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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: WildRanger on April 06, 2021, 01:25:23 PM
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Let's see who's gonna win here.
My choice is BS, by a lot.
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can we not?
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I prefer the first two Ozzy albums, but I understand that the first two Sabbath albums had a far greater impact.
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can we not?
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can we not?
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I think I prefer the Ozzy albums for their superior production values, but those two Sabbath albums practically invented the genre.
I'm gonna give it to Black Sabbath because when they made those albums they were doing something relatively fresh and new on the hard rock/metal scene whereas the Ozzy albums, while sonically superior don't really break any new ground at all.
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I voted Ozzy, but that's primarily on the strength of Diary. I love the first eight Sabbath records, and I have a real affinity for the the first record, but they're overshadowed (for me) by Vol. 4, SBS and Sabotage. So, because I know there's better coming down the pike, and Ozzy peaked out on Diary, I'm sticking with Oz.
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I voted Ozzy, but that's primarily on the strength of Diary. I love the first eight Sabbath records, and I have a real affinity for the the first record, but they're overshadowed (for me) by Vol. 4, SBS and Sabotage. So, because I know there's better coming down the pike, and Ozzy peaked out on Diary, I'm sticking with Oz.
What do you think of "No More Tears" ?
I think it's pretty close in quality to Blizzard and Diary. Not quite as good, but pretty close.
"The Ultimate Sin" is pretty killer [of giants] :P too
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I voted Ozzy, but that's primarily on the strength of Diary. I love the first eight Sabbath records, and I have a real affinity for the the first record, but they're overshadowed (for me) by Vol. 4, SBS and Sabotage. So, because I know there's better coming down the pike, and Ozzy peaked out on Diary, I'm sticking with Oz.
What do you think of "No More Tears" ?
I think it's pretty close in quality to Blizzard and Diary. Not quite as good, but pretty close.
"The Ultimate Sin" is pretty killer [of giants] :P too
No More Tears is probably my second favorite Ozzy record. I love it. But it's a matter of "when"; I got into Diary when I was in high school and it was all new. I got NMT when I moved to California after college and it was different. But it's still one of the Ozzy records I listen to the most.
As for TUS (and BATM): very good, but not in the same league as Blizzard, Diary, or NMT.
Diary of a Madman (1981)
Blizzard of Ozz (1980)
No More Tears (1991)
Bark at the Moon (1983)
The Ultimate Sin (1986)
No Rest for the Wicked (1988)
Down to Earth (2001)
Ozzmosis (1995)
Black Rain (2007)
Scream (2010)
Never listened to Ordinary Man (2020) and have little desire to.
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I haven't listened to anything he released after NMT that did anything for me and Ordinary Man is, frankly, garbage
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Never been an original Sabbath fan so easy decision. Ozzy.
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Hmmm...
Black Sabbath
The Wizard
NIB
War Pigs
Paranoid
Iron Man
Fairies Wear Boots
versus
Crazy Train
Suicide Solution
Mr. Crowley
Revelation (Mother Earth)
Steal Away (The Night)
Over the Mountain
Flying High Again
You Can't Kill Rock and Roll
Believer
SATO
Diary of a Madman
I can take or leave (mostly leave) the rest of the songs on those four albums.
Even if I give Sabbath a bump for historical significance, the weight of the Ozzy solo material makes this a pretty easy call.
can we not?
Well...you know...what fun would that be? If you don't want to play, just ignore the thread.
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I'm taking the Ozzy albums easily.
This matchup doesn't really make sense though. It would've been better to put Blizzard and Diary up against H&H and Mob Rules.
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Ozzy and I don’t even like Blizzard all that much. Diary is just that strong imo
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Sabbath. Not just for their historical importance, but because every single song on both the first two albums are really good, if not classics and some of the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre. Tony Iommi was doing things no one other than Robert Fripp thought of doing with a guitar for another 10-20 years.
What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?
I'd still rather hear the song Paranoid 1000 times more than I already have, than have to listen to "Aaaalll abooardd hahahaha" ever again.
It also sounds like Ozzy is competing with Dio-era BS on those first two albums, because Sabbath kicked the tempos up a notch and got an incredible singer.
Randy Rhodes is overrated, sorry.
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Ozzy. I just listened to those two albums a bunch last week (and have been listening to a lot of Sabbath this week) and am still blown away at how amazing Randy Rhoads was and how fantastic those songs are.
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The Sabbath duo, easily. Both are great from start to finish, while Blizzard is kinda inconsistent (some awesome songs, some meh ones). Diary of a Madman is neck and neck with No More Tears for being my favorite Ozzy record, but the consistency and awesomeness of those two Sabbath records made this one I didn't even have to think about.
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I voted Ozzy, but that's primarily on the strength of Diary. I love the first eight Sabbath records, and I have a real affinity for the the first record, but they're overshadowed (for me) by Vol. 4, SBS and Sabotage. So, because I know there's better coming down the pike, and Ozzy peaked out on Diary, I'm sticking with Oz.
Bingo. Ozzy's first two are his best, and Sabbath's, while good, aren't theirs. Moreover, Blizzard/Diary still get regular listens. The first Sabbath albums not nearly as regularly.
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I never listen to the first two Sabbath albums.
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What do you think of "No More Tears" ?
The only Ozzy album I like very much.
