DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: DTwwbwMP on August 02, 2021, 02:45:13 PM
-
This should be interesting, but please just let's all be nice. This is not by any means a slight to MM. Just a curiosity.
-
I'll bite, since I have no personal dog in this, but I think it's inevitable at some point. My feelings on it are completely tied to whether it precludes my three favorite Mike Portnoy projects: Transatlantic, Flying Colors and The Neal Morse Band. If it cuts down those bands' output, no thanks. If he can do it all, I'm in.
-
I don't know how many times Petrucci or mangini has said THIS is the Dream Theater lineup until the end and there's not really a chance of Portnoy coming back.
It's like - no matter how many times Noel Gallagher says oasis will 100% never reform as he could never go back to it and it's over. it's in the past . It's finished.
He was miserable in oasis and he's very happy in High Flying Birds.
Oasis fans are still like " nah it'll happen definitely. " and interviewers KEEP asking him and he ALWAYS says "not a chance".
-
MP re-joining would be the biggest news of both the prog and metal worlds.
It would increase the band's popularity and presence. It would be a good business decision for both parties.
Time also heals all wounds.
Better yet, MP rejoins, and MM stays, kind of an I Ron Maiden move, but with drums. I wouldn't oppose the idea, I think DT would be up to the task, and I could picture a killer album from it.
-
Since the question says "ever returns" which implies just playing a 1 one show. I voted 100% because it seems like he would certainly be there when the band performs their final show. If the question was more about being a full time member again, I'd say that's closer to 10-20%.
MP seems to be getting along much better with the members other than JLB so it really seems the door would be open for a special appearance. For him to become a DT member again would not only require MM to step down, but also for JLB to be good with it.
-
Can't believe we're beating this dead horse again.
I voted zero because that's the closest option, but I don't really think it's zero. It's certainly POSSIBLE that, if MM decides to leave of his own accord, MP might rejoin, but think the chances are minute at best.
The other thing to keep in mind is that, even if the other four band members and MP all wanted him to come back, they'd also have to agree on the terms. I doubt very much that any of the current members would want MP to come back with the same role and responsibilities that he previously had.
I don't know how many times Petrucci or mangini has said THIS is the Dream Theater lineup until the end and there's not really a chance of Portnoy coming back.
I'm not sure either one of them has EVER said that (or words to that effect). It wouldn't be MM's place to comment on that, and all I can remember JP saying is that the current lineup is the current lineup and it would be pointless to discuss future "what ifs."
-
I choose 25% even though I think it's much slimmer than that.
Maybe 5%.....
Coming back for a show or two... yeah I could see that but replacing Mangini...... slim chance. I think it's much more likeley that they audition another drummer instead.
-
I will vote for 3.3333%. Wait! That's not an option? OK nevermind then...
-
Never, thankfully.
-
I don't know how many times Petrucci or mangini has said THIS is the Dream Theater lineup until the end and there's not really a chance of Portnoy coming back.
I can't recall ever hearing either one of them say that, honestly.
As for the question, I don't really care either way. But I also feel it's inevitable at some point, and my only hope is that Mangini doesn't get fucked.
-
I'm sure if MM ever needs to be replaced (heaven forbid!) it will be with another monster inhuman drummer who's happy to play to a click for the entire show.
-
Can't believe we're beating this dead horse again.
I voted zero because that's the closest option, but I don't really think it's zero. It's certainly POSSIBLE that, if MM decides to leave of his own accord, MP might rejoin, but think the chances are minute at best.
The other thing to keep in mind is that, even if the other four band members and MP all wanted him to come back, they'd also have to agree on the terms. I doubt very much that any of the current members would want MP to come back with the same role and responsibilities that he previously had.
I don't know how many times Petrucci or mangini has said THIS is the Dream Theater lineup until the end and there's not really a chance of Portnoy coming back.
I'm not sure either one of them has EVER said that (or words to that effect). It wouldn't be MM's place to comment on that, and all I can remember JP saying is that the current lineup is the current lineup and it would be pointless to discuss future "what ifs."
I know John mentioned in 2011 that the current line up will not change. So that's that then.
-
Since the question says "ever returns" which implies just playing a 1 one show.
I don't see that implication. I'd put the chances of a one-off thing much higher than for an actual return to the band, but I don't think it's anything close to 100%.
-
I know John mentioned in 2011 that the current line up will not change. So that's that then.
Got link?
-
It was in a magazine right after MM joined the band. I remember thinking 'well if Mangini is saying there's zero chance of Portnoy returning then it must be true'...
But yeah they've all said it a few times over the years.
-----
I also can't see MP accepting to come back if MM quit - and only have a session drummers role. He'd want to do everything he did before.
-
Mangini is a very nice human being and I would never want to see a scenario where he was let go. If he decided to move to something different, or, if his health were an issue, I would love to see MP back in the band.
-
* - Mangini leaves DT for health reasons.
* - Portnoy waits by the phone.
* - Petrucci calls
* - " Hi Mike - as you know mangini left the band. "
* - " yes I heard. thank you for phoning me ! "
* - " No problem - just wanna ask.. Would you have any problem at all...
* - " Yes?!?!...."
* - " To us hiring Thomas Lang ?! "
-
Mangini is a very nice human being and I would never want to see a scenario where he was let go. If he decided to move to something different, or, if his health were an issue, I would love to see MP back in the band.
I'm the same. If for some reason MM moved on of his on accord, then it has to be MP coming back I would think.
-
Well, when you're new here and it's been nearly 11 years since MP left, you might want to consider that this subject has been beaten to death more than enough times. Way more actually. The only scenario I see having even the slightest of a remote possibility of MP's return would be if something happened to MM. Even then, it might not happen. As long as MM is fully capable (which he most certainly is), he'll continue to be the man behind the kit.
-
Considering MP left of his own volition, there's no way he could come back permanently short of MM leaving of his own accord. I doubt MM would leave for any reason other than health, so the best I think anyone could hope for would be some temporary reunion. Now, I love MM and didn't like that MP left DT, so I'm perfectly fine the way things are.
-
Can't believe we're beating this dead horse again.
I voted zero because that's the closest option, but I don't really think it's zero. It's certainly POSSIBLE that, if MM decides to leave of his own accord, MP might rejoin, but think the chances are minute at best.
The other thing to keep in mind is that, even if the other four band members and MP all wanted him to come back, they'd also have to agree on the terms. I doubt very much that any of the current members would want MP to come back with the same role and responsibilities that he previously had.
...and one of those stipulations would probably be that he would never play Mangini era songs. He has made some comments to that effect about understanding why Sherinian wouldn't want to play Rudess songs. John comes across as a pretty humble dude but I don't think he would ever be willing to erase a decade plus worth of material where he was the indisputable leader of the band.
But yeah, I feel there is a less than 10% chance it happens.
-
I give it a 50/50 shot.
JP or anyone else in the band saying "This is the DT lineup till the end," or whatever is completely irrelevant. What are they supposed to say, "Well, I am sure we will have to replace someone again at some point, but we'll have fun for now." :lol :lol
Mangini's frustration always seems so evident that it feels like it is a matter of time before he bails, and if/when that happens, I suspect Petrucci and Rudess will make a hard push to get Portnoy back, with LaBrie being the wild card.
As others have said, I doubt Petrucci and the others will let Portnoy come back and run the show like he did before, but I think Portnoy would so desperately want back in the band that he'd be okay with certain (not all) concessions to get back in.
-
Anything is possible. Never say never.
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/journey-rejoined-by-drummer-deen-castronovo/
-
8.5%.
-
100% that he joins for a show.
0% that he rejoins the band full time.
There is a very real and legal situation that I personally believe makes this fact.
The power dynamics in DT have changed. I would be willing to bet (but I could be wrong) that MM is not an equal partner in DT. In other words, he does not have the percentage of share in the business interests of Dream Theater that JP has…and most likely not as much as what MP once had either.
That being said, in order for MP to rejoin, he would have to either accept a smaller interest in the company that he grew from the beginning, or talk all the rest of the band into legally restructuring it back to the way it was with he and JP being the main drivers of the company.
I can’t imagine either of those two scenarios ever happening.
-
I don't know how many times Petrucci or mangini has said THIS is the Dream Theater lineup until the end and there's not really a chance of Portnoy coming back.
I can't recall ever hearing either one of them say that, honestly.
I don’t know if they have or not, but I do vividly recall them saying after Jordan joined and before MP left that if anyone ever left that would be the end of the band, so it doesn’t really matter what they say. Things change.
I feel pretty confident that at some point MP will do some sort of guest appearance at a special reunion concert or special release of some sort. Don’t know if he’ll ever join full time or not but wouldn’t say never.
-
I know we have a couple of lawyers here. I would be interested in hearing their take on what they believe the legal structure of the band would have to be in order for MP to return.
-
50%, but I can’t decide, between pros and cons, what I would prefer, really. I would welcome MP back because nostalgia, MP/JP/JR great chemistry and the fan within the band factor. But MM drumming impresses me more nowadays and I think DT still has the potential to stretch out musically more with him.
-
MP re-joining would be the biggest news of both the prog and metal worlds.
It would increase the band's popularity and presence. It would be a good business decision for both parties.
This is my feeling too. I really hope it happens at some point. IMO, the band hasn't been nearly of the same quality (on album or live wise) since MP decided to leave. But, like Stadler has mentioned, this cannot affect NMB or his other projects. I guess I want my cake and eat it too. I would say at best it's a 50-50 possibility.
-
Anytime the MP discussion returns I always think of his answer to this fan question from a 2009 interview, and I laugh because he literally quit a year later, acted like he was kicked out, and then certainly never sat in the audience for a DT show. :lol
Q: As you are the self-proclaimed number one Dream Theater fan, does it frustrate you that you will never be able to sit and enjoy a Dream Theater show in the same way millions of fans do?
A: Yeah, sometimes I wonder what it would be like to be in the audience or even to just hear what we sound like live. I mean, I’ve never heard my drums from the perspective of the audience. I guess the only way I could do that is if I quit the band or if I was to get kicked out of the band, and neither of those seem like options right now so I guess I’ll have to continue to enjoy Dream Theater from the other side of the stage.
(link: http://www.roadrunnerrecords.co.uk/2009/11/ask-the-artist-mike-portnoy-dream-theater-the-answers/)
-
For him to become a DT member again would not only require MM to step down, but also for JLB to be good with it.
Agreed on the Mangini point and I believe for MP to return as a full time member, MM would have to "step down". Something like his going back to teaching to be around his family more. The JLB point is less imo, because I think A) JP calls the shots & B) JLB "COULD" be replaced. He's not getting any younger.
-
The thing to keep in mind is that, even if the other four band members all wanted him to come back, they'd also have to agree on the terms. I doubt very much that any of the current members would want MP to come back with the same role and responsibilities that he previously had.
VERY valid point but I seriously doubt MP would even want those same roles & responsibilities within DT any longer. He's too busy outside of DT.
-
I will vote for 3.3333%. Wait! That's not an option? OK nevermind then...
:mehlin
-
Never, thankfully.
OUCH :omg:
Can I ask why you say that so forcefully? Just curious about all opinions.
-
I also can't see MP accepting to come back if MM quit - and only have a session drummers role. He'd want to do everything he did before.
COMPLETELY DISAGREE with this take but I respect your take!
-
Mangini is a very nice human being and I would never want to see a scenario where he was let go. If he decided to move to something different, or, if his health were an issue, I would love to see MP back in the band.
PERFECTLY said :tup
-
* - Mangini leaves DT for health reasons.
* - Portnoy waits by the phone.
* - Petrucci calls
* - " Hi Mike - as you know mangini left the band. "
* - " yes I heard. thank you for phoning me ! "
* - " No problem - just wanna ask.. Would you have any problem at all...
* - " Yes?!?!...."
* - " To us hiring Thomas Lang ?! "
Obviously for whatever reason you have an issue with MP. Stay classy please.
-
Well, when you're new here and it's been nearly 11 years since MP left, you might want to consider that this subject has been beaten to death more than enough times. Way more actually. The only scenario I see having even the slightest of a remote possibility of MP's return would be if something happened to MM. Even then, it might not happen. As long as MM is fully capable (which he most certainly is), he'll continue to be the man behind the kit.
Believe me, I'm not "new". Not by a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG shot! As others have said, time heals all wounds (well, obviously not) and I was just curious how members felt 10+ years on, that's all.
-
I give it a 50/50 shot.
JP or anyone else in the band saying "This is the DT lineup till the end," or whatever is completely irrelevant. What are they supposed to say, "Well, I am sure we will have to replace someone again at some point, but we'll have fun for now." :lol :lol
Mangini's frustration always seems so evident that it feels like it is a matter of time before he bails, and if/when that happens, I suspect Petrucci and Rudess will make a hard push to get Portnoy back, with LaBrie being the wild card.
As others have said, I doubt Petrucci and the others will let Portnoy come back and run the show like he did before, but I think Portnoy would so desperately want back in the band that he'd be okay with certain (not all) concessions to get back in.
Another very intelligent post. :tup
-
You know what, I never really was bothered when MP left and MM came in. As a guitarist, it didn't really bother me. I was just happy it worked out for the band. ADTOE and TA IMO were average (TA being horrible) yet the self titled would be a top 5 DT album for me. DOT was a great listen too.
However, as time goes on, my view has kind of changed. I've been watching some old clips and damn, with MP they were a special unit. Shows like Score and Budokan are just amazing and for me, there is just something missing with MM in there for me. I know that has nothing to do with this thread, but I've never really said that before, but as I was watching these clips I actually thought, 'If MP came back, I wouldn't be mad at all.' MM is a wonderful drummer and seems like a great fella, but I've just never really found much to like about him to be honest. He has just been the adequate fill in that can play these songs really well. Doesn't have that special something MP had.
-
You know what, I never really was bothered when MP left and MM came in. As a guitarist, it didn't really bother me. I was just happy it worked out for the band. ADTOE and TA IMO were average (TA being horrible) yet the self titled would be a top 5 DT album for me. DOT was a great listen too.
However, as time goes on, my view has kind of changed. I've been watching some old clips and damn, with MP they were a special unit. Shows like Score and Budokan are just amazing and for me, there is just something missing with MM in there for me. I know that has nothing to do with this thread, but I've never really said that before, but as I was watching these clips I actually thought, 'If MP came back, I wouldn't be mad at all.' MM is a wonderful drummer and seems like a great fella, but I've just never really found much to like about him to be honest. He has just been the adequate fill in that can play these songs really well. Doesn't have that special something MP had.
(https://miro.medium.com/max/1252/0*PCbE4DxTtuLBSZRC)
;D
-
I thought that when typing to be honest. :lol
-
I don't know about this new guy asking for a nice and "classy" discussion with a user name so obviously biased for MP who doesn't like answers that don't align with her/his bias but loves ones that do align with his/her bias.
Also, OP claims to be not new, but then s/he would know how much this topic has been hammered.
Kotowboy's joke was funny, which we all get, but cuz it's against MP OP thinks he's not being "classy".
Max's post wasn't forceful at all. No yelling or anything. Just a basic opinion.
My answer:
Full-time: 1%
Part-time: 0%
Special Occasion/Final Show: 100%
I think MP will definitely play with DT again in some capacity, most likely as a guest drummer at a special show.
As for returning full-time, there's just too many variables. The only way it might happen is if Mangini has to step away permanently. But then there's also the fractured relationship with James to consider and if James says "no way" would DT dump him to bring MP back. His relationship with JM seems to be better but we don't really know. We only really know everything is fine with JR and JP.
Also, would MP refuse to play any songs that DT wrote since he left?
If Mangini has to step away for, say, surgery, then I'd bet they'd bring in a temporary drummer who isn't MP until Mangini can play again cuz as soon as they go "MP will cover for MM until he's better" that would pretty much be the end for Mangini and really not fair nor nice at all.
I really don't see a full-time return happening.
-
I can't help but feel that this question being asked every few years is a bit disrespectful to MM. I know I'm reaching here, but I think a lot of people only see one side of this reunion (MP joining) & not the other (MM leaving), & I think that implies that his presence is just an absence of something else, rather than an actual contribution to the band. It's fine if you don't like him, but just say that instead of ignoring him.
If MP rejoins & MM leaves, fine, but I don't think the band are in a position where it needs to happen unless MM leaves of his own volition.
I voted 0%.
-
The OP is a riot. Attacking every answer he doesn’t agree with, even funny and well-reasoned ones.
JP was dead serious when he said this was the final iteration of the band, it wasn’t just ear candy.
OP, hope you’re paying attention: HE’S NOT COMING BACK. 0%.
-
I can't help but feel that this question being asked every few years is a bit disrespectful to MM. I know I'm reaching here, but I think a lot of people only see one side of this reunion (MP joining) & not the other (MM leaving), & I think that implies that his presence is just an absence of something else, rather than an actual contribution to the band. It's fine if you don't like him, but just say that instead of ignoring him.
If MP rejoins & MM leaves, fine, but I don't think the band are in a position where it needs to happen unless MM leaves of his own volition.
I voted 0%.
Same thing could be said about every reunion ever of any big band really. Happens all the time and 9 times out of 10 the replacement is the lower, just the nature of the business especially if you are stepping in to a well known name or band. There are exceptions of course like Bruce and Adrian returning for Maiden but Janick staying on, and of course what we are seeing with Helloween which is quite remarkable.
-
I think a better question would be: YOUR pct of chances that this thread will be locked? :lol
There's just no point of discussing this over and over again, specially if the OP is heavily biased.
Having said that, I'll share some of my thoughts:
- DT are about to release a new studio album, their 5th already with MM. That's more albums with Mangini than Moore, Sherinian and Dominici combined. There's a tour coming very soon too, so no MM quitting anytime soon. Continually bringing this up is disrespectful to MM.
- I think most of us love MP as a musician/drummer but can tell he definitely has some ego issues (sorry if this sounds disrespectful, that's not my intention here). There's NO WAY he would return to the band *HE* helped create, with *HIS* father naming the band, and not having his way of doing things again: no click track, no backing vocals/extra sounds being piped in, etc. This is completely different to playing on JP's album as a session drummer o reforming LTE where there was never another drummer attached to the band.
- IMO, MM will only be replaced if he leaves by his own will or if he has some health issues, which I hope never happens to any of the members.
- JLB and MP don't get along AT ALL, as James implied in a very recent interview when he was asked about MP reuniting with JP for his solo album. I know James gets a lot of hate too, but the rest of the band seem to be very happy with him. Would they risk losing half of their lineup (James and Mike M) just to bring Mike P back? Don't think so. Would most of the fanbase accept a new singer just because they ditched James? Not too sure either.
- Something I would LOVE to see happen, but don't really see happening, is DT doing something similar like Spock's Beard did for Snow Live in 2016. They played two special shows with their current lineup + Neal and Nick as a 7 piece band. They even played all together on a 20 minute epic released for their compilation album. Could current DT + let's say MP and Derek do something similar as a one-off thing, like they did Metropolis with Charlie on WDADR?
-
I can't help but feel that this question being asked every few years is a bit disrespectful to MM. I know I'm reaching here, but I think a lot of people only see one side of this reunion (MP joining) & not the other (MM leaving), & I think that implies that his presence is just an absence of something else, rather than an actual contribution to the band. It's fine if you don't like him, but just say that instead of ignoring him.
If MP rejoins & MM leaves, fine, but I don't think the band are in a position where it needs to happen unless MM leaves of his own volition.
I voted 0%.
Same thing could be said about every reunion ever of any big band really. Happens all the time and 9 times out of 10 the replacement is the lower, just the nature of the business especially if you are stepping in to a well known name or band. There are exceptions of course like Bruce and Adrian returning for Maiden but Janick staying on, and of course what we are seeing with Helloween which is quite remarkable.
