DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: gmillerdrake on February 16, 2022, 07:00:08 AM
-
The 'tour' thread is locked so just wanted to drop a couple comments about the show last night.
First off, JLB sounded really friggin' good. I think he and the band are doing a great job at working around his 58 year old vocal chords when it comes to songs that it's just physically impossible for him to hit the notes any longer....like "6:00", sounded great.
Second, JP was entirely too loud. He drowned out the other three guys in many sections last night where while you could 'hear' them....the utter volume of his guitar was dare I say distracting at times. He needed to be bumped down a bit IMO.
MM is a beast on drums. Plain and simple....dude just gets after it and it's fun to watch. JMX is just steady eddie and fires away at that bass....his fingers are always going 100mph. In some of the sections where he was highlighted he really shined.
My boys had a blast and I went ahead and sprung for merch.....bought them each a concert shirt so they were happy about that as well. All in all, the concert was great and I was happy we didn't have to road trip to see them, but my small nit pick is JP overpowered the entire band in multiple spots last night. But that didn't detract from the fact we got to see DT again.
Highlights for me were:
- Awaken the Master - Incredible Live
- AVFTTOTW was awesome Live
- JLB sounded great
Who knows how many more opportunities we will have for that? I looked up their ages as my wife was asking me and JR is 65, JLB and MM are 58, JP is 54 and JMX is 55. JR is the one that 'scares' me as 65 is no joke as far as touring and what not. JLB mentioned they're going to tour for the next year and half....puts them a solid 2.5-3 years out from a new album.....JR may be 68 before they tour again! Crazy!
-
That's awesome Gary!!! Can't wait for next week here.
-
Awesome, Gary! I fully agree that Awaken and View were incredible live. (see my review in the Oakland thread) Interesting mix issue. I thought the mix on the instrumentalists was just about perfect in Oakland, and JP's guitar tone was incredible on most songs. My issue with the mix at that show was just that the vocals were too low and the vocal backing track was too high.
-
Awesome, Gary! I fully agree that Awaken and View were incredible live. (see my review in the Oakland thread) Interesting mix issue. I thought the mix on the instrumentalists was just about perfect in Oakland, and JP's guitar tone was incredible on most songs. My issue with the mix at that show was just that the vocals were too low and the vocal backing track was too high.
It was weird because it was only in moments.....not the whole time. I don't know if it was the venue acoustics or where we sat (first row balcony) but there were just times where JP's guitar drowned everyone. OR, I just can't hear because I'm old :lol
-
Not sure why some are bothered by "spoilers" in the other thread, but since some complained, this is now its own thing. (and there is obviously other tour discussion in the concerts/setlists subforum)
-
Amazing show. 2nd time seeing DT. Hope to see them again within a few years.
-
Didn't someone post here that JP said they would add more shows after the European leg (or whenever that is)??
And any word on them videoing this tour?
-
Didn't someone post here that JP said they would add more shows after the European leg (or whenever that is)??
And any word on them videoing this tour?
Last night in Cincinnati, James said they plan to tour for the next year and a half and said they would be "coming back here".
-
Didn't someone post here that JP said they would add more shows after the European leg (or whenever that is)??
And any word on them videoing this tour?
Last night in Cincinnati, James said they plan to tour for the next year and a half and said they would be "coming back here".
I heard 2 year tour in Oakland, then 1 1/2 years in Denver.
And ya! this tour is awesome!! I can't imagine there would ever be a bad DT tour.
-
I don't know if this is the right place for this question because there are a few tour threads but...historically has weather cancelled shows? I ask because it will be snowing 5-8" in Boston on Friday just in time for the show. That's really not that much snow, but I thought I'd inquire here anyway. Anybody else going to the Boston show?
-Tof
-
I don't know if this is the right place for this question because there are a few tour threads but...historically has weather cancelled shows? I ask because it will be snowing 5-8" in Boston on Friday just in time for the show. That's really not that much snow, but I thought I'd inquire here anyway. Anybody else going to the Boston show?
-Tof
We were talking about it here..
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=57218.35
Not sure what forecast to believe. 5" over the course of Thursday night to Friday evening should be fine.
-
I don't know if this is the right place for this question because there are a few tour threads but...historically has weather cancelled shows? I ask because it will be snowing 5-8" in Boston on Friday just in time for the show. That's really not that much snow, but I thought I'd inquire here anyway. Anybody else going to the Boston show?
There's been a few times that it has happened. Off the top of my head, there were 3 shows in March(?) 1993 that they canceled because of a super bad storm in the NE. And in 2006 they were supposed to play Salt Lake City but because of the weather - specifically the mountainous roads they needed to take to get there from the previous gig - they had to cancel. Otherwise, I can't think of any other occasions where they canceled due to the weather.
-
IDK if it's related to weather but I had a cancelled gig in france 2004 because their gear wasn't arriving from eastern europe
-
So I was a "wait and see" guy as far as the tour goes when the album came out. I liked, not loved, the album and while it's grown on me a bit, it's not in the upper tier of DT records. I had taken a wait-and-see approach to the tour, and honestly was leaning against going.
Fate has it, I decided to listen to the epics in order to make my ranking, and about that same time, I found out I'm able to go Saturday to the show in Wallingford. On top of seeing a bunch of friends again, I've been playing the setlist on my iPod, and frankly, I'm getting pretty stoked. I'm actually really excited to see this show.
This isn't a dig, and I'm not looking to start something, but I'm hoping that James delivers. So many of the songs in the set are, for me, favorites because of James. Fingers crossed....
-
Bill, he was pretty good in Boston. He seems to have really settled in. That first week of the tour was atrocious for him. I actually thought the whole band was off a bit.
AVFTTOTW is amazing live. JP's Moore-esque solos in the middle, and holy shit does that outro bring it home.
-
Bill, he was pretty good in Boston. He seems to have really settled in. That first week of the tour was atrocious for him. I actually thought the whole band was off a bit.
AVFTTOTW is amazing live. JP's Moore-esque solos in the middle, and holy shit does that outro bring it home.
100% agree! I'm sure you'll love the show Stadler..
-
This isn't a dig, and I'm not looking to start something, but I'm hoping that James delivers. So many of the songs in the set are, for me, favorites because of James. Fingers crossed....
I have faith he will. From my experience, he always does, but it's not until I go back to the video where you notice some of his struggles. In person, I almost never notice these so it has never taken away from the actual live experience.
-
Honestly the worst thing about James these past few tours has been his stage banter. :lol (thankfully that only happens a couple times per show)
-
https://youtu.be/ehsnpiCLVNY
Just watched this video from the Boston show. The outro section/riff on A View from this performance was amazing to watch on YT, I can only imagine in person! It's clearly one of those passages that improve 100% live, even more with MM's energetic playing. Wasn't a huge fan of this part on the record, but live it sounds truly badass :metal
-
https://youtu.be/ehsnpiCLVNY
Just watched this video from the Boston show. The outro section/riff on A View from this performance was amazing to watch on YT, I can only imagine in person! It's clearly one of those passages that improve 100% live, even more with MM's energetic playing. Wasn't a huge fan of this part on the record, but live it sounds truly badass :metal
That outro may have been THE signature moment of the show for me. It was incredibly powerful. When it ended, I turned to my son and said "That was incredible", and he replied "Yeah", which is a very affirmative answer for him as he is not into DT.
-
That first week of the tour was atrocious for him.
Can't speak to any other shows, because I wasn't there, but he was pretty great at Oakland.
-
I don't know if this is the right place for this question because there are a few tour threads but...historically has weather cancelled shows? I ask because it will be snowing 5-8" in Boston on Friday just in time for the show. That's really not that much snow, but I thought I'd inquire here anyway. Anybody else going to the Boston show?
There's been a few times that it has happened. Off the top of my head, there were 3 shows in March(?) 1993 that they canceled because of a super bad storm in the NE. And in 2006 they were supposed to play Salt Lake City but because of the weather - specifically the mountainous roads they needed to take to get there from the previous gig - they had to cancel. Otherwise, I can't think of any other occasions where they canceled due to the weather.
Lignano, Italy, in 2017, 1 minute before the show was supposed to start because of the rain - and the stage being very poorly coverd.
Clearly i was there with first row ticket in front of JP and an after show pass (won through the astonishing app) that never happened.
-
That first week of the tour was atrocious for him.
Can't speak to any other shows, because I wasn't there, but he was pretty great at Oakland.
Yep, he was great in Seattle too! 💯💥
-
Honestly the worst thing about James these past few tours has been his stage banter. :lol (thankfully that only happens a couple times per show)
Is he still using that "rock and roll voice" to do the stage talk? You know what I mean...
-
This isn't a dig, and I'm not looking to start something, but I'm hoping that James delivers. So many of the songs in the set are, for me, favorites because of James. Fingers crossed....
I have faith he will. From my experience, he always does, but it's not until I go back to the video where you notice some of his struggles. In person, I almost never notice these so it has never taken away from the actual live experience.
And that's how it is with me, too. My bar isn't THAT high; I don't mind some struggles. It's when it gets so bad that it's noticeable even WITH the energy of the live experience. I'm talking to you, Vince Neil. ;)
-
That first week of the tour was atrocious for him.
Can't speak to any other shows, because I wasn't there, but he was pretty great at Oakland.
Well, I haven't watched any footage from Oakland, but the footage from Mesa and LA is not flattering. My main point was that I feel like he's gotten stronger as the tour has gone on. The clips in Chicago, Detroit, and Boston are all pretty good, and much better than the first few shows. And that's to be expected.
-
https://youtu.be/ehsnpiCLVNY
Just watched this video from the Boston show. The outro section/riff on A View from this performance was amazing to watch on YT, I can only imagine in person! It's clearly one of those passages that improve 100% live, even more with MM's energetic playing. Wasn't a huge fan of this part on the record, but live it sounds truly badass :metal
That outro may have been THE signature moment of the show for me. It was incredibly powerful. When it ended, I turned to my son and said "That was incredible", and he replied "Yeah", which is a very affirmative answer for him as he is not into DT.
That must have been so cool :metal
-
https://youtu.be/ehsnpiCLVNY
Just watched this video from the Boston show. The outro section/riff on A View from this performance was amazing to watch on YT, I can only imagine in person! It's clearly one of those passages that improve 100% live, even more with MM's energetic playing. Wasn't a huge fan of this part on the record, but live it sounds truly badass :metal
That outro may have been THE signature moment of the show for me. It was incredibly powerful. When it ended, I turned to my son and said "That was incredible", and he replied "Yeah", which is a very affirmative answer for him as he is not into DT.
That must have been so cool :metal
I just watched that video and I can confirm James sounds WAY better here, then he did at the San Diego show (2nd show of the tour). That's great news! And yes, the outro to A View is bad ass! I've been saying for awhile that I consider A View a top 10-15 all time DT song. And as time is passing by, I feel that opinion is only getting stronger.
-
Gosh I hope they release a dvd from this tour. I really like their last dvd, but I like the overall presentation from this tour even better. Everything from the stage production, lighting and setlist. This tour also features some of JP's best guitar playing ever imo, and JLB is in great form too. This would make for a beautiful dvd/bluray production.
:corn :metal
-
I've been saying for awhile that I consider A View a top 10-15 all time DT song. And as time is passing by, I feel that opinion is only getting stronger.
💯
-
I don't think it would get close to that high for me. But that's just a commentary on how strong the DT catalog is, and not at all an indictment of AVFTTOTW. It really is a great song.
-
Tonight’s show in NYC was great. The entire band was on point, including James. There was even a special guest in the crowd tonight: Mike Portnoy.
-
A show-goer on Twitter mentioned that James gave Mike a shoutout and Mike saluted back.
-
Tonight’s show in NYC was great. The entire band was on point, including James. There was even a special guest in the crowd tonight: Mike Portnoy.
Has it been stated if Mike has ever seen DT since he left the band, or is this the first DT concert he's attended since 2010?
A show-goer on Twitter mentioned that James gave Mike a shoutout and Mike saluted back.
I just saw that - https://twitter.com/brianjheaton/status/1499951160555233281?t=OjJLxUxZpP5SNTEzTGQd7w&s=19
Mike himself retweeted it, which is how I saw it on my Twitter feed.
-Marc.
-
When Samsara talks, people listen.
-
That's super cool of MP and James to acknowledge each other. Very cool of MP to be there.
-
The show I saw was indeed superb. The band sounds amazing and there are no signs of slowing down amongst anyone-- everyone is firing on all cylinders. James started off rough with the Alien, but sounded good for the remainder of the show. The rest of the band was virtually flawless and also showed great energy.
As a guitar nerd, I must say that JP's tone is insanely godly. Arch Echo provided the context for how good his sound truly is. Their lead guitarist, who is a great player, was inaudible at some points in his solos-- the notes were indistinguishable from each other and just buried under the noise of the other instruments. On the other hand, you could hear every single note JP played and his lead sound rang throughout the venue like sonic ecstasy. Even when he played the 8 string, it sounded crystal clear in the mix and not muddy at all. I realize this is the difference between thousands of dollars worth of gear (not to mention decades of experience doing shows and tweaking your sound) and not, but the difference was so stark.
Sort of an interesting setlist. There were no solo performances, no ballads, no intermission, and the songs seemed to sit on the longer and heavier side of the DT spectrum, with a few exceptions. I was not in love with the song selection because they omitted 2 very strong tunes from DT15 and one good song, which appears to be everyone's favorite. and instead they played 6:00, Endless Sacrifice, and Bridges in the Sky, all of which they've already played in the MM era. Bridges is one of my favorite DT songs so I was happy to experience it again but I would have preferred to hear ATC, TT, SG, or any number of songs they've never played live in the MM era.
Overall, it was a great, if not quick-feeling, evening.
-
That's super cool of MP and James to acknowledge each other. Very cool of MP to be there.
Tonight’s show in NYC was great. The entire band was on point, including James. There was even a special guest in the crowd tonight: Mike Portnoy.
Really glad to know that this happened!!
-
Tonight’s show in NYC was great. The entire band was on point, including James.
I'm literally counting the hours now til tonight :heart Fourth time for me, and first concert since 2019. So excited for the setlist.
-
Tonight’s show in NYC was great. The entire band was on point, including James.
I'm literally counting the hours now til tonight :heart Fourth time for me, and first concert since 2019. So excited for the setlist.
Leaving my house in about an hour to drive up to CT :yarr
-
So cool on Mike Portnoy's part to attend this show. I hope he really enjoyed hearing their new material, I'd like to hear his take on it.. :coolio
-
Found this on Reddit
(https://preview.redd.it/dvsscw8jakl81.jpg?auto=webp&s=ac76b36e9cd9957195a3a245460b7dfa1417265d)
And with a little bit of more searching found an article with more pictures
https://metalinjection.net/news/mike-portnoy-attended-dream-theaters-show-last-night-got-a-shout-out-from-the-stage
-
A show-goer on Twitter mentioned that James gave Mike a shoutout and Mike saluted back.
WOW! That's awesome to hear.
-
Nice of him to be there supporting the guys.
Probably interested, like many of us were/are, to see Mangini drum Dream Theater songs on a small kit.
I wonder if he sang along to some of the songs, or just sat there taking it all in, like how the guy next to me was just standing there taking it all in and clapping after the song.
Upon reflecting the show, man feels like a long time since I saw the first show, the best part of the set for me was the transition from About to Crash into The Ministry of Lost Souls. I love when random songs transition or crossfade into another, and when the ending to ATC was coming up, I was thinking "where would they go from this?", Then my eyes lit up when I heard TMOLS banging intro, I was all...."That was perfect"...
-
I remember a comment of his in the vein of never having attended a DT show before. Well, now he has.
-
Nice of him to be there supporting the guys.
Probably interested, like many of us were/are, to see Mangini drum Dream Theater songs on a small kit.
I wonder if he sang along to some of the songs, or just sat there taking it all in, like how the guy next to me was just standing there taking it all in and clapping after the song.
Upon reflecting the show, man feels like a long time since I saw the first show, the best part of the set for me was the transition from About to Crash into The Ministry of Lost Souls. I love when random songs transition or crossfade into another, and when the ending to ATC was coming up, I was thinking "where would they go from this?", Then my eyes lit up when I heard TMOLS banging intro, I was all...."That was perfect"...
Yeah that transition was perfect. This is also my favorite encore I’ve seen from them. Yes that includes A Change of Seasons. The Count of Tuscany is arguably the most satisfying sounding closer they have, and I got to cross another big favorite of mine off the live list with them playing it.
-
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=506157400878936&id=100044540401846
Mike took pics with every band member except Myung.
-Marc.
-
MP just added in a comment: "PS - Of course I spent time w John Myung as well...(in fact went to the show with his family), we just didn't snap a pic"
-
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=506157400878936&id=100044540401846
Mike took pics with every band member except Myung.
-Marc.
The photo of James and him together is probably the first good thing happened in 2022 so far!
-
I expected James would welcome Mike during the concert because no matter what James is a class act human but taking photo with Mike? I didn't expect that and James has every right not to talk with him again. But that's super cool that him and Mike united after 10-11 years. A quick small chat and a photo just made me smile. Hope their relationship grows nicely after that because no matter what deep down inside I want reunion concert at least once for the near future.
-
Frankly, I don't really care for a reunion (not in a bad way, as in "MP stay the phuck away from DT", I'm just happy with the band as it is), but I do want James and Mike to patch it up and be on good personal terms again. I hope this is a stepping stone for that. I mean, they're growing older, it's been 10 years, there's been a pandemic (and still there is) and now there's war, it is so important that 10-15 years ago MP complained about James' performance? time to bury the hatchet, life could end tomorrow and sadly it's not anymore a way of saying.
-
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=506157400878936&id=100044540401846
Mike took pics with every band member except Myung.
-Marc.
That's so cool. MPs caption about attending his 1st Dream Theater show is hilarious
-
Delete. Portnoy’s comment pretty much stated what I said.
-
That photo of Mike and James :heart
So happy for both of them.
-
I am SO HAPPY.
-
That photo of Mike and James :heart
So happy for both of them.
Finally :)
-
I'm actually happier to see the pic of MP and MM.
-
I'm actually happier to see the pic of MP and MM.
*Imagines what DT16 would be like with both drummers*
-
I'm actually happier to see the pic of MP and MM.
Yes :hefdaddy
-
That photo of Mike and James :heart
So happy for both of them.
Finally :)
Amen!
-
That is awesome, and what mirrormask said. :metal
-
Frankly, I don't really care for a reunion (not in a bad way, as in "MP stay the phuck away from DT", I'm just happy with the band as it is), but I do want James and Mike to patch it up and be on good personal terms again. I hope this is a stepping stone for that. I mean, they're growing older, it's been 10 years, there's been a pandemic (and still there is) and now there's war, it is so important that 10-15 years ago MP complained about James' performance? time to bury the hatchet, life could end tomorrow and sadly it's not anymore a way of saying.
I agree wholeheartedly.
-
Video of James's shoutout to MP (https://www.reddit.com/r/Dreamtheater/comments/t877hs/james_labrie_giving_mike_portnoy_a_shoutout_at/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) has been posted on reddit. The audio quality isn't that great, but you can hear a lot of what he says.
-
It just keeps loading. It's not playing.
-
Hmm. Does this link (https://old.reddit.com/r/Dreamtheater/comments/t877hs/james_labrie_giving_mike_portnoy_a_shoutout_at/) work any better for you?
-
Hmm. Does this link (https://old.reddit.com/r/Dreamtheater/comments/t877hs/james_labrie_giving_mike_portnoy_a_shoutout_at/) work any better for you?
Nope. :lol
-
You aren't missing too much. James pointed out MP was in the crowd, most people turned around and clapped, a lot of people threw up phones and snapped pics/videos of MP, the show proceeded. It was a quick cordial gesture but I wouldn't read much into it. At most, it appears the hatchet is buried based on the backstage picture and caption.
-
Exactly, as someone else said, the public shoutout during the show was kinda "mandatory", it's a concert, MP is there, everyone will recognize him, it was kinda a given that the frontman "had" to call for him. The backstage pic was not necessary and it shows that, at the very least, they finally talked.
-
So, there was a lot "right" about Saturday night, I have to tell you.
TAC was right; the ending of AVFTTOTW is WAY better live. I really enjoyed that.
vmadera was right; his seats were AWESOME.
I was right; as James goes, so goes Dream Theater.
A couple other posters were right; James has been ON FIRE lately. I thought he was amazing Saturday, and it really elevated the show.
The band was really tight; not a lot of "adventure" or "danger", but it's not that kind of show, so it's not a negative thing to say.
That was a really good experience for me (including meeting up with some old and new friends before the show).
-
(https://i.ibb.co/6gDRP8F/Captura-de-Pantalla-2022-03-07-a-la-s-09-29-05.png)
:heart
-
The backstage pic was not necessary and it shows that, at the very least, they finally talked.
That is true, but just to clarify, it was more than just them finally talking. There was some real mending of fences and healing that happened that night after the show. ;)
-
The backstage pic was not necessary and it shows that, at the very least, they finally talked.
That is true, but just to clarify, it was more than just them finally talking. There was some real mending of fences and healing that happened that night after the show. ;)
:heart
-
The backstage pic was not necessary and it shows that, at the very least, they finally talked.
That is true, but just to clarify, it was more than just them finally talking. There was some real mending of fences and healing that happened that night after the show. ;)
I suspected so, but that's great to hear.
-
Thanks Scotty for the facts!!
-
The backstage pic was not necessary and it shows that, at the very least, they finally talked.
That is true, but just to clarify, it was more than just them finally talking. There was some real mending of fences and healing that happened that night after the show. ;)
Generally I don't care about this too much; I'm with PG. Who they are friends with is their business, and too many of the bands I like I know the members AREN'T friends and it doesn't impact my enjoyment of their music (in some cases the tension I think CAUSES the music I like so much).
But this feels different. I don't feel like it's just "hey we're all friends, yay!". I trust you, Scotty, and I feel like there's an element of life peace here. Putting things to rest, with no goal in mind, no agenda, just living an authentic life. I can get behind that.
-
I love this for them so much. Again I have to defend my view and say that it's of course all their business if people organically grow out of their friendships, find it difficult to re-establish contact after a period, or if they just cross some lines that break communication, et cetera, but I was always sad when this happened to me, and so I'm so, so glad for them that they managed to do this. Lots of growth had to happen in order to make this happen (from what we know!). Thanks Scotty for the facts!!
Man, kudos to freaking Mike Portnoy. This band meant so much to him, we saw how much. To come to a point in time where he can go backstage, after a show he'd never thought he'd watch from the stands instead of the drum stand, and put his arm around his replacement and take a pic smiling together, that's so wonderful, and I can guess how much it meant to MM, too. To start talking to JLB again after 11 years and some change - incredible. I hope they really got to catch up.
-
The backstage pic was not necessary and it shows that, at the very least, they finally talked.
That is true, but just to clarify, it was more than just them finally talking. There was some real mending of fences and healing that happened that night after the show. ;)
Are you saying they recorded an acoustic performance backstage and it'll be on Youtube soon?
-
The backstage pic was not necessary and it shows that, at the very least, they finally talked.
That is true, but just to clarify, it was more than just them finally talking. There was some real mending of fences and healing that happened that night after the show. ;)
That's great to hear Scotty!
-
The backstage pic was not necessary and it shows that, at the very least, they finally talked.
That is true, but just to clarify, it was more than just them finally talking. There was some real mending of fences and healing that happened that night after the show. ;)
Are you saying they recorded an acoustic performance backstage and it'll be on Youtube soon?
That's what I heard.
-
The backstage pic was not necessary and it shows that, at the very least, they finally talked.
That is true, but just to clarify, it was more than just them finally talking. There was some real mending of fences and healing that happened that night after the show. ;)
This is amazing and so much more than I expected... Really happy for them! :heart
So, although I think it's still unlikely - just because it could be misunderstood or take away the focus from the proper DT show - but, maybe, who knows if we'll have something special at the Rock in Rio, maybe even at the Metal Allegiance show?
-
The backstage pic was not necessary and it shows that, at the very least, they finally talked.
That is true, but just to clarify, it was more than just them finally talking. There was some real mending of fences and healing that happened that night after the show. ;)
This is amazing and so much more than I expected... Really happy for them! :heart
So, although I think it's still unlikely - just because it could be misunderstood or take away the focus from the proper DT show - but, maybe, who knows if we'll have something special at the Rock in Rio, maybe even at the Metal Allegiance show?
I'd love to see MP join the band for the final part of TCOT to close the show (from the "could this be the end?" part).
-
unless MM leaves the band or they just call it quits, there will never be a DT-MP reunion-- not for a show, a song, a special event, or even a moment. His time in the band was great and it's over. It's the MM-era now and there's no going back. If anything, the shoutout at the Beacon illustrated just how at-peace both DT and MP are with that.
-
unless MM leaves the band or they just call it quits, there will never be a DT-MP reunion-- not for a show, a song, a special event, or even a moment. His time in the band was great and it's over. It's the MM-era now and there's no going back. If anything, the shoutout at the Beacon illustrated just how at-peace both DT and MP are with that.
I wouldn't be so sure. While I am not saying there will definitively be some sort of reunion, I can see them bringing some members back for a one-and-done show, similar to When Dream and Day Reunite.
-
The Boston show is on Dime!
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=726251
It's a Favre4 capture so you know it's good.
-
unless MM leaves the band or they just call it quits, there will never be a DT-MP reunion-- not for a show, a song, a special event, or even a moment. His time in the band was great and it's over. It's the MM-era now and there's no going back. If anything, the shoutout at the Beacon illustrated just how at-peace both DT and MP are with that.
I wouldn't be so sure. While I am not saying there will definitively be some sort of reunion, I can see them bringing some members back for a one-and-done show, similar to When Dream and Day Reunite.
I am positive. Trust me. MP is never coming back unless MM leaves or the band calls it a day and then some time down the road does a one-off. I could *MAYBE* see an exception for MP and MM to play on a song at the same time if they were both playing at the same festival, but that's it really. Even if MM had to take a temporary leave of absence, I wouldn't be shocked if MP didn't get the call to sub. The band isn't going to do anything to undermine their star drummer who has done everything and beyond what they've asked. What happened with WDADU was how many years after the album came out?
What happened at the Beacon was 2 grown men, softened by time, burying the hatchet and making amends. Good for them. In no way was it a preview or hint of something to come down the road in their professional lives.
Editing this because I just thought of another hypothetical exception: MM goes to MP and asks him if he wants to sit in on a song and then goes to the band to propose the idea. But again, no chance in hell JP or JR are going up to MM out of the blue and asking him to sit out for a song so MP can play (thus summoning the calls of the MP loyalists for a member change when the majority of the fanbase is settled on the current lineup).
-
I am positive. Trust me. MP is never coming back unless MM leaves or the band calls it a day and then some time down the road does a one-off. I could *MAYBE* see an exception for MP and MM to play on a song at the same time if they were both playing at the same festival, but that's it really. Even if MM had to take a temporary leave of absence, I wouldn't be shocked if MP didn't get the call to sub. The band isn't going to do anything to undermine their star drummer who has done everything and beyond what they've asked. What happened with WDADU was how many years after the album came out?
Never say never. The WDaDR show happened a little over 5 years after DS had gotten the boot and he was welcomed back. And let's not forget that nobody - including the band and MP himself - ever expected there to be a change in drummer on August 29, 2010 or before. So unexpected things happen that can have a major effect on the band. Not that I'm expecting MP to return. But as long as DT exists and MP is alive, there is always a chance, however minuscule it may be.
-
The Boston show is on Dime!
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=726251
It's a Favre4 capture so you know it's good.
After all these years, I still have never figured out Dime. I may have to get it together for this one.
-
What happened at the Beacon was 2 grown men, softened by time, burying the hatchet and making amends. Good for them. In no way was it a preview or hint of something to come down the road in their professional lives.
Exactly. I found a bit out of taste the inevitable comments about a possible reunion, under those FB posts... I mean, I get it, a fan daydreams and "you give him a finger and they take all the arm" (a way of saying in Italy), but just let two adult grown men who fell out with each other have finally a moment to remember their friendships without pestering them about playing together.
-
Scotty, were you there?
-
The Boston show is on Dime!
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=726251
It's a Favre4 capture so you know it's good.
After all these years, I still have never figured out Dime. I may have to get it together for this one.
If I can figure it out, you have no excuse. :P
-
The Boston show is on Dime!
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=726251
It's a Favre4 capture so you know it's good.
After all these years, I still have never figured out Dime. I may have to get it together for this one.
The same recording: https://www.guitars101.com/threads/dream-theater-2022-02-25-boston-ma-flac-aud-farve4-master.774925/#post-3669293
-
I am positive. Trust me. MP is never coming back unless MM leaves or the band calls it a day and then some time down the road does a one-off. I could *MAYBE* see an exception for MP and MM to play on a song at the same time if they were both playing at the same festival, but that's it really. Even if MM had to take a temporary leave of absence, I wouldn't be shocked if MP didn't get the call to sub. The band isn't going to do anything to undermine their star drummer who has done everything and beyond what they've asked. What happened with WDADU was how many years after the album came out?
Never say never. The WDaDR show happened a little over 5 years after DS had gotten the boot and he was welcomed back. And let's not forget that nobody - including the band and MP himself - ever expected there to be a change in drummer on August 29, 2010 or before. So unexpected things happen that can have a major effect on the band. Not that I'm expecting MP to return. But as long as DT exists and MP is alive, there is always a chance, however minuscule it may be.
I agree, never say never - but I also agree with TheBarstoolWarrior, in that I think they will go out of their way to make sure to NEVER undermine MM. So it would have to be of MM's making, or some other extenuating circumstance is the way I see it.
-
Spoilers ahead
Saw the Philly show last night. Really, really nice! I had never been to The Met. Beautiful venue, really nice ,welcoming theater ushers etc which set the evening off on a great vibe for me. People being nice is.....nice.
Settled into great seats, 10th row JP's side. Arch Echo was good. It seemed like they all went to performing arts school or something the way they smiled the whole time and their movement around the stage. They were technically very good, but being all instrumental, it got a bit "widdle-ey" for me. Over all they were solid and very talented though. Apparently their drummer was absent for a few days having(his wife having😁😁)his first child. The guy that played drums was REALLY good and it was amazing that he was just a temp. I'm guessing that since the tour had been postponed they had time to find a guy and have him learn all their technical music for the drummers planned abscense. Very impressive.
Dream Theater's stage was really cool and sparse. The only visible equipment on stage was MM's kit and JR's keys, 2 mic stands and JP's diamond plate "get a leg up" shredding boxes. It was cool to see MM's small kit after seeing his monster set last tour. I really liked the separate hanging video screens surrounding the all white stage and risers. There was riser to the right of the drums that JP used for soloing that had another set of his guitar pedals. Great light show as well, really great stage production.
The sound was very good and having seen DT 15 or so times previously, i loved the set list on this tour. For me JP stole the show. He is so good, so cool and always has such a positive up beat vibe. When he was up on his soloing riser he was SO entertaining. He ran around the stage a lot also. As usual, I loved the times when he and JMX played face to face ala Ged and Alex.
My only WTF moments were JLB's kinda weird and awkward stage banter and his sigmond and the sea monster motions he was making as he rocked out back by the drum riser. I guess he thought it looked cool.....!
All in all a fantastic evening. Next up is TA back at my neighborhood Keswick. So nice to be able to go out and rock again!
-
The Boston show is on Dime!
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=726251
It's a Favre4 capture so you know it's good.
After all these years, I still have never figured out Dime. I may have to get it together for this one.
If I can figure it out, you have no excuse. :P
Haha, God that's so true :lol
EDIT: and thanks to Devieira, I don't have to figure DIME for another year or so!
-
You’re welcome. I also get in trouble with Dime! :D
-
Going to the show at Hard Rock in Orlando on the 15th .. I have checked out a few vids and setlists ….
Looks like they’re not playing Answering the Call …one of my faves from the new album ….damn !
-
Going to the show at Hard Rock in Orlando on the 15th .. I have checked out a few vids and setlists ….
Looks like they’re not playing Answering the Call …one of my faves from the new album ….damn !
If they're playing Answering the Call and/or Sleeping Giant on the next leg, I'll be traveling to see them again. I'll probably travel to see them again anyway but I'd love to see those two in particular. :metal
-
Gotta say that seeing a pic of MP in the audience at the NYC DT show was very awkward, bizarre and maybe a little sad. I guess it just proves that he's finally come to terms with it. It could not have been easy.
-
Quoting this from the CT concert thread to bring more exposure...
Speaking of sound(s), does anyone know what the box is on James' mic stand? I know there was this thing-y that He flipped down after The Alien, I assume that was something to do with the effects, but there's a black box about halfway down the mic stand, and I'm curious what that's about.
I took this picture last night, maybe someone knows what this is?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNgEgS5WYAU5HKA?format=jpg&name=large)
anyway, here are some more pics from last night:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNgEgdLX0AES5P-?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNgEgnTWQAIORbn?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNgEgxNWUAcrq1m?format=jpg&name=large)
as for the two shows I saw... really great concerts! Thought the live sound was pretty good both nights. CT was from the last row, NJ was from the front row. Up front I would say Myung was a bit louder in the mix, but no complaints from that. I didn't notice any of the piping in vocals in CT, but they were much more noticeable in NJ. It didn't really take away from my enjoyment, just actually noticed it at one show and not at the other. Could be a few things like my location or the venue's sound/mix for that evening.
The setlist is interesting, but works pretty well. Ministry is not a very popular DT song, but kind of works in that near end of show spot. I love how they didn't play anything from Scenes or I&W as those have gotten the spotlight recently. The new songs are pretty good live. Awaken the Master is not one of my favorites from the new album, but it's pretty strong live. I feel like About to Crash got a good pop from the crowd both nights. Solid pick from the back catalog.
Being up close, I got to make a lot of eye contact with the guys and feel some of the vibe. Other than JM, the band really seemed to be into the show. JP was constantly coming over by me shredding in my face. JLB pointed at us (myself and the guy next to me who was rocking out hard) a few times and put the mic near us for the WHOAS at the end of the Count (which btw is an excellent encore closer). I noticed a lot of JR and MM interaction, usually with smiles and laughs like they were joking with each other. JR when he came up with the keytar was probably the highlight, that instrumental section of Endless is one of the best moments on ToT and seeing that right in my front of me was face melting. I could have played his keys!
All in all, another awesome double DT concert experience (I usually try to see them twice each tour). Not sure how this compares to the others, but being up front definitely makes it special.
Also, no ushers at either show! Maybe they've cooled down on this and everyone was standing up front for both shows. This is how rock concerts should be (IMO). :yarr :yarr
-
James's thing looks decorative (like the circular green glass thing at the top). He's certainly not triggering effects or the...ummm...auxiliary vocals or controlling the monitor mix.
-
James's thing looks decorative (like the circular green glass thing at the top). He's certainly not triggering effects or the...ummm...auxiliary vocals or controlling the monitor mix.
That's my thought, it's decorative. Even though it has some buttons on it, I noticed his hands near it but not pushing anything or using it while the vocal effects were happening. Possible I just missed it or it's not being used the way I would think though.
-
I'm 90%, maybe 89% sure that the "circle" thing-y on the arm at the top of the mic stand was flipped UP at the start of the show and during the first song, and was down for most of the rest of the set. I don't if that means anything or not, but...
Someone do one of those cameo thing-y's and ask him about his equipment. :)
-
The Boston show is on Dime!
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=726251
It's a Favre4 capture so you know it's good.
After all these years, I still have never figured out Dime. I may have to get it together for this one.
The same recording: https://www.guitars101.com/threads/dream-theater-2022-02-25-boston-ma-flac-aud-farve4-master.774925/#post-3669293
Thanks for the link! It was an amazing night and I love having a record of it. Listening now and it sounds better than I thought it would. It catches more of the ambiance and mix than the phone recordings.
-Tof
-
Quoting this from the CT concert thread to bring more exposure...
Speaking of sound(s), does anyone know what the box is on James' mic stand? I know there was this thing-y that He flipped down after The Alien, I assume that was something to do with the effects, but there's a black box about halfway down the mic stand, and I'm curious what that's about.
I took this picture last night, maybe someone knows what this is?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNgEgS5WYAU5HKA?format=jpg&name=large)
anyway, here are some more pics from last night:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNgEgdLX0AES5P-?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNgEgnTWQAIORbn?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNgEgxNWUAcrq1m?format=jpg&name=large)
as for the two shows I saw... really great concerts! Thought the live sound was pretty good both nights. CT was from the last row, NJ was from the front row. Up front I would say Myung was a bit louder in the mix, but no complaints from that. I didn't notice any of the piping in vocals in CT, but they were much more noticeable in NJ. It didn't really take away from my enjoyment, just actually noticed it at one show and not at the other. Could be a few things like my location or the venue's sound/mix for that evening.
