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General => Movies and TV => Topic started by: MinistroRaven on December 22, 2021, 06:29:21 PM
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Trailer that’s shown on the latest Spider-Man movie has been released
https://youtu.be/Rt_UqUm38BI
:metal
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHOU92zXsAED6I9?format=jpg&name=large)
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That’s a sick art!
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This is going to be AWESOME.
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New trailer
https://youtu.be/b-6ph5og-UE
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Woah. Was that voice who I think it was???
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Woah. Was that voice who I think it was???
:biggrin: :metal
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Oh
My
Fucking
God
:hefdaddy
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I am so hyped
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BREAKING: PATRICK STEWART AS PROFESSOR XAVIER IN #MultiverseOfMadness
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BREAKING: PATRICK STEWART AS PROFESSOR XAVIER IN #MultiverseOfMadness
So, so disappointed they are going this direction. :jumpshark:
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BREAKING: PATRICK STEWART AS PROFESSOR XAVIER IN #MultiverseOfMadness
So, so disappointed they are going this direction. :jumpshark:
Why?
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BREAKING: PATRICK STEWART AS PROFESSOR XAVIER IN #MultiverseOfMadness
So, so disappointed they are going this direction. :jumpshark:
I'll be honest, I totally get this.
I had a similar feeling when they first started leaking and advertising No Way Home. I thought using the old villains and possibly the other two spideys was a very bad idea. I imagined it'd be super gimmicky and feel hollow and without meaning or purpose. Boy....was I wrong. They pulled it off better than I could have ever imagined.
Because of their success and strategy with No Way Home....and ONLY because of that....I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one and not assume the worst.
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Though I do feel bad for whatever the next Marvel movie is that doesn't feature characters from non-MCU Marvel movies. People are going to be let down when Venom doesn't show up in Thor or Ben Affleck's Daredevil doesn't show up in Shang Chi 2 or whatever.
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Hoping it will be used as an avenue to introduce the MCU main universe's own version of the xmen. I have faith in the MCU.
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The multiversal Illuminati is happening! Hoping we see alternate versions of Iron Man, Black Panther, and Black Bolt, and perhaps Namor on screen for the first time! And I bet this gives credence to the rumors that Ioan Gruffudd will return as Reed Richards.
This trailer definitely showed a lot more than I expected, so I hope the next trailer and/or TV spots don't give away too much.
Also, the new poster shows glass shards reflecting various things, including Captain Carter's shield, so be ready for more What If references!
-Marc.
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Also if Reb Brown and/or Matt Salinger don't make a cameo as Captain America, then this movie is trash.
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BREAKING: PATRICK STEWART AS PROFESSOR XAVIER IN #MultiverseOfMadness
So, so disappointed they are going this direction. :jumpshark:
I'll be honest, I totally get this.
I had a similar feeling when they first started leaking and advertising No Way Home. I thought using the old villains and possibly the other two spideys was a very bad idea. I imagined it'd be super gimmicky and feel hollow and without meaning or purpose. Boy....was I wrong. They pulled it off better than I could have ever imagined.
Because of their success and strategy with No Way Home....and ONLY because of that....I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one and not assume the worst.
And I likewise get what you are saying. I felt the same way, both before and after No Way Home. But while it worked there, and extremely well, I might add, part of the reason why it worked is because it was novel. As a one-time thing, it was cool. Having something similar happen again just feels...I dunno...cheap? Cash grab? Marvel running out of ideas? Generally, I hate that kind of criticism, and I don't generally feel comfortable saying such things. But that is just what this feels like. The MCU is as good as it is because it started fresh, told good stories, and developed good characters, and, like it or not, is free from the "Marvel" stories that came before, whatever studio they happened to come from. Incorporating more and more of those other threads through the cheap device of, "well, it just happened in an alternate universe" feels...well, cheap.
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I loved it, and love the introduction of the Illuminati - in whatever shape they take. I am stoked about the limitless possibilities of what could be imagined through the Multiverse.
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Woah. Was that voice who I think it was???
No, it don't think that was Gene Simmons. I could be wrong though.
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Woah. Was that voice who I think it was???
Should go full meta madness. Patrick Stewart walks in shot in full Star Fleet uniform.
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Woah. Was that voice who I think it was???
Should go full meta madness. Patrick Stewart walks in shot in full Star Fleet uniform.
With John De Lancie in tow.
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Woah. Was that voice who I think it was???
Should go full meta madness. Patrick Stewart walks in shot in full Star Fleet uniform.
With John De Lancie in tow.
Stop.. My nerd boner can only get so hard
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Woah. Was that voice who I think it was???
Should go full meta madness. Patrick Stewart walks in shot in full Star Fleet uniform.
I'm down!
Bosk, this better?
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:youfail:
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https://youtu.be/WjnsXb3K9O8
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After spending 10 minutes trying to get tickets on Fandango, I got an error and lost the tickets. Then I tried again and it just didn't work. Then I went to AMC and after waiting some time, another error. Tried again and managed to secure two pretty decent seats to Thursday night opening on May 5th.
Almost 60 bucks! God damn this is getting nuts.
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https://youtu.be/WjnsXb3K9O8
This is a movie that I can't help but have high expectations for it, and I really hope it delivers.
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A little worried about the length. It's maybe 2 hours without credits. That seems like a LOT of story to cram into that. But hopefully they pull it off!
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I can't wait for this movie to come out because rumor has it the Avatar 2 trailer will premiere before it on opening day! :chino:
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Final trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R9ZLs53feE
Latest teaser: HUGE SPOILER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne7y9_AbBsY
:metal
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Latest clips/trailers/TV spots have started showing some sneak peeks at character cameos so if you wish to be as un-spoiled as possible, resist the urge to check out any of these online!
A recent tv spot shows one character that has been teased in one of the official posters, but I didn't think Marvel had it in them to actually SHOW THEM in a tv spot for the film with just a week to go. I don't mind TOO much because the rumors surrounding this characters inclusion were swirling around since last year, but it would've been a neat surprise to not have seen that particular moment/scene. I guess if they're showing off THIS much now, I can't imagine how much more is actually in the film itself.
-Marc.
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Latest clips/trailers/TV spots have started showing some sneak peeks at character cameos so if you wish to be as un-spoiled as possible, resist the urge to check out any of these online!
A recent tv spot shows one character that has been teased in one of the official posters, but I didn't think Marvel had it in them to actually SHOW THEM in a tv spot for the film with just a week to go. I don't mind TOO much because the rumors surrounding this characters inclusion were swirling around since last year, but it would've been a neat surprise to not have seen that particular moment/scene. I guess if they're showing off THIS much now, I can't imagine how much more is actually in the film itself.
-Marc.
I'm wondering if the illuminati stuff will be earlier in the film than we think.
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Latest clips/trailers/TV spots have started showing some sneak peeks at character cameos so if you wish to be as un-spoiled as possible, resist the urge to check out any of these online!
A recent tv spot shows one character that has been teased in one of the official posters, but I didn't think Marvel had it in them to actually SHOW THEM in a tv spot for the film with just a week to go. I don't mind TOO much because the rumors surrounding this characters inclusion were swirling around since last year, but it would've been a neat surprise to not have seen that particular moment/scene. I guess if they're showing off THIS much now, I can't imagine how much more is actually in the film itself.
-Marc.
I'm wondering if the illuminati stuff will be earlier in the film than we think.
I'm thinking it'll be Act 2/middle of the film stuff. A sort of way for our Strange to get from point A to point B of the film.
-Marc.
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Latest clips/trailers/TV spots have started showing some sneak peeks at character cameos so if you wish to be as un-spoiled as possible, resist the urge to check out any of these online!
A recent tv spot shows one character that has been teased in one of the official posters, but I didn't think Marvel had it in them to actually SHOW THEM in a tv spot for the film with just a week to go. I don't mind TOO much because the rumors surrounding this characters inclusion were swirling around since last year, but it would've been a neat surprise to not have seen that particular moment/scene. I guess if they're showing off THIS much now, I can't imagine how much more is actually in the film itself.
-Marc.
I'm wondering if the illuminati stuff will be earlier in the film than we think.
I'm thinking it'll be Act 2/middle of the film stuff. A sort of way for our Strange to get from point A to point B of the film.
-Marc.
Yeah, it'll be that minor conflict resolution moment before shit really hits the fan.
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So who all is seeing this film this week? I've got my ticket for Thursday at 3:10pm EST. If I remember to, I'll be sure to post some of my spoiler-free thoughts here after I get home from the film. I figure it'll be at least a week before we can discuss spoilers here in this thread, unless we change the OP to reflect spoiler discussion. Either way, I am psyched to see this, and in just under four days, I'll be coming out of my showing and probably feeling the full gamut of emotions that any major MCU film might provide. As hyped as I was for No Way Home, this might be the first MCU film I've felt this way about since Infinity War and Endgame, and that's been three years since the latter.
-Marc.
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Seeing it Thursday evening. Won’t discuss spoilers for a week or so as well.
I feel similar to Spider-Man. Nervous. This is just TOO easy to screw up. I hope it’s good and No Way Home blew me away so who knows? But I’m trying to not have high expectations and hope it’s at least good enough.
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I have tickets for Saturday afternoon. Hope I can avoid spoilers til then.
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I have tickets for Saturday afternoon. Hope I can avoid spoilers til then.
I've heard rumors that Benedict Cumberbatch is in the movie, but it hasn't been confirmed yet.
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I saw a thumbnail in my YT feed of a character spoiler. Kinda bummed to get spoiled, but c'est la vie. I'm really not sure when I'll be able to see it. Seeing as how I'm neck deep in COVID symptoms (but no positive test yet), jingle.son is working all weekend 10-7:30, and Sunday is Mother's Day ... it's not going to be until next week that we get a chance to take it in.
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I got tickets for the first showing on Thursday, and will be sure to text jingle all the big spoilers as they happen live....
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I have tickets for Saturday afternoon. Hope I can avoid spoilers til then.
I've heard rumors that Benedict Cumberbatch is in the movie, but it hasn't been confirmed yet.
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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For the record, I’ve seen one division, Loki, and What If all referenced just in the final trailer alone. we can’t rewatch them all, but it seemed like Loki might be the most important story thread to the upcoming movie. So the wife and I are committed to re-watching the show this week in preparation. If we have time when we’re done, we’re also going to rewatch the ladder half of What If.
I’m halfway into the opening episode of Loki and I’m really strongly suggesting that all of you follow my lead. I think this is going to be pretty important. Plus, it’s a damn fine show! :rollin :rollin
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I have tickets for Saturday afternoon. Hope I can avoid spoilers til then.
I've heard rumors that Benedict Cumberbatch is in the movie, but it hasn't been confirmed yet.
What does he play?
I'm on track to see this film sometime in the summer of 2025 based on my absorption of the rest of the MCU. :) :) :)
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I have tickets for Saturday afternoon. Hope I can avoid spoilers til then.
I've heard rumors that Benedict Cumberbatch is in the movie, but it hasn't been confirmed yet.
What does he play?
Well, it's not been confirmed Benedict is even IN the new Dr. Strange movie, but the rumors are that he'll play a variant of Ash Williams.
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I have tickets for Saturday afternoon. Hope I can avoid spoilers til then.
I've heard rumors that Benedict Cumberbatch is in the movie, but it hasn't been confirmed yet.
What does he play?
Well, it's not been confirmed Benedict is even IN the new Dr. Strange movie, but the rumors are that he'll play a variant of Ash Williams.
.2 hands Ash or Chainsaw Ash?
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I changed the thread title.
No spoilers, at least for a week please.
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Less than 2 days now...
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Good reviews. 89% on Rottentomatoes so far.
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All the people I trust have reviewed it with a strong B so far.
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I’ve heard EO is the best thing about it, which I expected.
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All the people I trust have reviewed it with a strong B so far.
Yeah I'm seeing a lot of 7 and 8's outta 10. Not an outright classic but another strong entry.
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Just bought a ticket for a Saturday matinee. This will be my first ever MCU theater experience. Could not pass this one up. The first Dr. Strange film is probably my favorite MCU movie and Cumberbatch is just excellent in the role. With the whole multiverse and the inherent spoilers, I had to knock this one out asap.
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I’ve heard EO is the best thing about it, which I expected.
Yeah, that should come as a surprise to absolutely nobody.
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Have tickets for tomorrow.
Fiancée feeling little sick. Took a Covid test. I’m gonna be soooooo pissed if it’s positive.
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Have tickets for tomorrow.
Fiancée feeling little sick. Took a Covid test. I’m gonna be soooooo pissed if it’s positive.
Oh man that'd suck. Putting out the positive vibes for ya.
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Have tickets for tomorrow.
Fiancée feeling little sick. Took a Covid test. I’m gonna be soooooo pissed if it’s positive.
Oh man that'd suck. Putting out the positive vibes for ya.
No positive anything! We want negative all the way!
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You will not be sick, but your posture is poor, Adami..
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You will not be sick, but your posture is poor, Adami..
You dare?!?!?
Also her test was negative. Thank Xenu.
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That just means I know I'm right.