I guess so. I think I'm just annoyed that the question comes up out of the blue like this, as if the band made a statement that seemed like they considering replacing him, or that MM's position in the band was in jeopardy just because he's MM & not MP. At that point I feel it'd be more transparent to just say "I don't like MM & I think MP coming back would be better", though that horse has long-since been beaten into the ground already.
-
I think a better question would be: YOUR pct of chances that this thread will be locked? :lol
:lol
-
For him to become a DT member again would not only require MM to step down, but also for JLB to be good with it.
Agreed on the Mangini point and I believe for MP to return as a full time member, MM would have to "step down". Something like his going back to teaching to be around his family more. The JLB point is less imo, because I think A) JP calls the shots & B) JLB "COULD" be replaced. He's not getting any younger.
JLB's recent struggles are pretty obvious, and I don't see his voice magically trending upward again given his age, but there is no way Petrucci would fire him. JLB has been a loyal and, by all accounts, great bandmate, and I do not think JP would do him like that.
-
For him to become a DT member again would not only require MM to step down, but also for JLB to be good with it.
Agreed on the Mangini point and I believe for MP to return as a full time member, MM would have to "step down". Something like his going back to teaching to be around his family more. The JLB point is less imo, because I think A) JP calls the shots & B) JLB "COULD" be replaced. He's not getting any younger.
JLB's recent struggles are pretty obvious, and I don't see his voice magically trending upward again given his age, but there is no way Petrucci would fire him. JLB has been a loyal and, by all accounts, great bandmate, and I do not think JP would do him like that.
And he's already been in the band longer and is in more albums than MP. This year marks James' 30th anniversary with the band + the release of his 14th studio album with them.
-
I can't help but feel that this question being asked every few years is a bit disrespectful to MM. I know I'm reaching here, but I think a lot of people only see one side of this reunion (MP joining) & not the other (MM leaving), & I think that implies that his presence is just an absence of something else, rather than an actual contribution to the band. It's fine if you don't like him, but just say that instead of ignoring him.
If MP rejoins & MM leaves, fine, but I don't think the band are in a position where it needs to happen unless MM leaves of his own volition.
I voted 0%.
Same thing could be said about every reunion ever of any big band really. Happens all the time and 9 times out of 10 the replacement is the lower, just the nature of the business especially if you are stepping in to a well known name or band. There are exceptions of course like Bruce and Adrian returning for Maiden but Janick staying on, and of course what we are seeing with Helloween which is quite remarkable.
I guess so. I think I'm just annoyed that the question comes up out of the blue like this, as if the band made a statement that seemed like they considering replacing him, or that MM's position in the band was in jeopardy just because he's MM & not MP. At that point I feel it'd be more transparent to just say "I don't like MM & I think MP coming back would be better", though that horse has long-since been beaten into the ground already.
I agree, even though I put my opinions out there, the question doesn't need to be asked. The band wouldn't think about it, so why should we.
-
How spectacular, an unprecedented discussion.
If anyone can shoot me in the head, I appreciate it.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
-
For him to become a DT member again would not only require MM to step down, but also for JLB to be good with it.
Agreed on the Mangini point and I believe for MP to return as a full time member, MM would have to "step down". Something like his going back to teaching to be around his family more. The JLB point is less imo, because I think A) JP calls the shots & B) JLB "COULD" be replaced. He's not getting any younger.
JLB's recent struggles are pretty obvious, and I don't see his voice magically trending upward again given his age, but there is no way Petrucci would fire him. JLB has been a loyal and, by all accounts, great bandmate, and I do not think JP would do him like that.
I agree. JP has always seemed to back his singer no matter what struggles he's had on the stage.
I hope moving forward, the band can just transition towards narrowing the choices of songs they play that cater to James. Might mean not playing some classics and even playing some more less favoured and deep cuts, but would make it a more positive show for James and the audience IMO.
-
How spectacular, an unprecedented discussion.
If anyone can shoot me in the head, I appreciate it.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
That escalated rather quickly.
-
You know what, I never really was bothered when MP left and MM came in. As a guitarist, it didn't really bother me. I was just happy it worked out for the band. ADTOE and TA IMO were average (TA being horrible) yet the self titled would be a top 5 DT album for me. DOT was a great listen too.
However, as time goes on, my view has kind of changed. I've been watching some old clips and damn, with MP they were a special unit. Shows like Score and Budokan are just amazing and for me, there is just something missing with MM in there for me. I know that has nothing to do with this thread, but I've never really said that before, but as I was watching these clips I actually thought, 'If MP came back, I wouldn't be mad at all.' MM is a wonderful drummer and seems like a great fella, but I've just never really found much to like about him to be honest. He has just been the adequate fill in that can play these songs really well. Doesn't have that special something MP had.
That's exactly it. Mangini is not Mike Portnoy. What people miss is Portnoy. Portnoy brings a different type of mindset with any project he does. This is due to MP's mindset not being the usual Musicians Mindset. Portnoy has a Fan mindset that he has kept since he first started Majesty with JP and JM. Being a Fan Mindset, one of his main concerns being a musician is to think "What would I as a fan of the band want?" and he gives us these things, in a way he kind of spoils us with these things.
And when he left, all this left with him. That fan mindset left the band. Introduced into the band is a mindset that is new and he knows his place within the band as the new guy, and I think he deserves full recognition as a full time member of Dream Theater. Mangini has a very different mindset than Portnoy, and he shows it through his discussions, the way he plays, and the things he does within the band. One thing he does is control what and how the click tracks each band member hears and how it goes.
What changed when Portnoy left was the Catering and Care that Portnoys Fan Mindset brought to us all. This left Dream Theater and now the band as an entity is not as fan catering as much anymore. And unfortunately no one else besides Portnoy has that mindset or concern and care for the fans in the same amount that Portnoy does for his fans.
I would not mind one bit if Portnoy came back to the band somehow. I would be disappointed if Mangini were to leave for whatever reason as I do enjoy his drumming. I doubt that will ever happen though, and if anything it would be a one-off type of show that would be a retirement farewell show.
-
You know what, I never really was bothered when MP left and MM came in. As a guitarist, it didn't really bother me. I was just happy it worked out for the band. ADTOE and TA IMO were average (TA being horrible) yet the self titled would be a top 5 DT album for me. DOT was a great listen too.
However, as time goes on, my view has kind of changed. I've been watching some old clips and damn, with MP they were a special unit. Shows like Score and Budokan are just amazing and for me, there is just something missing with MM in there for me. I know that has nothing to do with this thread, but I've never really said that before, but as I was watching these clips I actually thought, 'If MP came back, I wouldn't be mad at all.' MM is a wonderful drummer and seems like a great fella, but I've just never really found much to like about him to be honest. He has just been the adequate fill in that can play these songs really well. Doesn't have that special something MP had.
That's exactly it. Mangini is not Mike Portnoy. What people miss is Portnoy. Portnoy brings a different type of mindset with any project he does. This is due to MP's mindset not being the usual Musicians Mindset. Portnoy has a Fan mindset that he has kept since he first started Majesty with JP and JM. Being a Fan Mindset, one of his main concerns being a musician is to think "What would I as a fan of the band want?" and he gives us these things, in a way he kind of spoils us with these things.
And when he left, all this left with him. That fan mindset left the band. Introduced into the band is a mindset that is new and he knows his place within the band as the new guy, and I think he deserves full recognition as a full time member of Dream Theater. Mangini has a very different mindset than Portnoy, and he shows it through his discussions, the way he plays, and the things he does within the band. One thing he does is control what and how the click tracks each band member hears and how it goes.
What changed when Portnoy left was the Catering and Care that Portnoys Fan Mindset brought to us all. This left Dream Theater and now the band as an entity is not as fan catering as much anymore. And unfortunately no one else besides Portnoy has that mindset or concern and care for the fans in the same amount that Portnoy does for his fans.
I would not mind one bit if Portnoy came back to the band somehow. I would be disappointed if Mangini were to leave for whatever reason as I do enjoy his drumming. I doubt that will ever happen though, and if anything it would be a one-off type of show that would be a retirement farewell show.
I have never heard this before in relation to his 'mindset.' Has he said this before somewhere? I wouldn't say the band now don't have a mindset geared towards their fans though. I just meant more his character, attitude, stage presence and drumming in comparison to MM.
-
I can't help but feel that this question being asked every few years is a bit disrespectful to MM. I know I'm reaching here, but I think a lot of people only see one side of this reunion (MP joining) & not the other (MM leaving), & I think that implies that his presence is just an absence of something else, rather than an actual contribution to the band. It's fine if you don't like him, but just say that instead of ignoring him.
DTwwbwMP is’nt new as he spread out, but a member from the past (under a false/ new name). Obviously has some scars, as Portnoy has. Perhaps hoping to see opinions have changed, the points of view cristalyzed over time. He even said ‘time obviously does not heal all wounds” so there’s a lot of misery involved. Hoping for scenes from a memory.
I didn’t vote ‘cause it feels disrespectful to the man who was the best on earth to fill the void Portnoy left behind. Not only extremely talented, but much more easy in contact, less ego and far more willing to picture the sum of individuals, insteed of forcing own visions through. Portnoy was brilliant but I believe there’s more ballance and peace since he left.
-
I can't help but feel that this question being asked every few years is a bit disrespectful to MM. I know I'm reaching here, but I think a lot of people only see one side of this reunion (MP joining) & not the other (MM leaving), & I think that implies that his presence is just an absence of something else, rather than an actual contribution to the band. It's fine if you don't like him, but just say that instead of ignoring him.
DTwwbwMP is’nt new as he spread out, but a member from the past (under a false/ new name). Obviously has some scars, as Portnoy has. Perhaps hoping to see opinions have changed, the points of view cristalyzed over time. He even said ‘time obviously does not heal all wounds” so there’s a lot of misery involved. Hoping for scenes from a memory.
Well let's not try to psychoanalyse someone we don't know. I still don't agree with what they've said, but I'll leave it at that.
-
How spectacular, an unprecedented discussion.
If anyone can shoot me in the head, I appreciate it.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
That escalated rather quickly.
Geez, not what I was going for. For the record, I LOVE Mike Mangini. I guess sometimes curiosity can kill the cat.
-
Well let's not try to psychoanalyse someone we don't know. I still don't agree with what they've said, but I'll leave it at that.
Funny, with your nickname.
I don’t analyse him but sum up what he’ve said in his own posts.
-
Just some insight......
1) Been HUGE DT fan since 1992
2) I'm 61 years of age
3) Favorite band of all time is QUEEN
4) Favorite musician of all time IS Mike Portnoy
5) This thread was truly out of curiosity (10+ years on)
6) Have loved MM since the first time I saw him play ('93 w EXTREME) and was THRILLED when he was the chosen replacement
7) I'll admit, since MP left, the only album I've loved by DT was "A Dramatic Turn of Events" and have been less than thrilled with all the live shows (doesn't mean they weren't good. Just not GREAT as they had been.....in MY opinion)
8) Have seen EVERY DT tour (US) since 1992
9) I ABSOLUTELY have NO axe to grind (if I did I would have stayed away after my LONGGGGGGGG vacation)
10) If MP never comes back to DT I'm completely OK with that (I'm completely happy with everything he is doing away from DT)
-
Doesn't have that special something MP had.
When it comes right down to it, this is it for me. I've thought about it a lot over the years with each new album released since his departure. He was the secret sauce. The special ingredient. But I can respect the opinion of those who are happy he's no longer in the band.
Never say never, folks. Never say never.
-
I can't help but feel that this question being asked every few years is a bit disrespectful to MM. I know I'm reaching here, but I think a lot of people only see one side of this reunion (MP joining) & not the other (MM leaving), & I think that implies that his presence is just an absence of something else, rather than an actual contribution to the band. It's fine if you don't like him, but just say that instead of ignoring him.
If MP rejoins & MM leaves, fine, but I don't think the band are in a position where it needs to happen unless MM leaves of his own volition.
I voted 0%.
How does the last Kansas album fit into this? :P
-
Doesn't have that special something MP had.
When it comes right down to it, this is it for me. I've thought about it a lot over the years with each new album released since his departure. He was the secret sauce. The special ingredient. But I can respect the opinion of those who are happy he's no longer in the band.
Never say never, folks. Never say never.
I think I finally just realised that myself lately. Being more a Petrucci fanboy, I dismissed MP leaving as no big deal and would have minimal impact, but for me, after so many years, I think it is a pretty big deal and quite a void he's left behind. Also, no knock on MM, I've never had a bad thing to say about him.
-
At one time, I would’ve said 100% that he’d be back some day. The fact that he’s now done the Petrucci solo record and LTE and he’s still not back has given me some pause for thought. Also the fact that the reunion of JP, JR and MP in LTE didn’t seem to make that much of a splash, I wonder if his return to DT would really give them that much of a bump. I’m down to 50% and, after the slightly disappointing recent TA and LTE reunions, I’m ok if it doesn’t happen. Not saying those albums are bad at all, they just didn’t quite live up to my ridiculously excited expectations.
-
Doesn't have that special something MP had.
When it comes right down to it, this is it for me. I've thought about it a lot over the years with each new album released since his departure. He was the secret sauce. The special ingredient. But I can respect the opinion of those who are happy he's no longer in the band.
Never say never, folks. Never say never.
How do you feel about the last few albums released before his departure?
-
Sort of a side discussion, but JR was born in 1956. How many more album cycle and tours does he have in him? JLB's voice is getting more strained every year.
I think the most likely scenario is that DT calls it a day...hard to imagine but nothing lasts forever. This provides an opportunity for a peaceful dissolution where nobody gets fired and relationships stay in good standing.
MP and JP (and possibly JM) form a new band and get a new vocalist and keyboard player.
Or I could be totally wrong, which is probably the case :)
-
Sort of a side discussion, but JR was born in 1956. How many more album cycle and tours does he have in him? JLB's voice is getting more strained every year.
*shrug*
It's 10 years at least that people are considering Jordan's age. He has not the most physically demanding role in the band, and as far as the public can see, he's as passionate about his craft as ever.
Then maybe for all we know he's tired of the lifestyle and next year he will retire to a private life, but..... if he's happy (and all public / social media interaction, for what it's worth, point in that direction) and he doesn't have to drum for 3 hours each night, he could very well play and tour for at least another 10 years or more.
-
If Dream Theater decided to end - i can't see JP wanting to start a brand new band right away and start at the bottom again.
-
I'm more interested in Samoa Joes chances of beating Scott Steiner at Sacrifice, apparantly the numbers don't lie and they spell disaster: https://youtu.be/WFoC3TR5rzI
---
Beyond that, I think it's incredibly slim, both sets of musicians are happy where they are and that's great. The problem with any sort of reunion too is that even if they did it to satisfy the "They should do one show" crowd, that crowd will inevitably turn into "now do one tour, one album and rejoin"
-
Nothing's impossible, so I went with the Roth option. ;D
-
Sort of a side discussion, but JR was born in 1956. How many more album cycle and tours does he have in him? JLB's voice is getting more strained every year.
I think the most likely scenario is that DT calls it a day...hard to imagine but nothing lasts forever. This provides an opportunity for a peaceful dissolution where nobody gets fired and relationships stay in good standing.
MP and JP (and possibly JM) form a new band and get a new vocalist and keyboard player.
Or I could be totally wrong, which is probably the case :)
Man, Dino Jelusick can do both and is awesome at both.
B.Lee
Btw, you guys are bored, right? Call that discussion beating a dead horse...
-
0%. Portnoy would never betray his Del Fuvio brother Derek to join a band with cheesy breathy vocals and fake video games keyboard sounds.
-
0%. Portnoy would never betray his Del Fuvio brother Derek to join a band with cheesy breathy vocals and fake video games keyboard sounds.
:rollin
-
I don't know how many times Petrucci or mangini has said THIS is the Dream Theater lineup until the end and there's not really a chance of Portnoy coming back.
It's like - no matter how many times Noel Gallagher says oasis will 100% never reform as he could never go back to it and it's over. it's in the past . It's finished.
He was miserable in oasis and he's very happy in High Flying Birds.
Oasis fans are still like " nah it'll happen definitely. " and interviewers KEEP asking him and he ALWAYS says "not a chance".
Not to be a jerk, but a) what do you expect them to say ("Yeah, we're just waiting for Mangeen to leave so we can get Mike P. back in here, but he won't take the hint!"), and b) I don't believe Noel, either. They're blood. They (the Gallagher Bros.) WILL play together at some point, especially if it comes down to Mum.
-
I don't think he'll ever be back in Dream Theater, I could 100% see him joining them for a live show as a special guest or something.
-
You know what, I never really was bothered when MP left and MM came in. As a guitarist, it didn't really bother me. I was just happy it worked out for the band. ADTOE and TA IMO were average (TA being horrible) yet the self titled would be a top 5 DT album for me. DOT was a great listen too.
However, as time goes on, my view has kind of changed. I've been watching some old clips and damn, with MP they were a special unit. Shows like Score and Budokan are just amazing and for me, there is just something missing with MM in there for me. I know that has nothing to do with this thread, but I've never really said that before, but as I was watching these clips I actually thought, 'If MP came back, I wouldn't be mad at all.' MM is a wonderful drummer and seems like a great fella, but I've just never really found much to like about him to be honest. He has just been the adequate fill in that can play these songs really well. Doesn't have that special something MP had.
If it matters, that's exactly how I feel (the latter part). MM is (apparently, since I've never met him) a wonderful guy and a wonderful drummer, but it's not the same. I STILL watch every "Making Of..." doc for the TA/FC/NMB albums, just to watch Portnoy play even in practice, even in the studio. I can't explain it, it's just what I like. It just strikes a chord with me.
-
You know what, I never really was bothered when MP left and MM came in. As a guitarist, it didn't really bother me. I was just happy it worked out for the band. ADTOE and TA IMO were average (TA being horrible) yet the self titled would be a top 5 DT album for me. DOT was a great listen too.
However, as time goes on, my view has kind of changed. I've been watching some old clips and damn, with MP they were a special unit. Shows like Score and Budokan are just amazing and for me, there is just something missing with MM in there for me. I know that has nothing to do with this thread, but I've never really said that before, but as I was watching these clips I actually thought, 'If MP came back, I wouldn't be mad at all.' MM is a wonderful drummer and seems like a great fella, but I've just never really found much to like about him to be honest. He has just been the adequate fill in that can play these songs really well. Doesn't have that special something MP had.
If it matters, that's exactly how I feel (the latter part). MM is (apparently, since I've never met him) a wonderful guy and a wonderful drummer, but it's not the same. I STILL watch every "Making Of..." doc for the TA/FC/NMB albums, just to watch Portnoy play even in practice, even in the studio. I can't explain it, it's just what I like. It just strikes a chord with me.
I could be thinking too much into it, but current DT feels like a awesome band. Old DT felt like a bunch of childhood buddies who happened to be some of the best in the world on their instruments. It comes through on stage.
-
I can't help but feel that this question being asked every few years is a bit disrespectful to MM. I know I'm reaching here, but I think a lot of people only see one side of this reunion (MP joining) & not the other (MM leaving), & I think that implies that his presence is just an absence of something else, rather than an actual contribution to the band. It's fine if you don't like him, but just say that instead of ignoring him.
I don't think this is true at all. I know I have my preference - I've stated it - and there is not a SHRED of disrespect for Mike Mangini in any of it. And if asked I would state my position to him face-to-face. It's part of the gig. You don't replace a founding member like that without some acknowledgement that the discussion is going to be had. The list of people in that position - Dio (twice), Nielson, Morse, Bayley, Hagar, Thayer, Singer, Davison, Howe, Hogarth, Powell, Belew, Wilson - is as long as my arm, and it's INEVITABLE that the question would arise. I think it's denying reality to expect otherwise (not saying you are doing that). Now, HOW you answer may be a different matter, but just asking the question is not in and of itself disrespectful.
