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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: T-ski on April 22, 2021, 12:47:07 PM
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Inspired by Kev’s Purple Rain thread.. what do you consider to be the last “great” album released?
Any genre goes.
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Inspired by Kev’s Purple Rain thread.. what do you consider to be the last “great” album released?
Any genre goes.
Folklore by Taylor Swift.
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Haken - Vector & Virus
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metal machine music by lou reed
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Arch/Matheos - Winter Ethereal
I don't think anything hooked me as much as this since 2019.
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Random Access Memories - Daft Punk
I felt like it bridged a lot of gaps between musical genres and those genres' fans. I feel like there's something for everyone on that album.
Of course I'm trying to be as objective as possible and not pick anything prog (because as a mostly niche genre, it doesn't have the wide reach a truly "great album" should have, like the ones in the other thread about Best Selling Albums, most of which would be considered great albums, even if you don't listen to those specific artists).
But if I had to pick a personal favorite, and a prog one at that, I'd probably pick Transatlantic's The Whirlwind. I don't think I'll ever get tired of that one.
-Marc.
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Sepultura’s Quadra from January 2020. The best metal album I’ve heard in many years from a band who many thought peaked in the mid 90’s.
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Fates Warning - Theories of Flight
That was the last album that completely blew me away
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Not sure how many folk-rock fans are around here, but the last Lumineers album (III) blew my mind, and has been on constant rotation since last year.
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I honestly don’t know how to answer this question.
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In terms of recent release date I'm thinking maybe Wilderun's latest, or the Vennart album from last year. Digging the new GYBE too.
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Halen- Virus
IQ- Resistance
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Digging the new GYBE too.
That’s my pick.
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Random Access Memories - Daft Punk
I felt like it bridged a lot of gaps between musical genres and those genres' fans. I feel like there's something for everyone on that album.
-Marc.
I follow this as I've said the last stone cold banger track that had mass appeal was "Get Lucky." Even though its been 8 years now, which is sad.
If I picked a personal, last record that I found to be perfect, flawless, and still holds up:
2015's Small Leaks Sink Ships - Face Yourself and Remove Your Sandals.
Just by default, it's the last album that I've rated at a perfect 5-stars.
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King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard - L.W.
Latest album from a band I was already quite into, but this is easily their best album yet IMO.
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I honestly don’t know how to answer this question.
Yeah, same.
"Great" album as in...? an album I think it's great? an album that will become a classic? an album that since its release, nothing else came around that was even better? an album that if it was released in another era it would have entered the list of best selling albums of all time we're currently discussing in another topic?
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I honestly don’t know how to answer this question.
Yeah, same.
"Great" album as in...? an album I think it's great? an album that will become a classic? an album that since its release, nothing else came around that was even better? an album that if it was released in another era it would have entered the list of best selling albums of all time we're currently discussing in another topic?
Yeah, all this.
Great albums come out all the time.
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I've clearly answered this differently than others did. There are plenty of records I really, really love - the new Transatlantic is a "great" album. But I answered more existentially; "great" as in "Thriller" or "Back In Black". Iconic, transcendent of genre, appealing cross-generationally. There are records being named that are in no way shape, or form "iconic", "transcendent of genre" or "cross-generationally appealing".
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Somehow these threads keep leading me to the same answer.
Billie Eilish-When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go?
This collection of songs completely changed my view on pop music. The music Billie and her brother Finneas create is nothing short of amazing. They deserve all of the accolades they’ve been receiving.
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I gotta think,,,, alot... not sure I can process the question LOL
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I've clearly answered this differently than others did. There are plenty of records I really, really love - the new Transatlantic is a "great" album. But I answered more existentially; "great" as in "Thriller" or "Back In Black". Iconic, transcendent of genre, appealing cross-generationally. There are records being named that are in no way shape, or form "iconic", "transcendent of genre" or "cross-generationally appealing".
I totally know what you mean. I think Evermore is great as well, but Folklore was the first, and will likely be viewed as the more iconic and transcendent album over time.
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I'll go with the new LTE! Killer album, and one where I don't feel the need to skip any tracks (unlike the first 2 LTE albums or any DT albums for that matter). Maybe it's that new car smell that's clouding my objectivity, but I don't think so. Before that, I'd go with The Breath of Life version of The Absolute Universe (yes, I prefer it over Forevermore).
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Inspired by Kev’s Purple Rain thread.. what do you consider to be the last “great” album released?
Any genre goes.
Folklore by Taylor Swift.
1989. It ruled the world for awhile
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Covet - "Technicolor" would be my pick. 2020 album so not too long ago.
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Clockwork Angels :coolio
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I honestly don’t know how to answer this question.
Yeah, same.
"Great" album as in...? an album I think it's great? an album that will become a classic? an album that since its release, nothing else came around that was even better? an album that if it was released in another era it would have entered the list of best selling albums of all time we're currently discussing in another topic?
Yeah, all this.
Great albums come out all the time.
Truer words have not been spoken in this thread.
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I'll go with the new LTE! Killer album, and one where I don't feel the need to skip any tracks (unlike the first 2 LTE albums or any DT albums for that matter). Maybe it's that new car smell that's clouding my objectivity, but I don't think so. Before that, I'd go with The Breath of Life version of The Absolute Universe (yes, I prefer it over Forevermore).
Inclined to agree with this too.
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I honestly don’t know how to answer this question.
Yeah, same.
"Great" album as in...? an album I think it's great? an album that will become a classic? an album that since its release, nothing else came around that was even better? an album that if it was released in another era it would have entered the list of best selling albums of all time we're currently discussing in another topic?
Yeah, all this.
Great albums come out all the time.
Truer words have not been spoken in this thread.
But albums for the ages do not. That's the real difference in some of the answers here.
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Sorry I wasn’t specific enough in my original post.
Basically what I’m looking for is any album that in 20-25 years will be considered among the best albums ever released.
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Sorry I wasn’t specific enough in my original post.
Basically what I’m looking for is any album that in 20-25 years will be considered among the best albums ever released.
That eliminates about 94% of the answers here! (I kid! I kid!) :) :) :)
I'm sticking with folklore. If not, then 1989.
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I thought 1988 was a good year too!
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I don't care about the general pop culture as much as I care about other music, but I'm rarely surprised when the big albums of the day wind up being things that no one really cares much about in the future, while stuff that seems overlooked at the time often generates a surprising amount of life. I've having fun googling "2001 albums". Here's the top 10 albums I got from "albumoftheyear.com", and what I think of them now.
1. The Strokes - This is It. Could not care less. As for others, I have no idea. They were down with Bernie, so maybe they have some fans who like them for that.
2. Radiohead - Amnesiac. I'd say I still like this, and so do a lot of people.
3. Daft Punk - Discover. Not my cup of tea, but arguably more popular now.
4. Bjork - Vespertine. Love it. Still a classic, too.
5. The Microphones - Glow pt 2. Who? What?
6. Gorillaz - Gorillaz. Thought it as OK then and still feel the same about it now. Not really sure how Damon Albarn has managed to wiggle into relevancy for like 3 decades but I'm not against it.
7. System of a Down - Toxicity. Loved in then. Don't care about it now. Seems like it's still loved in the metal community.
8. Muse - Origin of Symmetry. Never cared for it. Never really got Muse beyond a few tracks. I wonder how popular they are now?
9. Jay Z - The Blueprint. Some nice songs. But Overrated then, and rated just right now (I think most people consider it overrated these days, too). But I guess it was kind of like an artistic awakening for Jay, with more soul beats and introspective songs and stuff.
10. Tool - Lateralus. Loved it then. No feeling toward it whatsoever now. Most metal fans people would probably say it's still great.
I tried doing the same thing for 2020, but honestly, I haven't heard any more than a third of what came up.
Sorry I wasn’t specific enough in my original post.
Basically what I’m looking for is any album that in 20-25 years will be considered among the best albums ever released.
On this note, I would have NEVER imagined that LTE1/2 and those early Transatlantic records would wind up being so adored that people would still be hyped about those projects 20ish years later. I like them at the time too, but never imagined they'd become such fixtures in terms of how people think about the artists involved. TA especially is pretty much bigger than any of the main projects of the guys involved at this point.
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On this note, I would have NEVER imagined that LTE1/2 and those early Transatlantic records would wind up being so adored that people would still be hyped about those projects 20ish years later. I like them at the time too, but never imagined they'd become such fixtures in terms of how people think about the artists involved. TA especially is pretty much bigger than any of the main projects of the guys involved at this point.
For me, both of those albums expanded my interest in prog beyond the prog-metal sphere significantly (TA more than LTE, but LTE pushed some boundaries in terms of fusion and non-heavy stuff as well). I’d go so far as to say the first two Transatlantic albums are possibly the most important prog albums since the 70s in terms revitalizing the genre and pushing it to a bigger audience (even though the individual members were already starting to revitalize things in their own respective bands before that).
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Sorry I wasn’t specific enough in my original post.
Basically what I’m looking for is any album that in 20-25 years will be considered among the best albums ever released.
For that you have to have...
Huge commercial success.
Huge critical success.
A couple of huge singles that will likely still be being played years later.
An album that is accessable to as many people as possible, including music snobs.
A unique sound that others copied.
A story behind it.
So I'm going for Amy Winehouse - Back to Black.
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On this note, I would have NEVER imagined that LTE1/2 and those early Transatlantic records would wind up being so adored that people would still be hyped about those projects 20ish years later. I like them at the time too, but never imagined they'd become such fixtures in terms of how people think about the artists involved. TA especially is pretty much bigger than any of the main projects of the guys involved at this point.
For me, both of those albums expanded my interest in prog beyond the prog-metal sphere significantly (TA more than LTE, but LTE pushed some boundaries in terms of fusion and non-heavy stuff as well). I’d go so far as to say the first two Transatlantic albums are possibly the most important prog albums since the 70s in terms revitalizing the genre and pushing it to a bigger audience (even though the individual members were already starting to revitalize things in their own respective bands before that).
But are either of those albums broad enough to qualify here? My kid knows (and likes) Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours". She knows "Back In Black" (and likes the single, "You Shook Me..."). She has no idea of LTE or TA. She MIGHT get it if I said "TA is a band with the guy you went to his songwriting seminar", or maybe "he's the Jesus guy" (I say that with no disrespect whatsoever).
I don't make it a habit of listening to mid-20's female pop-stars writing songs from their diaries. But folklore (or 1989) are THAT GOOD. There's a connection there for this 50+ year old twice-married father of four. I can RELATE to "Wildest Dreams", maybe even MORE now that I'm older. folklore too. That to me is what makes a great - transcendent - album.
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Sorry I wasn’t specific enough in my original post.
Basically what I’m looking for is any album that in 20-25 years will be considered among the best albums ever released.
For that you have to have...
Huge commercial success.
Huge critical success.
A couple of huge singles that will likely still be being played years later.
An album that is accessable to as many people as possible, including music snobs.
A unique sound that others copied.
A story behind it.
So I'm going for Amy Winehouse - Back to Black.
I'm not really a fan, and not really knowledgeable about her career other than the tabloid stuff, but I know that album, and know the impact it's had. That's a really good answer.
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On this note, I would have NEVER imagined that LTE1/2 and those early Transatlantic records would wind up being so adored that people would still be hyped about those projects 20ish years later. I like them at the time too, but never imagined they'd become such fixtures in terms of how people think about the artists involved. TA especially is pretty much bigger than any of the main projects of the guys involved at this point.