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Paranoid is a top ten album for me and I still voted for Ozzy. That’s how good those 2 albums are.
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I'm taking the Ozzy albums easily.
This matchup doesn't really make sense though. It would've been better to put Blizzard and Diary up against H&H and Mob Rules.
I seem to recall that being asked a while ago:
Heaven And Hell >>> Blizzard Of Ozz
Mob Rules <<< Diary Of A Madman
1. Diary Of A Madman
2. Heaven And Hell
3a. Mob Rules
3b. Blizzard Of Ozz
Both Mob Rules and Blizzard have some great songs - TSOTSC; Revelations; Over And Over; Crazy Train - and some not so great - Voodoo, Suicide Solution; Country Girl; No Bone Movies - and the obligatory interlude - E5150; Dee. They are a wash; but I slightly - SLIGHTLY - prefer Diary, so Ozzy gets the nod.
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Sabbath. Not just for their historical importance, but because every single song on both the first two albums are really good, if not classics and some of the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre. Tony Iommi was doing things no one other than Robert Fripp thought of doing with a guitar for another 10-20 years.
What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?
I'd still rather hear the song Paranoid 1000 times more than I already have, than have to listen to "Aaaalll abooardd hahahaha" ever again.
It also sounds like Ozzy is competing with Dio-era BS on those first two albums, because Sabbath kicked the tempos up a notch and got an incredible singer.
Randy Rhodes is overrated, sorry.
I disagree with a lot of this. Like what you like, but....
"[E]very single song on both the first two albums are really good, if not classics and some of the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre." No. Behind the Wall of Sleep? Evil Woman? Warning? Planet Caravan? Hand of Doom? Rat Salad? None of those are anywhere near "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre" (even if you removed the word "rock," they still wouldn't be among "the most well known songs."
"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?" You're kidding, right? If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile. And, beyond Crazy Train, you have Suicide Solution, Mr. Crowley, Flying High Again and Diary of a Madman. Among metal fans, those songs are classics (as are many of the Sabbath songs, but acting like Crazy Train the only Ozzy song worth considering is...well...crazy).
"It also sounds like Ozzy is competing with Dio-era BS on those first two albums." I'm not sure what this means, but Blizzard was fully recorded before H&H was released, and Diary was fully recorded before Mob Rules was released (and Diary was only released a few days after Mob). Are you suggesting that, when Randy Rhoads and Bob Daisley were working on the music for Diary, Ozzy urged them to make it sound like Heaven and Hell?
"Randy Rhodes is overrated." I don't disagree with that, but it's neither here nor there in this comparison. It's entirely possible for Rhoads to be overrated and Blizzard and Diary to be excellent albums.
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I'm taking the Ozzy albums easily.
This matchup doesn't really make sense though. It would've been better to put Blizzard and Diary up against H&H and Mob Rules.
I seem to recall that being asked a while ago:
Heaven And Hell >>> Blizzard Of Ozz
Mob Rules <<< Diary Of A Madman
1. Diary Of A Madman
2. Heaven And Hell
3a. Mob Rules
3b. Blizzard Of Ozz
Both Mob Rules and Blizzard have some great songs - TSOTSC; Revelations; Over And Over; Crazy Train - and some not so great - Voodoo, Suicide Solution; Country Girl; No Bone Movies - and the obligatory interlude - E5150; Dee. They are a wash; but I slightly - SLIGHTLY - prefer Diary, so Ozzy gets the nod.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Blizzard/Diary v. H&H/Mob was a thread not that long ago.
I think my rankings are about the same as yours, except I don't rank Diary quite as strong as you do (the difference probably being the song Tonight), and I rank Mob much higher than Blizzard (I think Voodoo and Country Girl are both at least really good songs and think Over and Over is the weak link on the album).
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"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?" You're kidding, right? If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile.
You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".
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"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?" You're kidding, right? If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile.
You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".
When's the last time you went to a football game and "Paranoid" broke out? There's not a week goes by that you don't hear at some point that "ssssssssss... I...I...I..." of the intro to Crazy Train. Name all the relief pitchers in Major League Baseball that walk in to "Crazy Train", and then list all those that walk in to either "Paranoid" or "Iron Man". "Iron Man" is close, I grant you that, but they are not on the same level.
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I own the first two Ozzy solo albums (and a few others). The only Ozzy-era Sabbath I own is The End and I also have a copy of We Sold Our Souls To Rock n Roll on it. That makes my choice obvious, I do believe. Now that I am looking at my CD wall, I have every Black Sabbath album not featuring Ozzy...
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"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?" You're kidding, right? If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile.
You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".
When's the last time you went to a football game and "Paranoid" broke out? There's not a week goes by that you don't hear at some point that "ssssssssss... I...I...I..." of the intro to Crazy Train. Name all the relief pitchers in Major League Baseball that walk in to "Crazy Train", and then list all those that walk in to either "Paranoid" or "Iron Man". "Iron Man" is close, I grant you that, but they are not on the same level.
When I hear Iron Man come on, I think back immediately to the pre-WWF days of The Road Warriors, as it was their entrance music. Ahhh, the memories...
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"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?" You're kidding, right? If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile.
You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".
No, I'm NOT wrong, and it's getting awfully tiresome to read your comments like this, which presuppose that your opinions are irrefutable and universal facts.
