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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: bosk1 on July 25, 2021, 09:56:47 PM
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No thread? ???
Anyhow:
1. WOW, what a win for Austria in women's cycling today. :tup
2. US Women's gymnastics team and men's basketball team deserved to not dominate as expected. Both looked flat and unfocused.
3. Japanese women's street skaters are SO CUTE! :lol
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Well, I've watched Day 1 of the Rugby 7s event and I'm had a good time watching that. Currently watching sailing, and holy cow. I don't even know how the heck these guys train themselves for this. So many variance and if you miss a turn on a buoy, you got to reposition yourself to even reattempt to make the turn, which takes a lot of time, and on top of that, you got like 5-6 other guys trying to do the same thing around you. Heck, I'm looking at the sky view shots and I don't know how they know they are still on course.
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I am so rooting against the men's basketball team.
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My daughter thinks the skateboarders fall down too much. And they should be wearing helmets.
That's all I got.
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I am so rooting against the men's basketball team.
Can't bring myself to do that, but I get it.
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I realize Guershon Yabusele (former Celtic) is no Jason Tatum, but watching him dive for the ball going out of bounds...yeah, that's what I'm rooting for.
Jason Tatum cannot leave town (Boston) fast enough.
This tournament really doesn't seem all that important to the players. I'd rather see some college kids playing.
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I'm usually an Olympics junkie, watching two weeks of any sport that's on. I just can't do it this year, and I'm not 100% sure why. Some of it is COVID, some of it is the coverage (EVERY STORY has to have some current events angle; it's just too much at this point), some of it is my personal circumstances.
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Best thing I've seen so far was the brother/sister Japanese judo gold medalists. Great story, and the little sis was so charming watching her big bro win gold.
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I am so rooting against the men's basketball team.
Well after that performance against France, I can see why......
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The tmother one that got me was watching the American fencer win the first gold in that sport.
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I am so rooting against the men's basketball team.
Well after that performance against France, I can see why......
It pleased me as well.
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I am so rooting against the men's basketball team.
Well after that performance against France, I can see why......
It pleased me as well.
Same here. And here's the thing.....with the amount of attention that the Simone Biles, Katie Ledecky and Megan Rapinoe's get.....how they're just the next best thing since sliced bread.....that type of attention and them being placed on pedestals really irks me and I inherently just start to root against them. I don't find Ledecky or Biles 'cocky' in anyway and I don't have anything 'personal' against them....they're incredible athletes, but even last night after Ledecky lost her race....she gets interviewed?? Not Ariarne Titmus who just won the gold and beat her.....they still focus on Ledecky?? And the American Media has place SO much pressure on Biles to utterly dominate that she admittedly felt the pressure and couldn't perform at her best.
I LOVE watching dominant athletes, that's why I like(d) Tiger Woods for all those years....but I detest cocky, arrogant athletes who reek of self importance and that's how I view the majority of the Mens Basketball and Womens Soccer athletes. So, if/when they fail or lose I take a small amount of satisfaction out of it. But the chances are both those teams win gold and they and the media will continue to self inflate their importance but when they do lose I find it funny and gratifying.
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Well, I agree Gary, but the NBC probably feels that personalities sell. People get engaged with the stars. The NBA has been doing it for years.
All sports basically promote that way.
Coming up, Sidney Crosby and the Pittsburgh Penguins take on Alex Ovechkin and the Washington Capitals.
I hate those kind of promos and graphics.
But they're reaching to casual fans that might recognize the name.
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Gotta love the Philippine weightlifter winning her country's first ever gold.
Fuck the men's basketball team, that's the stuff I love about the games.
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No thread? ???
Anyhow:
1. WOW, what a win for Austria in women's cycling today. :tup
2. US Women's gymnastics team and men's basketball team deserved to not dominate as expected. Both looked flat and unfocused.
3. Japanese women's street skaters are SO CUTE! :lol
I have a feeling that the US Women's Gymnastics team are going in a bit too confident. The last 2 teams were phenomenal, they have more to live up to than they think.
The tv/streaming format is a bit weird this year. Unless I'm missing something, NBC is not on Hulu TV, only on Peacock or Cable. NBCSP is on Hulu. So to get some sports, including gymnastics, you can't get it all in one place if you're a streamer.
-Tof
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I watched some of the women's volleyball (both indoor and beach). Really wish I had gotten into volleyball back when I was single.
I watched some guys kayaking at a manmade whitewater course. That looks SO cool! I've been ocean kayaking many, many times and always wanted to try whitewater. I'm wondering if there are any of those manmade courses anywhere near me and if they are open to the public.
Didn't pay attention to basketball. I won't say I'm rooting against the U.S. team, but I just don't care. Olympic basketball was ruined when they started allowing NBA players (same thing with ice hockey, but to a lesser extent).
My wife watched some diving.
I have no interest in skateboarding or gymnastics.
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I am so rooting against the men's basketball team.
Well after that performance against France, I can see why......
It pleased me as well.
Same here. And here's the thing.....with the amount of attention that the Simone Biles, Katie Ledecky and Megan Rapinoe's get.....how they're just the next best thing since sliced bread.....that type of attention and them being placed on pedestals really irks me and I inherently just start to root against them. I don't find Ledecky or Biles 'cocky' in anyway and I don't have anything 'personal' against them....they're incredible athletes, but even last night after Ledecky lost her race....she gets interviewed?? Not Ariarne Titmus who just won the gold and beat her.....they still focus on Ledecky?? And the American Media has place SO much pressure on Biles to utterly dominate that she admittedly felt the pressure and couldn't perform at her best.
I LOVE watching dominant athletes, that's why I like(d) Tiger Woods for all those years....but I detest cocky, arrogant athletes who reek of self importance and that's how I view the majority of the Mens Basketball and Womens Soccer athletes. So, if/when they fail or lose I take a small amount of satisfaction out of it. But the chances are both those teams win gold and they and the media will continue to self inflate their importance but when they do lose I find it funny and gratifying.
Gary, I'm with you, and I'll leave it at that. You're athletes. Play the game. Win. That's it.
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I'm usually an Olympics junkie, watching two weeks of any sport that's on. I just can't do it this year, and I'm not 100% sure why. Some of it is COVID, some of it is the coverage (EVERY STORY has to have some current events angle; it's just too much at this point), some of it is my personal circumstances.
Same for me this year. I actually prefer the Winter games vs the Summer ones. But this year I absolutely have no interest in this year's Olympic games.
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I don't mind a little cockiness. That's what makes sports fun!
Remember Riggo? Neon Deion? Michael Irvin?
The difference was these guys could back it up.
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The tmother one that got me was watching the American fencer win the first gold in that sport.
Agree. She was SO excited/happy.
Also the swimmer from...I think Tunisia.....that won gold and was a HUGE upset. And LOTS of taekwondo firsts/upsets. Always fun to see big underdog stories, regardless of whether they beat the USA.
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I don't mind a little cockiness. That's what makes sports fun!
Remember Riggo? Neon Deion? Michael Irvin?
The difference was these guys could back it up.
Not just that....but for me.....they stuck to the sports and that was that. I'm just not that big a fan of this current era of "superstar" sports figure and how they've been anointed this status of cultural guidance guru's. Not especially given the level of hypocrisy they demonstrate by the way they live their lives. Anyway....that's venturing into a P/R conversation so I'm sorry about that.
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I'm usually an Olympics junkie, watching two weeks of any sport that's on. I just can't do it this year, and I'm not 100% sure why. Some of it is COVID, some of it is the coverage (EVERY STORY has to have some current events angle; it's just too much at this point), some of it is my personal circumstances.
Nah, you can say it. The Olympics gone woke, more specifically, just the usual NBC pushing their woke communist agenda for the people who OWN them. Most people aren't into that.
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I don't mind a little cockiness. That's what makes sports fun!
Remember Riggo? Neon Deion? Michael Irvin?
The difference was these guys could back it up.
Not just that....but for me.....they stuck to the sports and that was that. I'm just not that big a fan of this current era of "superstar" sports figure and how they've been anointed this status of cultural guidance guru's. Not especially given the level of hypocrisy they demonstrate by the way they live their lives. Anyway....that's venturing into a P/R conversation so I'm sorry about that.
That's where I was heading. I don't mind cockiness on the field when it's between the lines. Tom Brady. You want to shut him up? Win. After the game, I'm not interested. Kicking a soccer ball does not make you a qualified social or cultural commentator.
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Sports! is basically dudes (and gals) playing with their balls in front of TV cameras. Unless they play hockey, then they're playing with their fat disc.
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Also, what about the table tennis player from Syria who's fucking 12 :omg:
How does one rise to that level of play, in that tore up of a country, at such a young age? Just amazing.
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I don't mind a little cockiness. That's what makes sports fun!
Remember Riggo? Neon Deion? Michael Irvin?
The difference was these guys could back it up.
Not just that....but for me.....they stuck to the sports and that was that. I'm just not that big a fan of this current era of "superstar" sports figure and how they've been anointed this status of cultural guidance guru's. Not especially given the level of hypocrisy they demonstrate by the way they live their lives. Anyway....that's venturing into a P/R conversation so I'm sorry about that.
That's where I was heading. I don't mind cockiness on the field when it's between the lines. Tom Brady. You want to shut him up? Win. After the game, I'm not interested. Kicking a soccer ball does not make you a qualified social or cultural commentator.
While I agree with your example of Brady athletes can certainly chew gum and walk at the same time. Do people need a degree in a specific field to be a social or cultural commentator or is that their opinion rubs you the wrong way? There are plenty of popular sports figures that give back to their community far more than anyone else but I will never agree that they "shut up and dribble". That's just plantation talk.
Olympics rock!!!! :metal
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I don't mind a little cockiness. That's what makes sports fun!
Remember Riggo? Neon Deion? Michael Irvin?
The difference was these guys could back it up.
Not just that....but for me.....they stuck to the sports and that was that. I'm just not that big a fan of this current era of "superstar" sports figure and how they've been anointed this status of cultural guidance guru's. Not especially given the level of hypocrisy they demonstrate by the way they live their lives. Anyway....that's venturing into a P/R conversation so I'm sorry about that.
That's where I was heading. I don't mind cockiness on the field when it's between the lines. Tom Brady. You want to shut him up? Win. After the game, I'm not interested. Kicking a soccer ball does not make you a qualified social or cultural commentator.
While I agree with your example of Brady athletes can certainly chew gum and walk at the same time. Do people need a degree in a specific field to be a social or cultural commentator or is that their opinion rubs you the wrong way? There are plenty of popular sports figures that give back to their community far more than anyone else but I will never agree that they "shut up and dribble". That's just plantation talk.
Olympics rock!!!! :metal
Most celebs really shouldn't make comments in regards to politics or social issues, mostly because they tend to not know what they're talking about, and having a huge outlet that they have through the press and social media, means their nonsense spreads faster and harder, for longer, than average schmoes'. They also tend to push the agendas their handlers want them to push, if we're talking plantation talk.
Not every celebrity is a Frank Zappa. Would you have told Frank Zappa to "shut up and play yer guitar" when making social or cultural analysis when he (often) did? Because much of the establishment during his lifetime did. Unlike LeBron, Johnny Depp, Madonna, and that 'nasty woman' who used to be an actress, FZ's background was growing up in a military-industrial family, grew up to have no faith in government, was wrongfully arrested and jailed by police as a young adult, which further showed how corrupt government is, and saw the parallels in the music industry with the government-media complex. If LeBron had this kind of background, I, and others, might give him the benefit of the doubt.
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You never bothered to look into LeBron's childhood before making that comment, did you?
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Sports! is basically dudes (and gals) playing with their balls in front of TV cameras. Unless they play hockey, then they're playing with their fat disc.
And what's wrong with this?
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How it started: https://twitter.com/tonyhawk/status/641374976927399938
How its going: https://time.com/6083877/olympics-womens-skateboarding-stars/
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I saw that XJD. Awesome story.
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I don't spend any time thinking about it, and don't really care, but I can't really decide where I come out on pro athletes competing in the Olympics. If a nation wants their best competitors to represent them, shouldn't they send their best? Or should it be reserved for amateur athletes?
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Philosophically, I think amateurism fits best with the Olympic ideal of the world coming together through sport, whereas pro athletes flips the balance a bit more towards the inter-nation genital measuring contest. But that's just my preference. I think there are pros and cons to both sides, especially in todays modern climate where even the amateurs are getting massive amounts of state funding in certain key sports.
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Good point about the continual blurring of the line between pro and amateur. Didn't even occur to me when I wrote my post.
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Philosophically, I think amateurism fits best with the Olympic ideal of the world coming together through sport, whereas pro athletes flips the balance a bit more towards the inter-nation genital measuring contest. But that's just my preference. I think there are pros and cons to both sides, especially in todays modern climate where even the amateurs are getting massive amounts of state funding in certain key sports.
I completely agree with this. BUT I also get why the Olympic basketball and hockey teams tend to be different from most other Olympic sports in having big name professional athletes. And it boils down to how the NHL and NBA are structured within society. What I mean by that is, unlike a sport like swimming, or gymnastics, or track and field, for example, if you are good enough to play on the world stage at the Olympics in basketball or hockey, you have already begun a career in the NBA or NHL. Kids growing up in those sports train themselves to be able to enter the league as soon as possible and make that their primary career for their working life. Contrast that with, say, gymnastics or swimming, where they train like crazy to have an early career into their late teens and early 20s, and then move on to something else to actually earn a living later on. It's just...different. And I don't like it, but I get why it is that way.
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I feel like Rugby 7s seems like my kind of game to watch as a healthy medium as a guy that's not a fan of American football and soccer. You see some solid maneuvering of the ball, there's a fair amount of physicality, and I haven't seen any flopping yet. The games so far in the qualifying rounds are pretty fast as well. Don't know why Rugby in general isn't a popular sport at all.
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I'd rather see amateurs in both sports. It's so more enjoyable to root for but the joy of them advancing compared to the pros.
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You never bothered to look into LeBron's childhood before making that comment, did you?
Darkshades examples were bad, and his wording was poor. But I mostly agree with his overall point. But I'll put it another way. The problem is that athletes and entertainers are often (not always) living in a very sheltered world that does not even remotely resemble the lives of "normal," everyday people. In some respects, that shouldn't matter. But in others, I think it really does. Those that achieve success usually don't experience "normal" life from that point on. They are typically sheltered, and spend time almost exclusively around those that only tell them how great they are, and they don't have to really deal with responsibility, or consequences for their actions, or the things that, IMO, are often most important and valuable in shaping people to be responsible, productive, functioning members of society. Again, I'm painting with a broad brush. It certainly isn't true of all. But it is true of many. And while that doesn't necessarily "disqualify" them from being able to speak on important social issues, I strongly feel most of the time that their opinions mean nothing and should be avoided (even when they happen to be right).
LeBron is an interesting case. And not because of his upbringing. There are many athletes and entertainers that come from very difficult, very humble beginnings like him that wind up in the same types of sheltered bubbles that I mentioned above. And I think LeBron fits that. BUT he is also one that I think has tried hard to educate himself on issues, and does have credibility in certain respects. There are many things he speaks out on where, whether I agree with him or not, I feel he is credible and knows what he is talking about. Other times, I feel he is naive and doesn't understand what he is talking about. But because he is King James, there are those who will still take what he says as gospel.
But it is what it is. I'm not advocating "silencing" anyone. But I'm not shy about stating my opinion as to why I think it is often very problematic and troubling. Hope my explanation makes sense.
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I feel like Rugby 7s seems like my kind of game to watch as a healthy medium as a guy that's not a fan of American football and soccer. You see some solid maneuvering of the ball, there's a fair amount of physicality, and I haven't seen any flopping yet. The games so far in the qualifying rounds are pretty fast as well. Don't know why Rugby in general isn't a popular sport at all.
Rugby Union is an interesting case as even the top divisions had strictly enforced amateurism until relatively recently (1995).
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On the topic of bringing pros vs guys that are either in college or not playing a pro league, to bring an example, I just don't think the 2010 Winter Olympic men's hockey finals between USA vs Canada would be as epic if the teams were only limited to either guys that are in college or playing in the European league. To many Canadian fans that watched that game in real time, to them, I think Canada winning gold medal in that particular Olympics meant a lot more than their favorite team (ok, poor example there, since by then it was already 17 years and counting since a Canadian team won the cup)/players winning the Stanley Cup. On the other hand, if there were no NHL players at that game, Sidney Crosby wouldn't score the OT winning goal and further become the golden child of the NHL and thus hockey media/analysts wouldn't have to keep sucking up to Crosby every chance they get. Tough trade-off.
I personally like best players on best players if there are enough countries that you see their roster and say, "Yeah, I think they are good enough to win gold," that's exciting enough for me to watch. I know in hockey, there's like at least 4-5 countries that can be good enough to win gold if NHL players are in it. Don't know anything from a basketball or soccer perspective though of how bringing pros in various major leagues affect the spirit of the sport.