The setlist is interesting, but works pretty well. Ministry is not a very popular DT song, but kind of works in that near end of show spot. I love how they didn't play anything from Scenes or I&W as those have gotten the spotlight recently. The new songs are pretty good live. Awaken the Master is not one of my favorites from the new album, but it's pretty strong live. I feel like About to Crash got a good pop from the crowd both nights. Solid pick from the back catalog.
Being up close, I got to make a lot of eye contact with the guys and feel some of the vibe. Other than JM, the band really seemed to be into the show. JP was constantly coming over by me shredding in my face. JLB pointed at us (myself and the guy next to me who was rocking out hard) a few times and put the mic near us for the WHOAS at the end of the Count (which btw is an excellent encore closer). I noticed a lot of JR and MM interaction, usually with smiles and laughs like they were joking with each other. JR when he came up with the keytar was probably the highlight, that instrumental section of Endless is one of the best moments on ToT and seeing that right in my front of me was face melting. I could have played his keys!
All in all, another awesome double DT concert experience (I usually try to see them twice each tour). Not sure how this compares to the others, but being up front definitely makes it special.
Also, no ushers at either show! Maybe they've cooled down on this and everyone was standing up front for both shows. This is how rock concerts should be (IMO). :yarr :yarr
I was in 7th row and I thought the sound sucked! Could barely hear JLB over all the distortion (maybe that's a good thing ;)). Anyway, other than the new songs which IMO REALLY did not translate very well live, the rest of the "JP with the rest of DT" show was really good. :metal I saw cramx in the first row at end of show as I walked up to the stage during TCOT (which was incredible). NICE seat! :tup
-
I think there's a sort of consensus that James is delivering, at least on this recent portion of the tour. I thought he was great in Connecticut.
-
I think there's a sort of consensus that James is delivering, at least on this recent portion of the tour. I thought he was great in Connecticut.
Kind of hard to say when you experience the show two different ways, but I'm leaning towards CT being the better sounding show between that and NJ. I know there were a couple small hiccups in the performance in CT, but overall thought both nights the band was spot on enough for me to not complain. I don't even want to see a flawless show. Give me JLB choking on water or Myung coming in a little early. No big deal, they are humans and how they recover is cool and interesting to me. I know last night something must have happened (I couldn't tell what) with MM's drums. A tech came out, checked something behind the kit, laid down behind it and checked something under, and then came in front of the kit and checked out the bass drum. All while the band was playing TCOT. I like seeing stuff like that personally, I couldn't tell what was even wrong then. MM making faces during it all was priceless though. Like his acknowledgment to us watching that yes something is wrong and what can you do, the show must go on!
-
I'm all for hiccups. I've told this story before: I took my kid to see Kiss in Hartford in 2014. During God Of Thunder, about halfway through the set, Gene starts to fly and gets stuck like four feet off the ground (it was funny). The roadies got him down, and he was clearly angry. He was yelling at the roadie, then as the song was winding down he went over to the side and was still barking at the crew. Then before the next song he came back out and walked over to Paul and said something to him, then to Tommy, and from then on, it was like a different band. Even my kid could tell; she said "dad, what happened; it was like a different band in the second half".
I love that stuff.
-
Yeah me too, but nothing I saw came close to any of that from DT :lol I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't truly enjoy MM's drum set completely breaking down mid song (and that's not against MM, that's just to see the spectacle and I have full faith the band would recover and it would be epic).
-
Also wanted to mention that the Alien was awesome live. I expected them to open with it, which they did, and it was pretty damn great. I think it moved up a spot in my DT15 rankings.
-
Also wanted to mention that the Alien was awesome live. I expected them to open with it, which they did, and it was pretty damn great. I think it moved up a spot in my DT15 rankings.
Absolutely. Being the first single, I thought I'd grow sick of it. But, it's one of my favorites on the album still and is even better live. The energy really kicks off the show right. It's nice seeing them go into 6:00 right after. It has a nice yin/yang, new/old, energetic/grooving dynamic of the two opening songs. Good stuff.
-Ant
-
Why IN HELL did they have to pipe in the “whoa o ooo” section at the end of TCOT? Is that really that difficult to sing? Pathetic.
-
Why IN HELL did they have to pipe in the “whoa o ooo” section at the end of TCOT? Is that really that difficult to sing? Pathetic.
They obviously didn't HAVE to do it. They thought it would add to the presentation, like all of the other parts they are reproducing.
-
Why IN HELL did they have to pipe in the “whoa o ooo” section at the end of TCOT? Is that really that difficult to sing? Pathetic.
They obviously didn't HAVE to do it. They thought it would add to the presentation, like all of the other parts they are reproducing.
Unfortunately this is the answer.
-
Why IN HELL did they have to pipe in the “whoa o ooo” section at the end of TCOT? Is that really that difficult to sing? Pathetic.
They obviously didn't HAVE to do it. They thought it would add to the presentation, like all of the other parts they are reproducing.
Unfortunately this is the answer.
They've fully embraced the music and show presentation to closely match the album. So, I'm not really bothered by it because everything is rehearsed that way. It's not a lazy move, but more calculated. I view it similarly to how I see JP's pedal effect at the beginning of TCOT. He plays the opening passage then lets it repeat while he solos over it. It's not a perfect comparison because he plays it live first, but that's how I see it. Another reason why it doesn't bother me is because I care about the vocals last. I can absolutely understand how it bothers people though. There's a creative opportunity missed when album elements are piped in that could make the live experience more unique. I wouldn't be surprised if they address it in a post-tour fan interview down the line. They seem to address most fan critiques at one point or another.
-Tof
-
I view it similarly to how I see JP's pedal effect at the beginning of TCOT. He plays the opening passage then lets it repeat while he solos over it. It's not a perfect comparison because he plays it live first, but that's how I see it.
Except he doesn't. That opening guitar line is pre-recorded, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKfZXxlc6j4
Sorry, I'm with Tim. Relying on a bunch of pre-recorded stuff when it *can* be pulled off live is lame.
I can absolutely understand how it bothers people though. There's a creative opportunity missed when album elements are piped in that could make the live experience more unique. I wouldn't be surprised if they address it in a post-tour fan interview down the line. They seem to address most fan critiques at one point or another.
I wish they would, but this and playing to a click have become their MO ever since MP left, so I highly doubt they're gonna change now. This is hardly the first tour where these issues have been brought up and they haven't been addressed up until now, so the chances of it happening on a future are next to nil.
-
I view it similarly to how I see JP's pedal effect at the beginning of TCOT. He plays the opening passage then lets it repeat while he solos over it. It's not a perfect comparison because he plays it live first, but that's how I see it.
Except he doesn't. That opening guitar line is pre-recorded, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKfZXxlc6j4
I was going to say, I didn't think it was a loop either. I've seen some pretty cool stuff done live with loopers though, but it still feels kinda weird to me.
-
I just looked at some live DT videos from 2009-2010, and it looks like the opening of TCOT was just played over the speakers and not live back then as well, so I think it's always been that way. Honestly, I always thought it was JR who played it on his keys and then JP joined in with the solo on top, but I guess it's all pre-recorded and played on tape.
-Marc.
-
I get that people would prefer that everything be live, but I find it kind of pathetic that people complain about stuff like that since, as you point out, Marc, it is nothing new. And it was old, well established habit going way back farther than that. To cite a couple of examples, I don't think they ever played the Six Degrees overture live. And to go back even farther than that, I don't think they played the Metropolis intro live after Images came out either. If people want something to complain about, I would find something else, as this particular ship sailed a LONG time ago.
-
The opened the Awake tour with Pull Me Under and the first 40-50 seconds was from the album. I actually thought that was a bad ass way to open the show. The stage is dark and the band comes on stage during the opening and then the lights come up and they all blast into playing live at the same time.
-
I'm so disappointed they never performed any of the NOMAC tracks live either.
-
So how far would DT have to go with overdubs and lip-syncing to have it bother some of you?!? Milli Vanilli territory?
-
So how far would DT have to go with overdubs and lip-syncing to have it bother some of you?!? Milli Vanilli territory?
Well you can still hear JLBs vocals live. As is the same with pop artists. You can still hear their live vocals, but certain melody lines are piped in.
But it does not bother me.
What I enjoy is live music and I enjoy when pop artists bring a live band with them. The same with rap shows bringing a live band. I have seen Snoop Dogg with a live band and with a DJ and the live band makes a ton of difference. I wish that rap artists could afford to tour with a live band.
I would rather see a live band playing the music, but I still go see a rap show with just the DJ and a rapper. The same way I would also like to see a Trance/Electronic artists with live vocals over piped in vocals because the artist could not be there. But I'll still go see the artist as the DJ performing the music crossfades and all that is what I am at that performance for.
It is also interesting watching JPs behind his rig video he posted on Facebook. Which he mentions how his new toy makes it able to simulate the effect of two guitars being played, since the studio has double tracked guitars to fill out the sound and he wants to replicate that live.
-
So how far would DT have to go with overdubs and lip-syncing to have it bother some of you?!? Milli Vanilli territory?
There are so many miles in between what they’re doing and Milli Vanilli. This is ridiculous.
-
There is a huge difference between “playing along with” and “miming”. I have zero cares that there are taped portions IF the band is still performing. I saw Petrucci from 15 feet away and I’m reasonably sure when he was fretting a note, I was hearing it in real time. I’m good with that. I don’t need them to tour with 10 musicians (like the Zep cover band “Get The Led Out”) to recreate everything live. When there’s no part of THEM playing, I’m probably out.
-
So how far would DT have to go with overdubs and lip-syncing to have it bother some of you?!? Milli Vanilli territory?
If they are adding extra stuff that's on the album but they can't humanly recreate without growing an extra pair of arms, I'm fine with.
If they start completely lip-syncing or just miming stuff, then it definitely bothers me, as does the current "situation" with JLB and those lines on BITS. That should not happen. (and the talk about that has been getting censored on the official DT FB group as well)
-
I get that people would prefer that everything be live, but I find it kind of pathetic that people complain about stuff like that since, as you point out, Marc, it is nothing new. And it was old, well established habit going way back farther than that. To cite a couple of examples, I don't think they ever played the Six Degrees overture live. And to go back even farther than that, I don't think they played the Metropolis intro live after Images came out either. If people want something to complain about, I would find something else, as this particular ship sailed a LONG time ago.
They have actually only physically played the Metropolis Pt. 1 intro one time, at the SCORE show. Every other time, it's the pre-recorded/from the album intro.
-
I get that people would prefer that everything be live, but I find it kind of pathetic that people complain about stuff like that since, as you point out, Marc, it is nothing new. And it was old, well established habit going way back farther than that. To cite a couple of examples, I don't think they ever played the Six Degrees overture live. And to go back even farther than that, I don't think they played the Metropolis intro live after Images came out either. If people want something to complain about, I would find something else, as this particular ship sailed a LONG time ago.
They have actually only physically played the Metropolis Pt. 1 intro one time, at the SCORE show. Every other time, it's the pre-recorded/from the album intro.
What the hell are they thinking!?
-
So how far would DT have to go with overdubs and lip-syncing to have it bother some of you?!? Milli Vanilli territory?
If they are adding extra stuff that's on the album but they can't humanly recreate without growing an extra pair of arms, I'm fine with.
If they start completely lip-syncing or just miming stuff, then it definitely bothers me, as does the current "situation" with JLB and those lines on BITS. That should not happen. (and the talk about that has been getting censored on the official DT FB group as well)
I'm curious as to whose idea it was. Do you think James approached JP and said "Hey as you know I struggle mightily live. Let's just pick a random section of a song that I will lip-sync to. Maybe part of the chorus of The Count? Funny choice I know since I plan on singing 6:00 for real. What else. Oh how about piping in the Whoa-oh-oh section of The Count also". Or is some of this JP's idea?
Funny thing is that James is already getting a 10-minute break during each song. I have used hyperbole I know but I hate seeing bands I love crap on their legacy.
-
If they are adding extra stuff that's on the album but they can't humanly recreate without growing an extra pair of arms, I'm fine with.
Umm, wait.....they don't have extra arms??? :rollin
-
So how far would DT have to go with overdubs and lip-syncing to have it bother some of you?!? Milli Vanilli territory?
Precisely 21.7%
There are so many miles in between what they’re doing and Milli Vanilli. This is ridiculous.
Thank you.
BTW, I don't think anyone has mentioned JLB's performances of Bridges in the Sky 10 years ago. Sure there was no backing track for the section but he also would "cheat" it by cutting himself off and yelling, "sing it!"
At the time I just thought it was frontman stuff even though that section doesn't really lend itself to a huge audience singalong. Now I realize he was doing that to give himself an extra half-a-second to get some extra breath. It's now apparent that it was challenging then and he's a decade older now.
If it comes down them cutting that song all together or using a vocal track for a grand total of 20 seconds for the entire song, then keep the fucking song!
I remember when they first started using backing tracks and someone on this board proclaimed they are no longer a live band...because a fraction of a fraction of a percent of their performance was canned. Now they indisputably are canning more of their performance but it is still a fraction of a percent. I typically don't like the argument, "If you don't like it don't listen to it" because I feel there should be more room for nuance and constructive destruction, but some of the comments here really have me wondering why people care so much.
Nobody is forcing them to listen. I almost skipped this tour for unrelated reason but also partially because I no longer feel, "Holy shit I have to see DT. I can't miss a single show in my area!"
Maybe just don't go to shows if it bothers you so much. Possibly think about using your time to discuss things you like as opposed to dislike.
-
So again I ask, how far does it go before it starts to bother you? Lip-syncing entire songs from I&W? Still wish they would just tune down or something but ok I will shut up now since I’m in the minority of wanting a rock band to perform live. Oh but as an addendum there is no need to pipe in Portnoy’s vocals by the way. Are they still doing that? A guy that hasn’t been in the band in 12 years :facepalm:. Maybe Petrucci Rudess and Myung could work on their vocal harmonies.
-
So again I ask, how far does it go before it starts to bother you? Lip-syncing entire songs from I&W?
Again I answer: 21.7% of their performance can be canned and not a tenth of a percent more.
You say you want a band to perform live and imply because they have backing vocals, a click track, and the two lines where James sings along to a full volume vocal track they are not live. You are wrong. That's the only way to frame your argument. You're wrong. You may not be comfortable with it but that does not make them a live band.
They played to a click and used canned backing vocals for Prophets of War and by your definition they would not be considered a live band then? Or only on the nights they played it?
Sorry. Your argument is ridiculous. Your opinion that it's too much is perfectly fine and warranted but to imply they are no longer a live band is something else.
-
It's embarrassing :facepalm: and terrible :loser: for a band of their caliber. GO GET ANOTHER SINGER! :metal
-
I don't think they ever played the Six Degrees overture live. And to go back even farther than that, I don't think they played the Metropolis intro live after Images came out either. If people want something to complain about, I would find something else, as this particular ship sailed a LONG time ago.
I think the difference between using taped intros for some songs - especially in the case of Metropolis, PMU or The Crimson Sunrise - is that this was done to build anticipation and excitement in the audience and for the band to start off with a bang.
OTOH, canned backing vocals were something that were never used during the MP-era. In fact, it was only beginning with the Fix for 96 shows that the band started doing backing vocals. So theoretically, before then would have been the optimum time to use the canned vocals, and yet they didn't. So to see them resort to doing it now is a bone of contention.
So how far would DT have to go with overdubs and lip-syncing to have it bother some of you?!? Milli Vanilli territory?
There are so many miles in between what they’re doing and Milli Vanilli. This is ridiculous.
I'll agree with you there. Hyperbole is not going to help you make your point Dream Team.
They have actually only physically played the Metropolis Pt. 1 intro one time, at the SCORE show. Every other time, it's the pre-recorded/from the album intro.
For the record, that is wrong Hef. There have been other times where they did perform the intro, although very few in number.
Now they indisputably are canning more of their performance but it is still a fraction of a percent. I typically don't like the argument, "If you don't like it don't listen to it" because I feel there should be more room for nuance and constructive destruction, but some of the comments here really have me wondering why people care so much.
Dunno how much of your comment is directed at me, but I'll just respond personally by saying that it's because they are my favorite band (even with MP gone), and for the most part I still enjoy their more recent albums - especially the latest two - but it's disappointing and frustrating to see what the band is turning into in the live setting, given what they used to be beforehand.
If it comes down them cutting that song all together or using a vocal track for a grand total of 20 seconds for the entire song, then keep the fucking song!
Sorry - gotta disagree with you here. If downtuning or shortening the final note of "take my haaaaaannnnnd" are not options (assuming that's the reason why they're having JL lip sync the previous lines), then pick a different song! Given the massive catalog that they have, they have an overabundance of other tracks they could pick from to play so that lip syncing to a lead vocal would not be necessary. Quite frankly, I'm surprised they didn't include an instrumental in the setlist in part just to give JL a rest.
-
Sorry - gotta disagree with you here. If downtuning or shortening the final note of "take my haaaaaannnnnd" are not options (assuming that's the reason why they're having JL lip sync the previous lines), then pick a different song! Given the massive catalog that they have, they have an overabundance of other tracks they could pick from to play so that lip syncing to a lead vocal would not be necessary. Quite frankly, I'm surprised they didn't include an instrumental in the setlist in part just to give JL a rest.
I think this is where I stand as well. This wasn’t a situation where they were in the middle of the tour and discovered James was having trouble singing one of the songs in the setlist, so they recorded some lead vocals just to get him through the song each night until the end of the tour. Instead, they consciously made a decision to do this and recorded these vocals before the start of the tour. I feel it would’ve been a much better decision to just pick a song like Outcry, Lost Not Forgotten, or OTBOA where it would’ve been easier for James to sing the line, and therefore not have a need for having piped in lead vocals. I get why people may not think its a big deal, but for me it is disappointing seeing one of your favorite bands/singers out there singing along to prerecorded lead vocals - especially when it really isn’t even necessary.
-
It's embarrassing :facepalm: and terrible :loser: for a band of their caliber. GO GET ANOTHER SINGER! :metal
Wow, after 30 years and 14 albums, the solution is to just can 'the voice' of the band? :-\
Look, I don't mean to single you out, but as the years go by, 'this' particular kind of post never ceases to amaze me.
In an effort to keep this conversation productive, I would like to ask you (and anyone else who shares this opinion), let's assume they 'go get another singer,' what happens next?
Do they get a known name, like Russell Allen? Let's say they do, do you think this leads to chart success? A multi-platinum album? A sold-out world tour? Many bands have gone this route, and few have managed to acquire anything other than diminshed returns.
But then, I will ask you this: what happens when the 'new' guy starts to have issues? (Cue Steve Augeri)
Case in point: Todd LaTorre was hailed by many as a savior when he joined Queensryche, but as soon as the tour-dates started to mount, he began to show signs of wear and tear live. Subtle at first, but as time has gone on, this chatter has grown. Obviously, it's not a huge deal, and Todd still sounds great live, but given the recent upturn in quality from Tate's live performances, you'd have a hard time convincing me that Geoff wouldn't be able to slide right back in and reassume his position in the band.
My point with all of this is, it's easy to say 'fire that guy,' but the litany of questions that would follow are way more difficult to answer.
My opinion is this: for a band of their caliber, and more importantly, for a band of their age, I'm willing to afford James (along with everyone else) a little bit of grace when judging what I see. No different than I did with Geddy, or Ozzy, or Dio, or even Bruce. And in all of those cases, I'd much rather see the original as opposed to young-gun hire.
But, if you still feel like James needs to be replaced, I'm sure there's a local band in your area nailing DT covers as we speak.
-
James is irreplaceable.
-
It's embarrassing :facepalm: and terrible :loser: for a band of their caliber. GO GET ANOTHER SINGER! :metal
Wow, after 30 years and 14 albums, the solution is to just can 'the voice' of the band? :-\
Look, I don't mean to single you out, but as the years go by, 'this' particular kind of post never ceases to amaze me.
Agreed, that's a poor take IMO.
James is irreplaceable.
Yes and no. I think they could replace him, but I don't think it makes much sense unless JLB himself wants out. JLB is the voice of DT.
-
I wouldn’t want them to replace James. They just need to be a bit more careful with planning the live shows to set James up for success. Maybe downtune a few songs, alter some vocal melodies, cut out a tough vocal section like they used to do with Take the Time or Voices, or throw in an instrumental to give James a break. However, piping in lead vocals is not the answer(to me anyway - to some people it doesn’t seem to matter that much)
Just to add, I think they have actually done a pretty good job with tailoring the setlists to make it easier for James - however, there are still a few songs they’ve ve played where it seems like they’re being a bit too optimistic about James being able to handle singing those songs night in and night out.
-
James is irreplaceable.
T H I S .
-
It's embarrassing :facepalm: and terrible :loser: for a band of their caliber. GO GET ANOTHER SINGER! :metal
Wow, after 30 years and 14 albums, the solution is to just can 'the voice' of the band? :-\
Look, I don't mean to single you out, but as the years go by, 'this' particular kind of post never ceases to amaze me.
In an effort to keep this conversation productive, I would like to ask you (and anyone else who shares this opinion), let's assume they 'go get another singer,' what happens next?
Do they get a known name, like Russell Allen? Let's say they do, do you think this leads to chart success? A multi-platinum album? A sold-out world tour? Many bands have gone this route, and few have managed to acquire anything other than diminshed returns.
Also, let's hear Russell sing Pull Me Under. I guarantee it's not going to sound how a lot of the JLB haters think it will. A lot of the "Get Russell in the band!" voices have died out over the years but I would bet you if that ever happened, no matter how good his performances are, you're going to have 90% of the fanbase saying they should get James back. And even if Russell sounded great at first (which I doubt he would), I doubt he could do a DT catalog justice, night after night.
-
Not trying to keep the thread going in that direction, but there's a lot of other people who actually could do the DT catalog justice and better than Russell (and present day James). Just ask Arjen Lucassen and he can come up with the ultimate vocalist options list for DT :P :lol
-
Not trying to keep the thread going in that direction, but there's a lot of other people who actually could do the DT catalog justice and better than Russell (and present day James). Just ask Arjen Lucassen and he can come up with the ultimate vocalist options list for DT :P :lol
Sure, but I think the point that I (and many others) are trying to make is that when you make that proverbial change, you no longer have DT. No different than how a large portion of fans felt about VH with a 'better' but different vocalist (Hagar).
It's this whole idea of franchising...you could replace Paul Stanley with a younger, better, more capable vocalist, and tour for another twenty years, but I have no interest in seeing that band.
-
They have actually only physically played the Metropolis Pt. 1 intro one time, at the SCORE show. Every other time, it's the pre-recorded/from the album intro.
For the record, that is wrong Hef. There have been other times where they did perform the intro, although very few in number.
BLASPHEMY
-
Not trying to keep the thread going in that direction, but there's a lot of other people who actually could do the DT catalog justice and better than Russell (and present day James). Just ask Arjen Lucassen and he can come up with the ultimate vocalist options list for DT :P :lol
Sure, but I think the point that I (and many others) are trying to make is that when you make that proverbial change, you no longer have DT. No different than how a large portion of fans felt about VH with a 'better' but different vocalist (Hagar).
It's this whole idea of franchising...you could replace Paul Stanley with a younger, better, more capable vocalist, and tour for another twenty years, but I have no interest in seeing that band.
This is an interesting concept. In 1991, Yes released a video called YesYears. It was sort of a combination of the band's history and a chronicle of the Union tour. There was a bit where Rick Wakeman was talking about Yes still being around in 50 or 100 years. He likened it to an orchestra where the members are constantly changing. Of course, it's a very imperfect analogy, but it's still an interesting concept in theory, and it's particularly relevant to a band like KISS that performs more as characters than individual. If I understand correctly, I think this is something like what the band Ghost does.
-
They have actually only physically played the Metropolis Pt. 1 intro one time, at the SCORE show. Every other time, it's the pre-recorded/from the album intro.
For the record, that is wrong Hef. There have been other times where they did perform the intro, although very few in number.
BLASPHEMY
https://youtu.be/eAVa6t1c4Eo?t=273
https://youtu.be/6tGmYdtlu-Y?t=5792
:-*
-
Do they get a known name, like Russell Allen? Let's say they do, do you think this leads to chart success? A multi-platinum album? A sold-out world tour? Many bands have gone this route, and few have managed to acquire anything other than diminshed returns.
But then, I will ask you this: what happens when the 'new' guy starts to have issues? (Cue Steve Augeri)
Case in point: Todd LaTorre was hailed by many as a savior when he joined Queensryche, but as soon as the tour-dates started to mount, he began to show signs of wear and tear live. Subtle at first, but as time has gone on, this chatter has grown. Obviously, it's not a huge deal, and Todd still sounds great live, but given the recent upturn in quality from Tate's live performances, you'd have a hard time convincing me that Geoff wouldn't be able to slide right back in and reassume his position in the band.
My point with all of this is, it's easy to say 'fire that guy,' but the litany of questions that would follow are way more difficult to answer.
Obviously this is all completely hypothetical and I don't foresee it happening, but if it were to happen, I imagine that they would probably do something similar to what they did to replace MP: audition mostly well known, well established vocalists. Besides making sure that the vocal style would be what they wanted and knew would fit for their catalog of material, as well as the right type of personality, I'm sure that a big consideration would be the person's track record in performing live. So I doubt they would end up in a situation like what has happened with QR. After all, in that case, TLT was not established as a vocalist, but more as a drummer, and even that was limited. Yeah he might have been the vocalist for Crimson Glory, but I don't think they even did any live shows with TLT, and if they did, it was probably only a handful. I get the impression that the guys in DT (particularly JP) are way more business savvy than the guys in QR, so the chances of them falling into a similar trap would be pretty unlikely.
Sure, but I think the point that I (and many others) are trying to make is that when you make that proverbial change, you no longer have DT. No different than how a large portion of fans felt about VH with a 'better' but different vocalist (Hagar).
It's this whole idea of franchising...you could replace Paul Stanley with a younger, better, more capable vocalist, and tour for another twenty years, but I have no interest in seeing that band.
For argument's sake, I realize that it's only one album, but WDaDU *does* exist and definitely *is* DT. Likewise, before Sept 2010, you would have had the vast majority of the fan base say that if MP were to leave DT, "you no longer have DT" and yet here we are over 11 years later. Sure you can argue that JL's voice is more distinctive than MP's drumming, and I wouldn't argue that, but I would argue that MP was probably more the face of the band than JL or maybe even JP, given the prominent role that he had within the band and the fact that DT draws more of a musician-type fan base than the average band. If they were to replace JL, there's no doubt there would be a certain subset of the fan base that would lose interest in DT, but I'd wager that the band would still manage to continue on and perhaps even gain other fans, especially if the vocalist is already well known, respected and had their own fan base. It happened with an extremely popular member of the band already, so it's not hard to imagine it happening again if it ever came to that.
-
Now they indisputably are canning more of their performance but it is still a fraction of a percent. I typically don't like the argument, "If you don't like it don't listen to it" because I feel there should be more room for nuance and constructive destruction, but some of the comments here really have me wondering why people care so much.
Dunno how much of your comment is directed at me, but I'll just respond personally by saying that it's because they are my favorite band (even with MP gone), and for the most part I still enjoy their more recent albums - especially the latest two - but it's disappointing and frustrating to see what the band is turning into in the live setting, given what they used to be beforehand.
Sorry for barging in late, but I feel like people are talking past each other in these discussions precisely because we don't acknowledge what in Dream Theater's fraction of a percent of the show not being live is bothersome. Yes, this isn't anything new for Dream Theater, and yes, if they don't have four hands and two singers to replicate the lines exactly as they are on the album, a part of it has to come off the tape... if they want to play things exactly as they are on the album. And that part bothers me.
On the instrumental side, the fact that it's just a few parts that they could work around if they wanted to but choose not to, it grinds my fucking pepper. That's the part someone else will call unimportant or irrelevant, but I just don't understand why they do it, and yes I've heard John Petrucci explaining how he envisions the shows now. He can go on explaining until his open jar of beard wax turns to stone, I still don't agree. To take TCOT for an example, they're not saving themselves any workload either by using the tape, it just sounds less cool in both theory and practice, it doesn't have the same kind of dramatic effect as the band coming in after the Metropolis intro. All they're doing is "hey, look how cool a Dream Theater intro sounds with more than one guitar!" and it would sound exactly as cool with a keyboard. An iPad gadget, a looper, idk, something.
Same goes for vocals. Yes, of course bands that record harmonies by the lead singer on the albums also use backing tapes, but running through my mental list, most of the ones I listen to use them sparingly, for maybe just the chorus or an important bridge or last chorus, and there is also always at least one person trying their darnedest to be heard next to the tape at some point. In Dream Theater, vocal harmonies are not as important, so why do I feel like I'm hearing every single line that is doubled on the albums coming off the tape live as well? That's more of a rhetorical question now, they're there because James actually needs the support now, but if it's that important, other people in the band that also have a mouth and decent-to-perfect pitch can try and support James too.
Idk guys, being musically challenged comes in different forms, and while it's true that people come to Dream Theater shows to see the instrumentalists play some badass stuff and not to hear JP singing backing vocals, having Dream Theater turn into a band that can play 99% of the album live is just... I already know they can do that. I want to see what they do with the 1% (and on the vocal side, more than the 1%) that they can't play live, as unimportant and miniscule as it is to others, that's still what I want to see. The View tour is awesome because any assortment of people playing Dream Theater music is awesome, including Dream Theater themselves, no one is taking that for granted here. But imagine them actually going beyond that, like they used to. If it's challenging to do that and still deliver a consistent show, well, why not do that challenge?
-
There is one singer that I can see doing these Dream Theater songs justice, that person is Mike Mills.
He has a big range and the only thing to consider from him would be the touring and the effect it would have on his vocals in the long run.
Dream Theater songs are not easy to sing and it's why I give JLB props for going out and singing these complex songs as much as he does. It's also why I do not give him flack because he is out there night after night singing away.
I find it comical how people are complaining about one small section of a song and saying things like, "They should play another song."
For reason unknown to us, they decided to do it. Even at that, they have no obligation to tell us fans why. They could, but then people won't be satisfied with the response and will still continue bashing the band.
It's not like the situation with Prophets of War and MP not wanting to do his spoken word parts or the high range vocals and instead had his vocals piped in. Knowing how MP was adamant about backing vocals live, I was surprised he did that and chose not to perform those vocals harmony parts live. It's likely he didn't want to strain his voice from even doing those high parts. But seeing as he was also one that wanted to play every song at least once, he compromised his live vocals to piped in vocals to play Prophets of War.
I for one see no harm in the compromise of one line of vocals in a 10 minute song to help JLB rest and gain breathe to sustain the last note for as long as he does.
-
James is irreplaceable.
Some of the most legendary front-men in Rock history have proven to be replaceable. Some of the most legendary drummers too.
-
Also, I am barely following this but the problem here is that they played a recorded version of the Count piezo/clean guitar intro and who-a vocal part at the end? Seems fairly immaterial in the context of the whole show, no?
-
Also, I am barely following this but the problem here is that they played a recorded version of the Count piezo/clean guitar intro and who-a vocal part at the end? Seems fairly immaterial in the context of the whole show, no?
Correct. But not to some.
-
If this is because approximately 20 seconds of music in a 2 hour show wasn't 100% live, I think people need to let it go. I would understand if JP faked a guitar solo or JLB lip synched an entire song or even a chorus.
Also I think the last 2 measures or so of the Count intro are not in the prior bars, so I don't think the intro is something a loop could cover at 100%.
-
If this is because approximately 20 seconds of music in a 2 hour show wasn't 100% live, I think people need to let it go. I would understand if JP faked a guitar solo or JLB lip synched an entire song or even a chorus.
Also I think the last 2 measures or so of the Count intro are not in the prior bars, so I don't think the intro is something a loop could cover at 100%.
Gonna say this again for the people in the back
-
To be fair, these kinds of comments, at least for the current tour, started happening when it became evident that James was relying heavily (to put it nicely) on the backing track for the "and at last the time has come" section from BITS. Even worse, he seems to be purposefully turning away from the crowd for these sections so that no one notices this, but they did. Multiple fan-recorded videos from different angles and different shows/dates confirm that.
Now, speaking only for myself, I have no problem with them using backing tracks to enhance their live performance for stuff that they can't recreate live all at once. But when it turns into what I just talked about, it becomes a real problem, for me at least.
It's not that "20 seconds of music in a 2 hour show wasn't 100% live", it's that they're actively trying to trick the audience into believing something is happening that in reality isn't. Also, when does it stop? Now it could be 20 seconds, but later it could turn into "it's only 1 song out of 10, relax guys". I'd say there's lines a band like this shouldn't cross, and one of those is lip syncing any part of their performance.
Still love DT like no other band, btw :tup
-
Even worse, he seems to be purposefully turning away from the crowd for these sections so that no one notices this, but they did.
That's a stretch. He's turned sideways, not away (at least at the show I was at and the first video I saw). And what would "turning away" supposedly accomplish? If he is "faking it" instead of singing as a few people have said, why bother turning away if he is moving his mouth as if singing and isn't actually singing? That makes no sense.
-
My opionion is. This is really nitpicky. I noticed something, but whatever. The show is great and I had a blast. Twice. Third coming on Friday. Sheesh.
-
Practically, I think we’re more mad that it’s done in a way designed to deceive us into not realising it’s happening.
I’m actually fine with the fact that he’s using the track. If it leads to him not shying away from the moment after this with the “big note” of the song, then fine.
But it’s the way that James is trying to turn as if to not show it off. Keep moving, performing, anything other than planting yourself in an odd spot that kinda gives it away.
For Petrucci using the tape underneath the solo in Tuscany, he”s been doing that since the first time they performed the song. I’m cool with it, it’s just part of the song. But, it would be cool if Jordan got to p,as the intro guitar, since he has been playing guitar more and more over the course of this tour, and I think it would be great to see him use that on stage. I don’t want him to have a shred off against JP necessarily, but to let him open Tuscany would be awesome. Hell, I’d even be really keen on them revisiting Killing Hand and letting Jordan play the opening lead.
-
The prerecorded stuff is an interesting discussion, and at the end of the day it is what it is. However, the one issue i do legitimately have with the last 2 DT Tours is how dang loud it is. It kind of takes the punch out of the concert because I have to wear ear protection(and even the better types of ear protection take away some level of “punch” to the mix). And if I try to listen for a bit without the ear protection, the volume is so high that it starts distorting and losing a level of quality in the music. If there was one thing I wish they would do and nothing else it would be just to turn down the volume a bit at the live shows.
-
The prerecorded stuff is an interesting discussion, and at the end of the day it is what it is. However, the one issue i do legitimately have with the last 2 DT Tours is how dang loud it is. It kind of takes the punch out of the concert because I have to wear ear protection(and even the better types of ear protection take away some level of “punch” to the mix). And if I try to listen for a bit without the ear protection, the volume is so high that it starts distorting and losing a level of quality in the music. If there was one thing I wish they would do and nothing else it would be just to turn down the volume a bit at the live shows.
That seems to vary from show to show. I saw them twice in six days on the Along for the Ride tour in 2014. The Chicago show on the weekend was perfect volume, and the Kansas City show nearly a week was ear-splitting loud to the point where the show wasn't even that enjoyable even though I had ear plugs in and two of us moved up to the balcony, where there were some empty seats, to try and get a reprieve. I have joked before that when I am near-deaf some day, I will have four shows to blame and that one is at the top of that list of four (the others being Metallica, Foo Fighters and Judas Priest).
-
Yesterday I was listening to Live at Budokan on headphones. Beautiful. No backing tracks, just JP and MP authentically doing backing vocals. I believe that changed on the very first tour after MP left, so I guess I have to lay my grievances at JP's feet. :-[
-
Yesterday I was listening to Live at Budokan on headphones. Beautiful. No backing tracks, just JP and MP authentically doing backing vocals. I believe that changed on the very first tour after MP left, so I guess I have to lay my grievances at JP's feet. :-[
I guess so, yeah.
I would just say that of the two, MP has the better backing voice, by far. JP is OK, I guess, but definitely in a support role. He's not a lead vocal, and he's not a lead backup, either.
-
Yesterday I was listening to Live at Budokan on headphones. Beautiful. No backing tracks, just JP and MP authentically doing backing vocals. I believe that changed on the very first tour after MP left, so I guess I have to lay my grievances at JP's feet. :-[
This, from what I can tell, definitely falls on JPs feet.
I don't have any issue with the opening of TCOT being played through PA. Lots of bands do this. To me, it's part of dramatic effect of coming back out for the encore. Maybe it gives the band a little extra breather after doing a 20 minute song and about to do another. I don't know, I'm not a musician.
The piped in backing vocals bother me much more. Maybe the mix or where I sat, it didn't bother me at all at the CT show, but it was much more noticeable in NJ. I didn't let it get to me, I was enjoying the show too much. But it does kind of suck IMO for such an awesome live band to do these things. I'd rather no backing vocals at that point. I know this is nothing new either, but is it just more noticeable now?
