslaved-photo-joey-mcfarland
Regardless, that photo is a piece of history and I have said before, the truth is not pretty. If you want to learn about a certain period, there are going to be remnants that are not pretty to look at either. And all he did was bring a photograph to a movie premier about the man portrayed in the photograph. :facepalm:
I think perhaps Will Smith should turn his slapping talents on Joey McFarland (the producer of the film) for doing this. White people are so cringy sometimes. smdh
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2022-12-01/emancipation-premiere-enslaved-photo-joey-mcfarland
Paywall....
Also, generalizing about "white people"??
Ever heard of the "Karen" phenomenon?
I'm a white person so yeah...we can be hella cringy sometimes. Can you imagine being a black person and seeing this guy whip out a historical artifact depicting what many people feel is the hallmark image of the abused black slave like it is a baseball or Pokemon trading card? It's just part of a collection of artifacts that he has that he will donate to a museum once he dies? But not now? Does whipping it out like that make its value increase? Does it make you wonder how he came to own it in the first place? (There is some decent reporting about that aspect of the story going on out there if you want to dig for it.)
I mean, people collect Nazi memorabilia so I guess it shouldn't seem all that weird but yes, I think it is cringy and I am definitely not the only one who thinks so. If you are truly interested in learning why, I'd suggest you check out Michael Harriot's Twitter post thread about it. And/or Franklin Leonard's. Both of those people have infinitely more wisdom about it than I do.
Cultural Artifacts and housing them in museums is not a simple topic. In regards to Native American artifacts, many of them were stolen and placed in these museums without our consent. Lots of things in those museums are rightfully still ours and should be returned. The cultural value of these types of artifacts should outweigh the historical value. But also, these artifacts are not a picture, they're the actual thing. A picture is entirely different as that is a snapshot in time, and housing a picture of an artifact or historical moment is not the same as housing the actual artifact.
I do not think of him as being dumb or doing anything bad by taking a photograph to a movie premier. And I feel it's just more of the left spewing things that they do not understand about culture and humanity.
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Cultural Artifacts and housing them in museums is not a simple topic. In regards to Native American artifacts, many of them were stolen and placed in these museums without our consent. Lots of things in those museums are rightfully still ours and should be returned. The cultural value of these types of artifacts should outweigh the historical value. But also, these artifacts are not a picture, they're the actual thing. A picture is entirely different as that is a snapshot in time, and housing a picture of an artifact or historical moment is not the same as housing the actual artifact.
I do not think of him as being dumb or doing anything bad by taking a photograph to a movie premier. And I feel it's just more of the left spewing things that they do not understand about culture and humanity.
I agree - those artifacts should be returned.
So you are saying McFarland lied when he said he had the "original photograph from 1863"? What 'actual artifact' are you referring to? The photograph IS the artifact.
Are you suggesting that black people are "spewing things they do not understand about culture and humanity" when they ask questions or make objections about how their own culture is being used to sell?
You don't have any objections about how Hollywood has portrayed Native Americans in film over the decades? I'm genuinely curious, not attempting a gotcha here.
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Wait, I'm confused. The producer took an old picture of the guy the movie is about to the premiere with him? Why is this a big deal?
Did I miss something?
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I think an action of one dumb man does not encompass all white males. Generalizing is perhaps the worst thing one can do about any race. This goes for any race and why so many people fight between each other instead of respecting each other. The man is an idiot to think he should show it.
Agreed, and that is what the whole Karen thing. I find it curious that is now acceptable to attribute negative stereotypes to white women by calling them a "Karen." We shouldn't be doing that with any races (and we, the general we, never should have). I suspect on some level that some minorities feel like, "Fuck it, we have been on the receiving end of racial stereotypes for centuries, so let's see how some white people like it," but denouncing racism while throwing some of your own out there is not the answer. Look at how some are losing their minds over the Jerry Jones picture from 65 freaking years ago. I saw that one of Terrell Owens demands of Jerry Jones was that he denounce anti-black racism. Not racism, just anti-black racism, because white racism is all Kool and the Gang, as shown by how carelessly many throw around the Karen thing now.
And I am obviously not suggesting that any "suffering" from the Karen connotation is even close to what blacks have dealt with over decades. It's not. I am merely illustrating the point that it is ugly to see those complaining about racism throwing some of their own out there, even when it is generally on a pretty limited scale.
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Cultural Artifacts and housing them in museums is not a simple topic. In regards to Native American artifacts, many of them were stolen and placed in these museums without our consent. Lots of things in those museums are rightfully still ours and should be returned. The cultural value of these types of artifacts should outweigh the historical value. But also, these artifacts are not a picture, they're the actual thing. A picture is entirely different as that is a snapshot in time, and housing a picture of an artifact or historical moment is not the same as housing the actual artifact.
I do not think of him as being dumb or doing anything bad by taking a photograph to a movie premier. And I feel it's just more of the left spewing things that they do not understand about culture and humanity.
I agree - those artifacts should be returned.
So you are saying McFarland lied when he said he had the "original photograph from 1863"? What 'actual artifact' are you referring to? The photograph IS the artifact.
Are you suggesting that black people are "spewing things they do not understand about culture and humanity" when they ask questions or make objections about how their own culture is being used to sell?
You don't have any objections about how Hollywood has portrayed Native Americans in film over the decades? I'm genuinely curious, not attempting a gotcha here.
The photograph is the the moment captured in time. It's not the artifact as in having the actual whip that was used to cause those scars. Photographs are utilized as a source of information because it shows what happened within that time. It's why I have no problem if someone were to have a photograph of what my people went through. The only closest things we have are the boarding school pictures, but most of these atrocities weren't photographed.
Let me tell you, how would one define "Black" culture? That's another issue in itself as many black people do not follow African Culture. Because these people were taken away from their African Roots, these Black Americans have formed their own "Black American Culture" and only they as "Black Americans" can determine what "Black American Culture" is. This all boils down to humans having a Cultural Identity. And it's fascinating when humans were forced from this Cultural Identity. That's the reason why African Americans feel robbed.
And no, I do not care about how we were portrayed in film because I understand the differences between what is fiction and what is reality. It's why I say and am proud that Indigenous People in America are making a name for themselves by creating their own shows and films. Reservation Dogs is a great example of this and this is closer to how Native American life is in Modern Times. I understand my Cultural Identity, and some of these Natives are also struggling with this Cultural Identity, by trying to live within two worlds, one of the Western Culture and one of their Traditional Culture.
I understand how awful things were, I know history is never pretty. I do not wish for History to be whitewashed because some people can't handle the gruesome truth.