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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Glasser on August 19, 2021, 09:16:55 PM
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For the fans who were not introduced to DT with this album and for those who were, how cool would it be if this album was reworked and re-recorded? Should this be left alone as a classic or should these tunes be given a new chance with a modern day vibe and obviously an upgraded production? I personally would love it. Thoughts?
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Left alone.
I would have loved it back in the early 90's when Kevin Moore was still in the band, but Rudess overplays too many of the original parts. And JLB doesn't have the voice now that he did then, and songs like The Killing Hand would suffer a bit as a result.
Leave as it is. I enjoy it for what it is, warts and all. There is a youthful exuberance to their playing on that record that would be impossible to recapture now, especially with half of the players on the original not in the band anymore.
In other words, I think that ship has sailed. Not like it would ever happen anyway.
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All valid points. It just bothers me how this albums gets dismissed or even compared to the JLB era. To me it was a game changer. A full remix/remaster would be great but I’m sure that will never happen.
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The only interesting thing to me about this would be having a studio version with James LaBrie on vocals. I don't really notice flaws with things like production, mixing, mastering, etc., and in the case of WDADU, it sounds completely fine to me. I don't notice any production issues it might have, and as such it doesn't get in the way of my enjoyment of the album. I suppose I'm in the minority in this regard, though.
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Nah i prefer this the way it is. Also i like Charlie's vocals, so there's that.
On the other hand, i'd love ADTOE and DT to be remixed (maybe drums re-recorded).
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The ship has sailed looooong ago.
Without two of the members who played on that album and James being 30 years older than when he was belting out I'M IN THE VALLEEEEEEYYYYY there's no point in doing it anymore.
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They already released a live version. Close enough.
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At this point in my life, I cringe at the remnants of the 1980s vibe in Images and Words. Moreso this album, so hard pass.
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Gonna go out on a limb and say that for an artist like JP, re-recording an album that flopped commercially, filled with songs you (probably) started writing in high school ranks somewhere between opening for Bret Michaels at the Ho Chunk Casino and working with Desmond Child again.
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Nah i prefer this the way it is. Also i like Charlie's vocals, so there's that.
On the other hand, i'd love ADTOE and DT to be remixed (maybe drums re-recorded).
If you haven't checked out the Apple Music lossless versions, I highly recommend that you do. Not so much for ADTOE - that mix seemed to stay the same. But to my ears, DT is improved significantly. I'm not an audiophile and don't really understand all the things about snares and bass and whatnot being buried in the mix, but this Apple version sounds so much cleaner with great drums etc. I've always liked this album more than most, but this version gave me even more appreciation. The difference to whatever version I had (I had the disc so imagine it was taken from the original CD), is night and day...
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For those that say "there's no point", there might not be any ARTISTIC point, but there is certainly a commercial or business point.
Personally, I'd like to hear it - even now - but I'm not wasting even one breath on it actually happening.
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On the other hand, i'd love ADTOE and DT to be remixed (maybe drums re-recorded).
Me too and maybe could this happen in future anniversary editions?
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An aggressive remix/remaster would be nice. I would like to hear a lot of their albums get that treatment, to be honest...
Not sure how I'd feel about a re-recording with the current iteration of the band, though. Maybe a compilation including live versions of the tracks.
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The Ytsejam Records live CD and DVD of When Dream And Day Reunite scratch this itch, and I rarely go back to their debut anyway, but when I do, I usually go for WDADR.
-Marc.
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For those that say "there's no point", there might not be any ARTISTIC point, but there is certainly a commercial or business point.
Personally, I'd like to hear it - even now - but I'm not wasting even one breath on it actually happening.
I mean…barely.
Sure they COULD pull a Taylor Swift and re-record the thing but we’re not exactly talking Taylor Swift records here. They would certainly make hundreds of dollars.
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How about re-recording WHEN DREAM AND DAY UNITE?
No.
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How about re-recording WHEN DREAM AND DAY UNITE?
No.
Exactly. This has been brought up several times, recently, and people need to realize that THE BAND has NO interest in doing this. Only TWO of the current members played on that album. When Dream and Day Re-Unite is a great alternative. Dead horse.
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For those that say "there's no point", there might not be any ARTISTIC point, but there is certainly a commercial or business point.