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Good points bosk, gonna tap out of that discussion now. This thread should celebrate the stories.
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That USA vs. China women's volleyball match was pretty epic. Even though the U.S. got the sweep, it was tight all the way through.
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I don't mind a little cockiness. That's what makes sports fun!
Remember Riggo? Neon Deion? Michael Irvin?
The difference was these guys could back it up.
Not just that....but for me.....they stuck to the sports and that was that. I'm just not that big a fan of this current era of "superstar" sports figure and how they've been anointed this status of cultural guidance guru's. Not especially given the level of hypocrisy they demonstrate by the way they live their lives. Anyway....that's venturing into a P/R conversation so I'm sorry about that.
That's where I was heading. I don't mind cockiness on the field when it's between the lines. Tom Brady. You want to shut him up? Win. After the game, I'm not interested. Kicking a soccer ball does not make you a qualified social or cultural commentator.
While I agree with your example of Brady athletes can certainly chew gum and walk at the same time. Do people need a degree in a specific field to be a social or cultural commentator or is that their opinion rubs you the wrong way? There are plenty of popular sports figures that give back to their community far more than anyone else but I will never agree that they "shut up and dribble". That's just plantation talk.
Olympics rock!!!! :metal
Don't project your narrow-mindedness on me. I never once ever said or implied "shut up and dribble". I don't care about whether someone has an opinion or not, and I don't care (well, I do, in a good way) if athletes give back. It's the reverence placed on those opinions by fans for the simple reason that they CAN kick or throw a ball. It's the same for any field; playing a guitar doesn't make your opinion matter any more than anyone else's.
And no, it matters not what the opinion is, and thanks for reading my 1,000 other posts that makes that clear. :).
EDIT: What Bosk said. :)
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That USA vs. China women's volleyball match was pretty epic. Even though the U.S. got the sweep, it was tight all the way through.
It was good. I tried to stay up for all of it but was pretty tired. Good to see the USA won it.
One thing that is annoying is this work around that Russia has in place where they essentially still get to compete despite having been busted for doping and supposedly punished for it. It’s clear that was a sham and joke.
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Lydia Jacoby from Alaska winning gold in 100m breaststroke....big upset over King and the girl from South Africa. They said there's only ONE pool in all of Alaska that is 50 meters long.
Women's Triathlon. First gold medal for the smallest country in the Olympics (not size, but population).....Bermuda. USA girl got the bronze. They did the vast majority of those races in a veritable monsoon.
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Simone Biles withdraws from competition due to ‘medical issues’
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks this is fishy as it comes on the heels of her admitting the pressure to perform well was getting to her. How can you be the GOAT if you can’t perform under pressure?
If you take it for face value it’s horrible for her to miss this chance because this is what they train for and now she can’t do it. Very sad.
**EDIT**. It’s being reported as a ‘Mental Issue’ now. What the media has done to this woman is completely unfair. While I believe if your the supposed GOAT or whatever you should have the ability to perform under pressure……the lead in and way they placed all the pressure on her to utterly dominate was pretty over the top. I feel for her that it sounds like she basically cracked.
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Sucks.. Hopefully she can get back to form for the individual events, she's just so far ahead of everyone else in the field, any competition without her is really one without a top bar.
News just said it was clear there was something wrong after an awkward landing from the vault, she's still slated on the individual events but will be assessed daily.
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Reading about Biles and the Tennis star who pulled out of Wimbledon makes me wonder how Tom Brady can stay so focused for 20 years at the level he has. So much circus with the league and he can focus still and preform at the highest level when it matters. I have trouble at work focusing when I'm depressed.
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Reading about Biles and the Tennis star who pulled out of Wimbledon makes me wonder how Tom Brady can stay so focused for 20 years at the level he has. So much circus with the league and he can focus still and preform at the highest level when it matters. I have trouble at work focusing when I'm depressed.
Who fucking cares. Let's keep Brady out of the Olympics thread, ok buddy?
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Reading about Biles and the Tennis star who pulled out of Wimbledon makes me wonder how Tom Brady can stay so focused for 20 years at the level he has. So much circus with the league and he can focus still and preform at the highest level when it matters. I have trouble at work focusing when I'm depressed.
Who fucking cares. Let's keep Brady out of the Olympics thread, ok buddy?
:lol
No I'm saying in all professional sports you are seeing many breaking down mentally. You'd think dealing with "the gates" suspension, his mom having cancer that he didn't have that sort of moment.
You see a lot more of athletes not handling the pressure lately. Maybe it's the added stress of Covid. Just of late, we are seeing stress for athletes.
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Or maybe they are more willing to admit it?
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Or maybe they are more willing to admit it?
Probably this. I love that people like Osaka put their mental health first, it goes to great lengths towards normalizing the issue for the masses.
This incident with Biles sounds like it was an actual I jury, maybe not totally debilitating, but where she took herself out to save herself for the individual events maybe.
And you know I have nothing but respect for Brady and am just breaking balls of course.
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There is some speculation that Simone bowed out because wasn't hitting her jumps like she has been and she's not injured which could be harmful to the team overall. I don't watch gymnastics so I am just passing information along.
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Or maybe they are more willing to admit it?
Probably this. I love that people like Osaka put their mental health first, it goes to great lengths towards normalizing the issue for the masses.
This incident with Biles sounds like it was an actual I jury, maybe not totally debilitating, but where she took herself out to save herself for the individual events maybe.
And you know I have nothing but respect for Brady and am just breaking balls of course.
But of course. No matter if it's mental stress or an injury it's a shame to go to the highest moment and have to pull out.
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I admire Biles and Naomi a lot. Sucks that they are out. I think Biles had something else going on besides the mental issue. What she does is incredible but there is so much force the body can take with those landings. Specially those moves that she was doing were she was the only one that has ever done it (don't know the name of the move lol).
By the way, Netflix has a great documentary on Naomi that was just released.
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I admire Biles and Naomi a lot. Sucks that they are out. I think Biles had something else going on besides the mental issue. What she does is incredible but there is so much force the body can take with those landings. Specially those moves that she was doing were she was the only one that has ever done it (don't know the name of the move lol).
By the way, Netflix has a great documentary on Naomi that was just released.
Yeah I just saw one report that said she landed awkward, briefly chatted with her coach to pull out. She left with the medical team and came back with her ankle taped.
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Biles came out and said she withdrew for mental reasons, stating she wasn't in a good place after facing so much pressure to win.
Damn...
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Biles came out and said she withdrew for mental reasons, stating she wasn't in a good place after facing so much pressure to win.
Damn...
While this is sad for her and the sport.....I personally thing this eliminates the talk of her being the GOAT. I'm sorry to sound insensitive.....but plain and simple GOAT's don't fold under pressure. They perform better under it.
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Biles came out and said she withdrew for mental reasons, stating she wasn't in a good place after facing so much pressure to win.
Damn...
While this is sad for her and the sport.....I personally thing this eliminates the talk of her being the GOAT. I'm sorry to sound insensitive.....but plain and simple GOAT's don't fold under pressure. They perform better under it.
I completely disagree. Imagine trying to be the best when the voting committee are actively punishing you for being better than everybody else. She’s endured bias her entire career. And let’s look at it another way: one of the things that makes these once in a generation talents so great is the constant work they put in to get better. They outwork all of their contemporaries. Tom Brady was carried his first few starting seasons with the Patriots, but his work ethic is what pushed him to be the greatest quarterback of all time (yes I begrudgingly concede). Maintaining your mental strength is part of that, so Biles withdrawing to work on her mental health is another part of that work ethic and drive to be the very best she can be.
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Biles came out and said she withdrew for mental reasons, stating she wasn't in a good place after facing so much pressure to win.
Damn...
While this is sad for her and the sport.....I personally thing this eliminates the talk of her being the GOAT. I'm sorry to sound insensitive.....but plain and simple GOAT's don't fold under pressure. They perform better under it.
I completely disagree. Imagine trying to be the best when the voting committee are actively punishing you for being better than everybody else. She’s endured bias her entire career. And let’s look at it another way: one of the things that makes these once in a generation talents so great is the constant work they put in to get better. They outwork all of their contemporaries. Tom Brady was carried his first few starting seasons with the Patriots, but his work ethic is what pushed him to be the greatest quarterback of all time (yes I begrudgingly concede). Maintaining your mental strength is part of that, so Biles withdrawing to work on her mental health is another part of that work ethic and drive to be the very best she can be.
I don't think you and I will agree on this.....which is fine. I'm pretty cut and dried when it comes to sports figures performing. That's the field they've CHOSEN. Unless you're from Russia or China where you're essentially forced to do it your whole life......you've chose that sport and to undergo the constant work and training. You've enjoyed the perks and lavishness that the fame bring you....the sponsorship money and all that comes with it. So, if you're going to be branded and sold as the GOAT or whatever....it's essentially your job to perform like it. When you don't....IMO....you don't deserve the credit for being something you're basically not.
Biles is truly talented and is leaps and bounds more skilled than the other gymnasts. But, she did crack under the pressure and IMO that is not something a supposed GOAT does. The true GOATS....Tiger....Brady.....Gretzky....they perform under pressure....not wilt away.
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Or maybe they are more willing to admit it?
Probably this. I love that people like Osaka put their mental health first, it goes to great lengths towards normalizing the issue for the masses.
This incident with Biles sounds like it was an actual I jury, maybe not totally debilitating, but where she took herself out to save herself for the individual events maybe.
And you know I have nothing but respect for Brady and am just breaking balls of course.
But of course. No matter if it's mental stress or an injury it's a shame to go to the highest moment and have to pull out.
Phrasing.
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Biles came out and said she withdrew for mental reasons, stating she wasn't in a good place after facing so much pressure to win.
Damn...
While this is sad for her and the sport.....I personally thing this eliminates the talk of her being the GOAT. I'm sorry to sound insensitive.....but plain and simple GOAT's don't fold under pressure. They perform better under it.
Isn't she already the GOAT? It is a definite taint though. I agree with RJ. I just watched the vault and her talking to her teammates. She just fucking quit on them.
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Biles came out and said she withdrew for mental reasons, stating she wasn't in a good place after facing so much pressure to win.
Damn...
While this is sad for her and the sport.....I personally thing this eliminates the talk of her being the GOAT. I'm sorry to sound insensitive.....but plain and simple GOAT's don't fold under pressure. They perform better under it.
I completely disagree. Imagine trying to be the best when the voting committee are actively punishing you for being better than everybody else. She’s endured bias her entire career. And let’s look at it another way: one of the things that makes these once in a generation talents so great is the constant work they put in to get better. They outwork all of their contemporaries. Tom Brady was carried his first few starting seasons with the Patriots, but his work ethic is what pushed him to be the greatest quarterback of all time (yes I begrudgingly concede). Maintaining your mental strength is part of that, so Biles withdrawing to work on her mental health is another part of that work ethic and drive to be the very best she can be.
I don't think you and I will agree on this.....which is fine. I'm pretty cut and dried when it comes to sports figures performing. That's the field they've CHOSEN. Unless you're from Russia or China where you're essentially forced to do it your whole life......you've chose that sport and to undergo the constant work and training. You've enjoyed the perks and lavishness that the fame bring you....the sponsorship money and all that comes with it. So, if you're going to be branded and sold as the GOAT or whatever....it's essentially your job to perform like it. When you don't....IMO....you don't deserve the credit for being something you're basically not.
Biles is truly talented and is leaps and bounds more skilled than the other gymnasts. But, she did crack under the pressure and IMO that is not something a supposed GOAT does. The true GOATS....Tiger....Brady.....Gretzky....they perform under pressure....not wilt away.
I'm kind of with you on this Gary. I have deep sympathy for her, and I hope she gets all the care - physical, mental, emotional - that she needs, as a human being, to be as healthy as she can be. That goes without saying and is just simple human compassion. But we have to realize that not all options are open for all people. We don't give her the GOAT just to be nice or to be sympathetic. That's a participation trophy at that point. Who was the guy who popped the landing and his ankle snapped, but he still landed it? Tim Daggett? Some people can persevere more than others, and to be the "GREATEST OF ALL TIME" means exactly that: you have persevered more than ANYONE, EVER. She's really, really, REALLY good, maybe even really, really great, but not THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME. No harm no foul in that.
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^Or Kerri Strugg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4um3YEX51k I remember watching that when it happened, and I couldn't help but tear up. One of the most amazing things I have ever seen.
As far as Biles, my kneejerk reaction is along the lines of what Gary posted. But that being said, I can't pretend to know what is actually going on with her, or what happened, or why. She doesn't need or deserve my half-baked judgment, so I'm not going to play judge. If she up and quit on her teammates when the pressure became too much, that's between her and them, and not really my business.
But I am hoping we get to see some more cool stories come out of these Olympics. That's one of the things that can make them so fun to watch.
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"Cracking under pressure." There are probably a lot of definitions for that phrase. Would substance abuse count? Would skipping the US Open to enter rehab be "quitting?" I mean, it could even be possible that the biggest GOAT you can think of can tell you of a time when they "cracked under pressure" but don't really want to have that out there in public sphere.
Is it fair to compare athletes against one another when their backgrounds and life experiences could potentially be VASTLY different?
Yeah, sure - those "GOATs" (I really hate that term TBH) probably all had some sort of adversity to overcome in their lives. They all probably have stories we'll never even know about. But someone once said, "Don't judge another person until you've walked a mile in their shoes."
I don't know what is truly going on with SB and neither does anyone on this thread. Is she a GOAT? Why does it truly even matter? I respect her abilities, her training, her perseverance, her commitment, her grace, and her style.
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"Cracking under pressure." There are probably a lot of definitions for that phrase. Would substance abuse count? Would skipping the US Open to enter rehab be "quitting?" I mean, it could even be possible that the biggest GOAT you can think of can tell you of a time when they "cracked under pressure" but don't really want to have that out there in public sphere.
Is it fair to compare athletes against one another when their backgrounds and life experiences could potentially be VASTLY different?
Yeah, sure - those "GOATs" (I really hate that term TBH) probably all had some sort of adversity to overcome in their lives. They all probably have stories we'll never even know about. But someone once said, "Don't judge another person until you've walked a mile in their shoes."
I don't know what is truly going on with SB and neither does anyone on this thread. Is she a GOAT? Why does it truly even matter? I respect her abilities, her training, her perseverance, her commitment, her grace, and her style.
We're veering into pretty dice-y territory here, because I'm not sure how "absolute" I want to be here, but that's one of the great things about sport for me. Between the lines, it's all the same. I've already written that I'm not a huge fan of every athlete now having a "back story". You pitch, I hit, and may the better person win, and it doesn't matter IN THAT MOMENT whether I came from poverty or not, or whether I overcame scoliosis or not, or whether my mom was a crack whore or not. I still had to put in the work I had to do to get there, and I still either hit the ball or I didn't.
Sport is the ultimate metaphor in so many ways, and one of those ways is that it doesn't always reduce down to what we would think of as "fair" in the cosmic sense of the word. If sport (life) was fair, the Yanks would have won the World Series in 2001, yet they didn't on a heartbreaking flair hit off the greatest relief pitcher in the game. But they didn't. If sport (life) was fair, Mike Mussina would have a perfect game and at least one no-hitter (unlike Clemens). But he doesn't.
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Yeah, sure - those "GOATs" (I really hate that term TBH) ...Is she a GOAT? Why does it truly even matter? I respect her abilities, her training, her perseverance, her commitment, her grace, and her style.
Yeah, it's an interesting phenomenon. I think we're (collectively) just in love with the idea of being eyewitness to "once-in-a-lifetime" phenomena, and as a society, seemingly can't help chasing that ideal. Not sure what else to say about that, other than that it is sort of fascinating that humans do that, and that it is a rather odd obsession.
"Don't judge another person until you've walked a mile in their shoes." ...
I don't know what is truly going on with SB and neither does anyone on this thread.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was trying to say. :tup
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Philosophically, I think amateurism fits best with the Olympic ideal of the world coming together through sport, whereas pro athletes flips the balance a bit more towards the inter-nation genital measuring contest. But that's just my preference. I think there are pros and cons to both sides, especially in todays modern climate where even the amateurs are getting massive amounts of state funding in certain key sports.
I think part of my problem with having pros in the Olympics comes from the historical perspective. Traditionally, the modern Olympics were about amateurs. Then, in the 1970s, Americans began bitching about the fact that Soviet and and other Warsaw Pact countries were fielding teams of professionals disguised as amateurs. If anyone doesn't know this, what was happening is that the best players were given ranks in the armed forces but, instead, of working as soldiers, they spent all their time training and practicing. One of the big reasons the U.S.'s victory over the USSR in ice hockey in 1980 was such a big deal was because the U.S. team was truly a team of amateurs (mostly college players) playing against professionals from the Soviet Union. In 1984 and 1988, things returned to "normal," with the Soviet Union winning gold both years with a 17-1 record and allowing only 23 goals over 18 games.