For me, both of those albums expanded my interest in prog beyond the prog-metal sphere significantly (TA more than LTE, but LTE pushed some boundaries in terms of fusion and non-heavy stuff as well). I’d go so far as to say the first two Transatlantic albums are possibly the most important prog albums since the 70s in terms revitalizing the genre and pushing it to a bigger audience (even though the individual members were already starting to revitalize things in their own respective bands before that).
But are either of those albums broad enough to qualify here? My kid knows (and likes) Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours". She knows "Back In Black" (and likes the single, "You Shook Me..."). She has no idea of LTE or TA. She MIGHT get it if I said "TA is a band with the guy you went to his songwriting seminar", or maybe "he's the Jesus guy" (I say that with no disrespect whatsoever).
I don't make it a habit of listening to mid-20's female pop-stars writing songs from their diaries. But folklore (or 1989) are THAT GOOD. There's a connection there for this 50+ year old twice-married father of four. I can RELATE to "Wildest Dreams", maybe even MORE now that I'm older. folklore too. That to me is what makes a great - transcendent - album.
No, I wasn’t so much saying those are transcendent albums, just remarking that those albums did have a very big impact on the prog genre (and on many here in particular). I do think there is a lot of value in that though. Along the spectrum of musical accomplishments, just being able to make an album that thousands of people love is great in and of itself, but making an album that revitalizes an entire genre is a really cool thing.
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On this note, I would have NEVER imagined that LTE1/2 and those early Transatlantic records would wind up being so adored that people would still be hyped about those projects 20ish years later. I like them at the time too, but never imagined they'd become such fixtures in terms of how people think about the artists involved. TA especially is pretty much bigger than any of the main projects of the guys involved at this point.
For me, both of those albums expanded my interest in prog beyond the prog-metal sphere significantly (TA more than LTE, but LTE pushed some boundaries in terms of fusion and non-heavy stuff as well). I’d go so far as to say the first two Transatlantic albums are possibly the most important prog albums since the 70s in terms revitalizing the genre and pushing it to a bigger audience (even though the individual members were already starting to revitalize things in their own respective bands before that).
But are either of those albums broad enough to qualify here? My kid knows (and likes) Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours". She knows "Back In Black" (and likes the single, "You Shook Me..."). She has no idea of LTE or TA. She MIGHT get it if I said "TA is a band with the guy you went to his songwriting seminar", or maybe "he's the Jesus guy" (I say that with no disrespect whatsoever).
I don't make it a habit of listening to mid-20's female pop-stars writing songs from their diaries. But folklore (or 1989) are THAT GOOD. There's a connection there for this 50+ year old twice-married father of four. I can RELATE to "Wildest Dreams", maybe even MORE now that I'm older. folklore too. That to me is what makes a great - transcendent - album.
I may have misunderstood the topic and was just going with what I'd find to be personally great in 20 years. To me that's not as important because it's more like the Grammy's and stuff - if you personally don't care, then why does it matter how "great" something is considered on the wide scale?
There's a lot of stuff I've loved over the years that will probably still be considered great by someone's daughter or grandkids in 20 years. I can imagine my son asking me about Ariana, Bruno, Drake, Kendrick, Jay Z, Kanye, Taylor, Lil Nas X and so many others in a decade while I get to play spokesperson for the music I liked, but did not love, probably not very different from the feeling my own Dad must have had when I started asking him about Rush and Yes (neither of whom he actually loves all that much). Then there's stuff he actually likes (The Boss, Neil Young, John Prine, and so on) and, to be quite honest, I acknowledge that the stuff was considered great then, and still considered great now, but I just don't care about it at all. Some other albums that have been mentioned here as great, like Back in Black, get a big yawn from me. Even if I don't dispute of them deserving their reputation.
I think I'll still think "To Pimp a Butterfly" is rad in 2035 and I'm pretty sure a lot of people will agree. I'm pretty sure I'll still like dredg- el cielo even better, and no one will care. Then there's stuff like Vai and Satch. Must have had to be part of a niche 20 years ago to like it, and that same niche still care today. The answers I chose are more like that. The general public will never care about Petrucci or Yvette Young, but as long as people are playing guitar and still getting into music around that, someone will still consider it great.
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I honestly don’t know how to answer this question.
Yeah, same.
"Great" album as in...? an album I think it's great? an album that will become a classic? an album that since its release, nothing else came around that was even better? an album that if it was released in another era it would have entered the list of best selling albums of all time we're currently discussing in another topic?
Yeah, all this.
Great albums come out all the time.
Truer words have not been spoken in this thread.
But albums for the ages do not. That's the real difference in some of the answers here.
Eh, an album can only be identified as "for the ages" once ages have passed. And it's difficult to know what will be seen as a masterpiece in 20+ years. I don't hear anything in Folklore that makes me think it will necessarily have that kind of status.
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So if "still considered broadly appealing 20-25 years later" is the test, we should be looking at albums from the late 90s and early 00s as the first batch of "new" certifiably great albums.
But I think 20-25 years is a bit too long (and also, feels a bit too convenient for "men of a certain age" to discount all the music that came out after they left high school). And yeah, no one knows which albums from 2020-2021 are still going to be considered great in 2045. But I also think that's kind of an extreme way of looking at it. I think generally 5-10 years is enough time to tell if an album still has general appeal or whether it (and the artist) was just a flash in the pan. Once someone's been around for 10 years making relevant music, like it or not, they're probably here to stay.
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King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard - L.W.
Latest album from a band I was already quite into, but this is easily their best album yet IMO.
That's interesting because as someone who has liked them for a few years I find it their weakest. Aside from maybe the final track it's such a slog to get through and if someone told me these were all B-sides that had been laying around for years I would not be surprised. :lol
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I think the difficulty for some is separating from the personal. I can't and won't speak for T-Ski, but for me, the question is really "If there's a movie, and in the scene someone is holding a copy of "Born In The USA", is a majority or at least a significant minority going to make the connection even if they aren't a Bruce fan". Or if someone dies, do they go "hey, I don't know his music, is that the "Purple Rain" guy"? Or you step into an elevator and there's musak version of "And I Will Always Love You". Or when you talk to a young British kid in a NWOBHM band talking about their new album and they say "We wanted to make our version of "Thriller"", like Joe Elliott (might have been Phil Collen) did back in '87.
I can see someone saying "yeah, this is our "folklore"". Or if she is unfortunately hit by a train, someone COULD say "she really hit her high note with "folklore". I can see the back shot of her pony tail being held in the hands of some kid in a movie in 2030.
Haken's Virus doesn't fill any of those squares, even a little bit. No offense.
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Before I read that post I would not have been able to name a single song on "Folklore" and if you gave me that title and said "whose album is this?" I would have had no clue that it's Taylor Swift without looking it up on Google
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I do think it’s hard to judge albums based on cultural impact or transcendence or whatever. People just aren’t exposed to the same things these days. Maybe youth culture is still pretty monolithic, but I know my kids (who are still too young to really be into music) don’t have any exposure to anything popular the way I did at their age.
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I wouldn't know what specific album to pinpoint, but in the "here to stay" category, I guess definitively Lady Gaga has a place. Maybe her universally known songs are already written and in future albums she'll never have a widely known song as Bad Romance, but among the last decade or so, she definitively made a mark.
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Before I read that post I would not have been able to name a single song on "Folklore" and if you gave me that title and said "whose album is this?" I would have had no clue that it's Taylor Swift without looking it up on Google
HAHA, but you're old. :) :) :)
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I like Taylor. I don't know that "folklore" is all that. Certainly she will go down as one of this generation's greats, but I wouldn't be shocked if it's more for everything up until and including 1989. I feel the same way about Beyonce's "Lemonade". Surely Beyonce's place in pop culture history is secure. And certainly "Lemonade" was the most hyped thing ever when it came out. But now that time has passed, do people still care about it more than they do "Single Ladies"? Taylor's the same for me. "folkore" is alright. But she's already got half a dozen songs which will be stuck in the pop culture pysche permanently, and I'm not sure any of them are from "folklore".
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Sorry I wasn’t specific enough in my original post.
Basically what I’m looking for is any album that in 20-25 years will be considered among the best albums ever released.
For that you have to have...
Huge commercial success.
Huge critical success.
A couple of huge singles that will likely still be being played years later.
An album that is accessable to as many people as possible, including music snobs.
A unique sound that others copied.
A story behind it.
So I'm going for Amy Winehouse - Back to Black.
This is.. a really good pick for this thread. Wow!
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Prequelle by Ghost. So many good albums have been released since, but Prequelle was just great. Absolutely great.
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I like Taylor. I don't know that "folklore" is all that. Certainly she will go down as one of this generation's greats, but I wouldn't be shocked if it's more for everything up until and including 1989. I feel the same way about Beyonce's "Lemonade". Surely Beyonce's place in pop culture history is secure. And certainly "Lemonade" was the most hyped thing ever when it came out. But now that time has passed, do people still care about it more than they do "Single Ladies"? Taylor's the same for me. "folkore" is alright. But she's already got half a dozen songs which will be stuck in the pop culture pysche permanently, and I'm not sure any of them are from "folklore".
I won't argue that; I've frequently called "1989" the best pop record of the decade. I just figured "folklore" since it was so different than what came before for her AND had the cultural element of being her "COVID" record.
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Before I read that post I would not have been able to name a single song on "Folklore" and if you gave me that title and said "whose album is this?" I would have had no clue that it's Taylor Swift without looking it up on Google
HAHA, but you're old. :) :) :)
Not only that, but the number of people in the world who cannot name a single song from LTE3 or The Absolute Universe is much higher than the number of people who cannot name a single song from Folklore. The lyric video for Cardigan (Folklore's lone number 1 hit) has over 86 million views, but I am sure no one out there knows it. :lol :lol
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The thing is, if the conversation parameters only permit stuff with wide cultural and cross generation appeal, it gets pretty boring. Because of course there's not much to talk about, maybe a dozen artists or so at any given point these days who have that level of fame, the likes of which most people here probably only like a handful. Along those lines, I do agree with the below:
I do think it’s hard to judge albums based on cultural impact or transcendence or whatever. People just aren’t exposed to the same things these days. Maybe youth culture is still pretty monolithic, but I know my kids (who are still too young to really be into music) don’t have any exposure to anything popular the way I did at their age.
It seems the record industry at large has really started to lose its grip on the culture, to this point where OF COURSE there are the big names (Taylors, Beyonces, etc., who are only getting bigger) but then the next level down from that is far more niche. Right before the crash the industry would honor N*Sync and Celine Dion while also giving some nods to the alt scene - Pumpkins, Radiohead, and so on.
These days, that "next level down alt scene" is pretty much gone. There is the big top 40, and that's it. Everything below that is more independent, and further splintered from the mainstream than it ever was before. It still exists, but far more fractionally, where a lot of the best alternative music this generatoin has had to offer is so far from the public psyche that I'll feel lucky if a few of my grandkids even know about it at all.
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I think the difficulty for some is separating from the personal. I can't and won't speak for T-Ski, but for me, the question is really "If there's a movie, and in the scene someone is holding a copy of "Born In The USA", is a majority or at least a significant minority going to make the connection even if they aren't a Bruce fan". Or if someone dies, do they go "hey, I don't know his music, is that the "Purple Rain" guy"? Or you step into an elevator and there's musak version of "And I Will Always Love You". Or when you talk to a young British kid in a NWOBHM band talking about their new album and they say "We wanted to make our version of "Thriller"", like Joe Elliott (might have been Phil Collen) did back in '87.