I think it's a mistake, generally, to view these things in such a binary light. I LOVE Sammy Hagar. I have (almost) all his solo stuff, and greatly look forward to his new work with The Circle. Love the guy, love the musician. Saw him in a little club with Chickenfoot and it was amazing. Having said that, when I think Van Halen, I think "Dave Roth". That doesn't minimize my feelings for Hagar even one iota. We're ALLOWED to have two different, sometimes competing, feelings.
-
* - Mangini leaves DT for health reasons.
* - Portnoy waits by the phone.
* - Petrucci calls
* - " Hi Mike - as you know mangini left the band. "
* - " yes I heard. thank you for phoning me ! "
* - " No problem - just wanna ask.. Would you have any problem at all...
* - " Yes?!?!...."
* - " To us hiring Thomas Lang ?! "
Just reading through this thread and this gave me a good laugh.
-
0%. Portnoy would never betray his Del Fuvio brother Derek to join a band with cheesy breathy vocals and fake video games keyboard sounds.
:rollin
Sort of a side discussion, but JR was born in 1956. How many more album cycle and tours does he have in him? JLB's voice is getting more strained every year.
I wonder if this was taken into account when they decided to tour with an opener this year. I got to imagine it helps their health and bodies to not play such long sets every night.
-
Given that Sons of Apollo is there to satiate MP's need for playing progressive metal and LTE provides an outlet for MP wanting to play with some of his DT bandmates, plus how he seems to have a fairly sizable amount of input within his different projects... there would be absolutely no feasible chance of MP coming back. I've seen some comments suggesting that MM might be frustrated with his position in the band, but honestly that feels like an issue of confirmation bias. Sure, he's expressed dissatisfaction with certain aspects, but he seems as passionate as ever and by all accounts, is actually more integrated than before. I've said this before, but I'm pretty sure that with each year that's gone by since MP's departure, the chances of him coming back diminish. This lineup will soon be the longest running one in DT's history and I'd also wager that it's the most stable, with drama seeimingly kept to a minimum. I'm actually surprised people are suggesting that MP would come back for a one-off show as well. I feel like it'd be tokenistic at best.
This also isn't the same thing as an Iron Maiden or Judas Priest esque situation in regards to their singer shifts because let's face it, even though much of DT's fanbase to appear to be people who notice the difference between the drummers, the amount of people who it's a dealbreaker for doesn't seem to me to be a drastic amount. What with 6.7 million views (not to mention 8 million streams on Spotify) for a track like Untethered Angel and Distance Over Time being the best charting DT album (not to mention the only two Grammy nominations being for songs in the MM era)... I don't think getting MP back would be quite the shrewd business move that some are making it out to be. If interest in the band absolutely tanked during the MM era then maybe I could see it happening, but it didn't.
-
Well, when you're new here and it's been nearly 11 years since MP left, you might want to consider that this subject has been beaten to death more than enough times. Way more actually. The only scenario I see having even the slightest of a remote possibility of MP's return would be if something happened to MM. Even then, it might not happen. As long as MM is fully capable (which he most certainly is), he'll continue to be the man behind the kit.
Believe me, I'm not "new". Not by a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG shot! As others have said, time heals all wounds (well, obviously not) and I was just curious how members felt 10+ years on, that's all.
It's obvious you're new here. With less than a 100 posts and for some reason can't put multiple quotes into one post. Noob.
-
Well, when you're new here and it's been nearly 11 years since MP left, you might want to consider that this subject has been beaten to death more than enough times. Way more actually. The only scenario I see having even the slightest of a remote possibility of MP's return would be if something happened to MM. Even then, it might not happen. As long as MM is fully capable (which he most certainly is), he'll continue to be the man behind the kit.
Believe me, I'm not "new". Not by a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG shot!
You literally registered your account 5 days ago. :lol
-
Well, when you're new here and it's been nearly 11 years since MP left, you might want to consider that this subject has been beaten to death more than enough times. Way more actually. The only scenario I see having even the slightest of a remote possibility of MP's return would be if something happened to MM. Even then, it might not happen. As long as MM is fully capable (which he most certainly is), he'll continue to be the man behind the kit.
Believe me, I'm not "new". Not by a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG shot!
You literally registered your account 5 days ago. :lol
I have 234,671 posts; I can register a new account this afternoon if I wanted to. Doesn't make me "new" here.
-
Well, when you're new here and it's been nearly 11 years since MP left, you might want to consider that this subject has been beaten to death more than enough times. Way more actually. The only scenario I see having even the slightest of a remote possibility of MP's return would be if something happened to MM. Even then, it might not happen. As long as MM is fully capable (which he most certainly is), he'll continue to be the man behind the kit.
Believe me, I'm not "new". Not by a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG shot!
You literally registered your account 5 days ago. :lol
I have 234,671 posts; I can register a new account this afternoon if I wanted to. Doesn't make me "new" here.
Good point.
-
This also isn't the same thing as an Iron Maiden or Judas Priest esque situation in regards to their singer shifts because let's face it, even though much of DT's fanbase to appear to be people who notice the difference between the drummers, the amount of people who it's a dealbreaker for doesn't seem to me to be a drastic amount. What with 6.7 million views (not to mention 8 million streams on Spotify) for a track like Untethered Angel and Distance Over Time being the best charting DT album (not to mention the only two Grammy nominations being for songs in the MM era)... I don't think getting MP back would be quite the shrewd business move that some are making it out to be. If interest in the band absolutely tanked during the MM era then maybe I could see it happening, but it didn't.
I agree with all of this, no disrespect to Portnoy and his legacy with the band, but his eventual return would be nowhere near the other big reunions involving singers. It's 20 years that I follow DT and they always play the same venue (that Iron Maiden sell out in a day), sometimes there's more people, sometimes less, but there's never been a dramatic drop in attendance. DT's fanbase is that one, give or take, and Portony's return wouldn't be a...... paradigm shift. It would surely have a positive effect, but come on, it wouldn't be nowhere near Bruce or Rob's returns, or even half of that.
-
Well, when you're new here and it's been nearly 11 years since MP left, you might want to consider that this subject has been beaten to death more than enough times. Way more actually. The only scenario I see having even the slightest of a remote possibility of MP's return would be if something happened to MM. Even then, it might not happen. As long as MM is fully capable (which he most certainly is), he'll continue to be the man behind the kit.
Believe me, I'm not "new". Not by a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG shot!
You literally registered your account 5 days ago. :lol
I have 234,671 posts; I can register a new account this afternoon if I wanted to. Doesn't make me "new" here.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?action=profile;u=12367
-
Well, when you're new here and it's been nearly 11 years since MP left, you might want to consider that this subject has been beaten to death more than enough times. Way more actually. The only scenario I see having even the slightest of a remote possibility of MP's return would be if something happened to MM. Even then, it might not happen. As long as MM is fully capable (which he most certainly is), he'll continue to be the man behind the kit.
Believe me, I'm not "new". Not by a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG shot!
You literally registered your account 5 days ago. :lol
I have 234,671 posts; I can register a new account this afternoon if I wanted to. Doesn't make me "new" here.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?action=profile;u=12367
:rollin
-
I'm actually surprised people are suggesting that MP would come back for a one-off show as well. I feel like it'd be tokenistic at best.
Why would this be surprising? He seems to be in good personal relationships with the band and he himself was big on getting past DT members to perform with the band previously. I could totally see the band bringing him back to play like Metropolis at the final DT show for example. I kind of doubt they'd do a full show with him, but I could see similar with Charlie and Derek as well. It seems totally within the realm of what the band has done in the past.
-
Well, when you're new here and it's been nearly 11 years since MP left, you might want to consider that this subject has been beaten to death more than enough times. Way more actually. The only scenario I see having even the slightest of a remote possibility of MP's return would be if something happened to MM. Even then, it might not happen. As long as MM is fully capable (which he most certainly is), he'll continue to be the man behind the kit.
Believe me, I'm not "new". Not by a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG shot!
You literally registered your account 5 days ago. :lol
I have 234,671 posts; I can register a new account this afternoon if I wanted to. Doesn't make me "new" here.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?action=profile;u=12367
:rollin
-
Imposter!!!! :) :) :)
-
Why would this be surprising? He seems to be in good personal relationships with the band and he himself was big on getting past DT members to perform with the band previously. I could totally see the band bringing him back to play like Metropolis at the final DT show for example. I kind of doubt they'd do a full show with him, but I could see similar with Charlie and Derek as well. It seems totally within the realm of what the band has done in the past.
Somewhat ironically, I can only really see it as the kind of thing MP would do himself if he was still in the band. I also somewhat doubt that the logistics would make it worth doing. I feel like it's easier to get another keyboard or microphone on stage than it is an entire drum kit... which, mind you, is massive for both MM and MP. Plus, even this I feel is a bit of a slap in the face to Mike Mangini if one of the main attactions of the show (and presumably the bookending of DT's legacy) is a drummer who's no longer in the band. I think MM deserves to have the proverbial final word on that if he ends up being the last drummer the band has.
-
What we really need is for LTE to open for DT on the next tour. Everybody wins.
-
What we really need is for LTE to open for DT on the next tour. Everybody wins.
Except JLB...lol
B.Lee
-
Can't believe we're beating this dead horse again.
I voted zero because that's the closest option, but I don't really think it's zero. It's certainly POSSIBLE that, if MM decides to leave of his own accord, MP might rejoin, but think the chances are minute at best.
The other thing to keep in mind is that, even if the other four band members and MP all wanted him to come back, they'd also have to agree on the terms. I doubt very much that any of the current members would want MP to come back with the same role and responsibilities that he previously had.
...and one of those stipulations would probably be that he would never play Mangini era songs. He has made some comments to that effect about understanding why Sherinian wouldn't want to play Rudess songs. John comes across as a pretty humble dude but I don't think he would ever be willing to erase a decade plus worth of material where he was the indisputable leader of the band.
But yeah, I feel there is a less than 10% chance it happens.
If, in fact, the other four guys wanted him back and he wanted to come back but only with a stipulation that he not play MM-era songs, then he'll NEVER come back. No way in hell would the other four guys agree to that. It's not like DT is Maiden or Priest, where the singer left shortly after the band's peak and was only gone for two albums. There will be at least 5 albums and 15 years, which is a full third of the band's career. No way; no how.
-
No disrespect to Portnoy but hopefully never.
-
This lineup will soon be the longest running one in DT's history and I'd also wager that it's the most stable, with drama seeimingly kept to a minimum.
I never thought of it this way. The previous lineup lasted about 11 years and this lineup is coming up on the 11 year mark.
-
Well, when you're new here and it's been nearly 11 years since MP left, you might want to consider that this subject has been beaten to death more than enough times. Way more actually. The only scenario I see having even the slightest of a remote possibility of MP's return would be if something happened to MM. Even then, it might not happen. As long as MM is fully capable (which he most certainly is), he'll continue to be the man behind the kit.
Believe me, I'm not "new". Not by a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG shot!
You literally registered your account 5 days ago. :lol
I have 234,671 posts; I can register a new account this afternoon if I wanted to. Doesn't make me "new" here.
:tup
-
Well, when you're new here and it's been nearly 11 years since MP left, you might want to consider that this subject has been beaten to death more than enough times. Way more actually. The only scenario I see having even the slightest of a remote possibility of MP's return would be if something happened to MM. Even then, it might not happen. As long as MM is fully capable (which he most certainly is), he'll continue to be the man behind the kit.
Believe me, I'm not "new". Not by a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG shot!
You literally registered your account 5 days ago. :lol
I have 234,671 posts; I can register a new account this afternoon if I wanted to. Doesn't make me "new" here.
The question is not whether it is possible to do this, but why? Why create a new account to come brandishing the MP flag in a new DT cycle?
It's pathetic. But it's been "DT world" for more then ten years....
-
What we really need is for LTE to open for DT on the next tour. Everybody wins.
Except JLB...lol
B.Lee
He doesn’t have to be in a band with MP. For him, that’s probably a win.
-
I'm actually surprised people are suggesting that MP would come back for a one-off show as well. I feel like it'd be tokenistic at best.
Why would this be surprising? He seems to be in good personal relationships with the band and he himself was big on getting past DT members to perform with the band previously. I could totally see the band bringing him back to play like Metropolis at the final DT show for example. I kind of doubt they'd do a full show with him, but I could see similar with Charlie and Derek as well. It seems totally within the realm of what the band has done in the past.
It’s a little different with Charlie and Derek as they only did short stints in the band. Mike is a founder member and, in his time there, he was the driving force of the band, he never wanted DT to exist without him.
-
What we really need is for LTE to open for DT on the next tour. Everybody wins.
Except JLB...lol
B.Lee
Would JLB stand behind the back line for the LTE set too? Or just most of the DT set? I KID! I KID!
(I really do kid; I'm a JLB fan, he's why I FIRST got into the band and I can't imagine liking DT without James singing.)
-
JLB can chat with JM during the LTE set, if that's possible.
-
JLB and MP don't get along AT ALL, as James implied in a very recent interview when he was asked about MP reuniting with JP for his solo album.
Link?
-
Anything’s possible. It’s hard for me to believe that JP and the guys would ever tell Mangini to hit the road and bring Portnoy back in. But then again, prior to 2010 I wouldn’t have believed that Portnoy would leave.
-
I could see him coming out for a song or two at a special show (40th anniversary) but rejoining full time.... I don't see that happening.
-
I don't think it's impossible for it to happen, but I hope it never does. Other than WDADU and I&W, I never feel the desire to listen to MP-era Dream Theater. After all, Mangini is the reason why I started listening to the band (and Portnoy, well, let's say he's my least favourite drummer ever).
Also, I have seen the same thing mentioned every time the topic is brought up, but there's no conceivable way Portnoy and Mangini could play together without it sounding like pure cacophony; their styles and approaches to drumming are polar opposites.
-
At one time, I would’ve said 100% that he’d be back some day. The fact that he’s now done the Petrucci solo record and LTE and he’s still not back has given me some pause for thought. Also the fact that the reunion of JP, JR and MP in LTE didn’t seem to make that much of a splash, I wonder if his return to DT would really give them that much of a bump. I’m down to 50% and, after the slightly disappointing recent TA and LTE reunions, I’m ok if it doesn’t happen. Not saying those albums are bad at all, they just didn’t quite live up to my ridiculously excited expectations.
LTE and JP solo are not DT. Fans of the band have expressed little interest in instrumental music in general, so I don't think you can judge how big MP's return would be based on his reunion with JP for his solo album and JP and JR for LTE3.
-
I could already hear the clicking sound of this thread getting locked ….
-
As a 'one-off,' I'd say 100%.
As a full-time member, I'd drop the odds back to 50/50.
It's JP's band now, and the dynamic him and MP had may no longer be possible, especially given all the time that has passed. Would either of them be interested in a new power dynamic, one where JP is possibly in the driver's seat?
Even if it looked good on paper, I suspect there'd be massive growing pains if he returned.
-
At one time, I would’ve said 100% that he’d be back some day. The fact that he’s now done the Petrucci solo record and LTE and he’s still not back has given me some pause for thought. Also the fact that the reunion of JP, JR and MP in LTE didn’t seem to make that much of a splash, I wonder if his return to DT would really give them that much of a bump. I’m down to 50% and, after the slightly disappointing recent TA and LTE reunions, I’m ok if it doesn’t happen. Not saying those albums are bad at all, they just didn’t quite live up to my ridiculously excited expectations.
LTE and JP solo are not DT. Fans of the band have expressed little interest in instrumental music in general, so I don't think you can judge how big MP's return would be based on his reunion with JP for his solo album and JP and JR for LTE3.
You're right, different things.
But Peter made an interesting point. The news that MP would play on JP's new solo album and LTE's return caused more excitement than the albums themselves. It seems like people wanted to know that MP and JP were working together, but they weren't all that interested in actually listening to the music made.
And this is especially notable in the case of LTE. The return of LTE seemed much more bombastic in the DT discussion groups than it actually was.
-
At one time, I would’ve said 100% that he’d be back some day. The fact that he’s now done the Petrucci solo record and LTE and he’s still not back has given me some pause for thought. Also the fact that the reunion of JP, JR and MP in LTE didn’t seem to make that much of a splash, I wonder if his return to DT would really give them that much of a bump. I’m down to 50% and, after the slightly disappointing recent TA and LTE reunions, I’m ok if it doesn’t happen. Not saying those albums are bad at all, they just didn’t quite live up to my ridiculously excited expectations.
LTE and JP solo are not DT. Fans of the band have expressed little interest in instrumental music in general, so I don't think you can judge how big MP's return would be based on his reunion with JP for his solo album and JP and JR for LTE3.
I’m not suggesting LTE is DT (although it’s pretty close!) and I know instrumental music is not as big of a draw. I just thought it might’ve made a bigger impact than it did. I’m talking LTE3 in particular here, the JP solo record actually felt like it did ok and I really enjoyed it. It felt like the best JP has sounded in a long time and the same for MP. LTE was a bit of a damp squib though imo, it’s perfectly fine but just felt like a bit of a tired lesser version of the other two albums. It in no way got me pumped for a MP Dream Theater album and didn’t seem to generate any fan momentum demanding MP’s return.
-
Well, when you're new here and it's been nearly 11 years since MP left, you might want to consider that this subject has been beaten to death more than enough times. Way more actually. The only scenario I see having even the slightest of a remote possibility of MP's return would be if something happened to MM. Even then, it might not happen. As long as MM is fully capable (which he most certainly is), he'll continue to be the man behind the kit.
Believe me, I'm not "new". Not by a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG shot!
You literally registered your account 5 days ago. :lol
I have 234,671 posts; I can register a new account this afternoon if I wanted to. Doesn't make me "new" here.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?action=profile;u=12367
The avatar makes this what it is!
-
Portnoy's return would likely be a pebble in the ocean, not a big splash in the lake. I think some of your overestimating his drawing power. Go back and look at the shitholes Sons of Apollo played on their first tour. That never happens if Portnoy was as big of a draw as some are implying. Not saying there aren't fans who are less likely to go to shows now who would be more likely to go if he was back, but it's most likely a pretty small percentage.
Not like DT is Led Zeppelin or the Rolling Stones, but the Dream Theater brand name is much bigger than any one man who is in the band or has been in the band. The brand name is what helps sell tickets.
-
Portnoy's return would likely be a pebble in the ocean, not a big splash in the lake. I think some of your overestimating his drawing power. Go back and look at the shitholes Sons of Apollo played on their first tour. That never happens if Portnoy was as big of a draw as some are implying. Not saying there aren't fans who are less likely to go to shows now who would be more likely to go if he was back, but it's most likely a pretty small percentage.
Not like DT is Led Zeppelin or the Rolling Stones, but the Dream Theater brand name is much bigger than any one man who is in the band or has been in the band. The brand name is what helps sell tickets.
Agree, it means nothing and won't cause any mass new wave of interest for the band. It's only us long term die hard fans that have an opinion on the subject, the masses wouldn't probably even know. That's why the band will never do it. They are rolling fine, and there's not reason to bring up bad blood again potentially for minimal gain.
-
Portnoy's return would likely be a pebble in the ocean, not a big splash in the lake. I think some of your overestimating his drawing power. Go back and look at the shitholes Sons of Apollo played on their first tour. That never happens if Portnoy was as big of a draw as some are implying. Not saying there aren't fans who are less likely to go to shows now who would be more likely to go if he was back, but it's most likely a pretty small percentage.
Not like DT is Led Zeppelin or the Rolling Stones, but the Dream Theater brand name is much bigger than any one man who is in the band or has been in the band. The brand name is what helps sell tickets.
Agree, it means nothing and won't cause any mass new wave of interest for the band. It's only us long term die hard fans that have an opinion on the subject, the masses wouldn't probably even know. That's why the band will never do it. They are rolling fine, and there's not reason to bring up bad blood again potentially for minimal gain.