Personally, I'd like to hear it - even now - but I'm not wasting even one breath on it actually happening.
I mean…barely.
Sure they COULD pull a Taylor Swift and re-record the thing but we’re not exactly talking Taylor Swift records here. They would certainly make hundreds of dollars.
100 > 0
I wasn't making any quantitative judgment here, just noting that the "there's no point" is only one way of looking at it (and a subjective one at best).
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For the fans who were not introduced to DT with this album and for those who were, how cool would it be if this album was reworked and re-recorded? Should this be left alone as a classic or should these tunes be given a new chance with a modern day vibe and obviously an upgraded production? I personally would love it. Thoughts?
This gets raised every few months, and I can never understand why.
1. Why would ANY band who is 30+ years into its recording career want to go back and re-record a prior album?
2. Only 40% of the current band members were in the band when WDADU was released. Why would any of the other 60% want to do this?
3. They'd likely have to re-write a lot of the vocal lines to make them singable by JLB.
4. The only DT member who has ever shown the level of nostalgia needed to push something like this is MP, and he's (obviously) no longer in the band. JP doesn't seem particularly inclined to nostalgia, and JM doesn't say anything.
5. They basically DID re-record it when they did the When Dream and Day Reunite show in 2004 and subsequently released both a CD and a DVD.
For those that say "there's no point", there might not be any ARTISTIC point, but there is certainly a commercial or business point.
Would that point be to lose money because they need a tax write-off? I don't know...maybe they could do it profitably, but it's not like this would be particularly lucrative. No one outside of the die-hard DT fan community cares about this, and (if DTF is any indication) only a small minority really want this.
An aggressive remix/remaster would be nice.
Not sure what the value of a re-master would be, and a remix isn't possible because they don't have the original tapes (and, IIRC, the whereabouts of those tapes is unknown).
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Would that point be to lose money because they need a tax write-off? I don't know...maybe they could do it profitably, but it's not like this would be particularly lucrative. No one outside of the die-hard DT fan community cares about this, and (if DTF is any indication) only a small minority really want this.
I wasn't going that complicated. Maybe there's zero demand for this record and the songs on it, but there are numerous artists that have gone the "re-record" route in order to circumvent royalty payments, to have versions they can use without getting clearance/paying for it. Maybe it's not worth it from that perspective, but that's certainly not something we here can ascertain with the data we have.
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They can always tweak the WDARU Anniversary show by maybe re-recording some parts, but definitely a remix/remaster would be more plausible. I think this would be the current best scenario since it appears it will make it to the LNF Official Bootleg series.
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Even though this will never happen, I would love to hear it. I just can't get past the vocals, I've only listened to the album maybe once or twice.
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I've got WDADRU on DVD. That's good enough for me. :tup
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I've got WDADRU on DVD. That's good enough for me. :tup
Same
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That is a excellent performance on dvd! :metal
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Yeah, and Charlie was good too. I think his performance was elevated just by being there among the other band members. Probably an adrenaline rush. :eek
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I've got WDADRU on DVD. That's good enough for me. :tup
That is a excellent performance on dvd! :metal
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It was re-recorded. It's called When Dream and Day RE-Unite
That's the best it's going to be. JLB can't hit those notes anymore, not even in the studio, Rudess overplays Moore's parts, Mangini isn't Portnoy.
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It was re-recorded. It's called When Dream and Day RE-Unite
That's the best it's going to be. JLB can't hit those notes anymore, not even in the studio, Rudess overplays Moore's parts, Mangini isn't Portnoy.
I have the cd, it’s great. I know this would never happen (re-recording). I just love it and thought how cool would it be if they did it in the 90’s and even worked in a few Majesty demo tunes on it. As far as JLB’s vocal “decline”, that’s another story.
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(https://c.tenor.com/xIVna3QzuUIAAAAC/dr-evil-how-about-no.gif)
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(https://c.tenor.com/xIVna3QzuUIAAAAC/dr-evil-how-about-no.gif)
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1) Re-recording it as it was originally written? Heck no.
2) Re-recorded as they guys want to do it in 2021? Still no. I wouldn't begrudge them from choosing this option, but I'd have no interest in it.