"Not any more popular" among which group of people? What evidence do you have of their comparative popularity? Of course, you could have rightly asked me the same question. Had you done that, my answer would have been more or less what Stadler wrote: Crazy Train is well-known and enjoyed by folks who are not fans in general of Ozzy Osbourne or hard rock/heavy metal. The song is ubiquitous at sporting events, and it turns up with some regularity in television commercials. Among fans of metal/hard rock, the three songs might be on relatively even footing, but Crazy Train is the only one of the three songs that transcends to the general population.
On top of that, Crazy Train, as a single, is certified 4x Platinum by the RIAA. Notably, it was certified Gold in the mid-2000s and certified 2x Platinum in 2009 and 4x Platinum in 2020. If anything, it's gaining popularity. It's also notable that Blizzard of Ozz, the album on which Crazy Train appears, is certified as 5x Platinum. A lot of that was a result of folks re-buying the album on new media, but the 5x certification occurred in early 2019. Do you suppose that's happening on the strength of I Don't Know and No Bone Movies?
Now let's look at RIAA certifications for Paranoid and Iron Man. Paranoid, the ablum, went Gold in 1971 and was certified 3x Platinum in 1986. It went 4x Platinum in 1995 (26 years ago) and that's it. How about the songs? Neither Paranoid nor Iron Man has even been certified Gold (and yes, both songs were released as singles).
So...your move. What objective evidence do you have of your assertion that "Crazy Train is not any more popular than 'Paranoid' and 'Iron Man'."
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I own the first two Ozzy solo albums (and a few others). The only Ozzy-era Sabbath I own is The End and I also have a copy of We Sold Our Souls To Rock n Roll on it. That makes my choice obvious, I do believe. Now that I am looking at my CD wall, I have every Black Sabbath album not featuring Ozzy...
Honest question: have you heard all the Ozzy Sabbath stuff? It's worth a quick tour to listen to Vol.4 through Never Say Die; they are sorely under-represented by WSOSTRnR - three songs from Vol. 4 (and not the best ones), one from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and one - by FAR my least favorite - from Sabotage. None from Technical Ecstacy (which I actually LOVE), and none from Never Say Die. I think the run from Vol. 4 through Never Say Die is as good a five album run as you'll find. Not everyone is going to agree with me on that, but I'm sticking to it. I like the proggier Sabbath over the sludgier Sabbath.
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Ozzy
"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?" You're kidding, right? If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile.
You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".
No, I'm NOT wrong, and it's getting awfully tiresome to read your comments like this, which presuppose that your opinions are irrefutable and universal facts.
"Not any more popular" among which group of people? What evidence do you have of their comparative popularity? Of course, you could have rightly asked me the same question. Had you done that, my answer would have been more or less what Stadler wrote: Crazy Train is well-known and enjoyed by folks who are not fans in general of Ozzy Osbourne or hard rock/heavy metal. The song is ubiquitous at sporting events, and it turns up with some regularity in television commercials. Among fans of metal/hard rock, the three songs might be on relatively even footing, but Crazy Train is the only one of the three songs that transcends to the general population.
On top of that, Crazy Train, as a single, is certified 4x Platinum by the RIAA. Notably, it was certified Gold in the mid-2000s and certified 2x Platinum in 2009 and 4x Platinum in 2020. If anything, it's gaining popularity. It's also notable that Blizzard of Ozz, the album on which Crazy Train appears, is certified as 5x Platinum. A lot of that was a result of folks re-buying the album on new media, but the 5x certification occurred in early 2019. Do you suppose that's happening on the strength of I Don't Know and No Bone Movies?
Now let's look at RIAA certifications for Paranoid and Iron Man. Paranoid, the ablum, went Gold in 1971 and was certified 3x Platinum in 1986. It went 4x Platinum in 1995 (26 years ago) and that's it. How about the songs? Neither Paranoid nor Iron Man has even been certified Gold (and yes, both songs were released as singles).
So...your move. What objective evidence do you have of your assertion that "Crazy Train is not any more popular than 'Paranoid' and 'Iron Man'."
You must have way too much time on your hands if you're writing paragraphs in your defense against someone like WildRanger. :lol :rollin :lol
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"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?" You're kidding, right? If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile.
You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".
lol
I've literally never heard Paranoid on the radio. I've certainly heard Iron Man a lot, but I've heard Crazy Train on the radio eleventy million times. It's easily the most popular song we are talking about here.
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I ended up voting Sabbath. My heart lies more heavily with that band.
With the radio discussion, the mainstream rock radio over here plays Paranoid but I've never heard Crazy Train.
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What do you think of "No More Tears" ?
The only Ozzy album I like very much.
It's the only one I still listen to once in a while. To this day I still think Zakk Wylde is the best guitarist that Ozzy ever worked with. Randy Rhoads became famous because he died young in a plane crash. He was a great guitar player, but the mythology that surrounds him to this day is rather overblown. I admit, though, that I would love to have seen him mature as he aged. For a 25-year-old kid he was definitely way above average and full of potential.
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I ended up voting Sabbath. My heart lies more heavily with that band.
With the radio discussion, the mainstream rock radio over here plays Paranoid but I've never heard Crazy Train.
:o Wow! That fucking song is massively overplayed here in the states.
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I ended up voting Sabbath. My heart lies more heavily with that band.