-
Honestly, after having this debate on sevenstring forum, my opinions are :
-Firing Labrie was the solution but like 20 years ago, not now, it would make no sense.
-Searching for a new singer could be the death of DT
-I'm ok with part lip syncing.
-I'm not ok with labrie screaming like a madman hoping to land on the right note, like he does sometimes. I'm for a workaround for his range loss, he already has a monotoneous voice on new albums.
-
Practically, I think we’re more mad that it’s done in a way designed to deceive us into not realising it’s happening.
I’m actually fine with the fact that he’s using the track. If it leads to him not shying away from the moment after this with the “big note” of the song, then fine.
But it’s the way that James is trying to turn as if to not show it off. Keep moving, performing, anything other than planting yourself in an odd spot that kinda gives it away.
For Petrucci using the tape underneath the solo in Tuscany, he”s been doing that since the first time they performed the song. I’m cool with it, it’s just part of the song. But, it would be cool if Jordan got to p,as the intro guitar, since he has been playing guitar more and more over the course of this tour, and I think it would be great to see him use that on stage. I don’t want him to have a shred off against JP necessarily, but to let him open Tuscany would be awesome. Hell, I’d even be really keen on them revisiting Killing Hand and letting Jordan play the opening lead.
Ya know what? I agree. Especially considering James would compensate for the difficulty in getting enough air by yelling "Sing it!" and not singing the end part himself in 2011. Just own up to it. People will still bitch but whatever.
I also agree about the intro tape. Some songs it's just weird.
I know Sons of Apollo isn't incredibly well regarded around here but they use an intro tape for Goodbye Divinity which is a huge missed opportunity. I get it that it lets things build but how much cooler would it be to have the lights out completely and just Derek walks on stage, starts playing, then Portnoy comes on and joins in, then Bumblefoot and Sheehan or whatever order it was, and then of course Soto. That would be a cool intro.
-
Well, I don't understand why bands pipe in intros to songs either. For instance, on Rush's Headlong Flight, I never understood why they piped in the intro to the song. It was just a bass intro after all.....
As far singing goes, I can understand with the multilayering of vocals on the albums and wanting to recreate that in a live environment. Rush did this for many years but it never ever took away from the final musical presentation.
But I agree that I wish that DT would come up with alternatives. For instance, TCOT, JR could play the acoustic part while JP solos over that.
Oh well - enjoy DT while you still have them......
-
Practically, I think we’re more mad that it’s done in a way designed to deceive us into not realising it’s happening.
I’m actually fine with the fact that he’s using the track. If it leads to him not shying away from the moment after this with the “big note” of the song, then fine.
But it’s the way that James is trying to turn as if to not show it off. Keep moving, performing, anything other than planting yourself in an odd spot that kinda gives it away.
For Petrucci using the tape underneath the solo in Tuscany, he”s been doing that since the first time they performed the song. I’m cool with it, it’s just part of the song. But, it would be cool if Jordan got to p,as the intro guitar, since he has been playing guitar more and more over the course of this tour, and I think it would be great to see him use that on stage. I don’t want him to have a shred off against JP necessarily, but to let him open Tuscany would be awesome. Hell, I’d even be really keen on them revisiting Killing Hand and letting Jordan play the opening lead.
Ya know what? I agree. Especially considering James would compensate for the difficulty in getting enough air by yelling "Sing it!" and not singing the end part himself in 2011. Just own up to it. People will still bitch but whatever.
I had to listen to and analyze Luna Park to see how he did this part. And there are moments where he doesn't complete the sustain of the notes. In, "The piece of me that died, will return to live again." he doesn't sustain that last note in "again", he immediately tells the audience to "sing it with me."
And then here...https://youtu.be/QKC3kOyRk1Y?t=563 he doesn't turn around. He faces the audience while singing that part. It's only in that part of the song, during that section of the chorus where he turns around. You can also hear how loud the backing vocals are before the time-stamped video where he stops holding the note to "all my pain" to spit.
This to me, states that there are backing vocals he is harmonizing with, to give the effect of doubled vocals. Like how JP is using his new toy to enhance the guitars to sound as if two guitars are playing.
That didn't bother my enjoyment one bit of the 10 min song, being played. And I do not know why people are giving him flak when it's more obvious in other songs like About To Crash that he is harmonizing and doubling with backing vocals.
-
Ideally to 'keep it real' there would be no backing vocal track, but if it's there or not, I don't think it's helping the listener much. He is clearly not singing this exactly like the studio version-- intentional or not.
To be honest, I didn't even notice if he was getting any help or not when I saw the show. I thought he did a nice job but that it was broadly in line with his performances over the last decade.
-
Ok. Am fresh from the Houston show. 2 things.
1. JP's cool solo toward the end of TCOT, he played some Rhapsody in Blue. And it was Fantastic.
2. During James little talk, it happens after Bridges in the Sky.. He says. "For those who say I am lip syncing. Fu#@ you." So there you have it.
It was awesomeness as usual. TMOLS and Endless Sacrifice has really been fantastic for this tour and the crowd was waay into it.
Fot the preshow meetup, we had 20 people. 2 guys from Mexico City!.
There is no better show than Dream Theater!
-
2. During James little talk, it happens after Bridges in the Sky.. He says. "For those who say I am lip syncing. Fu#@ you." So there you have it.
Haha damn!
-
I mean, if it's piped in and you aren't mimicking it, it's not lipsynching. You're just singing along with a playback of harmonies or backup vocals, which I don't think he or anyone else could deny, if that is what is happening on the tour.
-Marc.
-
2. During James little talk, it happens after Bridges in the Sky.. He says. "For those who say I am lip syncing. Fu#@ you." So there you have it.
Woohooo!!!! SMACKDOWN!!!!! ✨💥✨🔥✨
There is no better show than Dream Theater!
💯
-
:lol :lol :lol
he's clearly not. If he were, all of these performances would sound strangely close to the recorded versions, which they don't.
I am impressed they found out about this so quickly.
-
:lol :lol :lol
he's clearly not. If he were, all of these performances would sound strangely close to the recorded versions, which they don't.
I am impressed they found out about this so quickly.
Not necessarily. Roger Waters, for example, has clearly lip synched in recent years, and often the track you hear live is a new one he did, most likely in tour rehearsals where they probably took the best take he could deliver and made that the "live" one that he lip synched.
-
Even worse, he seems to be purposefully turning away from the crowd for these sections so that no one notices this, but they did.
That's a stretch. He's turned sideways, not away (at least at the show I was at and the first video I saw). And what would "turning away" supposedly accomplish? If he is "faking it" instead of singing as a few people have said, why bother turning away if he is moving his mouth as if singing and isn't actually singing? That makes no sense.
That's not a stretch at all. What are we talking about here really..how here turns away or sideways to hide his performance that is being lip synced..That's insulting the common sense of people..Is there a doubt that he is NOT faking it..just trust your ears and compare the videos..his voice isn't singing. As I see it the problem with JML's voice is not going to get better..either you keep him and watch the value of your live production go downhill or you comprise a replacement -it's that simple..
-
or you comprise a replacement -it's that simple..
UNACCEPTABLE .
-
Or - you have a problem with a band member's performance, quit following the band so you can stop your bitching.
It's that simple......
-
Or - you have a problem with a band member's performance, quit following the band so you can stop your bitching.
It's that simple......
Give me a freaking break.
The idea that having a criticism of a band member means you should give up your fandom is so hilariously bad that I don't even know where to begin.
-
To think, this all started as a "A View from the Top of the World tour is awesome!" thread :huh:
-
To think, this all started as a "A View from the Top of the World tour is awesome!" thread :huh:
Haha, so true!
And to piggyback on my last post, if JLB is getting better over the course of the tour, awesome. I am sure everyone wants the band and JLB to kick ass. No one is looking to criticize him for sport. But the performances in the first week, as we saw in various YT clips, were pretty rough of James, as it definitely looked like he was either lip synching in spots or letting a backing track do the heavy lifting in isolated spots. And I think it is important to remember that this is a discussion forum, not a FB fan page where any criticism is shut down. If bosk1 and his team of mods have issues with any criticism, they will surely let us know. :tup :tup
-
Maybe this will be a little clearer for y'all. Maybe I'll get booted. That's ok. This has been annoying.
https://youtu.be/lT7B4jUdvGw
-
Aside from that.... The Rhapsody in Blue was definitely a highlight!
-
Maybe this will be a little clearer for y'all. Maybe I'll get booted. That's ok. This has been annoying.
https://youtu.be/lT7B4jUdvGw
I'm glad he did that.
-
Maybe this will be a little clearer for y'all. Maybe I'll get booted. That's ok. This has been annoying.
https://youtu.be/lT7B4jUdvGw
Well that settles this..of course we are the bad guys..man, this is so sad...
-
Maybe this will be a little clearer for y'all. Maybe I'll get booted. That's ok. This has been annoying.
https://youtu.be/lT7B4jUdvGw
Well that settles this..of course we are the bad guys..man, this is so sad...
Surely a man has a right to defend himself and answer his critics, no?
-
Maybe this will be a little clearer for y'all. Maybe I'll get booted. That's ok. This has been annoying.
https://youtu.be/lT7B4jUdvGw
Well that settles this..of course we are the bad guys..man, this is so sad...
If you're going to be so adamant about it. Why not tell him straight to his face. It's the next logical thing to do if you are so sure he is lip singing.
As I have stated. He is not lip singing. He is singing along to a backing track that enhances the harmonies of the song. The same way JP is using his new toy to enhance his guitar to make it seem as if two guitars are playing.
Even Queen never played the best part of Bohemian Rhapsody live, it was entirely a backing tape. They would even skip that part entirely at times.
-
Surely a man has a right to defend himself and answer his critics, no?
For sure he has the right..but to insult fans in this way especially when it is beyond doubt that the little section in Bridges is lip synced..I give up, honestly...After being a fan for 25 years I though I've seen it all..well who knew..
-
Maybe this will be a little clearer for y'all. Maybe I'll get booted. That's ok. This has been annoying.
https://youtu.be/lT7B4jUdvGw
Well that settles this..of course we are the bad guys..man, this is so sad...
Surely a man has a right to defend himself and answer his critics, no?
Absolutely, but some fans acting like he owned those who accused him or that his FU ends the conversation are being a bit too fanboy-ish (or fangirl-ish), IMO.
I never got the impression that he was lip synching, but some of those early clips sure did look like he was letting the backing track do the heavy lifting in certain spots, meaning he was singing live for sure, but was barely audible due to the backing track being so loud. Intentional or not, that is how it looked and sounded, and James turning away from the crowd at the same moment in a song multiple times just looked...odd.
-
The "A View from the Top of the World tour is awesome!" thread
Note the bolded word. Maybe we could get back to talking positively about this tour. Dream Theater are still an absolute powerhouse of a band almost forty years into their career, and to harp on a twenty second section of a two hour show that may or may not have been mimed (and FWIW, he was clearly singing when I saw them at Beacon Theatre) is a bit silly IMO. There’s so much to love about this tour, a tour that we’re lucky is even happening considering the way the world has been the past two years, so maybe let’s try to enjoy the fact that live music from our favorite bands and artists is back.
-
Good for James for clearing that up. I was upset by what looked like lip-synching and expressed my opinion on here, as a fan does. It's good to know that he is singing along with that section, he is aware that lip-synching isn't something that people that hold him in high regard want to see. It did look like lip-synching, both to YouTube viewers and people in the crowd, so James was probably made aware by someone of the controversy.
I appreciate that he addressed it and do not mind the "fuck you." ;D
-
Can someone tell me what he is saying after he says "That section there..." I can't quite make it out.
-
Can someone tell me what he is saying after he says "That section there..." I can't quite make it out.
Same - and I think that's probably the most important thing that he's saying there, as far as explaining what is going on with the backing track and his signing.
-
Or - you have a problem with a band member's performance, quit following the band so you can stop your bitching.
It's that simple......
Give me a freaking break.
The idea that having a criticism of a band member means you should give up your fandom is so hilariously bad that I don't even know where to begin.
Hey, you can still listen to the band and have enjoyment from them without following them or going to their concerts. The bitching about JLB reminds me of 2 spouses that over time do nothing but complain about one another. I'm sure we've all known couples like this and after awhile, we're all like - 'they just need to get a divorce'.
Oh - and my comments are up for discussion because this is a discussion board. ::)
-
Like I've said before and will say again, I'd go see them live in a heartbeat if they ever came back here :metal
-
Like I've said before and will say again, I'd go see them live in a heartbeat if they ever came back here :metal
I'm witchu! :metal
-
And I'm thinking its way better to get my fangirl on (this forum is for fans I hope, or am I in the wrong place?) than to be intelletually critical of a teeny part of a show that is fantastic. And that absolutely made no difference and, which most people I doubt even noticed.
Like probably not many knew that throwing in Rhapsody in Blue during the solo of TCOT happened.
-
I had to stop reading here for a bit. It actually bummed me out and made me not look forward to the show last weekend. But I'm glad I went, though. I had a good time. They're using too many backing tracks for my liking BUT I could hear JLB singing over them.
I think it bugs me more that JP can't be heard. I know he does sing. At least, occasionally. The clearest I could hear him (post-MP) was on the Dramatic tour. There's also a video of "The Enemy Inside" from early into the AFTR tour with the soundboard audio and his voice is clearly heard doing the call and response with JLB in the chorus. It's not like that at all on BT4thW. I digest.
In closing, I'm glad I went. Dropped a lot on the merch stand. :lol
Wasn't thrilled with the set list but it is what it is. AVFTToTW and Count were the highlights for me. As well as 6:00, because Awake is my favorite album.
-
There are some who have the blessing of being able to see them on every tour and may complain about stuff (and they are in their right if they choose to); while others may not have had the opportunity of having seen their favorite band live or may not be able to see them on every tour…and would not hesitate to go watch a concert now and likely love every second of it with all the flaws it could have.
Not to call out those highlighting what they don’t like as again you’re in every right to make criticism, but as someone here said believe it would set this post and forum in a better mood if we just appreciate the good things DT is still able to display live, and always remember you are blessed if you have the chance of deciding if going to most of their tours.
Have been a fan myself since the 90’s and i was only able to see them live for the first time in the Last tour (saw them twice in same week), and if i could i’d go to every tour now and until they are physically able to play, regardless of any limitations, backing tracks, lip-synching???, effects, etc. That is just me and i understand who may feel differently :).
So fellow DT fans…please enjoy your shows while they last with all their plus and deltas…
-
I just got home from the Dallas show. I thought it was awesome. Loud as fuck, but awesome. They’re so tight as a band, but really rocking. Mike’s drums sound so powerful. More than I noticed in the past. James was great, and every song came across great. All of the guys seemed like they were having a blast as well. Just a great great show!
One negative. I hate that venue. I’m hoping the promoter here can get them in a different place next time.
-
And I'm thinking its way better to get my fangirl on (this forum is for fans I hope, or am I in the wrong place?) than to be intelletually critical of a teeny part of a show that is fantastic.
PREACH!!!! Fangirls unite! 💃💫💖
-
Maybe this will be a little clearer for y'all. Maybe I'll get booted. That's ok. This has been annoying.
https://youtu.be/lT7B4jUdvGw
:hefdaddy
Love this - atta boy, James! I've seen this guy 22 times w DT, and while he has his off nights, I've never left a show thinking 'he needs to be replaced'. I'd imagine after years of the shots this guy takes it felt damned good to 'clear the air'.
-
Yeah, I would never want JLB to be replaced. I know rock music history is loaded with "irreplaceable" singers who were in fact replaced, but I hope it never happens with DT. Regardless of what I think of his live struggles, he still sounds really good in the studio, and that is what I listen to 99.999% of the time when it comes to Dream Theater, so all good by me. :metal :metal
-
And I'm thinking its way better to get my fangirl on (this forum is for fans I hope, or am I in the wrong place?) than to be intelletually critical of a teeny part of a show that is fantastic.
PREACH!!!! Fangirls unite! 💃💫💖
:heart :metal
-
There are some who have the blessing of being able to see them on every tour and may complain about stuff (and they are in their right if they choose to); while others may not have had the opportunity of having seen their favorite band live or may not be able to see them on every tour…and would not hesitate to go watch a concert now and likely love every second of it with all the flaws it could have.
Not to call out those highlighting what they don’t like as again you’re in every right to make criticism, but as someone here said believe it would set this post and forum in a better mood if we just appreciate the good things DT is still able to display live, and always remember you are blessed if you have the chance of deciding if going to most of their tours.
Have been a fan myself since the 90’s and i was only able to see them live for the first time in the Last tour (saw them twice in same week), and if i could i’d go to every tour now and until they are physically able to play, regardless of any limitations, backing tracks, lip-synching???, effects, etc. That is just me and i understand who may feel differently :).
So fellow DT fans…please enjoy your shows while they last with all their plus and deltas…
Good post! We should all be thankful we still have Dream Theater in our lives and they're still making great new music and putting on kick ass shows. There's never been a band like them, and there will never be another band like them. I think it's important to not lose sight of this.
-
There are some who have the blessing of being able to see them on every tour and may complain about stuff (and they are in their right if they choose to); while others may not have had the opportunity of having seen their favorite band live or may not be able to see them on every tour…and would not hesitate to go watch a concert now and likely love every second of it with all the flaws it could have.
Not to call out those highlighting what they don’t like as again you’re in every right to make criticism, but as someone here said believe it would set this post and forum in a better mood if we just appreciate the good things DT is still able to display live, and always remember you are blessed if you have the chance of deciding if going to most of their tours.
Have been a fan myself since the 90’s and i was only able to see them live for the first time in the Last tour (saw them twice in same week), and if i could i’d go to every tour now and until they are physically able to play, regardless of any limitations, backing tracks, lip-synching???, effects, etc. That is just me and i understand who may feel differently :).
So fellow DT fans…please enjoy your shows while they last with all their plus and deltas…
Good post! We should all be thankful we still have Dream Theater in our lives and they're still making great new music and putting on kick ass shows. There's never been a band like them, and there will never be another band like them. I think it's important to not lose sight of this.
💯
-
JLB surely had some issues at the show I attended, but lip synching definitely wasn't one of them.
-
Maybe this will be a little clearer for y'all. Maybe I'll get booted. That's ok. This has been annoying.
https://youtu.be/lT7B4jUdvGw
Ok, James. Not technically lip-syncing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72SBThl5FpQ&t=499s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72SBThl5FpQ&t=499s)
Guess they raised the volume on his mic on this section, you can hear he's not singing the original line. Just a very low melody.
-
Maybe this will be a little clearer for y'all. Maybe I'll get booted. That's ok. This has been annoying.
https://youtu.be/lT7B4jUdvGw
Ok, James. Not technically lip-syncing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72SBThl5FpQ&t=499s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72SBThl5FpQ&t=499s)
Guess they raised the volume on his mic on this section, you can hear he's not singing the original line. Just a very low melody.
I don't see a proper eye roll emoji above.
The only issue I hear is that he's a bit flat in a couple spots. Or its one of those really crappy youtube videos. I have seen this show 3 times. Never did he sound like this, and never did I have an issue with how he and the backing tracks were presented.
If I were a person who has so much problem with this, I definitely wouldnt go to a show. White Snake has a new young singer who may be more to the perfection necessary for enjoyment.
-
Maybe this will be a little clearer for y'all. Maybe I'll get booted. That's ok. This has been annoying.
https://youtu.be/lT7B4jUdvGw
Ok, James. Not technically lip-syncing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72SBThl5FpQ&t=499s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72SBThl5FpQ&t=499s)
Guess they raised the volume on his mic on this section, you can hear he's not singing the original line. Just a very low melody.
That's more like it. I for one stand corrected.
-
Man, I don't know, I wasn't at any of these shows, but seems to me he started singing the low octave of that melody only in recent concerts, the first ones really sound like lip-synching. Again, haven't been to the shows, but only by YT videos you can clearly feel the difference between having this low melody and not.
About his defense video, I find all the cursing a bit unnecessary, but it's James' way of expressing himself, don't mind that much.
But I stand with some people here: seeing them live for the next years is a privilege by itself, we should enjoy it while we can. I for one can't wait for them to announce other Brazilian dates beyond Rock in Rio. You guys from North America and Europe are really fortunate to have them perform in so many different cities and even second legs in a same tour.
-
Aside from that.... The Rhapsody in Blue was definitely a highlight!
The Gershwin piece? That's cool (albeit a bit odd)!
-
Aside from that.... The Rhapsody in Blue was definitely a highlight!
The Gershwin piece? That's cool (albeit a bit odd)!
It was on the last LTE release.
-
Aside from that.... The Rhapsody in Blue was definitely a highlight!
The Gershwin piece? That's cool (albeit a bit odd)!
It's a song they did on LTE 3
-
Is it LTE covering Gershwin or just the same title?
-
Is it LTE covering Gershwin or just the same title?
Yes, it is a cover, but it's freaking brilliant. You should definitely check it out...a highlight of the album as far as I'm concerned.
-
LTE originally played "Rhapsody In Blue" back in 2008 for their 10th Anniversary tour. The band later decided to record a studio version for LTE3. Since they performed it in 2008, it influenced MP/JR/JP when they put together "The Count Of Tuscany". It's all kind of come full circle.
-Marc.
-
Well, james said it himself - he isn’t lip syncing. That clears that up. Except for the tons of footage clearly showing prerecorded lead vocals being played over his lines in bridges while he whisper sings an octave lower while the prerecorded piped in lead vocals overpower his own.. Personally I think the whole section and approach is silly and I don’t get why they don’t just play an easier song to sing, but whatever, denial it is then! :yarr
Edit: Just to clarify, the reason i’m a bit cynical about it is he is berating fans for discussing something he’s clearly doing. We have eyes and ears.
-
:lol :lol :lol
he's clearly not. If he were, all of these performances would sound strangely close to the recorded versions, which they don't.
I am impressed they found out about this so quickly.
Not necessarily. Roger Waters, for example, has clearly lip synched in recent years, and often the track you hear live is a new one he did, most likely in tour rehearsals where they probably took the best take he could deliver and made that the "live" one that he lip synched.
This happens a lot, especially at one-offs and things like award shows. Those kinds of events just can't have glitches, so they have a fail-safe. That DOESN'T mean that you're hearing the original studio version, and it doesn't mean you're not hearing "live", it just means it's not live IN THAT MOMENT.
-
I don't have a horse in this race but to me live means live. In the moment at the moment. Period.
I understand it's done often at awards shows and I get why. But at a rock show? Nope.
Not saying JLB is or isn't, I'll take his word, but live is live. It means what it means.
-
Live can mean many things.
Live music now includes a live performance and show.
Live music changed once all these new technologies were available to enhance that Live experience.
Some musicians have taken advantage of the technology available to make the live show, spectacular. This includes backing tracks.
For myself, I can find a balance between the music and vocals being live and the performance of the show. I understand bands will utilize backing tracks. I want to hear the song, first and foremost, just being able to hear the artist play the song is why I go to shows. And let me say as well, I have more of a problem with bands live setlists than I do the performance enhancing technology. This is why I like Dream Theater because they're not afraid to play any song across their catalog, same with Rush. Unlike most bands who consistently play the same songs every tour, neglecting more than half of their catalog.
I don't mind if Dream Theater uses backing vocals, but what I sort of have an issue with is when that backing track is louder than the actual vocalists volume. It's a me thing though, because I want that backing vocal to also be loud enough to blend with the live voice, which is like a paradox. :biggrin:
-
Reminds me of how Nic Cage has become a meme because he is more of a performer than an actor. I guess at this stage DT aim to put on a performance rather than a live concert. Choices.
-
I'm in Austin as we speak. Decided to bring my friend who couldn't go to the Mesa show.
-
I'll be at the show as well. Dead Center, first row, top balcony.
-
I'll be at the show as well. Dead Center, first row, top balcony.
Ben_Jamin, you now have to go up to the balcony before the show and yell "Hey goo-goo!" until he answers you.
-
I'll be at the show as well. Dead Center, first row, top balcony.
Ben_Jamin, you now have to go up to the balcony before the show and yell "Hey goo-goo!" until he answers you.
My seats are just a few rows behind him, so that's coincidentally hilarious. :rollin
-
Boy - anyone who followed Rush over the years would have the same complaints. During Far Cry during the Far Cry chorus, they would pipe in the "whoo-hoo it's a far cry from where we"....blah, blah, blah. Geddy would just look at the front rows and roll his eyes knowing he was lip-synching that part. This happened in MANY of their songs. During Wish Them Well Geddy triggered the response to 'wish them well' during the chorus.
No big deal......
-
Boy - anyone who followed Rush over the years would have the same complaints. During Far Cry during the Far Cry chorus, they would pipe in the "whoo-hoo it's a far cry from where we"....blah, blah, blah. Geddy would just look at the front rows and roll his eyes knowing he was lip-synching that part. This happened in MANY of their songs. During Wish Them Well Geddy triggered the response to 'wish them well' during the chorus.
No big deal......
I think the difference between Rush triggering pre-recorded vocals and instruments/sounds and Dream Theater doing it is that Rush slowly built that into their shows over time and they were only three guys on stage. Dream Theater used to have 2 guys doing backing vocals in a band of five, with Portnoy and Petrucci helping with backing vocals, but one Portnoy left, it seemed like they wanted JLB to be the only voice on stage, so that meant suddenly triggering his backing vocals rather than having them sung live, which felt like quite a shift from what they used to do. Pair that with playing every song to a click, it just felt like their shows suddenly because a rigid performance rather than the loose and freeing "live" concerts they used to do.
I understand how folks can like/hate both ways of performing, but I suppose folks will just have to accept that the way DT is doing shows now is how they'll probably be doing them for the rest of their career. I guess if you aren't fully aware of it, ignorance is really bliss. It's like when you start being told how much CGI is actually used in movies these days, it might ruin the experience for you because you believed everything was real/practical and done on location, rather than on a back-lot with green screens.
-Marc.
-
Not to mention it is misleading to say that "anyone who followed Rush would have the same complaints," which honestly feels like a bad fishing trip.
-
I just find it fascinating how everyone perceives live music differently.
-
While it can be argued that DT's use of backing tracks was a sudden change, it has been their way of doing things for more than a decade now so I've had plenty of time to become accustomed to it. I prefer the old way, but I have accepted that this is the kind of show they are giving us right now. But I wouldn't be disappointed if they gave us a more raw live show sometime in the future.
And as far as JP doing live backing vocals... I LOVE the falsetto lines he sang on In the Name of God at Budokan. I believe he did the same on The Ones Who Help to Set the Sun on WDADR. If I remember right, those vocals were much more apparent on either the CD or the DVD of that show, but I don't remember which.
-
Not to mention it is misleading to say that "anyone who followed Rush would have the same complaints," which honestly feels like a bad fishing trip.
Oh my bad - I said would.
I meant SHOULD have the same complaint. Better? ::)
-
Not to mention it is misleading to say that "anyone who followed Rush would have the same complaints," which honestly feels like a bad fishing trip.
Oh my bad - I said would.
I meant SHOULD have the same complaint. Better? ::)
Why the need to be so obnoxious with an opinion that differs from yours?
I think a major difference between Rush and DT - besides the fact that DT used to, and still *is* capable, of doing backing vocals live - is the fact that when Rush did it, everything was manually triggered by the guys live. So in a way, they were still "performing" the part, even if it was a trigger. With DT playing to a click, those canned vocals are in essence just playing along with a tape (actually the modern-day digital equivalent, but my point still stands). To some of you it may seem like a minor detail, but to me and perhaps others, it's another reason why what Rush did was more tolerable than what DT's doing now.
-
I understand how folks can like/hate both ways of performing, but I suppose folks will just have to accept that the way DT is doing shows now is how they'll probably be doing them for the rest of their career. I guess if you aren't fully aware of it, ignorance is really bliss. It's like when you start being told how much CGI is actually used in movies these days, it might ruin the experience for you because you believed everything was real/practical and done on location, rather than on a back-lot with green screens.
And then, there are those who are aware of it, and actually prefer it.
I'm starting to think that this may be a generational thing. I'm not a boomer, and when I watch live concert videos from my parents' era, even from the very best of bands, they are mostly quite honestly a hot mess.
-
On that JLB video, seeing the commentary in the fanbase outside DTF, I totally understand why he’s pissed. It’s far from my favorite song, and I don’t think it would be actually advisable to do this, but it would be cathartic to see them break out Never Enough. I’ve always maintained that MP was exactly right about a certain kind of fan.
-
Well, james said it himself - he isn’t lip syncing. That clears that up. Except for the tons of footage clearly showing prerecorded lead vocals being played over his lines in bridges while he whisper sings an octave lower while the prerecorded piped in lead vocals overpower his own.. Personally I think the whole section and approach is silly and I don’t get why they don’t just play an easier song to sing, but whatever, denial it is then! :yarr
Edit: Just to clarify, the reason i’m a bit cynical about it is he is berating fans for discussing something he’s clearly doing. We have eyes and ears.
:tup :tup :tup
-
And then, there are those who are aware of it, and actually prefer it.
I'm starting to think that this may be a generational thing. I'm not a boomer, and when I watch live concert videos from my parents' era, even from the very best of bands, they are mostly quite honestly a hot mess.
I'm a younger millennial, and we're mostly comparing Dream Theater in 2022 to Dream Theater in 2009, not the very best of bands in the 1970's. This band used to do things differently and they weren't a hot mess and we miss it and we want this current approach toned down a bit. A BIT, until at least the backing vocal tapes aren't loud enough that people are discussing whether James is even singing under them during that bridge in BITS or not. I don't think that would set their shows to hot mess status.
-
On that JLB video, seeing the commentary in the fanbase outside DTF, I totally understand why he’s pissed. It’s far from my favorite song, and I don’t think it would be actually advisable to do this, but it would be cathartic to see them break out Never Enough. I’ve always maintained that MP was exactly right about a certain kind of fan.
This is exactly why I’m not bothered by the lyrics. In fact, when Portnoy was explaining the subject matter, he went out of his way to say how much he loves and appreciates the Dream Theater fans, and that these lyrics were about a very small group of fans. And he was 100% right. Everything really is never enough.
-
I don't think that would set their shows to hot mess status.
No, it wouldn't and they never were, but I was addressing the type of fans who seem to be saying (here and elsewhere) they want a completely "raw" and unproduced show. Maybe that's just what they grew up with at concerts in general, and so they prefer it? That's all I meant. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it.
But that's not my preference at all.
It's about being polished. The band is so advanced and polished now, and their use of technology just serves to create an even more polished finished product. If technology enhances the atmosphere of an elevated total experience, then I say it's a positive addition.
Again though, here and elsewhere, this whole "lipsyncing controversy" is getting way too much press. I firmly believe that it's a technical problem with the balance of the sound and not the band's fault. I think they should make a public statement on the website or something, maybe with a short behind the scenes video showing what is actually happening on stage in those moments. But from everything I've seen online, I doubt even that would clear the air because there are people out there who are determined to decide that they are lying to us.
-
About this whole discussion of using a backing track or not, I like Megadeth's approach to it (questions and answers with Kiko Loureiro, around 3:30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiOVu93pTFo&t =7s)
He basically says that they don't have any backing tracks of instruments that they have on stage. They don't have extra guitars, extra acoustic guitars, any backing vocals, drums or percussion. If they can play or sing, they do it live, but they do use orchestrations. Songs like 'Trust' have orchestrations, so they use backing tracks there. If the songs have intros, like 'Dystopia', 'The Threat is Real', so they have backing tracks for those intros.
He adds that the band, however, uses click track, so they can play in sync with videos and other elements of the show, and that songs with orchestrations, extra instruments or intros need the backing tracks to create the atmosphere like on the album.
I know DT sound evolved, but if you hear Live at the Marquee, their more raw live sound was great back then. And this "Megadeth approach" is basically what DT did until 2010, just without the click track - and DT could just add that IMO.
It's only a matter of preference, I do still think DT is amazing live and I'm really looking foward to see them in Rock in Rio!! :hefdaddy :metal
-
On that JLB video, seeing the commentary in the fanbase outside DTF, I totally understand why he’s pissed. It’s far from my favorite song, and I don’t think it would be actually advisable to do this, but it would be cathartic to see them break out Never Enough. I’ve always maintained that MP was exactly right about a certain kind of fan.
Eh, I would hope James would never stoop to the level of embracing the embarrassing lyrics to Never Enough. While I get the sentiment Portnoy was going for in them, the lyrics themselves are not good, IMO (sorry, Mike, if you were neglecting your family, that's on you :P).
I don't think that would set their shows to hot mess status.
No, it wouldn't and they never were, but I was addressing the type of fans who seem to be saying (here and elsewhere) they want a completely "raw" and unproduced show. Maybe that's just what they grew up with at concerts in general, and so they prefer it? That's all I meant. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it.
But that's not my preference at all.
It's about being polished. The band is so advanced and polished now, and their use of technology just serves to create an even more polished finished product. If technology enhances the atmosphere of an elevated total experience, then I say it's a positive addition.
Again though, here and elsewhere, this whole "lipsyncing controversy" is getting way too much press. I firmly believe that it's a technical problem with the balance of the sound and not the band's fault. I think they should make a public statement on the website or something, maybe with a short behind the scenes video showing what is actually happening on stage in those moments. But from everything I've seen online, I doubt even that would clear the air because there are people out there who are determined to decide that they are lying to us.
To push back a little on this, studio albums are where you should want to go if you want a polished, finished product.
I get using technology to enhance a live experience, and some of my favorite bands/artists definitely do it, but if a live experience is raw, well, I would say then you are getting a true live performance. Obviously, we live in a age now where every artist seemingly "fixes" mistakes to where live albums aren't true indicators of what actually took place, so the toothpaste is out of the tube at this point, but there is something very real, very honest and very great about a true live raw performance without all of the bells and whistles that a production brings.
-
Obviously, we live in a age now where every artist seemingly "fixes" mistakes to where live albums aren't true indicators of what actually took place, so the toothpaste is out of the tube at this point, but there is something very real, very honest and very great about a true live raw performance without all of the bells and whistles that a production brings.
I think that this truly is a matter of preference. I wonder then whether they shouldn't try to please everyone and include both kinds of shows? For example give us the fully produced show on the regular tour, and then give what you are calling a "true live raw performance" for festivals.
-
Obviously, we live in a age now where every artist seemingly "fixes" mistakes to where live albums aren't true indicators of what actually took place, so the toothpaste is out of the tube at this point, but there is something very real, very honest and very great about a true live raw performance without all of the bells and whistles that a production brings.
I think that this truly is a matter of preference. I wonder then whether they shouldn't try to please everyone and include both kinds of shows? For example give us the fully produced show on the regular tour, and then give what you are calling a "true live raw performance" for festivals.
I personally believe that an artist should, first and foremost, please themselves. If DT is presenting the show 'they' want to present, then I'm good with that. As a consumer, I prefer to focus my time/energy/money on things I like, as opposed to dwell on things I don't.
If DT's live show bothered me (it doesn't), I'd probably decide to simply not go and see them the next time around. But as it stands, if the band is happy, then I am happy.
-
But as it stands, if the band is happy, then I am happy.
I agree. And I am on the 'production' side and love what they're giving us now, I wouldn't have it any other way. I just think that if there is such a large percentage of fans that is unhappy they could at least catch a different kind of show in an alternative environment. Maybe this would help calm all the unrest in the fandom? But I do see your point, they don't owe anyone anything.
-
But as it stands, if the band is happy, then I am happy.
I agree. And I am on the 'production' side and love what they're giving us now, I wouldn't have it any other way. I just think that if there is such a large percentage of fans that is unhappy they could at least catch a different kind of show in an alternative environment. Maybe this would help calm all the unrest in the fandom? But I do see your point, they don't owe anyone anything.
I do wonder, though, what percentage of the fanbase posters on this forum represent. I suspect (and fully admit that I could be way off base) that the 'unrest' is a very small, but vocal minority. There are thousands of people in these arenas every night, but there are but a few dozen comments on reddit, and barely just as many here. So, regardless of what 'side' of this debate you fall, all of us may only represent one percent of the actual concert goers. The vast majority likely don't have an opinion either way.
-
LOL at calling the live shows of all the great rock bands of the 60s and 70s a "hot mess". Such a ridiculous statement.
-
But as it stands, if the band is happy, then I am happy.
I agree. And I am on the 'production' side and love what they're giving us now, I wouldn't have it any other way. I just think that if there is such a large percentage of fans that is unhappy they could at least catch a different kind of show in an alternative environment. Maybe this would help calm all the unrest in the fandom? But I do see your point, they don't owe anyone anything.
I do wonder, though, what percentage of the fanbase posters on this forum represent. I suspect (and fully admit that I could be way off base) that the 'unrest' is a very small, but vocal minority. There are thousands of people in these arenas every night, but there are but a few dozen comments on reddit, and barely just as many here. So, regardless of what 'side' of this debate you fall, all of us may only represent one percent of the actual concert goers. The vast majority likely don't have an opinion either way.