At the same time, the Soviet Union was breaking up, and the 1988 games were the last time that the Soviet Union competed at the games (they competed as "the Unified Team" and the "Commonwealth of Independent States" in 1992 and won gold in ice hockey). Also at the same time, the United States had a long streak of gold medals in basketball (broken only by the farce that occurred in 1972, which is a different subject entirely). However, in 1988, the Soviet Union managed to beat the United States for the gold, and this was an outrage that could not be tolerated.
The U.S. Olympic Committee "lobbied heavily to get the rules changed" (i.e., demanded a rule change) to allow professionals so that the U.S. could again be dominant in Olympic basketball. These efforts succeeded, leading to such compelling and iconic games as the U.S.'s 116-48 win over vaunted powerhouse Angola. NHL players didn't end up in Olympic ice hockey until 1998 (needless to say, that wasn't as much of a priority for the U.S. as basketball).
So...given that the reason why professionals came to play in the Olympics was not a result of simply wanting the best players to complete, I still have a bit of a problem with it. But I recognize that my view is rather jaded and may not be popular.
Two other things:
- Apparently some internet bozos were triggered by the Australian swimming coach's spontaneous celebration, which they have characterized as "toxic masculinity." :facepalm: :facepalm:
- My son shared something with me about how the U.S. apparently didn't do well in the skateboarding competition. He said, "well...that's what happens when you have to send skateboarders who can pass the Olympic drug tests.
Biles came out and said she withdrew for mental reasons, stating she wasn't in a good place after facing so much pressure to win.
Damn...
While this is sad for her and the sport.....I personally thing this eliminates the talk of her being the GOAT. I'm sorry to sound insensitive.....but plain and simple GOAT's don't fold under pressure. They perform better under it.
I completely disagree. . . .
I don't think you and I will agree on this.....which is fine. . . .
I'm with G on this. Putting aside all the fluffy, puffy stuff (and I don't know thing 1 about gymnastics), you can't be the GOAT if you don't actually compete (regardless of the reason). I also agree that, in addition to having talent, true GOATs handle the pressure that comes with being the best. They thrive under the pressure and don't succumb to it. A true champion doesn't quit in the middle of a competition "to work on her mental health."
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Well, entering rehab would definitely not count as quitting, so we'll see. I'm never married to my opinions and I am definitely open. But to me, whose opinion is not likely off base, but doesn't matter in the slightest, it seemed like she had a bad vault and quit. Like she couldn't handle it.
I look at the pro golfer who blows a tournament on the front 9. But they have to trudge on. ON THE SURFACE, it just seemed like she didn't want to do that.
Sorry RJ, but did Tom Brady quit when they were down 28-3, and tell his teammates that he's been to other Super Bowls, and that this was their first and to go enjoy it? Nope. He led his team to victory. Something Biles (at east for now to me) wasn't willing to do.
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GODDAMMIT NO BRADY TALK IN THIS THREAD
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GODDAMMIT NO BRADY TALK IN THIS THREAD
Who is that?
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It doesn't take away anything from what she has already accomplished. I'd say it shows incredible maturity to say "hey guys, I'm letting the team down, so I'm going to pull out of the team competition so I don't cause you to lose out on a medal."
I'm with G on this. Putting aside all the fluffy, puffy stuff (and I don't know thing 1 about gymnastics), you can't be the GOAT if you don't actually compete (regardless of the reason). I also agree that, in addition to having talent, true GOATs handle the pressure that comes with being the best. They thrive under the pressure and don't succumb to it. A true champion doesn't quit in the middle of a competition "to work on her mental health."
See above - a true champion also has the maturity to know when they're stuff isn't up to par and pass the ball to someone else. Her teammates won a silver. Maybe they'd have a gold, had she been perfect, but she stepped back and didn't cause them to drop past silver.
Jumping down this girls' throat is just wrong. You can't say that the media pressure is so unfair to her and then criticize her for buckling in the same breath. She herself just reminded people today that they're all human, not just athletes. She's won 30 Olympic medals, she has nothing left to prove.
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GODDAMMIT NO BRADY TALK IN THIS THREAD
Who is that?
Lonestar is a guy that lives in NoCal. I think his real name is RJ.
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GODDAMMIT NO BRADY TALK IN THIS THREAD
Who is that?
I'd tell you, but then I'd be talking about him in this thread.
(Tom Brady)
GODDAMMIT NO BRADY TALK IN THIS THREAD
Who is that?
Lonestar is a guy that lives in NoCal. I think his real name is RJ.
Spoilers dude!!!
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GODDAMMIT NO BRADY TALK IN THIS THREAD
Who is that?
Lonestar is a guy that lives in NoCal. I think his real name is RJ.
LoL
Seriously, I know who TB is but if he walked past me on the street I wouldn't recognize him or even give a shit.
One man's 'GOAT' is another man's 'who?'
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GODDAMMIT NO BRADY TALK IN THIS THREAD
I still love you baby.
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I truly feel for Biles because the attention and the proclamation of her being the 'GOAT' wasn't her idea....she's not the one who painted the narrative of it all, so I have sympathy for her as she's been painted into being this image of true perfection in her sport ever since the last Olympics. BUT...she's also went along with it and been privy to all the perks and financial blessing that have come with the sponsorships and attention of the 'image' and persona that's she's been sold and billed as.
Her essentially not living up to that image and persona is what this is all about in my eyes. She's like an expensive sports car that crapped out at 25k miles. There's still a good chance she comes back and takes a couple gold medals in the individual competition part of it all....of which then there are some real questions that need to be asked but most likely won't. She pulled out due to 'mental issues'. Don't you think the rest of her teammates have had it tough living and training in her shadow for the past 4+ years? Always hearing about Simone.....Biles this...Simone that.....and they still needed to persevere and overcome that distraction to perform.
So Biles gets a bit rattled and then flat out quits on her team? Kills their dream of gold because she knows in the back of her minds she can still compete in individual competitions and get 'her' gold medals. I think when this is over she needs to be challenged on that question. But I know she won't for pretty obvious reasons given the state of our culture right now.
Like Bosk and Harmony said....we/I don't know her or know what she's going through. I've suffered from anxiety and panic attack issues in the past so I know how crippling it can be. And again, I truly feel for her as a human. It's a huge stage to fail on especially when you've been promoted as being the GOAT and someone who can't be beat. But I do think there's a level of responsibility that she neglected to take care of when it comes to her team and think she owes it to them to give them more of an excuse than she did at the podium of "there's more to life than gymnastics". That's a cop out IMO and I feel for her teammates who missed a chance at gold due to her pulling out...especially when it was non-medical related.
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Like Bosk and Harmony said....we/I don't know her or know what she's going through. I've suffered from anxiety and panic attack issues in the past so I know how crippling it can be. And again, I truly feel for her as a human. It's a huge stage to fail on especially when you've been promoted as being the GOAT and someone who can't be beat. But I do think there's a level of responsibility that she neglected to take care of when it comes to her team and think she owes it to them to give them more of an excuse than she did at the podium of "there's more to life than gymnastics". That's a cop out IMO and I feel for her teammates who missed a chance at gold due to her pulling out...especially when it was non-medical related.
That's how I feel.
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(https://i.imgur.com/ec7MtkY.jpg)
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Like Bosk and Harmony said....we/I don't know her or know what she's going through. I've suffered from anxiety and panic attack issues in the past so I know how crippling it can be. And again, I truly feel for her as a human. It's a huge stage to fail on especially when you've been promoted as being the GOAT and someone who can't be beat. But I do think there's a level of responsibility that she neglected to take care of when it comes to her team and think she owes it to them to give them more of an excuse than she did at the podium of "there's more to life than gymnastics". That's a cop out IMO and I feel for her teammates who missed a chance at gold due to her pulling out...especially when it was non-medical related.
That's how I feel.
On a physical level, she still qualifies as goat, she is literally years beyond all the competition in what she's capable of. I can totally see the pressure of all that, the pressure of being under the microscope of the asshole press and even worse social media, topped with the genuine pressure of being on the world's biggest stage being overwhelming. Shit, talking to new people is overwhelming to me.
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(https://i.imgur.com/ec7MtkY.jpg)
Best idea...EVER!!!
Trying the whitewater kayaking course would be EPIC!!!
On the other hand:
"PG approaches the first hurdle and...he stops!" "What do you think is happening here, FloJo?" "Well, Bob, that hurdle is about 10 inches higher than his inseam measurement, so...."
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Japan beats the US in softball for the gold...
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Japan beats the US in softball for the gold...
That was fast. Of course, I imagine there weren't too many teams in the softball tournament.
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Here's a potentially interesting topic for discussion. This is an edited (by me) version of a rant I saw on Facebook (the substance of the original has not been changed):
"Why is it that women can only perform their best athletic feats damned near nekkid while men can break world records practically dressed in a suit of armor? From the layperson's perspective, it would seem to me that all athletes would do better with MOST of their ass cheeks INSIDE the designated uniform. I don't know about y'all, but pulling my shorts ALL the way out of the crack of my ass every three steps tends to reduce my best time doing ANYTHING. If a grown ass man can do the splits while wearing footie pajamas, we can put some shorts on the GIRLS competing in gymnastics. Of course, I suspect that these wardrobe decisions are made with an eye towards enticing men into watching women's sports. Seriously, how is a woman running faster than you can ride a bike or skate not interesting enough on its own? How is a woman using a flimsy ass pole to vault herself a height equal to the roof of your house not worth a peek without it also being a peep show?"
The post was accompanied by several pictures -- mostly of male and female track & field and beach volleyball players.
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Like Bosk and Harmony said....we/I don't know her or know what she's going through. I've suffered from anxiety and panic attack issues in the past so I know how crippling it can be. And again, I truly feel for her as a human. It's a huge stage to fail on especially when you've been promoted as being the GOAT and someone who can't be beat. But I do think there's a level of responsibility that she neglected to take care of when it comes to her team and think she owes it to them to give them more of an excuse than she did at the podium of "there's more to life than gymnastics". That's a cop out IMO and I feel for her teammates who missed a chance at gold due to her pulling out...especially when it was non-medical related.
That's how I feel.
Yeah... And I also think it is understandable and "fine" to simultaneously feel sympathetic for her and want to not be judgmental while also feeling disappointed in her that she let her teammates down. That's about how I feel, and I don't think that is even remotely "jumping down her throat," as Grappler put it. But, again, on the latter point, I am also fine with letting that go and realizing that, ultimately, it is between her and her teammates.
Here's a potentially interesting topic for discussion. This is an edited (by me) version of a rant I saw on Facebook (the substance of the original has not been changed):
"Why is it that women can only perform their best athletic feats damned near nekkid while men can break world records practically dressed in a suit of armor? From the layperson's perspective, it would seem to me that all athletes would do better with MOST of their ass cheeks INSIDE the designated uniform. I don't know about y'all, but pulling my shorts ALL the way out of the crack of my ass every three steps tends to reduce my best time doing ANYTHING. If a grown ass man can do the splits while wearing footie pajamas, we can put some shorts on the GIRLS competing in gymnastics. Of course, I suspect that these wardrobe decisions are made with an eye towards enticing men into watching women's sports. Seriously, how is a woman running faster than you can ride a bike or skate not interesting enough on its own? How is a woman using a flimsy ass pole to vault herself a height equal to the roof of your house not worth a peek without it also being a peep show?"
The post was accompanied by several pictures -- mostly of male and female track & field and beach volleyball players.
Couldn't agree more. The disparity is especially noticeable in beach volleyball, where the men where board shorts and tank tops, whereas the women are in what boils down to a thong and sports bra.
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As someone who is currently home from work due to his anxiety, I feel very strongly about mental health issues. Watching one of the greatest athletes of my generation regardless of sport walk away from the biggest sporting event in the world to focus on her mental health hits home for me, and for people to criticize her for it and say it makes her less great really strikes a nerve with me. The constant lack of regard for mental health as a serious issue is heartbreaking to me. The brain is the most important part of the body, it literally controls everything, so if it isn’t working right your whole body isn’t working right. People can’t possibly expect you to be ok if your brain isn’t functioning properly, but society treats mental health issues like an afterthought at best and a joke at worst. The stigma that you’re weak if you’re struggling mentally and you just have to get over it instead of address it has caused many people to crack, to have a breakdown, to death. We’re seeing it happen with Simone Biles right now and IMO, anything less than respect and support for her is unacceptable.
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Going back to the women's cycling, that gold medal finish by Kiesenhofer of Austria was so great. I know I already said that. But hearing her talk about it after the fact is incredible. She says she actually was in as much physical agony as her face appeared to convey as she was finishing those last kilometers, and she felt like her body would have given out if she had to go any farther.
And what makes it all the more remarkable is that, apparently, the Dutch team, who were favored to win gold and possibly gold/silver or even a sweep, didn't even realize she had broken away because she wasn't even on their radar in terms of riders to watch. When Van Vleuten crossed the finish line, she legitimately thought she had won the gold. :lol [Kiesenhofer] held firm to claim a completely unexpected gold medal in three hours 52 minutes, one minute and 15 seconds, clear of Dutch rider Annemiek Van Vleuten who was celebrating like she had won the race as she crossed the line with arms held aloft.
"I thought I was one," Van Vleuten was heard saying to her team masseur Ruud Ziljmans on Dutch TV. "Ruud have I got that wrong?"
...
"We thought we were doing it right, we took the Polish and the Israeli back and we thought we were driving for the gold."
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Here's a potentially interesting topic for discussion. This is an edited (by me) version of a rant I saw on Facebook (the substance of the original has not been changed):
"Why is it that women can only perform their best athletic feats damned near nekkid while men can break world records practically dressed in a suit of armor? From the layperson's perspective, it would seem to me that all athletes would do better with MOST of their ass cheeks INSIDE the designated uniform. I don't know about y'all, but pulling my shorts ALL the way out of the crack of my ass every three steps tends to reduce my best time doing ANYTHING. If a grown ass man can do the splits while wearing footie pajamas, we can put some shorts on the GIRLS competing in gymnastics. Of course, I suspect that these wardrobe decisions are made with an eye towards enticing men into watching women's sports. Seriously, how is a woman running faster than you can ride a bike or skate not interesting enough on its own? How is a woman using a flimsy ass pole to vault herself a height equal to the roof of your house not worth a peek without it also being a peep show?"
The post was accompanied by several pictures -- mostly of male and female track & field and beach volleyball players.
Not related to the olympics, but the Norwegian Beach Handball team was recently fined for wearing shorts instead of bikini bottom..
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31889339/pop-singer-pink-supports-norwegian-women-beach-handball-team-protest-fines-very-sexist-uniform-rules
I think it's about time we revisit the uniform/dress code requirement for some sports.
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As someone who is currently home from work due to his anxiety, I feel very strongly about mental health issues. Watching one of the greatest athletes of my generation regardless of sport walk away from the biggest sporting event in the world to focus on her mental health hits home for me, and for people to criticize her for it and say it makes her less great really strikes a nerve with me. The constant lack of regard for mental health as a serious issue is heartbreaking to me. The brain is the most important part of the body, it literally controls everything, so if it isn’t working right your whole body isn’t working right. People can’t possibly expect you to be ok if your brain isn’t functioning properly, but society treats mental health issues like an afterthought at best and a joke at worst. The stigma that you’re weak if you’re struggling mentally and you just have to get over it instead of address it has caused many people to crack, to have a breakdown, to death. We’re seeing it happen with Simone Biles right now and IMO, anything less than respect and support for her is unacceptable.
Yet another dicey conversation, but I'm your biggest advocate. I've been saying for years we need to do more in terms of our mental wellbeing. I've been probably the biggest advocate for therapy as a part of anyone's mental and physical wellbeing - proactively - and that includes the therapists here. But at some point, our assessments can't be qualified. Being honest about her place in the pantheon cannot be viewed as "less than respect or support". It does no one any good to blow smoke up her skirt, and in fact that's perhaps why she even got where she was in the first place. I get that sensitivity is an important thing, but the cold hard facts still have to control.
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As someone who is currently home from work due to his anxiety, I feel very strongly about mental health issues. Watching one of the greatest athletes of my generation regardless of sport walk away from the biggest sporting event in the world to focus on her mental health hits home for me, and for people to criticize her for it and say it makes her less great really strikes a nerve with me. The constant lack of regard for mental health as a serious issue is heartbreaking to me. The brain is the most important part of the body, it literally controls everything, so if it isn’t working right your whole body isn’t working right. People can’t possibly expect you to be ok if your brain isn’t functioning properly, but society treats mental health issues like an afterthought at best and a joke at worst. The stigma that you’re weak if you’re struggling mentally and you just have to get over it instead of address it has caused many people to crack, to have a breakdown, to death. We’re seeing it happen with Simone Biles right now and IMO, anything less than respect and support for her is unacceptable.