My thoughts as well. All written more precisely and eloquently than I would be able to.
-
JLB and MP don't get along AT ALL, as James implied in a very recent interview when he was asked about MP reuniting with JP for his solo album.
Link?
It was originally linked in the Terminal Velocity thread, but a quick google search gave me this: https://mariskalrock.com/actualidad/dream-theater-la-enemistad-entre-james-labrie-y-mike-portnoy-que-se-extrae-de-las-palabras-del-cantante/
Apparently, it was an interview for a Spanish magazine, so it's in Spanish, but I can translate/paraphrase what James said. He was asked his opinion about John working with Mike again for TV, and he answered:
When we do solo albums it's different than the band. It's up to John to choose who he wants to work with, just like it's up to me to choose who I want to work with on mine. John knows the kind of relationship Mike and I have, he is aware of it, but at the same time it's up to him to choose who he wants to play with in his album.
I'm sure it was properly linked in the Terminal Velocity thread if you want to search for it.
-
Portnoy's return would likely be a pebble in the ocean, not a big splash in the lake. I think some of your overestimating his drawing power. Go back and look at the shitholes Sons of Apollo played on their first tour. That never happens if Portnoy was as big of a draw as some are implying. Not saying there aren't fans who are less likely to go to shows now who would be more likely to go if he was back, but it's most likely a pretty small percentage.
Not like DT is Led Zeppelin or the Rolling Stones, but the Dream Theater brand name is much bigger than any one man who is in the band or has been in the band. The brand name is what helps sell tickets.
Agree with all of this :tup
-
Portnoy's return would likely be a pebble in the ocean, not a big splash in the lake. I think some of your overestimating his drawing power. Go back and look at the shitholes Sons of Apollo played on their first tour. That never happens if Portnoy was as big of a draw as some are implying. Not saying there aren't fans who are less likely to go to shows now who would be more likely to go if he was back, but it's most likely a pretty small percentage.
Not like DT is Led Zeppelin or the Rolling Stones, but the Dream Theater brand name is much bigger than any one man who is in the band or has been in the band. The brand name is what helps sell tickets.
You're underestimating how much people loves nostalgia nowadays. Still, you're not too far off. Maybe not a pebble but surely a stone. Look at GNR with only Axl. At his peak he was playing 10k plus a night while Slash was playing anywhere from a couple thousand to the high hundreds. Throw the two of them together and they're selling out stadiums. Of course, Duff is probably responsible for dozens of those tickets too.
DT is no GNR though but without a doubt you would see a significant bump in tickets...for a tour. And significant, in relative terms, would be maybe a couple hundred more per night. Maybe even a thousand in a few markets. Next tour, you'd be back down to current levels.
Would that be worth the hassle to DT? Doubtful.
Anybody follow Sepultura? They have received so many offers to reunite with Max Cavalera and Igor. Andreas and Paulo have no interest despite the breakup not being nearly as bad as most bands and despite Sepultura playing small clubs. Their M&G package is only 50 bucks. Their vocalist doesn't get a lot of acclaim so many people are like, "Why are you so loyal to that guy?" Sidenote: I actually like Derrick Green MORE than Max and think he upped the lyricals and vocal qualities by A LOT...minority opinion though. A Sepultura reunion would increase tickets sale for them by a HUGE percentage, more than DT and yet, Andreas is like, "Nah."
Once you make a certain amount of money, to some people, any more is trivial.
-
But was there a significant drop in financial terms after MP's departure? I honestly can't answer that.
It's not like Iron Maiden that from a giant band started playing in much smaller venues with Blaze.
-
But was there a significant drop in financial terms after MP's departure? I honestly can't answer that.
I doubt it. If anything, I think it causes a spike in their popularity.
It's not like Iron Maiden that from a giant band started playing in much smaller venues with Blaze.
Exactly.
-
But was there a significant drop in financial terms after MP's departure? I honestly can't answer that.
As far as immediately afterwards, I doubt it. They had an album in the Top 10, a successful world tour and a live film that played in movie theaters. Seems pretty good.
-
I'm completely content with MM being in DT. It is likely that JLB has a lot more creative freedom with his approach to the vocal parts. While I absolutely love MP's drumming, I would think that MM is better for the overall morale for the band.
If I could meet either one, I'd go with MM. I'm confident that it would be a more positive and memorable experience..
-
While I think it's pretty much inevitable that he will join them onstage for a one-off performance at some point, I ended up voting the 25% Roth option for MP to return permanently. At this point in time, I don't see it happening for all the reasons already mentioned (level of authority MP would be given, MM would have to leave of his own volition, conflict with JL, etc), but never say never. I will say that *if* he was to return, I imagine that MP *would* be willing to play MM-era songs. There'd probably only be one or two in any given setlist, but I don't think he would completely disavow that part of the catalog.
I have never heard this before in relation to his 'mindset.' Has he said this before somewhere? I wouldn't say the band now don't have a mindset geared towards their fans though. I just meant more his character, attitude, stage presence and drumming in comparison to MM.
MP has always stated that he looks at things from a fan's standpoint. That's why he did all the extras that he did (official boots, rotating setlists, etc), worked closely with the fan clubs, encouraged the rest of the band to do stuff like the audio commentaries for their videos and had more direct involvement with the fans than the other guys. I think after MP left, it forced the rest of the guys to up their game and for some time they did have more of a presence, but to a large degree things reverted back to the way they were by the end of the first album cycle.
The return of LTE seemed much more bombastic in the DT discussion groups than it actually was.
Huh? Not sure I'm following what you're saying. Care to clarify?
Portnoy's return would likely be a pebble in the ocean, not a big splash in the lake. I think some of your overestimating his drawing power. Go back and look at the shitholes Sons of Apollo played on their first tour. That never happens if Portnoy was as big of a draw as some are implying. Not saying there aren't fans who are less likely to go to shows now who would be more likely to go if he was back, but it's most likely a pretty small percentage.
Not saying that his hypothetical return would be that huge, but it might be at least a bit more than you think. In terms of the places SoA has played, exactly how big were the places that Bruce Dickinson and Rob Halford played after they left their respective bands? I don't think they were significant either. Not saying MP returning would have the same impact on the band's popularity or draw that Bruce and Rob had, but it would be something. As Madman Shepherd mentioned, nostalgia does play a roll, although it's up for debate as to how long that upswing in popularity would last.
But was there a significant drop in financial terms after MP's departure? I honestly can't answer that.
I doubt it. If anything, I think it causes a spike in their popularity.
At least initially, sure, but long term it's hard to say. I think they did lose a certain measure of their popularity over the years. Can't remember when it was, but I was shocked to hear several years ago (I wanna say 2014 or 2015) that Steven Wilson headlined over DT at some European festival. Now I know Steven's probably grown in popularity a bit, but enough so that the festival organizers felt he was a bigger draw than DT? Never mind that TA probably set them back a bit in terms of the band's popularity (and I'm not just talking about the poorly planned second North American tour in support of the album). To help them regain that popularity, they did back to back tours where they performed their 2 most popular albums in their entirety; it would be interesting to know how successful they were in doing so.
-
I still don’t see where there was any real significant drop from Portnoy’s departure, initially. If there is so evidence for it, it would be fascinating to see.
As far as a drop in the last few years, sure. But I don’t think that can be blamed on a lack of Portnoy.
-
Thanks for that clarification Scotty. Your wording on the issue somewhat rings a bell so fair play.
-
I can't see them kicking MM out to let MP back in, nor can I see them going with a 2-drummer situation (it wouldn't work) but if MM ever choses to leave and there's an empty drum stool, then that's a different matter.
-
I don't know how many times Petrucci or mangini has said THIS is the Dream Theater lineup until the end and there's not really a chance of Portnoy coming back.
I also remember Mick Fleetwood saying THIS was the final line-up of Fleetwood Mac right before he sacked Lindsey Buckingham.
-
Portnoy's return would likely be a pebble in the ocean, not a big splash in the lake. I think some of your overestimating his drawing power. Go back and look at the shitholes Sons of Apollo played on their first tour. That never happens if Portnoy was as big of a draw as some are implying. Not saying there aren't fans who are less likely to go to shows now who would be more likely to go if he was back, but it's most likely a pretty small percentage.
Not like DT is Led Zeppelin or the Rolling Stones, but the Dream Theater brand name is much bigger than any one man who is in the band or has been in the band. The brand name is what helps sell tickets.
You're underestimating how much people loves nostalgia nowadays. Still, you're not too far off. Maybe not a pebble but surely a stone. Look at GNR with only Axl. At his peak he was playing 10k plus a night while Slash was playing anywhere from a couple thousand to the high hundreds. Throw the two of them together and they're selling out stadiums. Of course, Duff is probably responsible for dozens of those tickets too.
DT is no GNR though but without a doubt you would see a significant bump in tickets...for a tour. And significant, in relative terms, would be maybe a couple hundred more per night. Maybe even a thousand in a few markets. Next tour, you'd be back down to current levels.
Would that be worth the hassle to DT? Doubtful.
Anybody follow Sepultura? They have received so many offers to reunite with Max Cavalera and Igor. Andreas and Paulo have no interest despite the breakup not being nearly as bad as most bands and despite Sepultura playing small clubs. Their M&G package is only 50 bucks. Their vocalist doesn't get a lot of acclaim so many people are like, "Why are you so loyal to that guy?" Sidenote: I actually like Derrick Green MORE than Max and think he upped the lyricals and vocal qualities by A LOT...minority opinion though. A Sepultura reunion would increase tickets sale for them by a HUGE percentage, more than DT and yet, Andreas is like, "Nah."
Once you make a certain amount of money, to some people, any more is trivial.
Haha, poor Duff! :)
As I'm reading this, I also think that there are more dynamic scenarios than just "Mangini ups and leaves!" or "Petrucci fires Mangini!" As for JLB, I think you need to actually have the question on the table before it can be accurately answered. It's easy, with an album coming out and a tour looming (for example) to say "I'm never playing with Mike Portnoy ever again!". It's not so easy when you are looking over the edge at there being NO band, with NO reliable income stream or artistic outlet. Axl/Slash. Gene/Paul/Ace/Peter (multiple times). Mike/Derek. Dave/Eddie/Alex. People change, people age, people get new perspective. I think unless you're in that room, in that conversation, it's very hard to make any bold, conclusive statements. I don't say all this to suggest it's more likely it happens (actually, what I'm saying may make it LESS likely that it happens) just that any flat pronouncements are suspect in terms of their accuracy.
-
i see more possible to have an "event" where MP come join the band, like a special show where former members come for one or two songs.
Like the "When day and dream reunite" show
-
The return of LTE seemed much more bombastic in the DT discussion groups than it actually was.
Huh? Not sure I'm following what you're saying. Care to clarify?
In theory it seemed like a bigger event than it was in practice.
I confess that I also thought that the fact that MP playing again with JP and JR in something that is not DT but is as close as possible would be one of the great musical events of 2021 (at least in the prog/metall/rock universe ). It was not. It was another one of the musical events of 2021.
The news reverberated as I expected (a lot of buzz), the record didn't. The repercussion of the album (reviews, discussions, comments) was not different from most of the albums released in the year. The repercussion of LTE3 was not greater or more impactful than the new Transatlantic for example.
In a sense I agree with Kev (although I also think a return from MP to DT would be more impactful). But people really overestimate the drawing power of MP.
-
Rejoining the band permanently replacing Mangini - 0%
Rejoining the band permanently alongside Mangini - 10%
Rejoining the band for a one-off show - 100%
-
Rejoining the band permanently replacing Mangini - 0%
Rejoining the band permanently alongside Mangini - 10%
Why would they have two drummers? a band can get away with three guitarists instead of two, or two singers instead of one, but two drummers? especially considering the size of both kits.... was there ever a band that had two permanent drummers?
-
Rejoining the band permanently replacing Mangini - 0%
Rejoining the band permanently alongside Mangini - 10%
Why would they have two drummers? a band can get away with three guitarists instead of two, or two singers instead of one, but two drummers? especially considering the size of both kits.... was there ever a band that had two permanent drummers?
King Crimson has had 3 drummers for a while now
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard had 2 drummers for 10 years until one left last year
Melvins have had two drummers for years.
I’m sure there’s more examples I’m forgetting.
It’s not unheard of. It’s not likely in DT’s case, but I’d say still more likely than MP replacing MM. Hence the low %
-
Rejoining the band permanently replacing Mangini - 0%
Rejoining the band permanently alongside Mangini - 10%
Why would they have two drummers? a band can get away with three guitarists instead of two, or two singers instead of one, but two drummers? especially considering the size of both kits.... was there ever a band that had two permanent drummers?
King Crimson has had 3 drummers for a while now
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard had 2 drummers for 10 years until one left last year
Melvins have had two drummers for years.
I’m sure there’s more examples I’m forgetting.
It’s not unheard of. It’s not likely in DT’s case, but I’d say still more likely than MP replacing MM. Hence the low %
Kylesa
https://youtu.be/7vp1PPxxcp0?t=646
-
was there ever a band that had two permanent drummers?
.38 Special and The Grateful Dead
Among others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_drumming
-
The Allman Brothers.
-
The Allman Brothers.
Their sons' band, The Allman Betts Band, does as well.
-
The Allman Brothers.
Their sons' band, The Allman Betts Band, does as well.
One of the best live moments I've experienced was a 45-minute "In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed" with the Warren Haynes/Dickie Betts lineup, and the middle section was a good 10 minute drum duet between Butch Trucks and Jaimo.
-
The Allman Brothers.
Their sons' band, The Allman Betts Band, does as well.
Mookie Betts is the son of an Allman Brother?! :biggrin:
-
Rejoining the band permanently replacing Mangini - 0%
Rejoining the band permanently alongside Mangini - 10%
Why would they have two drummers? a band can get away with three guitarists instead of two, or two singers instead of one, but two drummers? especially considering the size of both kits.... was there ever a band that had two permanent drummers?
A lot of bands also have a drummer and percussionist which isn't too different than two drummers.
-
Rejoining the band permanently replacing Mangini - 0%
Rejoining the band permanently alongside Mangini - 10%
Why would they have two drummers? a band can get away with three guitarists instead of two, or two singers instead of one, but two drummers? especially considering the size of both kits.... was there ever a band that had two permanent drummers?
A lot of bands also have a drummer and percussionist which isn't too different than two drummers.
Widespread Panic. The touring Pink Floyd, post-Waters.
-
Yes did it with White and Bruford for the Union tour, kind of cool.
-
Rejoining the band permanently replacing Mangini - 0%
Rejoining the band permanently alongside Mangini - 10%
Why would they have two drummers? a band can get away with three guitarists instead of two, or two singers instead of one, but two drummers? especially considering the size of both kits.... was there ever a band that had two permanent drummers?
A lot of bands also have a drummer and percussionist which isn't too different than two drummers.
Widespread Panic. The touring Pink Floyd, post-Waters.
Chicago and Toto were recent bands I've seen with the drummer and percussionist. I really don't see DT doing this, but it's not uncommon.
-
Godspeed You! Black Emperor has two drummers (one of the kits has orchestra stuff like a glockenspiel).
The Blasphemy lineup of Kayo Dot has two drummers, one guitarist and one bassist/keyboardist.
-
IMO, there is a LESS THAN ZERO pct chance of DT EVER having a two drummer set. One, MP would NEVER go for it (Nor should he). Two, it would inconsiderate to MM.
-
What we really need is for LTE to open for DT on the next tour. Everybody wins.
Except JLB...lol
B.Lee
Would JLB stand behind the back line for the LTE set too? Or just most of the DT set? I KID! I KID!
(I really do kid; I'm a JLB fan, he's why I FIRST got into the band and I can't imagine liking DT without James singing.)
Now, that is funny, Stad!
B.Lee
-
IMO, there is a LESS THAN ZERO pct chance of DT EVER having a two drummer set. One, MP would NEVER go for it (Nor should he). Two, it would inconsiderate to MM.
Not that I know any more about what they are thinking than you do, but I think you underestimate the power of collaboration. For instance, Portnoy is a HUGE Genesis fan, and from '76 to this very day, their tours highlighted a double-drum set up, and in fact it was a highlight of the show. I'm not saying it can't happen - Steve Howe - but unless they say it to be so, I'm not willing to assume that any musician, particularly two who have such varied collaborative backgrounds, would default to be "inconsiderate" by the idea of yet another musical collaboration. Again, Iron Maiden (Gers, Murray, Smith).
I know for me, anything I'm suggesting here assumes the full (if not tacit) approval of all parties. These are grown men and I trust them to make their own decisions, and be accepting of any outcome. It's not for me to say that they should or should not do anything, or whether they should or should not feel a certain way.
-
Until one of these guys is no longer above ground, there is always gonna be a chance. Hell, MP has already written and performed new music with half of the other 4 DT guys! And, sure, JLB may be the biggest and final hurdle before it ever happens again. But, if the original 4 members of KISS were able to get it together for a few years to tour again, a less dysfunctional DT can certainly do it. Maybe JP gets tired of writing 90-100% of the lyrics on their albums and would like an assist from an old partner. Maybe MM finally gets fed up with MP's ghost hanging over his head for 10-15 years. Whatever the reason, until it physically can't happen, one can always hope.
-
Haven't seen it mentioned - but i'd be cool with MP coming back as co-producer on a future album.
-
Until one of these guys is no longer above ground, there is always gonna be a chance. Hell, MP has already written and performed new music with half of the other 4 DT guys! And, sure, JLB may be the biggest and final hurdle before it ever happens again. But, if the original 4 members of KISS were able to get it together for a few years to tour again, a less dysfunctional DT can certainly do it. Maybe JP gets tired of writing 90-100% of the lyrics on their albums and would like an assist from an old partner. Maybe MM finally gets fed up with MP's ghost hanging over his head for 10-15 years. Whatever the reason, until it physically can't happen, one can always hope.
Yeah I'd rather have writer's block JP lyrics than any MP lyrics.
-
DOT, and most likely the new album, shows there's no need for them to get more lyricists in the band. 4/5 of the members write lyrics already.
-
I voted for the 25% chance but I honestly want to go back and do 50%. Everything that's cited here as a reason not to go through with a reunion I see as resolvable. MP and JLB could absolutely sit down and catch up and patch the long break in their friendship if the band was on the line. JP and MP could work out who would do what and they would both be willing to make concessions.
Remember this isn't 2010 anymore and these guys are old! (No offense to my boomers and older X-ers here)
As for MM having to leave on his own volition, not that that's impossible (he might say 12-15 years of being in a band again was enough for him), but Dream Theater isn't exactly known for never firing people. Relationships change all the time and I don't see that as beyond them anymore, like I used to.
This all hinges on them actually being willing to reunite, but it all comes down to the fact MP was very unlikely to leave back in the day, and yet he did. Shit happens, you know?
-
I’ve been supportive of MM from the beginning. And, overall I really like the direction the band has taken these last 10 years. A direction that probably wouldn’t have happened with Portnoy in the band.
HOWEVER… I have to admit that hearing Terminal Velocity and LTE3 has gotten me missing Portnoy in the band. There’s just a sound that is created when Portnoy plays to Petrucci’s riffs. They each have their own style, and the combination of the two is something special. And after a decade apart, they’ve still got it. I think overall, DT is better off staying the course they’re on now.
I think a one-off show is the most likely scenario, and I would be disappointed if that never happened. I would be perfectly happy with this band calling it a day with MM still behind the kit.
-
REALLY hard to listen to some of the lyrics on the new NMB album and not think of situations like this. "The Way It Had To Be" in particular.
-
REALLY hard to listen to some of the lyrics on the new NMB album and not think of situations like this. "The Way It Had To Be" in particular.
:tup :hefdaddy
-
Haven't seen it mentioned - but i'd be cool with MP coming back as co-producer on a future album.
Ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh nononononono... this has disaster written all over it.