I can see someone saying "yeah, this is our "folklore"". Or if she is unfortunately hit by a train, someone COULD say "she really hit her high note with "folklore". I can see the back shot of her pony tail being held in the hands of some kid in a movie in 2030.
Haken's Virus doesn't fill any of those squares, even a little bit. No offense.
Certainly no offense taken, Haken play in a niche genre (prog metal) and so would never have that widespread mainstream appeal and awareness. Dream Theater are the biggest band in the prog metal world and none of their albums wouldn fit in any of those examples either.
I just don't think that's what this thread is about.
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I don't really like Haken, and didn't even listen to Virus. But they must have done something great (relatively speaking) at some point, because 10 years have gone by and dammit, they're still here :biggrin:
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20 or 25 years?
2001:
Top Selling Albums from 2001:
https://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/2001/top-billboard-200-albums
#1 Selling Albums from 2001:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Billboard_200_number-one_albums_of_2001
1 The Beatles
J. Lo Jennifer Lopez
Hot Shot Shaggy
Everyday Dave Matthews Band
Until the End of Time 2Pac Amaru
Now That's What I Call Music! 6 Various Artists
All for You Janet Jackson
Survivor Destiny's Child
Lateralus Tool
Break the Cycle Staind
Take Off Your Pants and Jacket Blink-182
Devil's Night D12
Songs in A Minor Alicia Keys J
Celebrity NSYNC
Now That's What I Call Music! 7 Various Artists
Now Maxwell
Aaliyah Aaliyah
Toxicity System of a Down
The Blueprint Jay-Z
Pain Is Love Ja Rule
God Bless America: For the Benefit of the Twin Towers Fund Various Artists
The Great Depression DMX
Invincible Michael Jackson
Britney Britney Spears
Scarecrow Garth Brooks
Weathered Creed
Top Selling Album (in the USA) from 2001
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_by_year_in_the_United_States
Hybrid Theory Linkin Park
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1996:
Top 200 Selling Albums of 1996
https://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/1996/top-billboard-200-albums
Number 1 Albums from 1996:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Billboard_200_number-one_albums_of_1996
Daydream Mariah Carey
Waiting to Exhale Whitney Houston
Jagged Little Pill Alanis Morissette
All Eyez on Me 2Pac Death Row
Anthology 2 The Beatles
Evil Empire Rage Against the Machine
Fairweather Johnson Hootie & the Blowfish
The Score Fugees
Load Metallica
It Was Written Nas
Beats, Rhymes and Life A Tribe Called Quest
No Code Pearl Jam
Home Again New Edition
Falling into You Celine Dion
From the Muddy Banks of the Wishkah Nirvana
Falling into You Celine Dion
Recovering the Satellites Counting Crows
Best Of – Volume I Van Halen
Anthology 3 The Beatles
The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory
Tha Doggfather Snoop Doggy Dogg
Razorblade Suitcase Bush
Tragic Kingdom No Doubt
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Just using those 2 years as a sample, at least in terms of Billboard CHARTS and SALES, I really don't think there's any new album (exluding Compilations and live albums) that remotely that would be considered a "great" album (or all-time classic) that has crossed demographics and frequently heard in pop-culture today. Maybe Jagged Little Pill in some ways, but that's debateable.
I think only time really tells, but if there is one reasonable observation I and many others have made, popular music has become much less accessible (which sounds like a contradiction in terms) every decade. Not only about the SONGS but the ALBUMS.
If you look at history, each decade since the 90's, music and albums included, have become more niche and had a more fragmented appeal. So much so, Popular music and Popular albums have become less and less recognizable.
Downloading, Streaming, YouTube and the way music is consumed has changed things so dramatically, that has had a lot to do with it. But I also think the BUSINESS of music has played a big part of that. Making music and releasing albums have become more about how to make as much money, or how to avoid losing money, unless you are in a small fraction of artists on a major label that pays for it.
If you think about it, more songs and albums reached more people (and probably just had more creativity) through MTV/Videos and listening to the Radio. Even magazines and going to the Record/Music stores. But now, music consumers and album buyers have their tastes catered to specific algorythms and whatever their friends have on their Spotify Playlists or Tik Tok videos. They don't get exposed to many songs and albums they may have a few decades ago.
In other words, a "great" album may be out there, with many great tunes, but it will never reach the % of people it would have a generation or 2 ago because of the way music is consumed now.
I also think part of it is creativity and how there just may not be enough left to do, given Rock and Pop music as an artform is not new anymore. I.e. most of what can be done, has been done. New music does come out that is well written and creative, but it's nearly impossible to not find it to sound like or be compared to something that came before it.
A good example of that is Billboard and stuff like the WatchMojo Decade Lists for NEW songs and NEW albums (excluding compilations, and live albums). Each Decade from the 90's on, the lists become less and less recognizable (if not just worse), and certainly less iconic at this point. I think that is a product on how the most popular and highest selling music since the 90's has reached less people (and in a lot of ways because it has become that much worse).
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I think the difficulty for some is separating from the personal. I can't and won't speak for T-Ski, but for me, the question is really "If there's a movie, and in the scene someone is holding a copy of "Born In The USA", is a majority or at least a significant minority going to make the connection even if they aren't a Bruce fan". Or if someone dies, do they go "hey, I don't know his music, is that the "Purple Rain" guy"? Or you step into an elevator and there's musak version of "And I Will Always Love You". Or when you talk to a young British kid in a NWOBHM band talking about their new album and they say "We wanted to make our version of "Thriller"", like Joe Elliott (might have been Phil Collen) did back in '87.
I can see someone saying "yeah, this is our "folklore"". Or if she is unfortunately hit by a train, someone COULD say "she really hit her high note with "folklore". I can see the back shot of her pony tail being held in the hands of some kid in a movie in 2030.
Haken's Virus doesn't fill any of those squares, even a little bit. No offense.
None taken, but honestly, I don't care about any of this.
"Great" albums don't have to be huge successes anymore. Actually, I think it's very rare nowadays that they are. The business today is just not about new, revolutionary, big masterpieces anymore. It's about things people already know, so they'll buy it again.
Compared to big selling albums from the 70s and 80s you'd call "classics" or "great" albums (like Sgt. Pepper, Seeds Of Love, OK Computer, Led Zeppelin IV etc), albums like Scenes From A Memory, Spirit Of Eden or The Death Defying Unicorn weren't big successes, but I'd consider them all "great albums". Even if they won't be referenced in mainstream movies. Albums are about the music they contain, not about the resonance they cause.
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"Great" albums don't have to be huge successes anymore. Actually, I think it's very rare nowadays that they are. The business today is just not about new, revolutionary, big masterpieces anymore. It's about things people already know, so they'll buy it again.
Totally agree with this, and I wonder if that is why we see the same artists constantly overhyped for their new albums even as they become "old hat". The industry has increasingly little of enduring value to fall back on. One rung down from the "top shelf" artists (like Ariana Grande, Beyonce, Beiber, Jay Z, Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, etc) there is a rotating carousel of also-rans and then a whole lot of flashes in the pan, followed by nothing. The industry still delivers those top-tier icons, but the depth and volume is gone, the culture is just dim and lacks the overall vibrancy that it had even in the 90s. There's great stuff out there, but it will never be enshrined the way things were before the record industry collapsed. Even when what seems like an authentic culture on the outskirts gets some mainstream recognition, it feels less like an organic thing and more like a corporate acquisition (i.e., Taylor working Aaron Dressner for folklore; Disney getting Werner Herzon signed on for a few episodes of "The Mandolorian").
So, what will the mainstream music industry still tell people to care about in 2040? I have no idea, but I'd imagine unless there is some drastic reversal in trends the answer is "even less than they try and get people to care about today".
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All the points about Haken - they're still here, it's a good album, I like it (I don't, personally, but someone else said that) are all valid, but don't go to the original question. The guy who posted the thread made it clear that HE meant: "Basically what I’m looking for is any album that in 20-25 years will be considered among the best albums ever released." I think he WAS asking about "the resonance they cause" (I love that phrase, by the way. Very well put.)
The Abbey Roads. The Dark Sides Of The Moons. The Born In The USAs. Look, there are plenty of bands that I like that are around for a long time, there are plenty of records I absolutely adore, but I can face facts: they are NEVER, EVER going to be among the consensus of "greatest albums of all time". They're just not. I don't know if that's "fair" or "just" or not, but it just is. It's not personal, and it doesn't impact my enjoyment of them in any way shape or form, because I like what I like.
Marillion; going on a 40 year career and going strong. To me, their best album (and a top five for me all time) is Clutching At Straws. Everything I think of when I think of Marillion is on that CD. Having said that, it's not in the same league as Sgt. Pepper. It's just not.
I do think there's some merit to the answer "there is none". That's a legit point that I think has to be addressed. But on no level is the answer "Haken".
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I think the counter argument to that is, at least from my perspective, the industry does not support anywhere near the diversity it once did, nor does it have anywhere near as much patience with its commodities.
As good as those artists and albums are, they wouldn't have the notoriety they do today if the labels behind them didn't continue to invest in those artists and their work across decades and even, as you mentioned, generations.
I think people are right to say that the greatness still exists. What does not exist, is the value.
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I think the counter argument to that is, at least from my perspective, the industry does not support anywhere near the diversity it once did, nor does it have anywhere near as much patience with its commodities.
As good as those artists and albums are, they wouldn't have the notoriety they do today if the labels behind them didn't continue to invest in those artists and their work across decades and even, as you mentioned, generations.
I think people are right to say that the greatness still exists. What does not exist, is the value.
Can't argue that. I'm old enough to still have that "the cream rises to the top" mentality, though. I think if there is an album that merits cross-generational, cross-genre appreciation, it will find it's way to the surface. Could be wrong on that, though. :)
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Even when what seems like an authentic culture on the outskirts gets some mainstream recognition, it feels less like an organic thing and more like a corporate acquisition (i.e., Taylor working Aaron Dressner for folklore; Disney getting Werner Herzon signed on for a few episodes of "The Mandolorian").
But the thing is, the collaboration between Taylor Swift and Aaron Dessner WAS organic. They met after a concert like 6-7 years ago, and then last spring, shortly after the shutdown, she texted him and asked him if he'd be interested in writing some songs together. And the result was Folklore. And their writing chemistry was so good that they kept writing, which is why we then got Evermore as well.
I think what works greatly in the favor of Folklore in this discussion is the number of non-fans who like it. Many great albums are ones where even people who aren't normally a fan of that particular artist can point to that album and go, "Damn, this is a good album." I have lost track at how many people I have seen say, "I am not really a Taylor Swift fan, but this is great stuff," or something to that effect.
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Even when what seems like an authentic culture on the outskirts gets some mainstream recognition, it feels less like an organic thing and more like a corporate acquisition (i.e., Taylor working Aaron Dressner for folklore; Disney getting Werner Herzon signed on for a few episodes of "The Mandolorian").
But the thing is, the collaboration between Taylor Swift and Aaron Dessner WAS organic. They met after a concert like 6-7 years ago, and then last spring, shortly after the shutdown, she texted him and asked him if he'd be interested in writing some songs together. And the result was Folklore. And their writing chemistry was so good that they kept writing, which is why we then got Evermore as well.
I think what works greatly in the favor of Folklore in this discussion is the number of non-fans who like it. Many great albums are ones where even people who aren't normally a fan of that particular artist can point to that album and go, "Damn, this is a good album." I have lost track at how many people I have seen say, "I am not really a Taylor Swift fan, but this is great stuff," or something to that effect.