I am truly sorry you are going through that, and I appreciate your perspective. But I don't think those that feel differently about "anything less than respect and support for her is unacceptable" are necessarily stigmatizing her condition or criticizing her. IMO, it isn't that binary. People can (and, in at least many cases, are) respect and support her while also being disappointed, for any number of reasons. I wholeheartedly agree that mental health issues should not be stigmatized, and that society at large needs to work hard to overcome any stigmatization. But I don't see what most of us are saying as that.
All that being said, I am open to hearing more of your perspective. But I don't think it is likely very productive for me to say much more myself. I've given my opinion, but I don't want to argue with you or dig in and make you feel like I am being insensitive to what I am saying. But by all means, feel free to continue to post and share more if you are inclined. I would love to hear more from your perspective.
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Not to harp on the Simone Biles situation too much as we’ve all shared how we feel about it, but I do think she’ll be back and when she does come back, she’ll be even better. I’m sure she doesn’t take her decision lightly, and if she puts in the necessary work, she’ll come out of this stronger. I’m not gonna go into details about my mental health here as I don’t think this is the place (if I decide to go into detail I’ll either find or make a thread about it so anyone here who wants to can discuss their struggles in a safe space), but nothing puts a chip on someone’s shoulder quite like their mind not allowing them to do what they normally can. We have not seen the last of Simone Biles, but for now, her focus should be on herself, while our focus should be on the other incredible world class athletes that we have the privilege of watching compete.
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I'm a winter Olympics guy myself. But lately, the only sports I watch are PGA and Nascar periodically. The Olympics aren't anything close to what they used to be. Of course, that goes for just about anything these days.
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Not to harp on the Simone Biles situation too much as we’ve all shared how we feel about it, but I do think she’ll be back and when she does come back, she’ll be even better. I’m sure she doesn’t take her decision lightly, and if she puts in the necessary work, she’ll come out of this stronger. I’m not gonna go into details about my mental health here as I don’t think this is the place (if I decide to go into detail I’ll either find or make a thread about it so anyone here who wants to can discuss their struggles in a safe space), but nothing puts a chip on someone’s shoulder quite like their mind not allowing them to do what they normally can. We have not seen the last of Simone Biles, but for now, her focus should be on herself, while our focus should be on the other incredible world class athletes that we have the privilege of watching compete.
And I should have said this in my first post, but thoughts are with you. I hope you find your way forward.
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Not to harp on the Simone Biles situation too much as we’ve all shared how we feel about it, but I do think she’ll be back and when she does come back, she’ll be even better. I’m sure she doesn’t take her decision lightly, and if she puts in the necessary work, she’ll come out of this stronger. I’m not gonna go into details about my mental health here as I don’t think this is the place (if I decide to go into detail I’ll either find or make a thread about it so anyone here who wants to can discuss their struggles in a safe space), but nothing puts a chip on someone’s shoulder quite like their mind not allowing them to do what they normally can. We have not seen the last of Simone Biles, but for now, her focus should be on herself, while our focus should be on the other incredible world class athletes that we have the privilege of watching compete.
If we had a "like" button here, I'd be liking your post. Thanks for saying this. FWIW, I agree with your line of thinking about SB.
And in continuing to think about the whole GOAT situation today I found myself musing about how the pandemic has impacted so many people. A simple Google search shows us that mental health issues including anxiety, depression, and suicide, have all peaked with the pandemic by very significant numbers. It shouldn't surprise anyone that someone with a history of severe sexual abuse/trauma who has had their plans for competition pulled out from underneath them at almost the last moment (2020) now under a microscope of enormous pressure and trying to perform under very strange and atypical circumstances (no crowd support, constant Covid testing, likely isolation from others) could potentially succumb.
I actually find myself admiring her even more now because she has the guts to call it what it is and saying this is what she needs to do for herself and her teammates (not bring them down from a chance at a medal). She is like a beacon of light for people struggling with mental health issues right now. She's showing the world they can take the stigma attached to mental health issues and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Her lack of ego is refreshing. Would that more athletes had those qualities.
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You never bothered to look into LeBron's childhood before making that comment, did you?
I knew what his upbringing was long before making that comment.
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Like Bosk and Harmony said....we/I don't know her or know what she's going through. I've suffered from anxiety and panic attack issues in the past so I know how crippling it can be. And again, I truly feel for her as a human. It's a huge stage to fail on especially when you've been promoted as being the GOAT and someone who can't be beat. But I do think there's a level of responsibility that she neglected to take care of when it comes to her team and think she owes it to them to give them more of an excuse than she did at the podium of "there's more to life than gymnastics". That's a cop out IMO and I feel for her teammates who missed a chance at gold due to her pulling out...especially when it was non-medical related.
That's how I feel.
Yeah... And I also think it is understandable and "fine" to simultaneously feel sympathetic for her and want to not be judgmental while also feeling disappointed in her that she let her teammates down. That's about how I feel, and I don't think that is even remotely "jumping down her throat," as Grappler put it. But, again, on the latter point, I am also fine with letting that go and realizing that, ultimately, it is between her and her teammates.
Well, sure of course it is, and at the end if the day I guess that's all that matters. But she is quitting on them. But these are young girls compared to the highly decorated veteran Biles, so I'm pretty sure no one is going to speak up if she feels differently.
Not to harp on the Simone Biles situation too much as we’ve all shared how we feel about it, but I do think she’ll be back and when she does come back, she’ll be even better. I’m sure she doesn’t take her decision lightly, and if she puts in the necessary work, she’ll come out of this stronger. I’m not gonna go into details about my mental health here as I don’t think this is the place (if I decide to go into detail I’ll either find or make a thread about it so anyone here who wants to can discuss their struggles in a safe space), but nothing puts a chip on someone’s shoulder quite like their mind not allowing them to do what they normally can. We have not seen the last of Simone Biles, but for now, her focus should be on herself, while our focus should be on the other incredible world class athletes that we have the privilege of watching compete.
If we had a "like" button here, I'd be liking your post. Thanks for saying this. FWIW, I agree with your line of thinking about SB.
And in continuing to think about the whole GOAT situation today I found myself musing about how the pandemic has impacted so many people. A simple Google search shows us that mental health issues including anxiety, depression, and suicide, have all peaked with the pandemic by very significant numbers. It shouldn't surprise anyone that someone with a history of severe sexual abuse/trauma who has had their plans for competition pulled out from underneath them at almost the last moment (2020) now under a microscope of enormous pressure and trying to perform under very strange and atypical circumstances (no crowd support, constant Covid testing, likely isolation from others) could potentially succumb.
I actually find myself admiring her even more now because she has the guts to call it what it is and saying this is what she needs to do for herself and her teammates (not bring them down from a chance at a medal). She is like a beacon of light for people struggling with mental health issues right now. She's showing the world they can take the stigma attached to mental health issues and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Her lack of ego is refreshing. Would that more athletes had those qualities.
So you guys truly believe Biles is suffering from "mental health issues"? I'm not buying it.
But if she is dealing with a confidence issue, or a self doubt issue, I can get on board with that because that is definitely on the "mental" side of things rather than the "physical" side of things.
I know most teams employ a sports psychologist, but if she's not mentally up to competing, I just don't feel like she should be championed for it. I don't know. I don't see it as brave at all. I think she wasn't up to it and quit.
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Not to harp on the Simone Biles situation too much as we’ve all shared how we feel about it, but I do think she’ll be back and when she does come back, she’ll be even better. I’m sure she doesn’t take her decision lightly, and if she puts in the necessary work, she’ll come out of this stronger. I’m not gonna go into details about my mental health here as I don’t think this is the place (if I decide to go into detail I’ll either find or make a thread about it so anyone here who wants to can discuss their struggles in a safe space), but nothing puts a chip on someone’s shoulder quite like their mind not allowing them to do what they normally can. We have not seen the last of Simone Biles, but for now, her focus should be on herself, while our focus should be on the other incredible world class athletes that we have the privilege of watching compete.
Sorry to hear about your state Count.
If we are equating this episode of Biles as the mental equivalent as "pulling a hammie", then I guess I can understand that. I would never call her not mentally tough. But this pull out just rubs me the wrong way. Sorry, being a dick I guess.
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I actually find myself admiring her even more now because she has the guts to call it what it is and saying this is what she needs to do for herself and her teammates (not bring them down from a chance at a medal). She is like a beacon of light for people struggling with mental health issues right now. She's showing the world they can take the stigma attached to mental health issues and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Her lack of ego is refreshing. Would that more athletes had those qualities.
Ugh..
If there's one thing she doesn't lack, it's ego.
This is the narrative that will drive me crazy.
Are we having this conversation if she stuck that vault? I doubt it.
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I wouldn't say it's a specific mental health issue, but she is prioritizing her mental health, just as did Osaka. I for one welcome it, we got enough sports to last all of us a lifetime, whave a grave dearth of people putting their mental health ahead of fame and fortune.
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I wouldn't say it's a specific mental health issue, but she is prioritizing her mental health, just as did Osaka. I for one welcome it, we got enough sports to last all of us a lifetime, whave a grave dearth of people putting their mental health ahead of fame and fortune.
I don't see this on the same level as Osaka in any way shape or form.
And Simon Biles already has fame and fortune...
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I wouldn't say it's a specific mental health issue, but she is prioritizing her mental health, just as did Osaka. I for one welcome it, we got enough sports to last all of us a lifetime, whave a grave dearth of people putting their mental health ahead of fame and fortune.
I don't see this on the same level as Osaka in any way shape or form.
And Simon Biles already has fame and fortune...
I beg to differ, I'd guess both situations were centered around tremendous anxiety, so much that the thought of going forward was crippling. One was facing the media, the other was not living up to tremendous expectations.
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I wouldn't say it's a specific mental health issue, but she is prioritizing her mental health, just as did Osaka. I for one welcome it, we got enough sports to last all of us a lifetime, whave a grave dearth of people putting their mental health ahead of fame and fortune.
I don't see this on the same level as Osaka in any way shape or form.
And Simon Biles already has fame and fortune...
I beg to differ, I'd guess both situations were centered around tremendous anxiety, so much that the thought of going forward was crippling. One was facing the media, the other was not living up to tremendous expectations.
Would she have quit if she scored a 10 on that vault?
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Who the fuck knows.
I will say this much, as armchair observers it's not our place to place judgements on her. If her teammates want to, sure, they understand the pressure and were most affected by the decision. I think most of us are just trying to assert our own measly understanding into a situation we're grossly unfamiliar with.
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I believe that once she blew the vault, she cracked.
And I don't think there's anything heroic or symbolic about it. She's a perfectionist, and couldn't deal with the result.
OK, I'm done with this thread, except to come in and laugh at the basketball team.
I'm going to to go P/R to cool down..
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This conversation had me intrigued. I'm not following the Olympics at all and had to google who this girl was. Eh, none of us are to judge anyone, their mental health or the reasons behind decisions they make, but this screams 'cop out' to me.
You don't get to the Olympics, the world class elite sporting event where the best of the best around the world compete against each other and then pull out due to mental health. You don't get to that level and then let your team mates and your country down. People dedicate their lives to get to where she is to compete, people would give anything to get her opportunity and this seems a bit of a spit in the face. Again, who knows what's going on behind the scenes. I don't find it heroic at all. You get through it and lose if you have to, you don't pull out at the start of the race.
Reading the articles annoyed me, but whatever, hopefully she gets the help she needs.
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Also, anyone that quits on the Olympics should get a life ban from ever being able to get the opportunity again.
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I wouldn't say it's a specific mental health issue, but she is prioritizing her mental health, just as did Osaka. I for one welcome it, we got enough sports to last all of us a lifetime, whave a grave dearth of people putting their mental health ahead of fame and fortune.
I don't see this on the same level as Osaka in any way shape or form.
And Simon Biles already has fame and fortune...
If you guys have a chance and watch the Osaka documentary on Netflix, you will understand why she withdrew from Wimbledon and the other tournament. Naomi is ancomolete introvert, 23 yrs old, who still has issues dealing with fame. Even after winning 4 grand slam tournaments. Simone on the other hand, is quite the opposite. By looking at both, Simone is by far mentally stronger than Naomi. I believe the complexity of her routines is what got Simome. Maybe if she goes to less complex and difficult routines, she would get her confidence back. Was Biles cracking and decided to use the mental health issues card? I dont know and I think we will never know.
Also, Biles just withdrew from this week’s all around individuals competition. She has a week to regroup for next weeks competitions.
Having said this, if I was a gymnast and was one shot away from being in Team USA, I would be totally upset on Biles quitting. Biles took away someone else’s spot. Biles had a long time to address her mental issues before the Olympics started. I do feel for Biles. I have dealt with severe depression and anxiety and it is something that doesnt get fixed overnight (went through two yrs of therapy and med. and there are days were I still struggle with either or both). Addressing your mental health also takes a lot of will power and recognizing that you are not ok. And that is why is a bit hard for me to understand why she withdrew (not that she owes me anything).I truly hooe she addresses her mental issues. And if I were her, I would also withdraw from next week’s competitions. Otherwise, it will look like she used the mental health card because she wasn’t performing well.
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I actually find myself admiring her even more now because she has the guts to call it what it is and saying this is what she needs to do for herself and her teammates (not bring them down from a chance at a medal). She is like a beacon of light for people struggling with mental health issues right now. She's showing the world they can take the stigma attached to mental health issues and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Her lack of ego is refreshing. Would that more athletes had those qualities.
Ugh..
If there's one thing she doesn't lack, it's ego.
This is the narrative that will drive me crazy.
Are we having this conversation if she stuck that vault? I doubt it.
There was a piece on my local news about the guy that apparently designed all her competition outfits or something like that (I was cooking at the time so missed the start) but I started watching once I heard what it was. And it's important to note that the person proudly pointed out that SHE specifically requested that there be a "goat" - the animal - somewhere in sequins on each of her uniforms.
I don't know. I feel for the person - as I've said repeatedly, I'm all for focusing on mental wellness, and I've been identifying this as a problem in our society for YEARS now and stand by that - but I'm not wholly convinced this is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I think this has a chance to backfire and create more stigma than less. I watched her interview last night after the team competition and it was less than convincing.
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When I heard SB mention "the twisties" I erroneously assumed that meant her stomach was tied up in knots. Here is what it actually means for those of us who are not gymnasts, divers, figure skaters, or anyone else who hurls themselves spinning through space:
Christina Myers, a former gymnast and now a gymnastics coach from Birmingham, Alabama, told BBC News that the twisties happen "when your brain and body disconnect".
"Imagine skydiving and your parachute won't open," she said. "Your body starts adding extra twists and flips to the skill you're supposed to be doing, and it can affect even the skills that feel as routine as walking to an elite gymnast...
"Your brain wants nothing more than to perform the intended skill correctly, but your body feels like it suddenly has a mind of its own."
She added that "because the twisties are mainly psychological, the harder you try to push through, the harder the twisties push back".
For her generation of gymnasts, she said, mental pain was not seen as a valid reason for taking a break from the sport.
Trying to push through the twisties "led to a spinal stress fracture - an overuse injury made worse by trying to push through", ultimately forcing her to stop competing.
Another ex-gymnast, Catherine Burns, compared it to being on a motorway and suddenly losing your muscle memory of how to drive.
"You're moving way too fast, you're totally lost, you're trying to think but you know you don't usually have to think to do these manoeuvres, you just feel them and do them," she tweeted. "It's not only scary and unnerving, it's incredibly dangerous even if you're doing basic gymnastics."
The twisties can also lead to serious injury.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57986166
Also - someone mentioned Kerri Strug. I read this yesterday about her experience.
This realization I had about Simone Biles is gonna make some people mad, but oh well.
Yesterday I was excited to show my daughters Kerri Strug's famous one-leg vault. It was a defining Olympic moment that I watched live as a kid, and my girls watched raptly as Strug fell, and then limped back to leap again.
But for some reason I wasn't as inspired watching it this time. In fact, I felt a little sick. Maybe being a father and teacher has made me soft, but all I could see was how Kerri Strug looked at her coach, Bela Karolyi, with pleading, terrified eyes, while he shouted back "You can do it!" over and over again.
My daughters didn't cheer when Strug landed her second vault. Instead they frowned in concern as she collapsed in agony and frantic tears.
"Why did she jump again if she was hurt?" one of my girls asked. I made some inane reply about the heart of a champion or Olympic spirit, but in the back of my mind a thought was festering:
*She shouldn't have jumped again*
The more the thought echoed, the stronger my realization became. Coach Karolyi should have gotten his visibly injured athlete medical help immediately! Now that I have two young daughters in gymnastics, I expect their safety to be the coach's number one priority. Instead, Bela Karolyi told Strug to vault again. And he got what he wanted; a gold medal that was more important to him than his athlete's health.