Maybe this has to be in the "Controversial Opinions" thread, but I do think some of these sharp opinions good or bad are really a small minority. I know I would consider myself a "musician" in the sense that I know what is being played (even if I can't play it myself) and I know what the technology entails (even if I can't duplicate that technology). None of this is a bright line for me, and while I won't name names or speak for anyone else, it didn't seem like it was a bright line for any of the other people whose opinions I sought after the show I saw. I think for the VAST majority of fans, it's not an issue until it becomes an issue. Meaning, while I thought to myself "who's playing that guitar behind John's solo in TCOT?" I didn't lose a minute's sleep about it after the thought flew out my ear. If you had five guys on stage throwing shapes and mugging to the cameras (look at any of the early 80's Tops Of The Pops sessions where everyone KNEW there was lip-synching going on) while sound was pumped in, that would be a problem. I don't know where the line is; I think it's one of those things that is case-by-case.
-
It's about being polished. The band is so advanced and polished now, and their use of technology just serves to create an even more polished finished product. If technology enhances the atmosphere of an elevated total experience, then I say it's a positive addition.
That is definitely the way that JP looks at it. Which is why they do this now, instead of the MP style, different setlist each night, fly by the seat of your pants, live without a net method.
Both approaches have strengths and weaknesses, but for now anyway, JP is going with the former.
-
LOL at calling the live shows of all the great rock bands of the 60s and 70s a "hot mess". Such a ridiculous statement.
It would be that yes if I were saying that about the bands themselves, but I'm not. I'm referring specifically to their production quality. Granted they didn't have access to the advancements that are available now. But imagine if they had? What a beautiful thing that would've been.
That is definitely the way that JP looks at it. Which is why they do this now, instead of the MP style, different setlist each night, fly by the seat of your pants, live without a net method.
Both approaches have strengths and weaknesses, but for now anyway, JP is going with the former.
And why shouldn't he? The technology is available now to make the best possible show that can exist. And it's working. Their show is the most technically sophisticated show ever, which not only does their music deserve, but it's also another layer of extreme talent and ability to be showcased, in itself.
-
I don't think that would set their shows to hot mess status.
No, it wouldn't and they never were, but I was addressing the type of fans who seem to be saying (here and elsewhere) they want a completely "raw" and unproduced show. Maybe that's just what they grew up with at concerts in general, and so they prefer it? That's all I meant. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it.
But that's not my preference at all.
It's about being polished. The band is so advanced and polished now, and their use of technology just serves to create an even more polished finished product. If technology enhances the atmosphere of an elevated total experience, then I say it's a positive addition.
Those were Dream Theater's shows they grew up on though! If you like stuff like Score or Budokan, you like a "raw" unproduced show (yes I know both those published recordings have a few overdubs). I don't think Score isn't polished enough to Dream Theater standards, and yet they wanted to go from 95% polish to 100% polish for some reason.
-
But as it stands, if the band is happy, then I am happy.
I agree. And I am on the 'production' side and love what they're giving us now, I wouldn't have it any other way. I just think that if there is such a large percentage of fans that is unhappy they could at least catch a different kind of show in an alternative environment. Maybe this would help calm all the unrest in the fandom? But I do see your point, they don't owe anyone anything.
I think maybe you could be misunderstanding the qualms of myself and other fans in regards to the piped in lead vocals and the backing vocals(I dont mind the backing vocals as much because MP isnt here anymore to sing them, but I can see why others might have issues with them considering how much higher in the mix they keep getting each tour). I am still very happy the band is touring and releasing new material. I had a blast at the most recent concert in Philly and I hope they continue touring and making music for as long as they can. Likewise, I enjoy seeing them advance the presentation of the live shows because the lights/stage production/video projections look fantastic. However, the use of piped in lead vocals on the verses in Bridges in the Sky does kind of ruin that song’s live presentation a bit. The backing vocals are one thing and don’t matter as much because the audience can still clearly hear the lead vocals of James being sung live. To use Petrucci’s favorite band as a comparison, Rush had been doing a very similar thing for many years with Geddy’s voice where they would have prerecorded backing vocals triggered to enhance the chorus and make them sound more full and like the album(complete with Alex Lifeson miming along :lol). However, the line Rush didn’t cross was having prerecorded vocals playing over a difficult lead vocal line while Geddy whisper sings or sings the line an octave lower to make it appear hes actually singing the lead vocal line.
Another example would be Roger Waters: Roger has been doing a very similar thing for many years where he has prerecorded lead vocals on certain songs and just kind of whispers along to it in the mic. Do I still love Roger Waters? Of course. The Wall in 2011 was a fantastic show. That being said, its still absurd that a professional musician would do that. I believe it is disingenuous to the audience because it makes them think they are hearing a certain type of live performance when they actually aren’t (especially when tickets are so expensive these days). Now if something happened to Labrie’s voice during the tour and he was physically unable to sing the material for medical reasons, I would be more accepting of something like that as a solution because they would simply be making the best of a difficult situation. In this case ,Bridges in the Sky has been performed the exact same way since the first show of the tour - and at the show I was at in Philly - which means they intended for it to be performed like that before the tour even started.
-
I don't think Score isn't polished enough to Dream Theater standards, and yet they wanted to go from 95% polish to 100% polish for some reason.
Oh I do love Score! It was my first exposure to the band and to this day I adore it the most of all.
But I think the difference between 95% and 100% is negligible. Why is 5% enough to cause such a rift? I think now we're just splitting hairs?
-
Now if something happened to Labrie’s voice during the tour and he was physically unable to sing the material for medical reasons, I would be more accepting of something like that as a solution because they would simply be making the best of a difficult situation.
I see what you're saying but how do we know that was not the case, whether something happened just before the tour and yet the rest of the production was already in place and so they've had to adapt to his physical needs? We don't know. We do know that his voice is fragile and we can infer that he may have had physical/technical issues with it since around the time of The Astonishing tour. I think mainly it's been technical (ie. pushing, getting off the breath, high larynx, etc) but whether he has sustained another vocal (re)injury during that timeline or just before this tour, we simply don't know. If I were inclined to think that they could be more forthcoming about anything, I would hope it is more about this. I can see that you and I both care about his vocal wellbeing so if he actually did reinjure his voice I think it may also clear the air for us to know. Because well, as his fans we do care.
-
This discussion is giving me flashbacks to when my band was recording our first demo. I wanted to do multiple keyboard layers with lots of depth and orchestration. But the rest of the band had a rule that the album could only feature things that could be reproduced live, so I had to simplify my keyboard stuff to what I could perform on stage without piping anything in. It frustrated me because I felt I wasn't able to fully express my creativity. But majority rules, I guess.
-
Day after the show and it was amazing. I would say it was better, performance and sound wise, here in The Moody Blues Theater. The venue was smaller than I thought, and I like how close we were even in the balcony. The seats were pretty steep with small foot space so many of us sat down.
It was awesome how the people in front of us started swaying there phones for TMOLS and others catching on and doing the same. I have no idea if the bottom levels were doing it, but there were quite a lot of people doing it and it was nice.
Then for the encore break, the entire place lit up with peoples phone lights.
It was great, but also funny because JP made the same mishap as in the Mesa show, only on a different song. He forgot to change the patch for the end of TMOLS.
The band sounded great, and the production of the show was good. Although, being in the balcony meant getting lights shined in our eyes, but it was still awesome seeing the full production, which is vastly different from seeing the show close up to the band.
JLB also said he needed to go home and drew a blank for what to say.
Arch Echo was amazing and I think they're utilizing the availability of the click because their light show was fantastic and on point with their songs.
It was also funny getting to hear Mangini sing a bit after he threw a bottle cap and it was still on stage.
-
On that JLB video, seeing the commentary in the fanbase outside DTF, I totally understand why he’s pissed. It’s far from my favorite song, and I don’t think it would be actually advisable to do this, but it would be cathartic to see them break out Never Enough. I’ve always maintained that MP was exactly right about a certain kind of fan.
Eh, I would hope James would never stoop to the level of embracing the embarrassing lyrics to Never Enough. While I get the sentiment Portnoy was going for in them, the lyrics themselves are not good, IMO (sorry, Mike, if you were neglecting your family, that's on you :P).
I think the emphasis on physical violence and self-harm imagery is something that understandably turns a lot of people off, although I personally don't mind it. People sometimes make fun of the "brand new floor" line, but I think that's meant to be funny.
I do think I interpret the "neglect my kids and wife" line somewhat differently from you. I don't think he's blaming the bad fans for his choice to do that; I think it's more like "It's ridiculous that you complain that I don't do enough for you and I only care about myself when the reality is the opposite: I'm doing too much for you, to my own detriment." I take that line as a moment of real self-awareness, actually, which is an interesting dimension for a song that's primarily about criticizing other people.
It's about being polished. The band is so advanced and polished now, and their use of technology just serves to create an even more polished finished product. If technology enhances the atmosphere of an elevated total experience, then I say it's a positive addition.
That is definitely the way that JP looks at it. Which is why they do this now, instead of the MP style, different setlist each night, fly by the seat of your pants, live without a net method.
Both approaches have strengths and weaknesses, but for now anyway, JP is going with the former.
"Live without a net" captures one aspect of what I like about the MP approach. To me, part of the thrill of a live show, especially for prog, is the fact that these five (or however many) guys on stage are responsible for making every sound I'm hearing, live and in the moment.
There are definitely advantages to the JP way, especially when it comes to the issue of being able to making more intricate, layered music without having to worry that it won't come off live. I'm a fan of symphonic metal bands like Nightwish and Epica, and it would be simply impossible for them to tour without using backing tracks, which free them to compose really interesting orchestral parts.
I understand why some people, like crystalstars, might not care about the "without a net" feel or the other things I like about the MP way (improvisations, tempo set by the drummer in the moment rather than the click, etc.), and prefer the more polished sound of the JP way. And I'm definitely not angry at the band for doing it the way they prefer. But I can't deny that when I see their live shows in the post-MP era, there is a part of me that says, "man, I wish I was hearing JP sing this part live and in the moment instead of this pre-recorded JLB backing track."
-
On that JLB video, seeing the commentary in the fanbase outside DTF, I totally understand why he’s pissed. It’s far from my favorite song, and I don’t think it would be actually advisable to do this, but it would be cathartic to see them break out Never Enough. I’ve always maintained that MP was exactly right about a certain kind of fan.
Eh, I would hope James would never stoop to the level of embracing the embarrassing lyrics to Never Enough. While I get the sentiment Portnoy was going for in them, the lyrics themselves are not good, IMO (sorry, Mike, if you were neglecting your family, that's on you :P).
I think the emphasis on physical violence and self-harm imagery is something that understandably turns a lot of people off, although I personally don't mind it. People sometimes make fun of the "brand new floor" line, but I think that's meant to be funny.
I do think I interpret the "neglect my kids and wife" line somewhat differently from you. I don't think he's blaming the bad fans for his choice to do that; I think it's more like "It's ridiculous that you complain that I don't do enough for you and I only care about myself when the reality is the opposite: I'm doing too much for you, to my own detriment." I take that line as a moment of real self-awareness, actually, which is an interesting dimension for a song that's primarily about criticizing other people.
I don't think the first one is meant to be "funny," per se, but I don't think it is meant to be taken literally either. I think both of the lines you cite (and the lyrics as a whole) are just meant to be exaggerated and melodramatic to make the types of points you mention. I get that that doesn't land with a lot of people. But I think a lot of those people also just don't get what he is doing and what the song is about, and they either (a) take it all literally, (b) take it to be a criticism of fans in general as opposed to that very specific situation with the stalker fans, or both.
It's about being polished. The band is so advanced and polished now, and their use of technology just serves to create an even more polished finished product. If technology enhances the atmosphere of an elevated total experience, then I say it's a positive addition.
That is definitely the way that JP looks at it. Which is why they do this now, instead of the MP style, different setlist each night, fly by the seat of your pants, live without a net method.
Both approaches have strengths and weaknesses, but for now anyway, JP is going with the former.
"Live without a net" captures one aspect of what I like about the MP approach. To me, part of the thrill of a live show, especially for prog, is the fact that these five (or however many) guys on stage are responsible for making every sound I'm hearing, live and in the moment.
There are definitely advantages to the JP way, especially when it comes to the issue of being able to making more intricate, layered music without having to worry that it won't come off live. I'm a fan of symphonic metal bands like Nightwish and Epica, and it would be simply impossible for them to tour without using backing tracks, which free them to compose really interesting orchestral parts.
I understand why some people, like crystalstars, might not care about the "without a net" feel or the other things I like about the MP way (improvisations, tempo set by the drummer in the moment rather than the click, etc.), and prefer the more polished sound of the JP way. And I'm definitely not angry at the band for doing it the way they prefer. But I can't deny that when I see their live shows in the post-MP era, there is a part of me that says, "man, I wish I was hearing JP sing this part live and in the moment instead of this pre-recorded JLB backing track."
I get that they are just different approaches. I can't really say which is "better" because I don't think "better" is a proper consideration. It's just a question of preference, and I can't really say what I prefer. There are aspects of either approach that I think yield more preferable results.
-
I think the emphasis on physical violence and self-harm imagery is something that understandably turns a lot of people off, although I personally don't mind it. People sometimes make fun of the "brand new floor" line, but I think that's meant to be funny.
I do think I interpret the "neglect my kids and wife" line somewhat differently from you. I don't think he's blaming the bad fans for his choice to do that; I think it's more like "It's ridiculous that you complain that I don't do enough for you and I only care about myself when the reality is the opposite: I'm doing too much for you, to my own detriment." I take that line as a moment of real self-awareness, actually, which is an interesting dimension for a song that's primarily about criticizing other people.
I don't think the first one is meant to be "funny," per se, but I don't think it is meant to be taken literally either. I think both of the lines you cite (and the lyrics as a whole) are just meant to be exaggerated and melodramatic to make the types of points you mention. I get that that doesn't land with a lot of people. But I think a lot of those people also just don't get what he is doing and what the song is about, and they either (a) take it all literally, (b) take it to be a criticism of fans in general as opposed to that very specific situation with the stalker fans, or both.
I guess I didn't mean laugh-out-loud funny, but more that the image of this guy standing there complaining about his floor to someone who's bleeding out is meant to be ridiculous to highlight how ridiculous MP thinks these particular fans are.
-
It's sad to see that James is letting the comments get under his skin, especially since, by the vast majority of accounts, this tour has been a huge success and nearly everyone who's reported back from a show seems to have been delighted with their evening.
I've gone back and forth on it a bit myself, and personally, I no longer care that DT use backing tracks. Their shows are not just raw live music anymore; they are delivering a much more "state of the art" production than I remember from seeing them back in the day, one that seems to maintain consistently high level of quality. Would it be nice to see them do things in a more "old school" way? Maybe. Maybe not. I honestly can't say. What I can say is that I was very happy with the show I saw on the latest tour.
-
It's sad to see that James is letting the comments get under his skin, especially since, by the vast majority of accounts, this tour has been a huge success and nearly everyone who's reported back from a show seems to have been delighted with their evening.
While I think this could have been handled differently, I can understand his frustration and anger. He's been taking shit for years from trolls that think he should be replaced or make YouTube videos on his fuck ups. I'll bet a dollar that DT has a Social Media Admin that is responsible not only the DT content they put out but also reviewing content that's put out there on the I-Net like say - this board. MP for years used to do this for years and he fought back when he didn't like the criticism.
Also, how do we know that his comments weren't a calculated way to bring attention to the band. What do they say about even bad press is good press?
-
Well DT wouldn't have to look much further than this thread. And the fact blabbermouth has made articles before referencing DTF, it would be no surprise to me that the band got wind of such comments directly from here. I'm not too sure they go through the youtube videos, they kind of feel disconnected in that way from the fan base as they don't embrace anything from the fans (you don't see their social media sharing fan content at all). I know it's not the same, but I filmed a Tallah song last fall and their singer actually commented on my youtube video thanking me for filming because it helps them understand the sound and image they project.
-
I think he (or the band, at least) had to address it in some form, given that it really does seem like the backing track was pushed so far to the front of the mix at some shows that people were honestly confused. I think people should have given him the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming the worst and being snide and combative about it, but an explanation was warranted (even though the confusion was not his fault).
-
I think he (or the band, at least) had to address it in some form, given that it really does seem like the backing track was pushed so far to the front of the mix at some shows that people were honestly confused. I think people should have given him the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming the worst and being snide and combative about it, but an explanation was warranted (even though the confusion was not his fault).
Agreed with all of that.
-
I do think I interpret the "neglect my kids and wife" line somewhat differently from you. I don't think he's blaming the bad fans for his choice to do that; I think it's more like "It's ridiculous that you complain that I don't do enough for you and I only care about myself when the reality is the opposite: I'm doing too much for you, to my own detriment." I take that line as a moment of real self-awareness, actually, which is an interesting dimension for a song that's primarily about criticizing other people.
My interpretation is pretty close to yours. Wasn't necessarily meant to "blame". It is a bitter lyric, I'll give you that, but that's part of the emotion of setting your thoughts to music.
I understand why some people, like crystalstars, might not care about the "without a net" feel or the other things I like about the MP way (improvisations, tempo set by the drummer in the moment rather than the click, etc.), and prefer the more polished sound of the JP way. And I'm definitely not angry at the band for doing it the way they prefer. But I can't deny that when I see their live shows in the post-MP era, there is a part of me that says, "man, I wish I was hearing JP sing this part live and in the moment instead of this pre-recorded JLB backing track."
I've been thinking about this a lot since I read it, and I think Crystalstars is onto something in terms of eras and generations. I grew up with Zeppelin and the Dead. 6:00 songs on record stretched to 30 minutes or more live. I saw Temple Of The Dog play "Achilles Last Stand" live a couple years ago, and they NAILED it, and the reason they nailed it, is because Matt Cameron let the song breathe. It wasn't timed to the light show, it was "timed" to the feel and ebb and flow of the musicians. I've seen both kinds of shows, and I've loved both kinds of shows. I don't think one is right or wrong, it's a matter of what matters to you. I can and do enjoy both for what they are.
-
I do think I interpret the "neglect my kids and wife" line somewhat differently from you. I don't think he's blaming the bad fans for his choice to do that; I think it's more like "It's ridiculous that you complain that I don't do enough for you and I only care about myself when the reality is the opposite: I'm doing too much for you, to my own detriment." I take that line as a moment of real self-awareness, actually, which is an interesting dimension for a song that's primarily about criticizing other people.
Exactly.
Also, how do we know that his comments weren't a calculated way to bring attention to the band. What do they say about even bad press is good press?
I don't think so. If it was, in a way, I'd say it backfired and created more of the "Streisand effect" by bringing more attention to it than previously. I'm seeing tons of discussion about it in a Facebook group, whereas I don't think there was much if any before the Houston show.
-
LOL at calling the live shows of all the great rock bands of the 60s and 70s a "hot mess". Such a ridiculous statement.
It would be that yes if I were saying that about the bands themselves, but I'm not. I'm referring specifically to their production quality. Granted they didn't have access to the advancements that are available now. But imagine if they had? What a beautiful thing that would've been.
One could argue that a truly great band doesn't need a great production quality. Get out there and play your music and that ought to speak for itself, right? I remember seeing a performance of I'm So Afraid by Fleetwood Mac from the 70s where it was outside, I think it was a little windy, and there was no fancy production or anything, just five people on stage playing their song and kicking ass. That is music in its purest form. :hat :hat
-
Day after the show and it was amazing. I would say it was better, performance and sound wise, here in The Moody Blues Theater. The venue was smaller than I thought, and I like how close we were even in the balcony. The seats were pretty steep with small foot space so many of us sat down.
It was awesome how the people in front of us started swaying there phones for TMOLS and others catching on and doing the same. I have no idea if the bottom levels were doing it, but there were quite a lot of people doing it and it was nice.
Then for the encore break, the entire place lit up with peoples phone lights.
It was great, but also funny because JP made the same mishap as in the Mesa show, only on a different song. He forgot to change the patch for the end of TMOLS.
The band sounded great, and the production of the show was good. Although, being in the balcony meant getting lights shined in our eyes, but it was still awesome seeing the full production, which is vastly different from seeing the show close up to the band.
JLB also said he needed to go home and drew a blank for what to say.
Arch Echo was amazing and I think they're utilizing the availability of the click because their light show was fantastic and on point with their songs.
It was also funny getting to hear Mangini sing a bit after he threw a bottle cap and it was still on stage.
I was waiting for your shout Ben :)
Very enjoyable show. Surprised with James' performance, he sang well, no weird enunciations, kept it within his current range.
what shocked me was the price of the merch for both DT and AE :(
-
Was there anything special at the show last night to mark the end of the tour?
-
One could argue that a truly great band doesn't need a great production quality.
Sure, one could argue that. And I would agree that no band "needs" that. But it has nothing to do with whether great production can make for a good show or whether it is desirable for any number of reasons.
-
Day after the show and it was amazing. I would say it was better, performance and sound wise, here in The Moody Blues Theater. The venue was smaller than I thought, and I like how close we were even in the balcony. The seats were pretty steep with small foot space so many of us sat down.
It was awesome how the people in front of us started swaying there phones for TMOLS and others catching on and doing the same. I have no idea if the bottom levels were doing it, but there were quite a lot of people doing it and it was nice.
Then for the encore break, the entire place lit up with peoples phone lights.
It was great, but also funny because JP made the same mishap as in the Mesa show, only on a different song. He forgot to change the patch for the end of TMOLS.
The band sounded great, and the production of the show was good. Although, being in the balcony meant getting lights shined in our eyes, but it was still awesome seeing the full production, which is vastly different from seeing the show close up to the band.
JLB also said he needed to go home and drew a blank for what to say.
Arch Echo was amazing and I think they're utilizing the availability of the click because their light show was fantastic and on point with their songs.
It was also funny getting to hear Mangini sing a bit after he threw a bottle cap and it was still on stage.
I was there too in the front row of mezzanine. Epic show. Even with already knowing the setlist and everything else to expect, it still blew me away. They were all on fire and so locked in with each other.
The Mangini singing bit was a fun little extra treat. Did I hear James say "I'm really drunk" at one point? I thought so, but it was a little hard to understand some of his stage raps. He was acting a little goofy and seemed disconnected at times, but I thought he sang fine for the voice he has today.
And even though I originally questioned The Count of Tuscany as an encore, I must say it made for an absolutely perfect ending to the evening. The crowd roared when that intro started. Man, I can't wait until they come back around again!
-
While it can be argued that DT's use of backing tracks was a sudden change, it has been their way of doing things for more than a decade now so I've had plenty of time to become accustomed to it. I prefer the old way, but I have accepted that this is the kind of show they are giving us right now. But I wouldn't be disappointed if they gave us a more raw live show sometime in the future.
And as far as JP doing live backing vocals... I LOVE the falsetto lines he sang on In the Name of God at Budokan. I believe he did the same on The Ones Who Help to Set the Sun on WDADR. If I remember right, those vocals were much more apparent on either the CD or the DVD of that show, but I don't remember which.
I thought the same thing about JP's vocals on When Day and Dream Reunite but at the time, I hadn't heard much of their live stuff and didn't realize how much backing vocals Portnoy did. Now I am wondering if that's mostly Portnoy we are hearing on The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun. Can anyone clarify?
-
I think this discussion has become a bit too toxic, but I feel like there's the need to clarify a few things here.
This whole recent "incident" didn't spark from the fact that DT uses a lot of backing tracks for their live shows. That's been the case for the last 11+ years, there's no real reason for it to become a problem "just now". And IMO, there's nothing wrong with that, as that's the kind of show they want to present and they feel like it's best to do it that way. They aren't a 10-piece band with multiple singers or two guitarists/keyboardists, etc. They might do a few exceptions (Metropolis or TCOT intros) but other than that most of what you're hearing, specially in the playing/instrumental department, is being played live on the spot. And the've said that (specially Jordan, most recently) they approach it in the "let's reproduce as much as we can live with our two hands" fashion. Anything else that's added to the piped in tracks is because there's layers and layers of other stuff that they can't simultaneously play anyway. Again, there's nothing wrong with that approach either.
So, what's the big deal then? That it's become apparent to some people that there's certain spots in one specific song where it seems like the "backing track" vocals are doing the heavy lifting at least for those couple sections. Now, if you look at this carefully, I'm using words like "it seems" and so on because we can't ever be 100% sure of what's happening without actually being there with the band and crew and to see what gets piped in and what not. However, there seems to be some evidence to support that statement, coming from different people at different shows and shot from different angles. And that's a completely different topic/discussion than just them using backing tracks to enhance their performance, which shouldn't be the main issue at discussion.
The real issue instead is should the backing tracks overpower/replace what is actually happening live? Because then it just doesn't feel like an honest performance anymore, even if that's just for a few seconds anyway. And again, full disclaimer: I don't have any issues with them using backing tracks at all, and I'd say most people here don't either. But that's not what this whole "incident" is about.
And as for James' response, I have nothing but love and respect for him and all he's done for the band in his more than 30 years with them, but he quite didn't address the real thing either. Is he lip-syncing? Maybe not, and he obviously said he isn't. But again, the real question here isn't if he's lip-syncing, but if he's "cheating" for a couple bars on that particular song and letting the piped in vocals handle it while he prepares for the next section. And that he didn't address at all, he just started cursing people who brought things up. And that's at best a fallacy.
-
One could argue that a truly great band doesn't need a great production quality.
Sure, one could argue that. And I would agree that no band "needs" that. But it has nothing to do with whether great production can make for a good show or whether it is desirable for any number of reasons.
That is true, but to circle back to the main point of discussion as of late, I think the backing track/lip synch thing stands out a bit much because of how produced the DT concerts have gotten in general. Everything seems so rigorously planned to where there seems to be little to no spontaneity at their concerts now, and the "appearance" that James was getting a bit of help at times with a backing track I think just added to the frustration that some have regarding the band's live performances now and how they present them. I agree with the comments that it is great that DT is touring again following the last few years of uncertainty for concerts in general, but I am just viewing through the lens of DT shows over the years and contextualizing it a little, if that makes sense.
-
I think this discussion has become a bit too toxic, but I feel like there's the need to clarify a few things here.
This whole recent "incident" didn't spark from the fact that DT uses a lot of backing tracks for their live shows. That's been the case for the last 11+ years, there's no real reason for it to become a problem "just now". And IMO, there's nothing wrong with that, as that's the kind of show they want to present and they feel like it's best to do it that way. They aren't a 10-piece band with multiple singers or two guitarists/keyboardists, etc. They might do a few exceptions (Metropolis or TCOT intros) but other than that most of what you're hearing, specially in the playing/instrumental department, is being played live on the spot. And the've said that (specially Jordan, most recently) they approach it in the "let's reproduce as much as we can live with our two hands" fashion. Anything else that's added to the piped in tracks is because there's layers and layers of other stuff that they can't simultaneously play anyway. Again, there's nothing wrong with that approach either.
So, what's the big deal then? That it's become apparent to some people that there's certain spots in one specific song where it seems like the "backing track" vocals are doing the heavy lifting at least for those couple sections. Now, if you look at this carefully, I'm using words like "it seems" and so on because we can't ever be 100% sure of what's happening without actually being there with the band and crew and to see what gets piped in and what not. However, there seems to be some evidence to support that statement, coming from different people at different shows and shot from different angles. And that's a completely different topic/discussion than just them using backing tracks to enhance their performance, which shouldn't be the main issue at discussion.
The real issue instead is should the backing tracks overpower/replace what is actually happening live? Because then it just doesn't feel like an honest performance anymore, even if that's just for a few seconds anyway. And again, full disclaimer: I don't have any issues with them using backing tracks at all, and I'd say most people here don't either. But that's not what this whole "incident" is about.
And as for James' response, I have nothing but love and respect for him and all he's done for the band in his more than 30 years with them, but he quite didn't address the real thing either. Is he lip-syncing? Maybe not, and he obviously said he isn't. But again, the real question here isn't if he's lip-syncing, but if he's "cheating" for a couple bars on that particular song and letting the piped in vocals handle it while he prepares for the next section. And that he didn't address at all, he just started cursing people who brought things up. And that's at best a fallacy.
Well said. I had to go back a few pages to read more about the controversy after I saw an article about it. People here kept muddying up the waters by talking about "backing vocals". The video I saw was not backing vocals but lead vocals. However, I didn't know what to make of it as it was uploaded by that guy who was banned from the forum & who fucking hates all things post-Portnoy DT.
I'd really have to check out the other videos that were linked in this thread but if LaBrie is doing what Petrucci does where the recorded track is like 95% louder than his mic, then yeah that's not cool. But if it's only for few seconds on one song, I don't think that would keep me from wanting to see the band live.
-
Do you think the band might scale back some of the piped in stuff given the backlash recently?
More specifically, do you think the next legs of this tour will see that section of BITS handled a different way - or perhaps the song might be dropped altogether?
-
More specifically, do you think the next legs of this tour will see that section of BITS handled a different way - or perhaps the song might be dropped altogether?
I think they'll do it just like they have for the upcoming European tour. I also believe the song will be replaced if they do a second US leg.
-
Day after the show and it was amazing. I would say it was better, performance and sound wise, here in The Moody Blues Theater. The venue was smaller than I thought, and I like how close we were even in the balcony. The seats were pretty steep with small foot space so many of us sat down.
It was awesome how the people in front of us started swaying there phones for TMOLS and others catching on and doing the same. I have no idea if the bottom levels were doing it, but there were quite a lot of people doing it and it was nice.
Then for the encore break, the entire place lit up with peoples phone lights.
It was great, but also funny because JP made the same mishap as in the Mesa show, only on a different song. He forgot to change the patch for the end of TMOLS.
The band sounded great, and the production of the show was good. Although, being in the balcony meant getting lights shined in our eyes, but it was still awesome seeing the full production, which is vastly different from seeing the show close up to the band.
JLB also said he needed to go home and drew a blank for what to say.
Arch Echo was amazing and I think they're utilizing the availability of the click because their light show was fantastic and on point with their songs.
It was also funny getting to hear Mangini sing a bit after he threw a bottle cap and it was still on stage.
I was there too in the front row of mezzanine. Epic show. Even with already knowing the setlist and everything else to expect, it still blew me away. They were all on fire and so locked in with each other.
The Mangini singing bit was a fun little extra treat. Did I hear James say "I'm really drunk" at one point? I thought so, but it was a little hard to understand some of his stage raps. He was acting a little goofy and seemed disconnected at times, but I thought he sang fine for the voice he has today.
And even though I originally questioned The Count of Tuscany as an encore, I must say it made for an absolutely perfect ending to the evening. The crowd roared when that intro started. Man, I can't wait until they come back around again!
I thought he was taking to the people on the floor, asking them, "Are you already drunk?"and to stand still and stay in their seats.
-
People demanding an honest performance from James and then when he does and end up not hitting the notes, they start posting he is the weakest link in the band and make threads of who is the best replacement vocalist.
-
The real issue instead is should the backing tracks overpower/replace what is actually happening live? Because then it just doesn't feel like an honest performance anymore, even if that's just for a few seconds anyway. And again, full disclaimer: I don't have any issues with them using backing tracks at all, and I'd say most people here don't either. But that's not what this whole "incident" is about.
And as for James' response, I have nothing but love and respect for him and all he's done for the band in his more than 30 years with them, but he quite didn't address the real thing either. Is he lip-syncing? Maybe not, and he obviously said he isn't. But again, the real question here isn't if he's lip-syncing, but if he's "cheating" for a couple bars on that particular song and letting the piped in vocals handle it while he prepares for the next section. And that he didn't address at all, he just started cursing people who brought things up. And that's at best a fallacy.
Spot on. Agreed 100%. That's the main issue i have, i'm ok with James altering melodies (even the band downtuning some songs), but it feels a bit dishonest.
-
It would be really cool if they did at least a tour without any backing tracks and even without click track. It's not that I really care if they're having some help or think they must not have but I'd really like to hear it, it would be different and (I think) very fun experience. JP could handle some back vocals just fine, he has a nice timbre even though he's not the best singer.
People demanding an honest performance from James and then when he does and end up not hitting the notes, they start posting he is the weakest link in the band and make threads of who is the best replacement vocalist.
Yeah maybe but it's not about that. Someone somewhere doesn't like any member of the band, I heard it all :lol They don't do it because of internet posters. It's probably because they want to sound better produced and richer live. Rush did the same with backing vocals :biggrin:
-
The real issue instead is should the backing tracks overpower/replace what is actually happening live? Because then it just doesn't feel like an honest performance anymore, even if that's just for a few seconds anyway. And again, full disclaimer: I don't have any issues with them using backing tracks at all, and I'd say most people here don't either. But that's not what this whole "incident" is about.
I didn't mean to cloud the discussion or anything by taking it in a wider backing tracks direction, I just think that this whole situation came as a logical conclusion of them being polished to the point that they will use every track from the album that they can't or won't try to reproduce live. If you need the sound to be extremely full because now it's a produced show, every single doubled vocal line from the albums is going to be in there, and it's going to be loud, and then who can say if it was a case of a too loud backing vocal tape overpowering James, or whether James was even singing, or whether he was willingly letting the track take over a bit more but then didn't calculate how little of him we'd be hearing at that volume, or any of the other options we discussed?
When you have backing tapes to that extent where (I haven't checked but it seems like it to me) close to every single harmony from the albums is present, but no humans singing other than James, this is what you get imo. If he was lip syncing and then corrected himself in the shows after, it's due to this mindset that crafted the show, that says we need perfection and polish and enhancements, because god forbid a workaround for James in that song can't be reproduced night after night and we get some inconsistency - whether it's, say, JP singing along with a much lower volume true backing vocal tape, oh, horror and inconsistency, or James taking over the whole section as it is on the album but then not hitting the "big" note in the end night after night due to being out of breath sometimes. Then when you contrast this overly cautious approach to this song with the rest of the set, where James does miss out on problem sections regularly, it gets even more mind-boggling.
-
"
Rush did the same with backing vocals :biggrin:
Yes indeed. When they played "Earthshine" on the Vapor Trails and R30 tours. Nobody ever complained about those backing tracks being present..
-
Well everything we've discussed here aside, and in acknowledgement of the title of this thread, this US leg of the AVFTTOTW tour is now over. It went by so fast!
What is heartbreaking is that it feels as if nothing has come out of it except negativity and negative press. It's very sad.
Alright, so my "feeling" type personality is showing here but my heart is just slightly heavy today. I do not participate there as it's generally toxic and this is a far better place, but I've read/lurked on Reddit, and the conversation there is heartbreaking! Over 130 posts about the "controversy" and maybe ten posts each in actual threads which positively discuss the music itself or the positive tour experiences of the fans. Our favorite band deserves better!
So at the end of this "awesome" tour that if we're completely honest with ourselves we have all greatly enjoyed, can we at least try to bring some positivity and praise for our boys.
I for one enjoyed this tour immensely. My one regret is not having gone to more shows. I loved the setlist. If I had a time machine today the first place I would go would be back to my eighth row center aisle seat in Wallingford. I would once again be awestruck by every moment of Jordan's playing, hearing my favorite new songs live, and finally hearing The Count of Tuscany live for the first time. I would relive how happy I was to hear James's voice sounding stronger and healthy, soaring notes connected to the breath without screaming or pushing, on every song.
After two full years of stress and uncertainties, seeing this show was like coming back to life.
What else would I say to them except THANK YOU. :heart
Let's turn this thread around, shall we? In keeping with the title of this thread, what were your favorite highlights of this tour? Come on, I know we can do this!
-
People demanding an honest performance from James and then when he does and end up not hitting the notes, they start posting he is the weakest link in the band and make threads of who is the best replacement vocalist.
Who has done that here, specifically?
"
Rush did the same with backing vocals :biggrin:
Yes indeed. When they played "Earthshine" on the Vapor Trails and R30 tours. Nobody ever complained about those backing tracks being present..
IIRC, the part in Earthshine where Geddy sang along with the backing track was in the layered wordless vocals before each chorus, and I recall from the Rio video that he is barely even singing along, so I don't think he was trying to give the impression that he was singing it live to fool anyone. I think that was just a case of them using the backing track of a part that was impossible to do live, kind of like when the harmonies were triggered in the call and response choruses of songs like Dreamline and Show Don't Tell. The "earthshine" line in the chorus was likely one he sang along with to a backing track as well since that is a harmony, while the rest of the chorus is just one Geddy (if my memory serves me right).
-
Well everything we've discussed here aside, and in acknowledgement of the title of this thread, this US leg of the AVFTTOTW tour is now over. It went by so fast!
What is heartbreaking is that it feels as if nothing has come out of it except negativity and negative press. It's very sad.