With the radio discussion, the mainstream rock radio over here plays Paranoid but I've never heard Crazy Train.
:o Wow! That fucking song is massively overplayed here in the states.
I haven't listened consistently to the radio for a long time but growing up and even before discovering Sabbath I knew Paranoid from hearing it on rock radio. Things may be different now but I don't recall hearing Crazy Train on the radio over here. That's a minority in this argument however and means nothing in the scope of it.
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I ended up voting Sabbath. My heart lies more heavily with that band.
With the radio discussion, the mainstream rock radio over here plays Paranoid but I've never heard Crazy Train.
:o Wow! That fucking song is massively overplayed here in the states.
That's just us poor bastards in Australia. I don't think I have ever heard an Ozzy solo song on mainstream radio period . We just don't have a genuine mainstream hard rock/metal station (where I am anyway).
Ozzy easy for me too btw.
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I ended up voting Sabbath. My heart lies more heavily with that band.
With the radio discussion, the mainstream rock radio over here plays Paranoid but I've never heard Crazy Train.
:o Wow! That fucking song is massively overplayed here in the states.
That's just us poor bastards in Australia. I don't think I have ever heard an Ozzy solo song on mainstream radio period as we don't have a genuine mainstream hard rock/metal station.
Yeah, that would definitely help. :lol
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For a 25-year-old kid he was definitely way above average and full of potential.
Duane Allman >> Randy Rhoads
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I've literally never heard Paranoid on the radio. I've certainly heard Iron Man a lot, but I've heard Crazy Train on the radio eleventy million times. It's easily the most popular song we are talking about here.
Easily the most popular song, but ONLY in America, not in Europe (or Australia or South America).
In Europe "Paranoid" is the biggest hit song by Black Sabbath, their most well-known song and definitely much bigger hit than "Crazy Train". And I'm very surprised if you've never heard Paranoid on the radio because I supposed, as a short tune, it was a huge rock hit in the US too.
Ozzy solo was commercially much more successful in America than Europe.
I expect there are non-American members on this board who can confirm this.
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"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?" You're kidding, right? If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile.
You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".
No, I'm NOT wrong, and it's getting awfully tiresome to read your comments like this, which presuppose that your opinions are irrefutable and universal facts.
"Not any more popular" among which group of people? What evidence do you have of their comparative popularity? Of course, you could have rightly asked me the same question. Had you done that, my answer would have been more or less what Stadler wrote: Crazy Train is well-known and enjoyed by folks who are not fans in general of Ozzy Osbourne or hard rock/heavy metal. The song is ubiquitous at sporting events, and it turns up with some regularity in television commercials. Among fans of metal/hard rock, the three songs might be on relatively even footing, but Crazy Train is the only one of the three songs that transcends to the general population.
On top of that, Crazy Train, as a single, is certified 4x Platinum by the RIAA. Notably, it was certified Gold in the mid-2000s and certified 2x Platinum in 2009 and 4x Platinum in 2020. If anything, it's gaining popularity. It's also notable that Blizzard of Ozz, the album on which Crazy Train appears, is certified as 5x Platinum. A lot of that was a result of folks re-buying the album on new media, but the 5x certification occurred in early 2019. Do you suppose that's happening on the strength of I Don't Know and No Bone Movies?
Now let's look at RIAA certifications for Paranoid and Iron Man. Paranoid, the ablum, went Gold in 1971 and was certified 3x Platinum in 1986. It went 4x Platinum in 1995 (26 years ago) and that's it. How about the songs? Neither Paranoid nor Iron Man has even been certified Gold (and yes, both songs were released as singles).
So...your move. What objective evidence do you have of your assertion that "Crazy Train is not any more popular than 'Paranoid' and 'Iron Man'."
As I see you only used RIAA, American big sport events and American TV commercials as an indicator for popularity. Do you realize that in Europe (or Australia or South America) "Paranoid" could be a much more popular song than "Crazy Train"? Do you realize there is no "Crazy Train" at European football/soccer or basketball matches and in European TV commercials? USA is definitely not the whole world when it comes to popularity in music.
Ozzy solo was commercially very big in the USA, but not outside.
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In Europe to begin with there's not much rock music at sporting events or commercials to begin with.
Most random comment in favor of Crazy Train: Once I was in holiday at a sea location, and in the streets of the historical centre there was a band playing instrumental music with sax and arranging the songs to suite their style. One of the songs played was Crazy Train. So, totally random occourence, but see - Crazy Train is famous enough to be played to entertain tourists at the sea.
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I've literally never heard Paranoid on the radio. I've certainly heard Iron Man a lot, but I've heard Crazy Train on the radio eleventy million times. It's easily the most popular song we are talking about here.
Easily the most popular song, but ONLY in America, not in Europe (or Australia or South America).
In Europe "Paranoid" is the biggest hit song by Black Sabbath, their most well-known song and definitely much bigger hit than "Crazy Train". And I'm very surprised if you've never heard Paranoid on the radio because I supposed, as a short tune, it was a huge rock hit in the US too.
Ozzy solo was commercially much more successful in America than Europe.
I expect there are non-American members on this board who can confirm this.
Are you upset that I am posting from an American perspective, when you had no problem posting from a European perspective?
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What do you think of "No More Tears" ?
The only Ozzy album I like very much.