I'm sure people will say "Kerri Strug was a competitor--she WANTED to push through the injury." That's probably true. But since the last Olympics we've also learned these athletes were put into positions where they could be systematically abused both emotionally and physically, all while being inundated with "win at all costs" messaging. A teenager under those conditions should have been protected, and told "No medal is worth the risk of permanent injury." In fact, we now know that Strug's vault wasn't even necessary to clinch the gold; the U.S. already had an insurmountable lead. Nevertheless, Bela Karolyi told her to vault again according to his own recounting of their conversation:
"I can't feel my leg," Strug told Karolyi.
"We got to go one more time," Karolyi said. "Shake it out."
"Do I have to do this again?" Strug asked.
"Can you, can you?" Karolyi wanted to know.
"I don't know yet," said Strug. "I will do it. I will, I will."
The injury forced Strug's retirement at 18 years old. Dominique Moceanu, a generational talent, also retired from injuries shortly after. They were top gymnasts literally pushed to the breaking point, and then put out to pasture. Coach Karolyi and Larry Nassar (the serial sexual abuser) continued their long careers, while the athletes were treated as a disposable resource.
Today Simone Biles--the greatest gymnast of all time--chose to step back from the competition, citing concerns for mental and physical health. I've already seen comments and posts about how Biles "failed her country", "quit on us", or "can't be the greatest if she can't handle the pressure." Those statements are no different than Coach Karolyi telling an injured teen with wide, frightened eyes: "We got to go one more time. Shake it out."
The subtext here is: "Our gold medal is more important than your well-being."
Our athletes shouldn't have to destroy themselves to meet our standards. If giving empathetic, authentic support to our Olympians means we'll earn less gold medals, I'm happy to make that trade.
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The Karolyis were evil fucking people. There's never been a doubt.
You go to their facility, you (as a parent) are basically handing your daughter off to mad people.
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Good article, good insight, but I object to the personification of that last paragraph or two. It's not MY gold medal; I could give a shit.
I don't think it's for us to say whether it's worth it or not. I think the judgment that "no medal is worth injury" from a third party is just as problematic as the judgement that "the gold medal is worth more than your individual being" from a third party. It's not our (the peanut gallery) call whether the athlete lives with the regret of being this close, or lives with the memory of overcoming obstacles at some personal cost. There was already so much sacrifice from those people - the athletes, the families, the friends - to even get to that point, that it's not something we should be making proclamations about from in front of our computer as we wolf down a Jersey Mike's Old Fashioned Italian. I'm not taking sides here; I don't know, I don't have the answer, and I've never been in that position either as an athlete or a father, since I sucked* and my kid got my ex-wife's athletic ability. But EDIT: as TAC points out, one hires Bela Karolyi for a reason and with full understanding. Their determination should carry more weight than a pundit or observer.
(And no, I don't at all consider "pushing an athlete to his/her limits on the field" to be abuse, and CERTAINLY not abuse at the level of Larry Nassar.)
* I was actually a very good athlete, but I was a big-ish fish in a really small pond. I never had any real taste of greatness at the levels we're talking about.
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* I was actually a very good athlete,
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GiganticUnkemptGoldenmantledgroundsquirrel-size_restricted.gif)
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:lol
Also, in gymnastics, a mental mistake can leave one paralyzed. My final comment from all this is that she has the full support and praise of her teammates concerning her decision, every other opinion really doesn't matter much, including mine.
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* I was actually a very good athlete,
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GiganticUnkemptGoldenmantledgroundsquirrel-size_restricted.gif)
Hahaha!!! :rollin :rollin
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* I was actually a very good athlete,
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GiganticUnkemptGoldenmantledgroundsquirrel-size_restricted.gif)
4 touchdowns in a single game!
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I saw Simone Biles interviewed on 60 Minutes a couple of months ago. She talked about how intensely she had trained for the Olympics and how devastating it was when they were postponed from 2020 to 2021. She had to give some consideration as to whether she wanted to go through the training process for an additional year due to the postponement.
I find it confounding that she would pull out after putting in so much work, and don't think that would happen if there wasn't a good reason.
She was also a victim of that gymnastics coach who sexually abused so many girls, so it’s no surprise that she has mental health issues beyond the pressures of being an elite athlete.
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I think that bowing out will affect Simone's mental state in the long run. For any driven person that has ever quit something, that never leaves you. Hopefully, this doesn't stick with her and cause serious mental illness down the road. They didn't win the gold, and probably would have if she competed. That would weigh on any human being's mind. She had a serious mental block that could have caused her serious injury and she probably made the right move. Does it deserve praise and accolades? Not to me. I don't love the martyrdom around this. It takes attention away from her team. I wish she stuck to the facts of what happened and why she dropped out rather than getting on a soap box about mental health. But, my opinion doesn't matter. I'm not going to bring her down with it on her Instagram page. Winning and success are not exactly rewarded these days. But in the end, that's the stuff that will keep you going or bring you down if you don't give yourself the opportunity.
-Tof
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When I heard SB mention "the twisties" I erroneously assumed that meant her stomach was tied up in knots. Here is what it actually means for those of us who are not gymnasts, divers, figure skaters, or anyone else who hurls themselves spinning through space:
I felt like I don't really have enough information to judge whether Simone Biles did the right thing - but I leaned on the side of thinking that she probably did. After reading the above and similar posts, it strengthens that feeling. I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened, so she could be lying, she could be exaggerating, she could have had a little tantrum because her vault didn't go well and decided to quit. But with no evidence to support that, I'm more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. From what I've read and from some of the commentary, her vault already likely cost the USA the gold. Had she pushed on and continued to perform badly, it could have cost them a medal at all. Rather than letting the team down, she possibly helped them out. And with the explanation of the twisties, she possibly could have seriously injured herself as well. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to see her carried out on a stretcher. I get that it's annoying to see people fawning over her and talking about what a hero she is, but that's just what people do; they fawn over their favorite athletes, make everything dramatic, and put them on a pedestal. I don't think she's necessarily a "hero" but she isn't "not a hero" either. She just made the best decision she could at the time.
I'm not qualified to say whether she's the greatest of all time or not, but if she was before this, imo she still is now. All the golds she won in Rio haven't disappeared. All of her World championships haven't disappeared. Kerri Strug tweeted a goat emoji in support of Biles, so it's not looking like she Strug thinks she's no longer deserving.
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When I heard SB mention "the twisties" I erroneously assumed that meant her stomach was tied up in knots. Here is what it actually means for those of us who are not gymnasts, divers, figure skaters, or anyone else who hurls themselves spinning through space:
I felt like I don't really have enough information to judge whether Simone Biles did the right thing - but I leaned on the side of thinking that she probably did. After reading the above and similar posts, it strengthens that feeling. I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened, so she could be lying, she could be exaggerating, she could have had a little tantrum because her vault didn't go well and decided to quit. But with no evidence to support that, I'm more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. From what I've read and from some of the commentary, her vault already likely cost the USA the gold. Had she pushed on and continued to perform badly, it could have cost them a medal at all. Rather than letting the team down, she possibly helped them out. And with the explanation of the twisties, she possibly could have seriously injured herself as well. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to see her carried out on a stretcher. I get that it's annoying to see people fawning over her and talking about what a hero she is, but that's just what people do; they fawn over their favorite athletes, make everything dramatic, and put them on a pedestal. I don't think she's necessarily a "hero" but she isn't "not a hero" either. She just made the best decision she could at the time.
But as many said, it's not a "yes/no" situation. Did she do right for herself? Only she and her closest advisers can say. But what's good for HER may not be the best for the group - the team - nor may not be the best message for the rest of the world. That's the part that I think many don't acknowledge, and some of the support - SOME of it, not all of it - reflects that. Maybe next time the World Trade Center is bombed, the firefighters that arrive ought to be able to determine "I'm not mentally ready for this, maybe I should sit this one out and let my teammates do this. I could get hurt, after all!". Harsh, I know, but there is context for EVERYTHING, and the "moment" isn't the only one and isn't necessarily right.
I'm not qualified to say whether she's the greatest of all time or not, but if she was before this, imo she still is now. All the golds she won in Rio haven't disappeared. All of her World championships haven't disappeared. Kerri Strug tweeted a goat emoji in support of Biles, so it's not looking like she Strug thinks she's no longer deserving.
I don't think we can make that assumption. Again, NOT binary; this isn't a "you're with us or you're against us" scenario. She can give support without necessarily making that her new assessment of the history of women's gymnastics. Maybe she DOES still consider her the greatest, but I think that very nature of reading into things like that is what got us here in the first place, no? It's the same with my criticisms of Patrick Mahomes in the NFL thread; why not let these athletes assemble a complete body of work before enshrining them in the pantheon of history? Part of the problem is deeming them the GOAT before they've actually proved it, and making them live up to that. (Watch that guy that used to work for the Patriots; he STILL TO THIS DAY does not use the praise to motivate himself, but the detractors. Tell that guy he CAN'T do something and he's likely to prove you wrong.)
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After rallying her team to the silver in the wake of Biles withdrawal, Sunisa Lee takes the individual all around gold in gymnastics.
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When I heard SB mention "the twisties" I erroneously assumed that meant her stomach was tied up in knots. Here is what it actually means for those of us who are not gymnasts, divers, figure skaters, or anyone else who hurls themselves spinning through space:
I felt like I don't really have enough information to judge whether Simone Biles did the right thing - but I leaned on the side of thinking that she probably did. After reading the above and similar posts, it strengthens that feeling. I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened, so she could be lying, she could be exaggerating, she could have had a little tantrum because her vault didn't go well and decided to quit. But with no evidence to support that, I'm more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. From what I've read and from some of the commentary, her vault already likely cost the USA the gold. Had she pushed on and continued to perform badly, it could have cost them a medal at all. Rather than letting the team down, she possibly helped them out. And with the explanation of the twisties, she possibly could have seriously injured herself as well. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to see her carried out on a stretcher. I get that it's annoying to see people fawning over her and talking about what a hero she is, but that's just what people do; they fawn over their favorite athletes, make everything dramatic, and put them on a pedestal. I don't think she's necessarily a "hero" but she isn't "not a hero" either. She just made the best decision she could at the time.
But as many said, it's not a "yes/no" situation. Did she do right for herself? Only she and her closest advisers can say. But what's good for HER may not be the best for the group - the team - nor may not be the best message for the rest of the world. That's the part that I think many don't acknowledge, and some of the support - SOME of it, not all of it - reflects that. Maybe next time the World Trade Center is bombed, the firefighters that arrive ought to be able to determine "I'm not mentally ready for this, maybe I should sit this one out and let my teammates do this. I could get hurt, after all!". Harsh, I know, but there is context for EVERYTHING, and the "moment" isn't the only one and isn't necessarily right.
Not really harsh, but kind of silly. For one, I already addressed the team aspect. It's quite possible she the result for the team would have been worse had she stayed in. There's no way for us to know. And the firefighter comparison doesn't quite work. If they don't do their job, lots of people die. (And even so - if said firefighter is in a really bad mental state, to where it's possible going in would put the rest of the team at more risk, then don't go). Simone Biles pulls out, and what happened? The alternate steps in and the team gets a silver medal, no one dies. And again, her staying in wasn't guaranteed gold - sounds like she likely already cost them that with the vault.
I'm not qualified to say whether she's the greatest of all time or not, but if she was before this, imo she still is now. All the golds she won in Rio haven't disappeared. All of her World championships haven't disappeared. Kerri Strug tweeted a goat emoji in support of Biles, so it's not looking like she Strug thinks she's no longer deserving.
I don't think we can make that assumption. Again, NOT binary; this isn't a "you're with us or you're against us" scenario. She can give support without necessarily making that her new assessment of the history of women's gymnastics. Maybe she DOES still consider her the greatest, but I think that very nature of reading into things like that is what got us here in the first place, no? It's the same with my criticisms of Patrick Mahomes in the NFL thread; why not let these athletes assemble a complete body of work before enshrining them in the pantheon of history? Part of the problem is deeming them the GOAT before they've actually proved it, and making them live up to that. (Watch that guy that used to work for the Patriots; he STILL TO THIS DAY does not use the praise to motivate himself, but the detractors. Tell that guy he CAN'T do something and he's likely to prove you wrong.)
I'm not saying we should all be calling her (or anyone) the greatest while they're career is ongoing. Not at all. But I do think the statements that she definitively isn't are just as premature. Let things play out.
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After rallying her team to the silver in the wake of Biles withdrawal, Sunisa Lee takes the individual all around gold in gymnastics.
That's a great story.
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After rallying her team to the silver in the wake of Biles withdrawal, Sunisa Lee takes the individual all around gold in gymnastics.
That's a great story.
Right? Talk about being thrust into the spotlight and crushing it.
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When I heard SB mention "the twisties" I erroneously assumed that meant her stomach was tied up in knots. Here is what it actually means for those of us who are not gymnasts, divers, figure skaters, or anyone else who hurls themselves spinning through space:
I felt like I don't really have enough information to judge whether Simone Biles did the right thing - but I leaned on the side of thinking that she probably did. After reading the above and similar posts, it strengthens that feeling. I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened, so she could be lying, she could be exaggerating, she could have had a little tantrum because her vault didn't go well and decided to quit. But with no evidence to support that, I'm more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. From what I've read and from some of the commentary, her vault already likely cost the USA the gold. Had she pushed on and continued to perform badly, it could have cost them a medal at all. Rather than letting the team down, she possibly helped them out. And with the explanation of the twisties, she possibly could have seriously injured herself as well. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to see her carried out on a stretcher. I get that it's annoying to see people fawning over her and talking about what a hero she is, but that's just what people do; they fawn over their favorite athletes, make everything dramatic, and put them on a pedestal. I don't think she's necessarily a "hero" but she isn't "not a hero" either. She just made the best decision she could at the time.
But as many said, it's not a "yes/no" situation. Did she do right for herself? Only she and her closest advisers can say. But what's good for HER may not be the best for the group - the team - nor may not be the best message for the rest of the world. That's the part that I think many don't acknowledge, and some of the support - SOME of it, not all of it - reflects that. Maybe next time the World Trade Center is bombed, the firefighters that arrive ought to be able to determine "I'm not mentally ready for this, maybe I should sit this one out and let my teammates do this. I could get hurt, after all!". Harsh, I know, but there is context for EVERYTHING, and the "moment" isn't the only one and isn't necessarily right.
Not really harsh, but kind of silly. For one, I already addressed the team aspect. It's quite possible she the result for the team would have been worse had she stayed in. There's no way for us to know. And the firefighter comparison doesn't quite work. If they don't do their job, lots of people die. (And even so - if said firefighter is in a really bad mental state, to where it's possible going in would put the rest of the team at more risk, then don't go). Simone Biles pulls out, and what happened? The alternate steps in and the team gets a silver medal, no one dies. And again, her staying in wasn't guaranteed gold - sounds like she likely already cost them that with the vault.
Just reinforcing my point that it's a subjective discussion and not up to us, as outsiders, to make our value judgement. Whether someone might die or not is not necessarily some magic determinative point. If I've trained my entire cognizant life for an event that may be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, is it for you or me to determine for them that is a "lesser" event and not of equal weight? I don't think so.
I'm not qualified to say whether she's the greatest of all time or not, but if she was before this, imo she still is now. All the golds she won in Rio haven't disappeared. All of her World championships haven't disappeared. Kerri Strug tweeted a goat emoji in support of Biles, so it's not looking like she Strug thinks she's no longer deserving.
I don't think we can make that assumption. Again, NOT binary; this isn't a "you're with us or you're against us" scenario. She can give support without necessarily making that her new assessment of the history of women's gymnastics. Maybe she DOES still consider her the greatest, but I think that very nature of reading into things like that is what got us here in the first place, no? It's the same with my criticisms of Patrick Mahomes in the NFL thread; why not let these athletes assemble a complete body of work before enshrining them in the pantheon of history? Part of the problem is deeming them the GOAT before they've actually proved it, and making them live up to that. (Watch that guy that used to work for the Patriots; he STILL TO THIS DAY does not use the praise to motivate himself, but the detractors. Tell that guy he CAN'T do something and he's likely to prove you wrong.)
I'm not saying we should all be calling her (or anyone) the greatest while they're career is ongoing. Not at all. But I do think the statements that she definitively isn't are just as premature. Let things play out.
I agree with you 100% and didn't mean to imply otherwise, except to say that there are some things that sort of by their nature preclude the discussion; there are countless athletes - Carson Wentz comes to mind - who are good players, but for whatever reason, when the "big game" came along were hurt or otherwise unable to take the field. But if you read any of my posts in the NFL thread, I'm fine with waiting for the career to be over to do the post-mortem on their place in history.
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After rallying her team to the silver in the wake of Biles withdrawal, Sunisa Lee takes the individual all around gold in gymnastics.
That's awesome! I can't wait to see it. She was really impressive up until today. It's nice to see some great news.