Alright, so my "feeling" type personality is showing here but my heart is just slightly heavy today. I do not participate there as it's generally toxic and this is a far better place, but I've read/lurked on Reddit, and the conversation there is heartbreaking! Over 130 posts about the "controversy" and maybe ten posts each in actual threads which positively discuss the music itself or the positive tour experiences of the fans. Our favorite band deserves better!
So at the end of this "awesome" tour that if we're completely honest with ourselves we have all greatly enjoyed, can we at least try to bring some positivity and praise for our boys.
I for one enjoyed this tour immensely. My one regret is not having gone to more shows. I loved the setlist. If I had a time machine today the first place I would go would be back to my eighth row center aisle seat in Wallingford. I would once again be awestruck by every moment of Jordan's playing, hearing my favorite new songs live, and finally hearing The Count of Tuscany live for the first time. I would relive how happy I was to hear James's voice sounding stronger and healthy, soaring notes connected to the breath without screaming or pushing, on every song.
After two full years of stress and uncertainties, seeing this show was like coming back to life.
What else would I say to them except THANK YOU. :heart
Let's turn this thread around, shall we? In keeping with the title of this thread, what were your favorite highlights of this tour? Come on, I know we can do this!
With the use of technology I must say, LOL, I AM KIDDING!!!
I would have loved to see the band live, last time they toured Lima, Colombia or Venezuela was, yesterday 12 years ago exactly. And I remember the 3 times I saw the band I was living in a dream, watching them playing my favorite songs. Man, I also think they deserve better from us fans. Hopefully sometime soon they can come to this side of the woods for me to enjoy them one more time.
-
Man, I also think they deserve better from us fans.
Wut??
I bought the album. All of the albums actually.
I bought the concert tickets. At least 20 shows.
I bought the concert t-shirt. At least 10 of them.
For almost 30 years, I have recommended Dream Theater to everyone I talk music with.
And I can't complain about something in their live show that I don't like?
Fuck that!
-
Man, I also think they deserve better from us fans.
Wut??
I bought the album. All of the albums actually.
I bought the concert tickets. At least 20 shows.
I bought the concert t-shirt. At least 10 of them.
For almost 30 years, I have recommended Dream Theater to everyone I talk music with.
And I can't complain about something in their live show that I don't like?
Fuck that!
Good for you!
I still think they deserve better, like or not.
-
Let's turn this thread around, shall we? In keeping with the title of this thread, what were your favorite highlights of this tour? Come on, I know we can do this!
Well, aside from the amazing musicianship (expected) and seeing a couple of songs I had not previously seen live (always a plus), at the Raleigh show there was a brief outbreak of goofiness between songs when JP threw a pick to JLB, who failed to catch it. Then Mike told JP to throw one to HIM, but he also failed to catch it. JP then threw a pick all the way across the stage to JR, who was the only band member to actually catch it, which brought applause from the crowd. JM was, of course, off stage.
That, and the pre-show meetup, which was fantastic.
-
Man, I also think they deserve better from us fans.
Wut??
I bought the album. All of the albums actually.
I bought the concert tickets. At least 20 shows.
I bought the concert t-shirt. At least 10 of them.
For almost 30 years, I have recommended Dream Theater to everyone I talk music with.
And I can't complain about something in their live show that I don't like?
Fuck that!
Good for you!
I still think they deserve better, like or not.
How so? They put out product. I've consumed it and recommended it. What else do they deserve? What more can I do?
-
My highlight of any DT tour is seeing a song played live that I have never seen before. So The Ministry of Lost Souls was my highlight of the evening.
I only knew a couple of their albums when I saw them live the first 2 or 3 times, a couple of decades ago. So there were some songs played then that I didn't know and couldn't appreciate at the time. Hopefully I will get another chance some day.
-
A highlight for me was '6:00'
I love that they brought it back, and I really appreciate the way James tackled the melody, making it a song he could consistently deliver. Makes me feel like other Awake-era songs could be given a second life with a similar approach.
Otherwise, I'm just so grateful that these guys are all still alive and healthy—after the last couple of years, that's saying something!
-
My highlight of any DT tour is seeing a song played live that I have never seen before. So The Ministry of Lost Souls was my highlight of the evening.
I was really happy to see it as well. I think the song is way underrated and live, it totally delivered.
-
Man, I also think they deserve better from us fans.
Wut??
I bought the album. All of the albums actually.
I bought the concert tickets. At least 20 shows.
I bought the concert t-shirt. At least 10 of them.
For almost 30 years, I have recommended Dream Theater to everyone I talk music with.
And I can't complain about something in their live show that I don't like?
Fuck that!
Good for you!
I still think they deserve better, like or not.
How so? They put out product. I've consumed it and recommended it. What else do they deserve? What more can I do?
Well, I understand your point of view, but there is no use banging your head against the wall to try and make a band you've stopped liking (as much as you used to) change. Life's so short, there are so many other bands out there that go unnoticed. Why not refocus the DT complaining to something more productive, like supporting a new band you can 100% get behind?
-
Man, I also think they deserve better from us fans.
Wut??
I bought the album. All of the albums actually.
I bought the concert tickets. At least 20 shows.
I bought the concert t-shirt. At least 10 of them.
For almost 30 years, I have recommended Dream Theater to everyone I talk music with.
And I can't complain about something in their live show that I don't like?
Fuck that!
Whoa man. Language. James said the F word in concert a week ago and people got thrown into a tizzy. ;D
Let's turn this thread around, shall we? In keeping with the title of this thread, what were your favorite highlights of this tour? Come on, I know we can do this!
First, I was surprised I could go. I was on the verge of giving away my ticket on this board but covid numbers had gone down just enough, and I finally found a kn95 mask that fit my big dumb head so I took a shot. My family needed to be extra cautious so I was psyched it worked out.
Other than that, here's the thing, the DT concert was more or less what I've seen in the previous dozen plus times I've seen them. Awesome show. Great presentation.
I wasn't in love with the setlist BUT I do love how bold it was. Kind of like when they toured in 2014 and played half of Awake, half of SFAM, and none from I&W. Kind of cool.
Aside from the new songs, which was the main reason I went, I loved Endless Sacrifice. Forgot how much I loved that song actually. Also the Ministry of Lost Souls which I was surprised to hear people singing along to. Really came across great in a live setting and that surprised me. I loved the transition from About to Crash. So basically I've praised most of the setlist even though I said I wasn't a fan. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I could have done without TCOT. Even that I sucked it up and made myself enjoy it. Great show!
-
I would have loved to see the band live, last time they toured Lima, Colombia or Venezuela was, yesterday 12 years ago exactly. And I remember the 3 times I saw the band I was living in a dream, watching them playing my favorite songs. Man, I also think they deserve better from us fans. Hopefully sometime soon they can come to this side of the woods for me to enjoy them one more time.
We han hope :metal
-
Oh yeah....
JLB did not sing the ending woahs to The Count of Tuscany. But, he did point the mic out to the audience and sang the last couple of woahs. I could hear the audience singing at parts of the set too. I know this one guy in front of me was singing away as well. JLB was happy with our woahs. Which I did not hear people sing much of at the Mesa show.
I am glad the people in Austin sang the Woahs because that end section is one of the best live ending moments.
-
Man, I also think they deserve better from us fans.
Wut??
I bought the album. All of the albums actually.
I bought the concert tickets. At least 20 shows.
I bought the concert t-shirt. At least 10 of them.
For almost 30 years, I have recommended Dream Theater to everyone I talk music with.
And I can't complain about something in their live show that I don't like?
Fuck that!
But are you grateful that the band has been around long enough to give you that entitlement to criticize them.
I myself am grateful I even get to travel to see a Dream Theater show. Most people are and most fans are having a blast at the shows. Most don't even care about the live aspect as they mainly care about getting to hear a certain song being played by the band. This was the show where they did play a lot of my favorites.
Also, when that part of BITS came up, JLB made sure to face the audience and had a serious look on his face while doing it.
Also, the mix again is very subtle with his lead vocals and backing vocal difference that it can be hard to pick up what he is singing in a recorded video. But when you're there at the venue, you can hear the difference of his live vocals.
-
I loved every aspect of this show. I saw it 3 times. My highlights were:
ES. Is that a kick butt song live or what?
Epics (or not quite epics). I love the epics. I don't listen to MOLS much, but live it was fab and the middle rocking part is just awesome.
TCOT. It is a top 5 song. It is a great closer. The middle solo is beautiful and emotional. It is my son's #1 DT song, he didn't know they
were going to play it, so to see his excitement was The top moment. Rhapsody in Blue. I didn't notice it in Oakland or Denver. Did it get put
in later, or was I just not paying attention..Even by the 3rd show, The Count lost none of its shine.
The middle and jamming part after on A View.
Taking by best girlfriend to her 1st show and the preshow I hosted. With 20 people! (if you haven't been to one, they are really fun!)
...and even the FU. DT shows are pretty predictable and this was out of the norm and funny! I am glad I was there.
I cannot wait for the next show, whenever that is!
Signed, fangirl.
-
Man, I also think they deserve better from us fans.
Wut??
I bought the album. All of the albums actually.
I bought the concert tickets. At least 20 shows.
I bought the concert t-shirt. At least 10 of them.
For almost 30 years, I have recommended Dream Theater to everyone I talk music with.
And I can't complain about something in their live show that I don't like?
Fuck that!
But are you grateful that the band has been around long enough to give you that entitlement to criticize them.
Of course I am. I love Dream Theater. They've been my favorite band for my adult life. Does that mean I can't complain about something? Just because you go to the same pizza joint for 30 years, is it not OK to point out that geez, this pizza a little too well done.
I'm not entitled to jack shit.
I just take issue with the word "deserve". They got me to buy their product. They "deserve" nothing more or nothing less.
-
Man, I also think they deserve better from us fans.
Wut??
I bought the album. All of the albums actually.
I bought the concert tickets. At least 20 shows.
I bought the concert t-shirt. At least 10 of them.
For almost 30 years, I have recommended Dream Theater to everyone I talk music with.
And I can't complain about something in their live show that I don't like?
Fuck that!
Good for you!
I still think they deserve better, like or not.
How so? They put out product. I've consumed it and recommended it. What else do they deserve? What more can I do?
Well, I understand your point of view, but there is no use banging your head against the wall to try and make a band you've stopped liking (as much as you used to) change. Life's so short, there are so many other bands out there that go unnoticed. Why not refocus the DT complaining to something more productive, like supporting a new band you can 100% get behind?
Some people aren't wired that way. There's not ONE band I am 100% behind in that way. Genesis, top five band; yet I dislike several aspects of their music/concert presentation. But when I hear Cul-de-sac, or One For The Vine and get goose-bumps, it's all forgotten. I love Kiss more than anyone here, but Shandi BLOWS. Carnival of Souls is not an album I will likely ever listen to again. Hooligan (won't go to school again) is an embarrassing song. Okay, so? There are many people here that think Kiss is a joke; here's the deal: when I'm driving down the road listening to Flaming Youth at 11, I'm not thinking of those people not one little bit. It doesn't impact my life even one iota. We can all coexist.
Why is there so much push back on comments that aren't 100% glowing? It doesn't affect anyone here; it's not an indictment of what anyone else likes, it's an opinion.
EDIT: And I'm with TAC: what do any of us "deserve"? "Deserve" is a made-up word to me.
-
Oh, and another thing. Since MP left, DT and their product has been more "transactional" than ever. Gone are the little extras for the fans.
-
How so? They put out product. I've consumed it and recommended it. What else do they deserve? What more can I do?
Well, I understand your point of view, but there is no use banging your head against the wall to try and make a band you've stopped liking (as much as you used to) change. Life's so short, there are so many other bands out there that go unnoticed. Why not refocus the DT complaining to something more productive, like supporting a new band you can 100% get behind?
I', not a negative person by nature. But it's a discussion point, and well, frankly a complaint. It's no big deal and won't stop me from loving Dream Theater.
-
Oh, and another thing. Since MP left, DT and their product has been more "transactional" than ever. Gone are the little extras for the fans.
That's for sure! I love MM - and I think their recent output has been phenomenal for a band this late in their career. So I'm not a bring back Portnoy guy in the least (I prefer MM stays in the band until they retire). But all the little extra things that MP would do for us fans - to me that's what made Dream Theater special and helped to set them apart from other bands. So MP deserves all that credit AFAIC.
-
I thought the same thing about JP's vocals on When Day and Dream Reunite but at the time, I hadn't heard much of their live stuff and didn't realize how much backing vocals Portnoy did. Now I am wondering if that's mostly Portnoy we are hearing on The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun. Can anyone clarify?
Nope. It's JP:
https://youtu.be/j72Q0WiyoBc?t=298
Rush did the same with backing vocals :biggrin:
Yes indeed. When they played "Earthshine" on the Vapor Trails and R30 tours. Nobody ever complained about those backing tracks being present..
IIRC, the part in Earthshine where Geddy sang along with the backing track was in the layered wordless vocals before each chorus, and I recall from the Rio video that he is barely even singing along, so I don't think he was trying to give the impression that he was singing it live to fool anyone. I think that was just a case of them using the backing track of a part that was impossible to do live, kind of like when the harmonies were triggered in the call and response choruses of songs like Dreamline and Show Don't Tell. The "earthshine" line in the chorus was likely one he sang along with to a backing track as well since that is a harmony, while the rest of the chorus is just one Geddy (if my memory serves me right).
Nevermind every thing they did was manually triggered - they weren't simply playing along to a recording. So while Geddy may not have been able to singing both vocal lines simultaneously, one of the guys would trigger that recorded vocal manually, and was thereby in a way still performing it.
-
Man, I also think they deserve better from us fans.
Wut??
I bought the album. All of the albums actually.
I bought the concert tickets. At least 20 shows.
I bought the concert t-shirt. At least 10 of them.
For almost 30 years, I have recommended Dream Theater to everyone I talk music with.
And I can't complain about something in their live show that I don't like?
Fuck that!
Good for you!
I still think they deserve better, like or not.
How so? They put out product. I've consumed it and recommended it. What else do they deserve? What more can I do?
Well, I understand your point of view, but there is no use banging your head against the wall to try and make a band you've stopped liking (as much as you used to) change. Life's so short, there are so many other bands out there that go unnoticed. Why not refocus the DT complaining to something more productive, like supporting a new band you can 100% get behind?
Some people aren't wired that way. There's not ONE band I am 100% behind in that way. Genesis, top five band; yet I dislike several aspects of their music/concert presentation. But when I hear Cul-de-sac, or One For The Vine and get goose-bumps, it's all forgotten. I love Kiss more than anyone here, but Shandi BLOWS. Carnival of Souls is not an album I will likely ever listen to again. Hooligan (won't go to school again) is an embarrassing song. Okay, so? There are many people here that think Kiss is a joke; here's the deal: when I'm driving down the road listening to Flaming Youth at 11, I'm not thinking of those people not one little bit. It doesn't impact my life even one iota. We can all coexist.
Why is there so much push back on comments that aren't 100% glowing? It doesn't affect anyone here; it's not an indictment of what anyone else likes, it's an opinion.
EDIT: And I'm with TAC: what do any of us "deserve"? "Deserve" is a made-up word to me.
I agree with you and TAC about the word "deserve".
Man, I also think they deserve better from us fans.
Wut??
I bought the album. All of the albums actually.
I bought the concert tickets. At least 20 shows.
I bought the concert t-shirt. At least 10 of them.
For almost 30 years, I have recommended Dream Theater to everyone I talk music with.
And I can't complain about something in their live show that I don't like?
Fuck that!
But are you grateful that the band has been around long enough to give you that entitlement to criticize them.
Of course I am. I love Dream Theater. They've been my favorite band for my adult life. Does that mean I can't complain about something? Just because you go to the same pizza joint for 30 years, is it not OK to point out that geez, this pizza a little too well done.
I'm not entitled to jack shit.
I just take issue with the word "deserve". They got me to buy their product. They "deserve" nothing more or nothing less.
Oh...okay. That word is an issue because we fans don't deserve jack either.
There are situations where you won't truly understand unless your in those shoes or have a perspective of the experience. Being a singer in a consistently touring band is not an easy job. It's a lot of pressure and can be mentally exhausting when your voice performance is affected by many various factors. If people expect perfect vocals, why not utilize technology that makes that possible? If people expect a live performance to be 100% played by the musicians, don't expect an intricate show and for it to be flawless. No show is 100% flawless, it's why those shows are special and why Spinal Tap is the best movie made for musicians because it presents how everything can and will go wrong.
Example, something happened during the encore break in Austin and Maddie had to turn a piece of equipment by Jimmy T, to reset it and make sure it working.
But as was said. Jordan and the others are into that side of technology anf it's capabilities for musicians to utilize. It's like saying yard work should be 100% done by humans and not the machines called lawnmowers, Leafblowers. It just makes the job easier to perform.
-
How so? They put out product. I've consumed it and recommended it. What else do they deserve? What more can I do?
Well, I understand your point of view, but there is no use banging your head against the wall to try and make a band you've stopped liking (as much as you used to) change. Life's so short, there are so many other bands out there that go unnoticed. Why not refocus the DT complaining to something more productive, like supporting a new band you can 100% get behind?
I', not a negative person by nature. But it's a discussion point, and well, frankly a complaint. It's no big deal and won't stop me from loving Dream Theater.
I also think it's worth bringing up because if fans never state their opinions on these issues, bands won't know what kind of response they're getting and what people prefer. Even though it sounds like DT is pretty much committed to their way of doing things, if they know that this is a concern some fans have, they can use that to think about how far they want to go with backing tracks. And people in other bands who are weighing these decisions can be informed by this feedback, too.
And I think it's perfectly possible to state your preference, your criticism, your complaint in a way that is respectful to the band and acknowledges the value you're gotten from their music—as TAC and many others in this thread have done.
-
Well, I don't think that all backing vocals were triggered but I'm sure a good 80% were triggered by the band members. As an example, during the Counterparts tour Alex would sing the backing low octave parts during the chorus and one time he wasn't where he was supposed to be and you heard all Geddy. He made back to the mic and it made me wonder if his voice triggered the sound effect or that was the sound guy.
It could be that the backing vocals are programmed like JR programs his keyboard and that's why the need a click but I see no difference between DT and Rush as to their approach of how they present the backing vocals. I mean, doesn't Matti have the ability to punch a certain pedal if JP doesn't make it back in time?
-
Of course I am. I love Dream Theater. They've been my favorite band for my adult life. Does that mean I can't complain about something? Just because you go to the same pizza joint for 30 years, is it not OK to point out that geez, this pizza a little too well done.
I'm not entitled to jack shit.
I just take issue with the word "deserve". They got me to buy their product. They "deserve" nothing more or nothing less.
Agreed. While we are fans, we are also customers, and I am not a fan of this idea that we should just shut up about any criticism and blindly support any and everything the band does. I don't do that with any band (even Rush).
-
If people expect perfect vocals, why not utilize technology that makes that possible? If people expect a live performance to be 100% played by the musicians, don't expect an intricate show and for it to be flawless.
We don't and we don't, so that's a moot point.
I would say the band and James "deserve" not to be subject to pointless negativity in their own corners of the internet, but this is our corner. Sure, it's a bit unfortunate that the one thread where we're discussing the tour as a whole is titled "The View tour is awesome!" but that's just the thread name. DTF rules about discussing DT and its members respectfully exist to protect them and their sensibilities, but I can respect those rules and still type out "I wish they wouldn't rely on technology with the vocals to the point where metal press is discussing whether James is lip-syncing a section". I'm not sure what other more respectful route I can take in order not to create bad press for the guys other than discussing my opinions on a low traffic site with a few other people who have all bought tickets?
The questioning of other members about why they can't just leave the topic alone is a bit puzzling. We all know the guy who should lay off Dream Theater who hasn't heard one note by them in the past ten years who is still in every comment section talking about how much they sucked since [insert random time point]. None of us here are that guy.
-
None of us here are that guy.
We appreciate that.
-
Well, I don't think that all backing vocals were triggered but I'm sure a good 80% were triggered by the band members. As an example, during the Counterparts tour Alex would sing the backing low octave parts during the chorus and one time he wasn't where he was supposed to be and you heard all Geddy. He made back to the mic and it made me wonder if his voice triggered the sound effect or that was the sound guy.
It could be that the backing vocals are programmed like JR programs his keyboard and that's why the need a click but I see no difference between DT and Rush as to their approach of how they present the backing vocals. I mean, doesn't Matti have the ability to punch a certain pedal if JP doesn't make it back in time?
The difference is that Rush never played to a click track aside from one track long ago, and during certain parts of the CA tour to help the string ensemble stay in sync with the band, but that was it. The guys even commented that they always triggered everything manually, which they prided themselves on doing, so that in essence they were still performing those parts.
Since DT plays to a click, all the extras can just be programmed to happen at specific spots - basically a digital version of playing to a tape. There might be a few things that JR might trigger on his own, but given the abundance of keyboard parts he has to worry about trying to replicate live on his own, I doubt he's triggering many other things, especially canned vocals.
-
Just for amusement and general mockery, the following is an actual post on the Dream Theater "sub" on Reddit yesterday:
"I went to see DT the other night and.....
I absolutely hated it, they only played new songs that no body knew too well. I would've loved it if they played classics but not even Pull Me Under was played, like c'mon. I get that they're trying to advertise their new ok album but just give the fans what they want..."
:lol
-
Well, I don't think that all backing vocals were triggered but I'm sure a good 80% were triggered by the band members. As an example, during the Counterparts tour Alex would sing the backing low octave parts during the chorus and one time he wasn't where he was supposed to be and you heard all Geddy. He made back to the mic and it made me wonder if his voice triggered the sound effect or that was the sound guy.
It could be that the backing vocals are programmed like JR programs his keyboard and that's why the need a click but I see no difference between DT and Rush as to their approach of how they present the backing vocals. I mean, doesn't Matti have the ability to punch a certain pedal if JP doesn't make it back in time?
Apparently not, because JP forgot to change his patch both times I saw them on this tour. :lol
-
Well, I don't think that all backing vocals were triggered but I'm sure a good 80% were triggered by the band members. As an example, during the Counterparts tour Alex would sing the backing low octave parts during the chorus and one time he wasn't where he was supposed to be and you heard all Geddy. He made back to the mic and it made me wonder if his voice triggered the sound effect or that was the sound guy.
It could be that the backing vocals are programmed like JR programs his keyboard and that's why the need a click but I see no difference between DT and Rush as to their approach of how they present the backing vocals. I mean, doesn't Matti have the ability to punch a certain pedal if JP doesn't make it back in time?
The difference is that Rush never played to a click track aside from one track long ago, and during certain parts of the CA tour to help the string ensemble stay in sync with the band, but that was it. The guys even commented that they always triggered everything manually, which they prided themselves on doing, so that in essence they were still performing those parts.
Since DT plays to a click, all the extras can just be programmed to happen at specific spots - basically a digital version of playing to a tape. There might be a few things that JR might trigger on his own, but given the abundance of keyboard parts he has to worry about trying to replicate live on his own, I doubt he's triggering many other things, especially canned vocals.
The "click" songs you are referring to is The Weapon and Red Sector A and you could tell because Neil had headphones on. With the advent of in ear monitors, there is no telling what they are hearing but I would bet money that there was clickage happening. And isn't MM the only one that is getting the click in his monitors? Especially after the song begins because after all, the drummer is the timekeeper.
-
Just for amusement and general mockery, the following is an actual post on the Dream Theater "sub" on Reddit yesterday:
"I went to see DT the other night and.....
I absolutely hated it, they only played new songs that no body knew too well. I would've loved it if they played classics but not even Pull Me Under was played, like c'mon. I get that they're trying to advertise their new ok album but just give the fans what they want..."
:lol
Newbie......or troll - :hat
-
The "click" songs you are referring to is The Weapon and Red Sector A and you could tell because Neil had headphones on. With the advent of in ear monitors, there is no telling what they are hearing but I would bet money that there was clickage happening.
I don't expect you to believe me, but here's what Neil himself said in a 2015 issue of DRUM! magazine:
Until the Clockwork Angels tour I had never used a click track live, except once years ago to stay in sync with a rear-screen film. For this tour it was helpful because we had eight string players in the Clockwork Angels String Ensemble, and they sometimes needed it when I wasn't playing. Even in certain passages when I was playing, it helped us all to stay together.
I was also required to stay in tempo with some long, legato sequences of keyboard or vocal effects, and the tambo-click helped with that, too. Even so, I am glad to say that the click appears in only a tiny percentage of the show, and only when absolutely necessary - or at least, "absolutely helpful."
On most songs, I prefer to hold it together myself, and let the band be a living, breathing organism that can push and pull naturally. These days many bands perform to a preprogrammed basic track, often a computerized software program. We always resisted that rigidity.
So if you want to accuse Neil of lying, be my guest, but that's one thing I don't imagine Neil would do when writing articles or doing interviews.
-
Like Star Wars, nobody hates on Dream Theater like Dream Theater fans. Personally, I think a lot of it is ridiculous. I think the last two albums are as good as anything else they've done, and I'm enjoying them having fun this far into their career. I've been a fan for almost 30 years at this point, and I'm happy they're still making music and seem to be as good as they ever were. And honestly, I never really cared about all of the things MP "did for the fans." They seem to be in a good place and I'm "along for the ride" as it were.
-
If people expect perfect vocals, why not utilize technology that makes that possible? If people expect a live performance to be 100% played by the musicians, don't expect an intricate show and for it to be flawless.
We don't and we don't, so that's a moot point.
I would say the band and James "deserve" not to be subject to pointless negativity in their own corners of the internet, but this is our corner. Sure, it's a bit unfortunate that the one thread where we're discussing the tour as a whole is titled "The View tour is awesome!" but that's just the thread name. DTF rules about discussing DT and its members respectfully exist to protect them and their sensibilities, but I can respect those rules and still type out "I wish they wouldn't rely on technology with the vocals to the point where metal press is discussing whether James is lip-syncing a section". I'm not sure what other more respectful route I can take in order not to create bad press for the guys other than discussing my opinions on a low traffic site with a few other people who have all bought tickets?
The questioning of other members about why they can't just leave the topic alone is a bit puzzling. We all know the guy who should lay off Dream Theater who hasn't heard one note by them in the past ten years who is still in every comment section talking about how much they sucked since [insert random time point]. None of us here are that guy.
There's a reason why MP decided to get rid of the forum as an official forum and then got rid of his entire forum entirely. The reason why music media discussed this was likely because someone posted a Youtube video directly proclaiming JLB is lip singing. And personally, That's who I feel JLB's "Fuck You" was geared at. Someone who took their time to clip an audience recording and make a video proclaiming something that is not true. Many people watch YouTube and news journalists mention and talk about Youtube videos because ratings, and they can convince people that he is. When it is obvious he is not lip singing, he is singing along with a backing track. That's conspiracy theory shit right there...
Backing Vocals are things I do not mind. For myself, Either pipe them in to fill out the sound, or the audience can at least sing those parts out loud to fill out that sound. Take The Time is a fantastic example of this. It sounds weird listening to songs that should be audience singing moments be silent during the song on live recordings.
Musicians and Singers love when an audience can sing along loud enough to be heard. That crowd choir is powerful and that tone is the tone of the human voice when gathered into one harmony. Blind Guardian performing The Bard's Song is entirely about that very thing. The Bard's Song is meant for this purpose of that crowd harmony.
-
Like Star Wars, nobody hates on Dream Theater like Dream Theater fans. Personally, I think a lot of it is ridiculous. I think the last two albums are as good as anything else they've done, and I'm enjoying them having fun this far into their career. I've been a fan for almost 30 years at this point, and I'm happy they're still making music and seem to be as good as they ever were. And honestly, I never really cared about all of the things MP "did for the fans." They seem to be in a good place and I'm "along for the ride" as it were.
Fandom, is a reason why I find this Simpsons clip hilarious...
You're a lifesaver, Homer. (https://youtu.be/JQH2rmQ5-vk)
-
Like Star Wars, nobody hates on Dream Theater like Dream Theater fans.
Yup. Dream Theater fans can be pretty harsh on the band, I've had my own complaints over the years, but like you I'm still "along for the ride".
Just for amusement and general mockery, the following is an actual post on the Dream Theater "sub" on Reddit yesterday:
"I went to see DT the other night and.....
I absolutely hated it, they only played new songs that no body knew too well. I would've loved it if they played classics but not even Pull Me Under was played, like c'mon. I get that they're trying to advertise their new ok album but just give the fans what they want..."
:lol
Newbie......or troll - :hat
You can't make everyone happy with the setlist choices. That's just a fact really when a band has so much music to choose from. But considering how they recently did the entire I&W album and you can be pretty certain PMU will come back to the set, I think that's not a fair criticism even if PMU is their biggest "hit". They've made it known for the last 30 years that PMU is not a song they will play every show or every tour.
-
TAC, my apologies for the poor word choice with "deserve". It was my choice of words first, not MinistroRaven's, so I'm sorry if it was offensive. I only meant it in the plainest dictionary definition of deserving, which is having done something worthy of praise. I think we can all agree that they have done so and more, but I do respect your point of view.
won't stop me from loving Dream Theater.
I think we all agree on this as well 🙂
-
Just for amusement and general mockery, the following is an actual post on the Dream Theater "sub" on Reddit yesterday:
"I went to see DT the other night and.....
I absolutely hated it, they only played new songs that no body knew too well. I would've loved it if they played classics but not even Pull Me Under was played, like c'mon. I get that they're trying to advertise their new ok album but just give the fans what they want..."
:lol
For all the Iron Maiden fans who've spent years asking why they don't play Alexander the Great... this mindset is why.
-
TAC, my apologies for the poor word choice with "deserve". It was my choice of words first, not MinistroRaven's, so I'm sorry if it was offensive. I only meant it in the plainest dictionary definition of deserving, which is having done something worthy of praise. I think we can all agree that they have done so and more, but I do respect your point of view.
won't stop me from loving Dream Theater.
I think we all agree on this as well 🙂
Oh no worries at all. That word just sent me over the edge. :lol
I have said plenty about the James' vocals thing. I don't plan on beating a dead horse mentioning it again, unless there's a relevancy.
-
Like Star Wars, nobody hates on Dream Theater like Dream Theater fans. Personally, I think a lot of it is ridiculous. I think the last two albums are as good as anything else they've done, and I'm enjoying them having fun this far into their career. I've been a fan for almost 30 years at this point, and I'm happy they're still making music and seem to be as good as they ever were. And honestly, I never really cared about all of the things MP "did for the fans." They seem to be in a good place and I'm "along for the ride" as it were.
Many times, we criticize what we love.
I will use this analogy: say two brothers were always fighting as kids, and they were out front arguing one day and the older brother was knocking the younger one around a little, and then a neighbor kid comes by and makes fun of the younger one. The older brother then instantly stops fighting with his brother and turns his attention to the outsider. "I can make fun of my brother and knock him around a little, but YOU cannot."
Not the exact same thing, but I think you get what I mean. For those accused of being too critical of live James lately, I suspect that if you threw most of us on a big internet forum and non-fans were making fun of James and/or DT, we'd be quick to jump in and defend them. Non-fans cannot criticize "our" band, but we can.
-
The nitpicking just comes with the territory. They are a famous band with fans all over the world in an age where everything gets posted on the internet the next day.
I think JLB could have handled it better but I get the anger. He's been dealing with a disproportionate amount of criticism about his abilities for decades, and now heap onto that another controversy about a very taboo subject. I get it, given the context-- the rest of the band members continue to be among the best in what they do with no signs of age, yet we are still talking about whether or not the singer can perform his basic duties competently and consistently in a live setting after like 20 years.
I was personally satisfied by the live vocal performance all things considered. It was a little rough in a few spots, but nothing outside the bounds of what we've been hearing for a long time. Did the backing track kill it for me? No, and I don't think it was used as a crutch, but rather as a sort of textural enhancement. I hope next time they just forgo it in order to avoid an unnecessary distraction. As far as the 'find a new singer' thing is concerned, I think that is silly at this point. There was a time for that and it's long gone; for better or worse depending on your view, JLB is here until he says he quits.
-
As he does not strike me as being a delusional narcissist on any level (quite the contrary actually), I have little to no doubt that James realizes what he has lost and what his certain limitations are now, and it has to be frustrating for him to see and read that many see it as well, so lashing out a bit is understandable for sure. I get it.
And definitely hell no to a new singer ever. I listened to Answering the Call and Awaken the Master on the way home from work today and both still sounded great, as did JLB in both, so as long as he can still deliver in the studio, this fan is good. :coolio :coolio
-
Well, I don't think that all backing vocals were triggered but I'm sure a good 80% were triggered by the band members. As an example, during the Counterparts tour Alex would sing the backing low octave parts during the chorus and one time he wasn't where he was supposed to be and you heard all Geddy. He made back to the mic and it made me wonder if his voice triggered the sound effect or that was the sound guy.
It could be that the backing vocals are programmed like JR programs his keyboard and that's why the need a click but I see no difference between DT and Rush as to their approach of how they present the backing vocals. I mean, doesn't Matti have the ability to punch a certain pedal if JP doesn't make it back in time?
I'm not the Rush expert some are, but wasn't there at least one tour where Alex made a sort of joke of "singing" the "Superconductor" part of... what's the name of that song.... :) :) :)
-
Like Star Wars, nobody hates on Dream Theater like Dream Theater fans. Personally, I think a lot of it is ridiculous. I think the last two albums are as good as anything else they've done, and I'm enjoying them having fun this far into their career. I've been a fan for almost 30 years at this point, and I'm happy they're still making music and seem to be as good as they ever were. And honestly, I never really cared about all of the things MP "did for the fans." They seem to be in a good place and I'm "along for the ride" as it were.
Other than the things MP did, which I liked, I want to be clear that any complaints I had aren't enough to chill my love of the band. I was really impressed with their live show this last tour, and I still get as much joy from the band as I ever did.
-
People have posted about how the band is putting on more of a performance, and want to have all the lights, video, and music synced up properly. While commendable, I cannot imagine leaving a rock concert and thinking "boy, it really bugged me those couple times the music wasn't perfectly synced with the lights/video."
-
People have posted about how the band is putting on more of a performance, and want to have all the lights, video, and music synced up properly. While commendable, I cannot imagine leaving a rock concert and thinking "boy, it really bugged me those couple times the music wasn't perfectly synced with the lights/video."
I went to a Kamlot concert. They had a fantastic light show. I loved the concert; the music, hearing the songs I like. When I tell others about it, I always talk about the light show they put on.
Now I dont need a light show to love a rock concert, but when its done well, its a great add on.
-
I did end up catching the last night of the North American tour on Monday night in Austin, some thoughts below
- Arch Echo were great as an opening band. I saw them a couple of years ago opening for Tony MacAlpine in a much smaller venue and came away from that show impressed with them. I was glad to see them get this shot at playing on a much bigger platform and I think they brought it. Sure, the songwriting could probably use a little bit of refining, but the playing and energy were both off the charts. They got an enthusiastic reaction from the Austin crowd at the end of their set (though I think the replacement drummer is from Texas, which helped :lol)
- I enjoyed the more stripped down stage design, and by and large thought the sound was well-mixed. I also didn't find it to be detrimentally loud, which I know was feedback from people at a few different shows.
- I thought the new songs all came across fine. By and large View has landed as being consistently average for me, and seeing them live didn't change things one way or another. I have to say that of the four songs they played Invisible Monster was my least favorite, but improved the most in a live setting. Some of the 8 string riffage in Awaken the Master sounded a little bit muddier than it had to.
- I was very happy to get 6:00 in the set this tour, it's one of my favorites from Awake and one that I don't think I've seen live yet. It got a pretty solid reaction from the crowd as well. Endless Sacrifice though definitely got the crowd going more than just about anything else in the setlist.
- I really hope this scratches their itch to play TMOLS for the foreseeable future. It's less of a slog live than it is on the album, but that's a low bar to clear.
- The band was on point pretty much all night. JP was a rock star as always and MM was a monster behind the kit. Jordan was doing his wizard things, and I really got to appreciate JM in particular since I was up close on his side. I thought JLB was by and large solid given some of the discussion around him pretty much since the tour started. Some noticeable melody adjustments and some moments where he forewent enunciation to focus on hitting the note that he wanted to. Nothing where it seemed like he was trying to turn his back to the crowd and let piped in vocals do all the work (and I was looking for it during BitS in particular). There were a couple times where he wasn't even holding the mic near his mouth though where you could hear the piped in vocals though, which I thought was weird. The "whoa"s at the end of TCOT were one instance, he was holding the mic out to the crowd but you could also still hear him. There was one other similar instance earlier though, can't remember what it was.