Well, I look at here as a microcosm; after 1989, there were one or two people that pimped it (I was one; I still think that's a phenomenal record; her "Joshua Tree" maybe) but the general consensus here in this prog metal site (and MP.com, and another site I was at for a while) was "whatevs. She still lips synchs and has 1000 writers for each song.". folklore was the one that sort of also said, "you might not like all of it, but she's really writing these, really singing them, and really means them." This is her "adult" record in a way. Her "Scenes From A Memory". Her "2112". Where she said "my way, or highway, this is who/what I am." And that resonates with people, I think.
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I think you know what I mean, though. That specific example might not work, but it's not essential to the general point I'm making. The mainstream media knows that the culture is out there, the parts it wants can be purchased and plugged into the apparatus without being made a core part of it. Why put a bunch of money behind a new indie band when you can just make your flagship artist go indie?
I think the counter argument to that is, at least from my perspective, the industry does not support anywhere near the diversity it once did, nor does it have anywhere near as much patience with its commodities.
As good as those artists and albums are, they wouldn't have the notoriety they do today if the labels behind them didn't continue to invest in those artists and their work across decades and even, as you mentioned, generations.
I think people are right to say that the greatness still exists. What does not exist, is the value.
Can't argue that. I'm old enough to still have that "the cream rises to the top" mentality, though. I think if there is an album that merits cross-generational, cross-genre appreciation, it will find it's way to the surface. Could be wrong on that, though. :)
I think it will, too. But where is the top? And is "the top" as big as it used to be before?
When I started listening to Dream Theater, there were still a lot of deniers about Petrucci out there. It was not uncommon to hear people claim that middling guitar players from other heavy metal bands were far superior to him, if not technically, then at least in any other way. This is part of why he wrote "As I Am", after a poor interaction with the guitarist from queensryche who is trying to show him tips in a condescending way. A guy who had been to "the top" before was denying JP recognition, because his version of success was totally different.
Fast forward 20 years, and no one would deny JP. Not only that, but no one would think twice about mentioning him in the same category as Vai and Satriani. He is undeniably one of the guitar greats, even though the way he has experienced being at the top is totally different than it would have been for him had he tasted success even a decade earlier.
That's why it's hard for me to evaluate greatness based on whether I think the albums of today can endure the way the albums of 20 or 30 years ago did. I just can't imagine that far in the future being anything like that far in the past. And when I see people mention lemonades and 1989s, I agree with him them that while those albums are great. But it also feels a little lacking and imagination, like "yeah of course those ones will get it".
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I do think 1989 is probably a strong candidate for last great album. It was huge, you’d hear stuff from it everywhere (in stores, at ballgames, etc.) even if you didn’t listen to radio or seek it out. My wife loved it. I eventually loved most of it. It’s the most pop culture thing I’ve personally been fond of this millennium.
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I do think 1989 is probably a strong candidate for last great album. It was huge, you’d hear stuff from it everywhere (in stores, at ballgames, etc.) even if you didn’t listen to radio or seek it out. My wife loved it. I eventually loved most of it. It’s the most pop culture thing I’ve personally been fond of this millennium.
I don't remember having ever acknowledged the album's existance. Up until I noticed the thread in this section and wondered "why the hell are people talking about Taylor Swift" and discovered Folklore, Taylor Swift was a name I barely acknowledged, I just knew she existed. Never heard a song knowing it was hers (unlike Lady Gaga), never knew 1989 was a TS album and that it was huge.
I mean, I spent a whole summer not really knowing what song Despacito was, but at least I knew that Despacito was a big hit. Just like I knew of the existance of Beyoncè, that her pregnant pic broke the internet and that she single handedly changed the release date of new album for the industry. And that's still more than I could say about Taylor Swift, who I probably couldn't recognize out of a lineup before I discovered Folklore.
I'm not disputing that 1989 was huge, but I never, ever got the faintest notion about any Taylor Swift song or album, while I can probably mention 10 Lady Gaga songs that are not on the only album I've heard in full, the more laid back Joanne.
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I do think 1989 is probably a strong candidate for last great album. It was huge, you’d hear stuff from it everywhere (in stores, at ballgames, etc.) even if you didn’t listen to radio or seek it out. My wife loved it. I eventually loved most of it. It’s the most pop culture thing I’ve personally been fond of this millennium.
I don't remember having ever acknowledged the album's existance. Up until I noticed the thread in this section and wondered "why the hell are people talking about Taylor Swift" and discovered Folklore, Taylor Swift was a name I barely acknowledged, I just knew she existed. Never heard a song knowing it was hers (unlike Lady Gaga), never knew 1989 was a TS album and that it was huge.
I mean, I spent a whole summer not really knowing what song Despacito was, but at least I knew that Despacito was a big hit. Just like I knew of the existance of Beyoncè, that her pregnant pic broke the internet and that she single handedly changed the release date of new album for the industry. And that's still more than I could say about Taylor Swift, who I probably couldn't recognize out of a lineup before I discovered Folklore.
I'm not disputing that 1989 was huge, but I never, ever got the faintest notion about any Taylor Swift song or album, while I can probably mention 10 Lady Gaga songs that are not on the only album I've heard in full, the more laid back Joanne.
What’s funny is that I’ve had no trouble avoiding Lady Gaga. Not sure what song Despacito is, though I may have heard it and just don’t know the title. I’m not saying my experience is definitive, of course, just pointing out that 1989 is a mainstream album that somehow managed to catch my attention where most don’t.
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Even when what seems like an authentic culture on the outskirts gets some mainstream recognition, it feels less like an organic thing and more like a corporate acquisition (i.e., Taylor working Aaron Dressner for folklore; Disney getting Werner Herzon signed on for a few episodes of "The Mandolorian").
But the thing is, the collaboration between Taylor Swift and Aaron Dessner WAS organic. They met after a concert like 6-7 years ago, and then last spring, shortly after the shutdown, she texted him and asked him if he'd be interested in writing some songs together. And the result was Folklore. And their writing chemistry was so good that they kept writing, which is why we then got Evermore as well.
I think what works greatly in the favor of Folklore in this discussion is the number of non-fans who like it. Many great albums are ones where even people who aren't normally a fan of that particular artist can point to that album and go, "Damn, this is a good album." I have lost track at how many people I have seen say, "I am not really a Taylor Swift fan, but this is great stuff," or something to that effect.
I hope at least some Taylor fans who have enjoyed her recent two album will take a little time to go and check out The National's (Dessner's band) output, because to me they have been one of the consistantly brilliant bands of this millenium - The four album run of 'Alligator', 'Boxer', 'High Violet**' and 'Trouble Will Find You' is just plain stellar.
**One of my top 5 albums of all time.
I've not heard 1989 besides the singles - and unfortunately two of them are really annoying for me in 'Blank Space' and 'Bad Blood'.
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The Beatles- Let it Be
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I think you know what I mean, though. That specific example might not work, but it's not essential to the general point I'm making. The mainstream media knows that the culture is out there, the parts it wants can be purchased and plugged into the apparatus without being made a core part of it. Why put a bunch of money behind a new indie band when you can just make your flagship artist go indie?
I think the counter argument to that is, at least from my perspective, the industry does not support anywhere near the diversity it once did, nor does it have anywhere near as much patience with its commodities.
As good as those artists and albums are, they wouldn't have the notoriety they do today if the labels behind them didn't continue to invest in those artists and their work across decades and even, as you mentioned, generations.
I think people are right to say that the greatness still exists. What does not exist, is the value.
Can't argue that. I'm old enough to still have that "the cream rises to the top" mentality, though. I think if there is an album that merits cross-generational, cross-genre appreciation, it will find it's way to the surface. Could be wrong on that, though. :)
I think it will, too. But where is the top? And is "the top" as big as it used to be before?
When I started listening to Dream Theater, there were still a lot of deniers about Petrucci out there. It was not uncommon to hear people claim that middling guitar players from other heavy metal bands were far superior to him, if not technically, then at least in any other way. This is part of why he wrote "As I Am", after a poor interaction with the guitarist from queensryche who is trying to show him tips in a condescending way. A guy who had been to "the top" before was denying JP recognition, because his version of success was totally different.
Fast forward 20 years, and no one would deny JP. Not only that, but no one would think twice about mentioning him in the same category as Vai and Satriani. He is undeniably one of the guitar greats, even though the way he has experienced being at the top is totally different than it would have been for him had he tasted success even a decade earlier.
That's why it's hard for me to evaluate greatness based on whether I think the albums of today can endure the way the albums of 20 or 30 years ago did. I just can't imagine that far in the future being anything like that far in the past. And when I see people mention lemonades and 1989s, I agree with him them that while those albums are great. But it also feels a little lacking and imagination, like "yeah of course those ones will get it".
I know you don't like when I push back, but I promise, I'm not arguing with you, just shooting the shit. Picture a conversation in a bar over a Dr. Pepper or a Tito's.
I think there's a lot right about what you said, but two things I'd point out: I don't get any sense that Taylor is "her label making their flagship go indie". She's not re-recording her entire catalogue because the label told her to. She's in rarified air now, where she CAN call her own shots (whether she does or not is another story). I made the comparison and I meant it: she's not as old as Bruce, but she's in that category. Remember when Neil Young did the Blue Note thing (or was it Trans?) and Geffen sued him for not being "Neil Young enough" (when in fact, he was EXACTLY being Neil Fucking Young; that's what you get!)? Bruce puts out what we wants when we wants, with whom he wants. Devils & Dust, Western Stars, Wrecking Ball... he follows his muse, and we just sort of hang on for the ride. I think Taylor is at that point now.
The other is Petrucci. Now, I'm in a tough spot, because I love the guy's playing, and from what little I know of him, I like HIM too. He's everything you could hope for in a band you're a fan of. But he's not widely regarded in the same light as Vai and Satriani. There's a line that we're talking about here. You have to know Dream Theater and know this genre to know who John Petrucci is. The derision you refer to (and I remember it) was amongst the cognicenti, not the casual fan. He is one of the great guitar players, but he's not a guitar LEGEND, like Jeff Beck or a Jimmy Page or an Eric Clapton. He doesn't have anything that is of a level that causes him to be cross-generational, cross-genre. He has no Woodstock. He has no "Tears In Heaven" (a song that because of it's tabloid connections, reached well beyond his traditional fanbase). He doesn't have that association with a Rod Stewart. I'm not sure that Vai and Satriani do, for that matter. I don't know. There's no ARGUMENT here, I'm just searching for a distinction that I can feel but can't put into words.
And so you know where I'm coming from, when John Lennon died, my mom ran down to Woolworth's and bought be the red and blue Capital compilations by the Beatles, because she knew I liked music (Kiss!) and kind of thought I needed to know who that guy was (this was before social media and stuff; I don't know if she thought we'd forget Lennon?). It went beyond just the simple quality of their work. It went to something bigger than that.
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Personally, I think it's a lot simpler than a lot of what we're discussing.
I think the biggest factor is simply that, 25+ years ago, there was much much less music that was created and made widely available.
If you look at the "Retro Albums of the Year" thread, you'll see incredibly similar top 5-10 albums from everyone, regardless of age. I completely expect that as the years move forward we're going to have more and more variety between people's lists. So much content is available these days that almost nothing is iconic or widely-loved in a completely mainstream sense, but rather it happens within certain genres and niches.
Most of my favourite music is from the last 15-20 years but I can't see any of it having the status of things like Dark Side of the Moon, Abbey Road, etc. because of these social and technological trends. People are talking about Taylor Swift a lot in this thread, and I like Folklore well enough but I can't see how it would be considered one of the best albums ever even now, let alone in 20 years.