-Tof
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When I heard SB mention "the twisties" I erroneously assumed that meant her stomach was tied up in knots. Here is what it actually means for those of us who are not gymnasts, divers, figure skaters, or anyone else who hurls themselves spinning through space:
I felt like I don't really have enough information to judge whether Simone Biles did the right thing - but I leaned on the side of thinking that she probably did. After reading the above and similar posts, it strengthens that feeling. I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened, so she could be lying, she could be exaggerating, she could have had a little tantrum because her vault didn't go well and decided to quit. But with no evidence to support that, I'm more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. From what I've read and from some of the commentary, her vault already likely cost the USA the gold. Had she pushed on and continued to perform badly, it could have cost them a medal at all. Rather than letting the team down, she possibly helped them out. And with the explanation of the twisties, she possibly could have seriously injured herself as well. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to see her carried out on a stretcher. I get that it's annoying to see people fawning over her and talking about what a hero she is, but that's just what people do; they fawn over their favorite athletes, make everything dramatic, and put them on a pedestal. I don't think she's necessarily a "hero" but she isn't "not a hero" either. She just made the best decision she could at the time.
But as many said, it's not a "yes/no" situation. Did she do right for herself? Only she and her closest advisers can say. But what's good for HER may not be the best for the group - the team - nor may not be the best message for the rest of the world. That's the part that I think many don't acknowledge, and some of the support - SOME of it, not all of it - reflects that. Maybe next time the World Trade Center is bombed, the firefighters that arrive ought to be able to determine "I'm not mentally ready for this, maybe I should sit this one out and let my teammates do this. I could get hurt, after all!". Harsh, I know, but there is context for EVERYTHING, and the "moment" isn't the only one and isn't necessarily right.
Not really harsh, but kind of silly. For one, I already addressed the team aspect. It's quite possible she the result for the team would have been worse had she stayed in. There's no way for us to know. And the firefighter comparison doesn't quite work. If they don't do their job, lots of people die. (And even so - if said firefighter is in a really bad mental state, to where it's possible going in would put the rest of the team at more risk, then don't go). Simone Biles pulls out, and what happened? The alternate steps in and the team gets a silver medal, no one dies. And again, her staying in wasn't guaranteed gold - sounds like she likely already cost them that with the vault.
Just reinforcing my point that it's a subjective discussion and not up to us, as outsiders, to make our value judgement. Whether someone might die or not is not necessarily some magic determinative point. If I've trained my entire cognizant life for an event that may be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, is it for you or me to determine for them that is a "lesser" event and not of equal weight? I don't think so.
For those of us who aren't competing, we absolutely can say that people's lives are more important than a gold medal. There's no comparison; there's no slippery slope that your comment seemed to be implying by saying that if Biles can do what she did, it'll give first responders the wrong idea. I'm not suggesting we sit down with the athletes and tell them that their event is "lesser" than anything.
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When I heard SB mention "the twisties" I erroneously assumed that meant her stomach was tied up in knots. Here is what it actually means for those of us who are not gymnasts, divers, figure skaters, or anyone else who hurls themselves spinning through space:
I felt like I don't really have enough information to judge whether Simone Biles did the right thing - but I leaned on the side of thinking that she probably did. After reading the above and similar posts, it strengthens that feeling. I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened, so she could be lying, she could be exaggerating, she could have had a little tantrum because her vault didn't go well and decided to quit. But with no evidence to support that, I'm more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. From what I've read and from some of the commentary, her vault already likely cost the USA the gold. Had she pushed on and continued to perform badly, it could have cost them a medal at all. Rather than letting the team down, she possibly helped them out. And with the explanation of the twisties, she possibly could have seriously injured herself as well. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to see her carried out on a stretcher. I get that it's annoying to see people fawning over her and talking about what a hero she is, but that's just what people do; they fawn over their favorite athletes, make everything dramatic, and put them on a pedestal. I don't think she's necessarily a "hero" but she isn't "not a hero" either. She just made the best decision she could at the time.
But as many said, it's not a "yes/no" situation. Did she do right for herself? Only she and her closest advisers can say. But what's good for HER may not be the best for the group - the team - nor may not be the best message for the rest of the world. That's the part that I think many don't acknowledge, and some of the support - SOME of it, not all of it - reflects that. Maybe next time the World Trade Center is bombed, the firefighters that arrive ought to be able to determine "I'm not mentally ready for this, maybe I should sit this one out and let my teammates do this. I could get hurt, after all!". Harsh, I know, but there is context for EVERYTHING, and the "moment" isn't the only one and isn't necessarily right.
Not really harsh, but kind of silly. For one, I already addressed the team aspect. It's quite possible she the result for the team would have been worse had she stayed in. There's no way for us to know. And the firefighter comparison doesn't quite work. If they don't do their job, lots of people die. (And even so - if said firefighter is in a really bad mental state, to where it's possible going in would put the rest of the team at more risk, then don't go). Simone Biles pulls out, and what happened? The alternate steps in and the team gets a silver medal, no one dies. And again, her staying in wasn't guaranteed gold - sounds like she likely already cost them that with the vault.
Just reinforcing my point that it's a subjective discussion and not up to us, as outsiders, to make our value judgement. Whether someone might die or not is not necessarily some magic determinative point. If I've trained my entire cognizant life for an event that may be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, is it for you or me to determine for them that is a "lesser" event and not of equal weight? I don't think so.
For those of us who aren't competing, we absolutely can say that people's lives are more important than a gold medal. There's no comparison; there's no slippery slope that your comment seemed to be implying by saying that if Biles can do what she did, it'll give first responders the wrong idea. I'm not suggesting we sit down with the athletes and tell them that their event is "lesser" than anything.
No, actually you cannot, not for anyone but yourself. One would HOPE that others would value life higher than an object, medal or achievement, but that's not for YOU to say FOR SOMEONE ELSE. When it comes to behavior, and particularly when it comes to risk of that behavior, there are far more examples in history of IRRATIONAL behavior than rational behavior.
Ask Dale Earnhardt (and, by the way, his son, if you've read his book about his battles with concussions) about whether his sport is worth his life.
And given what I've seen over the past 20 years - and the data that appears to be backing it up - I ABSOLUTELY think that over time what Biles and Osaka did may incorporate itself into the zeitgeist. We are in an almost crippling state of mass insecurity in our nation, contributing to the mass killings we've experienced over the last 20 years, the significant increase in suicides, the divisiveness that is corrupting our government, the racism that is flooding our society... don't for a second believe these are isolated, unrelated phenomena driven simply by those that "don't think like us". I've posted numerous articles that back this up, even though it runs afoul of the general tactical narrative we see from our politicians and those (too insecure) to account for the fact that someone might actually think different than we do.
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This Olympics conversation is fun y'all.
Anyway, I'm not bored enough to watch the Olympics, but I look forward to seeing how the men's basketball story unfolds. If a Durant-led team doesn't bring home the gold, it'll fuel the haters who say he can't win by himself. And I would love to see Slovenia compete for a medal.
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Dumb question (perhaps):
Why is the abbreviation that's being used for Russia "ROC"? When I first saw it (I think during a volleyball game), I thought it was "Republic of China," but none of the athletes on that team looked Chinese, and then the announcer kept referring to "the Russians." Shouldn't it be "RUS"?
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When I heard SB mention "the twisties" I erroneously assumed that meant her stomach was tied up in knots. Here is what it actually means for those of us who are not gymnasts, divers, figure skaters, or anyone else who hurls themselves spinning through space:
I felt like I don't really have enough information to judge whether Simone Biles did the right thing - but I leaned on the side of thinking that she probably did. After reading the above and similar posts, it strengthens that feeling. I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened, so she could be lying, she could be exaggerating, she could have had a little tantrum because her vault didn't go well and decided to quit. But with no evidence to support that, I'm more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. From what I've read and from some of the commentary, her vault already likely cost the USA the gold. Had she pushed on and continued to perform badly, it could have cost them a medal at all. Rather than letting the team down, she possibly helped them out. And with the explanation of the twisties, she possibly could have seriously injured herself as well. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to see her carried out on a stretcher. I get that it's annoying to see people fawning over her and talking about what a hero she is, but that's just what people do; they fawn over their favorite athletes, make everything dramatic, and put them on a pedestal. I don't think she's necessarily a "hero" but she isn't "not a hero" either. She just made the best decision she could at the time.
But as many said, it's not a "yes/no" situation. Did she do right for herself? Only she and her closest advisers can say. But what's good for HER may not be the best for the group - the team - nor may not be the best message for the rest of the world. That's the part that I think many don't acknowledge, and some of the support - SOME of it, not all of it - reflects that. Maybe next time the World Trade Center is bombed, the firefighters that arrive ought to be able to determine "I'm not mentally ready for this, maybe I should sit this one out and let my teammates do this. I could get hurt, after all!". Harsh, I know, but there is context for EVERYTHING, and the "moment" isn't the only one and isn't necessarily right.
Not really harsh, but kind of silly. For one, I already addressed the team aspect. It's quite possible she the result for the team would have been worse had she stayed in. There's no way for us to know. And the firefighter comparison doesn't quite work. If they don't do their job, lots of people die. (And even so - if said firefighter is in a really bad mental state, to where it's possible going in would put the rest of the team at more risk, then don't go). Simone Biles pulls out, and what happened? The alternate steps in and the team gets a silver medal, no one dies. And again, her staying in wasn't guaranteed gold - sounds like she likely already cost them that with the vault.
Just reinforcing my point that it's a subjective discussion and not up to us, as outsiders, to make our value judgement. Whether someone might die or not is not necessarily some magic determinative point. If I've trained my entire cognizant life for an event that may be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, is it for you or me to determine for them that is a "lesser" event and not of equal weight? I don't think so.
For those of us who aren't competing, we absolutely can say that people's lives are more important than a gold medal. There's no comparison; there's no slippery slope that your comment seemed to be implying by saying that if Biles can do what she did, it'll give first responders the wrong idea. I'm not suggesting we sit down with the athletes and tell them that their event is "lesser" than anything.
No, actually you cannot, not for anyone but yourself. One would HOPE that others would value life higher than an object, medal or achievement, but that's not for YOU to say FOR SOMEONE ELSE. When it comes to behavior, and particularly when it comes to risk of that behavior, there are far more examples in history of IRRATIONAL behavior than rational behavior.
Ask Dale Earnhardt (and, by the way, his son, if you've read his book about his battles with concussions) about whether his sport is worth his life.
And given what I've seen over the past 20 years - and the data that appears to be backing it up - I ABSOLUTELY think that over time what Biles and Osaka did may incorporate itself into the zeitgeist. We are in an almost crippling state of mass insecurity in our nation, contributing to the mass killings we've experienced over the last 20 years, the significant increase in suicides, the divisiveness that is corrupting our government, the racism that is flooding our society... don't for a second believe these are isolated, unrelated phenomena driven simply by those that "don't think like us". I've posted numerous articles that back this up, even though it runs afoul of the general tactical narrative we see from our politicians and those (too insecure) to account for the fact that someone might actually think different than we do.
I feel like we're having two different conversations. I'm not saying I get to tell an athlete how to feel about an event. If they think it's the most important thing in their life - that's fine. If they think it's worth risking their life - that's fine. Maybe their spouse/kids can have an opinion on the issue, but as a stranger it's certainly not for me to say. There is no disagreement there.
You made the sports/firefighter comparison which has nothing to do with telling an athlete how they should value life, especially their own. I am saying that in general, "we" (people in general) can say that human life is more important and that Biles stepping down and "us" being OK with it doesn't mean we then have to be OK with letting people die. (Now - that's an oversimplification because I certainly do think there are times when "we" should be OK with a firefighter sitting one out; my parents have some firefighter friends and while I don't know about the larger world, those guys seemed to expect that every so often someone would sit one out at the last minute for "not having their head right" and some of them had it happen to them).
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Dumb question (perhaps):
Why is the abbreviation that's being used for Russia "ROC"? When I first saw it (I think during a volleyball game), I thought it was "Republic of China," but none of the athletes on that team looked Chinese, and then the announcer kept referring to "the Russians." Shouldn't it be "RUS"?
Russian Olympic Committee. It's because Russia isn't allowed to compete as a country - they were banned from a few Olympics for doping issues. But individual athletes can still compete - they're just not considered to be representing Russia, it doesn't go to Russia's medal count or anything like that. But the individual athletes don't get punished by not be allowed to compete at all. I don't know how long the ban will last for - I think it was like that in the last Olympics as well.
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Dumb question (perhaps):
Why is the abbreviation that's being used for Russia "ROC"? When I first saw it (I think during a volleyball game), I thought it was "Republic of China," but none of the athletes on that team looked Chinese, and then the announcer kept referring to "the Russians." Shouldn't it be "RUS"?
ROC is Russian Olympic Committee; I'm not sure of the details, but this has something to do with the two-year doping ban levied against the country, Russia.
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Dumb question (perhaps):
Why is the abbreviation that's being used for Russia "ROC"? When I first saw it (I think during a volleyball game), I thought it was "Republic of China," but none of the athletes on that team looked Chinese, and then the announcer kept referring to "the Russians." Shouldn't it be "RUS"?
Russian Olympic Committee. It's because Russia isn't allowed to compete as a country - they were banned from a few Olympics for doping issues. But individual athletes can still compete - they're just not considered to be representing Russia, it doesn't go to Russia's medal count or anything like that. But the individual athletes don't get punished by not be allowed to compete at all. I don't know how long the ban will last for - I think it was like that in the last Olympics as well.
Thanks (although it seems like more form over function, but there you go).
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The last Olympics in 2018, the Russians were referred to as the Olympic Athletes from Russia.
Apparently, for this Olympics, here were the rules regarding Russian Athletes. "The Court ruled on 17 December 2020 to reduce the penalty that WADA had placed; instead of banning Russia from sporting events, the ruling allowed Russia to participate at the Olympics and other international events but for a period of two years, the team cannot use the Russian name, flag, or anthem and must present themselves as "Neutral Athlete" or "Neutral Team". The ruling does allow for team uniforms to display "Russia" on the uniform as well as the use of the Russian flag colours within the uniform's design, although the name should be up to equal predominance as the "Neutral Athlete/Team" designation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Olympic_Committee
On another note, I caught a women Rugby 7s game late last night between Japan and Kenya. My goodness. That game should be the game that should honor the Olympic spirit the most. There was no medals, nothing on the line for these teams other than pride, but you see both teams giving it everything they got and Japan really wanted that only win in the session and wasn't afraid to be physical to try to get there. Alas, it was not meant to be as Kenya scored in the final minutes of the game (although Japan really was pushing hard as they could to stop that).
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On another note, I caught a women Rugby 7s game
Every time I watch rugby (which isn't often), I seriously feel like they're just making it up as they go. They run the ball and then someone gets tackled but just gets right back up and starts running again. Then someone kicks the ball...seemingly randomly. Then they all stop for a minute and nothing seems to be happening and an official blows a whistle, and someone gives the ball to someone on the other team.... :biggrin:
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On another note, I caught a women Rugby 7s game
Every time I watch rugby (which isn't often), I seriously feel like they're just making it up as they go. They run the ball and then someone gets tackled but just gets right back up and starts running again. Then someone kicks the ball...seemingly randomly. Then they all stop for a minute and nothing seems to be happening and an official blows a whistle, and someone gives the ball to someone on the other team.... :biggrin:
I'm glad I'm not the only one :lol
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That's funny.
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I felt like I don't really have enough information to judge whether Simone Biles did the right thing - but I leaned on the side of thinking that she probably did. After reading the above and similar posts, it strengthens that feeling. I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened, so she could be lying, she could be exaggerating, she could have had a little tantrum because her vault didn't go well and decided to quit. But with no evidence to support that, I'm more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. From what I've read and from some of the commentary, her vault already likely cost the USA the gold. Had she pushed on and continued to perform badly, it could have cost them a medal at all. Rather than letting the team down, she possibly helped them out. And with the explanation of the twisties, she possibly could have seriously injured herself as well. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to see her carried out on a stretcher. I get that it's annoying to see people fawning over her and talking about what a hero she is, but that's just what people do; they fawn over their favorite athletes, make everything dramatic, and put them on a pedestal. I don't think she's necessarily a "hero" but she isn't "not a hero" either. She just made the best decision she could at the time.
I said I wouldn't say another word on this subject, but I just got back from vacation and your post got my attention.
Lethean, this is a great post and I pretty much agree with everything you said. If she quit, er..pulled herself out of the competition because she didn't feel up to it, then fine. I don't really have an issue with that. It is what it is, and she should've just stayed home.
My issue with the whole thing was that the reaction and as you said "fawning" over this being a mental health thing. I felt like it would be disingenuous to people that actually suffer from mental health crisis.
No, she is not a hero for this, and I agree that she's not "not a hero" either. She's just an athlete that for whatever reason pulled out of a competition. Let's not make anything more of it.