... but it'd be a cool reality show.
(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/b1/95/8b/b1958be94df8b2abc39b0690ed555b78.jpg)
-
Haven't seen it mentioned - but i'd be cool with MP coming back as co-producer on a future album.
Ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh nononononono... this has disaster written all over it.
... but it'd be a cool reality show.
(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/b1/95/8b/b1958be94df8b2abc39b0690ed555b78.jpg)
:lol yeah, not a good idea
-
Haven't seen it mentioned - but i'd be cool with MP coming back as co-producer on a future album.
Ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh nononononono... this has disaster written all over it.
... but it'd be a cool reality show.
(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/b1/95/8b/b1958be94df8b2abc39b0690ed555b78.jpg)
:lol yeah, not a good idea
The drums would probably sound like the bass from And Justice for All.
-
The drums would probably sound like the bass from And Justice for All.
:rollin
-
The drums would probably sound like the bass from And Justice for All.
So, like A Dramatic Turn Of Events? :P
-
Personally I don't see it happening. It's really good to see MP working with JP and JR again on solo albums and LTE, so if anything I think we might see more of that.
But in DT? Nope.
-
The drums would probably sound like the bass from And Justice for All.
So, like A Dramatic Turn Of Events? :P
For both albums, the newcomer is lower in the mix than everyone else. Hmmm...
-
Personally I don't see it happening. It's really good to see MP working with JP and JR again on solo albums and LTE, so if anything I think we might see more of that.
But in DT? Nope.
MP (I think) said LTE4 would be coming out sooner than later (which makes sense considering Tony Levin's age)
-
The drums would probably sound like the bass from And Justice for All.
So, like A Dramatic Turn Of Events? :P
For both albums, the newcomer is lower in the mix than everyone else. Hmmm...
huh?
Newstead's bass in justice is either mixed out/inaudible on every track. I guess you could say that maybe Petrucci reacted a bit to MP's hot drum mixes in the previous DT records and wanted MM slotted into the mix more reasonably. But like I just turned on Bridges in the Sky and I hear lots of cymbals, snare, and kick drum heads. But not sure what this post is about
-
The drums would probably sound like the bass from And Justice for All.
*oof*
-
Maybe one day when DT decide to quit, and then they reunite as old people
-
Three things:
1. First off, as for the question posed, let me just get something obvious out of the way before offering my opinion: There are perhaps three people on this board who know the current bandmembers, band management, and MP better than me. (maybe a couple of others I am unaware of or am forgetting) It's not like I would be over at any of their houses for Sunday dinner or anything. And given the history of the band, I am a relative newcomer in terms of actually knowing any of them personally. But I know them better than most here.
And that being said, my answer is: I don't have any clue.
There are certainly MANY factors that seem to weigh heavily against it, such as: (1) The band have said that they have no intention of bringing in anyone new in any position; (2) They have all said they REALLY like having Mangini in the band, and he has said the same; (3) They play to a click now, which JP REALLY likes, and MP would likely not want to do that; (4) There was somewhat of a rift between James and Mike, and although it is likely that time has lessened that rift, we don't know how much; and (5) Things are just different now, and a lot of things would have to change internally within the structure of the band for MP to return.
But none of those are insurmountable. Mangini could step down tomorrow. The band could decide to part ways with him due to "creative differences" we are unaware of, or any number of other things. As Kev pointed out in his post on page 1, even if there were issues or even if they had a rough contingency plan in the back of their minds if and when something were to happen, they wouldn't voice that to the public. We have no idea. JP and band management are pretty comfortable around me, and have let me in on some "secrets" and behind-the-scenes stuff, but they almost for sure wouldn't share that kind of stuff.
That said, whenever I have seen them and talked to them, they have seemed very happy with how things are now, including Mangini. I have seen nothing to indicate that he would leave in the forseeable future. But he could. And if he did, I can't say whether the band would ask MP back. If you hypothetically sat the four of them down and tried to make them answer, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them couldn't, or if they had differing opinions that couldn't be worked out together until they actually found themselves in a situation where they had to decide. Personally, I could see it going either way.
So, yeah, my honest answer is: I don't know. If I had to speculate, my educated guess is that I don't see it realistically happening in the near future, and more likely than not, not happening in the long term either. But I wouldn't be even slightly shocked if it did.
2. Second, yes, this topic has been beaten to death. But it is a legitimate question, as long as the discussion is kept respectful. There is no need to bash the person who posted the question, or to second-guess his motives, his fandom, or how long he has been here. Honestly, it's kind of nice to have the discussion confined to a dedicated thread rather than having it come up as a tangent in several others.
3. Regarding this: I know we have a couple of lawyers here. I would be interested in hearing their take on what they believe the legal structure of the band would have to be in order for MP to return.
I don't think any of us can speculate, because that is ultimately something the 4 existing members and MP would have to decide among themselves based on what they want to see happen, and what they can legally do based on the existing corporate documents. I don't know for certain how things are structured now. But my educated guess is that, relevant to what you are asking, it is something like this:
Each member is likely paid a base salary from the parent corporation (or from whichever subsidiary handles payroll). I would hazard a guess that the base salaries are close to equal, if not completely equal, but that is entirely a factor of what the band members agreed to. Above that, certain members might perhaps be entitled to additional compensation based on other roles they have taken on. Again, I don't know for certain whether that is how they are currently structured, but it would not be surprising either way. Beyond that, they can opt to pay out discretionary bonuses (usually at the end of the tax year) after all other expenses are paid based on how the company performed financially, how much is in the bank, etc. Those could be equal, or could have weighted percentages based on any number of factors.
I think one of the things you might have been getting at in your post, Jammin, is whether Mangini is an owner or just an employee. The first line item I mentioned above (base salary) is likely the same or close to it, whether or not he is an owner. The other two items could vary wildly based on whether or not he is an owner. That is especially true of item 3. If he is only an employee, the corporate documents could very likely spell out that he is not entitled to any bonuses or other compensation that the owners would get on top of their base salaries. But I have no idea whether or not he is an owner. [note: they are ALL employees; the distinction I am making is that the other 4 are likely owners in addition to being employees. Not sure about Mangini's status. And another wrinkle is that various members likely fulfill corporate officer rules as well, which they could have decided would entitle those filling those roles to additional compensation.]
In terms of specific duties assigned to different members, that is largely up to them as well. Some of it might be spelled out in the corporate documents. Other stuff might be decided informally. Hard to say. We know MP did a LOT when he was in the band. Whether or not he would take on all of those duties if he hypothetically returned to the band isn't likely a legal question, but just a question of what he and the others would want to do.
But that said, I am not aware of any specific legal impediment to MP returning, or to him assuming none, some, or all of the roles he had before. It is just a question of what they could agree to.
[*also note that, of the lawyers on the board, I believe PG has more specific entertainment law experience than I do, and may be able to weigh in to provide additional detail and insight, and possibly correct some things I have said, if he is so inclined]
~~~~~~~~~~~
tl;dnr: :dunno:
-
Very nice post, Bosk. Honest and full of insight that comes from knowing the guys.
-
JP and band management are pretty comfortable around me, and have let me in on some "secrets" and behind-the-scenes stuff, but they almost for sure wouldn't share that kind of stuff.
I know it's almost pointless to ask, but out of sheer curiosity... is there a way to tell what kind of stuff, in generic terms, you were let in on, without actually saying what it is? or maybe some past stuff that now has become general knowledge but you knew long before?
-
One example that is common knowledge is, during the Astonishing tour, JP shared with me the set list for the then-upcoming I&W and Beyond tour. Another that is not common knowledge is that, prior to Covid, the band were working on a tour with another pretty big name act. Unfortunately, that probably isn't going to happen now.
-
One example that is common knowledge is, during the Astonishing tour, JP shared with me the set list for the then-upcoming I&W and Beyond tour. Another that is not common knowledge is that, prior to Covid, the band were working on a tour with another pretty big name act. Unfortunately, that probably isn't going to happen now.
A co-headline?
-
The drums would probably sound like the bass from And Justice for All.
So, like A Dramatic Turn Of Events? :P
For both albums, the newcomer is lower in the mix than everyone else. Hmmm...
huh?
Newstead's bass in justice is either mixed out/inaudible on every track. I guess you could say that maybe Petrucci reacted a bit to MP's hot drum mixes in the previous DT records and wanted MM slotted into the mix more reasonably. But like I just turned on Bridges in the Sky and I hear lots of cymbals, snare, and kick drum heads. But not sure what this post is about
Obviously you can't get away with mixing the drums completely out, but they are WAY too low in the mix, moreso than any other rock or metal album by a major label band I can think of.
-
The drums would probably sound like the bass from And Justice for All.
So, like A Dramatic Turn Of Events? :P
For both albums, the newcomer is lower in the mix than everyone else. Hmmm...
huh?
Newstead's bass in justice is either mixed out/inaudible on every track. I guess you could say that maybe Petrucci reacted a bit to MP's hot drum mixes in the previous DT records and wanted MM slotted into the mix more reasonably. But like I just turned on Bridges in the Sky and I hear lots of cymbals, snare, and kick drum heads. But not sure what this post is about
Obviously you can't get away with mixing the drums completely out, but they are WAY too low in the mix, moreso than any other rock or metal album by a major label band I can think of.
Of course you can. Listen to Billie Jean without drums. :biggrin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_lGnSauan8
:lol
-
Very nice post, Bosk. Honest and full of insight that comes from knowing the guys.
:hefdaddy
-
Obviously you can't get away with mixing the drums completely out, but they are WAY too low in the mix, moreso than any other rock or metal album by a major label band I can think of.
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but that is rubbish. They are mixed low compared to how Portnoy's always were, and I have voiced my issues with the muddy mix of ADTOE in general (especially when it rocks), but listen to 95% of rock albums from the 70's, the decade of the dead drum sound, and you'll hear a shit ton of albums where the drums are mixed way too low.
-
Agreed. And you don't even have to go back to the '70s or '80s to find albums where the drums are mixed lower. There are plenty in recent times.
-
One example that is common knowledge is, during the Astonishing tour, JP shared with me the set list for the then-upcoming I&W and Beyond tour. Another that is not common knowledge is that, prior to Covid, the band were working on a tour with another pretty big name act. Unfortunately, that probably isn't going to happen now.
Thanks!
-
Agreed. And you don't even have to go back to the '70s or '80s to find albums where the drums are mixed lower. There are plenty in recent times.
The album One Cure Fits All by Therapy? The drums are WAY too quiet. At one point in the song " Deluded Son " - the guitars are mixed so loud the drums are virtually silent.
-
The ONLY way I see this happening is if Mangini steps aside or retires.
We know Portnoy wants back in but he keeps himself occupied with other bands and I think he has too much pride to ask at this point. On the flip side I don’t see the band firing Mangini. The band appears to be Petrucci’s baby, he pretty much has near full control on the direction of that band and he has a drummer who will go with the flow and is capable of playing anything Petrucci needs, musically. There’s zero incentive for DT to bring MP back besides fan service. Yes, JP and MP are buds but that’s what weekend projects like LTE and solo albums are for.
AT BEST I think we might get a “kitchen sink” tour similar to the Van Halen/Van Hagar plan towards the end of the bands run where Portnoy plays Portnoy songs and Mangini plays Mangini songs- something that gives the fans what they want AND is low commitment.
-
Obviously you can't get away with mixing the drums completely out, but they are WAY too low in the mix, moreso than any other rock or metal album by a major label band I can think of.
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but that is rubbish. They are mixed low compared to how Portnoy's always were, and I have voiced my issues with the muddy mix of ADTOE in general (especially when it rocks), but listen to 95% of rock albums from the 70's, the decade of the dead drum sound, and you'll hear a shit ton of albums where the drums are mixed way too low.
I hear drums just fine from 60s/70s/80s albums, it's all relative to recording technology of the time.
There's no excuse for an album recorded and released in 2011.
-
We know Portnoy wants back in....
We do?
...I think he has too much pride to ask at this point.
It would take some stones to ask to rejoin a band 10 years after you left when they have been marching along quite well without you.
-
We do?
I mean…put it this way I have zero doubt Portnoy would immediately drop what he was doing and abandon not only his other musical projects but probably his own children to get back together with the band he STILL refers to as his “baby”.
-
The ONLY way I see this happening is if Mangini steps aside or retires.
We know Portnoy wants back in but he keeps himself occupied with other bands and I think he has too much pride to ask at this point. On the flip side I don’t see the band firing Mangini. The band appears to be Petrucci’s baby, he pretty much has near full control on the direction of that band and he has a drummer who will go with the flow and is capable of playing anything Petrucci needs, musically. There’s zero incentive for DT to bring MP back besides fan service. Yes, JP and MP are buds but that’s what weekend projects like LTE and solo albums are for.
AT BEST I think we might get a “kitchen sink” tour similar to the Van Halen/Van Hagar plan towards the end of the bands run where Portnoy plays Portnoy songs and Mangini plays Mangini songs- something that gives the fans what they want AND is low commitment.
I guess I don't understand these opinions that rely on what other people - who haven't said anything about it that wasn't a press release - feel. If Bosk - who KNOWS them, to the point of being able to pick up the phone and call them - won't speculate on how they feel about this, why should we? I don't think we know that Portnoy wants back in. I also don't know - at this point - anything about what his "pride" will or will not dictate. People change. People age. People come to grips with things. People evolve. I've been watching the Transatlantic and Neal Morse documentaries recently and I'm amazed at what I see in those films as Mike being a lot more collaborative and giving in terms of working with those around him. Twenty years with Neal Morse - not a shrinking violet himself - might have that effect on someone.
-
We do?
I mean…put it this way I have zero doubt Portnoy would immediately drop what he was doing and abandon not only his other musical projects but probably his own children to get back together with the band he STILL refers to as his “baby”.
I don't think we can say that with any certainty.
-
MP re-joining would be the biggest news of both the prog and metal worlds.
It would increase the band's popularity and presence. It would be a good business decision for both parties.
lolno
-
There's no doubt that MP playing with DT would be PR gold.
-
We do?
I mean…put it this way I have zero doubt Portnoy would immediately drop what he was doing and abandon not only his other musical projects but probably his own children to get back together with the band he STILL refers to as his “baby”.
I don't think we can say that with any certainty.
He wanted back in a month after he left. His position has always been that it’s in the DT camp’s hands. He’s made comments a few years back that, theoretically, by now he’d have gotten his “hiatus” thing out of his system, he wanted the band to get together for his birthday bash, and even recently, with Joey Jordison’s death, he made some “life’s too short” comments, being saddened by the fact that Joey was never able to return to the band he helped found (hint hint, nudge nudge). People do age, people do change but let’s face it, Portnoy has that fan mentality which another poster mentioned in this thread, and there’s no bigger Dream Theater fan than Mike Portnoy. But I digress, we can pretend MP has no interest in returning to the band.
My MAIN point still stands. Whether or not Portnoy wants in; he’s not going to ask for the gig (we can say pride, we can say other reasons). And DT isn’t going to approach him unless Mangini voluntarily quits/retires. That’s where I THINK we are at.
-
There's no doubt that MP playing with DT would be PR gold.
Just IMAGINE that Press Release !
-
There's no doubt that MP playing with DT would be PR gold.
Just IMAGINE that Press Release !
It’s interesting to think about…would it REALLY make a difference to the band from say an album/ticket sales perspective? I’m not really sure if there was a big exodus of fans following Portnoy’s departure. Maybe? I’m my home city they’ve been playing the same theatre for literally the past 25 years. I think at this point the band has its ride or die fans, Portnoy or no Portnoy. Maybe I’m understating Portnoy’s draw, though.
-
According to the Wiki - Distance Over Time was one of their most successful albums so...
-
DT's trajectory was constantly going up while MP was in the band. The last album with MP was the highest charting album of theirs to date, in the US.
Since he left, they may not have lost popularity, but their popularity has remained relatively the same since, and not increased from my perspective.
Outside of sites like this, I also see more negative comments online about the band since MP left, than ever before.
Not from casual fans or non-fans, those have always existed, but from big fans who enjoy(ed) DT's music prior to Mangini joining.
-
DT's trajectory was constantly going up while MP was in the band. The last album with MP was the highest charting album of theirs to date, in the US.
Since he left, they may not have lost popularity, but their popularity has remained relatively the same since, and not increased from my perspective.
Outside of sites like this, I also see more negative comments online about the band since MP left, than ever before.
Not from casual fans or non-fans, those have always existed, but from big fans who enjoy(ed) DT's music prior to Mangini joining.
Two things come to mind when reading your post. And I don’t necessarily mean this as an argument, because you’re not wrong, just a couple of thoughts.
1. Yes, their popularity has not risen since MP’s departure. But there is no proof that the rise they had had anything to do with him. There is no proof that the stagnation has anything to do with him. And we don’t know that if he stayed, things would have been just the same.
2. Yes, there are negative comments all over the web about Mangini vs Portnoy. Or people who don’t like DT, post-MP. But we know that isn’t the general consensus. Negative opinions are always louder than the positive ones. If those comments really represented a large percentage of “fans” we would have seen a significant drop in album sales and ticket sales. Which it doesn’t seem like we have. The Astonishing was not as…uhh…prosperous as they probably planned. But people don’t hate it because Portnoy isn’t on there. That’s all.
-
He wanted back in a month after he left. His position has always been that it’s in the DT camp’s hands. He’s made comments a few years back that, theoretically, by now he’d have gotten his “hiatus” thing out of his system, he wanted the band to get together for his birthday bash, and even recently, with Joey Jordison’s death, he made some “life’s too short” comments, being saddened by the fact that Joey was never able to return to the band he helped found (hint hint, nudge nudge). People do age, people do change but let’s face it, Portnoy has that fan mentality which another poster mentioned in this thread, and there’s no bigger Dream Theater fan than Mike Portnoy. But I digress, we can pretend MP has no interest in returning to the band.
I wasn't trying to flat out disagree with you. I was just thinking there is some gray area between "I REALLY want back in DT, I can't wait much longer..." and "Yeah, if the opportunity arose, I'd like to rejoin the band..."
MP re-joining would be the biggest news of both the prog and metal worlds.
It would increase the band's popularity and presence. It would be a good business decision for both parties.
I have no idea what constitutes "news" in the prog/metal world, but I would tend to agree with the first part.
Regarding the second point, sure there'd be a minor bump in popularity and presence. As to being a "good business decision," I think some guys in their late 50s are not going to be as inclined to make decisions like they are Michael Corleone.
-
Rejoining as a permanent member? 0%
Joining them for a reunion show similar to Charles Dominici and Derek Sherinian did for When Dream & Day Reunite? Possible.
-
The ONLY way I see this happening is if Mangini steps aside or retires.
We know Portnoy wants back in but he keeps himself occupied with other bands and I think he has too much pride to ask at this point. On the flip side I don’t see the band firing Mangini. The band appears to be Petrucci’s baby, he pretty much has near full control on the direction of that band and he has a drummer who will go with the flow and is capable of playing anything Petrucci needs, musically. There’s zero incentive for DT to bring MP back besides fan service. Yes, JP and MP are buds but that’s what weekend projects like LTE and solo albums are for.
AT BEST I think we might get a “kitchen sink” tour similar to the Van Halen/Van Hagar plan towards the end of the bands run where Portnoy plays Portnoy songs and Mangini plays Mangini songs- something that gives the fans what they want AND is low commitment.
I guess I don't understand these opinions that rely on what other people - who haven't said anything about it that wasn't a press release - feel. If Bosk - who KNOWS them, to the point of being able to pick up the phone and call them - won't speculate on how they feel about this, why should we? I don't think we know that Portnoy wants back in. I also don't know - at this point - anything about what his "pride" will or will not dictate. People change. People age. People come to grips with things. People evolve. I've been watching the Transatlantic and Neal Morse documentaries recently and I'm amazed at what I see in those films as Mike being a lot more collaborative and giving in terms of working with those around him. Twenty years with Neal Morse - not a shrinking violet himself - might have that effect on someone.