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I think the last album created that will some day be considered one of the greats is in this group.
Radiohead - Kid A
Norah Jones - Come Away With Me
Amy Winehouse - Back to Black
Bruce Springsteen - The Rising
Eminem - The Marshall Mathers LP
Jay-Z - The Blueprint
Green Day - American Idiot
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I think the last album created that will some day be considered one of the greats is in this group.
Radiohead - Kid A
Norah Jones - Come Away With Me
Amy Winehouse - Back to Black
Bruce Springsteen - The Rising
Eminem - The Marshall Mathers LP
Jay-Z - The Blueprint
Green Day - American Idiot
I LOVE that you included The Rising. I thought about putting that out there, and didn't, but I wholeheartedly agree.
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I know you don't like when I push back, but I promise, I'm not arguing with you, just shooting the shit. Picture a conversation in a bar over a Dr. Pepper or a Tito's.
I don't mind pushback. What I don't like is having to entangle what seems like a reduction or misrepresentation of something i said, which isn't happening. Anyway...
In the end, I think we agree that there are very few artists/albums that hold up as "great" the way great artists have endured traditionally. So, there are two ways of looking at it. The first way is to focus on why the industry has changed, and then come up with some rationale as to why there are so few groundbreaking albums in the mainstream. We could do that for months, but whatever the reason may be, if not a combination of factors, a cursory glance of Youtube tells me it's not due to any fundamental lack of talent.
The other way, and the way that I prefer, is simply to say that times have changed, and while the mainstream record industry still has its place, the way that great artists and their works is valued going forward is changing. I understand the mental tendency to maybe exclude this stuff, but to me at least, doing so would be far too depressing.
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I think the last album created that will some day be considered one of the greats is in this group.
Radiohead - Kid A
Norah Jones - Come Away With Me
Amy Winehouse - Back to Black
Bruce Springsteen - The Rising
Eminem - The Marshall Mathers LP
Jay-Z - The Blueprint
Green Day - American Idiot
I LOVE that you included The Rising. I thought about putting that out there, and didn't, but I wholeheartedly agree.
I have my moments.
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I think once you go below "masterpiece that cannot be denied by anyone if you like any type of music" everything else is subjective to taste or submission to what is considered "trendy" and commercially viable music today or within the last 20-30 years. Also you have to define "album" as something to be listened to straight through, as opposed to something like "Thriller" which may or may not be cherry picked tunes.
I think there's only one of these types of albums every 20 years, give or take, since WWII. I considered all genres, took into account quality, commercial success, impact on the music world, the appeal among different groups of people, the context of the era it was created in, and it's continued appeal long after its original release date. I narrowed it down to these 4 albums.
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue (1959)
Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon (1973)
Metallica - The Black Album (1991)
Daft Punk - Random Access Memories (2013)
Sad to say, the Daft Punk pick was the easiest one to decide on because the bar is so low these days in regards to what is both popular AND good music most people can dig. Lots of people don't like Green Day, Radiohead, Eminem (or any hip-hop), Springsteen, Billy Joel, and pop artists are throwaway if we're talking decades and decades here. Kids don't like/know/care about Madonna and Mariah Carey already, and Britney is hanging on by a thread.
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I think once you go below "masterpiece that cannot be denied by anyone if you like any type of music" everything else is subjective to taste or submission to what is considered "trendy" and commercially viable music today or within the last 20-30 years. Also you have to define "album" as something to be listened to straight through, as opposed to something like "Thriller" which may or may not be cherry picked tunes.
I think there's only one of these types of albums every 20 years, give or take, since WWII. I considered all genres, took into account quality, commercial success, impact on the music world, the appeal among different groups of people, the context of the era it was created in, and it's continued appeal long after its original release date. I narrowed it down to these 4 albums.
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue (1959)
Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon (1973)
Metallica - The Black Album (1991)
Daft Punk - Random Access Memories (2013)
Sad to say, the Daft Punk pick was the easiest one to decide on because the bar is so low these days in regards to what is both popular AND good music most people can dig. Lots of people don't like Green Day, Radiohead, Eminem (or any hip-hop), Springsteen, Billy Joel, and pop artists are throwaway if we're talking decades and decades here. Kids don't like/know/care about Madonna and Mariah Carey already, and Britney is hanging on by a thread.
That’s the second mention of Daft Punk in this thread. I will confess I never heard them until it was announced they were splitting up (had heard the name but didn’t even know what kind of music it was). I can see how that kind of thing they do might have been a big part of the music world over the last 20 years, but they flew completely under my radar.
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Also you have to define "album" as something to be listened to straight through, as opposed to something like "Thriller" which may or may not be cherry picked tunes.
What?
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I think once you go below "masterpiece that cannot be denied by anyone if you like any type of music" everything else is subjective to taste or submission to what is considered "trendy" and commercially viable music today or within the last 20-30 years. Also you have to define "album" as something to be listened to straight through, as opposed to something like "Thriller" which may or may not be cherry picked tunes.
I think there's only one of these types of albums every 20 years, give or take, since WWII. I considered all genres, took into account quality, commercial success, impact on the music world, the appeal among different groups of people, the context of the era it was created in, and it's continued appeal long after its original release date. I narrowed it down to these 4 albums.
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue (1959)
Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon (1973)
Metallica - The Black Album (1991)
Daft Punk - Random Access Memories (2013)
Sad to say, the Daft Punk pick was the easiest one to decide on because the bar is so low these days in regards to what is both popular AND good music most people can dig. Lots of people don't like Green Day, Radiohead, Eminem (or any hip-hop), Springsteen, Billy Joel, and pop artists are throwaway if we're talking decades and decades here. Kids don't like/know/care about Madonna and Mariah Carey already, and Britney is hanging on by a thread.
That’s the second mention of Daft Punk in this thread. I will confess I never heard them until it was announced they were splitting up (had heard the name but didn’t even know what kind of music it was). I can see how that kind of thing they do might have been a big part of the music world over the last 20 years, but they flew completely under my radar.
I'm sure someone in 1981 thought the same thing about TDSotM.
"Those damn hippies and their drug music. Who knew?"
RAM is one of the only popular releases in the last 15 years I can think of that actually has mass appeal AND was pushing musical boundaries, even with it's slightly retro feel (if you are familiar with some of the funky music from the 70s), plus, everyone likes the singles from this album.
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Well, I look at here as a microcosm; after 1989, there were one or two people that pimped it (I was one; I still think that's a phenomenal record; her "Joshua Tree" maybe) but the general consensus here in this prog metal site (and MP.com, and another site I was at for a while) was "whatevs. She still lips synchs and has 1000 writers for each song.". folklore was the one that sort of also said, "you might not like all of it, but she's really writing these, really singing them, and really means them." This is her "adult" record in a way. Her "Scenes From A Memory". Her "2112". Where she said "my way, or highway, this is who/what I am." And that resonates with people, I think.
Agreed about the adult record. I like plenty of Taylor's previous material, way more than I thought I would when I first got into Folklore and Evermore five months ago, but Folkmore, and by extension Evermore, just comes off as a mature and artistic record, and that will almost age better than something many will see as just a pop record like 1989, which is definitely a damn fine record. Now, the question is, will anything from it hold up as being as iconic as Love Story or Shake It Off? That is the question, because to be a classic record, you almost have to have at least one or two songs that hold up to the public as being classics. Cardigan has nearly 100 million views now on YT, but will it hold up as one of her major classics? Time will tell.
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I hope at least some Taylor fans who have enjoyed her recent two album will take a little time to go and check out The National's (Dessner's band) output, because to me they have been one of the consistantly brilliant bands of this millenium - The four album run of 'Alligator', 'Boxer', 'High Violet**' and 'Trouble Will Find You' is just plain stellar.
**One of my top 5 albums of all time.
I've not heard 1989 besides the singles - and unfortunately two of them are really annoying for me in 'Blank Space' and 'Bad Blood'.
The National are definitely on my "bands to check out" list now. :hat :hat
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Also you have to define "album" as something to be listened to straight through, as opposed to something like "Thriller" which may or may not be cherry picked tunes.
What?
It does feel like an odd comment, considering 7 of the 9 songs were top 10 singles here in the States (!!!), but it could certainly be argued that some of the songs have not aged well. I have zero use for Human Nature or The Girl Is Mine anymore, but that's me, and in the grand scheme of things, what I or anyone else thinks about this song or that song on Thriller is irrelevant. I always tells people, if you did not experience the force of nature that was Thriller in real time, it is impossible to truly grasp its impact.
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I think once you go below "masterpiece that cannot be denied by anyone if you like any type of music" everything else is subjective to taste or submission to what is considered "trendy" and commercially viable music today or within the last 20-30 years. Also you have to define "album" as something to be listened to straight through, as opposed to something like "Thriller" which may or may not be cherry picked tunes.
I think there's only one of these types of albums every 20 years, give or take, since WWII. I considered all genres, took into account quality, commercial success, impact on the music world, the appeal among different groups of people, the context of the era it was created in, and it's continued appeal long after its original release date. I narrowed it down to these 4 albums.
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue (1959)
Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon (1973)
Metallica - The Black Album (1991)
Daft Punk - Random Access Memories (2013)
Sad to say, the Daft Punk pick was the easiest one to decide on because the bar is so low these days in regards to what is both popular AND good music most people can dig. Lots of people don't like Green Day, Radiohead, Eminem (or any hip-hop), Springsteen, Billy Joel, and pop artists are throwaway if we're talking decades and decades here. Kids don't like/know/care about Madonna and Mariah Carey already, and Britney is hanging on by a thread.
That’s the second mention of Daft Punk in this thread. I will confess I never heard them until it was announced they were splitting up (had heard the name but didn’t even know what kind of music it was). I can see how that kind of thing they do might have been a big part of the music world over the last 20 years, but they flew completely under my radar.
I'm sure someone in 1981 thought the same thing about TDSotM.
"Those damn hippies and their drug music. Who knew?"
RAM is one of the only popular releases in the last 15 years I can think of that actually has mass appeal AND was pushing musical boundaries, even with it's slightly retro feel (if you are familiar with some of the funky music from the 70s), plus, everyone likes the singles from this album.
I’m not saying they’re bad or anything, I just never heard anything about them until they broke up. Had no idea who or what they were. They do have a certain funky appeal for sure.
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I think once you go below "masterpiece that cannot be denied by anyone if you like any type of music" everything else is subjective to taste or submission to what is considered "trendy" and commercially viable music today or within the last 20-30 years. Also you have to define "album" as something to be listened to straight through, as opposed to something like "Thriller" which may or may not be cherry picked tunes.
I think there's only one of these types of albums every 20 years, give or take, since WWII. I considered all genres, took into account quality, commercial success, impact on the music world, the appeal among different groups of people, the context of the era it was created in, and it's continued appeal long after its original release date. I narrowed it down to these 4 albums.
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue (1959)
Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon (1973)
Metallica - The Black Album (1991)
Daft Punk - Random Access Memories (2013)
Sad to say, the Daft Punk pick was the easiest one to decide on because the bar is so low these days in regards to what is both popular AND good music most people can dig. Lots of people don't like Green Day, Radiohead, Eminem (or any hip-hop), Springsteen, Billy Joel, and pop artists are throwaway if we're talking decades and decades here. Kids don't like/know/care about Madonna and Mariah Carey already, and Britney is hanging on by a thread.