I'll still love you openly at Nick's wedding. Just let your Fiancée know you will be groped even with that posture.
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I'm happy you dodged that bullet, Adami. It would have been a test of your relationship for you to have left her home sick while you went anyway. Thankfully it didn't come to that. ;) :) :) :)
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I'm happy you dodged that bullet, Adami. It would have been a test of your relationship for you to have left her home sick while you went anyway. Thankfully it didn't come to that. ;) :) :) :)
Oh that would've been easy. But if she was positive, I wouldn't have felt safe going myself. That's when I would have had to destroy her for it.
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I hate this stupid Internet culture where everyone feels it is their duty to be first to break the scoop. Already, there are tons of spoilers out there in the most seemingly-innocuous places. Luckily, I haven't seen anything spoilery--yet--but have come close. Sucks that I have to actively avoid the Internet just to keep having a movie that isn't even out yet spoiled until I can see it later this weekend.
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I hate this stupid Internet culture where everyone feels it is their duty to be first to break the scoop. Already, there are tons of spoilers out there in the most seemingly-innocuous places. Luckily, I haven't seen anything spoilery--yet--but have come close. Sucks that I have to actively avoid the Internet just to keep having a movie that isn't even out yet spoiled until I can see it later this weekend.
Completely agree. Remember when we used to go to a movie and just be surprised? I am not sure why internet culture has decided that is a bad thing.
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I hate this stupid Internet culture where everyone feels it is their duty to be first to break the scoop. Already, there are tons of spoilers out there in the most seemingly-innocuous places. Luckily, I haven't seen anything spoilery--yet--but have come close. Sucks that I have to actively avoid the Internet just to keep having a movie that isn't even out yet spoiled until I can see it later this weekend.
Completely agree. Remember when we used to go to a movie and just be surprised? I am not sure why internet culture has decided that is a bad thing.
I had one of the best moments in Game of Thrones spoiled (I watch the next day) on LinkedIn of all places. I was so pissed.
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I hate this stupid Internet culture where everyone feels it is their duty to be first to break the scoop. Already, there are tons of spoilers out there in the most seemingly-innocuous places. Luckily, I haven't seen anything spoilery--yet--but have come close. Sucks that I have to actively avoid the Internet just to keep having a movie that isn't even out yet spoiled until I can see it later this weekend.
Completely agree. Remember when we used to go to a movie and just be surprised? I am not sure why internet culture has decided that is a bad thing.
I had one of the best moments in Game of Thrones spoiled (I watch the next day) on LinkedIn of all places. I was so pissed.
I had one random asshole update his cover pic on Facebook to the ice dragon.. 2 days before the episode aired.
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I hate this stupid Internet culture where everyone feels it is their duty to be first to break the scoop. Already, there are tons of spoilers out there in the most seemingly-innocuous places. Luckily, I haven't seen anything spoilery--yet--but have come close. Sucks that I have to actively avoid the Internet just to keep having a movie that isn't even out yet spoiled until I can see it later this weekend.
Completely agree. Remember when we used to go to a movie and just be surprised? I am not sure why internet culture has decided that is a bad thing.
3 billion dweebs want their clicks.
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The movie was o…k. Nothing amazing but it wasn’t a bad film either. 7/10
Last post credit scene is the best of all time.
When they said Marvel’s first horror movie, they definitely meant it, please don’t bring your kids to the movie. Watch it first and decide later.
The horror aspects were very cool. Wanda was scary af
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This is my most hyped MCU film since Endgame I think. I said that about No Way Home but Strange and Spidey are my favorites and I've been imagining all the things that could happen in this one. It feels like I've been waiting for this movie FOREVER. I can't wait to see where this leads. Just a few minutes till it starts. Will report back spoiler free.
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This is my most hyped MCU film since Endgame I think. I said that about No Way Home but Strange and Spidey are my favorites and I've been imagining all the things that could happen in this one. It feels like I've been waiting for this movie FOREVER. I can't wait to see where this leads. Just a few minutes till it starts. Will report back spoiler free.
It’s good. But don’t be too hyped. It’s not nearly those levels. Don’t want you to be disappointed.
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In the theater now :caffeine:
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Caught my 3:10pm showing earlier today, been home for roughly 3.5-4.0 hours now and I'm still processing a lot of the film. There's so many little easter eggs and nuggets of things I loved, and the breakneck pace really kept my attention and had me pretty much the whole time. I can't say it's my all-time favorite, but the direction by Raimi and the absolutely stellar score by Elfman really helped put the film together in a way that seemed perfect for what it was. A solid 9/10 for me, definitely in the upper echelon of MCU films, but this comes from a die-hard MCU fan and a fan of Marvel Comics in general, so I could be a little biased.
I think if you are dialed in to much of the MCU and know a lot about it, you might find a lot to like about this film, but if you're fairly casual and don't often watch/rewatch the films/shows, you might find yourself a little lost at times. The film doesn't fully rely on prior knowledge, but rewards fans who have invested time in things like WandaVision and paying close attention to Strange's prior appearances in the MCU.
The mid-credits scene did confuse me, admittedly, but after a bit of Googling, I am surprised at what they've introduced with that scene, and it excites me for what's to come for Doctor Strange.
-Marc.
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I hate this stupid Internet culture where everyone feels it is their duty to be first to break the scoop. Already, there are tons of spoilers out there in the most seemingly-innocuous places. Luckily, I haven't seen anything spoilery--yet--but have come close. Sucks that I have to actively avoid the Internet just to keep having a movie that isn't even out yet spoiled until I can see it later this weekend.
Shit bitch, I'm not gonna be able to see it until Wednesday or Thursday next week (between COVID and jingle.son's work schedule, we just ain't makin it out). Maybe not even until NEXT Sunday. Guess I won't be going on YT or Facebook for a week.
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I'll FaceTime with you at the theater Chad. :lol
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Just got home.
And I can confirm that Benedict Cumberbatch IS in the movie. But I won't tell you who he's playing.
All in all it was....very good. Not great. Top half of MCU, but not top 3rd I don't think. It's a real shame cause it COULD have been good if they just focused a little more on the emotional journey. It was just so fast thing to thing that even when REALLY cool things happened, it was hard to have much of an emotional connection of any sort cause of just how fast it all went down. Wanda was fantastic and really the only character to get a proper arc. I will type more when we can discuss spoilers. But yea, very good, fantastic stuff in a lot of ways, but also let down and disappointing in other ways.
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Between credit scenes now... Man that was a fun time. Just breakneck speed.
Not sure where it'll rank for me, but definitely in the top 3rd.
Wanda was definitely the star though, no doubt about it.
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There are some things about Wanda that I can nitpick about but man WHAT A FILM. It exceeded my expectations. So many "WTF" moments in all the best ways. My theater went crazy at several big reveals or references or jokes. I'm going back to see this a couple more times. That was fun from start to finish. So cool to see them still pulling off surprises and new things.
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Yes/no answers only…no spoilers.
Is the breaking down of the timeline at the end of the Loki TV series directly relevant to this movie?
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Just got home.
And I can confirm that Benedict Cumberbatch IS in the movie. But I won't tell you who he's playing.
Sherlock?
Quick question, without giving spoilers. How important is it to have watched the Marvel Shows before seeing this movie? Gotta friend whose watched most of the Movies but none of the shows, and he's worried he'll be missing out.
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Just got home.
And I can confirm that Benedict Cumberbatch IS in the movie. But I won't tell you who he's playing.
Sherlock?
Quick question, without giving spoilers. How important is it to have watched the Marvel Shows before seeing this movie? Gotta friend whose watched most of the Movies but none of the shows, and he's worried he'll be missing out.
Wandavision is necessary, that's about it.
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Yes/no answers only…no spoilers.
Is the breaking down of the timeline at the end of the Loki TV series directly relevant to this movie?
Not really, no.
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Looking back at it, other than wanting the movie to slow down and develop the character arcs better, I think there's two major elements that have left me disappointed. Once we start discussing spoilers, I can go into it, but yea....I think those things are bugging me a bit. Maybe it would be better on the 2nd time around, since I will know it's happening first.
Though I will say, it had the best 5 second musical cue ever.
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Looking back at it, other than wanting the movie to slow down and develop the character arcs better, I think there's two major elements that have left me disappointed. Once we start discussing spoilers, I can go into it, but yea....I think those things are bugging me a bit. Maybe it would be better on the 2nd time around, since I will know it's happening first.
Though I will say, it had the best 5 second musical cue ever.
I think I know the exact musical cue...
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Looking back at it, other than wanting the movie to slow down and develop the character arcs better, I think there's two major elements that have left me disappointed. Once we start discussing spoilers, I can go into it, but yea....I think those things are bugging me a bit. Maybe it would be better on the 2nd time around, since I will know it's happening first.
Though I will say, it had the best 5 second musical cue ever.
I think I know the exact musical cue...
The one in the 2nd act? Oh yes, that one had me super excited. Elfman really knew what he was doing with the score! The musical cue/reference near the beginning was really nice as well!
-Marc.
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Lizzie’s been on the talk show circuit promoting the movie. Those eyes and that smile . . . bangin. Glad she’s getting so many rave reviews.
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I thought the movie was fine, but there were a few things that bugged me. I'll wait until we can talk about it freely.
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Just got home.
And I can confirm that Benedict Cumberbatch IS in the movie. But I won't tell you who he's playing.
Sherlock?
Quick question, without giving spoilers. How important is it to have watched the Marvel Shows before seeing this movie? Gotta friend whose watched most of the Movies but none of the shows, and he's worried he'll be missing out.
Wandavision is necessary, that's about it.
That covers it. Loki is not needed but I would call WandaVision required. Can't really see how it would make sense to anybody without the context of that show.
Loved the film. I just love the whole tone of sarcasm that goes along with it. Just makes me really enjoy the characters.
I saw that Benedict Wong was having to shut down 'fans' who are dumping all over the actress who plays America. Don't really get it, I thought she was fantastic in the role.
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Spoilers, piggybacking off the recent posts:
I don't really have many gripes with this movie but that could be newness bias and favorite bias as I love Dr. Strange. However.. I think they beat the horse into the ground with respect to Wanda's motivation. We get it. Kids. Motherhood. That's my biggest complaint. I felt like Wanda should be a multi film level threat and she felt very one dimensional here and that's not good considering how more complex she felt to me in WandaVision.
I thought the way she basically defeated herself was predictable and forced and maybe it's just me but every scene with her and the children was awkward. I know that's probably the point - her children are like mindless, subservient lapdogs who only exist to feed Wanda's need to have some kind of purpose - but it was even more uncomfortable the second time around for me.
I loved everything else about the film. Wanda had some great moments when she was killing people and being brutally clever, but the motivation just didn't feel as believable considering the gravity of what's going down in this film.
I hope Strange returns in his own movie sooner than 2028. Really excited for what that post credits implies. I've never heard of this character because Spiderman is the only character whose comics I've read.
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(https://i.imgur.com/lSBeHUg_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
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(https://i.imgur.com/lSBeHUg_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
That I told to my brother.
He reminded me is the same for Loki, as he has even a croc as himself in another universe
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I think Loki, the series, did a good job of showing us that variants can look the same but also look vastly different, so when things like NWH and ITMOM come around, we aren't confused as to why variant Peter Parkers look different but variant Stranges don't.
What If also kind of handled this as well, and I think if we see any variants in the future, they'll have the freedom to do whatever they want - bring back the original actor (Chris Evans' Steve Rogers, RDJ's Tony Stark), or recast with a new actor.
-Marc.
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Just got back. Really enjoyed that. More than No Way Home, actually.
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Well, this continues the phase 4 trend of great D+ shows (mostly) and really, really underwhelming, disappointing films. I think I'll just mentally wrap it in a bow at the end of phase 3 and let the MCU die to me. So much wasted potential.
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I thought this movie was pretty disappointing overall. I loved Wanda/Vision and this really was the sequel that we maybe didn't need? I'm not sure what people who haven't seen Wanda/Vision would really get out of this movie. The cameos were also very underwhelming and just pointless in the scheme of things.
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Well, this continues the phase 4 trend of great D+ shows (mostly) and really, really underwhelming, disappointing films. I think I'll just mentally wrap it in a bow at the end of phase 3 and let the MCU die to me. So much wasted potential.
Damn. I haven't seen What If or Moon Knight yet but I've loved the shows (except Hawkeye) and the only film I haven't liked is Eternals. And Black Widow if that's phase 4. What do you think it is that you dislike about the new phase?
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Well, this continues the phase 4 trend of great D+ shows (mostly) and really, really underwhelming, disappointing films. I think I'll just mentally wrap it in a bow at the end of phase 3 and let the MCU die to me. So much wasted potential.
Damn. I haven't seen What If or Moon Knight yet but I've loved the shows (except Hawkeye) and the only film I haven't liked is Eternals. And Black Widow if that's phase 4. What do you think it is that you dislike about the new phase?