Agreed, but Portnoy was even like that with Neal back in the 00's, even in the latter part of the decade when he was power tripping with DT, which goes back to a point I made years ago that Portnoy is almost like a different person when he is around Neal Morse. I am sure the power dynamic is a part of it. Remember the clip from a few years ago (cannot remember which Neal or NMB album it was) where Neal wanted Portnoy to redo a drum part, and Portnoy kind of sighed and said something to the effect of (paraphrasing), "can't you just fix that in post-production?", and Neal fired back that it is better to go back and do it right. I doubt anyone in DT, even Petrucci, would have had the balls to say something like that to him once he got on his power trip where he was the leader and the one to call the shots. Portnoy basically had free reign to say and do anything he wanted with DT the last few years and no one was going to stop him, and I don't see any way that he could return and a similar scenario exists. Even if he and JLB could make peace to where they could work together again, I could see Portnoy returning as a producer being a deal-breaker for James. I don't see letting Portnoy come back to tell him how and what to sing is a concession he would make.
-
DT's trajectory was constantly going up while MP was in the band. The last album with MP was the highest charting album of theirs to date, in the US.
Since he left, they may not have lost popularity, but their popularity has remained relatively the same since, and not increased from my perspective.
Outside of sites like this, I also see more negative comments online about the band since MP left, than ever before.
Not from casual fans or non-fans, those have always existed, but from big fans who enjoy(ed) DT's music prior to Mangini joining.
Two things come to mind when reading your post. And I don’t necessarily mean this as an argument, because you’re not wrong, just a couple of thoughts.
1. Yes, their popularity has not risen since MP’s departure. But there is no proof that the rise they had had anything to do with him. There is no proof that the stagnation has anything to do with him. And we don’t know that if he stayed, things would have been just the same.
2. Yes, there are negative comments all over the web about Mangini vs Portnoy. Or people who don’t like DT, post-MP. But we know that isn’t the general consensus. Negative opinions are always louder than the positive ones. If those comments really represented a large percentage of “fans” we would have seen a significant drop in album sales and ticket sales. Which it doesn’t seem like we have. The Astonishing was not as…uhh…prosperous as they probably planned. But people don’t hate it because Portnoy isn’t on there. That’s all.
Yes, both of those points are very well taken. And to add to point #1, yes, BCSL initially charted very high. But let's not forget that that was only an initial chart position based on preorders and those buying the album the first week of release. That was largely due to Roadrunner actually having a marketing campaign, and the hype surrounding it being the 10th album and 25th anniversary of the band. Sales fell off precipitously after that and the majority of fans ranked the album pretty low after hearing it. It's not like they were on some trajectory to superstardom at the end of Portnoy's tenure that suddenly evaporated after he left. Far from it.
-
I’d also like to say considering the ever continuing (de)evolution of the music industry, comparing the successes of an album in 2010 vs 2021 is a bit apples and oranges. I also think they were riding a bit of commercial resurgence wave from Panic Attack being featured in Rock Band 2 which dropped in late 2008- I think that definitely gave Black Clouds a boost.
-
The ONLY way I see this happening is if Mangini steps aside or retires.
We know Portnoy wants back in but he keeps himself occupied with other bands and I think he has too much pride to ask at this point. On the flip side I don’t see the band firing Mangini. The band appears to be Petrucci’s baby, he pretty much has near full control on the direction of that band and he has a drummer who will go with the flow and is capable of playing anything Petrucci needs, musically. There’s zero incentive for DT to bring MP back besides fan service. Yes, JP and MP are buds but that’s what weekend projects like LTE and solo albums are for.
AT BEST I think we might get a “kitchen sink” tour similar to the Van Halen/Van Hagar plan towards the end of the bands run where Portnoy plays Portnoy songs and Mangini plays Mangini songs- something that gives the fans what they want AND is low commitment.
I guess I don't understand these opinions that rely on what other people - who haven't said anything about it that wasn't a press release - feel. If Bosk - who KNOWS them, to the point of being able to pick up the phone and call them - won't speculate on how they feel about this, why should we? I don't think we know that Portnoy wants back in. I also don't know - at this point - anything about what his "pride" will or will not dictate. People change. People age. People come to grips with things. People evolve. I've been watching the Transatlantic and Neal Morse documentaries recently and I'm amazed at what I see in those films as Mike being a lot more collaborative and giving in terms of working with those around him. Twenty years with Neal Morse - not a shrinking violet himself - might have that effect on someone.
Agreed, but Portnoy was even like that with Neal back in the 00's, even in the latter part of the decade when he was power tripping with DT, which goes back to a point I made years ago that Portnoy is almost like a different person when he is around Neal Morse. I am sure the power dynamic is a part of it. Remember the clip from a few years ago (cannot remember which Neal or NMB album it was) where Neal wanted Portnoy to redo a drum part, and Portnoy kind of sighed and said something to the effect of (paraphrasing), "can't you just fix that in post-production?", and Neal fired back that it is better to go back and do it right. I doubt anyone in DT, even Petrucci, would have had the balls to say something like that to him once he got on his power trip where he was the leader and the one to call the shots. Portnoy basically had free reign to say and do anything he wanted with DT the last few years and no one was going to stop him, and I don't see any way that he could return and a similar scenario exists. Even if he and JLB could make peace to where they could work together again, I could see Portnoy returning as a producer being a deal-breaker for James. I don't see letting Portnoy come back to tell him how and what to sing is a concession he would make.
Sorry Kev, but that's the case at all. Sure MP *was* calling a lot of the shots without JP or anyone else disagreeing to the point of vetoing, but that doesn't mean he was calling all of them nor always getting his way. There three publicly known reasons why that this is true: the limits that the band had on how long they would tour for a given leg, the "angry" vocals on ANtR and when MP wanted a hiatus.
• Since JR's been in the band and maybe even before (can't remember off the top of my head), DT's never done a leg of a tour longer than 5-6 weeks. A lot of that could be attributed to JP (see the lyrics to Endless Sacrifice) but probably the other guys, too. MP *loves* being out on the road and has repeatedly gone straight from one tour onto another or intermixing dates with different bands, especially after leaving DT. Had MP had full control of everything in DT, it wouldn't take much to figure that he would push for longer tour legs, especially considering all the cities/markets that DT skip over. In fact, I can remember a typical response he would give when fans would ask why their city was getting skipped this time around, and he would say something to the effect of "we had to skip it because we're going to other cities that we haven't visited yet". Had there not been those limits enforced by JP and perhaps others, I'm sure MP would have pushed to see to it that all those cities were covered.
• When the controversy of his vocals on ANtR came up, he posted on his forum all the steps and variations he, JP and JL went through, largely at the behest of JP before finally coming up with the "angry" vocals that ended up on the album, as opposed to the full on cookie monster that MP wanted to do.
• When MP wanted the hiatus, the band stood up to him.
Now, how many other situations happened where JP and/or others stood up to MP? Who knows, but it stands to reason that there are other instances. In fact, although it happened back in 2003, you could consider the situation where JL resisted MP's suggestion of doing a cover of Ozzy's Revelation Mother Earth to be another example (they ended up doing Diary of a Madman instead).
So no, it's not exactly the way you're painting it Kev. Was he *a* leader of the band along with JP? Absolutely. Was he the dictator of the band? No.
-
We do?
I mean…put it this way I have zero doubt Portnoy would immediately drop what he was doing and abandon not only his other musical projects but probably his own children to get back together with the band he STILL refers to as his “baby”.
I don't think we can say that with any certainty.
He wanted back in a month after he left. His position has always been that it’s in the DT camp’s hands. He’s made comments a few years back that, theoretically, by now he’d have gotten his “hiatus” thing out of his system, he wanted the band to get together for his birthday bash, and even recently, with Joey Jordison’s death, he made some “life’s too short” comments, being saddened by the fact that Joey was never able to return to the band he helped found (hint hint, nudge nudge). People do age, people do change but let’s face it, Portnoy has that fan mentality which another poster mentioned in this thread, and there’s no bigger Dream Theater fan than Mike Portnoy. But I digress, we can pretend MP has no interest in returning to the band.
My MAIN point still stands. Whether or not Portnoy wants in; he’s not going to ask for the gig (we can say pride, we can say other reasons). And DT isn’t going to approach him unless Mangini voluntarily quits/retires. That’s where I THINK we are at.
How old are you? Serious question. I'm 53, with four kids. In some cases, in MANY cases, what I "wanted" back ten years ago is a footnote in history compared to what I want now. Not to say that I'm fickle or change my mind, but things evolve. When I was 43, I had just gotten laid off (thanks Obama) and was scrambling for a job. I would have taken anything, frankly, because that's what you do to provide for a family. But my goal, my dream was to get back to GE, a company I had left for not dissimilar reasons to Mike and DT's split. I was lucky; I got that opportunity, and spent a year in Erie, 250 miles from my family, commuting every weekend. I wouldn't DREAM of doing that today. Not because it was bad, or I hate GE, or any of those things, but it's not conducive to my marriage, where my kids are today in THEIR lives, and where I want to be in ten years for myself (RETIRED, bitches!). It's not that I'm a totally different person - I'm largely the same - but I've distilled down what is important, and realized it's not the job itself, or the company, but what I do IN the job, and with whom I do it. I'm smarter, I'm more aware, I'm more... in touch.
Another example: I've got an invite to a golf tournament in a couple weeks for a guy I went to high school with and played hockey with, who died of some cancer or another. Ten years ago, living in Philly, Mumming, traveling for work, I wouldn't have given it a second thought. Not a shot, fuck those people. I wasn't great friends with some of those guys, and it wasn't... well, the kids today might call it bullying, I don't, but to put it in language you would understand, maybe there wasn't a lot of respect given me at that time. Today? I'm thinking about going. We're older, we're wiser, we're in different places with different levels of success and self-worth... times change, people change, goals change, what's important changes...I know how to deal with people like that, and if they are stuck in 1985, well, I know how to handle THAT as well.
I think we owe it to these people we look up to to remember that it's NOT 1992 or 2010 anymore. They, too, are allowed to grow, to learn, to evolve, to refine, to become more aware...
-
He wanted back in a month after he left. His position has always been that it’s in the DT camp’s hands. He’s made comments a few years back that, theoretically, by now he’d have gotten his “hiatus” thing out of his system, he wanted the band to get together for his birthday bash, and even recently, with Joey Jordison’s death, he made some “life’s too short” comments, being saddened by the fact that Joey was never able to return to the band he helped found (hint hint, nudge nudge). People do age, people do change but let’s face it, Portnoy has that fan mentality which another poster mentioned in this thread, and there’s no bigger Dream Theater fan than Mike Portnoy. But I digress, we can pretend MP has no interest in returning to the band.
I wasn't trying to flat out disagree with you. I was just thinking there is some gray area between "I REALLY want back in DT, I can't wait much longer..." and "Yeah, if the opportunity arose, I'd like to rejoin the band..."
Of COURSE there is; most of the world (including the people in it) is very grey, and yet most people seem to look at it as if it is statically black OR white and never to change. "Well, he said THIS in 2010, therefore..." We do it in countless ways. "So and so used the N-word back in college! Punish him now because he's clearly a racist!" We as a society consistently define people by their worst, and best, depending on your argument, moments.
-
The ONLY way I see this happening is if Mangini steps aside or retires.
We know Portnoy wants back in but he keeps himself occupied with other bands and I think he has too much pride to ask at this point. On the flip side I don’t see the band firing Mangini. The band appears to be Petrucci’s baby, he pretty much has near full control on the direction of that band and he has a drummer who will go with the flow and is capable of playing anything Petrucci needs, musically. There’s zero incentive for DT to bring MP back besides fan service. Yes, JP and MP are buds but that’s what weekend projects like LTE and solo albums are for.
AT BEST I think we might get a “kitchen sink” tour similar to the Van Halen/Van Hagar plan towards the end of the bands run where Portnoy plays Portnoy songs and Mangini plays Mangini songs- something that gives the fans what they want AND is low commitment.
I guess I don't understand these opinions that rely on what other people - who haven't said anything about it that wasn't a press release - feel. If Bosk - who KNOWS them, to the point of being able to pick up the phone and call them - won't speculate on how they feel about this, why should we? I don't think we know that Portnoy wants back in. I also don't know - at this point - anything about what his "pride" will or will not dictate. People change. People age. People come to grips with things. People evolve. I've been watching the Transatlantic and Neal Morse documentaries recently and I'm amazed at what I see in those films as Mike being a lot more collaborative and giving in terms of working with those around him. Twenty years with Neal Morse - not a shrinking violet himself - might have that effect on someone.
Agreed, but Portnoy was even like that with Neal back in the 00's, even in the latter part of the decade when he was power tripping with DT, which goes back to a point I made years ago that Portnoy is almost like a different person when he is around Neal Morse. I am sure the power dynamic is a part of it. Remember the clip from a few years ago (cannot remember which Neal or NMB album it was) where Neal wanted Portnoy to redo a drum part, and Portnoy kind of sighed and said something to the effect of (paraphrasing), "can't you just fix that in post-production?", and Neal fired back that it is better to go back and do it right. I doubt anyone in DT, even Petrucci, would have had the balls to say something like that to him once he got on his power trip where he was the leader and the one to call the shots. Portnoy basically had free reign to say and do anything he wanted with DT the last few years and no one was going to stop him, and I don't see any way that he could return and a similar scenario exists. Even if he and JLB could make peace to where they could work together again, I could see Portnoy returning as a producer being a deal-breaker for James. I don't see letting Portnoy come back to tell him how and what to sing is a concession he would make.
Sorry Kev, but that's the case at all. Sure MP *was* calling a lot of the shots without JP or anyone else disagreeing to the point of vetoing, but that doesn't mean he was calling all of them nor always getting his way. There three publicly known reasons why that this is true: the limits that the band had on how long they would tour for a given leg, the "angry" vocals on ANtR and when MP wanted a hiatus.
• Since JR's been in the band and maybe even before (can't remember off the top of my head), DT's never done a leg of a tour longer than 5-6 weeks. A lot of that could be attributed to JP (see the lyrics to Endless Sacrifice) but probably the other guys, too. MP *loves* being out on the road and has repeatedly gone straight from one tour onto another or intermixing dates with different bands, especially after leaving DT. Had MP had full control of everything in DT, it wouldn't take much to figure that he would push for longer tour legs, especially considering all the cities/markets that DT skip over. In fact, I can remember a typical response he would give when fans would ask why their city was getting skipped this time around, and he would say something to the effect of "we had to skip it because we're going to other cities that we haven't visited yet". Had there not been those limits enforced by JP and perhaps others, I'm sure MP would have pushed to see to it that all those cities were covered.
• When the controversy of his vocals on ANtR came up, he posted on his forum all the steps and variations he, JP and JL went through, largely at the behest of JP before finally coming up with the "angry" vocals that ended up on the album, as opposed to the full on cookie monster that MP wanted to do.
• When MP wanted the hiatus, the band stood up to him.
Now, how many other situations happened where JP and/or others stood up to MP? Who knows, but it stands to reason that there are other instances. In fact, although it happened back in 2003, you could consider the situation where JL resisted MP's suggestion of doing a cover of Ozzy's Revelation Mother Earth to be another example (they ended up doing Diary of a Madman instead).
So no, it's not exactly the way you're painting it Kev. Was he *a* leader of the band along with JP? Absolutely. Was he the dictator of the band? No.
Not to deflect from what is otherwise an excellent post, and certainly not for controversy purposes, but out of curiosity, I would love to know why that song in particular was unacceptable. Depending on the point of view, there are more... explicit lyrics that James has sung both in covers and original songs. I love Diary, but I would have LOVED to hear the band play the outro to RME.
-
I never said he was a dictator, so that renders that point moot, and the band pushing back on the hiatus felt like their "come to Jesus" moment where they had enough of being bossed around and put their collective foot down.
The vocal moment on ANTR ended still being way closer to what Portnoy wanted than what was normal for the band. See: how JLB sang that section on the last tour and then go to listen to legit death growls. The vocals that ended up on the studio version are far closer to death growls than how JLB sang them. So, even though there was a slight concession, which was a normal part of the songwriting process, Portnoy still largely got what he wanted in that instance.
The touring thing is pure speculation, and thus fairly irrelevant in this conversation.
I don't expect the members of Portnoy's unofficial legal defense team to agree with me, but that is okay.
-
I never said he was a dictator, so that renders that point moot, and the band pushing back on the hiatus felt like their "come to Jesus" moment where they had enough of being bossed around and put their collective foot down.
The vocal moment on ANTR ended still being way closer to what Portnoy wanted than what was normal for the band. See: how JLB sang that section on the last tour and then go to listen to legit death growls. The vocals that ended up on the studio version are far closer to death growls than how JLB sang them. So, even though there was a slight concession, which was a normal part of the songwriting process, Portnoy still largely got what he wanted in that instance.
The touring thing is pure speculation, and thus fairly irrelevant in this conversation.
I don't expect the members of Portnoy's unofficial legal defense team to agree with me, but that is okay.
All of this. Especially the bolded part :lol
-
I never said he was a dictator, so that renders that point moot, and the band pushing back on the hiatus felt like their "come to Jesus" moment where they had enough of being bossed around and put their collective foot down.
The vocal moment on ANTR ended still being way closer to what Portnoy wanted than what was normal for the band. See: how JLB sang that section on the last tour and then go to listen to legit death growls. The vocals that ended up on the studio version are far closer to death growls than how JLB sang them. So, even though there was a slight concession, which was a normal part of the songwriting process, Portnoy still largely got what he wanted in that instance.
The touring thing is pure speculation, and thus fairly irrelevant in this conversation.
I don't expect the members of Portnoy's unofficial legal defense team to agree with me, but that is okay.
All of this. Especially the bolded part :lol
I can't speak to anyone else, but being a lawyer and seeing the "legal", this isn't about DEFENDING Mike Portnoy. It's about incorporating more information - ALL the information - not just that which furthers the perception. Not truth, but perception. I'm not even saying you or Kev are wrong; you may be right. It's far more about pushing back on what reads to be 'written in stone certainty', and what doesn't seem to have very much if any allowance for human nature. Maybe it's me, and all the therapy, but don't any of you change your mind? Change your analysis of a situation? Change your reaction to things? Change your priority on things? Change your approach to certain circumstances? Maybe it's because I've gone through a divorce, but it's a LOT of work, and a LOT of angst to hang on to things from ten years ago like they were yesterday.
And it's not like there's not precedent for this; Steve Harris. He's clearly evolved, and learned, and grown to the point that Maiden is actually better and more stable now than it was back in the day, before Dickinson leaving.
-
I can't speak to anyone else, but being a lawyer and seeing the "legal", this isn't about DEFENDING Mike Portnoy. It's about incorporating more information - ALL the information - not just that which furthers the perception. Not truth, but perception. I'm not even saying you or Kev are wrong; you may be right. It's far more about pushing back on what reads to be 'written in stone certainty', and what doesn't seem to have very much if any allowance for human nature. Maybe it's me, and all the therapy, but don't any of you change your mind? Change your analysis of a situation? Change your reaction to things? Change your priority on things? Change your approach to certain circumstances? Maybe it's because I've gone through a divorce, but it's a LOT of work, and a LOT of angst to hang on to things from ten years ago like they were yesterday.
And it's not like there's not precedent for this; Steve Harris. He's clearly evolved, and learned, and grown to the point that Maiden is actually better and more stable now than it was back in the day, before Dickinson leaving.
All fair points, and to circle back to someone I have said a few times lately, I do think Mike Portnoy has seemingly mellowed a bit as he has gotten older. Being in 191 bands with Neal Morse helps ;), as, like I said, he just seems different when he is around Neal, who seems to have a calming influence on him. Maybe that would translate if he were ever to return to Dream Theater. Hard to say.