It's the only one I still listen to once in a while. To this day I still think Zakk Wylde is the best guitarist that Ozzy ever worked with. Randy Rhoads became famous because he died young in a plane crash. He was a great guitar player, but the mythology that surrounds him to this day is rather overblown. I admit, though, that I would love to have seen him mature as he aged. For a 25-year-old kid he was definitely way above average and full of potential.
I don't know about "best", but I do know that if I had my choice of Ozzy lineups, I'd take Zakk in there in a heartbeat. I think he "gets" the Ozzy ethos the best. He doesn't complain, he plays the Sabbath and Randy stuff honestly, with enough reverence but without overdoing it, and he nails his own material (which is underrrated, IMO). It's not a top favorite, but if Ozzy didn't sound like a sniveling man-baby on that record, No Rest For The Wicked would be a great record. (I can't really articulate it, but somewhere along the line he developed this nasally sniveling affectation to some of his singing; you can hear it on the chorus to Crazy Babies (one of my least favorite Ozzy songs ever). It's also in Miracle Man. I have to step out to run an errand; I'll listen to No Rest and find a hard example.
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"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?" You're kidding, right? If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile.
You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".
No, I'm NOT wrong, and it's getting awfully tiresome to read your comments like this, which presuppose that your opinions are irrefutable and universal facts.
"Not any more popular" among which group of people? What evidence do you have of their comparative popularity? Of course, you could have rightly asked me the same question. Had you done that, my answer would have been more or less what Stadler wrote: Crazy Train is well-known and enjoyed by folks who are not fans in general of Ozzy Osbourne or hard rock/heavy metal. The song is ubiquitous at sporting events, and it turns up with some regularity in television commercials. Among fans of metal/hard rock, the three songs might be on relatively even footing, but Crazy Train is the only one of the three songs that transcends to the general population.
On top of that, Crazy Train, as a single, is certified 4x Platinum by the RIAA. Notably, it was certified Gold in the mid-2000s and certified 2x Platinum in 2009 and 4x Platinum in 2020. If anything, it's gaining popularity. It's also notable that Blizzard of Ozz, the album on which Crazy Train appears, is certified as 5x Platinum. A lot of that was a result of folks re-buying the album on new media, but the 5x certification occurred in early 2019. Do you suppose that's happening on the strength of I Don't Know and No Bone Movies?
Now let's look at RIAA certifications for Paranoid and Iron Man. Paranoid, the ablum, went Gold in 1971 and was certified 3x Platinum in 1986. It went 4x Platinum in 1995 (26 years ago) and that's it. How about the songs? Neither Paranoid nor Iron Man has even been certified Gold (and yes, both songs were released as singles).
So...your move. What objective evidence do you have of your assertion that "Crazy Train is not any more popular than 'Paranoid' and 'Iron Man'."
As I see you only used RIAA, American big sport events and American TV commercials as an indicator for popularity. Do you realize that in Europe (or Australia or South America) "Paranoid" could be a much more popular song than "Crazy Train"? Do you realize there is no "Crazy Train" at European football/soccer or basketball matches and in European TV commercials? USA is definitely not the whole world when it comes to popularity in music.
Ozzy solo was commercially very big in the USA, but not outside.
What Hef said.
You can't have it both ways. The globe is BOTH Europe AND America (plus...). If it's invalid to take this only from an American perspective, then you're just as wrong for taking it from a European perspective.
Or, what Hef said.
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I've literally never heard Paranoid on the radio. I've certainly heard Iron Man a lot, but I've heard Crazy Train on the radio eleventy million times. It's easily the most popular song we are talking about here.
Easily the most popular song, but ONLY in America, not in Europe (or Australia or South America).
In Europe "Paranoid" is the biggest hit song by Black Sabbath, their most well-known song and definitely much bigger hit than "Crazy Train". And I'm very surprised if you've never heard Paranoid on the radio because I supposed, as a short tune, it was a huge rock hit in the US too.
Ozzy solo was commercially much more successful in America than Europe.
I expect there are non-American members on this board who can confirm this.
Are you upset that I am posting from an American perspective, when you had no problem posting from a European perspective?
I'm not upset. You said "Crazy Train is easily the most popular song we are talking about here" and I said your statement is only partially true because it only applies to one (big) country, but not other territories around the globe. America is not the whole world.
For example, you can say Garth Brooks is one of the best selling music artists but you have to add IN THE USA, because he is definitely not one of the best selling music artists worldwide since the rest of the world doesn't even know who Garth Brooks is.
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I've literally never heard Paranoid on the radio. I've certainly heard Iron Man a lot, but I've heard Crazy Train on the radio eleventy million times. It's easily the most popular song we are talking about here.
Easily the most popular song, but ONLY in America, not in Europe (or Australia or South America).
In Europe "Paranoid" is the biggest hit song by Black Sabbath, their most well-known song and definitely much bigger hit than "Crazy Train". And I'm very surprised if you've never heard Paranoid on the radio because I supposed, as a short tune, it was a huge rock hit in the US too.
Ozzy solo was commercially much more successful in America than Europe.
I expect there are non-American members on this board who can confirm this.
Are you upset that I am posting from an American perspective, when you had no problem posting from a European perspective?
I'm not upset. You said "Crazy Train is easily the most popular song we are talking about here" and I said your statement is only partially true because it only applies to one (big) country, but not other territories around the globe. America is not the whole world.