- The overall crowd energy was awesome, almost everyone on the floor was on their feet the whole night and enthusiastic throughout. It did seem like it was amateur hour right in the area I was sitting. First, I had a group of guys split between the row in front of me who seemed to be there primarily to drink and record themselves drinking. They would take turns going out and buying rounds of four drinks for the group, which always involved passing the drinks around and then reaching across my row/general area to cheers each other. One guy kept on filming and then panning around to get everyone in the shot and then had to play back what he had recorded. There was also a guy in the row in front of me who kept on telling people how he had been to 13 shows on this tour and met the band a bunch of times and was on the tour bus hanging out with Mangini's drum tech earlier in the day. Clearly he'd been around a lot, he got a couple nods/fist bumps from various band members over the course of the night, but he just also did some stuff that I found distractingly disrespectful. Turned his back to the stage repeatedly to jam out on air guitar, and also yelled things loudly at inappropriate times (e.g. in that soft piano and vocals only section towards the end of TMOLS). Come on my guy, act like you've been there before :tdwn
-
Sure, definitely, if that works for the show, then go for it! I just don't think a band like DT needs to have a Pink Floyd level light/video/laser show, if the potential downsides (lack of spontaneity, use of backing tracks/vocals, lip-syncing?...) creates a stir for the fans, as it seems to be doing here. My point was if not all the light cues are pinpoint precise, is that going to hamper anyone's experience? Maybe it will. And that's fair. I just don't think it would for me.
-
Axeman....Those drunk guys are probably the people JLB was taking about when saying..."Are you drunk already?"....
I could see the front row and a couple rows behind. I probably saw you and passed by you, but didn't even know.
Also, the drummer that was playing for Arch Echo is their actual drummer. That was neat when he handed the bass player his drum stick to hit some cymbals and then picked up a new stick to continue playing. I thought that was neat.
-
The different reactions to Endless Sacrifice and Ministry of Lost Souls are interesting since they are structured very much the same and suffer from the same criticisms (wacky instrumental section shoe-horned into a "serious" song).
-
People have posted about how the band is putting on more of a performance, and want to have all the lights, video, and music synced up properly. While commendable, I cannot imagine leaving a rock concert and thinking "boy, it really bugged me those couple times the music wasn't perfectly synced with the lights/video."
That's funny because I mentioned earlier in the thread that DT's show before Mangini joined always seemed a bit low budget. I mentioned it at the time too. I just figured they were doing the best they could given their budget but now it seems that having a much better produced show was possible just not a priority.
I still enjoyed all those pre-Mangini shows but enjoy them much more post-Portnoy
The different reactions to Endless Sacrifice and Ministry of Lost Souls are interesting since they are structured very much the same and suffer from the same criticisms (wacky instrumental section shoe-horned into a "serious" song).
Scandalous! Same structure?! :o
-
The different reactions to Endless Sacrifice and Ministry of Lost Souls are interesting since they are structured very much the same and suffer from the same criticisms (wacky instrumental section shoe-horned into a "serious" song).
Because one of them kicks ass and the other is a total slog.
Just for amusement and general mockery, the following is an actual post on the Dream Theater "sub" on Reddit yesterday:
"I went to see DT the other night and.....
I absolutely hated it, they only played new songs that no body knew too well. I would've loved it if they played classics but not even Pull Me Under was played, like c'mon. I get that they're trying to advertise their new ok album but just give the fans what they want..."
:lol
Newbie......or troll - :hat
Yeah, no real DT fan would be upset at the band for NOT playing PMU. :lol It's a great song, but there's no reason for them to play it every tour.
-
I thought the same thing about JP's vocals on When Day and Dream Reunite but at the time, I hadn't heard much of their live stuff and didn't realize how much backing vocals Portnoy did. Now I am wondering if that's mostly Portnoy we are hearing on The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun. Can anyone clarify?
Nope. It's JP:
https://youtu.be/j72Q0WiyoBc?t=298
Portnoy is also shown singing that part too at around 5:13.
-
Just for amusement and general mockery, the following is an actual post on the Dream Theater "sub" on Reddit yesterday:
"I went to see DT the other night and.....
I absolutely hated it, they only played new songs that no body knew too well. I would've loved it if they played classics but not even Pull Me Under was played, like c'mon. I get that they're trying to advertise their new ok album but just give the fans what they want..."
:lol
Newbie......or troll - :hat
Yeah, no real DT fan would be upset at the band for NOT playing PMU. :lol It's a great song, but there's no reason for them to play it every tour.
I mean, it’s great, but after seeing the full Images and Words, I’m kinda good to not see that one again. It didn’t fit in on the Distance tour, I don’t think it would fit in on this one. To be honest, much like Spirit Carries On, it’s been overplayed and I’d be fine if it doesn’t pop back up and other songs get a chance to see the light of the stage.
-
If I recall right, the big "Woah!" section at the end of The Count of Tuscany at my show was not a recording of James singing from the album, but an all new choir-sounding version. Was that a backing track or something Jordan was performing live on his keyboard?
-
Oh, and another thing. Since MP left, DT and their product has been more "transactional" than ever. Gone are the little extras for the fans.
And just to illustrate this point, (AND THIS IS NOT ABOUT MP!!!), I've been checking the band's Instagram.
Now that the US leg has ended, there is no short video about thanking the fans for coming out and supporting the band. But there is a post pimping the new LNF album.
-
Oh, and another thing. Since MP left, DT and their product has been more "transactional" than ever. Gone are the little extras for the fans.
And just to illustrate this point, (AND THIS IS NOT ABOUT MP!!!), I've been checking the band's Instagram.
Now that the US leg has ended, there is no short video about thanking the fans for coming out and supporting the band. But there is a post pimping the new LNF album.
Literally their post before the LNF thanked the fans for coming out and seeing the band. Has a few pics of the band on that leg of the tour. BUT at the same time they do go on to promote the next leg too so you're still kinda right :yarr
-
Oh then I take it back. So if I blinked I missed it?
I’ve been trying to hit their instagram link each day to see what’s new.
-
Oh then I take it back. So if I blinked I missed it?
I’ve been trying to hit their instagram link each day to see what’s new.
Even if you missed it, they aren't very savvy with social media IMO. Bands these days really need to be on top of their social media game.
-
Oh then I take it back. So if I blinked I missed it?
I’ve been trying to hit their instagram link each day to see what’s new.
Even if you missed it, they aren't very savvy with social media IMO. Bands these days really need to be on top of their social media game.
First off, a band trying to connect with TAC via social media is all sorts of hilarious.
Second, I don't generally follow any band via social media. But then I see all those short YouTube videos from Ghost around the release of Impera, and think "Why can't other bands do that? It's a 30 second video just to pimp the new album." I get that they have this lore they build up but it's such a creative way to keep your web presence active and get the buzz going around new material.
-
Last week I made a last minute decision to jet over to Dallas to see DT on this tour after all. It was a solid show and an enthusiastic crowd. Nice city, too. Highlights included Endless Sacrifice and The Ministry of Lost Souls. I dug the way the band used the tempo ritard in About to Crash to segway into Ministry's pace. Nicely conceived.
I must be getting up in my years, because I think they'd sound much better if they lowered the volume, but I guess that's always been their live preference. But all in all, a fun trip and killer show.
-
Bummer about the volume. Like the Daily Doug guy said, it detracts from the intricacies of the music when it’s boosted to such ridiculous levels. Maybe they figure no one will notice if James is struggling?
-
Bummer about the volume. Like the Daily Doug guy said, it detracts from the intricacies of the music when it’s boosted to such ridiculous levels. Maybe they figure no one will notice if James is struggling?
That’s my only gripe as well and Daily Doug is correct…..JP just drowns out everyone on multiple occasions. It’s a real bummer.
-
Maybe they figure no one will notice if James is struggling?
I doubt that is their reason. It doesn't make sense, unless they turned themselves up and him down, but I heard him just fine in CT, where his performance was for the most part flawless.
-
Volume varies drastically from venue to venue and often from seat to seat.
-
Bummer about the volume. Like the Daily Doug guy said, it detracts from the intricacies of the music when it’s boosted to such ridiculous levels. Maybe they figure no one will notice if James is struggling?
That's been my thought for a long time. Most people don't leave DT concerts thinking JLB struggled, they realize it after when watching a video.
Having said that, I didn't think either of the shows I attended this tour were too loud like they had been in the past.
-
Just for amusement and general mockery, the following is an actual post on the Dream Theater "sub" on Reddit yesterday:
"I went to see DT the other night and.....
I absolutely hated it, they only played new songs that no body knew too well. I would've loved it if they played classics but not even Pull Me Under was played, like c'mon. I get that they're trying to advertise their new ok album but just give the fans what they want..."
:lol
Newbie......or troll - :hat
Yeah, no real DT fan would be upset at the band for NOT playing PMU. :lol It's a great song, but there's no reason for them to play it every tour.
I mean, it’s great, but after seeing the full Images and Words, I’m kinda good to not see that one again. It didn’t fit in on the Distance tour, I don’t think it would fit in on this one. To be honest, much like Spirit Carries On, it’s been overplayed and I’d be fine if it doesn’t pop back up and other songs get a chance to see the light of the stage.
Yeah, anyone who would want that just hasn't paid attention to the band's history from day 1. They have never been a band to consider anything to be a "must-play" song. I remember getting a bootleg from a show way back in the early days (might have been a copy of one of the fanclub CDs--I don't remember, but Scotty will probably know) where Mike addressed the crowd at one point and basically said, "Look, I know some of you want to hear Take the Time, but get over it. We're not playing it."
They have NEVER been a band that felt obligated to play Pull Me Under, or The Spirit Carries On, or anything else every show. And that's perfectly fine.
That being said, I do wonder though whether they might bring in more of the casual non-prog fans if they had a reputation for playing it all the time. I mean, look at Maiden. If you go to an Iron Maiden show, you pretty much KNOW the final four songs of any given set on any given tour are going to be pulled from a short list consisting of: Iron Maiden, Hallowed, Running Free, Sanctuary, Run To the Hills, and NOTB (if not played earlier in the set). Yeah, they do occasionally deviate from that, but it's a very safe bet that 4 songs from that list (or 3 at the very least) will be the final 4 songs played. It's kinda their signature. And although it's repetitive, it's fine, and most fans seem to either love it or at least be cool with it. I don't think most DT fans would be too upset if DT ever did a similar thing and just made PMU their expected closer all the time to satisfy those who come to the shows for that specific song.
-
I'm not sure PMU is definitely that song for them. There are so many that could be considered fan-favorites. Why PMU, and not Metropolis, TSCO, 8vm, TCoT, etc...? Heck, even Panic Attack, since it was in Guitar Hero, has probably become one of their most beloved songs, especially among younger fans. PMU was the one "hit" but it wasn't even that big of a hit, and is ancient history. Plus, to be quite honest, it's never been a great live song, at least as far as I'm concerned. Even listening to the latest Lost Not Forgotten release, live in NYC '93, I feel like it just didn't work that well, even with 20-something year old James.
-
I think in our prog fan bubble, it can be easy to forget that eight minutes is a long song for many people, and you can forget about 19 or 24 minutes. I think that even includes some of the more casual DT listeners. I think that because radio airplay and Guitar Hero have pretty clearly been their broadest forms of exposure, the most popular songs are definitely Pull Me Under for people who were young in the 90s and Panic Attack for people who were young in the 00s.
-
If you go to an Iron Maiden show, you pretty much KNOW the final four songs of any given set on any given tour are going to be pulled from a short list
Yes, and I'm so glad DT does NOT do this. I don't need a different setlist every night but I do like one every tour. Anything less (or more) would be boring and/or tedious.
-
Yeah, anyone who would want that just hasn't paid attention to the band's history from day 1. They have never been a band to consider anything to be a "must-play" song. I remember getting a bootleg from a show way back in the early days (might have been a copy of one of the fanclub CDs--I don't remember, but Scotty will probably know) where Mike addressed the crowd at one point and basically said, "Look, I know some of you want to hear Take the Time, but get over it. We're not playing it."
I knew it was one of the Dec 1998 shows, but I had to double check my notes - it was the show on the 27th in Philly. :biggrin:
What was funny is that it was in response to a woman in the audience who kept screaming for TtT during the show, which you can even hear on the recording! :lol
Yes, and I'm so glad DT does NOT do this. I don't need a different setlist every night but I do like one every tour. Anything less (or more) would be boring and/or tedious.
How could anything more be boring or tedious? ???
-
How could anything more be boring or tedious? ???
I just don't like the different-setlist-every-night idea. It just seems disappointingly chaotic. But this is coming from someone who actually likes setlist spoilers, so take with a grain of salt.
I definitely wouldn't want the same songs every year though. The way they handle it currently is the perfect balance.
-
MP gave a similar disclaimer at the 1998 Toad's Place show, but I recall he referenced not playing Metropolis.
Also, I think Pull Me Under was a deliberate inclusion in the Distance Over Time tour because of the Hamlet reference. The song quotes the play, and the album artwork is an obvious reference. The skull is even called Yorick in the tour book, so I wouldn't be surprised if playing PMU might have been a mindful attempt to connect the themes.
Similarly, I suspect Bridges in the Sky was included in the latest tour because of the songs "reunited as one" theme. Just my opinion, but I think the song has a personal meaning about DT playing together as a band, and therefore it would be fitting to add it for their return to the stage.
-
I personally liked how they included a song not played by Mangini yet.
-
One interesting trend I've noticed in their Mangini-era setlists is a lot of love for Systematic Chaos. They did TDEN in 2011 and 2017, Constant Motion in 2015, ITPOE1 in 2019, and now TMOLS. Of the Portnoy-era albums, I think only IAW, SFAM and Awake have gotten more attention. Interesting for an album that is not a favorite of the core fanbase.
Edit: I guess BCSL has also gotten a comparable amount of attention, with TCOT in 2011 and 2022, ANTR in 2019, Wither in 2015 and TSF in 2013. Which is also interesting, although I chalk some of that up to it being the last album of the MP era and one that didn't get a super extensive tour.
-
One interesting trend I've noticed in their Mangini-era setlists is a lot of love for Systematic Chaos. They did TDEN in 2011 and 2017, Constant Motion in 2015, ITPOE1 in 2019, and now TMOLS. Of the Portnoy-era albums, I think only IAW, SFAM and Awake have gotten more attention. Interesting for an album that is not a favorite of the core fanbase.
I'm not surprised. Other than CM, those are all songs with lyrics by JP, and I'm sure he favors the songs he wrote, especially if he's been in charge of picking setlists since Mangini joined.
-Marc.
-
One interesting trend I've noticed in their Mangini-era setlists is a lot of love for Systematic Chaos. They did TDEN in 2011 and 2017, Constant Motion in 2015, ITPOE1 in 2019, and now TMOLS. Of the Portnoy-era albums, I think only IAW, SFAM and Awake have gotten more attention. Interesting for an album that is not a favorite of the core fanbase.
They also played Forsaken in 2011.
They've played most of BC&SL as well: ANTR (2019-2020), TCOT (2011 and 2022), TSF (2014), Wither (2015), and have ignored most of OVM and SDOIT.
-
I wish Wither would get some live exposure in the U.S.
-
I wish Wither would get some live exposure in the U.S.
This, AND Forsaken. Two of my favorite songs.
-
One interesting trend I've noticed in their Mangini-era setlists is a lot of love for Systematic Chaos. They did TDEN in 2011 and 2017, Constant Motion in 2015, ITPOE1 in 2019, and now TMOLS. Of the Portnoy-era albums, I think only IAW, SFAM and Awake have gotten more attention. Interesting for an album that is not a favorite of the core fanbase.
They also played Forsaken in 2011.
They've played most of BC&SL as well: ANTR (2019-2020), TCOT (2011 and 2022), TSF (2014), Wither (2015), and have ignored most of OVM and SDOIT.
Yes, and I find it odd they've ignored most of OVM and SDOIT. I'm pretty sure most fans rate those two albums WAY about Systematic Chaos and BC&SL
-
I have a feeling those albums are going to get their proper due soon.
-
I wish Wither would get some live exposure in the U.S.
This, AND Forsaken. Two of my favorite songs.
.....except that Forsaken has gotten plenty of airtime, being played over 100 times on tours from 2007-2011 throughout the world, so it's not a rarity. Wither, OTOH has only been played 43 times, only twice in North America, so there's a big difference.
-
I don't think most DT fans would be too upset if DT ever did a similar thing and just made PMU their expected closer all the time to satisfy those who come to the shows for that specific song.
I think if DT had done this from when they started touring, it wouldn't be a big deal. Almost every band has songs they play at every show. DT would be no different if they did that. However, since they've got 30+ years of shows without doing this, if they started to I think it wouldn't go over so well (at least not immediately).
One interesting trend I've noticed in their Mangini-era setlists is a lot of love for Systematic Chaos. They did TDEN in 2011 and 2017, Constant Motion in 2015, ITPOE1 in 2019, and now TMOLS. Of the Portnoy-era albums, I think only IAW, SFAM and Awake have gotten more attention. Interesting for an album that is not a favorite of the core fanbase.
They also played Forsaken in 2011.
They've played most of BC&SL as well: ANTR (2019-2020), TCOT (2011 and 2022), TSF (2014), Wither (2015), and have ignored most of OVM and SDOIT.
I think BC&SL/SC got more love than some others is just because they are newer with less overall plays than stuff older. Just my thought. I kind of expect to see some more SDOIT/FII/8M in the coming sets because of their lack of representation. This is the one area of the live shows I will give them credit for, always shuffling up the older songs they play and not having setlist staples makes this so much more possible.
-
From FB
Someone asked Mike why the drum kit was scaled back in this tour.
"Petrucci asked me to scale it down to make more room in our live room. I have made some kind of kit change every tour for my entire life, so this was normal for me. The strange thing was sitting down at it trying to play the HiHat foot pedals backward and no drums on the left side and immediately writing 3 sections of beats that became The Alien. I can elaborate in the class Sat. since it is all about the tour."
I enjoyed more seeing Mike with this setup than his previous drum kits.
-
Any changes to the setlist last night?
-
Any changes to the setlist last night?
No changes so far.
-
Sees that the start of the European tour is with seating and it seems that the halls are quite empty, have people have gotten a little tired of DT due to many other prog alternatives or there are many who do not meet due to covid fear, In Norway there are full houses at the conserts now, Tool soon will be a killer, everyone is close and everything is as before.
Only seats at a metal concert, it must be sad stuff for DT.
-
DT in Newcastle was my first ever gig last night, it was surreal seeing the band in front of me. I genuinely couldn’t believe how well James performed too, he didn’t miss a note. It’s really obvious that he’s not lip syncing during *that* part of Bridges in the Sky at least now, he was still singing it in the lower octave and it was much louder than the backing vox.
Everyone was absolutely amazing but JP was on fire too, it seemed like he was struggling a little bit more than usual during his leads on the American leg based off videos I’d seen but he was spot on last night.
-
DT in Newcastle was my first ever gig last night, it was surreal seeing the band in front of me. I genuinely couldn’t believe how well James performed too, he didn’t miss a note. It’s really obvious that he’s not lip syncing during *that* part of Bridges in the Sky at least now, he was still singing it in the lower octave and it was much louder than the backing vox.
Everyone was absolutely amazing but JP was on fire too, it seemed like he was struggling a little bit more than usual during his leads on the American leg based off videos I’d seen but he was spot on last night.
how was attendance at the concert? 2000-3000?
-
I was at Belfast on Wednesday night. I loved it - had a great time, and it was really great not to have to travel and have the expense of flights and accommodation for once.
The guys performed really well, and although on paper I didn't fancy the setlist too much, I think it really flowed well live. Endless Sacrifice was a surprising highlight, which went down well with the crowd. I absolutely loved hearing TCOT live, I was looking forward to that beforehand and it didn't disappoint.
I was listening for the backing tracks, but they were subtle, and didn't bother me at all. Even "that bit" in BITS, wasn't an issue. It's just that James is singing the lower octave, and you can still faintly hear the upper octave from the track. Not a problem.
On the negative side, I think the sectioned off arena is a bit of an atmosphere killer, especially when there are other venues in the city which would have been far better for an audience of that size (ie the Ulster Hall, which has been a staple for gigs of that size over the years). There were scatterings of empty seats too, which left me a bit disappointed for the band. It would have been great if the place was packed out, and everyone was as into it as I was. :)
-
The guys performed really well, and although on paper I didn't fancy the setlist too much, I think it really flowed well live.
I get that. This particular setlist is not one that I would ever have designed in a million years, but seeing it live worked really well.
-
I was at Belfast on Wednesday night. I loved it - had a great time, and it was really great not to have to travel and have the expense of flights and accommodation for once.
The guys performed really well, and although on paper I didn't fancy the setlist too much, I think it really flowed well live. Endless Sacrifice was a surprising highlight, which went down well with the crowd. I absolutely loved hearing TCOT live, I was looking forward to that beforehand and it didn't disappoint.
I was listening for the backing tracks, but they were subtle, and didn't bother me at all. Even "that bit" in BITS, wasn't an issue. It's just that James is singing the lower octave, and you can still faintly hear the upper octave from the track. Not a problem.
On the negative side, I think the sectioned off arena is a bit of an atmosphere killer, especially when there are other venues in the city which would have been far better for an audience of that size (ie the Ulster Hall, which has been a staple for gigs of that size over the years). There were scatterings of empty seats too, which left me a bit disappointed for the band. It would have been great if the place was packed out, and everyone was as into it as I was. :)
Side note: before the pandemic my wife and I were planning a trip to Ireland including Belfast.
-
Cool! I hope you get the chance to rebook in future. Feel free to PM me if you need any local info, but just be aware I’m no tour guide! :lol
That reminds me, there was a brief moment of awkward stage banter where James said he didn’t realise that the Titanic was built in Belfast. I suppose that’s a sign that the tourist board isn’t doing a great job, since that’s one of our few tourist attractions! :lol
I think the crowd were just sort of bemused, but fair play to him for doing a bit of local research.
-
Cool! I hope you get the chance to rebook in future. Feel free to PM me if you need any local info, but just be aware I’m no tour guide! :lol
That reminds me, there was a brief moment of awkward stage banter where James said he didn’t realise that the Titanic was built in Belfast. I suppose that’s a sign that the tourist board isn’t doing a great job, since that’s one of our few tourist attractions! :lol
I think the crowd were just sort of bemused, but fair play to him for doing a bit of local research.
:lol
That's one of the reasons we wanted to go there! Your new museum looks awesome!
Of course, we mainly wanted to go for the simple reason that my wife and I are both of Irish heritage. If I ever do go I'll definitely be in touch but sadly it won't be for several years at this point.
Apologies for staying off topic but figured I'd share this link since DT fans tend to like instrumentals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PniJkuUWIYE
The band is called Public Service Broadcasting and uses archival soundbites and in the instance of that youtube video, archival footage, for all their music. That particular link is to a song from their EP White Star Liner about the Titanic.
Their best album is called The Race for Space. You can guess what it's about.
ok, back on topic!
-
Ha ha - narrator’s accent checks out. I like the way they had to subtitle it for anyone in the rest of the world to understand! :lol
-
Anyone think this tour will get released as a Live Album?
-
Anyone think this tour will get released as a Live Album?
Hard to say. They did a live release for 3 of the previous 4 albums but I don’t know if they made enough on the investment to make it worth it. Thank goodness for someone like Portnoy who never shies away from live releases.
-
Wouldn't mind going to the Vimeo route like Marillion or Big Big Train. You can cut or limit the pressing media production by a lot (CDS, DVDs, BRs) and still have it digitally available for rent or sale through Vimeo.
-
Anyone think this tour will get released as a Live Album?
I would think so. If not a traditional live release, then at the very least an official bootleg.
-
I saw that At Wit's End was released on youtube in 4k. I wished bands would release a 4k Bluray of their concerts. I wouldn't mind a digital only version of a live release if it were to happen.
Come to think of it, they should release an official version of this tour, seeing as how they finally won a grammy of one of the track, it would be easy to market the release as including the grammy winning track 'The Alien'.
-
Saw them at Wembley last night. My expectations were not that high because of all the talk of backing tracks, JLB’s decline and having had the setlist mostly spoiled for me thanks to YouTube recommendations, despite my efforts to avoid spoilers. But these issues did not affect the show anywhere near as I had worried. JLB was on good form and I can’t recall any particular moment where he struggled, which was not the case at the London show I saw on the previous tour. Also, his low octave vocals in the now infamous section of BITS are now much louder than the backing track, and my overall feeling was that when backing tracks were used, they enhanced the performance rather than detracting from the live feel. I feel like they have perhaps addressed the live mix due to the controversy and as a result last night it was really clear to me what was live and what was a backing track, and I really appreciate that.
That said, I really, really miss the elements of spontaneity that a DT show used to have. I understand why they use clicks and a static setlist now but at the same time, would it kill them to switch out one or two songs here and there just to keep us guessing?
There was a funny little moment when JLB was talking about UK bands and mentioned that two of his favourite bands are Zeppelin and Queen, and at that moment MM teased the drum intro to Rock ‘n’ Roll :biggrin: made my friend and I wonder how a full DT Zeppelin cover would sound, complete with a Rudess solo thrown in? :lol
-
With this tour clocking in at around 2 hours, and even the DOT/Scenes tour being shorter than a usual Evening With, are shorter sets likely to be the norm for DT going forward?
-
With this tour clocking in at around 2 hours, and even the DOT/Scenes tour being shorter than a usual Evening With, are shorter sets likely to be the norm for DT going forward?
It could be. These guys aren't young. JR is senior citizen and MM and JLB are almost 60. Tour life means you are constantly on the move and having your sleep schedule messed up. It's gotta be hard especially when you consider the nature of the music they're playing. I would not be surprised if shorter shows are the norm.
-
With this tour clocking in at around 2 hours, and even the DOT/Scenes tour being shorter than a usual Evening With, are shorter sets likely to be the norm for DT going forward?
It could be. These guys aren't young. JR is senior citizen and MM and JLB are almost 60. Tour life means you are constantly on the move and having your sleep schedule messed up. It's gotta be hard especially when you consider the nature of the music they're playing. I would not be surprised if shorter shows are the norm.
Question - when a band brings an opening act on tour, does that opening act share the expenses such as for union work or even hotel fees etc..?
-
With this tour clocking in at around 2 hours, and even the DOT/Scenes tour being shorter than a usual Evening With, are shorter sets likely to be the norm for DT going forward?
It could be. These guys aren't young. JR is senior citizen and MM and JLB are almost 60. Tour life means you are constantly on the move and having your sleep schedule messed up. It's gotta be hard especially when you consider the nature of the music they're playing. I would not be surprised if shorter shows are the norm.
Question - when a band brings an opening act on tour, does that opening act share the expenses such as for union work or even hotel fees etc..?
Usually they are paid a flat fee and have to figure everything else out on their own.
Occasionally opening bands will be offered more and even get to share a tour bus with the headlining band but that's relatively rare and usually when they're already established friends.
-
I don’t have any inside knowledge, but I would imagine that everything “on site” (I.e. everything that is already at the gig…the venue, stage hands, on-site catering etc etc) has already been taken care of. But as far as your personal accommodations you would have to take care of that yourself. You would probably have to pay your own stage hands to get your setup the way you want it…but just like any dive bar, the on hand sound guy would give you your levels during warm ups.
-
Show in Bilbao is cancelled.
-
With this tour clocking in at around 2 hours, and even the DOT/Scenes tour being shorter than a usual Evening With, are shorter sets likely to be the norm for DT going forward?
It could be. These guys aren't young. JR is senior citizen and MM and JLB are almost 60. Tour life means you are constantly on the move and having your sleep schedule messed up. It's gotta be hard especially when you consider the nature of the music they're playing. I would not be surprised if shorter shows are the norm.
Question - when a band brings an opening act on tour, does that opening act share the expenses such as for union work or even hotel fees etc..?
This depends on the main act (if they want to pay the support act or not and pay for the accommodations or not). If not, then band pays for everything, except what's on site (stage hands, catering, etc). A well established band like DT would probably pay at least for the accommodations and maybe the support act. The opening band usually gets paid in "exposure" by supporting the main act. Kscope (Tesseract) and Inside Out (Dream Theater and Devin Townsend) are decent labels and probably help the smaller bands with some touring support.
-
And now they're cancelling concerts in Europe only one week in advance. I'd love to know what are the logistical issues....it seems like they're not selling enough tickets. It's a pity.
-
And now they're cancelling concerts in Europe only one week in advance. I'd love to know what are the logistical issues....it seems like they're not selling enough tickets. It's a pity.
Afraid there is a lack of ticket sales yes, if you look at ticketmaster then it is probably disappointing ticket sales, how many were in London on Saturday? 4-5000?
-
Question - when a band brings an opening act on tour, does that opening act share the expenses such as for union work or even hotel fees etc..?
This depends on the main act (if they want to pay the support act or not and pay for the accommodations or not). If not, then band pays for everything, except what's on site (stage hands, catering, etc). A well established band like DT would probably pay at least for the accommodations and maybe the support act. The opening band usually gets paid in "exposure" by supporting the main act. Kscope (Tesseract) and Inside Out (Dream Theater and Devin Townsend) are decent labels and probably help the smaller bands with some touring support.
Things may be different now, but apparently when MP was involved and they did the Prog Nation tours, DT covered all the expenses of the opening acts. Here's an excerpt of an interview I did with MP at the end of the North American leg of PN09:
SH: Gotcha. In the last interview I read in the New Voice fanzine, you had mentioned wanting to make ProgNation a 5-band festival bill, and yet both the North American and European tours feature 4 bands.
MP: Once again, it’s another – mainly financial – logistical nightmare. At the start of this tour, in all the meetings I had with our booking agent, I was pushing for a 5-band thing that would start at 3 in the afternoon. And once again, there’s just so many behind the scenes reasons why those things are so much harder to implement than they appear on paper. Adding a fifth band on this tour is another bus, another 10 people you have to feed each day at catering – we pay for all the catering. Then there’s all the union fees – that means that load-in is gonna have to be that much earlier, the local hands at every show… It just gets harder and harder and harder, the more bands you have on the bill. There’s a million reasons why it is difficult. And believe me, my agent and my manager were trying to make Progressive Nation 3 bands. I put my foot down and said it’s gotta be at least four. I mean the Queensrÿche show in Maryland was a one-off example, but it’s a very big expense to do a tour like that. To be honest with you, this is the first tour in a very long time where we’re not making money – we’re breaking even. In addition to ticket sales being really light this summer – for every tour – which surely hurt us, we’re paying Zappa a lot of money and all of the other bands and the catering, the union fees and blah blah blah. At the end of the day, it would be way more financially feasible to do an evening with tour and just pocket the money ourselves. But to me, I want to offer something more to the fans. And I know that’s a debate – I know a lot of people would prefer an evening with – it would make more sense for it to be an evening with, but those 3 hour shows are tough on us.
As for DT canceling the Bilbao show perhaps due to low ticket sales, I haven't a clue, but it's always possible. It's strange they'd cancel the show a week out. It definitely wasn't a case of a band member being sick. It could have been a venue issue - like the venue wasn't up to the standards or requirements that the band dictated in their tour rider and this wasn't paid attention to until just shortly before the show. In interviewing Rikk Feulner, DT's long-time tour manager, I remember him saying that he's got a constant string of e-mails not just regarding the next show but the shows in the following weeks and even months. So it's quite possible that there was a make-or-break detail regarding the venue that was missed and only came to light now, and there were no reasonable options for them to switch to another venue. Has DT previously played at the venue they were scheduled to play on this tour?
Of course, if the show was canceled because of low ticket sales, there's no way they'd ever announce that. But if that were the case, I'd be curious to know who was the one to pull the plug - the band or the promoter. I'm guessing it would be the promoter who would probably rather just cut their losses rather than put the show on and potentially risk even bigger losses. But maybe I'm wrong. Anyone that has a background in that sort of thing have more insight?
-
Scotty, if the promoter cancels, doesn’t he/she still owe tha band for the date? I’m sure there’s contingencies in the contract.
-
And now they're cancelling concerts in Europe only one week in advance. I'd love to know what are the logistical issues....it seems like they're not selling enough tickets. It's a pity.
Afraid there is a lack of ticket sales yes, if you look at ticketmaster then it is probably disappointing ticket sales, how many were in London on Saturday? 4-5000?
4-5k would be a great turn out for DT IMO
-
And now they're cancelling concerts in Europe only one week in advance. I'd love to know what are the logistical issues....it seems like they're not selling enough tickets. It's a pity.
Afraid there is a lack of ticket sales yes, if you look at ticketmaster then it is probably disappointing ticket sales, how many were in London on Saturday? 4-5000?
4-5k would be a great turn out for DT IMO
Isn't the Oakdale 5,000 max? I was part of the privileged in front, so I couldn't tell, but I didn't think it was full a couple weeks ago.
-
As for DT canceling the Bilbao show perhaps due to low ticket sales, I haven't a clue, but it's always possible. It's strange they'd cancel the show a week out. It definitely wasn't a case of a band member being sick. It could have been a venue issue - like the venue wasn't up to the standards or requirements that the band dictated in their tour rider and this wasn't paid attention to until just shortly before the show. In interviewing Rikk Feulner, DT's long-time tour manager, I remember him saying that he's got a constant string of e-mails not just regarding the next show but the shows in the following weeks and even months. So it's quite possible that there was a make-or-break detail regarding the venue that was missed and only came to light now, and there were no reasonable options for them to switch to another venue. Has DT previously played at the venue they were scheduled to play on this tour?
Yes, they played there on the I&W and Beyond tour. It's strange since the tickets are immediately valid for the Madrid gig. It seems like they haven't sold enough tickets in Spain.
It's a shame since I love seeing DT live (and the last album rocks) and I can't organise a trip to Madrid only one week in advance.
It's disappointing buying tickets months ago and get the gig cancelled seven days before the event.
-
And now they're cancelling concerts in Europe only one week in advance. I'd love to know what are the logistical issues....it seems like they're not selling enough tickets. It's a pity.
Afraid there is a lack of ticket sales yes, if you look at ticketmaster then it is probably disappointing ticket sales, how many were in London on Saturday? 4-5000?
4-5k would be a great turn out for DT IMO
Isn't the Oakdale 5,000 max? I was part of the privileged in front, so I couldn't tell, but I didn't think it was full a couple weeks ago.
Maybe but the curtains were down to block off the sides and the place was half full of what you could buy so maybe 2k were there at most. The Beacon in NYC the night before is about 2.5k capacity and wasn't sold out. And after the oakdale when I saw them in NJ, it was maybe 3/4 full of a 1k capacity venue.
-
As someone who hasn't been to a show since Covid, the question I have is, how does DT's attendence compare to other tours?
-
Scotty, if the promoter cancels, doesn’t he/she still owe tha band for the date? I’m sure there’s contingencies in the contract.
Oh I'm sure of that, but who knows what's in the contract? Hard to say.
Yes, they played there on the I&W and Beyond tour. It's strange since the tickets are immediately valid for the Madrid gig. It seems like they haven't sold enough tickets in Spain.
It's a shame since I love seeing DT live (and the last album rocks) and I can't organise a trip to Madrid only one week in advance.
It's disappointing buying tickets months ago and get the gig cancelled seven days before the event.
Thanks for your explanation javidt, and sorry to hear that you won't be able to see them. In looking at where they played, that arena is pretty huge! According to Wikipedia, it holds over 15,000 people for basketball games, so I would imagine that the capacity for a concert has to be similar or even more. I realize DT is much bigger in Europe than North America and that they regularly play arenas there, but that's a lot of tickets to sell! Hopefully the promoters won't be completely scared off and they'll still play Bilbao again, but maybe in a smaller venue next time.
Isn't the Oakdale 5,000 max? I was part of the privileged in front, so I couldn't tell, but I didn't think it was full a couple weeks ago.
Maybe but the curtains were down to block off the sides and the place was half full of what you could buy so maybe 2k were there at most. The Beacon in NYC the night before is about 2.5k capacity and wasn't sold out. And after the oakdale when I saw them in NJ, it was maybe 3/4 full of a 1k capacity venue.
I haven't been there recently, but each of the times I saw them perform at the Oakdale (2004, 2006, 2007) they always had curtains blocking the sides off, so that's not surprising. I doubt they ever played a show there at full capacity.
-
As someone who hasn't been to a show since Covid, the question I have is, how does DT's attendence compare to other tours?
Hard to say. All depends on the bands. But I can say from my experience, covid hasn't stopped people from showing up to concerts. (for the most part) When I saw Clutch at the end of December during the huge omicron surge here, that was the only show I knew covid had impacted as it was "sold out" but not too packed at all and I had seen many sold out shows at that venue to know a lot of people chose not to come.
-
My experience is, it's close to the same. It's hard to tell, though, since I'm not seeing Celine Dion or Guns'n'Roses and all that. The bands I see are relatively smaller capacity. Though I'm surprised that DT is not even doing 2,000 people. That seems a drop off to me.