In some cases, it is individual things about certain films. But I can definitely make some generalizations about the entire phase:
1. The multiverse is a really stupid concept and I hate it. It is too much of a license to do whatever they want to do, to ignore inconsistencies, and it is a dumb excuse to pull in weaker franchises and "pollute"/"dilute" an otherwise stellar franchise through 23 films. That said, I won't give them too much flak for this because it is a conscious writing decision rather than just accidental poor writing, and if that's the direction they want to go, so be it. But I mention it because you asked what I don't like, specifically.
2. The "third act problem" seems much more glaring in phase 4 than any other sustained period in the MCU. Even when you had massive CGI-fests in the finale of earlier films, they felt like they had much more of a point that had a connection to the themes and emotional appeals of the films. The final battle in Age of Ultron, for example, was a logical conclusion to the film, and the film had built up to that moment, thematically, emotionally, and logically. To contrast that with Shang Chi, for example, that film was about family and about finding oneself and one's place in family and in the world at large. The final confrontation between Shang Chi and Xu Wenwu should have been the focal point. But instead, that got diluted and way overshadowed by a fight with 2 giant CGI dragons, which was thematically, tonally, and emotionally dissonant from what the film had been focused on up to that point. And it's a real shame, because that film could have and should have been awesome. But once they got to Ta Lo, once I got past how visually stunning everything was, I just found myself not caring much what happened. Because there was no reason to. Too much of phase 4 falls into the same trap, albeit maybe not quite as badly as Shang Chi (with the exception of Eternals, which missed the mark even farther).
3. Bad writing. There are way too many times when things happen "just because" or a character does something that is completely out of character or lacks sufficient motivation (think Anakin's instantaneous turn and willingness to go kill kids in Revenge of the Sith). Or plot points that just don't belong in Marvel films. Once we can post spoilers about this film, there is a LOT I can write in that regard. And there is one character moment in particular that drove me bananas because there is NO WAY that character makes that decision.
4. Phase 4 has The Eternals, which is one of the worst "superhero" films of all time, and is not worthy of the Marvel name.
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Gonna agree with most of what Bosk said. Don't agree with his take on the multiverse, but it's also one of those things that is never utilized amazingly well. Marvel has done a great job in some ways but missed opportunities in others. Also will disagree on how bad Eternals is :lol but other than that we seem to be on the same page.
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4. Phase 4 has The Eternals, which is one of the worst "superhero" films of all time, and is not worthy of the Marvel name.
Nah. I mean it's one, if not the worst MCU film, but.....Catwomen, Steel, Elektra, Superman IV, Supergirl, Batman & Robin, Spawn, Fantastic 4 (the recent one), Dark Phoenix, Blade : Trinity, Ghost Ryder 1 & 2, Green Lantern are all legitimately terrible films. Eternals is meh, like the Snyder DCU films, Daredevil, X-Men : Last Stand & Apocalypse, Amazing Spider-Man 2 etc...
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Just realized Marvel released Multiverse Of Madness on Mothers Day weekend. Maybe that’s why it’s called MoM after all.
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Just realized Marvel released Multiverse Of Madness on Mothers Day weekend. Maybe that’s why it’s called MoM after all.
And the central theme is motherhood.
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Just realized Marvel released Multiverse Of Madness on Mothers Day weekend. Maybe that’s why it’s called MoM after all.
And the central theme is motherhood.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0xeJpnrWC4XWblEk/giphy-downsized-large.gif)
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Just realized Marvel released Multiverse Of Madness on Mothers Day weekend. Maybe that’s why it’s called MoM after all.
And the central theme is motherhood.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0xeJpnrWC4XWblEk/giphy-downsized-large.gif)
:rollin
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Well, this continues the phase 4 trend of great D+ shows (mostly) and really, really underwhelming, disappointing films. I think I'll just mentally wrap it in a bow at the end of phase 3 and let the MCU die to me. So much wasted potential.
Damn. I haven't seen What If or Moon Knight yet but I've loved the shows (except Hawkeye) and the only film I haven't liked is Eternals. And Black Widow if that's phase 4. What do you think it is that you dislike about the new phase?
In some cases, it is individual things about certain films. But I can definitely make some generalizations about the entire phase:
1. The multiverse is a really stupid concept and I hate it. It is too much of a license to do whatever they want to do, to ignore inconsistencies, and it is a dumb excuse to pull in weaker franchises and "pollute"/"dilute" an otherwise stellar franchise through 23 films. That said, I won't give them too much flak for this because it is a conscious writing decision rather than just accidental poor writing, and if that's the direction they want to go, so be it. But I mention it because you asked what I don't like, specifically.
2. The "third act problem" seems much more glaring in phase 4 than any other sustained period in the MCU. Even when you had massive CGI-fests in the finale of earlier films, they felt like they had much more of a point that had a connection to the themes and emotional appeals of the films. The final battle in Age of Ultron, for example, was a logical conclusion to the film, and the film had built up to that moment, thematically, emotionally, and logically. To contrast that with Shang Chi, for example, that film was about family and about finding oneself and one's place in family and in the world at large. The final confrontation between Shang Chi and Xu Wenwu should have been the focal point. But instead, that got diluted and way overshadowed by a fight with 2 giant CGI dragons, which was thematically, tonally, and emotionally dissonant from what the film had been focused on up to that point. And it's a real shame, because that film could have and should have been awesome. But once they got to Ta Lo, once I got past how visually stunning everything was, I just found myself not caring much what happened. Because there was no reason to. Too much of phase 4 falls into the same trap, albeit maybe not quite as badly as Shang Chi (with the exception of Eternals, which missed the mark even farther).
3. Bad writing. There are way too many times when things happen "just because" or a character does something that is completely out of character or lacks sufficient motivation (think Anakin's instantaneous turn and willingness to go kill kids in Revenge of the Sith). Or plot points that just don't belong in Marvel films. Once we can post spoilers about this film, there is a LOT I can write in that regard. And there is one character moment in particular that drove me bananas because there is NO WAY that character makes that decision.
4. Phase 4 has The Eternals, which is one of the worst "superhero" films of all time, and is not worthy of the Marvel name.
Swing and a miss! This is a bad take good sir!
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So I think I'm willing to largely give Marvel a squinting pass (that's where I give them a pass but squint at them the whole time) for this because of COVID. I know this movie was supposed to come out before Spider-Man and also had a ton of re-shoots and stuff changed around and removed last minute. I can only imagine that if they did this movie as they had initially planned, it might have been better. Hopefully future movies won't have this same problem to this degree. I don't think Thor or Black Panther 2 had to have their core stories altered due to COVID (obviously Black Panther did for other reasons, so I'll be lenient with that one too).
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Adami, I think it's more of fans reaching a climax of Endgame. Fans were on such a euphoric high, that nothing compares to the ending of the 1st run. (4th phase)
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Adami, I think it's more of fans reaching a climax of Endgame. Fans were on such a euphoric high, that nothing compares to the ending of the 1st run. (4th phase)
No it’s just not a very good script. It has SUCH great moments but just fell apart. I’m a comics guy. I don’t need this to be the height of Endgame. I just need a well constructed story and well written script which this was CLOSE to having but just didnt get.
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There were some like that as well in the 1st run. People rated them higher than they should have.
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There were some like that as well in the 1st run. People rated them higher than they should have.
I don’t. I’d definitely put this movie above things like Iron Man 2, Thor 2, Captain Marvel, Hulk, etc. others too. I just think mistakes at the beginning and the same mistakes 13 years later can’t be seen the same. You know? You expect them to learn and improve. Which they largely have. The last few, not counting Spider Man have just been a step backwards. Hopefully they correct that.
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Cool. Thanks for the detailed response, bosk. I understand totally why you take issue with those things. I agree with a lot of it too although I just happen to enjoy the phase 4 films personally. I agree Eternals stinks. Bottom tier Marvel film for me, right there with the first two Thors and a few others.
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Adami, I think it's more of fans reaching a climax of Endgame. Fans were on such a euphoric high, that nothing compares to the ending of the 1st run. (4th phase)
That's an excellent point... We expect that level from them cause shit they've done it already, without having the patience to let them spend another 20 movies to build to said climax. We're forgetting on the way to Endgame we had to sit through Thor 2,Iron man 2&3,Hulk etc.
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Adami, I think it's more of fans reaching a climax of Endgame. Fans were on such a euphoric high, that nothing compares to the ending of the 1st run. (4th phase)
That's an excellent point... We expect that level from them cause shit they've done it already, without having the patience to let them spend another 20 movies to build to said climax. We're forgetting on the way to Endgame we had to sit through Thor 2,Iron man 2&3,Hulk etc.
Agree completely. Possibly nothing they ever do again will end up like Infinity War and Endgame.
When the MCU is knocking it out of the park, they marry genuinely moving emotion with crazy comic book fantasy but it's the former that separates a fun film from a great film.
I like Stephen Strange well enough as a character, for example, but I've not got much emotional investment in him. Not like I do with Thor/Stark/Quill/Romanov/Banner, etc. The thing they need to do from here on is generate that emotional attachment to their current characters, and that's going to take a while.
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Adami, I think it's more of fans reaching a climax of Endgame. Fans were on such a euphoric high, that nothing compares to the ending of the 1st run. (4th phase)
That's an excellent point... We expect that level from them cause shit they've done it already, without having the patience to let them spend another 20 movies to build to said climax. We're forgetting on the way to Endgame we had to sit through Thor 2,Iron man 2&3,Hulk etc.
Agree completely. Possibly nothing they ever do again will end up like Infinity War and Endgame.
When the MCU is knocking it out of the park, they marry genuinely moving emotion with crazy comic book fantasy but it's the former that separates a fun film from a great film.
I like Stephen Strange well enough as a character, for example, but I've not got much emotional investment in him. Not like I do with Thor/Stark/Quill/Romanov/Banner, etc. The thing they need to do from here on is generate that emotional attachment to their current characters, and that's going to take a while.
This bolded part is what pisses me off SO MUCH about assholes like Jamie Lee Curtis coming out and shitting on Marvel. Did she watch the movie? Lizzie Olsen can act that bitch right off the stage anytime. JLC, your most famous movies are from a slasher genre. Give me a break. I guarantee that almost all of the washed up actors in Hollywood dissing Marvel have never watched an entire movie of it. Jennifer Aniston a few years came out with some lame critiques and she's made forgettable trash almost exclusively. Pure jealousy plain and simple.
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I have no idea what JLC said about Dr. Strange, and I don't care. People can have whatever opinions they have. They don't need to be better than other people to have them.
That said, her recent multiverse movie was considerably better. Not that it was due to her, of course.
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I anticipated the "expectations" thing after Endgame. I took a bit of a break after that movie came out and I watched it several times. I got back into it last year when the shows started and I've been approaching phase 4 with a new excitement for letting new stories be built and not going from 0 to 60 with another overarching story. I do like that they have jumped full bore into the multiverse, but haven't actually established the next big threat yet. I'm really excited to see what the next group of Avengers looks like if they go that way since the HQ was annihilated with like half of the east coast in Endgame. Is Avengers Tower still up? What's the aftermath of Stark Industries? Etc...
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Adami, I think it's more of fans reaching a climax of Endgame. Fans were on such a euphoric high, that nothing compares to the ending of the 1st run. (4th phase)
That's an excellent point... We expect that level from them cause shit they've done it already, without having the patience to let them spend another 20 movies to build to said climax. We're forgetting on the way to Endgame we had to sit through Thor 2,Iron man 2&3,Hulk etc.
Agree completely. Possibly nothing they ever do again will end up like Infinity War and Endgame.
When the MCU is knocking it out of the park, they marry genuinely moving emotion with crazy comic book fantasy but it's the former that separates a fun film from a great film.
I like Stephen Strange well enough as a character, for example, but I've not got much emotional investment in him. Not like I do with Thor/Stark/Quill/Romanov/Banner, etc. The thing they need to do from here on is generate that emotional attachment to their current characters, and that's going to take a while.
They did such a good job of that in Wandavision, in creating probably the most complex MCU character by that show's end. My biggest gripe with MoM is how one note they made Wanda following what they did with her character in the show. I mean, a lot of that is the influence of the Dark hold, but still...
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I think the main thing is that now she's dealing with the loss of her CHILDREN on top of everything else she had dealt with (they were real to her).
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I think the main thing is that now she's dealing with the loss of her CHILDREN on top of everything else she had dealt with (they were real to her).
Indeed. And it makes sense on paper. But ALL of that development took place off screen. And that’s not good writing.
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WandaVision showed most of the development.
(Edited for poss spoiler removal)
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WandaVision showed most of the development, just not the turn to bad. I really liked it as a twist. I was not expecting her to be the baddie at all so I was chuffed with it.
Spoiler small text
Wandavision did show a lot of development, however development that was largely antithetical to this. At the end of WV she is shown as deeply remorseful and just wanting to do right. Skip to this and she is perfectly happy to murder literally...ANYONE...to get back to her kids and because the Darkhold corrupted her. But again, THAT development completely happened offscreen. As far as we saw, she went from a deeply remorseful good person who made mistakes to a person with no qualms murdering anyone at all and then wanting to rule all of the existence. Not good writing, sadly. If it didn't bug you, that's good. It did bug me, but oddly enough, not the most from this movie.