For example, you can say Garth Brooks is one of the best selling music artists but you have to add IN THE USA, because he is definitely not one of the best selling music artists worldwide since the rest of the world doesn't even know who Garth Brooks is.
But I only said that in the first place because you wrote
You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".
You didn't qualify it by saying "in Europe".
BTW, the U.S. is a HUGE chunk of worldwide record sales. Garth is estimated to have sold over 180 million albums worldwide. He's not quite in the rarified air of Elvis or the Beatles, but he is DEFINITELY one of the best selling music artists worldwide, not just in the US. FYI, he has scored Gold albums in Canada, Australia, the UK, and Norway.
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I've literally never heard Paranoid on the radio. I've certainly heard Iron Man a lot, but I've heard Crazy Train on the radio eleventy million times. It's easily the most popular song we are talking about here.
Easily the most popular song, but ONLY in America, not in Europe (or Australia or South America).
In Europe "Paranoid" is the biggest hit song by Black Sabbath, their most well-known song and definitely much bigger hit than "Crazy Train". And I'm very surprised if you've never heard Paranoid on the radio because I supposed, as a short tune, it was a huge rock hit in the US too.
Ozzy solo was commercially much more successful in America than Europe.
I expect there are non-American members on this board who can confirm this.
Are you upset that I am posting from an American perspective, when you had no problem posting from a European perspective?
I'm not upset. You said "Crazy Train is easily the most popular song we are talking about here" and I said your statement is only partially true because it only applies to one (big) country, but not other territories around the globe. America is not the whole world.
For example, you can say Garth Brooks is one of the best selling music artists but you have to add IN THE USA, because he is definitely not one of the best selling music artists worldwide since the rest of the world doesn't even know who Garth Brooks is.
But I only said that in the first place because you wrote
You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".
You didn't qualify it by saying "in Europe".
BTW, the U.S. is a HUGE chunk of worldwide record sales. Garth is estimated to have sold over 180 million albums worldwide. He's not quite in the rarified air of Elvis or the Beatles, but he is DEFINITELY one of the best selling music artists worldwide, not just in the US. FYI, he has scored Gold albums in Canada, Australia, the UK, and Norway.
He's actually pretty big in the UK and Ireland, a market that's not sweet on (American) country music to begin with.
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I own the first two Ozzy solo albums (and a few others). The only Ozzy-era Sabbath I own is The End and I also have a copy of We Sold Our Souls To Rock n Roll on it. That makes my choice obvious, I do believe. Now that I am looking at my CD wall, I have every Black Sabbath album not featuring Ozzy...
Honest question: have you heard all the Ozzy Sabbath stuff? It's worth a quick tour to listen to Vol.4 through Never Say Die; they are sorely under-represented by WSOSTRnR - three songs from Vol. 4 (and not the best ones), one from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and one - by FAR my least favorite - from Sabotage. None from Technical Ecstacy (which I actually LOVE), and none from Never Say Die. I think the run from Vol. 4 through Never Say Die is as good a five album run as you'll find. Not everyone is going to agree with me on that, but I'm sticking to it. I like the proggier Sabbath over the sludgier Sabbath.
Honest answer: listening every so often to We Sold Our Souls... has never really given me any motivation to do a deep dive into the Ozzy-era Sabbath catalog. Other than that compilation and The End, which was a gift, I don't think I have ever actually listened to an original studio album from Ozzy's time with the band. Maybe I should...
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As I see you only used RIAA, American big sport events and American TV commercials as an indicator for popularity. Do you realize that in Europe (or Australia or South America) "Paranoid" could be a much more popular song than "Crazy Train"? Do you realize there is no "Crazy Train" at European football/soccer or basketball matches and in European TV commercials? USA is definitely not the whole world when it comes to popularity in music.
Ozzy solo was commercially very big in the USA, but not outside.
You are wrong.
J/K, but you might want to think twice before leading with a dumbass statement like that. Of course I realize all that stuff. Had you written, "I think here in Europe, it's a very different situation than in the U.S.," I wouldn't have responded as I did (or responded at all).
ALSO, it's worth pointing out that while I obviously only gave you RIAA date for U.S. sales, you gave NO data from anywhere, and you have relatively little, if any, credibility here. The way you have conducted yourself here is such that folks are not simply going to accept you as an authority about all things relative to music in Europe.
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I own the first two Ozzy solo albums (and a few others). The only Ozzy-era Sabbath I own is The End and I also have a copy of We Sold Our Souls To Rock n Roll on it. That makes my choice obvious, I do believe. Now that I am looking at my CD wall, I have every Black Sabbath album not featuring Ozzy...
Honest question: have you heard all the Ozzy Sabbath stuff? It's worth a quick tour to listen to Vol.4 through Never Say Die; they are sorely under-represented by WSOSTRnR - three songs from Vol. 4 (and not the best ones), one from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and one - by FAR my least favorite - from Sabotage. None from Technical Ecstacy (which I actually LOVE), and none from Never Say Die. I think the run from Vol. 4 through Never Say Die is as good a five album run as you'll find. Not everyone is going to agree with me on that, but I'm sticking to it. I like the proggier Sabbath over the sludgier Sabbath.