As we have discussed, there would likely have to be concessions made for him to return to the band. As I said earlier, I don't see any way JLB would want him to return as a producer; on the flip side, I don't see Portnoy wanting to come back and play too many songs from the Mangini era live, so the band would probably have to come to some agreement about how set lists are devised rather than returning to the "Portnoy writes them all" method. I think Portnoy knows that he couldn't return and run the ship as he sees fit again, but I don't think he'd come back without being granted control over certain things.
-
Is there any substance to the detail "MP wouldn't want to play Mangini's songs"? or just speculation / assumption? it's not that Mangini played on one or two albums that bombed and stinked, he's at his fifth album and all were at the very least nicely received, with the obvious Astonishing exception.
Also, MP doesn't look to me that ego-striken or vindicative to assume he would never, ever play someone else's songs. It's DT, it's not Sabbath with / without Ozzy, can you imagine MP returning, the band playing Breaking All Illusions and everyone going "oh shit, what a dumb choice, we want to hear Portnoy songs"? come on....
-
Is there any substance to the detail "MP wouldn't want to play Mangini's songs"? or just speculation / assumption? it's not that Mangini played on one or two albums that bombed and stinked, he's at his fifth album and all were at the very least nicely received, with the obvious Astonishing exception.
Also, MP doesn't look to me that ego-striken or vindicative to assume he would never, ever play someone else's songs. It's DT, it's not Sabbath with / without Ozzy, can you imagine MP returning, the band playing Breaking All Illusions and everyone going "oh shit, what a dumb choice, we want to hear Portnoy songs"? come on....
MP has said as much. From memory, it was with regards to Derek playing Acid Rain. Mike said, and I'll have to paraphrase, "I told him that I understand he wouldn't want to play any of Jordan's parts because I wouldn't want to play Mangini's parts, but the crowd would go crazy for it." Later, and I forget the context, it may have been whether Sons of Apollo would play any other DT songs other than Falling Into Infinity songs, Mike said, and again, paraphrasing here, "Derek has as much interest in playing Jordan's parts as I have playing The Astonishing!"
So yeah, not a flat out refusal, but let's be real, there would be a real struggle to make it happen if he ever rejoined.
Then again, Slash is playing a ton of Chinese Democracy songs and Axl even pulled out Velvet Revolver's "Slither" but they also have a much more limited catalog and a few millions dollars more PER HOUR on the line.
-
There's no doubt that MP playing with DT would be PR gold.
Yeah, but PR gold does not mean that it would be beneficial for either party. It would mostly be beneficial for the handful of fans that have lots of free time in their hands and they decide to pour it into constantly posting stuff to the effect of "DT died when MP left". For the band? Sure, it would definitely get attention and the prog world (which happens to be really small if you look at it from a greater perspective) would circle around it for a while but DT is no Pink Floyd. We would not be getting any sort of epic world-turning event if, by any means of miracles and unexpected turns of fate, MP came back.
Call me a party bummer, but either way I cannot see any sort of use in discussing something that is not going to happen. But hey, maybe that's just me tired of discussing the same thing over and over for the past 11 years; although this time around clearly the joke is on me for exploring and contributing to a thread that is speculating the chances of MP coming back to the band lol.
-
Is there any substance to the detail "MP wouldn't want to play Mangini's songs"? or just speculation / assumption? it's not that Mangini played on one or two albums that bombed and stinked, he's at his fifth album and all were at the very least nicely received, with the obvious Astonishing exception.
Also, MP doesn't look to me that ego-striken or vindicative to assume he would never, ever play someone else's songs. It's DT, it's not Sabbath with / without Ozzy, can you imagine MP returning, the band playing Breaking All Illusions and everyone going "oh shit, what a dumb choice, we want to hear Portnoy songs"? come on....
MP has said as much. From memory, it was with regards to Derek playing Acid Rain. Mike said, and I'll have to paraphrase, "I told him that I understand he wouldn't want to play any of Jordan's parts because I wouldn't want to play Mangini's parts, but the crowd would go crazy for it." Later, and I forget the context, it may have been whether Sons of Apollo would play any other DT songs other than Falling Into Infinity songs, Mike said, and again, paraphrasing here, "Derek has as much interest in playing Jordan's parts as I have playing The Astonishing!"
So yeah, not a flat out refusal, but let's be real, there would be a real struggle to make it happen if he ever rejoined.
Then again, Slash is playing a ton of Chinese Democracy songs and Axl even pulled out Velvet Revolver's "Slither" but they also have a much more limited catalog and a few millions dollars more PER HOUR on the line.
"Wanting to" and "actually doing" are not the same thing. And I wouldn't put one statement meant to make a point as gospel truth given the actual premise and a yes/no decision requirement.
The list of Slash/Sammy Hagar/Bruce Dickinson's are far longer than the lists of David Lee Roth/Ian Gillans/Jon Andersons. And if you note, those are all SINGERS. Singing someone else's WORDS may be a different matter since "subject matter" is a component there as well.
If we want other instruments, both Ace and Peter played stuff that they weren't on. Adrian Smith plays on stuff he didn't record. Steve Howe plays several Trevor Rabin songs, by all accounts against his first choice. Rick Wakeman plays anything you put in front of him.
Can we really name a drummer that has flat out refused to play that which came before him? MAYBE Bill Bruford in Crimson (though he did play Schizoid Man).
-
C'mon man, can you honestly say you think Mike would have no problem or even very little problem doing that? He couldn't even say Mike Mangini's in interviews for the longest time (or maybe he still never has), let alone play his parts.
Granted, I don't think he has made any statement regarding it in a few years and he seems to have mellowed out, but all evidence points to a big fat NO WAY.
-
All I can honestly say is "I don't know".
Maybe it's my experience, maybe it's something more universal, but I do know that there are decisions that CANNOT be made other than in that moment. What are the trade-offs? What are the discussions around this point?
Hell, when I saw Page and Plant - you know, those Zeppelin guys - Robert Plant sang a Coverdale/Page song (Shake My Tree). Why in God's name would the greatest front man of all time, the Rock God himself, deign to sing a song written by a man he himself called "David Coverversion". Nothing to gain, everything to lose, and yet... Anything is possible under the right circumstances, and I choose to give Mike the opportunity to make that decision for himself when the time comes.
-
I guess of the options here (which don't entirely make sense to me) I would go with the 25% (anything could happen).
But it's not going to happen, unless MM decides to leave the band before the rest of the guys are ready to hang it up.
-
DT's trajectory was constantly going up while MP was in the band.
That depends on what measures you use. Given that the last two MP albums are generally considered to be at the bottom of most folks' album rankings, that's at least one measure that was NOT going up.
The last album with MP was the highest charting album of theirs to date, in the US.
While that's true, chart position fluctuated over MP's term. Albums from I&W through BC&SL hit the following positions in the U.S.: 61, 32, 52, 73, 46, 53, 36, 19, 6. What that means is that the two albums generally regarded as two of their best were the two worst-charting albums during MP's tenure, while the last two albums, which are generally regarded as two of the worst, were the two best-charting albums. Also, if you look at SC through DOT, the albums charted at 19, 6, 8, 7, 11, 24. The last six albums are their six highest charting albums. Is that because DT is more popular than ever or is producing its best work? I suspect there's something a bit more random at work.
Also, according to sales data cited and sourced on Wikipedia, DT's six best selling albums were I&W through TOT, while BC&SL (the band's highest-charting album) was its worst seller since WDADU (and SC did only slightly better). In other words, according to this data, the sales trajectory from SDOIT through BC&SL was doing the exact opposite of going up.
Since he left, they may not have lost popularity, but their popularity has remained relatively the same since, and not increased from my perspective.
I'd say that, in terms of chart performance, that's true. However, according to the data mentioned above, DOT, outsold BC&SL by more than 2 to 1.
-
Is there any substance to the detail "MP wouldn't want to play Mangini's songs"? or just speculation / assumption? it's not that Mangini played on one or two albums that bombed and stinked, he's at his fifth album and all were at the very least nicely received, with the obvious Astonishing exception.
Also, MP doesn't look to me that ego-striken or vindicative to assume he would never, ever play someone else's songs. It's DT, it's not Sabbath with / without Ozzy, can you imagine MP returning, the band playing Breaking All Illusions and everyone going "oh shit, what a dumb choice, we want to hear Portnoy songs"? come on....
MP has said as much. From memory, it was with regards to Derek playing Acid Rain. Mike said, and I'll have to paraphrase, "I told him that I understand he wouldn't want to play any of Jordan's parts because I wouldn't want to play Mangini's parts, but the crowd would go crazy for it." Later, and I forget the context, it may have been whether Sons of Apollo would play any other DT songs other than Falling Into Infinity songs, Mike said, and again, paraphrasing here, "Derek has as much interest in playing Jordan's parts as I have playing The Astonishing!"
So yeah, not a flat out refusal, but let's be real, there would be a real struggle to make it happen if he ever rejoined.
Yeah, I remember both examples you're citing. Just a little correction on the bolded, it was back when MP announced the Shattered Fortress tour he was going to do and the band lineup hadn't been revealed yet. Coincidentially, he had just announced the start of a new band with Derek, so people asked him on Facebook if Derek was going to be the keyboardist for the Shattered Fortress tour, and that's when Mike said Derek is as interested in playing Jordan's parts as he is interested in playing anything from The Astonishing.
As a fun side note, Derek isn't even as interested in playing his own DT parts either. There was an interview back after the first SOA album had been released where he was asked about playing Anna Lee live and he said he has no desire to play that one :lol
-
All I can honestly say is "I don't know".
Maybe it's my experience, maybe it's something more universal, but I do know that there are decisions that CANNOT be made other than in that moment. What are the trade-offs? What are the discussions around this point?
Hell, when I saw Page and Plant - you know, those Zeppelin guys - Robert Plant sang a Coverdale/Page song (Shake My Tree). Why in God's name would the greatest front man of all time, the Rock God himself, deign to sing a song written by a man he himself called "David Coverversion". Nothing to gain, everything to lose, and yet... Anything is possible under the right circumstances, and I choose to give Mike the opportunity to make that decision for himself when the time comes.
Well yeah. Obviously the proper answer for anyone is "I don't know." I'm just saying that MP has offered multiple examples of why he wouldn't and zero examples of why he would. So based on that alone, then no, he would not play any Mangini songs. That said, you offered some examples of how it is possible and I offered some too. I bet if MP were to answer honestly, even he would have to say "I don't know."
-
All I can honestly say is "I don't know".
Maybe it's my experience, maybe it's something more universal, but I do know that there are decisions that CANNOT be made other than in that moment. What are the trade-offs? What are the discussions around this point?
Hell, when I saw Page and Plant - you know, those Zeppelin guys - Robert Plant sang a Coverdale/Page song (Shake My Tree). Why in God's name would the greatest front man of all time, the Rock God himself, deign to sing a song written by a man he himself called "David Coverversion". Nothing to gain, everything to lose, and yet... Anything is possible under the right circumstances, and I choose to give Mike the opportunity to make that decision for himself when the time comes.
Well yeah. Obviously the proper answer for anyone is "I don't know." I'm just saying that MP has offered multiple examples of why he wouldn't and zero examples of why he would. So based on that alone, then no, he would not play any Mangini songs. That said, you offered some examples of how it is possible and I offered some too. I bet if MP were to answer honestly, even he would have to say "I don't know."
Not necessarily you, but there are people here that are not allowing for Mike to say "I don't know". At least in terms of the language used, there is no grey area, he WILL NOT play that material, as if they know something we don't. There are just too many examples of people finding some different way of looking at things later in life that I'm more a "never say never" guy.
-
I want to see a two drummer tour where Mike P plays the songs from the Mangini era and Mike M plays the songs from the Portnoy era.
-
I wonder how many more albums they have left in them ? Jordan is in his 60s and Mangini is not far behind. An all acoustic album on the horizon ?
15 albums is a nice round number but obviously i don't think they should call it a day just yet.
I also don't think they will last 5 more albums. One every 3 years is another 15 years and Jordan will be 80.
Finally Free If one more member leaves the band I think they will stop.
-
I wonder how many more albums they have left in them ? Jordan is in his 60s and Mangini is not far behind.
An all acoustic album on the horizon ?
:facepalm:
I hope to hell NOT! They already "jumped the Shark" with the "astonishing" :mehlin Let's not do that again. An scoustic tour? Yes, that could be interesting, but that's as far as that should go.
-
Spoiler Alert : Not everyone HATED The Astonishing.
-
All I can honestly say is "I don't know".
Maybe it's my experience, maybe it's something more universal, but I do know that there are decisions that CANNOT be made other than in that moment. What are the trade-offs? What are the discussions around this point?
Hell, when I saw Page and Plant - you know, those Zeppelin guys - Robert Plant sang a Coverdale/Page song (Shake My Tree). Why in God's name would the greatest front man of all time, the Rock God himself, deign to sing a song written by a man he himself called "David Coverversion". Nothing to gain, everything to lose, and yet... Anything is possible under the right circumstances, and I choose to give Mike the opportunity to make that decision for himself when the time comes.
Well yeah. Obviously the proper answer for anyone is "I don't know." I'm just saying that MP has offered multiple examples of why he wouldn't and zero examples of why he would. So based on that alone, then no, he would not play any Mangini songs. That said, you offered some examples of how it is possible and I offered some too. I bet if MP were to answer honestly, even he would have to say "I don't know."
Not necessarily you, but there are people here that are not allowing for Mike to say "I don't know". At least in terms of the language used, there is no grey area, he WILL NOT play that material, as if they know something we don't. There are just too many examples of people finding some different way of looking at things later in life that I'm more a "never say never" guy.
Wouldn't hate the idea of a Dream Theater "co-headline bill" with themselves ;)
First set = 75 minutes of MM era set (w MM)
second set & encore = 100 minute set of MP era (w MP)
-
Spoiler Alert : Not everyone HATED The Astonishing.
VERY true, but it was certainly not received well universally.
-
Finally Free If one more member leaves the band I think they will stop.
It really would depend on the "member". I agree if JP hanged it up they'd be done, but any of the others (some much more than others) are very replaceable.
-
Not sure how The Astonishing is somehow "jumping the shark," since it was actually a very counter-popular move for them to make regardless of how the album ended up being received. That statement makes no sense.
-
Not sure how The Astonishing is somehow "jumping the shark," since it was actually a very counter-popular move for them to make regardless of how the album ended up being received. That statement makes no sense.
As was that HD episode, no? Maybe I'm wrong. :huh:
-
I wonder how many more albums they have left in them ?
WWRD: Rush's last major tour was in celebration of the 40th anniversary of their debut album. Applying the same logic to Dream Theater, the 40th anniversary of When Dream & Day Unite is in 2029, so I think they have about 3 albums left in them after View.
Obviously I'd hope for more, but 18 albums is a nice number.
-
How about this?
Mike Portnoy, John Petrucci, John Myung, Jordan Rudess...
Reunite, record and tour as...
Nightmare Cinema!
They just take the old joke and make it for real.
All instrumental. New material, and some of the instrumental DT, and some of the collective solo releases from years back, even some LTE.
-
How about this?
Mike Portnoy, John Petrucci, John Myung, Jordan Rudess...
Reunite, record and tour as...
Nightmare Cinema!
They just take the old joke and make it for real.
All instrumental. New material, and some of the instrumental DT, and some of the collective solo releases from years back, even some LTE.
Some folks homer in their first at bat. And then.....
Not sure how The Astonishing is somehow "jumping the shark," since it was actually a very counter-popular move for them to make regardless of how the album ended up being received. That statement makes no sense.
As was that HD episode, no? Maybe I'm wrong. :huh:
The interesting thing is that the shark episode was the third of a three-part series of episodes at the start of the show's fifth season, and the show went on to run for eleven seasons, so....
-
Spoiler Alert : Not everyone HATED The Astonishing.
VERY true, but it was certainly not received well universally.
Loud minority. Unlike with two of DT albums (Images and Scenes), people who appreciate an album (without considering it the greatest thing ever), will rarely talk about it, or will find praise redundant. If you check the comments in TA songs, many people are praising Mangini and LaBrie too. The album had many positive reviews, and to my knowledge, it sold well (same for the tour).
It doesn't help a lot of people, and I don't mean this in a pretentious way, don't understand Musical Theatre tropes and how the "albums" are made (for example, lengthy albums are normal, and fun fact: Hamilton, insanely popular and considered amazing, is longer than The Astonishing in length).
I want to see a two drummer tour where Mike P plays the songs from the Mangini era and Mike M plays the songs from the Portnoy era.
Imagine Breaking All Illusions with all those 30 y/o RLKK fills... torture :censored :rollin
-
How about this?
Mike Portnoy, John Petrucci, John Myung, Jordan Rudess...
Reunite, record and tour as...
Nightmare Cinema!
They just take the old joke and make it for real.
All instrumental. New material, and some of the instrumental DT, and some of the collective solo releases from years back, even some LTE.
Hoping this won’t be your best effort if you plan on hanging around . . .
-
How about this?
Mike Portnoy, John Petrucci, John Myung, Jordan Rudess...
Reunite, record and tour as...
Nightmare Cinema!
They just take the old joke and make it for real.
All instrumental. New material, and some of the instrumental DT, and some of the collective solo releases from years back, even some LTE.
Hoping this won’t be your best effort if you plan on hanging around . . .
:rollin
-
How about this?
Mike Portnoy, John Petrucci, John Myung, Jordan Rudess...
Reunite, record and tour as...
Nightmare Cinema!
They just take the old joke and make it for real.
All instrumental. New material, and some of the instrumental DT, and some of the collective solo releases from years back, even some LTE.
To re-unite Nightmare Cinema wouldn't you have to involve Derek instead of Jordan?
-
How about this?
Mike Portnoy, John Petrucci, John Myung, Jordan Rudess...
Reunite, record and tour as...
Nightmare Cinema!
They just take the old joke and make it for real.
All instrumental. New material, and some of the instrumental DT, and some of the collective solo releases from years back, even some LTE.
To re-unite Nightmare Cinema wouldn't you have to involve Derek instead of Jordan?
Good point. JR was never a member of Nightmare Cinema. Not that a reunion would ever happen anyway in that regard.
-
Well Nightmare Cinema was never really a 'band", so I don't think it would have to have Sherinian for it to make sense. It was just a fun thing they'd do sometimes.
As much as I would love it I just can't see MP ever rejoining DT, unless it's for a one off event in NYC, like a charity event per se.
Especially considering Labrie, and how Mangini is just the drummer now, it just doesn't seem in the cards, and we're all over it, right?
Unless Mangini wanted to retire and teach full time again?
So... I could imagine MP pitching an idea to reunite in a sort of typically MP tongue-in-cheek sort of way, as Nightmare Cinema, the closest thing to a DT reunion.
Also I am like joking .... but come on, it would be hilarious, AND awesome.
And god no, I am not suggesting Portnoy on Bass, Petrucci on Drums etc... just the name would be the "joke", a REFERENCE to DT, but a full real album, tour, etc. Fun.
Or it could just play out as a whole new project, no DT references at all, but with the 4 of them.
Imagine a fully instrumental "DT" album. 80 minutes of "Stream of Consciousness".
A more likely scenario over him actually ever rejoining. IMO
-
No offence 8B, but I cringe at the mere mention of Nightmare Cinema. I liken the whole FII album and tour cycle like a person's gawky pimple faced braces wearing tube socks pulled up preteen years.
Save for the Christmas '98 shows. Those were excellent.
-
Well Nightmare Cinema was never really a 'band", so I don't think it would have to have Sherinian for it to make sense. It was just a fun thing they'd do sometimes.
As much as I would love it I just can't see MP ever rejoining DT, unless it's for a one off event in NYC, like a charity event per se.