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Yeah, I can see how that could bug.
I went in with medium expectations and the movie exceeded them, alongside the general vibe and pace. Was more playful than I expected.
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WandaVision showed most of the development, just not the turn to bad. I really liked it as a twist. I was not expecting her to be the baddie at all so I was chuffed with it.
Spoiler small text
Wandavision did show a lot of development, however development that was largely antithetical to this. At the end of WV she is shown as deeply remorseful and just wanting to do right. Skip to this and she is perfectly happy to murder literally...ANYONE...to get back to her kids and because the Darkhold corrupted her. But again, THAT development completely happened offscreen. As far as we saw, she went from a deeply remorseful good person who made mistakes to a person with no qualms murdering anyone at all and then wanting to rule all of the existence. Not good writing, sadly. If it didn't bug you, that's good. It did bug me, but oddly enough, not the most from this movie.
Look…I was as shocked as anyone to discover that AOS is not technically “canon” (when it was still being made…they had the episodes spaced out on the official MCU timeline…that means it was considered canon at one time) but I think AOS was important in establishing the backstory of The Darkhold and what it does to anyone who comes into contact with it. With that back story, her moral shift wasn’t really anything strange at all. In fact, through that lens, I was expecting it from the moment WV ended. No matter how she was behaving at the end, you KNEW that this was going no place good. The Darkhold always corrupts. It’s like “the ring of power”…it’s influence in unavoidable.
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Completely agree JD. But they still did it all off screen. I’m just not okay with that.
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I agree with Adami, and that is one of the things that bugged me in the movie. Not because it was all off screen (we got a hint at the end of Wandavision), but because that was established so early in the movie with no warning. They could've extended the wedding scene a little more, show his struggle with the same dreams (Which I guess it cannot be the same every night?), or even given Wanda a bit of time to establish her motives, but all of that happened in the first 20 minutes of the movie, or so. I guess that's in part due to how short the movie is, in comparison to other marvel films.
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Why am I blanking on "AOS"? Afraid of Sunlight? What does Marillion have to do with this? :) :) :)
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Why am I blanking on "AOS"? Afraid of Sunlight? What does Marillion have to do with this? :) :) :)
Agents of Shield
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Since Marvel schedules things so far out in advance (into 2025 already for movies right?), I think the only way to bring Wanda back is for a season 2 of WandaVision (maybe it's about her being reunited with White Vision). Here's hoping! She's the hottest thing in the MCU right now, would be a shame to kick her to the curb.
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She'll be back... I'm thinking a powered down version from another universe.
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She'll be back... I'm thinking a powered down version from another universe.
I sure hope not. At least that last part. I don't want the multiverse used to just replace people whenever. It takes away meaning and depth if you can just grab another variant and move right along.
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She'll be back... I'm thinking a powered down version from another universe.
I sure hope not. At least that last part. I don't want the multiverse used to just replace people whenever. It takes away meaning and depth if you can just grab another variant and move right along.
Haven't the comics been doing shit like that forever? How many times has basically everyone died, only to be ressurected in some fashion? They're as bad as soap operas.
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She'll be back... I'm thinking a powered down version from another universe.
I sure hope not. At least that last part. I don't want the multiverse used to just replace people whenever. It takes away meaning and depth if you can just grab another variant and move right along.
Haven't the comics been doing shit like that forever? How many times has basically everyone died, only to be ressurected in some fashion? They're as bad as soap operas.
Totally. But different mediums. We're not getting 20 movies a month for 60 years, you know? Can't treat them the same way and expect the same results.
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She'll be back... I'm thinking a powered down version from another universe.
I sure hope not. At least that last part. I don't want the multiverse used to just replace people whenever. It takes away meaning and depth if you can just grab another variant and move right along.
Haven't the comics been doing shit like that forever? How many times has basically everyone died, only to be ressurected in some fashion? They're as bad as soap operas.
That's one way in which the movies are better than the comics: the characters can change, age, and retire/die without an inevitable reboot.
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One week since the premiere I guess it is now OK, to discuss spoilers.
IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED THE MOVIE YET, BE AWARE THAT DISCUSSION HERE MIGHT WELL INCLUDE SPOILERS
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OKAY...so...
I've gone onto YouTube and rewatched clips of Wanda's Illuminati take-down, and watched Black Bolt's scene at 0.25%, and HOLY CRAP is it more brutal than I first thought. Not only can you see the blast of his voice shine through his covered mouth, you can see the initial ejection of blood/fluids through his nose as his eyes glaze over with blood and almost explode out of his face, just as the blast ricochets to the back of his head. As it collapses, you can see blood come out of his nose and cover his eyes just before he falls over, with brain matter oozing down the inside of his mask.
IT...IS...GOREY, without all the explicit blood, and only if you watch it in slow motion, but I did NOT expect it to be as detailed as it is, especially watching a crappy YouTube video. I cannot wait to watch it in glorious HD whenever the BD comes out in a few months.
-Marc.
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Ew! :lol
I thought America Chavez was great. I've heard of her but it was my first exposure to the character. She totally fit in with no awkwardness at all. And I loved the star shaped portals. Such a childlike and nerdy comic-book device that they completely pulled off without it seeming out of place.
What else...
The cycloctopus monster was beautiful. And then them pulling it's eyeball out was such great gross-out laughs.
The battling music scene between the Stranges was like Fantasia or something.
The visual treats in the movie generally were amazing. It has something of the big fight scene from GOTG2 or Spider Verse about it - but longer. The part where they fell through tons of universes really quickly, especially.
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Pure Marvel, pure Raimi, pure awesome. Best MCU film of phase 4 and probably in contention for top 5. Loved it.
Don't really get the complaints about Wonda's heel turn it's obvious her grief and trauma were corrupted by the Darkhold.
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Pure Marvel, pure Raimi, pure awesome. Best MCU film of phase 4 and probably in contention for top 5. Loved it.
Don't really get the complaints about Wonda's heel turn it's obvious her grief and trauma were corrupted by the Darkhold.
It wasn't her heel turn that slightly irked me... It was her constant repetition of it... Kind of reminds me of "I'm the immortal iron fist...."...
We get it Wanda... It's about the kids...
Keep in mind, I loved the movie, but after it I watched the last few episodes of Wandavision and felt like they sold her character short. d
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Overall I like the movie. It wasn't top tier MCU or anything, but it as good. I enjoyed the horror aspects of it as something new for the MCU. I agree with most of the criticisms you all have offered, but don't think they diminished the overall movie all that much.
The Illuminati were great. John Krazsinsky was a great nod to fans calling for him in that role. I hope they don't actually reboot Fantastic 4 with him though. Patrick Stewart finally looks like he's aged!
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Pure Marvel, pure Raimi, pure awesome. Best MCU film of phase 4 and probably in contention for top 5. Loved it.
Don't really get the complaints about Wonda's heel turn it's obvious her grief and trauma were corrupted by the Darkhold.
It wasn't her heel turn that slightly irked me... It was her constant repetition of it... Kind of reminds me of "I'm the immortal iron fist...."...
We get it Wanda... It's about the kids...
Keep in mind, I loved the movie, but after it I watched the last few episodes of Wandavision and felt like they sold her character short. d
Yeah I've seen similar critiques on other review sites. One guy even said they "did her dirty" by removing some of the nuances of her character. Lizzie still crushed it though.
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Pure Marvel, pure Raimi, pure awesome. Best MCU film of phase 4 and probably in contention for top 5. Loved it.
Don't really get the complaints about Wonda's heel turn it's obvious her grief and trauma were corrupted by the Darkhold.
It wasn't her heel turn that slightly irked me... It was her constant repetition of it... Kind of reminds me of "I'm the immortal iron fist...."...
We get it Wanda... It's about the kids...
Keep in mind, I loved the movie, but after it I watched the last few episodes of Wandavision and felt like they sold her character short. d
Yeah I've seen similar critiques on other review sites. One guy even said they "did her dirty" by removing some of the nuances of her character. Lizzie still crushed it though.
Oh without a doubt... Definitely the best performer in the MCU in my mind.
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Pure Marvel, pure Raimi, pure awesome. Best MCU film of phase 4 and probably in contention for top 5. Loved it.
Don't really get the complaints about Wonda's heel turn it's obvious her grief and trauma were corrupted by the Darkhold.
It wasn't her heel turn that slightly irked me... It was her constant repetition of it... Kind of reminds me of "I'm the immortal iron fist...."...
We get it Wanda... It's about the kids...
Keep in mind, I loved the movie, but after it I watched the last few episodes of Wandavision and felt like they sold her character short. d
Exactly this
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Did everyone miss the post credit scene in the Wandavision finale? She was already using the Darkhold and searching other universes for her children. She was corrupted way before MoM. Unless they say the movie takes place a few days later, but that's still time for an evil book to warp her mind.
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Did everyone miss the post credit scene in the Wandavision finale? She was already using the Darkhold and searching other universes for her children. She was corrupted way before MoM. Unless they say the movie takes place a few days later, but that's still time for an evil book to warp her mind.
I agree with this. I don't think they needed to show her slowly being corrupted. Maybe a mention of the amount of time she'd been using the Darkhold would have been helpful. I didn't have as big of a problem with her seemingly abrupt slide into evil as most seem to have.
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As I mentioned in one of my posts, is not because it was all off screen (we got a hint at the end of Wandavision), but because that was established so early in the movie with no warning. They could've extended the wedding scene a little more, show his struggle with the same dreams (Which I guess it cannot be the same every night?), or even given Wanda a bit of time to establish her motives, but all of that happened in the first 20 minutes of the movie, or so. I guess that's in part due to how short the movie is, in comparison to other marvel films.
I liked the movie, just had some issues here and there (for me).
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The biggest disappointment for me was the lack of more cameos. My expectations were a little too high. The ones we got were great, and I understand it can't be Fan Service the Movie, but I feel they didn't use the multiverse as much as they should have. I was really hoping for a Deadpool cameo, but I guess Ryan Reynolds was actually telling the truth when he said he wasn't in it.
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The bulk of WandaVision takes place only 3-4 weeks after Endgame, around October/November of 2023. Doctor Strange ITMOM takes place at least after Christmas 2024, so almost 13-14 months after WandaVision. That's plenty of time for Wanda to become fully corrupted by the Darkhold, I'd think.
-Marc.
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If that time between the show and the film is true then yes it makes sense but that is never communicated at all in the film, so unless you already know that trivia it very much feels like Wanda is going from 0 to 60 even if the show showed 5 seconds of her with the Darkhold at the end of the show. Just my two cents. Having the logic is one thing, but you need to communicate that to the audience in the presentation.
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Just to clarify, and this will be my last time doing so, it's not that Wanda's turn made no sense. I didn't say "WHAT?!? HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?!?!"
Her heel turn is perfectly logical and I knew it was coming, but it was still handled very poorly. They spent multiple movies building her as a hero. And I mean building her as one, since she did not start off as one. Multiple movies cementing a character on a journey that would, we assume, eventually go dark. But they skipped to the end. They missed a few chapters of that story and jumped to her not only being a villain, but then killing her off (I know, I know, she's probably not dead, but the story beat included her dying, so I'm counting it here). It was poorly executed, that's my complaint. It made it difficult for me (and apparently a lot of other people) to have much of an emotional investment in her arc in this movie. But again, that's not the biggest issue. Here are my main issues.
1) Dr. Strange has almost no arc, and almost no active role in this story. He's just kind of having things happen to him or around him or he's responding to things. I didn't walk away from this movie knowing more about him than I did before it began. The movie could've had Wong doing all of it and it wouldn't have made any difference since the CHARACTER of Strange isn't necessary to what happens other than it happening to have him in the beginning. They started the movie with some real potential with him. The idea of if he's happy is good. And it bookended on that as well, but there was nothing in the middle really touching it other than that one scene of his memory, which didn't really impact anything. It had potential, but was just dropped. Also the idea of "Couldn't you have made another play with Thanos?" Is a really cool idea to get inside his head, but they just very quickly dropped it. There were elements of potential Strange story arcs that were sprinkled (or jimmied) in, but none of them were developed at all. So I didn't really end up connecting with the titular hero.
2) The Illuminati scene. I walked in, like I assume many other people, kind of waiting for that scene to happen. We knew Captain Carter would be there, and Professor X and some firey flying thing, and then there's a ton of rumors. I knew Tom Cruise wasn't in it and I didn't expect him. I was LEGIT shocked (in a good way) when we saw Anson Mount as Black Bolt, as despite hating the show, I love that actor as that character, and loved that he got a second go at it. I was (less) shocked to see Reed Richards. And seeing the other Captain Marvel was very very cool. But they handled it the exact way I was scared they'd handle it in Spider-Man. Show up to get some applause and nothing else. They added NOTHING to the story at all but to get applause. They came, talked a little (one of them even less so) and then pretty quickly died. We didn't need to see that to know how powerful Wanda was as we already knew. It just made them all seem really dumb. Especially Reed Richards, the smartest man in the world. So you ended up with some VERY exciting cameos being reduced to meaningless applause moments and then quickly killing them off. You could literally remove the entire Illuminati scene and the movie would be no different what so ever. That's not a good sign. I didn't have a single emotional reaction with Black Bolt died, or Reed Richards, or Captain Marvel, or whomever. It just felt empty, and that is such a god damn shame.