That’s the second mention of Daft Punk in this thread. I will confess I never heard them until it was announced they were splitting up (had heard the name but didn’t even know what kind of music it was). I can see how that kind of thing they do might have been a big part of the music world over the last 20 years, but they flew completely under my radar.
I'm sure someone in 1981 thought the same thing about TDSotM.
"Those damn hippies and their drug music. Who knew?"
RAM is one of the only popular releases in the last 15 years I can think of that actually has mass appeal AND was pushing musical boundaries, even with it's slightly retro feel (if you are familiar with some of the funky music from the 70s), plus, everyone likes the singles from this album.
I’m not saying they’re bad or anything, I just never heard anything about them until they broke up. Had no idea who or what they were. They do have a certain funky appeal for sure.
You never heard their older hits from the late 90s and early 00s?
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I think once you go below "masterpiece that cannot be denied by anyone if you like any type of music" everything else is subjective to taste or submission to what is considered "trendy" and commercially viable music today or within the last 20-30 years. Also you have to define "album" as something to be listened to straight through, as opposed to something like "Thriller" which may or may not be cherry picked tunes.
I think there's only one of these types of albums every 20 years, give or take, since WWII. I considered all genres, took into account quality, commercial success, impact on the music world, the appeal among different groups of people, the context of the era it was created in, and it's continued appeal long after its original release date. I narrowed it down to these 4 albums.
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue (1959)
Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon (1973)
Metallica - The Black Album (1991)
Daft Punk - Random Access Memories (2013)
Sad to say, the Daft Punk pick was the easiest one to decide on because the bar is so low these days in regards to what is both popular AND good music most people can dig. Lots of people don't like Green Day, Radiohead, Eminem (or any hip-hop), Springsteen, Billy Joel, and pop artists are throwaway if we're talking decades and decades here. Kids don't like/know/care about Madonna and Mariah Carey already, and Britney is hanging on by a thread.
That’s the second mention of Daft Punk in this thread. I will confess I never heard them until it was announced they were splitting up (had heard the name but didn’t even know what kind of music it was). I can see how that kind of thing they do might have been a big part of the music world over the last 20 years, but they flew completely under my radar.
I'm sure someone in 1981 thought the same thing about TDSotM.
"Those damn hippies and their drug music. Who knew?"
RAM is one of the only popular releases in the last 15 years I can think of that actually has mass appeal AND was pushing musical boundaries, even with it's slightly retro feel (if you are familiar with some of the funky music from the 70s), plus, everyone likes the singles from this album.
I’m not saying they’re bad or anything, I just never heard anything about them until they broke up. Had no idea who or what they were. They do have a certain funky appeal for sure.
You never heard their older hits from the late 90s and early 00s?
Nope. At least I don’t think I did. What were some of the more popular ones?
Edit: just looked up Around the World and I definitely heard that somewhere but didn’t know what it was.
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I mean there's bound to be a time where you hear that song, "One More Time," somewhere in the background. You may not know the song name or the band at the time, but the tune has a sense of familiarity to it. I didn't know it was Daft Punk that created that tune until they came back with the run they had with their Random Access Memories album.
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I mean there's bound to be a time where you hear that song, "One More Time," somewhere in the background. You may not know the song name or the band at the time, but the tune has a sense of familiarity to it. I didn't know it was Daft Punk that created that tune until they came back with the run they had with their Random Access Memories album.
Just checked, and One More Time also sounds like something I’ve heard before for sure. Like I said, I’m not so much surprised to find out that their music was popular or a big thing in certain circles, I just wasn’t aware of who they were.
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Their biggest hits before RAM came out were Around The World, and One More Time, at least in the U.S.
but I've heard other singles of theirs over the years like Aerodynamic, Voyager, and Da Funk.
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for those who've never seen this, a rolling clip by week going back to the 50's of Billboard #1-3 Songs. When you get to the 2000's especially, there's a lot of NO-NAMES to the mass public.
https://pudding.cool/2017/03/music-history/index.html
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for those who've never seen this, a rolling clip by week going back to the 50's of Billboard #1-3 Songs. When you get to the 2000's especially, there's a lot of NO-NAMES to the mass public.
https://pudding.cool/2017/03/music-history/index.html
Thank you I never saw that and its pretty cool for sure
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I mean there's bound to be a time where you hear that song, "One More Time," somewhere in the background. You may not know the song name or the band at the time, but the tune has a sense of familiarity to it. I didn't know it was Daft Punk that created that tune until they came back with the run they had with their Random Access Memories album.
Isn't that The Captain and Tenille?
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I mean there's bound to be a time where you hear that song, "One More Time," somewhere in the background. You may not know the song name or the band at the time, but the tune has a sense of familiarity to it. I didn't know it was Daft Punk that created that tune until they came back with the run they had with their Random Access Memories album.
Isn't that The Captain and Tenille?
I was thinking about this song?
Daft Punk - One More Time (Official Video) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGBhQbmPwH8)
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Digging the new GYBE too.
That’s my pick.
I third this. I understand that I'm in the minority in being so hyped for it (which I suppose brings into question whether the subject is based on """objective""" quality, which I don't want to delve into), but imo it's one for the ages
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I haven’t read every single post from all three pages, but if someone hasn’t mentioned Hybrid Theory by Linkin Park it would be a shame.
If we are talking about albums that transcended their genre to the point that even people who didn’t like the genre seemed to love “that album”, I think LP’s debut qualifies. I think almost all the rest of the material that they have put out is fairly “meh”, but there is something special about Hybrid Theory.
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There's lots of great albums being released all the time. But there hasn't been a truly great album since Rush's Moving Pictures...
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I haven’t read every single post from all three pages, but if someone hasn’t mentioned Hybrid Theory by Linkin Park it would be a shame.
If we are talking about albums that transcended their genre to the point that even people who didn’t like the genre seemed to love “that album”, I think LP’s debut qualifies.
I don't. I literally haven't heard anyone talk about this in years.
It doesn't seem transcendent or timeless to me; on the contrary, it seems very much of its time.
However, it's cool that it has apparently had that big an impact on you.
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I haven’t read every single post from all three pages, but if someone hasn’t mentioned Hybrid Theory by Linkin Park it would be a shame.
If we are talking about albums that transcended their genre to the point that even people who didn’t like the genre seemed to love “that album”, I think LP’s debut qualifies. I think almost all the rest of the material that they have put out is fairly “meh”, but there is something special about Hybrid Theory.
It was my first album ever and arguably responsible for making me love music. I think it's a classic but on a personal level I rank the albums differently depending on the mood. Part of me feels Meteora is slightly better (but not as classic) but there's also been times where I think The Hunting Party or A Thousand Suns could make the claim for the top spot as well.
Hybrid Theory is a good shout though. No matter how you feel about it, I feel it is a classic and it's one of those albums a lot of people have heard and know.
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There's lots of great albums being released all the time. But there hasn't been a truly great album since Rush's Moving Pictures...
Well, I would argue that Pearl Jam's Ten is that album. Even if you don't buy into the Nirvana hype, the grunge movement changed music as much - I would argue MORE, since the music actually had lasting merit - as the punk movement. "Ten" is probably the best overall example of that, and outsold Nevermind (13M to 10M) even if it's not the most popular in terms of perception.
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I haven’t read every single post from all three pages, but if someone hasn’t mentioned Hybrid Theory by Linkin Park it would be a shame.
If we are talking about albums that transcended their genre to the point that even people who didn’t like the genre seemed to love “that album”, I think LP’s debut qualifies.
I don't. I literally haven't heard anyone talk about this in years.
It doesn't seem transcendent or timeless to me; on the contrary, it seems very much of its time.
However, it's cool that it has apparently had that big an impact on you.
I don’t even really care for that type of music at all, but that album was just “better” somehow, and I think the sales reflect the fact that far more people bought that album than just “nu metal fans”. It had pop sensibilities that seemed to appeal to other people that wouldn’t normally listen to that type of music.
When I saw that idea being introduced in this thread, this was the first modern album I thought of.
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I haven’t read every single post from all three pages, but if someone hasn’t mentioned Hybrid Theory by Linkin Park it would be a shame.
If we are talking about albums that transcended their genre to the point that even people who didn’t like the genre seemed to love “that album”, I think LP’s debut qualifies.
I don't. I literally haven't heard anyone talk about this in years.
It doesn't seem transcendent or timeless to me; on the contrary, it seems very much of its time.
However, it's cool that it has apparently had that big an impact on you.
I don’t even really care for that type of music at all, but that album was just “better” somehow, and I think the sales reflect the fact that far more people bought that album than just “nu metal fans”. It had pop sensibilities that seemed to appeal to other people that wouldn’t normally listen to that type of music.
When I saw that idea being introduced in this thread, this was the first modern album I thought of.
I agree that Hybrid Theory was amazing
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The thing about Hybrid Theory was that the three big hits that defined Linkin Park (Crawling, One Step Closer, and In the End) were not just the only good-great songs from the album. I enjoyed Papercut, Points of Authority, and Forgotten. Runaway seemed to be a known track as well.
That stated, for me, if I was in a karaoke bar with co-workers that only listens to casual mainstream stuff in the background, I would think the two songs I would sing would be either Green Day's Boulevard of Broken Dreams or Linkin Park's In the End and I think it would have a good reaction.
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The thing about Hybrid Theory was that the three big hits that defined Linkin Park (Crawling, One Step Closer, and In the End) were not just the only good-great songs from the album. I enjoyed Papercut, Points of Authority, and Forgotten. Runaway seemed to be a known track as well.
That stated, for me, if I was in a karaoke bar with co-workers that only listens to casual mainstream stuff in the background, I would think the two songs I would sing would be either Green Day's Boulevard of Broken Dreams or Linkin Park's In the End and I think it would have a good reaction.
I feel like in general those hits, or maybe Crawling and In the End are considered among the weaker songs on that album. Papercut is my jam.
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Haha, I just listened to "In The End" and "One Step Closer" and I was like "Oh, THAT'S the song!" I don't recall "Crawling", though.
That was a huge album. Chester is a really good singer. I dig "With You" a LOT. That's a great song with a GREAT vocal, IMO (I don't know if Chester does all the vocals or if Mike Shinoda is doing the clean parts).
(Though, FOR ME, my tastes only, "In The End" has a lot of the things I don't like about that genre of metal. I love the choruses, I love the melodies, but the rhythmic "rap-like" singing in the verses (ITE) and as the response in the chorus (OSC) is off-putting to me.)
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I haven’t thought about Linkin Park in years (I guess when Chester died I probably did). Definitely not a style of music I was ever into and very much feels like something that belongs in the time when it was made.
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I’ll add my two cents
Foo Fighters - Wasting Light: the last big “rock” album that actually meant a damn on the billboard charts
Avenged Sevenfold - Nightmare: the last big “popular” metal album
Skid Row - Slave to the Grind: the last dying breath of hair metal
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Hybrid Theory the sound of a bratty spoilt teenager being angry at nothing in particular, barely anything else to it other than empty angst.
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Hybrid Theory the sound of a bratty spoilt teenager being angry at nothing in particular, barely anything else to it other than empty angst.
Well, that's something to put into perspective given Chester Bennington's passing via suicide in 2017. Especially, when there were notions that he had some rough mental health issues which stemmed from a rough childhood, etc.
Was that album something that stemmed from teenage angst? Most likely. Is it empty? I don't think that it is. Is it empty if a lot of people can relate to those songs?
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If we're talking Linkin Park then that Puddle of Mudd album with "She Hates Me", "Blurry", and "Control" belongs in this discussion. I think their songs got played more than LP songs.