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I’d personally be more interested in a re-recording of Raise the Knife, probably 1 step down and as a bonus track.
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1) Re-recording it as it was originally written? Heck no.
2) Re-recorded as they guys want to do it in 2021? Still no. I wouldn't begrudge them from choosing this option, but I'd have no interest in it.
How about re-recording it as the guys want to do it in 2021, but with different lyrics…and songs.
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1) Re-recording it as it was originally written? Heck no.
2) Re-recorded as they guys want to do it in 2021? Still no. I wouldn't begrudge them from choosing this option, but I'd have no interest in it.
How about re-recording it as the guys want to do it in 2021, but with different lyrics…and songs.
I think you did a flyby.
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It was re-recorded. It's called When Dream and Day RE-Unite
That's the best it's going to be. JLB can't hit those notes anymore, not even in the studio, Rudess overplays Moore's parts, Mangini isn't Portnoy.
I have the cd, it’s great. I know this would never happen (re-recording). I just love it and thought how cool would it be if they did it in the 90’s and even worked in a few Majesty demo tunes on it. As far as JLB’s vocal “decline”, that’s another story.
Don't get me wrong, if they re-recorded that album in 1992 or 1993, I would probably listen to that version way more than either original or 04 re-recording.
For example, I like the 94 version of To Live Forever over the 92 one. I put it on after listening to Awake (along with Eve) but I almost never listen to the 92 one. The 94 one sounds more fleshed out, like on JP's solo, and the production is preferable with this song, I think stylistically the song is closer to Awake than IaW. If they eventually squeezed it into a DT album after Awake, I probably wouldn't like that one as much. 92-94 DT is a magical era.
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We’ve got some other mostly great versions of these songs:
Fortune in Lies - Live at Marquee or Live at Luna Park
YtesJam - Once in a Livetime
The Killing Hand - Marquee obviously but I also love WDADRU arrangement
Afterlife - Score
Only a Matter of Time - Budokan
I guess for the other 3 it’s WDADRU only.
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For those that say "there's no point", there might not be any ARTISTIC point, but there is certainly a commercial or business point.
Personally, I'd like to hear it - even now - but I'm not wasting even one breath on it actually happening.
I mean…barely.
Sure they COULD pull a Taylor Swift and re-record the thing but we’re not exactly talking Taylor Swift records here. They would certainly make hundreds of dollars.
When I saw this, I just about died laughing. :rollin
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For those that say "there's no point", there might not be any ARTISTIC point, but there is certainly a commercial or business point.
Personally, I'd like to hear it - even now - but I'm not wasting even one breath on it actually happening.
I mean…barely.
Sure they COULD pull a Taylor Swift and re-record the thing but we’re not exactly talking Taylor Swift records here. They would certainly make hundreds of dollars.
When I saw this, I just about died laughing. :rollin
It reminded me of a Friends episode where Monica was telling her friends about filling in for someone as food critic for a (fictitious) local paper called the Chelsea Reporter. Ross responds with, "Wow! What an incredible opportunity to influence....dozens of people." :lol :lol
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We need a "what if [WDaDU song] was on [insert other DT album]?" type video series on youtube, like I've seen for Metallica. Someone dubs a JLB performance of the WDaDU song.
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We’ve got some other mostly great versions of these songs:
Fortune in Lies - Live at Marquee or Live at Luna Park
YtesJam - Once in a Livetime
The Killing Hand - Marquee obviously but I also love WDADRU arrangement
Afterlife - Score
Only a Matter of Time - Budokan
I guess for the other 3 it’s WDADRU only.
All great versions, and very much what I go to for my WDADU fill. Better production on these versions than the reunite show and James sounds phenomenal on the Marquee versions. I actually love the intro to the Killing Hand on the Marquee version. There’s also a good version of Status Seeker on the 93 Summerfest Milwaukee show which is available on Apple Music remastered. Sensational :metal
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It would be cool if they took an album worth of songs from the early days and redid them. Some of the demo versions like burning my soul are better than the album versions
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For those that say "there's no point", there might not be any ARTISTIC point, but there is certainly a commercial or business point.
Personally, I'd like to hear it - even now - but I'm not wasting even one breath on it actually happening.
This. I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat, were they to do it. But, I don't expect them to.