3) What happened to all the MADNESS?!?! It's in the title. In the end, we get a 20-30 second shot of some legit multiversal madness. Then we get a lot of time on an earth I'd rather the MCU takes place on (where they have Avengers, Inhumans, and X-Men) and a few minutes on a dying world. That was it, right? Did I forget the madness? It was just so tame. As cool as it would have been, I didn't need 50 more cameos from Logan, and Deadpool, and Superman, and Willy Wonka or whatever.
4) The story just didn't take enough time to have any emotional impact. A lot of stuff happened that I'm supposed to care about. Strange having an existential crisis? Meh, barely in there, barely enough to notice or care about. America, while a VERY cool performance by a fantastic actress that I am excited to see more of, had little emotional impact because we spent maybe 20 seconds on her experiences. Wong? Just there. Dozens, if not more, scorerers are murdered? Move right along to the next scene. The entire Wanda arc as well. Lizzie did a god damn wonderful job with it. Bravo! But it was just so damn fast and empty that I never really connected.
And I say all of this, knowing it's my own experiences and not necessarily anyone elses, but after watching and reading a lot of other reviews, I am clearly not alone. This got one of Marvel's lowest cinema scores in history and it should have EASILY been a A or an A+.
I don't fully blame the writer/Marvel for this, cause I know COVID changed so much about this movie from conception to completion, that it might have been impossible to save.
That said, I still rank this movie in the top half of Marvel, and I had a REALLY good time watching most of it.
1) The acting is great, and I love the personality that Raimi was able to put in the movie as a director.
2) The movie is FILLED with absolutely brilliant scenes that I just wish were part of an overall better movie. The multiverse fall? Amazing. The Illuminati planet? Noice. The music fight? BRILLIANT! A cape made of demon ghost things? Genius. And even more I can't recall off the top of my head.
3) I loved America Chavez. I would love to spend more time with that character and give her some time to shine.
So yea, movie was filled with brilliant ideas and hints at a brilliant movie, but somehow, somewhere, it all got lost and we ended up with a big mess. Lots of cool and virtually no substance. I don't want Marvel to be like Transformers where it's just a ton of cool visuals and who cares what else. I have, and want to continue to care about what is happening and to whom it is happening.
That's all.
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Good sensible write up Adami. We very rarely agree on anything, but I always enjoy reading your takes.
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If that still ranked in your top half of MCU movies, I'd hate to see your brutal reviews of the lower ones. 😂
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If that time between the show and the film is true then yes it makes sense but that is never communicated at all in the film, so unless you already know that trivia it very much feels like Wanda is going from 0 to 60 even if the show showed 5 seconds of her with the Darkhold at the end of the show. Just my two cents. Having the logic is one thing, but you need to communicate that to the audience in the presentation.
This has been an "issue" with phase 4 so far - after Endgame and Far From Home, no films or shows have given concrete dates or time-periods, and fans have just tried to figure things out with context clues, creator and cast interviews, and just relative time between stories. I think we only "know" WandaVision is a few weeks after Endgame is because the show featured Halloween, and Endgame was around fall of 2023. Following that, we also know that Far From Home is early summer of 2024 because they are going on summer vacation after the school year ends (so around June 2024). As for other shows like The Falcon And The Winter Soldier, some clues in that show pointed it to spring 2024, around March or April. Eternals also takes place post-Endgame due to the inclusion of the GRC (Global Repatriation Council), first seen in TFATWS. Likewise, both Hawkeye and No Way Home take place during the Christmastime of 2024, and until Doctor Strange 2, was the furtherest we've gotten into the MCU timeline, although the placement of Moon Knight is still up in the air (though it is definitely post-Endgame, due to another GRC spot on a London bus). Black Widow is a prequel to Infinity War/sequel to Civil War, and Shang-Chi's placement in the timeline is also a bit muddled.
I think going forward, they're going to keep solid dates and time periods vague just so they can retcon the placement of things if they need to. So far, only relative time periods have been given, mostly based on seasons or holidays, but we've got a year and a half of events that are all just kind of floating about right now (Endgame in Sept/Oct 2023, up to MOM in early 2025).
-Marc.
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If that still ranked in your top half of MCU movies, I'd hate to see your brutal reviews of the lower ones. 😂
I think I felt more strongly because it had so much potential. And I have no idea if the movie is actually in my top half, since I hate doing rankings, but it didn't feel wrong to say it, so it might not be exact but it's close.
The lower movies? They just made me feel....little. Like they didn't have the potential to live up to in the first place. But keep in mind, I really like all of the MCU movies. Even Hulk. So there are no MCU movies that I hate or strongly dislike. Eternals comes close to having little feeling for though.
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Just saw it a second time, and it was pretty good.
Re: one of the continuity/timeline slip ups: Didn’t I hear that this movie was supposed to come out before NWH and that’s why they know who Spider Man is?
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Just saw it a second time, and it was pretty good.
Re: one of the continuity/timeline slip ups: Didn’t I hear that this movie was supposed to come out before NWH and that’s why they know who Spider Man is?
So yea it was supposed to come out before NWH but the movie is changed to reflect that. They know SPIDER-MAN but not Parker. So he knows he helped spidey but doesn’t remember who he is under the mask.
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Ah! :tup
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I completely agree with Adami. The movie had incredible potential, but had serious writing problems that killed the potential of this film to be excellent, which it well could have been. Some of my issues:
1. Wanda going full-on. Adami already covered this very well. As my oldest son put it, there's no way that Wanda at the end of WandaVision acts the way Wanda in this film acts or does the things Wanda in this film does. Yeah, we know the Darkhold corrupts. But we don't know to what degree, and we didn't see the process with Wanda, so there is no emotional engagement. And, yes, we saw her using the Darkhold in the end credits scene at the end of WandaVision. But there was little, if any, indication in that scene that she was being corrupted by it. It all happened offscreen and we were just supposed to say, "oh, okay." And that's fine, but it is far less than great and, contrary to what we saw in most of the phase 1 - phase 3 films, we didn't get to buy into it emotionally. And I completely reject JD's premise that we saw the Darkhold easily corrupt in Agents of SHIELD. That's all well and good, but Marvel (MCU) pretty much disavowed that show being cannon, so Marvel doesn't get to have it both ways. Sorry, but, again, just not good writing. Her turn back toward the end also seemed too abrupt and not earned. But on that, maybe I was just too frustrated by the initial lack of proper on-screen buildup for her going evil that I wasn't willing to buy into anything by the end of the film.
2. Wong. As Adami said, he was "just there." Didn't really contribute much. But more egregiously, he just did some things that were out of character, and done seemingly just to move the plot where Raimi wanted it to go. Biggest example is him giving up the location of Wundagore. Wong was a stickler for rules, and if Strange would make bold proclamations in Infinity War about letting Stark or Parker die to protect the timestone, there's no way that Wong, who was even more of a stickler, gives up such dangerous, multiverse impacting information to Wanda just because some other sorcerors were being tortured. That is inconsistent with his character. Earlier MCU would not have done something like that.
3. The battle of Wundagore. I initially wasn't too taken out of the moment by the fact that powerful magic users aren't overly impacted by the elements and being out on an extremely high mountain. It's kinda dumb, but that kind of thing is standard superhero fare. But here's the thing: We already established in the first film when Strange got stranded on Everest that cold exposure and oxygen deprivation actually are a thing, even in the MCU. And you have Wong, who had no protection from extreme elements whatsoever, unconscious on a frozen ledge for who knows how long. Again, Raimi just wasn't paying attention to reality or in-universe rules, and I just feel like there was much more care in earlier phases that didn't let similar issues happen.
4. The battle of Kamar Taj. In the grand scheme of things, relatively minor. But there were a few dumb moments that took me out of the action. First of all, when did Kamar Taj magically (haha) transport itself from the middle of the city to a hill overlooking the city? My son said that he got the impression in the first film that the doorway in the city might just be a portal to a bigger compound somewhere else. I guess I can buy that. But it again seemed like Raimi was just making things up rather than following what came before. A bit more egregious though was the whole wizard forcefield sequence. I just thought it was dumb. There should have been a different way of initially thwarting Wanda and holding her back before she cut loose with her power. And a lot of the dialog was just silly. The surprised shouts of "she's breaking through" and "fall back!" make it seem like nobody even listened to Strange saying that they wouldn't be able to hold her in the first place. Once she broke through, all the ensuing chaos was dark, and pretty cool, and well shot. But the opening to the battle left me cold and felt dumbed down and out of place.
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^ Good post. Marvel had previously established such a high consistent level of quality that they have earned tougher critiquing. Shove Covid, if the movie isn't good enough (looking at you Feige) then keep it in the oven until it's ready.
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https://www.buzzfeed.com/noradominick/elizabeth-olsen-doctor-strange-multiverse-of-madness
So happy Lizzie’s getting these rave reviews. She’s amazing.
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I completely agree with Adami. The movie had incredible potential, but had serious writing problems that killed the potential of this film to be excellent, which it well could have been. Some of my issues:
1. Wanda going full-on. Adami already covered this very well. As my oldest son put it, there's no way that Wanda at the end of WandaVision acts the way Wanda in this film acts or does the things Wanda in this film does. Yeah, we know the Darkhold corrupts. But we don't know to what degree, and we didn't see the process with Wanda, so there is no emotional engagement. And, yes, we saw her using the Darkhold in the end credits scene at the end of WandaVision. But there was little, if any, indication in that scene that she was being corrupted by it. It all happened offscreen and we were just supposed to say, "oh, okay." And that's fine, but it is far less than great and, contrary to what we saw in most of the phase 1 - phase 3 films, we didn't get to buy into it emotionally. And I completely reject JD's premise that we saw the Darkhold easily corrupt in Agents of SHIELD. That's all well and good, but Marvel (MCU) pretty much disavowed that show being cannon, so Marvel doesn't get to have it both ways. Sorry, but, again, just not good writing. Her turn back toward the end also seemed too abrupt and not earned. But on that, maybe I was just too frustrated by the initial lack of proper on-screen buildup for her going evil that I wasn't willing to buy into anything by the end of the film.
2. Wong. As Adami said, he was "just there." Didn't really contribute much. But more egregiously, he just did some things that were out of character, and done seemingly just to move the plot where Raimi wanted it to go. Biggest example is him giving up the location of Wundagore. Wong was a stickler for rules, and if Strange would make bold proclamations in Infinity War about letting Stark or Parker die to protect the timestone, there's no way that Wong, who was even more of a stickler, gives up such dangerous, multiverse impacting information to Wanda just because some other sorcerors were being tortured. That is inconsistent with his character. Earlier MCU would not have done something like that.
3. The battle of Wundagore. I initially wasn't too taken out of the moment by the fact that powerful magic users aren't overly impacted by the elements and being out on an extremely high mountain. It's kinda dumb, but that kind of thing is standard superhero fare. But here's the thing: We already established in the first film when Strange got stranded on Everest that cold exposure and oxygen deprivation actually are a thing, even in the MCU. And you have Wong, who had no protection from extreme elements whatsoever, unconscious on a frozen ledge for who knows how long. Again, Raimi just wasn't paying attention to reality or in-universe rules, and I just feel like there was much more care in earlier phases that didn't let similar issues happen.
4. The battle of Kamar Taj. In the grand scheme of things, relatively minor. But there were a few dumb moments that took me out of the action. First of all, when did Kamar Taj magically (haha) transport itself from the middle of the city to a hill overlooking the city? My son said that he got the impression in the first film that the doorway in the city might just be a portal to a bigger compound somewhere else. I guess I can buy that. But it again seemed like Raimi was just making things up rather than following what came before. A bit more egregious though was the whole wizard forcefield sequence. I just thought it was dumb. There should have been a different way of initially thwarting Wanda and holding her back before she cut loose with her power. And a lot of the dialog was just silly. The surprised shouts of "she's breaking through" and "fall back!" make it seem like nobody even listened to Strange saying that they wouldn't be able to hold her in the first place. Once she broke through, all the ensuing chaos was dark, and pretty cool, and well shot. But the opening to the battle left me cold and felt dumbed down and out of place.
This is a great post. Point 1 especially, Wanda going full on evil 'out of nowhere' makes this movie very weak emotionally, totally agree (and I am a big fan of Wanda/Vision - loved it). The connection just isn't there.
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2. Wong. As Adami said, he was "just there." Didn't really contribute much. But more egregiously, he just did some things that were out of character, and done seemingly just to move the plot where Raimi wanted it to go. Biggest example is him giving up the location of Wundagore. Wong was a stickler for rules, and if Strange would make bold proclamations in Infinity War about letting Stark or Parker die to protect the timestone, there's no way that Wong, who was even more of a stickler, gives up such dangerous, multiverse impacting information to Wanda just because some other sorcerors were being tortured. That is inconsistent with his character. Earlier MCU would not have done something like that.