Honest answer: listening every so often to We Sold Our Souls... has never really given me any motivation to do a deep dive into the Ozzy-era Sabbath catalog. Other than that compilation and The End, which was a gift, I don't think I have ever actually listened to an original studio album from Ozzy's time with the band. Maybe I should...
I'm not really one to try to "sell" someone on music if they don't like it, but while WSOS is a good compilation for the hits, it's not complete. You could do a lot worse than give "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" or "Sabotage" a turn. Don't expect free jazz, or country, but there is a little more to the band than "Black Sabbath" (a song I don't really like, to be honest) or "Sweat Leaf".
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Shadow Walker, I second Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage. I can understand not totally connecting with OZZY Era Sabbath, but give these albums a listen.
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I own the first two Ozzy solo albums (and a few others). The only Ozzy-era Sabbath I own is The End and I also have a copy of We Sold Our Souls To Rock n Roll on it. That makes my choice obvious, I do believe. Now that I am looking at my CD wall, I have every Black Sabbath album not featuring Ozzy...
Honest question: have you heard all the Ozzy Sabbath stuff? It's worth a quick tour to listen to Vol.4 through Never Say Die; they are sorely under-represented by WSOSTRnR - three songs from Vol. 4 (and not the best ones), one from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and one - by FAR my least favorite - from Sabotage. None from Technical Ecstacy (which I actually LOVE), and none from Never Say Die. I think the run from Vol. 4 through Never Say Die is as good a five album run as you'll find. Not everyone is going to agree with me on that, but I'm sticking to it. I like the proggier Sabbath over the sludgier Sabbath.
Yeah, seconded. There are some songs I don't care for on SBS and Sabotage, but they both contain some of their best music and are easily their best albums of the Ozzy era. The five song stretch to end Sabotage is just magnificent.
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WSOS has four songs from Vol. 4 (Tomorrow's Dream, Changes, Laguna Sunrise and Snowblind -- granted, LS is just acoustic guitar and keys). I'd replace TD with Supernaut
I think my feelings are closer to those of ShadowWalker. I've never found much to grab onto on SBS than the title track. It's one of those albums that has one song that's so very, very good and bunch of "meh" stuff. Sabotage is about the same, although a bit more interesting to me. Ozzy's vocals on Hole in the Sky are very "yelly," but it's a good tune, as is Symptom (which is one of the most glaring omissions on WSOS), but the rest has never grabbed me.
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No argument here, just a slow work day and an interesting topic, so...
Vol. 4:
FX/Supernaut
Wheels Of Confusion/The Straightener ("Try your hardest you'll still be a loser; the world will still be turning when you're gone.")
Tomorrow's Dream
Under The Sun/Every Day Comes And Goes
St. Vitus' Dance
Laguna Sunrise
Cornucopia
Changes
Snowblind
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath:
Spiral Architect (might be my favorite Sabbath song ever)
Looking For Today
Killing Yourself To Live
A National Acrobat
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
Fluff
Sabbara Cadabra
Who Are You?
Sabotage:
Thrill Of It All
Megalomania
The Writ
Hole In The Sky
Don't Start (Too Late)/Symptom Of The Universe
Supertzar
Am I Going Insane (Radio)
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I've literally never heard Paranoid on the radio. I've certainly heard Iron Man a lot, but I've heard Crazy Train on the radio eleventy million times. It's easily the most popular song we are talking about here.
Easily the most popular song, but ONLY in America, not in Europe (or Australia or South America).
In Europe "Paranoid" is the biggest hit song by Black Sabbath, their most well-known song and definitely much bigger hit than "Crazy Train". And I'm very surprised if you've never heard Paranoid on the radio because I supposed, as a short tune, it was a huge rock hit in the US too.
Ozzy solo was commercially much more successful in America than Europe.
I expect there are non-American members on this board who can confirm this.
Are you upset that I am posting from an American perspective, when you had no problem posting from a European perspective?
I'm not upset. You said "Crazy Train is easily the most popular song we are talking about here" and I said your statement is only partially true because it only applies to one (big) country, but not other territories around the globe. America is not the whole world.
For example, you can say Garth Brooks is one of the best selling music artists but you have to add IN THE USA, because he is definitely not one of the best selling music artists worldwide since the rest of the world doesn't even know who Garth Brooks is.
But I only said that in the first place because you wrote
You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".
You didn't qualify it by saying "in Europe".
BTW, the U.S. is a HUGE chunk of worldwide record sales. Garth is estimated to have sold over 180 million albums worldwide. He's not quite in the rarified air of Elvis or the Beatles, but he is DEFINITELY one of the best selling music artists worldwide, not just in the US. FYI, he has scored Gold albums in Canada, Australia, the UK, and Norway.
He's actually pretty big in the UK and Ireland, a market that's not sweet on (American) country music to begin with.
True. I have a DVD around here somewhere of a sold-out show he did in Ireland at a stadium.
When he made his comeback several years ago, his inaugural tour stop was going to again be a big stadium in Ireland, but it got derailed by local politics.
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For a 25-year-old kid he was definitely way above average and full of potential.
Duane Allman >> Randy Rhoads
um, OK? :\
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I own the first two Ozzy solo albums (and a few others). The only Ozzy-era Sabbath I own is The End and I also have a copy of We Sold Our Souls To Rock n Roll on it. That makes my choice obvious, I do believe. Now that I am looking at my CD wall, I have every Black Sabbath album not featuring Ozzy...