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As others have stated, we already have WDADRU. So there's really no point other than having the current state of DT do it, but it likely wouldn't be better in anything other than production. So to me, there's very little point.
Plus we have most of the songs on other various live albums. Maybe if this album was loved I can see a point to make some more money out of it, but it's not really a loved album overall by the fan base.
Pass. Rather the band focus on moving forward, not revisiting this not very good album IMO that they already released a more polished live performance of.
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A reason to re-record that hasn't been mentioned: to get the album on Spotify. Whoever owns the rights to the original apparently hasn't made it available for streaming.
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A reason to re-record that hasn't been mentioned: to get the album on Spotify. Whoever owns the rights to the original apparently hasn't made it available for streaming.
They might release WDADRU through the LNF archives and make it available for streaming. All of the LNF archives that so far have been released are available on digital platforms.
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A reason to re-record that hasn't been mentioned: to get the album on Spotify. Whoever owns the rights to the original apparently hasn't made it available for streaming.
That is, in part, to what I was referring when I said "commercial or business point". The control of the material is a real reason why artists do this (this is at least in large part why Def Leppard, Taylor Swift, and Kiss did it).
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I'd actually really like to hear this.
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A reason to re-record that hasn't been mentioned: to get the album on Spotify. Whoever owns the rights to the original apparently hasn't made it available for streaming.
https://open.spotify.com/album/1AznpOdGM8OcHYmqOUBXy3?si=YX3cyzGIQJmpAWw1wkjAlA&dl_branch=1
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I am happy for people who like WDADU but this is the album many fans leave alone and never play and usually ends up last on favorite album lists, with margin. Just saying from business point there's still a lot better decisions to make than remake that album for any reason. Sure they can get it on Spotify but it's still WDADU, not really a high demand. Remember that there's people to hire and work to do for any remake.
Edit: Wait what, it is on Spotify?! 🤔 So even less reason then.
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I don’t think its available in the US. I clicked on the link and while the album is there, I can’t play it. All songs are grayed out.
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I don’t think its available in the US. I clicked on the link and while the album is there, I can’t play it. All songs are grayed out.
Yeah, same here. I had searched Spotify before my post to make sure it hadn't been added in the meantime.
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Really strange... like I always say "if it's avaible in Brazil, I can only imagine it's already avaible in the rest of the world!".
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Really strange... like I always say "if it's avaible in Brazil, I can only imagine it's already avaible in the rest of the world!".
Same thing happens with the last two It Bites albums. They got re-issued and have a couple of additional tracks but I cant play them in the US.
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The only thing about this I wish we had James clean studio record of The Killing Hand in his prime time. LatM version of TKH is good though but still a studio recording with a great production would've been awesome.
I like WDADU for what it is and I really like how Charlie sounds on it.
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It's a legendary point in time.
I may have wanted to see it rerecorded for the first 5 years or so after James joined and Reunite pretty much satisfied any desire I had to revisit it. I sure wouldn't mind if they played the whole thing live again but I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it because it won't ever happen.
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I don't understand why some bands record their old stuff again. What's the point? Why not just spend the energy and time creating new music. I mean does somebody really prefer a re-recording of an old album over a brand new studio album. Or over a box set of jam sessions. The latter would take less time to conceive than a re-recording. Unless it's just a hasty live in studio kind of affair, but I'd still consider it a waste of time.
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I don't understand why some bands record their old stuff again. What's the point? Why not just spend the energy and time creating new music. I mean does somebody really prefer a re-recording of an old album over a brand new studio album. Or over a box set of jam sessions. The latter would take less time to conceive than a re-recording. Unless it's just a hasty live in studio kind of affair, but I'd still consider it a waste of time.
Occasionally, they do it to showcase a new singer, or improve an album's production. But, most of the time it seems to be to have a version of the album that the band, rather than the record label, owns.
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I don't understand why some bands record their old stuff again. What's the point? Why not just spend the energy and time creating new music. I mean does somebody really prefer a re-recording of an old album over a brand new studio album. Or over a box set of jam sessions. The latter would take less time to conceive than a re-recording. Unless it's just a hasty live in studio kind of affair, but I'd still consider it a waste of time.
I've actually given a handful of legit reasons, some business-related, some creatively focused.