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That can be quite an argument, but comparing Come Clean (which sold around 5 million copies worldwide, 3 million in the US alone) to Hybrid Theory (which sold 27 million copies worldwide, 10 million in the US alone) is not that quite a fair fight. Also, I would garner that a lot more people would know In The End by itself (even if they don't know the band name or song name) than Blurry (which I like as well as Control).
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That can be quite an argument, but comparing Come Clean (which sold around 5 million copies worldwide, 3 million in the US alone)) to Hybrid Theory (which sold 27 million copies worldwide, 10 million in the US alone) is not that quite a fair fight. Also, I would garner that a lot more people would know In The End (even if they don't know the band name or song name) than Blurry (which I like as well as Control).
I don't think either album belongs in this thread.
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Well, then no Rock albums post-2000 belongs in this thread if we can't give a nod to Hybrid Theory (I'm not even a huge Linkin Park fan, but that album made a lot of waves).
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Well, then no Rock albums post-2000 belongs in this thread if we can't give a nod to Hybrid Theory (I'm not even a huge Linkin Park fan, but that album made a lot of waves).
Fine by me. Grunge took rock music off life support 30 years ago.
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Remember that I introduced this album because we were talking about albums that transcended their genre. Albums that touched a far wider range of people then would normally be interested in that type of music.
From that premise, Hybrid Theory qualifies...Puddle of Mudd does not. They might sound the same to some people, but obviously, one of these albums resonated with a vastly greater cross section of the populace than anything else from that genre or time period. The other did not.
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Remember that I introduced this album because we were talking about albums that transcended their genre. Albums that touched a far wider range of people then would normally be interested in that type of music.
From that premise, Hybrid Theory qualifies...Puddle of Mudd does not. They might sound the same to some people, but obviously, one of these albums resonated with a vastly greater cross section of the populace than anything else from that genre or time period. The other did not.
I was in High School when these albums came out. Puddle of Mudd was definitely popular with the rock crowd. However, Hybrid Theory was huge. The jocks loved it, the cheerleaders loved it, the nerds loved it and of course the stoners and the goths. The late 90s-early 2000s is my era. Anyone I know, my age, knows and loves those songs. That is a defining album of that time period. Above most from that period.
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My wife is 9 years older than me (literally a baby boomer) and she has trouble thinking of ANYTHING past the 90s. But she says she’s positive she knows who Linkin Park is, and even knows their hits.
But that just underlines how far reaching that album was.
I’m not even a LP “fan” per se. and I haven’t even listened to that album at all in at least 5 years. Heck, I’m not even sure I own an actual copy...I think I have a CDR rip somewhere. But I still here those songs everywhere. I hear In the End on the overhead when I’m grocery shopping. So I’m making an argument for this album based strictly on those definitions.
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I didn't bring up PoM because they sounded the same, they don't. I was just talking about albums from that time period that were insanely popular at the time. However, no one gives af about those albums these days on a general level. At least people still enjoy SOAD's Toxicity 20 years later, but many people do not like or listen to the kind of metal found on that album (as opposed to The Black Album. Anecdotal, but I know plenty of people who don't listen to metal but will listen to that album or other Metallica albums.)
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I didn't bring up PoM because they sounded the same, they don't. I was just talking about albums from that time period that were insanely popular at the time. However, no one gives af about those albums these days on a general level. At least people still enjoy SOAD's Toxicity 20 years later, but many people do not like or listen to the kind of metal found on that album (as opposed to The Black Album. Anecdotal, but I know plenty of people who don't listen to metal but will listen to that album or other Metallica albums.)
I know we’re beating a dead horse here...but I just don’t understand how you’re making this Puddle of Mudd/Linkin Park comparison. I think everyone is talking about a general music fan level, not talking about purely “metal” fans. But...
Come Clean sold about 3 million records in the U.S. and reached #9 on the charts.
Hybrid Theory sold 10.5 million records in the U.S. and reached #2 on the charts.
As far as how popular they are now, the best way I see to make a judgement is Spotify.
Puddle of Mudd gets around 3.5 million monthly listeners.
Linkin Park gets around 21 million monthly listeners.
Obviously they were both popular. But POM is nowhere in the same ballpark as LP. You make LIKE them more. But I don’t think that’s the point here.
Also... System of a Down gets half the monthly listeners as Linkin Park. So, I don’t know where you’re getting your info. Unless it’s just you and your friends.
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I think 1 way to gauge it is if you asked your mother or grandmother, do they know their name? if they do, the point may be valid. Or say, you ask 100 people on the street randomly the same question.
So Puddle of Mudd or Linkin Park actually, does your grandmother know their name?
How many people out of 100 that you randomly asked on the street would know their names?
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I think 1 way to gauge it is if you asked your mother or grandmother, do they know their name? if they do, the point may be valid. Or say, you ask 100 people on the street randomly the same question.
So Puddle of Mudd or Linkin Park actually, does your grandmother know their name?
How many people out of 100 that you randomly asked on the street would know their names?
System of a Down is definitely more popular with grandmothers.
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The problem with that, too, is why do older people matter more as far as having to know someone?
Think if this way: ask 100 people under 30 who Beyonce, Justin Beiber or Taylor Swift are, and most or all will have at least heard of them. Then ask the same people if they know who Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton or The Who, and you will probably get a lot of blank stares.
This is why I no longer think Stairway to Heaven is the most popular rock song ever, like it was considered for many years. The opinions of younger folks, like it or not, are a factor here when talking about widespread appeal and popularity, and I feel that songs like Bohemian Rhapsody and Don't Stop Believin' have both surpassed it as far as popularity across all ages go. My niece (who is 14) and nephew (who is 16) both know both of those songs, and I am pretty sure they have no clue who Led Zeppelin is or what Stairway to Heaven is.
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The problem with that, too, is why do older people matter more as far as having to know someone?
Think if this way: ask 100 people under 30 who Beyonce, Justin Beiber or Taylor Swift are, and most or all will have at least heard of them. Then ask the same people if they know who Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton or The Who, and you will probably get a lot of blank stares.
This is why I no longer think Stairway to Heaven is the most popular rock song ever, like it was considered for many years. The opinions of younger folks, like it or not, are a factor here when talking about widespread appeal and popularity, and I feel that songs like Bohemian Rhapsody and Don't Stop Believin' have both surpassed it as far as popularity across all ages go. My niece (who is 14) and nephew (who is 16) both know both of those songs, and I am pretty sure they have no clue who Led Zeppelin is or what Stairway to Heaven is.
Agreed.
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Not that a single person is proof of anything, but I remember randomly quizzing a coworker (32 years) who's not into rock...
"Tell me a Led Zeppelin song"
"Stairway to Heaven"
"Tell me a Deep Purple song"
*he didn't know the name but he hummed the Smoke on the Water riff*
"Tell me a Black Sabbath song"
He didn't know any.
But I agree with you, probably Bohemian Rhapsody right now is the most popular song, surpassing Stairway to Heaven.
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What’s funny about Don’t Stop Believing is I only recently learned it’s resurgence in popularity was due to The Sopranos (which I’ve never seen). I guess being a Journey fan and hearing it on the radio all the time growing up I never thought it ever really went out of style. But I did think it was odd when the DJ at my brother’s wedding played it as the last song of the night and everyone went nuts. This was like 7-8 years back, and I remember thinking “these people don’t like Journey!” Which I know was true about the people my age and younger who were there at least.
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What’s funny about Don’t Stop Believing is I only recently learned it’s resurgence in popularity was due to The Sopranos (which I’ve never seen). I guess being a Journey fan and hearing it on the radio all the time growing up I never thought it ever really went out of style. But I did think it was odd when the DJ at my brother’s wedding played it as the last song of the night and everyone went nuts. This was like 7-8 years back, and I remember thinking “these people don’t like Journey!” Which I know was true about the people my age and younger who were there at least.
The TV series “Glee” also had a lot to do with it.
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Whether you like them or not, I would consider Linkin Park to be one of those generational bands in terms of popularity and exposure. Hybrid Theory like others have pointed out sold a shit ton. It doesn't mean it's better than other similar albums of that time but it is a good indication of how big they were.
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Age group only matters when we’re going outside of genre. That’s the whole point of this. How much did an album of a certain genre reach people outside the genre.
That’s why we were talking about AC/DC back in black. Even in the 90s, I could go to my sisters best friends house and look through her old record collection:
Disco
Disco
Disco
Barry Manilow
Neil Diamond
Disco
Frampton Comes Alive
Disco
Seals and Crofts
OH LOOK - AC/DC BACK IN BLACK
The hard rock album that even people who hate hard rock loved.
Since the few days ago that I introduced this album as a nominee, I have started asking around and I run into the same experience. I’ve run into a lot of people who know who Linkin Park is and know at least a couple of their songs. And *everybody* knows In the End, but all the rest of those bands have been left behind. No one knows who they are except the fans of those bands in that genre.
The only argument I’m making is that that album transcended the genre and reached a lot more people. Like back in black did.
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I want to add that the only reason that we dismiss the younger crowd is not because they just happen to be into something different, but it’s because we are talking about “the last great album“ and the younger generation doesn’t buy albums.
There are several articles out there right now talking about how with the loss of the record companies controlling the media, we’ve now lost a “collective experience“ with taking in our entertainment whatever form it might take.
I don’t think that that’s necessarily a “good thing“ or “bad thing“... there are pros and cons to both ends of it. having the record companies control everything had a lot of cons, but one of the pros was that everybody was having an experience they could all share. Everyone in your group was watching the same TV shows, listened to much of the same albums, etc. etc.
I hope you guys are getting my point. Because right now I’m not typing things out I’m just dictating a train of thought musing as I’m thinking out loud and using talk to text
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How many people out of 100 that you randomly asked on the street would know their names?
Family Feud: DTF Edition :lol
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I didn't bring up PoM because they sounded the same, they don't. I was just talking about albums from that time period that were insanely popular at the time. However, no one gives af about those albums these days on a general level. At least people still enjoy SOAD's Toxicity 20 years later, but many people do not like or listen to the kind of metal found on that album (as opposed to The Black Album. Anecdotal, but I know plenty of people who don't listen to metal but will listen to that album or other Metallica albums.)
I know we’re beating a dead horse here...but I just don’t understand how you’re making this Puddle of Mudd/Linkin Park comparison. I think everyone is talking about a general music fan level, not talking about purely “metal” fans. But...
Come Clean sold about 3 million records in the U.S. and reached #9 on the charts.
Hybrid Theory sold 10.5 million records in the U.S. and reached #2 on the charts.
As far as how popular they are now, the best way I see to make a judgement is Spotify.
Puddle of Mudd gets around 3.5 million monthly listeners.
Linkin Park gets around 21 million monthly listeners.
Obviously they were both popular. But POM is nowhere in the same ballpark as LP. You make LIKE them more. But I don’t think that’s the point here.
Also... System of a Down gets half the monthly listeners as Linkin Park. So, I don’t know where you’re getting your info. Unless it’s just you and your friends.
Shows what I know about these type of bands and how popular they are on streaming services.
I don't like POM or LP, and I used to listen to SOAD long time ago. I just remember POM were everywhere in the early 00s, and so were Linkin Park, and neither band had any followup success to those 2 albums from my perspective. I don't know if I said it already in this thread, but these bands shouldn't even be in the discussion for this thread.
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You did....you just didn't really give any reason why beyond anecdotal and myopic personal experience.