Honest question: have you heard all the Ozzy Sabbath stuff? It's worth a quick tour to listen to Vol.4 through Never Say Die; they are sorely under-represented by WSOSTRnR - three songs from Vol. 4 (and not the best ones), one from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and one - by FAR my least favorite - from Sabotage. None from Technical Ecstacy (which I actually LOVE), and none from Never Say Die. I think the run from Vol. 4 through Never Say Die is as good a five album run as you'll find. Not everyone is going to agree with me on that, but I'm sticking to it. I like the proggier Sabbath over the sludgier Sabbath.
Honest answer: listening every so often to We Sold Our Souls... has never really given me any motivation to do a deep dive into the Ozzy-era Sabbath catalog. Other than that compilation and The End, which was a gift, I don't think I have ever actually listened to an original studio album from Ozzy's time with the band. Maybe I should...
Stop what you are doing right now. Go get a copy of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and listen to it from beginning to end a few times. It's incredible. :hat
By the way, while you're listening to this album, consider this: It's 48 years old :eek
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"LIVING JUST FOR DYING, DYING JUST FOR YOU, YEAH!" :metal
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Maybe WildRanger is right (skip ahead to 1:05, though the whole thing is worth watching)....
https://youtu.be/ktYVgKBrhIo
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Maybe WildRanger is right (skip ahead to 1:05, though the whole thing is worth watching)....
https://youtu.be/ktYVgKBrhIo
What the actual fuck is that?!
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Maybe WildRanger is right (skip ahead to 1:05, though the whole thing is worth watching)....
https://youtu.be/ktYVgKBrhIo
What the actual fuck is that?!
Six and a half minutes of AWESOME. Robert Fripp and his wife/life partner/whatevs Toyah Wilcox do a "Sunday Brunch" thing that they've been doing since the COVIDs landed. Each week, for the most part, they cover a popular rock or metal song, and personally I find them FASCINATING. They've done ZZ Top, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, and Guns 'n' Roses to name a few, and they are very entertaining. Helps that I have a sort of thing for Toyah, but still. I always thought of Fripp as this pretentious snoot, but he lays into some of those metal riffs with gusto (and Toyah actually NAILS, in her own way, Bruce's scream in "The Number Of The Beast").
The clip I posted was an "outtakes/compilation" of sorts. The real ones are only about a minute and a half long or so.
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Six and a half minutes of AWESOME.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/b51d684422c7088b69f42416d8131306/tenor.png)
I barely tolerated it to the point where the guy with the guitar started playing Paranoid.
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Six and a half minutes of AWESOME.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/b51d684422c7088b69f42416d8131306/tenor.png)
I barely tolerated it to the point where the guy with the guitar started playing Paranoid.
"Guy with the guitar"? Robert Fripp, from King Crimson. Your mileage may vary, but I consider him one of the more technically competent guitarists active today, and probably the second most glaring omission from the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame (yes, I know that doesn't matter to most people, but it does me, as a sort of canary in the coal mine for the place of a musician in the industry).
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Yeah, Fripp and King Crimson should totally be in the HOF.
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I own the first two Ozzy solo albums (and a few others). The only Ozzy-era Sabbath I own is The End and I also have a copy of We Sold Our Souls To Rock n Roll on it. That makes my choice obvious, I do believe. Now that I am looking at my CD wall, I have every Black Sabbath album not featuring Ozzy...
Honest question: have you heard all the Ozzy Sabbath stuff? It's worth a quick tour to listen to Vol.4 through Never Say Die; they are sorely under-represented by WSOSTRnR - three songs from Vol. 4 (and not the best ones), one from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and one - by FAR my least favorite - from Sabotage. None from Technical Ecstacy (which I actually LOVE), and none from Never Say Die. I think the run from Vol. 4 through Never Say Die is as good a five album run as you'll find. Not everyone is going to agree with me on that, but I'm sticking to it. I like the proggier Sabbath over the sludgier Sabbath.
Honest answer: listening every so often to We Sold Our Souls... has never really given me any motivation to do a deep dive into the Ozzy-era Sabbath catalog. Other than that compilation and The End, which was a gift, I don't think I have ever actually listened to an original studio album from Ozzy's time with the band. Maybe I should...
Stop what you are doing right now. Go get a copy of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and listen to it from beginning to end a few times. It's incredible. :hat
By the way, while you're listening to this album, consider this: It's 48 years old :eek
Age doesn't bother me. I was just listening to The Who - Live At Leeds. A live recording that could be released today and still sound relevant...
I have added SBS and Sabotage to the Amazon cart for my next order (I will do the rounds at my local shops this weekend to see if I can support them with a new or used purchase before falling back on Amazon).
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Yeah, Fripp and King Crimson should totally be in the HOF.
I don't even like King Crimson but I totally agree with this.
Also:
1. drunk me would definitely do Toyah :P
2. But I never touch the stuff because see #1
:lol
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"Guy with the guitar"? Robert Fripp, from King Crimson. Your mileage may vary, but I consider him one of the more technically competent guitarists active today, and probably the second most glaring omission from the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame (yes, I know that doesn't matter to most people, but it does me, as a sort of canary in the coal mine for the place of a musician in the industry).
Gotcha. Not a KC fan, so it's not like I'd recognize him.
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Toyah smokes, but holy shit, those videos blow.