She is already a hero for her accomplishments.
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mental health still has stigma attached (they’re just lazy, should just get over it, suck it up, etc. ) that’s only now in the last few years starting to change, that’s what’s behind the reaction imo.
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I disagree. That stigma is only in elite athletes. General public it's lauded when you admit it.
He'll, I've admit it hear and had great support.
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mental health still has stigma attached (they’re just lazy, should just get over it, suck it up, etc. ) that’s only now in the last few years starting to change, that’s what’s behind the reaction imo.
I haven't said any of those things. And I don't think mental health stigma applies here. Just my opinion.
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So I saw this article..
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/olympics/simone-biles-out-for-vault-and-uneven-bars-event-finals/ar-AAMLymI?li=BB1a4woc
Which starts out with this..
"Simone Biles will skip the event finals for vault and uneven bars, still not ready to compete again after losing her sense of where she is in the air."
Wow that's scary. I can totally respect that. And legit for sure.
But this article cannot help themselves..
"USA Gymnastics said in a statement Saturday morning. "We remain in awe of Simone, who continues to handle this situation with courage and grace..."
This is the stuff that makes me gag.
OK.. now I'm done.
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I felt like I don't really have enough information to judge whether Simone Biles did the right thing - but I leaned on the side of thinking that she probably did. After reading the above and similar posts, it strengthens that feeling. I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened, so she could be lying, she could be exaggerating, she could have had a little tantrum because her vault didn't go well and decided to quit. But with no evidence to support that, I'm more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. From what I've read and from some of the commentary, her vault already likely cost the USA the gold. Had she pushed on and continued to perform badly, it could have cost them a medal at all. Rather than letting the team down, she possibly helped them out. And with the explanation of the twisties, she possibly could have seriously injured herself as well. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to see her carried out on a stretcher. I get that it's annoying to see people fawning over her and talking about what a hero she is, but that's just what people do; they fawn over their favorite athletes, make everything dramatic, and put them on a pedestal. I don't think she's necessarily a "hero" but she isn't "not a hero" either. She just made the best decision she could at the time.
I said I wouldn't say another word on this subject, but I just got back from vacation and your post got my attention.
Lethean, this is a great post and I pretty much agree with everything you said. If she quit, er..pulled herself out of the competition because she didn't feel up to it, then fine. I don't really have an issue with that. It is what it is, and she should've just stayed home.
My issue with the whole thing was that the reaction and as you said "fawning" over this being a mental health thing. I felt like it would be disingenuous to people that actually suffer from mental health crisis.
No, she is not a hero for this, and I agree that she's not "not a hero" either. She's just an athlete that for whatever reason pulled out of a competition. Let's not make anything more of it.
She is already a hero for her accomplishments.
Thanks! I think part of all of this, is that people don't quite understand what's going on (I include myself in this). Simone Biles said something about the "mental not being there" when she got to Tokyo and started warming up. And the twisties has been described as a mental issue, mental block, etc. I'm not sure if that makes this a "mental health" thing or a mental health crisis. I don't think Biles is saying that and I don't think she's at all trying to be disingenuous. But some hear mental and think mental health and run with it. I'm not saying they're even right or wrong. It's just one of those things where everyone has an opinion one way or the other, and most don't fully understand. But I will say that while the fawning can be really annoying, maybe it balances it out to know that there a lot of negative (and even vile) things being said about her as well.
So I saw this article..
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/olympics/simone-biles-out-for-vault-and-uneven-bars-event-finals/ar-AAMLymI?li=BB1a4woc
Which starts out with this..
"Simone Biles will skip the event finals for vault and uneven bars, still not ready to compete again after losing her sense of where she is in the air."
Wow that's scary. I can totally respect that. And legit for sure.
But this article cannot help themselves..
"USA Gymnastics said in a statement Saturday morning. "We remain in awe of Simone, who continues to handle this situation with courage and grace..."
This is the stuff that makes me gag.
OK.. now I'm done.
Well that's USA Gymnastics - I think it's to be expected that they're going to fawn over their own athlete. :)
I heard part of an interview in the car tonight, and I'm not sure who was speaking but it sounded like it was a gymnast who was another one of Larry Nassar's victims. And to this person, it sure sounded like Simone really is a hero. For not letting the Nassar thing get rug swept, but also for stepping down in these Olympics. And maybe she's projecting a little onto Simone, but just the idea that someone in Biles' position even *could* step down - that she wasn't able to be strong-armed into continuing against her better judgement, was inspiring to her. And I think we should acknowledge that - that with all of the history of gymnastics and fellow gymnasts and gymnastics fans who really follow the sport closely might indeed be inspired by her, and that's OK.
I do get the impulse to gag - I'm a fan of Roger Federer and think he's deserving of the praise he gets but even I want to gag sometimes and say "really guys? Could you tone it down a little?" Some are going to praise her, some are going to slag her, and I wish more could just respect her and then move on.
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I keep telling myself one more event and then I'm going to bed. Katie Ledecky up next - then maybe I really will go to bed. :)
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So I saw this article..
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/olympics/simone-biles-out-for-vault-and-uneven-bars-event-finals/ar-AAMLymI?li=BB1a4woc
Which starts out with this..
"Simone Biles will skip the event finals for vault and uneven bars, still not ready to compete again after losing her sense of where she is in the air."
Wow that's scary. I can totally respect that. And legit for sure.
Along with ...
Simone Biles said something about the "mental not being there" when she got to Tokyo and started warming up. And the twisties has been described as a mental issue, mental block, etc. I'm not sure if that makes this a "mental health" thing or a mental health crisis. I don't think Biles is saying that and I don't think she's at all trying to be disingenuous. But some hear mental and think mental health and run with it.
I'm quite late to the discussion, and haven't read the last 4 pages but I think of it like this ... a golfer gets the yips, and they roll a ball a couple inches by the hole; a hockey player gets the yips, and they can't put a puck on net. A gymnast gets the yips, and they can land on their head from 15ft in the air.
Much respect for Biles. Much contempt for the social media diatribe.
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Two medals now for Sweden (gold and silver) in the discus throw! Our first medals in these olympic games :metal
Can't wait for Armand Duplantis finals in the pole vault.
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I disagree. That stigma is only in elite athletes. General public it's lauded when you admit it.
He'll, I've admit it hear and had great support.
I agree that it's actually the opposite; I'm at the point now where I'd be a thrilled as punch if all my closest relatives and friends got a little help now and again. And I'm proud to say that all three of my step kids have at some time or another sought wellness (you'll notice I pick my words carefully here) advice at one time or another, to their benefit. My work offers I think ten sessions (which may or may not be enough, granted) to ANY employee covered under the health plan and for ANY reason. Love that.
My only real point in all of this is that we shouldn't move too far in the OTHER direction, where the standards for elite athletes are modified to reflect whatever situation we - as individuals - feel like we're in at the moment. This society is almost overwhelmed now by hyperbole, and keeping mental wellness as a regular and accepted part of our daily upkeep isn't served by that. Simeon Biles, like any great athlete that has come before her, should be judged AS AN ATHLETE for what goes on between the lines (on the field), not by what happens off the field. As TAC said, she's not a hero, but she's not NOT a hero. It's not all or nothing, yes or no.
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Can't wait for Armand Duplantis finals in the pole vault.
I can hear his trainer.."Armand, duplantis pole here and jump over other pole there.."
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Can't wait for Armand Duplantis finals in the pole vault.
I can hear his trainer.."Armand, duplantis pole here and jump over other pole there.."
:neverusethis:
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Trampoline is fun. I forgot about that event.
Sweden women's soccer is undefeated, they may take it all. I love the neon uniforms.
Handball is awesome of course. I watch the European tournaments every year.
It sucks that so many of these live events are too early to watch in America.
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It sucks that so many of these live events are too early to watch in America.
It's not going to get better next year with the Winter games in China. Hard to say if the schedule will get better for NA viewing when the games are in France in 2024. Can't watch any live events in the evening times, but you can in the late mornings/afternoons.
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It'd make for a hell of a rematch if it ends up USA V Sweden
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While women's beach volleyball is enjoyable, beach volleyball in general is not very interested. It seems like 90% of the time with the women and 95+% of the time with the men, it's serve-dig-set-spike-point. Do it again...over and over.... They actually get rallies with the indoor game, and the air that some of the men catch is insane.
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We were watching some of the men's indoor v-ball while on vacation. I would point out to my son that The Dudes were playing, because after EVERY F'N point, they all gather together and go "Hey dude," "Yo Dude" "Nice spike dude" "Good play dude" "high five dude".
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While women's beach volleyball is enjoyable, beach volleyball in general is not very interested. It seems like 90% of the time with the women and 95+% of the time with the men, it's serve-dig-set-spike-point. Do it again...over and over.... They actually get rallies with the indoor game, and the air that some of the men catch is insane.
Agreed. Because we North Americans don't ever see it other than the Olympics, indoor v-ball is one of my favorite events to watch.
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I am soooo happy, Venezuela has won 4 medals (1 gold WR and OR included, and 3 silver) for the very first time in our history.
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Italy won 2 gold medals in 10 minutes, jumping and 100 meters :metal first time ever than an italian wins the 100 mt!!!! :hefdaddy
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While women's beach volleyball is enjoyable, beach volleyball in general is not very interested. It seems like 90% of the time with the women and 95+% of the time with the men, it's serve-dig-set-spike-point. Do it again...over and over.... They actually get rallies with the indoor game, and the air that some of the men catch is insane.
Agreed. Because we North Americans don't ever see it other than the Olympics, indoor v-ball is one of my favorite events to watch.
Mine as well, but I like all of the volleyball. I do prefer the indoor, but the beach volleyball is fun to watch as well. I remember the Brazilian men's beach volleyball team being super impressive last time. And of course being from the US it was fun to watch Walsh/May win gold for so long.
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I think I posted this before, but I really want to find one of those manmade kayak/canoe facilities. I've been ocean kayaking and whitewater rafting. I always wanted to try whitewater kayaking, but it's never happened. One of these facilities would be freakin' awesome!
I also posed the following questions to my wife this morning while I was watching the horse jumping competition: what if the horse and rider are from different countries? And does the horse also get a medal?
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Italy won 2 gold medals in 10 minutes, jumping and 100 meters :metal first time ever than an italian wins the 100 mt!!!! :hefdaddy
So, we've got both the best runner and the best jumper on the planet, and they're not Mario and Luigi by Nintendo.
The most glorious ten minutes as a witness of physical activity in my lifetime, discounting sex.
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Italy won 2 gold medals in 10 minutes, jumping and 100 meters :metal first time ever than an italian wins the 100 mt!!!! :hefdaddy
So, we've got both the best runner and the best jumper on the planet, and they're not Mario and Luigi by Nintendo.
:lol
Congrats. The 100m is the marquee event of the Olympics.
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:lol
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Italy won 2 gold medals in 10 minutes, jumping and 100 meters :metal first time ever than an italian wins the 100 mt!!!! :hefdaddy
The two athletes agreeing to share the win and therefore collect a Gold medal each on the high jump was one of my favorite moments of this Olympics.
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While women's beach volleyball is enjoyable, beach volleyball in general is not very interested. It seems like 90% of the time with the women and 95+% of the time with the men, it's serve-dig-set-spike-point. Do it again...over and over.... They actually get rallies with the indoor game, and the air that some of the men catch is insane.
Agreed. Because we North Americans don't ever see it other than the Olympics, indoor v-ball is one of my favorite events to watch.
Me too. I watched the women last night. It was a great match; except for watching/listening to the announcer squirm; the Americans were up 14-9 and he kept saying this was a slam dunk, even when it got to 14-12! :)
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I am soooo happy, Venezuela has won 4 medals (1 gold WR and OR included, and 3 silver) for the very first time in our history.
I was watching that triple jump when it happened. She shattered the previous record in an extraordinary way. It was also amazing to see the Spaniard who got Silver jumping up in excitement when the WR record was broken. I think that kind of sportsmanship is what makes the Olympics great. Similar to what happened with the guy from Qatar and the Italian in jumping.
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-US Women's soccer team won't play for the gold. That was a shocker since they got beat by the Canadians.
-Love how the Italian jumper and the jumper from Qatar decided to share the gold medal.
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USA women’s soccer team losing to Canada may have been a shocker but That might have just made my Olympics.
And Simone Biles to compete on the balance beam tomorrow.
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I just watched the Sweden vs Australia soccer game. Olympic finals, here we come! :metal
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Italy won 2 gold medals in 10 minutes, jumping and 100 meters :metal first time ever than an italian wins the 100 mt!!!! :hefdaddy
The two athletes agreeing to share the win and therefore collect a Gold medal each on the high jump was one of my favorite moments of this Olympics.
That was awesome...as was the high jump guy congratulating the runner guy after the race. I have no idea what's live and what's not, and I think NBC is mostly doing a good job of concealing that.
While women's beach volleyball is enjoyable, beach volleyball in general is not very interested. It seems like 90% of the time with the women and 95+% of the time with the men, it's serve-dig-set-spike-point. Do it again...over and over.... They actually get rallies with the indoor game, and the air that some of the men catch is insane.
Agreed. Because we North Americans don't ever see it other than the Olympics, indoor v-ball is one of my favorite events to watch.
Me too. I watched the women last night. It was a great match; except for watching/listening to the announcer squirm; the Americans were up 14-9 and he kept saying this was a slam dunk, even when it got to 14-12! :)
The U.S. v. Italy game? That was a good one. I also found out that the U.S. libero went to the same high school that my kids attend(ed).
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USA women’s soccer team losing to Canada may have been a shocker but That might have just made my Olympics.
I imagine I feel like many people do when they see Tom Brady lose. They were so built up, with the commercials and all that, that even though I'm not a schadenfraude kind of guy, I can understand the emotion.
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Italy won 2 gold medals in 10 minutes, jumping and 100 meters :metal first time ever than an italian wins the 100 mt!!!! :hefdaddy
The two athletes agreeing to share the win and therefore collect a Gold medal each on the high jump was one of my favorite moments of this Olympics.
That was a fantastic moment! That's sportsmanship at its finest.
-Tof
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USA women’s soccer team losing to Canada may have been a shocker but That might have just made my Olympics.
I imagine I feel like many people do when they see Tom Brady lose. They were so built up, with the commercials and all that, that even though I'm not a schadenfraude kind of guy, I can understand the emotion.
Them losing to Canada is a shocker... Sweden on the other hand is the real deal, that team is crushing it.
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USA women’s soccer team losing to Canada may have been a shocker but That might have just made my Olympics.
I imagine I feel like many people do when they see Tom Brady lose. They were so built up, with the commercials and all that, that even though I'm not a schadenfraude kind of guy, I can understand the emotion.
Them losing to Canada is a shocker... Sweden on the other hand is the real deal, that team is crushing it.
Canada definitely got lucky, but it somewhat avenges the 2012 semi-final in London where luck was not on their side. I’m just happy they made the final. I haven’t watched any of Sweden’s matches this Olympics, but it sounds like they will be the heavy favourites.
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-Mexico does it again - lose in penalty kicks (soccer).
-Team USA basketball won vs Spain and seems like they played very good
-Biles gets a bronze in the balance beam
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Happy Biles was able to get up there again and preform, I was kind of worried she might spiral down the lack of self confidence wormhole.
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Can't wait for Armand Duplantis finals in the pole vault.
And it's a gold!
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Happy Biles was able to get up there again and preform, I was kind of worried she might spiral down the lack of self confidence wormhole.
Haven't watched the replay but apparently she chose a different technique to get off the beam (less complicated?) and that cost some points in the overall score.
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Happy Biles was able to get up there again and preform, I was kind of worried she might spiral down the lack of self confidence wormhole.
Haven't watched the replay but apparently she chose a different technique to get off the beam (less complicated?) and that cost some points in the overall score.
Wouldn't surprise me.. I'd gather her competing was more to 'get back on the horse' so to speak, than shooting for gold
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Did anyone watch the 400m hurdle final?
This was a marquee event in my mind going back to Edwin Moses at the 1984 Los Angeles games. He was SO MUCH better than everyone else and still holds the 11th best time in history.
Anyway...the two favorites in the final were a Norwegian guy (Karstein Warholm) and an American guy (Rai Benjamin). Warholm held the world record going in at 46.70. Benjamin's personal best (and, before the final, fourth best time in history) was 46.83. Warholm got off the blocks very fast and took an early lead. Because of the staggered start, it's sometimes hard to tell who's in the lead early, but you could see that Warholm was getting to each hurdle clearly before everyone else. After they came around the final turn, Benjamin was closing the gap, and the announcers were screaming that Warholm would run out of gas and be caught by Benjamin. In the end, Benjamin broke the world record by MORE THAN A HALF SECOND (46.17). Unfortunately for him, Warholm shifted into another gear after the final hurdle and won going away with a ridiculous time of 45.94!