-
DT seems odd to me as their attendance is not consistent from my experience. If I'm being honest, I think the fan base is very fickle. When DT toured I&W and SFAM, those shows sold really well, but the tours before and after those, not so much. I think DT has an aging fan base who wants the classics and I dont think this forum accurately represents the average DT fan. DT has not, IMO, been good at drawing in new young fans. (and that brings me back to why DT should be joining tiktok).
-
Though I'm surprised that DT is not even doing 2,000 people.
But they're all married.
-
It's strange since the tickets are immediately valid for the Madrid gig. It seems like they haven't sold enough tickets in Spain.
That's what it sounds like to me. They have enough ticket sales to justify one show in Spain. Sorry you're unable to attend the Madrid show. I can imagine how frustrating this must be for you.
-
As someone who hasn't been to a show since Covid, the question I have is, how does DT's attendence compare to other tours?
Here in San Diego, they played twice on the DOT/SFAM tour and once for the On Top of the World tour, and all three times were packed/sold out. Both of the venues they played though are small theaters that hold about 1,200 people.
-
Although some external factors may have concurred to this outcome, we do have to realize that dt have consumed its fanbase (especially in Europe) and their back catalogue - which is the main reason people go to watch them.
Their live presentation isn't that impressive, ticket prices are way too high for a niche band as they are and their marketing is absolutely absent. Plus, as sad as it is, they're getting older and so is their fanbase.
-
Watching footage from Belfast (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DG8eAvEHTk). It's weird to see an arena crowd all sitting down. Such a strange dynamic.
-
Though I'm surprised that DT is not even doing 2,000 people.
But they're all married.
Just now go this :rollin
-
Thanks everyone for the support.
Yes, they played there on the I&W and Beyond tour. It's strange since the tickets are immediately valid for the Madrid gig. It seems like they haven't sold enough tickets in Spain.
It's a shame since I love seeing DT live (and the last album rocks) and I can't organise a trip to Madrid only one week in advance.
It's disappointing buying tickets months ago and get the gig cancelled seven days before the event.
Thanks for your explanation javidt, and sorry to hear that you won't be able to see them. In looking at where they played, that arena is pretty huge! According to Wikipedia, it holds over 15,000 people for basketball games, so I would imagine that the capacity for a concert has to be similar or even more. I realize DT is much bigger in Europe than North America and that they regularly play arenas there, but that's a lot of tickets to sell! Hopefully the promoters won't be completely scared off and they'll still play Bilbao again, but maybe in a smaller venue next time.
In fact the concert takes place in a smaller room inside the arena (Cubec Room: 3k-5k people). I hope next time they don't skip Spain. I totally understand that there is no offer without demand. At least one date.
I want to think that this is a promoter decision and they compensate the band, because people here are very upset with this decision and blaming the band. It's bad publicity and image for DT.
Although some external factors may have concurred to this outcome, we do have to realize that dt have consumed its fanbase (especially in Europe) and their back catalogue - which is the main reason people go to watch them.
Their live presentation isn't that impressive, ticket prices are way too high for a niche band as they are and their marketing is absolutely absent. Plus, as sad as it is, they're getting older and so is their fanbase.
I agree with all your arguments and specially with the last one. Many people that I know have "disconnected" from the band because they are not into this kind of music (heavier since ToT with the 8VM/TA exception) or they don't have the time/money to attend to the shows.
It's a shame, I was at the Madrid show on the SFAM anniversary Tour and the place was very crowded! That validates your argument about listening their back catalogue.
-
Watching footage from Belfast (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DG8eAvEHTk). It's weird to see an arena crowd all sitting down. Such a strange dynamic.
.
DT just don't work in seated arenas. It's why I've given this UK tour a miss.
-
Watching footage from Belfast (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DG8eAvEHTk). It's weird to see an arena crowd all sitting down. Such a strange dynamic.
.
DT just don't work in seated arenas. It's why I've given this UK tour a miss.
Yeah, the arena venue kinda killed the atmosphere, tbh. Not sure if the selection of venue is down to the promoter or whatever, but I really hope it doesn't put them off coming back. It's just disappointing when there are other venue options that would be way better suited.
-
With this tour clocking in at around 2 hours, and even the DOT/Scenes tour being shorter than a usual Evening With, are shorter sets likely to be the norm for DT going forward?
It could be. These guys aren't young. JR is senior citizen and MM and JLB are almost 60. Tour life means you are constantly on the move and having your sleep schedule messed up. It's gotta be hard especially when you consider the nature of the music they're playing. I would not be surprised if shorter shows are the norm.
Rush always kept to the Evening With format, but of course DT is playing even harder stuff. Still I think it would be cool if they did the 2-hr set most of the tour but finished with a special venue in an Evening With format to record the show for a future release.
-
Just saw that Devin Townsend got a 9 song set to open up for DT. That seems a lot more time than Arch Echo got in the states. That would be a really awesome show (IMO) to see Devin open for DT.
-
Just saw that Devin Townsend got a 9 song set to open up for DT. That seems a lot more time than Arch Echo got in the states. That would be a really awesome show (IMO) to see Devin open for DT.
I agree; that would have been killer.
-
Just saw that Devin Townsend got a 9 song set to open up for DT. That seems a lot more time than Arch Echo got in the states. That would be a really awesome show (IMO) to see Devin open for DT.
I believe I read somewhere (probably from Darby Todd, Devin's current drummer) that they are playing 75 mins.
-
With this tour clocking in at around 2 hours, and even the DOT/Scenes tour being shorter than a usual Evening With, are shorter sets likely to be the norm for DT going forward?
It could be. These guys aren't young. JR is senior citizen and MM and JLB are almost 60. Tour life means you are constantly on the move and having your sleep schedule messed up. It's gotta be hard especially when you consider the nature of the music they're playing. I would not be surprised if shorter shows are the norm.
Rush always kept to the Evening With format, but of course DT is playing even harder stuff. Still I think it would be cool if they did the 2-hr set most of the tour but finished with a special venue in an Evening With format to record the show for a future release.
Much harder material, and no disrespect to Rush, whom I admire greatly, but DT is just more locked in these days than Rush was.
-
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=539318364224302&id=100044384291096
Mike is simply awesome :lol
-
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=539318364224302&id=100044384291096
Mike is simply awesome :lol
"The Ministry of Lost Baguettes" :rollin
-
DT will headline Download festival Japan this year :metal
https://bravewords.com/news/dream-theater-to-headline-download-japan-2022-bullet-for-my-valentine-mastodon-steel-panther-at-the-gates-confirmed
(https://bravewords.com/medias-static/images/news/2022/dloadjap422.jpeg)
-
Thats a pretty cool set of bands to headline for them, that's awesome
-
Good question, DT's popularity will diminish in the coming years. Quickly DT playes on club stages in 5 years before they put up for good
DT with Portnoy had over 6 thousand on the octavarium tour both in Sweden and in Norway, now it is around 3.
Will this only decrease in the next few years or will this remain stable u think?
-
Good question, DT's popularity will diminish in the coming years. Quickly DT playes on club stages in 5 years before they put up for good
DT with Portnoy had over 6 thousand on the octavarium tour both in Sweden and in Norway, now it is around 3.
Will this only decrease in the next few years or will this remain stable u think?
You are kidding about this right-- the second sentence is a joke?
-
Good question, DT's popularity will diminish in the coming years. Quickly DT playes on club stages in 5 years before they put up for good
DT with Portnoy had over 6 thousand on the octavarium tour both in Sweden and in Norway, now it is around 3.
Will this only decrease in the next few years or will this remain stable u think?
You are kidding about this right-- the second sentence is a joke?
Now, of course, covid has some of the reason why fewer people go to concerts, but DT now competes against new bands now such as Leprous, Haken and more. Bilbao was canceled due to lack of ticket sales.
I'm just saying that DT is unlikely to play more than 10 more years and there are fewer ticket sales now than 2 years ago. Then it decreases. The question is just whether it decreases more?
Most people who come to DT are hardcore fans who have followed them since the 90's like me but we die in the end we too :)
-
Good question, DT's popularity will diminish in the coming years. Quickly DT playes on club stages in 5 years before they put up for good
DT with Portnoy had over 6 thousand on the octavarium tour both in Sweden and in Norway, now it is around 3.
Will this only decrease in the next few years or will this remain stable u think?
Considering the high cost logistics such as shipping and trucking all over the world and with gas prices what they are, I would think that their profit margins are razor thin along the problems that the covids introduces. I am a little surprised they decided to not only bring an opening act on the road but that they decided to go out and tour at all.
You are kidding about this right-- the second sentence is a joke?
Now, of course, covid has some of the reason why fewer people go to concerts, but DT now competes against new bands now such as Leprous, Haken and more. Bilbao was canceled due to lack of ticket sales.
I'm just saying that DT is unlikely to play more than 10 more years and there are fewer ticket sales now than 2 years ago. Then it decreases. The question is just whether it decreases more?
Most people who come to DT are hardcore fans who have followed them since the 90's like me but we die in the end we too :)
Considering the high cost logistics such as shipping and trucking all over the world and with gas prices what they are, I would think that their profit margins are razor thin along the problems that the covids introduces. I am a little surprised they decided to not only bring an opening act on the road but that they decided to go out and tour at all.
Modified because I screwed up the post.
-
Good question, DT's popularity will diminish in the coming years. Quickly DT playes on club stages in 5 years before they put up for good
DT with Portnoy had over 6 thousand on the octavarium tour both in Sweden and in Norway, now it is around 3.
Will this only decrease in the next few years or will this remain stable u think?
You are kidding about this right-- the second sentence is a joke?
One it's a question, not a fact, and even so, I don't know if the underlying fact is ACCURATE or not, but I didn't take it as a joke. I've seen some pretty huge names, some pretty big talents, in a 500-seat theater in Ridgefield. Roger Hodgson, Jon Anderson, The Dregs, Billy Squier, Ritche Blackmore...
There are far more arena bands from the 80s and 90s playing medium theaters than still filling arenas. DT was never a headlining arena band in the States; it's not an unfair question - even if it is uncomfortable - to ask whether they will be able to remain at that tier indefinitely.
-
Good question, DT's popularity will diminish in the coming years. Quickly DT playes on club stages in 5 years before they put up for good
DT with Portnoy had over 6 thousand on the octavarium tour both in Sweden and in Norway, now it is around 3.
Will this only decrease in the next few years or will this remain stable u think?
You are kidding about this right-- the second sentence is a joke?
Now, of course, covid has some of the reason why fewer people go to concerts, but DT now competes against new bands now such as Leprous, Haken and more. Bilbao was canceled due to lack of ticket sales.
I'm just saying that DT is unlikely to play more than 10 more years and there are fewer ticket sales now than 2 years ago. Then it decreases. The question is just whether it decreases more?
Most people who come to DT are hardcore fans who have followed them since the 90's like me but we die in the end we too :)
Leprous performed for 100 people in NJ, I don't think they are really knocking down DT's door. Having said that, DT are in a decline from my view. I'm not ready to say they will be a club band in the near future though. They still sell enough to play most mid to small theaters and sell even better when they celebrate an older album it seems. There's always the chance the next album resonates with newer fans to bring people in, but I'd say that chance is low. They don't do a good enough job trying to market to younger folks and mostly cater to the older. I'm not even sure the band would want to play clubs since the seated set up seems to be what they prefer. Maybe they call it quits if it gets to that point. Personally, I'd love to see DT in a club or even just a mid sized GA pit ballroom with no click track and just playing off the vibe of the crowd. I can dream.
-
It is feasible that their popularity will decrease in the coming years, but they'll play 'club stages?' What is our definition of club stage here? When I think of club I think of a 50-200 person venue that serves entrees while the band performs.
Personally, I think that the live entertainment business still has not fully recovered from COVID and what we are seeing-- if ticket sales truly down materially-- pertains to that (and cost inflation) way more than a decline in preference for DT. By the next album's release, things should be normalizing, God willing, and I think the ticket sales come back up.
-
It is feasible that their popularity will decrease in the coming years, but they'll play 'club stages?' What is our definition of club stage here? When I think of club I think of a 50-200 person venue that serves entrees while the band performs.
Personally, I think that the live entertainment business still has not fully recovered from COVID and what we are seeing-- if ticket sales truly down materially-- pertains to that (and cost inflation) way more than a decline in preference for DT. By the next album's release, things should be normalizing, God willing, and I think the ticket sales come back up.
Yes what is the club scene. There are probably up to 600 approx.
The starting point here in Norway
John DEE - up to 300 people
Rockefeller 1200, DT st
Oslo Spectrum 8000 - DT sells about 3500-4000 tickets today
Telenor Arena 24000
Thinking in the worst case, DT goes back to Rockefeller before they say thank you for good.
-
There's no hard line, and I defer to others, but "clubs" here in the States are up to say 1,200, no seats (at least on the floor area) and liquor service. The Paramount in Long Island, Toad's Place... There are theaters here as small as 500 (Ridgefield Playhouse) but they are fully seated and I wouldn't consider them "clubs".
-
I'm not sure there is a firm definition of a "club" but to me, it would mean around 500 or lower GA venue.
-
I'm not sure there is a firm definition of a "club" but to me, it would mean around 500 or lower GA venue.
Agree with this. I think of a club as a big bar with a stage and a GA area to watch shows at. Where Dream Theater play here in SD is a small 1,200 seat theater. All seated and a place where they not only have live music shows, but also plays and stage theater type events. That's the difference to me.
-
Good question, DT's popularity will diminish in the coming years. Quickly DT playes on club stages in 5 years before they put up for good
DT with Portnoy had over 6 thousand on the octavarium tour both in Sweden and in Norway, now it is around 3.
Will this only decrease in the next few years or will this remain stable u think?
You are kidding about this right-- the second sentence is a joke?
Now, of course, covid has some of the reason why fewer people go to concerts, but DT now competes against new bands now such as Leprous, Haken and more. Bilbao was canceled due to lack of ticket sales.
I'm just saying that DT is unlikely to play more than 10 more years and there are fewer ticket sales now than 2 years ago. Then it decreases. The question is just whether it decreases more?
Most people who come to DT are hardcore fans who have followed them since the 90's like me but we die in the end we too :)
Leprous performed for 100 people in NJ, I don't think they are really knocking down DT's door. Having said that, DT are in a decline from my view. I'm not ready to say they will be a club band in the near future though. They still sell enough to play most mid to small theaters and sell even better when they celebrate an older album it seems. There's always the chance the next album resonates with newer fans to bring people in, but I'd say that chance is low. They don't do a good enough job trying to market to younger folks and mostly cater to the older. I'm not even sure the band would want to play clubs since the seated set up seems to be what they prefer. Maybe they call it quits if it gets to that point. Personally, I'd love to see DT in a club or even just a mid sized GA pit ballroom with no click track and just playing off the vibe of the crowd. I can dream.
They've done it before... 2010 in Columbus OH (one of MPs last shows I think). Place was PACKED; GA standing room only. Awesome show for certain; stripped down, sweat flying, hard rockin' set (my first time seeing Mirror and Lie live). Of the 11 shows I've seen live (including Score... different vibe though and in it's own category), that Ohio GA show is the one that sticks in my memory like over-cooked pasta to a wall.
-
I've never seen DT in a "club" sized venue, but a couple times where it was GA without click near the end of the MP era of DT. Also saw them once with MM that had a GA pit, but played to click.
I still think one of the best live vibes show was actually the MP Shattered Fortress concert in NYC. Sold out GA ballroom type venue (Irving Plaza is 1k capacity). No click track, just letting it rock and the crowd was really into it. That was the most energetic "DT" show I've seen. Obviously it wasn't DT, but it was DT songs that felt so much more real and organic than the current DT live show.
-
I've never seen DT in a "club" sized venue, but a couple times where it was GA without click near the end of the MP era of DT. Also saw them once with MM that had a GA pit, but played to click.
I still think one of the best live vibes show was actually the MP Shattered Fortress concert in NYC. Sold out GA ballroom type venue (Irving Plaza is 1k capacity). No click track, just letting it rock and the crowd was really into it. That was the most energetic "DT" show I've seen. Obviously it wasn't DT, but it was DT songs that felt so much more real and organic than the current DT live show.
I was at that show as well and agreed. It was an event.
-
I'd say less than 500 capacity and no seats would constitute a club, at least in CT.
-
I'd say less than 500 capacity and no seats would constitute a club, at least in CT.
It has to be 750; Toad's is the quintessential American rock club, and it's 750.
-
I'd say less than 500 capacity and no seats would constitute a club, at least in CT.
It has to be 750; Toad's is the quintessential American rock club, and it's 750.
I'm not sure there's a hard number here. The Whiskey A Go Go is 500 capacity. That's kind of what I was thinking as my example (although I've never been).
-
Going back to clubs would be....
...
wait for it...
...
A perfect circle. :biggrin:
I'd say less than 500 capacity and no seats would constitute a club, at least in CT.
It has to be 750; Toad's is the quintessential American rock club, and it's 750.
I'm not sure there's a hard number here. The Whiskey A Go Go is 500 capacity. That's kind of what I was thinking as my example (although I've never been).
Same with the Troubadour (both of which are places I've played), which is also a 500 capacity, but I agree that there's no hard number.
-
That's fair. I'd consider Toad's a club. I didn't realize it held that many people. Dream Theater is on the wall downstairs there.
Here's a DT set from there from back in 93. It's a proper recording.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk3JyJ3JNgo
-
Paul, do you know of "Used Bin Radio" or the two guys that hosted it (Brad and Joe)?
-
I was lucky enough to play a show at Toads many years ago. I saw Dream Theater's name on the wall downstairs and thought it was awesome to play on the same stage as my favorite band of all time.
-
(https://scontent-bos3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/60195_10150281529050111_8065762_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=de6eea&_nc_ohc=nsIFBpy7T98AX-TyOT5&_nc_ht=scontent-bos3-1.xx&oh=00_AT9im16LSON60lrQYPEn1V0bQnzd64Zd7ZLap2QYOoRAoQ&oe=6297E6C5)
-
Paul, do you know of "Used Bin Radio" or the two guys that hosted it (Brad and Joe)?
The name rings a bell, but I think that's because I've seen you or others here mention it. No idea who Brad or Joe is.
-
Paul, do you know of "Used Bin Radio" or the two guys that hosted it (Brad and Joe)?
The name rings a bell, but I think that's because I've seen you or others here mention it. No idea who Brad or Joe is.
They are the hosts, but they are from that LA scene. If you've played the clubs on Sunset, even once, that's their millieu. They used to do fascinating shows where Joe (who played in bands) would just talk about how it was in real time. Being an east-coaster who grew up at the same time, but experienced it through Twisted Sister and the rest of the New York scene, it's fascinating. I can't remember their last names.
-
Sorry if this was posted before...
Just to share a nice Blabbermouth article (?!). Very interesting to get a little scoop about how it was MP going to that DT show and how it went with JLB and MM (IMO it really shows how he seems at peace with DT now - so good to see that!):
https://blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-seeing-current-dream-theater-lineup-perform-was-not-as-awkward-as-i-had-anticipated-or-feared
-
very disappointing in rome today. max 3000 in a hall that takes 11000
-
very disappointing in rome today. max 3000 in a hall that takes 11000
3k isn't a terrible turn out but in a building that can hold 11k would make it feel empty and kind of odd.
-
very disappointing in rome today. max 3000 in a hall that takes 11000
how many people usually attend DT shows in Rome?
-
very disappointing in rome today. max 3000 in a hall that takes 11000
how many people usually attend DT shows in Rome?
Let’s just say there weren’t so few since a loooooong time.
(I wasn’t there, but i’m even questioning if there were actually 3000 people there as it seems it was way less)
-
very disappointing in rome today. max 3000 in a hall that takes 11000
how many people usually attend DT shows in Rome?
Let’s just say there weren’t so few since a loooooong time.
(I wasn’t there, but i’m even questioning if there were actually 3000 people there as it seems it was way less)
at least very disappointing attendance
-
Interesting. 3,000 I think would be very good in some places. For example, the Beacon Theater in NYC has a capacity of less than that and DT plays there quite often.
-
Interesting. 3,000 I think would be very good in some places. For example, the Beacon Theater in NYC has a capacity of less than that and DT plays there quite often.
is probably 2000 tfewer compared to before. 3400 tickets have been sold in Oslo before they play on 19 May. + that devin townsend plays and he pulls a little extra too. the record is 6500.
romaeshould at least clear 3500 through the doors
-
This seems a bit of an overreaction, no? I read an article a few months back that concert attendance numbers are down in a lot of places, even for some big time popular artists, and I can't imagine things things have changed that much between then and now. Many are still hesitant to go to concerts because of COVID.
-
This seems a bit of an overreaction, no? I read an article a few months back that concert attendance numbers are down in a lot of places, even for some big time popular artists, and I can't imagine things things have changed that much between then and now. Many are still hesitant to go to concerts because of COVID.
This and I think the current setlist affects too. I, for one, will go to Istanbul concert but it's because it's my fav band and I wanna support but the setlist is a huge letdown for me.
-
I can understand a person deciding not to go because of the setlist, but I can't buy that it's a factor for the low attendance in general.
-
I can understand a person deciding not to go because of the setlist, but I can't buy that it's a factor for the low attendance in general.
I almost didn't go in March because of Covid and I live in a place that pretty much treated covid like it was just a cold. Europe was serious about it. So yeah, restrictions are lifted but it's gonna take some time for them to get more comfortable with it. I'm just now starting to be ok being in crowded places and I'm still considering masking up when I do.
-
Unpopular setlist isn't a reason for attendance to be meaningfully down across the board. I didn't even like the setlist but there is no way for me to know if that is a popular view.
-
And I'm back from my, if I counted right, 13th DT show in Milan!!! :metal
Venue wasn't packed, lot of free seetings, and enough people in the parterre to make it look crowded from down there (I was in the front, 7th row or so on Jordan's side). I've seen DT fill that place way better than yesterday, but it wasn't a sad sight by any means.
Devin Townsend was ok, I never really got into him or even bothered to check his stuff to be honest, not my style, but his show was cool and he was in big form - I'm sure people that love him had a blast and enjoyed his 60 minutes performance!
DT's show was great.... I didn't even realize they played "only" 10 songs, so caught up in the moment of living the show, enjoying the scenery, the performances, seeing them close to me once again surrounded by people having a great time.... aaaah how much I missed this!!!
The musicians were outstanding as always. James was, between two gigantic brackets, "perfect"? or, "perfect as it can be reasonably expected"? I mean, we know his range by now at 59 and how his enunciation sounds live, but aside from that, he had a very, VERY solid performance. If I listen now, at home, to a youtube video of his performance would I spot things he could have done better? probably yes. Yesterday, then and there, when I was in the midst of the concert and seeing him perform, did I thought "ew, James, you could have done better on this part"? no, not once. So I completely applaud his performance, and also his stage presence - he seemed more into it, he walked around a lot, tried to get the crowd going, he was even more energetic moving along to the music, sometimes in the past it was "singing, then get the hell away from the stage the moment an instrumental comes in" but this time he put some more effort to be "around" a bit more, and it was absolutely great!!!
I also liked the visuals, it seemed a more stripped down production but even without being over the top and bombastic, it was a very nice show to see.
Since they played only 10 songs, I guess I can do a very quick review...
Alien was nice, good enough opener.
Anything off Awake is welcomed in my book.
Awaken the Master sounded ok I guess, not a big fan of the song, I would have played Answering the Call instead.
Endless Sacrifice was a welcomed return. James was a bit "over acting" in the first stanza but it was ok. Jordan with the keytar made people go nuts!
Bridges in the Sky was awesome, everyone singing along to the bombastic chorus!!!
Invisible Monster was ok, not a big fan of the song but hey, you can't only play 10 minutes song...
About to Crash was great, can't even remember the last time I heard it, or if I even ever heard it live! James was quite good on this one.
Ministry... eh, I still think it's a great song derailed by a completely random solo section. People around me seemed VERY into it, maybe on the first rows you find people that love everything. People singing along the initial melody, a dude so moved next to me singing passionately the chorus..... great stuff! the solo section flew faster than I remembered, I probably spaced out during it :lol
View was FANTASTIC, the song grew more and more on me, and seeing it live I finally appreciated its greatness. Amazing performance and rendition.
And finally, I got to hear The Count of Tuscany live, whohoo!!! great song and the final part was breathtaking, I was so moved at the uplifting melody and everyone singing along the final refrain that I shed a tears or two, now that I finally got back the life I had before Covid. Awesome way to end a great concert!!!
With a catalogue so big, we all could have written a completely different setlist. I'm just happy they're still at the top of their game, yes, James included as far as I'm concerned, and that being finally free of anniversaries and albums played in full they had a "anything can happen" setlist and they dusted off songs I haven't heard in YEARS.
To think I wasn't even sure to go.... I mean, it's not that I don't like DT anymore, it's more that I'm currently lukewarm to their music. Distance Over Time came and gone and I rarely returned to it, I kinda like the latest album but it's never a top priority with all the other stuff I listen to. But seeing once again the guys there in front of me, enjoying their musicianship, listening to old song, seeing that James all things considered still has it.... I remembered why it's 23 years I'm seeing them. And I remember why I will have to see them again next time. I love those guys. I just can't let them go :heart
Thank you Dream Theater!!!! :metal
-
And I'm back from my, if I counted right, 13th DT show in Milan!!! :metal
Venue wasn't packed, lot of free seetings, and enough people in the parterre to make it look crowded from down there (I was in the front, 7th row or so on Jordan's side). I've seen DT fill that place way better than yesterday, but it wasn't a sad sight by any means.
Devin Townsend was ok, I never really got into him or even bothered to check his stuff to be honest, not my style, but his show was cool and he was in big form - I'm sure people that love him had a blast and enjoyed his 60 minutes performance!
DT's show was great.... I didn't even realize they played "only" 10 songs, so caught up in the moment of living the show, enjoying the scenery, the performances, seeing them close to me once again surrounded by people having a great time.... aaaah how much I missed this!!!
The musicians were outstanding as always. James was, between two gigantic brackets, "perfect"? or, "perfect as it can be reasonably expected"? I mean, we know his range by now at 59 and how his enunciation sounds live, but aside from that, he had a very, VERY solid performance. If I listen now, at home, to a youtube video of his performance would I spot things he could have done better? probably yes. Yesterday, then and there, when I was in the midst of the concert and seeing him perform, did I thought "ew, James, you could have done better on this part"? no, not once. So I completely applaud his performance, and also his stage presence - he seemed more into it, he walked around a lot, tried to get the crowd going, he was even more energetic moving along to the music, sometimes in the past it was "singing, then get the hell away from the stage the moment an instrumental comes in" but this time he put some more effort to be "around" a bit more, and it was absolutely great!!!
I also liked the visuals, it seemed a more stripped down production but even without being over the top and bombastic, it was a very nice show to see.
Since they played only 10 songs, I guess I can do a very quick review...
Alien was nice, good enough opener.
Anything off Awake is welcomed in my book.
Awaken the Master sounded ok I guess, not a big fan of the song, I would have played Answering the Call instead.
Endless Sacrifice was a welcomed return. James was a bit "over acting" in the first stanza but it was ok. Jordan with the keytar made people go nuts!
Bridges in the Sky was awesome, everyone singing along to the bombastic chorus!!!
Invisible Monster was ok, not a big fan of the song but hey, you can't only play 10 minutes song...
About to Crash was great, can't even remember the last time I heard it, or if I even ever heard it live! James was quite good on this one.
Ministry... eh, I still think it's a great song derailed by a completely random solo section. People around me seemed VERY into it, maybe on the first rows you find people that love everything. People singing along the initial melody, a dude so moved next to me singing passionately the chorus..... great stuff! the solo section flew faster than I remembered, I probably spaced out during it :lol
View was FANTASTIC, the song grew more and more on me, and seeing it live I finally appreciated its greatness. Amazing performance and rendition.
And finally, I got to hear The Count of Tuscany live, whohoo!!! great song and the final part was breathtaking, I was so moved at the uplifting melody and everyone singing along the final refrain that I shed a tears or two, now that I finally got back the life I had before Covid. Awesome way to end a great concert!!!
With a catalogue so big, we all could have written a completely different setlist. I'm just happy they're still at the top of their game, yes, James included as far as I'm concerned, and that being finally free of anniversaries and albums played in full they had a "anything can happen" setlist and they dusted off songs I haven't heard in YEARS.
To think I wasn't even sure to go.... I mean, it's not that I don't like DT anymore, it's more that I'm currently lukewarm to their music. Distance Over Time came and gone and I rarely returned to it, I kinda like the latest album but it's never a top priority with all the other stuff I listen to. But seeing once again the guys there in front of me, enjoying their musicianship, listening to old song, seeing that James all things considered still has it.... I remembered why it's 23 years I'm seeing them. And I remember why I will have to see them again next time. I love those guys. I just can't let them go :heart
Thank you Dream Theater!!!! :metal
Great review. I feel the same.
-
Man, I so appreciate everyone who has posted an in-depth review.
I NEVER get sick of reading reactions from attending fans...I'm bummed I missed this tour, but thanks to this thread, I feel as though I've vicariously experienced a fraction of the experience.
-
Glad to have been of service :hat
-
I was yesterday in Padova (north-east of Italy)
The guys were almost perfect.
Sure James is very conservative, but nowhere struggling as it was at the beginning of the US tour.
Thing is the show missed some magic.
Was it the all seating configuration, was it the setlist, the lack of improvisations, all the old people surrounding me, the almost half empty arena or maybe all these combined. Maybe it was just me.
I'm glad i went though, i really am.
-
I was yesterday in Padova (north-east of Italy)
The guys were almost perfect.
Sure James is very conservative, but nowhere struggling as it was at the beginning of the US tour.
Thing is the show missed some magic.
Was it the all seating configuration, was it the setlist, the lack of improvisations, all the old people surrounding me, the almost half empty arena or maybe all these combined. Maybe it was just me.
I'm glad i went though, i really am.
a mix, the setlist, covid fear, expensive tickets, + that DT does not get hold of the youngest audience. Are usually the regulars (old) :) who go to the concerts now. Too bad they have to play for gritty halls yes
-
I was yesterday in Padova (north-east of Italy)
The guys were almost perfect.
Sure James is very conservative, but nowhere struggling as it was at the beginning of the US tour.
Thing is the show missed some magic.
Was it the all seating configuration, was it the setlist, the lack of improvisations, all the old people surrounding me, the almost half empty arena or maybe all these combined. Maybe it was just me.
I'm glad i went though, i really am.
As I said I was in the middle of the crowd, 7th row or so, I am sure that I if was sitting on the not-exactly-full seats, I would have felt more detached from the "action". Being in the middle of everyone who is hardcore enough to try to be as close as possibile to the stage surely made a difference for the overall experience.
-
Thing is the show missed some magic.
Was it the all seating configuration, was it the setlist, the lack of improvisations, all the old people surrounding me, the almost half empty arena or maybe all these combined. Maybe it was just me.
I'm glad i went though, i really am.
This is one of things I miss the most about modern DT. I get that the sync'd up light show complicates things, but still. Thinking back to the ToT tour ... We had the instumedley, the extended Hollow Years, Beyond This Life with that 8 minutes of chaos thrown in.. it was wonderful and exciting. The last thing I can remember that was like that was on The Astonishing tour when A New Beginning got the extended guitar solo outro. Unless I'm just not remembering, I don't recall any song on this tour deviating from the studio version.
-
Endless Sacrifice was a welcomed return. James was a bit "over acting" in the first stanza but it was ok. Jordan with the keytar made people go nuts!
I'd have to see a list of all of the "keytar moments" across all of the tours, but this had to be one of the very best. :metal :metal :metal
-
I can understand a person deciding not to go because of the setlist, but I can't buy that it's a factor for the low attendance in general.
I almost didn't go in March because of Covid and I live in a place that pretty much treated covid like it was just a cold. Europe was serious about it. So yeah, restrictions are lifted but it's gonna take some time for them to get more comfortable with it. I'm just now starting to be ok being in crowded places and I'm still considering masking up when I do.
I wish they would tour the South FL area. They haven't played South FL since I moved here 8 years ago. Yea Orlando is only a 3 hour drive and Tampa a 4 hour drive but both shows were during the week so it made it impossible for me to go. Plus the cost of hotels in Orlando during snowbird season is extremely high. I have heard people say it's the promoters down here but I just went to see Dragonforce in Ft. Lauderdale a few weeks ago plus Satriani and Vai are coming here in addition to all of the other metal acts that play here. So I'm to believe it's DT decision not to come here not the promoters. South FL does have a vibrant metal scene. I see it every weekend at clubs in Broward and Palm Beach counties so I am not sure the reason they don't tour here. Still hoping next American leg they come here.
-
I can understand a person deciding not to go because of the setlist, but I can't buy that it's a factor for the low attendance in general.
I almost didn't go in March because of Covid and I live in a place that pretty much treated covid like it was just a cold. Europe was serious about it. So yeah, restrictions are lifted but it's gonna take some time for them to get more comfortable with it. I'm just now starting to be ok being in crowded places and I'm still considering masking up when I do.
I wish they would tour the South FL area. They haven't played South FL since I moved here 8 years ago. Yea Orlando is only a 3 hour drive and Tampa a 4 hour drive but both shows were during the week so it made it impossible for me to go. Plus the cost of hotels in Orlando during snowbird season is extremely high. I have heard people say it's the promoters down here but I just went to see Dragonforce in Ft. Lauderdale a few weeks ago plus Satriani and Vai are coming here in addition to all of the other metal acts that play here. So I'm to believe it's DT decision not to come here not the promoters. South FL does have a vibrant metal scene. I see it every weekend at clubs in Broward and Palm Beach counties so I am not sure the reason they don't tour here. Still hoping next American leg they come here.
I feel your pain, and I don't know for certain why they rarely hit south Florida, but I do think it's largely down to the promoters - certainly that's what the band has said in the past. If the band is already has shows lined up in the Orlando and Tampa areas, then it would make much more sense for them to hit south Florida than it would for them to skip it and go right on to Texas or Atlanta (or further north) since it would be closer and therefore much less travel expense. But if the promoters aren't willing to shell out enough money to make it worth their while, then they're going to skip it - that's just good business sense.
Keep in mind that (AFAIK), DT has a higher profile and (I would imagine) can command and therefore expects more money than Dragonforce; just as you probably aren't willing to take a pay cut to do job unless you were desperate for work, neither does the band. Regarding the other acts that do hit south Florida, it's hard to say how DT compares. I don't whether a Satch/Vai package is at the same level as DT in south Florida (they might differ depending on the city/market) and you don't specify "all of the other metal acts that play here" so I can't comment on them. Not only that, but the band relies on their booking agents and management to put together the tour - their job is to make the most money for the band given the parameters the band and management specify.
With all that said, hopefully with the stripped down approach to their current touring setup, they will make a stop closer to you next time they swing through North America. But even if they don't, with enough advanced planning, if all goes well you can still hit one of the shows in central Florida. I hope it all works out for you!
-
I'd say less than 500 capacity and no seats would constitute a club, at least in CT.
It has to be 750; Toad's is the quintessential American rock club, and it's 750.
I'm not sure there's a hard number here. The Whiskey A Go Go is 500 capacity. That's kind of what I was thinking as my example (although I've never been).
Just to circle back on this a little, there is a venue here in Raleigh called The Ritz, and I wouldn't call it anything other than a "club" - the entire floor is SRO GA, with a small balcony around the top with a few tables and chairs 9for a $40.00 upcharge), and it has a stated capacity of 1400. I mean, I've never been to a show there that actually had 1400 people, but I'm sure I've been there with around 1,000, easy.
-
Regarding the low attendance, I simply wasn't aware that DT was playing in my home town. The album was such a letdown that I don't care for DT related news.
I saw someone in the subway with a DT shirt who left the train at the cities biggest concert venue. I googled and found that DT was playing that night. Too late to get tickets and to attend.
Blame it on the lackluster album.
-
Blame it on the lackluster album.
Dang! :mehlin
-
Blame it on the lackluster album.
:\
-
Yesterday i went to Vienna for the first time since i came back home to Slovakia from the UK to see my second DT gig - i mean, both DT's were my second time seeing live ;D - and i'm more than pleased by performance of both bands. Devin's show was cool and he totally slayed with SYL's Aftermath (neck-breaking headbanging!) and Dream Theater were instrumentally absolutely phenomenal. James LaBrie is the weakest link, that's no discussion - but on the other hand, seeing Mike Mangini behind battery enjoying playing was satisfying enough ;) Setlist was OK to me, new songs like Awaken the Master or title track worked very fine live. Especially instrumental part of A View... was very beautiful and screen projection fitted fine. Bottom line, lovely prog metal evening with two of my favourite prog metal acts. :D
-
Blame it on the lackluster album.
Whether you thought the album is lackluster is one thing, but I don't think there's any reason to think that that's the general opinion. On RateYourMusic and Sputnik, it has the highest rating of the Mangini era, and on ProgArchives, it's behind only ADTOE. Yeah, you could argue that those sites are not representative of the whole of the audience, but they give us more information than one person's opinion.