Especially considering Labrie, and how Mangini is just the drummer now, it just doesn't seem in the cards, and we're all over it, right?
Unless Mangini wanted to retire and teach full time again?
So... I could imagine MP pitching an idea to reunite in a sort of typically MP tongue-in-cheek sort of way, as Nightmare Cinema, the closest thing to a DT reunion.
Also I am like joking .... but come on, it would be hilarious, AND awesome.
And god no, I am not suggesting Portnoy on Bass, Petrucci on Drums etc... just the name would be the "joke", a REFERENCE to DT, but a full real album, tour, etc. Fun.
Or it could just play out as a whole new project, no DT references at all, but with the 4 of them.
Imagine a fully instrumental "DT" album. 80 minutes of "Stream of Consciousness".
A more likely scenario over him actually ever rejoining. IMO
We already got LTE 3 which is the same sans Myung, and I think it was enough to play the nostalgia card (both for them and the fans). Petrucci also recorded his second solo album with Portnoy. I think they got the need to play together off their system.
On a more personal note, I would love an instrumental project with Mangini, Petrucci, Myung and Rudess.
-
A few thoughts on the various discussions so far:
- I don't think there's essentially any chance of MM getting the boot in order to make room for MP to come back. I get the sense that interpersonal relationships in the band are generally in a good place right now and they all seem to be comfortable with the dynamics in place.
- If the band was on what they knew ahead of time to be a farewell tour, I would be surprised if MP didn't get up on stage to play a song at the NYC show or something like that. His relationship with 3/4 of the other members is good enough that I think JLB would live with a one-off song performance even if it might not be his personal preference.
- If MM left the band of his own volition and the rest of the guys wanted to continue on with tour cycles and continuing to record new music I think there's a decent chance that MP could be brought back into the fold (though not with the same degree of control over certain things that he had once upon a time). I also wouldn't be surprised if the band sought to find a new drummer either though.
- If MM left the band of his own volition and the rest of the guys wanted to do one final farewell tour for the fans, I think MP would be the overwhelming favorite to be behind the kit. I think MP would ultimately agree to play a MM era song or two if that's what was needed to make things happen.
-
Agreed on all points, brother.
-
No offence 8B, but I cringe at the mere mention of Nightmare Cinema. I liken the whole FII album and tour cycle like a person's gawky pimple faced braces wearing tube socks pulled up preteen years.
Save for the Christmas '98 shows. Those were excellent.
Nice analogy!
-
- If the band was on what they knew ahead of time to be a farewell tour, I would be surprised if MP didn't get up on stage to play a song at the NYC show or something like that. His relationship with 3/4 of the other members is good enough that I think JLB would live with a one-off song performance even if it might not be his personal preference.
I could be wrong, but I don't get the sense that James would have a problem with him coming back even for a full tour if it were a farewell tour.
-
- If the band was on what they knew ahead of time to be a farewell tour, I would be surprised if MP didn't get up on stage to play a song at the NYC show or something like that. His relationship with 3/4 of the other members is good enough that I think JLB would live with a one-off song performance even if it might not be his personal preference.
I could be wrong, but I don't get the sense that James would have a problem with him coming back even for a full tour if it were a farewell tour.
I don't get that sense either. At their ages especially and in service of the business of the band they both love so much, I have a feeling they would just shake hands and say "sup" as if nothing ever happened.
NOW. Maybe some fans on here would prefer JLB to keep to himself because they're pissed about what MP's said about him over the years, and maybe some MP fans would prefer if MP would keep to himself because JLB didn't reach out to MP/didn't let us know if he did, and they see that as unduly cold. But I have a feeling both of those factions care more about that stuff than the guys themselves. Before all of that happened they were friends for 25+ years.
-
- If the band was on what they knew ahead of time to be a farewell tour, I would be surprised if MP didn't get up on stage to play a song at the NYC show or something like that. His relationship with 3/4 of the other members is good enough that I think JLB would live with a one-off song performance even if it might not be his personal preference.
I could be wrong, but I don't get the sense that James would have a problem with him coming back even for a full tour if it were a farewell tour.
Neither do I, but to me in this scenario MM is still in the band and they know ahead of time it's a farewell tour. I don't think they'd kick Mangini just to make room for MP for a farewell tour. Whereas the last bullet point in my post is that if the band wanted to do a farewell tour but MM wasn't in the picture anymore (either chose to leave unexpectedly or had something happen where he couldn't serve as drummer anymore), I think that even JLB would get on board with bringing back MP rather than finding a new drummer just for one last tour.
-
GUYS ITS SO EASY
Mike Portnoy : Toms Bass and Snare
Mike Mangini : Cymbals
-
I know John mentioned in 2011 that the current line up will not change. So that's that then.
Got link?
yes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0su0n0CBXsg
-
Not to argue, just offer another level of fact, in 2011, I:
- said I would never get divorced (I'm since divorced and remarried);
- said I would never leave Philly (I've moved from Philly to Erie, then to Connecticut, then once in Connecticut I've lived in four places);
- said I would never take a student loan for my daughter (I have);
- said I would drive my current car - a BMW X3 - until it failed (I have not; I gave it to my daughter, temporarily, and have in the last week put it up for sale);
- said I would never leave GE again (I have; I now work for a global transportation company)
I'm sure there are others.
-
I know John mentioned in 2011 that the current line up will not change. So that's that then.
Got link?
yes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0su0n0CBXsg
He did not say, "the current line up will not change." He was responding to questions, and we didn't get to hear the questions, and this was at a time when there was a LOT of stuff going on, such as MP starting litigation and publicly saying that he wanted back in. What JP said was that MM was a full member and that he'd "like to think" the then-current lineup would ever change. He also acknowledged that, if the same (unknown) question had been asked before MP left, he'd have given the same answer. That's a far cry from "the current line up will not change."
-
I know John mentioned in 2011 that the current line up will not change. So that's that then.
Got link?
yes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0su0n0CBXsg
It's been AGES since I've seen that clip. But, yeah, it's about how I remembered it, and how others have described. To paraphrase, it's essentially: "Mike Mangini is a permanent member of DT, and we have no intention of that ever changing. But you never know what's going to happen in the future."
And in line with that last line, JP even says that if you asked him whether the previous lineup with Portnoy was the permanent lineup in perpetuity, that he would have said yes, obviously not knowing that things were going to change and Portnoy was going to leave.
I think the important thing to keep in mind is that, as I, and Kev, and some others have said, they have expressed that, when they brought in Mangini, their intent was to have him join as a full member and not a temporary hired gun. They had, and do not have, any intention of looking for a replacement. But that doesn't mean that things don't change. He could decide to leave on his own. Or he could be asked to step down. And if that happened and the band wanted to continue, they would consider replacements. Depending on how everyone involved feels, that could be Portnoy. Or it could be someone else. And the result could likely look very different depending on the timing and circumstances, were Mangini ever to exit the band for any reason.
EDIT: Or what PG and Stadler said--although my post was much more eloquent than theirs, so you can feel free to disregard theirs and read mine only, and just "+1" it twice. :biggrin:
-
EDIT: Or what PG and Stadler said--although my post was much more eloquent than theirs, so you can feel free to disregard theirs and read mine only, and just "+1" it twice. :biggrin:
(https://c.tenor.com/-ifMoleTroUAAAAM/why-i-outta.gif)
-
I feel like mine had the human touch to it.
:) :) :) :) :)
-
GUYS ITS SO EASY
Mike Portnoy : Toms Bass and Snare
Mike Mangini : Cymbals
I’d switch those. Mangini’s fills are way more interesting, but nobody makes a pair of hi-hats sing like Portnoy.
-
GUYS ITS SO EASY
Mike Portnoy : Toms Bass and Snare
Mike Mangini : Cymbals
I’d switch those. Mangini’s fills are way more interesting, but nobody makes a pair of hi-hats sing like Portnoy.
Not just the hi-hats. Portnoy's cymbal work in general is really cool and creative.
-
But would he be able to reach high enough to play them is the real question?
-
But would he be able to reach high enough to play them is the real question?
This feels like height shaming...
:P :P
-
But would he be able to reach high enough to play them is the real question?
This feels like height shaming...
:P :P
Cymbal height shaming
-
Both Mikes are short arses.
-
GUYS ITS SO EASY
Mike Portnoy : Toms Bass and Snare
Mike Mangini : Cymbals
I’d switch those. Mangini’s fills are way more interesting, but nobody makes a pair of hi-hats sing like Portnoy.
Not just the hi-hats. Portnoy's cymbal work in general is really cool and creative.
Agree 100%. It’s the thing I love the most about his drumming.
-
GUYS ITS SO EASY
Mike Portnoy : Toms Bass and Snare
Mike Mangini : Cymbals
I’d switch those. Mangini’s fills are way more interesting, but nobody makes a pair of hi-hats sing like Portnoy.
Counterpoint: Guy Evans from Van Der Graaf Generator
-
GUYS ITS SO EASY
Mike Portnoy : Toms Bass and Snare
Mike Mangini : Cymbals
I’d switch those. Mangini’s fills are way more interesting, but nobody makes a pair of hi-hats sing like Portnoy.
Stewart Copeland
Carter Beauford
-
Not to argue, just offer another level of fact, in 2011, I:
- said I would never get divorced (I'm since divorced and remarried);
- said I would never leave Philly (I've moved from Philly to Erie, then to Connecticut, then once in Connecticut I've lived in four places);
- said I would never take a student loan for my daughter (I have);
- said I would drive my current car - a BMW X3 - until it failed (I have not; I gave it to my daughter, temporarily, and have in the last week put it up for sale);
- said I would never leave GE again (I have; I now work for a global transportation company)
I'm sure there are others.
Damn dude, have you no integrity whatsoever? :lol
-
Not to argue, just offer another level of fact, in 2011, I:
- said I would never get divorced (I'm since divorced and remarried);
- said I would never leave Philly (I've moved from Philly to Erie, then to Connecticut, then once in Connecticut I've lived in four places);
- said I would never take a student loan for my daughter (I have);
- said I would drive my current car - a BMW X3 - until it failed (I have not; I gave it to my daughter, temporarily, and have in the last week put it up for sale);
- said I would never leave GE again (I have; I now work for a global transportation company)
I'm sure there are others.
Damn dude, have you no integrity whatsoever? :lol
Just teaches you not to use the word 'Never' so often :-P
-
Not to argue, just offer another level of fact, in 2011, I:
- said I would never get divorced (I'm since divorced and remarried);
- said I would never leave Philly (I've moved from Philly to Erie, then to Connecticut, then once in Connecticut I've lived in four places);
- said I would never take a student loan for my daughter (I have);
- said I would drive my current car - a BMW X3 - until it failed (I have not; I gave it to my daughter, temporarily, and have in the last week put it up for sale);
- said I would never leave GE again (I have; I now work for a global transportation company)
I'm sure there are others.
Damn dude, have you no integrity whatsoever? :lol
Just teaches you not to use the word 'Never' so often :-P
I learned a long time ago, man plans and God laughs.
-
Both Mikes are short arses.
I've never met MP, but Mangini is fucking TINY. The first time I met him, I seriously weighed my chances of just putting him in my pocket and taking him home with me.
-
I'm just under 5'7" and he looks even shorter than me. I bet if I sat at his kit - the hi hats would be in the normal place for me haha.
No but i'd love to see a really tall drummer sit at Mangini's kit and see how easy it is for him to reach the cymbals.
Edit : i just googled his height just for fun and one site said he is 5'8" which he blatantly isn't. Petrucci maybe.
-
Both Mikes are short arses.
I've never met MP, but Mangini is fucking TINY. The first time I met him, I seriously weighed my chances of just putting him in my pocket and taking him home with me.
I’ve met both and if Portnoy is taller, it’s only an inch. Maybe two.
-
I'm just under 5'7" and he looks even shorter than me. I bet if I sat at his kit - the hi hats would be in the normal place for me haha.
No but i'd love to see a really tall drummer sit at Mangini's kit and see how easy it is for him to reach the cymbals.
Edit : i just googled his height just for fun and one site said he is 5'8" which he blatantly isn't. Petrucci maybe.
At the show in 2019 I remember looking (drooling over) at his kit before the show and thought the cymbals didn’t seem that crazy. Then once he sat down I realized that they look crazy high because he’s so short.
-
I'm just under 5'7" and he looks even shorter than me. I bet if I sat at his kit - the hi hats would be in the normal place for me haha.
No but i'd love to see a really tall drummer sit at Mangini's kit and see how easy it is for him to reach the cymbals.
Edit : i just googled his height just for fun and one site said he is 5'8" which he blatantly isn't. Petrucci maybe.
He is certainly not 5'8". For reference, I am 6'2", and I am about a foot taller than him.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nV01Hm0q/DT-group.jpg)
-
Yeah, none of them are tall, but I was afraid I might step on Mangini.
-
(https://i.postimg.cc/nV01Hm0q/DT-group.jpg)
You just answered the thread: MP will return to Dream Theater because MM is one of those guys who like to crank up the AC and JP is perpetually chilly and sick of it.
(seriously John, what is up with the sweater AND the jacket :lol)
-
GUYS ITS SO EASY
Mike Portnoy : Toms Bass and Snare
Mike Mangini : Cymbals
I’d switch those. Mangini’s fills are way more interesting, but nobody makes a pair of hi-hats sing like Portnoy.
Stewart Copeland
Carter Beauford
I so badly want this to actually be Mike Mangini's shitposting account
-
I'll bite. As a long-time DT fan (since 1994), I don't see MP ever rejoining as a member. I can see MP doing a song or two to commemorate an album's anniversary or if DT decides to retire and they do a close-out show.
I'm thankful MP has patched things up with Rudess, Petrucci, and Myung. The bridge has been burnt with LaBrie. I don't think LaBrie would ever want MP back in the band and if it ever became a possibility for MP to rejoin, LaBrie would be the no vote in the camp.
-
I'll bite. As a long-time DT fan (since 1994), I don't see MP ever rejoining as a member. I can see MP doing a song or two to commemorate an album's anniversary or if DT decides to retire and they do a close-out show.
I'm thankful MP has patched things up with Rudess, Petrucci, and Myung. The bridge has been burnt with LaBrie. I don't think LaBrie would ever want MP back in the band and if it ever became a possibility for MP to rejoin, LaBrie would be the no vote in the camp.
If Axl could patch things up with Slash and Duff, I don’t think the Portnoy/LaBrie bridge is completely burnt yet. With that said, unless Mangini leaves on his own accord, the current lineup will stay intact for the foreseeable future.
-
I'm just under 5'7" and he looks even shorter than me. I bet if I sat at his kit - the hi hats would be in the normal place for me haha.
No but i'd love to see a really tall drummer sit at Mangini's kit and see how easy it is for him to reach the cymbals.
Edit : i just googled his height just for fun and one site said he is 5'8" which he blatantly isn't. Petrucci maybe.
He is certainly not 5'8". For reference, I am 6'2", and I am about a foot taller than him.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nV01Hm0q/DT-group.jpg)
Wow this really puts things into perspective. I've only met JP and he was shorter than me but not by much, I didn't realize they were that much shorter.
-
Full time? Never.
It honestly doesn't make sense, at this point in their career, to rock that boat again. More specifically, a decision like that obviously has to be universally accepted and I don't think everyone in the band would immediately be on board with Portnoy returning - and I think that's glaringly obvious.
Look, I'd be an asshole to assume that I know anything at all when it comes to standing of the relationships between the band members. I don't. I would gamble that things are less tense, since Portnoy's departure, and the big four are more than content with Mangini behind the kit.
I also am willing to gamble that distance and time can make the heart grow fonder. Regardless of the level of tension that existed at the tail-end of Portnoy's tenure with the band, there was a bond that existed for over two decades that created some absolutely incredible memories not only for them but for all of their fans as well. Because of that, I don't think it's insane to believe that Portnoy could join them again, as a one-off, if only for the beautiful nostalgia blast that it would create.
When I say one-off, I would imagine it to be just a random show while on tour - where they are local to Portnoy, schedules work out, etc.
To me, Portnoy isn't the only person that I miss being in Dream Theater. I think every member played a massive role while there - regardless of their length of time in the band. I think it would be awesome to see all of them come back - Kevin, Derek, Charlie - a reunion with all of the buildings block that have made Dream Theater what it is today.
Now THAT would be a treat, for me.
-
Since we’re talking about heights again, I wanted to point out that David Prater saw JLB as physically intimidating (from the book) and in one interview recently JLB said “I thought I was big until I met Alex Lifeson”. You 6’2” freaks aren’t in touch with reality for normal sized people.
-
I'm sure DT are pretty happy with where they are, and i guess the new album will also keep the ball rolling in terms of popularity etc.
I can't shake the idea that the whole Inside Out deal with both DT and LTE was some sort of masterplan from the record label to get DT to reunite with MP at some point, but that sounds like a conspiracy theory.
I do like the fact that MM seems more comfortable (and creative) than ever in the band, even if it took 10 years to get to this point.
From a commercial point of view, and given how business oriented most of the members in DT are (especially JP and JR), at least a concert reunion seems almost inevitable.
But i don't see the band replacing MM, unless he decides to leave on his own.
-
Since we’re talking about heights again, I wanted to point out that David Prater saw JLB as physically intimidating (from the book) and in one interview recently JLB said “I thought I was big until I met Alex Lifeson”. You 6’2” freaks aren’t in touch with reality for normal sized people.
I'm about 6 feet even, and have met the band multiple times. None of them are physically intimidating, other than JP's beard.
-
Clearly he felt physically intimidated by how handsome James was. I think it's understandable. Just look at him!
(https://i.redd.it/ivklevfffwd01.jpg)
-
I'm 6'3" 240 lbs. I crap bigger than all of em. :lol
-
Since we’re talking about heights again, I wanted to point out that David Prater saw JLB as physically intimidating (from the book) and in one interview recently JLB said “I thought I was big until I met Alex Lifeson”. You 6’2” freaks aren’t in touch with reality for normal sized people.
Alex is "only" 6'0", though, no? Or was he - JLB - joking about the rest of DT? Neil was taller, like 6'4", though, right?
-
Since we’re talking about heights again, I wanted to point out that David Prater saw JLB as physically intimidating (from the book) and in one interview recently JLB said “I thought I was big until I met Alex Lifeson”. You 6’2” freaks aren’t in touch with reality for normal sized people.
Alex is "only" 6'0", though, no? Or was he - JLB - joking about the rest of DT? Neil was taller, like 6'4", though, right?
I think JLB may also have been referencing Alex's overall build, not sure.
-
Since we’re talking about heights again, I wanted to point out that David Prater saw JLB as physically intimidating (from the book) and in one interview recently JLB said “I thought I was big until I met Alex Lifeson”. You 6’2” freaks aren’t in touch with reality for normal sized people.
I'm about 6 feet even, and have met the band multiple times. None of them are physically intimidating, other than JP's beard.
Was not intimidated by his beard. I was intimidated by Mangini's enthusiasm though.
-
Since we’re talking about heights again, I wanted to point out that David Prater saw JLB as physically intimidating (from the book) and in one interview recently JLB said “I thought I was big until I met Alex Lifeson”. You 6’2” freaks aren’t in touch with reality for normal sized people.
I'm about 6 feet even, and have met the band multiple times. None of them are physically intimidating, other than JP's beard.
That's JLB in the beginning though, with the kind of broad shoulders and an intense face when he's not smiling and the hair adding to his height. Time has softened up his mannerisms and appearance quite a bit! I also remember MP saying JMX intimidated him in the beginning and JMX is like an inch taller than MP, it was all in the vibes.
-
I've met both Alex and JLB (not at the same time obviously) - and I would say they're about the same height - I'm 5'9", and they both had a couple of inches on me - so I'd say 5"11" - 6'. The point is Lifeson was not some huge dude (or much bigger than JLB), so not sure why he'd say that.