What's even more crazy about this is that 45.94 is less than 3 seconds off the world record for the 400m dash -- i.e., running the same distance but without hurdles!
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Did anyone watch the 400m hurdle final?
This was a marquee event in my mind going back to Edwin Moses at the 1984 Los Angeles games. He was SO MUCH better than everyone else and still holds the 11th best time in history.
Anyway...the two favorites in the final were a Norwegian guy (Karstein Warholm) and an American guy (Rai Benjamin). Warholm held the world record going in at 46.70. Benjamin's personal best (and, before the final, fourth best time in history) was 46.83. Warholm got off the blocks very fast and took an early lead. Because of the staggered start, it's sometimes hard to tell who's in the lead early, but you could see that Warholm was getting to each hurdle clearly before everyone else. After they came around the final turn, Benjamin was closing the gap, and the announcers were screaming that Warholm would run out of gas and be caught by Benjamin. In the end, Benjamin broke the world record by MORE THAN A HALF SECOND (46.17). Unfortunately for him, Warholm shifted into another gear after the final hurdle and won going away with a ridiculous time of 45.94!
What's even more crazy about this is that 45.94 is less than 3 seconds off the world record for the 400m dash -- i.e., running the same distance but without hurdles!
I cannot even FATHOM breaking the world record and by that much.... and still losing the race.
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That was a two man race, basically. Warholm managed to find that little extra when Benjamin was closing in. Benjamin didn't get off to a great start, but he closed well, it's just that Warholm found his 6th gear.
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I cannot even FATHOM breaking the world record and by that much.... and still losing the race.
Right?! The announcers were all screaming about how Benjamin was closing and then....
That was a two man race, basically. Warholm managed to find that little extra when Benjamin was closing in. Benjamin didn't get off to a great start, but he closed well, it's just that Warholm found his 6th gear.
Exactly. I don't follow track and field at all (except for the Olympics), but I've never seen a guy lead such a fast start and then accelerate down the stretch when it looks like the #2 guy is going to catch him.
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I saw the men's race last night and it was awesome, and then the same thing happened in the women's 400m hurdles today. Both gold and silver broke the existing world record. Pretty exciting stuff.
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I saw the men's race last night and it was awesome, and then the same thing happened in the women's 400m hurdles today. Both gold and silver broke the existing world record. Pretty exciting stuff.
Agreed. McLaughlin and Muhammad are amazing. So much poise by McLaughlin to be able to track Muhammad down in those last 50 meters.
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A glimpse into the 2032 Games: :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GnBLV5xcdY
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A glimpse into the 2032 Games: :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GnBLV5xcdY
That was so good (and for some reason, the Aussie announcers made it better)! I would totally watch that. Reminded me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1ZYTQToX9A
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Aussie announcers always make stuff better...Ozzy Man proves that time and time again... his call of Katelyn Ohashi's floor routine in pure gold.
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A glimpse into the 2032 Games: :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GnBLV5xcdY
I would watch that :lol
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USA women’s soccer team losing to Canada may have been a shocker but That might have just made my Olympics.
I imagine I feel like many people do when they see Tom Brady lose. They were so built up, with the commercials and all that, that even though I'm not a schadenfraude kind of guy, I can understand the emotion.
Them losing to Canada is a shocker... Sweden on the other hand is the real deal, that team is crushing it.
Penalty kicks is a crappy way to win, but we'll take it!!!
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Italy won also 20 KM march and 4x100, we're the fastest in the world :metal :metal :metal
National record of medals won in our entire Games history :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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USA women’s soccer team losing to Canada may have been a shocker but That might have just made my Olympics.
I imagine I feel like many people do when they see Tom Brady lose. They were so built up, with the commercials and all that, that even though I'm not a schadenfraude kind of guy, I can understand the emotion.
Them losing to Canada is a shocker... Sweden on the other hand is the real deal, that team is crushing it.
Penalty kicks is a crappy way to win, but we'll take it!!!
Yes we will! :tup
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USA basketball for the Gold!!!! Let's do it! :metal
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Italy won also 20 KM march and 4x100, we're the fastest in the world :metal :metal :metal
National record of medals won in our entire Games history :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
I saw that relay - good stuff!
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Italy won also 20 KM march and 4x100, we're the fastest in the world :metal :metal :metal
National record of medals won in our entire Games history :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
I saw that relay - good stuff!
The way the Italian anchor tracked down GB to win by 1/100th was incredible. Same with DeGrasse coming from a very distant 5th to overtake Jamaica and China for Bronze. That was a thrilling 36 seconds.
*awaits someone to quote The Office*
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That was a thrilling 36 seconds.
*awaits someone to quote The Office*
That's what she said ;D
Anyway, poor England, they haven't still recovered from the Wembleydoom of Euro 2020 and now they lose for one split moment of a second again against Italy :D
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I just amazed that the IOC was able to pull it off in the first place. I would have bet money that they would cancel midway through the tourney...
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I just amazed that the IOC was able to pull it off in the first place. I would have bet money that they would cancel midway through the tourney...
I'm amazed there were no significant delays, reschedules, or outright cancellation of events. Kudos to all the planners organizers and everyone involved.
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http://twitter.com/i/status/1424305458320392201 (http://twitter.com/i/status/1424305458320392201)
Piers Morgan is an annoying prick (objectively speaking).
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Some of the more notable (and often more relatively obscure) things that made a big impression on me.....about these Olympic games in Tokyo (primarily beyond what has already been mentioned in this thread):
- NBC's coverage. Certainly there were some hiccups along the way, but they managed to pull off a wonderful presentation....with multiple channels, and excellent camera work...in a trying, pandemic altered, multi-day event. Also, the connecting to the families so they could congratulate their athletes was a really nice touch.
- So along those lines.....Caleb Dressel, USA men's swimming. Not only his excellence in his events, but his emotions during the esp. the one interview. His entire family/friends watch party was connected and he just completely lost it. Genuine emotion. He couldn't actually speak it was so overwhelming for him. Makes you stop and appreciate what these athletes go through and their level of commitment.
- THE MOST DOMINANT PERFORMANCE. And I mean not by total medals or even consistency throughout multiple Olympics. The 14 year old diver from China....Quan Hongchan. OMG....did you see this girl? She can't be much over 4 and a half feet tall. She pulls a Nadia Comaneci (if you don't recognize THAT name, look it up!) with THREE PERFECT 10's (EVERY JUDGE) in the 10 meter platform. She comes from a poor farming family.....and her mother needs long term medical care after a bad accident. To see her focus on those dives, and then her elation after she realized she won the gold medal was INCREDIBLE. She nailed ever single dive STRAIGHT into the water EVERY TIME. Virtually NO SPLASH.....and not because she's so small. It's kind of a thing for China to do this....seemingly every one of their female divers is a young teen, and then you won't see them again in the next Olympics. I would not usually watch diving, but in the Olympics it's amazing how much you are drawn to the spirit of the competition. And this girl was just FIERCE.
- Simone Biles getting a medal after doubting her own confidence. The entire situation has been bandied about pro and con ad nauseum....so refraining from re-opening that discussion. But I'm proud of her for coming back like that and getting a bronze medal. Simultaneously, it's the most disappointing (not in her, but in what could have been). If she was on her game, she would have dominated similar to the diver.
- Another thing I would not normally watch. Synchronized (artistic) swimming (team). The ROC won the gold because of their precision/timing. But the ENERGY of the Chinese team was phenomenal. Holy crap. The music was BOSS and intense too. They won the silver, but I thought their routine was more compelling. Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6jEtbwPzVg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6jEtbwPzVg)
- Speaking of BOSS. And not a big fan of his (but don't want to go down THAT rabbit hole here!), but Bruce Springsteen's daughter. Equestrian competition. Won a medal. The boss's daughter gets to be the boss at the dinner table there.
- Allyson Felix. All time most decorated USA track athlete. FIFTH Olympics. 11 medals now, passing Carl Lewis. 35 years old and new mother. Incredible.
- USA heavyweight wrestler Gable Stevenson. Beat multi time Georgian (country not state!) world champion wrestler Geno Petriashvili in literally the last SECOND of the match. He was trailing 8-5 with about 30 seconds left to go....and was able to secure two takedowns, including the last with essentially ZERO time on the clock. Dramatic victory!
- Water polo. Just in general. Sounds a bit prissy on the surface (no pun intended), but it's a bad ass sport. You want to talk about tough? Them and the rugby players get my vote there! The things that go on during those matches....unconscionable.
- All the world records broken, seemingly across every competition. Seemed like perhaps more than any other Olympics?
- All of the FIRSTS. So many countries/athletes breaking through that normally do not medal! Wow! Again, more than any other Olympics?
Yes, I watched a lot of the higher profile sports too. I'm a big basketball fan, so I did enjoy watching the men's team bounce back after some early adversity and winning gold against a tough French team. Though, yes....they are expected to win, so not as awesome as some of the other things mentioned. The American ladies took care of business there as well. Katie Ladecky.....awesome, after losing to the Australian, Titmus, earlier. USA women's volleyball won first gold medal ever. That was very cool.
But by and large it was a lot of those less covered sports during the time away from the Olympics that garnered most of my attention. I think it's because you don't see them, and it's DIFFERENT when the athletes in those sports are representing their country in this way. Despite COVID and all of the political wranglings going on around the world.....athletes united and showed their spirit. Gets me every time.
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I was watching the Chinese sync team this morning, just amazing, and that music was so fucking dope.
The Chinese diver was the show stealer though, perfection personified.
Another I enjoyed was the women's karate kumite final, the Bulgarian women trying to hold it together to bow to the mat after winning gold was too much.
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I was watching the Chinese sync team this morning, just amazing, and that music was so fucking dope.
The Chinese diver was the show stealer though, perfection personified.
Another I enjoyed was the women's karate kumite final, the Bulgarian women trying to hold it together to bow to the mat after winning gold was too much.
:tup
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That was a thrilling 36 seconds.
*awaits someone to quote The Office*
Anyway, poor England, they haven't still recovered from the Wembleydoom of Euro 2020 and now they lose for one split moment of a second again against Italy :D
Yeah but it turns out we are awesome at BMX (who knew...) ;D
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I agree that NBC's coverage was good, and the easy ability to flip between big NBC, USA, NBCSN and the Olympic Channel made it easy to find something I wanted to watch.
As a result, for probably the first time ever, I didn't see a single second of gymnastics. At one point, I flipped to water ballet (still can't believe they call that an Olympic "sport") and immediately switched to another network.
I watched a lot of volleyball - mostly women's. The gold medal game was pretty rad. Not particularly close, but I'm definitely more of a fan of indoor volleyball than I was before. As I think I posted above, the beach volleyball was kind of boring. Also, the libero on the U.S. women's team went to the high school my kids attend. Hoping she makes an appearance with her medal.
Also watched more water polo than ever. That is, indeed, a brutal sport, and I'm amazed there aren't more bloody/broken noses.
I wasn't able to catch as much track and field as I would have liked (especially the field events). I don't think I saw any javelin or discuss or triple jump, and I only saw a small bit of high jump and pole vault.
I also thought it odd that they kept the "Tokyo 2020" label.
Only six months until the winter Olympics!
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This was the first time I can remember where I had little to zero interest in the Olympics. I don't know if it had to do with no crowds so the excitement wasn't there or that I just don't particularly care about the majority of the summer events.....but when I did watch I was bored to death. The only excitement I gleaned from these games were a few of the swimming races but outside of that the rest didn't captivate me at all.
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^^ You suppose the time zone differences in live coverage made a difference? It's rough to watch when an event that's going on a 6:00 PM their time is like 2:00 AM in California. I mean I could get away with that back in 2014 where I was watching hockey at 2:00 AM at the Winter Games and had a relaxed schedule in community college. Not so much nowadays with a regular job.
Brazil games was excellent when it comes to timing of watching coverage.
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The ratings took a nose dive too. Something like 45% down. This article correctly points to the negativity as a part of that (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/05/business/media/nbc-olympics-tv-ratings.html), but limits that negativity to that of the pandemic. Most of the mainstream press has avoided any other rationales for the decline, though Jay Busbee (I think accurately) allows that politics accounts for some of the decline (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/olympics/olympics-ratings-slide-points-toward-new-tv-viewing-reality/ar-AAN3fHY).
It shouldn't surprise anyone but as you move from left to right in terms of media sources, the reasons become more varied and nuanced than just "pandemic".
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While the ratings were not great at all on the Teli, I thought I heard a stat. that there were more than 8 million streaming viewers over something like 6 streaming platforms. Those numbers have to be taken into account. I heard this on NPR at lunch.
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^^ You suppose the time zone differences in live coverage made a difference? It's rough to watch when an event that's going on a 6:00 PM their time is like 2:00 AM in California. I mean I could get away with that back in 2014 where I was watching hockey at 2:00 AM at the Winter Games and had a relaxed schedule in community college. Not so much nowadays with a regular job.
Brazil games was excellent when it comes to timing of watching coverage.
The time zone difference caused me to not watch as much. I'd wake up to a ton of news alerts on my phone telling me who won or medaled, so why even bother turning it on? We caught some of the weekend daytime broadcasts that were live, but that was it.
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While the ratings were not great at all on the Teli, I thought I heard a stat. that there were more than 8 million streaming viewers over something like 6 streaming platforms. Those numbers have to be taken into account. I heard this on NPR at lunch.
I heard that segment too, and it makes perfect sense when you think about it. Television networks would purposely not run prime time shows during the Olympics because of the competition for eyes. Your choices were either a limited number of commercial filled re-runs or the Olympics. People used to watch the Olympics because of lack of options, not because it was what they found entertaining.
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While the ratings were not great at all on the Teli, I thought I heard a stat. that there were more than 8 million streaming viewers over something like 6 streaming platforms. Those numbers have to be taken into account. I heard this on NPR at lunch.
I heard that segment too, and it makes perfect sense when you think about it. Television networks would purposely not run prime time shows during the Olympics because of the competition for eyes. Your choices were either a limited number of commercial filled re-runs or the Olympics. People used to watch the Olympics because of lack of options, not because it was what they found entertaining.
I'm not sure about this streaming thing. As much as I like sports, it makes more sense for me to keep DirectTV rather than sign up for 20 different streaming channels.
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While the ratings were not great at all on the Teli, I thought I heard a stat. that there were more than 8 million streaming viewers over something like 6 streaming platforms. Those numbers have to be taken into account. I heard this on NPR at lunch.
I heard that segment too, and it makes perfect sense when you think about it. Television networks would purposely not run prime time shows during the Olympics because of the competition for eyes. Your choices were either a limited number of commercial filled re-runs or the Olympics. People used to watch the Olympics because of lack of options, not because it was what they found entertaining.
I'm not sure about this streaming thing. As much as I like sports, it makes more sense for me to keep DirectTV rather than sign up for 20 different streaming channels.
I'm going on almost 7 years of streaming only and have no complaints. Netflix, Prime, HBO, and Discovery+ are all I need. I could realistically do without Prime as well, but I have that primarily for music streaming and package delivery.
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I'm not sure about this streaming thing. As much as I like sports, it makes more sense for me to keep DirectTV rather than sign up for 20 different streaming channels.
If you try to replicate having cable TV by cord cutting/streaming, it will cast you more money. Sports is the big roadblock for cord cutting - but there are options that will get you the majority of what you might want to watch.
I have Youtube TV ($65) for standard network/cable tv/sports, Netflix ($14) and Disney+ (Prepaid for 3 years, equalling $3-ish/mo). Sometimes I'll pick up Hulu for a month or two, or maybe HBO. Do I miss out on some things? Yes. Am I worried about that? No.
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^^ You suppose the time zone differences in live coverage made a difference? It's rough to watch when an event that's going on a 6:00 PM their time is like 2:00 AM in California. I mean I could get away with that back in 2014 where I was watching hockey at 2:00 AM at the Winter Games and had a relaxed schedule in community college. Not so much nowadays with a regular job.
Brazil games was excellent when it comes to timing of watching coverage.
Could have very well been a good reason also. The fact that by the time I could watch anything it wasn't live made it that much less interesting as well.
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I'm not sure about this streaming thing. As much as I like sports, it makes more sense for me to keep DirectTV rather than sign up for 20 different streaming channels.
If you try to replicate having cable TV by cord cutting/streaming, it will cast you more money. Sports is the big roadblock for cord cutting - but there are options that will get you the majority of what you might want to watch.
I have Youtube TV ($65) for standard network/cable tv/sports, Netflix ($14) and Disney+ (Prepaid for 3 years, equalling $3-ish/mo). Sometimes I'll pick up Hulu for a month or two, or maybe HBO. Do I miss out on some things? Yes. Am I worried about that? No.
I'm happy with my streaming... got Netflix, Prime, CBS, D+, Hulu (free with Spotify) and HBO (free with phone), so maybe 40/mo-ish