-
Blame it on the lackluster album.
Whether you thought the album is lackluster is one thing, but I don't think there's any reason to think that that's the general opinion. On RateYourMusic and Sputnik, it has the highest rating of the Mangini era, and on ProgArchives, it's behind only ADTOE. Yeah, you could argue that those sites are not representative of the whole of the audience, but they give us more information than one person's opinion.
I think it’s a combination of things coming all together-
1. The COVID factor- not only are some people nervous about super spreader events; I think all the postponement, cancellations etc over the last two years have put a bad taste in people’s mouth
2. Ticket prices- money is tight for a lot of people- prices are up everywhere for food and gas- people have less and less money for entertainment. $80-120 is a tough sell for a lot of people, especially for an event that might get postponed for 6 months.
3. I love DT but let’s face it; at this point they aren’t bringing in huge numbers of new fans. That’s not strictly DT’s fault- rock/metal music has been in the commercial toilet for ohh, twenty years now. Frankly, it’s a testament to the band they can fill anything bigger than small clubs. BUT it may be a case where if you’re not growing, then you’re dying (which isn’t necessarily a huge negative for a band like DT at the tail end of their career). I think Astonishing cost them some fan equity, and the biggest buzz the band has had in the last decade was their star drummer (and main PR/hype man) leaving the band. DT has enough die hard fans to keep the ship afloat but it may be tougher and tougher to generate enough interest to fill these theatres every 2-3 years.
-
Blame it on the lackluster album.
Whether you thought the album is lackluster is one thing, but I don't think there's any reason to think that that's the general opinion. On RateYourMusic and Sputnik, it has the highest rating of the Mangini era, and on ProgArchives, it's behind only ADTOE. Yeah, you could argue that those sites are not representative of the whole of the audience, but they give us more information than one person's opinion.
I think it’s a combination of things coming all together-
1. The COVID factor- not only are some people nervous about super spreader events; I think all the postponement, cancellations etc over the last two years have put a bad taste in people’s mouth
2. Ticket prices- money is tight for a lot of people- prices are up everywhere for food and gas- people have less and less money for entertainment. $80-120 is a tough sell for a lot of people, especially for an event that might get postponed for 6 months.
3. I love DT but let’s face it; at this point they aren’t bringing in huge numbers of new fans. That’s not strictly DT’s fault- rock/metal music has been in the commercial toilet for ohh, twenty years now. Frankly, it’s a testament to the band they can fill anything bigger than small clubs. BUT it may be a case where if you’re not growing, then you’re dying (which isn’t necessarily a huge negative for a band like DT at the tail end of their career). I think Astonishing cost them some fan equity, and the biggest buzz the band has had in the last decade was their star drummer (and main PR/hype man) leaving the band. DT has enough die hard fans to keep the ship afloat but it may be tougher and tougher to generate enough interest to fill these theatres every 2-3 years.
Pretty good post. There was a recent interview where James commented about this. He said there was one venue in America they normally did pretty well at and it was poorly attended. The next night it was sold out or nearly so. This is a weird time for the world and markets are making things unpredictable.
-
Blame it on the lackluster album.
How many times have you listened to it? Because if you only wrote it off after a couple of spins, I think you might be selling yourself short.
When I first heard The Alien and Invisible Monster, neither did anything for me. Same with the rest of the album. But after a several spins, the album started to click and now I think it's the best of the MM-era albums.
So I encourage you to give it at least a couple more listens before writing it off as lackluster. :)
-
I honestly don't understand what people are looking for from Dream Theater if this album isn't it.
-
I am a fan of AVFTTOTW, but if there is one thing lacking for me, it would be the lack of personal emotional stakes in the songs. Whereas on DOT songs like Barstool Warrior, Out of Reach, and At Wits End felt like they were about people dealing with emotional situations, a lot of the songs on A View deal with subject matter I find more abstract. Nothing wrong with that, of course. But I feel DOT had a better balance. Both albums rock.
-
That's fair. Personally, I think Out Of Reach is one of their worst songs ever, but I understand your point.
-
Out of Reach may not be for everyone, but I think it's hard for anything on View to come close to the emotional weight of something like At Wits End.
-
Out of Reach may not be for everyone, but I think it's hard for anything on View to come close to the emotional weight of something like At Wits End.
Can't disagree with that. It's a phenomenal track.
-
I am a fan of AVFTTOTW, but if there is one thing lacking for me, it would be the lack of personal emotional stakes in the songs. Whereas on DOT songs like Barstool Warrior, Out of Reach, and At Wits End felt like they were about people dealing with emotional situations, a lot of the songs on A View deal with subject matter I find more abstract. Nothing wrong with that, of course. But I feel DOT had a better balance. Both albums rock.
I never thought of it that way. You're right (about everything). I think I do have a tougher time connecting with AVFTTOTW songs that the DoT songs but both albums are killer. I think DoT gets the edge here though
-
I am a fan of AVFTTOTW, but if there is one thing lacking for me, it would be the lack of personal emotional stakes in the songs. Whereas on DOT songs like Barstool Warrior, Out of Reach, and At Wits End felt like they were about people dealing with emotional situations, a lot of the songs on A View deal with subject matter I find more abstract. Nothing wrong with that, of course. But I feel DOT had a better balance. Both albums rock.
I never thought of it that way. You're right (about everything). I think I do have a tougher time connecting with AVFTTOTW songs that the DoT songs but both albums are killer. I think DoT gets the edge here though
Agreed. A View doesn't have those emotional touchpoints that BW and AWE give you, but I think the average overall quality and consistency of A View puts it ahead of DOT for me.
Having said that, I don't think any individual song on AVFTTOTW is better than At Wits End. Possibly Barstool too, but that's not as clear cut for me.
-
I don't think any individual song on AVFTTOTW is better than At Wits End.
This. And that's why DOT is rated higher for me.
-
I think Answering the Call is a really personal and relatable song. It's a declaration of what we can do as a world society to improve this place.
On the flip side, the title track, as cool as it is, is about mountain climbing and spelunking. JP has a knack for making some simple topics sound more emotionally fascinating but at the end of the day, it's still a song about mountain climbing and spelunking.
-
I think Answering the Call is a really personal and relatable song. It's a declaration of what we can do as a world society to improve this place.
On the flip side, the title track, as cool as it is, is about mountain climbing and spelunking. JP has a knack for making some simple topics sound more emotionally fascinating but at the end of the day, it's still a song about mountain climbing and spelunking.
I only see that reference in the video. I think the words are more a metaphor. Getting to the top of your game. The sacrifice to get there. How its only our mind that holds us back from accomplishing crazy hard things.
-
I think Answering the Call is a really personal and relatable song. It's a declaration of what we can do as a world society to improve this place.
On the flip side, the title track, as cool as it is, is about mountain climbing and spelunking. JP has a knack for making some simple topics sound more emotionally fascinating but at the end of the day, it's still a song about mountain climbing and spelunking.
I only see that reference in the video. I think the words are more a metaphor. Getting to the top of your game. The sacrifice to get there. How its only our mind that holds us back from accomplishing crazy hard things.
What geeeemo said is correct, based on various comments JP has made in interviews.
-
I think Answering the Call is a really personal and relatable song. It's a declaration of what we can do as a world society to improve this place.
On the flip side, the title track, as cool as it is, is about mountain climbing and spelunking. JP has a knack for making some simple topics sound more emotionally fascinating but at the end of the day, it's still a song about mountain climbing and spelunking.
I only see that reference in the video. I think the words are more a metaphor. Getting to the top of your game. The sacrifice to get there. How its only our mind that holds us back from accomplishing crazy hard things.
Yeah, but he is a little more literal in that song than others which makes it hard for me to get that out of my head. Things like, Reaching the Summit or talking about physicality, joining the ranks of the elite. It's kind of nitpicky on my part but it does keep me from having too much of a personal connection.
Compare that to Endless Sacrifice where he is talking about being in a hotel room and missing his wife, and yet he manages to make it sound so grandiose, like it could be about anything.
Just personal preference. AVFTTOTW is still awesome.
-
I think Answering the Call is a really personal and relatable song. It's a declaration of what we can do as a world society to improve this place.
On the flip side, the title track, as cool as it is, is about mountain climbing and spelunking. JP has a knack for making some simple topics sound more emotionally fascinating but at the end of the day, it's still a song about mountain climbing and spelunking.
I only see that reference in the video. I think the words are more a metaphor. Getting to the top of your game. The sacrifice to get there. How its only our mind that holds us back from accomplishing crazy hard things.
Yeah, but he is a little more literal in that song than others which makes it hard for me to get that out of my head. Things like, Reaching the Summit or talking about physicality, joining the ranks of the elite. It's kind of nitpicky on my part but it does keep me from having too much of a personal connection.
Compare that to Endless Sacrifice where he is talking about being in a hotel room and missing his wife, and yet he manages to make it sound so grandiose, like it could be about anything.
Just personal preference. AVFTTOTW is still awesome.
You are right about it not being nearly as emotional lyrically as lots of other DT song (And as a woman, how awesome would that be to have your hubby write that song!). I do find the middle part of A View gets me emotionally just with the music. DT can hit me emotionally with lyrics or music, sometimes just JP's guitar solos do it.
-
I think Answering the Call is a really personal and relatable song. It's a declaration of what we can do as a world society to improve this place.
On the flip side, the title track, as cool as it is, is about mountain climbing and spelunking. JP has a knack for making some simple topics sound more emotionally fascinating but at the end of the day, it's still a song about mountain climbing and spelunking.
I only see that reference in the video. I think the words are more a metaphor. Getting to the top of your game. The sacrifice to get there. How its only our mind that holds us back from accomplishing crazy hard things.
Yeah, but he is a little more literal in that song than others which makes it hard for me to get that out of my head. Things like, Reaching the Summit or talking about physicality, joining the ranks of the elite. It's kind of nitpicky on my part but it does keep me from having too much of a personal connection.
Compare that to Endless Sacrifice where he is talking about being in a hotel room and missing his wife, and yet he manages to make it sound so grandiose, like it could be about anything.
Just personal preference. AVFTTOTW is still awesome.
It's literal as those people who not only mountain climb or spelunk, but also surf, and deep ocean dive, are all staring death in the face. That feeling from accomplishing such a task, of facing the impossible.
That is why I love this song. It was even better seeing it live. Seeing that song and TCOT back to back was amazing.
-
I saw DT&DT last night and I had a good time :)
-
AVFTTOTW isn't literally about mountain climbing. It's about the psyche of someone who pushes their own personal and mental limits to achieve something. The mountain climbing is used metaphorically to illustrate the actual meaning of the lyrics.
-
AVFTTOTW isn't literally about mountain climbing. It's about the psyche of someone who pushes their own personal and mental limits to achieve something. The mountain climbing is used metaphorically to illustrate the actual meaning of the lyrics.
I'm pretty sure he said he was inspired by actual mountain climbing and yes, it can be used as a metaphor but as I said earlier, it is a little too literal. Not nearly as literal as the CoT but when he keeps throwing out mountain climbing metaphors, I can't really trick my brain into thinking it's just a general song about overcoming adversity.
-
I think we should all be more concerned that a song called The Count of Tuscany isn't being metaphorical at all. :)
-
AVFTTOTW isn't literally about mountain climbing. It's about the psyche of someone who pushes their own personal and mental limits to achieve something. The mountain climbing is used metaphorically to illustrate the actual meaning of the lyrics.
I'm pretty sure he said he was inspired by actual mountain climbing and yes, it can be used as a metaphor but as I said earlier, it is a little too literal. Not nearly as literal as the CoT but when he keeps throwing out mountain climbing metaphors, I can't really trick my brain into thinking it's just a general song about overcoming adversity.
Well, at least you recognize just where your limits lie. ;D
Even if it's literally about mountain climbing, it's still an awesome concept.
-
AVFTTOTW isn't literally about mountain climbing. It's about the psyche of someone who pushes their own personal and mental limits to achieve something. The mountain climbing is used metaphorically to illustrate the actual meaning of the lyrics.
I'm pretty sure he said he was inspired by actual mountain climbing and yes, it can be used as a metaphor but as I said earlier, it is a little too literal. Not nearly as literal as the CoT but when he keeps throwing out mountain climbing metaphors, I can't really trick my brain into thinking it's just a general song about overcoming adversity.
Its Mountain Climbing with no harness, Being a Flying Squirrel, Surfing the highest wave, and also, Deep Ocean diving which is what "Rapture of The Deep" is mentioning. "Returning to the womb, on the fringe of the unknown" is diving deep into the depths of the ocean. The video played during that part live made me go..."Oh yeah, that part makes sense now."
So it's not just about Mountain Climbing, but about these risks of life that people go out and experience.
The accomplishment of these death defying actions is being at the top and you feel as if you are at the top of the world. That is the view from the top to the world.
-
cool new trailer featuring the album's best song ;D: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRt9cju2AVE
-
Damn that trailer looked slick - I got super excited thinking it was for a Blu-ray.
-
Visually it did look great, though it was the least informative trailer ever.
-
AVFTTOTW isn't literally about mountain climbing. It's about the psyche of someone who pushes their own personal and mental limits to achieve something. The mountain climbing is used metaphorically to illustrate the actual meaning of the lyrics.
I'm pretty sure he said he was inspired by actual mountain climbing and yes, it can be used as a metaphor but as I said earlier, it is a little too literal. Not nearly as literal as the CoT but when he keeps throwing out mountain climbing metaphors, I can't really trick my brain into thinking it's just a general song about overcoming adversity.
I remember this being the case, as well. Only because after I heard him say it, I said 'I bet he saw 'Free Solo' and came up w that'. Cause the first and only thing I think while watching that doc/movie is 'Why?!'.
-
Damn that trailer looked slick - I got super excited thinking it was for a Blu-ray.
Does anyone here know whether or not it actually is?
-
Damn that trailer looked slick - I got super excited thinking it was for a Blu-ray.
Does anyone here know whether or not it actually is?
Seems to be just a tour advertisement.
-
I would think they would make an announcement if they're filming a show for a BD. They always have in the past.
-
Damn that trailer looked slick - I got super excited thinking it was for a Blu-ray.
Does anyone here know whether or not it actually is?
Seems to be just a tour advertisement.
I'm pretty sure they've done something similar for nearly every tour. Sometimes they end up using it for a song promo later on.
-
Damn that trailer looked slick - I got super excited thinking it was for a Blu-ray.
Does anyone here know whether or not it actually is?
Seems to be just a tour advertisement.
I'm pretty sure they've done something similar for nearly every tour. Sometimes they end up using it for a song promo later on.
Yeah, it's pretty normal for most bands. Take some clips from the first few shows to make a short package to use in advertisements on social media for the rest of the tour. Or like you said, get enough of those clips and you can make a full "live" music video for a song. Sadly, nothing from this video makes me think a blu-ray is in the works. I could be wrong, I'm not sure I've heard anything about them wanting to make a professional concert video, but history says they usually do. If anything, maybe the Rock in Rio show would make for a good opportunity.
-
Seems to me if you can make a slick looking trailer like that, it’s not a huge stretch to include all the footage for a DVD/BR release. I mean, they must have recorded all the songs to make the trailer.
-
Seems to me if you can make a slick looking trailer like that, it’s not a huge stretch to include all the footage for a DVD/BR release. I mean, they must have recorded all the songs to make the trailer.
I'd say that is incorrect. A LOT more goes into making a live concert video/cd than putting some clips to the album track. Not to mention a significant amount of money. Having said that, if they wanted to go the Chaos in Motion DVD route, yeah, you could make something like that pretty cheap and easily, but that's easily the worst live DVD they have and I doubt they'd want to put something of that quality out these days. Some youtube fan videos are better quality of audio and video than that these days.
-
Seems to me if you can make a slick looking trailer like that, it’s not a huge stretch to include all the footage for a DVD/BR release. I mean, they must have recorded all the songs to make the trailer.
I hope if they do record a live album for CD/DVD/BD release, they wait until they do another leg of shows and change up the setlist a bit so they could possibly include ALL of the songs played on the tour legs. Ideally, it'd be neat to see them play all 7 songs from AVFTTOTW and include them on a live release.
So far the current setlist runs about 105 minutes long, while the previous live album, Distant Memories, runs about 150 minutes long. I mean I wouldn't mind a short live album, a nice 2CD/1BD set could be neat, but I'd love to see them do what Rush did with their Snakes & Arrows Tour - do a second set of shows with swapped out songs, and add those to the first tour legs and make a longer album.
I also just want to hear them do every new song love. :lol
-Marc.
-
With attendance as it was for this leg, I wonder what a 2nd US leg would look like.
-
With attendance as it was for this leg, I wonder what a 2nd US leg would look like.
If they advertised it as a special show, like maybe performing all of SDOIT (the song) as part of the set for the album's 20th Anniversary, it might attract more fans to attend. It's also IAW's 30th anniversary but I think they've celebrated that album quite enough.
-Marc.
-
So far the current setlist runs about 105 minutes long
Mmmh maybe the playing time of the actual songs is 105 minutes, at my show they started just moments after 21:00 and when I looked the clock when it was over, it was 23:06, so that makes for 2 full hours of showtime...
-
So far the current setlist runs about 105 minutes long
Mmmh maybe the playing time of the actual songs is 105 minutes, at my show they started just moments after 21:00 and when I looked the clock when it was over, it was 23:06, so that makes for 2 full hours of showtime...
15 minutes of between song dead time, JLB banter, and the break before the encore seems pretty reasonable. Most of that is usually edited out for live albums, particularly the audio releases (CDs and vinyl). For the most part, if I'm listening to a live album, I don't think most people want to hear audience chatter and murmur between songs.
-Marc.
-
For the most part, if I'm listening to a live album, I don't think most people want to hear audience chatter and murmur between songs.
-Marc.
I mean, I do. That's one reason I'm listening to a live album in the first place.
-
So far the current setlist runs about 105 minutes long
Mmmh maybe the playing time of the actual songs is 105 minutes, at my show they started just moments after 21:00 and when I looked the clock when it was over, it was 23:06, so that makes for 2 full hours of showtime...
15 minutes of between song dead time, JLB banter, and the break before the encore seems pretty reasonable. Most of that is usually edited out for live albums, particularly the audio releases (CDs and vinyl). For the most part, if I'm listening to a live album, I don't think most people want to hear audience chatter and murmur between songs.
-Marc.
Made a playlist with the studio versions of the songs for the setlist and I get 114 mins approximately. I think you forgot at least one song when you made the math, Marc ;D
-
For the most part, if I'm listening to a live album, I don't think most people want to hear audience chatter and murmur between songs.
-Marc.
I mean, I do. That's one reason I'm listening to a live album in the first place.
Same. And I like the banter as long as it's not excessive or awkward. You put that stuff at the end of the track so you can hit next if you want to skip it without missing the music and everyone is happy.
-
So far the current setlist runs about 105 minutes long
Mmmh maybe the playing time of the actual songs is 105 minutes, at my show they started just moments after 21:00 and when I looked the clock when it was over, it was 23:06, so that makes for 2 full hours of showtime...
15 minutes of between song dead time, JLB banter, and the break before the encore seems pretty reasonable. Most of that is usually edited out for live albums, particularly the audio releases (CDs and vinyl). For the most part, if I'm listening to a live album, I don't think most people want to hear audience chatter and murmur between songs.
-Marc.
Made a playlist with the studio versions of the songs for the setlist and I get 114 mins approximately. I think you forgot at least one song when you made the math, Marc ;D
That is entirely possible. :lol
For the most part, if I'm listening to a live album, I don't think most people want to hear audience chatter and murmur between songs.
-Marc.
I mean, I do. That's one reason I'm listening to a live album in the first place.
Same. And I like the banter as long as it's not excessive or awkward. You put that stuff at the end of the track so you can hit next if you want to skip it without missing the music and everyone is happy.
I like a little bit, but for some bands, there can be quite a bit of dead space between songs that I don't much care for on live albums. Frontman banter can be hit or miss. I don't mind it when I'm watching a DVD or BD, though.
-Marc.
-
If I remember correctly, they kind of treated the live release of WDADR more like a studio album - there was a little live banter at the beginning and the end, but the middle of the album was pretty tight. I think it worked well for that release.
-
For the most part, if I'm listening to a live album, I don't think most people want to hear audience chatter and murmur between songs.
-Marc.
I mean, I do. That's one reason I'm listening to a live album in the first place.
Same. And I like the banter as long as it's not excessive or awkward. You put that stuff at the end of the track so you can hit next if you want to skip it without missing the music and everyone is happy.
Not everyone. I hate when song intros are on the end of the previous track. It doesn't really matter during a full album play-through, but when played out of context of the album, I would like the intro and song to go together.
-
For the most part, if I'm listening to a live album, I don't think most people want to hear audience chatter and murmur between songs.
-Marc.
I mean, I do. That's one reason I'm listening to a live album in the first place.
Yes!! I hate that so much.
Same. And I like the banter as long as it's not excessive or awkward. You put that stuff at the end of the track so you can hit next if you want to skip it without missing the music and everyone is happy.
Not everyone. I hate when song intros are on the end of the previous track. It doesn't really matter during a full album play-through, but when played out of context of the album, I would like the intro and song to go together.
-
Not everyone. I hate when song intros are on the end of the previous track. It doesn't really matter during a full album play-through, but when played out of context of the album, I would like the intro and song to go together.
Yes!
-
On a very side note - sometimes I wonder how a band is able to time their show down to a notch.
I mean, they know the playing time of the studio versions of the songs, and when they rehearse eventual additional outros or intros they can time that as well, but I wonder how they fill up the remaining time, and if they have conversation like "mh, we're 13 minutes short of 2 hours, what do we do? play a shorter song or allow James to introduce a bit more the other songs?" :lol
-
On a very side note - sometimes I wonder how a band is able to time their show down to a notch.
I mean, they know the playing time of the studio versions of the songs, and when they rehearse eventual additional outros or intros they can time that as well, but I wonder how they fill up the remaining time, and if they have conversation like "mh, we're 13 minutes short of 2 hours, what do we do? play a shorter song or allow James to introduce a bit more the other songs?" :lol
Dream Theater shows today seem pretty well rehearsed and timed. They likely have allotted time in certain parts between songs for JLB to say some things. I don't think they end up having time to spare because it's such a precise scheduled set. For other bands who change things up and play completely live with no backing tracks, sometimes you see them scramble to figure things out. At the Limp Bizkit concert I just saw Fred Durst asked someone on the side of the stage how much time they had left, he said 7 minutes so they played half a song and then did their final song cutting out a track from the set list. I don't know if that happened because they talked too much (seems likely) but that was an example of things happening live on the fly. DT may have had instances similar, but they would have been some time ago (like Sorry for the short set comment by MP).
-
They did have that yes. During my first show, three songs were cut out on the fly. (as well as during the Budokan show in 2004) And that ironic comment was James btw :D
-
Wasn't the "sorry for the short set" line (which was JLB), him being sarcastic at the end of the Roseland Ballroom show in NY that was filmed for the Metropolis 2000 Scenes From New York DVD? Because they played like a three and a half hour show.
-
On a very side note - sometimes I wonder how a band is able to time their show down to a notch.
I mean, they know the playing time of the studio versions of the songs, and when they rehearse eventual additional outros or intros they can time that as well, but I wonder how they fill up the remaining time, and if they have conversation like "mh, we're 13 minutes short of 2 hours, what do we do? play a shorter song or allow James to introduce a bit more the other songs?" :lol
Dream Theater shows today seem pretty well rehearsed and timed. They likely have allotted time in certain parts between songs for JLB to say some things. I don't think they end up having time to spare because it's such a precise scheduled set. For other bands who change things up and play completely live with no backing tracks, sometimes you see them scramble to figure things out. At the Limp Bizkit concert I just saw Fred Durst asked someone on the side of the stage how much time they had left, he said 7 minutes so they played half a song and then did their final song cutting out a track from the set list. I don't know if that happened because they talked too much (seems likely) but that was an example of things happening live on the fly. DT may have had instances similar, but they would have been some time ago (like Sorry for the short set comment by MP).
Haha, I don't know why it shocks me that Limp Bizkit is completely live with no backing tracks and has that level of flexibility to move in real time (though I know the band isn't bad; my beef is more with Fred Durst).
it's fascinating to me that the 70's - and then the 90's - were sort of eras of free-form concerts. Springsteen, Zeppelin, the Dead, would all occasionally "feel the moment" and play for anywhere from two and a half to four+ hours. Imagine having to coordinate lights and visuals as well as manage union labor requirements for a two+ hour extension to an existing two hour concert!
-
Wasn't the "sorry for the short set" line (which was JLB), him being sarcastic at the end of the Roseland Ballroom show in NY that was filmed for the Metropolis 2000 Scenes From New York DVD? Because they played like a three and a half hour show.
It was...such a great line!
He also said "especially special" during that show. Man, I love JLB.
-
Limp Bizkit has a live DJ on set who does supply some backing tracks. But I think that's different than just playing to a tape. The DJ is live and making changes on the fly. You can see this by how Fred and DJ Lethal interact. It was all a very pleasant surprise for me to see how "real" they were on stage.
-
Wasn't the "sorry for the short set" line (which was JLB), him being sarcastic at the end of the Roseland Ballroom show in NY that was filmed for the Metropolis 2000 Scenes From New York DVD? Because they played like a three and a half hour show.
Indeed it was, after an about 187 minute show, which was their longest at the time. (since surpassed by Luna Park 2012) I had a good laugh at the time when I listened to the album back in the day.
-
They did have that yes. During my first show, three songs were cut out on the fly. (as well as during the Budokan show in 2004) And that ironic comment was James btw :D
What was your first show?
Regarding the L@B show, no, 3 songs were not cut on the fly. MP had wanted to include 3 more tracks, but when he had been told of the tight curfew that was in place, he chose to cut those songs. That happened long before show time.
it's fascinating to me that the 70's - and then the 90's - were sort of eras of free-form concerts. Springsteen, Zeppelin, the Dead, would all occasionally "feel the moment" and play for anywhere from two and a half to four+ hours. Imagine having to coordinate lights and visuals as well as manage union labor requirements for a two+ hour extension to an existing two hour concert!
Let's also not forget that way back when, an encore was not expected or required, but something that was usually done off the cuff when the band/artist thought that the audience was particularly good and deserved another one.
Wasn't the "sorry for the short set" line (which was JLB), him being sarcastic at the end of the Roseland Ballroom show in NY that was filmed for the Metropolis 2000 Scenes From New York DVD? Because they played like a three and a half hour show.
Indeed it was, after an about 187 minute show, which was their longest at the time. (since surpassed by Luna Park 2012 I had a good laugh at the time when I listened to the album back in the day.
Sorry Max, but no again. You seem to forget that the 189 minute amount of time on L@LP is including 6 bonus songs taken from the second night. Each show performed at Luna Park was *roughly* 150 minutes in length. The longest DT show ever is the 2004 Paris show at about 210 minutes, followed by the second NYC show in 2002 at the Beacon Theatre (where they did the title track to SDoIT and all of Master of Puppets) which I believe was just slightly less.
-
Scotty, my first DT show was during the Met2 tour in 2000 in Stuttgart
this was the setlist: Laura Palmer'S Theme (Intro Tape)
Metropolis Part 1
Overture 1928
Strange Deja Vu
Fatal Tragedy
The Mirror/The Mirror (Reprise)
Another Day (W/ Extended Keyboard Solo At The End)
Guitar Solo (W/ Excerpt Of Master Of Puppets (Metallica))/
Gladiator Theme
Home
Keyboard Solo (W/ Excerpt Of Kindred Spirits (Lte))
Erotomania (W/ Extended Drum Fills)
Voices
The Spirit Carries On
Learning To Live (W/ Extended Keyboard Solo, Excerpt Of The Zoo (Scorpions) Before The Final Finale And Excerpts Of Whole Lotta Love (Led Zeppelin) And The Trooper (Iron Maiden) On Last Chord)
~~~Encore~~~
A Change Of Seasons (W/ New Solos And An Extended Guitar Solo)
Notes: The band had pencilled in Just Let Me Breathe, Acid Rain, and Caught In Alice's New Millennium to be played after The Mirror. However due to time constraints, the band did not play these songs.
Mike ended up playing Erotomania in it's entirity with his Ace Frehely mask on. (as per the entry on mikeportnoy.com) (and I found Mike wearing the mask quite funny honestly)
And apparently I was fooled by the length of Luna Park (it shows about 195 minutes on my server), as it happens.
-
Scotty, my first DT show was during the Met2 tour in 2000 in Stuttgart
this was the setlist: Laura Palmer'S Theme (Intro Tape)
Metropolis Part 1
Overture 1928
Strange Deja Vu
Fatal Tragedy
The Mirror/The Mirror (Reprise)
Another Day (W/ Extended Keyboard Solo At The End)
Guitar Solo (W/ Excerpt Of Master Of Puppets (Metallica))/
Gladiator Theme
Home
Keyboard Solo (W/ Excerpt Of Kindred Spirits (Lte))
Erotomania (W/ Extended Drum Fills)
Voices
The Spirit Carries On
Learning To Live (W/ Extended Keyboard Solo, Excerpt Of The Zoo (Scorpions) Before The Final Finale And Excerpts Of Whole Lotta Love (Led Zeppelin) And The Trooper (Iron Maiden) On Last Chord)
~~~Encore~~~
A Change Of Seasons (W/ New Solos And An Extended Guitar Solo)
Notes: The band had pencilled in Just Let Me Breathe, Acid Rain, and Caught In Alice's New Millennium to be played after The Mirror. However due to time constraints, the band did not play these songs.
Mike ended up playing Erotomania in it's entirity with his Ace Frehely mask on. (as per the entry on mikeportnoy.com) (and I found Mike wearing the mask quite funny honestly)
And apparently I was fooled by the length of Luna Park (it shows about 195 minutes on my server), as it happens.
That is what they were playing in the 2nd American leg
Laura Palmer'S Theme (Intro Tape)
Metropolis Part 1
Overture 1928
Strange Deja Vu
Fatal Tragedy
The Mirror/The Mirror (Reprise)
Just Let Me Breathe/
Acid Rain/
Caught In A New Millennium
Another Day
Guitar Solo/
Gladiator Theme
Home
Keyboard Solo
Erotomania (W/ Extended Drum Fills)
Voices
The Spirit Carries On
Learning To Live (W/ Extended Keyboard Solo)
~~~Encore~~~
Dead Poets Society (Intro Tape)
A Change Of Seasons:
I The Crimson Sunrise
Ii Innocence
Iii Carpe Diem
Iv The Darkest Of Winters (W/ New Solos)
V Another World
Vi The Inevitable Summer (W/ Extended Guitar Solo)
Vii The Crimson Sunset
-
On a very side note - sometimes I wonder how a band is able to time their show down to a notch.
I mean, they know the playing time of the studio versions of the songs, and when they rehearse eventual additional outros or intros they can time that as well, but I wonder how they fill up the remaining time, and if they have conversation like "mh, we're 13 minutes short of 2 hours, what do we do? play a shorter song or allow James to introduce a bit more the other songs?" :lol
A lot easier to do when you play to a click, I suppose. I have been to shows where bands have made adjustments on the fly. Probably more common at shows that have a hard legal or union curfew. If you watch videos of festival shows, when you get camera angles that show the side of the stage, you will often see a big digital countdown clock that the band can see so they know when they have to be offstage. From my understanding, it is usually made known to the bands that play that that is a firm deadline, no exceptions, and if you are not offstage by "zero," you are paying a hefty fine and possibly never getting another invite to play there again.
-
Yeah, the click helps you to time better the songs, but still you have to construct the set... my not-so-serious question was more about wondering how they perfectly reach two hours - ok, you rehearse the songs, you time them all during rehersal, but knowing already how long the songs will exactly last might bring you to a point where you're 10 minutes short, or over, 2 hours, hence my quip "do they stick in a shorter song or add another talking slot for James".
Another detour - I wonder if bands, to time even better the show, do a full dress rehersal with all the programmed pauses and talking slots, it might be weird for James to talk into an empty hall about their memories of Images and Words (I was thinking to a time he was talking more than usual, the 2017 tour) to see if they go overtime :D
-
On the Celebration Day (Led Zeppelin) DVD package, the bonus DVD is a live run-through of the entire set, filmed, including some of the banter from Robert. The actual show is a little different; the banter is mainly the same, but a couple of the songs - 2 or 3 - have extended solos. But they were able to sort of "map out" where the set was going and how long it would take to get there.
If my memory serves, there is a video of a similar thing in one of the Genesis box sets; I want to say it's the third one (the Genesis - 1983-1998 set) from the Mama tour, but don't quote me on that. It's not complete, but it's the same idea, and you have the pauses for Phil's crowd interaction (I don't remember if he actually does it or not).
Look, there are better musicians on this board than me, but in my time in bands, this isn't really rocket science. The only real risk - which I imagine DT is immune to because of their age, experience, and the click set up - is that when on stage, the tempos increase and the band races through the sets (I think this was always a thing with early Maiden with Clive Burr).
-
On the Celebration Day (Led Zeppelin) DVD package, the bonus DVD is a live run-through of the entire set, filmed, including some of the banter from Robert. The actual show is a little different; the banter is mainly the same, but a couple of the songs - 2 or 3 - have extended solos. But they were able to sort of "map out" where the set was going and how long it would take to get there.
If my memory serves, there is a video of a similar thing in one of the Genesis box sets; I want to say it's the third one (the Genesis - 1983-1998 set) from the Mama tour, but don't quote me on that. It's not complete, but it's the same idea, and you have the pauses for Phil's crowd interaction (I don't remember if he actually does it or not).
Look, there are better musicians on this board than me, but in my time in bands, this isn't really rocket science. The only real risk - which I imagine DT is immune to because of their age, experience, and the click set up - is that when on stage, the tempos increase and the band races through the sets (I think this was always a thing with early Maiden with Clive Burr).
You're right, it's not at all.
Having played hundreds of shows (man, do I feel those stage jumps in my knees these days), you'd be amazed how precise a locked-in, well-rehearsed band can be. Even at my piddly level, there was a time when my main band would play a ten song set a few days in a row at different venues, and our stage time would be within seconds across all three times.
We didn't play to a click, but you are dialed in, you don't need a click to know if you are playing at the same tempo as the record.
-
Another detour - I wonder if bands, to time even better the show, do a full dress rehersal with all the programmed pauses and talking slots, it might be weird for James to talk into an empty hall about their memories of Images and Words (I was thinking to a time he was talking more than usual, the 2017 tour) to see if they go overtime :D
I'd say with confidence that many bands do the full show rehearsal before hitting the road, maybe even including some banter just to get a feel for it although the banter may change night to night based on whats going through his mind at that moment. Like JLB on this tour does his banter in the same spot of the set but it's usually different night by night.
I'd imagine Iron Maiden have just finished doing all their rehearsals because these rehearsals will also include all the lighting, video, and whatever stage show you might be doing. Sometimes bands will even rent a venue before a tour to do the full rehearsals so they can do it exactly how they will be doing it night after night. It's beyond just the band, the whole crew needs to be in sync for these bigger tours.
-
Another detour - I wonder if bands, to time even better the show, do a full dress rehersal with all the programmed pauses and talking slots, it might be weird for James to talk into an empty hall about their memories of Images and Words (I was thinking to a time he was talking more than usual, the 2017 tour) to see if they go overtime :D
I'd say with confidence that many bands do the full show rehearsal before hitting the road, maybe even including some banter just to get a feel for it although the banter may change night to night based on whats going through his mind at that moment. Like JLB on this tour does his banter in the same spot of the set but it's usually different night by night.
I'd imagine Iron Maiden have just finished doing all their rehearsals because these rehearsals will also include all the lighting, video, and whatever stage show you might be doing. Sometimes bands will even rent a venue before a tour to do the full rehearsals so they can do it exactly how they will be doing it night after night. It's beyond just the band, the whole crew needs to be in sync for these bigger tours.
That last part is true; I don't know if it still happens much, but there were bands - Rush was one, Genesis was another - that would do a night before opening night at the venue OF opening night and it would be basically a full run-through of everything and everyone, except the audience. Well, the full paying audience. There would be friends and family there to observe.
-
Scotty, my first DT show was during the Met2 tour in 2000 in Stuttgart
<snip>
Notes: The band had pencilled in Just Let Me Breathe, Acid Rain, and Caught In Alice's New Millennium to be played after The Mirror. However due to time constraints, the band did not play these songs.
These comments are very curious - I don't know where they came from, as they're not in the original e-mail that I received from MP for that setlist, and I know I wouldn't have made that typo (it's Caught in a New Millennium, not Caught in Alice's New Millennium). Must've been added later by someone else, perhaps based on comments on the forum.
The interesting thing is that throughout that whole last leg of the tour, those 3 tracks were not played at any of the shows, aside from Den Bosch and London, so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for those songs not to have been played.