Based on the info Wanda unlike some Marvel villains wasn't a massive threat to humanity, in essence she just wanted to take America's powers and go live in another universe with her kids. And while it started with Sorcerors being tortured and murdered, if Wong doesn't give up the information - what is Wanda capable of doing next to break Wong? Suddenly she is a threat to humanity.
I don't really get the Wanda suddenly going evil bit. Grief and loss from Endgame turned her heel in Wandavision! The odd bit about the film for me is she didn't seem to be interested in finding a reality that had both her kids and Vision!
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^ Good post. Marvel had previously established such a high consistent level of quality that they have earned tougher critiquing. Shove Covid, if the movie isn't good enough (looking at you Feige) then keep it in the oven until it's ready.
Good point. I'd guess there are monetary/business reasons to keep the taps on but have no clue.
I liked it but, yes, it could have been a level higher.
I wonder if it is COVID that has affected these things. I've not heard explicit details of changes made but then I deliberately try to avoid hearing much about them to avoid spoilers and over-exposure.
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Supposedly, the film had 40 minutes cut from it. I'm not sure if it was all filmed, and if it was, if it even made it past editing room (in that it was completed footage but dropped last minute). I've heard that the film was originally going to open with 616 Mordo confronting Wanda (on his quest to remove sorcerers from the planet), and she would've brutally killed him, but obviously this would've been a pretty gory way to open the film.
I've also heard that either Raimi or Waldron revealed that there will be 3 deleted scenes on the home video release, so I'm wondering what they are and if they'd provide better context for things that seem to have been glossed over in the film. I'm wondering if folks will begin the #ReleaseTheRaimiCut campaigns online given how much more Raimi probably wanted in the film. Quite a turn after Sony meddling with Spider-Man 3 by making Raimi introduce Venom - now he's been told to cut things out. :lol
-Marc.
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Supposedly, the film had 40 minutes cut from it. I'm not sure if it was all filmed, and if it was, if it even made it past editing room (in that it was completed footage but dropped last minute). I've heard that the film was originally going to open with 616 Mordo confronting Wanda (on his quest to remove sorcerers from the planet), and she would've brutally killed him, but obviously this would've been a pretty gory way to open the film.
Well, it definitely felt like there should have been more in the film to flesh out the issues I mention above. The Mordo scene, if it was done right, could have really gone a long way in showing Wanda's turn and corruption by the Darkhold. Despite what I said above, despite it all happening offscreen, it still could have been fine IF we still got enough showing us that the Darkhold was warping her, and she was still the same "good Wanda" underneath that we concluded WandaVision with. Again, they just didn't give us enough to connect with in this area and just made us feel like we were watching a character that was different from and just happened to look like the one we knew.
I've also heard that either Raimi or Waldron revealed that there will be 3 deleted scenes on the home video release, so I'm wondering what they are and if they'd provide better context for things that seem to have been glossed over in the film.
I doubt a handful of deleted scenes would impact the film that much. But if they really are that key, they shouldn't be bonus content--they should be in the film. And whether any of that was decided by Raimi, the studio, or someone else, I don't really care. My point still is that, whether by happenstance or intentional decision making, Phases 1-3 MCU didn't make these types of bad storytelling decisions. Or at least, they weren't nearly as frequent as what we are seeing in phase 4 so far.
As I have posted repeatedly, I fully expect a dropoff after phase 3. But I expect it because the first 3 phases were so good, the ultimate threat was so big, and it was executed so well overall. Add to that the fact that, with so much content, mistakes in continuity are just bound to happen. What I was not expecting is a dropoff in quality due to bad writing and/or bad decision making. That just bums me out because it is absolutely preventable. I don't expect Marvel to cater to me and my tastes. And I hate even using the term "quality" when so much of what we like or dislike about films or other types are art is subjective. But that said, there seemed to be painstaking care in making sure things in the first three films were consistent, that characters developed in arcs that made sense, and that we were shown reasons onscreen why we should care about these characters and what happened to them. And on the latter point especially, I have been repeatedly astounded by the MCU's ability to do that with characters I otherwise didn't know or even care about. That is what I mean when I say there is a dropoff in "quality."
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Unsure if it’s been mentioned yet, but apparently Daniel Craig was originally cast as Reed RichRds but had to back out for Covid reasons. I think Krasinski casting took me out a bit since it’s been SO telegraphed. I think seeing Ian whatever return to play him would have been a cool moment honestly. Especially since the other cameos were played by people we already associated with those roles.
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This is the first MCU movie that has direct links to one of the Disney+ shows. A couple of people at work saw the movie over the weekend and were confused by Wanda because although they've seen most of the movies they've not been watching the shows as they don't have a Disney accounts. I do think this could be an issue moving forwards, itay also be part of the lower than normal audience score this one is getting.
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This is the first MCU movie that has direct links to one of the Disney+ shows. A couple of people at work saw the movie over the weekend and were confused by Wanda because although they've seen most of the movies they've not been watching the shows as they don't have a Disney accounts. I do think this could be an issue moving forwards, itay also be part of the lower than normal audience score this one is getting.
If someone is a fan of Marvel, they have to know by know that skipping certain shows or movies is going to seriously throw off their equilibrium. Were they aware of WandaVision or people's reactions to it?
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There’s also the issue that D+ is not available in every country.
On a side note, the cheering for Reed Richards was too loud for me to hear what Strange said to him when he first met him. Did anyone catch it?
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There’s also the issue that D+ is not available in every country.
On a side note, the cheering for Reed Richards was too loud for me to hear what Strange said to him when he first met him. Did anyone catch it?
https://youtu.be/Uyf-69XqNZw
-Marc.
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This is the first MCU movie that has direct links to one of the Disney+ shows. A couple of people at work saw the movie over the weekend and were confused by Wanda because although they've seen most of the movies they've not been watching the shows as they don't have a Disney accounts. I do think this could be an issue moving forwards, itay also be part of the lower than normal audience score this one is getting.
Were they aware of WandaVision or people's reactions to it?
No. The people from my work place certainly weren't, but they aren't Marvel fans as such, they just have generally liked these movies - the popularity of these movies has hovered up a lot of people who weren't comicbook fans, but they probably just watch the films and then forget about them till the next one comes out, they don't discuss the finer points of the plot and phases like the fans do. So yeah I do wonder if linking the shows to the films maybe a mistake going forwards?
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There’s also the issue that D+ is not available in every country.
On a side note, the cheering for Reed Richards was too loud for me to hear what Strange said to him when he first met him. Did anyone catch it?
https://youtu.be/Uyf-69XqNZw
-Marc.
"Didn't you guys chart in the 60's?"
Huh. Was hoping for something better than that, but thanks!
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There’s also the issue that D+ is not available in every country.
On a side note, the cheering for Reed Richards was too loud for me to hear what Strange said to him when he first met him. Did anyone catch it?
https://youtu.be/Uyf-69XqNZw
-Marc.
"Didn't you guys chart in the 60's?"
Huh. Was hoping for something better than that, but thanks!
I thought it was clever given his affinity for expansive pop music knowledge as shown in the first film.
-Marc.
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That seems a bit of a stretch. But maybe? Seemed like he was just making fun of the name.
But it's all good. Cute moment.
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That seems a bit of a stretch. But maybe? Seemed like he was just making fun of the name.
But it's all good. Cute moment.
I actually thought it was on point. It was totally in character both in terms of his smarminess and, as pointed out, his musical affinity (a lot of what we saw in the first film was '60s and '70s related music, and Fantastic Four actually sounds like it could have been a band name from that era or a bit earlier).
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TL;DR - Why wasn't Wanda trying to find Vision but only the kids?
The Critical Drinker makes a lot of great points:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zggDqLGCk8
My biggest takeaway from his review is when he said "why isn't Wanda trying to find Vision in one of the other universes?"
What we know, 100% and without any question, is how much she loves Vision and how much they've been through together but he's barely even mentioned in this movie... it's all about the kids that she "made".
It would have made more sense if she was trying to find Vision and also the fact that if she *does* go to a universe with the kids they're already 10 years old and she's missed all that baby/toddler/kid stuff which, I'm sure most parents would agree, are the best parts of having kids. Wanda is just entering their lives at a time when they're about to be angst-ridden and emo for the next 10 years and that's not gonna be fun.
I managed to keep myself spoiler-free and I had no idea that Wanda was going to be the villain for the whole thing. I thought maybe Strange would snap her out of it and then they do the rest of the stuff as a team fighting evil so for SW to be the baddy was unexpected and awesome.
I also really loved how much darker/violent this movie was compared to all of the others.
Reed's death was diabolical and cruel and Black Bolt's suicide was a total shock and something I'd never expect in anything Disney-related but it was so cool. And, of course, Prof X getting his neck snapped (Patrick Stewart is finally showing his age, though) and Captain Carter getting Darth-Mauled was "wow". But Cap Marvel's death didn't make any sense if a simple stone statue can crush her so easily.
Was anyone else disappointed that we didn't see Ultron or an evil Tony Stark? As soon as I saw those Iron Man robots I figured it has to be one of them but then it wasn't either of them.
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Lizzie has an interview where she explains why she’s not looking for Vision.
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I was only slightly bummed there wasn't a Tom Cruise Tony Stark there. I didn't catch it the first time due to audience reactions but the "Ultron commands you to stop" line from one of the robots made me smile right after Wanda blows its head off. I was never crazy about Ultron so I didn't think about him much.
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Finally saw it on Tuesday, and for the most part enjoyed it very much. Upper 1/2 MCU move afaic. Olsen stole the performance naturally. Couple of thoughts on the commentary here.
re: Adami's Illuminati rant. I see what you're saying, but still think you're full of shit :biggrin:. I think it was absolutely necessary to see just how fucking powerful Wanda was. Sure, she'd taken out Kamar Taj with relative ease, but those aren't warriors meant for battle, and very basic in their powers. She'd been bested by Thanos, nearly bested by Agatha, so her domination of the Illuminati - particularly out-mindfucking Prof X was important. to show just how big of a threat she is/was. The fact that it also gave a bit of fan-service in the process was appreciated by this movie-goer. Now, Reed Richards giving away Black Bolt's power so that Wanda could give him the old Wade Wilson treatment - that wasn't very smart.
re: Bosk's rant about Wong giving up the location of the carvings. I also see that point, and think that it might have been better for Wanda just to go into his head to pull out the information. The fact she tortured a few good Sorcerers, and that alone was enough for Wong to give up the goods was kinda grating (much like Gamorra giving up Voromir just cuz Maw was stretching out Nebula - I hated that).
Would've liked to have seen more Multi-verse, but the scene of Strange and Chavez going thru about a dozen multi-verses was pretty cool.
Wanda's heel turn - totally fine with it. No issues. And yes, Wanda at the end of W/V would fall back into her evil ways. Hell, she up and ran away from the months of torture she put those people without much more than a "sorry, my bad. We cool now?" and flew off. If anything the "remorse" she showed on screen was as brief as her turning back to evil was fast. Not exactly sure how anyone can say her fall back to the dark side wasn't well written, and not feel the same way about how she absolved herself from all that was done to Westview. Would it have been nice for it (the heel-turn) to be drawn out a little more? Sure, but sometimes it's ok just to get to the point. We've all lamented some aspects of movies that get drawn out for no apparent reason, so I took no issue of turning her heel right out of the gate. Her abrupt un-heel turn was also understandable - she saw herself thru Billy and Tommy's eyes, and realized she was the monster that could never be a mother. I wasn't terribly stuffed about that.
Zombie Strange was great. The musical battle with Strange Supreme was excellent. American Chavez was great. Charlize as Clea is a great casting choice - can't wait to see them together in the Dark Dimension.
Overall, a solid B++
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If I were grading it, I'd probably put it in the B-/C+ range (probably B-, but I need to see it again to figure out how much those points actually bother me, or if I'm just stewing over them a little too hard and perhaps blowing the context out of proportion).
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@Chad being super wrong :biggrin:
Gonna disagree with you there big guy. I will maybe grant you how she handled Professor X. However, seeing her that powerful, at least enough to kill Captain Marvel with a statue (dumb), change Blackbolts face to not have a mouth, and turn Reed into a bunch of Strings..........didn't pay off. Yes, you set her as VERY powerful in that scene, but then what did she do with it? She slowly chased them for a while and knocked over some doors. Then she threw magic bolts or whatever at Strange at the end. The powers they set her up to have in the Illuminati scene almost immediately went away. She literally warped reality twice and then just forgot she could do it? So no, it wasn't helpful or meaningful because the end battle featured NONE of the power they set up. She was exactly as powerful at the end as they set her up to be at the battle of Katmandu or whatever.