I really don't care at all for Adele, or 21...but it obviously resonated with a HUGE amount of people across all walks of life. While it's true that I personally wouldn't give a rat's patootie if the album ceased to exist, I still think it absolutely SHOULD be in the discussion because you don't sell 12 million US and 31 million worldwide...during a time of declining album sales...unless you've achieved something that has deeply touched a lot of people. And I'm not turning a blind eye to the idea that something I don't care for, or don't get could possibly be an incredible musical and artistic achievement that simply doesn't resonate with me personally.
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Shows what I know about these type of bands and how popular they are on streaming services.
I don't like POM or LP, and I used to listen to SOAD long time ago. I just remember POM were everywhere in the early 00s, and so were Linkin Park, and neither band had any followup success to those 2 albums from my perspective. I don't know if I said it already in this thread, but these bands shouldn't even be in the discussion for this thread.
Whistles.... That's quite a perspective. For Puddle of Mudd, yeah, they haven't gotten much success after Come Clean, but your take about Linkin Park is far off, because Meteora was a solid 2nd album for them. There are four songs on that album that still gets regular play on rock radio. Faint, Somewhere I Belong, Breaking the Habit, and Numb. Numb may be their 2nd most well-known song after In the End. After that, they still have solid success and exposure. I know a few of their post-Meteora songs were on those Michael Bay-produced Transformers movies.
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The problem with that, too, is why do older people matter more as far as having to know someone?
Think if this way: ask 100 people under 30 who Beyonce, Justin Beiber or Taylor Swift are, and most or all will have at least heard of them. Then ask the same people if they know who Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton or The Who, and you will probably get a lot of blank stares.
This is why I no longer think Stairway to Heaven is the most popular rock song ever, like it was considered for many years. The opinions of younger folks, like it or not, are a factor here when talking about widespread appeal and popularity, and I feel that songs like Bohemian Rhapsody and Don't Stop Believin' have both surpassed it as far as popularity across all ages go. My niece (who is 14) and nephew (who is 16) both know both of those songs, and I am pretty sure they have no clue who Led Zeppelin is or what Stairway to Heaven is.
For sure. Bohemian Rhapsody is the new Rhapsody in Blue, but like RIB, it will be less known among young people as time goes on. It will be like RIB or Beethoven's 5th Symphony, where most people will be able to identify one small part but not know the whole piece or even the name of it. Most kids don't even know who Zeppelin is, but they might have heard of Greta Van Fleet. Forget Hendrix, Cream, ELP, etc... The Beatles are the only rock band most teens will have heard of by the time they're 18 or 20, but almost none would be able to name you or sing you a song of theirs. Rock music, which includes metal, is becoming that music that 'sounds old' like Frank Sinatra and smokey jazz from 80-100 years ago. Newer rock music is not "what everyone else is listening to", which is rap, club music, or [insert pop singer] and a lot of this rock stuff is all over commercials, movies, etc.. Kids aren't listening to some song they heard in a car commercial. Rock was just the pop music the olds were complaining about yesteryear, and now things have come full circle. Sure, some rock got more artsy, progressive perhaps, but overall thousands of rock songs will be long forgotten, and besides the Fab Four, and some of the early rock innovators, assuming the music will even be available to the public in the future, only a few true pioneers will still be extensively studied for centuries to come, I'm thinking guys like Frank Zappa, Miles Davis, even James Brown, dudes who were transcending rock music and other music of their time, who appeal to a wide range of music listeners, young and old, who only come around once in 100 years.
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Shows what I know about these type of bands and how popular they are on streaming services.
I don't like POM or LP, and I used to listen to SOAD long time ago. I just remember POM were everywhere in the early 00s, and so were Linkin Park, and neither band had any followup success to those 2 albums from my perspective. I don't know if I said it already in this thread, but these bands shouldn't even be in the discussion for this thread.
Whistles.... That's quite a perspective. For Puddle of Mudd, yeah, they haven't gotten much success after Come Clean, but your take about Linkin Park is far off, because Meteora was a solid 2nd album for them. There are four songs on that album that still gets regular play on rock radio. Faint, Somewhere I Belong, Breaking the Habit, and Numb. Numb may be their 2nd most well-known song after In the End. After that, they still have solid success and exposure. I know a few of their post-Meteora songs were on those Michael Bay-produced Transformers movies.
I remember when that album came out, it seemed like most people had already checked out with LP and moved on to other music. Could be my age group.
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Shows what I know about these type of bands and how popular they are on streaming services.
I don't like POM or LP, and I used to listen to SOAD long time ago. I just remember POM were everywhere in the early 00s, and so were Linkin Park, and neither band had any followup success to those 2 albums from my perspective. I don't know if I said it already in this thread, but these bands shouldn't even be in the discussion for this thread.
Whistles.... That's quite a perspective. For Puddle of Mudd, yeah, they haven't gotten much success after Come Clean, but your take about Linkin Park is far off, because Meteora was a solid 2nd album for them. There are four songs on that album that still gets regular play on rock radio. Faint, Somewhere I Belong, Breaking the Habit, and Numb. Numb may be their 2nd most well-known song after In the End. After that, they still have solid success and exposure. I know a few of their post-Meteora songs were on those Michael Bay-produced Transformers movies.
I remember when that album came out, it seemed like most people had already checked out with LP and moved on to other music. Could be my age group.
Could be that your source pool is three people. Maybe.
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Shows what I know about these type of bands and how popular they are on streaming services.
I don't like POM or LP, and I used to listen to SOAD long time ago. I just remember POM were everywhere in the early 00s, and so were Linkin Park, and neither band had any followup success to those 2 albums from my perspective. I don't know if I said it already in this thread, but these bands shouldn't even be in the discussion for this thread.
Whistles.... That's quite a perspective. For Puddle of Mudd, yeah, they haven't gotten much success after Come Clean, but your take about Linkin Park is far off, because Meteora was a solid 2nd album for them. There are four songs on that album that still gets regular play on rock radio. Faint, Somewhere I Belong, Breaking the Habit, and Numb. Numb may be their 2nd most well-known song after In the End. After that, they still have solid success and exposure. I know a few of their post-Meteora songs were on those Michael Bay-produced Transformers movies.
I remember when that album came out, it seemed like most people had already checked out with LP and moved on to other music. Could be my age group.
Could be that your source pool is three people. Maybe.
DING!
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This thread is starting to confuse popularity/sales with greatness.
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This thread is starting to confuse popularity/sales with greatness.
Oh boy, now we’re getting somewhere. What is ‘greatness’ then?
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This thread is starting to confuse popularity/sales with greatness.
Based on the replies of earlier people in the thread, I think people are interpreting OP's question as "what was the latest album which (1) was widely popular, (2) was widely enjoyed among the people who did know it, & (3) had a wider appeal beyond just fans of the genre" - the latter two criteria imo separate this thread from a generic popularity contest, but I can see how you'd perceive it that way.
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This thread is starting to confuse popularity/sales with greatness.
Based on the replies of earlier people in the thread, I think people are interpreting OP's question as "what was the latest album which (1) was widely popular, (2) was widely enjoyed among the people who did know it, & (3) had a wider appeal beyond just fans of the genre" - the latter two criteria imo separate this thread from a generic popularity contest, but I can see how you'd perceive it that way.
Option 3 is what I assumed this meant going into it. Like...”Thriller” or “The Black Album”. Massive sellers that appeal to fans inside and out of the given genre of music the album is in.
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This thread is starting to confuse popularity/sales with greatness.
Oh boy, now we’re getting somewhere. What is ‘greatness’ then?
I said this on page one.
For that you have to have...
Huge commercial success.
Huge critical success.
A couple of huge singles that will likely still be being played years later.
An album that is accessable to as many people as possible, including music snobs.
A unique sound that others copied.
A story behind it.
So I'm going for Amy Winehouse - Back to Black.
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You did indeed, and I also commented that I thought that was a really good pick.
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The problem with that, too, is why do older people matter more as far as having to know someone?
Think if this way: ask 100 people under 30 who Beyonce, Justin Beiber or Taylor Swift are, and most or all will have at least heard of them. Then ask the same people if they know who Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton or The Who, and you will probably get a lot of blank stares.
This is why I no longer think Stairway to Heaven is the most popular rock song ever, like it was considered for many years. The opinions of younger folks, like it or not, are a factor here when talking about widespread appeal and popularity, and I feel that songs like Bohemian Rhapsody and Don't Stop Believin' have both surpassed it as far as popularity across all ages go. My niece (who is 14) and nephew (who is 16) both know both of those songs, and I am pretty sure they have no clue who Led Zeppelin is or what Stairway to Heaven is.
Granted, my data set IS a pool of three - my daughter and two of her friends - but I'm going to respectfully, gently push back on this. My kid - and the rest of the data set - DO know Stairway. We joked about it when she went to her first dance and they played it as the last song. Get that: the song that they traditionally played at my middle school/high school dance (1979- 1985) is STILL being played, in the 2010's, as the last song at school dances. Contrast that with the thread here, where i posted a week or so ago, talking about "trying new music" and the general consensus was "I don't have time, there's too much music now, I'm going to stick with the tried and true."
They do, too, know BoRhap and DSB, but I think that just means they are all of a group.
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Someone in the thread mentioned that mainstream music used to have a separate "second rung" of alt artists who would still get successful and as someone who was the prime targeted demographic, I can't tell you *exactly* how it all went pre-internet because I'm assuming things were big in America never made it all the way across, but it is true. After hearing Avril and Linkin Park and Eminem, it was rare that people didn't make a stop between in metal before moving on to other genres of alternative music or going back to mainstream listening habits, but absolutely no metal band made it to the "your mom knows it" alt music podium in the 2000's or later except for Linkin Park. The very last time I remember alt music being relevant before this second rung fell out - I'm guessing it might be coming back with Billie Eilish - and the last album I'm going to nominate for the last great album with some cultural appeal and influence that wasn't a major pop album, is Arctic Monkeys' AM in 2013.
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The problem with that, too, is why do older people matter more as far as having to know someone?
Think if this way: ask 100 people under 30 who Beyonce, Justin Beiber or Taylor Swift are, and most or all will have at least heard of them. Then ask the same people if they know who Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton or The Who, and you will probably get a lot of blank stares.
This is why I no longer think Stairway to Heaven is the most popular rock song ever, like it was considered for many years. The opinions of younger folks, like it or not, are a factor here when talking about widespread appeal and popularity, and I feel that songs like Bohemian Rhapsody and Don't Stop Believin' have both surpassed it as far as popularity across all ages go. My niece (who is 14) and nephew (who is 16) both know both of those songs, and I am pretty sure they have no clue who Led Zeppelin is or what Stairway to Heaven is.
Granted, my data set IS a pool of three - my daughter and two of her friends - but I'm going to respectfully, gently push back on this. My kid - and the rest of the data set - DO know Stairway. We joked about it when she went to her first dance and they played it as the last song. Get that: the song that they traditionally played at my middle school/high school dance (1979- 1985) is STILL being played, in the 2010's, as the last song at school dances. Contrast that with the thread here, where i posted a week or so ago, talking about "trying new music" and the general consensus was "I don't have time, there's too much music now, I'm going to stick with the tried and true."
They do, too, know BoRhap and DSB, but I think that just means they are all of a group.
My youngest (18 yo) of course loves a lot of modern music that I don't know (although she has introduced me to a lot), but is definitely a fan of older music like Queen, Journey, Zeppelin, Bowie, and one of her favorite bands is actually ELO. She even has a soft spot in her heart for 70s/80s country lol.
Lots of kids her age definitely are aware of and love older music.