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Journey did it after Arnel joined, and I actually found that to be pretty offensive under the circumstances.
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Journey did it after Arnel joined, and I actually found that to be pretty offensive under the circumstances.
Honestly, those re-recordings sucked. Never should have happened.
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Charlie isn't Steve Friggin' Perry, though. That analogy is a bit backward.
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I get the business side. That's why Kiss made the re-recordings - to be able to use the new versions in films/commercials/etc. That way all of the money goes to the current band.
But when bringing in a new vocalist, I'd say the better showcase is a new single/album.
Personally, I just don't understand why an artist would like to recreate something he/she has already done.
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Charlie isn't Steve Friggin' Perry, though. That analogy is a bit backward.
I wasn't making an analogy. I was providing an example.
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I am happy for people who like WDADU but this is the album many fans leave alone and never play and usually ends up last on favorite album lists, with margin. Just saying from business point there's still a lot better decisions to make than remake that album for any reason. Sure they can get it on Spotify but it's still WDADU, not really a high demand. Remember that there's people to hire and work to do for any remake.
Edit: Wait what, it is on Spotify?! 🤔 So even less reason then.
I think a great deal of this has to do with the fact we are so conditioned to James though, that many are unable to get past Charlie’s vocals and don’t really give the album a chance. Charlie does ok, but I will admit to not being a big fan of his tone and range. So I made a playlist version which has all the best live recordings of the songs with James (as well as including Another Won from Score), and I honestly think it’s a far better album than some of my bottom tier ones like Black Clouds, Systematic Chaos and even Octavarium bar the title track. It’s actually a great debut.
Selfishly - while unlikely - I’d love to see a clean studio version with James. But more than happy with my playlist version, or if a solid version of the Reunite show came out on the LNF archives :tup
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As I've said many times before, the problem with Charlie's vocals is that the songs are not written to his strengths at all. They are out of his range and call for a singing style he was simply not very good at back then. If you listen to any of his solo material, he sounds really good. I used to think he just wasn't a very good singer. But after hearing him on WDADRU, he sang lines on that that are more appropriate for his voice, and it made me realize that he can sound pretty good. And then I got two of his O2 albums, and he sounded great on those as well. It's all about writing vocal lines that play to the strength of the singer.
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As I've said many times before, the problem with Charlie's vocals is that the songs are not written to his strengths at all. They are out of his range and call for a singing style he was simply not very good at back then. If you listen to any of his solo material, he sounds really good. I used to think he just wasn't a very good singer. But after hearing him on WDADRU, he sang lines on that that are more appropriate for his voice, and it made me realize that he can sound pretty good. And then I got two of his O2 albums, and he sounded great on those as well. It's all about writing vocal lines that play to the strength of the singer.
Agreed. And this was obviously an issue highlighted by the band at the time, hence they looked for someone that did have the attributes they were after, so we end up with James, which was a great move. But absolutely, Charlie has some great work, they were songs that were just far from his strengths. It’s also a reason I mention making a playlist of the album with James’ best live performances of the songs - doing this definitely gave me a much greater appreciation for an underrated album, which may not always get a fair chance due to exactly the issues you mention… :tup
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As I've said many times before, the problem with Charlie's vocals is that the songs are not written to his strengths at all. They are out of his range and call for a singing style he was simply not very good at back then. If you listen to any of his solo material, he sounds really good. I used to think he just wasn't a very good singer. But after hearing him on WDADRU, he sang lines on that that are more appropriate for his voice, and it made me realize that he can sound pretty good. And then I got two of his O2 albums, and he sounded great on those as well. It's all about writing vocal lines that play to the strength of the singer.
Yes it's obvious. And Charlie is indeed a good singer, i also like his solo albums a lot. I noticed even from WDADU that some songs sounded so much better (like Status Seeker for example), and this was due to the range they were written for.
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Charlie isn't Steve Friggin' Perry, though. That analogy is a bit backward.
I wasn't making an analogy. I was providing an example.
No, I understand; "analogy" isn't the right word. I was just noting that it seems backwards. The "classic" Journey is Steve Perry, and the guy most people think of when thinking "Journey". That's not Charlie, that's LaBrie with DT. It's kind of the opposite thing.