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@Chad being super wrong :biggrin:
Gonna disagree with you there big guy. I will maybe grant you how she handled Professor X. However, seeing her that powerful, at least enough to kill Captain Marvel with a statue (dumb), change Blackbolts face to not have a mouth, and turn Reed into a bunch of Strings..........didn't pay off. Yes, you set her as VERY powerful in that scene, but then what did she do with it? She slowly chased them for a while and knocked over some doors. Then she threw magic bolts or whatever at Strange at the end. The powers they set her up to have in the Illuminati scene almost immediately went away. She literally warped reality twice and then just forgot she could do it? So no, it wasn't helpful or meaningful because the end battle featured NONE of the power they set up. She was exactly as powerful at the end as they set her up to be at the battle of Katmandu or whatever.
That's the problem with magic powers. Even Strange vs the Eye monster at the start. So he can make magic disks that slice clean though the monsters tenticles....why not just create more and slice the body to pieces?
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It’s been a problem with Superhero movies for decades, they only use the powers needed for that particular scene. Same thing as Godzilla waiting forever to use his nuclear breath vs the MUTOs. Stuff is never consistent.
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@Chad being super wrong :biggrin:
Gonna disagree with you there big guy. I will maybe grant you how she handled Professor X. However, seeing her that powerful, at least enough to kill Captain Marvel with a statue (dumb), change Blackbolts face to not have a mouth, and turn Reed into a bunch of Strings..........didn't pay off. Yes, you set her as VERY powerful in that scene, but then what did she do with it? She slowly chased them for a while and knocked over some doors. Then she threw magic bolts or whatever at Strange at the end. The powers they set her up to have in the Illuminati scene almost immediately went away. She literally warped reality twice and then just forgot she could do it? So no, it wasn't helpful or meaningful because the end battle featured NONE of the power they set up. She was exactly as powerful at the end as they set her up to be at the battle of Katmandu or whatever.
With this as the premise, then movies would be about 7 seconds. Like, why doesn't Strange just pull the Loki-treatment on everyone .... send them through a portal and have them "falling"... not just for 30 minutes, but for eternity? Throw a sliding portal to send them to the bottom of the Atlantic? Or the moon?
We could do this all day.
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I was thinking about this... Captain Carter, Captain Marvel, and Black Bolt could arguably at least fight with Wanda. What the hell was Reed Richards going to do anyway? Bind around her like a snake? What exactly can Stretch McGillicuddi DO? I never read Fantastic 4 and don't really remember him doing anything cool in the cartoon I briefly watched as a kid.
I wonder if they'll ever introduce his son into the MCU. He can basically think of universes into existence.
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@ Captain Canada
You're arguing against specific aspects of my criticism without addressing the entire criticism. It's not the what, but the how. The Illuminati scene, even by your admittance, served two major purposes. 1) Show how powerful Wanda was, and 2) Get audience applause. Since showing how powerful Wanda was had NO impact on the story what so ever, then it only served one purpose, getting applause, and I think that's cheap and cynical. Yes, sometimes they show people using one power and then never again or only when it's convenient, but usually those scenes serve a purpose other than showing the power. This didn't. It show that Wanda could turn zombie strange, or Wong, or America, or whomever, into ANYTHING via reality warping. She could turn zombie Strange into a dog, or simply dust, but chose instead to throw witch lightning at him the entire time. So showing that she HAD the power to turn him into a dog or whatever serves no purpose at all. It didn't make her a bigger threat or give Strange anything to overcome. As I said, if you completely remove the Illuminati scene, it changes the story 0%. That's not a good thing. I think it COULD have been cool, but it just wasn't. It was applause and nothing more. If you're going to bring back Stewart and Mount and introduce a new Captain Britain and Reed Richards, then make them have significance. They just didn't, sadly. If you loved it, cool. A ton of people did. I don't want to take that way, but it's still a pretty poorly written scene. Don't get me wrong, I like bad stuff too now and then. Doesn't make it great simply because I had fun. I'd have a good time an airport Sbarro. But I won't call it well made pizza, you know? Spider-Man No Way Home had a lot of flaws as well, but because I was so invested in the story, the characters, etc., then I was able to largely not be bothered. But because I was not terribly invested in the story/characters in this movie (at least not nearly as much), then the flaws stop being so forgivable. A well constructed plot, character arcs, emotional buy in, etc., would have gone a long way for me.
@Kattle, I agree about Reed. He's a good fighter, but not against someone like Wanda. I'd imagine he was there to talk her down, somehow? But....yea, being the dude right in front of her isn't in character for him. He'd be in a lab or something trying to devise a way to take her down, not standing in front of her telling her how to defeat their secret weapon. It's a situation of a writer writing a character MUCH smarter than the writer is. It doesn't usually work out.
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I disagree that showing how powerful Wanda is has no purpose or impact on the story. It makes her sacrifice in the end that much more meaningful...nobody can beat her, we thoroughly know that because she fucking mowed through the Illuminati without breaking a sweat. It's crystal clear that she, in the end, can have what she wants. But she sees also what she has become when America puts her in that scene with her kids, and she knows that's not who she is. The good in her wins out, it defines her in the end.
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I disagree that showing how powerful Wanda is has no purpose or impact on the story. It makes her sacrifice in the end that much more meaningful...nobody can beat her, we thoroughly know that because she fucking mowed through the Illuminati without breaking a sweat. It's crystal clear that she, in the end, can have what she wants. But she sees also what she has become when America puts her in that scene with her kids, and she knows that's not who she is. The good in her wins out, it defines her in the end.
I can see that. I think that had the potential to be powerful, but I disagree that it mattered much. She destroyed magic mountain, defeated Wong, and Strange without much of a problem. I think they COULD have used something like the illuminati scene to make her sacrifice powerful, as I agree that was supposed to be a powerful moment. I just don't think it was done well enough to have that impact, at least for me. Her sacrifice didn't mean more to me because she turned Richards into twizzler's pull and peel. So for me, and maybe me alone, it just didn't have any impact. AND it cheapened characters we have all been waiting for. I want to care when Reed Richards does something, or Black Bolt, or Captain Brittan, or even their Cap Marvel. But I just didn't. The only reason I cared at all about Charles was because there's 22 years of history behind that. I just wish they had executed their idea differently. The idea was sound, but the execution (no pun intended) was lacking.
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I disagree that showing how powerful Wanda is has no purpose or impact on the story. It makes her sacrifice in the end that much more meaningful...nobody can beat her, we thoroughly know that because she fucking mowed through the Illuminati without breaking a sweat. It's crystal clear that she, in the end, can have what she wants. But she sees also what she has become when America puts her in that scene with her kids, and she knows that's not who she is. The good in her wins out, it defines her in the end.
I can see that. I think that had the potential to be powerful, but I disagree that it mattered much. She destroyed magic mountain, defeated Wong, and Strange without much of a problem. I think they COULD have used something like the illuminati scene to make her sacrifice powerful, as I agree that was supposed to be a powerful moment. I just don't think it was done well enough to have that impact, at least for me. Her sacrifice didn't mean more to me because she turned Richards into twizzler's pull and peel. So for me, and maybe me alone, it just didn't have any impact. AND it cheapened characters we have all been waiting for. I want to care when Reed Richards does something, or Black Bolt, or Captain Brittan, or even their Cap Marvel. But I just didn't. The only reason I cared at all about Charles was because there's 22 years of history behind that. I just wish they had executed their idea differently. The idea was sound, but the execution (no pun intended) was lacking.
Funny, in talking to my kid about it, she (being a massive Xmen comic fan) was kind of bummed when it became clear Stewart's version of Xavier was going to be used. She wanted an xmen unique to the MCU, not a rehash of the old series, so maybe by doing this, and to a lesser extent the brief use of Pietro in Wandavision, is solely fan service, and a way of saying 'yes, we are going away from the old xmen' by literally snapping his neck.
Just spitballing here man.
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@ Captain Canada
You're arguing against specific aspects of my criticism without addressing the entire criticism. It's not the what, but the how. The Illuminati scene, even by your admittance, served two major purposes. 1) Show how powerful Wanda was, and 2) Get audience applause. Since showing how powerful Wanda was had NO impact on the story what so ever,
We'll agree to disagree.
I think it COULD have been cool, but it just wasn't. It was applause and nothing more. If you're going to bring back Stewart and Mount and introduce a new Captain Britain and Reed Richards, then make them have significance. They just didn't, sadly.
On this, we can agree. It most certainly COULD have been better - that can easily be said for 90% of movie/TV scenes in the history of ever.
@Kattle, I agree about Reed. He's a good fighter, but not against someone like Wanda. I'd imagine he was there to talk her down, somehow? But....yea, being the dude right in front of her isn't in character for him. He'd be in a lab or something trying to devise a way to take her down, not standing in front of her telling her how to defeat their secret weapon. It's a situation of a writer writing a character MUCH smarter than the writer is. It doesn't usually work out.
And we agree on this as well. All part of the "it could've been better"
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I disagree that showing how powerful Wanda is has no purpose or impact on the story. It makes her sacrifice in the end that much more meaningful...nobody can beat her, we thoroughly know that because she fucking mowed through the Illuminati without breaking a sweat. It's crystal clear that she, in the end, can have what she wants. But she sees also what she has become when America puts her in that scene with her kids, and she knows that's not who she is. The good in her wins out, it defines her in the end.
I can see that. I think that had the potential to be powerful, but I disagree that it mattered much. She destroyed magic mountain, defeated Wong, and Strange without much of a problem. I think they COULD have used something like the illuminati scene to make her sacrifice powerful, as I agree that was supposed to be a powerful moment. I just don't think it was done well enough to have that impact, at least for me. Her sacrifice didn't mean more to me because she turned Richards into twizzler's pull and peel. So for me, and maybe me alone, it just didn't have any impact. AND it cheapened characters we have all been waiting for. I want to care when Reed Richards does something, or Black Bolt, or Captain Brittan, or even their Cap Marvel. But I just didn't. The only reason I cared at all about Charles was because there's 22 years of history behind that. I just wish they had executed their idea differently. The idea was sound, but the execution (no pun intended) was lacking.
Funny, in talking to my kid about it, she (being a massive Xmen comic fan) was kind of bummed when it became clear Stewart's version of Xavier was going to be used. She wanted an xmen unique to the MCU, not a rehash of the old series, so maybe by doing this, and to a lesser extent the brief use of Pietro in Wandavision, is solely fan service, and a way of saying 'yes, we are going away from the old xmen' by literally snapping his neck.
Just spitballing here man.
Oh I agree with your kiddo. I love the old X-Men movies (well...most of them at least), but I want fresh takes in this MCU. That's actually one reason I think Ion or whatever from the 2000's FF would have been a cooler Reed Richards, since it would be in line with bringing back people who previously played the character.
I'd be happy if the MCU introduces X-Men, FF, and maybe even Inhumans that are not at all related to what we saw in the Illuminati.
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@ Captain Canada
You're arguing against specific aspects of my criticism without addressing the entire criticism. It's not the what, but the how. The Illuminati scene, even by your admittance, served two major purposes. 1) Show how powerful Wanda was, and 2) Get audience applause. Since showing how powerful Wanda was had NO impact on the story what so ever,
We'll agree to disagree.
I think it COULD have been cool, but it just wasn't. It was applause and nothing more. If you're going to bring back Stewart and Mount and introduce a new Captain Britain and Reed Richards, then make them have significance. They just didn't, sadly.
On this, we can agree. It most certainly COULD have been better - that can easily be said for 90% of movie/TV scenes in the history of ever.
@Kattle, I agree about Reed. He's a good fighter, but not against someone like Wanda. I'd imagine he was there to talk her down, somehow? But....yea, being the dude right in front of her isn't in character for him. He'd be in a lab or something trying to devise a way to take her down, not standing in front of her telling her how to defeat their secret weapon. It's a situation of a writer writing a character MUCH smarter than the writer is. It doesn't usually work out.
And we agree on this as well. All part of the "it could've been better"
It's cool.
I'll change my wedding tie to "Stadler and Jingle are wrong" :biggrin:
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I disagree that showing how powerful Wanda is has no purpose or impact on the story. It makes her sacrifice in the end that much more meaningful...nobody can beat her, we thoroughly know that because she fucking mowed through the Illuminati without breaking a sweat. It's crystal clear that she, in the end, can have what she wants. But she sees also what she has become when America puts her in that scene with her kids, and she knows that's not who she is. The good in her wins out, it defines her in the end.
I can see that. I think that had the potential to be powerful, but I disagree that it mattered much. She destroyed magic mountain, defeated Wong, and Strange without much of a problem. I think they COULD have used something like the illuminati scene to make her sacrifice powerful, as I agree that was supposed to be a powerful moment. I just don't think it was done well enough to have that impact, at least for me. Her sacrifice didn't mean more to me because she turned Richards into twizzler's pull and peel. So for me, and maybe me alone, it just didn't have any impact. AND it cheapened characters we have all been waiting for. I want to care when Reed Richards does something, or Black Bolt, or Captain Brittan, or even their Cap Marvel. But I just didn't. The only reason I cared at all about Charles was because there's 22 years of history behind that. I just wish they had executed their idea differently. The idea was sound, but the execution (no pun intended) was lacking.
Funny, in talking to my kid about it, she (being a massive Xmen comic fan) was kind of bummed when it became clear Stewart's version of Xavier was going to be used. She wanted an xmen unique to the MCU, not a rehash of the old series, so maybe by doing this, and to a lesser extent the brief use of Pietro in Wandavision, is solely fan service, and a way of saying 'yes, we are going away from the old xmen' by literally snapping his neck.
Just spitballing here man.
Oh I agree with your kiddo. I love the old X-Men movies (well...most of them at least), but I want fresh takes in this MCU. That's actually one reason I think Ion or whatever from the 2000's FF would have been a cooler Reed Richards, since it would be in line with bringing back people who previously played the character.
I'd be happy if the MCU introduces X-Men, FF, and maybe even Inhumans that are not at all related to what we saw in the Illuminati.
I think we're all in agreement on that one..
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Ioan Gruffudd is a pretty weak actor and wasn't a great Reed, no need to bring him back.
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As is usually the case (except when he is disagreeing with Stadler), Adami is correct on just about everything.
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Ioan Gruffudd is a pretty weak actor and wasn't a great Reed, no need to bring him back.
Hence the thought of bringing him back just to instantly waste him.
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Saw the movie again today, and some of the things that bothered me on first watch I thought were fine this time around. In fact, besides some awkward dialogue here and there, I thought the movie was great up to, and including, the illuminati stuff. After their death is when things got a little...strange for me.
The whole scene with Wanda chasing them through the tunnel was simply not good. You have three people supposedly running full speed and unable to outrun a limping woman, which even though she can fly, for some reason was just limping her way around.
The whole Zombie strange while cool, parts of it felt cheesy. Also, it reminds me of Edgar the Bug from Men in Black.
But overall, much better than the first watch. Illuminati stuff was fine. Seeing it after reading all the criticism gave me a different perspective and I think that scene while not very important for the plot, it serves a purpose which is to get Strange to the book of Vishanti, and even if he didn't get to use it, it serves the purpose to move the plot forward to strange using the Darkhold.
One thing I thought was that we didn't see Mordo from the 616. Wonder what he was up to?
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Saw the movie again today, and some of the things that bothered me on first watch I thought were fine this time around. In fact, besides some awkward dialogue here and there, I thought the movie was great up to, and including, the illuminati stuff. After their death is when things got a little...strange for me.
The whole scene with Wanda chasing them through the tunnel was simply not good. You have three people supposedly running full speed and unable to outrun a limping woman, which even though she can fly, for some reason was just limping her way around.
The whole Zombie strange while cool, parts of it felt cheesy. Also, it reminds me of Edgar the Bug from Men in Black.
But overall, much better than the first watch. Illuminati stuff was fine. Seeing it after reading all the criticism gave me a different perspective and I think that scene while not very important for the plot, it serves a purpose which is to get Strange to the book of Vishanti, and even if he didn't get to use it, it serves the purpose to move the plot forward to strange using the Darkhold.
One thing I thought was that we didn't see Mordo from the 616. Wonder what he was up to?
I read that 616 Mordo is in the 40+ minutes that were cut from the movie. Apparently Mordo was on the opening scene of the movie fighting Wanda for using the Darkhold. In one of the posters we see Mordo in the twin where Wanda was hiding.
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Lizzie has an interview where she explains why she’s not looking for Vision.
Cool, but it still should have at least been addressed in the movie. WandaVision was all about Wanda's grief over losing Vision. Was he even mentioned in this movie?
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Lizzie has an interview where she explains why she’s not looking for Vision.
Cool, but it still should have at least been addressed in the movie. WandaVision was all about Wanda's grief over losing Vision. Was he even mentioned in this movie?
Twice, I believe, albeit very briefly. The one I remember is when Strange asks Wanda what she knows about the multiverse and she respond that "Viz had his theories. He said it was dangerous." or something along those lines. I think there was another mention of him later on but I cannot remember.
-Marc.
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Ah, I remember that now. Still, if she's willing to do everything she did in the movie to get her kids back (or more accurately, take over the life of some variant of herself that still has her kids), why not find a 'verse with Vision as well?
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Because "poor writing" is probably the correct answer.
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Because "poor writing" is probably the correct answer.
Either that, or they didn't want to squeeze in another character to complicate the plot. Maybe after she got the kids she would have set out trying to find Viz too.
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I finally saw it.
My only really big issues were that Wanda was hell-bent on her kids and didn't care about Vision, the Illuminati were under-utilized, and that Strange didn't really have much of an arc. But it was definitely fun to watch, and I was especially glad that they let Raimi be Raimi.
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So I've been thinking about it, and I realized I'm not totally sure I have a sense of who Strange is as a character. I know WHAT he does, but I'm not sure why he does it, you know? I got the overall character and motivation for the other MCU people (minus Eternals, I guess) but I just have no sense of who Strange is as a character. He seems more of a function than a person at this point.
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He protects our reality, douchebag.
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He protects our reality, douchebag.
Haven't seen him do squat for Canada.
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He protects our reality, douchebag.
Haven't seen him do squat for Canada.
Since we're about 12% of the US by many measurements, he's done 12% of squat for us.
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He protects our reality, douchebag.
Haven't seen him do squat for Canada.
Since we're about 12% of the US by many measurements, he's done 12% of squat for us.
I think we call that collateral damage.
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So I've been thinking about it, and I realized I'm not totally sure I have a sense of who Strange is as a character. I know WHAT he does, but I'm not sure why he does it, you know? I got the overall character and motivation for the other MCU people (minus Eternals, I guess) but I just have no sense of who Strange is as a character. He seems more of a function than a person at this point.
I don't really feel anything for him, tbh. The stuff he does is, you know, really powerful, but there's no attachment from me. If they'd have killed him off in that movie I wouldn't have given a toss.
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So I've been thinking about it, and I realized I'm not totally sure I have a sense of who Strange is as a character. I know WHAT he does, but I'm not sure why he does it, you know? I got the overall character and motivation for the other MCU people (minus Eternals, I guess) but I just have no sense of who Strange is as a character. He seems more of a function than a person at this point.
Similar to Stark. Intelligence and arrogance....but where as Stark was more of an extrovert (money, fast cars, hot women) and loves being social where he can be the centre of attention. Strange is an introvert, generally a loner seeking knowledge, being round other people generally annoys him, because he thinks himself above them.
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So I've been thinking about it, and I realized I'm not totally sure I have a sense of who Strange is as a character. I know WHAT he does, but I'm not sure why he does it, you know? I got the overall character and motivation for the other MCU people (minus Eternals, I guess) but I just have no sense of who Strange is as a character. He seems more of a function than a person at this point.
I don't really feel anything for him, tbh. The stuff he does is, you know, really powerful, but there's no attachment from me. If they'd have killed him off in that movie I wouldn't have given a toss.
I feel the same way about Strange. Interesting character, but I'm not invested in him at all for someone who's been around for several movies at this point.
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So I've been thinking about it, and I realized I'm not totally sure I have a sense of who Strange is as a character. I know WHAT he does, but I'm not sure why he does it, you know? I got the overall character and motivation for the other MCU people (minus Eternals, I guess) but I just have no sense of who Strange is as a character. He seems more of a function than a person at this point.
Similar to Stark. Intelligence and arrogance....but where as Stark was more of an extrovert (money, fast cars, hot women) and loves being social where he can be the centre of attention. Strange is an introvert, generally a loner seeking knowledge, being round other people generally annoys him, because he thinks himself above them.
But that’s not his character or arc. That’s his flaws. Or some of them.
I know why Stark, and Rogers, and Thor, and Banner do what they do. I have no clue why Strange does. Other than he’s a hero and stuff.
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So I've been thinking about it, and I realized I'm not totally sure I have a sense of who Strange is as a character. I know WHAT he does, but I'm not sure why he does it, you know? I got the overall character and motivation for the other MCU people (minus Eternals, I guess) but I just have no sense of who Strange is as a character. He seems more of a function than a person at this point.
Similar to Stark. Intelligence and arrogance....but where as Stark was more of an extrovert (money, fast cars, hot women) and loves being social where he can be the centre of attention. Strange is an introvert, generally a loner seeking knowledge, being round other people generally annoys him, because he thinks himself above them.
But that’s not his character or arc. That’s his flaws. Or some of them.
Often these characters arcs are just them having to get over thier flaws.
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QUESTION:
In Infinity War Strange tells Tony that they win in only one universe
In Multiverse of Madness we see that at least in another universe they also win (Charles, Mr Fantastic, Thunderbolt, Captain Marvel and the others)
Did Strange was wrong? Did he lie to Tony?
What are your thoughts?
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QUESTION:
In Infinity War Strange tells Tony that they win in only one universe
In Multiverse of Madness we see that at least in another universe they also win (Charles, Mr Fantastic, Thunderbolt, Captain Marvel and the others)
Did Strange was wrong? Did he lie to Tony?
What are your thoughts?
What Strange tells Tony was most likely for that universe only. There's never any mention of him going to different multiverses, he goes forward in time with different scenarios in the same universe.
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QUESTION:
In Infinity War Strange tells Tony that they win in only one universe
In Multiverse of Madness we see that at least in another universe they also win (Charles, Mr Fantastic, Thunderbolt, Captain Marvel and the others)
Did Strange was wrong? Did he lie to Tony?
What are your thoughts?
What Strange tells Tony was most likely for that universe only. There's never any mention of him going to different multiverses, he goes forward in time with different scenarios in the same universe.
Oh, ok.
Maybe the the translation in Spanish was wrong, I need to watch it with audio in English now.
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Also, 14M out of infinity is still a pretty small number.
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Saw a video about the BR commentaries and deleted scenes and man, this movie could've been so much better. Not that it was bad, but it seems a lot of the material that didn't make the final cut would have improved it so much.
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Saw a video about the BR commentaries and deleted scenes and man, this movie could've been so much better. Not that it was bad, but it seems a lot of the material that didn't make the final cut would have improved it so much.
I just got my Target edition BD set and I haven't had a chance to watch the special features yet, but I'm excited to see what they include. I really enjoyed the documentary on Disney+.
-Marc.
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Saw a video about the BR commentaries and deleted scenes and man, this movie could've been so much better. Not that it was bad, but it seems a lot of the material that didn't make the final cut would have improved it so much.
That doesn't surprise me. Most of the issues I had with the film revolve around things we were simply told rather than shown. And in order for some things to have emotional resonance or have the desired impact, you have to see what the character is going through and how that impacts them. We were definitely missing some of that in this film, and just a bit more care in that area could have easily taken it from "just okay" to "really great."
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Yea I think Dr. Strange is the film that really could've benefited from being longer and including more moments instead of simply telling people that it happened off screen.
Thor on the other hand may be improved somewhat by a longer cut (which Taika himself has dismissed) but that one really just seemed to be lost in the writing department.
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Hadn't commented on the movie but I really enjoyed it. I never watched any of the trailers so had no idea who all were going to be in it or what iterations of Doctor Strange there were. And as probably one of the very few who loved the What If series, it was great to see some of those characters placed in the movie.
I had no clue Wanda would be the central role in being the villain. I kinda liked it even if the motivation for her was a bit iffy esp if you've seen her in WandaVision. I'm curious to re-watch it with the wife as she's not seen any of the shows apart from Loki, this movie takes some of the elements of the D+ shows more than any of the others have.
I enjoyed the 'Raimi'ness of the movie, seeing the mixed reaction towards it I thought I'd be indifferent to it but like others have said, some pacing and editing issues aside it was a solid movie.
Thor 4 is the only one I haven't seen yet and that seems even more mixed than D Strange.
Going back to the extra features listed on the bluray release, they seem really bare apart from the commentary. The documentary on D+ isn't included so guess they're splitting up the availability across platforms.
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I think 90% of us fans would be happier with much longer run times . . . I mean they’ve filmed the footage after all. But of course it comes down to $ and the amount of screenings you could fit in.
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I don't know how much of a factor that is right now. Both the last avengers movies were 3 hours long. Wasn't the latest Spiderman movie 2 1/2 hours?
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Yea I think Dr. Strange is the film that really could've benefited from being longer and including more moments instead of simply telling people that it happened off screen.
Thor on the other hand may be improved somewhat by a longer cut (which Taika himself has dismissed) but that one really just seemed to be lost in the writing department.
Interesting, to me it kinda feels the other way around.
Dr Strange is fine in length but I wish they jeeted out the whole Illuminati stuff (I thought they were terrible to be honest) and spend a more time on Wanda, Strange, and the girl accross alternate dimensions.
Thor to me needed much more breathing time between the funny bits and the more serious stuff, but I do like the overall plot and characters.
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I just watched this with my wife last night, and we both enjoyed it immensely.
That said - I agree with everything Adami and Bosk1 have said in this thread, the only difference being that it didn't hamper my enjoyment much.
I've seen this happen before, where a TV show that provides lots of space for character and plot development gets resolved by a fast-paced movie. It's hard to adapt to, at first, because everything feels "rushed". It was hard to really get into heel Wanda, because of how fast (though logical) her heel turn way.
That said I think this general directing, the visuals, and the music were all a notch above much of what I've seen from the MCU thus far. Really love that they let Rami do his thing, and Elfman is always great.